1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,880 I think it's particularly important for men because of its 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:09,920 capacity to act as a non verbal form of psyche exploration and 3 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:12,640 and as a therapeutic tool. But I do still think for a lot 4 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:15,280 of people, but men in particular, being able to go in 5 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:18,160 and process stuff where it's all internal and you're able to 6 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:20,840 process and reconcile stuff is is a really powerful thing. 7 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:25,040 Also because of the role that breath in this form can play in 8 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:27,280 clearing and processing emotional charge that we hold 9 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:29,720 within the nervous system that has usually come about as a 10 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:38,840 result of repression. Right, welcome back to the 11 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,920 Heroic man. This is Round 2 with Jamie 12 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:45,920 Clements, the breath Workman of London, right? 13 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:47,680 This this episode we're going to go a little bit deeper. 14 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:51,280 So last episode, if you haven't listened to it yet, TuneIn, we 15 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:54,320 talked about the fundamentals of breath work. 16 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:57,760 Super interesting. Some really great insights there 17 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:00,720 and some how to's. This time we're going to go a 18 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:06,560 little bit deeper on the power of breath work and how it can 19 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:13,560 activate existing trauma and can help process healing and then 20 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:15,640 some of our own experiences around that. 21 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:22,240 So, Jamie, what is conscious connected breath work? 22 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:28,160 It's a good place to begin. So I'm going to call it CCB 23 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:32,480 because it's less of a mouthful. So if people are wondering what 24 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:34,720 CCB is through rest is conversation conscious connected 25 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:39,000 breath work. So CCB is the underpinning 26 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:44,320 technique of pretty much every healing informed style of breath 27 00:01:44,320 --> 00:01:46,800 work. So whether you're coming across 28 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,000 something like transformational breath, whether you're coming 29 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:52,040 across soma breath work, cholotropic breath work, all of 30 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:55,840 these kind of sub modalities, they're all underpinned by some 31 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:57,720 form of, of conscious connected breathing. 32 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:02,520 And this is a continuous circular pattern of breathing 33 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:08,919 usually done through the mouth that is delivered in either A1 34 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:13,280 to one or group setting to create an altered state of 35 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:15,560 consciousness. That is really kind of the the 36 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:20,240 what that has typically been done, as I said, kind of through 37 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:25,320 a helium formed lens to in a similar way to psychedelic 38 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:29,400 therapies where we're looking to explore that altered state of 39 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:35,400 consciousness in whatever form it shows up to see what lies 40 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:39,680 beneath that day-to-day waking state consciousness. 41 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:42,200 So very ego LED, monkey mind LED. 42 00:02:42,640 --> 00:02:46,400 We're not very tuned into the subconscious and we can use CCB 43 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:50,120 to really flip into this non ordinary state where these 44 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:52,840 protector parts, these ego parts get quieter and quieter and 45 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:54,760 quieter. And the subconscious mind, the 46 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:57,400 emotional body, you can get closer and closer to the 47 00:02:57,400 --> 00:02:59,800 surface. And when that happens, that can 48 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:02,200 show up as a very physical experience. 49 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:04,840 It can show up as a very cathartic emotional experience. 50 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:09,600 We can start connecting to memories, to past experiences, 51 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:14,840 whatever it might be. It's this, this tool ultimately 52 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:17,680 that that opens us up in whatever form that takes. 53 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:20,320 And that can be really varied as I'm sure we'll kind of dive into 54 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:22,360 when we talk about personal experience a bit more. 55 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:27,440 But yeah, at its core, it's a healing modality. 56 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:31,560 It's an exploratory healing tool. 57 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:37,960 How does it work? We're still unpacking that is, 58 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:43,560 is the I guess the the honest answer and the factual answer 59 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:48,480 from what we know and I guess what I know through looking at 60 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:51,520 research and through anecdotal and and sort of evidence back 61 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:57,040 research as well. What is going on the 1st domino 62 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:00,920 really in the experience is the change in breathing pattern and 63 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:04,640 breathing volume creating a change in oxygen and carbon 64 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:07,200 dioxide levels in the in the body and the brain, particularly 65 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:08,880 paying attention to carbon dioxide. 66 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:15,240 When we lower CO2 levels in the in the blood in the body, we are 67 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:18,519 which is what happened is happening with CCB. 68 00:04:18,519 --> 00:04:24,840 We create this physical shift, so we get a bunch of physical 69 00:04:24,840 --> 00:04:27,280 changes going on in the body that lead to the tingling that 70 00:04:27,280 --> 00:04:31,440 people experience, that lead to changes in temperature, physical 71 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:35,120 sensations. We get decrease in blood flow, 72 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:40,200 so we get vasoconstriction. We also get or can get something 73 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:43,600 called tetany, which is where we get a reduction in ionized 74 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:45,920 calcium in the blood and we get a bit cramping in the 75 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:50,160 extremities. That drop in blood CO2 leads to 76 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:54,600 that from a physical standpoint, it then also leads to hypoxia, 77 00:04:54,600 --> 00:05:00,720 so low oxygen in both the body and the brain, which then seems 78 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:04,960 to lead to further experiential aspects of it. 79 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:10,400 So the shortest version of kind of what is going on as a result 80 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:13,480 of those biological and physiological changes is that 81 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:19,720 we're able to create a trance like hypnotic state where these 82 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:24,640 protective parts of the mind are less active and the more 83 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:26,640 emotional aspects and subconscious aspects of the 84 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:31,840 brain become more active. And that seems to open up this 85 00:05:31,840 --> 00:05:35,040 altered state, mystical state that many people experience 86 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:36,800 through breath work. Yeah, yeah. 87 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:43,040 And then how does that then relate to being able to process 88 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:49,160 past trauma? So if we think about trauma, 89 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:53,320 which is a an interesting word because it's just it's been 90 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:56,080 thrown around so much and discussed so much in in social 91 00:05:56,080 --> 00:06:00,200 media world that I think we have different interpretations of 92 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:06,920 what it means. If we look at trauma as adverse 93 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:14,840 past experiences that have left a legacy of that experience in 94 00:06:14,840 --> 00:06:17,000 your nervous system, in your brain, in your body. 95 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:24,280 When we go into that state through the breath where these 96 00:06:24,280 --> 00:06:28,880 protector parts, these guards within our brain that do a very 97 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:32,120 good job of keeping us safe. That is part of their part of 98 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:35,520 their role. When they are less active, 99 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:40,760 aspects of past adverse experiences can begin to 100 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:42,680 resurface. That could be through memories. 101 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,760 That could be through emotional charge in the body. 102 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:48,520 If we think about the way that we we hold that emotional energy 103 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:52,080 of past experiences in the nervous system to actually begin 104 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:58,600 to bring it to the surface. Often with past adverse 105 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:05,320 experiences, we end up almost guarding ourselves from the 106 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:08,400 processing of them because at that point in time where that 107 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:11,040 event occurred, we needed to be protected from it. 108 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:14,840 Our nervous system wasn't able to hold that experience. 109 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:16,160 We didn't have the capacity for it. 110 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:19,080 And so we might have shut down, we might have cut ourselves off 111 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:21,080 from it. We might have compartmentalized 112 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:25,880 it, put it in a box. And so we then keep ourselves 113 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:28,720 safe from it in that moment, but also going forward. 114 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:32,400 And that is what can lead to some of these ingrained 115 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:35,640 behaviour patterns as a result of trauma, is that we are still 116 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:37,920 keeping ourselves safe from something that perhaps even 117 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:41,200 happened in childhood. And so when we open up this 118 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:48,160 altered state and we almost change brain activity through 119 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:53,920 the breath, we are able to explore aspects of those 120 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:57,280 experiences that we may have been protecting ourselves from, 121 00:07:57,280 --> 00:07:59,480 even at a point where we no longer needed to be kept safe 122 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:01,680 from them. And when we can go into those in 123 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:09,600 a safe held environment to recontextualize and readdress 124 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:11,920 our relationship with that experience, that's where we 125 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:16,320 might start to hear the language of healing trauma. 126 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:19,640 Because we're going, OK, there's a memory coming up here. 127 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:21,160 This is something really, really common. 128 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:23,400 A memory coming through here is something that I completely 129 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:25,840 forgotten about. That is a challenging memory. 130 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,680 There's emotion attached to it. There's there's fear attached to 131 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:32,880 it in a lot of cases. But in a safe space where I'm 132 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:37,480 better resourced as an adult to face that, to understand that, 133 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:42,240 to interpret that to, yeah, readdress my relationship with 134 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:46,560 it. You can then start to work with 135 00:08:46,560 --> 00:08:52,840 that in a safe container with support, guidance, facilitation 136 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:55,680 to come out the other side with a slightly different 137 00:08:55,680 --> 00:08:57,000 relationship with that experience. 138 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:00,360 For sure, yeah, yeah. I'll give you an example. 139 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:08,160 So an example for me that I got a download, essentially, I got a 140 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:13,080 memory like you just said there that I hadn't Oh, and 37, I 141 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:18,040 hadn't fucking remembered this, that when I was 11 or 12 years 142 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:21,760 old, looks like I, I was able to access this by doing breath work 143 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:23,520 and, and getting into a deep meditation. 144 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:27,120 When I was 11-12 years old, I'd locked myself in my bathroom 145 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:29,520 when my parents were together and lots of we had big, big 146 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:32,960 house, big family bathroom and we're going to school And I lock 147 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:36,720 myself in there because I was convinced my father didn't love 148 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:38,240 me as much as he loved my brother. 149 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:41,280 And it was like, I was like, fucking hell, that's fucking 150 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:46,360 deep that I'd remembered that as you know, I was 1112 year old, 151 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:49,200 now I'm 37. But now being able to look back 152 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:51,920 at that and go, well, how can I look at that from an adult's 153 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:55,440 perspective, a man's perspective, rather than the 154 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:58,800 little, little boy who was, he was scared, didn't think his dad 155 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:00,160 loved him as much he loved his brother. 156 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:02,600 And how can I look at that and then see where else that is 157 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:06,280 affecting my life in terms of my own self worth, my own self love 158 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:10,720 and so forth, and how I'm also parenting my own son? 159 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:15,280 Super powerful to be able to access that through breath. 160 00:10:15,680 --> 00:10:17,400 Yeah. And it's fascinating. 161 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:22,480 Like I, yeah, I've been doing this myself as a an individual 162 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:26,920 for coming up to 7-8 years and practicing and teaching for 5-6 163 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:31,480 years. I'm always fascinated by 164 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:36,080 individual experiences and my own because I'm like, I can give 165 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:40,400 that explanation that I gave of what's happening, but that still 166 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:44,560 to me is just, you know, it's very surface of like, OK, by, by 167 00:10:44,560 --> 00:10:48,400 the by, I want to know the what of what someone experienced 168 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:51,280 because that's the power. And I remember even when I did 169 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:54,360 one of my trainings, I would be asking questions of like, yeah, 170 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:56,000 but what's going on in the brain because I wanted to 171 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:57,320 intellectualize it and understand it. 172 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:00,040 And my teacher just had no time for it. 173 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:04,320 He was like, doesn't really matter so long as we know that 174 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:06,760 it's safe and there are certain medical contraindications, 175 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:09,720 disclaimers, so on and so forth as to why someone might not do 176 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:12,240 it. But as long as we know that it's 177 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:17,080 safe, it's the experience that matters, not why it's happening. 178 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:19,480 We just like to intellectualize this stuff. 179 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:21,680 It's part of the process. And especially when it comes to 180 00:11:21,680 --> 00:11:25,320 regulation scaling, when it comes to getting this into to 181 00:11:25,680 --> 00:11:28,680 broader audiences, it's important that we know what's 182 00:11:28,680 --> 00:11:34,240 going on so that it can be safe. But the the experiential side of 183 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:37,560 it is so powerful and so undeniable. 184 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:40,640 And you go, OK, like we can put the science to one side and just 185 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:42,520 look at what is happening in front of us. 186 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:46,400 And for me, one of the the kind of landmark experiences for me 187 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:48,920 back in back in the day when I was first getting into this work 188 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:53,600 was I'd been, for want of a better term, struggling with 189 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:57,160 depression for, you know, on and off for the best part of 10 190 00:11:57,160 --> 00:11:59,960 years. And my depression was very much 191 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:04,560 a numbness and a shutting down where I would didn't experience 192 00:12:04,560 --> 00:12:08,320 major highs, had some big lows, but it was mostly just pretty 193 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:10,760 numb. And I had one experience with 194 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:15,880 with breath work where I felt this joy like this euphoria that 195 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:20,320 I hadn't experienced or that it'd been such a long time since 196 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:23,160 I had experienced it that I'd forgotten it was possible. 197 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:25,760 And it was this light bulb moment where I was like, Oh my 198 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:30,200 God, it almost in that moment lifted me out of the depression 199 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:32,440 that I was experiencing. And obviously it took work and 200 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:35,800 integration beyond that, but it just woke something off him up 201 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:38,640 in me to go, oh, that's possible. 202 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:40,760 That's, that's doable, That's real. 203 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:44,360 And because you've experienced it and it's a felt experience, 204 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:46,840 that's an incredibly powerful thing. 205 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:50,720 And that I was listening to a conversation about psychedelics 206 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:53,640 and altered states of consciousness, where when we 207 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:59,920 have these somatic, bodily, very real felt experiences of 208 00:12:59,920 --> 00:13:02,680 something through psychedelics, through breath work, through 209 00:13:02,680 --> 00:13:07,320 whatever it might be, it can almost act as a, an inverse 210 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:09,360 trauma. If we think about trauma as this 211 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:13,840 negative legacy of a, of a, a challenging experience, if we 212 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:18,440 have a uniquely positive experience, why wouldn't that be 213 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:21,800 able to leave a similar legacy, a similar mark? 214 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:24,720 And I definitely think, you know, the fact that I can still 215 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:27,440 remember that experience to speak about that experience 7-8 216 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:31,360 years on certainly speaks to that for me of like the what is 217 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:37,240 the positive knock on effect of a intensely powerful felt 218 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:39,320 positive experience. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 219 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:43,680 Why do you think as a guy, why do you think it's this sort of 220 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:48,440 this sort of going deeper into breath work is important for 221 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:52,760 men? I think it's particularly 222 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:59,400 important for men because of its capacity to act as a non verbal 223 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:04,000 form of psyche exploration and and as a therapeutic tool. 224 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:09,040 So two sides to it, non verbal because you know, there's this 225 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:12,120 legacy of men struggling to to vocalize and talk about what 226 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:14,000 they're feeling. I think it's starting to become 227 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:16,400 outdated because a lot of people doing a lot of good work. 228 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:19,760 But I do still think for a lot of people, but men in 229 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:23,960 particular, being able to go in and process stuff where it's all 230 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:26,720 it's all internal and you're able to process and reconcile 231 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:28,560 stuff is is a really powerful thing. 232 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:32,520 And also because of the role that breath in this form can 233 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:37,440 play in clearing and processing emotional charge that we hold 234 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:39,880 within the nervous system that has usually come about as a 235 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:43,920 result of repression. And again, men, historically, 236 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:46,400 emotional repression is a big challenge and a big, a big 237 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:50,760 issue. And so it's a really potent tool 238 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:54,440 to help people go inward, which is great, but also to clear and 239 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:58,760 process that that weight of emotional energy that we're 240 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:01,200 holding within the within the nervous system, when within the 241 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,880 body. And then I think an extra bonus 242 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:08,320 point from my perspective at least, is that I see it 243 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:13,520 connecting people to a sense of spirituality and a sense of 244 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:17,240 something bigger than ourselves. And I think again, this is 245 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:19,840 broad, broader than men for sure. 246 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:23,120 But certainly for guys, we are quite, we can be quite 247 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:27,560 blinkered, quite logical minded, quite intellectualizing of, of 248 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:29,920 life. And that can be quite a quick 249 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:33,800 route to, to misery as well. When all you believe in is the 6 250 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:35,520 inches in front of your face and nothing else. 251 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:38,400 That can lead to challenges as well from a mental health 252 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:40,240 perspective. And so having these big 253 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:42,800 expansive experiences that kind of shake you up and wake you up, 254 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:46,200 you go, Jesus Christ, there's more to life than just wake up 255 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:48,640 and grind and lift some weights. And I think that's a really 256 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:49,960 powerful piece of the puzzle as well. 257 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:55,480 It is that that essentially can give a man faith and hope which 258 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:58,920 is shown which is powerful is why religion can be incredibly 259 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:01,560 powerful whatever religion because it gives people faith 260 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:05,600 and faith can get you through the darkest at times. 100% what? 261 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:09,640 What's your journey been like with I suppose spirituality and 262 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:13,280 and faith? Yeah, so I'd actually say when I 263 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:20,080 was in my early 20s, I had like a timid relationship with God, 264 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:23,160 right. I wanted to to believe God was 265 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:26,720 there, but didn't really know how to go about doing that. 266 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:29,160 Then in my mid 20s, I lost my best mate in a car accident. 267 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,640 So then it was like, fuck you, like God doesn't exist. 268 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,160 And it was a big fuck you to, to whatever that looked like. 269 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:40,080 But actually in my mid 30s when I started to step into more this 270 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:43,480 sort of work, men's work and that sort of spaces, going to 271 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:46,480 breath work, going to some psychedelics that opened me up. 272 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:51,920 And actually whether that's God, the universe, spirit, a higher 273 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:54,960 force. I now do have a belief that 274 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:58,240 there is something there, that there is a higher force. 275 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:01,040 And it just, I'll tell you what makes life a little bit more 276 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:05,160 exciting just to be open to that rather than close to it, to be 277 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:06,920 able to have deeper conversations. 278 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:13,079 And I'll give you an example, probably two months ago when I 279 00:17:13,079 --> 00:17:18,520 did my last men's event in London, We do also somatic 280 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:20,359 breath work. And I don't participate myself, 281 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:23,119 someone else does. But I had an enlightening 282 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:26,800 experience there where I essentially saw Jesus and then 283 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:30,800 saw a goddess come in and, and it was incredibly powerful that 284 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:35,320 my own mind created that. And it's very, very 285 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:36,840 enlightening. It's like an out of body 286 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:40,400 experience. And that's exciting, Yeah. 287 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:43,480 To be able to do that and to be able to to know that you can 288 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:48,360 create that inner peace and that inner enlightenment as just as a 289 00:17:48,360 --> 00:17:50,640 man. Yeah, yeah, it's fascinating. 290 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:57,120 I think there's a woman called Doctor Lisa Miller who's done a 291 00:17:57,120 --> 00:18:01,080 lot of research on the role of spirituality of mental and 292 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:03,560 emotional health. And her view is that we're all 293 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:07,400 innately spiritual beings that, that actually we just lose our 294 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:10,240 connection with it rather than have to build our connection 295 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:12,080 with it. And it's often about 296 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:15,240 reconnecting to that. And, and it's fascinating based 297 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:20,080 on what we do know about the neuroscience of altered states 298 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:23,200 of consciousness and mystical states, that there seems to be 299 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:29,600 a, a commonality of spiritual experiences through these 300 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:32,520 altered states of consciousness. It's it's sort of it leads us 301 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,560 there, whether, you know, whatever you want to call it, 302 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:38,480 whatever you end up just deciding to believe in or have 303 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:43,920 faith in, all roads lead back to, to some sense of 304 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:45,880 spirituality. And I think you're absolutely 305 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:47,800 right. I think, you know, I most of my 306 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:50,960 life grew, kind of grew up as a pretty staunch intellectual 307 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,240 atheist. I was like, yeah, but there's no 308 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:54,720 evidence. So why would I believe in that? 309 00:18:55,040 --> 00:19:00,280 And actually, it's a pretty bleak place to live from because 310 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:03,440 you're like, well, I have to see something and feel something to 311 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:05,280 believe it. Otherwise it's not worth 312 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:06,840 anything. And actually, that just cuts you 313 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:11,000 off from. Yeah, the excitement and I don't 314 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:13,800 even the expansiveness that comes with actually going. 315 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:16,320 There's so much and I think that's maybe where all the 316 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:19,360 states of consciousness come in is it shows you that there is so 317 00:19:19,360 --> 00:19:23,160 much that you do not know. And it's that not knowing that I 318 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:25,640 think underpins faith. Faith is underpinned by an 319 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:31,120 inevitable non knowing or kind of a gap in certainty. 320 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:36,440 And to think that you to think with absolute certainty that you 321 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:39,920 know everything is pretty naive in my in my opinion. 322 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:43,480 And so I think once you connect to something that shows you how 323 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:48,240 little you know, that's where faith starts to to bleed into to 324 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:52,520 your life. What would you say in what's 325 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:57,320 been the most breathtaking experience that you've had or 326 00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:00,800 you've seen witnessed through like conscious connected breath 327 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:04,160 work? So the one that I spoke to for 328 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:08,000 myself was, was like a light bulb moment that that turned on, 329 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:10,200 I think everything that's happened since. 330 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,720 So that was the one where I went, oh, I wonder how one would 331 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:15,600 go about teaching this to people. 332 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:17,840 And I had a conversation with the guy that ran that session. 333 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:21,360 Now I'm still in touch with the week after that. 334 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:24,480 And I was like, oh, OK. And that and that to me has kind 335 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:29,720 of changed my life trajectory. I've seen, so you know, 336 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:32,880 thousands of people come through sessions. 337 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:38,200 There's some that are quite recent that, that stand out, a 338 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:43,480 couple of people who have connected to late partners or or 339 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:48,560 late parents and had really incredibly healing experiences 340 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:50,800 through reconciling relationships with with people 341 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:53,960 that have passed. So that's that's been incredibly 342 00:20:53,960 --> 00:21:02,040 powerful to witness. I think there's something in if 343 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:05,400 I look at every, you know, group session, one to one session, 344 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:08,280 every, every session is is there a common thread? 345 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:16,320 I think the common thread that that I see is a connection to 346 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:19,160 self that enables connection to other people. 347 00:21:19,360 --> 00:21:21,920 And I think that's, again, it's like a collective light bulb 348 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:26,080 moment where everyone there in a group session, 20 people, 100 349 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:30,840 people, however many is there lying down, eyes closed, having 350 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:33,520 their own experience. And then come the end of the 351 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:37,760 session, they open their eyes and there's a felt connection 352 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:39,960 between the person that they were next to, even if they're a 353 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,000 complete stranger at the start. And I think that to me underpins 354 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:44,880 all of it. It's like the shared humanity. 355 00:21:45,120 --> 00:21:47,760 And it's waking up as, as you said earlier, kind of that 356 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:52,120 collective consciousness shift where it's just like, oh, I just 357 00:21:52,120 --> 00:21:54,600 remembered I'm human. And I can see that you've just 358 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:56,320 remembered that you're human as well. 359 00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,120 Isn't that nice? And now we have a connection. 360 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:03,440 And it's that coming back to, you know, whether it's God, 361 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:05,680 whether it's collective consciousness, whether it's the 362 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:09,000 universe, whatever you want to call it, it's almost like we're 363 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:11,480 stripping back some of the layers and connecting more 364 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:15,560 closely to that shared sense. And so have they. 365 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:18,040 And so there's a, an inherent connection. 366 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:20,760 It's this idea that we're all, you know, we're all ultimately 367 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:23,440 connected. And it's just that we forget, 368 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:27,720 and we forget through the ego and through the mind and through 369 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,480 the separate self where we go, I am this and you are that. 370 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:31,720 And therefore we're not the same. 371 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:33,720 And then you do have an experience with an altered state 372 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:37,600 of consciousness and you go, we're more or less the same, 373 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:40,080 just with different layers built up on top of that. 374 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,400 So, yeah, I think that that would be like the biggest 375 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:45,400 singular thing that that I've witnessed. 376 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,120 Yeah, yeah, I've witnessed a lot. 377 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:52,920 And you know, one of the big, one of the, one of the biggest 378 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:58,640 ones that you actually know the guy, the biggest transformations 379 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,760 that I've seen very, very recently is a, is one of the 380 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:06,120 guys actually curing a, a stomach condition that you have 381 00:23:06,120 --> 00:23:10,480 for like 6-7 years of a really intolerance of not being out 382 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:14,120 there to eat most foods. And if you would eat stomach 383 00:23:14,120 --> 00:23:16,040 blah pick up and rashes and so forth. 384 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:21,560 And we did a whole weekend essentially on, or we did 385 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:23,800 probably about 6-7 hours on forgiveness. 386 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:28,040 Yeah, just like work shopping on forgiveness and then went into 387 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:30,960 like, probably, you know, it's a good two hours of breath work 388 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:32,480 and a whole ceremony around that. 389 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:37,720 And there was about 35 guys and most men were processing some 390 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:39,440 form of forgiveness in their life. 391 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,200 This particular chap processed forgiveness for his father. 392 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,280 They didn't even know he needed to do. 393 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:47,840 And that that came through because he was able to get rid 394 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:51,040 of the ego, get rid of his, you know, access more of his 395 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:54,960 subconscious and actually get into some root causes, held his 396 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,080 stomach condition. Yeah, it's world, isn't it? 397 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:00,520 Like this is the bit where, again, you know, science can 398 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,400 tell us bits about this, but then we see things happen like 399 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,840 that. And for me, it's just further 400 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:12,800 confirmation of the role of the mind or the mind body in a lot 401 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,160 of these experiences of life, whether it's chronic illness, 402 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:17,480 whether it's, you know, whatever it might be. 403 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,160 At what point did that start and what is the core driver? 404 00:24:21,360 --> 00:24:24,320 Is it the fact that you are just allergic to that thing? 405 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,360 Or was it the thing that happened to you in your past 406 00:24:27,360 --> 00:24:29,760 that led to this happening, this happening, this happening that 407 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:33,800 has led to this frontline symptom of allergy? 408 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:38,000 There was a woman who came on one of my last retreats who had 409 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,960 been struggling with chronic fatigue for I think four or five 410 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,680 years. And the last day of the retreat, 411 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,480 last breath work session, she kind of came back around after 412 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:53,920 the session and goes, I feel like the chronic fatigue has 413 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:59,080 left my body. And I said, hold on to that, 414 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,960 believe that and let's just keep keep an eye on it. 415 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,240 Let's see where it goes because I don't want you to come up here 416 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,440 and then crash again, Try and do everything. 417 00:25:09,360 --> 00:25:10,560 Spoke to her a couple of weeks later. 418 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:14,000 So yeah, it feels like it's gone, feels like it shifted. 419 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:16,000 And there's so many layers to that. 420 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,840 There's the the physiological processing piece that we've 421 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:22,800 we've spoken to. There's the belief system. 422 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:26,080 You know, if you're identifying as someone who has a condition, 423 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,080 your mind is going to be reconfirming that over and over 424 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,360 again. The mind is so much more 425 00:25:31,360 --> 00:25:35,640 powerful than we have any ability to comprehend in terms 426 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:39,000 of how these things play out. And so there's, there's layers, 427 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:43,160 but to see again, it comes back to faith because I would love to 428 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,040 be able to sit here because I like to intellectualize things 429 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:48,360 and explain exactly why that's happened. 430 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:54,800 But again, comes back to faith. I go, it's happened so great and 431 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:58,840 kind of step back and let it happen and be able to, yes, 432 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,240 again, integration is a word that's come up a couple of 433 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,000 times, but like help people in the integration of that so that 434 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:05,840 it, it can become a long lasting thing. 435 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:07,760 Because there's nothing worse than someone having an 436 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,880 experience like that and then cycling round and cycling round 437 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,120 and feeling like, oh, I am broken, I am broken. 438 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,080 Why is it coming back and actually helping someone to kind 439 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:17,960 of progress within that process as well? 440 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:22,080 Yeah, when it comes to like the deepest semantic breath work, 441 00:26:22,360 --> 00:26:26,400 the breath work where it is going into trauma, healing, 442 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,920 processing, talk to me about integration and like the 443 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,600 importance of that. Yeah, it's it's really, it's a 444 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:38,000 fancy time for making things stick. 445 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:41,600 It's taking the insights, it's taking the experiences and and 446 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:46,560 committing to integrating that into your life longer term. 447 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:50,720 Because with any psychedelic, with any altered state, the 448 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:56,320 difference between sort of alchemy and escapism is the 449 00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:58,200 integration. Because we can all do the 450 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:00,000 breathwork, session half the high, and then come back to 451 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:01,800 where we were before and be like, oh, that was fun, wasn't 452 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:02,120 it? Breath. 453 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:03,160 Work. Breath work. 454 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:05,760 Is cool, but that's it. Or you know, the mushrooms, 455 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,560 mushrooms are great. I'll go do that again next week. 456 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:14,280 And actually, if you're not making this stuff stick, if 457 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:16,800 you're not planting those roots and allowing things to, to kind 458 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,600 of bloom from there, then it is just escapism. 459 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,760 It really is. And so integration can take many 460 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:26,200 different forms. But typically what I encourage 461 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:30,200 people to do is, is some form of, of journaling in the, in the 462 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:35,880 recent kind of aftermath, also meditation and just sitting with 463 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,720 those experiences. The daily breath work piece that 464 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:40,960 we talked about in the first episode of actually, how do you 465 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,600 keep your system regulated? How do you kind of keep working 466 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:49,880 towards that? And also conversation Co 467 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,680 regulation therapy to actually go, oh, this is what I 468 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:57,840 experienced, but I don't know how to make it stick and getting 469 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:01,280 support with that. And then to put conversation 470 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:04,400 we're having just before we start recording this one, the 471 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:08,000 embodiment of the integration. So it's all well and good going. 472 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,880 I think I feel better now. OK, OK, well, what's changed in 473 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:12,160 your life? What are you doing differently? 474 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:16,200 That to me is, is a sign of integration having taken place, 475 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:21,040 is that you are living from a different place, not just with a 476 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,000 different understanding. And I think that's where a lot 477 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,200 of people get stuck. And it's one of the things that 478 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,480 I'm sort of trying to address in my work at the moment is seeing 479 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:32,760 how many people have got a bunch of great lessons in the last few 480 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:36,680 years, but their lives are the same and they're going, I still 481 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:41,680 feel shit, maybe even a little bit shitter because I know what 482 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:43,440 I could be doing differently, but nothing's changed. 483 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:48,160 And so how do we actually integrate, properly integrate 484 00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:53,400 lived experience of difference through making different choices 485 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:55,480 and doing different things? Because something that I 486 00:28:55,480 --> 00:29:00,240 experienced through integrating an ayahuasca experience was how 487 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,600 uncomfortable doing things differently felt to begin with 488 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:05,560 and how easy it would have been to go back to doing things how I 489 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:10,640 did them before. And actually weeks of, oh God, 490 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:14,640 this, this doesn't feel normal. And I really went to a place of 491 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:17,520 like, what's wrong with me? Like I don't feel normal. 492 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,000 And then I had to just keep reminding myself, this is what 493 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,520 you wanted. You didn't want to stay the 494 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,080 same. You didn't want to be in that 495 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:27,080 place that you were before. So things have to feel different 496 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:29,720 and different is uncomfortable. And so just reminding myself of 497 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:34,960 that and going, I chose, I want to choose a different path and 498 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,280 that takes different action. Different action will feel 499 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:39,720 weird, but you just have to commit to it until it feels 500 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,400 normal, which takes us way back to the first part of the first 501 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,600 conversation. Conscious breathing, functional 502 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:46,600 breathing. It'll feel weird and intentional 503 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:48,440 to begin with until the point that it doesn't. 504 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:50,120 And I think that's the the big factor. 505 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:53,600 Yeah, I like that. I like different action as well 506 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,320 because there's a lot of, you know, take action, action, 507 00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:58,880 action, action, take action. But actually it's different 508 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:00,560 action. And you're right on 509 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:05,440 intellectualizing, you know, it's it's, you can have all the 510 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,880 insights in the world, but if you don't take a different form 511 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:12,400 of action afterwards, it's just the librarian of the mind just 512 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,880 fucking, it's all in there. But nothing's changed. 513 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,520 I was that for a very long time. I remember a podcast 514 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:23,040 conversation I had almost five years ago, I think, and the guy 515 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:26,360 I was interviewing, great guy said, you know, I like to look 516 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,120 at it as having a PhD in my own mind. 517 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:30,320 I'm like, I loved that at the time. 518 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:32,040 I was like, me too, That's what I'm doing. 519 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:33,360 I love it. I understand myself. 520 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,800 I know all this stuff. And if that's all you're doing, 521 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:41,160 and that's not to downplay that as a part of the process, but if 522 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:46,360 that's all you're doing, I don't know if that works. 523 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:48,560 I genuinely don't because I've seen it myself. 524 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:54,040 Like you just become a very self aware person and I without self 525 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:56,640 actualization, without integration, without doing 526 00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:00,520 anything differently. I'm not sure what that gives you 527 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:02,480 other than the ability to sit on a podcast and talk about 528 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:03,920 yourself. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 529 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:07,400 Well, it's, it's if we talk, we go back into the first episode. 530 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,920 We, we, we touched on like masculine and feminine energies. 531 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,120 self-awareness is very is a very feminine energy. 532 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,400 Being able to sit in your self-awareness fight is a good 533 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,320 thing. But if you sit in it for too 534 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,880 long, you're just sitting in it. There's no action. 535 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,680 You're just sitting in it and being aware of your awareness. 536 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:29,240 Great. But it's then it's like fucking 537 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:32,520 sweet, got the awareness. Now there's there's the insight. 538 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,240 Now let's go back into a more of a masculine before a guy, right? 539 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:38,600 A male masculine energy. What can I do now to take 540 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:40,200 action? How can I do some different 541 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,760 action right now? Yeah, and I think I very much 542 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,120 view, I used to talk about this as sort of healing 1.0, healing 543 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,200 2.0. So it's like 1.0 is a important 544 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,240 part of the process. You need to figure yourself out. 545 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:54,960 You need to understand yourself, otherwise the action is going to 546 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,840 be misguided. It's almost like that's the, you 547 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,560 create the user manual to then take action. 548 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:04,200 And that might take six months, a year, five years, 10 years. 549 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:08,240 But within that you're always iterating how you're acting and 550 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,240 actually building. You know, I've, I've changed 551 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:12,760 tact a lot over the last few years in terms of, you know, 552 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:15,480 some of my views on things. I'm very open to having my view 553 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:17,480 changed on based on my experience and based on 554 00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:21,000 conversation. But you're constantly refining 555 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,720 it and constantly refining it. And as, as you perfectly said, 556 00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,880 you know, if you're just sitting in it, you're not really doing 557 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,680 anything. And ultimately we're doing the 558 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:32,760 work on ourselves. Again, comes back to the first 559 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,440 conversation we had so that things can be different for 560 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,440 ourselves and people around us. And I think that's really 561 00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:42,600 important is, is to alchemise the work for a purpose, whether 562 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,640 that's your purpose or just a purpose. 563 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,240 Yeah, yeah, for sure. I like, I like, I really like 564 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:53,320 the word tolerate. So it's like do some breath 565 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:57,240 work, do some psychedelics, whatever, have the have the 566 00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:01,960 awareness, have the insights. Then like a super easy thing to 567 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:05,120 do is to look at your life and go, where am I tolerating the 568 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,040 things that go against the insight I've just had? 569 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:10,480 Like what am I tolerating in my life that just fucking goes 570 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,000 against that? Well, there's that in my 571 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:16,640 relationships, that in my work, that in my health. 572 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,120 Then just look at this fix. Just sort out. 573 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:20,480 Just go, I'll do the different thing. 574 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:24,000 Then do that life change. Absolutely. 575 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:28,240 And I think it's we often put ourselves in positions in our 576 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,960 lives that confirm the beliefs that we hold about ourselves. 577 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:38,240 So one for me was a still is I suppose I, I spend a lot of time 578 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:40,560 and, and this is something I view as a positive as well. 579 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,680 I spend a lot of time with people older and more successful 580 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:47,000 than me. Incredibly inspiring, drives me, 581 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,840 motivates me, keeps me absolutely stuck in the belief 582 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:53,800 that I'm not good enough because I'm surrounded by people older 583 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:58,120 than me and more, more quote UN quote, more successful than me. 584 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,320 And so there's light and dark to all of this. 585 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:03,280 But again, it's come back to that point of what you 586 00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:08,960 tolerating. What positions or situations 587 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:13,800 have you found yourself in that make you uncomfortable or that 588 00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:17,960 you don't like in your life? What belief is that confirming 589 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:21,760 about yourself? Because actually the beliefs, 590 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:23,719 you know, that belief that I'm not good enough is probably the 591 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:25,719 one that I've held onto. And I know for a lot of other 592 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:27,239 people for as long as I can remember. 593 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:32,320 And so to change that I'm going to feel different and different 594 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,800 is hard. It's easy to stay in that 595 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:36,639 belief. And so actually to start doing 596 00:34:36,639 --> 00:34:38,840 things differently, even if that different is going to make you 597 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:42,000 feel significantly better, can feel really challenging. 598 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,159 And so if you're in a position, you know, a job that you don't 599 00:34:45,159 --> 00:34:47,960 like, a relationship that you don't like, maybe asking that 600 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,880 question of like, what belief is this confirming? 601 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:54,679 Is it that, you know, I'm not worthy of love or that I will 602 00:34:54,679 --> 00:34:57,560 never be successful or I don't deserve something? 603 00:34:57,920 --> 00:34:59,800 And then go, do I want to believe that? 604 00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:02,320 How do I change that belief? And then also how do I change 605 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:03,600 that situation? Yeah. 606 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:07,600 Fucking beliefs. There's some thoughts going 607 00:35:07,720 --> 00:35:10,000 around your. Head actually those beliefs, man 608 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,000 they but that's the thing it's it's it's a belief. 609 00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:15,600 A belief is something that we've made-up. 610 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:21,520 It's it's it's a story What the The thing is like like my arm 611 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:23,520 right now. If I drop it and what's dropping 612 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:25,280 it? It's gravity that's dropping it. 613 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:27,720 Really it's like that's what's pushing it's that that's what's 614 00:35:27,720 --> 00:35:29,600 pushing us down. Gravity is science. 615 00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:30,760 It's real. It's there. 616 00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:33,440 A belief is not, it's something that we've made-up. 617 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:35,760 It's a story. For the most part, they're just 618 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,480 bullshit. But then for the most part, 619 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:40,680 because we've held those beliefs for so long, they are. 620 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:44,280 It's like it's the security in our insecurity. 621 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:48,240 So we we gain security by staying in that bullshit 622 00:35:48,240 --> 00:35:51,360 insecure belief. And it's and then it's on 623 00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:52,760 repeat. It's the patterns throughout our 624 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:53,680 lives. That's it. 625 00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,480 And I think, you know, I, I speak a lot about autonomy and 626 00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,880 agency in my work at the moment, which is, you know, I ended up 627 00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:02,560 in a place in my life that I was deeply miserable. 628 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:06,960 And I felt like I'd ended up there by accident because I just 629 00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:10,680 lived pretty unconsciously in a state of autopilot. 630 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:15,760 I was like, I've made choices, but how many of those were my 631 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:17,480 own? How many of them were really 632 00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:20,040 driven by what I truly wanted? Very, very few. 633 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:25,200 And once you kind of can shake yourself up to that fact of 634 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:30,640 like, I've ended up somewhere seemingly by accident and I 635 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:33,080 don't like it here, that's almost the starting point. 636 00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:35,880 You go, OK, well, now's the opportunity to do things 637 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,480 differently, but knowing within that that you're going to have 638 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,520 to make some choices that might feel uncomfortable because it's 639 00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:43,680 not familiar. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 640 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:50,680 And this is where for for men, it's important to to go. 641 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,840 I don't need to do this on my own, I don't think. 642 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:56,840 I've been trying on my own for fucking years and it's not 643 00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:01,320 working. Like find a men's group, find do 644 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:06,200 some a breathwork coach, find a great therapist, find a shaman, 645 00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:08,440 whatever that looks like to go right. 646 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,800 Am I going to am I going to do this, but not on my own. 647 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,920 Build the power team. It's like best teams in the 648 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:17,800 world or Navy Seals, best companies in the world, Amazon. 649 00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:19,920 They're all built by the the teams. 650 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:24,360 So it's having a superpower team yourself to help you figure this 651 00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:29,160 shit out and then gain the right actions to then change. 100% And 652 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:33,000 I think I guess speaking to that like finding the unfamiliar and 653 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:37,280 breaking out of the, the sort of security of the the insecurity 654 00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:43,080 is also and it's hard, it's easier said than done allowing 655 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:47,880 yourself to seek out unfamiliar forms of support. 656 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:52,160 So it might be the shaman, or it might be if you've always had a 657 00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:55,280 female therapist, it's a male therapist, or if you've always 658 00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:58,000 gone to men's groups, maybe it's a mixed experience, like 659 00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:01,280 actually going, even in doing the work, and this is where it 660 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:02,600 just gets fucking overcomplicated. 661 00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:06,840 But even in doing the work, where am I keeping myself stuck? 662 00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,680 Because I'm going to the familiar, I'm going, I'm going 663 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:13,160 to the comfortable and I'm just reaffirming the beliefs that are 664 00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:17,640 already there rather than going, how can I bust this wide open 665 00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:22,600 and actually get get some food for thought from a place that 666 00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:25,360 you might not expect it because that's where you're going to get 667 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:29,880 the, I think this the kind of snippets of, of real gold and 668 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:34,320 real change. Yeah, someone recently offered 669 00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:41,320 me to go and study and get trained in kundalini activation, 670 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:45,480 right. And I was like, do you know 671 00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,160 what? Not right now, but because I've 672 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:50,880 got my own things going on, it's just another thing on my plate 673 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:55,120 that I don't need. But at some stage next year I'll 674 00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:56,800 do that. Because for me it's so fucking 675 00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:58,280 left wing. It's so the other way. 676 00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:03,240 It's completely different to all my very, very masculine 677 00:39:03,240 --> 00:39:07,200 orientated science backed modalities that I've but I'm 678 00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:08,840 very well trained and and versed in. 679 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:12,240 And I'm like, yeah, do you know what that makes me feel 680 00:39:12,240 --> 00:39:15,120 uncomfortable doing this? Whatever the fuck that is, 681 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:16,880 right? And it's and it's very, very 682 00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:18,680 different. So I will do that. 683 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:20,720 Yeah, I think, I think that's it. 684 00:39:20,720 --> 00:39:24,600 It's, it's the curiosity piece and and knowing especially with 685 00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:28,520 modalities and and faith systems, I think both of these 686 00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:33,360 it probably speaks to is that they all come back to very 687 00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,600 similar places. So something like Kundalini's 688 00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:39,040 very much about getting into your body, about life force 689 00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:43,280 energy moving through your system, could say exactly the 690 00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:45,600 same for conscious connective breathing in a different form. 691 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:51,800 We're all, when you strip it right back, we're all speaking 692 00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:54,960 very much to similar things, whether it's modalities or phase 693 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,760 systems. Where do you see breath work 694 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:04,680 evolving, particularly for for conscious guys? 695 00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,520 It's a timely question because I, I'm in a position right now 696 00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:11,960 where I feel like it has to evolve. 697 00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:15,640 It's evolving for me in terms of how I operate the business, how 698 00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:19,720 I practice myself. And again, it's very, very 699 00:40:19,720 --> 00:40:21,280 similar. And this is where I think just 700 00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:24,000 the world is hilariously patent LED. 701 00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:27,080 It's similar to that healing one point O, healing 2 point O, we 702 00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,080 could almost say breath work, one point O, breath work 2 point 703 00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:32,320 O, one point O is let's package this up as a really nice neat 704 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:33,720 modality. Let's go. 705 00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:35,680 Here are your techniques, here are your tools, here your 706 00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:38,360 workshops, There you go. And people can get a lot from 707 00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:40,280 it, but it's really the commercialization and 708 00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:43,640 commodification of the thing. And that is a really quick way 709 00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:46,840 to suck the life out of it, to suck the philosophy out of it, 710 00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:48,960 to suck the, the, the gold out of it. 711 00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:53,040 Ultimately, 2.0 is about how do we, how do we shift beyond that? 712 00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:57,880 And, and for me, this is about the breath is a, a fundamental 713 00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:00,120 part of, of everything that we do. 714 00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:04,200 And how can we really turn it back in, in the Western world, 715 00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:07,200 at least back into an integrated life philosophy. 716 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:09,840 So people are just aware of their breath day-to-day. 717 00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:12,040 They know what tools they need to use, and then they're able to 718 00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:15,760 empower themselves to create change in their lives with 719 00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:19,320 breath as a part of that. So the three pillars that we 720 00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:21,720 mentioned in the first conversation of functional 721 00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,520 breathing, nervous system regulation and, and therapeutic 722 00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:27,440 breath work still apply. But the way that I'm now 723 00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:31,640 approaching it for breath work, 2 point O is breath work is a 724 00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:35,640 gateway to reclaim awareness, autonomy and purpose. 725 00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,120 So rather than speaking about the tool, we're speaking about 726 00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:41,840 the, the thing that it empowers you to, to gain access to. 727 00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:45,960 So to reclaim awareness, autonomy and purpose. 728 00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:49,000 And the breath can do all of those things for us. 729 00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:52,440 And so that for me is if I were prescribing something or drawing 730 00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:56,840 up a road map for people to to go and follow is explore 731 00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:58,680 breathwork. And perhaps you go breathwork 732 00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:01,800 one point O first as a way into that part of the journey. 733 00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:08,440 But also, rather than thinking about what, what breathwork tool 734 00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:11,000 do I want to use? It's going why am I seeking this 735 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:13,160 thing? What is my intention here? 736 00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:14,760 What am I trying to get from this? 737 00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:19,240 Am I struggling with awareness, balance, autonomy, agency, 738 00:42:19,240 --> 00:42:23,640 purpose, meaning, what is it? And then seek accordingly and 739 00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:26,000 apply accordingly. So I think it's it's more about 740 00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:31,400 that for me now of how do we create an integrated life 741 00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:35,120 philosophy that supports us not just in the moment of doing the 742 00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:36,680 practice, but just across the board. 743 00:42:38,720 --> 00:42:41,960 Yeah. I couldn't sync that with 744 00:42:42,720 --> 00:42:44,840 something that I say to guys because I think with with guys, 745 00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:46,840 particularly when I get into self development, personal 746 00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:50,320 development, it's all about how. Pete, just give me the fucking 747 00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:51,880 road map mate. Give me 3 steps. 748 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:54,680 How, what, what do I need to do and how. 749 00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:58,560 And that is very much the 1.0. It's the, it's the in the breath 750 00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:00,840 work, it's the workshop, it's the, it's the trainings, it's 751 00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:04,760 the, it's the how. But the 2.0 and the same as self 752 00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:06,680 development, it's not about the how, it's about The Who. 753 00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:10,080 It's never about the how. It's always about The Who you 754 00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:12,040 are, who you are being, who you are becoming. 755 00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:14,480 That's like the 2.0 there. Yeah, and it's it. 756 00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:17,400 You know, how implies that there's a solution. 757 00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:19,200 It implies that there's an end goal. 758 00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:22,520 And I think the The Who is the that's the journey. 759 00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:25,160 Who is the journey, The Who is the acceptance, The Who is the 760 00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:30,760 the seeking without a desire to to find something other than to 761 00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:33,360 continue the journey. I even see it. 762 00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:35,680 It's something I've been talking quite a lot about recently as 763 00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:38,480 well with non fiction and fiction. 764 00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:41,560 You know, I pretty much solely read nonfiction for the last 765 00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:45,400 five years, learned lots, understood lots, gained lots of 766 00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:50,680 knowledge and and awareness. Now almost exclusively reading 767 00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:54,520 fiction, interesting fiction of like philosophy and mystery and 768 00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:59,360 and stuff that is still, you know, fascinating to me, but 769 00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,280 very much viewing that as reading nonfiction is 770 00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:04,960 information gathering. That is the how and then fiction 771 00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:07,800 is going. How am I choosing to interpret 772 00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:10,640 this story through the lens of who I am? 773 00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:13,080 And it's empowering The Who. Like what am I choosing to take 774 00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:15,360 away from this story? What is it making me feel? 775 00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:20,080 How is it making me think? And it's much more of a personal 776 00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:24,800 interpretation and integration of a story rather than give me 777 00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:27,240 some knowledge and I'll remember it and then I'll might spit it 778 00:44:27,240 --> 00:44:30,160 back out at some point. So I think that's something that 779 00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:33,440 that we're seeing across the board is this 1.02 point zero 780 00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:38,720 shift in so many different aspects of of development. 781 00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:42,640 Yeah, Yeah, absolutely right, Jamie. 782 00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:45,760 Let's wrap it up, mate. Good to see you on the mic. 783 00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:46,840 Yeah, good to see the. Mic. 784 00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:49,520 Same. Thank you for tuning in and 785 00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:51,640 we'll be back next week with another one. 786 00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:52,480 Cheers guys.