1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,120 And I'll tell you in this environment, that status quo 2 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,200 decision is one of the biggest mistakes an organization can 3 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:08,680 make. As I've been kind of working 4 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:11,400 with teams, the biggest challenge is that if there's no 5 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:15,600 compelling reason aligned to the biggest risk, then the default, 6 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:19,280 the kind of action is no action. I'd say over the last 25 years, 7 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:22,640 this is the most complex environment any executive has 8 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:25,560 had to manage. And so to try to apply 9 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:29,240 yesterday's solution to today's problems, it's one of their 10 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:31,680 biggest challenges. Now they end up at the no 11 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:33,640 decision because they don't know what to do. 12 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:36,880 Welcome to the Environmental Transformation Podcast, where we 13 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:39,200 bring you interviews with industry leaders, climate 14 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:42,640 champions, sustainability practitioners, EHS and hazmat 15 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:45,560 professionals making an impact in their businesses today. 16 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:48,880 Each leader solving complex challenges and delivering 17 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:50,920 solutions within their areas of expertise. 18 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:54,360 I'm your host, Sean Grady, and thanks for joining us today. 19 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:58,080 Before we jump in, make sure to follow us on your devices and 20 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:02,560 visit my website at www.seankgrady.com and sign up 21 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:05,000 for our newsletter and e-mail announcements. 22 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:07,560 Now let's get started. Welcome to the Environmental 23 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:10,760 Transformation Podcast. I'm your host Sean Grady and 24 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:16,720 today's guest is Rohil Khan. Rohil is the CEO and President 25 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:20,400 of Avant AI. He's scaling people intensive 26 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:24,480 technology, enabling B to B services and their platforms 27 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:28,760 through growth and discipline and discipline M&A efforts over 28 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:33,440 20 years, leading multibillion dollar HR, healthcare, banking 29 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:38,360 and business process outsourcing services with the direct 30 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:42,560 accountability for commercial strategy, sales execution and 31 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:45,680 PNL management. He's built and scaled global 32 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:49,120 shared services and AI automation capabilities to drive 33 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:53,920 margin expansion, delivering 20 plus percent of compound annual 34 00:01:53,920 --> 00:02:00,520 growth rate and 2 1/2% plus times the EBITDA growth through 35 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:04,120 operating discipline, technology enablement and acquisitions. 36 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:08,680 He's got a proven track record in the PE backed and sponsored 37 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:13,080 and has sponsored owned environments, leading 38 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:16,200 integration of 10 plus acquisitions and building high 39 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:20,000 effective, low ego execution oriented leadership teams. 40 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:24,560 Yeah, it's a little mouthful just trying to run through this 41 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:26,280 here. But there's one last point I 42 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:29,200 want to hit though, because this is how we connected. 43 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:33,200 You're also an executive consultant for Corporate Visions 44 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:36,440 and that's a leading provider in science based revenue growth 45 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:41,120 services for sales, marketing and customer success teams and 46 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:45,320 providing great training and and education for sales leaders 47 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:47,960 across the country. So, Rohil, thank you for joining 48 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:49,760 the show. No, it's my pleasure. 49 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:53,680 Well, you know, we had a great opportunity. 50 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:57,040 I had the great opportunity of sitting into a sales class with 51 00:02:57,040 --> 00:02:59,480 you a couple about a month ago now. 52 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:02,480 I guess it is. And I was fascinated by the 53 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:03,960 training. It's probably the best training 54 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:06,400 I personally have been through. And I just want to let our 55 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:09,200 audience know, hey, if you're looking for great training, he's 56 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:11,480 the guy. But here's here's some stuff 57 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:16,280 that I wanted to get from out of Rohil in a conversation because 58 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:20,400 I think everybody in this sales environment needs to hear these 59 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:23,800 things and these tactics. So I wanted to start out if we 60 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:28,880 could, Rohil, many people, it's kind of like they get their 61 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:32,640 ideal opportunity, you know that in that elevator pitch. 62 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:35,640 So if you just give me a minute here to kind of frame this 63 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:38,600 question, I think it was it'll may help us dive in. 64 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:42,600 You're a sales professional, you're struggling to land that 65 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:46,400 meeting with the CEO or sales executive, you know, or I mean 66 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:50,160 AC suite executive. And let's imagine that you're 67 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:54,800 managing a large account and you're on your way to the office 68 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:57,240 to meet your sale, your procurement officer. 69 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:01,800 And just by happenstance, you meet the CEO on the elevator. 70 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:06,600 Now, most of us probably go, Oh my gosh, this is the CEO I've 71 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:10,960 been trying to nail. So this is that a quit. 72 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:13,760 This the quintessential elevator pitch. 73 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:17,240 We all kind of like dream about this opportunity, I think at 74 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:19,959 times in our life. But how important is it for a 75 00:04:19,959 --> 00:04:23,520 salesperson? Always be prepared for this type 76 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:25,760 of an encounter. You know, what should they be 77 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:30,200 able to communicate to the CEO in that brief 2 or 3 minutes 78 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:33,360 that they have with them and what should they walk away with 79 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:35,920 from that encounter? And I think, you know, I want to 80 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:39,280 hit this because we went through this exercise and trading it was 81 00:04:39,280 --> 00:04:42,360 pretty powerful. No, I think it's a it's a great 82 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:45,040 situation and it's a situation that's totally unpredictable. 83 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:47,280 You don't know when it's going to happen and in today's 84 00:04:47,280 --> 00:04:50,920 environment, it's the frequency of that happening is a lot less 85 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:53,760 than historically it's been. So when the opportunities 86 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:55,640 present themselves, you've got to take advantage. 87 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:58,120 So a couple of things that you got to be thinking about. 88 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:01,160 First and foremost, you've got always got to understand what's 89 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:04,400 happening at your client, not at the operating, what I would call 90 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:07,320 the dual level, but also what's happening at the executive 91 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:10,080 level, meaning if it's a public organization, why are they in 92 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:12,400 the news, What's going on? What are their initiatives? 93 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,440 What are the most important things that are happening that 94 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:17,520 would be relevant to the CEO and the CFO? 95 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:20,960 Because at the end of the day, your pitch has to resonate with 96 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:23,000 the key decision makers of the organization. 97 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:25,560 And that's really two people, the CEO and the CFO. 98 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:29,120 So if I happen to be the CEO that you ran into, the things 99 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:33,360 that I'd be looking for is your interaction has to be memorable. 100 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:36,560 And why is that? Because I got too many things to 101 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,840 focus on. So being memorable means align 102 00:05:39,840 --> 00:05:43,800 it to the biggest risk that I have, meaning you've got to 103 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:47,120 highlight something that's knowledgeable and insightful and 104 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:49,680 from your viewpoint, but it relates to the biggest risk that 105 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:51,160 I'm trying to manage within the business. 106 00:05:51,280 --> 00:05:55,400 That's number one. Number two, it's got to be a 107 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:59,720 fact based measurable interaction, meaning it can't be 108 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:02,800 a series of acronyms and motherhood and apple pie 109 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,720 statements that don't mean anything and don't differentiate 110 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:06,520 you. If you were going to be 111 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:10,720 measurable, memorable, you have to be differentiated because I 112 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:14,720 talk to hundreds of people a day if I'm the CEO and those 113 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:17,960 conversations in one ear out the other, unless there's a reason 114 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:20,800 for me to pay attention, risk is the one reason I'm going to pay 115 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:23,840 attention because the risk is related to the organizational 116 00:06:23,840 --> 00:06:25,280 performance that I'm accountable for. 117 00:06:25,280 --> 00:06:28,760 So you've got to tie to a risk the most important one. 118 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:31,240 You've got to talk about something that's provocative and 119 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:33,800 insightful, that's usually with the complexities of the 120 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:36,360 environment we're dealing with something like an external 121 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:39,840 factor or some event that's that's going to impact, either 122 00:06:39,840 --> 00:06:42,480 accelerate the risk or impact performance. 123 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:46,120 And then the last thing that you want to be able to do is you've 124 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:49,440 got to be able to engage me. It's no point just talking at 125 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:52,080 me. You want to talk with me, which 126 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:53,840 means there needs to be a conversation. 127 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:56,640 The only way I'm going to start to talk is if it's something 128 00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:59,200 insightful and interesting that causes me to lean in. 129 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:03,000 So that's that's a tall order in a minute and 1/2 or two minutes. 130 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:05,840 But your preparation is going to be the key that allows you to 131 00:07:05,840 --> 00:07:08,480 actually hit that and hit that out of the park. 132 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:12,160 And then ultimately the follow on is whenever you have a kind 133 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:15,120 of a transitory meeting like this, you're angling for a 134 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:17,800 follow up meeting, you're angling for something else. 135 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:20,600 So at the end, you what you want to close with is that's 136 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:22,920 fantastic. I'd love to grab 15 minutes. 137 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:25,120 I'll work with your EA or however you want to do it, but 138 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,240 you want to make sure that there is a compelling reason for me to 139 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:30,960 give you the most precious thing I have, which is additional 140 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:33,240 time. Right now that that's really 141 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:35,480 good. I mean, you know, it's being 142 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:39,520 provocative and memorable. You know, is, is, is probably a 143 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,480 challenge for some people, you know, and I think, you know, 144 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:46,680 coming up with some interesting fact that is going to shock him 145 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:51,280 a little bit or go, oh, wow. And I think being prepared 146 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,560 always on the ready, I guess is, you know, if you know your 147 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:58,520 account and you know that business really well, you should 148 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:03,920 be able to adequately do or, you know, deliver a quick elevator 149 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:07,640 pitch with any of the the various C-Suite people you're 150 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:11,040 looking for. But I do think that there is 151 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:14,320 some challenges and, and I think as salespeople, we kind of get 152 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:18,160 into this mindset of we're understanding what we do, but we 153 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:20,840 don't really try to think about, well, what do they do? 154 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:23,960 What's their responsibilities? And so it's, and I want to talk 155 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:26,920 about it's all about them mindset, right? 156 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:30,640 So talk about the mindset of ACEO, you know, and what their 157 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:33,960 jobs descriptions are, the CEO, the CFO and the CEO. 158 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:37,000 Because a lot of times when you encounter that person, I don't 159 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:39,000 think we're thinking about, well, what are their 160 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:43,200 responsibilities and how do I need to retrain or reframe my 161 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:47,400 messaging to meet their? Level yeah, no, it's a it's a, 162 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:49,720 it's a great point and I think you're absolutely right. 163 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:52,640 And you know, I've been AC level exec for 25 years and I even 164 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:55,560 trained my own teams, but I've also been approached by many 165 00:08:55,560 --> 00:08:57,000 other organizational sales leaders. 166 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:01,360 And it's shocking how frequently they talk about themselves or 167 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:03,080 they talk about their own organization. 168 00:09:03,560 --> 00:09:06,200 And I'll tell you, it's one of the biggest pitfalls of 169 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:09,360 interacting with AC level executive is, with all due 170 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:12,200 respect to the great things you as a sales leader might 171 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:15,200 represent for your organization, I don't care about those things. 172 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:19,360 What I care about is what your great capabilities can do to 173 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:22,200 accelerate my business performance and mitigate my 174 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:24,480 execution risk. Those are the only reasons I 175 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:27,760 actually pay attention because that's the mandate I have to 176 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:30,720 represent for the organization. If I'm in ACEO or CFO or COO 177 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:35,760 role, my goal is to operate in a way that drives business 178 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:38,040 performance. So what I'm looking for are 179 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:41,640 individuals that can either help accelerate that performance or 180 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:43,960 mitigate the risk associated with that performance. 181 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:48,920 And so the challenge is a lot of times people focus, so they're 182 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:51,040 so excited about here, here's the great things we're doing, 183 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:52,600 here's the great products we have. 184 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:57,080 All of that unfortunately doesn't resonate with competent 185 00:09:57,240 --> 00:09:59,920 Cxos. What it does is it gets you 186 00:09:59,920 --> 00:10:02,800 delegated down into the organization at the dual level. 187 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:06,720 So when you're talking to that executive exactly as you said, 188 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:11,080 you have to understand what drives their performance, what 189 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:15,160 are the initiatives or the the strategic pillars that they are 190 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:18,280 focused on, what's driving their day-to-day interaction and 191 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:20,800 ultimately what drives and gets their mindshare. 192 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:24,000 If you're not connecting to that, then you're not 193 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:27,200 connecting, period, because that's go ahead. 194 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:31,480 Yes what's a good way for a person to find out that 195 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:34,160 information like what makes them tick, what's driving their 196 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:37,960 decision is and what's important to them, You know, you know, 197 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:41,840 knowing the difference between the type that the roles of these 198 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:45,160 C-Suite executives with CEO they're I think you know, 199 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:47,160 they're mostly focused on strategy. 200 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:50,920 How do we grow and maintain our business, the CF OS, how much 201 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:54,840 money are we making and how can we continue to operate at a high 202 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:57,480 level, you know, a profit? And then the, the CEO is like, 203 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:00,400 how can we just keep the wheels running on this thing, right? 204 00:11:00,680 --> 00:11:04,320 And and, you know, successfully deliver, You know, I think that 205 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,400 mindset is important, but how do we find that information out if 206 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:09,760 we're trying to figure this out? No, that's a great question. 207 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:13,240 There's a lot of ways to do it. Think let's say your client is a 208 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:16,600 publicly listed organization. The 1st place I would go is I 209 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:17,840 would go to their earnings calls. 210 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:21,320 I would look and track their earning transcripts because if 211 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:23,880 you listen to the earnings calls, it's good information, 212 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:25,400 but you miss too much information. 213 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:28,600 I've always coached my team. They look get a copy of the 214 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:31,440 transcript of the earnings call and they're sites like Motley 215 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:34,400 Fool and Seeking Alpha that easily get you access or the 216 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:36,840 investor relations sites of the actual client. 217 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:39,600 They'll give you the podcast, they'll give you the transcript, 218 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:40,800 they'll give you the presentation. 219 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:43,640 Those are three critical things to take a look at because 220 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:47,360 organizations that are public, on every earnings call, the CEO 221 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,520 talks about strategy, he talks or she talks about the key 222 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:51,640 initiatives that they're focused on. 223 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:52,960 They'll literally tell you what that is. 224 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:55,280 Following that conversation, it's ACFO. 225 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:57,160 They talk about financial results, they talk about 226 00:11:57,160 --> 00:11:59,600 critical KP is they're achieving, and then they talk 227 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:01,760 about the risks. So if you're paying attention 228 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:05,560 just to those three kind of areas of focus, the podcast, the 229 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:08,960 presentation material and the transcript of the call, you've 230 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:12,880 got a big leapfrog jump into actually understanding what they 231 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:15,840 care about, what their priorities are and what risks 232 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:17,720 they're trying to manage. Because literally they'll tell 233 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:20,600 you what they are. And in addition, in addition to 234 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:23,640 that, what is very powerful with the transcript of the call is 235 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:26,600 there is a, there's AQ and a section for all of the analysts 236 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:30,200 that are actually asking questions once the call results 237 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:31,840 are shared. And that is fantastic 238 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:35,800 information for you as a seller to understand what are the key 239 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:38,600 areas that even the analysts are starting to find either are 240 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:41,640 working or not working. And now how did those problems 241 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:44,960 or opportunities relate to your ability to accelerate those 242 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:47,880 opportunities and mitigate those problems which ultimately are 243 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:50,680 risk related? Yeah, no, that's, that's good. 244 00:12:50,680 --> 00:12:55,040 So there's good information to be obtained through these these 245 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:58,760 sources of, you know, of information that's out there 246 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:00,480 through the earnings calls and whatnot. 247 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:03,400 And I think that's a great place to find them. 248 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:07,120 And so it does take a little preparation to figure that out. 249 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:11,800 Do the research, be prepared. Hello ET Nation, I want to thank 250 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:13,360 you for listening to the podcast. 251 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:15,240 If you're enjoying the interviews we bring you, 252 00:13:15,560 --> 00:13:18,600 consider supporting the program by visiting my website at 253 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:21,560 seankgrady.com and buy me a cup of coffee. 254 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,480 Proceeds will go towards helping me continue producing timely 255 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:27,160 content and offset production costs. 256 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:30,360 I'd also like to take a moment and recognize a few of our 257 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:34,040 sponsors of the show who have been amazing partners and our ET 258 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:36,920 Nation legends. 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But you know what? 297 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:52,360 When we get into trying to figure out how do we actually 298 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:59,040 make these companies consider, you know, the services we want 299 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:00,880 to offer them if we're a salesperson, right? 300 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:05,520 So let's talk a little bit about this concept of the no decision 301 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:09,920 obstacle because I think we all find this in our daily kind of 302 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:14,200 sales and jobs and environment as we try to engage customers. 303 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:18,200 You know what the research indicates that 40% of prospects 304 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:21,320 ultimately stick with the status quo instead of making a buying 305 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:23,320 decision. And then from your perspective, 306 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:27,840 why is no decision often a bigger competitor than the other 307 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:31,360 vendors in the market? It's, it's a great question. 308 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:35,800 I would tell you that one of the real reasons that the no 309 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:40,120 decision shows up so frequently is the pitch that's made by the 310 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:44,240 sales executive doesn't resonate, isn't compelling 311 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:48,560 enough, doesn't highlight areas of risk or opportunity 312 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:51,440 materially enough to make a difference around performance. 313 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:54,240 So if I'm an executive and I look at what's actually 314 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:57,640 happening and somebody pitches something to me, but there's no 315 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:02,120 compelling urgency, there's no compelling risk, then my choice 316 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:04,880 is either I can keep doing what I'm doing and I don't have to do 317 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:08,560 anything differently, or I'm going to take a chance. 318 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:11,880 But there's no real quantification of what the, the, 319 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:15,880 the real value is or the real outcomes are that that I'm going 320 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:17,520 to take advantage of or I'm going to need. 321 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:20,680 And I'll tell you in this environment that status quo 322 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:23,720 decision is one of the biggest mistakes an organization can 323 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:26,200 make. As I've been kind of working 324 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:28,920 with teams, the biggest challenge is that if there's no 325 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:33,120 compelling reason aligned to the biggest risk, then the default, 326 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:36,880 the kind of action is no action. But as I said, this is an 327 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,920 environment over the, I'd say over the last 25 years, this is 328 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:43,680 the most complex environment any executive had to manage in. 329 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:49,200 So to try to apply yesterday's solution to today's problems is 330 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:52,000 one of their biggest challenges. Now they end up at the no 331 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:53,960 decision because they don't know what to do. 332 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:56,400 So if I don't know what to do, I'll keep doing what I'm doing. 333 00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:58,720 That's the opportunity for the sales leader. 334 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:01,440 Yeah, right. I mean, I think in this day and 335 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:05,520 age with technology and how fast things are moving in this space, 336 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:10,640 you know, AI is, is affecting how businesses respond or 337 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,240 actually just work and function as a company. 338 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:16,720 It's got to be difficult to make some bigger decisions, 339 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:19,440 especially around making systematic changes. 340 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:22,560 I mean, you know that I think the big challenge a lot of 341 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:26,960 companies will face is the quote UN quote management of change. 342 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:31,680 You know, the fear of management of change is what I really want 343 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,880 to say, which is probably why the obstacle of no decision is 344 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:38,640 is use theirs because as they got the fear of management of 345 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:39,920 change and they don't want to do it. 346 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:42,760 Yeah, they don't. And I'll tell you, you know, and 347 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:45,720 that's where the sales opportunity becomes so 348 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:49,280 materially differentiated potentially if you as an 349 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:52,240 organization or as a sales leader have done the research, 350 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:54,280 if you understand what the biggest challenges they are, if 351 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:57,400 you've done research on their key competitors, because that's 352 00:18:57,400 --> 00:18:59,680 a great course of insight. All of a sudden now you're 353 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:03,280 pulling together a viewpoint that's anchored in data that 354 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:06,520 relates to work that you as an organization has already done 355 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:08,560 for organizations like your target client. 356 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,480 Now you're starting to set the pathway for them to take action. 357 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,320 As we said, the no decision is because I don't know what action 358 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:16,640 to go. Maybe I want to make a decision, 359 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:19,840 I just don't know what to do. And if no one helps guide me 360 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:22,680 through that conversation, then I'm stuck not really knowing 361 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:25,640 because you can't ask a client, especially the executive, to 362 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:27,760 take a chance on something they've never seen or done. 363 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:29,640 They're not going to take that chance because that's going to 364 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:31,720 affect their career and potentially their job. 365 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:36,160 What they want is the ability to hitch their wagon, as it were, 366 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:39,120 to an organization that's been there, done it, navigated it, 367 00:19:39,120 --> 00:19:41,480 solved it, and that's where the trust comes. 368 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:45,440 So if I'm going to take a leap, I wanna leap where a place where 369 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,040 I can get a soft landing, and that soft landing is the 370 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:50,800 organization that's competent, that's done it before, that 371 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:53,800 understands the problems and the risks and knows how to navigate 372 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:55,600 them. That's great insight there. 373 00:19:55,600 --> 00:20:00,480 That's really good. A lot of times sales reps, we 374 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:03,120 get caught in the commodity trap. 375 00:20:03,120 --> 00:20:05,360 Let's talk through this a little bit because I think a lot of 376 00:20:05,360 --> 00:20:08,760 people won't realize they get suckered into putting being put 377 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:11,840 into that position without realizing they're in there. 378 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:16,360 You know, many sales teams focus on the identity, on identifying 379 00:20:16,360 --> 00:20:19,720 their needs and, and the prospects already know what you 380 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:21,560 know, what they have as far as these needs. 381 00:20:22,120 --> 00:20:25,520 But that leads to this commoditization conversation. 382 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,640 And how can a seller break the cycle of finding? 383 00:20:29,360 --> 00:20:33,840 I'm sorry, the cycle to find an unconsidered needs versus you 384 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:37,440 know what they already know they have through this process of 385 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:40,560 kind of educating the buyer. What did you think of this? 386 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:43,080 Because this is how our capabilities can come into play 387 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:45,320 and help. Yeah, no, it's a great question. 388 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:49,160 I I would say one of the best things to understand when trying 389 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:52,800 to figure out where is the gap or the flaw that your client 390 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,960 isn't taking advantage of. It's taking a look at what are 391 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:58,520 the, you know, there there in today's environment. 392 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:01,280 When you think about AI, you think about global supply chain 393 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:04,920 challenges, tariffs and trade, geopolitics in terms of, you 394 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:08,960 know, conflicts that are happening, global warming, 395 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:11,400 demographic changes. And I could rattle off another 396 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:15,640 10 to 12 factors that are impacting organizations at the 397 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:17,680 global level. You want to be able to 398 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:21,400 understand what's the most important factor that's now 399 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,920 impacting the target executive you're focused on what's 400 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,880 impacting the role or the initiative that they're actually 401 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:31,120 accountable for. All of a sudden that becomes the 402 00:21:31,120 --> 00:21:34,000 way to get their attention. Now, once you get their 403 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,080 attention, you've got to continue to tell the story. 404 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:41,080 And that means here's the the way I can de risk that issue in 405 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:42,960 terms of that initiative that you're focused on here. 406 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:45,960 Based on that de risking, here's how I can actually help you 407 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:50,400 achieve what your CFO or CEO are talking about in terms of top 408 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:53,480 line growth, global expansion. What are those major initiatives 409 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:55,760 are at the top of the house that drive the strategy of the 410 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:58,800 organization? If you don't do that and it's 411 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:01,440 not interesting, it's not relevant, what happens is you 412 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:04,120 get delegated down to the doer level of the organization. 413 00:22:04,120 --> 00:22:06,480 Once you're at the doer level of the organization, like 414 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:09,360 procurement as an example, they'll say, look, that's real 415 00:22:09,360 --> 00:22:10,240 great. That's right. 416 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:12,520 How about the best price? Yeah, you. 417 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,040 Give me the best price because everything else is above my pay 418 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:17,400 grade. I'm I'm incentive to squeeze you 419 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,080 to get whatever price I can. So my preach is going to be, 420 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:22,520 hey, we like your stuff. But five other people said they 421 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:24,440 can do this. What are you going to do to cut 422 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:25,560 your price? And all of a sudden you're in 423 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:28,920 this commodity dust spiral because you're being 424 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:32,400 commoditized and kind of pushed to to match pricing because 425 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:36,040 nobody understands the innate value that the old capabilities 426 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,920 can drive for the organization, which in almost all instances 427 00:22:39,120 --> 00:22:41,840 far exceeds whatever savings they're going to try to squeeze 428 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:43,480 out of you. And I think that's the the 429 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:48,960 challenge is, is changing the the conversation around price to 430 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:53,320 value, right like, and So what are some specific like research 431 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,800 tactics Rep can take that, you know, to find the problem that 432 00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:00,720 the CXO just hasn't they don't even know they have. 433 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:05,280 So first and foremost, it's understanding the nature of your 434 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,520 organization as a sales leader and what are all of the 435 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:10,120 problems? What are all the challenges you 436 00:23:10,120 --> 00:23:13,000 guys are solving? Overall, a client is usually 437 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,880 focused on a singular or a binary set of issues because 438 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,120 they're limited to their industry, they're limited to to 439 00:23:19,120 --> 00:23:22,320 a certain certain vertical. They've got limited kind of 440 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:24,280 purview in terms of the things that they're focused on. 441 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:25,880 So they don't get to, they know what they know. 442 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:27,480 The problem is they don't know what they don't know. 443 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,680 Now as a sales leader, most organizations aren't single 444 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:34,560 threaded in, in a single geography or a single category 445 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:36,400 or single vertical. So all of a sudden you have 446 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,600 experiences across different clients and different issues 447 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,400 with different problem sets with different industry verticals, 448 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,400 etcetera. And you get to see what I would 449 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,200 call a, a kind of a plethora of issues that you as an 450 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,520 organization are solving. So all of a sudden now that's 451 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:53,200 number one, which you have insight and variations of 452 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,560 problems that you're solving as an organization that a singular 453 00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:59,000 client will never see or will never operate on. 454 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:00,440 So there's some insight that's there. 455 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:04,440 The second thing I would suggest is the ability to do some 456 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,840 research and leveraging your AI tool of choice, a perplexity, a 457 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:11,760 Gemini, a gunk, whatever it is that you use to start to assess 458 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,560 a detailed set of prompts that start to triangulate to those 459 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:17,240 sets of problems. So what I'm talking about would 460 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:22,800 be things like, you know, an example of a prompt that I've 461 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:26,520 used in the past with my teams is I assume a third party 462 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:31,200 persona of a strategic partner, like a McKinsey partner as an 463 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,720 example. So in the in the prompt, it says 464 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,720 you will act like a senior McKinsey partner in automotive 465 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:44,160 and you're you've been hired by Ford to figure out how the 466 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,600 organization that the sales leader belongs to can help them 467 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:52,880 accelerate their core strategies and mitigate their market risks. 468 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,800 And then a series of kind of drill downs that relate to the 469 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:57,960 research you've done that says, look, I listened to the earnings 470 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,520 call, here were the three strategies here are their 471 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:01,800 biggest risks that they talk about. 472 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:06,880 So that research now informs the nature of the prompt that you're 473 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,440 going to use as you start to do that further research. 474 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,640 And what you're doing is you're assessing public data, 475 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,400 competitive data, looking at market performance. 476 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,600 It allows you to synthesize information at a level and at a 477 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:20,560 depth. It takes way too long and most 478 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:22,480 people don't have the capability to do well. 479 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:24,040 AI has helped change the game for that. 480 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:29,440 As long as you focus in on being thoughtful and detailed with 481 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,800 respect to your prompts, it can generate a lot of good insight. 482 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,480 And that insight now combines with what you know about the 483 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,880 client and that target persona, and it becomes a way for you to 484 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,200 start to really dig into those insights overall. 485 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,200 Yeah, it arms you with the right information to make that 486 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,960 compelling conversation real, right? 487 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:50,360 I mean, that's great. Well, let's let's dive into a 488 00:25:50,360 --> 00:25:53,880 little bit of this concept of, you know, the preparation and 489 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,280 the strategy of things. And I think one of the one of 490 00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,800 the questions I would have for you is, you know, from an 491 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:04,720 executive lens, Rohail, having served as an executive at Xerox 492 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,600 and Bank of America, you've seen the high stakes pitches from 493 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:09,960 buyers. For the buyer side, what's the 494 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:13,720 single biggest preparation mistake you see sales teams make 495 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,480 when they finally get that meeting with the C-Suite? 496 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:20,200 The biggest mistake they make is they talk about themselves. 497 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:22,200 They talk about their product, they talk about their 498 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,840 capability, and they're totally ignoring the reasons why they're 499 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,960 in the room. The reason you're in the room is 500 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:32,600 to engage the executive. What does every C level 501 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,360 executive care about? They care about organizational 502 00:26:35,360 --> 00:26:38,360 performance, which is accelerating the performance 503 00:26:38,360 --> 00:26:41,160 goals they have and mitigating performance risk. 504 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:44,120 Why do they care about that? Because if the organization 505 00:26:44,120 --> 00:26:47,080 performs, they get paid. It's as simple as that. 506 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:51,400 So if you show up in the room and it takes you 25 minutes to 507 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:55,320 start talking about the ways you can help me de risk performance, 508 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,200 trust me, you've lost me at minute 5 because I'm not paying 509 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,920 attention. I, I can tell you over the 25 510 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,720 years that I've been AC level exec, I see pitch after pitch 511 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:09,960 after pitch and I'm shocked at how infrequently the 512 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:14,080 organizational leader who's making the pitch focuses on the 513 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,080 client first. They focus on themselves. 514 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,280 They're great product, their footprint, their number of 515 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,240 people, their, their IP, etcetera, etcetera. 516 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,120 Honestly, I don't care about your stuff. 517 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,960 I care what your stuff can do for me in terms of accelerating 518 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:31,440 performance and mitigating performance risk. 519 00:27:32,120 --> 00:27:34,920 So it sounds like, yeah, that that's, that's focus, not 520 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:38,840 focusing on them and, and basically not even addressing, 521 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,080 you know, the, the, the big issues that they are really 522 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,560 concerned about. I mean, waiting 25 minutes into 523 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,560 a presentation to finally get to what's important to them. 524 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,000 That seems to be a long time like you mentioned. 525 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,880 And, and you know, there's this, there's some stats on this where 526 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,240 they'll pay attention, people will pay attention like in the 527 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:00,040 first couple minutes of a presentation and they'll 528 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:04,200 remember about 100% of that. And they miss about the vast 529 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,160 majority of conversation until the very end, right? 530 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:08,920 And then they'll remember that part. 531 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,440 But that's, that's a little bit of this, the concept of that, 532 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:17,040 the hammock storytelling, you know, process you described in, 533 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,680 in your presentations during the sales training. 534 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,680 But, and it does resonate with you because you want to have a 535 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,800 really good, compelling conversation and, and why the 536 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,640 company should consider you and you understand their business, 537 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:31,440 the whole explanation of how you're going to do that. 538 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:33,960 That's kind of when they go, oh, I don't know, this sounds great. 539 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,920 And then at the end, you better hit them with, here's the most 540 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:40,840 important part. And, and I think you need to, we 541 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:44,360 need to be able to phrase and prepare our presentations that 542 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:45,960 way. It is. 543 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,000 I'll tell you the you said something is really important, 544 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,320 right? The inability to align to the 545 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,680 priorities that an organization has is one of the biggest 546 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:56,640 sources of failure. It's not hard to find that 547 00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:58,720 information. Literally a minute of Googling 548 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,200 and a minute of research will give you that information. 549 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:04,760 So there's no excuse for situations that where I'm 550 00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,080 sitting across the table from a sales leader and they say, hey, 551 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,200 we'd love to help you out. What are your biggest problems? 552 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:10,840 What are your strategies? What are your priorities? 553 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,720 Don't go in there with that question because it's like you 554 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,920 already know that information. I mean, that's a train wreck set 555 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,880 of questions because what that tells me as a sales leader, as 556 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:23,240 as an executive is you're totally unprepared and you want 557 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:25,680 me to do your job. Yeah, OK, that's good. 558 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:28,520 All right, well, here's here's another one here, here's another 559 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:31,760 great. I think the you phrasing as a 560 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,320 weapon. This one I really when I, you 561 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,800 know, start thinking about it, it is something that I think 562 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,480 really transforms a conversation. 563 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:45,280 So you advocate for you phrasing to transfer ownership to the 564 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:47,400 buyer. How does changing we can help 565 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:52,680 you to what you'll be able to do fundamentally change the power 566 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,480 dynamic at the at the C-Suite pitch well it. 567 00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:00,400 Oh, important one, it's a, it's a slight nuance, but it's an 568 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,400 important distinction because what it does is it starts to 569 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:08,000 paint the picture of how the organizational performance can 570 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,200 benefit, be benefited or accelerated or the risk 571 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,000 mitigated in an environment where I now I'm starting to 572 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,240 visualize what is it going to look like? 573 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,720 How's it going to feel for my best customers or my 574 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,000 constituents or whoever the stakeholders are that I serve as 575 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,240 an industry? Because now I'm starting to 576 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,640 visualize what that looks like and what that performance is 577 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,320 going to be and the contrast between what it's going to be 578 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,680 versus what it is. That's the thing that starts to 579 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,440 gain energy and starts to gain alignment. 580 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,520 It's, Oh my God, look at the challenges we're dealing with 581 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:40,560 now. But it can be like this, which 582 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,480 is exactly what we're trying to achieve or exactly what we use 583 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:45,560 as a leadership team we're trying to drive overall. 584 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:49,480 So that that slight change in framing allows me to start the 585 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:53,320 channel and visualize what it is that's going to happen versus 586 00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:57,520 the same old me we pitch that everybody else is going to have 587 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,400 when they follow in, you know, 3 sales leaders will follow. 588 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,720 You are going to say, effectively, we're trying to say 589 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,800 a lot of the same thing. Yeah, by by using this 590 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:10,280 application or this product, you will be able to da, da, da, da, 591 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,840 you can take advantage of, you know, the efficiency da, da, da, 592 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:15,680 right. I mean, that's kind of the put 593 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:17,400 them in the driver's seat concept. 594 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,960 I really like that and changing those words just I think they do 595 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,000 psychologically make a big difference. 596 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,720 They do because what it does is it puts them back in the 597 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:31,680 position of being able to drive the execution focus in a way 598 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:32,960 that today they won't be able to. 599 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:35,640 Right, right, right. OK. 600 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:40,120 Here's another pivot I think that salespeople may not get or 601 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,680 recognize on time and it's too late. 602 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,360 The EBITDA pivot. What Most reps talk about 603 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:50,840 efficiency and productivity, but when should a sale, a seller 604 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,960 stop talking about technical features and pivot to the 605 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:58,600 conversation towards EBITDA? You know cash flow, You know the 606 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,600 market expansion. Well, I'll tell you, they should 607 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,400 always be focused on that because when you start talking 608 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,320 feature, I call it speeds and feeds. 609 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,600 When you talk speeds and feeds, you're focusing down into the 610 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:11,160 organization. You're focusing at the door 611 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:14,320 level because the executives aren't the ones using the 612 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,080 dashboards or the Mac or the products or the services. 613 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,920 So when you talk speeds and feeds, you automatically are 614 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,720 under leveling at the, at the level of the CXO. 615 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:25,760 So they're going to push you down and you get stuck. 616 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:29,800 So when talking to a CXO, never lead with the how because that's 617 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,640 speeds and feeds. What you want to focus on are 618 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:34,880 the biggest risk. They have the biggest 619 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:36,120 initiatives that they're focused on. 620 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:37,960 That's the what and the why of the conversation. 621 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,840 If you, if you engage me in the what and the why, then you get 622 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:45,080 directed down to my team that I'm going to send you to. 623 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,640 But all of a sudden I as the executive, I have contacts and I 624 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:50,880 understand what the biggest risks are and I'll stay 625 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:54,760 connected to that directive that I've given you within the 626 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:58,280 organization that I have. It's always best to go with the 627 00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,920 C level executive and get directed down to the doors. 628 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:06,240 Then start at the doer level and try to work your way up, because 629 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,680 that's a That's a futile effort. Yeah, because like the lower 630 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:14,600 level management teams, they just don't have the stroke to 631 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:18,880 get that service or that decision to the higher level 632 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:20,920 CEO. They don't Now a lot of them 633 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,000 think that they have a lot more influence than they have. 634 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:25,760 I'll tell you and for your listeners, I'm sure everybody 635 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:29,120 can think about situations where they're they're talking to the 636 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:31,240 doers in the organization. All of a sudden the doer says, 637 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:33,040 Oh my God, and some dumb decision happened. 638 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:35,680 We have no idea why the the executives made that call. 639 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:38,560 They changed this vendor. They made this strategy because 640 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:42,360 they're not purview to what the business performance execution 641 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,120 challenges are and need to be there at the doer level. 642 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:49,840 They're just, they're executing and, and, and executors or 643 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,440 doers, they're insulated from a lot of that risk the 644 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:54,440 organization has in a lot of instances. 645 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:59,720 And so that you're just when you're talking, as I've shared 646 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,960 with my teams over the years, when you talk speeds and feeds 647 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:05,920 and you expect major decisions to be made, you're talking to 648 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:07,560 the right level and you're usually talking to the right, 649 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:10,480 wrong person. Yeah, exactly. 650 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:16,159 I mean, I think a lot of times sales people, they get stuck in, 651 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:18,840 you know, the arbitrary glass ceiling, so to speak. 652 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,480 You know, they've got a great relationship with the 653 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:25,120 procurement manager or the, you know, some of the OPS managers 654 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,960 or local presidents or whatever. But they can never break into 655 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:33,000 that next level. And for a lot of reasons, 656 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:35,320 they're, they're, they're sometimes they're kind of 657 00:34:35,639 --> 00:34:38,080 blocked, right? I mean, they are not going to 658 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:43,600 get it because they those people don't want you to have access to 659 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:47,840 the CEO or the CFO. What would you say or how would 660 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:52,600 you break that cycle or that you know that dynamic so you can 661 00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:55,639 actually get in front of the CEO and CFO? 662 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,240 What tactics would you recommend for that? 663 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,240 Yeah, Firstly, I think it's important for everybody to 664 00:35:01,240 --> 00:35:03,440 recognize and I've shared this with my team for decades. 665 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,920 I said never be confused that you're pitching to the person 666 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:08,520 across the table from you, because you're not. 667 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:12,080 You're building a story for two people in the organization, the 668 00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:14,920 CEO and the CFO. So what that means is you're 669 00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:17,640 always kind of levelling up the conversation. 670 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,720 So if I'm talking to the head of procurement, procurement doesn't 671 00:35:20,720 --> 00:35:22,920 own performance, They don't own revenue, they don't own 672 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,560 retention, they don't own engagement, they don't own any 673 00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:28,240 metric of performance that's talked about on an earnings 674 00:35:28,240 --> 00:35:29,280 call. But let's say you've got a great 675 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,000 relationship with the chief procurement officer. 676 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:35,080 What you want to do is Telegraph a conversation that's going to 677 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,080 be relevant to the CEO and the CFO. 678 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,720 Then all of a sudden, now the chief procurement officer can be 679 00:35:40,720 --> 00:35:43,440 the hero or the hero and of the story with to help the 680 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:47,240 organization perform. Now, if you're lucky enough to 681 00:35:47,240 --> 00:35:50,520 have a chief procurement officer who has some decent business 682 00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,160 chops, then you can guide them through the conversation you 683 00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:54,720 need to have. But you're, you're kind of 684 00:35:54,720 --> 00:35:58,360 always telegraphing up and telegraphing that messaging up 685 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:00,760 to the CEO and the CFO. So now it's a capable 686 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:03,240 procurement officer is available to you. 687 00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,480 He or she can then be the conduit through which that story 688 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:08,360 is told. But it's your story as an 689 00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:11,640 organization, you're enabling them to get great visibility. 690 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,720 The problem is, yeah, the problem is those types of 691 00:36:15,720 --> 00:36:17,800 people, unfortunately are few and far between. 692 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:20,560 So they're going to, as you said, appropriately, they're 693 00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:25,440 going to either purposefully or just innately block your access 694 00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:27,840 because they don't realize they're doing it because they're 695 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,240 either insecure or they want to make sure they're the gatekeeper 696 00:36:30,240 --> 00:36:31,960 that all of the knowledge flows through. 697 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:35,440 So what you've got to do then is leverage your executive team to 698 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,600 do some kind of a top to top kind of conversation where you 699 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,520 protect the relationship you have with that executive that 700 00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:44,720 you're dealing with and you have your executives come across the 701 00:36:44,720 --> 00:36:47,040 top. But I like what you mentioned 702 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:51,080 there about, you know, always projecting up that vision or 703 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:54,360 that strategy in your presentation. 704 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,160 And I think it, you know, where it really comes to play in is 705 00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:01,080 maybe you're putting together a large proposal, multi 706 00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:05,560 $1,000,000, you know, proposal for a large, you know, RFP And 707 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:08,720 you know, the proposals come comes to you and, and they're do 708 00:37:08,720 --> 00:37:11,400 they want price, they want your level of service, they want the 709 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:14,720 typical capabilities that you can, you can offer. 710 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:19,440 But in that, you know, I think those proposals, that's where I 711 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,840 think what you're suggesting is start to communicate in there 712 00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,440 what is important to the CEO, what is important to the CFO. 713 00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:30,120 Because if you do that, then at some point when those proposals 714 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:32,600 are going to be reviewed and they all will at some point at 715 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:36,800 certain levels of sign off, right, then, you know, the CEO 716 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:41,200 or CFO will eventually probably actually look at a proposal that 717 00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:45,200 comes through that's that level in that size because they're so 718 00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:46,600 expensive. That's a big deal. 719 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:49,720 It's a big decision. And the procurement officer 720 00:37:49,720 --> 00:37:55,520 won't have a lot of ability to control the narrative enough 721 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,680 because someone's going to have to read it, you know, above him. 722 00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:02,760 I think that's important conversation to think about when 723 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,800 you're doing these proposals because that would be a great 724 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,960 way to, if you're not, if you're struggling to get to the CEO, 725 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,760 you can get through possibly through that process. 726 00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:15,200 Yeah, no, you can. There's no question about it. 727 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:19,040 You always have to challenge your own thinking as a sales 728 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:22,120 leader to say and, and, and there's a simple litmus test 729 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,080 question I've shared with my teams over the years. 730 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:28,200 I said, and it's, it's 5 seconds of reflection that saves months 731 00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,240 and months of heartache. And it's as simple as this. 732 00:38:30,240 --> 00:38:33,680 Before you pitch, before you send an e-mail, before you sit 733 00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:37,600 in a finalist conversation, play through the the, the talk track 734 00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:40,200 you're about to share or the e-mail which you're about to 735 00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:42,280 share and ask yourself a very simple question. 736 00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:45,440 And that's as follows. Can my competitor say the same 737 00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:47,480 thing? If the competitor can say the 738 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:49,960 same thing, you're nowhere near as differentiated as you think 739 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,000 you are. And it's, it's going to come 740 00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:55,120 across like everybody else that says everything that's that you 741 00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:56,960 want to say or is already saying what you're said. 742 00:38:57,360 --> 00:38:59,120 So you're not differentiated at all. 743 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:00,760 And if you're not differentiated, you're not 744 00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:02,400 memorable. If you're not memorable, you're 745 00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:06,080 not going to win. Yeah, no, that's a great point. 746 00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:07,960 That's a real good point. Well, when you're trying to 747 00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:11,760 close business and you know, you're trying to, you're trying 748 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:15,160 to figure out where the value gap is with your 749 00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:18,000 differentiation, you know, in the market. 750 00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:20,160 Let's talk about this a little bit, if we could. 751 00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:22,840 The value gap or the value wedge? 752 00:39:23,240 --> 00:39:27,800 Corporate Visions defines the value edge as the intersection 753 00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:30,880 of customer needs and your unique defensible 754 00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:34,520 differentiation. How do reps typically fail when 755 00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:37,880 trying to identify their power position in that wedge? 756 00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:42,040 The the biggest reason they fail is again, they make it about 757 00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:44,440 their own stuff. They make it about the speeds 758 00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:47,280 and feeds conversation because, you know, let's say you're 759 00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:51,120 talking AI tools. Well, is it Chachi BT? 760 00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:52,960 Is it open AI? Is it Gemini? 761 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,360 Is it perplexity? All of these tools have a lot of 762 00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:59,000 similar capabilities. There's differences in nuances, 763 00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:03,000 models, but the uninformed buyer doesn't know the technical 764 00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:05,680 differences that exist. That's not something that 765 00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:09,240 they'll be able to speak to. But what they need to be able to 766 00:40:09,240 --> 00:40:13,360 do in terms of the value edge is understand that value edge is a 767 00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:17,200 lens that's squarely on your client, executive and their 768 00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:20,320 organization, not on you. The mistake people make is, 769 00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:22,720 well, my value is based on our capability. 770 00:40:22,720 --> 00:40:25,160 It's not. It's based on what your 771 00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:28,440 capabilities can do to accelerate the performance of 772 00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:31,360 your client and mitigate those critical risks that they're 773 00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:33,560 trying to navigate, those that they see or don't even see. 774 00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:36,160 That's the way you articulate value. 775 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:38,880 It's not about you or your product. 776 00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:42,960 It's about performance and it's about accelerating or mitigating 777 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:46,640 the risks or the opportunities if it's good or bad that you 778 00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:51,080 have the ability to impact. That's powerful, that's really 779 00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:52,720 good. That's a good thought process. 780 00:40:52,720 --> 00:40:54,920 I mean, I mean, that's, that's gold right there. 781 00:40:55,240 --> 00:40:58,800 You know, when you're trying to close these value or the value 782 00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,440 gap and you're presenting your differentiators, some of the 783 00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:08,440 ways you do that is through storytelling and talk about, you 784 00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:11,920 know, making the customer the hero in the journey while you 785 00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:15,240 act as the mentor. You know, in the practical sense 786 00:41:15,240 --> 00:41:20,160 of how does you phrasing bridge the emotional gap between a dry 787 00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:21,960 business case and a compelling vision? 788 00:41:22,720 --> 00:41:25,400 When you make it about you, what you're doing is you're making it 789 00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:27,240 personal. You're making it about the 790 00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:30,560 things that that executive owns, the initiatives that they're 791 00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:32,600 accountable for, the performance that they're going to be 792 00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:34,280 measured on. That's what gets their 793 00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:37,080 attention. Otherwise, if it's not about me 794 00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:39,960 and my performance or the organizational performance that 795 00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:43,160 I lead, then it's easy for me to disconnect and it's easy for 796 00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:46,200 things to sound like they're not very important because then it's 797 00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:48,600 a priority prioritization discussion for me, right? 798 00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:51,000 I know as an executive the things that are going to move 799 00:41:51,240 --> 00:41:53,880 the organizational performance because I also know the things 800 00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:57,480 that move my comp, right? There's a very Direct Line 801 00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:00,360 between organizational performance and executive 802 00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:03,400 compensation. And shockingly, executives 803 00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:05,120 behave like they're compensated to behave. 804 00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:08,600 No big surprise there. Just like everybody, you know 805 00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:12,480 that that that watches these sessions, they're all sales 806 00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:14,280 leaders that know exactly how they're comped. 807 00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:16,840 And that behavior is going to be determined by that comp 808 00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:19,320 structure. And so that value wedge and that 809 00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:23,240 you framing has to be aligned to the things that drive value for 810 00:42:23,240 --> 00:42:26,600 the organization, which by default enables that C level 811 00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:29,240 executive to gain the compensation that they're owed. 812 00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:31,160 Yeah, no, that that's really good. 813 00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:35,440 So weaving in some some stories about, you know, how they're 814 00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:40,400 going to be able to be the hero by solving these problems are 815 00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:43,440 are really good. That's really good to put them 816 00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:45,880 in that position when they're listening to how this is going 817 00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:47,960 to help them achieve their goals. 818 00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:50,120 Not your goals, their goals, right? 819 00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:52,760 It's always about them, not about us, right? 820 00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:57,960 We got to remember that the decision making process is quite 821 00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:00,840 complex when you think about it. There's lots of elements of the 822 00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:03,920 decision making process. And I think what's interesting 823 00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:06,560 about this is, you know, there's, there's, there's 824 00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:09,040 emotion involved, there's a logic involved, There's all 825 00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:11,600 kinds of things about maybe if you could talk a little bit 826 00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:16,680 about what sellers need to understand and what tactics can 827 00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:20,000 they use to close a deal through understanding these elements of 828 00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:23,080 decision making. I'll tell you at the executive 829 00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:26,960 level, the most important thing, and it's a simple thing, but 830 00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:29,760 it's a thing that's ignored almost all the time, 831 00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:34,760 unfortunately, is you have to anchor on the biggest risk that 832 00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:37,880 is going to impact the performance of that executive in 833 00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:41,040 the context of the organizational accountabilities 834 00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:43,320 that they have. It's the most important thing 835 00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:46,480 because risk is the only thing that gets elevated up in terms 836 00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:48,640 of importance. Everything else will get 837 00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:52,960 delegated and pushed out. You know, if there's and, and 838 00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:55,880 that risk is the most important thing because the risk is the 839 00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:59,000 one thing that can derail an earnings call. 840 00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:01,760 It can derail performance of an organization, it can derail a 841 00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:05,040 career. If I'm an executive and it took 842 00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:09,080 me 25 years to get to that role, my goal is to stay in that role. 843 00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:12,320 And what that means is I got to manage all of the risks that I 844 00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:15,800 see and those that I don't see. So I got to depend on strategic 845 00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:17,560 partners to help me see the unseen. 846 00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:22,960 So understanding those risks are key in this process, but when 847 00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:26,320 you're, you know, kind of when you're presenting what you can 848 00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:29,640 do to help them manage those risk, you're really hitting on 849 00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:32,640 like their emotions, like, you know, because it's a decision 850 00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:35,200 they got to deal with. You also, you know, you want to 851 00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:38,880 like, I guess contrast the, you know, the positive, negative 852 00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:42,840 things or show some visuals that to make them think like, because 853 00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:45,360 there's a journey they have to go through to make a ultimate 854 00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:47,440 decision. This isn't just like, OK, yeah, 855 00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:48,840 I'd like your product. I'm done. 856 00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:51,880 No, you there's a little more process involved to to make 857 00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:54,920 somebody really feel like, OK, they want to make that decision. 858 00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:58,280 And I think there's a lot of elements in that showing them 859 00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:01,440 the path to to success is how to do it right. 860 00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:03,760 There's no question about it. And you touched on something 861 00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:06,360 that's important. It's the contrast between the 862 00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:09,080 environment that they're currently operating in and the 863 00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:12,520 environment they aspire to be in some point in the future. 864 00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:17,280 That sales leader has to be helping them understand that the 865 00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:22,840 challenges of today are so egregiously difficult and you 866 00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:25,560 can't stand still because the Mack truck is coming. 867 00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:28,560 And if you're standing still, it's going to be, it's not going 868 00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:30,680 to be pretty. So what you've got to do is 869 00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:32,560 you've got to demonstrate some motion. 870 00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:35,880 Most clients don't know what that motion is or needs to be 871 00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:37,800 because maybe they've never done it before. 872 00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:40,360 And that's where your sales pitch and it goes to your point 873 00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:43,040 around the visual. It's describing whether it's a 874 00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:46,040 story or a visual. Here's what it looks like today 875 00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:49,240 for your, your consider let's say you're, let's say you're 876 00:45:49,240 --> 00:45:52,560 talking to a hospital and you're talking about new technology 877 00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:55,080 that's going to drive better patient engagement and patient 878 00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:56,360 care. You don't want to talk about, 879 00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:59,360 hey, we got a cool portal and we got these cool little chat bots. 880 00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:02,240 No, you want to talk Here's what your patient deals with today. 881 00:46:02,240 --> 00:46:04,960 They'd spend 5 months trying to get an appointment. 882 00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:08,080 Then you come into the doctor's office and they got 900 pages 883 00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:10,640 that they got to fill out on a, on a, you know, flip chart 884 00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:13,440 somewhere and. And then they get passed on to 885 00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:16,680 their friend and their friend and their other doctor friend 886 00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:19,000 before they finally get to the person's going to help them. 887 00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:21,000 There you go. And then so that's that's the 888 00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:22,800 current environment, the status of our current. 889 00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:25,080 Health care system, right? There, well, there you go. 890 00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:27,960 And and that's any executive understands because they've all 891 00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:31,800 been patients, they can identify with that situational context. 892 00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:36,320 And then you paint the picture of in the new world or post this 893 00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:39,160 effort, here's what patient engagement is going to be. 894 00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:41,560 It's going to be an automatic outreach to them. 895 00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:43,920 Appointments already going to be set. 896 00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:46,480 We know they like coming in on a Saturday morning or a Friday 897 00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:48,760 afternoon. That's the intelligence of the 898 00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:51,840 system that now is going to preemptively engage that 899 00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:55,480 patient, route them directly to that physician or a clinical 900 00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:58,600 care office that is going to be aligned to their knee. 901 00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:02,920 But it's at contrast in what happens that becomes memorable 902 00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:05,080 because they got to go back to the example of your chief 903 00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:07,040 procurement officer. He doesn't know anything about 904 00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:09,440 patient care. That's not his job, but he can 905 00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:12,680 easily tell that story. You can easily you connect with 906 00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:15,240 executives they here's how different that's going to be. 907 00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:17,400 Yeah, and you've emotionally connected with them at that 908 00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:19,480 point too, in that scenario. That's really good. 909 00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:24,040 You know, another another way that you described the buying of 910 00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:27,920 a of a product and services and reason why you're helping them 911 00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,680 kind of address a risk or and mitigate something. 912 00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:34,680 There's this concept of leveraging the prospect theory 913 00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:39,440 and, and it's this Nobel Prize winner, Daniel Common conman. 914 00:47:40,240 --> 00:47:45,360 He found that people value avoiding a loss twice as much as 915 00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:48,240 an equivalent gain. And how should a seller 916 00:47:48,240 --> 00:47:53,240 articulate the cost of inaction and tap into the psychology 917 00:47:53,240 --> 00:47:56,960 without surrounding, you know, sounding overly negative if 918 00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:01,240 presenting inaction is, you know, not the best? 919 00:48:01,240 --> 00:48:03,120 And that's why you want to make this decision. 920 00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:06,680 Yeah, it's a great point. And Daniel Kahneman viewed this. 921 00:48:06,720 --> 00:48:09,560 In fact, he was a sociologist that won the Nobel Prize in 922 00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:11,320 economics. But because of that decision 923 00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:13,960 theory focus and there's research was very much focused 924 00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:17,440 on a simple truth. They said, look, risk is 925 00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:21,680 immediate, so you get compelling interaction immediately. 926 00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:28,000 An opportunity or a future event is at some point into the 927 00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:29,520 future. It may never happen. 928 00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:31,320 If it happens, it could be protracted. 929 00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:35,480 So the sense of loss is associated with risk, which is 930 00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:38,480 immediate. The opportunity of a gain is 931 00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:41,680 some point into the future. If I'm an executive, I'm I may 932 00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:44,600 not be around to get that gain 3 years from now, or two years 933 00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:48,520 from now, or even 6 months from now if I don't manage the risks 934 00:48:48,720 --> 00:48:50,640 that are immediate. So what would that? 935 00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:52,120 Look like. What would that look? 936 00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:54,760 Like Rohil, when you when you if you're going to present that, 937 00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:57,520 it's kind of a scenario. Do you have an example of what 938 00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:00,280 that could sound like to? You know customer. 939 00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:03,040 So I'll, I'll tell you. So you know, I, I do a lot of 940 00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:05,360 work in banking. So let's look at a situation 941 00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:07,080 with, you know, wealth management. 942 00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:11,800 So today, if you look at the data just in the US, the baby 943 00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:15,960 boomer segment of the US is has somewhere between 80 to $83 944 00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:19,440 trillion of wealth contained within that that demographic 945 00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:21,480 group. That's a ton of money and that 946 00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:24,520 concentration of wealth will never happen again in multiple 947 00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:27,560 lifetimes. So if I'm leading wealth 948 00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:29,960 management for, let's say, a large bank or wealth management 949 00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:34,440 firm, I need to understand how much of that money is moving 950 00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:37,000 every year. According to the research, Baby 951 00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:41,520 boomers are going to have about 20, call it 20 to 22 years to 952 00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:43,560 manage the transition of that wealth. 953 00:49:43,720 --> 00:49:46,920 And that happens when they retire, when they unfortunately 954 00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:49,840 pass on the fact of life. Well, then their assets get 955 00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:51,360 transitioned to their beneficiaries. 956 00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:53,760 Yeah. If I'm in wealth Management 957 00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:56,560 Today, if I'm a managing director of an organization's 958 00:49:56,560 --> 00:50:02,080 wealth management firm and I have no idea who the, let's say, 959 00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:05,120 Sean, I don't know who your kids are and you're a high net worth 960 00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:07,600 individual. Well, how do I actually engage 961 00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:09,440 you then? How do I know you should be 962 00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:12,120 somebody I'm engaging? Because I don't even know that 963 00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:14,520 you've got X amount of money and it's going to transition to 964 00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:16,360 your, your, you know, dependence. 965 00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:19,920 And So what do I do? I wait for you to, to, to 966 00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:23,240 transition the money and then it goes to your sons and daughters. 967 00:50:23,240 --> 00:50:25,880 And all of a sudden I'll be lucky if they come to me because 968 00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:30,040 it's all chance unless I change that and say, look, I know 969 00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:32,200 that's the dynamic of what's happening in wealth management. 970 00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:36,280 So what am I doing to gain intelligence around my current 971 00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:38,960 customer base? The customer segments I want to 972 00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:40,640 go after, Like I live in Chicagoland. 973 00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:44,800 Winnetka is one of the the most affluent suburbs in the US, in 974 00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:48,440 fact, in Illinois as well. So if I have 5 clients in 975 00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:51,280 Winnetka, which is the North Shore of Chicago bordering Lake 976 00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:54,520 Lake, MI, and I know they have this kind of a profile. 977 00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:57,760 I want to do a quick pull of everybody else in the zip code 978 00:50:57,760 --> 00:50:59,680 who has a similar demographic profile. 979 00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:03,280 And then I want to do some targeted outreach and say, look, 980 00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:06,520 we're helping organization, we're helping clients like you 981 00:51:07,240 --> 00:51:10,360 do this to manage, sustain and grow wealth and transition that 982 00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:12,280 wealth. We'd love to talk to you about 983 00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:14,360 how we can help you do the exact same thing. 984 00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:18,240 But there's a level of, I would call it hyper personalized 985 00:51:18,240 --> 00:51:19,960 outreach. You know the segment, you know 986 00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:22,040 what they're behaving, you know how they need to behave. 987 00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:25,840 Those are things that allow you to start to be much more 988 00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:30,040 thoughtful about what is now notice and not none of this in 989 00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:33,320 the last four or five minutes I didn't talk about great, you 990 00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:38,520 know, investment return or 5% interest versus 8% on bond. 991 00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:42,120 I'm not talking about the stuff or the mechanics of the products 992 00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:44,520 and services that a wealth management firm has. 993 00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:47,680 I'm talking about, do I understand where the market is 994 00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:50,920 moving and where that risk is associated with people who have 995 00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:54,040 the concentration of wealth that are ideally my target clients? 996 00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:58,240 And helping them understand that, you know, by making a 997 00:51:58,240 --> 00:52:01,840 decision now, they don't take the risk or they could, they 998 00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:05,040 don't have to, you know, be at a, you know, have exposure 999 00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:06,400 really to their wealth. Exactly. 1000 00:52:06,720 --> 00:52:09,400 They they get to achieve what they want to have, which is 1001 00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:11,640 potentially passing on that generational wealth. 1002 00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:13,520 Yeah, that's exactly what it's all about. 1003 00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:16,440 That's good. You know, we'll also talk about 1004 00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:20,280 telling details versus superlatives in a presentation. 1005 00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:23,240 You know, research shows that telling details, buyer focused 1006 00:52:23,240 --> 00:52:27,000 and specific data outperforms general superlatives in 1007 00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:28,760 credibility and likelihood to purchase. 1008 00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:33,320 So, can you share an example of how specific detail can be can 1009 00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:36,800 mitigate a buyer's fear of implementation risk? 1010 00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:39,880 You know, again, this, this is a critical point because what it 1011 00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:42,600 does is don't hit me with motherhood and apple pie 1012 00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:44,360 statements. Don't give me with generality. 1013 00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:46,520 Oh, we've helped a lot of organizations save a lot of 1014 00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:47,800 money. That means nothing. 1015 00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:50,720 And anybody can say that because they're not saying anything. 1016 00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:53,360 What you want to be able to say is, look, Rohit, we know 1017 00:52:54,080 --> 00:52:56,640 subscriber engagement is extremely important to you. 1018 00:52:56,640 --> 00:53:00,400 In fact, we've helped organizations retain subscribers 1019 00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:04,680 anywhere from X to Y percent and that's generated subscription 1020 00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:07,800 growth of A to B dollars. You want to give a range of 1021 00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:12,960 value that's meaningful, that's specific, that's I call it. 1022 00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:16,680 You have to help the executive size, the prize, help them 1023 00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:19,840 understand the impact of what it is that you can generate and the 1024 00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:23,480 value of what that is. Generalities and what I call 1025 00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:26,360 motherhood and apple pie commitments mean nothing because 1026 00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:29,880 you're not seeing a thing. Yeah, now that's, that's good. 1027 00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:32,880 Be specific. Give them the the focus details 1028 00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:36,600 of of the the solution and how it's going to help them. 1029 00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:39,440 That helps them instead of just saying, hey, we can do this like 1030 00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:41,440 anybody else. Yeah, I get that's a great 1031 00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:42,960 point. And I think a lot of people get 1032 00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:47,600 caught in that trap and not really articulating the value 1033 00:53:47,720 --> 00:53:50,040 and and the the proposition of that that they have for the 1034 00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:55,240 buyer. Reframing emotional anchors that 1035 00:53:55,360 --> 00:54:00,160 are sometimes you don't, you don't know these anchors exist 1036 00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:03,840 when you're going into a presentation, you know, these 1037 00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:09,120 are these deep bed embedded, you know, emotional biases, so to 1038 00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:14,200 speak, that CFO or CEO may have for a particular reason. 1039 00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:18,440 So when a prospect is emotionally anchored to a risk 1040 00:54:18,640 --> 00:54:24,080 like fear or fail a failure, rational and logic often fail. 1041 00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:27,480 What is your process for using metaphors and analogies to 1042 00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:30,000 reframe the emotional objections during a pitch? 1043 00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:33,160 Well, I'll tell you, it's, it's all centered on the theme that 1044 00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:36,520 we've been talking about today, which is this whole idea. 1045 00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:39,840 If you have to align to risk, you're right, you may not 1046 00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:42,760 understand the baggage, the history of what that executive 1047 00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:45,960 has to deal with or has dealt with, and that's OK. 1048 00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:48,880 You're not supposed to be, you know, a mind reader, but what 1049 00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:52,720 allows you to align to that and understand it in the right way 1050 00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:57,440 is you've got to align to the risks that are represented for 1051 00:54:57,440 --> 00:54:59,360 that organization and for that executive. 1052 00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:03,240 The more you align to the risk, the more you can kind of 1053 00:55:03,240 --> 00:55:06,800 dovetail into whatever bias they have because their bias is going 1054 00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:08,800 to be, how the heck do I mitigate that risk? 1055 00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:11,480 Or I got burned before, I don't want to get burned again. 1056 00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:14,200 You may not know that past history, and that's OK, But if 1057 00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:16,760 you're aligning to the risk, that's the biggest risk that can 1058 00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:20,320 derail their performance. By default, you come in in a way 1059 00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:23,880 that is aligned to the way that they're thinking that they've 1060 00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:26,880 got to mitigate that focus. And they're waiting for someone 1061 00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:29,640 to help them. They're waiting for someone to 1062 00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:30,560 help. Yeah. 1063 00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:32,560 And, and, and it's, it's oh, my God. 1064 00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:35,360 He gets it or she gets it. That's exactly the issue I'm 1065 00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:37,280 focused on now. I'm paying attention. 1066 00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:40,880 He gets me there. You. 1067 00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:43,480 Go. All right, right here. 1068 00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:47,120 We're kind of winding down here. Rohil, I really appreciate your 1069 00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:50,080 time today. But the last couple here were 1070 00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:53,880 these real simple ones. What are the three deadly sins? 1071 00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:57,760 You know, when we talk about the three deadly sins of messaging, 1072 00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:02,080 what are they? Make it about you, make it 1073 00:56:02,080 --> 00:56:07,800 generic and have no compelling follow up or action that's 1074 00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:10,240 engaging or inside the The challenge is you have to be 1075 00:56:10,240 --> 00:56:12,760 insightful, you have to be provocative, you have to be 1076 00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:15,400 precise. That's right, that's right. 1077 00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:16,840 I love it. I love it. 1078 00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:20,720 Well, hey, if anybody listening wants to level up, get their 1079 00:56:20,720 --> 00:56:25,560 game on and and learn some more, I guess sales tactics and, and 1080 00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:27,480 become a better sales professional. 1081 00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:30,600 How can listeners learn more about sales training that you 1082 00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:32,120 provide through corporate Visions? 1083 00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:35,520 Well, Corporate Visions is 1. I would say it's one of the best 1084 00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:39,560 organizations I've come across in terms of their IP and their 1085 00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:41,120 approach. And it's very pragmatic. 1086 00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:44,800 It's not about theory alone. It's about how does theory 1087 00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:47,440 integrate into practice and drive results. 1088 00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:51,560 And I would encourage anybody to take, you know, reach out to 1089 00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:55,080 Corporate Visions, corporatevisions.com is the is 1090 00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:59,680 the web page and just, you know, highlight a request and folks 1091 00:56:59,680 --> 00:57:02,120 will be eager to get back to you and figure out ways that we can 1092 00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:04,600 help you guys increase and drive performance. 1093 00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:07,320 Yeah, this is really good. Rohil. 1094 00:57:07,320 --> 00:57:09,320 Thank you for coming on the show today. 1095 00:57:09,520 --> 00:57:13,040 Like again, the sales training that I experienced through 1096 00:57:13,040 --> 00:57:15,760 Corporate Visions with you was just amazing. 1097 00:57:16,200 --> 00:57:20,920 Learned so much more than I, you know, already kind of knew. 1098 00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:22,960 Obviously, I mean, everyone can learn, right? 1099 00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:25,840 We all start continuingly, continuously learning. 1100 00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:29,560 And you made me think about a lot of different aspects of the 1101 00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:34,080 sales process and especially in this new age of AI and how to 1102 00:57:34,080 --> 00:57:37,720 use these tools to become a better sales executive. 1103 00:57:37,720 --> 00:57:41,520 That's the big thing that it really helped me when I walked 1104 00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:44,640 away and thinking about the unconsidered, you know, 1105 00:57:44,640 --> 00:57:48,320 challenges and risks that executives have that we can help 1106 00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:52,080 identify what those are and mitigate those risks. 1107 00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:55,000 That was a big take away that I thought, OK, this is really 1108 00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:57,160 good. So, but I really appreciate you 1109 00:57:57,280 --> 00:58:00,240 coming on the show today and we're looking forward to getting 1110 00:58:00,240 --> 00:58:03,680 this out in the coming days. And really thank you. 1111 00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:06,800 It's all for everything you had. I appreciate, I appreciate that, 1112 00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:09,600 Sean, you take the take, take care and and hopefully we'll 1113 00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:11,560 talk soon again. Thanks for listening and 1114 00:58:11,560 --> 00:58:13,880 watching the show. If you enjoyed the show then 1115 00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:16,600 please share it with your friends and coworkers on social 1116 00:58:16,600 --> 00:58:18,760 media and tell somebody in person. 1117 00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:21,080 Thanks for being with us, ET Nation.