1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:04,880 Andrew Tate and the psychologist that interviewed him and got 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:08,600 into his brain. David Sutcliffe joins me on 3 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:11,200 today's episode. We're going to talk Tate. 4 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:15,440 We're going to talk modern masculinity and the challenges 5 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:19,320 that men are facing right now. Enjoy the episode, chaps. 6 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:23,480 It's got some gold in it. David, welcome into the podcast, 7 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:24,320 mate. How you doing I'm? 8 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:27,240 Good, happy to be here. Good. 9 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:29,040 So you're all the way in Mexico City? 10 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:32,560 I'm all the way in London. We were just discussing that. 11 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:34,640 It's nice and grey here and you've got a bit of sun over. 12 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:37,360 There it is sunny in Mexico, although where I am it, it's 13 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:39,080 been raining. It's the rainy season. 14 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:43,640 It rains every night, which is just delightful because you wake 15 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:46,040 up and everything feels refreshed and and then sleeping 16 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:49,880 in the rain is just incredible. So have it all here. 17 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:52,800 Amazing, mate. Let's let's jump in because I 18 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:56,040 want to talk about at least I'll start with the interview with, 19 00:00:56,120 --> 00:01:00,200 with Tate. So that's a popular interview is 20 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:03,520 6/6 and a half, 6.7 something like million views. 21 00:01:04,879 --> 00:01:08,240 And I've watched that interview twice, once recently and once 22 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:11,680 when you first released it. Super, super interesting. 23 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:16,160 And I, and I feel for the first time with Andrew that you pulled 24 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:20,960 out some more of his vulnerable sides and more of his playful 25 00:01:20,960 --> 00:01:23,280 side. And there were some really 26 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:26,440 interesting points that you pulled out of them there. 27 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:32,440 But here's one that I get a lot. And I actually get like when, 28 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:38,080 particularly with ladies, when they, they see the work that 29 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:40,240 that we do guys. And Oh, you, you like Andrew 30 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:43,680 Tate then. And I'm like with Gov and I'm 31 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:46,040 like, no, not really. But I mean, Andrew's got a lot 32 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:50,520 of good, good points about him. But my question and, or, or my 33 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:57,160 thoughts that I'd love to hear from you is when guys, whether 34 00:01:57,160 --> 00:02:00,640 they're in their 20s or in their 30s or 40s and they're engaging 35 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:07,880 with polarizing figures like Tate, how do they do that but 36 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:10,240 without losing their own sense of direction? 37 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:14,680 That's, that's a great question. Listen, I don't think anybody 38 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:17,280 should adopt another man as their guru. 39 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:21,960 I think it's important to take information from all kinds of 40 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:23,720 people. And Tate certainly has a lot of 41 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:27,960 very interesting things to say. He has a powerful message and 42 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:30,440 he's got his own perspective, his own, his own point of view 43 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:32,480 that may not be right for for everybody. 44 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:35,280 So I think it's important to listen to yourself. 45 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,800 I mean, ultimately, all self development should be about 46 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:43,920 learning to trust yourself, about learning to know yourself, 47 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:49,080 understanding what you want, how you relate to the world, what it 48 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:51,680 is that you want to give, where you're oriented. 49 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:55,960 If you're following some protocol, some somebody else's 50 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:58,000 thing. Like even with Andrew Huberman 51 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:02,000 and all the information that he comes, this is the optimal 52 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:06,080 morning routine. You know, I, I think, and I say 53 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:08,600 this to all my clients, that you, you have to find your own 54 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:10,320 way. I mean, that's what we're what 55 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:12,920 empowerment truly is like. You have to find your own way 56 00:03:12,920 --> 00:03:15,400 of, to navigate it for yourself. So it's important to take 57 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:17,840 information from all kinds of people, but ultimately develop 58 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:20,280 your own thing. So that's a hard thing to do 59 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:22,680 when you're young and you're vulnerable and you don't know 60 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:24,480 what the hell is going on. And maybe you grew up without a 61 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:25,920 father. And then you see somebody like 62 00:03:25,920 --> 00:03:28,800 take come along and he's got such a powerful message and he's 63 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:31,600 so emphatic about it and, and persuasive. 64 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:33,080 It's, it's easy to get hooked into that. 65 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:34,960 And there's some danger in that certainly. 66 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:40,040 And I think that's why people are are critical of tape. 67 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:43,800 I don't, but I don't, I don't think you should follow anybody 68 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:45,920 blindly. And that that's the message that 69 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:47,640 I'm trying to articulate to people. 70 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:50,840 Even, you know, when I'm working with them, it's like, here's 71 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:52,880 what I have to say. Take her to leave it, take 72 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:54,560 what's useful, throw away the rest. 73 00:03:56,680 --> 00:04:00,360 So, yeah, I mean, that's all I would say about that, I think. 74 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:06,000 Yeah, I mean, because there are there are a lot of young guys 75 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:11,760 that are idolizing Andrew and, and, and are following him And 76 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:16,200 what why do you think that is? Well, I think that he men have 77 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,839 been demoralized by the culture. I don't, I don't think that that 78 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:21,800 this, you know, the war against men. 79 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:25,240 I, I think that that's real toxic masculinity. 80 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:28,560 This, this phrase, this ubiquitous phrase, you know, 81 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:32,000 which they claim doesn't mean that masculinity is toxic, but 82 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:36,560 that's how it sounds. That's how it feels to people. 83 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:40,280 And especially if you're a young person, that's, that's the 84 00:04:40,280 --> 00:04:41,840 message you get. There's something wrong with you 85 00:04:41,840 --> 00:04:47,560 being wanting to be, you know, aggressive or dominant, wanting 86 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:52,520 to win, wanting to accumulate money and, and have cars and, 87 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:54,720 and all of that. And, and, and of course there's 88 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:58,880 a shadow to all of it. But I think because men have 89 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:05,800 felt, yeah, demoralized, they felt shamed, excluded, made bad. 90 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:10,680 And I think Tate speaks to that take, stands up and says this is 91 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:13,840 what I think, this is what I believe, this is what it is to 92 00:05:13,840 --> 00:05:16,720 be a man. And I think that resonates for a 93 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:18,120 lot of people because it makes them. 94 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:21,000 It makes them feel empowered in a place where they've been 95 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:23,520 otherwise shamed. Yeah, yeah. 96 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:28,480 And a lot of the guys that we work with within right man 97 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:36,280 Workman, probably like 90% of the guys are mid 30s, mid 40s 98 00:05:36,280 --> 00:05:41,000 that, that, that sort of range. So it isn't just young guys, but 99 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:43,840 there is a big confusion as to what it, what it means to be a 100 00:05:43,840 --> 00:05:50,320 man like into the like now. And, and a lot of guys are very, 101 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:53,440 I want to say scared, but they're definitely like, they're 102 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:57,320 treading on the lines of caution as to what do I, you know, do I 103 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:00,160 assert my needs? Do do, do I speak up? 104 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,040 Like and if I do that do I come across as toxic? 105 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:05,520 What the fuck? Yeah. 106 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:08,880 Am I being too feminine? Am I being too masculine? 107 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:11,960 I fucking don't know what to do so I won't do anything. 108 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:17,400 Yeah, yeah. And again, I, I understand that 109 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:20,480 it is confusing times. You know, if you think about 110 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:26,120 whatever 50 years ago and beyond, men's role in the 111 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:30,000 culture in the family was really clear and obvious, provide and 112 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:34,680 protect and that was it. Loving your wife and children 113 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:38,400 was kind of optional in the sense because, because we were 114 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:40,360 just trying to survive and get by. 115 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:45,040 And now that we're in a different phase of, of 116 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:50,280 development, different evolution of, of society and you know, 117 00:06:50,280 --> 00:06:54,400 women are out in the workforce and taking their place. 118 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:57,000 I, I think a lot of men and myself included, just like, 119 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:00,120 what, what am I doing? What, what's, what is my role if 120 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:04,600 I'm not providing and protecting for my woman, for my family? 121 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:07,360 What, what am I actually doing here? 122 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:09,360 And I think it becomes very confusing. 123 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:13,680 And, and I think the, as I said, I think there's been a lot of 124 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:18,840 negative pushback against men and, and listen, in some ways 125 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:23,880 for good reason, you know, men have abused their power. 126 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:30,400 But I think that the patriarchy, quote UN quote, the patriarchy 127 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:33,240 is just the natural order of things. 128 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:37,000 And people don't like to talk about that. 129 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:40,040 They don't want to admit that. But I, I don't know too many 130 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:45,400 women that don't truly want to be led by a man. 131 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:51,760 That's where they, most of them at all feel most comfortable, 132 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:57,440 most relaxed, most free. And, you know, obviously the 133 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:01,800 dynamics have changed, but I think it's important for men to 134 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:06,680 hold on to the goodness of what that is. 135 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:09,600 I mean, patriarchy's got a, a, a bad rap. 136 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:13,600 But really at its core, what are you there to do? 137 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,440 You know, you create the structure, you create the 138 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:22,320 boundaries, you provide the safety and you provide and you 139 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:26,400 protect. Well, that's a noble thing, if 140 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:31,680 you think about it now it, it can become distorted and become 141 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:33,679 tyrannical. And it has and that's why the 142 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:36,880 pushback. But at its core, at its root, 143 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:40,280 it's, it's, it's divine and it's good. 144 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:45,600 And so reminding men of that, that really what what is their 145 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:48,960 role is to be of service and from that place and that there's 146 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:50,880 a responsibility that they have to lead. 147 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:56,920 Even if you are not seen, understood, appreciated, you 148 00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:01,320 have to continue to lead. Excuse me in in your way. 149 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:06,680 Also, I think it there is an evolution happening where where 150 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:13,120 men do need to come more in touch with their feelings to 151 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:17,360 understand themselves emotionally in a deeper way. 152 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:21,600 That's what I was trying to get to with Tate, that understanding 153 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:24,960 yourself emotionally is an asset. 154 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:28,280 It gives you more power because you're more present. 155 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:33,040 And the more present you can be, the more of service that you can 156 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:34,880 be. And if you're repressing your 157 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:39,760 emotions, you're going to act out in distorted and destructive 158 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:41,640 ways. So I think men are in a in a 159 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:44,600 process of, of learning how to do that. 160 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:49,840 And I think unfortunately, a lot of the psychothera 161 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:55,160 psychotherapeutic community, for better for worse, is it's 162 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:58,280 dominated by women. I mean, that's just a fact, 163 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:02,520 right? Eighty, 7080% of psychologists 164 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:05,920 are, are women. And so there's a, a bias that's 165 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:07,360 inherent. I went through that in my 166 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:10,920 training and I confronted it. I confronted the, the school. 167 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:13,280 I said, hey, there's a, there's a female bias here. 168 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:16,600 You guys, you don't really understand men. 169 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:20,240 And there was a lot of pushback against that. 170 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:26,000 People were upset and felt attacked and, but in the end, 171 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:29,720 they, they started to understand that, that I was actually right, 172 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:32,400 that I, that I had a point. And of course, of course, any, 173 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:35,800 if you have a, you know, if one industry is dominated by men, 174 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:37,960 there's going to be a masculine bias and an industry that's 175 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:41,360 dominated by women, there's going to be a, a feminine bias. 176 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:42,960 That's just, you know, that's fine. 177 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:46,000 But so I think it's important that more and more men like 178 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:49,040 yourself are, are getting involved in these spaces and, 179 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:53,840 and bringing their perspective forward and, and sharing, 180 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:58,480 sharing that and, and, and also claiming their authority. 181 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:02,320 Like it's, it's important that all of us should claim our 182 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:03,960 authority. I don't mean authority over, but 183 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:09,080 I mean your, your personal authority and that that you know 184 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:12,440 something and there there's impulses and instincts that you 185 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:14,880 have and they're there for a reason. 186 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:17,960 And it's important that you obey them, Listen to them. 187 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:20,480 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And what, what you, what you 188 00:11:20,560 --> 00:11:24,800 said earlier about more, more guys embodying their femininity 189 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:31,080 and, and, and embodying feeling the feelings and being OK with 190 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:33,360 that. Because I and I go through this 191 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:37,120 with, with, with so many men that, that we work with, it's, 192 00:11:37,680 --> 00:11:39,760 it's like, don't, I don't know how to get in touch with the 193 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:41,080 feelings. I've kind of suppressed them for 194 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:44,000 a long time. My father or father's very 195 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:48,880 emotionally detached, didn't, didn't allow us or show us how 196 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:51,480 to feel our feelings. I was like, how, how do we do 197 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:55,480 that without coming across way too feminine and going way too 198 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:58,080 far the other way? And then we're in an emotional 199 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:01,960 mess with our, with our partners telling them everything. 200 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:04,720 So is there is there a bit of a medium here? 201 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:08,640 Yeah, yeah, I mean, the pendulum always swings, right? 202 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,680 And so there may be a period of time where men overshare, they 203 00:12:11,680 --> 00:12:16,360 become too emotional because there was so much repression. 204 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:20,320 But and that's a that's a necessary part of it. 205 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:23,000 And then you come back to balance. 206 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:25,240 I mean, I did that when I first started doing this work. 207 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:27,440 I I share, I wanted to share everything all the time. 208 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:33,720 And it was in my feminine and, and bringing all of this to my 209 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:36,200 woman, thinking that it, I was being vulnerable. 210 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:41,800 And it wasn't until later that I realized that that's not, that's 211 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:46,760 not the right place to share. That's my my feelings and 212 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:49,920 emotions that I need to do that with, with other men. 213 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:54,800 And I think it's important that we stay present with our our 214 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:57,480 woman, but we have to be discerning about what what it is 215 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:02,160 that we share and when. So I think that's just a natural 216 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:04,840 process. And it's, it's a refinement and 217 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:08,480 it's learning to be discerning. But in general, I think it's 218 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:13,200 really important that men have spaces where they can express 219 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,000 themselves. And because there's a little boy 220 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:23,840 inside every man who was hurt, who was afraid, who was, who was 221 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:28,560 angry because of the circumstances, we all got to 222 00:13:28,560 --> 00:13:32,120 some degree wounded or traumatized through a childhood. 223 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:35,760 That's just the nature of life. And it's important that those 224 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:40,640 feelings are acknowledged, known within us, and not shame, not 225 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:44,440 judged, not made bad or weak. They're just there. 226 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:47,280 They're neutral. And so having a place where you 227 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:53,560 can go and express them, explore them, be witnessed, be seen, see 228 00:13:53,560 --> 00:14:00,200 that other men feel the same way, I think is very liberating 229 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:03,640 and comforting for men. And then in that process, I 230 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:08,360 think they can learn to be more they they become more 231 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:11,000 integrated, become more whole, and then they can be more 232 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:15,000 discerning out in the world about how and what to share. 233 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:20,920 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And that, that, that I, I have, 234 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:26,080 I have found that the guys that come into our world, they, it 235 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:29,720 takes them quite some time to, to actually come in and go all 236 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:32,280 right, I'm going to, I'm going to talk to a bunch of guys about 237 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:35,760 my shit. They, they most, most guys. 238 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:38,320 But on the outside are going now that looks like sometimes it's 239 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:43,360 like a fucking cult that don't, don't want to get involved with 240 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:45,120 that. I'll just, I'll just keep it 241 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:49,640 locked up. But actually once they are in, 242 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:53,040 it's it, it all comes out. There's, there's loads and loads 243 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,640 of sharing there, There's, there's 2030 plus years of shame 244 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:59,760 and guilt and fear and all all the stuff that comes. 245 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:04,280 Up Yeah, yeah, I mean men and women, but we're talking about 246 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:09,200 men are all of us are walking around with all the things you 247 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:12,400 just said, shame and and fear and rage. 248 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:16,560 And that's that's rage is probably, well, shame, shame is 249 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:20,880 really at the core of all of it. But when I'm working with men, 250 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:24,000 usually the place I start is with their anger, with their 251 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:27,840 rage to give them a space to be able to express that fully, 252 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:34,320 which is usually sometimes it's righteous rage and but sometimes 253 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:38,360 it's, you know, it's masking their pain, masking their fear 254 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:42,800 and allowing themselves to express that fully in a room 255 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:45,640 full of men where there's a container for it. 256 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:50,240 What can be held because I think a lot of people feel myself 257 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:53,720 included when I started with this work, you know, if I, if I 258 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:59,040 let out everything that's inside me, I don't know, I could burn 259 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:01,280 down a city block like it, it can't be contained. 260 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:04,520 It's so big where, where it might destroy me. 261 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:07,240 I I don't know what I could do. I'll lose control. 262 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:12,600 I'll, I'll do something harmful. I'll, I'll, I'll, you know, spin 263 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:15,360 into madness. Some, something terrible will 264 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:18,240 happen. And so it's important for men to 265 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:21,320 realize that their anger and their rage can be held. 266 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:24,840 It can be contained. And that actually when it's 267 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:30,080 expressed in a, in a way that's grounded and present, it 268 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:34,480 actually brings more aliveness into the space. 269 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:38,600 And, and I think once men go through that process, they're 270 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:43,560 better able to express their, their anger and their aggression 271 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:47,640 in healthy ways, because anger is not, is necessary. 272 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:51,120 There's a reason that we are wired that way for anger. 273 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:56,200 Sometimes anger is an absolutely appropriate response to what's 274 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:58,760 happening in the environment. But you want to be able to 275 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:03,760 express that anger cleanly with intention and, and integrated 276 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:08,160 and grounded and that in that place, it, it can, it can land. 277 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:14,599 But if it's mixed up with all of our our shame and our resentment 278 00:17:14,599 --> 00:17:18,119 and our pain, that's where it does harm. 279 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:23,960 Yeah, when when you're talking about expressing anger in a 280 00:17:24,079 --> 00:17:27,440 container or expressing rage, you talk, are you, are you 281 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:31,480 talking more on on the long lines of like somatic embodiment 282 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:35,160 practices within therapy? Yes, I, I'm a somatic 283 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:42,640 practitioner trained in core energetics and we use different 284 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:49,000 tools to help people express things physically because you 285 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,000 know, exactly what you said earlier, it's like, how the hell 286 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:54,200 do I feel my feelings? You know, they're still stuck in 287 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:59,400 there forever. And so using movement really 288 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:04,280 expediates the process. So we have like big foam blocks 289 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:10,600 and Batacas that we hit with or, or you know, boxing gloves and 290 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:14,200 punching pads and all, all different kinds of things. 291 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:18,600 Or we create different psychodramas so that people can 292 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,560 get these feelings out. Because it's hard to just stand 293 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:24,200 there and, and feel your anger. But it's, but once you start 294 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:30,760 hitting something, the, the movement of the body releases 295 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:36,280 energy and it becomes harder to control the feelings, which is 296 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:39,200 the intention of it. It's, it's you want you. 297 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:45,160 When you begin to feel, you have to lose control. 298 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:49,200 There's no way, there's no way around it. 299 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:53,960 You, there's, you cannot heal. You cannot feel without losing 300 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:55,640 control. You have to surrender. 301 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:59,000 And if you spend a lifetime repressing your feelings, 302 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:01,480 judging your feelings, shaming your feelings, that that's going 303 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:05,920 to be a real edge. And so these physical tools, 304 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:11,120 they help expediate the process and, and it, it works. 305 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:13,600 It works every, all the men who come to my workshop, it's like 306 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:15,480 they all want to get up and hit the block. 307 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:17,760 I mean, they're terrified too, but they, they can feel the 308 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:19,200 goodness and the rightness of it. 309 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:22,560 And, and once it starts flowing, it just, it just keeps going. 310 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:27,680 And, and what inevitably happens is if they go all the way into 311 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:29,400 it, right? And that that energy is 312 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,280 discharged, then it takes them to their pain and. 313 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:35,680 And just for just for clarification for for the guys 314 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:41,640 listening earlier on, you talked about the psychotherapist 315 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:45,160 movement, 80% of it being female. 316 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:47,800 And so the modalities are very feminine. 317 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:52,040 And what you're talking about here this more like somatic 318 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:54,280 energetic. Would you say that's more that's 319 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:57,400 this is more of a masculine way to practice therapy? 320 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:00,440 No, I'm not. Women have just as much 321 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:04,960 aggression as men and they just, they're carrying just as much 322 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:07,800 rage. So the, the, the, the work that 323 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:13,320 I do is, is equally suitable for men and for women. 324 00:20:13,360 --> 00:20:20,000 I I think it's. Men are really drawn to it 325 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:22,080 because of the physical. That's why I was drawn to it 326 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:23,440 because of the physical nature of it. 327 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:26,960 I mean, talking about your feelings, you know, mapping your 328 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:30,640 consciousness, understanding, oh, this is what happened to me 329 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:35,160 in my childhood And that's why I am the way that I am and why I'm 330 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:39,000 struggling in relationship and, and all of that, like mapping 331 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,920 that is, is really important and that, but really is, I think 332 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:45,320 the, the purpose of, of most psychotherapy. 333 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:50,120 But intuitively, I think we know until we unlock our repressed 334 00:20:50,120 --> 00:20:52,480 feelings, not much is going to change. 335 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:56,720 And for men who are less interested in talking about 336 00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:00,400 their feelings and more interested in just getting into 337 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:04,440 the expression of it, I think this work is, is very, very 338 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,280 attractive to them. I know that when I have and I'm 339 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:13,840 a, a room full of men, there's going to be much less talking 340 00:21:14,120 --> 00:21:16,040 than if I have a room full of women. 341 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,920 And that's not to judge or compare. 342 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:22,800 It's just that men and women process emotions differently. 343 00:21:23,360 --> 00:21:27,640 And so there's a liberation when men can get into a space with 344 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:34,800 just men and allow themselves to, to feel the all of this, you 345 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:39,040 know, shadow material and which they may not do in the presence 346 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:42,640 of, of women. It doesn't feel safe for them to 347 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,000 express that in in the presence of women. 348 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:49,760 Yeah, yeah. And I can, I can, yeah. 349 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:53,840 Talk about somatic work and embodiment work and energetic 350 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:55,960 works. I too, I've gone through plenty 351 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,240 of that and found it extremely beneficial. 352 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,400 Like the, the, the talking side has been good, like you said, 353 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:05,000 just to, to map and understand, but to actually get the, get it 354 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:08,520 out of my body. The, the, yeah, the somatic work 355 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:13,280 like very, very good for me. And what you said earlier about 356 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:20,640 control and letting go, and I see this with a lot of guys and 357 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:23,160 this, this has probably been my biggest work this year, 358 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:25,800 actually. It's just surrendering more to 359 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:30,800 life, not, not just not just in somatic work, but just life as a 360 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:34,760 whole, the surrendering to what's what's going on, right 361 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:37,720 And and just not trying to control everything, including 362 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:39,760 the the shit, whether that's it that we've got in London, right. 363 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,640 What would you say to because actually what Tate talks about 364 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:46,240 it going back to his interview, he does talk about control that 365 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:48,480 it like it seems as though he's a very control. 366 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:52,720 He likes to control a lot. He likes that certainty of I am 367 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:56,240 in control. But what what we're talking 368 00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:00,800 about here is also the element of surrender and let go like is, 369 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:02,240 is there a happy medium there? Well. 370 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:05,440 He's not in control, is he? Well, no, it's it's. 371 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:07,720 An illusion. It's an illusion. 372 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:11,320 Yeah, it's it's an illusion. And it, it's a powerful one when 373 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,480 you have a lot of skills to be able to control and manipulate 374 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,520 the world, certainly. And but it's, it's, it's not 375 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:19,440 real. We're we're not in control, 376 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:21,120 right? Life is in control. 377 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:24,600 And our work is to surrender to that. 378 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:29,000 And once you, once you learn to truly surrender that, that's 379 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:34,240 actually when you, you, you have more control because you're in 380 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,720 the truth of, of what life actually is. 381 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,840 And then you can shape and navigate and, and with the power 382 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:46,480 of your intention, begin to direct reality. 383 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:49,880 But you cannot impose your will on life. 384 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:51,640 It's just not a thing that you can do. 385 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:53,440 Listen. And the reason that I know that 386 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:58,080 is because I tried for a long, long time and it doesn't work. 387 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:03,280 And it left me with, you know, addiction and frustration and 388 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:07,240 body pain. I didn't know any other way. 389 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:09,640 And so, you know, exactly what you're talking about. 390 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:13,200 Is, is, is what I'm also practicing. 391 00:24:14,120 --> 00:24:16,360 Am I willing to surrender to life? 392 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:18,880 Am I willing to understand that there's a, a greater 393 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:24,960 intelligence at work here and that my own mind is not entirely 394 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:30,360 reliable, that I tend to rationalize and it, that if I 395 00:24:30,360 --> 00:24:34,880 can let go of that and give over to this greater force, this 396 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,240 greater energy, this greater intelligence, God, whatever you 397 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:42,480 want to call it, that there's a, a relief and a, and a 398 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:46,720 satisfaction in that. And from that place I, I can 399 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:50,560 actually get more of what I want. 400 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:55,920 Now, that is generally not the message that is propagated in 401 00:24:55,920 --> 00:25:01,680 the culture, but if you look at every spiritual teaching from 402 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:06,240 the beginning of time, that's essentially what it says. 403 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:07,680 So I'm gonna, I'm gonna go with that. 404 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:13,240 As opposed to the the gurus in the culture telling me that I 405 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:15,160 need to go through this protocol. 406 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,200 And once I go through this protocol and do all of these 407 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,200 things, I'm gonna, I'm gonna get what I want. 408 00:25:20,360 --> 00:25:22,400 There's, there's value and utility in that. 409 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:25,880 But if you think you're gonna impose your will on life, it's 410 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:27,040 not. It's not happening. 411 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:31,760 Yeah, for me personally, over the course of this year, this, 412 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,200 this has been my probably my deepest practice this year. 413 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,200 This has been the year where I've had probably the most inner 414 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:42,920 peace and arguably probably the most like chaos that's also gone 415 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:45,280 through like I got divorced this year. 416 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,560 Like I'm, I'm, I'm, I moved, I moved into a completely 417 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,080 different location. I moved house so and like, so 418 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,000 there's been loads of chaos, yet I've had the most inner peace 419 00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:03,040 And I, I absolutely put that down to the just surrendering to 420 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,120 whatever's going to go on and just let go of that rather than 421 00:26:06,120 --> 00:26:08,240 control. Absolutely I've got intent. 422 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,840 Like there's, there's intention to where I want to go and and, 423 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,320 and I will point towards that, but. 424 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:17,280 But where does that intention come from, right? 425 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:19,440 That's the question. Like what? 426 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,520 Like why do I want to do what I want to do? 427 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:23,040 Where does that come from? I don't know. 428 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,400 I don't know why I want to do what I want to do. 429 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,760 I make up reasons for it. Oh, it's because of this and 430 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:32,600 this and this, but I actually don't know truly. 431 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,240 And if I am I willing to give over to that, Am I willing to 432 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,880 give over over to the mystery? If I'm, I'm willing to give over 433 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,440 that my ideas and my impulses that want to come through me in 434 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:43,680 the direction I want to go into my life is actually it's 435 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,000 something else, something greater than me. 436 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,280 And I can surrender to that as opposed to surrendering to my 437 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:52,640 own mind and my own ego. You know, my intentions, you 438 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,240 know, I want them to be aligned with the deepest part of myself, 439 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:58,200 not with my ego. And I feel like when they are, 440 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:02,360 then I'm, I'm, I'm in the flow, right? 441 00:27:02,360 --> 00:27:06,320 I'm aligned and then things just happen magically. 442 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,160 I mean, this is, this is the feminine imperative. 443 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:12,440 Like, you know, just do it. OK, that's good. 444 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:14,720 I get it, you know, it's, it feels good. 445 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:16,280 I'm going to get up, I'm going to go work out. 446 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,440 I'm going to push myself. That's necessary. 447 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,960 The masculine is important. But what if I just allow what if 448 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,840 I let it come to me? Because if I'm honest with 449 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,400 myself, almost all, yes, the discipline that I've shown in my 450 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,920 life and, and, you know, taking care of myself and doing all the 451 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:32,720 things that that's, that's a part of it. 452 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,560 But if I'm honest with myself, all the good things in my life 453 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:39,480 somehow came to me. This, you know, I got an e-mail 454 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,520 out of nowhere or this when I was an actor, this audition and 455 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,800 just at the right time that there's a magic to life if we 456 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:47,040 surrender. Yeah. 457 00:27:47,120 --> 00:27:49,280 You know, I'd never thought about that before what you just 458 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:53,240 said a minute ago about, yes, you have intent, but where's the 459 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:54,960 intent coming from? Never. 460 00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:57,440 It's like the net. It's like just going a little 461 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:01,160 bit deeper on on that intent that. 462 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:02,760 Yeah, absolutely. That is the magic. 463 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,040 Because I hadn't thought about where that intent is coming 464 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:06,760 from. Yeah, that's the mystery. 465 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:09,160 Yeah, it's all a mystery. We don't know. 466 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:10,920 We don't know anything. We don't know why we're here. 467 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:12,760 We don't know what this is. We think we know. 468 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:16,240 And, you know, we have science and philosophy in a, in a way to 469 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:18,080 try to understand life. But they're, they're all just 470 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:21,080 stories. They're all narratives that, 471 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:23,960 that, that we use to comfort us. And they, and I'm not saying 472 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:25,920 that they're not true, they're directionally true. 473 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,960 But it's, you know, we live in the, you know, for lack of a 474 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:33,160 better term, you know, we live in the simulation, right? 475 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,240 We live in the narrative, but there's something underneath 476 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:41,160 that's driving all this, right? There's a, there's a, a kind of 477 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,920 like, as I said earlier, intelligence and energy that's 478 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,120 beyond us. And, and we've, we touch into it 479 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,600 at different moments, you know, like, you know, the, the point I 480 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,200 made to take the interview, it's like when you're boxing, when 481 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,320 you're totally dissolved into the moment, there's a kind of 482 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:57,720 intelligence that wakes up inside you and you, you, you 483 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,560 know what to do. You know, you miss the punch, 484 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:05,000 you know, by just a, a fraction of a, of an inch, but you don't 485 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:06,640 know why. You don't know where that 486 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:10,200 instinct is coming from and, and that, that, that intelligence 487 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:14,120 of, of the body of the spirit is available to us at all time. 488 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:18,280 And so really my, my work and where I'm at now, it's about 489 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:20,080 that, like, how do I connect to that? 490 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:24,280 How do I connect to, to flow? How do I surrender my own mind 491 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,640 and fear and the, and the control mechanisms and the need 492 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,920 to understand, the need to know everything and let go into the 493 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:34,840 mystery and, and, and, and let that mystery unfold? 494 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:37,520 It's also it's, it's isn't, doesn't that sound more 495 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:39,320 interesting? It doesn't sound more exciting. 496 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:44,760 Like, you know, for me, for me, it's scarier, definitely 497 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,920 scarier. But to me, it's more exciting 498 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:49,200 and more interesting to live that. 499 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:54,320 David, you're the, you're the, yeah, she's, you're the second 500 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:55,640 person that I've spoken to today. 501 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:57,320 I did another podcast interview earlier. 502 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,120 We're a very similar sort of conversation actually. 503 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:07,040 And I'm, and I'm thinking, is it just that because I'm on that 504 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:13,360 this, this I'm gearing into more of a spiritual journey and more 505 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,600 of a journey of, of letting go. And is it that I am just 506 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:20,160 attracting those sorts of guys into my life like me and you are 507 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,640 having a conversation now and other conversation earlier with 508 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:26,000 another guy or, or is it that that is the way that the world 509 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,800 is gearing to that and it's becoming a bit more popular. 510 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,680 What do you think? It's probably both. 511 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:36,640 I think people are waking up to these ideas again, these ideas 512 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:40,440 have been around forever. But I also think, you know, the 513 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:49,920 Enlightenment we in science and rationality, which was great, 514 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:56,640 which was important. I think we threw out a lot of of 515 00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:00,120 this more feminine way of existing. 516 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:05,200 Yeah. We threw out the intuition and, 517 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:10,160 and God really, I mean, more and more people are coming back to 518 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,560 God in some, in some way, you know, wanting to connect to 519 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:15,960 their spirituality. Why? 520 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:19,280 Because they can do just like your story. 521 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,200 They, they feel unfulfilled, right? 522 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:23,880 They're a slave to their own ego. 523 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:27,240 And and then they hit a roadblock. 524 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:30,440 They get what they want, they get the ego gratification, they 525 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:34,560 get the money cars, they get the the nice girl, all of that. 526 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,400 But then they're still unfulfilled and they go 527 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,640 searching for something else. So I think it's an epidemic in 528 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,840 the culture. We've reached peak materialism 529 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,640 and you realize it doesn't, it doesn't matter, you know, 530 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:53,560 billion trillion dollars, 10 Ferraris, none of that matters 531 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,200 if I don't have inner peace. So where do I find that? 532 00:31:56,280 --> 00:32:01,520 Well, you're only going to find it by connecting to God, to 533 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,360 spirit, to something greater than yourself. 534 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:09,160 And so I think that's why so many people are are talking 535 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:15,680 about this right now and that we can see in the world what 536 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,720 happens when you are disconnected from spirit. 537 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:26,440 You are a slave to your ego, and that ego ultimately will seek to 538 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:30,680 destroy and control and manipulate out of fear. 539 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:39,320 Yeah, yeah, Is where where's fear useful for us like as guys? 540 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:43,960 I mean, obviously we have a, an instinct for fear. 541 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:49,760 You know, you see a, a lion and that fear response kicks in and 542 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:53,320 you have a physiological response and you can run faster 543 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:57,360 and are stronger and your reflexes become attuned. 544 00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:59,160 All of that is, is really, really good. 545 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:01,880 So I, you know, I think we should pay attention to our fear 546 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:05,320 always, but we want to be discerning about, you know, the 547 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:10,760 where it's coming from. You know, I mean, for me, fear 548 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:14,560 is at the root of all our self-destructive tendencies 549 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:25,400 because again, we tend to underestimate the impact that 550 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:29,120 our childhood had on us. It's very hard to take ourselves 551 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:34,440 back as men and remember what it was like to be a young, 552 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:39,320 vulnerable, open, helpless little boy. 553 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,960 Most of us have had to cut off from all of that. 554 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:51,880 And most of us did not get the nurturance, attention, care, 555 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:55,760 protection, understanding that we need it. 556 00:33:56,440 --> 00:34:02,200 And so many of us cut off from those vulnerable feelings. 557 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:08,040 And when your father say is not present for you, whether that's 558 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:13,600 physically or otherwise, you can't feel the father, well, 559 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:17,639 you're not going to feel safe. And I think a lot of a lot of us 560 00:34:17,639 --> 00:34:19,520 grow up. I know I did, with a lot of 561 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,040 fear. I was scared all the fucking 562 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:23,639 time. And I had to obviously there was 563 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,159 what could I do with that fear? I had to disassociate from it, 564 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:27,960 right? I can't, I can't live in that 565 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:30,400 perpetual state. But the the truth is, I think 566 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:34,560 most men are afraid a lot of the time. 567 00:34:35,199 --> 00:34:37,480 I mean, that was the first thing that that happened in the Tate 568 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:39,679 interview. You know, it's just I really 569 00:34:39,679 --> 00:34:41,080 pressed him. He's like, I'm having these 570 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:42,480 nightmares. And that's fear. 571 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,159 It's like, yeah, it's fear. And he landed in that. 572 00:34:45,159 --> 00:34:47,400 Like he admitted that he was fear and then he immediately 573 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:49,080 turned it into, well, fear is good. 574 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:50,600 I use fear and I want to be afraid. 575 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,760 You know, which was OK, You know that he's very good at 576 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,440 rationalizing everything. But the truth is what he 577 00:34:56,440 --> 00:35:00,160 admitted is that he's afraid. It was jail was fucking scary. 578 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:05,200 That growing up with a father, that the kind of father he had 579 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,560 was scary. And what I was trying to 580 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:13,400 demonstrate to him is that, hey, man, that fear may be still 581 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:18,120 locked in your body and may be influencing the way that you see 582 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:20,880 the world in a way that's not useful. 583 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:25,000 For you, Yeah, because it's like Tate is very good at self 584 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,640 deluding himself. And most of us are. 585 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:30,440 Yeah, yeah. Oh, for sure. 586 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:31,480 Oh. Yeah, I know I am. 587 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:32,920 Yeah. I know, I know. 588 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,000 I am he's. Just very, he's just very 589 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,200 persuasive. He's, he's, you know, master of, 590 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,360 of, of language. Yeah, but, but also, yeah, 591 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:43,720 absolutely. And but him like using his fear 592 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:48,880 in a in a way that increases his capabilities, sure. 593 00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:53,080 Whereas I thought, I think for a lot of guys it will diminish 594 00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:58,600 capabilities. Yeah, well, listen, what if your 595 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,560 if your fear is repressed, if you're not aware of it, if 596 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:04,000 you're not willing to make contact with it, if or if you 597 00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:09,360 shame it in some way, what happens is you end up taking 598 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:16,200 actions in the world to unconsciously avoid situations 599 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:20,000 where that fear may be provoked. Yeah. 600 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:22,280 And so you are limiting yourself. 601 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:26,160 You don't know that you're doing that because you, the mind will 602 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:28,760 rationalize. This goes back to intention. 603 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,040 Well, this is what I want. Well, why do you want that? 604 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:36,400 That's a, that's a very powerful question to ask somebody like 605 00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:38,160 really at the root, why do you want that? 606 00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:42,400 And so fear causes us to move forward certain things and move 607 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:47,880 away from other things that is not always in our best interest. 608 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,840 And so I think we want to hop to our fear. 609 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,840 I mean, anxiety and self sabotage. 610 00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:55,680 I just reframe it with my clients. 611 00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:58,000 It's like, OK, it's just fear. Forget about, forget about the 612 00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:01,880 story, forget about the, the, you know, the diagnosis of it. 613 00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,000 Like you have fear. That's why you're self 614 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,240 sabotaging. You know, you're procrastinating 615 00:37:06,240 --> 00:37:10,560 because you're afraid. What are you afraid of and why? 616 00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:14,200 And does that point to something back in your childhood, was 617 00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,360 there a moment that where you got shamed or humiliated or, or 618 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:19,920 you weren't seen? And, and are you afraid of 619 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:21,280 putting yourself out there in some way? 620 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:23,000 You're afraid of what other people are going to see. 621 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,520 And, and those fears are very, they're irrational, of course. 622 00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:28,600 So we, we tend to minimize them, but they're not irrational to 623 00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:31,840 the, the little boy who had to repress those feelings. 624 00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:36,440 And until we make contact with that scared little boy and, and 625 00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:44,120 take his hand and with, with an incredible amount of patience 626 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:49,800 and compassion and sort of lead him back into reality, into the 627 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,920 world and show him that, hey, you know, you don't have to be 628 00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,480 scared anymore. You're not a little boy. 629 00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:57,640 I'm with you. I'm an adult. 630 00:37:57,760 --> 00:37:59,760 I can handle this. We're OK. 631 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,040 Whatever you're afraid of is you're, you're going to survive 632 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:02,840 it. It's going to be OK. 633 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:05,560 But that, that is not how they feel. 634 00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:11,400 So it's it, you know, from, yeah, getting in touch, making 635 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:15,920 contact with our fear, acknowledging it is crucial. 636 00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,240 It's absolutely crucial. Otherwise we're going to, we're 637 00:38:19,240 --> 00:38:20,520 stuck. We're going to act out. 638 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,200 We're going to delude ourselves. Yeah, there's there's there's no 639 00:38:24,240 --> 00:38:28,360 way you're actualizing your potential with so much fear. 640 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:32,360 OK, out out of get in touch with our fear because it's because 641 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:35,760 it's because it's like I, yeah, I think about this in my own in 642 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:42,280 my in my own reality, even just as simple as go and go and talk 643 00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:46,120 to a go and talk to a hot girl intent go and do that. 644 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,720 And then something comes up. No, don't go and do that. 645 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:52,920 Yeah, can you make her a reason or she's probably a bitch. 646 00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:54,560 She's got a boyfriend. Yeah, we'll do it. 647 00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:56,120 We'll do it tomorrow. Yeah. 648 00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:59,040 Right. But it but actually at its core 649 00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:01,880 it's because of some form of fear rejection, rejection 650 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:05,000 because of afraid of X and so on. 651 00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:09,560 So this this happens in in every walk of life. 652 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,320 How do we get in touch with it? Well, you have to acknowledge 653 00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:14,400 it, you know, so you have to stop rationalizing. 654 00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:17,840 You have to, you have to notice your mind's ability to 655 00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:20,840 rationalize. You know exactly what we talked 656 00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:21,640 about. There's a pretty girl. 657 00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:25,760 I want to talk to her. And then immediately when I have 658 00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:30,600 that impulse, my mind can go to, well, she's, you know, high 659 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:33,080 girls usually bitches or she's got a boyfriend or I'm gonna, 660 00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:36,520 you know, but it's really just a fear of rejection, right? 661 00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:42,360 And we have to understand that we're that's that's what we're 662 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:43,760 afraid of. And we have to ask yourself the 663 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,720 question why we have to keep asking questions, right? 664 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:52,600 And without rationalizing, like, OK, I don't want to talk to that 665 00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:55,760 girl because I'm afraid that she's going to reject me. 666 00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:58,080 Fair enough. Hey, rejection doesn't feel 667 00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:01,520 good. But what's going to happen if 668 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:03,720 I'm rejected? Well, nothing's going to fucking 669 00:40:03,720 --> 00:40:06,160 happen but. You know what I mean? 670 00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:11,560 It's just like, but but the fear is it touches into this place 671 00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:18,560 where if I'm rejected, I'll feel like I'm nothing or I'll it'll 672 00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:22,320 it'll touch into the place that I have shame about myself worth 673 00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:24,080 or a feeling that I'm not enough. 674 00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:27,440 That's the thing we're actually afraid to touch into. 675 00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:32,440 So we have to get to the deep root of our unconscious beliefs 676 00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:38,000 about ourself and come to terms with the fact that most of us 677 00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:41,920 have insecurities. Most of us have questions about 678 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:46,640 our self worth and you know you could take it even deeper. 679 00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:52,840 Most of us have questions about our right to even exist, to just 680 00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:56,040 be here as I am. OK? 681 00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:01,960 Most of us have shame about our desire, desires and impulses, 682 00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:06,360 right? And so we want to really get in 683 00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:09,560 touch with all of that. And it's, it's, it's, it's not 684 00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:12,240 easy, it's deep, it's deep work and it's confronting. 685 00:41:12,240 --> 00:41:14,120 And it doesn't, again, it doesn't make sense to the 686 00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:17,280 rational mind, which is why in some sense you have to bypass, I 687 00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,120 don't really catch how you, how you rationalize. 688 00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:25,640 And then once you understand that, right, really, really 689 00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:29,160 understand the deep emotional root of your fear, you can 690 00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:32,000 create a little separation between you and the fear. 691 00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:34,800 And once you have a little separation, you, you, you, 692 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:36,920 you're no longer identified with it. 693 00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:40,520 You see the distortion, you see the lie or you see where it came 694 00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:43,600 from, from your childhood and how it got twisted. 695 00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:47,640 And from that place you can begin to take new action. 696 00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:50,760 And, and it's in that place where you, you, because you 697 00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:54,320 can't. I'd much rather if I'm going to 698 00:41:54,320 --> 00:42:02,360 go off into some battle, right, I'm in the army, much more 699 00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:07,640 trusting of the man beside me who says I'm fucking scared 700 00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:10,760 shitless, man, This is this is insane. 701 00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:14,160 We might get killed, but they're going to do it anyway. 702 00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:17,080 They're going to go all in. As opposed to the guy like, Nah, 703 00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:20,960 fuck this, I'm into it, we're going to fuck in. 704 00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:25,120 You know, they override it. Yeah, that guy is a little scary 705 00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:30,720 and it's useful, I get it. But the person you know who's 706 00:42:30,720 --> 00:42:35,440 more grounded in it is actually more reliable and it is probably 707 00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:39,840 going to make better decisions in the moment because they're 708 00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:42,760 more connected to what's actually going on inside them, 709 00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:47,400 which which in fact, being afraid in that situation is a 710 00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:52,800 completely rational reaction. Yeah, yeah. 711 00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:58,800 And, and just back in back into the fear and understanding the 712 00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:02,080 the root, ultimately the root cause of the fear, not just the 713 00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:04,840 symptoms of the fear, symptoms of the fear is that I'm not 714 00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:06,800 going to go and ask the hot girl for a number. 715 00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:10,600 But the root, the root cause of the fear is that actually it's, 716 00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:13,080 it's rejection, back off rejection. 717 00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:15,720 It's it's around that I don't feel that I'm good enough. 718 00:43:15,720 --> 00:43:17,960 Yeah, if you, if you get rejected, what what's going to 719 00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:19,960 happen if you get rejected? Like what's the fear? 720 00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:22,640 Yeah. What's what's actually there? 721 00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:25,040 Because it's not about the girl, it's not about the rejection. 722 00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:27,360 There's something that the rejection means to you and 723 00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:29,360 that's that's what you want to get to. 724 00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:31,720 And where did that come from? When did that start? 725 00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:37,480 And that's important to to go and understand that to be able 726 00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:41,360 to get over it. I think so, yeah, Because it 727 00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:44,360 makes you more present, right? You're in the reality of what's 728 00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:46,040 what's going on. And once you understand the 729 00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:50,640 mechanisms of your mind and and can be present with it and have 730 00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:55,360 awareness around it, it's it's much easier to take action. 731 00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:58,680 Yeah. And so that's the so, so then 732 00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:03,960 once you've built the separation between yourself and this, the, 733 00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:08,240 the reason for the fear as a separation there, it's then the 734 00:44:08,240 --> 00:44:11,200 next step is we'll then go and, you know, improve. 735 00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:13,640 Yeah, you have to, I mean, you got to get your reps in, you got 736 00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:15,840 to practice, right? That's, that's really where, 737 00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:19,400 where the change happens, right? So you can, you can have all the 738 00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:21,720 awareness and that's great. It's important. 739 00:44:21,720 --> 00:44:23,960 It's a part of it. But then you have to go do the 740 00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:26,440 thing. And what'll happen is, you know, 741 00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:28,480 if you do the thing over and over and over again, This is why 742 00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:30,360 these, you know, pick up artist guys. 743 00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:32,480 And I think it's great. They go, OK, here's to get a 744 00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:35,320 group of guys together. Your day in the city, you got to 745 00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:37,560 go out and you got to, you know, you got to get 10 phone numbers. 746 00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:40,200 So they, you know, they have to talk to 100 girls. 747 00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:42,480 And by the end of that day, they're just, they're over it. 748 00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:46,120 It's like, OK, yeah, I got rejections 99% of the time. 749 00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:49,960 But you know, I got, I got a number, I got 10 numbers and, 750 00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:55,160 and, and everything's fine. So yeah, the practice of is is 751 00:44:55,160 --> 00:45:00,280 is crucial. Yeah, yeah, because, because 752 00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:04,200 actually sitting too much in the awareness. 753 00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:06,440 So you're thinking, thinking, thinking, sitting way too much 754 00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:08,000 in the awareness. You're actually sat. 755 00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:11,400 Am I right in saying you sat way too much in your feminine rather 756 00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:12,520 than leaning back into? That's right. 757 00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:15,080 That's right. Yeah, that's another. 758 00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:18,120 That's another trick. Oh, I I understand myself. 759 00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:21,560 Therefore I'm good. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. 760 00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:24,960 Now you got to take action. Like you have an awareness of 761 00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:28,160 what your fear is about, right? You have compassion for yourself 762 00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:30,320 there. You have understanding, but now 763 00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:32,760 you have to go out in the world and, and, and confront it and 764 00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:34,640 everybody knows. It's like the greatest 765 00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:38,520 satisfaction that we we have in our lives is, is when we do 766 00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:42,520 things that were scary for us and and we come out the other 767 00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:45,840 side. That that for me, that's all of 768 00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:49,520 the I feel the most proud of in my in my life, the things that I 769 00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:51,240 did, even though I was terrified. 770 00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:55,920 Yeah. Is that in in your work with 771 00:45:55,920 --> 00:46:01,320 guys, where would you say do you see the most like breakthroughs 772 00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:04,920 from, from a guy that's that's that's come to see you? 773 00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:06,840 And then he gets he gets a big transformation. 774 00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:10,960 Is it in the he's facing a fear. He proves to himself that he can 775 00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:11,600 face it. Yeah. 776 00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:15,360 I think that's a big one. I mean, what comes to mind right 777 00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:21,280 now currently is what we were talking about earlier is in, in 778 00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:27,680 relationship with women, that men have a lot of distortion 779 00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:32,240 about how to be in relationship with women. 780 00:46:32,240 --> 00:46:38,400 And they tend to defer, make themselves small, not say what's 781 00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:43,040 true for them, you know, give over to their needs and their 782 00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:46,960 preferences. And then they wonder why they're 783 00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:49,800 not having success with women. Well, that's a turn off for 784 00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:52,480 women. Women like assertive men, not 785 00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:54,880 Dicks. While they do like assholes, 786 00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:58,680 there's a reason for that, you know, because they're assertive 787 00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:03,280 and they're sort of women. I mean, listen on a, on a, you 788 00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:10,040 know, physiological, biological, evolutionary level, women are 789 00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:16,160 turned on by dominant men. They, they want to be taken. 790 00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:19,160 It's erotic. They feel plain. 791 00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:24,440 So allowing that part of men to come through, reclaim the 792 00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:28,280 goodness of it and to see that that women are longing for that, 793 00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:31,680 even if they're afraid of it. Yeah, Even if they're afraid of 794 00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:33,200 it, that's OK Let them be afraid. 795 00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:37,240 If you can stay present and trust the goodness of that, then 796 00:47:37,240 --> 00:47:42,240 you're not going to act out in, in, in weird, you know, 797 00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:48,680 manipulative ways, which is why women are so scared of men right 798 00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:52,080 now or, or turned off by men. It's, I don't believe it's 799 00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:55,600 because of the Andrew Tate's of the world, because how, how, but 800 00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:59,680 he's, he's, he's completely transparent. 801 00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:02,840 You can take it or leave it, but he's completely transparent 802 00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:05,880 about who he is and what he wants and how he operates in, in 803 00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:09,240 masculine, feminine dynamics. But I think there's a lot of men 804 00:48:09,240 --> 00:48:15,720 who they repress their instinct and then present a quote, UN 805 00:48:15,720 --> 00:48:22,040 quote, you know, a good guy image, but they're really hiding 806 00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:24,680 their aggression. And if they're hiding it, it's 807 00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:26,840 going to come out in, in, in weird ways. 808 00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:28,680 And women can feel that, and they don't trust it. 809 00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:32,520 Yeah, yeah, it can be passive aggressive and controlling in 810 00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:33,840 its own ways. Right. 811 00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:37,400 Yeah, yeah, that, that, yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. 812 00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:39,400 I, I I could probably mimic the same thing. 813 00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:43,000 And the guys that come into our world is the, when they start, 814 00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:46,720 even if it's just setting a couple of boundaries that they, 815 00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:49,960 they just grow in their masculinity and, and they get a 816 00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:51,240 lot from that. Yeah. 817 00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:53,880 It's like, hey dude, it's OK. It's OK to say no. 818 00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:56,240 It's OK, man. You can, you can, you can say no 819 00:48:56,240 --> 00:48:58,600 and it's cool. Yeah, you can. 820 00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:02,040 You can have, you know, have, have all of yourself be fully 821 00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:06,160 expressed, you know, let it, let it let it out. 822 00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:11,400 And you know, for me, you know, like even in my own 823 00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:16,320 relationship, but in any relationship, the, the, what's 824 00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:20,600 the word? I want the, the problems occur 825 00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:23,040 when people are holding. Back so a little Internet 826 00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:27,240 connection. Welcome to Mexico. 827 00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:29,240 Welcome. Yeah, yeah. 828 00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:32,120 David, thank you so much for coming on man. 829 00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:35,160 I, I appreciate your thoughts and your insights, especially 830 00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:39,120 the ones that just on the on fear there like there was some, 831 00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:41,240 there was some good insights there for me personally. 832 00:49:41,240 --> 00:49:44,080 Appreciate that mate. Yeah, no, thanks for having me. 833 00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:46,040 I I really appreciate the conversation. 834 00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:50,720 Great, great questions and glad you're doing the work that 835 00:49:50,720 --> 00:49:52,840 you're you're doing. And I'm I'm sure you're helping 836 00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:54,440 a lot of men. Yeah, yeah. 837 00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:55,360 Thank you. Thank you, man. 838 00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:57,800 And I I know the guys listening to it will get a lot out of it. 839 00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:01,160 Fantastic. Yes, David, Cheers. 840 00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:04,720 Team before you go, if you're not following us already, can 841 00:50:04,720 --> 00:50:06,560 you give us a follow on Instagram? 842 00:50:06,720 --> 00:50:10,960 The handle is at heroic man official two things on there 843 00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:14,080 number one, the link in our bio has all the information on our 844 00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:17,520 next meetups, next events and there's a number of trainings in 845 00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:19,480 it too. The second thing is, if you give 846 00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:23,200 us a follow, then shoot us a message, we will send you a free 847 00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:28,600 training on the four core archetypes that every man must 848 00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:32,560 master to succeed in this modern Western world. 849 00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:36,120 That's it for me. I'll see you on the next episode 850 00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:40,280 after you've given us a follow. Cheers man, see you then.