Hi everyone, welcome to another episode of Inside Thoughts Out
Loud. Today I have the pleasure of
sitting down with a dear friend, AMI Jasai.
She is a well known influencer and content creator across many
subjects including beauty, fashion, motherhood, Wellness.
And the really cool thing about AMI is that she's been in this
industry, the consumer facing aspect of media for a very, very
long time. And when you take that and
compare to someone like me who hasn't been and just recently
started stepping out into the social media world, you can
really see that we have very, very different views and
approaches with social media and how we interact with our social
media pages and our followers and specifically trolls.
I've been wanting to talk to her for a while because I think
there's this really interesting culture on social media where
people assume that they know the totality of who you are or what
you do simply based on the content you put out there.
We open ourselves to criticism and communication by being on
social media, but it would shock you some of the types of
responses that we get from people.
I'm excited to sit down with AMI today and talk about her journey
into the content creation world, what that looked like for her,
how she has seen it evolved, and what she thinks about the
culture of social media, not just from the creator
perspective, but from the consumer perspective.
I'm really excited to have on me today.
Let's get into it. Welcome to Inside Thoughts Out
loud on me. I'm so excited to have you here.
I'm excited to be here. I.
The funny thing is, you and I could just talk for hours and it
would just be interesting no matter what.
Because I think one of the funniest things about us is that
we're so similar and so different.
Yeah. I, I mean, I know we've talked
about this a lot, very different.
And then I think at the core, there are things that we have
very similar, but I was actually really nervous when you asked me
to come on because I was like, if you can say everything in
such a succinct amount of time and get it out and you're like,
matter of fact. And I'm like, I feel like I'm
very, I need amendment and I need to think about what I'm
saying. And I'm very like, you know,
have, I need time. So I was like, how is this going
to work? But.
And we're both Libras. Yes, I know.
Which is so funny because. Yeah, you know, well, I think
what's really funny is I only knew of of you on social media
before I met you. And I even remember a friend was
like, oh, do you follow so and so I was like, I don't know, it
just feels like it felt very sanitized to me.
Yeah, yeah. And I, I mean, I can say it now
because we're friends, but I. And then when I met you, I mean,
you're so quick witted and you are so funny, just like
situational zingers. I mean, I just remember being so
surprised because it was such a departure from whatever my
conception of you had been based on your profile.
And I was embarrassed of myself for having thinking, having
thought that I knew who you were and have just I was just so
wrong like I was. And it was never anything bad.
It was just. It was just.
You know, like. Very curated, sanitized, like
motherhood and beauty and and I, I was so surprised by the side
of you that I saw after and of course have had the pleasure and
honor of getting to know. And I think it's so funny that I
myself was guilty of the very crime that I criticize everybody
else for now because when people assume things about me,
especially as of recent, there's a lot of like, do you ever spend
time with your kids? I never see your kids on social
media. And I used to and then I decided
to stop. I didn't want that anymore.
I don't have anybody to judge whether they do or don't.
I just made the decision to stop doing that and I my response is
why would you ever have the audacity to assume that the
totality of who I am is what I present to you on the Internet?
But that's what social media has done, right?
And I mean, that's just it actually.
I mean, it brings up so much because we as adults can
actually look at something and say, Oh my gosh, I caught myself
judging someone else and saying basically doing everything I
preach not to do right. 100% And I am.
That's why I want to start with that because I am literally
guilty of that. And at that time I didn't really
have a profile and I didn't, I did not have this perspective
that I do now. And I remember thinking back and
even just when I hung out with you for the first time,
thinking, Oh my gosh, jeez, this is just not what I what I
thought. I appreciate that too, because I
do think I'm very funny. No, but I do get told a lot
people are like, you are like you're kind of, you're weird,
you're funny, and you're just like, you know, you have these
fingers and I'm like, I know that's who I am.
But that also brings up this idea of social media and how we
present ourselves and how, oops, excuse me, but how like social
media has evolved, right? Like what started 15 years ago,
people were very curated. That's what it was.
They were these perfect cookie cutter little boxes of who you
wanted to be and what you wanted to be.
And now it's evolved into something of like, no, this is
who I am. This is what I represent on
every level, both professional, personal, emotional.
And so it's it's hard because, well.
You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't,
which is the reality of it. And I want to get to that.
But I first, one of the things I really wanted you to talk about
is I don't think people necessarily realize how deep in
the game you've been for so long because you have been in a
consumer facing media capacity for a really long time.
So give us the quick refresher of like where you started.
And then when I think of of your social media career, I, to me at
least, you're somebody who's really been there from the
beginning. And so you have had the pleasure
or not, however you. Think about it of.
Having to evolve. With the platform itself, no, I
mean, it's funny because I don't, I don't think I've been
in it from the beginning, but I also think I've been in some
form of media from the beginning, you know, especially
being South Asian, I think wanting and to be in journalism,
in media communications, all that stuff at my age was like,
what are you doing? That's, you know, why are you
not going to be a doctor or a lawyer?
And so that aspect was there, but then it pivoted because
everything pivoted. Everything on TV was going
streaming and then now as we know, social media and, and
streaming. So it pivoted and I still didn't
want to get on it when people were doing YouTube and
everything was like, I don't want to do this is it's not I
don't know. In a way it was almost like I
don't think my family or people would think that that's
something credible to do. And then I realized that's
actually what I need to be doing because I actually wanted I had
a voice. And you know, a lot of times
they say get on social media when you know that there's a
void in things that are being said and stories that are being
told. And I was like, I had yet to see
someone, especially from our demographic doing things around
mom life, right? And I was like, no one's doing
this. Why is nobody talking about how
to get ready with a 2 month old in your hands?
Or like, how do you take a shower with a baby?
How do you take two kids under 2 grocery shopping?
These were things that nobody, I didn't know.
So I was like, if I'm going through this for the first time,
how are other people doing this? Am I just kind of in the dark
here and nobody's telling me? And then I realized as much as I
would pitch, because that's what I would do in TV, nobody wanted
to see that what they wanted. They didn't want a great idea.
They want the great idea that shows return, right?
So I realize. Everyone is so ROI.
Yes, exactly. Even then and from the beginning
it has been. It just takes time to realize
that obviously any business, whatever it is, regardless of
how creative it is, there's always going to be a business
analytical standpoint to it. And so I realized, OK, I have to
create this myself. So then that's when I started
doing YouTube and then started doing social media and taking
Instagram more seriously and realizing like this isn't just
for fun. And I had to, you have to really
get out of your own head with that, you know, especially
being, again, I keep going back to the being South Asian thing
because I feel like for a long time people just thought it was
completely, oh, that's cute. That's.
Cute. I mean, I, I turned 40 this year
and I have, I feel like I've lived many lives because of all
the things that I keep wanting to do.
But even my own parents are like, you're, you're such a
great surgeon. Do we, do we really need the
podcast and the, this and the that?
And I tried explaining to them, I think it's always been a part
of who I am, but I didn't have any opportunity to explore the
side of me while I was working 100 to 120 hours a week as a
resident or a young mom to kids navigating an early surgical
career. It just wasn't an option for me.
So now that I have that opportunity, I don't want to
miss it because they really do enjoy it and that and you know,
and there's support and they, they get it, but it's, it's just
such an interesting pivot. At least you get to say I am a
surgeon and then I have a social.
Media, it kind of sucks that it has to be like.
That I know because. There's so much I will go on
record. I will go on record as saying
it's very hard to do this. I mean, it is, I know, extremely
time consuming and there's so much creativity that goes into
it. And it's almost like if you
said, oh, I was the head of a media marketing team, right?
Or a a marketing think tank, whatever people like.
Oh that's cool. But if you say I'm an influencer
or content creator, they don't mentally equate the two things,
yet they are very very similar. You've built a brand off of who
you are. You are constantly reevaluating
and creating content based on current trends and you
absolutely have to have a read of the of the public.
Absolutely. But you are so right.
And I don't know if you remember this, but when we had gone to, I
think we were at an event together and I was like, it is
so much easier introducing you versus someone like when I feel
like I have to introduce myself. When I introduce myself, I, I
sometimes will feel like, well, how am I going to say this?
Am I going to say influencer? I'm going to say digital
creator? How am I going to make this
sound more professional or something that someone's going
to say and take and say she actually does something.
She's not just a trophy wife or she's not someone that's like,
you know, trying to make something out of nothing that
doesn't know me, right? It's like my elevator pitch.
How am I going to do versus I'm like, this is my friend Divya.
She's, you know, double board certified plastic surgeon.
And now she has her own platform talking about breast
reconstructive surgery and XYZ. It's much more, wow, that's
amazing versus me where it's like, that's great, that's so
cute that you give like tips on eyeliner.
Which is so I mean, it's infuriating to.
Me. I agree.
But I also again, like as
someone who's guilty of having to go through this lesson in
evolution of not really understanding what it was being
doing it now, realizing it, then going back and sort of
correcting my own misconceptions about about the platform and
about people. And then really firmly rooting
myself in this belief that you have to understand that what we
put out there is curated. Even my A Day in the Life or my
I'm recording something on a couch.
I have edited it. I have chosen the sound bites
that I want to put together. Person.
I always think about when families especially like family
vloggers, like someone has to be on the other side with the
camera. They probably set that up before
they decided to walk in at 3:00 AM from their flight.
So obviously it's curated. Obviously we say that, right.
I think people really don't understand that.
And so then they're, they just ascribe the totality of who you
are to whatever it is that you put out online.
And it just is. It's so.
Mind saving. I will say though, there is a
difference between using social media and not being exactly who
you are on there, right? And I think that's OK.
There are lots of people that use social media for a specific
purpose and they may come off as one way, but when you meet them
in person, you're like, wow, you are completely different than I
had expected. Like they could be super funny
or very serious and in in real life, they're the polar
opposite. I think I am and I think you
are. I very much am.
I believe I am. Like the person you see online
is the person you get. Yeah, I think on the.
Bridge, it's more yeah, yeah, it's additive.
I think that even with me, I'm almost like the extreme I'm
everything I say is controversial or I'm, you know,
it's it's witty or I'm being sarcastic or something like
that. But I'm actually there is a very
sanitized version of me Monday through.
Friday, I think we're a little opposite there.
Like I show the sanitized version and I almost keep the
more polarizing part of me to, you know, the inner circle.
Yeah, yeah. And I'm the opposite.
I, I thrive off of those other videos, but they're at the end
of the day, I'm also just like getting the kids to school,
figuring out who needs soccer cleats.
You know, that part of me also exists.
And I'm also just very tired all the time and all of that.
And it's, it's interesting. I was having a conversation with
someone very dear to me the other day and we were, we were
talking about, she was saying that a lot of her friends on the
Facebook physician groups, She was like, oh, you're really
popular on there, People really like you and you should join the
groups or you should do this or that.
And I for a long time, I've just decided that I wasn't going to
do Facebook groups just I have to cut myself off somewhere.
Otherwise I could be on all the things all the time.
And I what I told her was you have to dampen your highs but
also dampen your lows. So I think it's great that in
this moment, people think I'm funny and, and whatnot and they,
they love what I did last week. That could change like that
tomorrow. And so I just don't go crazy
about the fanfare when it happens.
Just like you can't really bring me down when it's a low.
And if I said something that didn't land well or that I
offended a bunch of people accidentally, you know, I have
to do what's right by me. I have to rectify whatever I
need to, but I just can't get caught up in it.
That's a fantastic lesson to learn and you learn that
quickly. And I mean, you have because
you've had to, because the amount of growth you've had in
such a short amount of time has opened you to that.
But I mean, it's such, it's interesting to see both young
and older creators experience that at the same time.
And it's, it's an eye opening thing because you realize it
really doesn't discriminate age at all.
You know what? I mean, the people are fickle
and that was my point was the people are fickle and I, I am
grateful for the love, don't get me wrong.
It's just I can't revel in it because it goes away.
It goes away, it can come back. And so all I can do is be
authentic and hope that the again that the totality of what
I present lands well with the right people who follow.
It but I think the reality though there too is that social
media and real life has blurred lines, right?
So yes, you want everybody to see the totality of who you are
and at the same time, like we are not one-dimensional people.
So it's this whole idea of because I present beauty and
lifestyle and maybe things that are a little bit more
heartwarming or surface level on the grid does not then make me a
superficial non political non. You know what I mean?
All the things and vice versa of.
Course calm these things about you and it's I have to get over
that part that part gets for and it's funny is when it's about
me, I seem to not care. But if anybody says anything
about friends or something like I, I.
Get there with the pitch, the Mama bearing you, you know, you
just get a little, yeah, territorial.
But I think back to your point about the the damned if you do,
damned if you don't. It kind of goes into play with
this whole idea that on social media, it is such a bizarre
reality because you are not only expected to have a hot take on
everything, but a hot take that is for that specific person
watching, right? So it's like I may have a hot
take on what's happening around the world right now, but if it
doesn't agree with the person that's watching me at that time,
all of a sudden it's Tuesday. You know what I mean?
So it's not like you can have your opinion.
It's no longer that. It's like they only want.
Your opinion if they agree with you?
And it's funny because this conversation that I was having
where we're talking about the Facebook groups, the next thing
that person had said, they had brought up a creator that they
felt like was pushing Russian manicures too much.
And they said what? You know, what's your take on
that? They're so bad for you and this
person's is pushing it left and right.
My response was, unless you're telling women that mammograms
are unsafe or you're telling people not to wear a sunblock,
I'm going to choose my battles because there's nobody out there
that I agree with 100%. I don't get manicures.
I haven't in a decade because I think in general, manicures may
be bad for you, but I also have other vices, right?
I do other things that people may look at that and say, well,
that's not good for you, why are you doing that?
So I can't sit here in my cloud of judgement and get upset
because a creator who otherwise has great content and decided to
share their Russian. Yeah.
And that's boundaries, right? You have to have the boundaries
and you have to set them because it's healthy.
It's. Healthy.
But my point to this person who I was talking to, which again is
someone who's dear to me, was well, gosh, are are you not
doing exactly what we talked about two seconds ago in judging
someone, in judging somebody about a Russian mannequin?
I mean, that's cool. It's like that's how you feel
about it. And we all do it right.
That's the thing, we all. Wanted to lead with my own
guilt. We all do it and and I think the
difference there too is like we can easily do it.
I'm going to use this example, but someone on that's on reality
TV, right? We can use, we can do that and
say, Oh, well, because they're there for our entertainment.
They are there as a character that we can easily say, Oh my
gosh, you were this and that. And did you see what she was
wearing? Did you see her hair?
It's horrible. But you forget that on social
media too, It's happening all the time, right?
And I mean, there's plenty of times where I think someone was
trying to send a. Story.
And like they were probably trying to send it to someone
else but they accidentally replied to me with their right.
Their hot. Tank and it was something that
obviously wasn't complimentary and I'm like, and I always reply
back and I actually don't let that slide, not in a way where
I'm being mean or rude. Like Oh my gosh, how dare you
say that? It's more like, hey, I don't
think you meant this for me. Totally fine.
It's your personal opinion. I just want you to know that I
am a real person that actually is monitoring my DMS and I
answer back and then they'll either come back with I'm so
sorry. That's so embarrassing.
But I think what that does is it humanizes the person behind the
little squares because I think that's where things are lost no
matter how old you are too. I also at a certain point
thought like, oh, you know, over 40 now, like everyone's mature.
We all most most of us have families and kids that we're
raising. We're trying to set these good.
Examples. Right, right.
I realized that fast and especially with everything like
how heated the world is, right? And it's so you have to be on
one side or the other on so many topics.
And I'm realizing that people do not, no matter how old you are,
have the same values or ideas of what I'm thinking.
Like, OK, would you talk to me this way or behave this way with
me if we were in an office setting?
And the answer is no. And it's funny because when I, I
will leave positive comments, like if I think someone has
great hair, I'm like, love it. You know, I, I just don't engage
with content I don't like. If I don't like it, I don't go
leave a comment about it. And I don't send people mean
messages out of the I've just never done that right.
I've never been that. You will do it if someone
instigates it with you. 100% Oh no, I will read them for filth.
I will shame you. OK, so see that.
Feeling like an. Idiot for I think that's look, I
think that is what adds the virality.
I think that's what adds the entertainment value of things.
And I think that that is I would say without social media, that
is who you are like I think you are to the core.
You're someone that's going to say, hey, I don't agree with
this and I'm going to like pin you down and I will break you
down until you understand why. And you do it beautifully
because. They have to come to me first,
right, right, right, right. And and so when it's my page
that's different, I'm responding to what comes my way.
But if you look, that's me as a creator, but me as a consumer of
social media, you're going to. I've just always whether before
I had this platform and now I I'm just not like I hated your
hair. What a terrible outfit.
You're ugly like I just that was never.
Like keep it moving, we're good. We don't need.
Your eyes because I always had just sort of like the baseline
IQ required to understand that I'm not going to engage with
content I don't like because the algorithm will feed it to me
more and it's so funny because you and I like all the same
things you know I'll tell you if you're.
Friends or dog because. Like the the like really
heartwarming, like lovely, you know, because that's what I
like. So my feed are all these like
dog accounts and just like heartwarming?
The baby. The baby things, of course,
because that's what I like, but it's amazing to me how many
people are not like that. They will send you rude messages
or they will leave rude comments and I'm always shocked by how
surprised they are that that I responded or that I hold them
accountable. For something that they came.
To they. Came to.
Me to do. Yeah.
But I will say, and this is different than that because I
think those people are almost lurking and looking for
something to actually attack because of something that they
are just going through, right. And they need something to
attack at that point. But like.
For me especially, I think maybe having a journalism background,
I will and I don't love doing this at all, but I will because
I do think that social media is unfortunately a place where most
people, especially the younger generations, that is what
they're using as a primary source of information, news,
everything. And a lot of times speaking with
confidence all of a sudden gets mistaken for.
Accuracy. Credibility and it's not
actually the case, but I think the biggest thing for me is
making sure that like my kids especially understand the
difference between that. So it's like how am I I think
for me it's like my North Star is like how I'm behaving is are
would my kids would I be proud if my kids saw how I'm behaving
online? Do you know what I mean?
And and I get that like I hear what you're saying so loud and
clear these people are coming to you and they're the ones that
are instigating the the the attack, right.
I think sorry, that was one point, but the two the second
point was I think because of my journalism background, I will
seek out the side that I don't want to see like I will seek out
the people that I absolutely don't agree with whatever
they're saying right. I'll be like, Oh my gosh, I
don't want to go on here, but I need to see what Candace Owens
is saying because I need to understand that what I'm saying
and what I believe actually is refuting what she's saying or
he's saying. No, and there's something.
But then because of that, I get so much fed that's not, you
know, what you want to see, which is so.
Hard Yeah, no, it really is. And I, I too also will like land
on Candace Owens's page. And I, I want to hear what
people are saying for sure, but it's, I'm not in the comments,
right? I'm not in Candace Owens
comments. Fighting with other people,
just. Not who I am or I'm not getting,
I'm just consuming the information she's putting out.
Does this pass my barometer of credibility?
Is this valid? You know what would be my
retort? Do I agree?
Do I disagree? And then I move on.
And it is amazing to me how many people don't get that.
And the they get so offended when I respond.
I'm trying to think of an example because there was one
recently someone who was mad that it was chewing gum in a
video and I actually am not a gum chewer, but I found it in my
kids backpack and he's not allowed to have the gum.
So of course in confiscating and I was like, Oh yeah, I want to
take a piece of gum. And it was like you, you need to
stop chewing gum in your videos. This was highly distracting.
I was unable to get through your stories and you need to rectify
this or like something right very.
I'm sorry that you didn't like the gum chewing.
I myself am not a gum chewer because I don't like it.
But if you had actually watched the stories I had, I was telling
you why I was chewing gum, which was this whole funny story about
finding out my kids backpack. Why do you feel entitled to me
creating content for you? Right.
I'm not a I'm not hired talent for you.
This is my platform. If you didn't like the stories,
just don't watch them, skip through them.
And and so my response was was simply that, right?
I don't make content specifically for you.
I explained why I was chewing gum in the video, but assuming I
was somebody who chewed gum every day, the audacity to think
that you can dictate how I make my content is really special.
I would think of think about. That is the entitlement that
people have and it's because we have that privilege to have a
platform. And so we've opened ourselves up
and then it's up to people, right?
I think that is why a lot of creators are so guarded with
what they share. Like I know so many beauty
creators that are have full-fledged like five children
and have a whole other life. But you would never know that
because all they share is obviously the 10 second
tutorials or the how to's, the get ready with me's, which then
also makes it hard to prove our point, which is that we are more
than one dimension. But this is where the whole like
the idea of workplace. And I know for you it's
different because you do have a second workplace, which is your
primary workplace. But this is like, this is my
workplace, you know? And so it's so hard for, for
people for. Because I'm like.
I'm like, this is my, I'm like, so when people come to me and
they're saying, why don't you have a take on this?
Or why don't you have a take on that?
I'm like, I actually do. I'm just the way I've kind of
tried to think about it is like if you were at work, a lot of
times people are told told not to talk about politics or
religion because it divides a rumor, right?
So for me, I understand that having a platform is a privilege
and with that comes responsibility.
But the way I think about it almost is that the grid is where
I show my work and stories is where I show literally how I
process the world, you know? So it's like, if you wanna see
what I'm doing and creating, go to my grid.
If you wanna see what I'm really thinking, go to my stories, you
know? And then once I say that to
people, they're kind of like, oh, OK, I get it.
Like you are a human person that cares about the world.
And I'm like, yeah, I know, I know.
Well, it's funny because when I, I had someone DM me saying I
don't remember exactly how it came about, but I think I, I had
been talking about how I think I should, I deserve to know where
creators stand. And this doesn't mean you need a
political platform. In fact, you should not, no one
should require that of you if that's not your platform, right?
If you're genres, comedy or beauty, you can do that.
But I think if you're going to sell things, people deserve to
know in general where you fall. And like you said in stories, as
I think where I discover that about people, so AI don't judge
somebody just based off their grid and B, if I if someone
they'll like send me someone's profile and they'll say, well,
this person never talks about anything.
You need to talk about them or hold them accountable.
I am not the accountability police.
You know, again, the content I make is if I feel someone has
made an egregious error and I've done the deep dive and I've
looked at all of their content over a period of time and you
know, they either said something frankly racist or then sure.
But I don't know these people. And if I haven't been following
them temporally over a period of time, I don't actually know what
they stand for. And I, I don't believe as vocal
as I am, I don't believe that anyone's required to tell
everybody where they stand on every issue.
And are people coming to you saying like, because you now
have a huge platform, you should be the person that's responsible
for doing that? Yeah, See, that's interesting to
me because half the time I'm like, well why don't you say
something And you know you even if it's twenty people that
follow you where's. Your.
Opinion exactly. Or like, say it freely and loud
into the rooftops, because that will have an impact at least for
maybe one or two people, you know?
But they won't. But also I and what really gets
annoyed is when and someone had sent me your profile and I said,
I actually have been following her for years.
And if I even take the the personal part out of it, the
fact that I know her. So therefore, I do know where
she falls on a lot of these things because we've had offline
conversations on her stories. She has reposted things and I
that's all I expect of people. It's like like a heart emoji or
like a broken heart, you know, like just throw me a little bone
of like, OK, I know that you're on the right side of history,
but I don't expect people to because, you know, if you're
watching HGTV, that's for a certain type of entertainment.
If you're watching CNN, that's a different right.
So if you are the MTV creator, like people can't expect you to
have HDTV content. But I do think part of our
responsibility is, is to, you know, spread the good word and
and share the good word. But also one thing I say all the
times, I'm not a journalist, they'll come at me and say you
supported this, but I didn't see you support that.
I said, well, I did actually. It was in my stories.
You missed it. But I love how instead of
saying, hey, how do you feel about this?
In which case I won't come off strong.
I'm not going to attack you. It's accusatory.
I'm not going to be snarky. I'll say, oh, this is how I feel
about it. If you come on and say, well,
you never talked about this, but you, no, you don't know my
friend. And just like you're not an
investigative journalist and you didn't do your due diligence,
I'm also not a journalist. But that's the thing too, right?
Social media is so reactive. It rewards that the
reactiveness, which can be great in times, of course, for
entertainment value. It's there and it's it's great.
And especially for Someone Like You who can gather a lot of
thoughts in a short amount of time and also be able to
articulate those thoughts very cohesively and with the, you
know, the resources to say, Hey, this backs me up.
I've done the research, I've done that like it's awesome.
Sometimes you look at your stuff.
I'm like, how did you have time to create this video where you
are going through like not only the video, but documents are
this and that. And it's great, right?
But I think for a lot of people, they are forming judgments and
they're being way too reactive because they're seeing one thing
and they're like, see, that's horrible.
You missed this. You missed.
That. Exactly.
And it's like, no, no, that's not how this works.
Like you are too reactive versus like taking the time to
sometimes actually look at other things.
It could, it could be as simple as like looking up, you know,
the hashtag of whatever topic you're looking at and then being
able to see it's a simple thing. But these this is what we've
lost. We have lost the art of proper
debate conversation and also like researching.
There are No 2, two or three sides to stories anymore.
People don't believe that. They literally think.
And it scares me like, and if there's one thing like
especially I do feel like I try and talk about this more and
more on my platform, but like for me, my responsibility as a
mom now is as a parent more so is that I just want my kids to
be able to understand the difference one between speaking
with confidence and authority. Even if you don't have the
degree or the pedigree to talk about certain things like that
doesn't make it factual. And then also like, be curious,
be curious if you are listening to something or someone say
something and you agree with it or you don't, make sure that you
don't just stop there, but you're going and finding out
more. Ask the questions either to that
person or to someone else and be like, does this make sense?
Or should I be looking it up in a book?
I don't know, you know what I mean?
Things like that. Whatever they do now, you know.
And it's amazing how much more of my own eyes have been opened
now that I'm on the other side of it than even how I was
engaging with the platform, you know, four years ago, Right?
Right. So I, I get it in one sense.
I'm like, well, you know, I'm guilty of some of this too.
And I've, I've learned and I've grown from it.
And now I'm very, I'm fiercely protective of actually a lot of
creators that people would even say on paper that you would
think that I would disagree with or that I may not like or
follow. When people come to me
criticizing them, I defend them. Yeah, more often than not, I
would say 99% of the time I'll say that's.
Because you have that self-awareness and you also have
that ability. You you know who you are, You
know what I mean? And I think that's so important
because you can take accountability.
If someone comes at you and says like, oh, well, this was wrong
or yeah, you know, yeah, this is actually what that meant.
You have no problem saying you're right.
I. Was wrong, sorry.
Right delivery OK, should know. Let's move on, right?
Whereas other people I think are so headstrong and just like,
Nope, this is it and I'm going to die on the sword, you know?
And it's like it's, it's really hard because it just, it just
repeats that cycle so badly, you know?
But I think you, it really, you really learn a lot about
people's character in this. And one of the things that I
loved about your character is from the day we've met, you've
always been so supportive. So kindly, if there's anything I
can do for you, if there's anyone I can connect you with,
like let me know how I can help. Which you had zero reason to.
I mean, I was just another person crossing your path,
right? So there was quite literally was
no reason ever to, to want to reach out or be helpful.
And you genuinely were. And that to me speaks just
incredible volumes about your character.
Also, you were so funny. There was that too.
But I, it's funny because again, especially since my account has
changed so much, not everybody is like that.
And there are a lot of people who didn't give me the time of
day in a room. Not that I cared because again,
I have, I stand on my own confidence of who I am outside
of this world. I don't need any of this.
But now all of a sudden they're reaching out.
You don't have questions, want this or want that or are
offering something or another. And it's an interesting, it's
not really a site of medicine that I interact with.
It doesn't exist in in the way that I am a doctor, but it
exists here. And I just want to know, like,
how have you stayed a good person?
Oh gosh, I think that that's one of those things that I think
from the beginning, I swear to myself, And I think this also
comes generationally, but like we grew up in a time where
especially there was that token mentality, right?
There's only one Indian person, there's only one person of your
background that can be doing something as unique as being on
TV. The sort of scarcity principle.
Right, exactly. The scarcity mindset was very
real and it still is there to this day, you know, in certain
things. But one of the things I promised
myself, and again, I think this has further been instilled in me
after having children, especially a daughter, is like,
I pride myself in saying like I am only here to push the culture
forward. You know, like I totally do
believe that there's room for everybody and that if someone
else is getting those accolades, that is fantastic.
Like let the sun shine on them right now.
It will be my turn or whoever's turn at a later time.
And I think you do find your purpose.
It pivots, it can pivot. Like I may have wanted to do one
thing and then it pivoted into something else.
But like, it's what you make of it.
You know what I mean? But I think it has been very
true about. I've been disappointed when I've
met people that I admire and yeah, I'm like, wow, you really
aren't. You don't walk the walk, you
know, you talk and. That is what I'm seeing.
I'm not going to mention names, but there have been people that
I've now interacted with. I'm surprised because the
platform tells such a story and the interaction tells a very
different story. And and I'm sort of flipping the
script of what we were talking about before.
Now it's like I thought the best of them and I'm realizing off
camera, perhaps that isn't authentic or the version I
interacted with wasn't authentic to that message.
And I I mean, for anyone who knows you, we can all agree
everybody has an opinion about everyone.
You are one person that is ubiquitously loved by all.
I mean truly, truly. And if you look at your network
and sheer number of important people that will support you,
that that care about you, that adore you, I mean, it speaks
about that is that doesn't happen overnight.
That's based on decades of being a good person, right?
So that's how that is curated. And I acknowledge that and I see
that, but I'm also seeing the other side.
And it is, it's scary. No, I.
Honestly would say you take a mental note of it, you keep a
mental tab and you move on. You know, cuz look, I do totally
also believe that karma's there. What's going to happen to you is
going to happen to you. I also believe that you helping
someone, like let's say you help someone and they didn't
reciprocate or you never do things with the idea of
reciprocation. But let's just say they did you
wrong, right? Like, let's say you help someone
and they did you wrong. They did you dirty, and you're
like, all right, I see. There's nothing.
Yeah, there's no, there's no wasted energy on that.
I did what I was going to do. No matter if you showed me you
being an amazing person or the person that sucks.
Yeah. That, that, that is you, you
know, because at the end of the day, I believe that it's going
to come back in twofold for me in a great way, or something's
going to help. Well, I feel like Kana's going
to take care of it, but also I I'm a bit, I love a good
redemption arc. I know what I mean.
I really do. I, and I think that's one of the
reasons I like long form content is because you can get into the
nitty gritty about things like this.
But there have been people where I felt like I may be supported
or did something and in return I didn't get that same energy.
And this is a mature, like this is the more mature version of
me. Me in my 20s and probably even
most of my 30s would not have done this.
I would have been like once I've scored.
Like you are. You're done.
You're on that list. But now I find so much value in
kind of going back and if I see them again, still being kind,
still being nice. I'm learning from, from
wonderful examples like you of what that can look like.
But I, I think that I like to give credit to the redemption
arc and I've seen it, I've seen it play out.
I also do think, like, I think there's a time in our lives
where we think this is the decade we should.
We're too grown to be making mistakes like this, right?
And that could happen in our late 20s and it can happen in
our 30s. And I've had friendships where I
have seen the lowest of lows and we've come back even stronger.
And I will say you need those moments of growth sometimes.
Sometimes they're just not meant to be, right?
But I do think that when you do have those realizations of
either where you're like, I don't like the person you're
showing me to be or vice versa, if you come through those
moments, you actually see so much growth that makes you that
much more of a, yeah, better person that is able to
acknowledge like, this is how I need to handle this stuff.
And also like it happens at any decade.
I still, we're still growing, right?
There's probably, especially with this journey that you're
going on right now, like where you are seeing so much so
quickly. And so lots of people come out
of the woodwork and they're just like Divya, Divya, Divya.
You have to be so guarded, but you're probably learning too and
figuring out like, oh gosh, you know, would I be doing the same
thing if I were in their position?
I feel like I, I constantly am doing that.
Like I might some like not in the terms I'm saying this wrong,
but like, let's say someone all of a sudden becomes really
popular overnight, right? And all of a sudden they've gone
viral and I'm like I didn't know who they were but I had no idea
because maybe they were buried in my DMS.
But I went to their page and I was like Oh my God they're so
funny this and that. And then I look at the DMS I'm
like Oh my gosh they DM me like 3 years ago and I had no idea.
It shows on red like I never even knew that.
And so now I'm going to reply back to.
It's not. But it's something that like,
gosh, had you would you have noticed me had I not had this
moment of virality, I. Thought I actually, I totally
understand like with notoriety, I'm going to be on more people's
radars and that's fine. Like, I don't there's actually
been, it's actually funny how many people have reached out and
they said, oh, my God, I love your content.
Oh, I didn't realize you had messaged me for the Avara event
last year. And I truly don't think anything
of it. But I think if I had an
interaction with you in the past, we met face to face.
We had a conversation and there was very specific version of you
that came out. And now it's a very different
version of you. I'm aware.
I'm something about me. Yeah.
At this age. You should be as you are.
Aware of that and I, you know this about me, but I just like
if I don't like you, if I can't support you, I don't care who
you are, there's nothing you're going to get there's no invite
list you're going to put me on. There's no in event that I think
I'm going to be invited to that will draw out of me a
disingenuous response. I cannot.
It's like a, it's actually. That's a good though magic.
Flaw like I can't kiss up to anybody for the greater good of
anything. I don't know how to do it.
My brain doesn't work that way. That's good.
And so there I have friends who are even like, well, maybe if
you didn't say this, and this is just so and so.
So like I was like, I really don't care.
Like I don't, I don't need to be invited to that or I don't need
to be a part of that. If I can't support the person
behind it, like I just, I cannot do it.
I'm the wrong person to represent that.
And I it's so because I've had that like part of me that again,
part of that probably should be shit.
I need to get over myself. And that's fine.
But I just because of that, when I see people who are who show me
such different sides of themselves based on the only
delta being maybe my notoriety, then I start, I'm like so
hypersensitive to it. I think there's also categories
where, and I say this only because I feel like I can get in
that mental state too, where I'm like, well, you showed me your
true colors. So that's it.
And I do think that sometimes in this space, especially with
social media, sometimes it, it is your workplace, right?
And it is your workplace. So you have to in a way, play
the game a little bit where it's like, we can be cool on this
level. But I know who you are.
You've shown me who you are really.
Like I would never call you. You're not my lifeline.
You're not someone that's going to be in my inner circle.
But hey, if I need you for something that's going to help
with this, you know, platform and stuff like, I don't think
that that's that's a bad thing. You know what I mean?
No. It's not, you're also like
fundamentally a better person than I am, so that helps.
But I, yes, I, I definitely agree with that.
And I think it all, what's interesting for me is that
because I wasn't sort of born in this world and I have this whole
life outside of it. That's in a way like you have to
be different as a doctor if you are.
And so it's like you can't. Those are very different parts
of my brain that are activating. So much of this is foreign to
me, and so I don't necessarily navigate it well or correctly,
because so much of my formed adult existence is based on this
other part of my life, which is that I'm a surgeon.
Well, so let me ask you this, do you find that to be something
hard? Like does your husband or who's
the person that you go to that is like you're grounding my
husband, OK. And so you'll be like, was that
OK? Are you ever like that?
Or are you so sure and like Nope, that was fine?
Or do you ever second guess yourself?
Like should I not have I've done that or should I have done?
That I've never second guessed myself because I have.
I like to look at everything like bird's eye view.
And in my life, I think most would argue that I have led
myself to a lot of success professionally and personally.
And a lot of those moments were born out of mistakes that I
made. So I don't, I don't think that,
but my husband will. I'll tell you the Kelly Dodd
thing I wasn't going to respond to.
The initial to any of it, any of these, the ones.
Yes, because we were leaving for a trip to Mexico.
The flight was at 8. AMI hadn't packed.
I had to wake up at 3:30 in the morning to finish my operative
reports pack for five people to go to Mexico.
And Ravi that night when all the racist videos were coming out,
he's like, hey, you got it. And I like, snapped at him.
I was like, I don't want to see it.
I don't have time for this right now.
Like, you know where the goggles are, Like are we had a sunblock,
You know, I was just in that. And.
So he obviously is a wonderful husband and knows me and you
like OK that this is not the time to approach them about
this. But he screen captured
everything. And the next morning he comes in
my room at like again, 3:30 in the morning.
He's like, I know that you don't want to do this.
And I know I just she was such a nobody to me.
I truly didn't even know who she was that I was like, why would I
respond to this? This is this is silly.
And, and he just said he goes, I know who you are and I know how
you are. And this would be so funny.
And just, he's like just the things that you're saying to me.
Well, you just put it on a camera and I'll edit it for you.
Like just record it because he's like, this is so funny.
This is gold. He's like, he would show it to
me. And I was like, well, and I
would say the very things that ended up in the video.
And I made the video and I and I posted it literally I posted as
a two-part thing as a flight was taking off and I turn off my
phone and I landed and it was like, what just happened?
This is insanity. And Ravi's like I told you, I
told you. And he had said he was, this is
the moment that you're going to go viral for.
And I'd had many viral moments, but nothing with this magnitude,
right? And he's still, he's like, I was
right. I was right.
So Ravi's the actual mastermind behind Divya's success.
Literally in more ways than one. 100% so he also is able to pull
me out of my people I think would find this hard to believe.
I'm actually very introverted at the end of the day.
Like I don't like to leave my house.
I say no to most events I. Believe that I think that
there's like I think you see that in a lot of people that are
very vocal and that user platform quite a bit they don't
it's like you're mentally fatigued do you know what I mean
and so I just. Love.
I would say I have to be a castle on the hill like I want
to be by myself. I have a separate content phone
that I will turn off, put away. And on my actual phone, I don't
even have Tiktok. I don't have Instagram, I don't
have those apps on my real phone that I use for.
And how are you so? I will engage in for 30 minutes.
After I post something on my content phone I will post for.
I will engage heavily for 30 minutes and then I'm off and I'm
off. But I in that I'm quite
efficient and I just I say what I think.
So you. Are efficient there is like your
clap back is already clapping it's.
Already And I will do it and then I'll put the phone away and
I literally don't have these apps on my work phone, which is
my my real phone, like the one that my friends called me on and
whatnot. And I actually just re
downloaded Instagram. So for the for the podcast
aspect, because I've been loading my own videos, Ravi does
help me edit he never wanted. Which is great.
Ravi helps me edit a lot. But back to your question,
because Ravi is so deep in understanding my relationships
with people, he will definitely give me his commentary of, you
know, maybe you shouldn't have been so harsh on this person.
Did you think about how that may affect XY and Z?
But my response to him has always been, if all of this went
away tomorrow, I would be totally fine and happy, right?
And so I just, if I have to engage with this platform in a
way that doesn't do right by me, I won't enjoy it.
And therefore I can't do that. So if I'm going to go on this
ride and if I'm going to do the things, then it has to be on my
terms because I won't be, I won't feel good about it.
I won't enjoy it. I won't like it if I can't be
sarcastic or if I can't clap back to the haters.
Like I enjoy that. Yeah, judge me all you want, but
that is something that I, I enjoy showing people to mirror
sometimes. Like I I have no problem with
that. But yeah, I, I will for 30
minutes after something's posted, I will engage.
And I in the morning, I give myself about 15 to 20 minutes
and then before I go to bed, 15 to 20 minutes and I will power
through. And I have a team, too.
Yeah, the team helps and it's funny because they'll they'll
say like we can't, we can't execute this the same way that
like the words that you would have chosen.
So there's some things that they can help with and some things
that they can't help with. But there's a team and there's,
there's a lot of people behind it and I choose how I'm going to
engage with it. And I can't, I can't change that
because I will. I won't enjoy biting my tongue
about something or someone that I feel strongly about if if I'm
doing it for the sake of like placating something for the
future or for some future, if I'm worried about some future
collaboration. Or do I just, it's not me.
No, I know and I know and you've made it very clear like that's
not what you're using social media for anyways.
That's. It's a great part.
When it makes sense, I'll take advantage of it, but I it's not.
It's not. I remember when we when you
first started Avara 2, you were asking like, is the person like
being more controversial or having a, an opinion?
Is that something that you would, you questioned yourself?
Like is this something that's good for Avara like branding
wise now seeing what you know with everything that's happened?
I mean, I would say even up until the virality, like the
intense virality, would you still say and after, would you
say that you would be exactly who you are now?
Yes, I would and I'll it's funny 'cause I have a podcast episode
coming up about this with another brand founder who is
very vocal and her and I are particularly vocal for being
brand founders. I mean, I think we are outside
of the norm or the mean for for what brand founders are willing
to double down on publicly. And the point that I would love
to make with that podcast is both of us, you know, if you
just look at the objective metrics of our brands, they're
doing very well. And her brand is much bigger
than mine. And I think it speaks to the
fact that more than anything, people want to know who you are.
They want to know, they want to know what they're supporting,
who they're giving their money to.
And even if they disagree with you, there's a respect that they
have for you for being open about where you stand on things.
Sure, Have I maybe lost customers who disagree with
certain political things? Sure.
But that is a very small percentage to what I would say
has grown the brand because they love what I stand for or what I
say. And they're actually quite
forgiving. I mean, we've talked about the
trolls for sure, but I will say I get far more messages that are
I didn't love the way you did that or what you said about
that, but I still respect you for doing it or I right, still
love your content. You know, and I I don't it's not
like I lash back at everybody who comes who says something.
Most of the time they've come at me with kindness and you know, I
didn't really love that. But overall I think XY.
And Z mature. Like we can agree to disagree on
how it was delivered, but I agree with your point.
Yeah, 100. Percent like a mature way to do
it, absolutely. But wait, so now question is, is
that the Brown founder that you're going to be doing this
with? Are they in retail?
Like, are they OK? They are because I think in
retail. The one of the biggest things
I've heard, and obviously I'm not a Brown founder, but is that
those they're kind of their hands are tied sometimes with
certain things because of the retailer saying like you can't
speak on certain things. I think that that is more of an
excuse than a reality. I am.
I'm strictly ECOM DTC right now. But I mean, I'm gonna ask her
these questions. Yeah, I I was gonna pull the
audience first and say, what are all these your burning questions
for this founder because she's so vocal.
She's such a successful brand and I think it really challenges
the notion that you have to be sort of middle, middle of the
road, not speak out. I think the times are changing.
I think more and more of, in fact, you know this about me, I
don't know how many people do. The reason I really hard
launched my Instagram was because it was launching a Vara.
And the feedback that I got from my marketing team was people
want to know the founder. So if you're going to have a
brand in this era, you're going to launch in 2025, which is when
I launched, you need to have a page where people can find their
social proof. They want to believe in the
company. They're going to need to believe
in you. So get to it.
And that's when I put myself out there and I didn't know how to
do it without being authentically me.
So I went into it like, if I fail, I fail, but at least I
failed doing it the way that felt really authentic to me.
And if I succeed, great. I'd love to challenge the notion
that you have to be a sanitized version of yourself to be a
brand founder. That's great.
Well, can't wait to hear that episode.
So one thing I really want to ask you about, and you don't
have to talk about this if you don't want to, because I know we
hold our family very close, is your husband who I've had the
pleasure of meeting outside, you know, just socially.
And he's such a hype man in general.
He has the best personality, but he's so, so in love with you and
so supportive. And, you know, we talked about
Ravi briefly, but I have the absolute like luck to also be
married to somebody who is just so proud of who I am so
supportive. And it I truly couldn't do any
of this without him. And you are married to somebody
who I think is just again, another pinnacle example of what
a husband is. And because we have a lot of a
lot of people who follow us that are also younger, that are kind
of navigating relationships, finding the man of their dreams,
the woman of their dreams. I want I want your thoughts on
your guys's relationship, how you knew he was the 1:00 and
you're advice and thoughts on like this concept of settling
versus not settling, being too picky.
Because let me tell you, the Love is Blind finale had me all.
I didn't watch the season or even the whole finale, but I saw
the clips of it. I don't watch it I.
Didn't watch it. I watched previous seasons this
I was like very invested in certain clips, but it was just
like men now where are you at men?
And you see so many high functioning women and I have a
lot of, you know, ladies in my life that are amazing and
incredible and single. And I just I'm trying to figure
it out here. What is what is going on?
So as someone who I know really hasn't figured out in that
department, what do you want to say?
Gosh, I would say, I mean, I've been with you for so long, but I
will say he's one of those people that I don't, I don't
know what I did in my former lives, but I definitely did
something well in that area because I I met him and I knew
he was the one, You know, there was something like literally of
souls, 2 souls, me and you're like, this is my person.
That was my person. You know, he's my lobster.
But it was, I think the biggest thing with especially meeting at
such a young age and then going through so many life changes
together, I think the biggest thing is like, who shows up for
you when you need to be the one in the focus?
Like you focus needs to be on you, is that person going to be
OK taking a back seat and being your support and vice versa,
right. And we've we've done that so
much. And I'm sure you guys have done
this. I know it's different because
you guys are both in medicine, but like with both viral and I,
when he decided like he was going to stop consulting and go
full force with a startup, it was like, OK, I've got a focus
and I can do This is why I kind of chose being in social media
and like left producing in that world.
But it was OK, I'm going to do that and I'm going to do it
simultaneously. But but behind the scenes, like
I'm there, I'm not going to be traveling, I'm not going to be
doing things that he can't do right now and show up for right.
And then I think the biggest thing too, that I think a lot of
times this is where the social media thing blurs the lines of
reality. Like, not everyone's watching,
right all the time. And we know that.
But behind closed doors, like no one else is there except for you
too. So who is there?
Who is that person for you that makes you feel like I see you,
you see me? You got my back in everything
and anything at my worst, at my best.
And then that's the person that if you are lucky enough to come
across that person, like that's the person you hold on to.
And there's a chemistry also, like, right, This is the thing
too. I have so many friends that are
like in that beginning stage of like love and romance.
And it's like the chemistry and it's like, dude, like that's
just after like 25 years, but you still look at that person
with such admiration and love. The reason you love them
evolves, right? I mean, of course I loved my
husband and thought he was such a cutie and handsome and had all
that, you know, all of that was great in there.
But now, 13 years later, of course it's the way in which he
supports me quietly, that is so. Sexy.
And so like, that's the chemistry.
Of course, right. And so there's that.
But I, I get messages from women.
They're like, you're so well supported.
Your family seems great. Your husband seems great.
You know, I'm having this problem with my relationship or
that problem with my relationship.
And I think back, because I don't think people know this
about Ravi and I, but he proposed to me after a month and
we got married in six. Months.
Oh my gosh. Which is wild because I am not
that person. And frankly, if that happened to
my kids, I, I don't know that I would like, yeah, behind that,
right? So it was a fluke thing, but I
just knew in my soul, like in every bone in my body.
Wow. He was the one who was going to
see me through all of this craziness that I knew was
coming. I already knew myself.
I was like, I got to do this and this and this and someone's got
to be there for it. But I think you're right, that
reciprocal you, you said it better.
I can't even paraphrase it well, but it that reciprocal ability
to show up for someone when you you're, you don't have to be the
spotlight 100% of the time. It goes back and forth.
The given to you're. Almost proud of it, right?
It's almost like you wear it with such pride, like I when I
had to stay home and I'd like, no, I actually can't say it's
just because I'm home. I'm holding down the Fort
because my man is doing this or my partner, right?
And same with him. He's like, I can't do this
because Amy's doing this. And I love because he will
unabashedly like sometimes if there's comments, like the
craziest comments that sometimes I would get, especially in the
beginning, you're so lucky your husband lets you do this.
I'm like, what are you doing that lets me do this?
But he'd be like, this is such bullshit, like you have no idea
how much you bring to to our family, to life, to my life like
because of you, you serve as inspiration for me to do
everything I've been. You know what I mean?
All the the fun and heartwarming stuff that we go through as
couples. But like that is, that's it.
Like finding your best friend and then you know.
I I think that's it to the reciprocal ability.
It has to go both ways to show up for each other even when the
spotlight is not on you. I think is such an A critical
part. Of 100%.
OK, I'm going to end on this and this is just me being like petty
and snarky, but you know, it's how we're going to end.
Oh no, I'm scared. No, no, don't be.
Have you, I'm sure early on before your, you know, obviously
there was growth to your profile and who you are now is not who
you were in the beginning of all of this.
I'm sure there were people who rolled their eyes or like, I
heard I'm he's doing social media.
I'm he's doing this. Did you see her post about
whatever all the hateful ladies and men sometimes and their
comments? Did it ever get back to you and
have you interacted with them again recently?
And how did that go? I think so, yeah, definitely.
And honestly, I don't. I love it.
For me, it's something that's like, Oh my God, it's so great.
You want to see how I'm doing. I mean, I'm obviously like,
behind closed doors to my friends.
Like, yeah, she's really going to like my hair in person.
You know, she made fun of my extensions and look at her
wanting to know where I got them from.
Now she wants a discount card. I mean, I think I approached
most of this stuff with humor. And I almost also, I feel like I
approached a lot of this with grace, like I think.
That people. Meaning not grace like
gracefully, I give people grace. I show people out of grace
because just like from how you started the podcast, which is
that you realize that we all pass judgement so quickly and
I'm guilty of it too. And so they probably, I always
say I give people the benefit of the doubt.
I know you pass judgement on me quickly because I know that now
that you've met me in person, you probably think.
I'm the you're such a good person, I'll rub it in every
time. OK, that's it for this episode
of Insight Thoughts Out Loud. Can't wait to talk to you guys
next time.