1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:03,520 And if we look at the common issues that we're facing today, 2 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:05,960 stress, anxiety, poor sleep, lack of energy. 3 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:09,480 And so breath has been shown across the board to be one of 4 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:13,600 the most accessible but also impactful means to, to impact 5 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:16,480 emotional through through those channels, feel it all to show up 6 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:18,040 authentically. There's nothing more vulnerable 7 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:20,640 than showing up authentically. And the strength that then comes 8 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:23,680 with that when you allow yourself to to do that, to not 9 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:25,960 be affected by things in the same way, to have that 10 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,840 regulation, to have that kind of understanding of yourself and 11 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:32,040 just be able to continue to in a way that's consistent for for 12 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:41,250 everybody around you. Welcome to the Heroic Man 13 00:00:41,250 --> 00:00:43,930 podcast. Today we have Jamie Clements. 14 00:00:43,930 --> 00:00:50,050 Jamie is founder of the Breast Space and is I've just coined 15 00:00:50,330 --> 00:00:52,290 the breathwork specialist of London. 16 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:55,000 Jamie, welcome in mate. Thank you for having me mate, 17 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:57,120 it's good good to be here. Good good good lesson. 18 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:01,680 I want to do a short episode on essentially breath work for 19 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:04,160 dummies. Like just to get into the basics 20 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:10,120 of what it is, how it works, how to do it, and how the guys 21 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:12,840 listening to the podcast can get the most out of breath work for 22 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:15,120 sure. So what is breath work? 23 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:19,080 Breath work is an umbrella term, right? 24 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:22,720 So it's a bit of a all-encompassing catch all 25 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:24,840 headline that covers a lot of different bases. 26 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:28,720 So at its core to any way that we can use our breath to shift 27 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:30,880 our state physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually. 28 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:36,360 So spans every aspect of breath and how we can use the breath to 29 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:39,720 impact our mental health, emotional health, physical 30 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:43,120 health, spiritual health, depending how deep down the 31 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:46,080 spectrum and down the rabbit hole we go within that. 32 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:49,200 The way that I used to speak to this work, and it's still very 33 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:52,480 much applies, is sort of through three key pillars. 34 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:56,160 So we have at one end the real sort of nuts and bolts, the 35 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:58,880 fundamentals of functional breathing, which is how you're 36 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:01,000 breathing right now, how you breathe day-to-day, moment to 37 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:04,520 moment, how you breathe at rest, during sleep, during exercise, 38 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:07,320 that natural habituated pattern of breathing. 39 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:10,240 So that's really the sort of first layer of the pyramid. 40 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:13,800 We then have the role of breath within the nervous system, 41 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:17,440 nervous system regulation. And really that's about how can 42 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:23,120 we use the breath as a tool, as a protocol to create a shift in 43 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:24,280 the state of your nervous system. 44 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:28,600 And then we have the kind of top of the pyramid or the far end of 45 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:31,640 the spectrum, which is about therapeutic breath work and, and 46 00:02:31,640 --> 00:02:34,000 the healing modalities of breath work that we can use to work 47 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:37,600 with subconscious mind, work with trauma and really explore 48 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:39,640 those deeper layers of the psyche in the self. 49 00:02:39,640 --> 00:02:43,640 So there's a lot that kind of falls under the umbrella, but I 50 00:02:43,640 --> 00:02:46,440 think if we kind of break it down into those 3 pillars, it 51 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:51,040 makes it just relatively easy to to understand and, and digest 52 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:54,560 and know how, where and why we might apply something. 53 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:55,880 Yeah, yeah. OK. 54 00:02:55,880 --> 00:03:00,000 So, so pillar number one is our essentially just our normal 55 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:04,720 breath, right? Why is that important to get 56 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:08,680 right by the way we breathe? So I often kind of speak to it 57 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:13,120 as being similar to posture in the sense that, you know, I know 58 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:16,400 my posture is not perfect. Your posture may not be perfect 59 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:20,760 either. We can always improve it and to 60 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:24,600 whatever extent we improve it, we'll see knock on benefits 61 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:28,480 across how we feel and the same for functional breathing and how 62 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:32,120 you breathe day-to-day. I supposed to take a step back 63 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:35,840 even before that, is that the average adult breathes anywhere 64 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:38,920 between 20 and 27,000 times every single day. 65 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:41,880 And so if we're doing anything over 20,000 times a day, you 66 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:44,040 want to be doing it well, you want to be doing it right, You 67 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:48,040 want to be doing it in a way that is supporting how you feel. 68 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:52,800 And for a lot of us now, it's not that we're breathing 69 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:55,480 drastically wrong in a way that's going to lead you to 70 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:58,400 serious health issues there. There are cases of that, 71 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:00,640 absolutely. But for the majority of us, 72 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:03,800 because of stress, because of air quality, a number of 73 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:07,360 different factors of just modern life, we're breathing either too 74 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:10,000 quickly, too much volume, we're breathing through the mouth. 75 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:13,200 There's these subtle signs of what we call dysfunctional 76 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,000 breathing. There are really just holding us 77 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,200 back in terms of our overall health. 78 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:22,120 And so it's really just about the low hanging fruit of can we 79 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:24,520 day-to-day moments, a moment learn to breathe in a way that's 80 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:26,800 going to support us in how we think, feel and operate. 81 00:04:26,840 --> 00:04:30,560 Yeah, yeah, because it so example actually when we started 82 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:34,240 this podcast, I noticed that my breathing was a lot faster, 83 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:39,400 right real quick in the way I was talking call it breathe 84 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:42,960 slowly, talk slowly. I could feel my like my 85 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:46,520 regulation system, my nervous system just getting slower, feel 86 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:52,200 more confident in doing so. So the way that most people, how 87 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:58,600 do most people breathe? I'd say, I guess if we look at 88 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:06,880 ideal optimal versus most commonly non optimal and look at 89 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:10,760 those two as maybe kind of personas of of respiratory 90 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:12,800 health. So we'll start with the, I guess 91 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:16,240 the bad news of the kind of most most frequent signs and we 92 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:19,040 mentioned a couple there. But I'd say for the majority of 93 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:22,600 people who are breathing in some way dysfunctional, it's going to 94 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:25,520 be upper chest. So in an ideal world, well, we 95 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:28,120 want to be breathing deep using full respiratory capacity. 96 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:31,000 So upper chest potentially even vertical. 97 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:33,280 So as they breathe in shoulders are coming up and it's all very 98 00:05:33,280 --> 00:05:35,480 clavicular. So up into the kind of the 99 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:39,720 collar bones and the upper chest, breathing quickly, 100 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:42,000 breathing heavily, breathing noisily. 101 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:46,800 And really that is and, and then probably the final kind of boss 102 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:48,840 of dysfunctional breathing would be mouth breathing. 103 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:52,720 So breathing through the mouth. So all of those aspects really, 104 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:56,080 really common in in modern life because of some of those factors 105 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:59,760 we mentioned around stress, around air quality, around diet, 106 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:02,760 There's a real kind of broad range of factors as well. 107 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:09,920 And then in terms of optimal, what we're really looking for is 108 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:12,560 the antithesis of that. So breathing through the nose, 109 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:14,600 nasal breathing super, super important as part of this 110 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:17,960 conversation, breathing slowly, as you mentioned, breathing 111 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:21,160 deeply, leading with the diaphragm and breathing gently. 112 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:23,960 There's this common misconception that a deep breath 113 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:27,120 has to be a big heavy breath, but that's actually going to add 114 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:30,120 more stress, more strains than that to the nervous system, to 115 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:32,920 the respiratory system. And so it's just about can you 116 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:34,880 slow your breath down? Can you make it more gentle? 117 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:36,160 Can you breathe through the nose? 118 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:40,360 And as you perfectly spoke to, you'll notice even in just a few 119 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:43,480 breaths of doing that intentionally, how your mind, 120 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:46,680 your body, your whole system starts to respond and and 121 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:49,160 settle. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 122 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:51,680 It's like it's intentional breathing. 123 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:55,480 And with, I guess, with this sort of functional breathing 124 00:06:55,480 --> 00:07:00,120 conversation, the real magic of the breath at the very 125 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:03,520 fundamental principles is the fact that it can be both 126 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:07,280 unconscious and conscious. We don't want to be thinking 127 00:07:07,280 --> 00:07:08,680 about every single breath that we take. 128 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:12,040 But often if we are working on something, we have to start off 129 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:14,480 from a place of being quite conscious and intentional with 130 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:19,080 doing it the right way so that eventually it becomes optimal 131 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:21,040 unconsciously. And there's a bit of a journey 132 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:24,080 there to go through where we have to go, OK, becoming aware 133 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:27,320 that you're doing it in a way that isn't optimal, working on 134 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:30,120 that to get to a point of ultimately what we might refer 135 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:33,320 to as as mastery, where it's happening without you having to 136 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:35,240 think about it in the most optimal way for you. 137 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:37,680 Yeah, yeah. Well, it's, it's essentially 138 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:40,320 habit building for sure. And if like we just have 139 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:43,360 discussion, you're 31, I'm 37, we've been breathing a certain 140 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:46,440 way for 30 odd years. It's not going to change 141 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:47,840 overnight. You've got to be so conscious of 142 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:49,440 the way that you breathe. For sure. 143 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:53,280 And it and it's as as you said, kind of most people come into 144 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:57,200 this a little later in life. There's a real ingrained 145 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:00,080 physiological habit that this is kind of psychological and 146 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:02,600 physiological. And so working against that does 147 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:05,960 take a bit of commitment, a bit of time and and that intentional 148 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:09,480 conscious practice on it. Yeah, Yeah, for sure. 149 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:14,840 So sticking again, just with our with our functional breath, if 150 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:17,240 we're thinking about as you mentioned at the start there the 151 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:20,720 the benefits is, is physical, it's emotional, it's spiritual 152 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:23,520 and so forth. What's the benefits physically? 153 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:27,160 So functional breasts getting that right physical benefits. 154 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:31,680 So we can start really with the respiratory side of things. 155 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:34,360 So if we're breathing through the nose, we're getting a whole 156 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:38,320 range of benefits that come from nasal breathing. 157 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:39,880 So we're slowing the breath down. 158 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:43,720 We're also filtering and and humidifying the air to be 159 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:45,440 received by the lungs in the best possible state. 160 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:48,040 So actually improving the air quality that we're receiving by 161 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:51,360 breathing through the nose. Within that we also get this 162 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:53,560 release of nasal nitric oxide. So we're lowering blood 163 00:08:53,560 --> 00:08:58,120 pressure, improving circulation. And then from a physical side of 164 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:00,920 things, we're looking at things like cardiovascular health. 165 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:04,680 What else? What else are we seeing there? 166 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:08,640 There can even be impacts around sort of particularly in 167 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:11,840 children, but also in adults kind of formation of the jaw and 168 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:16,080 the facial structure. And so I think the real core 169 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:18,960 benefits from a physical standpoint are going to be 170 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:20,880 around cardiovascular health for sure. 171 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:23,560 Yeah, yeah, yeah. OK. 172 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:26,640 So physical, cardiovascular. What about emotional? 173 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:34,280 Emotional is probably where most of the excitement and interest 174 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:36,200 in breath workers come from because we're looking at things 175 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:41,000 like sleep quality, stress, anxiety and that and energy I'd 176 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:45,440 put in there as well. And if we look at the common 177 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:48,800 issues that we're facing today, stress, anxiety, porcelain, lack 178 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:53,600 of energy and so breath has been shown across the board to be one 179 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:58,640 of the most accessible but also impactful means to to impact 180 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:00,520 emotional health through through those channels. 181 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:04,600 Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Just being able to regulate your 182 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:06,960 emotions and slow them down. Yeah, yeah. 183 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:10,840 Absolutely. OK, what sort of situations? 184 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:13,440 So let's let's think about typical situation. 185 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:16,760 Typical, typical guy. Maybe he's married and he's and 186 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:21,240 he's maybe he runs a business. Typical situations he might face 187 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:25,880 day-to-day, conflict with a loved one, conflict with his 188 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:27,640 children, conflict with a team member. 189 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:31,360 Where does breath fall into? Like helping navigate that? 190 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:35,280 Yeah, I think it's really around that emotional regulation piece 191 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:39,040 and and I suppose the mechanism beneath emotional regulation, 192 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:43,240 big nervous system regulation and looking at two sides again, 193 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:49,680 so proactive, preventative and sort of reactive responsive ways 194 00:10:49,680 --> 00:10:51,640 of using the breath. So the preventative piece I 195 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:56,240 think is the longer term real big win here. 196 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:59,840 It just is going to lead you to a place where actually the level 197 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:03,840 of reactivity that you face in conflict comes down over time. 198 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:07,080 And so you're less triggered by things that used to trigger. 199 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:10,640 You're less affected by, you know, kid throwing a tantrum. 200 00:11:10,680 --> 00:11:13,160 You're less affected by someone at work doing something that 201 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:15,800 rubs you up the wrong way. And actually that space between 202 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:19,320 you feeling that emotion and how you respond to it growing and 203 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:23,040 growing and growing and just feeling much more in control of 204 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:26,000 how you think, feel, but also respond to what's going on 205 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:28,800 around you. And so that would be where the 206 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:33,280 daily practice of breath work of whether it's 10 minutes a day, 207 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:36,240 20 minutes a day, however many minutes a day, that consistent 208 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:39,960 daily practice would be just a way to bring your overall level 209 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:42,480 of regulation back into a more balanced place so that you're 210 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:46,040 able to respond from a healthier position. 211 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:49,920 And then in the moment, which is always, you know, we're not 212 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:53,680 ever, I'd say, kind of immune from triggers or immune from 213 00:11:53,680 --> 00:11:58,320 getting rubbed up the wrong way. And so in those moments, using 214 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:02,080 the breath in quite an acute way to go, OK, I can feel myself 215 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:05,080 getting aggravated, getting angry, getting frustrated. 216 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:08,760 What can I do right here, right now to take the edge off of that 217 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:12,640 so that I don't blow up, so that I don't, you know, say something 218 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,480 that I'd later regret and just really impulsively react. 219 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:20,440 And so same sort of tools that we would use there in terms of 220 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:22,680 bringing down the level of energy and activation within the 221 00:12:22,680 --> 00:12:25,200 nervous system. So slowing the breath down, 222 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:28,520 extending the Excel, using short simple breath holds, just really 223 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:31,520 kind of fundamental tools and practices that we can start 224 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:35,840 implementing in both that preventive kind of proactive 225 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:40,280 way, but also in the moment. Yeah, I found that for me 226 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:44,640 personally, the breath in the moment when it comes to 227 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:49,520 relationship conversations, conflicts, navigating that and 228 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:53,520 being able to vocalize it says like, and you can't do it in 229 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:55,120 every situation. Like if you have a fucking 230 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:57,440 conflict at work and you haven't and then you go hang on a 231 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:00,040 minute, mate. Can I just take a breath and 232 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:02,960 then let me and let me get clear and then I'll get back. 233 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:06,680 But actually it's, I think I find like in more in intimate 234 00:13:06,680 --> 00:13:09,760 relationships where there's more understanding between the two of 235 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:12,360 you that you both want to navigate it in the right way to 236 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:18,160 be able to say to your partner, give me just needed to see in a 237 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:19,720 minute and I'm just going to breathe. 238 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:22,880 And then I'll be able to respond in a more effective way. 239 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:27,560 He's fucking super powerful. And I've also found for me as a 240 00:13:27,560 --> 00:13:30,680 guy, and I know this with working with men, that we 241 00:13:30,680 --> 00:13:33,120 process things over time. We need time. 242 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:35,840 We're like analytical, we're logical beings. 243 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:40,760 And the more time we have to process a response, the better 244 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:44,760 the response is going to be rather than reactive fuck you or 245 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:47,600 whatever comes out initially on a on a reaction. 246 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:52,920 I'd even go as far as to say like we should be able to in 247 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:56,560 whatever situation if we're if we're in ourselves and really 248 00:13:56,560 --> 00:13:59,520 kind of tune into ourselves, be able to say whether it's work 249 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:01,720 conflict, relationship conflict, whatever the conflict. 250 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:05,520 I'm going to call time out here like I'm going to go take a 251 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:07,160 minute and then we can come back to this. 252 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:11,160 Because I think there's just almost particularly, yeah, I'd 253 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:15,040 say kind of man to man in conflict. 254 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:21,040 There's a, a natural tendency towards reactivity and 255 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:24,280 competitiveness and, and that sort of macho energy that can 256 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:26,720 show up quite quickly and easily for all of us at times. 257 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:29,800 And I think in those moments, it's almost more of a testament 258 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:31,840 to where you can go. I'm going to take the 259 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:34,880 responsibility here to put a pause on this. 260 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:37,000 Otherwise, this is going to go in a way that I, I kind of 261 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:39,640 regret or, or that I don't want it to. 262 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:45,880 I think there's also a piece relationally, if we're thinking 263 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:48,960 romantic and intimate relationships and and parent 264 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:51,120 kind of father child relationships. 265 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:57,680 Where as a man in those scenarios, there is a, a sense, 266 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:02,560 I'd hope for most men that you do want to provide a, a stable, 267 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:07,040 sturdy, secure kind of base of strength for the people around 268 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:08,800 you. And actually, this goes beyond 269 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:10,960 just your, your home and family life. 270 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:12,920 This could be anywhere, this could be work as a leader, this 271 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:15,720 could be anything actually, just to be that, that pillar of, of 272 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:19,960 stability for people, certainly something that that I strive to 273 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:23,680 be. And your nervous system, I'd 274 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:26,400 argue, plays more of a role in that than your intellectual 275 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:28,520 capacity. Without realizing there's like 276 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:32,880 this unspoken dialogue that is going on right now between our 277 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:35,720 nervous systems, between anyone that you encounter, but 278 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:37,960 particularly people close to you because you're attuned to each 279 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:43,600 other. And if you can bring a grounded, 280 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:48,240 stable base to a challenging conversation or an uncomfortable 281 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:50,720 situation for your kids, for your colleagues, for your 282 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:53,880 partner, their nervous systems will will feel that. 283 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:59,760 And likely you see this most obviously with children as to 284 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:04,040 how much they feed off of the state of a parent's nervous 285 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:07,080 system. And so if you are frantic and 286 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:11,920 hectic and rushed and urgent, your kids going to spin out off 287 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:13,480 of that. And then you go, well, that's 288 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:14,840 why they're spinning out. And you know, what 289 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,240 responsibility are you taking for, for your role in that 290 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:19,280 scenario? And it's the same in, in every 291 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:22,200 one of our interactions. And so I think for, for men, for 292 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:27,360 everybody to be able to regulate yourself is, is such a powerful 293 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:30,360 form of accountability and responsibility to go, I'm going 294 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,840 to show up to this scenario in the best way that I can. 295 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:37,200 And that will give me the capacity to handle whatever I'm 296 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:40,960 faced with, even if this person isn't regulated, but also 297 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:44,840 showing up like that gives that person a chance to also 298 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:47,760 regulate. And so it's really just you're 299 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:50,320 taking ownership of that situation. 300 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:51,760 And that's that's super powerful. 301 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:56,240 Yeah, absolutely. I did see a study last week on 302 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:59,920 intimate relationships. The when you form deep intimate 303 00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:02,320 relationships, you begin to sync with each other's nervous 304 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:05,000 systems. So it's like the other person 305 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:11,359 energetically will be able to feel when you're off or your or 306 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:14,599 your your regulation is up in the air and it will also affect 307 00:17:14,599 --> 00:17:18,359 theirs too. I think we talk a lot and you 308 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:20,079 know, we've done it in this conversation as well and I'm 309 00:17:20,079 --> 00:17:22,800 glad we touched on both sides. But we talk a lot and the world 310 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:24,319 talks a lot about self regulation. 311 00:17:24,319 --> 00:17:26,520 Like you own your share, I'll own my share. 312 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:28,920 Like regulate yourself and everything will be fine. 313 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:31,880 But actually Co regulation, which is what we're talking 314 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:36,000 about here, is equally as important actually. 315 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:39,680 Are you surrounding yourself with people who are also taking 316 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:43,040 responsibility for themselves? But also in those moments for 317 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:45,880 all of us where we're actually really struggling to regulate 318 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,720 ourselves, Have you got someone who you, who can help you with 319 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:50,280 that, who can support you with that? 320 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:52,320 Whether that's a partner, whether that's a friend, whoever 321 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:57,080 it might be to actually in those moments where you're struggling, 322 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:01,800 help you re regulate and and Co regulate through them feeling 323 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,040 stable and then being able to provide that for other people as 324 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:05,520 well when you feel more, more stable. 325 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:10,080 So I think it's a it's much more collective piece than solely an 326 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:11,880 individual piece as well. For sure. 327 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:15,560 But just going back to what you said a second ago about guys 328 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:19,120 being conscious about regulating that and being like being the 329 00:18:19,120 --> 00:18:21,760 leader there for their own, for for themselves, and then helping 330 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:25,000 to lead other people, essentially the the, the arctop 331 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:29,080 of the king, right. But then there's forms, there's 332 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:32,920 the shadow forms of that. Yeah, tyrant and the weakling. 333 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:36,280 So it's like you can be a king, but you could be an aggressive 334 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:40,280 king where it's just like what you're doing is ultimately for 335 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:41,880 yourself and not for your people. 336 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:45,840 And that's that good. And I think as I've seen that in 337 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:48,840 leadership myself when I used to work in corporate, there were 338 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:53,120 guys the the managerial positions which were so 339 00:18:53,120 --> 00:18:57,400 essentially kings in leadership positions, but would lead 340 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:03,440 through aggression or force, Yeah, rather than lead through 341 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,440 actual real leadership, whether side by side with you. 342 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,360 Yeah, 100%. It's, it's something that I was 343 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:12,600 writing about a little while ago, this this sort of 344 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:15,760 difference between power over and power with. 345 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:19,440 And I think that's a really key thing for, for people to think 346 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:23,120 about in leadership and and just in life, which is there's long 347 00:19:23,120 --> 00:19:27,600 been this sense that to have influence and to lead. 348 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:30,520 There's this sense of power over whether it's aggression, whether 349 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:33,760 it's fear, whatever it might be, whether it's force is actually 350 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,200 going. The only way I can make someone 351 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:41,000 follow is by by forcing them to. And actually real kind of 352 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:46,560 empathy LED, regulated, balanced, grounded leadership is 353 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:50,200 about power with and it's that that sort of standing side by 354 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:56,040 side with people and using your power to support yourself and 355 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:58,960 others and sort of bring everybody up to, to to your 356 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:02,280 level or to the same level. And I think that's a really 357 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,160 subtle but important distinction as well. 358 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,920 Usually, yeah. In doing so, you, you raising 359 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,120 your level of consciousness raises other people's levels of 360 00:20:11,120 --> 00:20:13,360 consciousness, for sure. Yeah, it's mega powerful. 361 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:15,360 You read the book Power Versus Force. 362 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:17,240 Actually haven't. I think it's on my. 363 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:19,480 Bookshelf it's an incredible book. 364 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:23,360 It's an incredible book and it and in power versus force, like 365 00:20:23,360 --> 00:20:25,480 he talks about the levels, different levels of 366 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:30,160 consciousness that we all go through as human beings and the 367 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:35,520 effects that it can have on your family, your your children, but 368 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:39,600 also your city. And and for nations, it's like 369 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:44,400 someone in a real high state of consciousness, for example, 370 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:50,440 Jesus, right, or Mother Teresa or Nelson Mandela, kind of you 371 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:55,400 can affect an entire nation with their level of this, their 372 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:59,080 essentially their state. And so we, you know, we draw 373 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:04,920 that back into ourselves. Our state can affect hugely our 374 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:07,760 family and our teams and our businesses and the people around 375 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:08,640 us. Absolutely. 376 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:12,360 I always say this to retreat groups on, on retreats that I 377 00:21:12,360 --> 00:21:16,000 lead, which on the last day I'll be like, don't underestimate the 378 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:19,240 ripple effect of the work that you're doing on yourself because 379 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:21,600 it can feel when you're in that kind of environment. 380 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:25,360 You know, people there who are parents who are partners, almost 381 00:21:25,360 --> 00:21:28,920 feeling a little bit guilty because it's it's for them, 382 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:31,960 they're here for them. And I go put that to one side 383 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:33,640 because you're not just here for you. 384 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:36,800 And the fact that you're feeling that guilt shows that you're not 385 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,240 just here for you because you care deeply about the people in 386 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:41,240 your life. And actually the only way to 387 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:44,800 show up in the way that you want to for those people is to to do 388 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:47,600 this kind of work for yourself and, and on yourself. 389 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,400 And that ripple effective. Even I noticed it when I've come 390 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:55,880 back from experiences that that I've done for, for myself, where 391 00:21:56,000 --> 00:22:01,480 it's not just actually my immediate kind of relationships, 392 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:03,960 it's the stranger in this in the shop. 393 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:07,080 It's the, you know, the person that I don't get rage at when 394 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,640 I'm driving on the road. Like it's those subtle things 395 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:14,120 that then ripple out and it's really impactful. 396 00:22:14,120 --> 00:22:17,320 And, and that's why, you know, I love this work and, and 397 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:20,200 conversations like this because you, you don't know how far it's 398 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:23,040 going to knock on, even if it's just like a subtle shift in 399 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:24,760 somebody as well. Yeah, absolutely. 400 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,000 I say this to a lot of guys actually, and I fell into this, 401 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,560 this trap for many, many, many years of putting other people 402 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:34,920 first. Like put, usually when I put my 403 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,080 first business, there's always a team before me. 404 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,760 They always got paid before me. It was always, I was just the 405 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,480 nice people, pleasing, nice guy, putting most people before 406 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,240 myself. And it was when I learned that 407 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:49,200 when I'm great, everyone else around me is fucking great. 408 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,520 But only when I'm great. If I'm just good, everyone else 409 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:56,000 around me is OK, That they're OK, right? 410 00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:00,680 It needs to be that we are #1 the self-care for ourselves, our 411 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,320 inner growth, our personal development, whatever that looks 412 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:05,840 like. We are #1 and in doing so, 413 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:07,840 everyone else is fucking extraordinary. 414 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:09,640 Yeah. And I think, I think it's, it 415 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,200 can be seasonal as well. You know, I've just been through 416 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:18,280 a period in my own life where I need, I'd fallen into that, that 417 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:22,520 place of, of not putting myself 1st and, and letting a lot of 418 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:24,760 the things that I was doing to take care of myself kind of 419 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:26,600 slide a little bit because I thought I was good. 420 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,200 And I found myself in a place where I wasn't feeling 421 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,000 particularly good. And I, I've just come out of, 422 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:34,640 you know, six weeks or so of, of really focusing on me. 423 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:37,640 And, you know, my partner's been incredibly supportive through 424 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,360 that. But now that I feel in a much 425 00:23:40,360 --> 00:23:43,480 better place, yes, I'm keeping the practices there. 426 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:44,880 They're going to help me stay there. 427 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:48,520 But I'm then going, OK, well, what can I do to support, you 428 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:52,920 know, and, and help her with herself and just be that, you 429 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,640 know, to come back to that at previous point like that pillar 430 00:23:55,640 --> 00:24:00,720 of of stability, because I think that is what allows the people 431 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:04,200 around you just to feel safe and secure to then go and do what 432 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,240 they need to do for themselves. Absolutely. 433 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:08,960 But you're doing that from shaky grounds. 434 00:24:09,360 --> 00:24:11,400 Yeah, your foundations are shocking. 435 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,240 It's like it's it's fucking hard to support other people when 436 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,360 inside you're fucking going for your own turmoil. 437 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,120 And then resentment kicks in and all sorts kicks in. 438 00:24:19,120 --> 00:24:22,840 And then it's like, like we said earlier, the other person can 439 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:24,440 feel that. Yeah, exactly. 440 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,440 They know. Especially women. 441 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:28,840 They know. They they know before we fucking 442 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:29,400 know. Deep. 443 00:24:30,120 --> 00:24:31,960 Why are you off? How did you freaking know? 444 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:33,120 Yeah. I didn't even know. 445 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:36,480 Yeah, exactly, exactly. I think there's I one of the 446 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:40,160 things that I've kind of worked through this year or, or one of 447 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:44,360 the challenges I've faced this faced this year has been a, a 448 00:24:44,360 --> 00:24:48,440 sense of feeling a little uncertain in myself in terms of 449 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:49,800 like, what am I doing? Where am I going? 450 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:51,560 Like what's, what's the point of all this? 451 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:56,920 And that's been very like ego LED and kind of surface level. 452 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:02,000 And I, I noticed actually that if I had that sense of 453 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:08,120 uncertainty within myself, all of a sudden people around me 454 00:25:08,120 --> 00:25:11,160 felt less certain because it's contagious. 455 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,480 If if you're, as you said, kind of on shaky ground, then people 456 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:18,720 pick up on that and sense that. And so it's really that that 457 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:22,240 move towards can I do the things that I need to do to feel better 458 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,560 myself rather than trying to convince somebody that I'm OK or 459 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:29,120 that I'm certain of myself, actually do the work to to build 460 00:25:29,120 --> 00:25:31,680 that within yourself. And then actually it just shifts 461 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:33,760 and it flicks like that for other people as well. 462 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,240 Yeah. The thing is the knock on 463 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,040 effect, if you think about the knock on effect of not looking 464 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,160 after yourself, not looking after your regulation system. 465 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:48,560 So say you're on shaky grounds. Yeah, it then leads to your own 466 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,360 uncertainty. You're you don't feel stable in 467 00:25:51,360 --> 00:25:54,160 yourself. Well, the dynamics for that in a 468 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,240 relationship, say you're in an intimate relationship with a 469 00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:01,960 woman, like one of her core drivers for you will be 470 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:04,720 stability. Like I'm, I'm I want that 471 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:08,440 security in my partner, in my man that he's got that because 472 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:12,560 it's a very masculine trait to have that stability soon as that 473 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,920 if that unshakiness is there for it can be there for a short 474 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:19,760 period, sure, But if it's there for a long fucking period, the 475 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,960 pole, the polarity in a relationship can change. 476 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,720 And that's where you see the dynamics change and the woman 477 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:29,200 takes more the masculine energy. The man seeps down into more of 478 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:31,560 a feminine energy in the market. And it doesn't work for 479 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:36,040 relationships long term. It just goes back to you guys. 480 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,680 You got to pick yourself first. 100% And I think it's that that 481 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:47,160 conscious, empathetic self-care and self work to go, I'm doing 482 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,680 this for me, but I'm also doing this for everybody else. 483 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,800 And yeah, just always, always checking back in with that 484 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:57,560 because I do think there are forms of the kind of self 485 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:01,800 development conversation that do verge on selfishness and 486 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:05,280 selfishness in its shadowy form. And I think so it's just really 487 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,200 important, I think for everybody just to keep checking in with, 488 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:12,200 you know, maybe you reach a point where you're like, 489 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,720 actually, I'm good. I don't need to keep chasing 490 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:18,280 this mystery place of like always improving, always 491 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:20,440 improving, always improving. Because that's also a surefire 492 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,160 way to make sure that you never feel good enough if you're like, 493 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:24,400 oh, I've still got somewhere to be. 494 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:27,960 And we're kind of constantly reaching outside of ourselves 495 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:32,320 for this mythical place that's actually just self acceptance 496 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,160 and stillness, actually being like, I'm good, I'm fine. 497 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:37,840 Yeah, there's a valid, there's a fucking valid point, 498 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:39,760 particularly in the self development industry because it 499 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:43,360 can be very addictive just to keep going. 100%. 500 00:27:43,360 --> 00:27:47,600 Keep doing more work, more inner work, the next retreat, the next 501 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,520 course, the next program, whatever, whatever, whatever to 502 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,480 seek the next level of answer. Well, it's what the industry is 503 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:55,160 built on, right? Yes, you are broken. 504 00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,000 I've got the solution. Come and pay me. 505 00:27:57,640 --> 00:27:59,360 Three steps. It only cost you 997. 506 00:27:59,360 --> 00:28:00,560 Exactly. And then you never get an 507 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:02,200 answer. And then it's like, oh, but 508 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,040 yeah, if you just sign up to the next thing, then then you might 509 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:06,200 have the answer. And actually, actually the 510 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:08,760 answer is that there's there's no answer like that. 511 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,760 I always try and position my workers supporting people 512 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:15,360 through the process that ultimately is life. 513 00:28:15,360 --> 00:28:18,120 And a retreat might form a small journey as part of a bigger 514 00:28:18,120 --> 00:28:20,560 journey. But actually really emphasizing 515 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:22,840 the fact that there is no end goal. 516 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:28,640 Like the end goal, if there is one, is to to lean into self 517 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:34,760 acceptance so that you can just be good with you and have your 518 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,160 own back, have other people's back and and just be able to 519 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,920 move through life from a place of, of legitimate peace. 520 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:44,120 I think that's that to me feels like the the goal rather than 521 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,520 just perpetuating the cycle of you need fixing. 522 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,840 Yeah, yeah. Well, selfless, like acceptance 523 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:55,320 is, it's your authenticity. And yeah, that's what we all 524 00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,720 crave for, is to just to be truly authentic. 525 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:00,600 RIP off all the fucking masks. Get out. 526 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,200 Get rid of it. Yeah, they ourselves. 527 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:05,680 Easier said than done, right? Fucking easier said than done. 528 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:09,120 Yeah, because particularly if our egos have been there for a 529 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,200 long, long, long, long time in our 30s. 530 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,400 Thirty odd years. I don't want to go. 531 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,600 Yeah, I I've too. I found the, the event that we 532 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:20,560 met at the, the men's event was the workout and the, the breath 533 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,240 work in the panel really interesting from that 534 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:28,160 perspective, because I didn't realise I was chatting to my 535 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:29,720 mate Bradley who was there afterwards. 536 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:35,440 I, I hadn't realized how much internal sort of almost 537 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:40,560 prejudice that I held around like male fitness kind of 538 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:42,720 communities. Because it's not really, I'm not 539 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,160 a CrossFit guy. I'm not a, you know, I don't do 540 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:47,760 a lot of group workout stuff in that, in that capacity with with 541 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,360 other blokes, particularly jiu jitsu, but it's quite it feels 542 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,960 quite different. And I definitely went into 543 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:59,600 expecting a lot more bravado, a lot more kind of mask up, real 544 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,720 ego posturing. And by the end of the day, I was 545 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:05,760 like, I couldn't have been more wrong. 546 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:07,600 Like the level of openness, particularly there. 547 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,880 And I think it's massive credit to to Pele who who organized the 548 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,920 the thing, the work that he's done in himself and the kind of 549 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:16,160 people that he surrounds himself with. 550 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,560 But I was definitely surprised, pleasantly surprised, but 551 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:25,520 surprised at how open, how receptive, how aware those guys 552 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:29,000 were. And I don't know why I was not 553 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:30,920 expecting it. But for whatever reason, I still 554 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:34,760 had this maybe old view that, you know, if you're a CrossFit 555 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,640 bloke or if you're, you know, someone who loves the gym, that 556 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:41,320 there's, there's that the ego might be a bit stronger than 557 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,400 perhaps elsewhere. But yeah, I was. 558 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:45,440 I enjoyed being proved wrong for sure. 559 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:48,080 Yeah, I learned the same lesson a few years back. 560 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:50,920 Yeah, Yeah. And I and I learned that. 561 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,400 And my buddy Robert Glover, who wrote, he wrote the book No More 562 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,360 Mr. Nice Guy. Oh, yeah, he taught me this. 563 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,320 And when he, when he first spoke about it, I didn't quite get it 564 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:10,200 because he was like Pete. The masculine men, we bring 565 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:14,560 love, we give love. The feminine receives it. 566 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,560 And, and he was talking to me about it in like big male 567 00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:20,720 scenarios. He's like, I love being around 568 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,080 loads and loads of guys because there's so much love there. 569 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,520 And I was like, yeah, yeah, I get, I get I can intellectualize 570 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:28,520 that. And when I started to experience 571 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,480 it, hosting these big events with lots of guys, I'm like, 572 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,040 fucking hell. The whole room is like people 573 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:37,360 drop the egos. The whole room is full of love, 574 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:42,800 really, really giving. And I, and I know for me for 575 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:46,000 many, many years when I was married especially, I was 576 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:50,360 expecting my woman to give the love to, to like bring all the 577 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:52,960 love into the household. That was my just my 578 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,080 expectations. I suppose we've been brought up. 579 00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,040 But actually, as soon as I learned it was, it was up to me 580 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:01,280 to bring the love. And as soon as I brought that 581 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:05,200 love in, because the the masculine brings he gives, then 582 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,360 she would receive and then there'd be fucking in flood. 583 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:10,400 There'd be loads of love throughout the whole household 584 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:12,800 because she would open up, right? 585 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,920 And I learned that Same in men's spaces, guys, they give. 586 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:23,120 Yeah, I think it's, it really speaks for me at least to in 587 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:31,000 spaces like that, how much men want to drop the mask but 588 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:35,280 struggle to until they're given almost a space to do it. 589 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,040 But when they are given the space to do, it happens quickly. 590 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:39,720 And then it happens collectively. 591 00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,240 And everyone's like, it's like a collective sigh of relief, 592 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:43,280 fucking out. Jesus. 593 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:45,800 Like, I can, I can relax. Because I think there is this 594 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:49,200 pressure. And it's something I think about 595 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:53,120 a lot with Stoicism as a concept and as a philosophy, because I 596 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:58,520 think somewhere along the way it got muddled and we interpreted 597 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:03,040 Stoicism as this like stiff upper lip, non feeling peace. 598 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:05,520 I think it's like cutting yourself off from your feelings 599 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,960 rather than actually emotional mastery, which is the capacity 600 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:13,800 to feel it all and still remain relatively balanced and give 601 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:18,280 yourself space to feel, but also hold that and be be strong and, 602 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:22,280 and stoic within that. And so I think it's this slight 603 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:29,440 legacy of that where we feel a pressure to show up unwaveringly 604 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,280 without feeling. And then we end up repressing 605 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:34,400 stuff and repressing stuff and repressing stuff and wondering 606 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,920 why we feel so terrible. And so I think it's just 607 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:42,000 actually rewiring and rewriting this concept of, you know, 608 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,920 openness. And, you know, I know people get 609 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,480 rubbed up the wrong way by the word vulnerability, but real, 610 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,640 real vulnerability of the capacity to feel it all, to show 611 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:52,360 up authentically. There's nothing more vulnerable 612 00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:56,200 than showing up authentically. And the strength that then comes 613 00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:00,720 with that when you allow yourself to to do that, to not 614 00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,000 be affected by things in the same way, to have that 615 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:06,240 regulation, to have that kind of understanding of yourself and 616 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:09,000 just be able to continue to show up in a way that's consistent 617 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:15,040 for everybody around you. 100% talking about regulating and 618 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:21,639 let's go into a little bit how to write for some of the guys, 619 00:34:21,639 --> 00:34:24,840 whether they're just starting out or whether they've been 620 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:28,520 doing it for a little while. Where's the best place to start 621 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:33,320 with beginning breath work? Yeah, I think if we come back to 622 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:39,560 those 3 pillars, the, you know, the most fundamental place to 623 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:43,639 start is, is awareness. So this is about, you know, 624 00:34:43,639 --> 00:34:46,040 hopefully through the course of this conversation, there've been 625 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:47,960 a couple of moments where someone's just going, oh, how am 626 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,040 I actually breathing? What, what is my breath doing? 627 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,400 And whether it's been 30 years, 40 years, 50 years of never 628 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,960 having done that, to do that is quite a powerful first step. 629 00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,480 And all of a sudden you just realize whether it's when you 630 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:03,320 feel good, whether it's when you feel shit, whether it's when you 631 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:07,600 feel tired, anxious, angry, whatever it might be, how are 632 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:09,320 you breathing? And you just start to notice 633 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:10,680 that. You start just checking in with 634 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,600 it more as a bit of a reference point as to how am I feeling? 635 00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:18,000 And often for me, powerful place as well as if I'm not quite sure 636 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:21,080 what's up, if I'm just like, oh, I don't feel my best, but I 637 00:35:21,240 --> 00:35:22,920 can't quite put my finger on why. 638 00:35:24,240 --> 00:35:26,400 How am I breathing? And just using that as almost 639 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,400 your your marker of what is going on for me. 640 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,360 Can I come back to myself over and over again and just start, 641 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:34,120 start again? How am I breathing? 642 00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:36,760 And so that first piece of just checking in with it, I think is 643 00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,480 step one. And then it's starting to 644 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:44,080 implement and integrate very, very simple, but very, very 645 00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,760 effective ways of shifting your breath. 646 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:51,200 So that could be you take one of those moments where you check in 647 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:54,080 with your breath, could be on the tube, you could be answering 648 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,960 emails, you could be in the gym and just starting to slow the 649 00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:01,440 breath down, Starting to again, maybe for the first time, 650 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,120 consciously, intentionally engage with your breath. 651 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:06,520 All of those principles of functional breathing, of 652 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,720 breathing slowly through the nose, deeply, gently, just 653 00:36:09,720 --> 00:36:12,520 starting to gradually slow it down and noticing how that 654 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:15,320 feels, noticing how the body responds, how the mind responds. 655 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,920 There are, you know, we could list off technique after 656 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:23,160 technique, but I think those two are probably the starting point. 657 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,400 The only thing I'd probably throw in there is as an extra 658 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:31,360 pieces, probably my go to in terms of regulation techniques 659 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:34,040 of extended exhale. Breathing really simple. 660 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,080 I would usually go in through the nose, blow the exhale out of 661 00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:39,440 the mouth, make the exhale longer than the inhale. 662 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:43,040 If we make our exhale longer than our inhale, then heart rate 663 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:46,120 starts to slow, nervous system starts to settle, and your whole 664 00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:49,880 body just starts to decompress. And so that one, you know, if 665 00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:53,080 people just want like one thing, don't want to overcomplicate it, 666 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,360 that would be kind of where I would start people with the 667 00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:59,960 awareness, gently slowing your natural breath, extended exhale, 668 00:36:59,960 --> 00:37:02,800 breathing. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 669 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,040 The extended exhale is such an easy one. 670 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:08,320 Just to calm down. Yeah. 671 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,000 Just to chill out internally, yeah. 672 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:14,800 Yeah, it's, it's universal. You know, there aren't many 673 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:18,080 people. I'm yet to find a person rather 674 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:20,680 than saying everybody. I'm yet to find a person in, you 675 00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:26,480 know, six years of doing this work who doesn't feel better in 676 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:28,960 whatever form that is more balanced, more calm, less 677 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:35,200 anxious from doing 3 to 50 cycles of that breath. 678 00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,640 It seems to be the one that scratches most itches, 679 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,880 particularly at a time where most of us are struggling with 680 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,320 stress and anxiety in some form. Yeah, what about? 681 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:50,320 What about for mental performance and energy 682 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:51,720 enhancement? Focus. 683 00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:57,120 So this is where I guess we're talking about these two levers 684 00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,040 that we have with the breath within the nervous system, 685 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:01,160 extended Excel very much kind of the brake pedal. 686 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:03,520 And then we've got this other side, which is how do we 687 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:07,440 introduce a level of activation into the nervous system to 688 00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:12,240 create energy, to create focus, to create flow. 689 00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:16,120 And also if you find yourself feeling a bit sluggish and 690 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,040 lethargic and stagnant, like how do you lift yourself out of that 691 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,320 state? And so this is where we'd go 692 00:38:21,720 --> 00:38:24,840 with something a bit quicker, a bit more active, a bit more, 693 00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:29,520 let's use the term lightly, a bit more aggressive in terms of 694 00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:32,440 how we breathe. So something like probably the 695 00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:34,520 more extreme end of that spectrum, like the Wim Hof 696 00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:37,080 method, sort of super ventilation where it's in and 697 00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:41,520 out of the mouth, really starting to build that charge 698 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:45,200 within your system. But anything around that where 699 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:51,480 you're breathing quicker at more volume, I really like sort of we 700 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:53,680 call like a power breath in through the nose, out of the 701 00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:58,200 mouth or just just really starting to create that energy. 702 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:03,640 And then also a really, really kind of universally famous one 703 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:07,440 of box breathing, which is a bit more about balance and focus 704 00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,680 rather than energy and focus. So for anyone who's not familiar 705 00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:13,920 with their in for four, hold for four, out for four, hold for 706 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:16,720 four, and that's just going to help to bring you into a really 707 00:39:16,720 --> 00:39:20,560 nice kind of centered state. Those little breath holds help 708 00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:25,000 to just increase increase clarity and focus in the mind as 709 00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:27,440 well. So any of those where we're just 710 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,160 starting to build the energy, but also sort of rebalance and 711 00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:32,960 refocus as well. Yeah, yeah, what am I? 712 00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:38,480 I said to some of my guys this morning as I'm talking to Jamie, 713 00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:41,800 got any questions for him? There's a few that came through, 714 00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:45,800 but one of the interesting ones, there's no number of the guys in 715 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:49,480 one of our groups, they have focused on their performance, 716 00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:54,920 their mental performance and one of them asked about how to 717 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,440 optimize his HIV. Is that is that any? 718 00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:01,480 Would you would you suggest anything around that for 719 00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:02,880 optimizing that sleep performance? 720 00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:08,840 Yeah, it's an interesting one with with HRV because it's it's 721 00:40:09,240 --> 00:40:13,080 so HRV heart rate variability, it's probably our best 722 00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:17,280 measurable metric of autonomic nervous system regulation. 723 00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:20,280 So all the stuff we talked about about balance and focus and 724 00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:25,160 calm. One thing that I would say kind 725 00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:28,120 of my right, my real blunt answer to that question would be 726 00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:30,920 the more that you've obsessed over your HRV, the worse your 727 00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:34,760 HRV is going to become. I, I'm a firm believer that 728 00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:36,280 we're too obsessed with our health. 729 00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,560 And it's actually what did I write yesterday? 730 00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:41,760 No amount of bio hacks will overcome your obsessive stress 731 00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:44,160 about your health. And so that's probably the first 732 00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:45,480 piece. But if, if we wanted to go 733 00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:49,880 right, what, what could you do if you wanted to improve HRV 734 00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:56,480 would be a lot of the stuff that we talked about South, typically 735 00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:03,080 low HRV is where we're seeing poor autonomic regulation, 736 00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:07,800 usually chronic stress, poor sleep, things like that. 737 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:12,800 And so if we wanted to increase HRV, we'd want to move towards 738 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,960 greater regulation. So if you are chronically 739 00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:21,800 stressed, anxious, low HRV, then extended exhale, breathing, box 740 00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:26,200 breathing, anything that's more balancing a daily practice of 10 741 00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:28,680 to 20 minutes, thirty minutes, 40 minutes, depending how much 742 00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:32,920 time you've got. And that built up over time will 743 00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:35,000 have a positive knock on effect on HIV. 744 00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:39,480 So it's a helpful metric, but also checking it daily doesn't 745 00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:42,240 really tell us much because it's more about the trend of HIV to 746 00:41:42,240 --> 00:41:44,680 see what kind of direction you're going in when it comes to 747 00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:47,120 overall regulation. Yeah, Yeah, that makes sense. 748 00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:52,240 OK, Jay, I'll tell you what, let's one one thing because I'm 749 00:41:52,240 --> 00:41:53,960 going to wrap this up and then we'll do another one. 750 00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:55,560 Then we'll go a little bit deep on something else. 751 00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:58,640 If guys want to find you, where do they go? 752 00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:03,280 Thebreathspace.co.uk and Jamie Clements under score on 753 00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:05,080 Instagram. OK, right. 754 00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:06,320 And team, we're going to do another one. 755 00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:07,520 So TuneIn to the next one.