1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:05,160 Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, 2 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:10,800 good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times. 3 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:18,240 Join me and Ben today as we talk about woke ISM and what the fuck 4 00:00:18,240 --> 00:00:21,080 is going on in today's world. Oh God. 5 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:24,360 Yeah, yeah, here we go. Let's let's let's just dig 6 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:30,320 straight into this subject which seems to be people seem to titty 7 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:34,560 tatter around even talking about this because it might upset 8 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:37,920 someone. Yeah, I'm, I'm really wanting to 9 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:42,640 talk about this because I've been on a, a silent study period 10 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:44,360 around this. I've actually, it's something I, 11 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:47,320 I, I didn't realize I cared so much about until I started 12 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:53,320 consuming some of the opinions about woke ISM what's happening. 13 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,960 And it was actually just quite, it was quite an innocent 14 00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:00,480 introduction when I realized I was starting to really dislike a 15 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:02,520 lot of the things I watched on Disney. 16 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:07,040 And this is, this is something that I really, I love Disney, by 17 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:08,760 the way. So for those guys listening, if 18 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:10,680 you like Star Wars, you'd like Marvel. 19 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:15,800 If you like the the the Disney stories of of of the past and 20 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:19,400 the whole concept of Disney. I actually love Disney and what 21 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:23,200 I've noticed is I have become more and more disengaged with 22 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:27,120 the stories about Disney and I borderline pissed me off some of 23 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:29,400 them. Like why are they choosing to 24 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:33,440 choose a different coloured skin for a lead role? 25 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:36,880 Like why are they trying to feminize some of the really 26 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:42,760 important stories in a a time tested beautiful timepiece of a 27 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:45,240 story? And what is going on behind 28 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:47,080 this? And what I want to make sure 29 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:49,640 that happens as we wade through this conversation, Pete, is that 30 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:53,760 I'm not racist. I'm not sexist, not homophobic. 31 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:58,520 I believe that there that the way that we are approaching 32 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:03,000 equality is not going well. I don't think it's actually 33 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:05,640 improving equality. I don't think woke ISM is 34 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:08,360 working. And I think that there's so many 35 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,160 people that are not willing to have this conversation because 36 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:14,920 the backlash is so big, because people are so worried about 37 00:02:14,920 --> 00:02:19,160 taking a stand for something like free speech, like being 38 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:21,360 able to speak your mind and being open about things. 39 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:25,160 And one of the biggest problems I think I'm seeing is that 40 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:27,560 there's a huge oppression of men. 41 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:29,880 And like, specifically, you know, Elon Musk has sent you 42 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:32,360 that video, Pete. Elon Musk has taken a stand for 43 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:35,960 this. And it's like Disney itself is 44 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:41,880 being widely like known to discriminate against white men. 45 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:45,640 They're not casting white men. They are not hiring white men. 46 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:47,080 There's not enough white men in their thing. 47 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:50,640 And it's like the oppression of men is not going to drive 48 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:54,680 equality for women. And what I want to talk about in 49 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:56,560 this conversation and have a, you know, a really good 50 00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:00,280 conversation about and bring you the listener, a good, a good 51 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:03,680 conversation about is, is what is causing this problem? 52 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:06,840 What, what is causing the problem where people are turning 53 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:11,760 to woke ISM to try and build equality, diversity, inclusion, 54 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:15,280 and what could be a better way. So that's what that's what my 55 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:19,120 desire for this conversation is. Who do you think is turning to 56 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:22,080 woke ISM? So I think Hollywood, you know, 57 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:25,960 Hollywood is has such huge influential power. 58 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:31,080 Like if you look at Hollywood, Hollywood has way more influence 59 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:34,560 than we give it credit for. We watch and consume movies, 60 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:39,080 films, TV shows from from Netflix, from Hollywood, from 61 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:42,080 like, like film and media all the time. 62 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:47,200 And I think what's happening is that men have had such a good 63 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:50,200 ride for such a long time in, you know, pre, you know, the 64 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:55,120 patriarchy and was in place for such a long time. 65 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:59,440 But now the modern man is punished for the the crimes of 66 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:03,800 the patriarchy. So the men having such a, a leg 67 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:08,000 up over women for such a long time in the, a modern man is 68 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,360 being punished for that. We are literally paying the 69 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:13,400 price for that. And I think that so many women, 70 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:16,800 and this is what I think's happening, is that the only way 71 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:19,680 to drive equality is actually to oppress men. 72 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:21,920 And it's not the way forward. It's really not the way 73 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:23,280 forwards. And I, I'm really passionate 74 00:04:23,280 --> 00:04:24,440 about this. I've got two daughters. 75 00:04:24,840 --> 00:04:28,840 I'm a modern man. I just want, I want to create 76 00:04:28,840 --> 00:04:33,560 equality in my household, in my communities and in in the world. 77 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:37,480 But I actually believe, this is my belief about this is that 78 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:41,160 equality is actually going to be achieved through strong men. 79 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:44,120 It's building strong men. And that's what, you know, 80 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:46,360 obviously Awake Man is a big, big advocate for. 81 00:04:46,840 --> 00:04:50,680 And I think that it's a really delicate topic because so many 82 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:53,920 people get so freaking offended when you start wading into like 83 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:55,680 a pragmatic discussion around it. 84 00:04:56,760 --> 00:05:02,960 Yeah and yeah, for sure. But the you talk about strong 85 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:05,440 men. What's the root cause of not 86 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:09,840 having strong men so. You said at the start, you know, 87 00:05:09,840 --> 00:05:14,240 you said at the start, strong, sorry, hard times create 88 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:19,400 strongman and then strongman create easy times, which we're 89 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:22,720 in right now. We are in like I know we've got 90 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:25,640 obviously the warring Ukraine. We've got things going on in the 91 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:28,800 world that are difficult and not hard, but we're actually in the 92 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:32,480 longest time of global peace that has ever been like. 93 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,400 So it's historically, if you look back over all the world 94 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:37,320 world wars that I've ever been where there's been mass 95 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:41,600 conflict, there's a pattern and it's actually in 2020, we were 96 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:43,680 due a war. Actually, we got a war, but it 97 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:46,280 was a different kind of war. It was a, it was a actually, it 98 00:05:46,280 --> 00:05:49,120 was COVID. And I was speaking to one of my 99 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:51,840 clients who's a very intelligent chap, sat on the bike one day 100 00:05:51,840 --> 00:05:53,680 and he said, you know, we're actually in the one of the 101 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:56,320 longest standing times for peace. 102 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:59,760 We've actually had a really peaceful, you know, multiple 103 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:01,960 years. This is not, this is unfamiliar 104 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:06,160 territory for humans for, for, for our, you know, communities 105 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:09,720 and all that sort of stuff. So we're actually in easy times. 106 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:13,160 And if you look at the UK especially, it's like there's so 107 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:17,440 little, you know, there's so, so much support. 108 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:21,840 There's so much, there's so many safety Nets for people that are 109 00:06:21,840 --> 00:06:23,400 not willing to do the hard things. 110 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,400 It's created such a fragile economy. 111 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:29,280 It's created fragile people, fragile economy. 112 00:06:29,840 --> 00:06:34,440 And I think what The thing is, is that the problem I'm seeing 113 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:37,960 with strong men is that there's so many guys that have just not 114 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:41,320 been modelled how to be a strong man. 115 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:45,880 Yeah, yeah. They've not gone through. 116 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:50,320 There's actually kind of what you're saying there is that many 117 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:56,560 guys are still boys. 100% I, I think you, you've nailed it. 118 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:01,000 I think like I was bought by my mum primarily. 119 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:04,520 And we've talked about this in the absent father episode. 120 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:07,000 I love my dad. I didn't spend a lot of time 121 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:11,160 with my dad because of the, the, the, the the make up of our 122 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:14,840 family. And I was sold a story about my 123 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:17,880 dad by my mum. So I was very feminized, young 124 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:20,880 man led and, you know, raised by my mum. 125 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:28,600 And I think this led to me having to learn so much about 126 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:32,000 being a great man from mentors, from coaches, from other men, 127 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:38,040 and obviously being part of AMP that literally like next to my 128 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:40,960 development in that area, a lot of men have never had that 129 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:42,880 masculine role model. Like, you know, you could 130 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:45,200 probably speak to this as well, Pete, you know what you've found 131 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:48,000 as well. But I think that it's like so 132 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:52,480 many young boys have not spent good quality time with either 133 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:55,840 father or be the father who is a good, strong man. 134 00:07:56,600 --> 00:08:00,000 And that's what's missing. Like this is what this is. 135 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:01,840 And this is what I think the thread for the whole 136 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:06,520 conversation is going to be is that there's so little strong 137 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:08,680 male leadership in so many places. 138 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:11,720 And this is where and I watched. So I just want to give you a bit 139 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:13,960 of context. I watched the documentary called 140 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:17,240 What is a Woman? And it's a really good 141 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:20,240 documentary. Matt Walsh, he's a really good 142 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:24,040 reporter, journalist, very funny, really funny. 143 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:29,080 And I was looking at all the commonalities amongst and he 144 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:31,200 talks about this and when he actually reflected on the 145 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:35,520 documentary, the one commonality in all of the problems where 146 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:37,440 they, they would go into a home where there was like either a 147 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:41,720 person or a kid. A kid of seven years old having 148 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:45,120 gender identity crisis like this is a 7 year old. 149 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:47,960 What was the one commonality? No masculine. 150 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:51,600 Absent Father. The father was either sat in the 151 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:53,920 room not saying anything, just shaking his head. 152 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:56,320 He was emotionally vacant, or he was there. 153 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:59,640 He wasn't there at all. I think this is the problem. 154 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:01,800 This is the problem. And I kind of like. 155 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:04,600 So, you know, I might have thrown in quite a few different 156 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:08,480 concepts like woke ISM, gender disparity, absent father, but I 157 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:14,440 think the whole root problem here is that men need to start 158 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:17,240 showing up. And this is the problem I'm 159 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:20,480 starting to see. And it's sad, you know, it's sad 160 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:24,640 because I think that this is, you know, even when when, you 161 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:29,200 know, awaken started, so many men took the piss out of me for 162 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:31,000 being part of a men's group. They were like, oh, what you're 163 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:33,520 doing there. And they didn't understand that 164 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:38,560 that is the route for men to actually become stronger men is 165 00:09:38,560 --> 00:09:43,600 to be around great men. Yes, yeah, absolutely. 166 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:51,120 And which is hugely lacking. I actually very recently looked 167 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:52,800 back at my previous relationship, my previous 168 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:55,400 marriage, and I've done this exercise before. 169 00:09:55,440 --> 00:10:00,320 I thought I'd do it again to go let me actually look back as to 170 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:04,200 where I can take responsibility for where it fucks up and where 171 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:06,960 it didn't go right and, and where I was at play. 172 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:16,920 And the more I looked to where I didn't step up was absolutely 173 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:18,920 where I was. Just I had so many boyish 174 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:25,200 tendencies, like emotionally not there, not fully committing 175 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:29,040 right. Just like avoiding difficult 176 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:32,760 conversations, avoiding conflict, avoiding like the the 177 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:38,360 make up conversations and just like diving into work instead, 178 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:40,800 just like doing everything to actually avoid growing the 179 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:44,040 relationship deeply. And I can look at that now and 180 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:46,840 like, and I, I wasn't, I wasn't a bad husband and wasn't a bad 181 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:49,880 guy. But you know, I can look at that 182 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:55,000 now and go, actually, I can really see where even after I've 183 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:58,760 done so much work, still so many boyish tendencies. 184 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:01,880 Well, I'm just not showing up as a man as I'm just, I'm not 185 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:03,040 showing up with masculine energy. 186 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:07,600 I'm very much showing up as a sport little boy or you know, 187 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:09,440 the boy. Yeah, You know, I'm just, I'm 188 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:11,600 just as you're sharing that I've probably just played out the 189 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:15,320 same thing for myself. Yeah. 190 00:11:15,680 --> 00:11:19,040 Yeah. Like like even even and, and 191 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:22,160 that's the and, and that is exactly, I think the problem. 192 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:27,720 And I realized that for my 2 girls, like I've, you know, I'm 193 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:30,040 now in a, in a female dominated environment. 194 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:31,920 I'm definitely going to be getting a munchet. 195 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:35,080 But you know, I just, I looked at the three girls sat there the 196 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:39,600 other day and like Indy was in a Strop, Effie was sulking and 197 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:43,120 Poppy was also in that part of the week in the month where it 198 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:45,840 was just difficult. And I was like, Oh my God, this 199 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:48,200 is only going to get worse. But you know what? 200 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:52,520 I, I was, I sat there and I was like, I love these three girls, 201 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,720 you know, so much. You know, Poppy and I actually 202 00:11:55,720 --> 00:12:00,560 need to be the strong male role model and I need to be such a 203 00:12:00,560 --> 00:12:04,760 good role model for those 3. So they, they get an idea of 204 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:08,240 what a real solid strong man looks like. 205 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:12,480 And I don't think that that so many guys have had that, you 206 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:15,040 know you. Know I'll share something with 207 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:19,160 you Actually the this, this was a couple of weeks ago, someone 208 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:23,760 said to me, you've got real dad energy about you. 209 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,200 You've got real dad energy. It wasn't good. 210 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:27,920 Not a dad bother. No, they didn't. 211 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:30,160 They're not. Yeah, you know, not a dad 212 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:30,880 bother. No, they didn't. 213 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:35,000 They didn't know I was a father. Like you've got real and like it 214 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:36,240 was. And the way that they were 215 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:40,240 saying it was a like real complimentary, but real dad 216 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:43,880 energy. And then later on they said to 217 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:49,120 me, I just, I, I want to just let you know that I've been 218 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:55,720 looking at you as the, the way I wanted my father to be growing 219 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:57,440 up. And she's like they were. 220 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:01,640 I feel really drawn to you because I wanted my father to 221 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:06,600 show up like you are like you've been showing up and and they 222 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:10,000 said I for the first time in my life, I feel like the 223 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:13,880 masculine's safe, Like I feel like I feel like I can trust a 224 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:18,120 man by because I've I've been in your presence and for me and not 225 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:20,400 like I've been sitting on that for a couple of weeks ago. 226 00:13:20,560 --> 00:13:22,440 Fucking hell. Wow, that's like such a great 227 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:24,720 compliment. Fucking huge ass. 228 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:29,640 Huge, huge compliment. But I can, I can see now like my 229 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:32,520 growth there and like just a couple of years ago, like 230 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:36,480 someone would not have said that to me because I still, I was 231 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:39,640 still very much coming out live as a fucking boy. 232 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:44,720 And because no one had no one taught me, like no one's shown 233 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:47,600 me the ropes. Like there was no initiation. 234 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:49,640 There was no rituals to go through. 235 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:52,080 Like you're now going from boy to man. 236 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:55,760 It's very much just thrown into the world and just deal with 237 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:57,600 things. And then, and then we have all 238 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:00,120 these things, we have this wokism thing coming up and we've 239 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:03,560 got to deal with that. And young, young men and boys 240 00:14:03,560 --> 00:14:05,880 have to deal with that and have to navigate that, and they 241 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:08,840 haven't got guides and role models. 242 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:11,120 To. Help them, it's difficult. 243 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:12,440 Think what you said there, right? 244 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:18,280 It's just like, so I'm watching, watching Matt Walsh's stuff and 245 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:19,680 he said, you know what you say to all of this? 246 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:24,480 No, And he said your 7 year old comes in and he said I want to 247 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:29,000 be a girl daddy. And what's happening is that a 248 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:33,720 weak man with no boundaries is entertaining quite a dangerous 249 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:40,240 conversation with a very mixed up and unsure young man who has 250 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:42,640 just had an idea. I want to be a woman dad. 251 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:45,200 And he says, do you know what you say in that circumstance? 252 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:49,360 No, this is and is. And I think it's paving the way 253 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:54,800 for a type of, I think it's a well, Elon Musk called it a mind 254 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:55,960 virus. But I think that, you know, I 255 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:59,760 think that is a real issue with, and I've watched and listened to 256 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:01,320 so many different things about this. 257 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:06,280 And one of the interesting things, I heard someone on Joe 258 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:08,000 Rogan saying it. And obviously you've got to be 259 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:09,520 careful quoting people on Joe Rogan. 260 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:14,880 And so far it's not. But she was she studied body 261 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:22,400 dysmorphia and she quoted that the same the same character 262 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:27,040 profile of people that are going through transition in early 263 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:29,640 parts of their life where they're choosing from to go from 264 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:33,880 male to female or female to male is exactly the same personality 265 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:36,360 characteristics as those who would have had an eating 266 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:40,000 disorder 20 years ago. But, but because it wasn't in 267 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:46,400 the popular media about a, about gender change and sex change is 268 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:48,600 that now this is almost like the new trend. 269 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:52,120 And it just made me think it's like, holy shit. 270 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:57,280 Like because when you've got a child going through a, an eating 271 00:15:57,280 --> 00:15:59,520 disorder, normally it's because they're trying to deal with 272 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:00,640 something that's going on in the home. 273 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:02,320 Like that's one of the characteristics of an eating 274 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:05,240 disorder is that they've had lack of love, lack of support. 275 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:07,920 There's some sort of there's something going on in the home 276 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:12,800 or in school that's causing them significant psychological like 277 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:16,400 harm or struggle. And it's just having that 278 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,760 supportive parent there to say, listen, no, you know, no, this 279 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:24,560 is not this is not who you are. You're a biological man and the 280 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:27,280 and these are the you can you can have feminine traits. 281 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:30,800 You can even actually, if you choose to have ways of being 282 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:35,120 that that you know that this is like a softer and more masculine 283 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:39,520 or gentle, but you are a man. And I think that this is the 284 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:40,760 problem. I think this is the problem. 285 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:44,560 A lot of men will not have those kind of conversations especially 286 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:49,960 and they, and we're bowing to like almost social pressure to 287 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:52,480 allow this conversation into our homes. 288 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:58,240 And I actually had a conversation with a guy and he 289 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:00,760 was so upset. He was so upset. 290 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:07,040 He was so frustrated that his his wife was championing the 291 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:11,319 gender change of their child and he just didn't have the tools to 292 00:17:11,319 --> 00:17:14,240 navigate it. And he was so upset he lived in 293 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:17,720 California. He was, you know, a really good 294 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:20,640 guy. But I think that the lack of 295 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:25,359 ability to navigate conflict with his wife was actually 296 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:28,160 exacerbating the problems that were going on in the home. 297 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:30,360 You know, I don't know what happened at the same time, but 298 00:17:30,360 --> 00:17:31,240 same. It's. 299 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:34,400 And I think this is, yeah, it comes back to like, men aren't 300 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:37,360 being equipped with the tools to have these hard conversations. 301 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:40,800 Yeah, what you just said, though, actually couple, couple 302 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:46,880 of things to unpack specifically on the tools part, because this 303 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:51,920 is important, but also men having emotional conversations. 304 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:54,640 So there's a there's a huge thing on particularly with women 305 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:56,480 saying to guys, we want you to be more emotional. 306 00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:00,000 We want you to open up more like tell us like we want you to be 307 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:04,000 more emotionally connected. And for and for a lot of guys 308 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,680 historically that hasn't been it's like, no, well, we're not 309 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:09,360 going to be we're going to be this strong provider. 310 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:13,360 We're alpha, we're out providing, protecting warrior 311 00:18:13,360 --> 00:18:17,840 esque, we build and so forth. So then to cut and then it's 312 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:20,960 actually it's the complete opposite to then be open and 313 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:25,640 vulnerable, right? And in kind of our society, 314 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:29,680 vulnerability is seen as soft, softness is seen as weakness. 315 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:33,120 And so it's like it's a it's polarizing for a guy to go for a 316 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:34,760 fucking hell, right? What do I do here? 317 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:37,600 Because my woman's actually saying she wants me to be more 318 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:41,400 emotional and open. So if the guy doesn't have the 319 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,480 right tools, this is what happens, is it? 320 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:47,440 He goes, maybe I will just be a little bit more vulnerable and 321 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:51,360 open then to my woman. And he does that and he opens up 322 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:56,360 and it feels fucking great, Feels phenomenal because he's 323 00:18:56,360 --> 00:18:58,640 finally able to get some shit off his shoulders. 324 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:00,480 He's finally got someone to talk to. 325 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:05,960 But if he's not equipped with the right tools, he'll continue 326 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:09,360 and go deeper and deeper and he'll end up emotionally dumping 327 00:19:09,360 --> 00:19:12,920 on his woman and tell her everything and she'll be like, 328 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:14,840 wow, this is fucking overwhelming. 329 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:18,520 And it's quite unattractive now because now I can see all the 330 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:20,520 everything that I probably didn't want to see. 331 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:23,120 And the man feels phenomenal because I fucking I'll, I'll 332 00:19:23,120 --> 00:19:26,840 keep doing this. And then it's a bit of a role 333 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:31,120 reversal in a relationship because then it does become the 334 00:19:31,120 --> 00:19:35,360 woman the begins to mother the the husband. 335 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:37,400 I'll let me, I'll have to, I'll have to look after him. 336 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:41,040 I'll have to mother him because he's in essentially he's wounded 337 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:42,880 here and now he's seeping everything onto me. 338 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:48,600 Yeah, I, I, I think I've been, I think, I don't think I've been 339 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:52,840 there, but I think I can see parts of my relationships where 340 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:54,560 I've been that person. Yeah, definitely. 341 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:59,880 Yeah, but I, I see this with guys and and I and I hear about 342 00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:01,920 it with with women that say that. 343 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:06,080 And they're like, well, I don't why is that why, why we're not 344 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:09,440 having sex anymore? That's just because it's 345 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:10,960 unattractive. I'd like old. 346 00:20:11,120 --> 00:20:13,880 So it's, and it's, and it's difficult for, for guys who are 347 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:17,840 like, well, she wants me to be emotionally connected, also 348 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:19,400 wants me to be a fucking warrior. 349 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:22,920 Where's the line here? Which is why it's why I'm such a 350 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:26,800 huge fucking advocate of men's groups being in powerful men's 351 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:28,600 groups, because you can talk about your shit and your 352 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:33,200 emotional stuff in in a in an environment there and then not 353 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,040 need to emotionally dump on a woman. 354 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:40,800 Yeah, think kind of just like what you were sharing there was 355 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:42,840 like coming back to that same conversation. 356 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:44,000 I want to ask you a question, right? 357 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:46,480 So I don't have the answer for this. 358 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:48,840 I'm interested. And like, you know, even 359 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:53,360 listeners listening in, I am not transphobic, nor am I 360 00:20:53,360 --> 00:20:57,600 homophobic, nor am I racist. I'm just like, I let people do 361 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:01,960 what they want. However, however, right, my 7 362 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:04,120 year old boy, I've got a 7 year old boy. 363 00:21:04,120 --> 00:21:08,640 OK, obviously my 7 year old daughter comes to me at 7:00 and 364 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:12,840 just decided that she is not a girl. 365 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,400 She's decided she's a boy. What do you do? 366 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:19,400 And, and that is the, I think the problem that we're, we're 367 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:25,480 now going to have with more and more of the popular medias 368 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:28,760 talking about this, you know, and this is what I'm, that's my 369 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:31,360 concern. And I don't, maybe we need to 370 00:21:31,360 --> 00:21:34,120 get an expert on this, get some people to come in and talk about 371 00:21:34,120 --> 00:21:38,880 it, because I genuinely think that is, it's a real interesting 372 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,360 conversation and it's an important conversation because 373 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:45,520 you're going to have that, that's going to my current take 374 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:47,240 on it. This is where I'm currently at 375 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:49,520 with it. I might be misinformed and I'm, 376 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:54,360 I'm open to different views. If Effie came at 7 years old and 377 00:21:54,360 --> 00:21:57,480 said I want to be a boy, I'll be right, OK? 378 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,480 I'd, I'd inquire. I'd let her share a story, let 379 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,560 her share her thinking. There would be absolutely 380 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:07,640 nothing on my part that would move into any kind of action to 381 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:11,080 help her transit transition into being a boy. 382 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:16,440 I would not facilitate that thought of a 7 year old who 383 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:21,120 still maybe even believe in, I don't know, the Easter Bunny. 384 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:26,240 It's just like, yeah, And that And that is what is absolutely 385 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:28,120 crazy. How have we got to this part? 386 00:22:28,120 --> 00:22:32,440 And this again comes back to men not taking a stand and doing 387 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,680 their part in the home, which is the boundary set of the. 388 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:36,880 And we can talk about anger in a second as well. 389 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:40,160 But so. Yeah, I like that. 390 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:44,480 What you saying that it like through my body I'm like yeah, 391 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:50,200 no and. Like it's if my 15 year old son 392 00:22:51,120 --> 00:22:56,720 who had clearly struggled his whole life with sexuality came 393 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,360 to me and said, I'm gay, dad, there's no, there's literally no 394 00:22:59,360 --> 00:23:02,640 shame in that. I'm like, if my 1516 year old 395 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:07,560 boy came to me and said dad want to change gender identity, would 396 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,960 I entertain at a 1516 year old? Maybe there might be a 397 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:14,240 conversation because he's got a little bit more consciousness. 398 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:19,600 I'm like by by no means would I facilitate any action, but I 399 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,760 think what's happening is that so many young kids who just have 400 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:26,480 these ideas and it's also a part where the parent gives him 401 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:31,520 pandas to their kid and and. You know, because I mean, 402 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,080 whether this is right or wrong, let me, I'll tell you something. 403 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,360 I'll tell you a conversation I had with my old nursery. 404 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,600 Right, Right or wrong, I didn't care because it's the way I 405 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:44,480 felt. And bearing in mind Leo, he's 3. 406 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:45,560 He's not. He's not. 407 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:47,760 He's not. He's still a baby, right? 408 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:54,480 But they kept, they kept having like dressing up and get loads 409 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,800 of girls outfits at nursery and like, and at this particular 410 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,000 nursery they all wear pink. It's all women as one man, 411 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,640 they're all wearing pink. It's fine, right? 412 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:07,880 But I just noticed every time I was picking him up, he was 413 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:11,000 wearing like a girl's dress and or a girl's hat. 414 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:13,520 Not every time, but it was happening frequently. 415 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:15,240 And I asked him, I was like, what? 416 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,400 What's going on here? Oh yeah, we like to play dress 417 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,400 up. And I was like, listen, Leo is a 418 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,120 boy. I don't want him being dressed 419 00:24:22,120 --> 00:24:24,520 up in girls outfits. You do it, do it with the girls. 420 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:26,480 Not a problem. But not my son. 421 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:32,080 That's that's what I mean that. This but his they kick back at 422 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,280 me. The women kick back at me. 423 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,160 Pete, come on. He's, he's, he's, he's just a 424 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:39,440 he's just a little baby. He's having some fun. 425 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,320 I was like, I don't care. He's my son. 426 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:48,440 I I decide, not you. I decide what goes on with him. 427 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,160 OK, It's my responsibility, not yours. 428 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:56,040 I don't want to say it again, but I I like the you could see 429 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,920 like the tension changed in the room because I wasn't having it 430 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:01,720 and. Laundry. 431 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:03,960 So that's absolutely I won't take it. 432 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:06,120 I think you've hit in there on the head, right? 433 00:25:06,120 --> 00:25:07,440 And that's what I'm trying to get at. 434 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,960 I'm, I'm trying to understand, like a lot of men would just let 435 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,920 that slide. It's like it's almost like they 436 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,160 would, they would know it was wrong, but they wouldn't have 437 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,560 had that uncomfortable, right? Do you know what this is? 438 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,440 And then do you know what they would they'd be probably labeled 439 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,120 as is toxically masculine if they were to do. 440 00:25:26,120 --> 00:25:28,360 I don't want to be a toxic masculine guy. 441 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:33,600 That's not it's taking a stand for strong masculinity within a 442 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:35,760 young boy. And I think this is what's 443 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:39,720 happening is that so many young boys are getting feminised and 444 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:41,800 it's like, this is another one, right? 445 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:43,880 And I don't think this is spoken about. 446 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:50,040 Try and find a single positive masculine role model on a kids 447 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,480 TV show. Like there's like Blippy, like 448 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,880 the guy is so feminine. Like he's lovely, lovely to 449 00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:00,600 watch, very entertaining for young kids and softly spoken, 450 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,800 very camp like there's, you know, if you look at on telly, 451 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:08,760 there's a lot of camp men who so if a man is in a in a position 452 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,520 of kids entertainment, he's like he's been camp, he's been 453 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:16,240 sometimes very feminine, but you don't see strong male role 454 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:17,720 models for for boys on the telly. 455 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,640 And I actually, as soon as I what I worked this out, I was 456 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:24,360 like, I started seeing it everywhere You'd see sometimes 457 00:26:24,360 --> 00:26:29,600 camp, sometimes gay, sometimes feminised man in front of kids. 458 00:26:30,120 --> 00:26:33,560 I'm like this, I just think this is not good. 459 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,400 This is not, this is not what I want my girls to see. 460 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:42,760 I want my girls to see strong, powerful men because I think 461 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:47,120 that strong, powerful men are going to help them become 462 00:26:47,120 --> 00:26:51,000 strong, powerful women. And, and this is like, I want to 463 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,720 move the conversation because what I really didn't want to 464 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:57,840 happen in this podcast, I come across as a transphobe, a 465 00:26:58,440 --> 00:26:59,960 homophobe. I'm not. 466 00:27:00,360 --> 00:27:03,000 I think let everyone be who they want to be. 467 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:07,120 But in the formative years of my children growing up, they need 468 00:27:07,120 --> 00:27:11,880 to see a strong, powerful man set in boundaries, having hard 469 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,560 conversations, doing the right thing. 470 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,160 And that is where the void is right now. 471 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,400 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 472 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:23,840 And but it starts with the men growing up. 473 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:25,800 Yeah. And I think this is what I think 474 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,640 this is what actually has happened is women have actually 475 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,160 become way more powerful. They've taken like, you know, 476 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,000 you've seen mentioned it, they've had their Oprah moment. 477 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,400 They've really stepped into their own power. 478 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:40,600 I love that. Like I am a huge advocate for. 479 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:42,520 Is that am I was it being? Powerful. 480 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,720 I want yeah. Like I think it's it's going to 481 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:47,560 be if. I think it's sexy. 482 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:49,480 I'm like, I'm fucking. I'm like that. 483 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:51,120 It's fucking. When I see a powerful woman on 484 00:27:51,120 --> 00:27:54,200 that, it's fucking sexy. I like it. 485 00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:57,800 But but I think the opposite is happening for men is that women 486 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:02,120 have stepped into their power. Men have not stepped into theirs 487 00:28:02,120 --> 00:28:05,600 or even held that even held their ground. 488 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:08,560 They've actually atrophied. Yeah, because they don't know 489 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:10,880 how, because many, many men don't know how to. 490 00:28:11,120 --> 00:28:13,920 And so it's, it's, it's an avoidance thing because that 491 00:28:14,120 --> 00:28:16,480 because there's multiple areas where they need to step up, step 492 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,760 up, whether it's in a relationship in setting strong 493 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:23,480 boundaries or, or, or just like creating the strength in that 494 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,760 relationship, or whether it's in business, going out and growing 495 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:28,920 a business. But but rather than going out 496 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,920 and growing a business and doing the income generating 497 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,760 activities, for example, they go and procrastinate and do 498 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:38,360 something else, fucking watch porn or watch Netflix or scroll 499 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:42,320 on social media or do admin work or do things that do not relate 500 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:43,800 to actually growing the business itself. 501 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,200 It's an avoidance technique because it's boyish attitude. 502 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,760 Whereas if it's like if you're coming at it from a masculine 503 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:52,880 attitude, it's like the masculine is doing everything in 504 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,320 his power to grow the business, not not avoiding it at all 505 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,200 costs. Same in in relationships. 506 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,840 It's, it's the same thing. If he's got boyish tendencies, 507 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,600 he'll go out the relationship detached, not not step into hard 508 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,320 conversations, be emotionally distant and so forth. 509 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:13,440 Whereas if it's a man, he's going in masculine energy, he's 510 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:15,960 coming, he's, he's coming in. He's holding the boundaries, 511 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,040 holding the space. He's creating the love. 512 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:22,320 Yeah, and and I think that's one of the points that I was 513 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:26,000 thinking of having talked about is that actually I'm a really 514 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,960 loving father. Like I'm really, really loving 515 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,560 with my girls. I'm I can imagine so many guys 516 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:35,960 out there would be the same, you know, like, but very, very 517 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,520 tactile cuddling kid. My kids all the time. 518 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:42,880 I say I love them all the time. And I wonder how, and I, and 519 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:46,680 this again, coming from a place of not knowing, I wonder how 520 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,960 much of this gender identity crisis that we've got going on 521 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,720 is coming from a lack of love from a strong father. 522 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,680 Like genuine, like, you know, we joke about daddy issues for so 523 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:01,960 many people, but how many how many problems are we seeing in 524 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:05,280 this, in this common? But you know, in the moment 525 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:09,320 right now, which would would have been solved by a young boy 526 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:13,200 or a young girl just having a strong male role model, It was 527 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:16,720 physically who was emotionally there. 528 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:21,720 And I just think that that's one, again, one of the issues. 529 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:26,920 And so many men do not know how to be loving because they're so 530 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:29,680 worried about it. So they're so locked up in their 531 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,960 own heads and they're disconnected from their bodies. 532 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,760 They're so committed to being the warrior who just goes out 533 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:38,640 and works. They're exhausted when they get 534 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,560 home. There's now like a perpetual 535 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:46,600 cycle of more and more kids having a disconnection from a 536 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:48,720 loving father. Yeah, it it is a. 537 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:52,720 Vicious cycle because in a, in the majority of men's heads, 538 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:57,800 they'll be, well, it's my role to provide and to protect. 539 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,240 And I like I'm, I'm going to go out and I'm going to make the 540 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,160 money. I'm going to, I'm going to build 541 00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:05,000 my career. I'm going to build the business. 542 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:12,280 And part way, you know, in to do that is to work, work over work 543 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:13,840 over work. Yeah. 544 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,120 But also also what happens that. Yeah. 545 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:18,840 Yeah. Like the after effect of that is 546 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,960 then they're not there emotionally. 547 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:23,600 Yeah. But also find it. 548 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,120 Hard to be there. Emotionally, as you said that. 549 00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:31,000 You know, a man's role being to provide and protect like that's, 550 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,600 you know, the, you know, the socially Dr. role for a man 551 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:37,240 provide and protect. It's not so much protecting just 552 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:41,240 from physical violence and you know, people like intruders in 553 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:44,040 the home or it's actually to protect your kids from 554 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,640 psychopathology. And and do you get me? 555 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:51,280 Like it's like it's for your dad to say, Hey, listen, this is 556 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:52,720 like, we're not going to entertain this. 557 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:56,960 You know what's going on here? And I and I get I think this is 558 00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:00,280 what's, you know, I'm checking in my own bias and prejudices 559 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,040 and all this sort of stuff. As we're talking about this is 560 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:07,200 that so many probably parents in the past have been dismissive of 561 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,160 things like gender identity struggles. 562 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:13,160 We've had parents that have been racist. 563 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,280 Like I know, I know, I've got mates and they would definitely 564 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:18,680 say my parents were racist. My parents were racist. 565 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:22,560 They were white supremacists, racists because they'd lived in 566 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:24,920 a certain part of the world. It was just white supremacy. 567 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:29,840 They, they were not exposed to racial inequality because like 568 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:31,840 they lived in a white area of the world. 569 00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,680 They just didn't have that experience. 570 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,320 And they don't like so many people have been wounded with 571 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,880 such a bad past. It's almost like we won't have 572 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,320 this conversation. And this is what I'm I'm really 573 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,280 in at the moment. I'm trying to understand more 574 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:52,480 and more about and how it relates to what I can be as a, 575 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:56,800 as a dad. And what triggered me the other 576 00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:58,720 day, it was, it was actually really interesting. 577 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:04,640 I was going through Instagram and I'm seeing more and more of 578 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,880 this soft parenting. So it's this idea of soft 579 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:11,440 parenting. No yelling, like getting down to 580 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:15,800 eye level, being really commutative with your kids, 581 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:19,440 never raising your voice. I'm like, is this fucking is 582 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,800 this good? Is this good that my kid is not 583 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,360 being exposed to a yelled voice, like a raised voice? 584 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:30,240 What kind of kid am I going to create if they honestly? 585 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:31,960 And so this is what my thinking is right? 586 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:37,680 So I come from a family where there was so much fighting, 587 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:39,760 there was so much yelling between my parents. 588 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:43,800 Like yelling was a really and you know, and there was there 589 00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,080 was actual physical violence. There was physical violence, 590 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:48,360 there was yelling. It was chaos. 591 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:53,600 However, I know now like. I'm probably still working 592 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:55,720 through it now as well, but it's like. 593 00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:01,000 Has it made me better at? Dealing with conflict, I I'm 594 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:05,600 definitely more resilient, but imagine a kid that's never been 595 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,000 yelled at, goes into a workplace, goes into the 596 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,320 military, and all of a sudden gets yelled at. 597 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:16,040 They're going to go to pieces. So is the lack of yelling going 598 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:20,600 to create strong kids? It's just like, I don't know is 599 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:22,239 the answer. Like honestly, I don't know. 600 00:34:22,679 --> 00:34:24,880 Well, I I. Literally this happened a couple 601 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:28,600 of days ago. I'll give you a story. 2 days 602 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:34,280 ago, listen, this literally the security guard came over, two 603 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:36,440 women came over. This is in public. 604 00:34:36,679 --> 00:34:39,679 So I picked up Leo from nursery. He's running around like a 605 00:34:39,679 --> 00:34:43,840 lunatic in London and he's gone to go into one of those like 606 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:46,040 evolving doors. They go round in circles. 607 00:34:47,639 --> 00:34:49,639 And it's far and they're. Fast, right? 608 00:34:49,679 --> 00:34:51,800 And because it's rush hour, there's loads of people around 609 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,880 and he's run ahead and he's tried getting in this door and 610 00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:59,880 he stopped like last second fallen over shoes. 611 00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:04,960 His shoes come off and I've I've just walked over very casually 612 00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:10,280 and I'm like, right, pick up your shoe and he's in he's like 613 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:12,920 he's all shocked and I'm like pick up your shoe, put it back 614 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,280 on. Now come over here. 615 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:17,160 Let's have a conversation about this. 616 00:35:17,720 --> 00:35:19,600 And so I'm being very stern with him. 617 00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,000 I'm like, dude, second time you've done this, he tried doing 618 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,360 it the day before as well. Second time you've done this in 619 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:26,520 the frustration. In your voice, Yeah, I'm like 620 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:27,640 I'm. Not accepting this. 621 00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:29,440 Now, you see, you could really hurt yourself. 622 00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:32,640 And I've had my voice is raised and being very, very stern. 623 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,720 People are watching two women run over. 624 00:35:36,240 --> 00:35:37,520 Is he OK? Is OK, Is OK? 625 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:38,360 Is he all right? Is he all right? 626 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:40,400 Is all right? And I was like, he's fine. 627 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:43,280 He needs to learn because they're trying to, they're 628 00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:45,240 trying to pick him up and just put the shoe back on for him. 629 00:35:45,240 --> 00:35:46,520 And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no. 630 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:48,920 Do not put the shoe back. Like, that's his role. 631 00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:50,880 It's not your role. No, it's not my role. 632 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,960 He'll put his own trainer back on security guards now. 633 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:55,720 Come over. Everything all right over here. 634 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,800 And. And I'm like, I'm in the zone. 635 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,840 And I've looked at the guard. I'm like, everything is fine. 636 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,680 I'm disciplining my son. And. 637 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,160 And the security guard's like, sorry, Sir. 638 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:12,000 Yeah. Just just just walk. 639 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:18,400 Just watch the shows, right? It's like, I think that's, I'm, 640 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,640 I'm very, very comfortable with doing that privately and or 641 00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:24,240 publicly, yeah. And and and. 642 00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,840 Keeping my voice loud, stern. He needs the. 643 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:30,400 The boy needs to learn. It's my duty to take it. 644 00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:33,600 It pains me inside because I want to give him a cuddle. 645 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:35,400 I want to give him a kiss. He's crying. 646 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:37,720 I just want to hold him. But I know he ain't going to. 647 00:36:37,720 --> 00:36:40,160 He's not going to learn that way if I give him all this like 648 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:41,720 feminine. Oh, don't worry, baby. 649 00:36:41,720 --> 00:36:43,520 Let me put your shoe back on. Come here. 650 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:45,360 Give me a cuddle. Just like those two women want 651 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:47,120 to do. He will do not learn. 652 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:49,840 They go, oh, actually I've got love after I made a fuck up. 653 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,080 Maybe I'll just do that again. Yeah. 654 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,600 He doesn't get away with that with his dad. 655 00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:59,800 No, I I think that. Gets love afterwards, so. 656 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:03,120 Afterwards, after, after the effect, after he, like we've 657 00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:05,120 acknowledged it, we start walking home. 658 00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:07,160 I've stopped him again on the bridge and like, right do it, 659 00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:09,760 let's have a conversation right you. 660 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:11,360 Remember. What happened just then, like, 661 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:14,040 like, do you, do you understand where you went wrong? 662 00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:17,240 And he's like, yes, Daddy, I'm like, listen, man, I love you 663 00:37:17,240 --> 00:37:19,840 with all of my heart. You were everything to me. 664 00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:23,320 And the reason that we have those conversations is because I 665 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,480 love you so much. So like after like everything's 666 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:28,960 calmed down and he's like, I'm not dude, I love you, mate. 667 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:31,960 You know that I think what's interesting. 668 00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:34,560 Like if we were to just break down that though, you have got a 669 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:37,960 handle on your safe anger. And this is what I kind of like, 670 00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:42,400 this is what I've alluded to and is that so many men don't have a 671 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:47,520 handle on their anger. So what a lot of say the last 20 672 00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:52,120 years, 30 years, 40 years, more men did not have a handle on 673 00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,240 their anger. Like there's been so many, like 674 00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:58,520 I would say a weak man, a weaker man, a weak man who hasn't got 675 00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:02,440 the psychological strength to to contain his anger in a powerful 676 00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:07,400 way and demonstrate safe anger has led to this problem. 677 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:09,560 That's what this problem is being caused. 678 00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:14,760 There's so many women and men that have been wounded by men in 679 00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:18,480 that situation who would have not only disciplined them, 680 00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:22,120 probably physical violence, smacked them on the arse and 681 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,800 then withdrawn the love afterwards as well. 682 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,800 And so it's, it's almost like not only have I made a mistake, 683 00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:33,800 then I've had a load of abuse, then I've actually had love 684 00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:35,120 withdrawn. That would be the pattern I 685 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,160 think. And I think that that that 686 00:38:37,240 --> 00:38:41,520 demonstrates there is that one of the things that we can hope 687 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:45,160 for for men is that they actually find a place where they 688 00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:48,680 can start to transform their relationship with anger. 689 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,840 So in those kind of situations, they can be a stronger man. 690 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:56,280 They can be loving and firm, like firm and loving. 691 00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:57,760 Like Robert Glover talked about that. 692 00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,680 It's like, it's like you can be very firm and very loving. 693 00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:03,880 And it's the same with my girls. So when I wrote on this guy's 694 00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,680 post, you said, you know about yelling because he put this post 695 00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:09,400 up and it was about these kids saying what's the one thing you 696 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:11,880 hate your dad doing the most? And they all said when he yells 697 00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:14,160 at me, when he yells at me, when he yells, I was like, oh, 698 00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:15,480 fucking course. They're going to say that. 699 00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:17,200 I was like, what? What's the issue? 700 00:39:17,240 --> 00:39:18,880 The course? They're not going to enjoy being 701 00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:20,880 yelled at. Nobody enjoys being yelled at. 702 00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:24,800 But, and I put in my comment, what happens if my kid is about 703 00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:27,760 to cross a busy road and run out into the road, I'm going to 704 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:28,720 yell. Do you know what? 705 00:39:28,720 --> 00:39:30,960 I'm going to yell hard because I want it etched into their 706 00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:34,160 conscience, consciousness that that is not safe. 707 00:39:34,720 --> 00:39:37,080 And I think that this is the problem that we're having is 708 00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:41,880 that again, the feminine is leading that it's like, oh, are 709 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:44,360 you OK? They don't remember that. 710 00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:50,880 No it doesn't. You know, so it worries. 711 00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:55,000 Me, it does worry me because like this we have and we're 712 00:39:55,000 --> 00:40:03,440 breeding a generation of lazy of sick of psychopathological 713 00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:08,600 children because this is not in place and it's I actually think 714 00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:10,560 it's men's fault Yeah, well, well, if. 715 00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:14,720 We if we go back to the what we said at the start, weak men 716 00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:18,480 create hard times. And we actually talked about 717 00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:23,800 this on the Awaken man and Herok man very, very recently in the 718 00:40:24,720 --> 00:40:29,240 what are most men seek now that it's hedonistic? 719 00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:31,760 Yeah, yeah, it's. It's it's. 720 00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:34,280 It's the fun stuff. It's the, it's the, it's the 721 00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:36,600 fancy stuff. And listen, I fucking love all 722 00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:38,120 that stuff. But but it there's a lot of 723 00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:41,440 hedonistic. I want joy, I want fun, I want 724 00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:44,800 excitement, I want happiness. When I, when I talk to so many 725 00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:49,040 guys, I'm like, which I want. I just want happiness, OK? 726 00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:53,320 That is, it's nice. We all fucking want that. 727 00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:58,080 But the reality of life is that it's fucking well we know Phil 728 00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:01,080 starts at this hard work. It's uncertain, it's painful. 729 00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:05,880 That's that is the reality. But when all when we are when 730 00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:10,480 men are seeking joy, excitement, happiness, hedonistic pleasures, 731 00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:13,720 erotic pleasures, sexual pleasures, and that's like all 732 00:41:13,720 --> 00:41:16,240 we're going towards. Yet life is giving us something 733 00:41:16,240 --> 00:41:18,320 very different. Men will just retreat. 734 00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:23,400 And this is the other thing is that we don't grow from all 735 00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:25,640 those things. Happiness. 736 00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:29,600 Excitement. Joy, nice cars, Rolex watches, 737 00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:31,760 yada, yada. The things I I've got those 738 00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:33,280 things, but I don't grow from them. 739 00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:37,120 I don't, I don't. I grow from the fucking hard 740 00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:39,520 times. I grow from the the from the 741 00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:43,120 pain that I go through. I grow from when I do this inner 742 00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:46,720 work that we talk about so much and we do on the Awaken man, 743 00:41:46,720 --> 00:41:51,000 which is incredibly hard because you face your darkness, You face 744 00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:55,360 all the shit that we typically avoid as guys that's incredibly 745 00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:57,920 painful. But I grow exponentially from 746 00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,440 it. And then it's like my anger, my 747 00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:02,920 anger is safe because I've done that work. 748 00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:06,560 Yeah. And then I think and going back 749 00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,680 to like, how do men tip this point where they can become the 750 00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:14,480 man that can protect their kids, psychopathological, you know, 751 00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:16,920 mishaps. How would they become the man 752 00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:20,560 who can protect and serve their communities and lead their 753 00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:23,520 teams? How do they actually, one of the 754 00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:26,520 first steps is actually build a better relationship with anger 755 00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:29,960 because anger is the boundary setter. 756 00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:34,800 And if you haven't got a good relationship with anger, you 757 00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:40,880 will have weak boundaries. And I think a lot of this, this 758 00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,800 psycho, you know, this, these issues in society that I've 759 00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:46,680 mentioned and talked about in this pandromic event is from a 760 00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:48,480 lot of men. That's not saying no, this is 761 00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:50,280 enough. This is not, we're not taking 762 00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:53,360 this conversation any further. And I don't think it's 763 00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:56,960 oppression of, of people's expression of who they are and 764 00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:59,960 who they want to be. I just think there's, it's about 765 00:42:59,960 --> 00:43:03,040 the fringes about some of the people that are struggling and 766 00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:05,960 confused will no longer be confused. 767 00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:08,840 They'll be so much better informed and they'll have a much 768 00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:13,320 more supportive network of of parents and people around them 769 00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:19,040 if they choose in good time to make educated decisions about 770 00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:20,680 what they want to be and who they want to be. 771 00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:23,280 And I think that's what I really want to see change. 772 00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:27,040 And like, that's what saddened me, as I, you know, immersed 773 00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:29,680 myself in like learning more about this stuff is the amount 774 00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:34,000 of just absent men. And then so like, here's here's 775 00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:36,360 the thing. I think this is where it gets 776 00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:39,200 confusing as a guy even going to be listening to this podcast. 777 00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:42,680 Like, how do I even start doing that work stuff? 778 00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:44,960 You can literally go to the Awakened Man. 779 00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:47,760 You know, a lot of the stuff, the conversations every day, a 780 00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:51,480 lot of the stuff that we talked about on Heroic over the past 781 00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:55,200 has been is all about this kind of informing yourself so you 782 00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:57,640 actually build up a better picture of masculinity. 783 00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:01,920 And masculinity isn't just this rah, rah, angry, aggressive. 784 00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:04,160 It's not. It's having a healthy 785 00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:07,520 relationship with things like anger, a healthy relationship 786 00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:11,640 with no having hard conversations, leading from a 787 00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:16,520 place of certainty and power, having a really polarizing 788 00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:18,800 experience with with the feminine. 789 00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:21,960 Like all of those things are things that every day gets 790 00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:23,240 talked about on Heroic man, right? 791 00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:27,400 Yeah, but. It's all 11 big element here. 792 00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:32,400 It's for a man to have something to believe in like that. 793 00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:37,440 He like he believes in something or some things and is not afraid 794 00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:41,040 to talk about it, even if it is polarizing, even if it does piss 795 00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:44,160 people off, even if it's not everyone's cup of tea. 796 00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:46,840 But he's fucking passionate about it, and he's not afraid to 797 00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:48,320 talk about it. Yeah. 798 00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:50,720 Well, that's we've. Done with this podcast today you 799 00:44:50,720 --> 00:44:53,440 know, I was like, want to have a conversation about it It's 800 00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:56,800 missing it's. Missing from so many men like 801 00:44:56,800 --> 00:45:00,120 having something that they believe in and going after it, 802 00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:02,280 yeah. Do you know what I think 803 00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:04,440 actually one of the big things that if you're a guy listening 804 00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:08,720 to this and you're worried about this conversation, reach out to 805 00:45:08,720 --> 00:45:11,760 Pete on the Awaken Mount. Because what I think is really 806 00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,760 important is more guys get the support to navigate these kind 807 00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:18,000 of problems. Like if you've got in issues in 808 00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:22,400 your home where your kid or and you just don't know how to talk 809 00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:24,160 about it. Like if your kids going through 810 00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:27,600 some sort of gender identity crisis and you and you just 811 00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:31,640 don't have a place to talk about it, reach out to a group of men. 812 00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:34,960 Like, honestly, like a group of men will help you navigate that 813 00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:38,080 because it will help give you the tools not just for you to 814 00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:40,680 have pragmatic conversations with the people that you love 815 00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:44,280 and you lead, but it'll also give you a better, a better, 816 00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:47,720 like, place to go and talk about the experience you're having as 817 00:45:47,720 --> 00:45:50,120 you're navigating that. Because this kind of thing 818 00:45:50,240 --> 00:45:53,480 happening in your home, it's incredibly taxing. 819 00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:55,080 It's incredibly hard to deal with. 820 00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:57,480 I was speaking to a client the other day, and it's one of the 821 00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:01,200 hardest things he had. When his son came out as gay, he 822 00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:04,760 said, honestly, it was like, it was a really hard experience 823 00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:09,000 because nobody turned round to me and said, how are you getting 824 00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:10,600 on with this? Because it was a big thing for 825 00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:12,480 his son. He said, like, you know, my 826 00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:14,920 son's just come out as gay. And I just said to him, like, 827 00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:16,800 and how are you? How are you finding that? 828 00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:18,960 And he goes, Ben, you're the first person to ask me that. 829 00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:21,960 Yeah. And he was really upset. 830 00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:24,800 He's like, no one has bothered asking me because I'm the guy. 831 00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:28,920 He he's like I'm the oppressor. Yeah, and that's that's that's 832 00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:31,520 how guys get isolated. That's how they they start to 833 00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:33,480 feel lonely. It's like fucking no one's no 834 00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:35,840 one's asking me about this. Why is no one asking? 835 00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:39,320 You seep into loneliness. Yeah. 836 00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:40,720 And it. And it what was really 837 00:46:40,720 --> 00:46:44,400 interesting, he said. I am, he said, because his son 838 00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:48,800 was most worried about telling him he's been made out to be the 839 00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:51,160 bad guy that that he ever was waiting on. 840 00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:53,560 What did your dad say? And. 841 00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:55,360 He was the most. Accepting of it. 842 00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:57,280 He knew it was coming. Like he said he knew it was 843 00:46:57,280 --> 00:46:59,680 coming. But he said what was really sad 844 00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:02,920 and what he felt sad and lonely about is that everyone thought 845 00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:06,480 that he was going to act in a certain way and he felt so 846 00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:08,320 isolated and he couldn't talk to anyone about it. 847 00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:10,720 And I was like, that's just, that's just interesting. 848 00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:14,120 And that's why I think, again, I want to have this conversation 849 00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:18,440 because guys need to know how to wade into these conversations. 850 00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:21,520 Actually, we had we did a podcast called How to Have Hard 851 00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:25,960 Conversations with Partners. I think that's a great podcast. 852 00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:27,520 We could probably revisit that Archie party. 853 00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:29,120 Yeah, we will do. And these are not. 854 00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:31,440 Yeah, we can do AV two. Yeah. 855 00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:33,280 OK. I think let's, let's, I think 856 00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:34,960 what? What's what actually what 857 00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:38,120 insight I came into this podcast just wanting to talk about this, 858 00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:41,040 not fully understanding the territory, wanting to have this 859 00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:44,000 conversation. What's what's the insight you've 860 00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:46,120 had and I'll share mine. I think the. 861 00:47:46,240 --> 00:47:51,720 The insight that I've had is the I am, I'm actually just fucking 862 00:47:51,720 --> 00:47:53,600 proud of the work that I am personally doing. 863 00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:56,600 That is like, it's like the way that we've been talking in. 864 00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:58,680 There's so much that I am now doing. 865 00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:00,880 That's right. And just a few years ago, it 866 00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:03,000 wouldn't have been this way. It had been fucked. 867 00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:05,800 And there's so much here that I'm not doing and I'm doing 868 00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:08,200 that's wrong. So that yeah, that's my insight. 869 00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:11,560 The insight is the continuous work here because it don't fuck 870 00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:11,880 it. Stop. 871 00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:15,440 It's not like a 12 month thing like you do it and you completed 872 00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:18,200 it. It's it's just a continuous 873 00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:23,400 commitment to the deep inner development because because 874 00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:29,960 ultimately that's what's going to lead to Leo growing up to be 875 00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:35,840 to be a great man and and to be able to navigate the world of 876 00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:37,560 whatever state that it's in. Yeah, I think. 877 00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:41,200 I made the link because I was, as you were talking, actually, 878 00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:47,480 it was like my kids seeing a guy who is able to be safe with his 879 00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:53,280 anger, who's loving and firm and everything that a man should be 880 00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:57,680 in and should be, I believe should be in a family home is 881 00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:00,040 imperative. It's like I didn't realize how I 882 00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:03,200 was trying to work out why I was so passionate about watching all 883 00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:07,800 this stuff about vocalism, gender identity crisis, like 884 00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:11,000 the, you know, the movement of the trans movement. 885 00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:13,280 And like, why it's been so widely accepted and widely 886 00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:15,960 publicized and why so many people are afraid of talking 887 00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:19,200 about it is that I didn't realize it because. 888 00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:23,840 Because so much of it comes from how important it is to be a 889 00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:26,120 strong man in today's world. Yeah. 890 00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:29,680 Absolutely, Ben. Thank you mate. 891 00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:32,160 Good conversation Team joining us next week. 892 00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:36,640 Also team two things. Number one, I have an event in 893 00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:41,080 London, December 14th and 15th. There are 40 men coming. 894 00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:44,480 It's the perfect space to have this deep conversation and that 895 00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:46,400 should do your personal work here with me. 896 00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:47,640 There's still tickets left on that. 897 00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:53,000 Number two, Heroic man.com if you want to sign up to the event 898 00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:56,560 and if you want to join one of the memberships and do this sort 899 00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:58,960 of work, Catcher next week on the next episode.