1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,840 I think it's particularly important for men because of its 2 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:09,880 capacity to act as a non verbal form of psychic exploration and 3 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:12,600 and as a therapeutic tool. But I do still think for a lot 4 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:15,240 of people, but men in particular, being able to go in 5 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:18,120 and process stuff where it's all internal and you're able to 6 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:20,800 process and reconcile stuff is, is a really powerful thing. 7 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:25,000 Also because of the role that breath in this form can play in 8 00:00:25,080 --> 00:00:27,240 clearing and processing emotional charge that we hold 9 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:29,680 within the nervous system, that has usually come about as a 10 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:38,820 result sort of repression. Right, welcome back to the 11 00:00:38,820 --> 00:00:41,900 Heroic man. This is Round 2 with Jamie 12 00:00:41,900 --> 00:00:45,900 Clements, the breath Workman of London, right? 13 00:00:45,900 --> 00:00:47,620 This this episode we're going to go a little bit deeper. 14 00:00:48,380 --> 00:00:51,260 So last episode, if you haven't listened to it yet, TuneIn, we 15 00:00:51,260 --> 00:00:54,300 talked about the fundamentals of breath work. 16 00:00:55,780 --> 00:00:58,180 Super interesting, some really great insights there and some 17 00:00:58,180 --> 00:01:00,660 how to's. This time we're going to go a 18 00:01:00,660 --> 00:01:06,560 little bit deeper on the power of breath work and how it can 19 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:13,520 activate existing trauma and can help process healing, and then 20 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:15,600 some of our own experiences around that. 21 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:22,200 So, Jamie, what is conscious connected breath work? 22 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:28,120 It's a good place to begin. So I'm going to call it CCB 23 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:32,560 because it's less of a mouthful. So if people are wondering what 24 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:34,360 CCB is through restless conversation, conscious 25 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:38,960 connected breath work. So CCB is the underpinning 26 00:01:38,960 --> 00:01:44,240 technique of pretty much every healing informed style of breath 27 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:46,760 work. So whether you're coming across 28 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:48,960 something like transformational breath, whether you're coming 29 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:51,960 across soma breath work, holotropic breath work, all of 30 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:55,800 these kind of sub modalities, they're all underpinned by some 31 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:57,680 form of of conscious connected breathing. 32 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:02,480 And this is a continuous circular pattern of breathing 33 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:08,880 usually done through the mouth that is delivered in either A1 34 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:13,240 to one or group setting to create an altered state of 35 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:15,520 consciousness. That is really kind of the the 36 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:20,200 what that has typically been done, as I said, kind of through 37 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:25,240 a helium formed lens to in a similar way to psychedelic 38 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:29,320 therapies where we're looking to explore that altered state of 39 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:35,360 consciousness in whatever form it shows up to see what lies 40 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:39,600 beneath that day-to-day waking state consciousness. 41 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:42,160 So very ego LED, monkey mind LED. 42 00:02:42,640 --> 00:02:46,360 We're not very tuned into the subconscious and we can use CCB 43 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:50,080 to really flip into this non ordinary state where these 44 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:52,800 protector parts, these ego parts get quieter and quieter and 45 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:54,720 quieter. And the subconscious mind, the 46 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:57,360 emotional body, you can get closer and closer to the 47 00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:59,760 surface. And when that happens, that can 48 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:02,160 show up as a very physical experience. 49 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:04,800 It can show up as a very cathartic emotional experience. 50 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:09,560 We can start connecting to memories, to past experiences, 51 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:14,800 whatever it might be. It's this, this tool ultimately 52 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,640 that that opens us up in whatever form that takes. 53 00:03:17,640 --> 00:03:20,280 And that can be really varied as I'm sure we'll kind of dive into 54 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:22,320 when we talk about personal experience a bit more. 55 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:27,400 But yeah, at its core, it's a healing modality. 56 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:31,560 It's an exploratory healing tool. 57 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:38,000 How does it work? We're still unpacking that it's, 58 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:43,080 it's the I I guess the, the honest answer and the factual 59 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:48,080 answer from what we know and I, I guess what I know through 60 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:50,960 looking at research and through anecdotal and and sort of 61 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:57,040 evidence back research as well. What is going on The 1st domino 62 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:00,920 really in the experience is the change in breathing pattern and 63 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:04,600 breathing volume creating a change in oxygen and carbon 64 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:07,200 dioxide levels in the in the body and the brain, particularly 65 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:08,840 paying attention to carbon dioxide. 66 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:15,200 When we lower CO2 levels in the and the blood in the body we are 67 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:18,480 which is what happened is happening with CCB. 68 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:24,800 We create this physical shift, so we get a bunch of physical 69 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:27,280 changes going on in the body that lead to the tingling that 70 00:04:27,280 --> 00:04:31,400 people experience, that lead to changes in temperature, physical 71 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:35,080 sensations. We get decrease in blood flow, 72 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:40,160 so we get vasoconstriction. We also get or can get something 73 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:43,560 called tetany, which is where we get a reduction in ionized 74 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:45,880 calcium in the blood and we get a bit cramping in the 75 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:50,120 extremities. That drop in blood CO2 leads to 76 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:54,560 that from a physical standpoint, it then also leads to hypoxia, 77 00:04:54,560 --> 00:05:00,680 so low oxygen in both the body and the brain, which then seems 78 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:04,920 to lead to further experiential aspects of it. 79 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:10,360 So the shortest version of kind of what is going on as a result 80 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:13,440 of those biological and physiological changes is that 81 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:19,720 we're able to create a trance like hypnotic state where these 82 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:24,600 protective parts of the mind are less active and the more 83 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:26,600 emotional aspects and subconscious aspects of the 84 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:31,800 brain become more active. And that seems to open up this 85 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:35,000 altered state, mystical state that many people experience 86 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:36,760 through breath work. Yeah, yeah. 87 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:43,000 And then how does that then relate to being able to process 88 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:49,120 past trauma? So if we think about trauma, 89 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:53,280 which is a an interesting word because it's just it's been 90 00:05:53,280 --> 00:05:56,000 thrown around so much and discussed so much in in social 91 00:05:56,000 --> 00:06:00,120 media world that I think we have different interpretations of 92 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:06,880 what it means. If we look at trauma as adverse 93 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:14,760 past experiences that have left a legacy of that experience in 94 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:16,960 your nervous system, in your brain, in your body. 95 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:24,240 When we go into that state through the breath where these 96 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:28,840 protector parts, these guards within our brain that do a very 97 00:06:28,840 --> 00:06:32,080 good job of keeping us safe. That is part of their part of 98 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:35,480 their role. When they are less active, 99 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:40,760 aspects of past adverse experiences can begin to 100 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:42,640 resurface. That could be through memories. 101 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:45,720 That could be through emotional charge in the body. 102 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:48,480 If we think about the way that we we hold that emotional energy 103 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:52,040 of past experiences in the nervous system to actually begin 104 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:58,560 to bring it to the surface. Often with past adverse 105 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:05,280 experiences, we end up almost guarding ourselves from the 106 00:07:05,280 --> 00:07:08,320 processing of them because at that point in time where that 107 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:10,920 event occurred, we needed to be protected from it. 108 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:14,800 Our nervous system wasn't able to hold that experience. 109 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:16,120 We didn't have the capacity for it. 110 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:19,000 And so we might have shut down, we might have cut ourselves off 111 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:21,000 from it. We might have compartmentalized 112 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:25,840 it, put it in a box. And so we then keep ourselves 113 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:28,640 safe from it in that moment, but also going forward. 114 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:32,360 And that is what can lead to some of these ingrained 115 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:35,600 behaviour patterns as a result of trauma, is that we are still 116 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:37,880 keeping ourselves safe from something that perhaps even 117 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:41,160 happened in childhood. And so when we open up this 118 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:48,120 altered state and we almost change brain activity through 119 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:53,880 the breath, we are able to explore aspects of those 120 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:57,240 experiences that we may have been protecting ourselves from, 121 00:07:57,240 --> 00:07:59,440 even at a point where we no longer needed to be kept safe 122 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:01,640 from them. And when we can go into those in 123 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:09,560 a safe held environment to recontextualize and readdress 124 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:11,920 our relationship with that experience, that's where we 125 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:16,280 might start to hear the language of healing trauma. 126 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:19,600 Because we're going, OK, there's a memory coming up here. 127 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:21,120 This is something really, really common. 128 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:23,360 A memory coming through here is something that I completely 129 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:25,800 forgotten about. That is a challenging memory. 130 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:28,640 There's emotion attached to it. There's there's fear attached to 131 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:32,840 it in a lot of cases. But in a safe space where I'm 132 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:37,440 better resourced as an adult to face that, to understand that, 133 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:42,200 to interpret that to, yeah, readdress my relationship with 134 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:46,520 it. You can then start to work with 135 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:52,800 that in a safe container with support, guidance, facilitation 136 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:55,680 to come out the other side with a slightly different 137 00:08:55,680 --> 00:08:57,000 relationship with that experience. 138 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:00,360 For sure, yeah, yeah. I'll give you an example. 139 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:08,160 So an example for me that I got a download essentially, I got a 140 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:12,280 memory like you just said there that I hadn't, oh, and I don't 141 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:14,400 know, 37. I hadn't fucking remembered 142 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:19,400 this, that when I was 11 or 12 years old, looks like I, I was 143 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,600 able to access this by doing breath work and and getting into 144 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:24,880 a deep meditation. When I was 11-12 years old. 145 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:28,360 I'd locked myself in my bathroom when my parents were together 146 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:32,240 and we had big, big house, big family bathroom and we're going 147 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:33,760 to school. And I locked myself in there 148 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:37,360 because I was convinced my father didn't love me as much as 149 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:39,880 he loved my brother. And it was like, I was like, 150 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:44,440 fucking hell, that's fucking deep that I'd remembered that I 151 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:47,320 was, you know, I was 1112 year old, now I'm 37. 152 00:09:47,680 --> 00:09:50,720 But now being able to look back at that and go, well, how can I 153 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:53,640 look at that from an adult's perspective, a man's 154 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:57,160 perspective, rather than the little, little boy who was, he 155 00:09:57,160 --> 00:09:59,760 was scared, didn't think his dad loved him as much he loved his 156 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:01,360 brother. And how can I look at that and 157 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:04,640 then see where else that is affecting my life in terms of my 158 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:08,840 own self worth, my own self love and so forth, and how I'm also 159 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:12,880 parenting my own son? Super powerful to be able to 160 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:16,040 access that through breath. Yeah. 161 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:20,400 And it's fascinating. Like I, yeah, I've been doing 162 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:24,920 this myself as a an individual for coming up to 7-8 years and 163 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:27,280 practicing and teaching for 5-6 years. 164 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:33,600 I'm always fascinated by individual experiences and my 165 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:38,200 own because I'm like, I can give that explanation that I gave of 166 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:40,720 what's happening, but that's still to me. 167 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:44,640 It's just, you know, it's very surface of like, OK, by, by the 168 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:48,720 by, I want to know the what of what someone experienced because 169 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,240 that's the power. And I remember even when I did 170 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:54,360 one of my trainings, I would be asking questions if like, yeah, 171 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:56,000 but what's going on in the brain because I wanted to 172 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:57,280 intellectualize it and understand it. 173 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:00,000 And my teacher just had no time for it. 174 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:04,280 He was like, doesn't really matter so long as we know that 175 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:06,720 it's safe and there are certain medical contraindications, 176 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:09,680 disclaimers, so on and so forth as to why someone might not do 177 00:11:09,680 --> 00:11:12,200 it. But as long as we know that it's 178 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:17,040 safe, it's the experience that matters, not why it's happening. 179 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:19,440 We just like to intellectualize this stuff. 180 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:21,640 It's part of the process. And especially when it comes to 181 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:25,280 regulation scaling, when it comes to getting this into to 182 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:28,640 broader audiences, it's important that we know what's 183 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:34,200 going on so that it can be safe. But the the experiential side of 184 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:37,520 it is so powerful and so undeniable. 185 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:40,600 You go, OK, like we can put the science to one side and just 186 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:42,480 look at what is happening in front of us. 187 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:46,360 And for me, one of the the kind of landmark experiences for me 188 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:48,880 back in back in the day when I was first getting into this work 189 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:53,560 was I'd been, for want of a better term, struggling with 190 00:11:53,560 --> 00:11:57,120 depression for, you know, on and off for the best part of 10 191 00:11:57,120 --> 00:11:59,920 years. And my depression was very much 192 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:04,560 a numbness and a shutting down where I would didn't experience 193 00:12:04,560 --> 00:12:08,320 major highs, had some big lows, but it was mostly just pretty 194 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:10,720 numb. And I had one experience with 195 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:15,840 with breath work where I felt this joy like this euphoria that 196 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:20,320 I hadn't experienced or that it had been such a long time since 197 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:23,160 I had experienced it that I'd forgotten it was possible. 198 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:25,760 And it was this light bulb moment where I was like, Oh my 199 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:30,160 God, it almost in that moment lifted me out of the depression 200 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:32,400 that I was experiencing. And obviously it took work and 201 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:35,760 integration beyond that, but it just woke something off him up 202 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:38,600 in me to go, oh, that's possible. 203 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:40,720 That's, that's doable, That's real. 204 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:44,320 And because you've experienced it and it's a felt experience, 205 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:46,800 that's an incredibly powerful thing. 206 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:50,680 And that I was listening to a conversation about psychedelics 207 00:12:50,680 --> 00:12:53,600 and altered states of consciousness, where when we 208 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:59,880 have these somatic, bodily, very real felt experiences of 209 00:12:59,880 --> 00:13:02,640 something through psychedelics, through breath work, through 210 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:07,280 whatever it might be, it can almost act as a, an inverse 211 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:09,320 trauma. If we think about trauma as this 212 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:13,800 negative legacy of a, of a, a challenging experience, if we 213 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:18,400 have a uniquely positive experience, why wouldn't that be 214 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:21,760 able to leave a similar legacy, a similar mark? 215 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:24,680 And I definitely think, you know, the fact that I can still 216 00:13:24,680 --> 00:13:27,400 remember that experience to speak about that experience 7-8 217 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:31,320 years on certainly speaks to that for me of like the what is 218 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:37,160 the positive knock on effect of a intensely powerful felt 219 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:39,240 positive experience. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 220 00:13:39,680 --> 00:13:43,600 Why do you think as a guy, why do you think it's this sort of 221 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:48,400 this sort of going deeper into breath work is important for 222 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:52,720 men? I think it's particularly 223 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:59,320 important for men because of its capacity to act as a non verbal 224 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:03,960 form of psyche exploration and and as a therapeutic tool. 225 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:09,000 So two sides to it, non verbal because you know, there's this 226 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:12,080 legacy of men struggling to vocalize and talk about what 227 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:13,960 they're feeling. I think it's starting to become 228 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:16,360 outdated because a lot of people doing a lot of good work. 229 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:19,720 But I do still think for a lot of people, but men in 230 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:23,800 particular, being able to go in and process stuff where it's all 231 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:26,680 it's all internal and you're able to process and reconcile 232 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:28,520 stuff is a really powerful thing. 233 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:32,480 And also because of the role that breath in this form can 234 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:37,440 play in clearing and processing emotional charge that we hold 235 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:39,840 within the nervous system that has usually come about as a 236 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:43,880 result of repression. And again, men, historically, 237 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:46,400 emotional repression is a big challenge and a big, a big 238 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:50,720 issue. And so it's a really potent tool 239 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:54,440 to help people go inward, which is great, but also to clear and 240 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:58,760 process that that weight of emotional energy that we're 241 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:01,200 holding within the within the nervous system, when within the 242 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,840 body. And then I think an extra bonus 243 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:08,240 point from my perspective at least, is that I see it 244 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:13,480 connecting people to a sense of spirituality and a sense of 245 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:17,200 something bigger than ourselves. And I think again, this is 246 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:19,800 broad, broader than men for sure. 247 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:23,080 But certainly for guys, we are quite, we can be quite 248 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:27,520 blinkered, quite logical minded, quite intellectualizing of, of 249 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:29,880 life. And that can be quite a quick 250 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:33,520 route to, to misery as well. When all you believe in is the 251 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:35,520 six inches in front of your face and nothing else. 252 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:38,360 That can lead to challenges as well from a mental health 253 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:40,200 perspective. And so having these big 254 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:42,760 expansive experiences that kind of shake you up and wake you up, 255 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:46,600 you go, Jesus Christ is more to life than just wake up and grind 256 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:48,600 and lift some weights. And I think that's a really 257 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:49,920 powerful piece of the puzzle as well. 258 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:55,520 It is that that essentially can give a man faith and hope, which 259 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:59,720 is powerful is why religion can be incredibly powerful, whatever 260 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:03,120 religion, because it gives people faith and faith can get 261 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:05,560 you through the darkest of times. 100% what? 262 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:09,600 What's your journey been like with I suppose spirituality and 263 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:13,240 and faith? Yeah, so I'd actually say when I 264 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:20,000 was in my early 20s, I had like a timid relationship with God, 265 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:23,120 right. I wanted to to believe God was 266 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:26,680 there, but didn't really know how to go about doing that. 267 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:29,120 Then in my mid 20s, I lost my best mate in a car accident. 268 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:32,600 So then it was like, fuck you, like God doesn't exist. 269 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:35,120 And it was a big fuck you to, to whatever that looked like. 270 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:40,040 But actually in my mid 30s when I started to step into more this 271 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:43,400 sort of work, men's work and that sort of spaces, going to 272 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:46,400 breath work, going to some psychedelics that opened me up. 273 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:51,920 And actually whether that's God, the universe, spirit, a higher 274 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:54,920 force. I now do have a belief that 275 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:58,200 there is something there, that there is a higher force. 276 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:01,000 And it just, I'll tell you what makes life a little bit more 277 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:05,119 exciting just to be open to that rather than close to it, to be 278 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:06,880 able to have deeper conversations. 279 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:13,040 And I'll give you an example probably two months ago when I 280 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:15,440 did my last men's event in London. 281 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:20,359 We do also somatic breath work. And I don't participate myself, 282 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:23,119 someone else does. But I had an enlightening 283 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:26,800 experience there where I essentially saw Jesus and then 284 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:31,120 saw Goddess come in and, and it was incredibly powerful that my 285 00:17:31,120 --> 00:17:35,320 own mind created that. And it was very, very 286 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:36,840 enlightening. It's like an out of body 287 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:40,400 experience. And that's exciting, Yeah. 288 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:43,440 To be able to do that and to be able to to know that you can 289 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:48,360 create that inner peace and that inner enlightenment as just as a 290 00:17:48,360 --> 00:17:50,640 man. Yeah, yeah, it's fascinating. 291 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:57,080 I think there's a woman called Doctor Lisa Miller who's done a 292 00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:01,080 lot of research on the role of spirituality of mental and 293 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:03,520 emotional health. And her view is that we're all 294 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:07,400 innately spiritual beings that, that actually we just lose our 295 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:10,240 connection with it rather than have to build our connection 296 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:12,040 with it. And it's often about 297 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:15,200 reconnecting to that. And, and it's fascinating based 298 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:20,040 on what we do know about the neuroscience of altered states 299 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:23,160 of consciousness and mystical states, that there seems to be 300 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:29,560 a, a commonality of spiritual experiences through these 301 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:32,480 altered states of consciousness. It's it's sort of it leads us 302 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:35,520 there, whether, you know, whatever you want to call it, 303 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:38,440 whatever you end up just deciding to believe in or have 304 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:43,880 faith in, all roads lead back to, to some sense of 305 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:45,840 spirituality. And I think you're absolutely 306 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:47,760 right. I think, you know, I most of my 307 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:50,920 life grew, kind of grew up as a pretty staunch intellectual 308 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:53,160 atheist. I was like, yeah, but there's no 309 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:54,640 evidence. So why would I believe in that? 310 00:18:54,960 --> 00:19:00,200 And actually, it's a pretty bleak place to live from because 311 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,360 you're like, well, I have to see something and feel something to 312 00:19:03,360 --> 00:19:05,240 believe it. Otherwise it's not worth 313 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:06,760 anything. And actually, that just cuts you 314 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:11,000 off from. Yeah, the excitement and I don't 315 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:13,760 even the expansiveness that comes with actually going. 316 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:16,280 There's so much and I think that's maybe where all of the 317 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:19,360 states of consciousness come in is it shows you that there is so 318 00:19:19,360 --> 00:19:23,160 much that you do not know. And it's that not knowing that I 319 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:25,640 think underpins faith. Faith is underpinned by an 320 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:31,120 inevitable non knowing or kind of a gap in certainty. 321 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:36,360 And to think that you to think with absolute certainty that you 322 00:19:36,360 --> 00:19:39,880 know, everything is pretty naive in my, in my opinion. 323 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:43,440 And so I think once you connect to something that shows you how 324 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:48,040 little you know, that's where faith starts to to bleed into 325 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:52,480 into your life. What would you say in what's 326 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:57,280 been the most breathtaking experience that you've had or 327 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:00,720 you've seen witnessed through like conscious connected breath 328 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:04,120 work? So the one that I spoke to for 329 00:20:04,120 --> 00:20:07,960 myself was, was like a light bulb moment that that turned on. 330 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:10,200 I think everything has happened since. 331 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,680 So that was the one where I went, oh, I wonder how one would 332 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:15,560 go about teaching this to other people. 333 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:17,800 And I had a conversation with the guy that run that session. 334 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:21,320 Now I'm still in touch with the week after that. 335 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,440 And I was like, oh, OK. And that and that to me has kind 336 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:28,960 of changed my life trajectory. I've seen. 337 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:32,800 So, you know, thousands of people come through sessions, 338 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:38,520 there's some that are quite recent that stand out, a couple 339 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:44,480 of people who have connected to late partners or late parents 340 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:48,800 and had really incredibly healing experiences through 341 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:51,520 reconciling relationships with with people that have passed. 342 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:54,880 So that's that's been incredibly powerful to witness. 343 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:04,200 I think there's something in if I look at every, you know, group 344 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,320 session 1 to one session every, every session is, is there a 345 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:11,040 common thread? I think the common thread that 346 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:18,520 that I see is a connection to self that enables connection to 347 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:20,640 other people. And I think that's, again, it's 348 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:23,960 like a collective light bulb moment where everyone there in a 349 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:28,360 group session, 20 people, 100 people, however many is there 350 00:21:29,120 --> 00:21:31,760 lying down, eyes closed, having their own experience. 351 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:35,080 And then come the end of the session, they open their eyes 352 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:38,640 and there's a felt connection between the person that they 353 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:41,120 were next to, even if they're a complete stranger at the start. 354 00:21:41,120 --> 00:21:43,320 And I think that to me underpins all of it. 355 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:46,400 It's like the shared humanity. And it's waking up as, as you 356 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,400 said earlier, kind of that collective consciousness shift 357 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:53,160 where it's just like, oh, I just remembered I'm human. 358 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:55,840 And I can see that you've just remembered that you're human as 359 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:57,680 well. Isn't that nice? 360 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:01,160 And now we have a connection. And it's that coming back to, 361 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,200 you know, whether it's God, whether it's collective 362 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,840 consciousness, whether it's the universe, whatever you want to 363 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:10,560 call it, it's almost like we're stripping back some of the 364 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:13,600 layers and connecting more closely to that shared sense. 365 00:22:14,360 --> 00:22:17,320 And so have they. And so there's an inherent 366 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:19,320 connection. It's this idea that we're all, 367 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:21,320 you know, we're all ultimately connected. 368 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:26,600 And it's just that we forget, and we forget through the ego 369 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,240 and through the mind and through the separate self where we go, I 370 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:31,240 am this and you are that. And therefore we're not the 371 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:32,640 same. And then you do have an 372 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:34,640 experience with an altered state of consciousness and you go, 373 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:39,240 we're more or less the same, just with different layers built 374 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:41,840 up on top of that. So, yeah, I think that that 375 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,880 would be like the biggest singular thing that that I've 376 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:47,720 witnessed. Yeah, yeah, I've witnessed a 377 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:52,000 lot. And you know, one of the big, 378 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,360 one of the, one of the biggest ones that you actually know the 379 00:22:54,360 --> 00:22:59,800 guy, the biggest transformations that I've seen very, very 380 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:04,560 recently is a, is one of the guys that she curing a, a 381 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:08,960 stomach condition that you have for like 6-7 years of a really 382 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:12,760 intolerance of not being out between most foods and if you 383 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:16,000 would eat, eat stomach a blobby carpet rashes and so forth. 384 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:21,600 And we did a whole weekend essentially on or we did a 385 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:23,840 probably about 6-7 hours on forgiveness. 386 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:28,000 Yeah, just like work shopping on forgiveness and then went into 387 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:30,920 like, probably, you know, it's a good two hours of breath work 388 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:32,440 and a whole ceremony around that. 389 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:37,680 And there was about 35 guys and most men were processing some 390 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:39,400 form of forgiveness in their life. 391 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,120 This particular chap processed forgiveness for his father. 392 00:23:42,120 --> 00:23:44,240 They didn't even know he needed to do. 393 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,800 And that that came through because he was able to get rid 394 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:51,000 of the ego, get rid of his, you know, access more of his 395 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:52,840 subconscious. And then you get into some root 396 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:55,720 causes. How old is stomach condition? 397 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:57,040 Yeah. It's world, isn't it? 398 00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:00,480 Like this is the bit where, again, you know, science can 399 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,360 tell us bits about this, but then we see things happen like 400 00:24:03,360 --> 00:24:05,800 that. And for me, it's just further 401 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:12,760 confirmation of the role of the mind or the mind body in a lot 402 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,120 of these experiences of life, whether it's chronic illness, 403 00:24:15,120 --> 00:24:17,440 whether it's, you know, whatever it might be. 404 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:21,160 At what point did that start and what is the core driver? 405 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,280 Is it the fact that you are just allergic to that thing? 406 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,320 Or was it the thing that happened to you in your past 407 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:29,720 that led to this happening, this happening, this happening that 408 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:33,760 has led to this frontline symptom of allergy? 409 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:38,160 There's a woman who came on one of my last retreats who had been 410 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:42,480 struggling with chronic fatigue for I think four or five years. 411 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:46,680 And the last day of the retreat, the last breath work session, 412 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:51,360 she kind of came back around after the session and goes, I 413 00:24:51,360 --> 00:24:54,600 feel like the chronic fatigue has left my body. 414 00:24:55,400 --> 00:25:03,320 And I said, hold on to that, believe that and let's just keep 415 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:05,120 keep an eye on it. Let's see where it goes because 416 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,920 I don't want you to come up here and then crash again, Try and do 417 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,280 everything. Spoke to her a couple of weeks 418 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:12,640 later. She's like, yeah, it feels like 419 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:14,000 it's gone, feels like it's shifted. 420 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:15,960 And there's so many layers to that. 421 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,800 There's the the physiological processing piece that we've 422 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:22,760 we've spoken to. There's the belief system. 423 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:26,000 You know, if you're identifying as someone who has a condition, 424 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,000 your mind is going to be reconfirming that over and over 425 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,320 again. The mind is so much more 426 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:35,600 powerful than we have any ability to comprehend in terms 427 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,920 of how these things play out. And so there's, there's layers, 428 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:43,080 but to see again, it comes back to faith because I would love to 429 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:46,000 be able to sit here because I like to intellectualize things 430 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,320 and explain exactly why that's happened. 431 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:54,760 But again, comes back to faith. I go, it's happened so great and 432 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,800 kind of step back and let it happen and be able to, yes, 433 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,200 again, integration is a word that's come up a couple of 434 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,120 times, but like help people in the integration of that so that 435 00:26:04,120 --> 00:26:05,800 it can become a long lasting thing. 436 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:07,680 Because there's nothing worse than someone having an 437 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,840 experience like that and then cycling round and cycling round 438 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:13,040 and feeling like, oh, I am broken, I am broken. 439 00:26:13,360 --> 00:26:16,000 Why is it coming back and actually helping someone to kind 440 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:17,920 of progress within that process as well? 441 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:22,440 Yeah, when it comes to like the deepest somatic breath work, the 442 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:26,360 breath work where it is going into trauma, kneeling, 443 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,880 processing, talk to me about integration and like the 444 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,560 importance of that. Yeah, it's it's really, it's a 445 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:38,000 fancy time for making things stick. 446 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,560 It's taking the insights, it's taking the experiences and and 447 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:46,520 committing to integrating that into your life longer term. 448 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:50,720 Because with any psychedelic, with any altered state, the 449 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:56,280 difference between sort of alchemy and escapism is the 450 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,160 integration. Because we can all do the 451 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,160 breathwork session, half the high and then come back to where 452 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:01,880 we were before and be like, oh, that was fun, wasn't. 453 00:27:02,120 --> 00:27:04,440 It breathwork. Is cool, but that's it. 454 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:06,640 Or you know, the mushrooms, mushrooms are great. 455 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:12,040 I'll go do that again next week. And actually, if you're not 456 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,480 making this stuff stick, if you're not planting those roots 457 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:19,280 and allowing things to, to kind of bloom from there, then it is 458 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,400 just escapism. It really is. 459 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,680 And so integration can take many different forms. 460 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,400 But typically what I encourage people to do is, is some form 461 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:33,640 of, of journaling in the, in the recent kind of aftermath, also 462 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,040 meditation and just sitting with those experiences. 463 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:39,640 The daily breath work piece that we talked about in the first 464 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,360 episode of actually, how do you keep your system regulated? 465 00:27:42,360 --> 00:27:44,800 How do you kind of keep working towards that? 466 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:51,640 And also conversation Co regulation therapy to actually 467 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:56,240 go, oh, this is what I experienced, but I don't know 468 00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:58,680 how to make it stick and getting support with that. 469 00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:02,280 And then to put conversation we're having just before we 470 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,800 start recording this one, the embodiment of the integration. 471 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,240 So, so well and good going. I think I feel better now. 472 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:11,160 I go, OK, well, what's changed in your life? 473 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,360 What are you doing differently? That to me is, is a sign of 474 00:28:14,360 --> 00:28:18,720 integration having taken place, is that you are living from a 475 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:22,120 different place, not just with a different understanding. 476 00:28:22,120 --> 00:28:24,160 And I think that's where a lot of people get stuck. 477 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,920 And it's one of the things that I'm sort of trying to address in 478 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,720 my work at the moment is seeing how many people have got a bunch 479 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:34,200 of great lessons in the last few years, but their lives are the 480 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:39,320 same and they're going, I still feel shit, maybe even a little 481 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,640 bit shitter because I know what I could be doing differently, 482 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,480 but nothing's changed. And so how do we actually 483 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:50,800 integrate, properly integrate lived experience of difference 484 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,480 through making different choices and doing different things? 485 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,320 Because something that I experienced through integrating 486 00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:01,440 an ayahuasca experience was how uncomfortable doing things 487 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,080 differently felt to begin with and how easy it would have been 488 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,240 to go back to doing things how I did them before. 489 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:13,080 And actually weeks of, oh God, this, this doesn't feel normal. 490 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,000 And I really went to a place of like, what's wrong with me? 491 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,600 Like I don't feel normal. And then I had to just keep 492 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:20,600 reminding myself, this is what you wanted. 493 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:22,880 You didn't want to stay the same. 494 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,120 You didn't want to be in that place that you were before. 495 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,280 So things have to feel different and different is uncomfortable. 496 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:32,800 And so just reminding myself of that and going, I chose, I want 497 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,320 to choose a different path and that takes different action. 498 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:38,720 Different action will feel weird, but you just have to 499 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,240 commit to it until it feels normal, which takes us way back 500 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:43,080 to the first part of the first conversation. 501 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,000 Conscious breathing, functional breathing. 502 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:47,720 It'll feel weird and intentional to begin with until the point 503 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:49,600 that it doesn't. And I think that's the the big 504 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,160 factor. Yeah, I like that. 505 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:55,160 I like different action as well because there's a lot of, you 506 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,400 know, take action, action, action, action, take action. 507 00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:59,240 But actually it's different action. 508 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:03,080 And you're right on intellectualizing, you know, 509 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,440 it's, it's, it's you can have all the insights in the world, 510 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,320 but if you don't take a different form of action 511 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,000 afterwards, it's just the librarian of the mind. 512 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,360 It's just fucking. It's all in there, but nothing's 513 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:16,320 changed. I was that for a very long time. 514 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:21,000 I remember a podcast conversation I had almost five 515 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,320 years ago, I think, and the guy I was interviewing, great guy 516 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,640 said, you know, I like to look at it as having a PhD in my own 517 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,000 mind. I'm like, I loved that at the 518 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:31,520 time. I was like, me too, That's what 519 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:32,520 I'm doing. I love it. 520 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:34,080 I understand myself. I know all this stuff. 521 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:39,640 And if that's all you're doing, and that's not to downplay that 522 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:43,600 as a part of the process, but if that's all you're doing, I don't 523 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:47,560 know if that works. I genuinely don't because I've 524 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,480 seen it myself. Like you just become a very self 525 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:55,360 aware person and I without self actualization, without 526 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:57,520 integration, without doing anything differently. 527 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,600 I'm not sure what that gives you other than the ability to sit on 528 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:02,840 a podcast and talk about yourself. 529 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,040 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, it's, it's if we talk, we 530 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:08,480 go back into the first episode. We, we, we touched on like 531 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:12,080 masculine and feminine energies. self-awareness is very is a very 532 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,920 feminine energy. Being able to sit in yourself 533 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:16,840 awareness, but it's a good thing. 534 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,280 But if you sit in it for too long, you're just sitting in it. 535 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,920 There's no action. You're just sitting in it and 536 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,640 being aware of your awareness. Great. 537 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,640 But it's then it's like fucking sweet, got the awareness. 538 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:34,520 Now there's there's the insight. Now let's go back into a more of 539 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:37,400 a masculine before a guy, right? A male masculine energy. 540 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:39,000 What can we do now to take action? 541 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:40,800 How can I do some different action right now? 542 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:45,320 Yeah, and I think I very much view, you know, I used to talk 543 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,760 about this as sort of healing 1.0, healing 2.0. 544 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,120 So it's like 1.0 is an important part of the process. 545 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,320 You need to figure yourself out. You need to understand yourself, 546 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:55,800 otherwise the action is going to be misguided. 547 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,760 It's almost like that's the, you create the user manual to then 548 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,160 take action. And that might take six months, 549 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:06,400 a year, five years, 10 years. But within that you're always 550 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,200 iterating how you're acting and actually building. 551 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,480 You know, I've, I've changed tact a lot over the last few 552 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,000 years in terms of, you know, some of my views on things. 553 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,640 I'm very open to having my view changed on based on my 554 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:18,280 experience and based on conversation. 555 00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:22,120 But you're constantly refining it and constantly refining it. 556 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,800 And as, as you perfectly said, you know, if you're just sitting 557 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,400 in it, you're not really doing anything. 558 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,600 And ultimately, we're doing the work on ourselves. 559 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,480 Again, comes back to the first conversation we had so that 560 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:36,640 things can be different for ourselves and people around us. 561 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:40,080 And I think that's really important is, is to alchemize 562 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:44,000 the work for a purpose, whether that's your purpose or just a 563 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:45,680 purpose. Yeah, yeah, for sure. 564 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,880 I like, I like, I really like the word tolerate. 565 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:54,800 So it's like do some breath work, do some psychedelics, 566 00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:59,280 whatever, have the have the awareness, have the insights. 567 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:03,240 Then like a super easy thing to do is to look at your life and 568 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,040 go, where am I tolerating the things that go against the 569 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:07,840 inside? I've just had like what am I 570 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:11,080 tolerating in my life That just fucking goes against that. 571 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:15,200 Well, there's that in my relationships, that in my work, 572 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,120 that in my health. Then just look at this fix. 573 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:20,280 Just sort out. Just go, I'll do the different 574 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:23,160 thing. Then do that life change. 575 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:26,920 Absolutely. And I think it's we often put 576 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,880 ourselves in positions in our lives that confirm the beliefs 577 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:35,680 that we hold about ourselves. So one for me was a still is I 578 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:39,360 suppose I, I spend a lot of time and, and this is something I 579 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:41,760 view as a positive as well. I spend a lot of time with 580 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:43,920 people older and more successful than me. 581 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:48,920 Incredibly inspiring, drives me, motivates me, keeps me 582 00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:52,560 absolutely stuck in the belief that I'm not good enough because 583 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:56,960 I'm surrounded by people older than me and more, more quote UN 584 00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,840 quote, more successful than me. And so there's light and dark to 585 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:02,520 all of this. But again, it's come back to 586 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:04,040 that point of what you tolerating. 587 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:11,040 What positions or situations have you found yourself in that 588 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:15,199 make you uncomfortable or that you don't like in your life? 589 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,760 What belief is that confirming about yourself? 590 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,560 Because actually the beliefs, you know, that belief that I'm 591 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:24,800 not good enough is probably the one that I've held onto. 592 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:26,719 And I know for a lot of other people for as long as I can 593 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:30,120 remember. And so to change that I'm going 594 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,920 to feel different and different is hard. 595 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,280 It's easy to stay in that belief. 596 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:37,880 And so actually to start doing things differently, even if that 597 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,920 different is going to make you feel significantly better, can 598 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,280 feel really challenging. And so if you're in a position, 599 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,280 you know, a job that you don't like, a relationship that you 600 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:49,840 don't like, maybe asking that question of like, what belief is 601 00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,199 this confirming? Is it that, you know, I'm not 602 00:34:52,199 --> 00:34:56,239 worthy of love or that I will never be successful or I don't 603 00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,160 deserve something? And then go, do I want to 604 00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:00,920 believe that? How do I change that belief? 605 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,000 And then also how do I change that situation? 606 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:07,520 Yeah, fucking beliefs. There's some thoughts going 607 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:08,760 around your head, actually. I mean those. 608 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,280 Those beliefs, man, they but that's the thing. 609 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:15,000 It's, it's, it's a belief. A belief is something that we've 610 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:17,760 made-up. It's, it's, it's a story. 611 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:22,440 What the, The thing is like, like my arm right now, if I drop 612 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,280 it, what's dropping it? It's gravity that's dropping it. 613 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:27,080 Really. It's like that's what's pushing 614 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:28,240 it's that that's what pushing us down. 615 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:30,120 Gravity is science. It's real. 616 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:33,400 It's there a belief is not it's something that we've made-up. 617 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,360 It's a story for the most part that just bullshit. 618 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:39,640 But then for the most part, because we've held those beliefs 619 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:43,240 for so long, they are it's like it's the security in our 620 00:35:43,240 --> 00:35:46,760 insecurity. So we we gain security by 621 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:50,640 staying in that bullshit insecure belief and it's and 622 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,120 then it's on repeats patterns for all of our lives. 623 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:54,920 That's it. And I think, you know, I, I 624 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:57,960 speak a lot about autonomy and agency in my work at the moment, 625 00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:01,360 which is, you know, I ended up in a place in my life that I was 626 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,160 deeply miserable. And I felt like I'd ended up 627 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:09,520 there by accident because I just lived pretty unconsciously in a 628 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:13,160 state of autopilot. I was like, I've made choices, 629 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:15,960 but how many of those were my own? 630 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:18,880 How many of them were really driven by what I truly wanted? 631 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:23,600 Very, very few. And once you kind of can shake 632 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:27,680 yourself up to that fact of like, I've ended up somewhere 633 00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:32,120 seemingly by accident and I don't like it here, that's 634 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:34,800 almost the starting point. You go, OK, well, now's the 635 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,680 opportunity to do things differently, but knowing within 636 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:39,320 that that you're going to have to make some choices that might 637 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:42,080 feel uncomfortable because it's not familiar. 638 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:47,680 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And this is where for for men, 639 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:52,280 it's important to to go. I don't need to do this on my 640 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:55,720 own, I don't think. I've been trying on my own for 641 00:36:55,720 --> 00:36:57,400 fucking years and it's not working. 642 00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:03,720 Like find a men's group, find do some a breathwork coach, find a 643 00:37:03,720 --> 00:37:08,200 great therapist, find a shaman, whatever that looks like to go 644 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:09,640 right. Am I going to am I going to do 645 00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:11,640 this, but not on my own. Build the power team. 646 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:16,360 It's like best teams in the world or Navy Seals, best 647 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:19,320 companies in the world, Amazon. They're all built by the the 648 00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:22,400 teams. So it's having a superpower team 649 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:26,520 yourself to help you figure this shit out and then gain the right 650 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:30,800 actions to then change. 100% And I think I guess speaking to 651 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:33,600 that, like finding the unfamiliar and breaking out of 652 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:40,280 the, the sort of security of the the insecurity is also, and it's 653 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:44,360 hard, it's easier said than done, allowing yourself to seek 654 00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:50,600 out unfamiliar forms of support. So it might be the shaman or it 655 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,880 might be if you've always had a female therapist, it's a male 656 00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:55,600 therapist. Or if you've always gone to 657 00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:59,000 men's groups, maybe it's a mixed experience, like actually going 658 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:01,560 even in doing the work. And this is where it just gets 659 00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,240 fucking overcomplicated. But even in doing the work, 660 00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:08,080 where am I keeping myself stuck? Because I'm going to the 661 00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:11,040 familiar, I'm going, I'm going to the comfortable and I'm just 662 00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:15,360 reaffirming the beliefs that are already there rather than going, 663 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:19,800 How can I bust this wide open and actually get get some food 664 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:24,200 for thought from a place that you might not expect it because 665 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:27,200 that's where you're going to get the, I think this the kind of 666 00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:31,320 snippets of, of real gold and real change. 667 00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:39,120 Yeah, someone recently offered me to go and study and get 668 00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:42,120 trained in kundalini activation, right? 669 00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:45,680 And I was like, do you know what? 670 00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:49,640 Not right now, but because I've got my own things going on. 671 00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:51,760 It's just another thing on my plate that I don't need. 672 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:55,480 But at some stage next year I'll do that. 673 00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:57,240 Because for me, it's so fucking left wing. 674 00:38:57,240 --> 00:39:01,400 It's so the other way. It's completely different to all 675 00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:05,440 my very, very masculine orientated science backed 676 00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:08,800 modalities that I've but I'm very well trained and versed in 677 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:12,200 and I'm like, yeah, do you know what that makes me feel 678 00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:14,600 uncomfortable doing this completely whatever the fuck 679 00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:16,840 that is, right. And it's and it's very, very 680 00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:18,640 different. So I will do that. 681 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:20,680 Yeah, I think, I think that's it. 682 00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:24,440 It's it's the curiosity piece and, and knowing, especially 683 00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:28,520 with modalities and and faith systems, I think both of these 684 00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:33,760 probably speaks to is that they all come back to very similar 685 00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,600 places. So something like Kundalini's 686 00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:39,000 very much about getting into your body, about life force 687 00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:40,400 energy moving through your system. 688 00:39:42,240 --> 00:39:44,440 Could say exactly the same for conscious connective breathing 689 00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:48,680 in a different form. We're all, when you strip it 690 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:53,680 right back, we're all speaking very much to similar things, 691 00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:55,480 whether it's modalities or phase systems. 692 00:39:56,840 --> 00:40:03,640 Where do you see breath work evolving, particularly for for 693 00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:09,680 conscious guys, it's a. Timely question because I, I'm 694 00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:11,920 in a position right now where I feel like it has to evolve. 695 00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:15,600 It's evolving for me in terms of how I operate the business, how 696 00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:19,680 I practice myself. And again, it's very, very 697 00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:21,240 similar. And this is where I think just 698 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:23,960 the world is hilariously patent LED. 699 00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:26,960 It's similar to that healing one point O, healing 2 point O. 700 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:29,040 We could almost say breath work, one point O, breath work 2 point 701 00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:32,280 O, one point O is let's package this up as a really nice neat 702 00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:33,680 modality. Let's go. 703 00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:35,640 Here are your techniques, here are your tools, here are your 704 00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:36,920 workshops. There you go. 705 00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:39,200 And people can get a lot from it, but it's really the 706 00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:41,680 commercialization and commodification of the thing. 707 00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:45,560 And that is a really quick way to suck the life out of it, to 708 00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:48,760 suck the philosophy out of it, to suck the, the, the gold out 709 00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:51,440 of it. Ultimately, 2.0 is about how do 710 00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:54,480 we, how do we shift beyond that? And, and for me, this is about 711 00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:59,760 the breath is a, a fundamental part of, of everything that we 712 00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,360 do. And how can we really turn it 713 00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:06,360 back in, in the Western world, at least back into an integrated 714 00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:08,880 life philosophy. So people are just aware of 715 00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:10,840 their breath day-to-day. They know what tools they need 716 00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:14,280 to use, and then they're able to empower themselves to create 717 00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:17,160 change in their lives with breath as a part of that. 718 00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,320 So the three pillars that we mentioned in the first 719 00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:22,840 conversation of functional breathing, nervous system 720 00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:26,120 regulation and, and therapeutic breath work still apply. 721 00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:29,040 But the way that I'm now approaching it for breath work, 722 00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:33,960 2 point O is breath work is a gateway to reclaim awareness, 723 00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:36,840 autonomy and purpose. So rather than speaking about 724 00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:39,920 the tool, we're speaking about the, the thing that it empowers 725 00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:44,240 you to, to gain access to. So to reclaim awareness, 726 00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:48,200 autonomy and purpose. And the breath can do all of 727 00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:50,880 those things for us. And so that for me is if I were 728 00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:54,000 prescribing something or drawing up a road map for people to to 729 00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:58,480 go and follow is explore breath work and perhaps you go breath 730 00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:00,520 work. One point O first is a way into 731 00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:05,040 that part of the journey. But also, rather than thinking 732 00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:09,160 about what, what breath work tool do I want to use? 733 00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:11,240 It's going, why am I seeking this thing? 734 00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:14,240 What is my intention here? What am I trying to get from 735 00:42:14,240 --> 00:42:17,240 this? Am I struggling with awareness, 736 00:42:17,240 --> 00:42:20,760 balance, autonomy, agency, purpose, meaning, what is it? 737 00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:24,760 And then seek accordingly and apply accordingly. 738 00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:27,560 So I think it's it's more about that for me now of how do we 739 00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:33,800 create an integrated life philosophy that supports us not 740 00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:36,360 just in the moment of doing the practice, but just across the 741 00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:41,920 board. Yeah, I can sync that with 742 00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:44,800 something that I say to guys because I think with with guys, 743 00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:46,800 particularly when I get into self development, personal 744 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:50,280 development, it's all about how. Pete, just give me the fucking 745 00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:51,840 road map mate. Give me 3 steps. 746 00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:54,640 How what, what do I need to do and how. 747 00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:58,560 And that is very much the 1.0. It's the, it's the in the breath 748 00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:00,800 work, it's the workshop, it's the, it's the trainings, it's 749 00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:04,480 the it's the how. But the two point O and the same 750 00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:06,320 as self development, it's not about the how, it's about The 751 00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:08,440 Who. It's never about the how. 752 00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:11,280 It's always about The Who you are, who you are being and who 753 00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:13,320 you are becoming. That's like the two point O 754 00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:14,440 there. Yeah, and it's it. 755 00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:18,360 You know, how implies that there's a solution, it implies 756 00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:20,720 that there's an end goal. And I think that The Who is the 757 00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:23,920 that's the journey, Who is the journey, The Who is the 758 00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:27,760 acceptance, The Who is the, the seeking without a desire to to 759 00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:31,920 find something other than to continue the journey. 760 00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:34,600 I even see it. It's something I've been talking 761 00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:38,000 quite a lot about recently as well with non fiction and 762 00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:40,160 fiction. You know, I've pretty much 763 00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:43,480 solely read non fiction for the last five years, learned lots, 764 00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:46,920 understood lots, gained lots of knowledge and and awareness. 765 00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:52,520 Now almost exclusively reading fiction, interesting fiction of 766 00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:55,920 like philosophy and mystery and and stuff that is still, you 767 00:43:55,920 --> 00:44:00,520 know, fascinating to me. But very much viewing that as 768 00:44:01,240 --> 00:44:03,120 reading nonfiction is information gathering. 769 00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:05,440 That is the how and then fiction is going. 770 00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:09,680 How am I choosing to interpret this story through the lens of 771 00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:11,720 who I am? And it's empowering The Who. 772 00:44:11,720 --> 00:44:13,960 Like what am I choosing to take away from this story? 773 00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:17,440 What is it making me feel? How is it making me think? 774 00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:22,440 And it's much more of a personal interpretation and integration 775 00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:26,040 of a story rather than give me some knowledge and I'll remember 776 00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:28,200 it and then I'll might spit it back out at some point. 777 00:44:28,720 --> 00:44:30,720 So I do, I think that's something that that we're seeing 778 00:44:30,720 --> 00:44:36,000 across the board is this one point O2 point O shift in so 779 00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:38,680 many different aspects of of development. 780 00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:42,600 Yeah, yeah, absolutely right, Jamie. 781 00:44:42,720 --> 00:44:45,080 Let's wrap it up, mate. Good to see you on the. 782 00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:47,600 Mic Yeah, good to see you, Mike. Same. 783 00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:51,120 Thank you for tuning in and we'll be back next week with 784 00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:52,440 another one. Cheers guys.