Doctor Lucky C Khan, I cannot wait to hear your inside
thoughts out loud. So Doctor Lucky, I mean, I could
give you the full blown medical introduction.
She's a highly qualified reproductive endocrinologist,
infertility specialist. She practices in New York.
And she has just released the Lucky egg.
And I'm actually going to start by talking about it because
here's the deal is I know that you are a wealth of information
about infertility. And I know that every media
outlet has been chasing you down to get your thoughts and your
expertise. And I love that.
But I actually have a lot of questions for you that have
nothing to do with your day job. I'm so ready for that.
Yeah, so I did want to ask about the book though, because
obviously, well, I shouldn't say obviously, I'll ask you.
It's called the Lucky Egg, which I thought was just the cutest
best name ever because I would assume it's a play on your name.
Yes, of course. And I'm also, I'm just a
believer in everything takes a little bit of luck, right?
And I think luck is a little bit of hope.
Everyone hopes for a little bit of luck.
And I know in my own life, sure, I worked hard, I studied hard.
I also sometimes was just in the right place at the right time or
I met the right person at the right time.
And so I want you to tell me why you named it the Lucky Egg,
because to me it's just like the perfect.
Title. Yeah.
And I think it's really honest, right?
I think it's really honest of you to say, look at all my
accomplishments. But obviously being in the right
place at the right time helps. Yeah.
And I think, you know, as a fertility expert that helps
people navigate trying to get pregnant day in, day out,
there's so much that can't be explained by science and stats.
And we can't reduce people down to science and stats and put you
in a category just based on your age or how many eggs you have.
I think that's not helpful to women.
It's not helpful to people to feel like they're just boxed in.
And there are so many people know of, of situations and I'm
sure you've heard of them and your friends or family or just
hearing stories of people that have failed multiple cycles and
then lo and behold, on a break between treatment cycles that
got pregnant. All the time yes friends who
have that story or they had an infertility experience, an IVF
experience and then they naturally conceived right their
second child. So I've always felt every
success in life has a little bit of luck, Yes.
And so I, I just loved the title.
I wanted to. Thank you.
And obviously I'm not saying what you do doesn't matter, of
course, but it's leaving room for that unknown.
And I think that we as doctors, the more we acknowledge that
unknown and say, hey, we don't have all the answers.
We can't control everything. Exactly.
I think that that's actually something that restores trust
between US and. Trust and hope and I think those
two things are really, really important.
Exactly. And so you know, you have a very
well known Instagram profile and you talk about a lot of topics.
Obviously it's focused on infertility because that is what
you do and that is your specialty in medicine.
But I love that you incorporate a lot of just a lot of social
commentary, what it's like to be a woman in medicine.
And I, my favorite content is when you really just take down
these Wellness grifters. And I find, and as a breast
cancer reconstructive surgeon, there are certain populations
that are just vulnerable to misinformation and
disinformation because they're a group of individuals that are
actively seeking information online.
So for me, I see it a lot in the breast cancer community because
these women want information and they're looking for good
information. And sometimes that makes that
population a bit vulnerable. How do you feel about the
infertility or sort of just in general pregnancy misinformation
out there? And would you consider them a
vulnerable population? Absolutely.
I mean, what's more vulnerable than having a process that you
cannot control? And the most fundamental thing
in life for a lot of people is their future family and wanting
to know that they did everything to set their future child up for
success. So if someone comes in and says,
take this supplement and you're going to have a child that has a
higher IQ and is healthier and, or you, you will conceive if you
do XYZ. And it's always these very easy,
you know, quick fixes that are kind of magical, like I'm going
to help you reverse your egg quality issues.
You don't need IVF. You don't need to do the hard
things. You don't need to listen to your
doctor. And it's always driving a wedge
between doctors and patients, making them feel a sense of
distrust that clinics are just out to get their money.
I mean it's. Ridiculous because they always
will say like what the doctors don't tell you.
I hate that. So much.
I'm telling you everything like I'm we're not.
There's no secret pact or society where we're withholding
information. And where's that person getting
that information from, pray tell?
Like. I mean, not the medical school
that they didn't go to exactly or the residency that they never
did or the licensure that they don't have.
Yeah, I, I mean, I don't know how people sleep at night when
they're actively grifting and they know that what they're
doing is complete. BSI had someone slip up once who
was like in a social situation trying to tell me about this new
supplement thing that they were. And they were like, listen,
people are willing to do anything.
And my mouth dropped to the floor.
And I think they realize, oh, shit, I'm talking to a
physician. But that lays bare the reality
of it 100. Percent.
And there's a lot of like, what's the harm or why not?
Or maybe if it works, because I think sometimes there is
somebody wants it so badly. Right, you want to believe that
it can help you of. Course, of course.
But if it sounds too good to be true.
Yeah, it often is. It often is and I I love seeing
more qualified medical professionals and healthcare
professionals in the social media space because more often
than not you're getting valid information from them.
But I've also seen sort of these weird interactions between
people that I, I'm like, we're all on the same team.
Like you're a real doctor and you're a real doctor and I'm a
real doctor. And why are we getting I, I see
a little bit of weird cattiness and competitiveness.
And I know my personal experience with that.
So I want you to talk about yours.
It's frustrating because you're like we already have enough
misinformation and the non expert grifters to kind of
contend with. It is really frustrating when
people start kind of like dividing and trying to conquer
each other. And it's because at the end of
the day, yes, we are in medicine and this is a pursuit of trying
to help people with medical problems.
And there is this idea that doctors are above it all and we
all are in it for noble reasons. I think a lot of us are.
Or maybe that's how we started out.
But there are people that are using this for gain, right?
Like I want to promote my practice.
I want more patients. And they kind of look at it
through a competitive lens. I had AI, had someone who's not
my patient, but like a friend of a friend who went to go see
another REI in the New York City area.
Obviously not going to name names, that's not my style, but.
We will on camera and I'll spill the tea later.
Don't. Worry about it.
But basically this person, you know, said, Oh yeah, I've I was
thinking about going to see Doctor C Con, but she had a bit
of a wait list and that doctor said, Oh, well, she's famous and
you can't be out there on media and doing XYZ and be a good
doctor. And first of all, I was like,
I'm not famous. I'm known.
There's a difference. And I don't think that that's
true. I would actually argue and, and
this is a low blow that I'm sure you get as well, right, Of
course. And it's just purely out of
jealousy and it's just kind of a mirror being put up to their
face of like, I'm sorry if you can't multitask.
I'm sorry if you think that it looks like I can't possibly be
good at content creation and doing media and patient care,
but that's more on you and your inability to multitask.
That's not me. Like, I'm sorry, I can make a
Instagram video like that. I'm sure you can as well.
We've just become very efficient at it.
But to use that as a way to tell another patient or someone who's
considering being my patient, she's less dedicated because
she's doing this. I would actually argue the
opposite. I would say the fact that I take
time out of my schedule to create educational content that
goes beyond the four walls of my clinic.
And also, I have to come correct, you know, I'm putting
myself out there, which is a lot more than.
Publishing books. Exactly.
So you're putting heft behind the the statements that you're
making, of course, which means they're naturally going to be
better researched. It's not just a one-on-one
conversation I'm having with patient.
This is me really putting it out there and being open to all the
scrutiny. And that should make someone
feel even more comforted that their doctor is at the cutting
edge of what's going on. I always say when I get that
commentary. I am so sorry that you're
projecting your limited bandwidth.
Absolutely. I get that you can, yeah, But I
can all day long, Yeah. And I have no problem saying
that. And, and it's funny because I
know and we were talking offline about this too.
I will say if I get 100 patients through the door, new patients
or 100 referrals or people who want to make an appointment, 99
of them are excited to come in and, and have, you know, meet
the doctor and have a conversation.
And there might be one that says I don't know if I want to come
in because she's too public or she's on social media.
So that's fine because no doctor books 100% of their consults.
Are they usually referred by another doctor in that case for?
Me, it's a good mix. I would say self referred word
of mouth from other doctors I would say obviously self
referred. They chose me so but I would say
maybe from another doctor sometimes they'll call that
population of referrals and the 99% of them they trust the
Doctor Who referred them. They go oh the so and so said
she's wonderful and she has experience great every once in a
while, maybe a few times a year we'll get the patient that says
well, she's on Instagram or she's so she's social, you know,
I don't know they'll. Say that to your team.
They'll say this to the team when they book and the team, you
know, they just go. We want you to really love our
doctor and love the practice and love the expectance.
And if you. Right it there's got to be a
mutual sense of trust and respect and if that's not there,
then we'd love to give you a recommendation of other doctors
that you can go see. We're booked and busy.
We have the wait list. We're not worried about it, but
it's interesting to me because the patients who do make it in
the door, they are on so team division, it's like they will
come in and they, they almost love you even more because they,
they understand that who I am at work when I am a physician, that
is a patient doctor relationship.
I say this all the time in the comments when people are like,
ah, yeah, doctor babe, your comment on or your DM.
I am not your doctor. This is not a patient doctor
relationship. Right.
Why do people get mad when you don't respond?
Or they'll just say like, oh, you should be saying doctorly
things or you should be more like a doctor.
This is social media right now. This interaction that I have
with you in my DMS or in my comments, I'm not your
physician. Yeah.
So I don't owe you a patient doctor relationship.
Yeah, I think we should talk about tone policing.
Yeah. Because I find that one thing
that I have grown very frustrated with.
Yeah. Is this idea that we have to
look a certain way or talk a certain way because we are
physicians. Yeah.
And I'm a whole person. Yeah.
I'm a mom. I'm a friend, I'm a sister.
I'm a person that's actively responding to everything that's
happening around them. I'm allowed to have personal
opinions and I think the argument that you always get,
and I'm sure you get this as well, the counter argument is,
well, you don't want to alienate patients that might feel
differently, like politically or but a lot of the things that I'm
talking about come down to just human decency.
Like there isn't really like room for, you know, the Gray
area. It's like black and white to me.
And I think, I don't know, I'm just.
Patients can choose their doctors too, right?
We are not providers that or in the emergency room or right,
that's not what you and I do. It's never our patients, though.
Let's be honest. It's someone that's like, I'm
just going to use this as a way to shut you up.
Of course, I'm like, you don't need to come to my clinic.
You're not going to be in the waiting room of my practice and
that is your prerogative and that's OK.
But the people who do they love it because they'll, you know,
I'll come in the morning to pre OP.
Oh, hey, let's go over your surgery.
Let's go through the consent. And they're like, Oh, I saw your
story and I they're so invested in the personality that you show
and they, they love that because it's a sense of getting to
another physician, But they'll also, so they'll also say, if
people only knew when you're here, you're so focused, you're
so dedicated, you know, thank you for the surgery that you did
or thank you for the care. And it almost, it just amplifies
the beauty of that patient doctor relationship because they
know so much more about you and they know all these other things
that you do and they know that you're a dynamic and
multidimensional. But when you are their
physician, you are wholeheartedly their physician.
And I, I mean, I'm like the queen of snark, but I just, when
I get that, and it's usually, it's more commonly from men than
women that they question the bandwidth.
Like you golf on Thursdays and Fridays.
I make content, run a real estate portfolio and run a skin
care line. You do you.
I'm a do me, but don't get mad that I'm doing more and doing it
better. But even when it comes to non
physicians judging physicians for being online, I I feel like
the difference is accountability.
We are held to such a high standard and I'm not saying it
shouldn't be that way, but where are the standards for the people
that have no credentials that are trying to give medical
advice? That's a problem.
There is no accountability, correct?
They have no medical board to report.
To no licensure, no, Yeah. So like when you're taking
advice from those people, you have to realize they have
nothing to lose. I have everything to lose, you
know, like it's actually quite risky for me to put my my
commentary out there. Like, you know, we so.
It's well thought out. Exactly.
It has to be well thought out, but I've had people believe it
or not because you were talking about the takedown situation.
And listen, I don't do it all the time because I actually find
the drama of it exhausting because there's always like a
fallout, right? And it's like, sometimes it's
just not worth it. But I have sometimes in a very
pointed way been like here, I'm going to stitch a video.
That's always what gets me in trouble, right?
You stitch a video and because you're using someone else's
image or whatever, and I think people don't understand how
social media works. I'm like the minute you put
something online like I'm allowed to stitch it 100% like
protected by copyright. It's literally a feature on the
app. Right now, stitch.
You can remix. You can sequence.
These are all features that are readily available, and if you
don't want people to stitch your content, you can turn that off.
And if you choose not to, it's open for them.
Exactly. And so there was this one person
who's not an expert putting out egregious misinformation and
very. Like name them, name it, name it
I want to hear. It I'm not going to name them.
Yes, you are. But I'll tell you, I'll give you
all the clues. I'll give you all the clues.
This is someone who's been around for a long time,
practices acupuncture, Chinese medicine, but doesn't know how
to stay in her lane and is coming up with programs and
basically like lies and putting fake testimonials.
Being like this is a 47 year old patient.
She did my program for this many weeks after failing IVF and I
got her pregnant. Charges thousands upon thousands
of dollars. OK, it became too much.
I'm going to dig this up. I mean, it's on my, it's on my
grid. I didn't delete it.
I was like, it's out there.
So you just have to scroll through the due diligence.
This power from two years ago so you guys can all do the due
diligence. Anyway, she sent a cease and
desist letter, not to me to my to my technical boss, like the
person that overseas our practice and they know me very
well. And he was like joint do I need
to worry about this? And I was like no, this is so
dumb. But I wasn't worried that I was
going to get sued because if we ever went to court, which would
be ridiculous in the first place, everything she was saying
so was so objectively wrong and egregious, egregious and
grifting, drifting and taking advantage of a vulnerable
population that I was like, OK, let's go.
But it created a lot of drama. And like her followers were
trying to come after me. It didn't stress me out, but it
also like, I have a busy day job.
That's the thing. I was going to ask you, like, do
you ever get stressed, frustrated?
Like what is your personal emotional well-being when you
get caught up in these these moments?
So temporally relevant because I just had this, you know, these
series of videos. I never heard about it.
Right with K dad, that is literally what I will refer to
her As for the near future. And so it's similar.
I mean, she's just ranting and I'm going to sue her for this
and I'm going to sue her for that and just saying terms that
she has no idea. And anyone who can read, you can
go online and say like, what is defamation or who would you send
a cease and desist to? You can't you can say whatever
you want. You can sue anybody, but at the
end of the day, you have to then pay for the lawyer who's going
to follow through with this. And if you have no case, that
was a waste of your time and your money.
And you sound foolish, but it comes back to accountability,
right? Because they have no
accountability, yet they try to attack the people who are in
charge of our accountability, our practice bosses or our, you
know, the board or what they're. Trying to shut you off of.
Course and there's that well known OB nurse that I that I
love to follow and people try to take away her license.
You can send as many complaints as you want to the medical board
or to the nursing board. What you can do all of that.
They're going to vet it and it's not going to go anywhere.
It's frivolous. It's it's such a waste of time.
So they're busy wasting the time now.
Do I get frustrated created? I don't really.
I will say I get very I'm quick to draw a line so I don't I
won't read all the comments because I don't have time.
Yeah, and it's. Toxic sometimes.
It's just not working and I don't even with all the stuff
with K dad, I didn't, I frankly didn't watch most of the videos.
I my husband, who's a great Instagram husband takes the
clips and he's like, this is what you need to watch.
This is what you need to know. So I think I do a good job of
drawing the line in the sand because when I am at work, I am
at work. So if I'm operating, I'm
operating, I'm scrubbed in. If I'm in clinic, I'm in clinic,
right? So I don't allow any of that to
sort of seep in. But I do think it is time
consuming, right? We signed up to do this thing
that can, that takes up our time.
And although I think overwhelmingly it's rewarding,
these are the parts of it that can be a bit of a sinkhole.
For time, it's draining. I think it's emotionally
draining even if you don't feel stressed by the attacks, it's
taking up space. It just takes.
Up. Yeah, it takes up some part of
your bandwidth, and I've gotten better at limiting what that is
as time goes on. But I have found I just leaned
into it more now. Yeah.
You know, I'm like, oh, OK, sue me.
Yeah. Oh, OK.
Well, it's. Also ridiculous.
I'll give you another example, and again, not going to name
names, but maybe the next time I come on I'll have more more
cojones to do that. But this was actually more
recent. This is another fertility Dr.
and I'm talking about an experimental kind of invasive
thing that is has overreaching claims.
This person has made this their particular niche, OK.
Of course they have. Yeah.
And I'm just like, it's egregious.
And I actually this was a provoked attack because this
person randomly decided to make a random video insulting me, my
character, my intelligence on the most random thing ever like
a get pregnant quick remedy that I debunked from like the 80s.
OK, so I was like, why am I being attacked about this?
I sat there, I bided my time. I was like, I will get to this
when I get to this. I was busy writing a book a year
later. There's a couple of randomized
control trials that come out on this experimental.
Therapy. That this person's talking and
I'm like, revenge is a dish that's sort of cold.
So I come up with this thing because people sent me a podcast
clip that this doctor was on and it was the most the most
egregious statement where they were caught saying something
ridiculous like I would do this on a woman of any age and it
would help her. And I was like what?
So that's when I was like, OK, here's my moment.
So I did stitch it and I, I created this like it wasn't a
takedown necessarily. It was very separate.
It was like, here's the stitch. Here's like what I have to say
about the randomized control trials.
That person went nuts, contacted every single mutual that we
have. And it's a small world, It's a
small community area is not that big of a field when it comes to
how many experts there are, especially in the New York area.
And like, threatened to sue me, blah, blah, blah.
And I'm like, if you're a business model is dependent on
people not talking about the evidence or debating the merits
of like what this treatment is, this is not going to work like.
I mean, I'm about to drop some merch.
That's If it's not defamation, it's true.
Yeah, friends, it is not defamation.
Yeah, if it's true. I mean, it's funny.
I had maybe not to that extent, but there was a colleague in Los
Angeles and this person does a lot of implant reconstruction
and put out a video about how implants with radiation aren't
that affected. Like radiation's not that big of
a deal. Implants do fine which?
We have overwhelming amounts of data about this.
Implants do not do fine with radiation.
They may go on to be tolerable. They I think are still an option
you should discuss go over the risks and benefits.
I still do implants if a patient wants it, even if they're going
to get radiated. I just like to give them the
real risks and benefits. This is the data and I have a
skill set to also do microsurgery.
Was this person like a 1 trick pony that only does implants?
Yeah, they don't do microsurgery and so they don't do
microsurgery. And it's, and it's funny because
I'll, but here's the thing, right?
And you know, this too, people in the city are going to go see
multiple doctors, right? And there will be patients of
mine that go see this person and there will be patients of this
person that will come see me. And that's fine.
Like that's just the way that it is.
I just like to present my data. This is what, and it's not my
data. It's the data, It's what's out
there. And I go, look, I can do a
radiated implant, but I'm not going to lie to you until you,
oh, you'll be fine. Do my little hocus pocus, buy my
$3000 peptide, blah, blah, blah. And if you do this and you buy
this thing through the practice, then then we have 0% a capsular
contractor with radiated implants.
And it's like, on what planet? What are you talking about?
And I just did flaps on one of this person's patients who had
severe capsular contractor from a radiated implant.
And this patient is like, she's like, I, she didn't tell me this
and I didn't know. And this person has since
blocked me because when she posted that video, I was like,
wait a second, you know this isn't true.
She's like, why are you being like this?
Did you? Publicly call her out to be like
we have a mutual patient. No, I did not do that.
I did not do that because I think I know the reality.
And I think I think one of the benefits of having social media,
even though there is a lot of grift and there's a lot of
misinformation, is there are good people fighting the good
fight. And I think, and this is kind of
going back to what I was talking to you before, like I hate the
infighting because in general, I think this person does good
work. I think in general they're very
valid at what they do. But this very specific
misinformation that they keep plugging, which in my mind I'm
like, you're just trying to feedback your practice because
you are not a Microsoft. Yeah, if you and then they'll
say, oh, flaps, 14 hour surgeries, ICU, I'm like, babe,
I'm home by 1:00 PM Yeah, there is not a day that I'm not home
when my kids get home from school.
Right. This is not 1980.
Yeah, what you learned when you trained is not how we do micro.
Surgery. Well, the narrative is serving
its purpose. Exactly, exactly.
And that I think is, is hard, but it's, it's this infighting
of, you know, I think we should be held accountable for what we
say. Absolutely.
And I will be the first person. I was the one who commented on
my post and I said I think this is misinformation.
We have better data, I expect better of you.
I would really love did they? Direct you to address it like
how did they? I don't remember anymore, I
can't remember if it was like in the at some point I got blocked
and and you know what, I have enough followers that will help
dissipate the message to the right patient, right.
So if I'm putting out information on radiation, which
is going to affect anything, by the way, even your flaps will
get affected. So radiation is radiation is
radiation. But I hope that one of the
benefits of having a larger platform is when I do share this
information, it does reach a wider audience and then that
leaves it to the patient to make an educated decision.
But it's, it's just my story. You know, you reminded me of it
when people twist data and they twist facts and then they get
personally offended when you when you come correct.
I would say I share a similar style to you in that I stay in
my own lane and just focus on like, what is information I can
be putting out? Yeah.
Every once in a while something is so egregious that I'm like, I
wake up and I choose violence. Yeah, it's very sporadic.
You never know what you're going to.
Get. But I don't know.
Because it is really it's frustrating when you are trying
to, I'll be honest and I say I have admit this openly.
There have been posted I've taken down that I'm like, oh,
this didn't land the way that I needed it to.
It's not the message and I will follow up with an apology or an
explanation. Sometimes I'll post a follow up
video going OK I didn't you know I had posted something about GLP
ones recently and I just, it was just like I'm so tired of like
the micro dosing thing is such a scam now.
No, I don't think every single person micro dosing GLP ones is
a scam. And I and the reason I actually
archived the post was because there were multiple people
sharing links on how to get the medication from not safe sources
and they kept posting it. I couldn't.
Delete the comments. I hate when people use my
comment section as like a marketing tool.
I'm like get out of here. Exactly.
And so that's actually why I archived it.
But I came up with a file. I posted a follow up video
realizing hey my like 3 second little thing was unintentionally
rage rady. I didn't mean to do it but it's
because as a physician when I'm in clinic multiple women a week
are getting their medications and not seeing a real doctor.
And I even had a patient who was on I want to say Keytruda.
Whatever it was they ended up in the hospital for over a month
with severe pancreatitis. Didn't know the risks, was
getting the medication from some online.
Didn't even know if it was a doctor.
You know, I care about the breast cancer population and so.
I don't think that that's a wrong message, I think it's just
that people watch like the first 3 seconds and then get the
wrong. Well, they don't read the
caption. So when you went to the caption
and there were doctors in the Instagram community that were
like, hey now, I'm an endocrinologist.
And so I was able to then redo the message and say micro dosing
is a word for nuanced dosing. If you're getting a nuanced dose
of a medication, shouldn't you be seeing a specialist, quite
literally an endocrinologist? I mean, we have a specialty.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. For this.
Yeah. And, And that was my point and I
was able to better deliver it. So I I think part of what I get
frustrated with is if I can admit when I'm wrong and take
down and sometimes. With all of our credentials and
backing, I mean, how do people have so much pride when they
have none of the I? Know exactly it's so.
Crazy it is it is I something that's interesting that I've
been finding now that I have this book out is there are other
people that are like trying to always poke holes and and use it
as an opportunity to market themselves.
And it's like the funniest thing that I've seen popping up that
I'm like, really like be so for real is using my name as an
insult. Like being like, fertility isn't
just about luck. And I'm like.
No shit, Sherlock. Right, exactly.
Like basically flipping the narrative to make it seem like
this whole book, all 400 pages of expertise and information
that has been carefully distilled into something
digestible is just a big message saying there's nothing you can
do. It's all just like a crapshoot.
And it's like, if that's the worst thing you can say about
me, then I'm. I think I'm on the right track.
Actually it is. It is.
And it's also disingenuous, like I think any person in this field
who can't admit like, yes, we're the doctors, yes, we are
providing treatments that are helping people get pregnant.
But I do think sometimes you see a bit of a God complex.
And we see this in all areas of medicine, but definitely in
fertility medicine. Like when a patient says
something like you gave me my, it's like, no, I I didn't really
do that. I helped facilitate it, you
know, but there are many people that like run with that
messaging. They.
Get caught up in that. They get caught up in that.
And I think there's this idea of like, I'm the doctor, you know,
there's no room for it being someone else's feet.
Like it was, it's me and I'm telling you the right way to eat
and the right way to do things. And therefore you can control
your fertility. And it's like it really, really
gets on my nerves because it's just so.
So I had to, it's an inside thought that I needed to get off
my chest. I love that we love inside
thoughts out loud, but I actually have a list of rapid
fire questions I want to ask you and I I will say so I I have 3
kids and I personally did not have an infertility journey, but
I have watched so many of my friends go through it.
And I think what the coolest thing about your book is, it's
literally if lucky was your best friend, if she was your best
friend and she's like, look, I'm gonna just give you the data.
I'm gonna give you the stats. I'm going to present it to you
so you can understand what I'm trying to say.
I'm going to break down the data on the doctor words and make a
digestible. That's what this book is.
If you want Lucky to be your best friend, if you want your
BFF to be a world renowned infertility specialist, the
Lucky egg. Thank you.
So these are my rapid fire questions.
Okay, just a second. I'm excited.
I did not. OK.
So I have not told Doctor Lucky any of these questions in
advance because I really want just what you think.
So I have some rapid fire questions for you that I think
really elucidate or physicians are willing to draw draw the
line between I am facilitating, I am your doctor, I am using
science and medicine versus I'm playing God.
OK, All right. First question, do you think
it's ethical to use IVF for gender selection if otherwise a
couple were able to conceive and carry the child?
So this comes up, this comes up in my clinic.
So it's rapid fire question, but it's not going to be a rapid.
Answer. That's OK.
Because it needs contacts.
So my job is not to judge when people come to me and ask, ask
me for advice or come to me with a problem.
This is called sex selection or family balancing.
And I think it's a case by case basis.
There are clinics in this country that just say straight
out, no, I'm not going to help you with this.
There are nuances like I have had couples where the male
partner was much, much older and they're like, we've read the
data. We know it's not a surefire
risk, but I'm, I'm worried about the risk of autism.
Maybe they have someone in their family that's grappling with a
severe case. And so, you know, there are
lower rates of autism in, in females, right?
So like that was a case where it was like, have you?
Ever said no? No, but I feel like I haven't
really been presented with something that was really like
egregious or unethical. What if they just said I have
three boys and I have one more pregnancy left in me.
I want a girl. I mean, that's come up.
That's come up. It's, I'm going to be honest
with you. I have patients who do IVF
because they have infertility. They have a bunch of embryos.
Some are male, some are female. Some people don't want to know.
Some people are like I want to know do you mind if I choose?
I personally wish we didn't get that information because I think
when it comes into the conversation like I'm never
going to tell a patient it's OK to choose.
If it's like a day 7 embryo that's slower growing that has
like a 20 something percent chance of working, a higher risk
of miscarriage versus a day 5 embryo with a good grade, it's
my job as the doctor to say I advise against that.
If they're equal grading and someone has a strong opinion, I
don't mind. You don't mind?
OK. Next question, At what point do
you draw the line in genetically designing an embryo versus
preventing diseases? So here's the thing, it's not
even proven to be possible. Like there's all these pop up
startups, you know, a lot on the West Coast where they're like,
we can screen your embryos for IQ, we can screen your embryos
for their future risk of type 2 diabetes or Alzheimer's.
And I've talked to pH DS who are experts in molecular biology and
they're like, first of all, these embryos are coming from
the same parents. So the risk difference between
embryos is going to be negligible.
And there's no way to validate this until you actually do
studies where you follow what happens to people like 20 years
40. Years.
How far out do you think we are? I don't know that it's possible
anytime soon, anytime soon. Here's the thing, you're working
with such a small amount of DNA. So to do what they're suggesting
is possible and already selling to people, which I think is very
unethical and I would dissuade anyone from actually trying to
use this because you might be eliminating or or de
prioritizing embryos that. Are healthy that would a. 100%,
I think it's really a grift right now.
That's where we're at. It's a grift.
It's crazy to me what people will do to make a dollar
vulnerable. Exactly.
OK, have patients ever asked you about embryo selection based on
non medical traits like blue eyes or brown eyes or whatnot?
It's come up occasionally, but we don't do it.
OK, we don't do it. OK.
Oh, I'm curious what you think about this one.
Do you think that some practices or certain physicians play into
the fact that this is also a business and provide false hope
in doing? Like when do you, I'm sure there
are certain medical cases where you could have to say this is
not going to work or this is unlikely to work or maybe we can
try once or twice. Are you seeing practices or
physicians who are looking at this as a way to make money even
when it's not going to work? I cannot speak to their
intentions, but I can tell you there are things that I see when
I get a second opinion, third opinion, or even just online
where I'm like, why? Why are they doing that?
Something that's really important to me and why I chose
to work in within the framework, within the clinic with the
people that I work with is we have an ethics meeting every
week. If anything is questionable, we
bring it to the meeting. You're not allowed to just
independently make random decisions.
There are age cut offs, not above which we say we're not
going to treat this patient, but in order to have them go through
a cycle, there needs to be justification, adequate
counseling that needs to be documented.
And we all need to vote as a group to say, OK, we're OK with.
There's so many interesting cases.
Accountability. Look at that guys.
Here we are accountability. There are definitely like it can
be the Wild West where, you know, we we don't have a way of
regulating the conversations that happen in independent
clinics, one to one patient to doctor.
And there are people I always say to patients when I think
something is really not in their best interest and it's a really
hard conversation, I tell them, listen, there are clinics and
people that probably would be willing to put you through
treatment, but I don't think it's right for you and.
I say that a lot too. It takes a lot to say that I may
not be the right doctor for you in this because I personally
feel this is not not even the best but a good option.
For you. But if you really feel strongly,
let me give you some names for people who do what you're.
Looking See, I don't even do that if I think that it would be
an exercise in futility. And again, I called my book The
Lucky Egg. So I leave every little bit of
hope that that door open. But if something is so absolute
and I'm so sure about it, I treat that person like they're
my friend or my family member. And do I want them to be
grinding their gears and spending thousands of dollars on
something that has virtually no chance of working?
No. Right, right.
We were. We were talking briefly.
You mentioned age cut offs. We keep seeing the ability to
move the needle on at the age at which women can safely conceive
and carry a child to term. Where is that going to end?
Like, do you think they're how far are we going to be able to
push? It Yeah, Well, a lot of it's a
mixed bag. There is an ability to ovulate a
healthy egg. So everyone's got that story of
like their grandmother who had their mom at age 45, and I'm not
disputing that that's possible, right.
But a lot of what we see, especially like celebrities
getting pregnant in their 50s, either they had the resources
and the ability to freeze eggs way back when.
Nowadays, it's going to be hard to tell like how things are
happening because egg freezing has become so mainstream.
And I even froze my brios, you know, at 34.
And I ended up using one of them to have my second baby in my
late 30s. So it's become much more part of
the conversation and, and the norm.
But people use donor egg and guess what?
Your uterus doesn't really age. So I know that I can get anyone
pregnant at any age. The question question is, should
I Right. And, and part of that ethics
meeting that I'm talking about that we have is sometimes you
have older parents or prospective parents that are
like, I know that you can get me pregnant with donor egg and I'm
healthy. But we have to look at and
there's actually guidelines for the American Society of
Reproductive Medicine where it's like hard because you don't want
to overstep and tell someone whether they are able to do this
or not. It feels like a lot of
responsibility. But you do have to think the
combined age of the parents, their health, their surrounding
support system, can they raise a child to adulthood, which is
technically age 21? And if the answer is we don't
feel confident about that, then what are what are we doing?
What kind of situation are we setting up for this future
child? Yeah.
That's this is all wild. Isn't it?
Yeah, it's. All wild.
OK, Is there anything about fertility science that worries
you? Like, are we on the brink of
something where you wish? Let's not go there.
I think what worries me is how behind the 8 ball we are as a
society, like we are the first generation that it's a good
thing. I'm not saying like a it's a bad
thing. Equal footing in terms of with
men with in terms of education opportunities, being able to
reach the pinnacle of our careers and pursue dreams beyond
family building. But no one gave us a guidebook.
No one gave us any sort of guidance.
You were just kind of left to the devices of like, hopefully
you find a good OBGYN or hopefully your friend group kind
of gives you a warning or someone in your family tells you
about how this all works. I have conversations with women
every day in their late 30s, their 40s and beyond where
they're like, I wish I knew, I wish I understood more because
people are just kind of going through life and thinking like
that part of life will figure itself out.
So what worries me is the the continued lack of education and
the lack of resources. France just sent a letter to all
of the 29 year olds in the country to say, Hey, you have a
biological clock. This was considered
controversial. I actually think it's kind of
cool because they also provide free egg freezing and storage of
those eggs from age 29, I believe till 37.
So not only they're not just giving you like a nagging
reminder, they're also saying, and here are there's a.
System in place. There's a system in place.
They actually help you. Right.
What we have is a current administration that keeps saying
we want more babies, we want more babies.
OK, They did find a way to discount the cost of some IVF
medications, which has helped some people, but that does not
nearly. It's a drop in the bucket
compared to the overall cost of IVF, particularly trying to
catch up when someone comes to us at a much later age.
And now they have to do multiple rounds because they have a lower
egg count and the egg quality issues are really hard to
overcome. And so, so we have a whole
generation of women that are dealing and struggling with that
now. And my hope is that Gen.
Z and I am seeing a change where people are coming in to just
have a fertility check up. And I'm always like, well, you
have to try to know if you're going to have problems, but at
least we're having a conversation and a moment or an
opportunity to do a pelvic ultrasound.
Like why isn't that part of routine GYN care at least once
in your? 20s or 30s or you're 30 or
you're going in like why is that not part?
Of the, I should not be the first person doing a pelvic
ultrasound on a woman in their late 30s or 40s because now
they're having infertility issues.
It's just wrong. I'm, I'm often the first one to
tell someone they have fibroids or they've endometriosis or a
septum in their uterus that they were born with.
Like if they had known about it, they could have gotten ahead of
it. So that's the thing that worries
me the most. I mean, second to that is like
all of the grift and the lack of regulation to really like, what
can I do? Who do I report to?
We can't report these people. That's the problem.
There's no accountability, right, Right.
You can tell people not to get vaccines and there can be
children admitted with measles encephalitis and you can't go
back and hold that. Person.
And what happens when you report a post?
Does anything happen? I feel like I'm screaming into
the void. Yeah.
You know, I've never been successful.
The only people I report is if it's like frankly vulgar or
racist or you know, where I know that they go against community
guidelines, right? The problem is it's this is a
market. They want the engagement.
They want I've. Never seen a post taken down.
No was mass reported by me, my followers, like so many people.
No, they don't. The grift only helps the
platform and they're bottom line, Yeah, so they're not
incentivized. But that's why we have to be on
there. Yeah.
And we have to stop with the infighting so we can all be
united. As a force from people of like
other plastic surgeons or microsurgeons.
And here's the thing, I may disagree with them on singular
issues and, and I do from time to time, another microsurgeon
might post something and I Yeah, but I make a point not to put
them on blast, Yes, because I don't want that.
Because I, there's so much more that I agree with, right?
That I'm like, that person's fighting the good fight.
Yeah, I'm on their side. I don't need to attack them.
And I've seen it in this sort of OB.
Yeah. REI specifically.
REI it's like rife. Like and it I just find it so
intriguing because. You know what I hate hearing the
most unexplained infertility is a lazy diagnosis.
It's like, no, but sometimes you don't know.
And again, it comes back to the God complex.
Like, I'm not disputing that people miss things.
And I do think it's important to give people the education and
tools to be vigilant, to know what to ask.
Advocate for themselves. There's a lot of shortcomings.
Let's be honest. I'm not saying we're all, you
know, above it and and everyone's doing the most
perfect job that they could be doing.
But sometimes there just isn't. Yes, sometimes.
There isn't, and it's OK to say you don't know.
You know, like a huge blind spot is we do you do not have a test
for egg quality. So like, when you know that
fundamental fact, how can you say that it's a lazy diagnosis
because it might be something like egg quality, you know?
It's always the people who didn't do the training or didn't
do you know? Sometimes it's some of the
people that have done the training, but it's like I'm
going to use market. I'm going to use this as a.
Marketing tool to feed patients into the practice.
Yeah, I know. I was going to make your name
your three least favorite pages. Three least favorite pages.
Accounts. Oh.
For misinformation. Let me think.
I don't know that I have like names on hand.
I'm trying to think, do you have 3?
No, actually you're right. I wouldn't even be able to
answer my own question because. I feel like I hate them so much
that I don't even like, memorize their handle.
Yeah. I'll tell you, it's the ones I
hate. The there's certain there's some
plastic surgeons that I just appreciate their hustle.
They make funny videos, They're entertaining.
They're not trying to like educate the population about
about plastic surgery, but they're just sharing a funny
part of their life. I actually like those accounts.
Yeah, me too, but. There's some that, like, hop on
this, you know, sunscreen is bad for you.
Oh, yeah. And then, like, you should get
your license revoked. Yeah.
Like, you should literally not be able to practice medicine
because you're lying to people. Or the accounts where they say
mammograms are unsafe. Oh God.
Yeah, well, that's a no brainer. That's a no brainer to us, but
how are they getting away with this?
Well. Yeah, that just makes me angry.
And like, how do you sleep at night that you are?
You are definitely misleading some.
Not you, but those people are definitely misleading at least
one person. There's got to be some people
that didn't get their mammogram. Because of this.
So bad for me it's the BS claims in the the not the caption the
profile like where it's like in the bio the bio that's.
Totally tell 96%. Pregnancy rate.
I'm like how? But like by who's having
supplements? Who's doing your math?
No, I don't understand. And and it still says 96% like
seven months later. I'm like, I don't understand.
Do you not understand how math works?
Like regression to the mean, You know, like this, but.
Also, if it's like if they don't tell you what their credentials
are, like my page says MDFACS, Yeah, those are.
That's an objective set of data that you can use to tell that I
have credentials when they don't have credentials but their
handle is like pregnancy doc or. God, you're a.
Chiropractor, like, why are you talking?
You know, like it's like a very, and I think that's why some of
us get so frustrated with the loose term.
Of doctor, right, but also the anecdotes, right, Like there was
someone who is an acupuncturist and she's like, I'm listing all
the difficult cases and then I did the acupuncture and boom,
they got pregnant. And I'm like, what about the
negatives? Like, and the person that
actually pointed me to this was one of the negatives.
And I was like, yeah, you didn't make it to the list.
Like, no surprise, you know. And they'll DM me.
So many people will DM me. Oh, this person, you know, I, I
believe them. I bought the supplement.
I paid for the consult and this is what came of it.
And it's, and it didn't work for me or, you know, I got severely
I'll off of this medication that somebody sold me or I paid for
the $3500 peptide injection. This doctor, you know, and I and
I always say it's, it's hard and I get that it's a bit, there's
some catharsis to then reach out to a doctor and say I had this
bad experience, but I can't Share your story on, you know,
about some. It's just to me.
I do share screenshots sometimes.
I mean, so do I for sure. Where people will be like, Oh my
God, or I might do a call out of some account that's like very
grifty and then people will DM me and it's so scary to like
peel back the layers on this. They'll say she actually sent me
these messages and said like, she'll charge me 1500 for three
sessions. I'm like to do what?
She's a fertility coach. Like, what is she doing cheering
on the sidelines? Will you and your husband have
sex in the fertile window? Like I don't understand.
What is it that they're doing? But I definitely I've like taken
screenshots or shared, but I also, I can't tell somebody else
a story for them in that way, right.
It's it's a very difficult arena that we function in, Yeah.
And it's. It's, it's wild.
It's. Like the wild wild.
It really is. And sometimes it's like scary to
be out there, but there's no other choice for me.
Yeah. And I really try to embolden
than other fertility doctors that I know are good doctors.
I'm like, just get out there. I like try to like do lives of
them and like get them on because we need more of us.
And not everyone has to be salacious and call people out.
But like, I think anything you can do in your little corner of
the Internet to combat the negative, you know, it's.
Helpful. Even I get angry messages
sometimes. Like I followed you for the
breast cancer information and now you're posting about makeup.
I'm sorry, I'm multidimensional. I try to do a you know, there's
some medical content, there's some Women's Health content,
there's some beauty content, there's some cultural comments.
Do you also? Have a separate account.
I so that's why it's so crazy. Like it's so funny because.
I don't even have a separate account.
I'm like, it's my birthday. OK, let's talk about egg
quality. Well, that's the thing, people
get so mad and I go, I have all of the like, if you want the
skin care, that's a page. If you want just my practice,
yeah, I have hundreds of I don't know what.
More you could be doing like I have it all on one page because
I'm like, it's too much for me. But you know what I don't have?
I don't have links to supplements in my bio.
Promising that you're going to not have radiation induced
changes with your. But I don't You can't make
everyone happy, and that's a quick lesson you have to learn
if you're going to be in this space.
And you have to just, you're constantly minded of it.
How do you have a thick skin? That's what I want to know from
you because I think I'm like very stereotypical Pisces.
Not that I believe in astrology, but I am very sensitive.
I'm also typical Libra, so there's something to it I.
Think. There you go.
How do I think I was raised very much to I I have a lot of
siblings and so we were all each other's best friends.
We were all very, we joke around each other with each other a
lot. We also hold each other
accountable. And I was raised very much to
define my own self worth and I I really discredit my parents for
that. I didn't even realize it was
this sort of hidden power that I had.
And I hear about it so much more now and like my mid to late
adulthood where people tell me, you know, Oh my gosh, you're,
you're so confident here. You have thick skin.
And I just think since I was a little girl, there were people
whose opinions I care about and everybody else I didn't care
about. And I've just always been like
that. I think our field attracts a
certain level of meekness. Yeah, because it's almost like
that's what allows you to get to this position.
You were able to just stay quiet when you were berated by an
attending, like you didn't snap back.
And I do think it took me a while to find my voice.
I think I was meek as well because I learned that that's
how you get by in medical. You have to get through it,
right? You have to.
It was a different version of myself, yes.
And I got through it. And then, yeah, you know, I got
my. Were you?
Outspoken in training. I was, and I'm sure I you know,
I got in trouble for it from time to time because I.
I was a good. Girl, I was not I was, I was a
great surgeon, but I was always like, why do we do it this way
or this doesn't make sense or why are these the rules or is
this humane or is this how we should treat people?
Sure, and that's a difficult situation to be in, but I good
for you. It was quiet when I when I had
to be to get through it and I'm not quiet now.
No, I feel like we. Have inside thoughts out loud.
I love it, I love it. Thank you for having me on.
Of course. So Doctor Lucky C Khan, thank
you so much for joining us, and we loved hearing your inside
thoughts out loud.