1
00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:01,960
Well, hi, everyone. 
Welcome back to the Trans 

2
00:00:01,960 --> 00:00:04,440
Narrative Podcast. 
I'm Caroline, and today I'm 

3
00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:08,039
joined with Kevin, also known as
Sky Spectrum. 

4
00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:12,360
Welcome back. 
Hello welcome everyone in the 

5
00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:14,800
lovely trans narrative podcast 
world. 

6
00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:16,640
Yes, It's so good to have you 
back. 

7
00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:20,320
Thanks for being here. 
And Jordan, Jordan, Jordan, 

8
00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:23,360
Jordan Braxton, welcome back. 
It's so good to have you. 

9
00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:26,040
Hey, hey, hey, hey. 
I'm glad to be back. 

10
00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:27,840
Thanks for having me back. 
What's up, world? 

11
00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:32,200
How you doing today? 
Yes, I need you. 

12
00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:33,720
I need your energy in my life. 
I love it. 

13
00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:37,600
Thank you for being here. 
And today, our very special 

14
00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:41,000
guest, it's Ryan Klinghammer. 
Welcome to the Transnative. 

15
00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:42,400
It's so good to have you. 
Thanks for being here. 

16
00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:45,480
Thank you for having me, really 
appreciate it. 

17
00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:49,400
Yes, absolutely. 
So before we get started, a 

18
00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:53,800
little bit about Ryan. 
Ryan is a dynamic community 

19
00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:57,640
leader, performer and advocate 
whose work uplifts and energizes

20
00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:00,760
the trans and drag king 
communities across the Midwest. 

21
00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:04,000
As the Director of Events for 
the Metro Trans Umbrella Group, 

22
00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:07,400
Ryan has played a key role in 
cultivating affirming spaces, 

23
00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:10,320
organizing inclusive 
programming, and bringing people

24
00:01:10,320 --> 00:01:12,760
together through celebration in 
mutual care. 

25
00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:16,560
With over 7 years of experience 
as a drag king under the stage 

26
00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:20,080
name Mars, Ryan brings both 
creativity and heartfelt 

27
00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:22,920
storytelling to every 
performance, using drag as a 

28
00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:25,800
vehicle for joy, resistance, and
visibility. 

29
00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:31,080
He currently holds the title of 
Mr. Trans Midwest 2025 and was 

30
00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:35,240
honored with the Mr. Trans USA 
Class of 2024 Outstanding 

31
00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:38,920
Advocate Awards for his tireless
commitment to uplifting trans 

32
00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:42,280
lives through advocacy, 
performance, and mentorship. 

33
00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:46,280
In addition to his pageant and 
nonprofit work, Ryan Cohost and 

34
00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:50,960
Co produces King Awakening, A 
vibrant monthly all drag king 

35
00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:54,360
show that features rotating 
themes and offers quarterly 

36
00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:57,920
workshops designed to nurture 
and empower new entertainers 

37
00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:00,840
entering the scene. 
His impact resonates through 

38
00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:04,680
every facet of his work, whether
on stage, behind the scenes, or 

39
00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:08,639
in community spaces where trans 
joy and liberation are centered.

40
00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:12,360
Ryan, thank you for being here. 
Thank you. 

41
00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:14,080
I'm going to cry. 
That was stupid. 

42
00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:26,200
That was really good. 
So beautiful. 

43
00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:28,800
All right, Hey everybody, and 
welcome back to the Trans 

44
00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:32,080
Narrative podcast. 
I am one of your hosts today, 

45
00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:34,800
Diet of Pepsi. 
Oh, or Jordan Braxton as I 

46
00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:39,000
known, let's say. 
Hey to everybody, the Caroline 

47
00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:43,080
and we're back with Kevin and of
course, our very accomplished 

48
00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:47,560
guest today, Mr. Ryan 
Klinghammer, who is Mr. Trans 

49
00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:49,680
Midwest. 
Welcome back everybody. 

50
00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:52,360
Hey, Ryan, how are you doing? 
I'm doing great. 

51
00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:54,480
How are you? 
Fine, fine, fine. 

52
00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:57,680
Now you know, here on the Trans 
Narrative Podcast, we tell the 

53
00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:00,840
story of trans people. 
So today we're going to listen 

54
00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:03,360
to your story. 
So I'm going to start everything

55
00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:05,880
off by asking you this very 
important question. 

56
00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:12,320
So what day were you born? 
Was it a Wednesday or Friday or 

57
00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:14,320
Tuesday? 
What time were you born? 

58
00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:17,160
Were you born in spring, summer,
winter? 

59
00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:18,800
Was it raining? 
Was it snowing? 

60
00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:20,440
Was it sunny? 
Was it hot? 

61
00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:24,520
Was it a tornado? 
Tell me what your early life is 

62
00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:27,600
like growing up. 
What was your childhood? 

63
00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:31,720
And just give us an insight into
what little Ryan was. 

64
00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:38,040
Like so I was born on December 
21st of 1998 in here in Saint 

65
00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:42,320
Louis and actually surprisingly 
for it being December, it was 

66
00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:47,800
not very cold at all. 
My part of my dead name actually

67
00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:52,360
came from roses that sprung up 
in the middle of December 

68
00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:56,840
outside of my parents rental. 
So that's where part of my old 

69
00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:00,680
name came from and it was just 
unusually warm. 

70
00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:05,760
And that kind of starts out my 
life. 

71
00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:10,840
I have lived a little bit of 
here, there and everywhere 

72
00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:13,920
starting in Saint Louis. 
That is where my family from is 

73
00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:15,680
from. 
That is where I currently live. 

74
00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:22,320
From there we moved to Buffalo, 
NY, for my mom's job and then 

75
00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:26,000
back to Saint Louis again after 
she left that company. 

76
00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:29,760
Then we were in Rantoul, 
Illinois, which is about 15 

77
00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:33,240
minutes outside of the Champaign
Urbana area where the University

78
00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:36,920
of Illinois is. 
And then when I was around, I 

79
00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:41,960
think 11 years old, my parents 
separated and divorced, and then

80
00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,000
I'm back in Saint Louis and 
that's where I've been since 

81
00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:46,320
then. 
All right, so, Terry, what was 

82
00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:48,080
it like? 
What was it like growing up, 

83
00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:51,120
first of all, in Saint Louis, 
and you mean the Buffalo was 

84
00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:55,280
that different atmosphere, 
different, different beliefs? 

85
00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:57,680
Tell us all about the the 
contrast. 

86
00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:01,240
Well, definitely different 
weather because we lived right 

87
00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:03,840
on Lake Erie, so we would get 
lake effect snow. 

88
00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:10,680
There's pictures of me at three 
and four years old at Halloween 

89
00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:16,240
standing in a pile of snow like 
I would just start coming down 

90
00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:21,360
in early October. 
Beliefs wise, go ahead. 

91
00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:26,760
You said sounds right, yeah. 
Yeah, but beliefs wise I was so 

92
00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:29,200
young I don't really quite 
remember there being such a 

93
00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:35,480
drastic difference. 
My parents were kind of semi 

94
00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:38,640
religious but not hardcore by 
any means. 

95
00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:42,600
My mom grew up Lutheran and my 
dad grew up Catholic. 

96
00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:48,200
So we had a lot of like 
underlying, you know, you have 

97
00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:50,880
your morals because of this. 
But that kind of carried through

98
00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:53,920
all throughout wherever we were 
living, wherever we were going, 

99
00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,200
until I kind of broke away and 
said I'm not doing this 

100
00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:01,600
religious stuff anymore, which 
still to this day bothers my 

101
00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:03,960
mom, But that's that's her own 
issue. 

102
00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:09,240
OK, So what was the what was the
one religious thing that that 

103
00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:11,640
was a proverbial shot about the 
camels? 

104
00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:19,160
Truly for me, my mom went back 
and forth between being Lutheran

105
00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:23,480
and then into non denominational
Christian churches and between 

106
00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,320
that and my dad's Catholicism 
background. 

107
00:06:27,840 --> 00:06:31,920
All of it started to be very 
hypocritical and it really 

108
00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:33,720
confused me from a young age of 
like. 

109
00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:37,800
Why? 
One part of the subsection of 

110
00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:40,600
Christianity was saying this is 
OK, but the other was not. 

111
00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:43,480
And this one is saying it could 
be nuanced. 

112
00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:45,960
And I just, I was at a point 
where I was like, do I even 

113
00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:50,240
believe in God? 
Like I don't really believe in 

114
00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:54,080
anything from a book of fiction 
personally. 

115
00:06:54,840 --> 00:07:00,840
And I, I want to say the biggest
thing was seeing the outright 

116
00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:04,720
homophobia and transphobia in 
churches of these people trying 

117
00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:08,240
to say, you know, love thy 
neighbor as you love yourself, 

118
00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:12,280
and yet they weren't. 
So what was your so Did you go 

119
00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:14,920
to public school, Catholic 
school, Lutheran's? 

120
00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:16,840
What kind of public education 
did you have? 

121
00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:19,960
Or I said I'm in public. 
I mean, what kind of education, 

122
00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:23,040
Private school, public school? 
What kind of kid were you when 

123
00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:25,400
you were in school? 
Combination of both. 

124
00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:28,600
I started out in public school 
and then went to Catholic school

125
00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:32,960
for a few years and then when my
parents split and we moved back 

126
00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:35,000
here to Saint Louis, then I was 
public school throughout the 

127
00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:39,800
rest. 
OK, were you were you a computer

128
00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:41,160
nerd? 
Were you athletic? 

129
00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:43,480
What did you wasn't an extra? 
Were you a cheerleader? 

130
00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:45,520
Were you an he was a theater? 
Kid. 

131
00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:51,160
A theater kid and a choir nerd. 
I was in two different acapella 

132
00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:53,920
groups. 
I was in our thespian troupe. 

133
00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:58,480
I was the stereotypical 
obnoxious theater kid. 

134
00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:03,880
Wow, so like, what was your 
favorite play that you were in? 

135
00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:09,080
I really like Damn Yankees. 
It was the one and only show 

136
00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:13,520
that I was ever cast in because 
our two directors were both 

137
00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:15,920
homophobic and transphobic. 
Oh my God. 

138
00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,560
Which is like with the 
background that I have. 

139
00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:24,000
I'm a train singer. 
I like was in, you know, theatre

140
00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:26,520
productions all throughout, you 
know, middle school and doing 

141
00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:32,080
community theatre. 
But truly, Damn Yankees is one 

142
00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:35,320
of my favorite shows that I have
ever been in. 

143
00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:39,120
I think the plot of it is really
fun. 

144
00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:42,960
I think I just really like that 
some guy sold his soul to the 

145
00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:45,200
devil just to play baseball and 
be young again. 

146
00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:49,040
Love that. 
So I guess it's your school? 

147
00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:52,000
There was no like high school 
production of Bakaja. 

148
00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:55,880
Fold in? 
No, but I think that would have 

149
00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:58,960
been really cool. 
That would have been amazing. 

150
00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,200
I. 
Would love to see a high school 

151
00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:02,680
production of Akash. 
Now. 

152
00:09:02,680 --> 00:09:04,960
If they can do Hairspray, why 
can't they do Akash see and? 

153
00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:07,640
We did Hairspray in my senior 
year. 

154
00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:10,000
Oh, really? 
Yeah. 

155
00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:15,040
My God, we love Hairspray. 
Yeah, we did the four major 

156
00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:16,680
musicals. 
We did my four years. 

157
00:09:16,680 --> 00:09:19,800
We did Footloose my freshman 
year, then Damn Yankees with 

158
00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:22,240
sophomore Annie and then 
Hairspray. 

159
00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:26,080
Amazing. 
Were you in all of those? 

160
00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:33,440
I was on technical theater 
support for Hairspray, 

161
00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:37,960
Footloose, and well, then, then 
the cast of Damn Yankees. 

162
00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:41,880
And then I had a situation 
happen where I was actually not 

163
00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:46,920
allowed to be in the theater and
any participation when Annie 

164
00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:49,360
rolled around because I got into
a physical fight with another 

165
00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:51,960
person. 
Spill the. 

166
00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:57,680
Tea, What happened? 
So for background, I came out as

167
00:09:57,680 --> 00:10:01,400
trans when I was in high school.
So I came out this summer 

168
00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:04,240
between my sophomore and my 
junior year. 

169
00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:06,880
And I was actually not the only 
trans person out. 

170
00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:09,680
There was about six of us who by
today's standards would have 

171
00:10:09,680 --> 00:10:15,280
been about trans mask. 
And I had this guy that we 

172
00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:18,840
started out as friends. 
And then I don't quite 

173
00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:23,880
understand what happened. 
Even today I don't, but he kind 

174
00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:32,800
of turned into a Dick and we got
into a physical fight because I 

175
00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:37,400
had been like stapling something
up to the call board that I 

176
00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:39,760
guess he thought was supposed to
be his job. 

177
00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:41,720
And it started out as a 
screaming match. 

178
00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:48,880
And I like it was opening night 
of our our winter show and he I 

179
00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:51,200
had like a dress shirt on and a 
tie on. 

180
00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:57,000
He grabbed me by the knot of my 
tie and pulled me in and I had 

181
00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:00,760
the stapler in my hand and so I 
beat him with the stapler to get

182
00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:04,360
him off me. 
Ryan, yeah. 

183
00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:12,960
And so even though I didn't 
start the fight, I didn't start 

184
00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:18,080
the altercation at all, the 
theater teachers both put us on 

185
00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:20,240
like a suspension from the 
theater itself. 

186
00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:24,440
So during that time I actually 
got into competing in slam 

187
00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:29,640
poetry and that was kind of my 
my spring off from the from the 

188
00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:32,320
shows. 
Oh, so you like you like poetry 

189
00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:35,200
slams then? 
I like them when they're good. 

190
00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:41,760
OK, so tell us what it was like 
coming out as trans in high 

191
00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:44,640
school and did you have any 
challenges? 

192
00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:47,520
It was difficult. 
It was definitely really 

193
00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:54,440
difficult. 
I didn't have the verbiage until

194
00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,480
I met my first other trans 
person, which funny enough was 

195
00:11:57,480 --> 00:11:58,800
the guy I got into the fight 
with. 

196
00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:04,040
Ohio, so like take us down that 
journey because to go from like 

197
00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:08,240
friends to them, like fighting 
and then like he's trans as 

198
00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:09,480
well. 
Yeah, wow. 

199
00:12:10,680 --> 00:12:15,480
So I my sophomore year I kind of
started playing around with, 

200
00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:21,000
with gender expression and at 
this time I identified with 

201
00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:25,080
being queer into like a lesbian 
leaning territory. 

202
00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:29,720
And as an adult and 
understanding what I, how I see 

203
00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:34,760
presentation now, I realized 
that I was leaning into being a 

204
00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:39,600
lesbian because that for me and 
in like my family dynamic was 

205
00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:42,720
one of the only ways to present 
masculinity on an A fat body. 

206
00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:47,640
So I was like a mask lesbian for
I would say almost a year. 

207
00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:53,920
And then I met him and he had 
just come out and I was like, 

208
00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:56,800
you know, that makes a lot of 
sense. 

209
00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:59,640
That makes sense is why I'm 
wearing 3 sports bras to keep my

210
00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:03,480
chest down and not feeling 
comfortable with being called a 

211
00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:05,520
feminine name or she her 
pronouns. 

212
00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:11,360
So I toyed around a little bit 
with, you know, different gender

213
00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:16,160
identities and different names. 
So I like, I liked the name 

214
00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,640
Skylark for a little bit. 
I am so glad I did not keep that

215
00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:23,240
name. 
Skylark. 

216
00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:28,360
Skylark. 
OK, I don't see you as a 

217
00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:30,920
Skylark. 
I don't see myself as a skylark 

218
00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:33,960
either. 
Granted this was like 1516 year 

219
00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:40,120
old maid. 
So and then I got to a point 

220
00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:44,920
where I I thought I was kind of 
non binary or at the time we 

221
00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:47,480
really didn't have the term non 
binary. 

222
00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:52,600
So gender fluid genderqueer 
would have been the closest that

223
00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:55,680
I thought I was. 
And I was, you know, looking at 

224
00:13:55,680 --> 00:14:00,000
how other genderqueer people 
online were presenting. 

225
00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:05,560
And a lot of it was very 
androgynous and, you know, 

226
00:14:05,560 --> 00:14:08,240
shifting back and forth. 
And for me, that just wasn't 

227
00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:11,880
fitting the vibe. 
I was only wanting to present 

228
00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:16,120
masculinely the entire time. 
And then I went, oh snap, I'm 

229
00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:21,240
just a tea boy. 
And so how would you identify to

230
00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:26,200
like right now? 
I like the term trans mask 

231
00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:29,280
personally. 
Like for the general public I 

232
00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:32,120
just say trans man or like a 
trans boy. 

233
00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:38,880
But I I particularly like trans 
masculine because I don't 

234
00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:43,400
necessarily identify with being 
a binary trans man but I don't 

235
00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:46,040
identify with being non binary 
either. 

236
00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:47,320
And I think. 
You know what? 

237
00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:49,360
I feel that. 
I feel that so much because, you

238
00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:50,800
know, I'm sorry. 
I hope I didn't interrupt. 

239
00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:51,840
You. 
No, no, you're fine. 

240
00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:54,360
I, you know, because I hate 
labels. 

241
00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:55,880
I really do. 
They're so tiring. 

242
00:14:56,240 --> 00:15:00,680
And you know, I was like, well, 
I'm just my gender's Caroline 

243
00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:04,640
and I thought if I had to label 
it, can I be like a trans non 

244
00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:07,840
binary woman? 
Like for me that just I was 

245
00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:12,800
like, you know, because I feel 
so fluid in my identity and I 

246
00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:16,040
just and I don't even like the 
term non binary, you know, I 

247
00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:21,880
just I feel like I'm, I used to 
say I was a I was just a person,

248
00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:24,520
experienced the universe, but 
now I realize, you know, I'm the

249
00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:27,320
universe experiencing a person, 
just me. 

250
00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:30,960
I love that. 
Yes, to each his own. 

251
00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:35,440
I love that. 
So why you were your early role 

252
00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:37,440
models? 
I have to think about that 

253
00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:40,600
because like, I'm going to be 
honest, like I wouldn't 

254
00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:45,160
necessarily say that like 
transitioning was traumatic, but

255
00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:48,840
I always do believe that the act
of being trans is it can cause 

256
00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:52,680
trauma. 
And for me that's like turned 

257
00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:56,640
off quite a lot of memories of 
like early transition and early 

258
00:15:56,640 --> 00:16:03,040
queerness. 
I didn't have very many trans 

259
00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:08,000
people to look up to like in 
general, like popular media, but

260
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:09,880
there was quite a lot of them on
YouTube. 

261
00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:16,360
So like some of the early role 
models that I, I do recall it 

262
00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:24,880
was like Skylar Kerrgel, Alex 
Birdie, Jamie Dodger, like those

263
00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:30,840
kinds of Youtubers that were 
there because they were some of 

264
00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:36,480
the most prominent out of all of
the like media that I could 

265
00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:43,160
find. 
So now I know you like we'll 

266
00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:45,280
just make it transparent. 
I know Ryan very well. 

267
00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:48,280
Ryan are really good friends. 
I miss trans Midwest. 

268
00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:51,760
He's Mr. Trans with West. 
We have another friend Wes who's

269
00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:55,560
MX trans. 
And so we're kind of like the, 

270
00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:59,720
we call ourselves team Midwest, 
team trans Midwest and we hang 

271
00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:01,720
out and stuff. 
So I know Ryan and Ryan. 

272
00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:05,520
I just curious, when did TRAC 
first enter your life? 

273
00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:08,240
Did it enter in high school? 
Was it later in life? 

274
00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:14,680
So I was aware of what drag was 
when I was in high school, but 

275
00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:18,599
actually I didn't. 
I didn't go to my first show 

276
00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:23,280
until my freshman year of 
college. 

277
00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:30,040
I was 18 and ended up at 
Attitudes which was a gay par 

278
00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:32,440
here in Saint Louis that 
unfortunately closed during 

279
00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:36,720
COVID, but they were 18. 
Plus you'd pay like an extra 

280
00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:39,320
part of your cover to get in if 
you were under 21. 

281
00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:47,120
And that was the first show I 
saw and I was just mesmerized by

282
00:17:47,120 --> 00:17:50,120
the 1st Drag king I ever saw, 
which was writer. 

283
00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:53,840
Love him, love him. 
Love him. 

284
00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:56,560
I actually just worked with him 
recently. 

285
00:17:56,560 --> 00:18:00,440
He was a guest on my show. 
I got to see him. 

286
00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:03,400
I got to see Noah Maserati Seal,
who was one of our like best 

287
00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:09,600
male leads here in Saint Louis. 
And I just became fascinated 

288
00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:13,200
with being a drag king. 
And it was actually not until 

289
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:16,360
almost another full year later 
that I would get up and do my 

290
00:18:16,360 --> 00:18:20,240
first open stage night. 
Do you remember what your first 

291
00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:25,160
song was? 
It was crazy equals genius from 

292
00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:28,440
Panic at the Disco and we got to
do 2 rounds. 

293
00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:30,920
So I did that for the first 
round and then I did Jessie's 

294
00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:33,160
Girl from Rick Springfield for 
the second round. 

295
00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:36,720
Not Jessie's girl. 
Yes, Jessie's girl. 

296
00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:42,720
So yeah, I ended up on my first 
open stage night a year after 

297
00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:46,040
seeing my first drag show. 
And I guess you could say the 

298
00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:48,480
rest is history, because here I 
am, seven years later. 

299
00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:52,800
You got bit by the drag bug. 
I got bit by the drag bug girl. 

300
00:18:54,120 --> 00:18:59,520
And so that like, I mean, I 
started out in drag as well and 

301
00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:03,480
then that kind of was like the, 
I call it drag was the gateway 

302
00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:08,800
drug to transition. 
Oh my God, go ahead, finish and 

303
00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:10,760
I'll tell you why I said Oh my 
God. 

304
00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:16,600
So. 
So how has drag informed your 

305
00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:20,840
identity? 
So for me, because I already 

306
00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:28,120
started transitioning before I 
got into drag, it's opened up a 

307
00:19:28,120 --> 00:19:30,960
new way of expression for me out
of drag. 

308
00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:38,960
So for me, I identify as like a 
gay and then I usually put in 

309
00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:41,320
parentheses yet vaguely 
bisexual. 

310
00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:46,880
Vaguely bisexual. 
Vaguely bisexual, like 

311
00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:51,960
predominantly gay but every once
in a while if the right kind of 

312
00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,080
like like I'm into masculine 
people and that's why I say 

313
00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:57,440
vaguely bisexual because I've 
dated non binary people. 

314
00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:01,040
I've dated like the only people 
I don't particularly date is 

315
00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:02,640
women. 
I'm just not, I don't find 

316
00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:06,120
myself attracted to them. 
But I try to keep my like labels

317
00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:11,360
open to be a little bit more 
inclusive so. 

318
00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:17,040
A lot of like what I do and what
I wear is based off of like sis 

319
00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:21,120
gay male culture. 
I pretty consistently wear 

320
00:20:21,120 --> 00:20:29,920
makeup and out of drag and find 
that I presenting effeminately 

321
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:34,600
masculine is like just exactly 
what I always wanted to do. 

322
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:39,000
OK, Jordan. 
Yes. 

323
00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:43,840
So when you said, Oh my God. 
So now I want to hear that 

324
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:46,480
story. 
Drag in your identity. 

325
00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:50,320
OK, so in my, when I was on the 
show and I told my story, I told

326
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:51,520
my story. 
How drag. 

327
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:55,400
It's the same way for me. 
Diana helped me become Jordan 

328
00:20:56,520 --> 00:21:00,040
because I I always wanted to be 
Jordan. 

329
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:04,360
I just didn't know how to do it 
because I came from a kind of a 

330
00:21:04,360 --> 00:21:06,280
religious African American 
family. 

331
00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:12,000
I thought I, I didn't, I knew 
drag, I knew trans women. 

332
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,640
I just didn't want to take that 
leap from Leonda Jordan. 

333
00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:19,960
So Diana took care of Jordan 
until Jordan was ready to 

334
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:23,280
blossom. 
So that's where I use, I use 

335
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:27,480
drag as an excuse and a way to 
put makeup on and wear dresses 

336
00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:31,400
until I one day just woke up and
said, OK, I'm just going to be 

337
00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:35,960
Jordan. 
I love that. 

338
00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:38,880
Yes, Thomas is like, oh, she's 
here. 

339
00:21:40,120 --> 00:21:41,720
Such a beautiful story. 
Well. 

340
00:21:42,120 --> 00:21:43,560
Thank you. 
Yeah. 

341
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:50,000
So yeah, I just said Diet. 
I said Leon protected Jordan and

342
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,080
then Dieta took over protecting 
Jordan and then Jordan finally. 

343
00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:58,120
Ryan, what have been some 
pivotal moments in your journey 

344
00:21:58,120 --> 00:22:01,800
of becoming like, some real 
moments where like, OK, this is 

345
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:06,200
it, I'm on the right path. 
It just got to keep going and 

346
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:12,360
move on. 
I would say I've had several and

347
00:22:12,360 --> 00:22:15,960
especially where I'm at in my 
journey now, I can look back and

348
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:22,480
pinpoint. 
So like in my bio, as Caroline 

349
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:24,920
said, you know, I'm the director
of events for the metro trans 

350
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:30,080
umbrella group. 8 years ago, I 
walked into a trans masculine 

351
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,000
support group for them called 
the Locker Room. 

352
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:41,320
And that was the first time I 
had seen other trans people that

353
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:45,840
looked like me, Like I, you 
know, I'm, I identify with being

354
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:52,680
like a plus size kind of guy. 
And none of the, none of the 

355
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,280
trans people that were around me
when I was in school looked like

356
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:56,680
me. 
You know, they didn't act like 

357
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:58,320
me. 
They didn't, they didn't dress 

358
00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:02,800
like me. 
They were all kind of little 

359
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:10,960
gremlin twinks, if you will. 
And so going to that first 

360
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:15,960
meeting set off this whole 
domino effect of where I am now.

361
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:21,920
So I, you know, just started 
going to the support group and 

362
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,920
then I became a volunteer for 
the organization. 

363
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,680
And then down the line, I became
the assistant to the previous 

364
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:33,040
director of events and worked 
with him until COVID hit. 

365
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:40,440
And then I got elected into my 
seat last April of 2024. 

366
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:50,120
And I can see exactly at that 
moment that was going into that 

367
00:23:50,120 --> 00:23:52,880
support group was where I need 
it to be and where it's got me 

368
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:56,720
to today. 
I would say going to that drag 

369
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,480
show is the reason why Mars is 
here today too. 

370
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,680
So it's like if you put it all 
on a timeline, it's funny enough

371
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,680
me going to the support group 
and me going to the drag show 

372
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,280
were connected because the 
people that took me to the drag 

373
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:11,800
show were people I met at group.
OK. 

374
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,400
That is amazing. 
I mean, yeah, the amazing, 

375
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:20,240
amazing was like it's really 
nice how that is like the found 

376
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:26,720
family that we all talk about. 
Like from the support to like 

377
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:31,960
supporting in every way. 
Like not just like here come 

378
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:35,560
experienced trans, but 
experienced trans joy. 

379
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:41,640
Exactly. 
Yeah, that that was me. 

380
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:43,480
That was really great. 
Yes. 

381
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:53,040
Like what most do you think 
helps you feel affirmed and seen

382
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:59,200
and really grounded your 
identity like helps you know for

383
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:06,000
like 100% certain this is you 
like you talked a little bit 

384
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,200
about I think before, but like 
if there is anything more 

385
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,200
specific that you're like 
thinking of. 

386
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:18,400
There still, I would say to this
day, there still aren't very 

387
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:20,200
many trans people that look like
me. 

388
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:27,200
And my biggest thing I like is 
to be that representation for 

389
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,040
somebody who was like me that 
needed that. 

390
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:37,280
But I just think being around so
many gay trans men has really 

391
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:43,160
helped because to go from being 
a lesbian to the complete 

392
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:49,200
flipped opposite spectrum of it,
it, it took me a while to like, 

393
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,760
you know, deconstruct gender and
sexuality from each other. 

394
00:25:53,120 --> 00:25:57,360
So I was like, oh, I'm going to 
transition to a boy that I guess

395
00:25:57,360 --> 00:26:00,680
that means I could be bisexual, 
but probably should date women. 

396
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:08,280
And being around other trans men
that like love men really helped

397
00:26:10,120 --> 00:26:14,520
and. 
So you know, last year you at 

398
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:22,960
Trans National Pageant, a Trans 
USA pageantry, you won and 

399
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:27,480
awarded the Advocate of the Year
award and that's given for the 

400
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,560
person who does the most 
advocacy throughout the year. 

401
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:36,320
So what led you to community 
organizing and advocacy for the 

402
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:42,680
community? 
It started really with being 

403
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:46,640
part of the March against the 
anti drag legislation. 

404
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,480
And granted, like I always have 
had a background in activism 

405
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,400
work. 
You know, I was part of my high 

406
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,640
school's walkouts for fair 
teacher wages. 

407
00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:01,120
That happened my senior year. 
And then you think the year 

408
00:27:01,120 --> 00:27:03,520
before that we had held a 
massive protest at our 

409
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,800
administrative building when 
they tried to cut funding to the

410
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,480
arts. 
So being in the room where it 

411
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:16,320
happens, so to speak, of making 
sure that justice is served has 

412
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,680
been something I've always 
wanted to be a part of. 

413
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:23,760
And so when the opportunity 
arose and the seat was open for 

414
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:26,720
the director of events, well, I 
already had the background of 

415
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:30,720
being the assistant. 
So I thought that it would be a 

416
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:37,840
great opportunity to get in 
there and rebuild what COVID 

417
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:43,320
took from M Tug. 
And I will say we have rebuilt 

418
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:47,680
significantly. 
So some of the events that I run

419
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:51,600
and some of the things that I 
do, we have a yearly trans and 

420
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:55,320
queer prom and last year we had 
the largest turn out we have 

421
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:59,760
ever had to the prom itself, 
which made me cry. 

422
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,200
And as Jordan has seen before, 
I'm very emotional. 

423
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,000
I'll just cry at the drop of a 
hat. 

424
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:07,720
She cries when her Mexican food 
is good. 

425
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:11,120
That's so true. 
Yeah. 

426
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:13,680
The sauce is just perfect 
texture. 

427
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:25,280
I always, and then I always say 
this, that my job is to create 

428
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,120
and sustain safe and affirming 
spaces for all trans and queer 

429
00:28:28,120 --> 00:28:30,000
people. 
And of course, that does extend 

430
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:34,080
into our other allies to of like
straight CIS folks. 

431
00:28:34,360 --> 00:28:37,480
Like if you're going to come in 
and be respectful, then I've got

432
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:44,680
a place for you to be. 
So creating that has been 

433
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:49,640
monumental for me. 
And then Jordan and I were the 

434
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,880
organizers together for the 
trance day of this ability March

435
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:58,240
that we had this year, which had
I think almost 300 people at it.

436
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:00,640
I thought they had almost 1000 
people in it. 

437
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:04,920
I know we had thought about a 
small crowd and then the crowd 

438
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:07,280
turned out to be phenomenal. 
Yeah. 

439
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:11,600
Yeah, far about far beyond our 
expectations. 

440
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:15,440
Which we're doing that again 
next year. 

441
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,320
We're doing it again. 
We're having another March. 

442
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:20,640
On the 29th of this month, don't
forget. 

443
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,000
On the 28th, don't forget. 
Oh, I won't. 

444
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,600
Oh girl, I won't. 
I've been there's a sign that 

445
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:32,640
Wes made because the day before 
the the teed off March, our 

446
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:36,600
other Co organizer, Jay worked 
out with bar PM, which is one of

447
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:41,240
our gay bars getting us space. 
And then several of the other 

448
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:45,680
gay bars donated money to all 
get us supplies to make posters.

449
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:50,120
So Wes made this sign that I 
wanted to carry during the 

450
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,880
parade or the the March, but 
somebody else grabbed it before 

451
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:58,000
I could. 
And it's the Missouri State flag

452
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:00,560
and it says show me state, show 
me love. 

453
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,120
So I'm going to try and track 
that down. 

454
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:06,720
Yes. 
I'd love that sign. 

455
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,480
That is powerful message. 
Yes, it is. 

456
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:16,600
It is. 
We also made one that references

457
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:20,440
Drag Race and it's got kind of 
like AI cut out a silhouette of 

458
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:24,280
Trump on there and says look how
fucking orange you look girl. 

459
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:30,080
Love it. 
Yes. 

460
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,640
So tell us about advocacy and 
pageantry. 

461
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:40,920
What is that like and how do 
they, how do they go together? 

462
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,160
And tell us a bit about Trans 
USA. 

463
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:49,360
Oh, OK. 
So I would say not every 

464
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:53,120
pageantry system has a 
background for advocacy, but I 

465
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,640
do believe most people that do 
any kind of pageantry system has

466
00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:01,080
some kind of want or drive to do
advocacy, especially most of the

467
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:06,560
pageantry systems for drag, you 
know, involve predominantly 

468
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:11,240
trans entertainers. 
And I guess that's just my 

469
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:16,680
perspective of that of course. 
But specifically Trans USA, our 

470
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:22,280
preliminary titles and our like 
prelim holders are chosen 

471
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:24,920
because of the work they do in 
our communities. 

472
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:28,640
So you have to be on the ground 
working already to have even 

473
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:31,080
qualified to make it to 
nationals. 

474
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:35,680
So what they are looking to do 
is uplift local community 

475
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:41,360
leaders and organizers to then 
go compete to have kind of 

476
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,840
national recognition and go in 
and help other people across the

477
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:48,080
country as well. 
That's Trans USA and I think 

478
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:54,040
it's a phenomenal system. 
I actually have created a very 

479
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:58,800
good relationship with the 
national director because last 

480
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:02,120
year I, I dealt with some fat 
phobia in how I was judged. 

481
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:08,120
And he, you know, we sat down 
and we talked a lot of it 

482
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:11,880
through and he took everything 
that I said. 

483
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:16,760
And so now the judges are going 
to be talked to more so about, 

484
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:20,600
you know, how do you judge 
somebody that may not have your 

485
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,560
body type, but like is modeling 
and it fits well. 

486
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:27,720
And just because it doesn't fit 
you doesn't mean it does not fit

487
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:34,000
properly on that person. 
That's really helped, and having

488
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:37,400
a system that directly takes 
feedback is really, like, 

489
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,280
amazing. 
Yes, so you don't have to look a

490
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:46,040
certain way because we both know
that Trend USA is not a drag 

491
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,280
pageant. 
It's a passion based on 

492
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,200
community involved make 
humanity, organizing and 

493
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:58,280
advocacy work. 
So that's why I enjoy going to 

494
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:02,280
it and feel comfortable there. 
So when you're on stage at a 

495
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:08,960
contest or a pageant like Trans 
USA is, is Mars different in 

496
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:12,440
pageant mode than he is in 
entertainment mode? 

497
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:19,240
I would say I walked this, I 
walked this fine line that 

498
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:23,520
throughout at least in last 
year's pattern, because usually 

499
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,160
in drag pageantry, I'm kind of 
in Mars head mode the whole 

500
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:31,160
time. 
But because trans USA is not a 

501
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:37,240
drag pageant, I'd say it's Ryan 
outside of the stage and in 

502
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,720
interview, but it's Mars who 
gets on the stage. 

503
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:46,360
And that's, you know, I find 
that kind of slipping into that 

504
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,760
headspace makes me feel like the
most confidence that I can be, 

505
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,240
which is, I would say, yes, 
slightly different than 

506
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:59,320
performance mode. 
My friends, and I think all of 

507
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:03,000
you will laugh at this. 
My friends like to describe my 

508
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,800
performance style in this one 
very specific way. 

509
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:09,120
And it's that Ryan is a verse, 
but Mars is a bottom. 

510
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:18,199
And when I when I asked them why
and what does that mean, they go

511
00:34:18,199 --> 00:34:21,280
well, Ryan walks with the 
purpose and Mars likes to 

512
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,040
prance. 
OK. 

513
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:29,320
I can see that Mars is kind of 
prissy sometimes. 

514
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:34,120
I. 
See your particular. 

515
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,920
Particular and Ryan can be a 
little county sometimes which I 

516
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:43,880
love you know so yeah. 
So, so where do you see your, 

517
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:47,600
your advocacy who are going and,
and these horrible times that 

518
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:52,440
we're having? 
Ideally, with my advocacy work, 

519
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:57,560
I will hopefully be the next Mr.
Trans USA and can expand out my 

520
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,320
work quite a lot more than where
it's at now. 

521
00:35:02,240 --> 00:35:06,160
I actually had an interview the 
other day for Trans USA and you 

522
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:08,880
know, Scrappy, the current Mr. 
Trans USA, and I were talking 

523
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,680
about it. 
I already have a plan in place 

524
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:14,640
to help all of the contestants 
across all three divisions. 

525
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:20,760
And one of the things I want to 
do is teach other people how to 

526
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:26,600
build events what and like 
tailor it to their communities 

527
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:30,240
and look around and see what is 
the what's needed the most. 

528
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:34,400
So, and I'll go into this first 
part of what I want to do with 

529
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:36,760
the contestants directly, and 
that's what I've been calling 

530
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:38,840
it, the take what you need, 
leave what you don't series. 

531
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:43,640
And so that teaches them hands 
on start to finish how to get 

532
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:47,720
involved in your community. 
If you don't have that heavy of 

533
00:35:47,720 --> 00:35:50,760
a background all the way 
through, how do you get to the 

534
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:55,560
national pageant on a budget? 
Because I've been there, done 

535
00:35:55,560 --> 00:36:00,560
that for many of many a pageant.
And the other portion of 

536
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:07,040
teaching the events would be 
having those contestants go out 

537
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:09,400
into their community, ask 
around, what are you guys 

538
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:10,920
needing? 
What do you want to see at an 

539
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,760
event? 
What are spaces that you find 

540
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:16,520
affirming that we could work 
with? 

541
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,400
And then go from there. 
So if that is creating a trans 

542
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:26,080
and queer prom, or it's a BBQ, 
or it is a performance art 

543
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:30,520
festival, whatever it is that 
their community wants to see and

544
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:32,760
wants to be at, then they could 
do that. 

545
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:41,400
And in that work, how have you 
seen that kind of blossom like 

546
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:46,400
with with the people that you're
you're engaging with? 

547
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:53,400
I luckily I've been able to kind
of do it here already before, 

548
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:56,760
you know, because that's my plan
with future contestants. 

549
00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:02,760
But I have several people here 
that I've already kind of 

550
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:07,320
started teaching and doing that.
I created and directed the metro

551
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:10,840
trans umbrella group royalty 
Pageant and that happened in 

552
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:14,360
February of this year. 
So we have three amazing trans 

553
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:20,240
folks from this area that one 
and each of them have to put on 

554
00:37:20,240 --> 00:37:22,960
a fundraiser. 
And so working with them and 

555
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:26,880
teaching them how to curate 
their events to the community, 

556
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:30,800
but also do something that they 
want to see that May not have 

557
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:33,680
been there has been so 
fulfilling. 

558
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:40,240
So we have our royalty court 
members, we have Miss M Tug is 

559
00:37:40,240 --> 00:37:46,280
Gloria good mix, M Tug is the 
Lucy Leon Fur and Mr. is Zane 

560
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:49,360
Mossretti Steele. 
And I'll tell you, the three of 

561
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:53,720
their ideas are so drastically 
different from each other, and 

562
00:37:53,720 --> 00:37:57,360
they all come from a very 
different background, like 

563
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,120
Zane's especially. 
I love it. 

564
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:05,200
He's a black trans man and he 
wants to do a Pride roller 

565
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:08,680
skating party. 
And it's to honor how one how 

566
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:10,840
his parents met. 
His parents met in a roller 

567
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:14,840
skating rink, but to honor the 
black community and how they 

568
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:18,520
used to come together in roller 
skating rinks as well. 

569
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:23,360
That's really nice. 
I didn't know that about the 

570
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:28,280
roller skating like connection 
with the black trans community. 

571
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:34,320
Yeah, I, he has educated me on 
quite a few things that I also 

572
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:37,240
was not aware of before, but I 
like, I'm really appreciative 

573
00:38:37,240 --> 00:38:40,480
of. 
And so I'm, I'm just so excited 

574
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:42,040
to help him put this event 
together. 

575
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:43,440
I think it's going to be a 
blast. 

576
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:48,720
Zalusi is doing a trans and 
queer fashion show. 

577
00:38:50,720 --> 00:38:52,840
That sounds fun. 
Yeah. 

578
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:55,360
And their whole background is 
sustainability. 

579
00:38:55,600 --> 00:39:02,840
They their entire package for 
the M Tug pageant was a lot of 

580
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,320
things bought second hand and 
repurposed. 

581
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:10,080
They're down that they had for 
evening wear was I want to say 

582
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:12,360
they told me they got it on 
Facebook Marketplace for like 

583
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:16,120
100 bucks. 
Girl, this dress, this dress was

584
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:18,120
gorgeous. 
Oh my God, it. 

585
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:19,560
Was. 
It was. 

586
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:28,400
So they want to because M Tug 
has what's called Alex's closet.

587
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:32,880
It's a free gender affirming 
closet named after a facilitator

588
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:36,000
for a non binary group 
expression spectrum who passed 

589
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:42,240
away in 2018. 
And what we want to do is go 

590
00:39:42,240 --> 00:39:46,000
through the closet, get 
donations and put looks together

591
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:48,840
and have them work with 
designers throughout the 

592
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:53,120
community who will do this as 
well and have trans folks model 

593
00:39:53,120 --> 00:40:00,120
on the stages and show what 
trans joy looks like directly in

594
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:06,040
clothing, but also showcasing 
sustainability within community.

595
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:16,760
Wow. 
I mean, that sounds fantastic. 

596
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:21,240
And, you know, as Mr. Trans 
Midwest, what are some of the 

597
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:26,440
challenges you faced here in the
Midwest with advocacy work? 

598
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,680
I would definitely say some of 
the biggest challenges has been 

599
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:34,600
directly from the state of 
Missouri. 

600
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:40,400
God bless these GOP assholes. 
I am going to murder them. 

601
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:43,720
Oh God, don't say that. 
He's Ryan. 

602
00:40:44,720 --> 00:40:49,960
God, you can't say that. 
I'm going. 

603
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,360
To have to edit that, I'm going 
to have to make sure I remind 

604
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:59,200
myself to edit that out. 
Right. 

605
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:01,360
Is that what you meant to say? 
Kill them with kindness. 

606
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:03,600
I'm going to kill them, murder 
with them, with kindness, of 

607
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:05,120
course. 
OK. 

608
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:10,880
I need. 
To figuratively do something I 

609
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:14,240
don't. 
Know good I never I never 

610
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:16,400
stopped like that they're like 
well, but you well. 

611
00:41:16,720 --> 00:41:17,920
Right. 
All right. 

612
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:19,160
And you're crazy. 
I love that. 

613
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:23,960
Yes. 
The GOP, though, you know we 

614
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:25,960
were here three years ago when 
they said they were not. 

615
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:30,440
Right, I didn't see. 
You almost dead, you know, But 

616
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:35,600
yeah, it's, it's, it's a, it's a
pretty unfortunate space that 

617
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:36,600
we're in. 
But, you know, it's not an 

618
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:39,240
unfamiliar space. 
It's, it's, it's a space that 

619
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:44,280
generations and, and our 
ancestors before, you know, they

620
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:46,360
have been in in precarious 
situations. 

621
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:50,080
And so, you know what what we're
needing to do now is to listen 

622
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:52,320
to those that have been here 
that have that have fought 

623
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:55,920
through and, and listen to the 
voices of marginalized people 

624
00:41:56,240 --> 00:41:59,520
and, and, and fight through this
because it you know, there are 

625
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:02,040
ways. 
It just takes a coalition of 

626
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:04,600
community together. 
And and that's, you know, 

627
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:06,360
something that obviously you're 
doing. 

628
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:11,880
Ryan and Jordan, Mr. and Miss 
Trans Midwest, that's a fan 

629
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:14,320
that's just, you know, I feel so
honored to have both of you 

630
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:17,040
here. 
Like this is thank you, Like 

631
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:20,920
thank you for taking the time 
and and, and I'm just I'm so an 

632
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:22,440
audience. 
Thank you for being here and 

633
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:27,720
Ryan, you know, what a what a, 
what a space to be celebrating 

634
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:34,560
your journey and your story 
amidst this, this, this flashes 

635
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:37,320
hostile takeover and, and you 
know, where will it take us? 

636
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:40,520
I, I don't know, you know, but 
but it's having these moments 

637
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:44,680
together in community that that 
inspire and, and remind us that 

638
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:51,080
although we're facing a, a heavy
threat, this isn't the first 

639
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:54,600
rodeo, at least not for us as a 
collective. 

640
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:57,280
So, you know, voting that 
community. 

641
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:02,400
It came for, you know, gay 
marriage and for sis gay folks 

642
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:06,200
1st, and they're using a lot of 
the same rhetoric now that they 

643
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:08,960
did then. 
So it's honest to God, 

644
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:13,000
predictable and tired. 
And Jordan, what do you always 

645
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,160
say? 
You said you were there. 

646
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:17,920
First, we're here. 
We're queer. 

647
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:20,560
Get used to it. 
Amen. 

648
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:26,600
Because that we, we use that 
slogan in the late 70s, early 

649
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:30,720
80s when everything was going, 
you know, when we had the same 

650
00:43:30,720 --> 00:43:33,640
predicament that we're in now. 
You know, people are trying to 

651
00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:36,000
race trans people, they're 
trying to write legislators that

652
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:39,200
we, that we can't be married. 
So no, we're here. 

653
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:40,480
We're queer. 
Get used to it. 

654
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:45,400
We ain't going nowhere. 
That's right, we're here to stay

655
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:48,200
and we're here to slay. 
Yes, we're here to stay. 

656
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:49,040
We're going to slay. 
Oh, I. 

657
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:52,200
Like that one just. 
King, we love that. 

658
00:43:52,800 --> 00:44:08,480
I'm sorry so. 
So as we are we on the wrap up 

659
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:09,920
now or? 
Yes, I. 

660
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:13,520
Oh, OK. 
Oh, no, I I think we still have 

661
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:15,400
a little more to go. 
I think I have a couple of more 

662
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:17,960
absolutely questions. 
For me now, I'm going to have to

663
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:19,320
remember to edit this part out 
too. 

664
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:26,160
Sorry. 
Well, so excellent so. 

665
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:27,720
Ryan, let me ask you this 
question. 

666
00:44:27,720 --> 00:44:32,720
You know, I, I, you know there's
a new reality show out after 

667
00:44:32,720 --> 00:44:36,840
After almost 2 decades of Ru 
Paul's Drag Race, there's 

668
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:38,600
finally exactly. 
Where this is going? 

669
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:41,720
Yes, yes, you do. 
Of course. 

670
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:44,680
It's about time, isn't it? 
You know and. 

671
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:48,240
Absolutely. 
So I'm so excited for the show. 

672
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:52,720
And, and we're excited for the 
work that you've been doing. 

673
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:54,600
You know, you, you, you have a 
show. 

674
00:44:54,720 --> 00:44:56,400
What is it? 
King Awakening, am I right? 

675
00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:59,840
It is, yes. 
Tell us about that. 

676
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:09,520
So king awakening is this 
culmination of my my dear friend

677
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:11,920
Andrew Genius who is one of my 
Co producers on it. 

678
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:19,680
He when he he was in College in 
Nebraska, ran the first King 

679
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:24,760
Awakening workshop and then he 
moved home after finishing 

680
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:28,880
college. 
And it had, it had been 

681
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:32,480
something that I wanted to do 
with other, you know, drag king 

682
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:35,080
friends of mine, of running 
basically our own King boot 

683
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:39,000
camp. 
And so we finally got to a 

684
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:41,640
point, you know, Andrew and I 
had been talking about it for a 

685
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:44,120
year and a half, two years. 
We couldn't find the time, 

686
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:49,960
couldn't get the the gaggle of 
gays together, the gaggle of 

687
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:54,200
gays. 
So we finally got to a point 

688
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:58,200
where we could make the time to 
do it. 

689
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:02,280
And Andrew, you know, talked to 
me and talked to our now other 

690
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:05,680
Co producer and Co host, Lucky 
Charm Dickerson. 

691
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:10,520
And so it's kind of an offshoot 
of the House of Valentino here 

692
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:14,600
in Saint Louis. 
Very cool. 

693
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:20,640
So Lucky and Andrew and I came 
together and we taught our first

694
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:26,320
workshop in January and we had 
almost 20 some odd people in the

695
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:29,800
class. 
And then how we do our workshops

696
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:31,760
is the following month is a 
showcase. 

697
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:35,880
So that's one of the only things
that interrupts our monthly 

698
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:41,800
themes. 
So we got that done in February.

699
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:45,280
We took March as a plan and prep
month. 

700
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:51,720
And then in April we had the 
first official king awakening 

701
00:46:51,720 --> 00:46:54,840
with one of our themes. 
Our theme was divorce, Dad rock.

702
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:59,760
Oh nice, like how? 
How was that received? 

703
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:03,360
So, well, it was a really packed
house for that. 

704
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:08,400
So we ended up, you know, I did 
you and Your hand from Pink and 

705
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:11,760
I did Paralyzer. 
Andrew and I together did 

706
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:15,800
Photograph from Nickelback and 
halfway through realized neither

707
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:18,800
of us fully know the lyrics to 
Photograph from Nickelback. 

708
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:25,440
Lucky, lucky. 
Oh my God, let me tell you that 

709
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:31,200
Andrew and I just adore him. 
He is such a dynamic entertainer

710
00:47:31,240 --> 00:47:36,040
that has an eclectic taste, and 
so we're never quite sure what 

711
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:41,640
he's going to pull out next. 
He ends up doing closer from 9 

712
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:46,160
Inch Nails because he was like, 
I don't know if that's divorced 

713
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:47,960
dad music. 
I said it is, do it. 

714
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:52,560
Definitely. 
And he ended up pulling his wife

715
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:56,600
up on stage with him and almost 
giving her like, this, like, 

716
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:00,520
sensual lap dance. 
And the audience lost their 

717
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:02,920
shit. 
And like, I was hosting at that 

718
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:06,280
point, I had just finished 
changing and I'm sitting there 

719
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:13,120
going, Oh my God, Oh my God, Oh 
my God, it was so good. 

720
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:18,080
So I'm very happy and excited 
to, you know, work with both of 

721
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:19,680
them. 
And funny enough that you 

722
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:23,400
brought up King of Drag, Andrew 
did apply to be on the 1st 

723
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:26,720
season of King of Drag and 
unfortunately did not make it. 

724
00:48:26,720 --> 00:48:32,240
But Dick Van Dyke, who did make 
it onto this season, is a, a old

725
00:48:32,240 --> 00:48:34,440
acquaintance of mine who I used 
to work with. 

726
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:38,800
He's actually from Saint Louis 
and then since, you know, 

727
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:41,320
leaving Saint Louis, he lived in
Kansas City for a little bit and

728
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:44,520
then he's been up in Minneapolis
for the last couple years. 

729
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:48,440
When I talk. 
About an amazing entertainer. 

730
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:51,000
Oh my God. 
Yeah, he was. 

731
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:54,800
Actually, I saw him. 
He was at Kayla. 

732
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:59,800
Yeah, Yeah, last year. 
So that's how I saw because I 

733
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:02,720
attended Gala as a choral 
member. 

734
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:08,960
So yeah, because I also sang. 
So yeah, it was a phenomenal 

735
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:11,040
performance. 
Like whoa. 

736
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:15,520
Yeah, he's an entertainer that I
have looked up to since I 

737
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:19,960
started drag. 
I've been just, I'm a fan of 

738
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:23,120
everything he does. 
I think it's so well thought out

739
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:31,680
and just the way he engages with
an audience makes my jaw drop. 

740
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:35,480
It turns me on. 
It like makes me flushed. 

741
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:38,360
And I'm and, you know, Dick is a
lesbian out of drag. 

742
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:43,040
So really I got to I got to be 
like, all right, let's let's get

743
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:50,640
away from this man. 
I think we lost Jordan. 

744
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:52,920
Yeah, I don't know where Jordan 
went. 

745
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:00,600
Oh gosh, now I got to edit that 
part out too. 

746
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:03,480
It's OK, we continue on. 
The audience won't know she'll 

747
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:05,720
be back. 
So. 

748
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:12,240
So let me ask you, let me ask 
you, Ryan, what's something 

749
00:50:12,240 --> 00:50:15,400
powerful or surprising you've 
seen emerge from King Awakening 

750
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:17,360
shows or workshops? 
You know, I remember where 

751
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:20,560
someone stepped into themselves 
in a whole new way beyond what 

752
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:23,280
you've already mentioned with, 
with, you know, these these 

753
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:24,680
entertainers that you've 
mentioned. 

754
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:29,320
What's something that really 
stands out in in the last in the

755
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:34,680
in the last bit of time? 
I think something that really 

756
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:38,040
stands out and it actually it, 
it brought me to tears. 

757
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:40,960
And then they brought, you know,
Andrew and Lucky like really 

758
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:48,760
emotionally as well, seeing 
people who have talked about, 

759
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:50,960
you know, I'm not confident or I
don't think I have the 

760
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:55,840
confidence to do this and see 
them go out and do it anyway and

761
00:50:55,840 --> 00:51:01,040
see them build themselves up and
whether they're just performing 

762
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:06,960
or whether they're building a 
concept, just pushing past their

763
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:10,640
fears. 
And we saw a handful of people 

764
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:13,240
that were like that in the first
showcase in February. 

765
00:51:13,240 --> 00:51:15,840
I think we're going to see our 
next showcase is actually this 

766
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:23,080
month on the 28th because we are
the only entirely King Show and 

767
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:26,800
Pride weekend, which I'm very 
proud of. 

768
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:30,720
And especially having our young 
entertainers, I hope they feel 

769
00:51:30,720 --> 00:51:36,720
just as proud as we are of them.
I have to tell you this, we've 

770
00:51:36,720 --> 00:51:41,360
got a, we've got some stellar 
names for our entertainers for 

771
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:44,280
this year. 
Or excuse me, this showcase, 

772
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:46,920
we've got one named himmy 
Buffett. 

773
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:52,080
Yeah, I got to pull this up 
because there's some good ones. 

774
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:58,320
My, my friends Wes and Chip are 
also doing the showcase. 

775
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:01,080
And so Wes's drag name is Weston
Show. 

776
00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:05,760
Weston Show. 
That's and then Chip is Walter 

777
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:08,080
Ego. 
Walter Ego. 

778
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:11,880
Like there's some really good 
ones. 

779
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:15,800
So Mars is your drag king 
persona? 

780
00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:18,360
Correct. 
So how do you how do you 

781
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:20,400
describe the energy or essence 
of Mars? 

782
00:52:20,720 --> 00:52:24,120
What does he allow for you to 
express that Ryan might not? 

783
00:52:27,240 --> 00:52:29,920
Mars wears a lot more 
rhinestones than Ryan does. 

784
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:34,400
Yes, quite a lot more. 
Which is funny because I do run 

785
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:39,760
kind of a side hustle business 
where I rhinestone custom pieces

786
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:43,440
for other people. 
So you would you would think I 

787
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:47,440
am also constantly covered in 
stones and the only time I am is

788
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:50,560
if they spill and they get all 
over me and then I'm finding 

789
00:52:50,560 --> 00:52:53,160
them all over my apartment for 
the next three weeks. 

790
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:58,240
How has your How has your 
relationship with masculinity 

791
00:52:58,240 --> 00:53:01,280
evolved through drag? 
Has Mars helped you heal, 

792
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:03,360
Reclaim. 
Reshape your understanding of 

793
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:07,160
masculinity? 
Absolutely, like Mars has helped

794
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:12,360
me in so many ways of like pre 
transition. 

795
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:17,600
I liked high fem like at times 
before I even went down the 

796
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:22,640
masculine route. 
I like you know, flamboyant and 

797
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:28,520
effeminate qualities in people. 
I like it myself being able to 

798
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:35,840
go up on stage and covered in 
rhinestones or sequins or 

799
00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:38,320
wearing like a lace shirt. 
I like to wear fishnet shirts a 

800
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:44,440
lot. 
Getting to do that and present 

801
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:48,120
in a very similar way to like my
ciske counterparts. 

802
00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:52,240
Do you know, in clubs is very 
healing for me. 

803
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:58,760
It like makes it so much more 
approachable to present like 

804
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:03,400
effeminate traits and it makes 
me just, it feels so good. 

805
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:10,240
Is the best part for you of 
getting up and performing. 

806
00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:17,240
I it's the cheering crowd, but 
not for me. 

807
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:19,640
Like, I mean like, I like that 
they're cheering for me. 

808
00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:22,440
Don't get me wrong. 
I like that they're having fun 

809
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:27,320
and I'm somebody who feeds on an
energy. 

810
00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:30,880
So if the crowd's got a great 
energy, then I'm like right 

811
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:34,400
there with them. 
And I like, I like fucking with 

812
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:40,240
them a little bit. 
Like usually if I, I'm taking a 

813
00:54:40,240 --> 00:54:43,360
tip, I like to, you know, I 
wasn't part of a drag family 

814
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:47,160
until recently. 
So a lot of what I learned in 

815
00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:49,480
mannerisms and how to take tips 
I learned from Queens. 

816
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:52,240
So, you know, I, you know, take 
the tip, give them a little 

817
00:54:52,240 --> 00:54:55,000
wing, give them a little kiss, 
like just blow them a little 

818
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:59,360
kiss that way. 
Or like if there's a specific 

819
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:06,880
part of a song like oh God, you 
in your hand when it's at the 

820
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:10,200
very end, Oh, quit spilling your
drink on me. 

821
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:13,600
I literally like do the whole 
thing. 

822
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:16,440
And I pointed out at an audience
member, quit spilling your drink

823
00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:21,920
on me. 
Like, I love giving them those 

824
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:25,800
little moments. 
So drag Queens still don't get 

825
00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:29,280
mainstream visibility, at least 
not as much as drag Queens do. 

826
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:31,760
What do you think people miss 
when they overlook King 

827
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:39,280
artistry? 
I think they miss someone, some 

828
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:44,640
phenomenal entertainers. 
But I think the other thing is I

829
00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:48,480
find that being a king is to 
challenge traditional 

830
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:52,640
masculinity, whether you know, 
somebody is presenting like how 

831
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:58,120
I do very like high effeminate, 
or whether it's like Murray 

832
00:55:58,120 --> 00:56:02,200
Hill, who's the host of king of 
drag, where he is a little bit 

833
00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:04,840
more on the traditional I, I 
consider him more of a 

834
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:11,320
traditional king. 
I think they miss any chance of 

835
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:18,320
getting a new experience and 
expanding their horizons Because

836
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:20,040
I love, you know, I love a good 
queen. 

837
00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:25,160
I I love when they get to the 
Kaka de Kaka de Kaka and their, 

838
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:27,880
you know, windmills and their 
donkey kicks, which I also do. 

839
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:32,160
Yeah. 
You ever see a drag king do a 

840
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:35,080
windmill and do a donkey kick? 
I can honestly say no, I have 

841
00:56:35,080 --> 00:56:35,840
not. 
So that's. 

842
00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:37,320
Then you got to come to one of 
my shows. 

843
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:39,320
Wow. 
Yeah, that's amazing. 

844
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:43,160
I I'm of the belief anything a 
queen can do, I can do too. 

845
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:49,040
Yes. 
But I think they miss such a 

846
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:52,400
like, also historic form of 
queer art. 

847
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:58,560
Like open it up, you know? 
Gender is something to be played

848
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:01,120
with, and if you're only going 
to look at the feminine side you

849
00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:04,920
are missing so much. 
As someone who mentors and 

850
00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:08,200
uplifts other entertainers, what
advice would you give to those 

851
00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:11,120
little baby kings who are just 
starting out? 

852
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:16,160
Find a way to pump yourself up 
because that's what I do before 

853
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:20,920
a show is, you know, whether 
that's listening to your music, 

854
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:24,160
whether that's, you know, 
kicking with your, your cast 

855
00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:27,400
mates in the dressing room while
you're getting ready, Pump 

856
00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:30,400
yourself up and create that 
connection because I guarantee 

857
00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:34,680
you that's what's going to keep 
bringing you back in Like, and 

858
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:36,400
that's how you build the 
relationships. 

859
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:43,200
That's how you really start to 
get a feel for who your your 

860
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:49,520
drag persona is. 
Has there been some like baby 

861
00:57:49,520 --> 00:57:55,920
drag kings that have been like 
really nervous starting out and 

862
00:57:55,920 --> 00:58:00,640
then something that you said to 
them was just like, oh, yeah, 

863
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:04,760
like there is the the catch or 
do you? 

864
00:58:05,080 --> 00:58:07,600
Is it mostly the people who are 
like hungry, ready to go? 

865
00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:10,840
A lot of the people that have 
done the workshop are kind of 

866
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:14,880
already hungry and ready to go 
because a lot of them, you know,

867
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:17,080
they talk about, they've been 
thinking about this for a while.

868
00:58:17,080 --> 00:58:21,600
This isn't, it's not something 
that they take lightly. 

869
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:29,880
I guess I, one of the ones I, I 
from this most recent workshop 

870
00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:35,600
that I, I really noticed was 
Nat, who is performing under the

871
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:39,080
name Dante Inferno. 
I love that name. 

872
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:46,240
I know I love that name too. 
They kind of came into the class

873
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:49,600
and they seemed a little like, 
OK, I'm going to hang out in the

874
00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:51,400
back and they didn't ask very 
many questions. 

875
00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:55,200
And then we did a portion of 
like teaching stage presence and

876
00:58:55,240 --> 00:58:57,400
like how to properly take tips 
and everything. 

877
00:58:57,800 --> 00:59:05,080
And I was not expecting Nat to, 
like, pop off the way that they 

878
00:59:05,080 --> 00:59:07,240
did. 
They got on that stage. 

879
00:59:07,480 --> 00:59:09,760
They said, oh, my God, You Can 
Dance. 

880
00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:14,040
And so it was, you know, it's 
the quiet ones that always get 

881
00:59:14,040 --> 00:59:15,640
ya. 
Yeah. 

882
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:18,200
That's true in a lot of things, 
too. 

883
00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:23,840
So what does what does trans 
liberation look like from the 

884
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:26,120
stage and what does it look like
from behind the curve? 

885
00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:27,720
You mean? 
You've already touched on that 

886
00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:30,760
so much, but tell us a little 
more. 

887
00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:37,440
I in my perspective, so when I 
started drag, I hadn't had top 

888
00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:42,080
surgery yet. 
So my trans liberation moment 

889
00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:45,160
was like the first time, you 
know, after I'd had top surgery 

890
00:59:45,160 --> 00:59:49,360
and was performing, was able to 
pop my shirt open and like not 

891
00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:52,680
have to worry about, you know, 
laws and nip slips. 

892
00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:55,920
And I mean, my nipples were 
still out, but I like to call 

893
00:59:55,920 --> 01:00:01,360
them my Gucci nipples. 
That was. 

894
01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:05,800
That was pure trans liberation 
for me. 

895
01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:11,160
And behind, behind the curtain 
and especially in the workshop, 

896
01:00:11,160 --> 01:00:17,280
you know, we teach about not 
just what people think a drag 

897
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:19,120
king is. 
So usually, you know, they, they

898
01:00:19,120 --> 01:00:23,000
think, oh, a drag queen is a man
dressed as a woman or, you know,

899
01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:24,680
a king is a woman dressed as a 
man. 

900
01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:29,600
We really teach that background 
of, you know, trans people have 

901
01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:31,680
always been very involved with 
drag. 

902
01:00:31,680 --> 01:00:37,200
And the majority, not all, but 
the majority of the kings that I

903
01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:40,280
am aware of are trans in some 
way or another. 

904
01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:42,000
And a lot of the Queens are as 
well. 

905
01:00:43,640 --> 01:00:45,000
Would you agree with me on that,
Jordan? 

906
01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:51,000
Yes, I do. 
Yeah, I, I think, you know, 

907
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:55,680
teaching that from the start so 
people kind of understand what 

908
01:00:55,680 --> 01:01:00,520
they're walking into, and also 
that this could be a time to 

909
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:05,840
educate on like trans identities
and maybe help somebody figure 

910
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:07,400
out who they are. 
Yes. 

911
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:10,840
Brute drag. 
Like we all did, yeah. 

912
01:01:12,200 --> 01:01:20,400
So you're now Mr. Trans Midwest 
2025, the former a mentor, an 

913
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:24,040
organizer, and you've already 
been honored as an outstanding 

914
01:01:24,040 --> 01:01:26,080
advocate. 
That's the legacy work in 

915
01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:29,520
motion, Ryan. 
If you zoom out, ask the 

916
01:01:29,520 --> 01:01:34,000
pageants, pass the applause, 
what does legacy truly mean to 

917
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:39,200
you? 
Legacy for me is making sure 

918
01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:44,320
that once I'm gone or, you know,
once I, I need to step away from

919
01:01:44,320 --> 01:01:50,600
the work for a bit, that those 
safe and affirming spaces are 

920
01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:54,080
still being created and that, 
you know, marches are still 

921
01:01:54,080 --> 01:01:57,680
being organized and people still
have a place to come and be 

922
01:01:57,680 --> 01:01:59,920
safe. 
I think that's the biggest thing

923
01:01:59,920 --> 01:02:04,560
for me. 
When When people speak your name

924
01:02:04,840 --> 01:02:08,840
years from now, whether it's 
Mars, Ryan, or both, what do you

925
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:11,680
hope they remember, feel, or 
even carry forward? 

926
01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:14,440
And more importantly, what are 
you consciously trying to leave 

927
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:17,400
behind for the next generation 
of trans leaders in drag? 

928
01:02:17,400 --> 01:02:22,960
King stepping into the light. 
I think I want them. 

929
01:02:23,480 --> 01:02:28,920
I want to be remembered for 
helping, like, as as many people

930
01:02:28,920 --> 01:02:34,240
as I could have, like anybody 
who I crossed paths with. 

931
01:02:34,360 --> 01:02:37,520
I had hope in some way or 
another, whether it's more 

932
01:02:37,520 --> 01:02:40,560
profound or less, that I could 
have helped them. 

933
01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:49,880
That's beautiful. 
So in these trying times, my 

934
01:02:49,880 --> 01:02:54,120
final question to you is what 
does pride mean to you this 

935
01:02:54,120 --> 01:02:59,280
year? 
Pride to me this year, 

936
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:03,720
especially with, you know, the 
current government and federal 

937
01:03:03,720 --> 01:03:10,480
bullshit. 
Pride is a protest and but, and 

938
01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:12,720
I always especially put that 
but. 

939
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:15,720
What is what should we do to 
protest this year? 

940
01:03:15,720 --> 01:03:19,680
What is what what? 
And its pride in its selfless. 

941
01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:25,720
With the protest and Pride 
especially, you know, we're 

942
01:03:25,720 --> 01:03:28,440
doing the the protest on the 
28th. 

943
01:03:30,720 --> 01:03:34,080
But with the protest, I do think
people need to remember that we 

944
01:03:34,080 --> 01:03:37,320
can't be fighting all the time, 
that there is a time for rest 

945
01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:39,120
and there is a time for 
celebration. 

946
01:03:39,440 --> 01:03:42,920
And I do think Pride can be both
a protest and a celebration. 

947
01:03:44,120 --> 01:03:49,320
And that's where I was going 
with my butt is that especially 

948
01:03:49,520 --> 01:03:52,680
we've been in our community 
having a lot of backlash because

949
01:03:53,560 --> 01:03:55,640
price St. 
Louis, you know, has now had a 

950
01:03:55,640 --> 01:03:59,360
$10 cover to get into pride to 
help sustain the organization 

951
01:03:59,360 --> 01:04:02,960
going further after, you know, 
several major corporate sponsors

952
01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:07,280
backed out. 
And I read that press release, I

953
01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:09,760
thought it made total sense. 
But the amount of people in our 

954
01:04:09,760 --> 01:04:14,040
community that are saying, oh, 
we shouldn't have to pay for 

955
01:04:14,040 --> 01:04:16,400
this, Pride was a protest. 
Why are we doing this? 

956
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:19,440
But they're also the same people
that if Pride got any smaller, 

957
01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:22,120
they'd be bitching about it too.
They bitched that it was too 

958
01:04:22,120 --> 01:04:23,920
corporate. 
They bitched when we're asking 

959
01:04:23,920 --> 01:04:26,800
for community help. 
You can't have it both ways. 

960
01:04:27,200 --> 01:04:32,240
And remember that Pride is the 
protest and it's a time for us 

961
01:04:32,240 --> 01:04:35,480
to celebrate. 
And if putting some money down 

962
01:04:36,080 --> 01:04:39,880
is going to help continue that 
and sustain it, then so be it. 

963
01:04:39,880 --> 01:04:44,160
I will do it. 
And sometimes people don't read 

964
01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:49,080
the whole press release because 
we're actually giving away free 

965
01:04:49,080 --> 01:04:51,400
tickets. 
If you can't, no one will ever 

966
01:04:51,400 --> 01:04:53,840
be turned away from pride, 
regardless of your financial 

967
01:04:53,840 --> 01:04:56,680
situation. 
And, and, but they don't read 

968
01:04:56,680 --> 01:04:58,840
that part. 
They go, oh, it's $10 on my pin.

969
01:04:59,120 --> 01:05:03,240
But this is the kick that gets, 
that burns my butt, is that 

970
01:05:03,680 --> 01:05:08,520
people will go to different 
cities and pay 30 and $40 A, to 

971
01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:11,360
get it all Pride or B, to get 
into a, a club. 

972
01:05:11,840 --> 01:05:16,520
Remember, remember when we tried
to charge cover charges here in 

973
01:05:16,520 --> 01:05:18,240
Saint Louis? 
Everybody pitched about that. 

974
01:05:18,440 --> 01:05:21,920
But yet you go to New York, you 
got to pay $30 in the club and 

975
01:05:21,920 --> 01:05:25,360
they'll gladly shell out that 
money and not say one word about

976
01:05:25,360 --> 01:05:27,800
it. 
We have to change the mentality 

977
01:05:27,800 --> 01:05:30,120
here in Saint Louis that 
everything should be free. 

978
01:05:30,520 --> 01:05:33,760
It's not free. 
Free people think all the money 

979
01:05:33,760 --> 01:05:34,800
goes to entertainment. 
No. 

980
01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:38,200
There's security, there's 
fencing, there's advertising, 

981
01:05:38,320 --> 01:05:41,840
there's security, there's the 
stage that has to be put up. 

982
01:05:42,320 --> 01:05:45,040
Yep. 
All cleaning up too, yeah. 

983
01:05:46,080 --> 01:05:48,040
And the cleaning up and the 
porta potties. 

984
01:05:48,080 --> 01:05:49,880
We don't feel you full of 
liquor, but give you know where 

985
01:05:49,880 --> 01:05:51,640
to. 
Yeah, yeah. 

986
01:05:51,840 --> 01:05:54,360
So they don't mention. 
Think about all those things. 

987
01:05:54,360 --> 01:05:56,840
Sorry about that, I got on the 
tangent for a moment. 

988
01:05:57,640 --> 01:05:59,240
Well, you know, I love the 
tangents. 

989
01:05:59,800 --> 01:06:01,760
So you mentioned the 28th, the 
protest. 

990
01:06:02,040 --> 01:06:05,000
What are you showing up for? 
What are you showing up for as 

991
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:07,320
much as what you're showing up 
against? 

992
01:06:07,720 --> 01:06:09,960
What's the dream beyond just the
resistance? 

993
01:06:11,320 --> 01:06:13,920
I'm showing up for the people 
that were like me, that were 

994
01:06:13,920 --> 01:06:17,000
trans kids and that are now 
trans adults and showing that, 

995
01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:18,880
you know, we can live past 
youth. 

996
01:06:20,840 --> 01:06:23,600
I'm going to be honest, like I 
didn't think I was going to live

997
01:06:23,600 --> 01:06:26,080
past 18 years old. 
And now I'm 26. 

998
01:06:26,520 --> 01:06:33,120
And I want them to see, you 
know, you can grow up to be a 

999
01:06:33,160 --> 01:06:36,840
fulfilled and happy trans adult.
I love that. 

1000
01:06:37,400 --> 01:06:40,920
How do you how do you hold space
for joy in a world trying to a 

1001
01:06:40,920 --> 01:06:42,840
racist? 
How do you stay connected to 

1002
01:06:42,840 --> 01:06:45,280
celebration without the fire, 
the protests going out? 

1003
01:06:49,160 --> 01:06:52,240
I tried to get away from social 
media to like, hold on to my 

1004
01:06:52,240 --> 01:06:55,040
joy. 
You know, I, I, I'm very 

1005
01:06:55,040 --> 01:06:59,640
particular about how much media 
I consume all at once so I don't

1006
01:06:59,640 --> 01:07:04,360
send myself down a spiral. 
But I also, and I actually just 

1007
01:07:04,360 --> 01:07:09,160
had this conversation with my 
board vice president, Jessica. 

1008
01:07:09,160 --> 01:07:11,400
I was with her in New York City 
this weekend. 

1009
01:07:11,400 --> 01:07:13,760
I went to Lambda Legals Liberty 
OH. 

1010
01:07:14,120 --> 01:07:18,360
My God, Lambda. 
Legal at the awards, they had 

1011
01:07:18,920 --> 01:07:24,840
Commander Schilling come up and 
she was the the fighter pilot 

1012
01:07:24,840 --> 01:07:30,000
who sued Donald Trump. 
And a lot of what the awards 

1013
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:31,880
were talking about is 
fearlessness and fearlessness 

1014
01:07:31,880 --> 01:07:34,200
and fearlessness. 
And something she said that 

1015
01:07:34,200 --> 01:07:41,800
really struck me was you should 
feel fear and you should be able

1016
01:07:41,800 --> 01:07:43,880
to feel that. 
And you know where this LED into

1017
01:07:43,880 --> 01:07:46,840
the conversation with Jessica, 
If you if you don't know Jessica

1018
01:07:46,840 --> 01:07:50,000
Hicklin, I think she would be 
phenomenal for this, for this 

1019
01:07:50,000 --> 01:07:53,760
podcast, like, and she's just 
amazing. 

1020
01:07:55,800 --> 01:08:02,640
We talked about what does it 
look to be in fear while also 

1021
01:08:02,640 --> 01:08:06,800
being in leadership. 
And for me, I don't want the 

1022
01:08:06,800 --> 01:08:09,840
people that I protect to see it 
out of me. 

1023
01:08:10,160 --> 01:08:12,160
But that does not mean that I'm 
not scared. 

1024
01:08:12,160 --> 01:08:15,240
And that does not mean I can't 
talk to my colleagues about it 

1025
01:08:15,560 --> 01:08:19,479
and, you know, get the support 
that I need while also still 

1026
01:08:19,479 --> 01:08:23,080
supporting others. 
How can our audience find out 

1027
01:08:23,080 --> 01:08:25,960
more about you and stay in 
contact and keep up to date with

1028
01:08:25,960 --> 01:08:30,960
your work? 
Yeah, so you can find me under, 

1029
01:08:31,000 --> 01:08:32,279
you know, the same name on 
Facebook. 

1030
01:08:32,279 --> 01:08:33,560
Please shoot me a message 
before. 

1031
01:08:33,560 --> 01:08:40,080
Do not just add me and then on 
Instagram I've got a personal 

1032
01:08:40,080 --> 01:08:44,640
drag account and a a a drag 
account. 

1033
01:08:44,960 --> 01:08:51,520
So my personal account is at 
Delirium Knight KNIGHT not not 

1034
01:08:51,520 --> 01:08:55,439
like night time. 
And then my drag account is at 

1035
01:08:55,439 --> 01:08:56,439
Mars dot drag. 
Awesome. 

1036
01:08:59,319 --> 01:09:03,960
Wow. 
Yes, Jordan, Kevin, Brian, I've 

1037
01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:07,640
really enjoyed this time that 
we've had here, Ryan. 

1038
01:09:08,160 --> 01:09:10,319
It's been, it's been so nice. 
This has been. 

1039
01:09:10,319 --> 01:09:12,520
Thank you so much for being here
with us today, you know. 

1040
01:09:13,120 --> 01:09:15,479
Thank you so much for having me,
I really appreciate it. 

1041
01:09:15,800 --> 01:09:18,040
Thank you for coming on. 
This has been a really great 

1042
01:09:18,040 --> 01:09:21,359
time talking with you, Ryan and 
Jordan as well. 

1043
01:09:21,359 --> 01:09:26,080
And Caroline and one big happy 
trans narrative. 

1044
01:09:26,840 --> 01:09:28,760
That's right. 
Speaking of a Speaking of Trans 

1045
01:09:28,760 --> 01:09:32,800
Narrative, if you'd like to be a
part of this program, please 

1046
01:09:32,800 --> 01:09:36,520
e-mail us at Trans Narrative 
podcast@gmail.com. 

1047
01:09:36,520 --> 01:09:39,560
That's 
transnarrativepodcast@gmail.com.

1048
01:09:39,560 --> 01:09:41,720
And I will reply swiftly and get
you in my spreadsheet. 

1049
01:09:42,600 --> 01:09:46,080
You know, I just, I just want to
say audience, thank you for 

1050
01:09:46,080 --> 01:09:47,640
being here. 
Thank you for giving us your 

1051
01:09:47,640 --> 01:09:50,600
time and your attention and just
being here with us present and 

1052
01:09:51,439 --> 01:09:54,640
in these conversations. 
It really does mean so much. 

1053
01:09:55,160 --> 01:09:58,440
And, and I see that and, and 
thank you for showing up. 

1054
01:09:58,440 --> 01:10:02,840
And Jordan, thank you for being 
here, Kevin and, and, and Ryan. 

1055
01:10:02,840 --> 01:10:06,120
Kevin, before we go, do you have
any final thoughts or anything 

1056
01:10:06,120 --> 01:10:08,440
you'd like to say, any questions
you'd like to ask Ryan before we

1057
01:10:08,440 --> 01:10:11,080
depart? 
Thank. 

1058
01:10:11,160 --> 01:10:19,080
You for showing up in our 
community, and thank you for 

1059
01:10:19,080 --> 01:10:23,000
being a voice of power and 
persistence. 

1060
01:10:25,680 --> 01:10:29,200
So, yeah, thank you. 
This is going to make me cry. 

1061
01:10:31,200 --> 01:10:33,480
Jordan wasn't kidding. 
I cry at everything. 

1062
01:10:33,600 --> 01:10:36,560
Everything. 
Yes, Jordan. 

1063
01:10:37,120 --> 01:10:41,160
Yes, and my love. 
My sweet Jordan, oh gosh, I'm so

1064
01:10:41,200 --> 01:10:42,440
happy. 
Turn the camera on for a minute 

1065
01:10:42,440 --> 01:10:44,680
so I can see it. 
Thank you. 

1066
01:10:44,880 --> 01:10:47,640
You got extra time for me 
because my flights been delayed.

1067
01:10:47,920 --> 01:10:49,600
I guess there's. 
Storms got delayed. 

1068
01:10:49,760 --> 01:10:53,480
I guess there's storms in in 
Saint Louis and so they delayed 

1069
01:10:53,480 --> 01:10:55,280
it now. 
So thank you. 

1070
01:10:55,800 --> 01:10:58,920
That's always here, and I always
love being on this podcast with 

1071
01:10:58,920 --> 01:11:01,360
you, Caroline, and with Kevin 
and Ron today. 

1072
01:11:01,560 --> 01:11:05,640
I'd love the purpose of this 
podcast is to tell trans stories

1073
01:11:05,840 --> 01:11:08,240
because we need to give more of 
our stories out there. 

1074
01:11:08,520 --> 01:11:11,880
And God bless you, Caroline, for
getting us this platform to tell

1075
01:11:11,880 --> 01:11:16,480
our stories. 
It's, it's truly a joy to to 

1076
01:11:16,480 --> 01:11:20,400
spend the, the weeks here with, 
with the audience and you and, 

1077
01:11:20,800 --> 01:11:22,320
and everyone here. 
Jordan, do you have any final 

1078
01:11:22,320 --> 01:11:23,440
questions you'd like to leave us
with? 

1079
01:11:23,440 --> 01:11:28,000
Ryan, anything like that? 
Just just I know Ryan, and Ryan 

1080
01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:31,640
is a true and true advocate 
through and through. 

1081
01:11:31,800 --> 01:11:33,760
He works very hard for the 
community. 

1082
01:11:33,960 --> 01:11:35,760
He don't take no shit off 
nobody. 

1083
01:11:35,920 --> 01:11:39,160
And whenever I need a March, 
he's my March partner. 

1084
01:11:39,160 --> 01:11:44,080
I know I can count on him to 
take our streets over and I 

1085
01:11:44,080 --> 01:11:47,520
appreciate him for that. 
Because they're whose streets. 

1086
01:11:47,720 --> 01:11:56,400
Are streets well? 
I I appreciate you, Jordan, 

1087
01:11:56,400 --> 01:12:00,840
Kevin, thank you all so much for
being here audience again. 

1088
01:12:00,840 --> 01:12:05,160
It's a pleasure or joy Ryan, as 
we as we carry on this week in 

1089
01:12:05,160 --> 01:12:08,600
the part, who would you like to 
leave our audience with to just 

1090
01:12:09,120 --> 01:12:10,760
to carry on this week? 
What's the message? 

1091
01:12:10,760 --> 01:12:13,440
What are you leaving us with? 
The same thing I said in my 

1092
01:12:13,440 --> 01:12:17,160
speech at the The Trans Day 
Visibility March, that despite 

1093
01:12:17,160 --> 01:12:20,320
everything going on, the trans 
and queer people will find joy 

1094
01:12:20,320 --> 01:12:25,080
in the darkest of times, and 
that we have to put our best 

1095
01:12:25,080 --> 01:12:27,240
foot forward to make sure we 
still get that joy.