1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,560 I, I mean, I kind of always knew the world was polluted, right? 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:08,160 But I was really, really asleep about the extent of it until I 3 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:11,840 moved my child into, brought our home from the hospital to a 4 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:15,560 neighborhood where a lot of people were getting strange 5 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:18,720 brain and lung cancers. And this information came to me 6 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:20,720 informally. It's not like there is a 7 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:24,040 statistical, it's not like it's published in the New York Times 8 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:25,920 or something. And it's not really widely 9 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:27,200 known. None of them really are. 10 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:30,920 Welcome to the Environmental Transformation Podcast, where we 11 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:33,240 bring you interviews with industry leaders, climate 12 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:36,680 champions, sustainability practitioners, EHS and hazmat 13 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:39,600 professionals making an impact in their businesses today. 14 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:42,920 Each leader solving complex challenges and delivering 15 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:44,960 solutions within their areas of expertise. 16 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:48,400 I'm your host, Sean Grady, and thanks for joining us today. 17 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:52,120 Before we jump in, make sure to follow us on your devices and 18 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:56,600 visit my website at www.shawnkgrady.com and sign up 19 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:59,040 for our newsletter and e-mail announcements. 20 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:01,840 Now let's get started. Welcome to the Environmental 21 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:05,000 Transformation podcast. I'm your host, Sean Grady, and 22 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:08,960 today's guests are Deb Horton and Pete Seda. 23 00:01:09,320 --> 00:01:12,200 Deb is the founder and CEO of Taxi Map and they're an 24 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:15,440 environmental intelligence platform that helps individuals 25 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:18,680 and professionals know which toxicants are present in the 26 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:22,400 area, water and soil near their addresses. 27 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:25,080 Many addresses across the across the United States. 28 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:28,080 So think of it as like the Carfax for environmental 29 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:31,720 surroundings in any location. So we're really happy to have 30 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:34,680 Deb on. She has a PhD in quantitative 31 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:37,600 sociology from Columbia University and has worked as a 32 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:40,240 researcher at Harvard Medical Schools, Department of 33 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:42,920 Healthcare policy. She has also been an 34 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:47,240 organizational and leadership consultant and lived and worked 35 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:50,280 all over the world. Man, she's been in Lima, 36 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:56,040 Istanbul, Milan, London, Dublin. Wow, you've been around. 37 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:58,800 That's awesome. Those are some beautiful. 38 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:00,400 Yeah, that's some beautiful places. 39 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:05,640 Oh, man. Her personal experience moving 40 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:09,440 her baby into two different communities with cancer clusters 41 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:12,960 awakened her to the hidden presence of environmental 42 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:15,600 toxicants in an unexpected locations. 43 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:20,000 And that critically and of critically knowing where 44 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:24,080 toxicants are to make informed decisions for her own and 45 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:27,360 everyone else is in the family and for a business and 46 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:29,120 organizational across the the board. 47 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:35,120 That's what's driven her to develop Toximap Peter Seda. 48 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:39,080 He's the chief environmental scientist at Taxi Map, and he's 49 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:42,680 an instructor at Duke University's School of of the 50 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:45,040 Environment. So he was formerly A contributor 51 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:48,280 to the EP as Enviro Atlas. And he's a seasoned 52 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:51,080 environmental consultant with a deep experience in managing high 53 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:54,280 visibility projects leveraging environmental analysis, 54 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:57,400 geospatial analysis and data management for government 55 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:00,400 agencies, educational institutions and private 56 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:04,520 consulting firms. He is a certified GIS 57 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:10,320 professional and he also has a Geographic Information System 58 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:13,000 Certification Institute accreditation as well. 59 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:16,040 So welcome to the show guys. Great to be here. 60 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:17,440 Yeah. Thank you so much. 61 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:19,880 We're really grateful. Deb, you and I got connected 62 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:22,920 through a personal connection that you're a friends with 63 00:03:22,920 --> 00:03:27,880 another entrepreneur tech startup that we will probably 64 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:31,960 have on the show here soon as well for an application that's 65 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:35,320 really geared towards environmental education for kids 66 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:37,320 and gaming. So I'm looking forward to that 67 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:39,440 one. But it's amazing. 68 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:41,480 Yeah, so. But thanks for coming on the 69 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:43,320 show. And you know, I saw the 70 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:46,480 application and looked at it and I was like, wow, this has a lot 71 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:50,920 of applicability for the environmental field in the 72 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:54,200 environmental consulting space not let alone, I guess, you 73 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:57,280 know, from maybe the medical field as well. 74 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:01,280 But maybe talk a little bit about your origin, you know, the 75 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:04,080 mission that you have. What was the turning point that 76 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:06,480 made you want to start this? I think a little bit has to do 77 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:08,920 with this moving around with your child in the communities. 78 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:11,280 But why don't you share with us a little more on that? 79 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:15,320 Yeah, sure. I, I mean, I kind of always knew 80 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:19,440 the world was polluted, right? But I was really, really asleep 81 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:23,480 about the extent of it until I moved my child into, brought her 82 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:26,680 home from the hospital to a neighborhood where a lot of 83 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:30,240 people were getting strange brain and lung cancers. 84 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:32,760 And this information came to me informally. 85 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:35,440 It's not like there is a statistical, it's not like it's 86 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:37,840 published the New York Times or something. 87 00:04:37,840 --> 00:04:39,440 And it's not really widely known. 88 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:42,080 None of them really are. And so immediately I was like, 89 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:43,880 oh man, I, I got to get out of here. 90 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:46,520 So I moved closer to the actually to the country 91 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:48,480 countryside. I had been in the city. 92 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:53,000 And within three months of that second move, I discovered 93 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:57,080 discovered that I had moved into the middle of a pediatric cancer 94 00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:00,360 cluster. And this is not like, you know, 95 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:03,680 big waste industrial waste site. This is a beautiful part of the 96 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:06,800 seacoast region of the seacoast between Maine and New Hampshire 97 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:11,600 with lobster boating and lots of sailboats and access to the 98 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:15,400 forests and the mountains nearby and beautiful architecture, 99 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:16,960 expensive real estate, great schools. 100 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:20,920 Like it's not with your typical kind of waste site that you 101 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:23,920 would think. And then I read the New 102 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:26,480 Hampshire State report about this cancer cluster and 103 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:30,760 discovered all of the hypotheses about what the causes could be 104 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:34,000 were environmentally related. And through that, I came across 105 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:36,880 all these environmental environmental toxin maps that 106 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:40,760 I've never seen before. And it just profoundly shifted 107 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:43,920 my understanding of the environment in the world. 108 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:47,720 And I immediately moved from there thinking, Oh my God, I got 109 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:50,080 to get out of here. But I had no way of knowing that 110 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:53,960 the place I moved next to is going to be any different than 111 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:57,080 the first two I accidentally moved to because I didn't have 112 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,560 the tool that I've created in order to solve that problem, 113 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:04,040 right? So I began digging in EPA 114 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:10,760 websites and state cancer maps and slowly, slowly. 115 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:13,280 I'm not an environmental scientist like Peter is. 116 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:17,920 And I mean it just took me years to figure out what's going on 117 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:22,440 and I I would spend hours and hours just looking up 1 address 118 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:25,040 and sometimes days and weeks to get the full picture. 119 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:30,800 And because we have the right to the access to this information, 120 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:35,880 I decided to create the tool I needed and what I think every 121 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:40,200 human being needs to know to make smart, informed decisions 122 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:43,640 about their life. And so that is the personal 123 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:46,680 story. But of course, the data set we, 124 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:52,320 Peter has created, he is an absolute environmental toxin 125 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:55,840 data ninja. And he's been, we've, he's 126 00:06:55,840 --> 00:07:00,560 integrated over 60 environmental toxin geospatial data sets into 127 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:06,360 a harmonized layer on our map with we're tracking 1500 128 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:11,440 different environmental toxins. And it has, we have this data 129 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:14,600 asset, right? It's this and then an asset 130 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:17,560 around the interactive map in the tool so that people can 131 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:22,240 easily visualize, understand digest the information as 132 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:24,920 opposed to what I found when I started digging around, you 133 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:29,880 know, state data databases and and EPA because that's like in 134 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:31,880 tables and with, you know, lat logs. 135 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:34,360 And I mean, it was impossible for me to digest. 136 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:39,680 This allows anybody at any level, whether it be complete, 137 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:44,240 you know, newbie like I was to a very sophisticated environmental 138 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:48,080 scientist like Peter or yourself, to digest instantly 139 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:50,560 and utilize in whatever way they need to. 140 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:52,280 Right. Yeah. 141 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:54,720 No, that's great. I mean, and I think there's 142 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:59,160 always been a desire for some, some tool like this available 143 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:02,120 to, to to individuals. I mean, because, you know, 144 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:07,520 you've got the ECHO database for the EPA and it largely has a lot 145 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:11,120 of good stuff in there. But there are some gaps 146 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:15,640 obviously from state to state and industry to, to, you know, 147 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:17,760 even if you look at the military. 148 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:20,120 So there's still, like a lot of, you know, gaps. 149 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:23,480 And so, you know, Peter, how did you get plugged into this 150 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:28,240 opportunity to help Dev? Yeah, great question. 151 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:32,360 And you know to to speak to your thing about the ECHO data set, 152 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:34,080 right, Like that's where we kind of start. 153 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:36,200 We as environmental professionals, that's where we 154 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:38,960 start. But we are like, you know, it's 155 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:40,880 a rabbit hole. It's multiple rabbit holes. 156 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:43,799 You have trouble, you like, oh great, now I see the sites, but 157 00:08:43,799 --> 00:08:46,600 not what's at each site and what's the deal and when and all 158 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:49,440 that stuff. So definitely a tough user 159 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:53,760 interface to for the, the layperson I was. 160 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,840 So I've been out for after getting my masters and doing all 161 00:08:56,840 --> 00:08:58,360 that GIS learning all that stuff. 162 00:08:58,680 --> 00:09:02,760 I've been out consulting for almost 20 years and in the 1st 163 00:09:03,680 --> 00:09:07,440 batch company I worked for supported EPA quite a bit, both 164 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,800 at the national level, state levels, some state governments 165 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:14,160 as well. One of them was what used to be 166 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:16,400 called the Office of Research and Development, which had a 167 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:21,320 group that dealt with landscape level data sort of management 168 00:09:21,680 --> 00:09:26,080 analysis and visualization. And it grew into the EPA's 169 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:31,080 Enviro Atlas, which while the organization AKAORD no longer 170 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:34,320 exists on paper in our government, the Enviro Atlas 171 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:36,080 still doesn't. Many of the folks that are that 172 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:38,320 that supported and are working are still there. 173 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:42,400 So I worked on Enviro Atlas and help them with hundreds of 174 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:45,880 foundational data sets for that and really helped get them sort 175 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:48,760 of developed and then help them prop it up tested. 176 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:51,440 That sort of stuff is a great, great project. 177 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:53,760 Loved it. Great people too, just amazing 178 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:55,320 stuff. Really challenged me as a 179 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:59,800 geospatial professional. And so I had that and being so 180 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:02,640 excited about it. I had it on on my sort of CV 181 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:07,240 resume there and on one of the business professional social 182 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:09,600 media websites. I could certainly say it, Deb, 183 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:12,320 shoot me a text. And I was like, hey, she's like, 184 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:14,120 hey, this is an environment, this thing, What do you know 185 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:15,200 about it? I'm like, well, I know a lot 186 00:10:15,680 --> 00:10:17,520 actually. So we started. 187 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:21,240 I haunted him down. I haunted him down and found. 188 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:22,960 His. Research. 189 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:25,960 Skills paid off. Yeah, no. 190 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:29,200 He's really weird. It was so I'm like, OK, this is 191 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:30,520 great. I'm not completed. 192 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:36,560 He has an elite skill set that's really hard to find, and he has 193 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:42,280 been navigating the data with incredible accuracy and and 194 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:45,400 rigor and finesse and really showing incredible thought 195 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:48,440 leadership. That's great. 196 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:50,800 I mean you guys sounds like a good match there. 197 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:54,040 You know the solution for a first time user. 198 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:57,680 You walk us through like, you know, how does Toximap translate 199 00:10:57,680 --> 00:11:01,440 raw environmental data into a simple user interface that 200 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:04,560 includes interactive map, you know, maybe mapping your 201 00:11:04,560 --> 00:11:07,200 neighborhood. So you've got this toxic 202 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:09,360 neighborhood intensity score type thing. 203 00:11:09,680 --> 00:11:11,800 Help us understand how this works if you could. 204 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:14,640 And maybe what we could do is screen share and you can walk us 205 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:16,120 through it that way. I don't know if that's the best 206 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:19,320 way to to discuss it, but it might be I'm I've got a hunch. 207 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:23,520 Yeah, no, that's that's great. So I will absolutely do that. 208 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:32,320 So let's see here. Not sure that button is. 209 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:38,120 I'll give you the high level while she's doing it. 210 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:42,480 So you know, for me, I'm and, and you know, you've probably 211 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:45,280 done this as well as you, you've taken a lot of data for, for 212 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:51,480 clients and had to summarize it or rank it, rank it or put it in 213 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:54,440 some sort of order of such. So essentially that sort of 214 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,000 skill set. And with the geospatial analysis 215 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:01,680 part, we take the sort of universe of potentials across 216 00:12:01,680 --> 00:12:05,760 the United States and say, OK, let's divvy them up 217 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:11,800 statistically within each media and within each database and get 218 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:15,160 sort of an independent score for each of those sets of data. 219 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:18,720 And then roll it up into a overall toxin intensity score 220 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:23,360 for a given address with all those sort of calculations on 221 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:25,040 the fly, right? Like you type the address in 222 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:29,120 and, and now we're seeing it. Basically it zooms into a, a 223 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:33,200 location or an address and, and at that point, we'll then 224 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:36,120 produce both the Max, I'm sorry, the map. 225 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:39,680 And then those scores sort of you can see there by air, water 226 00:12:39,680 --> 00:12:41,160 and land. And then within the different 227 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:44,680 data sources, under air, water and land and then overall toxin 228 00:12:44,680 --> 00:12:46,840 intensity score. Yeah. 229 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:53,920 So he, he had to download and harmonize and we have spatially 230 00:12:53,920 --> 00:13:00,960 aligned, you know, over 60 data sets into 111 CSV file. 231 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:03,360 And then we layer it on to to map box. 232 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:07,440 And then he has a, you know, a special patent pending algorithm 233 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:12,320 that takes into account toxin intensity of each area, I mean 234 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:14,560 of each medium. And so this is where I was 235 00:13:14,560 --> 00:13:18,240 living when I learned about the cancer cluster and notice that 236 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:23,000 it's, it's, it's not even a, an extreme toxin toxicity score. 237 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:27,440 It's moderate. So this was my address and each, 238 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:31,720 this is an interactive map. So each symbol on the map has a 239 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:34,080 meaning. And this is basically my address 240 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:37,400 at the time. And this is a Superfund site. 241 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:40,840 And if we click on any of these sites, actually it will give you 242 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:46,400 a list of what the what the toxins are present in that site 243 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:48,800 to the degree that we have that information. 244 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,040 So arsenic, benzene and five more. 245 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:54,520 And you won't click on area summary summary to see what five 246 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:56,720 other ones. So arsenic, benzene, cadmium, 247 00:13:56,720 --> 00:14:00,560 lead, mercury, PHSPCBS, just in that one site. 248 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:06,880 If we come back to the map, we can click on, let's just do this 249 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:08,440 one. This is a brown. 250 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:11,760 Go ahead. So that's a great example of a 251 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:16,480 specific location where there is a contaminated site. 252 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:22,000 Is there any information that you also provide related to like 253 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:27,400 is there sounds like the exposure for the site is maybe 254 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:30,560 it's on site, but is there off site exposure challenges or 255 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:35,560 concerns are those identified in the the discovery of the 256 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:37,200 information? Or is it just say, hey, here's 257 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:39,800 the parameters of toxin that we know of that are here? 258 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,040 Is it, is it, you know, limiting to some of it? 259 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:43,920 I mean, maybe you can explain that a little bit. 260 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:46,720 Yeah. Do you want to do it or do you 261 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:47,320 want me to? Sure. 262 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:49,280 Sure, we've talked about this somewhat. 263 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:51,000 Yeah, a lot. And not just the two of us, 264 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:54,600 we've got other folks that help support us, including a board 265 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:58,520 certified toxicologist too. So the reality is there's a 266 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:02,000 difference between a hazard and a risk. 267 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:04,600 And it's subtle. We shouldn't get into it because 268 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:07,360 I'll mess it up. But all of what we're trying to 269 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:10,240 do here is say, hey, these things are here. 270 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:14,680 And of course, the time that these things were placed or 271 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:19,480 became into existence, the intensity, the longevity, your 272 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:22,760 own role in being around that, you know, all those things are 273 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:26,120 just, they're too much variables for us to say this is your 274 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:28,520 exposure. What we do is a risk of 275 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:31,600 exposure, right? It's just to say this is all 276 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,480 here, right? And this is so much more than 277 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:37,000 you can get from any other place. 278 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,480 And you know from Echo that you can click on the points and it 279 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:42,520 tells you the name and address and it gives you their unique 280 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:46,880 UEPAID for their facility, their facility registration number, 281 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:49,640 but that's it. They don't easily. 282 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:52,200 You have to click three more websites to even get a list of 283 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:54,600 what they do. And maybe you get a list of 284 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:56,520 chemicals. Maybe you don't right. 285 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:59,720 You have to do that for each individual site and you can't 286 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:02,360 even do it for some of these data sets like the Tri sites 287 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:04,760 that we've got. I had to do a some serious 288 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:07,920 transformation and sort of a special request from E pay to do 289 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:10,760 a data dump for me to then use to then harmonize with our data 290 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:12,320 sets. So there's a definitely a couple 291 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:15,640 steps to go in there that make this sort of a boom within 3 292 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:17,480 miles. Just how many of sites each of 293 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:19,680 the things you got? This is a list of toxins in the 294 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,280 different media. Boom, easy button, right? 295 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:26,560 Yeah, yeah, exposure. Is really dependent on how each 296 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:29,320 individual interacts with those points. 297 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:33,720 And it's it's actually a point of empowerment because people 298 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:36,560 can radically reduce their exposure risk and their actual 299 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:40,680 exposure if they simply abstain from interacting with the sites 300 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:43,680 that are toxic. And they can't do that unless 301 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:47,080 they know where they are at the same time there is spread, 302 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:48,840 right? They're spread through storm 303 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:52,320 waters, they're spread through wind over time, they're spread 304 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:55,000 through groundwaters to the degree to which something's not 305 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:58,040 contained. And so it's kind of like a 306 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:01,520 little bit of a soup, right. We kind of live in A to some, to 307 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:05,680 greater or lesser degrees, and if we know what we're being 308 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:10,839 exposed to or what's present, yeah, for any other purpose, not 309 00:17:10,839 --> 00:17:15,000 only health, but also all kinds of decisions, financial 310 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,119 decisions, real estate decisions, investment decisions, 311 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:22,520 insurance decisions. You know what the risk set is to 312 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:26,720 begin with or you have the data are incomplete like the EPA is 313 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:30,520 not tested every single square inch of soil and water in the 314 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:33,320 US. So our map is kind of an under 315 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:35,640 representation. It's an underestimate, we'll 316 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:37,720 say. It's a good indication of what 317 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,960 your potential concerns are in the neighborhood. 318 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:44,320 So you can actually have an idea of if you think you have 319 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:46,880 symptoms that might be related to something like that. 320 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:49,800 Well, maybe there is a 'cause that's the 'cause that could be 321 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:50,840 the 'cause. We never know. 322 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:54,840 But I mean, at least you have a good indication of what areas 323 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,680 that you maybe live in that have, you know, have had some 324 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:01,480 exposure to. Yeah, I mean, it's it gives you 325 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:03,360 a huge leg up, right. Yeah. 326 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:08,280 And the reality is, it all boils down to knowledge is power, 327 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:09,840 right? Yeah, absolutely. 328 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:11,080 I know. I get you. 329 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:14,320 You know when you when you guys track your guys are tracking 330 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:18,520 over 150 different toxins. What specific public and private 331 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:22,520 data sources aside from maybe like the EPA, you know, echo 332 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:26,240 site are you guys using to aggregate to bring all this 333 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,440 together? I mean, are you talk a little 334 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:30,520 bit about some of the types of sources you guys are pulling? 335 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:31,280 Sure. Yeah. 336 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:35,240 So in the current version that was just shown by by Deb there 337 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:42,800 we we have about almost 1000 toxins from essentially five 338 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:44,960 different major data sources there. 339 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:51,280 We are in the process of pulling in not just the five major data 340 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:54,560 sets but and Deb has said this already 60 data sets. 341 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:57,360 So what we are socially doing is we start with the low hanging 342 00:18:57,360 --> 00:18:59,960 fruit that's EP as databases etcetera. 343 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:02,880 And I see low hanging fruit still requires a lot of work and 344 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:06,040 massaging and then starting to look at state data sets because 345 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:09,040 we know that there's a lot of state data sets that sometimes 346 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:11,400 roll up to the feds. Sometimes it takes a while to 347 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:13,480 roll up to the feds. Sometimes it never goes. 348 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:15,800 Up never goes up there. Yeah, because they don't have 349 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:19,080 money to do it, but they just track their own state, State 350 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:22,920 lead sites, voluntary remediation sites, USD sites 351 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:24,360 that don't go all the way up to the feds. 352 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:28,240 There's, I mean, and of course, as with everything you go from 353 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:30,640 one state to another, it can be drastically different. 354 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:34,040 So our next version of release, we're going to essentially 355 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:37,680 double the amount of unique toxicants in the land, air and 356 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:38,960 water. We're going to get around, we're 357 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:41,360 actually going to get close to 1900. 358 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:45,680 It says 1500, but it's when we, when I get all done and said 359 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:49,360 with this, this effort I'm currently under way on we're, 360 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:51,560 we're going to have 1900 different toxins. 361 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:55,280 We're going to drastically improve the number and ability 362 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:58,040 for folks to understand not drinking water. 363 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:01,280 But the other one, the the contact surface water, lakes, 364 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:04,000 ponds, rivers, streams, we're going to drastically improve 365 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:07,160 that data set quite a bit in terms of detail. 366 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:10,080 Also the air quality right now we went for the low hanging 367 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:12,960 fruit air quality. You know, people know AQI, 368 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:15,640 right? There's 66 sort of measured 369 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:18,920 chemicals that go into that. We've got those six, but. 370 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:22,400 There's hundreds that they're actually measuring, so we're 371 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:25,480 going to bring those in too. Yeah, well, you know the the 372 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:30,480 likelihood now too of well, not the likelihood the emergence of 373 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:33,800 P Foss in the industry. I mean that one should be, I 374 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:37,600 would think, a big hot topic for Toxie map to start tracking. 375 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:38,080 It. Oh yeah. 376 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:41,280 Well, yeah, you saw it on that list, right there was the list 377 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:42,520 she had of Yeah. It's. 378 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:45,800 In there. Already it's in there. 379 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,600 It is in there so and so. There's a difference between 380 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,240 measuring it and a different difference between addressing it 381 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:52,800 as a standard. And that's the hot topic right 382 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,480 now is how much is too much, right? 383 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:59,480 And you're getting different values associated from EPA and 384 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:01,680 different state level. I live in North Carolina, and so 385 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:05,040 you know. You got some contamination there 386 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:05,760 for sure. What are the? 387 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:08,200 PFAS. PFAS crucibles, if you will. 388 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:12,240 Although you know. 1st in flight, first in PFAS, no. 389 00:21:12,360 --> 00:21:14,960 The. The reality is it was just the 390 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,000 first time people really noticed it, right? 391 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:18,520 And of course, yeah, we have a lot. 392 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:21,320 And so the states are coming up with their own guidelines and 393 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:25,440 roles and all of that is is just so such new science, right? 394 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:29,560 Like, I'm training individuals that I'm learning from that are 395 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:32,880 in my classes that are learning with the toxicologist at Duke 396 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:35,400 about how to deal with this PFS thing. 397 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:39,080 I mean, it's just crazy. I feel lucky to be sort of in 398 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:41,440 the room, if you will, with these folks because it's really 399 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,200 neat to watch these smart people go at it. 400 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:48,920 It's it's certainly it's not going to be something that goes 401 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:52,200 away anytime soon in the market in our lifetime basically. 402 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:55,400 And yeah, so there's always going to be an interesting and 403 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:58,400 where the exposure is, where the concentrations are highest, 404 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:02,480 what's going on with drinking water, you know, facilities 405 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:06,840 where's, where's the watersheds that are, are mostly impacted. 406 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:10,040 I mean, so you know, when you mentioned you're going to start 407 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:13,160 adding, you know, surface water type stuff to it too, that's 408 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,520 that's going to be pretty interesting if there's a lot of 409 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:17,760 data in there. I know for some recent 410 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:21,160 conversations we've had with some state agencies that yeah, 411 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,800 they've done some mapping, they've done the the sampling of 412 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:26,280 where P Foss is kind of high in surface water. 413 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:28,400 And they doing that because they're trying to figure out 414 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,520 where the public intakes are from the drinking water 415 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:33,760 facilities and should they go upstream and who's the 416 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:35,840 environment, who's the industrial dischargers and 417 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:36,880 things like that. So. 418 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:41,600 Yeah, and this is The thing is we're learning that PFAS, not to 419 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,320 stay stuck on it, you know, it's using a lot of different things 420 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:46,400 and in some cases it's used in very important things like 421 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:51,520 firefighting foam, which. OK, great, Well, OK, great. 422 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:54,880 What if we use it once on an airplane or a fire, a Firehouse 423 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,400 or firehouses, store it, whatever, right? 424 00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:59,720 Like all these things that aren't just necessarily 425 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:04,520 industrial producers of Teflon, but just like plastic. 426 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:06,560 What do we use that has plastic in it? 427 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:09,520 Everything. Almost everything. 428 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:10,600 Everything. Yeah. 429 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:15,920 There's an article recently that came out that indicated research 430 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:20,280 has found PFAS in the bloodstream of polar bears in 431 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,640 Greenland. So it is ubiquitous. 432 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,800 It's not just like, you know, in our drinking water, It's been 433 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,760 spread all over the world. Our assumption is that it's 434 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,000 ubiquitous. And, you know, where do we go 435 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:32,280 from there? What are we going to do about 436 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,880 it? What, how can we manage that and 437 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:38,920 what protect our bodies from it? And there are techniques, there 438 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,480 are things that can actually pull PFAS out of drinking water. 439 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:45,760 So which is a really good? News yeah, there's a lot of 440 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:49,080 really good technology for that and and that's great. 441 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,520 And and finally, you know, there's there is some, you know, 442 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,680 I think some security down the road for a lot of people who are 443 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:58,400 concerned about exposure. But it definitely is going to 444 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,240 come at a cost, unfortunately for the ratepayers of a lot of 445 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:03,720 drinking water facilities who weren't the cause of the 446 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:07,840 contamination, unfortunately. And they're paying the the cost 447 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:11,400 and it's it's unfortunately not really a fair proposition. 448 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:13,840 But what are you going to do? Are you going to have bad water 449 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:17,560 or are you going to, you know, so that's the crux that we're in 450 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,680 with a lot of these communities that are highly impacted. 451 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,560 Hello ET Nation, I want to thank you for listening to the 452 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:26,080 podcast. If you're enjoying the 453 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,960 interviews we bring you, consider supporting the program 454 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:32,920 by visiting my website at seankgrady.com and buy me a cup 455 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,040 of coffee. Proceeds will go towards helping 456 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,440 me continue producing timely content and offset production 457 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,360 costs. I'd also like to take a moment 458 00:24:41,360 --> 00:24:43,880 and recognize a few of our sponsors of the show who have 459 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:46,960 been amazing partners and our ET Nation legends. 460 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,120 If you're looking for a drilling and environmental contracting 461 00:24:50,120 --> 00:24:53,320 firm to help you delineate the extent of contamination at your 462 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:56,560 site and look no further than Cascade Environmental. 463 00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:01,000 Cascade has over 37 offices across the country and offers a 464 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,120 huge range of environmental and geotechnical drilling, site 465 00:25:04,120 --> 00:25:06,840 characterization, and remediation services. 466 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,400 With their huge fleet of equipment nationwide coverage, 467 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:14,360 Cascade is a great choice to support your environmental and 468 00:25:14,360 --> 00:25:17,240 infrastructure needs. 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This protocol gives Peace of 476 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:47,520 Mind for the previous customer by limiting their downstream 477 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:51,360 liability as well as the future customer by preventing any cross 478 00:25:51,360 --> 00:25:54,400 contamination for all of their rental tanks. 479 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:59,440 E Tank also runs a one-of-a-kind complete maintenance program for 480 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,320 all rental items including liquid tight roll off 481 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:07,160 containers, fluid transfer pumps and filtration items. 482 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,320 The next time you are presented with an environmental challenge, 483 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,800 call E Tank to come up with the solution for your problem. 484 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,080 I want to thank one of our sponsors, Wastelink. 485 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,880 Wastelink is the all in one software platform transforming 486 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,640 how environmental professionals manage waste, connecting 487 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,600 generators, service providers, and disposal facilities in a way 488 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,800 that is simple, connected, and transparent. 489 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,760 Their platform helps streamline everything from waste profiling 490 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:38,800 and routing to inventory management and billing, giving 491 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,720 you the tools you need to operate more efficiently and 492 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,320 reduce cost. Whether you're a generator 493 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:48,560 looking for better options or a service provider seeking greater 494 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:51,000 efficiency, Wastelink has you covered. 495 00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:54,000 If you're ready to take control of your waste management 496 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:58,520 processes and optimize your business, visit wastelink.com to 497 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:01,600 schedule a demo today. You know, when you look at this 498 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,680 technology stack you guys are working on, talk about building 499 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:08,200 a platform that geolocates toxins with the three mile 500 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,520 radius and you know this massive data challenge, you know, what 501 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:15,400 core technologies are you using to power this visualization? 502 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:20,280 Yeah. You know, Peter has his GIS, you 503 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:23,640 know his amazing, his technology there in his office, but we also 504 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,480 have a CTO and he's working on that. 505 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:30,080 He's using a number of different technologies. 506 00:27:30,120 --> 00:27:34,520 I'll just mention a few. He we are using map box for the, 507 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:38,920 the, it's the kind of the very user friendly kind of a simple 508 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:41,960 interactive map program that's out there. 509 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:46,200 We're using super base for the data and React for some of the 510 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,080 coding and it's on AWS so it's it's a. 511 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:53,240 Cloud system. Yeah, it's a very big data set 512 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,240 with obviously backed up many times. 513 00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:58,920 And we also have a lot of security, you know, 514 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,680 cybersecurity measures in place that in fact we have one of the 515 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:06,840 top cybersecurity experts on the board and she's advising us on 516 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:10,120 that matter often. So we had, it's a very complex 517 00:28:10,120 --> 00:28:14,160 but very manageable stack and we have a really capable, we're 518 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:15,880 blessed with the capable technology, yeah. 519 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,200 He's straight. Keeping it fast is important, 520 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:20,120 right? Yeah. 521 00:28:20,120 --> 00:28:22,480 Right, that is the the the trick right? 522 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,360 And and curious, is AI playing a role in this? 523 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:27,840 I don't know this stack for you guys as well. 524 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,920 Well, we are not predicting anything, OK? 525 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,440 We are. We are presenting reality. 526 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:36,880 So we're not doing any predictive modeling. 527 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:40,320 We're not. We, our CTO may use AI in some 528 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:42,760 of the code creation process, but that's it. 529 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:46,480 All the data are real life, real world accurate. 530 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:51,040 And I think paradoxically, in this age of AI mania, it's a 531 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:55,280 strength of ours to be grounded and rooted in the real world. 532 00:28:56,160 --> 00:29:00,160 Yeah, they're, you know, we, we've had discussions about oh, 533 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,600 no, OK, wouldn't it be great if there was a sort of site based 534 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:09,560 agentic or agent AI to help someone explore this explore 535 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:13,280 Toxie map or explore the data that comes out of their St. 536 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:14,720 search. So it's definitely on our 537 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,280 horizon, but we're not, we're certainly not. 538 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:20,360 We're just using, we're using cloud storage, right? 539 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:25,320 Like I joke, we're using server farms as opposed to corn farms. 540 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,360 We're using server farms and so does everybody else. 541 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,520 Basically we see if we, you know, we have an amazing road 542 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:33,040 map. There's so much on our road map 543 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,040 that's exciting. And one of the things not only 544 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,760 having sort of like a chat bot or something to help somebody 545 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,120 through the massive amount of information, but also we 546 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:45,760 envision a future where maybe there is a pollution copilot, 547 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:48,720 you know, for, for every person on their iPhone or their, their 548 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,400 Android. And that's definitely going to 549 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,720 be have an AI component. So we're we're using AI for some 550 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,560 features, but not around the data in the building, but not 551 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:03,280 around the data itself. Now some road map features. 552 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:05,040 Let's talk a little bit about some of your features. 553 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,680 You kind of think I mean because I can think of 1 right away that 554 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,240 seems to be like an ideal fit for this solution. 555 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:15,400 What is that? Well, say I'm a concerned 556 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:19,560 citizen and I'm looking for, you know, impacts in my 557 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,200 neighborhood. And I want to know once I figure 558 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,240 out that I've got contaminated sites that let right around my 559 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:30,160 my home and do I have any exposure that I need to worry 560 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:35,200 about whether that air, water, those types of things. 561 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,760 Maybe there's a way to kind of link up and partner with a, a 562 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:42,440 company that could offer, you know, a drop ship sampling prop, 563 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,960 you know, program to sample your water, you know, type thing and 564 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:50,040 you use that data, start building further data sets into 565 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:51,360 this rate. That's right. 566 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,680 Kind of Crowdsource other things, right, Right. 567 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,800 Yeah, Crowdsourcing is actually on our road map for sure, not 568 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:02,440 just people that use Toxie map to then get a sample. 569 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,280 But the reality is a lot of people have information already 570 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,640 right, one way or another. And so we're going to build that 571 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,000 in as part of a road map is to think, how do we really get the 572 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,200 community involved? Because this is this is all of 573 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,040 us, right? Like we care about this. 574 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,160 We all do. And the the more we care, the 575 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:20,760 more benefit we get to each other. 576 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:24,080 You know, another, another one. And just so, I mean, I think 577 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,560 Deb, I told you this before, but I've, I've, I used to operate 578 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:29,200 and manage a software product too. 579 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:34,480 And so we had sprints and road map planning and you know, all 580 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,560 the, you know, I had a good scrum master and you know, it 581 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:39,600 was a lot of fun. But here's another thought, you 582 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:43,520 know, like where's the recycling center, my closest recycling 583 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:47,200 center to my property so I can recycle those toxins that are, 584 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,320 you know, maybe getting in the system because not everyone, you 585 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,000 know, usually knows where they can find that data. 586 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:54,520 Another little interesting tidbit. 587 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,200 Or where's the landfill, right? I mean, there. 588 00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,600 So those are things I think, you know, just kind of thinking out 589 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,320 loud maybe, you know, helping you kind of build out this 590 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:06,640 future view of this program. Since I've been in the 591 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:10,680 environmental field a long time myself, former consultant for 23 592 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:14,120 years myself and a regulator for aid, I kind of kind of know the 593 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,240 the mindset of these guys. And so yeah, that's another one 594 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,000 that would be really good. But when you talk about your 595 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,520 target audience a little bit, let's talk through that. 596 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,080 I mean, you partner with networks like the Mosaic 597 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:28,360 Diagnostics, maybe talk a little bit about who they are, what 598 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:31,240 they are with it, what's their the relationship with them? 599 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:33,320 How does that product help them? Yeah. 600 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:38,160 So we have sort of AB to B to C model right now as well as AB to 601 00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:41,400 C model. And we are working with and 602 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:46,640 through healthcare practitioners and Mosaic Diagnostics is a 603 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:50,560 reference lab and they have three tests that assess the bio 604 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:54,200 accumulation of environmental toxins, you know in our body. 605 00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:58,240 And so that's a really important partner because that gives our 606 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:03,480 our B to C consumers users point of, you know, an action that 607 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:07,200 they can take that has very, you know, that has great potential 608 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,960 for healing. Also, we are in the process of 609 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,800 supporting integrative naturopathic and functional 610 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:17,000 doctors to really profoundly change the standard of care 611 00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:21,840 around every touch point with a patient to include a Toximap 612 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,920 report for each patient. So that not only are we talking 613 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:29,240 about symptoms or diagnosis or medications or whatever, but 614 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:32,720 also what are your potential exposures and which tests should 615 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:36,800 we be ordering for you? And then we can build a plan to 616 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:41,760 create detoxification for your body if you have stuff that's in 617 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:45,320 the body, which most of us have. And then how not to re toxify 618 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:48,680 because when we are there and there are great technique for 619 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:52,280 detox, but if we're constantly being retoxed at the same time, 620 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,080 it's kind of a race between detox and Retox. 621 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:59,680 And if people the interventions not going to to be sustainable 622 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:01,880 if they're just everyone's just being retoxified. 623 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:07,160 And so Toximap helps detox win that race because people can 624 00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:11,400 they're incredible mitigating actions patients or people can 625 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,800 take. If they are aware of what toxins 626 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,320 are in their environment, they can avoid the points of 627 00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:20,239 potential contact. They can test their soil and 628 00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:23,920 maybe use garden raised beds or something if they're going to do 629 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:26,080 gardening or flowering. So they're not interacting with 630 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:30,120 the soil that much. Water filters, air filters, you 631 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,840 know, avoid the locations. I'll tell you what, I do not 632 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,120 allow my child to swim in any water body that I haven't toxi 633 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:38,480 mapped. And that lesson was hard one, 634 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:43,600 because there was a public town pond in Massachusetts where we 635 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,440 used to live that everyone went to. 636 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:50,040 Very sweet, you think this world sweet little pond, great beach 637 00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:55,400 and she I would let, I would unknowingly let her swim there. 638 00:34:55,400 --> 00:35:00,000 And after I create a Toxie map, turns out it had elevated levels 639 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:04,400 of mercury and that actually was confirmed in her and some of her 640 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:08,920 lab work. That is a very powerful action I 641 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:12,560 as a parent can take to protect my child and myself. 642 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,720 You know, if I just don't interact with these points of 643 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:20,280 potential exposure, it really supports the healing process 644 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:24,480 that that's happening. Well, maybe Peter, you can maybe 645 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,000 kind of talk a little bit about some of the environmental 646 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:30,840 consulting community type use cases or any EHS professional 647 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:34,800 and you know some of the other potential personas of A use case 648 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,800 that could help out and maybe give us an idea of what you see 649 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:39,920 there. Yeah, sure. 650 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:41,360 Yeah. So Deb's already kind of 651 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,200 mentioned how we've got functional doctors, we've got 652 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:47,160 mosaics. So the, the company that 653 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:53,040 provides the test to test the human part and, or other 654 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:56,600 companies that have the test kits for the soil and water, 655 00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:59,360 right? So, you know, taking, taking the 656 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:01,320 knowledge that we give you and go to the next level. 657 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,040 And that's what we tend to do in environmental consulting, right? 658 00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:09,560 We, we are helping investigate, summarize and visualize and then 659 00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:13,720 make a recommendation. So a lot of what we do and, and 660 00:36:13,720 --> 00:36:17,040 I still do in the environmental consulting world is we do a like 661 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:20,040 a landscape level analysis. And then you start identifying 662 00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:22,280 sites of interest, whether they're sites that are good or 663 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,080 sites or that are bad, and then you start to rank them, right? 664 00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,680 That's what we do for all sorts of things as environmental 665 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,280 profession. And so the environmental 666 00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:32,640 consulting community, what Toximap can do is provide a 667 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:34,760 short, a short circuit, right, a shortcut. 668 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:38,840 And in in the consulting world, you are billable to a project. 669 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,160 You take time, you take money, it takes budget. 670 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:46,280 If you can do something in 30 minutes and QA it as opposed to 671 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,720 6 to 8 hours while you save a lot of money and time, right. 672 00:36:49,720 --> 00:36:51,520 And then you roll that up over time. 673 00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:54,560 It saves a lot of money and time for the company and the clients. 674 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:56,240 Yeah. I mean, you know, there's a lot 675 00:36:56,240 --> 00:37:00,160 of work on the environmental side. 676 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:05,400 So just for instance, all appropriate inquiries related 677 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:09,240 to, you know, a phase one kind of due diligence type project. 678 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:13,480 You know, we've typically will go through an EDR request and 679 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,520 and pull the data and see what sites you see there. 680 00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:20,840 It's not always identifying the containment concern, but you, 681 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:25,640 you see a site, if you're doing NEPA work, you've got to 682 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:28,120 identify what are potential concerns out there there. 683 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,440 So I think you guys got a nice niche here that you can get in 684 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:33,880 front of the consulting community and, and use this as 685 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:38,280 an additional layer or additional, you know, source of 686 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:43,560 information for them to actually grab this data quickly included 687 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:47,160 in their report that you've done, you know, this additional 688 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:51,040 taxi map level, you know, reviewed identifying these 689 00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:54,840 containments of concern. Because you know, you're always 690 00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:58,720 trying to educate or, you know, I guess not educate, but to, you 691 00:37:58,720 --> 00:38:03,200 know, inform the, the clients what the concerns are in, in, in 692 00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,480 their area where they're looking at whether it's a brownfield 693 00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:10,480 site or, you know, IPA projects, you know, so, so if there's a 694 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:14,480 way that I, I see a pathway where you guys could get, you 695 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,720 know, more in front of that aspect of the environmental 696 00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:21,320 assessment phase and use it as a tool for that, that would be 697 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:23,920 really, I think powerful. Yeah, absolutely. 698 00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:26,800 I mean I used to do Phase 1 Esas and and I know all that goes 699 00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:30,440 into them and Toximap is of course not going to replace 700 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:33,400 that. But I can certainly in a big 701 00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:37,800 way, like I said, short, short circuit or supplement that any 702 00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:40,880 even, you know, the same thing applies. 703 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,880 And and Deb can talk more about the relationship we have with a 704 00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:46,800 National Association of home inspectors, right? 705 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:50,360 Like home inspectors rely on databases and things and, and 706 00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:53,400 put them into their report to you, right, If you're going to 707 00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:57,280 buy a piece of property. And so you get a home inspection 708 00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:00,680 right through that due diligence period of of home buying. 709 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:04,480 And so we we're in conversation with them about that to supply 710 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,320 sort of a plug in add in add on thing as well, right. 711 00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:11,960 So this huge database has a lot of great applications just like 712 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,680 you, you identified for environmental consultants for 713 00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:16,880 home inspector. Yeah, insurance, yeah. 714 00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:18,520 I mean, yeah, there's so much there. 715 00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:19,960 I think. Yeah, I think you guys are on to 716 00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:22,840 something really cool. Like I like where you're going 717 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,200 with this, the maps very interactive. 718 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:27,880 I think the data is very insightful. 719 00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:31,720 I do kind of like the, the scoring metrics that you pulled 720 00:39:31,720 --> 00:39:36,720 together, although I think maybe do you guys do any, do you kind 721 00:39:36,720 --> 00:39:40,120 of summarize how you derive these scores for the user when 722 00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:43,120 they use it, they kind of have a little peek behind like how they 723 00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:45,640 come up with this rating. You know, what's the the 724 00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:49,520 process, because you probably I can envision some engineers or 725 00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:51,880 some other scientists going, hey, you know, what does this 726 00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:53,320 even mean? And they're going to challenge 727 00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:55,280 at least the rating. So I'm. 728 00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:57,720 Scared. We welcome the challenge, We 729 00:39:57,720 --> 00:40:00,520 absolutely welcome any challenge, any feedback to. 730 00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:02,720 The you, you know where I'm coming from because that's just 731 00:40:02,720 --> 00:40:05,200 the nature of the nature of scientific community, yeah. 732 00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:09,440 Yeah, let's, let's open the hood and take a look at this thing. 733 00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:12,080 Yeah, right. And so we want to open the hood 734 00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:13,840 appropriately. So it's not. 735 00:40:14,240 --> 00:40:17,920 It's patent pending. So we we have a few patents on 736 00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:21,120 this, but you can talk a little bit about it it. 737 00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:26,120 Really, it really is true to to what it says. 738 00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:29,280 It's an intensity, right? And intensity has to do with the 739 00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:32,080 number and the density, spatial density, right. 740 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:37,360 So what we've done is and to inform why did I get a moderate 741 00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:41,080 or OK, I've got a moderate, but this one's really high. 742 00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:44,520 Like, that's why we give you those sort of broken out levels 743 00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:46,360 of intensity by media. Yeah. 744 00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:48,280 Because maybe you never go swimming. 745 00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:49,800 Yeah, you're right. Yeah. 746 00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,320 So it's not a big problem for me if I'm not going swimming, 747 00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:54,040 right. You know, it's like I don't have 748 00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:55,680 that exposure. I don't eat fish, I'm not 749 00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:58,120 fishing, I'm not going to get in the water, that sort of thing. 750 00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:01,720 But maybe, you know, we have some colleagues that they love 751 00:41:01,720 --> 00:41:04,400 going swimming. Yeah, well, I mean, you're 752 00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:06,120 right. So it says, I got a question. 753 00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:10,400 How does toximat bridge the gap between identifying a risk and 754 00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,040 taking action through healthcare or mitigation? 755 00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:18,080 Yeah. So we provide our users with 756 00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:21,600 mitigating in you know mitigating steps that they can 757 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:26,360 take like for instance if there is has been some water drinking 758 00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,280 water contamination identified. So we'll provide them 759 00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:35,120 information about how to which water filters might be 760 00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:37,760 appropriate for the particular contaminants in the drinking 761 00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:39,400 water. So water filters either 762 00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:43,000 centrally through the house or at each tap point in the house, 763 00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:46,960 which water bodies to avoid Mosaic diagnostics, we give them 764 00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:49,520 a lot of resources for toxicologist, functional 765 00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:53,120 doctors, naturopathic doctors, chelation. 766 00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:56,560 There's a huge amount of amount of resources on the site that we 767 00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:58,920 can provide. Of course, the diagnostic 768 00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:03,960 testing as well, we're also about to bring on the course 769 00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:07,800 from EMEI, which is Environmental Medicine Education 770 00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:11,800 Institute that actually trains doctors, but they have a course 771 00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:15,040 for the general public about how to thrive in the polluted world 772 00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:18,400 or toxic environment. And so they'll have lots of 773 00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:21,840 tricks and information there. We also provide limited 774 00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:25,480 information about like opening the detoxification pathways. 775 00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:27,640 We're not, we're not medical doctors. 776 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:31,080 We are not prescribing or diagnosing or giving any sort of 777 00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:34,880 medical advice, but there's some really simple things that people 778 00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:40,520 can do like dry brushing or taking NAC or taking vitamin C 779 00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:44,920 and, you know, certain kinds of detoxifying foods for infrared 780 00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:48,200 sauna, that kind of thing. So that people feel like they're 781 00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:51,320 not just dumped with all this information and know, you know, 782 00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:57,280 test the soil, test the water, come up with there are 783 00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:00,040 solutions. You know, I'm even hearing about 784 00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:04,800 people are inventing ways to clean up. 785 00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:07,800 There's this new the mush, this kind of mushroom that can eat 786 00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,360 certain types of toxins. So I can imagine a world in 787 00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:14,600 which we're spawning a whole new set of industries for cleanup. 788 00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:16,960 So but that that's down the road. 789 00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:20,560 What right now we're focusing on is informing people and making 790 00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:22,760 them feel empowered around this information. 791 00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:25,360 No, that's great. That's really good. 792 00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:29,280 I mean, yeah, you, you, you just kind of touched on some stuff 793 00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:30,920 and it just hit me in the my mind too. 794 00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:33,960 It's like you guys could do a plug in with web MD or something 795 00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:35,920 like that. You know, where they, you know, 796 00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:37,960 oh, you've got this. Just go right here and look it 797 00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:40,920 up, right? I mean, there's some cool stuff 798 00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:44,000 there that you're you're the possibilities of this 799 00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:47,080 application are pretty endless. I mean, I guess yeah, you guys 800 00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:48,240 are got. I like it. 801 00:43:48,240 --> 00:43:50,400 I like it. So let's talk about funding. 802 00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:51,960 Let's talk about funding and growth. 803 00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:55,240 Funding and growth. You guys are an emerging leader 804 00:43:55,240 --> 00:43:57,160 in the environmental with environmental health. 805 00:43:57,280 --> 00:43:59,720 So where do you currently stand with your funding? 806 00:43:59,720 --> 00:44:02,480 You know your seed, your Series A, you know what kind of key 807 00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:06,800 milestones are you aiming to hit to attract your next round of 808 00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:07,880 investors. Yeah. 809 00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:12,640 So we would really love to get a few more partners on board and 810 00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:15,720 we are in conversation with five different potential partners or 811 00:44:15,720 --> 00:44:18,480 more. So we are in the process of 812 00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:21,600 engaging these partners. And once that is, they're sort 813 00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:25,280 of like B to B to C partners, B to B partners who can really 814 00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:29,000 amplify our reach to the general public and also to the 815 00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:32,960 professional professionals who are connected to our product. 816 00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:38,520 So we are hoping to get those partners on board and and start, 817 00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:42,360 you know go around with the next funding which would be seed A. 818 00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:47,080 Seed all right, So still trying to get the private investors to 819 00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:49,800 kind of jump on board and partner with you now before you 820 00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:51,920 go into the next round of seed fund. 821 00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:55,840 Is that, well, our priority right now is Angel investors, 822 00:44:55,840 --> 00:45:00,880 individuals who are, you know, they're passionate about this 823 00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:05,160 topic or any organizations that are strategically connected to 824 00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:09,800 the value chain in this space. And yeah, individuals, we're, 825 00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:13,280 we're not, we're not ready to really crowdfund yet, but we 826 00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:16,160 will. We're open to the different 827 00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:17,720 sources. Yeah. 828 00:45:17,720 --> 00:45:20,680 No, I think there's a lot of venture capital or investment 829 00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:23,720 venture, you know, investment type companies that be very 830 00:45:23,720 --> 00:45:26,640 interested in this product and learning more about it would be 831 00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:28,280 really great. And maybe they can hear about it 832 00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:30,040 through this podcast, and that'll be great. 833 00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:35,080 Well, take your call for sure. Yeah, No, exactly. 834 00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:37,560 So I mean, there's a lot of VCs out there that probably would 835 00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:40,840 say this sounds like a great opportunity to help you help you 836 00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:43,160 guys. You know, the biotech industry's 837 00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:45,240 huge. I'm surprised they wouldn't be 838 00:45:45,240 --> 00:45:50,080 jumping on this to help support the, you know, the, the medicine 839 00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:54,240 diagnosis of, you know, exposure to their patients that come in. 840 00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:57,800 Yeah, I, you know, there's that would be a huge one, I would 841 00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:00,240 think. Absolutely. 842 00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:03,160 Talk a little bit about privacy and ethics a little bit like 843 00:46:03,240 --> 00:46:06,640 environmental data can sometimes impact property values and local 844 00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:08,920 reputations. How do you balance the ethical 845 00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:12,760 responsibility of transparency with potential sensitive 846 00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:16,200 sensitivities of the communities that you map? 847 00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:19,600 Yeah, that's a really good question and an important 848 00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:22,120 question, So thank you for asking it. 849 00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:27,280 We do not share toxicant source information like private company 850 00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:30,800 names or addresses. We don't attribute pollution 851 00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:32,920 presence to anyone or any entity. 852 00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:36,640 We just really focus on on what's present. 853 00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:41,760 We don't other organizations are focusing on that and our primary 854 00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:46,360 ethical commitment is around data accuracy and accessibility. 855 00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:51,520 So we feel obligated to represent the data that is 856 00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:55,800 available in the most rigorous, you know, accurate manner. 857 00:46:56,160 --> 00:47:02,960 And it's possible that property values could be disrupted or 858 00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:07,160 shift slightly as we become our information is more widely 859 00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:09,880 spread out there. It's not too unlike what's 860 00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:13,400 happening in climate risk. I'm not sure if you're, you 861 00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:16,040 know, 1st St. let's just say they have some really 862 00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:20,880 interesting predictive models about heat and flood and wind 863 00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:25,560 risk around different locations in the US And of course our 864 00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:28,760 coastlines are shifting. So, you know, the properties and 865 00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:32,920 coastlines are definitely going to be valued differently. 866 00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:35,400 And so there's a possibility that that may happen. 867 00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:39,560 But our ethical commitment is really towards information 868 00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:42,800 symmetry creating, you know, making this information 869 00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:47,000 ubiquitously available to people, businesses, 870 00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:51,400 organizations who are making decisions that this to which 871 00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:54,480 this data would contribute. No, that's really good. 872 00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:59,040 I mean, yeah, I can see it is a can be a challenge, but I think 873 00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:02,840 the the good outweighs the bad in these scenarios. 874 00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:06,080 People need to know that they are have the potential exposure. 875 00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:09,440 They, a lot of people probably have been living in the 876 00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:13,160 surrounding areas for decades and don't even know that there's 877 00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:17,200 an issue or they're the, that the property that's 2 miles from 878 00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:20,200 them or a mile from them. And, and you know, all along it 879 00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:22,160 hasn't really affected their property value anyways. 880 00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:23,520 So they're probably. A. 881 00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:27,760 Big issue with it, but you know, I think it's, it's a good, good 882 00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:30,600 question and, and I'm glad you are concerned about it. 883 00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:33,520 When you look ahead, you know, what's the future vision here? 884 00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:36,360 What, what you know, look, five years from now, what do you 885 00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:39,000 think Toximax going to become? You think it'll become a 886 00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:42,560 standard part of real estate transactions or mandatory 887 00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:46,000 diagnostic tools in the medical field or, you know, for primary 888 00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:47,280 care? What do you, what do you, what 889 00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:50,800 do you see this going? Yeah, that's a beautiful 890 00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:53,360 question, So thank you for that one as well. 891 00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:57,760 Our vision is really to provide the environmental intelligence 892 00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:02,680 infrastructure that can be used across all industries wherever 893 00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:04,920 it's it's needed. You know, that could be health 894 00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:08,720 insurance, could be risk insurance, underwriting 895 00:49:08,720 --> 00:49:12,040 medicine, healthcare, real estate. 896 00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:15,840 We're really democratizing access to this information to 897 00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:18,480 the general population and and across all industries. 898 00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:21,720 So we don't limit it just to real estate or healthcare. 899 00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:25,680 It's data that's pertinent to all kinds of business and 900 00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:27,840 municipal government decision making. 901 00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:33,520 So we are providing that we have the infrastructure that the data 902 00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:37,000 asset itself and we hope to make it ubiquitous. 903 00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:42,600 That's pretty awesome. You know, I think, I think you 904 00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:45,320 guys are on track the feature wise. 905 00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:49,280 I think you've got so much in the road map that you could 906 00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:52,160 deploy on, and I think that your biggest challenge is going to be 907 00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:56,000 what do I prioritize? Yeah, 100%. 908 00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:57,320 Yeah. We talk about a lot of things. 909 00:49:57,320 --> 00:49:57,600 Really. Yeah. 910 00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:01,520 Wouldn't it be great if you had a Toximap app on your phone so 911 00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:04,400 that you got just like you get a lightning, a lightning strike 912 00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:08,440 proximity alert, you're like, hey, you're, you're within 1/4 913 00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:11,560 mile of a Superfund site. Yeah, OK. 914 00:50:11,640 --> 00:50:15,400 That's good to know. Another really interesting use 915 00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:18,520 case could be institutional investors, you know, 916 00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:23,840 mortgage-backed securities and even financial market data 917 00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:27,440 platforms, you know, having this data feed, you know, as a 918 00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:30,040 decision part of their regression models or whatever. 919 00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:35,400 The data are so pertinent to so many levels of society and 920 00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:38,040 business. So it's it's really exciting. 921 00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:39,400 No, no. OK. 922 00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:42,920 So one thing we didn't cover though was how much does it cost 923 00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:44,800 to be a user? We got to go through there. 924 00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:47,120 I mean, we can't end the program without that. 925 00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:54,840 So, yeah, yeah, sure. We for right now the pricing 926 00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:59,320 model is very simple. And for now the cert the to 927 00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:04,440 search 1 address is about 1999 and we have bundles for 928 00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:07,400 organizations or individuals depending on what the purpose is 929 00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:10,640 to have higher volume searches at a lower price. 930 00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:14,440 So it goes up. And of course we'll we also have 931 00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:18,800 licensing kind of options as well that will be individually 932 00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:21,000 priced according to the the partnership. 933 00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:25,080 So that's the basic right now. And yeah. 934 00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:30,600 Well, I think there's a few lab contacts I want to connect you 935 00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:33,840 with that could be good for you that, you know, you might be 936 00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:37,360 able to use them as plug insurance at some point to offer 937 00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:39,520 the service. I mean, unless you already have 938 00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:41,760 them, but there's some people that are probably interested in 939 00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:43,920 that. Yeah, environmental consultants, 940 00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:47,920 I mean, if there is a consulting firm that feels they're going to 941 00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:51,880 use our data or platform to I know with Peter, he, you know, 942 00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:56,680 using one address search on Toxie map could save him 4 to 8 943 00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:59,240 hours and searching for that data for a client. 944 00:51:59,240 --> 00:52:02,440 So you know, if there's a consulting firm that needs, you 945 00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:06,560 know, just a lot high volume of address searches for sure that 946 00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:10,440 could save them, you know, save them a lot of money on their 947 00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:16,120 back on their PNL. So we come up with deals that 948 00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:19,720 benefit everybody, right? We want to help our B to B 949 00:52:19,720 --> 00:52:22,920 customers really benefit from the product. 950 00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:26,360 Have you started to attend any conferences, environmental 951 00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:28,880 conferences, to present this product anywhere? 952 00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:32,040 Because that's where your audience is going to be going 953 00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:35,560 for the most part to. I mean, Peter, you know this as 954 00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:39,520 well as I do, but you know these guys, they, they go to a lot of 955 00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:43,400 conferences, they listen and see presentations. 956 00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:49,000 You know, the sale cycle of a lot of this takes time, but you 957 00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:53,640 know that could be a really good venue for you expanding into the 958 00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:57,040 environmental market. Yeah, it's on the, it's in the 959 00:52:57,040 --> 00:52:58,960 plans as well as healthcare conferences. 960 00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:01,440 Yeah. So you're right. 961 00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:04,640 So I know there's, you know, there's an annual brownfields 962 00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:09,920 conference that we were looking at going to, you know, this sort 963 00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:14,280 of functional functional medicine and, and other unique 964 00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:18,840 ways of of sort of holistically addressing health issues. 965 00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:20,760 There's some great conferences about that. 966 00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:24,440 Of course, we hear it in the news about people thinking about 967 00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:26,960 PFAS, if you think about healthiness, all sorts of 968 00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:30,400 things, right. So I think the sort of ground 969 00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:35,000 level consciousness of these things is really is rising and 970 00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:38,400 we're here for it. Well, this is great. 971 00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:41,480 You know, Deb, Peter, thanks for coming on to the show. 972 00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:44,040 We really appreciate your time today. 973 00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:49,400 And, and I like what you guys are doing with Toxie Map and you 974 00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:52,600 know, hopefully the listeners will dive into this and and take 975 00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:57,360 a look at the the application. We welcome your or any of their 976 00:53:57,360 --> 00:53:59,200 feedback. If any of your listeners want to 977 00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:03,280 test it out and ask, ask questions or share ideas and 978 00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:07,080 feedback, they find some bugs. We welcome it all. 100%, yeah, 979 00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:10,200 yeah, absolutely. Well, that. 980 00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:12,200 That's great. Yeah. 981 00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:15,560 Well, yeah, I mean it does. It takes, it takes a lot to go 982 00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:19,880 through and identify, you know, workflows and user experience 983 00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:21,680 and you know, all that good stuff. 984 00:54:21,720 --> 00:54:23,160 So. Yeah, we have an exciting 985 00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:26,760 version 3 coming out in the next few weeks, which is really, 986 00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:33,000 we're adding landfills where we're making the UUX way simpler 987 00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:36,000 and you basically get a whole dashboard on one screen instead 988 00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:37,520 of having to click back and forth. 989 00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:41,480 That has a lot of very exciting to us features. 990 00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:43,120 So we'll let you know when that comes out. 991 00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:47,480 Please do and, and maybe tag me when you hit a release and we'll 992 00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:50,120 push it out to to our audience as well. 993 00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:53,800 But you know, this is great. I, I wish you guys the best of 994 00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:56,320 luck on this. And you guys are got something 995 00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:59,320 here that I don't know. I haven't come across another 996 00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:02,160 product like it yet. So, and I've been seeing, I see 997 00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:06,000 a lot of technology, you know, and tools and, but this is a 998 00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:09,440 good one that caught my eye and, and thanks for meeting with me 999 00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:11,400 today. Thank you and thank you for your 1000 00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:13,200 great work with this podcast. It's a great. 1001 00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:13,840 Thanks so much. Yeah. 1002 00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:16,600 Well, thank you very much, Dad. Appreciate that. 1003 00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:18,720 OK, we'll talk to you guys soon. Thank you. 1004 00:55:18,720 --> 00:55:20,560 All right. Thanks for listening and 1005 00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:22,880 watching the show. If you enjoyed the show then 1006 00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:25,560 please share it with your friends and coworkers on social 1007 00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:27,720 media and tell somebody in person. 1008 00:55:28,240 --> 00:55:30,080 Thanks for being with us, ET Nation.