Well, hi, everyone. Welcome back to the Trans
Narrative Podcast. I'm Caroline, and today I'm
joined with Kevin, also known as Sky Spectrum.
Welcome back. Hello welcome everyone in the
lovely trans narrative podcast world.
Yes, It's so good to have you back.
Thanks for being here. And Jordan, Jordan, Jordan,
Jordan Braxton, welcome back. It's so good to have you.
Hey, hey, hey, hey. I'm glad to be back.
Thanks for having me back. What's up, world?
How you doing today? Yes, I need you.
I need your energy in my life. I love it.
Thank you for being here. And today, our very special
guest, it's Ryan Klinghammer. Welcome to the Transnative.
It's so good to have you. Thanks for being here.
Thank you for having me, really appreciate it.
Yes, absolutely. So before we get started, a
little bit about Ryan. Ryan is a dynamic community
leader, performer and advocate whose work uplifts and energizes
the trans and drag king communities across the Midwest.
As the Director of Events for the Metro Trans Umbrella Group,
Ryan has played a key role in cultivating affirming spaces,
organizing inclusive programming, and bringing people
together through celebration in mutual care.
With over 7 years of experience as a drag king under the stage
name Mars, Ryan brings both creativity and heartfelt
storytelling to every performance, using drag as a
vehicle for joy, resistance, and visibility.
He currently holds the title of Mr. Trans Midwest 2025 and was
honored with the Mr. Trans USA Class of 2024 Outstanding
Advocate Awards for his tireless commitment to uplifting trans
lives through advocacy, performance, and mentorship.
In addition to his pageant and nonprofit work, Ryan Cohost and
Co produces King Awakening, A vibrant monthly all drag king
show that features rotating themes and offers quarterly
workshops designed to nurture and empower new entertainers
entering the scene. His impact resonates through
every facet of his work, whether on stage, behind the scenes, or
in community spaces where trans joy and liberation are centered.
Ryan, thank you for being here. Thank you.
I'm going to cry. That was stupid.
That was really good. So beautiful.
All right, Hey everybody, and welcome back to the Trans
Narrative podcast. I am one of your hosts today,
Diet of Pepsi. Oh, or Jordan Braxton as I
known, let's say. Hey to everybody, the Caroline
and we're back with Kevin and of course, our very accomplished
guest today, Mr. Ryan Klinghammer, who is Mr. Trans
Midwest. Welcome back everybody.
Hey, Ryan, how are you doing? I'm doing great.
How are you? Fine, fine, fine.
Now you know, here on the Trans Narrative Podcast, we tell the
story of trans people. So today we're going to listen
to your story. So I'm going to start everything
off by asking you this very important question.
So what day were you born? Was it a Wednesday or Friday or
Tuesday? What time were you born?
Were you born in spring, summer, winter?
Was it raining? Was it snowing?
Was it sunny? Was it hot?
Was it a tornado? Tell me what your early life is
like growing up. What was your childhood?
And just give us an insight into what little Ryan was.
Like so I was born on December 21st of 1998 in here in Saint
Louis and actually surprisingly for it being December, it was
not very cold at all. My part of my dead name actually
came from roses that sprung up in the middle of December
outside of my parents rental. So that's where part of my old
name came from and it was just unusually warm.
And that kind of starts out my life.
I have lived a little bit of here, there and everywhere
starting in Saint Louis. That is where my family from is
from. That is where I currently live.
From there we moved to Buffalo, NY, for my mom's job and then
back to Saint Louis again after she left that company.
Then we were in Rantoul, Illinois, which is about 15
minutes outside of the Champaign Urbana area where the University
of Illinois is. And then when I was around, I
think 11 years old, my parents separated and divorced, and then
I'm back in Saint Louis and that's where I've been since
then. All right, so, Terry, what was
it like? What was it like growing up,
first of all, in Saint Louis, and you mean the Buffalo was
that different atmosphere, different, different beliefs?
Tell us all about the the contrast.
Well, definitely different weather because we lived right
on Lake Erie, so we would get lake effect snow.
There's pictures of me at three and four years old at Halloween
standing in a pile of snow like I would just start coming down
in early October. Beliefs wise, go ahead.
You said sounds right, yeah. Yeah, but beliefs wise I was so
young I don't really quite remember there being such a
drastic difference. My parents were kind of semi
religious but not hardcore by any means.
My mom grew up Lutheran and my dad grew up Catholic.
So we had a lot of like underlying, you know, you have
your morals because of this. But that kind of carried through
all throughout wherever we were living, wherever we were going,
until I kind of broke away and said I'm not doing this
religious stuff anymore, which still to this day bothers my
mom, But that's that's her own issue.
OK, So what was the what was the one religious thing that that
was a proverbial shot about the camels?
Truly for me, my mom went back and forth between being Lutheran
and then into non denominational Christian churches and between
that and my dad's Catholicism background.
All of it started to be very hypocritical and it really
confused me from a young age of like.
Why? One part of the subsection of
Christianity was saying this is OK, but the other was not.
And this one is saying it could be nuanced.
And I just, I was at a point where I was like, do I even
believe in God? Like I don't really believe in
anything from a book of fiction personally.
And I, I want to say the biggest thing was seeing the outright
homophobia and transphobia in churches of these people trying
to say, you know, love thy neighbor as you love yourself,
and yet they weren't. So what was your so Did you go
to public school, Catholic school, Lutheran's?
What kind of public education did you have?
Or I said I'm in public. I mean, what kind of education,
Private school, public school? What kind of kid were you when
you were in school? Combination of both.
I started out in public school and then went to Catholic school
for a few years and then when my parents split and we moved back
here to Saint Louis, then I was public school throughout the
rest. OK, were you were you a computer
nerd? Were you athletic?
What did you wasn't an extra? Were you a cheerleader?
Were you an he was a theater? Kid.
A theater kid and a choir nerd. I was in two different acapella
groups. I was in our thespian troupe.
I was the stereotypical obnoxious theater kid.
Wow, so like, what was your favorite play that you were in?
I really like Damn Yankees. It was the one and only show
that I was ever cast in because our two directors were both
homophobic and transphobic. Oh my God.
Which is like with the background that I have.
I'm a train singer. I like was in, you know, theatre
productions all throughout, you know, middle school and doing
community theatre. But truly, Damn Yankees is one
of my favorite shows that I have ever been in.
I think the plot of it is really fun.
I think I just really like that some guy sold his soul to the
devil just to play baseball and be young again.
Love that. So I guess it's your school?
There was no like high school production of Bakaja.
Fold in? No, but I think that would have
been really cool. That would have been amazing.
I. Would love to see a high school
production of Akash. Now.
If they can do Hairspray, why can't they do Akash see and?
We did Hairspray in my senior year.
Oh, really? Yeah.
My God, we love Hairspray. Yeah, we did the four major
musicals. We did my four years.
We did Footloose my freshman year, then Damn Yankees with
sophomore Annie and then Hairspray.
Amazing. Were you in all of those?
I was on technical theater support for Hairspray,
Footloose, and well, then, then the cast of Damn Yankees.
And then I had a situation happen where I was actually not
allowed to be in the theater and any participation when Annie
rolled around because I got into a physical fight with another
person. Spill the.
Tea, What happened? So for background, I came out as
trans when I was in high school. So I came out this summer
between my sophomore and my junior year.
And I was actually not the only trans person out.
There was about six of us who by today's standards would have
been about trans mask. And I had this guy that we
started out as friends. And then I don't quite
understand what happened. Even today I don't, but he kind
of turned into a Dick and we got into a physical fight because I
had been like stapling something up to the call board that I
guess he thought was supposed to be his job.
And it started out as a screaming match.
And I like it was opening night of our our winter show and he I
had like a dress shirt on and a tie on.
He grabbed me by the knot of my tie and pulled me in and I had
the stapler in my hand and so I beat him with the stapler to get
him off me. Ryan, yeah.
And so even though I didn't start the fight, I didn't start
the altercation at all, the theater teachers both put us on
like a suspension from the theater itself.
So during that time I actually got into competing in slam
poetry and that was kind of my my spring off from the from the
shows. Oh, so you like you like poetry
slams then? I like them when they're good.
OK, so tell us what it was like coming out as trans in high
school and did you have any challenges?
It was difficult. It was definitely really
difficult. I didn't have the verbiage until
I met my first other trans person, which funny enough was
the guy I got into the fight with.
Ohio, so like take us down that journey because to go from like
friends to them, like fighting and then like he's trans as
well. Yeah, wow.
So I my sophomore year I kind of started playing around with,
with gender expression and at this time I identified with
being queer into like a lesbian leaning territory.
And as an adult and understanding what I, how I see
presentation now, I realized that I was leaning into being a
lesbian because that for me and in like my family dynamic was
one of the only ways to present masculinity on an A fat body.
So I was like a mask lesbian for I would say almost a year.
And then I met him and he had just come out and I was like,
you know, that makes a lot of sense.
That makes sense is why I'm wearing 3 sports bras to keep my
chest down and not feeling comfortable with being called a
feminine name or she her pronouns.
So I toyed around a little bit with, you know, different gender
identities and different names. So I like, I liked the name
Skylark for a little bit. I am so glad I did not keep that
name. Skylark.
OK, I don't see you as a
Skylark. I don't see myself as a skylark
either. Granted this was like 1516 year
old maid. So and then I got to a point
where I I thought I was kind of non binary or at the time we
really didn't have the term non binary.
So gender fluid genderqueer would have been the closest that
I thought I was. And I was, you know, looking at
how other genderqueer people online were presenting.
And a lot of it was very androgynous and, you know,
shifting back and forth. And for me, that just wasn't
fitting the vibe. I was only wanting to present
masculinely the entire time. And then I went, oh snap, I'm
just a tea boy. And so how would you identify to
like right now? I like the term trans mask
personally. Like for the general public I
just say trans man or like a trans boy.
But I I particularly like trans masculine because I don't
necessarily identify with being a binary trans man but I don't
identify with being non binary either.
And I think. You know what?
I feel that. I feel that so much because, you
know, I'm sorry. I hope I didn't interrupt.
You. No, no, you're fine.
I, you know, because I hate labels.
I really do. They're so tiring.
And you know, I was like, well, I'm just my gender's Caroline
and I thought if I had to label it, can I be like a trans non
binary woman? Like for me that just I was
like, you know, because I feel so fluid in my identity and I
just and I don't even like the term non binary, you know, I
just I feel like I'm, I used to say I was a I was just a person,
experienced the universe, but now I realize, you know, I'm the
universe experiencing a person, just me.
I love that. Yes, to each his own.
I love that. So why you were your early role
models? I have to think about that
because like, I'm going to be honest, like I wouldn't
necessarily say that like transitioning was traumatic, but
I always do believe that the act of being trans is it can cause
trauma. And for me that's like turned
off quite a lot of memories of like early transition and early
queerness. I didn't have very many trans
people to look up to like in general, like popular media, but
there was quite a lot of them on YouTube.
So like some of the early role models that I, I do recall it
was like Skylar Kerrgel, Alex Birdie, Jamie Dodger, like those
kinds of Youtubers that were there because they were some of
the most prominent out of all of the like media that I could
find. So now I know you like we'll
just make it transparent. I know Ryan very well.
Ryan are really good friends. I miss trans Midwest.
He's Mr. Trans with West. We have another friend Wes who's
MX trans. And so we're kind of like the,
we call ourselves team Midwest, team trans Midwest and we hang
out and stuff. So I know Ryan and Ryan.
I just curious, when did TRAC first enter your life?
Did it enter in high school? Was it later in life?
So I was aware of what drag was when I was in high school, but
actually I didn't. I didn't go to my first show
until my freshman year of college.
I was 18 and ended up at Attitudes which was a gay par
here in Saint Louis that unfortunately closed during
COVID, but they were 18. Plus you'd pay like an extra
part of your cover to get in if you were under 21.
And that was the first show I saw and I was just mesmerized by
the 1st Drag king I ever saw, which was writer.
Love him, love him. Love him.
I actually just worked with him recently.
He was a guest on my show. I got to see him.
I got to see Noah Maserati Seal, who was one of our like best
male leads here in Saint Louis. And I just became fascinated
with being a drag king. And it was actually not until
almost another full year later that I would get up and do my
first open stage night. Do you remember what your first
song was? It was crazy equals genius from
Panic at the Disco and we got to do 2 rounds.
So I did that for the first round and then I did Jessie's
Girl from Rick Springfield for the second round.
Not Jessie's girl. Yes, Jessie's girl.
So yeah, I ended up on my first open stage night a year after
seeing my first drag show. And I guess you could say the
rest is history, because here I am, seven years later.
You got bit by the drag bug. I got bit by the drag bug girl.
And so that like, I mean, I started out in drag as well and
then that kind of was like the, I call it drag was the gateway
drug to transition. Oh my God, go ahead, finish and
I'll tell you why I said Oh my God.
So. So how has drag informed your
identity? So for me, because I already
started transitioning before I got into drag, it's opened up a
new way of expression for me out of drag.
So for me, I identify as like a gay and then I usually put in
parentheses yet vaguely bisexual.
Vaguely bisexual. Vaguely bisexual, like
predominantly gay but every once in a while if the right kind of
like like I'm into masculine people and that's why I say
vaguely bisexual because I've dated non binary people.
I've dated like the only people I don't particularly date is
women. I'm just not, I don't find
myself attracted to them. But I try to keep my like labels
open to be a little bit more inclusive so.
A lot of like what I do and what I wear is based off of like sis
gay male culture. I pretty consistently wear
makeup and out of drag and find that I presenting effeminately
masculine is like just exactly what I always wanted to do.
OK, Jordan. Yes.
So when you said, Oh my God. So now I want to hear that
story. Drag in your identity.
OK, so in my, when I was on the show and I told my story, I told
my story. How drag.
It's the same way for me. Diana helped me become Jordan
because I I always wanted to be Jordan.
I just didn't know how to do it because I came from a kind of a
religious African American family.
I thought I, I didn't, I knew drag, I knew trans women.
I just didn't want to take that leap from Leonda Jordan.
So Diana took care of Jordan until Jordan was ready to
blossom. So that's where I use, I use
drag as an excuse and a way to put makeup on and wear dresses
until I one day just woke up and said, OK, I'm just going to be
Jordan. I love that.
Yes, Thomas is like, oh, she's here.
Such a beautiful story. Well.
Thank you. Yeah.
So yeah, I just said Diet. I said Leon protected Jordan and
then Dieta took over protecting Jordan and then Jordan finally.
Ryan, what have been some pivotal moments in your journey
of becoming like, some real moments where like, OK, this is
it, I'm on the right path. It just got to keep going and
move on. I would say I've had several and
especially where I'm at in my journey now, I can look back and
pinpoint. So like in my bio, as Caroline
said, you know, I'm the director of events for the metro trans
umbrella group. 8 years ago, I walked into a trans masculine
support group for them called the Locker Room.
And that was the first time I had seen other trans people that
looked like me, Like I, you know, I'm, I identify with being
like a plus size kind of guy. And none of the, none of the
trans people that were around me when I was in school looked like
me. You know, they didn't act like
me. They didn't, they didn't dress
like me. They were all kind of little
gremlin twinks, if you will. And so going to that first
meeting set off this whole domino effect of where I am now.
So I, you know, just started going to the support group and
then I became a volunteer for the organization.
And then down the line, I became the assistant to the previous
director of events and worked with him until COVID hit.
And then I got elected into my seat last April of 2024.
And I can see exactly at that moment that was going into that
support group was where I need it to be and where it's got me
to today. I would say going to that drag
show is the reason why Mars is here today too.
So it's like if you put it all on a timeline, it's funny enough
me going to the support group and me going to the drag show
were connected because the people that took me to the drag
show were people I met at group. OK.
That is amazing. I mean, yeah, the amazing,
amazing was like it's really nice how that is like the found
family that we all talk about. Like from the support to like
supporting in every way. Like not just like here come
experienced trans, but experienced trans joy.
Exactly. Yeah, that that was me.
That was really great. Yes.
Like what most do you think helps you feel affirmed and seen
and really grounded your identity like helps you know for
like 100% certain this is you like you talked a little bit
about I think before, but like if there is anything more
specific that you're like thinking of.
There still, I would say to this day, there still aren't very
many trans people that look like me.
And my biggest thing I like is to be that representation for
somebody who was like me that needed that.
But I just think being around so many gay trans men has really
helped because to go from being a lesbian to the complete
flipped opposite spectrum of it, it, it took me a while to like,
you know, deconstruct gender and sexuality from each other.
So I was like, oh, I'm going to transition to a boy that I guess
that means I could be bisexual, but probably should date women.
And being around other trans men that like love men really helped
and. So you know, last year you at
Trans National Pageant, a Trans USA pageantry, you won and
awarded the Advocate of the Year award and that's given for the
person who does the most advocacy throughout the year.
So what led you to community organizing and advocacy for the
community? It started really with being
part of the March against the anti drag legislation.
And granted, like I always have had a background in activism
work. You know, I was part of my high
school's walkouts for fair teacher wages.
That happened my senior year. And then you think the year
before that we had held a massive protest at our
administrative building when they tried to cut funding to the
arts. So being in the room where it
happens, so to speak, of making sure that justice is served has
been something I've always wanted to be a part of.
And so when the opportunity arose and the seat was open for
the director of events, well, I already had the background of
being the assistant. So I thought that it would be a
great opportunity to get in there and rebuild what COVID
took from M Tug. And I will say we have rebuilt
significantly. So some of the events that I run
and some of the things that I do, we have a yearly trans and
queer prom and last year we had the largest turn out we have
ever had to the prom itself, which made me cry.
And as Jordan has seen before, I'm very emotional.
I'll just cry at the drop of a hat.
She cries when her Mexican food is good.
That's so true. Yeah.
The sauce is just perfect texture.
I always, and then I always say this, that my job is to create
and sustain safe and affirming spaces for all trans and queer
people. And of course, that does extend
into our other allies to of like straight CIS folks.
Like if you're going to come in and be respectful, then I've got
a place for you to be. So creating that has been
monumental for me. And then Jordan and I were the
organizers together for the trance day of this ability March
that we had this year, which had I think almost 300 people at it.
I thought they had almost 1000 people in it.
I know we had thought about a small crowd and then the crowd
turned out to be phenomenal. Yeah.
Yeah, far about far beyond our expectations.
Which we're doing that again next year.
We're doing it again. We're having another March.
On the 29th of this month, don't forget.
On the 28th, don't forget. Oh, I won't.
Oh girl, I won't. I've been there's a sign that
Wes made because the day before the the teed off March, our
other Co organizer, Jay worked out with bar PM, which is one of
our gay bars getting us space. And then several of the other
gay bars donated money to all get us supplies to make posters.
So Wes made this sign that I wanted to carry during the
parade or the the March, but somebody else grabbed it before
I could. And it's the Missouri State flag
and it says show me state, show me love.
So I'm going to try and track that down.
Yes. I'd love that sign.
That is powerful message. Yes, it is.
It is. We also made one that references
Drag Race and it's got kind of like AI cut out a silhouette of
Trump on there and says look how fucking orange you look girl.
Love it. Yes.
So tell us about advocacy and pageantry.
What is that like and how do they, how do they go together?
And tell us a bit about Trans USA.
Oh, OK. So I would say not every
pageantry system has a background for advocacy, but I
do believe most people that do any kind of pageantry system has
some kind of want or drive to do advocacy, especially most of the
pageantry systems for drag, you know, involve predominantly
trans entertainers. And I guess that's just my
perspective of that of course. But specifically Trans USA, our
preliminary titles and our like prelim holders are chosen
because of the work they do in our communities.
So you have to be on the ground working already to have even
qualified to make it to nationals.
So what they are looking to do is uplift local community
leaders and organizers to then go compete to have kind of
national recognition and go in and help other people across the
country as well. That's Trans USA and I think
it's a phenomenal system. I actually have created a very
good relationship with the national director because last
year I, I dealt with some fat phobia in how I was judged.
And he, you know, we sat down and we talked a lot of it
through and he took everything that I said.
And so now the judges are going to be talked to more so about,
you know, how do you judge somebody that may not have your
body type, but like is modeling and it fits well.
And just because it doesn't fit you doesn't mean it does not fit
properly on that person. That's really helped, and having
a system that directly takes feedback is really, like,
amazing. Yes, so you don't have to look a
certain way because we both know that Trend USA is not a drag
pageant. It's a passion based on
community involved make humanity, organizing and
advocacy work. So that's why I enjoy going to
it and feel comfortable there. So when you're on stage at a
contest or a pageant like Trans USA is, is Mars different in
pageant mode than he is in entertainment mode?
I would say I walked this, I walked this fine line that
throughout at least in last year's pattern, because usually
in drag pageantry, I'm kind of in Mars head mode the whole
time. But because trans USA is not a
drag pageant, I'd say it's Ryan outside of the stage and in
interview, but it's Mars who gets on the stage.
And that's, you know, I find that kind of slipping into that
headspace makes me feel like the most confidence that I can be,
which is, I would say, yes, slightly different than
performance mode. My friends, and I think all of
you will laugh at this. My friends like to describe my
performance style in this one very specific way.
And it's that Ryan is a verse, but Mars is a bottom.
And when I when I asked them why and what does that mean, they go
well, Ryan walks with the purpose and Mars likes to
prance. OK.
I can see that Mars is kind of prissy sometimes.
I. See your particular.
Particular and Ryan can be a little county sometimes which I
love you know so yeah. So, so where do you see your,
your advocacy who are going and, and these horrible times that
we're having? Ideally, with my advocacy work,
I will hopefully be the next Mr. Trans USA and can expand out my
work quite a lot more than where it's at now.
I actually had an interview the other day for Trans USA and you
know, Scrappy, the current Mr. Trans USA, and I were talking
about it. I already have a plan in place
to help all of the contestants across all three divisions.
And one of the things I want to do is teach other people how to
build events what and like tailor it to their communities
and look around and see what is the what's needed the most.
So, and I'll go into this first part of what I want to do with
the contestants directly, and that's what I've been calling
it, the take what you need, leave what you don't series.
And so that teaches them hands on start to finish how to get
involved in your community. If you don't have that heavy of
a background all the way through, how do you get to the
national pageant on a budget? Because I've been there, done
that for many of many a pageant. And the other portion of
teaching the events would be having those contestants go out
into their community, ask around, what are you guys
needing? What do you want to see at an
event? What are spaces that you find
affirming that we could work with?
And then go from there. So if that is creating a trans
and queer prom, or it's a BBQ, or it is a performance art
festival, whatever it is that their community wants to see and
wants to be at, then they could do that.
And in that work, how have you seen that kind of blossom like
with with the people that you're you're engaging with?
I luckily I've been able to kind of do it here already before,
you know, because that's my plan with future contestants.
But I have several people here that I've already kind of
started teaching and doing that. I created and directed the metro
trans umbrella group royalty Pageant and that happened in
February of this year. So we have three amazing trans
folks from this area that one and each of them have to put on
a fundraiser. And so working with them and
teaching them how to curate their events to the community,
but also do something that they want to see that May not have
been there has been so fulfilling.
So we have our royalty court members, we have Miss M Tug is
Gloria good mix, M Tug is the Lucy Leon Fur and Mr. is Zane
Mossretti Steele. And I'll tell you, the three of
their ideas are so drastically different from each other, and
they all come from a very different background, like
Zane's especially. I love it.
He's a black trans man and he wants to do a Pride roller
skating party. And it's to honor how one how
his parents met. His parents met in a roller
skating rink, but to honor the black community and how they
used to come together in roller skating rinks as well.
That's really nice. I didn't know that about the
roller skating like connection with the black trans community.
Yeah, I, he has educated me on quite a few things that I also
was not aware of before, but I like, I'm really appreciative
of. And so I'm, I'm just so excited
to help him put this event together.
I think it's going to be a blast.
Zalusi is doing a trans and queer fashion show.
That sounds fun. Yeah.
And their whole background is sustainability.
They their entire package for the M Tug pageant was a lot of
things bought second hand and repurposed.
They're down that they had for evening wear was I want to say
they told me they got it on Facebook Marketplace for like
100 bucks. Girl, this dress, this dress was
gorgeous. Oh my God, it.
Was. It was.
So they want to because M Tug has what's called Alex's closet.
It's a free gender affirming closet named after a facilitator
for a non binary group expression spectrum who passed
away in 2018. And what we want to do is go
through the closet, get donations and put looks together
and have them work with designers throughout the
community who will do this as well and have trans folks model
on the stages and show what trans joy looks like directly in
clothing, but also showcasing sustainability within community.
Wow. I mean, that sounds fantastic.
And, you know, as Mr. Trans Midwest, what are some of the
challenges you faced here in the Midwest with advocacy work?
I would definitely say some of the biggest challenges has been
directly from the state of Missouri.
God bless these GOP assholes. I am going to murder them.
Oh God, don't say that. He's Ryan.
God, you can't say that. I'm going.
To have to edit that, I'm going to have to make sure I remind
myself to edit that out. Right.
Is that what you meant to say? Kill them with kindness.
I'm going to kill them, murder with them, with kindness, of
course. OK.
I need. To figuratively do something I
don't. Know good I never I never
stopped like that they're like well, but you well.
Right. All right.
And you're crazy. I love that.
Yes. The GOP, though, you know we
were here three years ago when they said they were not.
Right, I didn't see. You almost dead, you know, But
yeah, it's, it's, it's a, it's a pretty unfortunate space that
we're in. But, you know, it's not an
unfamiliar space. It's, it's, it's a space that
generations and, and our ancestors before, you know, they
have been in in precarious situations.
And so, you know what what we're needing to do now is to listen
to those that have been here that have that have fought
through and, and listen to the voices of marginalized people
and, and, and fight through this because it you know, there are
ways. It just takes a coalition of
community together. And and that's, you know,
something that obviously you're doing.
Ryan and Jordan, Mr. and Miss Trans Midwest, that's a fan
that's just, you know, I feel so honored to have both of you
here. Like this is thank you, Like
thank you for taking the time and and, and I'm just I'm so an
audience. Thank you for being here and
Ryan, you know, what a what a, what a space to be celebrating
your journey and your story amidst this, this, this flashes
hostile takeover and, and you know, where will it take us?
I, I don't know, you know, but but it's having these moments
together in community that that inspire and, and remind us that
although we're facing a, a heavy threat, this isn't the first
rodeo, at least not for us as a collective.
So, you know, voting that community.
It came for, you know, gay marriage and for sis gay folks
1st, and they're using a lot of the same rhetoric now that they
did then. So it's honest to God,
predictable and tired. And Jordan, what do you always
say? You said you were there.
First, we're here. We're queer.
Get used to it. Amen.
Because that we, we use that slogan in the late 70s, early
80s when everything was going, you know, when we had the same
predicament that we're in now. You know, people are trying to
race trans people, they're trying to write legislators that
we, that we can't be married. So no, we're here.
We're queer. Get used to it.
We ain't going nowhere. That's right, we're here to stay
and we're here to slay. Yes, we're here to stay.
We're going to slay. Oh, I.
Like that one just. King, we love that.
I'm sorry so. So as we are we on the wrap up
now or? Yes, I.
Oh, OK. Oh, no, I I think we still have
a little more to go. I think I have a couple of more
absolutely questions. For me now, I'm going to have to
remember to edit this part out too.
Sorry. Well, so excellent so.
Ryan, let me ask you this question.
You know, I, I, you know there's a new reality show out after
After almost 2 decades of Ru Paul's Drag Race, there's
finally exactly. Where this is going?
Yes, yes, you do. Of course.
It's about time, isn't it? You know and.
Absolutely. So I'm so excited for the show.
And, and we're excited for the work that you've been doing.
You know, you, you, you have a show.
What is it? King Awakening, am I right?
It is, yes. Tell us about that.
So king awakening is this culmination of my my dear friend
Andrew Genius who is one of my Co producers on it.
He when he he was in College in Nebraska, ran the first King
Awakening workshop and then he moved home after finishing
college. And it had, it had been
something that I wanted to do with other, you know, drag king
friends of mine, of running basically our own King boot
camp. And so we finally got to a
point, you know, Andrew and I had been talking about it for a
year and a half, two years. We couldn't find the time,
couldn't get the the gaggle of gays together, the gaggle of
gays. So we finally got to a point
where we could make the time to do it.
And Andrew, you know, talked to me and talked to our now other
Co producer and Co host, Lucky Charm Dickerson.
And so it's kind of an offshoot of the House of Valentino here
in Saint Louis. Very cool.
So Lucky and Andrew and I came together and we taught our first
workshop in January and we had almost 20 some odd people in the
class. And then how we do our workshops
is the following month is a showcase.
So that's one of the only things that interrupts our monthly
themes. So we got that done in February.
We took March as a plan and prep month.
And then in April we had the first official king awakening
with one of our themes. Our theme was divorce, Dad rock.
Oh nice, like how? How was that received?
So, well, it was a really packed house for that.
So we ended up, you know, I did you and Your hand from Pink and
I did Paralyzer. Andrew and I together did
Photograph from Nickelback and halfway through realized neither
of us fully know the lyrics to Photograph from Nickelback.
Lucky, lucky. Oh my God, let me tell you that
Andrew and I just adore him. He is such a dynamic entertainer
that has an eclectic taste, and so we're never quite sure what
he's going to pull out next. He ends up doing closer from 9
Inch Nails because he was like, I don't know if that's divorced
dad music. I said it is, do it.
Definitely. And he ended up pulling his wife
up on stage with him and almost giving her like, this, like,
sensual lap dance. And the audience lost their
shit. And like, I was hosting at that
point, I had just finished changing and I'm sitting there
going, Oh my God, Oh my God, Oh my God, it was so good.
So I'm very happy and excited to, you know, work with both of
them. And funny enough that you
brought up King of Drag, Andrew did apply to be on the 1st
season of King of Drag and unfortunately did not make it.
But Dick Van Dyke, who did make it onto this season, is a, a old
acquaintance of mine who I used to work with.
He's actually from Saint Louis and then since, you know,
leaving Saint Louis, he lived in Kansas City for a little bit and
then he's been up in Minneapolis for the last couple years.
When I talk. About an amazing entertainer.
Oh my God. Yeah, he was.
Actually, I saw him. He was at Kayla.
Yeah, Yeah, last year. So that's how I saw because I
attended Gala as a choral member.
So yeah, because I also sang. So yeah, it was a phenomenal
performance. Like whoa.
Yeah, he's an entertainer that I have looked up to since I
started drag. I've been just, I'm a fan of
everything he does. I think it's so well thought out
and just the way he engages with an audience makes my jaw drop.
It turns me on. It like makes me flushed.
And I'm and, you know, Dick is a lesbian out of drag.
So really I got to I got to be like, all right, let's let's get
away from this man. I think we lost Jordan.
Yeah, I don't know where Jordan went.
Oh gosh, now I got to edit that part out too.
It's OK, we continue on. The audience won't know she'll
be back. So.
So let me ask you, let me ask you, Ryan, what's something
powerful or surprising you've seen emerge from King Awakening
shows or workshops? You know, I remember where
someone stepped into themselves in a whole new way beyond what
you've already mentioned with, with, you know, these these
entertainers that you've mentioned.
What's something that really stands out in in the last in the
in the last bit of time? I think something that really
stands out and it actually it, it brought me to tears.
And then they brought, you know, Andrew and Lucky like really
emotionally as well, seeing people who have talked about,
you know, I'm not confident or I don't think I have the
confidence to do this and see them go out and do it anyway and
see them build themselves up and whether they're just performing
or whether they're building a concept, just pushing past their
fears. And we saw a handful of people
that were like that in the first showcase in February.
I think we're going to see our next showcase is actually this
month on the 28th because we are the only entirely King Show and
Pride weekend, which I'm very proud of.
And especially having our young entertainers, I hope they feel
just as proud as we are of them. I have to tell you this, we've
got a, we've got some stellar names for our entertainers for
this year. Or excuse me, this showcase,
we've got one named himmy Buffett.
Yeah, I got to pull this up because there's some good ones.
My, my friends Wes and Chip are also doing the showcase.
And so Wes's drag name is Weston Show.
Weston Show. That's and then Chip is Walter
Ego. Walter Ego.
Like there's some really good ones.
So Mars is your drag king persona?
Correct. So how do you how do you
describe the energy or essence of Mars?
What does he allow for you to express that Ryan might not?
Mars wears a lot more rhinestones than Ryan does.
Yes, quite a lot more. Which is funny because I do run
kind of a side hustle business where I rhinestone custom pieces
for other people. So you would you would think I
am also constantly covered in stones and the only time I am is
if they spill and they get all over me and then I'm finding
them all over my apartment for the next three weeks.
How has your How has your relationship with masculinity
evolved through drag? Has Mars helped you heal,
Reclaim. Reshape your understanding of
masculinity? Absolutely, like Mars has helped
me in so many ways of like pre transition.
I liked high fem like at times before I even went down the
masculine route. I like you know, flamboyant and
effeminate qualities in people. I like it myself being able to
go up on stage and covered in rhinestones or sequins or
wearing like a lace shirt. I like to wear fishnet shirts a
lot. Getting to do that and present
in a very similar way to like my ciske counterparts.
Do you know, in clubs is very healing for me.
It like makes it so much more approachable to present like
effeminate traits and it makes me just, it feels so good.
Is the best part for you of getting up and performing.
I it's the cheering crowd, but not for me.
Like, I mean like, I like that they're cheering for me.
Don't get me wrong. I like that they're having fun
and I'm somebody who feeds on an energy.
So if the crowd's got a great energy, then I'm like right
there with them. And I like, I like fucking with
them a little bit. Like usually if I, I'm taking a
tip, I like to, you know, I wasn't part of a drag family
until recently. So a lot of what I learned in
mannerisms and how to take tips I learned from Queens.
So, you know, I, you know, take the tip, give them a little
wing, give them a little kiss, like just blow them a little
kiss that way. Or like if there's a specific
part of a song like oh God, you in your hand when it's at the
very end, Oh, quit spilling your drink on me.
I literally like do the whole thing.
And I pointed out at an audience member, quit spilling your drink
on me. Like, I love giving them those
little moments. So drag Queens still don't get
mainstream visibility, at least not as much as drag Queens do.
What do you think people miss when they overlook King
artistry? I think they miss someone, some
phenomenal entertainers. But I think the other thing is I
find that being a king is to challenge traditional
masculinity, whether you know, somebody is presenting like how
I do very like high effeminate, or whether it's like Murray
Hill, who's the host of king of drag, where he is a little bit
more on the traditional I, I consider him more of a
traditional king. I think they miss any chance of
getting a new experience and expanding their horizons Because
I love, you know, I love a good queen.
I I love when they get to the Kaka de Kaka de Kaka and their,
you know, windmills and their donkey kicks, which I also do.
Yeah. You ever see a drag king do a
windmill and do a donkey kick? I can honestly say no, I have
not. So that's.
Then you got to come to one of my shows.
Wow. Yeah, that's amazing.
I I'm of the belief anything a queen can do, I can do too.
Yes. But I think they miss such a
like, also historic form of queer art.
Like open it up, you know? Gender is something to be played
with, and if you're only going to look at the feminine side you
are missing so much. As someone who mentors and
uplifts other entertainers, what advice would you give to those
little baby kings who are just starting out?
Find a way to pump yourself up because that's what I do before
a show is, you know, whether that's listening to your music,
whether that's, you know, kicking with your, your cast
mates in the dressing room while you're getting ready, Pump
yourself up and create that connection because I guarantee
you that's what's going to keep bringing you back in Like, and
that's how you build the relationships.
That's how you really start to get a feel for who your your
drag persona is. Has there been some like baby
drag kings that have been like really nervous starting out and
then something that you said to them was just like, oh, yeah,
like there is the the catch or do you?
Is it mostly the people who are like hungry, ready to go?
A lot of the people that have done the workshop are kind of
already hungry and ready to go because a lot of them, you know,
they talk about, they've been thinking about this for a while.
This isn't, it's not something that they take lightly.
I guess I, one of the ones I, I from this most recent workshop
that I, I really noticed was Nat, who is performing under the
name Dante Inferno. I love that name.
I know I love that name too. They kind of came into the class
and they seemed a little like, OK, I'm going to hang out in the
back and they didn't ask very many questions.
And then we did a portion of like teaching stage presence and
like how to properly take tips and everything.
And I was not expecting Nat to, like, pop off the way that they
did. They got on that stage.
They said, oh, my God, You Can Dance.
And so it was, you know, it's the quiet ones that always get
ya. Yeah.
That's true in a lot of things, too.
So what does what does trans liberation look like from the
stage and what does it look like from behind the curve?
You mean? You've already touched on that
so much, but tell us a little more.
I in my perspective, so when I started drag, I hadn't had top
surgery yet. So my trans liberation moment
was like the first time, you know, after I'd had top surgery
and was performing, was able to pop my shirt open and like not
have to worry about, you know, laws and nip slips.
And I mean, my nipples were still out, but I like to call
them my Gucci nipples. That was.
That was pure trans liberation for me.
And behind, behind the curtain and especially in the workshop,
you know, we teach about not just what people think a drag
king is. So usually, you know, they, they
think, oh, a drag queen is a man dressed as a woman or, you know,
a king is a woman dressed as a man.
We really teach that background of, you know, trans people have
always been very involved with drag.
And the majority, not all, but the majority of the kings that I
am aware of are trans in some way or another.
And a lot of the Queens are as well.
Would you agree with me on that, Jordan?
Yes, I do. Yeah, I, I think, you know,
teaching that from the start so people kind of understand what
they're walking into, and also that this could be a time to
educate on like trans identities and maybe help somebody figure
out who they are. Yes.
Brute drag. Like we all did, yeah.
So you're now Mr. Trans Midwest 2025, the former a mentor, an
organizer, and you've already been honored as an outstanding
advocate. That's the legacy work in
motion, Ryan. If you zoom out, ask the
pageants, pass the applause, what does legacy truly mean to
you? Legacy for me is making sure
that once I'm gone or, you know, once I, I need to step away from
the work for a bit, that those safe and affirming spaces are
still being created and that, you know, marches are still
being organized and people still have a place to come and be
safe. I think that's the biggest thing
for me. When When people speak your name
years from now, whether it's Mars, Ryan, or both, what do you
hope they remember, feel, or even carry forward?
And more importantly, what are you consciously trying to leave
behind for the next generation of trans leaders in drag?
King stepping into the light. I think I want them.
I want to be remembered for helping, like, as as many people
as I could have, like anybody who I crossed paths with.
I had hope in some way or another, whether it's more
profound or less, that I could have helped them.
That's beautiful. So in these trying times, my
final question to you is what does pride mean to you this
year? Pride to me this year,
especially with, you know, the current government and federal
bullshit. Pride is a protest and but, and
I always especially put that but.
What is what should we do to protest this year?
What is what what? And its pride in its selfless.
With the protest and Pride especially, you know, we're
doing the the protest on the 28th.
But with the protest, I do think people need to remember that we
can't be fighting all the time, that there is a time for rest
and there is a time for celebration.
And I do think Pride can be both a protest and a celebration.
And that's where I was going with my butt is that especially
we've been in our community having a lot of backlash because
price St. Louis, you know, has now had a
$10 cover to get into pride to help sustain the organization
going further after, you know, several major corporate sponsors
backed out. And I read that press release, I
thought it made total sense. But the amount of people in our
community that are saying, oh, we shouldn't have to pay for
this, Pride was a protest. Why are we doing this?
But they're also the same people that if Pride got any smaller,
they'd be bitching about it too. They bitched that it was too
corporate. They bitched when we're asking
for community help. You can't have it both ways.
And remember that Pride is the protest and it's a time for us
to celebrate. And if putting some money down
is going to help continue that and sustain it, then so be it.
I will do it. And sometimes people don't read
the whole press release because we're actually giving away free
tickets. If you can't, no one will ever
be turned away from pride, regardless of your financial
situation. And, and, but they don't read
that part. They go, oh, it's $10 on my pin.
But this is the kick that gets, that burns my butt, is that
people will go to different cities and pay 30 and $40 A, to
get it all Pride or B, to get into a, a club.
Remember, remember when we tried to charge cover charges here in
Saint Louis? Everybody pitched about that.
But yet you go to New York, you got to pay $30 in the club and
they'll gladly shell out that money and not say one word about
it. We have to change the mentality
here in Saint Louis that everything should be free.
It's not free. Free people think all the money
goes to entertainment. No.
There's security, there's fencing, there's advertising,
there's security, there's the stage that has to be put up.
Yep. All cleaning up too, yeah.
And the cleaning up and the porta potties.
We don't feel you full of liquor, but give you know where
to. Yeah, yeah.
So they don't mention. Think about all those things.
Sorry about that, I got on the tangent for a moment.
Well, you know, I love the tangents.
So you mentioned the 28th, the protest.
What are you showing up for? What are you showing up for as
much as what you're showing up against?
What's the dream beyond just the resistance?
I'm showing up for the people that were like me, that were
trans kids and that are now trans adults and showing that,
you know, we can live past youth.
I'm going to be honest, like I didn't think I was going to live
past 18 years old. And now I'm 26.
And I want them to see, you know, you can grow up to be a
fulfilled and happy trans adult. I love that.
How do you how do you hold space for joy in a world trying to a
racist? How do you stay connected to
celebration without the fire, the protests going out?
I tried to get away from social media to like, hold on to my
joy. You know, I, I, I'm very
particular about how much media I consume all at once so I don't
send myself down a spiral. But I also, and I actually just
had this conversation with my board vice president, Jessica.
I was with her in New York City this weekend.
I went to Lambda Legals Liberty OH.
My God, Lambda. Legal at the awards, they had
Commander Schilling come up and she was the the fighter pilot
who sued Donald Trump. And a lot of what the awards
were talking about is fearlessness and fearlessness
and fearlessness. And something she said that
really struck me was you should feel fear and you should be able
to feel that. And you know where this LED into
the conversation with Jessica, If you if you don't know Jessica
Hicklin, I think she would be phenomenal for this, for this
podcast, like, and she's just amazing.
We talked about what does it look to be in fear while also
being in leadership. And for me, I don't want the
people that I protect to see it out of me.
But that does not mean that I'm not scared.
And that does not mean I can't talk to my colleagues about it
and, you know, get the support that I need while also still
supporting others. How can our audience find out
more about you and stay in contact and keep up to date with
your work? Yeah, so you can find me under,
you know, the same name on Facebook.
Please shoot me a message before.
Do not just add me and then on Instagram I've got a personal
drag account and a a a drag account.
So my personal account is at Delirium Knight KNIGHT not not
like night time. And then my drag account is at
Mars dot drag. Awesome.
Wow. Yes, Jordan, Kevin, Brian, I've
really enjoyed this time that we've had here, Ryan.
It's been, it's been so nice. This has been.
Thank you so much for being here with us today, you know.
Thank you so much for having me, I really appreciate it.
Thank you for coming on. This has been a really great
time talking with you, Ryan and Jordan as well.
And Caroline and one big happy trans narrative.
That's right. Speaking of a Speaking of Trans
Narrative, if you'd like to be a part of this program, please
e-mail us at Trans Narrative podcast@gmail.com.
That's transnarrativepodcast@gmail.com.
And I will reply swiftly and get you in my spreadsheet.
You know, I just, I just want to say audience, thank you for
being here. Thank you for giving us your
time and your attention and just being here with us present and
in these conversations. It really does mean so much.
And, and I see that and, and thank you for showing up.
And Jordan, thank you for being here, Kevin and, and, and Ryan.
Kevin, before we go, do you have any final thoughts or anything
you'd like to say, any questions you'd like to ask Ryan before we
depart? Thank.
You for showing up in our community, and thank you for
being a voice of power and persistence.
So, yeah, thank you. This is going to make me cry.
Jordan wasn't kidding. I cry at everything.
Everything. Yes, Jordan.
Yes, and my love. My sweet Jordan, oh gosh, I'm so
happy. Turn the camera on for a minute
so I can see it. Thank you.
You got extra time for me because my flights been delayed.
I guess there's. Storms got delayed.
I guess there's storms in in Saint Louis and so they delayed
it now. So thank you.
That's always here, and I always love being on this podcast with
you, Caroline, and with Kevin and Ron today.
I'd love the purpose of this podcast is to tell trans stories
because we need to give more of our stories out there.
And God bless you, Caroline, for getting us this platform to tell
our stories. It's, it's truly a joy to to
spend the, the weeks here with, with the audience and you and,
and everyone here. Jordan, do you have any final
questions you'd like to leave us with?
Ryan, anything like that? Just just I know Ryan, and Ryan
is a true and true advocate through and through.
He works very hard for the community.
He don't take no shit off nobody.
And whenever I need a March, he's my March partner.
I know I can count on him to take our streets over and I
appreciate him for that. Because they're whose streets.
Are streets well? I I appreciate you, Jordan,
Kevin, thank you all so much for being here audience again.
It's a pleasure or joy Ryan, as we as we carry on this week in
the part, who would you like to leave our audience with to just
to carry on this week? What's the message?
What are you leaving us with? The same thing I said in my
speech at the The Trans Day Visibility March, that despite
everything going on, the trans and queer people will find joy
in the darkest of times, and that we have to put our best
foot forward to make sure we still get that joy.