Hi everyone, welcome back to this week's episode of Inside
Thoughts Out Loud. I am super excited to talk to
Ani and I and Sanyo, the founders of Kolkata Chai.
For anyone who is South Asian like me, you have stayed aware
of Kolkata Chai because it invigorated you.
It lit a fire inside of you of realizing how important certain
cultural references are. There's some things that we just
grew up with and when we see it in an unadulterated form
presented to us in the the United States, we we go crazy,
it goes viral. And that's exactly what
happened. They have grown Kolkata Chai to
be so much more than just a viral moment, but rather a
steadfast representation of just how important some of our
culture can be here in the United States.
So welcome Ani and I and Sanyo, I'm going to let you guys.
I said founders, but I'm going to let you guys do a quick intro
of exactly what you do for Kolkata Chai.
Sure. So we're brothers and that makes
it pretty easy to kind of split the business in the things that
we do well. Does it make it easy?
Yeah, we we've been. Because my sister and I would
never in a million years be able to run a big.
Company this a long time now so I.
Think the best part about working with your sibling is
knowing what they're good at and knowing what you won't touch and
vice versa. So everything you see at the
cafe level, the products, the, the cafes, the, the menu, the
flavors, that's all iron. Iron is a product guy.
So the entire idea for Coco the Chai was irons.
He was growing up Chai for his roommates, you know, 7-8.
Nine years ago. Yeah, nine years ago in New
York. In New York.
In New York, yeah. So everything you see at the
cafe level, the the product level is him.
And then branding, marketing, social fundraising, all of
that's on my side, so we split it right down the middle.
And we talked about this off camera, but I'm gonna bring it
up again. Who's older?
I am older, I don't know where people you know get get the.
I'm bigger so but. Yeah, I'm old.
Do you? Guys fit the stereotypes of
like, is there another sibling? There, it's just the two of us,
OK? There's not another sibling.
And we've hit the stereotypes. I think we got it out of the way
early on. We were always very close.
We also fought a lot. Yeah.
What's? The age gap between years.
Four years. Four years.
Yeah, OK. Yeah, but I was the I was the
kid that had to like burn everything down with my parents
so that, you know, I ain't had it easy.
It's like the House of Minaj younger sibling me.
And, you know, it's like I was skateboarding, listening to rap,
sagging my pants, you know, doing all.
Types of things in my household. It's it's the opposite like I
was the still am the very straight edge eldest daughter of
immigrant parents did everything but I mean, I'm a surgeon for
Christ's sake. Like I did everything I was
supposed to do. And my sister, who ironically is
also a surgeon and we're a family of but definitely like
tested the waters and and incredibly bright, but really
like created her own path on her terms, which I think which is
which I just think is funny. Yeah.
No, I, I was, I was the, I was your older.
I was your sister in our in that situation, yeah.
Yeah, yeah. So when you conceived of Kolkata
Chai, did you know that it was going to grow to be what it is
today? So your question, I think we
knew it was going to be big. I think once we we started with
doing like small pop ups around the city.
And it was just like it seemed at that time there's this like
cultural awakening of being, you know, a third culture kid kind
of wanted to represent your parents and and what they came
from and then also kind of integrating and that into
American pop culture. And nothing like that had really
existed before. And so there was like a really,
it was a large need for it. I mean, truly nothing like that
had existed. I remember seeing the stories
come across my feed and I I it was almost like embarrassing
because I'm thinking for how many years have people decades
have people been ordering Chai tea latte?
It's just the term Chai. Chai tea drives me insane
because it's repetitive because tea and Chai are the same thing.
So I'm just going to throw that out there for anyone listening
is not following that part, but it's Chai and it had, it has
become clearly the flavor profile was necessary because so
many versions of it had come out, yet we didn't have the
original, right. Yeah, I think we had conviction
in what we were doing, but I don't think we set out knowing
that we would be here today. I think there's parts of this
journey that we could have never seen coming, but I think since
it was just the two of us putting 1 foot in front of the
other for, you know, this like the first couple years, it
almost felt like it would be as big as we were going to work at
it, if that makes sense. And and so, you know, if you had
asked us, you know, early on, like, hey, is how's Minaj going
to invest in your business? And, and come on, we would have
said, you know, no, you know, that's not yeah, he's, he's
great. And we can talk about him.
He's incredible. But, you know, it's like
elements of this journey are just totally, you know, foreign
to us. But I think we really bled out
for this business, you know, for the first couple of years and.
Who supported you the most in the beginning?
We supported each other. Ourselves.
Yeah, it was fun. How did your parents feel about
this? Yeah, our parents.
What are you doing? Yeah, our parents are right.
I had a feeling you were going to say that.
I had a feel. But say, tell me more.
Yeah, go. Ahead yeah, our parents today
are extremely proud and they understand it because it's it's
you know, it's an establishment in some.
Ways. They were never not supportive.
But I think, you know, with immigrant parents, you have to
give them a lot of grace because it's like, what are they going
to do? Like how, how can they support
other than pick up the phone, you know, listen to you or tell
you it's going to be OK or, you know, give you their two cents.
There's not too much they can do.
Well, it's an interesting, I'm trying to think who I was
speaking to about this, but it it's, it was that, you know, my
parents came to this country. They're an engineer and a
doctor, and my dad is an engineer in every lifetime.
I mean, it's just, it's the core of who he is.
My mother, though, a doctor, a successful one, did great.
But I think if left to her own devices, like if she was born in
this country, I wonder what she would have done.
I mean, she's just elegant and she's beautiful and she's into
fashion and she has all these ideas and she's a great speaker.
And like we always joke she's like the shaman of our local
Indian community because she just does this healing vibe and
that's who she is. And I, they didn't have that
luxury. They were these things because
that is what defines success for them.
And if they were going to cross the ocean to come here, they
were going to do these traditional successful things,
right? So I'm lucky because sure, I did
the the prototypic thing that the Indian daughter was supposed
to do, but now I have all this opportunity to do what I want to
do. And had I done it in reverse?
Had I not become the surgeon first?
Had I gone to mom and dad and be like, OK, I'm going to be an
influencer. We're going to link makeup
products. No, no, hear me out, hear me
out. I'm going to have a podcast
soon. Like go to school, be quiet.
What are you talking about? Because for them it's like, I
didn't come here for you to have fantasies.
But what I think our our whole generation of parents are
learning is that is exactly where they came.
Here. So I was going to say I would, I
would push back a bit and say that's exactly why they did come
here. And so for us, like we, we ran a
business before this, we ran a marketing agency together.
And so we only know kind of that route.
We never had like a safe career in anything and there was never
like a, you know, I think our parents.
Guess what we have? Interruption.
Delivery I was not going to have you guys here and not have
Kolkata Chai. So I ordered a potpourri of
things we can talk about the flavor profiles because kudos.
I mean just reading the menu, like my heart is singing,
cardamom, saffron masala, like these things that just we grew
up with. Yeah, no, I love this.
Thank you so much. OK, what do we have here?
We have two iced oat milk chives.
The best selling item. Is that the number one item?
OK. All right.
Who wants 1? You wanted one, I'll take one.
This one. Let me tell you what else we
have so you can pick. We also have a cardamom latte
and we have a we have two masala chives.
Amazing. Which one you want?
Thank you. You love a masala, Chives.
I think that's the small cup. Yeah.
I want a masala Chai. Go.
For it, go for it, it's all yours.
And then those two are left for you guys.
Amazing one. Well, we, I drink it all the
time, so I'll be like. I'll take a rush.
Yeah, no rush. Do this.
I'll pass this, got the roll back to you but I will be
inhaling this later. Thanks guys.
Yeah. Thank you so much.
OK. Yeah.
So you were already so marketing out very much like an atypical
career choice for children of first generation immigrants.
But again, you know, if we're going to talk about the
diversity bonus and all of that, who better than us because we
really get how diverse and unique our generation is.
Sure. So you guys were doing that and
then brother, little brother comes to you and he's like,
we're starting a Tri company. Yeah, let's talk about.
This you said. You said what?
I said hell no. I said.
I didn't say hell no. I said do what you want, I'm too
busy. We.
Were so like. How successful was the
marketing? It was doing really well.
Yeah, we were doing really well. I had like travelled remotely.
I spent like a month in Italy and France and was like getting
my culinary inspiration on over there.
But like, we were working, we were making some money finally.
And then I was just like, I want to do this thing.
And Annie was like, I don't believe in it.
And what made you doubt it? I think for us, you know, we had
built this life earning decently, you know, being able
to employ other people, working on really cool stuff at the
agency. And food in Bev was like this
thing that was a totally different lifestyle.
You got to work with your hands, you got to be on your feet.
You got to, you know, it's just. It's just an entirely different
market, right? I mean, for me, that's what
influencing was. I'm like, I know how to be a
doctor. I don't know what this is.
Still did it, but it was not. Yeah, we had no experience in
food. And Beth, you know, there's no
one in our family that comes from the restaurant world.
There's there's there was 0. This is.
Delightful. I just OK continuously.
No, that's that's that's the first SIP reaction is is
everything. Oh my God this is so good.
So yeah, it just felt like, it just felt like a why disrupt
something that's working, you know, like why blow this up with
this like pie in the sky idea and then.
Yeah, so I was like, and then he kind of egged me on because
Annie is. So when Annie taught me how to
ride a ride a bike, he just pushed me off a hill and he was
like, you'll figure you are. The older brother so.
He definitely is the older brother.
I believe. That So with this thing, he was
like, I was like, oh, like there's a farmers market.
Like, I have to go to the City Hall and get like, he's like,
you're not going to do it. And like kind of brush me off.
And I was like, so I went and actually did it.
And then for every Sunday we'd set up, I had set up the farmers
market. Make Chai.
Who's recipe? Went to U-Haul my recipe, some
of my mom's we don't really make masala Chai.
Like we drink tea in our household every single day, but
it's usually like the British style tea and then masala Chai
was really like we'd go out to get.
And where did you source the ingredients?
All from India. So the tea that we got was a
organic CTCT from Asam and all the spices, cardamom, cinnamon
are all kind of grown in India as well, OK.
Have you changed the ingredient deck since you started or or
formula? No, we haven't.
We have changed the recipe. And so over time I realized that
people like to try here really Milky and Calcutta, like our
Bengali Chai is a little bit more watery and a little bit
more tea forward. And so we noticed that one like
this. Is very South Indian by the way,
because I think South Indians like we take our Chai quite
Milky. Oh.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we kind of.
Say South Indian that's there's a.
Lot of like even. Thummel Teas.
Even on the West Punjab and all that stuff, it's like a very
Milky, Milky Chai. And so we kind of adjust the
recipe to be a little bit more like a little bit heavier, a
little bit more still tea forward, but a little bit more
kind of Milky or thicker. Yeah.
But it's, yeah, so fascinating to hear because I hear like how?
Are you going to open a branch in Los Angeles?
Let me tell you how fast is. Poppin working on it.
We're just on the West Coast actually, so.
Yeah, we just got back from the West Coast on.
We were there earlier this week. So think through things, yeah.
Yeah, Lai want to be on Abbott Kinney, that's my.
My that would be a great spot, definitely.
Right in the thick of it, but yeah, yeah.
So, yeah, these things just like kind of developed over over
time. And then we did it at the
farmers market. And then you started coming
along, you'd start showing up a little bit more and looking at
the lines and be like, huh, His business opportunity minds
started going off and then, you know, we started doing more kind
of like pop ups and then, you know, eventually open the cafe.
When you were doing the farmers market, the pop ups, what was
your scaling plan? Did you have a plan?
No, our plan was to create the best product and then to see
what the market opportunity was actually like.
That was something that I think we we like.
It's so funny when you are first starting off, you're creating
your own blueprint and your own rubric for like what makes
sense. There's this entire world of
like business people who are like, you know, lean whatever
methodology and this and that. There's all these like terms,
you know, I. Feel like you have to ignore all
that shit. Yeah.
I mean, you know, it's always a balance.
I think life is always a balance of everything.
But I sell that to say, you know, we had 30-40 people at the
farmers market showing up every day.
OK, well, that turned to 80. We need a pop up.
We had 100 people. And then the next pop up we had
400 people and the next we had, you know, 600 people.
And so it became this thing where we were like, is there
enough of a validation in the market to put money down for a
lease? Again, 2019 New York City, this
renaissance that we live in now, South Asian cuisine did not
exist. Did not exist, but the reason I
so I have a skin care company and I got a lot of advice from
people on how to do it. And again, like all the terms
that you hear with a startup and, and I'm self funded and
what I think that you guys did, which is what I did.
There was a lot of what's your market analysis?
What's going to be what's the in in beauty?
You always talk about white space, right?
Like what, what void do you fill?
And I kept saying there's nothing like this on the market.
You can run whatever. What are you going to analyze?
We don't have comps for what I'm trying to do.
And people they get so nervous when you say that they think
you're delusional. They think that you're, you
know, your heads in the clouds and I did what you guys did,
which is I'm just going to do it.
I'm going to test the I'm going to do my own market analysis by
bringing it to market. I'm going to create my own
little market. I'm going to see what sells, how
well it sells. I'm going to try a couple of
different marketing things and if it sucks, I'll know.
And at most, if I lose X number of dollars as well, I have a
backup job, it'll be fine. But if it works well, then I can
think about the next step, which is scaling.
Which is why I said I kind of feel like to hell with it
because so many people give you advice and they'll want you to
do all of these. And what are you, who are you
going to compare to with the Chai business, right?
Right. Yeah.
I think the advantage that we had was we had our own capital
to an extent to kind of like make a make these decisions that
we wanted to make. Yeah, having money saved up from
the agency and just like really not caring about a plan BI mean
looking back, it was insane like.
We was insane. Screenshots of our bank.
Is the blueprint. But that's what I would, I would
say is I'm very similar stories, all the different industries.
I think that has become the blueprint because when you're so
ferociously dedicated, you're just going to make it work.
Like you don't know how, but you're going to make it work.
And if you fail, it is because you literally tried everything
and it's your own capital. You're not, I don't owe anybody
anything. Nobody's asking me questions.
That, I think is the blueprint. But like we weren't just yelling
out and to a void like we were getting feedback and we were
seeing the pop ups every day getting bigger and bigger every
time we we did it. And so.
We did get like positive feedback from that and and I
think that was really encouraging for us initially
because past lives we've been built artists, right?
We've been both I play guitar and Ani used to produce a rap
group. And so like when it comes to
music is really interesting because when you're in front of
a crowd and like you do your thing, you get media feedback if
people are feeling you or not. And like we've been in a lot of
the situations. I think just the ability to
gauge like people's excitement and novelty and.
But sometimes I think you can't gauge that until you do it.
And so the amount of effort I see in other people, again,
running the analysis and looking at the market and creating
different scenarios and situations like why don't you
just do the damn thing? Yeah, and see what happens.
And yes, it takes a certain amount of capital to do that
because you're never really going to know because that real
time feedback you get, I think at least for me is, is super
critical. No, 1000% I think that was,
yeah. And that was our way of piercing
it together, right? People always like, oh, why
don't you guys have, you know, 50 try cafes across America?
And it's like, well, why are you still validating parts of that
market? And since we do it in our own
kind of systematic way, you kind of have to trust the process
that got you here and then know kind of when to mature that
process. So yeah, there's a lot of doing
1 pop up turn to, you know, these these bigger
opportunities. And at some point, the biggest
question was like is there an opportunity to open brick and
mortar? And that was the last thing I
think we wanted to do. We had no intention of in.
New York City. You know, ever taking on a lease
because it's very scary, right? Once you do that, you can't back
out of that. And then I don't remember what
the moment was. Was it that that Brooklyn pop up
that kind of like put us over the edge?
I saw the space and I guess that was later.
That was later. Literally, it was the smallest
space. And this is where the the
Chinese came from today. It's our East Village location.
And it was like the small space that we could find.
And I was just like, we'll make this work.
Yeah. And it was just, it was kind of
just like a very instinctive, intuitive thing, which I do not
recommend opening brick and mortar that way at all.
I think you should definitely hire someone that's done it, or
like talk to someone that's done.
It Yeah, we we may disagree here.
It's three blocks from here, funny enough.
Yeah, I think, I think it takes a certain personality type, but
I think people who find themselves in these creative
extensions of real ideas tend to have really good gut instinct.
Yeah. That's a.
That's a great way to to phrase it.
Yeah. So I listen to my gut to a
fault, except not to a fault, because I.
Perfect. I make all.
Of the right decisions and am in fact the eldest daughter of of
immigrant parents to AT. But it's something my husband
had to really get used to because I will just say it with
such conviction and I will not. I mean, he gives me feedback.
I'm like, no, no, it will simply work.
And he's like, this sounds crazy.
And we'll look back and he goes, I don't know how you got that,
but that was right. And I think going back to our
parents, I think who they are is a lot of why so many of us are
like this, like watching them play by the rule book, do all
the things, build a comfortable life, right?
Give us what we needed. So we have that.
We're smart, we know how to work hard.
We watched our parents do all these things, but now we get to
explore this whole thing that they didn't get to, which is
creativity and culture and social experimentation.
All these things that they just, they did not have bandwidth or
capacity or even interest to do that.
They were just making the money, raising the kids, doing the
things, taking care of their parents.
So now we get to take all of what we got from them, which is
that the work ethic and the intelligence, and then take it
10 steps further, which I think is cool.
Absolutely, Yeah. I think one more point and we
can we can move on is I think for businesses that come from a
cultural perspective, cultural point of view, and it doesn't
have to be diaspora culture. It can be any kind of, you know,
first Gen. culture since nothing exists as a precedent for that.
Investors, consumers, you know, the larger market, everyone's
always confused. And that's something that, you
know, we think a lot about where, yeah, you know, Starbucks
has been selling Chive for 20-30 years in this country, but.
When you know, an authentic kind of cultural concept comes along,
people are like they're suddenly confused and or don't believe in
in the market for it. And I think that's just like as
a cultural founder, that's the challenge that's in front of
you. That's the hurdle and you have
to find a way to get through that.
I don't think there's any. Like you can't cry about it, you
know, You can't be like, oh, like, you know what was me like?
Well. You become the proof of concept.
If you really want to build that thing for your, you know,
culture for the first time, you have to find a way forward.
So I think that's what we did. And then today you look around
and there's so many kind of like similar concepts.
I think it's like very rewarding for us to see that.
I think, you know, it's, it's tricky because we set out to be
like, Hey, we want to inspire people to do this.
And now, now people are doing it, you know, and it's like they
don't. Always copy pasting.
Yeah, they're cop. There's some some people are
copy pasting the concept better than the original, you know, and
that's The thing is like, you know, often imitated, never
duplicated. And you know, we we take pride
in like. That's what we wanted.
So I don't know. We can't really complain.
That's what I'm saying. I also think, and again, just
speaking from my own experience, even when people do that, it
just forces me to even that much more hone in on exactly what my
craft is, why I do it better, how I do it better, and then
evolve, right? Which is which is what
capitalism was meant to be, right?
OK. And then enter Hassan Minaj.
When? Why?
How? It's a big leap.
A lot happened between OK. Fill in the gaps.
We opened our second location.
Open our second location. Our first location we opened six
months before COVID. And that was the East Village 1.
That was the East Village 1 and that was when we talk about
conviction and kind of like a true test of do you believe in
your concept? You boost shop a location, New
York City shuts down, you know what next?
And so that really taught us how to, if you believe in something,
what does that actually require? And it required a lot.
We we did pivot the business to having an online CPG element as
well. Yeah, I was going to ask about.
That so that you know that really took off and then we
opened our second location in 2023.
Whose idea was the the Chai kits, The home kits?
We had it on our like. Yeah, we were always going.
To do that dream. COVID accelerated that.
Yeah, and COVID was like, oh, we got to do it right now.
Yeah. So then we opened in the heart
of Solo in 2023. That was a very important moment
for the brand. It was like, you know, we
thought we knew virality and it's just things went to
another. Level.
Oh yeah, it was all over my feed.
Yeah. And that was exciting because I
think, you know, we as young founders, it was like you had
opened his first location and just been battered by COVID for
2-3 years. Like there was no normal, right?
Like it was like, you know, and remember, like up until 2022,
like that was still a thing, like you in New York.
Before we're really going out. Yeah, New York seating, you
know, outdoor seating indoors, it was just, it was just a mess.
And so it was almost like this refresh and this re imagination
of what it could be and. It had been a minute since
people made it out to have a coffee experience for dining.
Exactly. And then kind of from second
cafe to Hus and any anything else I'm missing kind of key
moments. Well, I think, I think the
second cafe kind of put us on his radar a little bit more.
And then we have a mutual friend and Econ who kind of had been
bringing it up and just like, yeah, you got to check these
guys out. Just like come have a try.
Did you want, did you want the investor?
Did you want the celebrity? Did you want the cultural?
Like, did you? Because it sounds like you
didn't need any of that. No, we we're a little bit
insular to a fault sometimes as two brother, you know, we've
just we've had to shoulder so much of this.
We're just like, as long as we're in it and we're good.
We don't need anybody else. And that may or may not be, you
know, that that may be like a thing, something we need to
mature on. But look, early on, Mindy Kaling
was, you know, engaging with the content and we were like, oh,
dope, cool, She likes it. Move on.
And we had, what was it like Zoe Kravitz?
And, you know, like you're, you're kind of like New York
celebrity runs. They would come to the cafe and
it was like, oh, cool, guess who's here today.
Move on. Hassan comes by one day with
with our mutual friend Anique. And we're just all kind of
hanging out, having Chai. And really he was just like
running his like new jokes on us.
Like it wasn't we didn't talk about anything with what's
called the Chai and it was like cool.
We got to meet Hassan and it was fun and he enjoyed theCHIVE move
on. Like it was always kind of like,
you know, focus on business. Never felt like we needed.
It doesn't sound like you needed it, so that's.
I think we never even thought about it.
I don't know why. Like I think that it's a good
and a bad thing. I think when you're like, you
know, no sort of the grindstone, whatever that term is, it's like
you're just you're just doing the things that you need to do.
But yeah, I can tell the whole story.
I can tell the short story, short story long.
I get AI get Adm from us in like a couple months after we meet at
the cafe and he's like, call me. I got an idea.
And I was like, OK, well, you know, like we have a lot of
respect for him. Just kind of seeing his journey
as a parallel to what we've done.
We've kind of been apparel to what he's done, but he's taken
stories from the margins and made the mainstream.
Absolutely. I mean, I saw him live in LA.
It was last year. And you know, he makes these
jokes that you think like, I'm only people like me could get
it. Like who?
But it's such a diverse crowd, people, people from many
different unique backgrounds all laughing at the joke that I
thought would only resonate with like the child of an immigrant,
right. And so if that's true and you
translate that, then it doesn't just have to be things for
Indian people. Correct.
And that, and that was like the thing that we respected about
him from the beginning. He was just very much like, for
my culture to be seen, respected and understood properly, it
needs to be accessible. And we've always taken the same
approach, you know, to KCC. And so he DMS me, we don't end
up talking for another couple months.
And he was just like, I want to hear more about what you guys
are doing. I'm interested in being a part
of it. And I was like, OK, you know,
again, like us being like these kind of like no frill founders,
like we just, we just never, you know, had the space for that.
I meet with him November 23. We we got lunch.
We went went to his house and hung out and kind of like got to
know each other And I called I and after and I was like, house
wants to be a part of this, but I'm not really sure.
And my, our gut instinct was like, are we ready to have a
third brother? Like that wasn't really on the
in the plans. And I'm really happy that, you
know, we brought him on. Hudson is an incredible, you
know, person, high integrity, high character.
Everything that he could have done gone above and beyond for
us, from the day that we started even talking three years later,
he's always gone above and beyond.
And when we talk about like celebrity partners, all the
horror stories that happened kind of in the CPG, you know,
startup world, like I could not have a different experience.
Like Hudson is just he's incredible.
And so there's a lot we did with him.
We went on tour. We, you know, we launched.
Let's talk about going on tour because I feel like that was
such a. Unique experience.
OK, what did he do? Like, what was it?
That was because you guys already had something.
So I'll, I'll, yeah. That was his first idea.
He was like, I want to have he's like community and
commiseration. He's like all my shows are about
community and commiseration and what what better drink is there
than child like you just like it's a social drink.
You have it around people that you you love and and you talk
shit about stuff. I don't know if I can do
something here. OK, cool, sorry.
And he was like, I want it basically when my shows get out,
I want there to be free Chai just like pouring.
And I want this in Chicago, San Francisco.
DC, New York, NY City. City and we were like how do we
do that and so we figured it out and every at each of those shows
we basically gave about we tried to 2003 thousand people every
night and it was like an incredible feat and it was so
unique and I don't think anyone's ever done that and I
don't know if anyone will ever do that again yeah.
It's very cool. We set up a Chai cafe outside of
these venues and this was before we had a contract with him.
This was just like, he's like. Just vibes.
Yeah, it was like we both were feeling each other out, like,
let's see how we work. And that was like, that's an A
list celebrity willing to like, take a chance on, you know, two
young founders. And we got to see how each
other, how both parties worked, you know, and, and both parties
went above and beyond to deliver.
And after that, yeah, it was kind of it's kind of been a
crazy. Like when we go back and think
about it, like we announced it on Bloomberg with partnership on
Bloomberg. He went on Drew Barrymore with a
cup of Chai. We got to meet some of our
childhood heroes through some of these, like, you know, private
retreats and stuff that we've been on with him.
We drank child with Pharrell. I don't know if we've said that
before, but that's a real thing. That's wild.
Yeah. So like there's been, there's
been all these moments and we've got to.
Learn, but that wasn't on the mood board, but here.
We are right. Yeah.
Correct And we got to learn from him.
We got to learn from someone who's actually done this before,
taken this like dream and made it, you know, a career and also
made it like a he's changed culture forever in America.
And it's just a privilege to be able to do that.
So yeah, there's more common, you know, we have so much more
on the works with him and it's still a bit surreal sometimes,
but it helped us also kind of realign our thesis of we've
built something incredible in New York City within a certain
community. But it's way more accessible
than that. So as we look to become the
name, the household name for China America, you know, we, we
want to do that with a partner like him.
And so that's the whole plan. We we want to be on grocery
shelves. You want to.
And I thought you guys should have do like weddings, like
people should be able to have the Kolkata.
Yeah, we do. We do some, we do some wedding
favors. Yeah, I just got a text last
night from a friend who's like, I'm at this wedding and they
have KCC and I was like, I didn't know about that, but
that's awesome. So yeah, we're we're working on
that. I love that.
Weddings are intense. That's I don't want to do
weddings on weddings. Are too intense.
Caring Weddings. Caring Weddings is very, very
intense, but we we do them very selectively.
Selectively OK, my sister is getting married in June, so
we're in the throes of doing that now and it's it's funny, I
so as a million filter coffee is like our love language, right.
So my mom knows I will complain if the caterer has not optimized
the filter coffee situation. So she's like she made it for
you. She sent it in this flask.
So I like I was like, I can't drink it right now.
It's at night like I need to have it at the right time tell
you wow. So I sent her back notes and I
clearly that's crazy. That's like, not a normative.
Notes on filter coffee is like you're hired.
Honestly, like and I and I called her back.
I was like I need this, I need this.
The I went through the whole, the whole list and I it's just
certain things are so inherent to who we are.
Try filter coffee. And the fact that you guys have
been so well received and growing is really all of the
proof that you need that you nailed the product.
Yeah. And I think, you know, my, my
brand is still small, but I whether it's surgery or about my
skin care line or about Instagram, you know, how do you
do it or what do you? And they have all these
questions about everything except the product.
And I always like if you just have a really good product, you
will find your way into whatever it is you're looking for.
But everybody is so distracted these days, especially with how
media marketing works right now, that I find so many people
forget about the product and they're focusing on everything
else. And all of those other I think
antics will only work for a short period of time if your
source product or your hero product or whatever it is that
you stand on isn't actually excellent.
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. That's what I obsess about all
the time. And like the way we make Chai,
we make it across different locations, different staff
members, different feelings, different things going on.
And they're making a recipe from scratch every single day and
across like, no, it's like AI don't want to.
It's like a restaurant. It's like a very, very precise
restaurant and it's really hard to get right.
And so we're very, I'm very proud of my team and just like
our ability to like create that consistent product every day.
It's very, very difficult to do. Have you ever made something or
tried to add something to the menu and you're like, never mind
just. Kidding all the time.
Yeah, all. The time.
What's your favorite thing other than the masala?
Like the original? What's your favorite?
Speaking of coffee, I really like our coffee.
Yeah. So we partnered with Drift Away.
I don't know if you know Drift Away.
They bringing beans from all parts of the world, but then
they roast right in Brooklyn. Oh cool.
And so we teamed up with them. They made a special filter
coffee chicory blend for us from a single.
I was literally stopping by the store later today so now I know
what to get. Come by.
Yeah. And like we just recently, like
chicory dialed it, dialed that recipe in and it's like actually
went to India. We went to India in February.
And do you know this concept called Benedosa out there?
It's, it's South Indian, but it's obviously in Bombay.
It's like this fast casual dosa and they have filter coffee
there. And I was just like, this filter
coffee is so amazing. And I was like, how do I get
this? And so I've been working on
dialing that in. So I think the coffee is really,
really good at at KCC. OK, I love that.
I love that. Where, how are we doing On time
951 couple more minutes. OK, can I get like a little
controversial? Is that of course let's.
Kind I'm going to let you. We love controversy.
I mean, I serve, I live on controversy and it's my favorite
thing. It has been liberating for me.
So I, you know, I recently made two videos roasting Priya Patel.
Are you familiar? Oh God.
OK. Yeah, yeah.
Oh God, right, Yes. Unfortunately, who she.
Is and it's as someone who is so proud of her culture and it is
very much a part of who I am. I'm also very American.
Like I'm I'm both of these things.
People like her just make me like viscerally nauseous.
What is your response to people like that as two men who have
created and again, a working proof of concept that Chai is
global and that something so beautiful from our culture
actually has deserves a home across the United States.
What is your response to you know little cockroaches like
pray of vital? So honestly, this might be even
a hotter take, but like when my business side is like, go get
your money, you got the conservative right wing,
whatever. Like you need to posture for
that, like cool. And then the other side of me is
like, oh, you are really not accepting your identity and
that's like a real problem. So I think.
You think she's getting money? I think she is, yeah.
No, nobody would go on on whatever Piers Morgan or
whatever and and do that without like some platform or some kind
of financial motivation. People do insane things for
financial motivation. I think she's trying to build
like some kind of, I don't know what she, what does she?
Do that's the thing I I don't actually think she does
anything. And so, you know, I usually if
you're an influencer, you have brand deals are.
We talking about the British politist politician, No.
No, no. I.
Think it's creepy? He's not on Instagram anymore
so. I mean, God bless.
Him. I thought I was.
I thought. It was no, there's this like,
oh, I mixed. Race.
OK, so we talking about the same person she was on Piers Morgan?
Yeah, I think so. For for what reason I don't
know. She is she always there with the
White family, Respectfully so. Yeah, she doesn't post her dad,
her dad, she doesn't. Post bad but we talk about the
same person. You got it.
Not posted. I think the reason he called her
on is she had posted I think something like immigration with
that assimilation. Yeah, yeah, is.
Invasion so my bit because actually there's a word for that
it's called colonialism, bitch. Like that's what the white
people do is they they come in, they don't assimilate they kill
all the natives and then they call it their own.
That's invasion. So I so she's stupid and what
she said was not well received. And I think that's what Piers
Morgan was getting about getting AT.
And then he was asking her, you know, there's other
controversial things she said about lesser cultures.
And so she had said, oh, well, I think the Muslim culture is an
inferior culture. So she's talking about that, you
know, I. Don't believe it like I just.
No, of course. I don't believe that those are
actual beliefs. I think it's just like political
posturing for you. Don't think she.
Actually believes that, but I'm like, who's paying?
I don't know. I no brand is going to sign up
for that. No, I'll take, I'll take I know
what I'm saying it what it is, is like, it may not be direct
dollars, but it's creating influence.
And with that influence, you attract the crazies on whatever
side you're on. And and through that thing like
you'll, you'll find a little community of people who are
willing to validate you, listen to you find something you're
doing. So it may not be like a brand
deal, you know, but it's, it's in that in that world.
I just, I think like we live in such a politically absolutely
insane time that there's no like there's no sense of making sense
of any of this stuff. Like I think people are just
saying whatever to get views and it doesn't.
Like there's no actual, the only way we feed into it is if we are
outraged about it, which I totally understand you're
outraged. Like it's completely ridiculous,
but. No, but I see what you're
saying. By by giving, by platforming her
further, you're then feeding into what is likely her.
Reasoning, but 100% yeah. And so.
That's how. That's the age we live.
In I think like the counteract to that is just like I, I view
everyone like you should have her on the pod, like view
everyone with compassion and just like be open, feel open to
everyone. And like I, it's a, it's a skill
and it's a, it's a thing that we're constantly have to work
on. But I would be happy to have
conservatives on the podcast like that is that's totally
fine. I can disagree with you and hear
what you have to say and be like, OK, well, I disagree with
you, but interesting. That's where you're coming from.
But I just, perhaps it is because I am a child of
immigrant parents, right? That moral compass is strong,
even when I wish that it would not be.
I, there's like so much conviction.
I, I just don't think I could do something if I didn't feel like
I, I was doing the right thing, You know, whether it is for my
children, my culture, me. And so that I think is what what
kills me the most is even if she is just doing it for a persona
like how do you sleep at night? No, it is.
It is quite sad, especially like since that's a member of her
family and yeah, I wonder, I wonder how that works
internally. But again.
Yeah, I won't have the dad on time.
The brother on the. Yeah, the dad we.
All are listening. Just come on down.
I'm staying out of this phone. I think.
I think what we've, what we've learned in our time is like the
Internet is such a dangerous place because everybody is going
through something. It's just as human beings, it is
the human experience to go through things, the ups and
downs. The problem is now we have this
brick rectangular of sadness that we can record and then
project whatever that is onto other people instead of dealing
with it internally. And so I think to Ian's point,
like, yeah, it's not, it's not a, it's not a viral take, but
it's like compassion and, and more discussion and less
divisiveness. Is going to keep whatever fabric
of society we have left together.
I think if we continue to basically use things, these
things as division, it's not going to be much left so.
But my argument to that would be like, where do you draw the
line? She's so egregious on the other
end, it's. Just keyboard warriors, like
anyone can say anything online and it's like.
No, I agree with that. But I'm talking, I mean, she was
on Piers Morgan, right? There's still a verbal
discourse. There's at the end of the day,
we have politicians that represent us, right?
And they have to be capable of of having these conversations.
And what we saw was a complete dissolution of of discourse.
You know, you can't have reasonable debates when the
conversation is is at that point, right.
So I agree, you should be able to talk through things, but when
people are so egregious, I don't know, I'm kind of enjoying this
era of like, the Gavin Newsome. Just, like, just roast them.
Like, if you can't beat them, you know what I mean?
Like, you want to go low, we'll go lower.
Like, you want to be this absurd, OK, we'll fight fire
with fire, which is something I feel like the Democratic Party,
we really just switched. Gears, we did.
Yeah, we're, we're in it. But I feel like the Democratic
Party didn't really do that well.
And I, I got a little bit sick of like trying to play both
sides. I'm like yo, just like need to
dial down on what is right on Israel and Palestine.
Y'all just really need to like you.
You think you're going to lose all the voters, but I think you
know, we have people like Zaran Nandani showing us, right?
Like you don't need AIPAC money. You can actually just have an
opinion and merely having an opinion, even if people disagree
with you, they will respect you for it.
Because we haven't even seen that in a long time, right?
Right. I think Hudson has a podcast and
I think one of the early. People obsessed with it and.
Do you think? That now that we've met, I will
not leverage this for some opportunity to meet him with you
guys like I'm telling. You well, but like Elizabeth
Warren's on that podcast and like Hudson's like you guys are
getting out message like what's the message for for Biden and
Elizabeth Warren's like? He.
Cares. And it's just like, like, oh,
like, come on, Trump's like. And I'm kind of liking like the
aggro. Yeah, we have an opinion and
this is our opinion. And I am very opinionated on my
platform. And I love the freedom that I
have because I fund my life by being a surgeon in my real
estate investments. Like, if all of this burns down
tomorrow, great. I would be fucking thrilled if I
could delete Instagram and TikTok from my phone, right?
But I do it because I have these opportunities and I, I don't
want to totally shit talk it because it has provided me a lot
of great opportunities like meeting you gentlemen.
But in, in being on Instagram and seeing just like all of the
opinions and all of the thoughts and I get to be super
opinionated. I really have come to, there are
people who disagree with me, but they respect the delivery of the
message. And so they will follow.
And I think that part of the culture switch of like not
having to agree with every single thing somebody says.
Or you're just so frustrated with the ambiguity that if they
just have an opinion and they can tell you why, you're like,
you know what? Even though I don't agree with
you, I can. An informed opinion or just just
an? Opinion no.
Informed, yeah. Informed.
You have to be able to yeah, yeah, there has to be nuance to
it, but I think that's really helpful.
And I what I push for is I got really frustrated with the last
election when people were, you know, the obviously the Israel
Palestine thing was, was a big deal, as it should have been.
And I I'm also disappointed with the stance of the Democratic
Party in general took, although there were individuals who were
willing to dissent. I think is we have the primaries
and we get to have primaries. So if we really care about this
thing, now's the time after they choose the candidate and all of
that. Like we go to just like lesser
of two evils, guys. But now that we have this
opportunity, if we really care about certain issues, let us be
opinionated. Let us put it out there.
If there's ever a good in social media, like, put that out in the
world because hopefully now some people have learned their
lessons and they're listening, Yeah.
Yeah, I think content, social, all of this makes previous
outcomes possible, right? Like in terms of the discourse,
in terms of ability to educate people, in terms of being able
to bring people in the middle to either side, whether that's a
race to the bottom or it's done responsibly, we'll see.
These are always a really good model of how to use social media
to, to like actually organize and like, actually, you know, he
canvassed like he had one of the biggest.
He could do a whole another. Episode on the.
Marketing genius with YouTube behind that campaign.
It was insane, but I yes. We translated that to actual
win. An actual win and I also, I'm so
sick of people saying like, you know, they need the AIPAC money
they need and I'm like actually Talarico and Mandani did not
accept AIPAC money. So again, proof of concept that
we don't need it and perhaps, just perhaps having like
listening to what people feel and say and, and, and how they
what they verbalize. And if you can project that and
have an opinion, I think you can still win votes from people who
disagree with you if you're able to, you know, to do it in an.
Informed. I agree.
Yeah. I mean, it's about humanity, not
to make it like super general, but I think throughout all this,
like, you know, the the digital slash social content revolution,
especially how it's affected politics.
It also effects food. It also effects business, small
business like it, you know, we're always like we live in a
very polarized time. But ultimately it's about
humanity. And I think, you know, whether
it's, you know, whoever you're beefing with, you know, keep
keep beefing with her. Ultimately, at some point it's
it comes down to like, I do I want to show the person grace or
do I want to keep roasting them? I honestly don't have, you know,
like you could, you could do what you feel is best.
I'm really funny so. You got a roast.
I feel you. But entertainment, right?
But it's about humanity. And I think with food, with
Chai, you know, all this, like what we realized is like
technology really erodes some of that humanity, or at least it
gives opportunities to a road. And then you have to always find
ways to bring it back together. And so even with us and comedy,
in that moment when you're sitting with your family or your
friends and you're watching that show, it's this moment of
humanity. Because humanity is experiential
in real time, correct? And social media is not.
Thank you. And so you know, we in this age
of you know, you have AI, you have all like this this pending
erosion of. Institutions.
Institutions and white collar jobs and there's a lot of things
that are very uncertain right now.
And and I think we look at, you know, the macro of like, well,
people always going to want to come together, chat, drink, eat,
commune, and that humanity hopefully will present some type
of alternative to, you know, the race to the bottom.
So I don't know if that's, you know.
I love that. I love that.
You know. What I mean, that's what I do,
but no, we, we support you roasting anybody that's getting
out of line. I you know the idea.
My, my, my views do not reflect out of my company.
And it's just my personal views, you know, But yeah, I think, I
think we have to find a way back to humanity.
And if we could do it with a cup of Chai, if we could do it
through a piece of content, if we do it through forums or, you
know, whatever, like let's do it.
But I love that it's got to be we got to get back to being
human. Humanity and Chai, that's what
we'll name the episode. Cheers to that.