1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,400 Has there been a campaign that you turned down despite a lot of 2 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:06,120 money it? Was $80,000. 3 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:08,480 This is the third time I've like turned down their sponsorship. 4 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:12,960 People have been so inundated with influencer marketing that 5 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:15,280 they can tell when they're being sold to, and they don't want 6 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:17,360 that you're. Paying someone that much for a 7 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:19,280 scripted video? People are actually like 8 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:22,520 following this because we're not actors, exactly because they 9 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:26,040 want the unfiltered honesty. What is a category in makeup or 10 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:27,880 skin care that you think really should be luxury? 11 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:31,600 If you don't have the budget, just don't launch complexion 12 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:33,360 first. There's so many other skews that 13 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:35,520 you could start with that don't need 50 Shades. 14 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:39,760 People know me for my authenticity being non filtered 15 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:42,920 and especially like not lying like I don't care what anyone 16 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:44,640 else thinks. Like, I'm not going to go on set 17 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:47,200 and lie about that. Especially with the offers, I 18 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:49,800 don't take all of them but easily could make way more as an 19 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:52,680 influencer than I did as a double board certified 20 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:56,200 reconstructive microvascular surgeon working for a mega 21 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:58,240 hospital system as an academic surgeon. 22 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:01,200 Hey everyone, welcome back to Inside Thoughts Out Loud. 23 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:04,360 I am super excited to sit down and chat with Monica Ravi 24 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:06,840 Chandran today. Many of you know her from the 25 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:09,920 Internet as Monica Ravi. She has over 1,000,000 followers 26 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:13,320 on YouTube and over 600,000 followers on Instagram. 27 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:18,040 She has grown her platform to be a real representation of where 28 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:20,480 authenticity and consistency can get you. 29 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:24,320 She has spoken so much about beauty in a way that is 30 00:01:24,320 --> 00:01:27,200 relatable and actually lands with the consumer. 31 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:30,160 She's worked with some of the biggest brands in beauty and I 32 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:34,680 think it's a really interesting and specific opportunity to ask 33 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:37,440 someone who started in another field, she used to be an 34 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:41,360 engineer full time and who left that for the platforms that she 35 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:43,120 created. How did she get here? 36 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:44,520 Would she do anything differently? 37 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:46,080 What are the lessons that she's learned? 38 00:01:46,320 --> 00:01:49,520 And ask her some questions about where is the color inclusivity 39 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:52,640 conversation going? Should we really require brands 40 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:55,920 to have a fully color inclusive palette? 41 00:01:56,200 --> 00:02:01,000 If not, how do we as a consumer express to them where we're 42 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:03,360 disappointed? Is it fair to expect that of 43 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:05,080 them? I think it's also interesting to 44 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:09,360 ask someone like Monica, where do you feel comfortable landing 45 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:12,960 on what you owe the viewer? Do you think that as a consumer 46 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:15,240 or as a viewer where we deserve to know where you fall on 47 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:17,760 certain political topics? What about the current political 48 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:19,760 climate? Is that something that we should 49 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:22,080 be Privy to? I'm really excited to chat with 50 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:23,360 Monica about all of this and more. 51 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:25,680 So welcome to this week's episode of Inside Thoughts Out 52 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:27,800 Loud. Monica, thank you for coming on 53 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:30,760 Inside Thoughts Out Loud. I am so grateful for your time. 54 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:32,960 Thank you for having me, I'm so excited. 55 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:34,320 I have so many questions for you. 56 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:37,040 OK, So the first thing that I actually wanted to talk about is 57 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:39,000 it just popped up as a controversy on the Internet. 58 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:41,280 Obviously we've been talking about color inclusivity for a 59 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:44,000 while and that is a huge part of your platform. 60 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:48,480 So I saw that Gloria had had posted about Hourglass 61 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:51,320 cosmetics. And what really killed me is I 62 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:53,040 mean, like the woman comes with facts, right? 63 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:57,960 Like she has receipts for everything and she puts up a, an 64 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:01,280 ad for Hourglass where there is a Sudanese model front and 65 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,720 center, which is clearly advertising for a fully color 66 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:08,280 inclusive range, right? And her point was, girl, you and 67 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:11,360 I are the same skin tone. And I can tell you that there is 68 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:14,040 not a single product in this line that matches which is your 69 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:17,400 skin tone. And I have to ask, where do you 70 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:20,080 fall on? I mean, I know where you fall, 71 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:21,800 but I just want, I want everybody else to hear it. 72 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:26,440 When you are an influencer, a model, a creator, someone of 73 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:29,680 notoriety and a brand comes to you and they're like, hey, we 74 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:31,720 need you to represent our brand on your page. 75 00:03:31,920 --> 00:03:34,320 Where do you draw the line? Because I want to ask this model 76 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:37,360 like, I'm like, come forth like I want to ask you, why did you 77 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:39,120 agree to this? Did they use their products on 78 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:40,840 you? No, immediately, no. 79 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:44,320 And I know that for a fact because I've actually, OK, I 80 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:46,160 think the NDA is definitely no longer there. 81 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:50,880 But I actually did a couple like shoots for a large brand before 82 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:55,200 and I would get in arguments with the hair and makeup artist 83 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:57,960 because they were not using the product that was promoted that I 84 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:00,160 was like, so like, what's it called then? 85 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:03,880 I was like, not sold to promote, but like I was being the model 86 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,600 to promote. It was an ad for product A and 87 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:09,200 product A and was not used I. Didn't know that was a thing 88 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:12,360 until I got on set. And then the hair, the hair 89 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:15,080 stylist goes, yeah, we're going to use these five other things. 90 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:16,600 And I'm like, I'm not doing that. 91 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:20,279 And he called me a like a influencer brat or something 92 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:22,640 like that for like, like, no one cares. 93 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:25,960 Like you're just a model here. We just need your hair and face. 94 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:29,680 I'm like, well, if anyone like people know me for my 95 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:33,440 authenticity, like, you know, my being non filtered and 96 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:36,560 especially like not lying like I'm not going to go, I don't 97 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,120 care what anyone else thinks, like I'm not going to go on set 98 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:42,080 and lie about that. I also think it's it is hard 99 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:45,880 being a model because I do think that like like my most of my 100 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:47,880 income does come from like sponsorships. 101 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:50,280 I feel like income, YouTube Adsense, etcetera. 102 00:04:50,280 --> 00:04:53,120 So I have like the privilege. I definitely think of like 103 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:55,880 saying no to like those opportunities if it doesn't make 104 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:57,920 sense or doesn't align, but I do. 105 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:00,120 You you do think there's a difference between being a model 106 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:02,680 for a brand and being a content creator for a brand? 107 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:05,440 Yes. And I, I, so I wouldn't say 108 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:08,920 like, like, I, let me put it this way, I don't hold models to 109 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:14,040 the same level of, of integrity or whatever you want to call it. 110 00:05:14,280 --> 00:05:17,360 As someone like like who constantly speaks out against 111 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:19,400 these sort of things. I would have seen that and 112 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:21,520 thought, yeah, that doesn't make any sense at all. 113 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:25,200 But I also think like they were trying to be like inclusive, if 114 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,400 that makes sense, and like trying to bring that, bring the 115 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:31,360 like inclusivity there. But I think it is absolutely 116 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:34,760 wrong to not have the shades, if that makes sense. 117 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:36,440 It's almost like a. Double, I think you sort of just 118 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,160 changed my mind on it 'cause I was very annoyed with the model. 119 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:41,800 Like how would you, how could you agree to especially 'cause 120 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:44,240 it was, it's a well known model. It's someone who's doing very 121 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:46,800 well for themselves. She didn't need this. 122 00:05:47,280 --> 00:05:49,360 But I I agree with you. If a brand that could use the 123 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:51,720 inclusivity comes to you, I could see wanting to say yes. 124 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:53,760 Yeah, and you don't exactly know. 125 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:55,680 She definitely though does not have the products on the. 126 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:59,600 Face no for sure, yeah. Hourglass also makes primers and 127 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:01,440 whatnot. So I could also imagine I could 128 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:03,720 see how the model maybe didn't even know exactly which product 129 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:06,760 she was promoting because they have so many and some of them 130 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:09,600 are not necessarily complexion products, right. 131 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:11,920 So I could see that. So I think in real time you've 132 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:15,440 sort of changed my mind about it yes, I could see how the model 133 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:18,760 shouldn't be held responsible, but I I do think the brand 134 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:21,400 should be and if the brand is hiring a Sudanese model for the 135 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:24,800 purpose of advertising inclusivity, whose job is it? 136 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:27,800 Like who do you point the finger out within the company to say if 137 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:29,720 you guys are going to go that far, but you can't actually take 138 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:31,360 the meaningful step to make the products? 139 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:34,840 It comes to like top down is what I've learned. 140 00:06:34,840 --> 00:06:37,480 Especially like a lot of like these companies, they don't have 141 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:40,600 a diverse representation in their own company. 142 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:43,040 They don't have a lot of like women of color, black woman, 143 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:44,920 brown woman, Asian woman, everything like. 144 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:47,960 To hit the brakes that are high enough in the company to say, 145 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:50,680 yeah, excuse me, this is not how it's done. 146 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:53,120 And honestly, like Hourglass has always done that. 147 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:57,960 Like you look at their what blew my mind recently as I learned 148 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:01,880 that at Sephora, that palette that you know that $92.00, 149 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:04,640 what's it called? That palette is their number one 150 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:07,000 one of the number one sold pallets like an all the. 151 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:08,800 Highlighter palette is what you're talking about the Ambien? 152 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:10,560 The Ambien, like the one that launches every year? 153 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:13,200 Yeah, Yeah, I learned that. I was like, I was like, it blew 154 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:16,400 my mind because like I, I, I'm not even that deep. 155 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:17,680 We're probably around the same shade. 156 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:19,840 They don't have a shade for us. No, I know I bought it and I 157 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:21,800 don't use it. It's like got like a red, really 158 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:24,640 red bronzer and one of them comes out every year. 159 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:26,440 That's like for. Me, it's either a sketchy or 160 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:28,440 it's too red. Yeah, there's nothing in the 161 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:30,240 middle. And then it goes, if you're any 162 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:32,720 deeper than me, they have nothing past that, if that makes 163 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,080 sense. So I'm like, I, it, it breaks my 164 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:37,200 heart because I do know they have a lot of really nice 165 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:39,640 formulas and a lot of luxurious formulas. 166 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:43,400 And I used to love, love, love and like save my money up for 167 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:47,760 the, that primer. And back in the day, like a lot 168 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:51,040 of like Youtubers were talking about their foundation. 169 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:52,800 They had like a matte foundation or whatever. 170 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:56,000 And I remember like saving up my like lunch money and like high 171 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,640 school and like trying to like, I bought the darkest shade back 172 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:00,600 then. I was the darkest shade and it 173 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:02,480 was still like the undertone was off. 174 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:05,880 It looked really weird and buying like a $60.00 foundation 175 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:08,840 as someone in high school was honestly ridiculous. 176 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:11,840 But at the same time. Also, how disappointing to save 177 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:14,960 up and then realize that they didn't care enough for your 178 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:17,520 depth and shade. But here's you know my now that 179 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:20,160 I'm a brand founder and I work in skin care, so I don't have to 180 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:22,160 worry about shades. But I have learned a lot about 181 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:25,120 minimum purchase orders. And you know, for me when I make 182 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:28,640 a skin care product and it isn't shade dependent, then I can 183 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:31,600 order the minimum of whether it's 10,100 thousand, I can put 184 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:33,520 that order in. The problem is when you have to 185 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:36,039 have shades right is the minimum purchase order is. 186 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:38,640 Like 10,000. Shades, so you have to know that 187 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:41,480 you're going to sell it and you have to know that the demand 188 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:45,920 will be there and if you're a small brand, I can absolutely 189 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:48,160 understand how it would be difficult for both extremes 190 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:50,120 right? How you sort of focus on the 191 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:56,760 most common skin tones. So I myself kind of I'm like 192 00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:59,040 where, where do we start holding people accountable? 193 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:02,520 At what point do we say OK now hourglass, y'all have no excuse. 194 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:04,440 You guys are a mega mega mega brand. 195 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:07,840 You have the resources. This is just lazy, but how do 196 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:09,120 you feel about that? How? 197 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:10,960 Where do we get to start holding people accountable? 198 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,080 I think IA 100% agree with what you said. 199 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:16,960 I mean it is very expensive. Like as someone who's like, I've 200 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:19,520 done a lot of lab consulting now and they always talk about that, 201 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:21,880 right? So, and every time that I do now 202 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:24,840 lab consulting, I'm presenting them with the data that like 203 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:28,400 This is why we need the shade. I like have built scrapers to 204 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:31,480 kind of like scrape the Internet and my own comment sections to 205 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:33,560 sort of help them present the data. 206 00:09:33,560 --> 00:09:35,960 And now there's software tools to kind of help with that. 207 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:38,600 But they of course, like you need, they need the data to be 208 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:41,080 able to put the shades out first, first and foremost. 209 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:44,760 But I think the second part of it is that this might be like, I 210 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:46,640 also think like, how do I say this? 211 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:51,560 Like it's like beauty is like more than just like beauty 212 00:09:51,560 --> 00:09:53,400 itself. I think it's also like a feeling 213 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:54,920 the way it makes you feel, right? 214 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:57,440 It's like when Gloria mentioned in that video, like she walked 215 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:01,080 up to that Hourglass gondola and saw her someone with her skin 216 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:02,920 tone. Like if you if you don't know 217 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:05,560 better about Hourglass, like you would think that they would have 218 00:10:05,560 --> 00:10:07,640 shades for you, right? It's about feeling seen and 219 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:10,760 represented. So I think beyond the business 220 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:13,240 side of things, I personally would say like if you don't have 221 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:16,080 the budget, just don't launch complexion first. 222 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:18,520 There's so many other skews that you could start with that don't 223 00:10:18,560 --> 00:10:22,720 that don't need 50 Shades. Get the data from that who are 224 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:26,120 your customers like based on what you can do there and then 225 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:29,600 apply it to like complexion if that makes sense It makes. 226 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:31,120 Later. A lot down the line so. 227 00:10:31,560 --> 00:10:33,520 You're just saying don't do it until you can do it right. 228 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:35,480 Yeah. And I think a lot of most, like 229 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:38,160 women of colour say that, right? I mean, it's not cheap. 230 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:40,440 I very much know that. And it's different when it's 231 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:42,960 like how do you get the data if there's no data, right? 232 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:45,400 Like you kind of have to get the data 1st. 233 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:48,160 And I think the easiest way to do that is sort of launching 234 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:50,760 blushes, launching a lip, launching something unique in 235 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:52,960 those categories, if that makes sense. 236 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:56,040 And then sort of finding the customer base there and then 237 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:59,160 using that data and then launching like the foundations 238 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:01,760 based off that. Yeah, I mean, that makes 239 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:04,080 complete sense to me. Plus on top of that like the 240 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:06,440 like complexion is the hardest to get. 241 00:11:06,680 --> 00:11:11,720 I find it like scary when brands like do foundations like first, 242 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:14,240 if that makes sense. Like I think even kind of going 243 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:17,720 back to like the like foundation inclusivity conversation like 244 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:19,640 euphoria. I think it's like. 245 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:20,600 Oh my God. I. 246 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:23,600 Know it's like last year, like 2 years ago, tea or whatever. 247 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:28,320 No, but still. But she launched with blush 248 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:30,720 first, right? But then she got funding and 249 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:33,560 then launched 4 shades of foundation or like 8 shades or 250 00:11:33,560 --> 00:11:36,040 whatever. And and it was like 3 shades of 251 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:37,480 peanut butter. I'm not gonna lie when I 252 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:41,880 reviewed it. That was the one where like the 253 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:43,560 darkest shade was literally black. 254 00:11:43,560 --> 00:11:45,720 Paint yeah. What I didn't get about that is 255 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,960 that she got funding and but maybe like I'm, I'm assuming 256 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:50,600 Mark Cuban or whatever doesn't understand. 257 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:53,240 I'm, I'm not, I don't want to get cancelled for saying that, 258 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:56,960 but I don't know what his expertise is on color cosmetics, 259 00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:59,640 if that makes sense. But like I feel like she's been 260 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:02,480 in the industry to kind of know that like this backlash would 261 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:05,400 have happened because she's been working in beauty for a while. 262 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:08,480 So you know. How many times have we seen it 263 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:10,880 where you think like you should have known better? 264 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:13,720 How did you let this happen? Whether it was Blenciaga and 265 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:15,680 Debna's ads, whether it's youthful, You know, there's so 266 00:12:15,680 --> 00:12:17,280 many examples across industries of. 267 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:21,560 Works for you, right? I mean just. 268 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:25,400 Where are where are y'all like I don't understand is anybody in 269 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:28,280 the building because it's so outrageous. 270 00:12:28,560 --> 00:12:33,760 So then what you realize is that everything has become what's the 271 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:37,000 what's the right way like like money can't solve every problem, 272 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:38,880 right? At some point you have to have 273 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:41,040 real thought behind things, which means you have to have 274 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:43,360 intention. So if your intention is just 275 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:46,720 we're just going to make money and your intention is not, I 276 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:50,360 need to create an inclusive whatever it is that you're 277 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:52,120 doing, then people will find out. 278 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:54,360 Yeah. So if it's my intention is I'm 279 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:58,920 just going to have a viral line of Balenciaga because everyone's 280 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:01,040 talking about Balenciaga. OK, then sure. 281 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:03,080 You're going to just be focused on how to make it viral and 282 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:04,920 you're going to lose a part of how am I going to make a 283 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:09,120 meaningful ad campaign for my avant-garde fashion, right. 284 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:12,160 If you come out and you go, hey, I made this pH blush, whatever 285 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:15,560 color changing blush go viral. I just need to ride that wave 286 00:13:15,560 --> 00:13:18,200 and make money now that I have funding I need. 287 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:21,240 If that's where your head's at, then you're not going to 288 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:24,280 prioritize the actual shades, the quality of the product, 289 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:26,120 which means you got to have the right people in your corner. 290 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:28,600 So you can have the Mark Cubans and the money and the business 291 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:30,560 acumen. But then you got to have the 292 00:13:30,560 --> 00:13:33,960 people who understand the beauty market, the beauty industry, the 293 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:37,200 target demographic who understand what the lab is 294 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:39,040 supposed to do. And if you don't surround 295 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:41,480 yourself with those people, I mean, good luck because you're 296 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:43,360 going to find yourself in hot water inevitably. 297 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:44,960 Yeah, no, I definitely agree with that. 298 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:48,240 And I actually had the chance before she this whole debacle 299 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:50,960 happened really early on. I actually met the founder of 300 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:53,800 Euphoria in San Francisco because I was living in San 301 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:57,160 Francisco at the time and she told me she had a team of like 302 00:13:57,160 --> 00:13:59,440 3. She didn't have like a head PD 303 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,040 person, at least when I had originally met her, and it was 304 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:04,360 just her doing all the PD. She doesn't have like a makeup 305 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:07,800 artist's background or like I don't think she has, at least 306 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:12,040 for my like what I remember. Like has like that knowledge of 307 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:15,000 like the undertones and like the skin tone ranges of course. 308 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:16,920 So to your point, she should have just waited. 309 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:21,520 You know you had a do an eye shadow, do a liquid shadow. 310 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:24,920 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And and that's what was also 311 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:27,040 surprising. It's like you also look at even 312 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:29,680 a product market fit. It's like, is there the a market 313 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:31,200 for a foundation you could sleep in? 314 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:32,400 I don't know. That's what everyone is also 315 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:34,600 arguing. So overall, the launches were 316 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:36,960 always just getting more and more controversial. 317 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:40,440 So I, I alluded to this before. I know that you get many, many 318 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:42,640 offers from many different brands. 319 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:46,400 Has there been a campaign that you turned down despite a lot of 320 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:49,120 money, and why? And if you can tell us how much? 321 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:52,840 But you don't have to name the brand. 322 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:53,720 I won't make a name of the brand. 323 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:56,760 OK, it was actually, I mean, it broke my heart. 324 00:14:56,760 --> 00:15:00,240 It was pretty recently. It was $80,000. 325 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:02,440 OK, I would say this wasn't the last. 326 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:05,680 I'm only doing it based on recent recency bias. 327 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:10,640 But like this brand will not name names because it's 328 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:12,600 actually, this is the third time I've like turned down their 329 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,560 sponsorship. I actually love their brand and 330 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:19,040 I'm wearing it on my face right now because it's a great they 331 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:21,640 make great products, but that's a pretty affordable. 332 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:24,680 But I just think that they don't understand influencer marketing 333 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:27,360 in a way that's meaningful and authentic to the creator. 334 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,920 They wanted me to like stitch a particular creator who was going 335 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:34,520 super viral and it didn't make any sense with my content. 336 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:38,280 I even had a a great call with their head of marketing and was 337 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:41,240 like, hey, like this is not how I would approach this 338 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:43,440 sponsorship. Like this is going to make me 339 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:47,240 look funny and on top of that, like my audience and the person 340 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:49,520 you want me to stitch is audience, especially on YouTube, 341 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:50,680 dude. They don't intersect. 342 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,560 That's what like people need to understand when with the stitch 343 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:55,680 concept. Additionally, no one wants to 344 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:59,560 see 50 stitches of the same like like creator, if that makes 345 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:01,200 sense. Like it doesn't feel authentic 346 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:03,360 at that point. And then there was also like a 347 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:06,640 YouTube integration, but they wanted a whole YouTube video to 348 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:09,960 be about that product. And, and I think that's fine 349 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:11,800 with you. Like, let's say you launch a, a 350 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:15,000 range of like 20 lipsticks. I could do like there's a, 351 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:18,240 there's a need for 20 minutes of, of, of going through every 352 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:21,200 shade breakdown of the color. Like, do you see what I'm trying 353 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:24,360 to say there? But this was like for, for lack 354 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:26,920 of better words, it was a face wash, the one I'm supposed to 355 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,000 talk on. That's how I thought about it. 356 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:32,840 It was like, how am I going to sit here and gut on YouTube? 357 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:36,280 I can't talk about anything else on YouTube long format that and 358 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:38,880 talk about a face wash that makes that's meaningless full to 359 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:41,520 my audience. And we tried to re pitch it as 360 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:44,200 an integrated video because integrated sponsorships do 361 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:48,080 really well on YouTube when it's integrated with other things in 362 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:50,440 it. Such a point, right, because I'm 363 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:53,440 seeing more and more of this pop up just in in the marketing 364 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:57,760 pages that I follow that people are now have been so inundated 365 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:01,520 with influencer marketing that the the consumer and the viewer 366 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:04,079 now can tell they can tell when they're being sold to and they 367 00:17:04,079 --> 00:17:06,040 don't want that. So the more organic and 368 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:08,880 authentic you can make it, they are not immediately enough by 369 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:11,960 your content and they can tell. And it's funny because I really 370 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:13,640 don't do a lot of brand partnerships. 371 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:16,319 I, it's not primarily where I make my income. 372 00:17:16,319 --> 00:17:18,960 And I frankly don't care too unless I genuinely love the 373 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:21,400 brand. And my, the very first e-mail 374 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:23,400 I'll send back is we can talk about this, but you have to 375 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:25,839 understand that it's going to be a video that I make on my terms 376 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:28,200 that makes sense. Otherwise, my viewers 377 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:31,200 immediately we'll be like, why are you being a sellout? 378 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:33,520 Why are you like, we know this is not your usual content. 379 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:36,560 Not to mention it will actually do. 380 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:38,160 I'm telling you it will do better. 381 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:40,880 You think I don't know what sells when I link and don't 382 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:42,960 link, I can tell you what does well. 383 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:47,440 And it's if I'm using your lip liner, let me do it with a 384 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:49,400 different lip gloss or a different lipstick or a 385 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:51,960 different, you know, company's eyeshadow palette. 386 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:55,160 It will not take away from the sales of your lip liner. 387 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:57,240 And they just don't believe me. I I agree. 388 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:00,440 I, I, I, I this, I've been doing this for like 6 years, 389 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:02,320 especially in with beauty and makeup. 390 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:04,800 And you would think that it's gotten better. 391 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:07,240 I actually feel like it's, if anything, it's going back in 392 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:09,520 time a little bit. Like I've actually just say no 393 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,920 to more partnerships in the last few months than when I did 394 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:15,400 initially. And maybe it's because I've also 395 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:19,080 grown so much and I've grown such a authentic audience that 396 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:22,400 like maybe there are more brands who like want to be partake in 397 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:25,400 that or whatever. But I just as the other thing I 398 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:27,960 want to mention is I actually used to work in influencer 399 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:29,280 marketing. That was my last, last job. 400 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:34,160 I was a product manager at a Rakatan subsidiary company that 401 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:36,800 did affiliate marketing and I was on the campaign side, so I 402 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:38,680 was building like the campaign's dashboard, so. 403 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:42,120 You know this inside and out. And I will have to say like from 404 00:18:42,120 --> 00:18:45,400 a brand casting strategy and, and brand standpoint, like a lot 405 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,680 of these like beauty brands are working with the middleman, if 406 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:50,040 that makes sense. Like they're working like with 407 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:52,760 an agency. And while a lot of agencies are 408 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:55,760 great, I just think that they're working on so many different 409 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:58,000 brands that they fully maybe don't understand like. 410 00:18:58,000 --> 00:18:59,720 You're too nice. I think these agencies are 411 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:01,560 great. I have yet to interact with an 412 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:03,760 agency where I'm like, wow, you're really good at your job. 413 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:07,600 Some of them are OK like, but like a lot of them are like like 414 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:10,160 even recently like so there was an agency. 415 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:12,120 They're like we need the content tomorrow. 416 00:19:12,360 --> 00:19:14,680 And we were going back fighting back and forth on this. 417 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:18,120 Thankfully they had the creative was really open, which is why I 418 00:19:18,120 --> 00:19:20,880 took it and I really like this product and it was skin care. 419 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:24,040 Usually if anything that has an active, I tell them if I can't 420 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:26,800 trial it for a minimum amount of time to show the progress, I'm 421 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:29,320 not posting the video. So you will not see and actives 422 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:32,600 actives video meaning like vitamin C, benzoyl peroxide 423 00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:34,360 Ahas. You will not see one of those on 424 00:19:34,360 --> 00:19:37,840 my on my page unless it unless like I've trialed it over a 425 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:39,120 period of time, if that makes sense. 426 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:42,040 And I was able to do that with this product. 427 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:44,720 But I but I had to fight for it. I had to really fight for it. 428 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:46,960 And the joke is that like it was that video was actually supposed 429 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:49,200 to go up yesterday. They still haven't approved it 430 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:51,600 and I submitted it over a week ago. 431 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:55,640 So it almost feels like this is my one big crux with like the 432 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:58,360 agency brand kind of back and forth. 433 00:19:58,360 --> 00:20:00,880 It's like there's a lot of things missing. 434 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:03,360 It's like we're almost putting on a like we're almost being put 435 00:20:03,360 --> 00:20:06,440 on a back burner a little bit. And also on top of that, like 436 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:08,400 they just want their their brand. 437 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:11,280 Promoted in a way that they want it to be heard. 438 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:13,400 That's kind of like how. They control and they're they're 439 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:15,560 so scared. I mean the number of reviews 440 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:18,200 these things go through and like can you change this word legal? 441 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:19,360 Rerecord. Yeah. 442 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,680 And The thing is, that is not what influencer marketing is. 443 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:26,640 You have missed the mark if you think something that scripted 444 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,880 will do well on a page like yours or even mine for that 445 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:31,880 matter. It won't because people realize 446 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:33,400 that's not the kind of content we make. 447 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:36,720 And so many agencies and brands don't get that. 448 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:38,680 And I just didn't like you. That's fine. 449 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:39,720 You're just. I'm not going to get your 450 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:41,120 money's worth. Yeah, you know, you're paying me 451 00:20:41,120 --> 00:20:43,440 for my talent. That's the way you just heard 452 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:47,040 the about that I've taken I've turned down and it's like you're 453 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:50,640 paying someone that much for a scripted video to me, like we're 454 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:52,960 not actors and more than that, people are not people are 455 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:56,200 actually like especially following this because we're not 456 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,400 actors exactly because they want the unfiltered honesty. 457 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:01,080 I'll be honest with you. I can't even think of one 458 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:05,360 influencer where like where like they are the video is scripted 459 00:21:05,360 --> 00:21:07,360 and it would do well. Maybe like I don't know Alex 460 00:21:07,360 --> 00:21:10,480 Earl, but like her videos that are scripted, they're full on 461 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:13,520 commercials. They're like shot in like 4K, 462 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:15,760 say 8K or whatever with the professional camera. 463 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:18,160 She's got a team going on behind that and that's more. 464 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:20,800 People want to see and they like it and it works for her and 465 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,800 that's great. But most of us, well, I was 466 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:26,880 going to ask you like is when people just straight up copy 467 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:28,960 you, is it flattery? Because the number of creators 468 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:32,920 I've seen pop up since you because I've been like I've OG 469 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:35,440 I've known about you and followed you and loved your 470 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:37,600 content. And I see everyone else is like 471 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:39,720 they're just I was like, that's Monica's line. 472 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,640 What are you saying? But I don't know, is it 473 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:47,080 flattery? I think, I think, I think now 474 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:50,280 I've learned to just stay quiet. Initially I would get really 475 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:54,000 upset about it because I'd be like, damn, I worked so hard. 476 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:58,040 I, I, I put a lot of thought in my videos, even more so than a 477 00:21:58,040 --> 00:21:59,960 lot of people don't see. Like we have a full Monday 478 00:21:59,960 --> 00:22:02,040 board. I have two employees and we do 479 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:06,320 like the hook, the outline of the scripting, like everything 480 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:07,680 is. It's not so much like, it's more 481 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:09,880 like bullets, not like full scripts, but it's like, so that 482 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:13,320 way, like everything is like very planned and has like a 483 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:15,600 reason it goes up. Like we even have like there's a 484 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:19,680 field that's like, is it educational, inspirational? 485 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,600 It's very well thought out and I think it just breaks my heart a 486 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,960 little bit, but. Can I tell you something and 487 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:30,360 this is just as an outsider but an educated outsider you can't 488 00:22:30,360 --> 00:22:33,400 fake the authenticity. So the ones who are copying you 489 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:36,520 as they make their video like this is my no BS review. 490 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:39,480 And I'm like, where did you get that line from? 491 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:41,240 OK. And then I watch it and I was 492 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:42,480 like, how much should Rd. pay you for that? 493 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,160 Right? I can just immediately tell that 494 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:47,640 it's actually not that not authentic and it is ABS review, 495 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:48,920 even though they're saying that it's not. 496 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:52,280 And #2 and I want to ask you about this, but I think most 497 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:55,080 people probably don't know your whole background in engineering 498 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,120 before all of this. And when your brain works in 499 00:22:58,120 --> 00:23:01,400 that much of like a framework and constructed way, that degree 500 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:02,960 of intention cannot be replicated. 501 00:23:03,360 --> 00:23:06,120 That's my take as an. Outsider, I appreciate that. 502 00:23:06,120 --> 00:23:09,400 I think more than that, the way the place that I see it the most 503 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,800 is the color theory test when that that went viral like 4 504 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:14,960 years ago and like. I mean, everyone's a color 505 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:16,440 theory. Queen everyone's a color theory 506 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:17,360 queen. That's OK. 507 00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:20,120 I'm happy that like more than anything, I'm happy that like 508 00:23:20,120 --> 00:23:23,360 the knowledge of that is being spread out further than like my 509 00:23:23,360 --> 00:23:25,320 own audience because I think it's really important. 510 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:27,840 But I also think it's important to give like credit where it's 511 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:31,120 like sort of due, right? Like I see it's become a global 512 00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:35,120 trend like like creators in like Indonesia, like all parts of 513 00:23:35,120 --> 00:23:38,400 Asia, like even parts of Africa are like doing like the trend or 514 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,080 whatever you want to call it. And I think that's amazing. 515 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,200 But again, it's like, it would be great for some credit, but I 516 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:47,600 think at some point in time it's like you, you, you know, in your 517 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,120 heart what you have done, if that makes sense. 518 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:55,080 And I'm proud of like what the impact of like these videos that 519 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,200 I've been able to make. And I think I've rephrased it in 520 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:00,640 my head more so that like, oh, OK, I see it now. 521 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,480 I'm like, instead of being like, damn, that person copied me, 522 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:05,800 blah, blah, blah. I think in my head I'm like, OK, 523 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,200 it like it pinches a little bit and then and it kind of goes, 524 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:12,240 you know what, I'm happy that this message is being spread to 525 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,080 an audience outside of mine. I think I get to that point. 526 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:18,040 And then if that's a level of acceptance that I'm like, I'm 527 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,480 at, and then because otherwise you let everything bother you 528 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:25,000 and it's just not a not a hole I want to go down in. 529 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:27,680 No, I agree. And I always say if you're going 530 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:29,880 to take something I made and you're going to expand on it, 531 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,640 you're going to make it better, you're going to reform, I think 532 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,200 that's cool. I actually love seeing that when 533 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:40,000 you just copy what I do and you just make a video that's quite 534 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,680 literally the one that I made, but it's just a view instead. 535 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:44,880 It's fun. But then I I always go back to, 536 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:46,680 and this is true for surgery too, right? 537 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,760 As a plastic surgeon, you know, my work is my work. 538 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,320 And you can copy, you can try and recreate, but the skill set 539 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:53,840 with which I do it will always shine through. 540 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,000 You're amazing at like what you do. 541 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,960 Like when I first learned like about your background in the 1st 542 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:03,120 place and I even was telling my husband to like, it's really 543 00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:06,720 inspirational. And I'm so excited to see like 544 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,480 all the women who are like, following you, like what they 545 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:11,960 get with from your content because I feel like I've gotten 546 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:13,680 a lot from it too. Oh, thank you. 547 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,600 I appreciate that. But I, yeah, I it's funny, this 548 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,880 this sort of imitation concept on social media. 549 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,200 The way I draw the line is when people take what I've done and 550 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,880 they make it better, they make it funnier, they make it cooler, 551 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:26,600 they bring it to a new. I'm like, that's great. 552 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:28,800 I love that. If you're just doing it again, 553 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,080 it's what it's the intention that you're going into it with. 554 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,720 If it's literally just to watch that follower count go up, I 555 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:35,760 don't know what the intent is there. 556 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,760 If your intent is to take a good idea and make it better, spread 557 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:39,880 the word. I think that's great. 558 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:41,920 I love that. And with credits? 559 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:44,560 With the credits. With credits. 560 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,120 I don't know, I mean, it's like as simple as inspired by yeah, 561 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:52,440 whoever right in the caption comments, whatever it may be, 562 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:56,120 but I think people want to take want to invent the idea for 563 00:25:56,120 --> 00:25:58,800 their own, if that makes sense. There was even like a few 564 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,360 creators, like during like the color theory test, they were 565 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:05,480 consistently tagging like me and my, my friend who it was color 566 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:10,240 theory at, at Jaslemao, Jasmine. And then eventually like they 567 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,320 like completely stopped like tagging us and just continued on 568 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,840 with their series. And then when we approached 569 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,200 them, they were like, yeah, we're like doing our own thing 570 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:20,680 now with it. It's like ours. 571 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,880 I was like, OK, yeah, we're doing that now, OK. 572 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:26,760 OK. OK, I didn't respond. 573 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,840 I was like, OK, yeah. I'm like, I'm not someone who is 574 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,720 like confrontational on that end. 575 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,320 It's like people know what people believe, what they want 576 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:37,480 to believe. And I know the truth of my my 577 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:39,920 truth. I know my truth and that's about 578 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,000 it. Yeah, and I think that's the 579 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,120 healthiest pocket to sit in and especially in the world that we 580 00:26:45,120 --> 00:26:47,000 live in. But I do want to talk a little 581 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:50,480 bit about color theory. I so I definitely have golden 582 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:52,640 olive undertones. We're very similar in skin tone. 583 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,040 And one of the things that frustrated me, and you're going 584 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,000 to have to correct me because this is my theory, this is my 585 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,000 color theory, OK. And I want to know if this is 586 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:04,400 true because I have golden olive undertones to neutralize them. 587 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:08,160 I actually need something that doesn't make it more olive. 588 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:10,560 And what frustrates me is what, you know, you do like the 589 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:12,960 questionnaire on sephora.com or whatever, and you go, you know 590 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,360 this undertone and I'm golden and I'm warm, whatever. 591 00:27:15,360 --> 00:27:18,400 And you click through all the things and then I will land on a 592 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:22,240 very warm foundation. But actually I don't need a warm 593 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,480 foundation. I need a slightly cooler tone 594 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,800 foundation to offset how warm my skin actually is. 595 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:32,880 Otherwise I look jaundiced. So I'm, and to this day you can 596 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:37,160 check you guys can go to, you know, Rare and Fenty and 597 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,480 Givenchy and all these different foundation brands and you can 598 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,280 see based on what you feed in what they spit out. 599 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,080 And I like, do I have it right? Am I right about this? 600 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:49,000 Am I wrong about this? Do we need to educate the labs? 601 00:27:49,120 --> 00:27:51,120 Why are people naming their foundations this way? 602 00:27:51,120 --> 00:27:53,800 Because in my or the opposite is true as well. 603 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,760 If you're very cool toned and you have a little bit of Gray 604 00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,160 under, you know, if that's your skin tone, you need a little 605 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,520 warm. So your your response to the 606 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:03,760 questionnaire should be something that brings a little 607 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:05,080 bit of golden olive into your skin tone. 608 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,000 So why isn't it like that? So I think we'll first to answer 609 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,520 like the golden olive question. I think the hard part with 610 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,680 anything olive and in particular because I definitely see you 611 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:17,120 like on your skin tone, like what you're saying is that when 612 00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:21,680 it comes to like oliveness, it's actually like a desaturation in 613 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,000 place, if that makes sense. Like your skin tone is like 614 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,920 slightly not, I wouldn't say grayish in hue. 615 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,440 Almost greenish. It's like, yeah, But more than 616 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:31,760 that, it's not as fluorescent as a lot of these foundations in 617 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,080 the market. Like it's like that's the one 618 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,760 thing when I go to these labs, they're making these foundations 619 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:41,000 so fluorescent they almost have like a brightness to them, like 620 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,560 human skin tone almost doesn't have, especially in our range, 621 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:46,120 in our range in particular. And that's because most of them 622 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:48,600 are not using. But then it just makes me look 623 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:52,240 more fluorescent or like orange. Orange, yes. 624 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:56,000 So I just, I just need somebody, somebody please pay attention to 625 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,800 this conversation and rename your foundation. 626 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:02,080 So there's no standard system. In fact, the I like a lot of 627 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,080 Korean brands because they've standardized it. 628 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,600 So like we're you and I are probably between the shades of 629 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:08,760 like 30 and 35 in Korea. How? 630 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:10,680 Smart is that? Every shade is labeled on a 631 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,080 number. Maybe it's not like 100% correct 632 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:18,440 but if you know around the same. Like I wear a shade 34.5 in 633 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:24,400 Esquire, 35 N and tier tier 33.5 in a Cleo or something like 634 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:26,200 that. Like they're all the same number 635 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:28,160 ranges if that makes sense. And the undertones are 636 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,560 standardized. But the American system I'm like 637 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,600 shade neutral and L'Oreal. I want shade warm and stay 638 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:37,680 Lauder and then cool in lancome. Like it makes no and that's the 639 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:39,280 normal. That's what I started doing is 640 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:41,040 adding. I have a cool tone Givenchy 641 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:46,080 foundation that I mix with my way to Yellow house labs, but I 642 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:48,040 love the formula. But it's what? 643 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:49,240 Shade do you have in the house lab? 644 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,640 I have the same problem with the house lab. 645 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:55,440 I love the formula. It wears so it looks orange on 646 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:57,120 me and so I have to mix my cool tone. 647 00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:58,280 Givenchy, That's what I have on today. 648 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:00,040 Is it looks good? Thank you. 649 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,080 That honestly, I was like, did somebody get that on camera? 650 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:04,680 But we did. It looks good. 651 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:07,520 Because Monica said my foundation looks good, I have to 652 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,880 mix the two because I can't get it to match and then I just get 653 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:15,040 irritable because why are you? If I take this quiz online it 654 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:18,720 will land me at a very warm foundation, which is actually 655 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:19,840 not what I need for my skin tone. 656 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,640 OK, that was just my rant. No IIA, 100% agree. 657 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:25,560 Agree with that. I honestly was like even 658 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,720 thinking about it like you can make 100 shades of foundation 659 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:31,800 and I still don't think everyone's going to find their 660 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:35,240 shade because there's so many like different like variants of 661 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:36,800 human skin tone, if that makes sense. 662 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:41,640 But I also think that like these foundation shade matchers online 663 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,600 are like trash. Like they're like, I'm actually 664 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:47,040 like doing. What's funny is that, and I 665 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:49,840 thought my next whatever you want to call adventure would 666 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:53,400 sort of be like a makeup brand. But my team and I are actually 667 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,040 looking more back into stuff between the intersection of 668 00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:57,160 beauty and tech. Yeah. 669 00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,200 Which is. Really crazy because I know you 670 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,360 work with AIA lot. Obviously your backgrounds in 671 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:03,440 engineering. Tell me a little bit more about 672 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,320 your background in engineering and where you see the future of 673 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:07,480 beauty tech. Yeah. 674 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,920 So I mean, I studied computer science and I was a software 675 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:14,440 engineer, data engineer for Twilio for like 2 1/2 years. 676 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,800 My goal with engineering was to always be a product manager 677 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,240 because I liked leading people. I wanted to lead the road map. 678 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:23,680 And I honestly, it felt like I had more people skills than 679 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:27,280 wanting to sort of like code behind the computer. 680 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,960 But the reason I went the software route was so that I had 681 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:34,200 that not relatability, but I could talk to the engineers 682 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,120 better in a way that was more technical than just here's 683 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,080 tickets, just go do it, if that makes sense. 684 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:43,320 So and that was like my reasoning to doing Compsci and 685 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:45,840 then after that again, I was a product manager at that Rakatin 686 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,440 subsidiary company. It was called Collective voice 687 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,320 or shops out collective and it actually went under last year. 688 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:53,320 Yeah. So it's no longer there, but 689 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:56,000 Rakatin is there. And I built their entire like 690 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:57,520 dashboard system, which was cool. 691 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,840 And and honestly, like when I quit my corporate job, it was 2 692 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:05,560 1/2 years ago or so now and I. It's crazy to me how long you 693 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:08,680 held on to that, by the way. I was like, I know she's wildly 694 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:10,280 successful. I know she doesn't need this 695 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,760 other job. I mean, I, I did it because I 696 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:14,720 mostly was, I was getting sick every week. 697 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:18,160 Like I, I, I, I have a really good immune system. 698 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,760 So I was getting sick every other month and I, and I 699 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,520 couldn't keep up with the momentum of like where my page 700 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,160 was going at some point in time I was like, OK, I've seen three 701 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,360 years of financial success on social media then that's 702 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:31,760 outperformed my tech job, if that makes sense. 703 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:36,720 And like I also, I felt like I almost live, live by a no 704 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,640 regrets mindset. Like I didn't want to be 70 or 705 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:42,280 60 and being like, I have regrets that I didn't pursue 706 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:44,120 this. What's funny is I made like 5 707 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:45,600 backup plans. I was like, OK, this is not 708 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:46,880 going to work. I'm putting money away. 709 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:51,520 That's just going in this this mutual fund to go to NBA later, 710 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:53,240 blah, blah blah. If things don't work out because 711 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,080 you never know, right? Like this is I'm a self, I'm 712 00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:57,680 self-employed. I have a business now. 713 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,800 But like back then I wasn't S corped or anything like that. 714 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,120 Yeah, it was just me and my husband and that's it, right? 715 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,960 Randomly moving to LA and I'm glad we like did that because 716 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,400 moving here, like definitely opened up so many doors for me 717 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,400 in the best way ever. But you kind of going back to 718 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,840 like the tech thing. Like I, I really liked, let me 719 00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:20,720 put it, Let me put it this way. I like the ideation side of the 720 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:24,880 tech field, if that makes sense. I liked working with tech, I 721 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:29,680 like working with the people in tech, and I also liked how fast 722 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:31,160 things iterated, if that makes sense. 723 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,600 Like it, let's say there was a bug or someone was complaining 724 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,080 about something. It's just like one couple, maybe 725 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:37,760 24 hours. You could get something. 726 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:41,120 It gets pushed, pushed to production and then like the end 727 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:43,640 user can use it. You have beauty brands out there 728 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:45,480 on their hand. It's got a one year turn around, 729 00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:47,840 2 year turn around doesn't work out. 730 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,560 It's going in the landfill, it's creating so much waste, if that 731 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:54,200 makes sense. Like so I thought I'm like, it's 732 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,560 funny because again, I wanted to have like that makeup brand. 733 00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:59,960 And I think eventually that one day that will happen. 734 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,840 Just that may not be my first venture back into whatever is 735 00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:07,000 like my next journey or step. I think it's going to be back. 736 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:10,199 I'd not, I think I'd know it's going to be back to tech in some 737 00:34:10,199 --> 00:34:12,360 way, shape or form because there's actually a lot of 738 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:17,360 brands, investments and tech founders sort of emerging in the 739 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,600 beauty space. And I'm one of the few creators 740 00:34:19,679 --> 00:34:22,960 who actually has the expertise to be able to speak on both 741 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,600 ends. And especially with like the 742 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:29,960 emergence of AII know there's a lot of cons with AI, but I think 743 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,800 if there's a way to use AI in a way to almost help reduce the 744 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:38,199 waste that the beauty beauty industry reaches every year, I, 745 00:34:38,199 --> 00:34:40,280 that would be something that I really want to solve. 746 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:43,040 And there is a way, I unfortunately can't fully share 747 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:46,080 what that looks like currently, but I'm, that's something that 748 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,120 I'm sort of working on, if that makes sense. 749 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,639 Because something a lot of people don't know is that the 750 00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,679 average return rate on products overall, I think is around like 751 00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:57,920 4 or 5%. The returns on foundations and 752 00:34:57,920 --> 00:34:59,520 complexion products is almost 10. 753 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:04,240 Yeah, 10%, which is crazy. And what Sephora and Ulta does 754 00:35:04,240 --> 00:35:07,240 with those returned, there's complexion products, trash, 755 00:35:07,720 --> 00:35:09,400 trash. And then the brand eats the, 756 00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:13,280 eats the waste. Yeah, it's actually like in, in. 757 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:15,240 And that's actually even something I've talked about on 758 00:35:15,240 --> 00:35:19,040 my page like overconsumption, like like I make PR boxes for 759 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:21,640 people like customized to their skin tone because I even find 760 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,000 influencer giveaways to be like overconsumption. 761 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,640 Who needs like? I know people ask me if you see 762 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,320 them, why don't you do influence or why don't you do giveaways 763 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:33,000 and go I donate them or I love that I give them away to, you 764 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,560 know, any number of people in my life that I know will use it. 765 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:38,280 It's not going to go to trash. But I also get frustrated with 766 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:40,800 these ridiculous PR boxes. It's so much waste. 767 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,320 I don't need it. And for complexion products, 768 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,280 they'll send it to me and more than 50% of the time is still 769 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:48,560 the incorrection. So I can't even speak to it. 770 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:50,600 A simple questionnaire or asking me. 771 00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,440 I can look at a description and tell you with relative security, 772 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:56,480 which shade I am. And I, nobody asked, nobody 773 00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:58,120 reaches out, right? Everything is streamlined. 774 00:35:58,120 --> 00:35:59,800 So I, I love that you're working on this. 775 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:01,640 And I was sort of secretly praying that's what your answer 776 00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:03,160 was going to be when I asked you this question. 777 00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:07,440 Because I think everyone's anti AI and I think there's a lot of 778 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:10,360 AI slop out there and there's a lot of weird paid AI 779 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,240 endorsements that are targeting women that I don't stand behind. 780 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:17,000 But I do think AI is a tool that we can use responsibly for 781 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:18,640 things like waste and beauty. Yes. 782 00:36:18,720 --> 00:36:22,560 And 100% I think, yeah, I think there's like layers to it, if 783 00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:25,800 that makes sense of like what my boundary is with it, of course. 784 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,600 But I think if you're there are ways as you mentioned to like 785 00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,520 like sort of have it be used for the greater good, it's a lot 786 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:33,560 faster. And on top of that, like as I 787 00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:36,520 mentioned earlier, like you a brand could make, let's say I'm 788 00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,480 have a brand and I make 50 Shades and everyone is not going 789 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:40,880 to find their shade there, right. 790 00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,600 So like what if there was like a tool that's pulling from? 791 00:36:44,720 --> 00:36:48,320 Maybe you 50 brands, right? And what if you can upload a 792 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:53,160 photo and you can maybe put in 3 or 4 concerns as to why you 793 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,840 don't like the found or even say I have this foundation in this 794 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:59,360 color and it is orange on me. That's a benchmark for AI. 795 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,040 Plus, they're pulling the data from all of the millions of 796 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:05,080 other users and you're loading your photograph and then it 797 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:07,520 gives you the right answer. Exactly. 798 00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:08,640 Love it. Hit it. 799 00:37:08,720 --> 00:37:10,120 Hit the nail on the head. I love it. 800 00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:14,240 All right, I wanted to do some rapid fire questions name #1 801 00:37:14,240 --> 00:37:15,840 brand right off the top of your head that we shouldn't be 802 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,080 sleeping on, right? Now we shouldn't be sleeping on 803 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:23,000 OK color pop. OK, name a brand that everyone's 804 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:24,800 obsessed with and you do not understand the hype. 805 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:28,240 Hourglass. Hourglass. 806 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,720 Easy. OK, what is a skin care or 807 00:37:31,720 --> 00:37:34,640 makeup category that you think everybody should buy drugstore 808 00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:37,080 because you never understood why it needed to be luxury? 809 00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:38,800 Eyeliner. OK, same. 810 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:39,920 Yeah, same. Same same. 811 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:41,160 I love the eye. I love. 812 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:42,920 Nyx the next. I'm wearing a NYX. 813 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:45,840 Yeah, I'm wearing a NYX eyeliner with a Maybelline mascara. 814 00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:46,920 Yep. OK. 815 00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:50,080 What is this is I, I'm curious what what you say about this 816 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,560 because I know a lot of your content is also drugstore versus 817 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:53,600 luxury. What's worth it? 818 00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:57,040 What is a category in makeup or skin care that you think really 819 00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:02,320 should be luxury? Oh, foundation everything is 820 00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:04,920 still orange still, and you can't try every try anything 821 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,280 like you can't go into like CVS and try on a foundation. 822 00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:11,960 So unfortunately like I'm I still buy most of my like 823 00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:15,440 foundation products from. Like Sephora? 824 00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:19,400 Yeah. OK, Your favorite brand that 825 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:23,040 nailed a brand trip? Oh, that nailed a brand trip. 826 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:27,120 Honestly, I haven't gone on too many brand trips lately. 827 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:29,920 My my my brand trips have been consulting trips. 828 00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:33,280 That's awesome. Recently I went went on with 829 00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,840 Armani, but it was a consulting trip, so it's. 830 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:37,320 OK. OK. 831 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:39,400 I'm going to ask you about that offline because you know, Sydney 832 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:41,760 Sweeney represents Armani. Oh, she does. 833 00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:45,560 And if they ask me, I'd say no. OK. 834 00:38:45,720 --> 00:38:48,160 Because I think it's ridiculous that they hired Sydney Sweeney 835 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:51,240 to represent I wear, I don't. Think they represent Sydney 836 00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:52,160 Sweeney? Do they? 837 00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:56,120 She represents the Marina. Carpenter No, that's who I I 838 00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:58,600 knew on on my end. Is one of the brand is the one 839 00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:00,360 of the brand ambassadors for Armani Beauty. 840 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:03,120 OK, I didn't know that. So anyways, but we all have our 841 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:04,520 different thresholds and I'm just. 842 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:06,920 They have 9. They're the only brand that has 843 00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,240 9 olive shades and the blue and green pigment. 844 00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:11,600 See, that makes sense. Yeah, and I and they. 845 00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:13,560 And it's probably because they use you as a consultant. 846 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:18,000 So we need people like you. And see, this is it, It's 847 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:19,440 interesting. I like to ask people these. 848 00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:20,960 Questions because I was looking at you. 849 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:23,960 If you want to stop mixing your foundation, I would recommend 850 00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:26,200 shade 7.8 in the Armani foundation. 851 00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:29,480 I think that would be your match. 7.8 yeah OK, I have the 852 00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:31,000 Armani. One, I'm more than shade 9. 853 00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:33,320 OK, I think I have 8.75. OK. 854 00:39:33,720 --> 00:39:36,160 I would try like 7.8 or 8 point something. 855 00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:37,120 They reformulated. I don't. 856 00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:38,200 Know if you tried the new one? They did. 857 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:39,400 I have the old one and the new one. 858 00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:41,760 The old one matches me better but I also may have purchased 859 00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:46,440 the wrong shade. OK, are you allowed to say worst 860 00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:48,600 brand trip you've ever been on? Oh. 861 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:50,600 But I think you're honest. Sometimes you just post about 862 00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:51,680 that. You're like, this was terrible 863 00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:53,960 and I did. This worst brand trip that I've 864 00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:57,920 ever been on. I don't know if I've I've I've 865 00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:01,680 been on a worst brand trip, but I'm pretty intentional with 866 00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,160 brand trips. I also I'm also not a lifestyle 867 00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:07,240 creator, so I don't yeah, get flown around like like the 868 00:40:07,240 --> 00:40:10,080 average lifestyle creator or whatever you want to call it. 869 00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,880 I mostly and I have a lot of a lot of brands like like. 870 00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:18,400 Don't work with me in that capacity because they, I also 871 00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:20,560 don't like every single one of their products, if that makes 872 00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:21,080 sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 873 00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:22,240 So I don't know if I have a worst one. 874 00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:24,400 OK. Yeah, this Armani 1 is really 875 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,720 interesting to me because I was so frustrated when they used 876 00:40:27,720 --> 00:40:29,200 Sidney Sweeney for their advertising. 877 00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:33,560 But then I'm also so happy that they have the most olive shades 878 00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:36,520 and that they would know to hire you for consulting. 879 00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,560 Like that is redemptive for me. I now I'm like oh. 880 00:40:40,240 --> 00:40:42,760 Yeah, they're the only like brand at Sephora. 881 00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:46,200 Their shades actually run the olive shades run neutral because 882 00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:50,000 their competitor for olive shades is about face and Dior. 883 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:53,320 And I'm I'm super anti Dior for the range. 884 00:40:53,720 --> 00:40:56,840 They it's 2026 and they still have 4 shades of brown. 885 00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:00,000 I I cannot find a shade I whenever I bring people to 886 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:01,920 Sephora they were like Oh my God I want to buy the. 887 00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:04,760 So would you say Armani is one of is the most color inclusive 888 00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:06,520 luxury makeup line on? Yes, OK. 889 00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:09,480 And by far, but especially in luxury, by far it's got 890 00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:10,880 especially with the shade extension. 891 00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:13,080 I couldn't say that before, which is why I wasn't screaming 892 00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:16,560 on the top of my lungs for it. But now with the shade range 893 00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:19,680 expansion and the reformulation IA 100% agree. 894 00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:21,360 And it's only been reformulated once. 895 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:25,760 So the fact that they had that also like the previous range, I 896 00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:28,880 think don't think was like the best, but it had more shades 897 00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:30,640 ahead of its time, if that makes sense. 898 00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:33,680 And now that. They that was my go to formula 899 00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:35,880 and foundation for years and years and years. 900 00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:37,680 When they reform. I still like it. 901 00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:40,120 I still like it a lot. I just am personally offended 902 00:41:40,240 --> 00:41:42,200 that's who they would choose to represent. 903 00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:44,360 I didn't know that. I thought it was a Sabrina 904 00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:45,920 Carpenter, because that's who I work. 905 00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:50,760 I'll ask them. Yeah, multiple brand 906 00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:52,320 ambassadors, right? Sabrina. 907 00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:55,200 So I'm not a fan of her either by far. 908 00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:58,120 I hate what she represents. That's a whole other topic. 909 00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:00,960 Yeah, that's why I'm I'm. So that's actually interesting 910 00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:02,640 to me that they would have the insight. 911 00:42:02,720 --> 00:42:04,560 Obviously there's people on their team being like, no, you 912 00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:06,400 need color inclusivity. Look at their shade range. 913 00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:09,320 Hire someone like Monica. More than that, they're insane 914 00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:12,040 obsessive with their like the way that they get their shade 915 00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:13,640 ranges. They go to every country. 916 00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:16,240 Not every country, but they go to a couple countries on every 917 00:42:16,240 --> 00:42:18,480 continent. They even went to India and they 918 00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,400 even went to places in Africa too, which is rare in my opinion 919 00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:24,880 to do a shade distribution chart of the average skin tone. 920 00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:27,000 To try, That's impressive commitment. 921 00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:28,800 No, it is. It's to try to understand. 922 00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:31,120 We all hired Sydney Sweeney. I don't. 923 00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:34,480 Know why that's crazy? To me, it's like, yeah, that 924 00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:35,480 makes sense. Yeah, there's not a. 925 00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:37,920 Podcast. Episode you know they're they're 926 00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:41,320 I would say way ahead of like especially when it comes to 927 00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:45,000 Sephora brands there's a lot of brands who like say they care 928 00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:47,120 but they. Would you say Dior is the worst 929 00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:48,360 of the luxury houses? I would. 930 00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:51,040 Say YSL is the worst. I don't have any YSL. 931 00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:52,800 YSL is the worst. Did you see like that? 932 00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:57,520 That that Ashley blush? It was so that ridiculous that 933 00:42:57,520 --> 00:42:59,960 that I. Have one powder YSL blush. 934 00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:02,480 I didn't buy any other liquid blushes cause not a singular 935 00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:03,120 one. Yeah, it was. 936 00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:05,760 It was Gray. They launched like a really at 937 00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:09,040 Lil Ashley lilac blush and then then I remember. 938 00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:11,080 Your video. Oh my God, I had to bring my dad 939 00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:13,720 and my husband into that. They're like they yeah, that was 940 00:43:13,720 --> 00:43:18,520 so frustrating because the model had actually, you know, like the 941 00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:22,280 initial question you asked me. With the South Sudanese model, 942 00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:24,520 the same sort of thing happened. It was someone around my 943 00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:26,440 complexion who was claiming. I remember. 944 00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:28,120 That you want the picture on your video? 945 00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:30,280 Yeah, yeah. Who was claiming to wear that 946 00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:32,280 ashy blush? And you're like, no, you are 947 00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:32,760 not. Yeah. 948 00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:35,040 Then it's like, I was like sitting there like, this is not 949 00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:37,000 that blush. This is they mixed it with 950 00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:38,480 something else. It's giving lies. 951 00:43:38,720 --> 00:43:40,760 Yeah. But if someone like had seen 952 00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:43,560 that and actually half my comment section or I would say 953 00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:46,600 25% of my comment section became, oh, I bought that blush 954 00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:47,840 because the model was wearing it. 955 00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:51,680 People don't realize like they're your marketing Swatch is 956 00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:55,160 a part of like your, your the swatches are a part of your 957 00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:57,040 marketing messaging. Yeah, right. 958 00:43:57,040 --> 00:44:00,320 So it's like like I get that like that to me that blush 959 00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:02,560 inherently wasn't controversial. Like if they put it on a really 960 00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:05,480 white water model or whatever, like a really fair skin model, 961 00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:08,240 it's not for like not every shade is meant to work for you. 962 00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:10,160 They. Just lead with that honesty and 963 00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:11,360 integrity. It's not that hard. 964 00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:12,920 Exactly. And more than that, they also 965 00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:14,800 didn't have like, dark. They didn't have many darker 966 00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:16,480 shades. Yeah, if that makes sense. 967 00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:18,320 Like they have. They launched like 5 shades and 968 00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:21,280 they did a shade extension later, but then of the 5 shades, 969 00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:23,360 they had one Berry shade. Everything else was too light. 970 00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:25,640 Yeah, it was like like that white base. 971 00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:27,680 OK, let's talk about drugstore makeup. 972 00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:30,040 Most shade inclusively. Shade inclusive. 973 00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:34,080 Most shade inclusive L'Oreal true match by far, and at least 974 00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:36,560 shade inclusive. Everybody else. 975 00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:43,520 Probably it may be Essence, maybe Revlon's getting better. 976 00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:47,080 I would say Essence and CoverGirl are really lagging 977 00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:49,400 behind in the shade range category. 978 00:44:49,720 --> 00:44:51,400 OK. I have one last question for 979 00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:56,000 you. You started in in computer 980 00:44:56,000 --> 00:45:00,240 science and engineering, right? So clearly a very different 981 00:45:00,240 --> 00:45:02,000 world than the one that you live in now. 982 00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:04,520 What I think is so cool is you found such an incredible natural 983 00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:07,120 intersection of the two and it's great to see that you're taking 984 00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:10,520 that to new heights. Knowing who you are today in 985 00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:15,120 2026, would you still go through the engineering education degree 986 00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:17,640 training or knowing who you've become in the beauty world, 987 00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:19,680 would you just jump straight to where would you have just said, 988 00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:22,120 forget that? I don't need that to be a 989 00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:24,240 content creator, a consultant, you know, function the beauty 990 00:45:24,240 --> 00:45:26,160 world and just Fast forward to where you are today. 991 00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:30,400 That's a great question. I truly believe that I'm here 992 00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:34,240 where I am today because of the choices that I made years ago. 993 00:45:34,240 --> 00:45:39,240 So I would, I would do it again, like do I would I say like what 994 00:45:39,240 --> 00:45:41,760 I work in the in the field probably for four or five years? 995 00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,080 No, maybe not. I was dying for a while, at 996 00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:46,640 least the last year I was doing it, I was, I was very much like 997 00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:50,800 on the brink of burnout. But I think having that 998 00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:55,400 background, that mindset sort of prepared me also like working in 999 00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:58,440 corporate, even sort of like helped me be a better brand 1000 00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:02,760 partner, helped me understand like how to talk to investors, 1001 00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:07,240 how to talk to brand founders, how to talk to honestly, a wide 1002 00:46:07,240 --> 00:46:09,560 variety of people that I probably wouldn't have been able 1003 00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:11,680 to if I didn't have that corporate experience. 1004 00:46:11,720 --> 00:46:13,320 Right. I think that the perspective 1005 00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:15,360 that people have is what is truly unique, right? 1006 00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:17,200 When you talk about diversity, there's a lot of different 1007 00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:19,480 things you can look at and I think the education and 1008 00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:22,360 perspective that you bring to something is unique. 1009 00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:26,520 I was a surgeon who worked for a hospital system before I went 1010 00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:30,160 private and I can tell you right now I make more money. 1011 00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:31,720 I mean, especially with the offers. 1012 00:46:31,720 --> 00:46:34,320 I don't take all of them, but easily could make way more as an 1013 00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:37,240 influencer than I did as a double board certified 1014 00:46:37,240 --> 00:46:40,760 reconstructive microvascular surgeon working for a mega 1015 00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:43,880 hospital system as an academic surgeon in Los Angeles. 1016 00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:46,400 Which is wild and blows my mind because of how much time and 1017 00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:50,840 money I spent to become that. But I wouldn't change having 1018 00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:53,280 worked for that system, because having the perspective of all 1019 00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:55,960 the ways people get it wrong in medicine is what allowed me to 1020 00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:57,600 help get it right in private practice. 1021 00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:01,200 Being an influencer today, I have these perspectives on 1022 00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:04,360 beauty and womanhood and advocacy because of the women 1023 00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:06,680 that I treat and because of the surgery that I do and because of 1024 00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:10,720 all of the training that I did. And so, you know, my advice when 1025 00:47:10,720 --> 00:47:13,640 people ask me is you, your uniqueness will be your 1026 00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:17,040 education and perspective, other things too, but that will very 1027 00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:19,840 much practically benefit whatever you choose to do. 1028 00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:23,720 So, you know, I I always say the more feathers in your cap, the 1029 00:47:23,720 --> 00:47:28,280 better off you'll be. 101,000 I 1000% believe that. 1030 00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:31,560 But adding on top of that too, like especially as a woman of 1031 00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:34,440 color, yeah, we're like we're and in the United States in 1032 00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:36,960 particular, it's a different if like you're an Indian crater in, 1033 00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:39,840 in India or an African creator in like Africa or Nigeria, 1034 00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:42,880 whatever you want to call it. But I think like in being a 1035 00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:46,480 minority, like influencing woman in the United States in 1036 00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:50,160 particular is a completely like you're you almost have to find a 1037 00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:52,320 reason to separate yourself because like people are not 1038 00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:53,760 watching you just for the way you look. 1039 00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:54,840 No. Does that make sense? 1040 00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:57,560 They'll turn away because of that often times because you 1041 00:47:57,560 --> 00:47:59,920 don't represent whatever demographic that they have been 1042 00:47:59,920 --> 00:48:03,640 traditionally told is aesthetic is beautiful, is, you know, 1043 00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:05,400 whatever it is. But that's I think also why I'm 1044 00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:06,880 like, I'm going to grow out my Gray hair. 1045 00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:09,600 I'm going to tell people that I don't get manicures. 1046 00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:12,240 I'm going to, but I also love beauty and I also have three 1047 00:48:12,240 --> 00:48:15,160 kids and I have a full time job, many full time jobs. 1048 00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:17,640 And all of that creates this unique little hodgepodge 1049 00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:19,760 perspective. And I think that's what makes me 1050 00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:20,960 unique. So that's one of the things that 1051 00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:24,000 I really love about your delivery on your content is you 1052 00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:27,320 can tell that your brain is functioning at a capacity that 1053 00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:32,360 is so much wider than than and just the beauty content that I 1054 00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:34,960 see delivered by other people, which is why we love Monica. 1055 00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:38,680 I appreciate that a lot of thought gets put in everything 1056 00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:41,440 we do. Well, I I as a consumer, I I can 1057 00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:43,920 tell for sure. Thank you so much for joining me 1058 00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:49,040 on Inside Thoughts Out Loud. I truly, truly love everything 1059 00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:51,560 that you're doing. And I am so excited because I 1060 00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:54,240 think Sky's the limit on what we can do with computer science, 1061 00:48:54,240 --> 00:48:57,160 engineering, AI and beauty. And I just, I'm like making a 1062 00:48:57,160 --> 00:48:58,600 premonition. I think you're just going to be 1063 00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:01,000 on the forefront of that. And for that, I'm very excited. 1064 00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:02,960 Me too, me too. Thank you for having me. 1065 00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:04,320 This was amazing. My pleasure.