1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,040 I'm proving something to the world about Indian beauty and I 2 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,320 have like a chip on my shoulder about. 3 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:09,040 It I say that as an influencer. I don't think influencers help. 4 00:00:09,040 --> 00:00:12,480 Avara, our target consumer doesn't really care if Gen. 5 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:14,720 Z so and so is using it. They want to know the science, 6 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:16,760 they want to know if it works. They want the before and afters. 7 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:19,600 They want the story. Don't ask a million people if he 8 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:21,960 should do it or not. If you want to do it, just do 9 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:24,000 it. Do not wait for someone's 10 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:25,720 approval. There's just going to be times 11 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:28,000 where like you thought something was going to go through or 12 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:31,000 you're short cash flow and you're just not going to want to 13 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:33,560 go through them if you don't have a reason that is deeper 14 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:35,240 than a superficial reason if you. 15 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:37,960 Really want a company, a brand longevity. 16 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:40,520 I find that you have to be. Authentic. 17 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:43,200 I think you'd be surprised at how many people start businesses 18 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,000 for the wrong reason. Do I do it because I want to say 19 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:48,240 that I'm a founder at a cocktail party? 20 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:50,880 If you truly were someone who was meant to do this, you would 21 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:55,280 have done it by now. Welcome back to this week's 22 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:56,920 episode of Inside Thoughts Out Loud. 23 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:01,000 I'm sitting down with Michelle Ranavath, founder and CEO of her 24 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:04,360 skin care line, same name Ranavath, and I frankly just 25 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:06,160 can't call it a small business anymore. 26 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:09,840 It exploded onto the scene, but it was really never a viral 27 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:11,680 moment. It really has always been a 28 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:14,840 generational movement. Ranavath has always been about 29 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:17,200 Ayurvedic, but science backed skin care. 30 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:21,280 She took a concept that is steeped in history and culture 31 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:24,640 and made it mainstream in a way that a company couldn't really 32 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:27,520 get right before her. What's really interesting about 33 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:31,280 Michelle is that she's quite reserved, shy, and humble. 34 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:34,280 So I'm really excited to sit down and pick her brain about 35 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:36,120 what it means to invest in yourself. 36 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:39,800 How do you know you have an idea that's worth that big budget 37 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:42,200 investment? What about trends and female 38 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:44,920 entrepreneurship and leadership? Where does she fall on these 39 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:46,840 topics? I can't wait to ask her these 40 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:49,080 questions, so thank you for joining us on Inside Thoughts 41 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:51,000 Out Loud. How do you know you have that 42 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:53,360 million or billion dollar idea? Like how do you know when to 43 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:56,080 make that big budget yourself? And I had said in the intro that 44 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:59,080 you're like, As for as a founder, you're humble, you're 45 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:02,280 shy, you're you're more reserved than some other founders are. 46 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:05,360 So that I'm curious where you fall on certain topics like 47 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:07,880 what's trending in female entrepreneurship leadership. 48 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:09,520 I'm a green controversy. I was. 49 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:14,160 Going to, that was actually what I was thinking about over the 50 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:18,560 last couple days, because you are very outspoken and you have 51 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:20,680 strong opinions and you're able to share them. 52 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:25,440 And I'm, I have those things, but I, I really don't share. 53 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:28,880 Not to share. Them I'm just much more of a 54 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:32,280 private person and so I'm excited to talk about some of 55 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:36,320 the things that I've just really never had the opportunity to do 56 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:37,920 and I. Wanted to ask you but. 57 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:42,080 I'm also like envious of the way that you can just do those 58 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:44,160 things. Whereas for me, it's just like 59 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:49,760 the reason I want this brand and Indian beauty and artisanship 60 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:52,400 and the science, I want that to be the star. 61 00:02:52,640 --> 00:02:55,760 I don't want Michelle Ronavot, this person that has these 62 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:59,600 opinions, to be what this company is about because 63 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:03,000 ultimately I think it takes away from like the true purpose of 64 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:05,000 what I'm doing. And I really want to shine kind 65 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:09,080 of light, not on me, but on this art that I think just really 66 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:11,560 deserves the microphone. Absolutely. 67 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:12,920 But here I am with. Here we are. 68 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:15,320 OK Welcome Michelle to insight thoughts out loud. 69 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:17,320 We just, we jumped right in. I know. 70 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:20,800 I'm so excited to chat with you and spend time with you because 71 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:26,160 I've been a fan for so long. And us as well of you even I 72 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:27,400 think, you know, beginning of time. 73 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:30,720 Actually, the first time I ever heard of you was from a customer 74 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:33,400 that said my doctor has recommended your products. 75 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:37,320 I'm, I love my doctor so much. And do you know who she is? 76 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:41,640 And she recommends your products to all of her patients. 77 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:43,640 Yeah. So thank you so much. 78 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:46,640 For doing that because I mean your brand. 79 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:49,520 So I say Ranavat on Instagram because I feel like it's easier 80 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:50,960 for people to say. But how do you pronounce your 81 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:51,280 last? Name. 82 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:53,280 I think it's Ranavat. Ranavat. 83 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:56,800 But even like so it's my in laws name actually. 84 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:00,760 So my my original name is Shaw, which also means King and it is 85 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:04,360 pretty royal too. It's just not as unique and even 86 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:08,800 the family says it as Ranavat. OK, so I feel like. 87 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:10,080 Either either or. Yeah. 88 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:15,640 OK, so your, you know, your brand very much had a solid 89 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:18,440 presence when my Instagram following was just taking off. 90 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:20,959 So I was very much a small fish in a big sea. 91 00:04:20,959 --> 00:04:23,040 But I was just genuinely such a fan. 92 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:27,400 And when I used it, I was taken by how effective yet gentle it 93 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:30,360 was, which was important for me as a doctor because my patients 94 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:33,200 are coming to me because they have a cancer or cancer adjacent 95 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:37,040 diagnosis and they feel very lost in the weeds because 96 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:39,800 they're doctors are like, stop the vitamin C, stop the retinal, 97 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:41,320 stop the active, stop all the things. 98 00:04:41,840 --> 00:04:44,240 And I would always say, OK, but Bacucci, all is fine. 99 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:46,360 Like you're going to be fine with Bacucci or you know, the 100 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:49,240 saffron serum, which I think very much is the hero product 101 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:52,840 gives you. Yes, of course there's a long 102 00:04:52,840 --> 00:04:55,400 term skin care benefits, but we all like a good immediate 103 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:57,960 satisfaction and you put it on in your skin glows, right? 104 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:00,800 So we love that. And so I bought it for myself 105 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:02,840 and then I started recommending it to my patients. 106 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:06,600 And you know, I, I have had the opportunity to work with a lot 107 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:09,320 of brands, but I'm very loyal to the ones that were kind to me 108 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:10,840 when I was a small creator. I. 109 00:05:10,840 --> 00:05:14,280 Didn't see that by the way. I know you shout us out a lot 110 00:05:14,280 --> 00:05:17,120 and I know that you have so many opportunities. 111 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:19,160 So I was even I was telling Ammi that I was like, you know, they 112 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:21,080 feel like always comes to our events. 113 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:25,160 She's super supportive and I know you don't like need to be 114 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:28,120 right now, but you are truly that like authentic person and I 115 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:29,680 I really feel the love so I appreciate. 116 00:05:29,840 --> 00:05:32,480 It it's my pleasure and it's one of the cool things I get to do 117 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:35,920 with the platform is I know the brands that were supportive when 118 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:38,080 I was young or have always just been really authentic. 119 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:41,240 So it's a fun thing to support in return. 120 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:43,520 And then we have these cool full circle moments like now where I 121 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:45,920 get to sit down with you. I know and our kids are like 122 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:47,880 hanging out together exactly. Really cool. 123 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:50,840 The best. So I had so many questions I 124 00:05:50,840 --> 00:05:53,800 wanted to ask you about the brand and I had been wanting to 125 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:55,480 have you on the podcast for a while, and I'm going to ask all 126 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:57,200 those questions. But I think we're in this unique 127 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:01,160 sort of pop culture moment as well where female entrepreneurs 128 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,360 really are being more outspoken about their leadership styles. 129 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:08,280 So I actually want to start with that Emma Greed, who I have a 130 00:06:08,280 --> 00:06:11,560 lot of respect for but also respectfully disagree with at 131 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:15,400 times, has come out talking about her criticisms of work 132 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:18,200 from home lifestyle and saying, you know, adjacency is 133 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:20,600 important, being in the office is important. 134 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:25,480 And I found it to be sort of peddling the corporate ladder 135 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:29,040 lifestyle. And I think the reason for me, I 136 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:33,760 especially took took issue with it is I am successful because I 137 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:36,240 left that and I started my own practice. 138 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:38,720 I started my own skin care line. I started, you know, all the 139 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:41,280 podcast, all the things. And actually it was the time I 140 00:06:41,280 --> 00:06:45,440 was spending not at work with my paid academic job where I was 141 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:49,320 quietly building those things. And I find that a lot of women 142 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:54,400 actually prefer to work from home or go part time because the 143 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:56,960 end all be all is not climbing the ladder within their own 144 00:06:56,960 --> 00:07:00,040 corporation. It is creating a new corporation 145 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:03,400 so that that being sort of my disclosure and my bias. 146 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:06,480 What are your thoughts on that? I think there's no single 147 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:10,200 archetype and I struggle when there's so much celebration 148 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:13,080 around one person. I think that's great, but we 149 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:16,360 should never put anyone on a pedestal and assume that they 150 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:18,960 quote UN quote know everything and we have to listen to 151 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:21,440 everything they say. That's their version of the 152 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:23,680 world. I mean, there's all sorts of, 153 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:26,520 every one of us has a we're seeing the world through our own 154 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:30,520 lives, our own experiences, our past, what we want to see. 155 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:33,920 And I think that we're just taking what she's saying as 156 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:36,040 fact. And I just don't think that 157 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:38,440 makes any sense. I think that's in her experience 158 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:41,640 and her recommendation, and that's fine, but I don't think 159 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:44,600 people should view that as something's gospel. 160 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:45,440 Yeah. Yeah. 161 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:49,040 And and I agree with that. I think where people felt misled 162 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:52,160 as if she's trying to pass this message to the masses. 163 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:54,440 Is this message applicable to the masses? 164 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:56,840 And I think part of that is the consumer responsibility. 165 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:00,200 If we're going to watch, then we should also understand that, 166 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:03,560 like you said, who is going to be able to give universal advice 167 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:04,560 like that? We all have our own. 168 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:06,000 Journey. And I think that when you think 169 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,360 about like the corporate ladder, I mean, I can only speak from my 170 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:12,720 own experience, experience at my company and having the ability 171 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:16,640 to bring people on and seeing who's been able to like really 172 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:18,600 be successful. And I have to say, every person 173 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:21,760 at our company is successful. They have different ways of 174 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:23,360 doing that. And that's not something that I 175 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:27,120 woke up understanding. So I too initially might have 176 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:31,200 had, oh, well, everyone that's successful has to be this type. 177 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:34,159 They have to be a type A person. I'm not a type AI mean I came in 178 00:08:34,159 --> 00:08:35,840 a little bit late. I'm not. 179 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:39,679 I have. I struggle with staying on time 180 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:42,200 with. I don't have A to do list like 181 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:44,039 organization. So there are things that I've 182 00:08:44,039 --> 00:08:44,840 added in my. Life. 183 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:47,200 I'm like shocked to hear this. Oh my gosh, no, I would think 184 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:49,960 that I'm super. Typing, I know you are and that 185 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:52,040 makes sense. I feel like I'm like a weird 186 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:55,200 mismatch, like I'm like some lie or something because. 187 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:58,320 No, you're the perfect example and paradigm for how success can 188 00:08:58,320 --> 00:08:59,520 look different for different people. 189 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:02,240 And I wish I saw more of that. Like I even texted you to be 190 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:04,880 like, oh, can I sleep in? Like I love sleeping in on the 191 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:10,280 weekends and yeah, I'm not. I work really hard and some of 192 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:13,120 my favorite days to work are on the weekends or Friday or 193 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:14,720 something. But that's me and my own 194 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:18,840 personality probably because, yeah, I'm not waking up at 5:00 195 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:22,000 AM and getting to my emails and doing like 50 things before the 196 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:22,920 day starts. And that's. 197 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:24,760 How you can show that success looks different. 198 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:27,360 And that was another thing that just bugged me about that 199 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:31,200 narrative because I have women from my in my office that work 200 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:34,200 part time or work from home and they're extremely good at their 201 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:36,560 job. And I know one person in 202 00:09:36,560 --> 00:09:38,840 particular in my office, she's getting her nursing degree. 203 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:41,760 And it was important to me for her to be able to get her 204 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:45,080 nursing degree because that's how she's going to elevate her 205 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:48,040 life to me. If you're really giving women 206 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:52,000 advice on how to to make more money, to be independent, they 207 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,840 got to do it on their terms. Working for me may not be the 208 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:58,520 end all be all of their success. And I know that I walk into 209 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:00,000 these situations understanding that. 210 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:03,600 So I give them permission to work from home so that they can 211 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:05,960 get the nursing. But it may be like 1 second 212 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:10,000 example is like, people see how you've taken, you know, a more 213 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:12,920 traditional career path and then you've been able to do things 214 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:16,320 like podcasts and be an influencer and how that hasn't 215 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:20,040 hurt, but in fact, like has helped your entire personal 216 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:22,640 brand. And I think that, you know, for 217 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:26,240 me, my parents immigrated much like yours, I'm sure, right? 218 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:30,360 My parents came in the 70s and I didn't have like a fancy private 219 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:32,800 school education like maybe our kids do now. 220 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:38,720 And that comes, that could be another topic, but I spend 221 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:41,600 instead of fancy summer camps, I spent my summer at my dad's 222 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:45,320 office and I was in a warehouse. I was in a warehouse all summer 223 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:47,000 long and I actually really loved it. 224 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:48,760 I love seeing all the products, organizing. 225 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:51,240 He would give me different projects and I just keep myself 226 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:53,800 busy like playing store essentially. 227 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:58,800 And that is what ultimately became the foundation and what 228 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:01,760 gave me some confidence to start something on my own. 229 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:05,920 But just because someone isn't like going on your path, 230 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:09,240 obviously, like they're still seeing what you're doing. 231 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:12,280 And I think that's making an impact, you know, but again, I, 232 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:14,520 I don't think it, they need to quote UN quote, be in the 233 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:18,240 office, but I still think it, it makes an impact and it matters. 234 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:20,520 I think there's different types of learning, so where you are in 235 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:24,280 your career effects what sort of learning you would most benefit 236 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:25,880 from. So I, I definitely think certain 237 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:29,200 positions, sure, but sort of this global villainization of 238 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:32,840 it, it hurts me because I just, I personally know so, so many 239 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:35,600 women who, who will shift. Maybe they were in the office, 240 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:39,000 maybe their kids are growing up. They they need to be there for 241 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:42,360 soccer practice or pick up and drop off or nursing degrees to 242 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:45,600 be able to not villainize. That to me was really important, 243 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:48,120 which is why it was personally so offended by. 244 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:52,040 It yeah, it's so interesting because like, I, this is maybe 245 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:55,480 why I don't comment on these things, like some things that 246 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:59,440 are so weird to me that are like very specific in an instance. 247 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:01,640 Like in her scenario, she's talking about something 248 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:04,480 extremely specific. She's talking about someone that 249 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:07,520 wants to climb the corporate ladder that like doesn't have 250 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:10,360 aspirations to be beyond that. And really, you know, and that's 251 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:12,760 her version of that. Again, there's no one size. 252 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:14,720 No. There's a lot of women in 253 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:16,880 C-Suite positions that are doing great. 254 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:21,760 But to me, the advice then should be if you want to stay 255 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:23,840 within the corporate ladder, and this is I'm going to use this as 256 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:27,920 a transition because I find that for so many women, the real 257 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:32,680 independence, both financial and with time, comes from leaving 258 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:37,000 that traditional massive corporation paradigm and chasing 259 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:40,920 your own ideas. I think so I, I agree with you, 260 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:43,760 but I also would say like entrepreneurship is not for 261 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:47,640 every person. And I believe on betting your on 262 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:50,440 yourself in so many ways, but with the right leader. 263 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:54,080 And I hope that I do this for the team that I work with is 264 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:57,280 that they feel like they're their own entrepreneurs inside 265 00:12:57,280 --> 00:12:59,960 of your brand. And I really like to create that 266 00:12:59,960 --> 00:13:02,000 shape. But what I was saying before a 267 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:04,800 little bit is that sometimes when I hear these like sound 268 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,520 bites, like I don't even get irked by it or I don't even 269 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:09,560 think about it because I'm just like, OK, you know, that's like 270 00:13:09,560 --> 00:13:12,960 one person's opinion. And I just, I can't get so 271 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:15,920 emotionally involved in everything that I see online 272 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:19,800 because then it just takes away from my intense focus that I 273 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:23,360 have on the things that I enjoy. And that has been one of the 274 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,960 things that, and one of the reasons that I am not as 275 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:30,800 outspoken as maybe some other entrepreneurs or female founders 276 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:33,600 is because I'm very intensely focused. 277 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:36,720 But I think that's really worthwhile to say because I 278 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:39,280 recently launched my own skin care line and I got a lot of 279 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:42,640 advice on tone it down. You don't need to be polarizing, 280 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:44,440 you don't need to be so strongly opinionated. 281 00:13:44,680 --> 00:13:46,720 You could isolate your customer base. 282 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:50,280 And my response was, I know what I'm trying to build and I have 283 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:53,160 to be authentic to who that is, otherwise I will do a bad job 284 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:58,680 with my brand. But if my focus was what Ranavat 285 00:13:58,680 --> 00:14:03,520 is, which is bringing sort of a global luxury platform to 286 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:07,640 Ayurveda and to sort of thousands of years of skin care 287 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:10,200 in the making with modern elements, right. 288 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:13,240 If that's the focus, that's really the rest is irrelevant, 289 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:17,000 the rest is noise. So I think it's really important 290 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:21,040 to them say, or to know as a founder what did it, where your 291 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:24,240 authenticity lies because then you shouldn't stray from it. 292 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:26,760 You know, it makes complete sense to me why you wouldn't get 293 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:30,720 embroiled in these sort of sound bites and online discourses 294 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:32,960 because they are going to be constantly evolving, but they 295 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:35,280 don't really affect the message that your brand. 296 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:38,560 Well, first of all, I'm not as talented as you with words. 297 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:42,480 And just the way that you're able to distill complex points 298 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:46,080 on camera is actually really, really hard to do. 299 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:49,680 So I don't, I don't have your talent, but I also would agree 300 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:53,520 that I think for me, I just want to keep the focus on what I 301 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:56,080 think the focus should be. There's no wrong way to build a 302 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:57,960 business. So what you're doing is great. 303 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:00,920 What I'm doing is fine like any, there's literally no wrong way. 304 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:04,280 And I hope that there continue to be more and more ways that we 305 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:07,360 empower people to create their businesses on their own terms. 306 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:09,000 And I, I'm seeing more of it now. 307 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:11,040 I think the advice that I was given maybe would have made 308 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:16,040 sense five years ago, but what I see now is that a lot of brands 309 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:18,760 and founders, I'm really able to clearly state who the founder 310 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:20,680 is, what they stand for, what the brand is. 311 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:23,640 And they're not all the same, which is great. 312 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:27,840 And I, I think we're in an era now where it's OK to speak up 313 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:30,360 and, and double down on whatever your message may be. 314 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:33,920 And I think the more authentic you stay to that your, I think 315 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:36,560 your brand's going to do better. I think being wishy washy 316 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:40,240 doesn't help, but if that's not where your focus of your brand 317 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:42,760 is and you don't even need to comment on it, just again, laser 318 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:44,320 focus. Yeah, I mean, I think you'd be 319 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:47,000 surprised at how many people start businesses for the wrong 320 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:48,560 reasons. And I think all of these things 321 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:53,480 are ways that you can just check your why essentially like did I 322 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:55,880 do? I do it because I want to say 323 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:58,160 that I'm a founder at a cocktail party. 324 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:01,560 Is this something that is like I need to prove something to my 325 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:02,920 own identity, which is totally fine. 326 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:05,840 I feel like I have things that I want to prove to myself every 327 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:08,920 single day. But yeah, it just depends on the 328 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:10,960 why I think. I think it has to be about the 329 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:12,520 why. I think the minute it becomes 330 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:14,760 about making money or. Outward success. 331 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:19,440 Outward success it is. The problem is we're too forward 332 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:21,120 facing. Whether we like it or not, we 333 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:22,960 are everywhere. I want to be invited to this 334 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:25,880 party. I want to be friends with these 335 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:27,640 celebrities. I mean, that's when it's. 336 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:30,200 Want to make X number of dollars the minute it becomes about 337 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,320 that, I think the problem is we we actually can't get away with 338 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:34,320 it. I find I. 339 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:36,120 No. Maybe in the short term I have 340 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:39,040 seen it happen, but. You'll have a viral moment and 341 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:41,240 you'll fizzle out. If you really want a company, a 342 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:45,800 brand, longevity, I find that you have to be authentic because 343 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:47,360 people could well, they can just tell. 344 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:51,280 Well, it also just gets, you know, yes, I think people and, 345 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:55,040 and what they think, I think ultimately you just don't have 346 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:57,840 anything to, you don't have the strength to go on. 347 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:01,200 Like there's just going to be times where like you're amazing 348 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:04,839 people, you know, someone quits last minute and you're like, Oh 349 00:17:04,839 --> 00:17:07,359 my gosh, or you thought something was going to go 350 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:09,520 through or you're short cash flow. 351 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:13,079 And those are really hard, challenging things to go 352 00:17:13,079 --> 00:17:15,240 through, and you're just not going to want to go through them 353 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:18,599 if you don't have a reason that is deeper than a superficial 354 00:17:18,599 --> 00:17:19,760 reason. Yeah, yeah. 355 00:17:19,839 --> 00:17:21,880 No, absolutely. Give up and that's OK, by the 356 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:25,599 way, like I think we need to very much normalize giving up 357 00:17:25,599 --> 00:17:27,800 quote like failure. I don't even like using that 358 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:30,640 word because I feel like it just sounds because we've made it 359 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,120 sound word. Failure actually doesn't exist 360 00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:36,200 in the lexicon of people like you and I any entrepreneur that 361 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:39,640 I know, I just don't even use the word failure because I even 362 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:41,840 say like, if Ivara, what would failure be? 363 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:45,200 I don't know, Maybe we close, maybe we I lose money in the to 364 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:47,880 me, it's I went into this with intelligence. 365 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:50,240 I know how much money I put in. I know what I could afford to 366 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:52,480 lose and whatever I learned from it. 367 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:55,160 If I'm truly an entrepreneur, I'm going to take it and build 368 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:58,040 another company. And so I just don't I don't even 369 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:00,920 understand when people look at a company go, oh, they closed or 370 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:02,520 oh, they sold for less than whatever. 371 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:06,160 To me, that is not failure. Those are all very integral, 372 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:08,360 necessary stepping stones for any any entrepreneur. 373 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:12,720 I think if you started it for superficial reasons, it's very 374 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:16,360 hard to accept when it doesn't happen for that reason because 375 00:18:16,360 --> 00:18:18,800 you never had this like deeper connection. 376 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:21,600 Yeah, no, absolutely. I want to go back to something 377 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:24,200 you said about we were talking about being type A and type B 378 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,920 and and you had said not everyone is meant to be an 379 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:28,640 entrepreneur. And I totally agree. 380 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:31,240 And I use my husband and I as an example all the time because 381 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:35,320 he's incredibly detail oriented, incredibly helpful, does so much 382 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:38,560 for my companies. That man does is has zero 383 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:40,480 interest. It would never, I don't know 384 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:42,440 that it's his thing to to run his own company. 385 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:47,280 So I want you to kind of help set the landscape for how do you 386 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:49,960 know, you say you've had this gnawing idea or this this thing 387 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,000 that you want to do? How do you know that you are 388 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:54,080 someone who is meant to be an entrepreneur? 389 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:57,880 Well, I think anyone can be if you want to be, right? 390 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:01,640 That's like #1 to know. And if you're already thinking 391 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:05,480 about, oh, I'm curious and I want to do this thing, well, I 392 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:07,160 think you should be an entrepreneur. 393 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:11,880 There's no, there's literally nothing that no personality 394 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:14,160 trait, there's nothing that I can come up with that would say 395 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:16,520 like that's a bad idea. So I think it's like the basic 396 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:17,840 thing is do you want to be or not? 397 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,240 And that does separate and. To. 398 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:23,480 Me, it's so simple. It's like just you want to do it 399 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:25,240 or not. And if you want to do it, it 400 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:29,560 doesn't matter if you're like me and are a type B to to some 401 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:34,040 degree, or you're like you and a type A, like there's no one type 402 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:35,440 of person that's going to succeed. 403 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:38,400 But it is. Then to me, it's really the why 404 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:40,600 are you doing it? Anyone can be. 405 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,280 Should you be? Yeah, that's really the question 406 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:46,400 to me is the should you? Yeah, anyone can be, but. 407 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:50,280 I I find when people ask me for advice and I get because I'm so 408 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:52,680 new to the skin care game, usually people are reaching out 409 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:55,440 to me to ask for sort of business advice or 410 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:57,560 entrepreneurial advice. It's healthcare related, you 411 00:19:57,560 --> 00:19:58,560 know. Should I go into private 412 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:01,480 practice? Should I, should I start my own 413 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:03,160 practice? What does it go out of network 414 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:05,360 look like? Did you leave your job and it's 415 00:20:05,360 --> 00:20:07,920 similar if anyone? If you want to do it, you can do 416 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:09,600 it. But I'm pretty concrete about 417 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:11,600 like, I'm not going to lie to you about what it takes because 418 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:15,320 this is hard. And I can already tell you what 419 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:17,600 I think are necessary traits that you have to have to succeed 420 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:21,640 #1 you cannot be someone that like gets bogged down in the 421 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,240 weeds, especially if something go doesn't go your way. 422 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:26,160 You will fail if you're that you have to. 423 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:29,240 If you're not naturally that you got to train your brain. 424 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:33,560 There are things that I I'm not naturally like and I have to 425 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:35,800 train my brain to become those things. 426 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:37,560 It has to be water off a duck's bag. 427 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:41,040 You just because there will be days where you think that you're 428 00:20:41,120 --> 00:20:44,320 everything is falling apart and they're they're high highs and 429 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:46,520 low lows. But when it's low, you cannot 430 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:50,960 get caught in the weeds because you are like you are the glue of 431 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:52,440 the company. And if you're if it's 432 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:54,560 healthcare, you, the practice is yours. 433 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:58,840 So if you're really lost in the weeds because something 434 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:02,680 happened, that's not going to work because unlike when you 435 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,400 work for a big institution where they'll just keep going on and 436 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:07,680 the, you know, things will continue, things won't continue 437 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:11,200 if you're not moving on, thinking of the solution, moving 438 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:13,520 on to the next thing. So that to me is a necessary 439 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:15,520 character trait. And I find that it works well in 440 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:17,640 entrepreneurship and business as well. 441 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,680 Like for sure, there are a number of things that can go 442 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:22,720 wrong at any. I mean, whether it's supply 443 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,960 chain, distribution, formula, I mean you think you thought of it 444 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:27,960 all. And I'll tell you a nightmare 445 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:29,400 story that I am dealing with right now. 446 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:32,480 But it's just it. You have to be someone who's 447 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:35,120 like, OK, what's the solution? What's Plan B, what's Plan B, 448 00:21:35,120 --> 00:21:36,640 what's the loss? What are we doing? 449 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,400 And then move on. And I think it's so interesting 450 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:42,160 though, because, well, one, I would say if someone is 451 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,120 listening and they want to start a company, don't ask a million 452 00:21:45,120 --> 00:21:46,360 people if you should do it or not. 453 00:21:46,360 --> 00:21:48,000 Like that's like your first issue. 454 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,600 It's just if you want to do it, just do it. 455 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:54,640 Do not wait for someone's approval because why? 456 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,680 Why are you going to take this amazing dream that you have? 457 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:01,720 And then if some random person, maybe you trust them, maybe 458 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:03,840 they're your mom. It doesn't really matter to me. 459 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:07,320 They're putting their own ideas and giving you their opinion, 460 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:10,240 which is different than a fact. Yeah, so they're giving their 461 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,160 own opinion. Why are you taking that as like 462 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:13,480 advice? I just it doesn't make. 463 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:15,160 Sense, but that's also personality type, right? 464 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,680 I have these people who like every year they'll predictably 465 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:19,640 call me and I'm like, man, it's been for five years. 466 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:21,280 You haven't started. This conversation. 467 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,720 If you truly were someone who was meant to do this, you would 468 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:26,040 have done it by now. Because it will. 469 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:27,640 You won't. You're not able to sleep, you're 470 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:30,320 not able to. Like you become so consumed by 471 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:34,200 this passionate thing you want to do that you just have to cut 472 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:35,720 the cord and do it. And if you think that you can 473 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,400 prepare for it 100% or study for it, you're wrong. 474 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,000 That's not how it works. One of the things that I've 475 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:46,040 realized about entrepreneurship is it's like a PhD and learning 476 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:49,520 more about yourself and your own self, like you're limiting 477 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:51,920 beliefs and all of the things that we've gone through. 478 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,200 And that's why I really like, it's very therapeutic for me 479 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:59,520 because when I first started, so I, I got made fun of like my 480 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:04,360 entire, I don't know, childhood, I guess, and grew up in between 481 00:23:04,360 --> 00:23:07,400 Wisconsin and Chicago suburb and people didn't understand 482 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,240 vegetarian and I had all, I mean, I still have a lot of 483 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:13,280 hair. There are all sorts of reasons 484 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:17,760 that people made fun of me. And so I do feel like I'm 485 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,920 proving something to the world about Indian beauty and I have 486 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,120 like a chip on my shoulder about it. 487 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:28,360 And so that's that had me going back to those that time in my 488 00:23:28,360 --> 00:23:30,640 life. I think I also for a long period 489 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:33,640 of time, I surround myself with a lot of very, very high 490 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:37,320 achievers because I feel like I'm best in that environment. 491 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:41,160 However, I do not have those same characteristics as they do. 492 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:45,600 And I really struggle to think if I was better or I mean, if I 493 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:50,400 was less than because of it. And this would, this really kind 494 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:54,160 of forced me to be confident in my own skin and say, Hey, 495 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,360 there's no, there's, it's OK if these aren't your, your traits 496 00:23:57,360 --> 00:24:00,920 that you're born with. And then now I'm like, because 497 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:04,320 now we're at a different phase. So like before it was like, OK, 498 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:08,400 you can use brute force and just figure things out and work as 499 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,600 hard as you can, which I was very good at, but I can't do 500 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:13,520 that to get myself out of problems anymore. 501 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:15,760 Like I have to now leverage A-Team. 502 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,920 And now when you have a team, it's like not only the way that 503 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:22,000 I view myself, it's like everyone else has their own ways 504 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:23,760 of doing things. Like we're kind of going back to 505 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:25,920 like the work from home conversation. 506 00:24:26,360 --> 00:24:29,520 Everyone has their own operating system that they come to work 507 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,120 with. And I have to figure out along 508 00:24:32,120 --> 00:24:34,400 with people that and some people I don't even directly manage. 509 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:39,880 How can we empower them when they're not acting in a way that 510 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,440 to me to find success, like you listed a lot of things like if 511 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:45,040 you don't have these things, you shouldn't start a business. 512 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,360 That's what was helpful to you. There's some people that have 513 00:24:48,360 --> 00:24:52,000 got to this place and they've done in a completely different 514 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:53,520 way. And I have to find a way to like 515 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:55,720 relate to that. I have to find a way to coach 516 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:58,000 them. I have to find a way to be open 517 00:24:58,000 --> 00:24:59,720 to like their new way of doing things. 518 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,160 But then how open should I? Because this is our organization 519 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:04,280 and we need to stand for something. 520 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:08,000 So I think, I think the challenge is you have to be so 521 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:09,880 malleable. Like a lot of the things that 522 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,040 get you to one place, all of a sudden you have to like forget 523 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:14,640 them all. And then you have to learn all 524 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,920 these new skills. And it's so humbling every 525 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:21,840 single time to start from the beginning to say, oh, I guess I 526 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,960 can't just like outwork my way out of problems or now it's 527 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,480 about relationships or the next phase of this brand, which I 528 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:31,920 firmly believe isn't going to be about me. 529 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,800 It's about the team and the people and I'm, you know, hoping 530 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:38,520 to bring on, you know, a visionary and someone to, to 531 00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,520 work alongside with. So, and that's very new for me 532 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:46,360 because I am as typy as I am. I am very what's the word 533 00:25:46,360 --> 00:25:49,080 protective or I don't know. I just like. 534 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,000 No, I mean, I think I would say maternal almost because I think 535 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:53,960 for us these companies are our children. 536 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,480 And so just like you said, like you want your kids, they're 537 00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:59,560 going to run out and make a few mistakes and they're you have to 538 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:01,920 know who they are. And you can't scold one child 539 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:05,280 the way you scold another child. And so you and the family has to 540 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:07,800 make sense and the family family has to succeed. 541 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:10,320 And so it, it is interesting. And it's funny you say that 542 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:14,440 because as a doctor, most of my success really depends on me. 543 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:16,360 I mean, I have to do good surgery. 544 00:26:16,360 --> 00:26:19,080 I have to be. And so I was very successful 545 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:22,760 because I had the prototype of characteristics that allow me to 546 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:26,040 be a good doctor. I'm very thorough, I'm detail 547 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,760 oriented, I'm quick on my feet. I think things through, I'm 548 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,320 prepared. But then the practice grew and 549 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,400 now we have employees and many employees and I'm still the 550 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,560 singular Dr. But I have, I have a practice in Texas. 551 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,280 I have a practice in California. I have. 552 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:41,880 Multiple locations. So do you fly to do surgeries? 553 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,000 I. Do I do and so that's a 554 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,920 different team there and it's a different personality even like 555 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:50,520 location matters. And so that is growing and it's 556 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,160 so funny that something that obviously I still have to 557 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,040 perform, but the interface that the patient has with the clinic, 558 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,160 who's answering the phones, what's the response time on 559 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,000 emails, how are we handling insurance questions, all of 560 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,320 that. I have to tap in to each 561 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:07,960 person's good and bad and then I have to deeply confront my 562 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:13,360 limitations because I can be very short, I can be very, I 563 00:27:13,360 --> 00:27:16,600 just say it, I'm blunt, I move on and I realize that that's not 564 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:18,480 always received in the way that I intended it. 565 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,200 I'm a very, I'm just going to tell you the problem, we're 566 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:21,240 going to fix it. We're going to move on. 567 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,040 I don't hold grudges, but that person may feel deeply offended 568 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,920 by my delivery. And am I benefiting the team if 569 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,480 I can't fix my delivery if I know that this really important 570 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,640 person in my practice perceives what I say in this way? 571 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,120 I mean, it's rough. That's, I have that exact exact 572 00:27:36,120 --> 00:27:40,560 problem because I, I personally, I think it's also like you use 573 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:44,200 the word perceived. And I think making a mistake, 574 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:47,560 someone may feel guilty or that's perceived as bad. 575 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:50,960 I actually don't, I don't think mistakes are that big of a deal. 576 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,400 Like someone can come to me and be like, oh, we lost like 577 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,920 $30,000 because I made this mistake and I will be like, OK, 578 00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:58,880 well, let's kind of figure out how we can. 579 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:01,840 I mean, I just won't accept reality and I'll be like, oh, we 580 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:02,720 can fix it. It's fine. 581 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:08,840 And let's, but I'm not like mad at that person, but that person 582 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:13,720 will feel that because I was talking about it or I was openly 583 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:15,800 discussing it, that that was like. 584 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,040 You're looking at a systems based practice. 585 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:19,640 They're looking at it as an individual. 586 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:21,360 Yes, exactly. And they say that all the time. 587 00:28:21,360 --> 00:28:23,200 I'm like if I'm trying to solve a problem. 588 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,440 For the example you give, it's not that the $30,000 was lost. 589 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:29,640 I'm glad it wasn't 300 and I don't know this 30,000 again. 590 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,960 So what are the system like? How, what's the Swiss cheese 591 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:34,600 model that allowed this to happen? 592 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,280 And it's, and that's one thing in healthcare. 593 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:41,120 And then when you move into, you know, I'm now in, in skin care 594 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:43,040 and it's a totally different world. 595 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,240 And I the reason I think what you said is so true. 596 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,080 You could be type A, you could be type B, you could be anything 597 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,040 in the middle is because you get to delegate. 598 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:53,440 Yeah. And if you are honest with 599 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,040 yourself about what you're good at and what you're bad at, you 600 00:28:56,040 --> 00:29:00,000 will appropriately delegate what you are bad at to everybody else 601 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:01,720 that can take care of it better than you could have. 602 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:05,440 And that acknowledging that in and of itself is like, for me 603 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,960 was a journey to be like so and so was better at this than I am. 604 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:12,400 I need to let them do their job. Yeah, I'm, I'm still on that 605 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,560 too, but I, I feel like I have achieved a lot in terms of 606 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,240 growing up in through that process. 607 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,280 And I think it's really hard because, you know, we're self 608 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:27,000 funded and so it took a long time, you know, 8 years to even 609 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:29,200 get to this place right now today. 610 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:33,240 But I had to do everything. So I was really used to doing. 611 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,560 Not that I'm good or better, for sure not. 612 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:40,160 But I, you know, it's different than if you start with all this 613 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,240 funding and you're hiring experts and you never did that 614 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:44,680 job to begin with. These are things that I 615 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,280 intimately figured out myself and did them to the best of my 616 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:49,160 ability. So I think it's just harder to 617 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,760 then step back because you already have like a system in 618 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:54,200 place. Yeah, no, absolutely. 619 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:56,840 I want to talk about run about being self funded. 620 00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:58,800 I'm self funded. I was recently chatting with 621 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,200 Sunday Riley and she's self funded. 622 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,480 Yeah, she's still totally. So is the Beauty Blender 623 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:05,320 founder. Yeah. 624 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,360 And it's a much less common paradigm, I think, because now 625 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,000 you have these companies that are sort of like these finance 626 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,560 think tanks that are taking a person that they want to help 627 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:18,880 them, but then heavily funding it, taking a huge part of the 628 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,720 equity. And that's also a successful 629 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:23,680 model, right? I've seen a lot of founders do 630 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:27,720 find success with that. For you, what was the math like 631 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:30,640 in deciding that you were going to make this heavy investment in 632 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,560 yourself and then to sort of stay self funded? 633 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:36,080 Well, so it wasn't a heavy investment. 634 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,800 I spent like $30,000. It was really nothing like 635 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:43,160 literally my, our first products were like these powdered masks 636 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:47,720 and one ingredient hydrosols that I, yeah, that I sourced. 637 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:51,040 And I spent a lot of time like I went to India, I went to the 638 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,200 farms, I made those connections and some of those suppliers I, 639 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:58,600 we still work with today. But I really didn't, it wasn't 640 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,120 like I needed ten people on my team. 641 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:03,000 And I know, you know, you're pretty lean too. 642 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:04,040 And I think that is something we do. 643 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:07,080 But mine was like extremely. And I don't know that in this 644 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:09,600 day and age, maybe that's not possible. 645 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:11,840 I think anything is probably possible, but. 646 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,480 I think anything is possible. I think it's really hard with ad 647 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:17,200 spend. It's just marketing spend I 648 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:19,760 think is what crushes companies today. 649 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:25,360 And I find that's my opinion is, I mean, that's where most of my 650 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:27,520 budget goes today. And I think that would have been 651 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:31,200 hard on my academic salary. I needed to be making the money 652 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,360 I was making in private practice to be able to do what I'm. 653 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:35,960 Doing, yeah. I mean, there's so much to 654 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:41,840 unpack because it goes all the way into people thinking that 655 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:44,840 our investors or founders thinking that skin care 656 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,560 companies somehow fit this VC model. 657 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:51,440 They fit this like, OK, we get funding and for five years, you 658 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,320 know, we're going to grow this top line growth, growth at all 659 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,320 costs and then we're going to sell it to like Unilever. 660 00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:59,160 Well, the beauty industry is really specific. 661 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,400 They're not all, I mean, unless you're like a big CPG and you're 662 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:08,000 selling a pimple patch to Target or something is huge audience, 663 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,760 huge Tam skin care is there. It's so crowded. 664 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:15,720 Like if you hit like $100 million in revenue, you're like 665 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:19,400 really at the top. And that, I mean, if you talk to 666 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,160 a software company, that's like chump change for them, you know, 667 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:24,160 and this is like us getting to the pinnacle. 668 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,640 So that just tells you is a very crowded saturated market out 669 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,880 there. And when I think this ad spend 670 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,400 and all this, these challenges are coming because VCs were 671 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:38,640 pumping money and they were expecting a lot of growth. 672 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:42,520 And the easiest and best, I guess not best, but easiest way 673 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:45,440 and most obvious way to grow is through just giving your money 674 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:47,800 to Meta and TikTok and, and growing. 675 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:50,640 And so I think when all those other companies in your 676 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:52,920 competitors are doing that, what are you going to do? 677 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:57,600 How are you going to then? So it's not that I've elected to 678 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:01,120 play that game, but now you're at Sephora, so how are you not 679 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:02,480 going to play that game, or even for you? 680 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,560 It's like you're still a skin care brand in the skin care 681 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:07,240 universe. You're still fighting with all 682 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:08,960 of us. And it's especially because 683 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:10,320 you're fighting with people who have. 684 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:12,320 Distribution. Distribution and who are at 685 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:15,280 Sephora and Ulta. And it's funny, I went to Ulta 686 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:18,320 beauty world and I came out of that thing like, Oh my God, I'm 687 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:22,640 nowhere near ready for retail. Like whatever this is is not it 688 00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,280 for me. And I really doubled down on my 689 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:30,560 own like staying DTC ecom for a while and we've done very well. 690 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:34,480 But I I know that I frustrate my PR team and I know that I 691 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:38,000 frustrate a lot of people because I'm so stubborn about 692 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,880 doing it differently. One thing is I don't understand 693 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,280 influencers spend. I say that as an influencer. 694 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,000 I don't think influencers help Avara. 695 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:50,560 They because the messaging is our target consumer doesn't 696 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:52,840 really care if Gen. Z so and so is using it. 697 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:54,760 They want to know the science, they want to know if it works. 698 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:57,920 They want the before and afters, they want the story and then 699 00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,160 they will buy the product. And that to me is more about 700 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:05,000 branding and how I present my brand as to the consumer and 701 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,680 want to interfere. That is then the influencer that 702 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:09,360 I choose to work with. So I just stopped. 703 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:11,120 I completely stopped doing influencer. 704 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,239 Yeah, no, it's, it's really challenging and I actually agree 705 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:16,520 with you a lot. Like we haven't historically 706 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:19,480 done a ton with influencers. And there's like a huge reason 707 00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:24,120 for that is that I just, I think you have to know what type of 708 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:26,159 brand you are, right? If you're a brand that's putting 709 00:34:26,159 --> 00:34:28,080 a lot into the product and the science. 710 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:30,440 And for us, there's such a long story. 711 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,120 Like if I even, I mean, I'm, I'm working on this, but if I had to 712 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,320 give you like the 110 second pitch, it's like, oh, well, I 713 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:38,239 guess I can't say anything about, you know, the Indian 714 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,199 heritage or about Ayurveda or about, you know, it's like, oh, 715 00:34:41,199 --> 00:34:43,320 it's, you know, clinically proven skin care inspired by 716 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:45,080 Indian beauty or something. I could say that, but I'm 717 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:47,600 missing so many parts of my story. 718 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,159 And I think that just takes a really long time. 719 00:34:50,159 --> 00:34:53,800 Like if you look at these heritage brands, Kodily is a 720 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:57,880 great example. You know, I just even Tatcha, I 721 00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:00,040 know that's acquired by Unilever, but they're these, 722 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,960 they're still independent brands out there that but they've been 723 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:08,800 doing it for 20-30 years or they're generational and that's 724 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:13,280 a long freaking time. So I think that's when I feel 725 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:15,320 like my eight years is really nothing. 726 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:17,600 And if you look at the air mess story, I think like the first 727 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:21,960 generation they were still doing, I don't even remember, 728 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:23,480 but they were definitely not making bags. 729 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:27,240 No, it was like horse saddles. Yeah, for like 100 years, like 730 00:35:27,240 --> 00:35:29,880 that's like not even me. That's like my next kid. 731 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,400 And then maybe coming up with this idea that we should do this 732 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,720 huge thing that is going to change our trajectory. 733 00:35:34,720 --> 00:35:39,360 So I just, I think we are a little impatient as people. 734 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,960 And I think that it's so exciting to think of this idea 735 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:44,920 of like, oh, I'm going to sell in five years, which again, 736 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:48,200 people can do that. But if you have a lot that 737 00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:50,920 you're working on, you're creating, there's a huge white 738 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:53,840 space, there's, you know, no prototype. 739 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:55,240 Like people don't really understand. 740 00:35:55,240 --> 00:35:57,200 Like why do I want Indian inspired beauty? 741 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,840 People get like K beauty now and that's been around for many 742 00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:04,000 probably like 20-30 years in the US as popular. 743 00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:08,400 But I have a lot of work to do. So me pumping all this money and 744 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:12,080 ads and influencers, it's like there's so much to be done that. 745 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:15,880 People have lost supply and I agree with you, this sort of VC 746 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:18,320 culture because I, I talked to my cousin in India a lot and he 747 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:24,240 has an extremely successful international company and is a 748 00:36:24,240 --> 00:36:27,000 wealth of information. But when he gives advice and 749 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,800 he's talking about scaling and sort of the, you know, you got 750 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:31,800 to make this much by this year and by three years this and by 751 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:36,880 five years this and it, it's great advice, I think from like 752 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,520 a bird's eye view, but I find a hard time translating it in 753 00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:41,560 beauty for the exact reason that you said. 754 00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:43,520 I because then I think then I've lost the plot. 755 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:46,080 Then I'm making it about money and then I've lost what I'm 756 00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,840 actually trying to do with Avara, which is I think there's 757 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:50,480 a white space in health inclusive beauty. 758 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:52,800 I think we talk about color inclusivity all the time and we 759 00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:54,000 still have a lot of work to do there. 760 00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:56,160 Where's the health inclusive section at Sephora? 761 00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,440 Where's the, I'm going through IVF, perimenopause, menopause, 762 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,520 pregnancy, Where's that shelf? It doesn't exist. 763 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:06,080 So for me, Avara was to answer that question and it was, you 764 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:09,760 know, and there's a lot of crossover in, in ingredients, 765 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:12,360 right? Like I use ghee in our, in our 766 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:16,160 eye bomb, but I also have, you know, studied peptides and 767 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:17,560 ceramides and all of that as well. 768 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:20,880 So there's it's, you can tell the ingredients story in so many 769 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:22,720 different ways. And my angle, because it's 770 00:37:22,720 --> 00:37:25,760 authentic to who I am, was to be health inclusive and to be able 771 00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:29,600 to convince the United States and retailers and the beauty 772 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:32,240 market and editors and publishers that this is an 773 00:37:32,240 --> 00:37:34,760 important conversation while I'm just getting started. 774 00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:37,200 Exactly. You have so much to do, you're 775 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:40,760 not going to just like throw a bunch of money in ADS, like 776 00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,440 people aren't going to get it. And I think it takes a lot of 777 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:47,160 time to slowly build that base. And then eventually there will 778 00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:49,560 be a time in your business where it's like people kind of had 779 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:53,000 heard about you and were curious about you and now their favorite 780 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:56,240 influencer is talking about it. Then it's going to work for 781 00:37:56,240 --> 00:37:58,120 sure. But I don't think, and I also 782 00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:01,080 think people have changed too. And they're like way that they 783 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:05,520 take in content and consumption. I think everyone sees influencer 784 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:07,200 talking about it. I think it's helpful. 785 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:09,840 It's great to get that visibility, but the conversion 786 00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:14,200 is not just the influencer, it's what's their history been with 787 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:18,960 that brand and how warm is that audience already to that 788 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:21,440 product. And then it works. 789 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:23,320 I agree. I, you know, I and I tell brands 790 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:24,480 all the time when they approach me. 791 00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:27,280 I'm very database so I'll say like there are certain product 792 00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:30,120 categories I know that I can move and there are some that. 793 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:32,400 Wait, what do you move the most? Jewelry. 794 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:34,880 Oh, and then you were just telling me you're. 795 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:36,680 Like I do really well with jewelry. 796 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:40,680 I do really well with skin care, makeup, so and so clothing. 797 00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:42,720 Interestingly, I can link Abercrombie. 798 00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:45,680 My my followers won't buy it. I put something from the outnet 799 00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:47,480 my Teresa. They'll they'll buy it, they'll 800 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:50,080 sell it out. It's wild, but I but also like 801 00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:51,800 the inventory is lower. So when I say sell it out there, 802 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:55,120 the number available may not be. You know, you're like, I want to 803 00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:59,800 say our number two shot my person, so I'll show it to you 804 00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:00,640 later. Oh my. 805 00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:03,000 Gosh, I love that. But you know what I think 806 00:39:03,240 --> 00:39:06,040 because people have been hearing me talk about the brand for two 807 00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:08,840 years now. So when I say when I use it, 808 00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:10,920 they don't feel like I'm selling to them. 809 00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,800 There's an authenticity because I actually use it and I've been 810 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,480 using it. And therefore I will never ever, 811 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,080 ever take an influencer partnership with a brand that I 812 00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:23,800 don't authentically use. No, honestly, brands appreciate 813 00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:25,480 that too. And I, I think that that's a 814 00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:29,040 little bit of a struggle because there was a previous model where 815 00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:31,680 people would Oh yeah, I really like this brand. 816 00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:33,960 I'm going to post about it a little bit, get the brand's 817 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:36,600 attention and then hopefully, you know, it would be great to 818 00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:38,280 work with the brand that I love. Now. 819 00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:42,320 It's like all super pay to play. And I think that takes away 820 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:44,600 inherently the authenticity. And I get it. 821 00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:46,160 I, I want to pay people for their work. 822 00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:49,560 I know, you know, being an influencer is a livelihood and I 823 00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,280 fully support that. But at the same time, we have to 824 00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,120 know that we can't just be transactional just the way that 825 00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:58,120 I'm not transactional with my Sephora merchants. 826 00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:01,080 You know, I genuinely care about them and I'm building an honest 827 00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:03,360 relationship. I'm not just like going up to 828 00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:05,440 them when I need something. I think we're seeing a shift now 829 00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,440 because I, you know, as a very small brand, I know for me, I 830 00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:10,600 just, it doesn't help my top of funnel. 831 00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:13,600 I have decided that for my and every time the team brings it 832 00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:15,280 up, I'm like, no, no, we're not doing it. 833 00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:18,400 And also there's enough people who genuinely love the brand and 834 00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:22,040 when they reach out, I'm like, OK, this might be someone who 835 00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:24,240 like, I've seen them post about it, they genuinely like it. 836 00:40:24,240 --> 00:40:25,840 Now let's explore that partnership. 837 00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:28,920 But just paying people to talk about the I don't know, to me. 838 00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:31,360 That makes me feel better because we haven't really been 839 00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:35,320 doing a ton in that world and we've always been, especially 840 00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:38,800 for macro people, it's always been like who's talked about us 841 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,560 before and that's who we want to work with. 842 00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:44,240 And because that makes sense, like I'm not going to then start 843 00:40:44,240 --> 00:40:46,680 paying people. Finally, we have a budget and 844 00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:48,520 all of all of a sudden it's like you're paying all these people 845 00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:51,120 that like have never talked about the brand I want to 846 00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:55,200 support when I have budget, the people like even Ami, like I'm 847 00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:58,320 always like Ami, I know you're going to do everything for free, 848 00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:01,120 but like, please don't like because I love you and you 849 00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:04,880 actually you convert. You have a real business and 850 00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:07,120 you've been talking about us literally from the beginning. 851 00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:11,240 So like if I'm going to pay someone I've it feels bad to me 852 00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:14,240 to then go and use that money somewhere else. 853 00:41:14,240 --> 00:41:17,040 Literally same thing with Ami. I actually emailed her team like 854 00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:18,320 I'm not even going to, I'm just going. 855 00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:20,920 To e-mail her. Team because I was like, you 856 00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:25,640 know, and it, it matters and I think people can can tell and 857 00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:27,960 that's also why I think follower accounts kind of bullshit and I 858 00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:29,200 think views are kind of bullshit. 859 00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:32,200 I to me it doesn't necessarily correlate with how a certain 860 00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:34,720 personality or presence can move product. 861 00:41:36,240 --> 00:41:39,280 I haven't figured it out, but my current approach is let's just 862 00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:41,200 really double down on what we're about. 863 00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:43,120 The rest will come. I love that. 864 00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:47,920 I love a good strong opinion because I feel like that was my 865 00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:49,160 whole thing with being self funded. 866 00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:52,120 And again, maybe you know, you'll do influencer marketing 867 00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:54,040 in a big way and maybe I'll get investors one day. 868 00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:59,240 It can change at any time, but I just have had conviction around 869 00:41:59,240 --> 00:42:04,080 certain things and I think those are the bets that have paid off 870 00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:07,120 the most out of anything. So I think what you're doing on 871 00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:09,800 influencer and this bet that you're making that feels like in 872 00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:11,840 a world of everyone else doing something differently, I think 873 00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:13,480 this is going to be really important for you. 874 00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,560 You heard it here first, guys. Obviously Roundabout is wildly 875 00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:19,880 successful. How do you see the future of 876 00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:24,240 beauty Beauty tech? Beauty AI affecting or changing 877 00:42:24,240 --> 00:42:26,000 your growth, do you see it affecting or changing your 878 00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:30,960 growth and at the where you sit today in 2026, does it play into 879 00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:33,840 how you look at your growth plan or what the future looks like 880 00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:36,440 for run about? When you say beauty tech beauty, 881 00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:41,640 I like whether. It's like, I know yeah, like 882 00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:45,400 whether we're are we going to start paying these AI like 883 00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,240 ChatGPT and Claude to recommend our you know, that's another 884 00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:50,880 form of marketing. Like we can do that more and 885 00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:54,320 more women are going to Claude and and other AI platforms to 886 00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:57,360 ask. I have mature scan like what are 887 00:42:57,360 --> 00:42:59,760 you? Getting lol orders isn't that 888 00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:01,200 weird. Like recommendations like 889 00:43:01,240 --> 00:43:02,960 roundabouts getting recommended by like. 890 00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:04,120 I can see it now. Yeah. 891 00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:06,960 Well, I think it speaks back to SEO and sort of like I think it 892 00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:09,520 has to do with think if you've intentionally built your brand, 893 00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:11,760 then AI mean AI has to pick from somewhere, right? 894 00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:14,560 But it's very quickly becoming also pay to play. 895 00:43:15,720 --> 00:43:19,440 And so when I think of a Vara like our target demographic, 896 00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:21,560 it's fine. I kind of use AI every once in a 897 00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:25,920 while, but I'm not heavy on AI and I still am very when I buy 898 00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:29,040 products, I care about word of mouth, I care about the science 899 00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:30,560 behind it. I like to look at reviews, I 900 00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:33,320 like to look at data, but that's my target demographic. 901 00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:36,600 How has that entered your sort of sphere yet? 902 00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:40,120 Do you feel affected buy it yet? I don't know about affected by 903 00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:45,080 it, but I, I, I'm a big AI user, but I use it for deep analysis 904 00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:48,320 and deep thinking because I'm inherently a nerd just like you. 905 00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:51,000 And I'm like, oh, during our gift with purchase, how many 906 00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:52,400 people? What is the combination? 907 00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:56,040 Or, you know, I just like love dissecting the data in every 908 00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:59,520 which way possible so that I can better make decisions and form 909 00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:01,720 the team of what's going on. So that's just my personal 910 00:44:01,720 --> 00:44:05,880 thing, but I think as more and more people, I mean, I don't 911 00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:08,960 know where beauty comes in and especially a brand like ours, 912 00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:11,240 because it's so niche and beautiful. 913 00:44:11,240 --> 00:44:14,680 It's like, I know we've grown a lot with word of mouth, just 914 00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:17,840 like what you've done for us. I've grown a lot that way. 915 00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:20,160 And I think it's going to continue to be that case because 916 00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:24,960 I, I do feel like, you know, it is such a personal thing and 917 00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:29,760 you're so much more excited to buy $135 serum when, like, your 918 00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:32,120 best friend tells you that it's like, the best thing that 919 00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:34,320 they've ever tried. Yeah, Like that's always going 920 00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:38,080 to outperform like a ChatGPT prompt. 921 00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:41,600 And I think that's almost like going to ChatGPT to be like, so 922 00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:43,640 who should I be friends with? These are the characteristics of 923 00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:45,960 the people. And like who do you think I 924 00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:48,560 should be friends with? It's it's a little bit like that 925 00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:52,040 because skin care, a lot of it is personal preference. 926 00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:55,600 There's no right or wrong. It's kind of like ChatGPT for 927 00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:57,640 fashion. Isn't fashion about our own 928 00:44:57,640 --> 00:44:59,880 self-expression? So should we be? 929 00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:02,640 It's OK to have help and answer questions. 930 00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:05,880 And that's where I see it be really helpful. 931 00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:11,640 So we'll prompt and we'll put in like our inky list, ingredient 932 00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:13,960 list, our top, you know, like other products. 933 00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:16,280 And I'm like, OK, what do you think the FAQs are going to be 934 00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:18,840 from customers And like, let's analyze that. 935 00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:21,800 And so we'll look at that and we'll, you know, be able to end 936 00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:24,200 and even just like layering stories and different things 937 00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:27,040 that we can pull together, it can help with that. 938 00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:32,240 So it's more the like how and not the like initial convincing. 939 00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:35,320 I mean, who knows if. See, that's my concern is I 940 00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:40,120 agree with you, but I feel like just like the VC conversation is 941 00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:42,560 changing the beauty landscape, I feel like AI is going to 942 00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:46,520 further. It just pushes people to look to 943 00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:50,000 these databases and whatnot to get information when otherwise 944 00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:54,640 brands that are beautiful, that are ritualistic, experiential, 945 00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:58,320 that are that have like true personality and stories to them. 946 00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:00,480 I, I hope that they don't get lost. 947 00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:03,280 That's my fear I. Just don't know because right 948 00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:07,440 now I feel like there's only two players in this industry to get 949 00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:11,440 eyeballs at mass. It's meta and TikTok and adding 950 00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:13,920 a third. I mean, maybe that's just going 951 00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:17,480 to further level out the playing field perhaps. 952 00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:21,480 And then maybe you're, you know, it's more tactical and there's 953 00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:25,760 some type of reason and brand that gets promoted on ChatGPT 954 00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:27,880 and maybe there's a different and then maybe that creates more 955 00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:31,920 space on Meta or TikTok and. I'm hoping the pendulum swings 956 00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:34,320 back. That's my my long term is that I 957 00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:37,680 think things are going to get weird for a little bit, but I 958 00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:39,760 think what's going to end up happening is people will that 959 00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:43,240 much more appreciate the brands that kept it authentic, that 960 00:46:43,240 --> 00:46:46,200 have real models, that have real testers, that have real stories. 961 00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:48,160 That's my hope. Yeah, and I think, you know, 962 00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:50,000 we're building a sensorial brand too. 963 00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:52,360 It's like the colors, the look, the feel. 964 00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:55,000 The. Fragrance, like everything, is 965 00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:57,680 just so. Authentic into the fragrance, 966 00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:00,240 whoever is watching. Oh my God, I love it. 967 00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:06,160 So yeah, so I think we're building something that is so 3 968 00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:10,200 dimensional and not something that even like on social media, 969 00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:12,120 just like being like, oh, this beautiful fragrance, like you 970 00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:15,960 can't smell it. So I think that there's always 971 00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:19,720 going to be a yearning for beautiful objects, for how art 972 00:47:19,720 --> 00:47:23,200 is created, how we see hands. Like even now when we think 973 00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:27,440 about like, again, the Irma's example of like, OK, a lot of 974 00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:29,320 what they do think, they show the stitching behind their 975 00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:31,040 things. They're showing the human hands 976 00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:34,200 behind their work and why. Is human. 977 00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:35,920 It's not computer generated. Right. 978 00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:39,240 And why in this era of this brand that has every resource, 979 00:47:39,240 --> 00:47:41,480 why are they going back to like the simple hands that are 980 00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:43,080 weaving? And why is that luxury? 981 00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:47,720 And I think it just goes down to our own ethos is that, you know, 982 00:47:47,720 --> 00:47:50,680 maybe we're not going to be the biggest brand that gets 983 00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:52,920 discovered on chat DBT. And I think that's OK because 984 00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:54,480 people are going to come to us for a different. 985 00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:56,360 Reason for a different reason. Yeah, I love that. 986 00:47:56,800 --> 00:48:01,000 I love that. And I, I hope that people see 987 00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:04,040 the connection to India in a really meaningful way. 988 00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:08,960 Like, I don't know if you got targeted with the Fendi bag. 989 00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:12,360 There was like a little and they were showing like these are 990 00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:15,000 these beaded bags. Oh yeah, yeah, super luxury. 991 00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:16,560 And they had like every little detail. 992 00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:19,280 And then Prada had these like, chuckles. 993 00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:25,400 And so I think it's just really fascinating that somehow some 994 00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:29,440 way, just like Indian artisanship is, it was always 995 00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:31,120 there. That's like, the crazy thing is 996 00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:32,440 like. How all of us had. 997 00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:38,040 We did and all these brands have been using Indian craftsmanship 998 00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:40,480 for a really long time. But like saying made in India 999 00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:42,800 wasn't cool, I had to be, oh, it's Parisian fashion or 1000 00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:46,000 whatever. And now they're starting to lift 1001 00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:50,720 the veil on the beauty and the things that people love about 1002 00:48:50,720 --> 00:48:54,080 these fashion houses is connected to India. 1003 00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:55,840 And now people are forced to see that. 1004 00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:57,680 Well, I think we're. Forcing their hand a little bit. 1005 00:48:57,720 --> 00:49:00,560 You know, Prada didn't initially acknowledge that, right? 1006 00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:03,680 I think Fendi learned from them. And then Fendi was like, OK, 1007 00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:04,600 we're not going to do that, right? 1008 00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:06,680 But then Ralph Lauren came out with their bandhani print. 1009 00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:08,880 Oh my God. And the Jamiki is it, you know, 1010 00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:13,520 so I think part of of that is having the diaspora. 1011 00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:15,880 We are more international, we're more global. 1012 00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:18,080 We have founders like you who have doubled down on the message 1013 00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:22,080 from day one, right? So it's like you can't pretend 1014 00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:25,960 like things like saffron and and these experiential sense that 1015 00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:28,000 are Jasmine based. I mean, they're they are very 1016 00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:29,800 characteristically Indian, right? 1017 00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:33,600 And we may have crossover with other cultures, but when a brand 1018 00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:36,400 is very clear about that messaging, then another brand 1019 00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:40,240 trying to dupe, like consumers are now smarter because they're 1020 00:49:40,240 --> 00:49:42,160 like, wait a second. They can feel the 1021 00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:44,360 inauthenticity, which I think is great because now we're holding 1022 00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:47,400 people more accountable, not just because Indian people are 1023 00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:50,040 now more global and we're holding people accountable, but 1024 00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:54,840 I have patients of all different cultures and they love the scent 1025 00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:59,040 of your saffron serum. And they will say that like this 1026 00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:01,280 feels Indian to me in a really beautiful way. 1027 00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:04,240 And they're not Indian to know that necessarily, but they've 1028 00:50:04,240 --> 00:50:06,640 now made that association such that I think of another company 1029 00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:09,280 tried to copy it or do it or not give credit. 1030 00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:10,720 They're like they're a little bit wiser. 1031 00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:14,120 Now I know and I hope so. And I think what I really have 1032 00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:16,320 noticed through this entire experience, and I even think 1033 00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:19,440 about my own team, Not every person on my team is Indian, but 1034 00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:22,480 somehow they're able to connect in it in a deep way where it's 1035 00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:25,160 their life's work. Hillary spent more time at work 1036 00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:27,560 than they do at home, and it's on this like Indian brand and 1037 00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:30,360 this mission. And so that makes me feel really 1038 00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:34,880 just proud of them also. But our Indian culture that it 1039 00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:37,040 like brings people together. And I think this whole 1040 00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:40,120 realization that I've had is that, well, you know, we're, 1041 00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:42,520 we're more alike than we think that we give ourselves credit 1042 00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:45,360 for. And it's unfortunate that people 1043 00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:49,840 feel, and I hope we can sort of put an end to this. 1044 00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:53,000 But Indian beauty is just for Indian people, and that really 1045 00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:56,200 needs to end because people don't think that about Korean 1046 00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:58,040 beauty. Everyone wants to use KBD. 1047 00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:00,680 Oh yeah, I use KBD. I'm in the future and all these 1048 00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:02,920 things. That's amazing and I love that 1049 00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:06,680 branding and that story. But the biggest problem that 1050 00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:10,120 Indian beauty has is that it's based a lot on, you know, I 1051 00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:13,240 guess we, we knew what we were doing 5000 years ago, which now 1052 00:51:13,240 --> 00:51:16,640 I think is, is a challenge because people think that 1053 00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:20,720 because it's been so long that somehow it's outdated. 1054 00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:24,600 So like tracking your sleep and Ayurvedic doctors, that's been 1055 00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:26,960 happening, you know, for for a long time. 1056 00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:28,840 I. Mean we grew up oiling our hair 1057 00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:32,120 that's just so crazy to me is like there's a reason our hair 1058 00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:36,440 looks like this and it's we grew up with these practices and it 1059 00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:38,560 works right. And I think the other thing, one 1060 00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:41,080 of the branding words I really like about roundabout is use the 1061 00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:45,880 word ritual a lot because it really is it glamorizes a 1062 00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:47,760 practice that we've already had. It is a ritual. 1063 00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:50,520 It was a ritual for me and my grandmother and my mother on 1064 00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:52,960 Saturday mornings and even now I ask my daughter, she knows 1065 00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:54,360 Saturday or Sunday. Those are the two days we're 1066 00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:56,080 going to do a nice little oil scalp massage. 1067 00:51:56,080 --> 00:52:00,360 And when you I think respect that ritual, you then I think 1068 00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:03,120 really hard now about like, I mean I'm growing out my graves, 1069 00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:05,200 but like, do I want to color them? 1070 00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:06,880 How what do I put it? Like, do I want to, to apply 1071 00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:09,720 heat because I value it as a ritual and because I have this 1072 00:52:09,720 --> 00:52:13,160 beautiful bottle and it take the time and I, it now has made me 1073 00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:15,800 sort of come full circle and realize I'm going to respect 1074 00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:18,640 this organ that I have and think a little bit more about it. 1075 00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:21,120 And so when people do ask why your hair is so healthy, yes, 1076 00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:23,640 some of it's genetic. A lot of it is definitely I 1077 00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:26,640 credit the products that I use, but I also, I don't apply heat 1078 00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:27,960 all the time. I don't. 1079 00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:30,160 I know I don't. Care that often. 1080 00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:33,160 But I think it's important for Someone Like You to be sharing 1081 00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:36,200 that message because you're a doctor and you work in the 1082 00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:37,720 world, the modern science all the time. 1083 00:52:37,720 --> 00:52:40,680 And sometimes I feel, and that's why I think we've always 1084 00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:44,520 gravitated towards you is because we are always looking 1085 00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:46,760 for that like accreditation that you have. 1086 00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:49,960 Because it's like, if your derm is saying that, then you know 1087 00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:51,920 that you have access to every other product. 1088 00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:55,240 And of course, this is not in place of a laser treatment. 1089 00:52:55,240 --> 00:52:57,640 Like, we're not going to say that this is going to do more 1090 00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:02,120 than it does, but good skin care, doing it ritualistically, 1091 00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:06,520 like on a daily basis, twice a day, it really does make a 1092 00:53:06,520 --> 00:53:08,560 difference. And it's so important for us to 1093 00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:11,000 like, take care of our skin and love ourselves in that way. 1094 00:53:11,240 --> 00:53:13,640 I know I totally agree. And I, it's, I always say like 1095 00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:15,280 when people come in and they want to laser, but they don't 1096 00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:18,560 use SPF or when they comment or they're like, we really want 1097 00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:21,520 hair advice, but they treat their hair like garbage. 1098 00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:24,040 You know, I'm like, I'm really trying to save you money here, 1099 00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:26,760 Change your habits, then work in these products. 1100 00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:29,200 Yes, they will work in synergy for the better result. 1101 00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:33,800 But you know, another fun story is I, when we were launching 1102 00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:35,960 Avara, we were talking with retailers and there was one 1103 00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:38,800 really big retailer that we thought about launching with and 1104 00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:42,160 they wanted us to go fragrance free and we have eucalyptus in 1105 00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:46,160 our products. And I was very picky that I was 1106 00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:48,600 not going to change that because for me, experientially, 1107 00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:51,800 eucalyptus has always been, especially at the Ayurveda, very 1108 00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:56,040 much part of healing recovery, sort of a yeah, exactly. 1109 00:53:56,040 --> 00:53:58,640 Aromatherapy, A universally relaxing, healing scent. 1110 00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:01,120 Now, there is such a thing as a eucalyptus allergy. 1111 00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:03,400 And it is possible that a certain percentage of people are 1112 00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:06,880 not going to like it. But I'm OK not being for 1113 00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:08,560 everybody. And when I think of your 1114 00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:10,880 products, I think the same. You know, I heard from one 1115 00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:12,920 person that they didn't love the scent of it, but I've heard from 1116 00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:17,640 121 hour. Reviews, you'll hear the most 1117 00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:19,840 different review, you'll be one person will be like, I'm 1118 00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:22,320 obsessed with the scent. This is amazing and then the 1119 00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:25,240 person literally right under will be like the scent wasn't 1120 00:54:25,240 --> 00:54:26,800 for me and. I that's fine. 1121 00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:29,640 Don't need to be for everybody, and I think being niche in that 1122 00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:31,840 way will always be our superpower. 1123 00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:34,360 And I think that there was just a lot of information out there 1124 00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:38,680 on like, scent is bad and perhaps it can be, but ours is 1125 00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:41,160 all like you're smelling the saffron, you know, these are 1126 00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:43,200 all. We don't use any synthetic 1127 00:54:44,120 --> 00:54:47,360 fragrances or scents to. It is the ingredients. 1128 00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:49,920 It's the ingredients. The ingredients normalize that 1129 00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:52,040 ingredients might have a scent to them and that's. 1130 00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:53,560 Oh my God, I know we could talk forever. 1131 00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:56,560 I know I have to wrap this up, but I wanted to end on like 1132 00:54:56,560 --> 00:54:59,080 telling you a story of a little Avara struggle we're dealing 1133 00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:02,840 with, but also just because it highlights how our customers 1134 00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:07,360 have been or just customers in general have been trained to be 1135 00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:10,240 so picky about certain things I almost think work against them. 1136 00:55:10,240 --> 00:55:14,320 Like scent, for example, you know, like vitamin good, vitamin 1137 00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:17,320 C is going to have a scent to it or it may change color in the 1138 00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:19,440 bottle. That's literally how vitamin C 1139 00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:22,280 is. So when people are like, Oh my 1140 00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:24,600 God, the cut. I have a friend with a skin care 1141 00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:26,240 company and she was telling me about, you know, the color 1142 00:55:26,240 --> 00:55:27,720 change a little bit in the bottle, but that doesn't mean 1143 00:55:27,720 --> 00:55:30,840 it's any less efficacious. And, you know, consumers were 1144 00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:33,440 upset about that. Or I know when CE Farula came 1145 00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:35,520 out, like the scent is different. 1146 00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:38,440 It has a sort of burnt scent to it and people really upset 1147 00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:41,480 hypochloris. My hypochloris spray, we got so 1148 00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:44,560 many messages. It has like a a scent to it. 1149 00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:47,040 You know, how do I know that it's not spoiled? 1150 00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:48,920 I'm like, that's how you know, the hypochloris is active. 1151 00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:51,920 And by the way, I spent a lot of money on that component and 1152 00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:54,200 formulation so that you'd have a three months shelf life with 1153 00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:56,040 your hypochloris. Please don't hate it. 1154 00:55:56,040 --> 00:55:58,880 It just means that it's working. So it's I feel like now 1155 00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:02,880 consumers have become so demanding, but almost about the 1156 00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:04,440 wrong things. And I hesitate to say it as a 1157 00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:07,080 founder, I don't think y'all are picky like stay picky, stay 1158 00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:09,800 cognizant, but care about the right things. 1159 00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:13,840 And so I'll tell you we we're going to launch our minis and we 1160 00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:16,360 sold out on pre-order, which I wasn't expecting, which is 1161 00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:17,640 great. Also a terrible problem if 1162 00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:18,800 you're a founder because inventory. 1163 00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:21,200 Like you want. That stresses me out more than I 1164 00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:25,320 have a story about that. But if we are talking, I was 1165 00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:27,760 like, OK, well we'll just I was like stop advertising it, pull 1166 00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:29,480 the ads like let's just fill the pre-order. 1167 00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:32,160 And then in filling the pre-order sales, we realized 1168 00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:33,880 that the mini cuticle component was cracking. 1169 00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:38,480 And I was like I can't, I can't. And we got every opinion across 1170 00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:41,160 like they won't know by the time it's not every component. 1171 00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:44,560 And I was like, I cannot sell a brand at a luxury price point 1172 00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:47,640 and know that a component isn't great and sell it. 1173 00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:51,000 So I was like, sell them the full to send them the full size. 1174 00:56:51,240 --> 00:56:53,680 Leave that pocket empty. We'll figure it out. 1175 00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:56,040 So right now I have like, sorry for all the pending for you. 1176 00:56:56,200 --> 00:56:59,120 I feel bad. I apologize, but I was like, 1177 00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:00,440 send him a message from the founder. 1178 00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:03,120 I'm just not going to do that. Something shitty in your hands 1179 00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:05,680 and I will make it up to you. I'm sending you the full size in 1180 00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:08,560 the meantime, or like we have some that I'm literally waiting 1181 00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:10,880 on this new component to make sure that it's not. 1182 00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:13,200 And they were like, OK, can we send an e-mail? 1183 00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:15,200 We'll send it out. I'm like, no, I need to have it 1184 00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:16,600 in my hand. I need to know that it's not 1185 00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:17,760 leaking. I need to know that it's not 1186 00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:19,040 cracking. Then I will send it out. 1187 00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:21,440 And if not, then you all will send an e-mail next week that 1188 00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:24,240 you sent them the full size and that that is going to be empty 1189 00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:29,080 in the box because I cannot. But I know we're, I know we're 1190 00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:30,960 getting angry emails. What happened to our And I was 1191 00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:32,040 very honest. I was like, you don't need to 1192 00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:33,240 lie to them. You can tell them I had an issue 1193 00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:34,720 with the component. I don't want to send something 1194 00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:38,000 faulty. Send them a 15% off coupon and I 1195 00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:39,640 will come back to them with an answer. 1196 00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:43,960 But it's the onslaught of anger is like, man, y'all really don't 1197 00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:47,080 give us space or time to be a small company and to figure 1198 00:57:47,080 --> 00:57:48,960 things out. Like, we're really doing our 1199 00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:51,400 best here. I've done customer service many 1200 00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:55,520 times and I continue to like dig in there and we have an amazing 1201 00:57:55,520 --> 00:57:57,200 team right now. But I give them so much credit 1202 00:57:57,200 --> 00:57:59,360 when one of the things that we do in our Monday morning 1203 00:57:59,360 --> 00:58:03,720 meetings as we go through and we have like ACX rundown and yeah, 1204 00:58:03,720 --> 00:58:05,920 I think it's so important. I think the biggest thing you 1205 00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:08,000 can do is just like that over communication. 1206 00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:10,560 Like we always think at our company like there's just no 1207 00:58:10,560 --> 00:58:14,560 limit to how much you can share. And I think having that 1208 00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:17,160 integrity. So any doubt that I have, and 1209 00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:19,520 this is after, you know, years and years of creating a product, 1210 00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:23,200 if I feel that there's like the slightest bit of like, oh, you 1211 00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:24,840 know what? I think it just kind of, if I 1212 00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:28,880 use it too much, it burns. That is like you have to think 1213 00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:32,880 that whatever minor thing that has occurred in your head is 1214 00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:37,160 going to be blown up like 50 times in the real world because 1215 00:58:37,160 --> 00:58:39,640 we often want to think and entrepreneurs want to think, 1216 00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:41,440 I'll be fine. Like it's not going to happen. 1217 00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:42,480 It just happened to be this one time. 1218 00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:43,880 I'm gonna make all these excuses in my head. 1219 00:58:44,120 --> 00:58:45,640 Oh, it's because I use this other product. 1220 00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:48,640 You know what? You'll turn a 10,000 or $100,000 1221 00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:50,920 loss into something much bigger. Into something so much more. 1222 00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:54,160 It is just never worth it. It's always best and that's why 1223 00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:57,120 we like to have backups and we're working on that of like, 1224 00:58:57,480 --> 00:59:00,520 OK, if this product launch somehow, you know, we're you 1225 00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:02,680 know, we're working like a year in advance and if six months 1226 00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:06,120 down the line and we don't use any pre made formulas like we 1227 00:59:06,120 --> 00:59:08,200 are taking everything from scratch. 1228 00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:12,160 So there's there are times where something may not work and we 1229 00:59:12,160 --> 00:59:13,520 have to pull. So we need another product. 1230 00:59:13,520 --> 00:59:15,240 So we're trying to get to that place. 1231 00:59:15,600 --> 00:59:18,840 But one of the things that I want to share that we did is 1232 00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:23,200 we're talking about sellouts and our sunscreen for the Sephora 1233 00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:27,680 savings event was going crazy. And this was at a time where and 1234 00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:29,800 even if we didn't need the sales, I would have probably 1235 00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:33,640 done this, but we really needed to prove to Sephora that we had 1236 00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:36,520 the power and that we could sell units. 1237 00:59:36,520 --> 00:59:39,920 And so we did this, you know, huge campaign and people we had, 1238 00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:42,640 we had paid influencers to talk about the sunscreen. 1239 00:59:42,640 --> 00:59:45,200 So we had all this like paid spend behind it and it went out 1240 00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:47,640 of stock on like the third day. And we were like. 1241 00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:49,720 OK. This is like our number 2 skew 1242 00:59:49,720 --> 00:59:52,880 and like all this effort that we've made is now going to go in 1243 00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:56,760 the trash. So we found the, the DC's, the 1244 00:59:56,760 --> 00:59:58,280 distribution centers. We found there was one in 1245 00:59:58,280 --> 01:00:02,120 Nevada. The COO rented a van and he 1246 01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:06,560 drove with the with his demand planner. 1247 01:00:06,680 --> 01:00:08,360 The two of them took a road trip. 1248 01:00:08,360 --> 01:00:12,400 They drove to our our warehouse. They packed it with all these 1249 01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:14,080 boxes. This is before even getting the 1250 01:00:14,080 --> 01:00:17,160 PO from Sephora and they went all the way to Vegas. 1251 01:00:17,160 --> 01:00:19,680 They got there and we got a message from Sephora being like, 1252 01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:21,680 you know what? We submitted the PO for 1253 01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:25,120 replenishment, but it's not going to drop until. 24 hours. 1254 01:00:25,440 --> 01:00:28,960 So they stayed there that night. The next day they found a way of 1255 01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:33,000 printer labeled all these boxes and they walked it right into 1256 01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:37,000 their DC and had it not hit in that moment that was like a 1257 01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:41,560 Friday of the sales event, we would have missed like 60 K of 1258 01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:44,880 sales or something. And at the end of the entire 1259 01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:49,560 savings event, that 60K, it was like how much we were up and 1260 01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:52,560 like, what they were so happy like about. 1261 01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:57,080 And without this like entire production, you know, if someone 1262 01:00:57,080 --> 01:00:59,560 could easily say like, Oh yeah, you didn't do a good enough job 1263 01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:01,240 demand planning. Let's focus on that. 1264 01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:04,320 And just, like, cry about. It solve the problem and then 1265 01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:05,680 you can play Monday morning quarterback later. 1266 01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:08,680 Well, I just felt like the team, I'm so proud of them. 1267 01:01:08,680 --> 01:01:12,200 Like, yes, maybe they could have demand plan a little bit better, 1268 01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:15,840 but I actually think that's like pointless and nobody's going to 1269 01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:18,280 be 100%. And the skill that they showed, 1270 01:01:18,280 --> 01:01:19,760 which is I will solve the problem. 1271 01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:23,440 I'll do whatever it takes. I will take a road trip on a 1272 01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:27,720 random Wednesday and go to Vegas to make this happen. 1273 01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:29,360 And that's on being a female founder. 1274 01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:30,840 Yeah. And that's how we're going to 1275 01:01:30,880 --> 01:01:32,440 end. Thank you so much for joining us 1276 01:01:32,440 --> 01:01:33,520 on Inside Thoughts Out Loud.