1 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:10,200 Why nice guys don't get paid or laid with Doctor Robert Glover. 2 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:16,000 Join me and my Co host Ben as we do the insights version. 3 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:17,600 This is the new version of the podcast. 4 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:21,320 So what's going to happen is this the original version that 5 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:25,480 we did with Glover two years ago is going to play the episode is 6 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:30,880 gold timeless insights that he reveals in that straight after 7 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:34,120 that, it's going to go into mine and Ben's insights that we've 8 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:37,680 picked up over the last two years from coaching hundreds of 9 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:41,480 men, but also just both of our personal growth journeys through 10 00:00:41,480 --> 00:00:43,760 going through nice guy syndromes. 11 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:47,960 Enjoy the episode. And if you want to ask us a 12 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:50,640 question, there's now a link below. 13 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:54,160 You can click it in Spotify and Apple ask us a question and 14 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:56,320 we'll answer it on the next episode. 15 00:00:56,400 --> 00:01:02,200 Cheers guys. Welcome to the Awaken Man 16 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:04,160 podcast. Honestly, this is going to be an 17 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:07,800 amazing one. I am so excited and honoured to 18 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:13,560 be joined by Peter Taylor today. I. 19 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:15,440 Love it how? Many times. 20 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:17,240 How many times have you pulled that on him? 21 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:20,480 I. Wasn't expecting that I really. 22 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:22,760 Want to check? I'm honest by I'm always 23 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:25,640 honoured to be joined by Pete, but honestly, the only person 24 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:29,040 that could match the the might of Mr. Taylor is Doctor Robert 25 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:31,080 Glover. Robert, it is an absolute 26 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:32,400 pleasure to have you on this podcast. 27 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:35,920 It means a lot to both Pete and I and the man that listening to 28 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:38,560 the Awake Man podcast. I'm just going to before we 29 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:41,240 start the conversation, I just want to introduce Robert to 30 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:42,440 those of you who don't know who he is. 31 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:44,400 I don't know how you know if you're in men's work. 32 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:46,840 It's like not knowing who Alex Ferguson is if you watch 33 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:48,800 football. Who's he? 34 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:55,720 Yeah. Yeah, so I, I started my men's 35 00:01:55,720 --> 00:02:00,200 journey and when I was turning like 2930 and yeah, Robert's 36 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:03,440 book was the first book that was given to me and it helped me 37 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:06,160 exponentially. It was just, I, I was reading it 38 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:08,360 thinking like this guy just knows me so well. 39 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:09,919 And it was about being a nice guy. 40 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:13,320 And it's almost like I felt it was the book that every guy 41 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:17,040 should get when he turned 30 who have has got that equation that 42 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:19,360 being a nice guy somehow makes their life better. 43 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:23,400 And it was one of the, I would say the cornerstone pieces of 44 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:26,840 information I received that helped me massively change my 45 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:30,880 life from the age of 30, rectifying my relationships and 46 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:33,920 me and business and and Robert, you know, just like, thank you 47 00:02:33,920 --> 00:02:36,880 so much for writing that. And it's absolute pleasure to 48 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:37,720 write. You know, have you on the 49 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:40,640 podcast today? Thank you for the invitation and 50 00:02:40,640 --> 00:02:43,160 thank you for that, that introduction. 51 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:47,560 You know, it's interesting. When I began men's work in my 52 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:51,560 early mid 30s, like you, about all there was was Iron John, 53 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:54,600 which that was good. But the, you know, the we had 54 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:57,360 the mythopoietic movement and we could go out in the woods and 55 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:00,640 hold the talking stick and say ho and beat a drum, which was 56 00:03:00,640 --> 00:03:02,520 all good. I mean, I did that, but there 57 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:05,440 wasn't wasn't much else out there, or at least not that I 58 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:07,920 could find. And so I'm just so excited, you 59 00:03:07,920 --> 00:03:12,240 know, now here we are in 2022 that there's programs like 60 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:16,400 yours, Awakened Man, just so many, many great men's coaches, 61 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:19,560 men's programs, men's books. I mean, it's just gratifying 62 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:23,240 over the last 30 years just to see, you know, the, the, the 63 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:25,560 revolution that's occurring in men's work. 64 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:27,920 So it excites me. Thank you for the invitation to 65 00:03:27,920 --> 00:03:31,240 be on your show again. Yeah, it's that's the revolution 66 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:33,680 of men's work. Because I have to admit myself 67 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:37,560 right up until I'd say actually 18 months ago when the Awaken 68 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:41,440 Man programme started, men's work was, was wasn't even a word 69 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:45,200 in my, it was, I'd never used that word before ever, you know. 70 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:47,400 And if I was to think of what men's work would be, I would 71 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:51,600 think about load of guys out in the woods bashing their drums 72 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:56,480 and doing a bit of yoga That that would be, that was what my 73 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:58,440 perception of that's what it was. 74 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:02,200 Right. So actually for me completely 75 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:05,200 new term. Pete just said about how he'd 76 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:08,960 never even been introduced to men's work as a, you know, as a 77 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:10,760 guy. And then all of a sudden he got 78 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:12,920 involved in the maker man. And also he's hearing this word 79 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:16,120 men's work. And I think that I so really to, 80 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:19,040 I think to begin the conversation, I think so many 81 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:21,000 men don't know what men's work is. 82 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:24,200 And it's almost like they go through this struggle of 83 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:27,360 masculinity problems in their relationships, all sorts of 84 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:29,120 things. And then then, but one of the 85 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:31,760 reasons I wanted to start the Awake Man project because when I 86 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:33,880 was going through those struggles and stresses, I didn't 87 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:35,920 know where to turn. I didn't want therapy. 88 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:38,800 I didn't I didn't know where to go to get help, but I didn't 89 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:41,600 feel broken. So what's your experience with 90 00:04:41,840 --> 00:04:44,920 obviously, because you've seen so many men probably turn and go 91 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:46,760 to men's work. What was your experience of 92 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:48,120 that? Well, I'll tell you my 93 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:51,800 experience and then, then I'll, I'll give you my, my current day 94 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:57,360 definition of men's work. So backing up for me where I was 95 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:00,640 at, I, I came into, well, my profession was I, I came to 96 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,680 ministry early on. And then through marriage and 97 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:07,040 family therapy, I, I, I got a PhD in marriage and family 98 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:10,800 therapy at 29, so pretty young. That's where my education went. 99 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:15,000 I'm still working as a minister and then made that transition 100 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:17,680 to, to marriage therapy. Now, one thing that I've found 101 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:21,600 is that most of the men's programs that I bump into don't 102 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:23,920 come from, quote, a therapy background. 103 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:27,200 They, they come, you know, from yogic background, coaching 104 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:29,960 background, consciousness background, lots of other things 105 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:33,280 contributing. So I'd, I'd already, you know, 106 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:35,960 I've been a minister for a number of years, previous 107 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:39,040 lifetime was already working as a marriage and family therapist. 108 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:41,560 And then I was in my second marriage. 109 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:45,120 And you know, as a nice guy, if you'd met me 35 years ago, I 110 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:46,320 would have told you that I'm a nice guy. 111 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:47,800 I'm one of the nice guys you'll ever meet. 112 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:50,680 And I thought, why doesn't everybody live by that mantra of 113 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:53,160 trying to be considerate of other people and generous and 114 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:56,120 kind and conflict avoidant, you know, all that kind of stuff. 115 00:05:56,400 --> 00:06:00,000 And about two years into my second marriage, my my second 116 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:02,600 wife said, you know, everybody thinks you're such a nice guy, 117 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:04,320 but you're not. You know, you can be really 118 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:06,400 hurtful. I'd rather be married to a jerk. 119 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:08,960 At least I know a jerk's going to be mean to me all the time. 120 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:12,680 You're nice and then you're not. And she said you need help. 121 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,200 And she said, you know, if you don't go get help, I'm leaving. 122 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:18,040 And I didn't want to lose her. So I went and got help. 123 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:19,840 And I thought, I don't know why I'm getting help. 124 00:06:19,840 --> 00:06:23,080 She's the one who's unhappy all the time, Moody, never in a good 125 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:25,600 mood, never wants to have sex anymore, angry. 126 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:29,080 I'm going to get help. And I landed in a 12 step group 127 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:31,160 for sex addicts because she said you're a sex addict. 128 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:33,600 I wanted to have wife sex with my wife. 129 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:34,920 I guess that makes me a sex addict. 130 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:38,080 Got there, found out I wasn't having enough sex to be a sex 131 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:42,560 addict. How much sex do you have to have 132 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:44,000 to be a sex addict? I've never is there. 133 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:46,120 A kind of thought about this before. 134 00:06:46,280 --> 00:06:47,800 You know you. Go let me Google this. 135 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:51,880 I, I, I, I don't think there's like a chart or a meter, but I, 136 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:56,360 I knew I wasn't having any sex. My on our honeymoon, my wife had 137 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:58,640 announced, Aren't you glad now that we're married, we don't 138 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:02,320 have to pretend to like sex? I go, I wasn't pretending, you 139 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:06,240 know, So that's how it went from our honeymoon on. 140 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:09,600 So we're about two years in. And so I went to the sex 12 step 141 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:11,680 group for sex addicts and it was great. 142 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:15,760 Again, I found out I wasn't a sex addict, but this is a, it 143 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:18,520 was a men's group. It was all guys and, and, and 144 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:21,640 these guys were hardcore. I mean, they were sex addicts. 145 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:24,680 They, they, they were doing shit that, you know, some were in 146 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:26,800 trouble with the law, some were in trouble with the courts. 147 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:29,000 So, you know, they were all in trouble one way or another. 148 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:32,360 And for the first time in my life, I had a place where I just 149 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:35,920 began to be me and reveal me. I grew up in fundamental 150 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:39,320 Christian Church, grew up with a critical father, grew up during 151 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:41,800 angry feminism of the 60s and 70s. 152 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:45,000 You know, I kept everything about me under wraps. 153 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:48,760 And so I'd go to these meetings. I go, what do I want to talk 154 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:51,480 about today that I've never told anybody or that I don't really 155 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:54,880 want to share, but I'm going to. And, you know, it was liberating 156 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:58,640 to just go and reveal me. And the only reaction ever got 157 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:00,920 was, thank you for sharing, Robert, you know, and it was 158 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:03,280 great. About this time, I got in 159 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:06,200 working with a therapist. And very first session I had 160 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:08,320 with this therapist, she taught me about boundaries. 161 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:12,320 I was in my 30s, second marriage, PhD, never heard of 162 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:14,080 boundaries. I didn't know what they were. 163 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:17,840 I'm like, wow, I didn't know you could say no or stop. 164 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:19,200 I'm going to get off the phone now. 165 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:20,600 Or if you do that again, we're done. 166 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:22,680 I didn't know you could do that, right? 167 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:24,760 And then so I continued in therapy. 168 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:27,800 A colleague of mine told me about a men's group he was in 169 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:30,640 led by a female therapist around sexual shame. 170 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:33,440 This woman had written several books around sexual shame. 171 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:37,080 And that was where just the bulk of my Nice Guy recovery took 172 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:41,720 place, was in that men's group. And by the way, shame is such a 173 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:43,720 powerful place to do our deepest work. 174 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:47,000 Sex and shame. You know, David Data talks about 175 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:52,840 going through sex. David Snarch, Osho Freud, you 176 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:57,480 know, sex is just a portal to doing our deepest work. 177 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:01,600 Jung would say the same thing. So that was so powerful to start 178 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:05,560 doing, you know, going into my deep work, you know, just by 179 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:07,840 starting with where my sexual shame was. 180 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:09,440 And I, I had a bunch. Most people do. 181 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:13,840 So I noticed him in in my therapy work as a therapist. 182 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:15,840 Guys were coming to me, couples were coming to me. 183 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:17,840 And so many of the men were saying, I'm a nice guy. 184 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:19,560 I'm one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet. 185 00:09:19,560 --> 00:09:21,680 I treat her well. I treat her better than her ex. 186 00:09:21,680 --> 00:09:24,320 I'm raising her kids. I give her everything she wants. 187 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:26,720 I try to make her happy. I bought her a Ford Explorer. 188 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:28,800 It didn't have leather seats. It's never good enough. 189 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:31,480 When's it going to be my turn? And why doesn't she ever want to 190 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:33,280 have sex anymore? And I thought, you know, these 191 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:34,920 guys are, I can finish their sentences. 192 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:38,240 They're just like me. So I, I started my first No more 193 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:41,440 Mr. Nice Guy men's group over 25 years ago, met every other 194 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:43,840 Wednesday. I just started writing some 195 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:46,640 stuff to just kind of give them. When we met, I didn't really 196 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:48,400 have an agenda. I was just writing what I was 197 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:50,760 discovering. And over time, these guys and 198 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:53,000 usually their wives were saying, Robert, you should write a book, 199 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:55,360 you should go on Oprah. This could be a best seller. 200 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:57,000 There's a lot of men out there that need this. 201 00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:59,680 So over a period of about six or seven years, I kept writing and 202 00:09:59,920 --> 00:10:02,960 took about three years to get it published, which was interesting 203 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:05,840 because my agent shopped it to a lot of big publishers. 204 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:08,360 And, and I talked to a lot of editors and they said, Robert, 205 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:10,640 we like your book. It's well written, It's a good 206 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:13,040 book. But here's the but every one of 207 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:15,880 them said the same thing. Our marketing department says 208 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:17,600 men will not buy a self help book. 209 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:20,760 I said, you don't know the guys that that I'm I'm talking to. 210 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:24,960 Well, so finally I, I hustled, got a bunch of media exposure, 211 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:28,560 finally got a book contract. And when the book came out in 212 00:10:28,560 --> 00:10:32,680 print 2003, my publisher sent me on a book tour around the US and 213 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:36,240 did a lot of TV interviews, newspaper interviews, radio 214 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:38,240 interviews. And the thing that guys or the 215 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:42,000 interviewers would most ask me is, Robert, do you see a 216 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:47,440 worldwide men's movement coming? And I said, no, really, for a 217 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,040 couple of reasons. One is I didn't think there was 218 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:54,200 one unifying 'cause that would bring men together. 219 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:57,040 And I said, I usually didn't say the second part. 220 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:00,840 Second part was is I think feminism succeeded to the degree 221 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:05,080 that it did because of men, whether it be governors, state 222 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:09,320 legislatures, university presidents said, oh, you know, 223 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:13,040 we we do need women do need equal pay for equal job and 224 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:14,680 equal treatment and equal opportunity. 225 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:18,120 So I think men were were the reason that that first wave, 226 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:21,720 second wave feminism succeeded. I didn't think women would get 227 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:24,960 on board with a men's movement. In fact, I just read an article 228 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:28,720 last night in a women's feminist thing attacking Jordan Peterson 229 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:33,120 is just like this evil creature. And I'm thinking no, when when 230 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:37,120 women, when the the the feminism is not going to help a men's 231 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:38,560 movement anything around empowerment. 232 00:11:38,560 --> 00:11:42,080 Like, I read another article, a book review of, of the Proud 233 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:47,800 Boys written by a feminist guy in the New York Times and, and 234 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:50,320 basically talking about the Proud Boys. 235 00:11:50,560 --> 00:11:52,720 He's, and I've seen other articles about this. 236 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:56,400 They, they, they start, they want to weave it into all men's 237 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:58,400 work. Like all men's work is coming 238 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:02,680 out of this nefarious thing of, of, you know, men, you know, 239 00:12:02,680 --> 00:12:05,400 being disempowered and they're going to claim their power back. 240 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:08,760 And, and so I, I was right about that part. 241 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:12,040 Probably the women's movement was not going to help a men's 242 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:14,480 movement. But what I didn't, what I didn't 243 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:19,880 get right is that men need something there, whether they 244 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:22,440 know it or not, they're looking for something. 245 00:12:22,680 --> 00:12:25,200 And and like you, you were saying Ben, you didn't know 246 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:27,080 where to look. I didn't either. 247 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:30,040 Like I said, I ended up in a 12 step group for sex addicts. 248 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:33,280 So we're looking for something. We don't know necessarily where 249 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:35,680 to look. But luckily now with the 250 00:12:35,680 --> 00:12:39,360 Internet, with the breadth of information and resources, men 251 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:42,960 go looking now they end up in men's work. 252 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:46,200 And really what I think they're looking for is tribe and 253 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:48,480 initiation. And they find it in many ways. 254 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:50,480 And maybe, maybe it's through a 12 step group. 255 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:52,840 They get sober and they go find a group and they start 256 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:55,280 gravitating towards the, the groups that are all men. 257 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:58,960 Maybe it's, they go, you know, join a Dojo and, and they, they, 258 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:01,360 they learn martial arts or Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. 259 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:03,720 Maybe it's a divorce group through their church when 260 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:05,080 they're going through a difficult time. 261 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:07,840 Maybe it's a, a pickup boot camp. 262 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:11,520 Maybe it's more of the consciousness yogic version of 263 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:13,920 men's work, more of the David data lineage. 264 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:17,440 Maybe it's even kind of radical, you know, nationalism. 265 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:19,760 So men are looking for something. 266 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:23,200 We need men, we need connection, we need direction. 267 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:26,920 And again, we need that, that masculine initiation that 268 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:30,840 teaches us how to deal with a difficult world, the scary 269 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:33,200 world, the painful world of the masculine. 270 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:36,720 Most of us have never had that. Most of us, I call it we're, 271 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:40,480 we're hanging out in the nursery of instant gratification, no 272 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:43,320 real challenge. And, you know, kind of being 273 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:45,960 mama's boys, hanging out trying to get the approval of women. 274 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:48,600 And that's not going to take us where we want to go. 275 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:52,920 So that's kind of my picture and I'm excited about this, that 276 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:56,720 whether you know, a guy does, you know, go, go join a, a, a 277 00:13:56,720 --> 00:14:00,920 Brazilian Jiu Jitsu group, goes to a pickup boot camp, you know, 278 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:04,160 goes through a consciousness, you know, trek, journey out in 279 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:07,160 the wilderness. However we do it, the good news 280 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:10,640 is there's so much information out there, so many good books, 281 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:13,800 so many good coaches. Sooner or later, once a guy 282 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:17,440 starts moving in that direction, he seems to keep finding better 283 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:19,720 and better tools to help him in that journey. 284 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:24,560 You know people like you guys. Yeah, actually Pete nailed this 285 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:27,560 when we were because we we actually, we spent a year as a 286 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:29,680 small group. Like Pete wasn't on board 287 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:32,120 actually, he was still running his old business. 288 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:35,000 And like, we just made some office to guys to connect on the 289 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:36,400 Internet. And we were like, OK, we can 290 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:38,000 have a group, men's group. We set it up. 291 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:39,400 And then we were like trying to work out. 292 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:41,560 These guys were getting great results in their life. 293 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:44,440 They were making money, they were having more sex, they were 294 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:47,440 having better relationships. And and I was like, well, what 295 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:48,680 do we actually do with these guys? 296 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:51,320 Like, you know, what is it fundamentally which we do and. 297 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:53,560 It was Pete that was. Looking for the answer and he 298 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:55,600 found it like the word self actualization. 299 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:59,720 And I think the what what I'm seeing and experience in every 300 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:03,360 day as I'm facilitating in the group is guys that the only real 301 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:06,720 way to self actualize is in a group, but you can't do it in a 302 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,000 vacuum on your own. Like, and that's what I'm just 303 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,280 seeing every single day is like guys come in together and like 304 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:15,920 even this morning a guy shared about shouting his kids and his 305 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:19,600 kid and all of the men jumped in and supported him, challenged 306 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:24,000 him and like that guys getting 15 reference points to deal with 307 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:26,400 his current situation, which he wouldn't have on his own. 308 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:29,600 And that is for me, you know, I'm still everyday like pinch 309 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:31,480 myself. Oh my gosh, I'm part of this 310 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:34,560 group of men. I still pinch myself every day 311 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:36,680 too thinking Oh my gosh I'm part of this. 312 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:39,160 Yeah. You know, and, and I agree with 313 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:43,000 you, you know, I say in no more Mr. Nice Guy early on and, and 314 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,720 often, and I say it in every interview when guys say, when 315 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:48,320 interviewers say, well, what do you recommend for men? 316 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:50,840 You know, say blah, blah, blah. I go number one, don't do this 317 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:52,600 alone. You didn't become a nice guy in 318 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:54,840 social isolation. You're not going to recover in 319 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:57,880 social isolation. Nowadays, most men want to do it 320 00:15:57,880 --> 00:15:59,560 alone. You know, isolate. 321 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:01,880 They never, never want to ask for help. 322 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:06,040 Is, is, is It's challenging for us men because it's like when, 323 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:08,400 you know, when I messed up what, what I noticed I'm on a 324 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:10,800 different computer than normal for this call because I was 325 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:13,040 already told you guys, my other computer, the keyboard didn't 326 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:15,200 work. And I noticed that, Oh, I was on 327 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:18,520 a really I've, I've got 4 Internet modems in my house. 328 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:20,440 That's how important Internet is to me. 329 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:22,720 And I noticed I was on one of the slower ones. 330 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:25,920 So I thought I'm, I'm just going to change to the faster Internet 331 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:28,200 for the computer and it cut me off the call. 332 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:31,120 Well, you know, I had this first impulse to, you know, oh, like, 333 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,000 oh, I didn't do anything. That's why I got back on and 334 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:36,800 said that was my fault. I would not have done something 335 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:38,040 I wouldn't have said 30 years ago. 336 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:40,040 That's my fault. I would have like, you know, I 337 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:42,320 don't know what happened, you know, technology, blah, blah, 338 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:44,640 blah. And and that's it. 339 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:47,720 We, we don't, we, we don't like that that bright light on us. 340 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:51,480 It feels like if, if, if, if we have a, if we make a mistake, if 341 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:54,360 we have flaw, if we yell at our kids, if we mess up the Internet 342 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:57,360 thing during an interview. Oh, no, you know, I'm terrible, 343 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,800 I'm bad, I'm gonna get rejected. But but the, the, the opposite 344 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:02,760 is true. Like I said when I went to that 345 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:05,760 12 step group and I'm sharing stuff that I'd never told 346 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:08,359 anybody and they're just going, you know, thanks for sharing. 347 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:12,480 And when I start doing my work through men's groups and I, I 348 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:15,800 tell men, get in a group, get in a group, get in a group. 349 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:19,680 And you know, I did the majority of my nice guy early recovery 350 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:21,560 work, wrote the book while I was in a men's group. 351 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:25,040 Six years ago. I got married again and I'm in 352 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:28,480 New Mexico. I'm kind of isolated culturally. 353 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:31,920 I'm not fluent in Spanish, even though I speak Spanish all to my 354 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:34,480 wife. I felt isolated and I was 355 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:36,480 leading a men's workshop and I just made the reference. 356 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:38,960 I got to find a men's group and one of the guys in the workshop 357 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:40,920 said, oh, I'm in this really great program. 358 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:44,840 You know, it's led by devotee of David Data and I go, I'm in. 359 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:47,800 And so I've been in that program for five years now. 360 00:17:48,120 --> 00:17:52,080 And it too has, I believe, helped my marriage survive. 361 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:56,360 I've, you know, economically, financially, I've taken off in 362 00:17:56,360 --> 00:17:59,280 the last five years. Everything in my life has gotten 363 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:02,840 better in the last five years because I'm in a group now. 364 00:18:03,360 --> 00:18:05,280 As I said, I'm a therapist. That's my training. 365 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:08,880 So, you know, my training is you sit with somebody one-on-one and 366 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,240 listen to their stories for, you know, 50 minutes. 367 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:15,000 And then, you know, you go, OK, And I tell you what, you get two 368 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:18,160 men in a room just sitting, you know, talking 1 to one. 369 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:21,320 We're going to spend most of the time in our heads just talking 370 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:24,360 about the idea of things, you know, concepts. 371 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:27,920 But you put a man in a group with seven other guys with good 372 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:30,720 leadership, and all of a sudden it gets real. 373 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:34,480 Our behaviors show up, our patterns show up, our defense 374 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:38,360 mechanisms show up our, our social inadequacies show up, our 375 00:18:38,360 --> 00:18:41,040 inability to to resolve things show up. 376 00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:43,920 Everything shows up and it can be worked on. 377 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:47,400 And so I get, I, I, I love that you guys, you know, promote 378 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:52,000 doing this work with other men, whether is doing our, our deep 379 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:55,040 work of cleaning out our stuff from our past, doing our shadow 380 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:58,960 work or sexual shame, or whether it's more of a coaching approach 381 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:01,280 of where am I stuck? What do I need to do to move 382 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:03,080 forward? How do I need to build 383 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:04,360 resources? How do I need to build 384 00:19:04,360 --> 00:19:06,480 accountability? How do I need to stop the things 385 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:08,960 that aren't serving me well? It doesn't matter what approach 386 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:11,800 we're taking. Doing that in a group is just so 387 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:13,920 much more powerful than any other way we're going to do it. 388 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:19,080 Yeah, I think that using like the awake amount we use men's 389 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:22,920 work as a vehicle to to actually improve business. 390 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:26,920 And you know what we have like work energy, you know, family, 391 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:30,960 you know, work energy and love and watching the guys do the 392 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:33,160 men's work and then in the reporting back about their 393 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:36,360 businesses flourishing. And we've not, and we, we do one 394 00:19:36,360 --> 00:19:39,680 business call a week and it's an amazing call evens it. 395 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:43,120 And we can't cover all of the stuff that needs to the the know 396 00:19:43,120 --> 00:19:44,600 how stuff. We don't teach them loads. 397 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:46,440 We just get them to leverage what they already know. 398 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:50,160 And and we there's a particular resonance with the king, like, 399 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:53,920 you know, Rob Boothroyd or the, the, the, the Robert Moore book 400 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:57,280 king, warrior, magician lover. It's like when guys operate like 401 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:00,000 kings in their own life and they celebrate one another. 402 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:03,600 And they be celebrated and they, they show up like kings all of a 403 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:05,600 sudden. They just like, it's like, you 404 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,400 know, from the, the books, like they sit in their own throne and 405 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:10,680 they start behaving like a king in their own life instead of 406 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,680 someone who's a bystander in their own life. 407 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:17,320 And this effects them so positively across all of their 408 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:19,120 arenas. It's, it is amazing. 409 00:20:19,120 --> 00:20:21,120 So what? I truly, to my core, believe 410 00:20:21,120 --> 00:20:25,400 that men's work is one of the best, the best ways to help 411 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,760 manic selling business. I'll Amen that I wrote a class 412 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:32,760 an online class 20 years years ago and it is it was actually a 413 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:36,800 commissioned by my publisher to support No more Mr. Nice Guy. 414 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:39,320 When it came out, they wanted me to write a book, teach it at an 415 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:41,440 online university. It was Barnes and Noble 416 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:44,240 University and Barnes and Noble. I don't know if they even sell 417 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:46,800 books anymore. I think they filed bankruptcy 418 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:49,920 not long ago, but so they had me write this course and and I 419 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:52,520 wrote a course and they wanted it based on No More Mr. Nice Guy 420 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:55,680 in the course I wrote is 8 lessons and it's nice guys don't 421 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:57,840 finish last. They rot in middle management, 422 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:00,040 the basic premises. Nice guys are good at being 423 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:03,080 good, but not great at being great for for many reasons. 424 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:05,440 And I go over those various ones in the course, whether it's our 425 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:08,560 codependency, getting caught, caught up in toxic fused 426 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:12,840 relationships, not risking underselling, undervaluing 427 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:17,080 ourselves, fear, anxiety, I mean all the stuff that goes into it. 428 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:20,800 And so I, I wrote that course 20 years ago and I've been teaching 429 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:22,680 it online every since. And since then I've, I've 430 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:25,840 written a half dozen other courses that I teach online. 431 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:29,360 Well, in the last year, I just redid all my courses and put 432 00:21:29,360 --> 00:21:32,680 them in a video format where I, I learned to, to shoot video 433 00:21:33,120 --> 00:21:36,520 and, and that was kind of like a microcosm of what I teach. 434 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,440 I started out not having really a clue of how to do it. 435 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:43,280 So I'm just, you know, recording on my computer Cam reading, you 436 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:47,160 know, the outline script on my computer and talking into a blue 437 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:49,080 whatever mic. And it was good. 438 00:21:49,120 --> 00:21:52,360 I mean, for the first class that I did, by the time I got to the 439 00:21:52,360 --> 00:21:55,200 4th class, which is the nice guys don't finish last, I 440 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,640 brought in middle management. By then I have a teleprompter 441 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:02,400 now lighting 2 mics with two different recording sources, 2 442 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,560 digital cameras, one in here, one over here to the side, 443 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:09,440 writing good scripts, reading them off teleprompter shooting 444 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:12,280 with two cameras, writing production notes from my 445 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:16,240 assistant for B roll for graphics for lower thirds, him 446 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:19,560 producing them beautifully. Me review and, and all of a 447 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:23,840 sudden I, I went from not having a clue how to do a teleprompter, 448 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:27,880 use a scrolling iPad. But, and, and all that scared 449 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:29,440 me. And you know, I didn't know 450 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:31,080 what. And so I just watched hours of 451 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:33,840 YouTube videos of how to pick the right camera, how to use the 452 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:36,680 teleprompter, how to, how to create a compelling videos. 453 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:39,840 And I, and I just leaned into facing that fear. 454 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:44,120 And so even just learning to create those videos was such a 455 00:22:44,120 --> 00:22:46,840 big challenge for me. You know, I'm 66 years old. 456 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:49,280 A lot of guys are like either retired or thinking about 457 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:51,880 retiring. I'm thinking about, I want to 458 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:53,560 learn a new challenge. I want to master. 459 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:58,000 I want to be the king of that. So after I finished converting 460 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,000 this course, nice guys don't finish last, I stumbled onto an 461 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:05,280 event in an e-mail that I got a few months back about a video 462 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,800 series on Alzheimer's. And they did this thing where 463 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:12,760 you, you sign up and you come watch it 12 that 12 videos and, 464 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:14,760 and I signed up, it was free. You watch them all. 465 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,200 They, you know, offered that you could buy them really high 466 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,120 quality stuff, you know, well done. 467 00:23:19,120 --> 00:23:20,880 And I thought, I want to do something. 468 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:24,120 I want to do an event like that. So I, I did this just last week 469 00:23:24,120 --> 00:23:26,360 with this course. I, it wrapped up yesterday. 470 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,760 Yesterday was the 8th day of of eight videos had over 1100 471 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,160 people sign up for it. I, I, you know, I, I, I 472 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,200 experimented with affiliate marketing, you know, I had my, 473 00:23:35,360 --> 00:23:38,200 my assistant created all kinds of great stuff to go with it, 474 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:41,840 great technology for capturing. And you know, the people, the 475 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,640 emails I've been getting from people just about how even just 476 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:48,640 having to watch a Class A day in 24 hours until the next one 477 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,400 drops and you're having to, you know, it's like a firehose. 478 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:55,280 But the just the response I'm getting unsolicited is Robert, 479 00:23:55,360 --> 00:23:57,840 this information is great. It's challenging me. 480 00:23:58,000 --> 00:23:59,480 I'm getting out of my comfort zone. 481 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:03,080 I'm having to So I thought, well, I think I'll launch like a 482 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:07,920 60 day, eight week, 60 day challenge to where these guys 483 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,760 are going to come meet in small groups and these guys are paying 484 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:14,080 me a grand to sign up to do this thing with me and it's 485 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:15,880 challenging me. It's out of my comfort zone. 486 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:20,440 So I think this kind of thing is contagious when you get men in a 487 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:23,600 contact for someone else takes a risk, someone else gets out of 488 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,320 their comfort zone, somebody else tries a new technology, 489 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:30,240 somebody else, you know, really dives into their side hustle and 490 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,640 you see other guys do it and you go, if he can do it, I can do 491 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:35,520 it. One of my mantras is what one 492 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:39,000 man can do, another man can do. I stole that from a cheesy movie 493 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,480 called The Edge. But but I I love that mantra. 494 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:43,600 What one man can do, another man can do. 495 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:47,520 So yes, you put men in groups, let them watch somebody else 496 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:50,040 challenge themselves. Not not necessarily even have, 497 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,800 you know, huge successes. That's that helps, but just the 498 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:58,440 act of doing what scares them encourages other men to step up. 499 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,360 And especially if you're encouraging mastery, you know, 500 00:25:01,360 --> 00:25:03,800 saying that, listen, if you're going to do this, do it right. 501 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,400 Bring your a game. You know, don't don't just play 502 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,360 around with it. Like I said, when I was creating 503 00:25:08,360 --> 00:25:11,800 these videos, I, I went from not knowing what I was doing to, you 504 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:15,640 know, getting a lot of feedback from graphic, you know, people 505 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:17,680 that create videos that Robert, this is good, this is high 506 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,640 quality. And it's because I decided if 507 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,400 I'm going to do it, I'm going to get masterful at it. 508 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:27,040 When you were talking, now I'm thinking it's got better set up 509 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:29,400 in the house. Not all of us and you're going I 510 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:30,920 can do that. We can do that. 511 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,000 See, that's the thing when men got get like that, I could do 512 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:35,280 something like that. I I. 513 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:36,960 Got two cameras, hey? Yeah. 514 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:39,880 But one of my mantras is, you know, steal from the best and 515 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,080 make it your own and then give them credit you. 516 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:44,320 Can see Pete's face like listening to that and he's like 517 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,640 literally logging every piece of kit that we get like an Amazon 518 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:49,720 wishlist that that's going to be a bit of the call. 519 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:54,320 But and and honestly, in true, true form, like that is exactly, 520 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,960 I think what happens when you get a group of guys together. 521 00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,560 You've hit a nail on the head. It's that competitive. 522 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,040 But use a term actually. And I think I'll invite you to 523 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:03,480 talk about it in a bit more detail after this. 524 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,800 But it's like, yeah, it's like if it's a Nancy nice guy thing, 525 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,600 but it's like we get told that competition isn't good. 526 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:13,240 And like, I think some guys go through go through this phase of 527 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:15,560 like they've been ultra competitive in their life and 528 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:17,920 then they have to blunt that competitiveness. 529 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:20,680 And actually when we've been in the group, and Pete can probably 530 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,520 share a bit more on this as well as like guys competing, but 531 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:27,320 instead of competing against competing with someone and it 532 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,800 pushes them to huge, huge feats of brilliance. 533 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:32,960 And you know, Pete, and you might want to share on this as 534 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:36,680 well, but we've seen guys competing in a such a powerful 535 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,000 way to where everyone's bowls upright. 536 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:43,920 Yeah, Before I do, I want to just bring it back to the basics 537 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:47,120 because I spotted this a couple of weeks ago when we were 538 00:26:47,120 --> 00:26:50,800 talking about archetypes. And honestly, a year ago, well, 539 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:54,120 the fuck's an archetype? This was no idea. 540 00:26:54,360 --> 00:26:56,520 Ben's talking to me about the magician and the warrior, and 541 00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,080 I'm like, dude, you've been studying this for a long time. 542 00:26:59,360 --> 00:27:01,680 Well, I've just been in business just doing my thing over there. 543 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:03,640 I have no. I want to be the gesture. 544 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:05,840 Can I do that? Yeah, what are you on about? 545 00:27:06,120 --> 00:27:09,120 So I think what the list business would find beneficial 546 00:27:09,120 --> 00:27:14,480 now is how would you define and how would you spot a nice guy? 547 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:16,920 You want me to answer that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. 548 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,120 Because it's like we as we find the time around a bit, a bit 549 00:27:20,120 --> 00:27:24,320 now, like nice guy, the Bupner was the nice guy, but actually 550 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:27,320 like, how would you define that? Like what would if you listen, 551 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,720 nice guy, what are they doing? Yeah, sure. 552 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:31,560 So, yeah, kind of back up a little bit. 553 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:33,560 That's usually the first question interviewers ask me. 554 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:35,560 So Robert, what is a nice guy and what's wrong with that? 555 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:40,800 So basically my kind of elevator definition quick pitch of a nice 556 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:44,520 guy is a guy who's internalized a belief, an emotional belief. 557 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,160 He's not. He's not OK, just as he is not 558 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,120 good enough, just as he is. So out of that come two things. 559 00:27:50,120 --> 00:27:55,080 One is a nice guy or a nice girl believes I have to become what I 560 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,240 think other people want me to be, to be like love, get my 561 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:02,040 needs met and be successful. And I have to hide anything 562 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,080 about me that might get a negative reaction from anybody. 563 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,240 That's why most guys want to want to do this work alone. 564 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,440 I, I don't want anybody to see me so nice guys. 565 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:14,040 It's just being a nice guy. It's just one of many 566 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:18,640 adaptations, survival mechanisms of having been born a helpless, 567 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,880 dependent, needy child with imperfect caregivers, which 568 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,360 that's all of us. Every human being is born 569 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:26,400 totally dependent and totally needy. 570 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:28,520 And we stay that way for a number of years. 571 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:32,280 Humans are the the slowest maturing animal of of any 572 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,800 species. Used to be took about 16 years 573 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,720 for a man to mature and that takes about 35 for a man to 574 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:39,720 mature. OK mom, dad, I'm ready to leave 575 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,880 now. So what happens is when we're 576 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,760 born, the prefrontal cortex part of our brain is still getting 577 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,360 wired up and doesn't finish in men till about age 25. 578 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,600 But the part of our brain down on the primitive brain stem down 579 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,800 here called the amygdala that's fully wired, that controls our 580 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,960 fight, flight, freeze mechanism, that controls respiration, 581 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,160 heartbeat. It's what keeps us alive. 582 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:03,400 That's on online when we're born. 583 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:07,680 And the theory is it also internalizes emotional 584 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:12,200 experiences, emotional belief. So when a baby is hungry and 585 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,400 nobody feeds him, when it's cold and nobody wraps him up, when 586 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:18,840 he's got a stomach ache and nobody can sue them, when you 587 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:22,080 know he has any kind of pain, just if he just left alone, 588 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:25,440 hungry, tired, dirty diaper, parents are fighting, you know, 589 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:29,760 he's abused, ashamed, you know, shaken anything. 590 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,160 The child emotionally internalizes. 591 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,280 I'm the cause of that. I'm bad. 592 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,480 And it's not thoughts, it's not worse. 593 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,120 It's not even picture memory. It's emotional memory. 594 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,520 Something's wrong with me. Again, I'm putting words to it, 595 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:44,560 but words don't really define it. 596 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,720 It's the gut feeling, the emotional feeling. 597 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:52,440 Now for every child with this very immature underdeveloped 598 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,760 brain tries to survive. Every animal does. 599 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,200 Every animal all the way down to, you know, the most primitive 600 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:00,720 reptiles that don't have much of A brain there. 601 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:04,680 Everything's about survive. So we as children, babies, we 602 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,880 develop survival mechanisms and they usually play 2 roles. 603 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:12,240 One is to try to comfort, soothe, make us feel better 604 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:16,040 right now as we feel bad. The other is to try to prevent 605 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,280 those same things from happening in the future that cause the 606 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,720 painful events now again, because we don't have an 607 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,080 accurate cause and effect, we think we caused it. 608 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,160 Babies are narcissistic by nature, the center of their 609 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,080 universe. We think we 'cause it, we don't 610 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,840 think it, but emotionally it is internalized. 611 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:36,040 I'm bad, I caused that. So what happens for nice guys is 612 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:39,720 well, if I'm, if I 'cause that I remedy, I can fix it. 613 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:41,720 I can prevent it, I can make it better. 614 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:45,720 Now again, every child develops these survival mechanisms. 615 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,160 How do I not feel bad right now? How do I prevent bad feelings in 616 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,600 the future? And but every child based on 617 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,800 usually temperament, birth order, other things develop in 618 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:58,160 different manners. Nice guy, he's just one way to 619 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,400 do it. You know, oppositionally defiant 620 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,480 might be another, aggressive might be another, perfectionism 621 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,000 might be another, just give up might be another. 622 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,960 There's no every baby does it different differently because 623 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,840 we're babies. So the nice guy grows up, comes 624 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,480 into childhood. This gets really magnified in 625 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:18,080 adolescence when when we want to start succeeding, being noticed, 626 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,560 get loved, get laid. And how do we do that? 627 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,040 Well, I'll do that by being nice. 628 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:25,720 I'll listen to the girls talk. I'll be different than the 629 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:27,760 jerks. I won't be too aggressive. 630 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,040 I'll be easygoing. I won't be completual. 631 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:31,440 I won't be like that. I won't be. 632 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,320 And, and so we take this path and they get solidified in 633 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,280 adolescence and we carried into adulthood and that becomes our 634 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:40,200 road map, our paradigm. And it boils down to, and no 635 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,520 more Mr. Nice Guy talk about covert contracts. 636 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:45,400 But so it boils down to three covert contracts for the nice 637 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:49,360 guy. First is if I'm a good guy, I'll 638 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:53,120 be liked and loved and the people I desire to have sex with 639 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,920 will desire to have sex with me. And that's where you see a lot 640 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,960 of frustration, resentment for a lot of a lot of young men come 641 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,200 in, not as young men. Men, I'm a good guy. 642 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,360 I treat women well. I'm not a jerk. 643 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:04,880 You know, they complain about jerks. 644 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:06,960 I'm not a jerk. I listen to them talk about the 645 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,160 jerks, but they don't want to be my girlfriend. 646 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:10,440 They don't want to have sex with me. 647 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:14,640 So that's Covert contract #1 if I'm a good guy, people will like 648 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:16,160 me and love me and I'll get laid. 649 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:20,680 Covert contract #2 is if I meet your needs without you having to 650 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,840 ask, then you'll meet my needs without me having to ask. 651 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:27,080 Now, all the covert contracts are ineffective and don't work. 652 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:31,080 This one really isn't. Hey, I read your mind and gave 653 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,000 you stuff I thought you would like and you know then you'd 654 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,440 appreciate me. Why don't you read my mind and 655 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,280 give to me? Oh, oh, I won't let you because 656 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,760 I'm a terrible receiver, because it makes me feel guilty to 657 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:44,120 receive anything. But I'll, I'll still feel 658 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:46,040 resentful when you don't give back. 659 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:48,480 And then I'll just keep trying harder, giving more to you, 660 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:50,800 hoping that you'll appreciate me and give back. 661 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:55,120 Covert contract #3 is if I do everything right, then I will 662 00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,920 have a smooth problem free life. And this kind of the Peter 663 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,160 Panish aspect of, of, of nice guy syndrome. 664 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:03,280 You know, I'm doing everything right. 665 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:06,640 I'm not a bad guy, you know, I don't hurt people, blah, blah, 666 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:08,200 blah, blah, blah. Everything should work. 667 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:10,680 You know, my, my, my wife should never get mad at me. 668 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,320 You know, I, I shouldn't get audited by the IRS. 669 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:16,320 My, I shouldn't get laid off. My business shouldn't fail. 670 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:18,240 I'm a nice guy. Everything should work out. 671 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:20,320 OK. So you know, if you if men are 672 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,240 listening to this, if you have that pattern of trying to become 673 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:25,400 what you think other what you think other people want you to 674 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,520 be so that the like you love you, you'll get a promotion, get 675 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:30,520 a sale. If you're hiding things about 676 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:34,440 you, your mistakes, your flaws, your insecurities, anything. 677 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,560 And if you're operating by those covert contracts of trying to be 678 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:40,040 good, so you'd be liked and loved, giving to others so 679 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:42,760 they'll give back and trying to do everything right, being that 680 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:44,840 perfectionist so that life will go smooth. 681 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:48,160 Odds are you develop that paradigm, that survival 682 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:52,760 mechanism of being quote nice to deal with your earliest painful 683 00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:55,480 life experiences. And again, most of the stuff we 684 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,080 can't think our way through because it's recorded as such an 685 00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:00,520 emotional level. How we usually work with it is 686 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,920 we notice where it's showing up. You know, I'm, I'm not getting 687 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:05,960 laid, all right? That's where it's showing up. 688 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:08,880 I'm not living up to my potential at work. 689 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,320 That's where it's showing up. I'm getting caught up in 690 00:34:11,639 --> 00:34:15,159 procrastination and, you know, deceptive productivity. 691 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:17,360 That's where it shows up. Well, I get caught up in 692 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,040 codependent relationships where I'm always fixing people and 693 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,360 putting fires out. That's where it shows up. 694 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:27,360 So you watch the where it shows up and then then you go, what 695 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,239 story is this telling? And then that's when we usually, 696 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:32,560 if you don't, you don't have to dig too deep usually to find out 697 00:34:32,679 --> 00:34:35,520 where there's probably covert contracts wrapped up in that 698 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:36,000 story. I. 699 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:38,679 Think there's a lot of people who listen to this are going to 700 00:34:38,679 --> 00:34:40,199 be feeling pretty triggered right now just. 701 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:43,199 Punch, punch in. The fights I know I'll just. 702 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:45,320 Do punch in the fight. I've just been sitting just 703 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:48,960 reviewing some of the playing back, some of the tape between 704 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:50,920 me and my partner over the last couple of months and I'm like. 705 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:52,600 Oh, there's work to be done here. 706 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:57,560 They're always here, you know? There's always, you know, it's 707 00:34:57,560 --> 00:34:59,720 funny because no more Mr. Nice Guy. 708 00:34:59,720 --> 00:35:02,560 When it came out, I said 20 years ago, the publisher had a 709 00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:05,880 lot of control of a lot of stuff, even down to the title, 710 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:08,880 which I wouldn't budget on the cover and and then the on for 711 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:12,320 the Audible version of it. And I said, you know, I want to 712 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,360 read the book. And I sent them, you know, a 713 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:18,880 little CD, you know, with me, you know, reading part of it. 714 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:21,720 And, and they hired a professional voice instead to 715 00:35:21,720 --> 00:35:24,720 read the book. And I, you know, I kept getting 716 00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:26,760 emails from people over the years, said, Robert, how come 717 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,800 you didn't read the book? You know, he, he mispronounces 718 00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,920 covert contracts. He calls them covered contracts 719 00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,680 in the book. And, and you know, and so after 720 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:39,000 about 15 years, I mean, the, the, the contract for the 721 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:42,520 Audible version, it long expired and it was only only available 722 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:44,400 in North America, which I never understood. 723 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:48,040 So I told my agent, I said, listen, you know, let's let's 724 00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:50,120 end that contract. I want a new contract. 725 00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:53,040 I want worldwide availability for the Audible version. 726 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:55,800 And I want to read it. And they said, OK. 727 00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:59,400 And so I got an e-mail from my agent a couple weeks later from 728 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:01,760 the people that had the contract, the company that the 729 00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:05,960 contract for the recorded book. And they said, OK, end of this 730 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:07,800 year, you know, contract will end. 731 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:10,920 And about two weeks later I got an e-mail from my agent. 732 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:14,640 They said the same company that had the contract that just ended 733 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:18,360 it made an offer. And we suggest you consider 734 00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:21,080 taking their offer. So I'm reading the e-mail. 735 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:23,080 So I got out of this old contract. 736 00:36:23,720 --> 00:36:26,960 The new proposal was Robert and I got it was a letter from the 737 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:29,560 vice president Company said we've only done this one other 738 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:31,800 time where we, you know, redid the book. 739 00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,640 You are synonymous you with the book. 740 00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:36,440 No more Mr. Nice. We want you to read it. 741 00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:39,040 We want to keep you on board. We're going to offer you a 742 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:45,840 $75,000 advance, $5000 to come to New York and read it and and 743 00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:48,960 worldwide distribution. I said, yeah, OK, I'll sign that 744 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:51,480 contract. And but so I went back to New 745 00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:53,760 York, coming on five years ago now. 746 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:58,000 And you know, I'm, I'm reading the book and it's really a great 747 00:36:58,000 --> 00:36:59,560 experience. Number one, I'm reading, I'm 748 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:03,040 getting tears in my eyes as I read stories of guys I worked 749 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:06,240 with right, as I saw their successes, their challenges and 750 00:37:06,240 --> 00:37:08,400 how they, you know, I'd forgotten these stories. 751 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,680 But but the funniest part about it all was I'm reading it going, 752 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:16,760 Oh, I still do that. Oh, I've slipped back into doing 753 00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:19,760 that. Oh, Oh my, I'm I'm, I'm like I 754 00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,600 say in the book, nice guys are are slow learners, quick 755 00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:25,200 forgetters. I go, Oh, yeah, I'm doing that 756 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:27,680 again. And so this stuff, because it is 757 00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:32,960 so wired into into our deepest emotional brain into it's in our 758 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,360 nervous system. I don't know that that we'll 759 00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:37,560 ever just like clean it completely out. 760 00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:41,080 It'll always show up in various ways and in different contexts, 761 00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:43,960 present new challenges. But the good news is if you, 762 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,840 once you really come to understand your own nice guy 763 00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:52,040 patterns, why they're there, how they manifest, you notice them 764 00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:55,040 quickly, you move through them quickly, you don't go down the 765 00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:57,040 rabbit hole. And, and for most nice guys, 766 00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,280 usually how most of our nice guy patterns show up is through 767 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,680 doing nothing, kind of hiding out, not not bringing our a 768 00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:06,480 game, not showing up. I mean, they show up in other 769 00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:09,720 ways as well, but that's usually for nice guys. 770 00:38:09,720 --> 00:38:13,080 It's usually shows up in some form of underachieved, not not 771 00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:17,680 living up to our full potential. Oh, oh, that's a real powerful 772 00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:19,480 statement. I think a lot of guys are going 773 00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:21,640 to resonate with that. Is it it's easier just to hold 774 00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,960 back and not be in the arena and being challenged and fail rather 775 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:28,280 than get in the arena, try and be, you know, the person that 776 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:30,560 they don't want to be. You know, I think that's a lot 777 00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:33,600 of we see a lot of guys holding back, withdrawing, withholding, 778 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:35,760 all that sort of stuff. And he's like, hey, just take it 779 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:37,920 to market, see what the market want with their business or 780 00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:41,360 their course and let the let the market verify if it works or 781 00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:43,120 not. Not hold back yourself. 782 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:44,600 They hate rejection. They hate. 783 00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:48,200 We can't, Yeah, we can't decide that, you know, I mean, every 784 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:51,400 successful businessman or every venturer, every, every, every. 785 00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:54,200 I discovered Mexico 20 something years ago. 786 00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:56,880 I thought I want to, I want to live here. 787 00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:00,160 And so, you know, about 10 years, got divorced, became 788 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,480 single, you know, got involved in business. 789 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:03,440 I can't. I want to live here. 790 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,240 I want to live here and, and it's like I, I didn't know what 791 00:39:06,240 --> 00:39:09,080 it would take, how it would happen, but it wasn't until I 792 00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:13,240 just made a hard decision like around 2007, 2008, you know, 793 00:39:13,240 --> 00:39:17,120 the, the recession hit, then my father died, then my brother 794 00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:19,720 died. Then I thought I, I got to go. 795 00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:21,880 I got to go. You know, I don't know how it's 796 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:24,080 going to work. So I let go of my lease on my 797 00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:27,480 apartment, let go of my lease on my office, said I'm going, 798 00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:29,000 pointed myself in that direction. 799 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:33,320 And once I started going, doors started opening for me that I 800 00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:36,240 never could have seen until I started the action. 801 00:39:36,720 --> 00:39:40,160 That's one thing that we do is we we go, OK, I got to plan all 802 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:41,680 of this out. I got to be prepared for 803 00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:43,160 everything. I have to know everything. 804 00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:45,680 You know, I started creating these video classes. 805 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:49,160 I didn't know anything. Now I think I'm actually pretty 806 00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:52,040 good at it, right? But took a year, but I actually 807 00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:55,680 had to just start doing it and struggling and bumping into 808 00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:59,160 stuff and doors opening and and trying new things. 809 00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,200 So same thing moving to Mexico when I decided I'm going to 810 00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:04,800 move, let go of my lease on my apartment, let go the lease on 811 00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,320 my office. And then all of a sudden my 812 00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:09,840 apartment manager says, Robert, you're coming back in three 813 00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:11,680 months because I was, it's just kind of going to go three 814 00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:14,040 months, come back to Seattle area. 815 00:40:14,240 --> 00:40:16,960 She said we're going to have a studio apartment open up in the 816 00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:18,240 building about the time you come back. 817 00:40:18,240 --> 00:40:21,000 You want me just hold your deposit and reserve that for you 818 00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:23,240 when you get back. I go, yeah, I'll take it. 819 00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:26,120 And when I let go of my office with all my furniture and 820 00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:28,920 everything, a colleague of mine said, Robert, I've been wanting 821 00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:30,360 to get back to doing groups again. 822 00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:33,000 And I hear you're leaving. Can I take over the lease on 823 00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:34,480 your office? And I go, yeah, you want to keep 824 00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,920 all the furniture and sublease it back to me when I come back 825 00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:39,240 in the summer a couple nights a week. 826 00:40:39,240 --> 00:40:42,480 And he goes, yeah, so I got my old office back with all the 827 00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:46,400 furnishings paying a fraction of what I was paying on the lease 828 00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:49,520 to use my office to come back couple nights a week in the 829 00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:52,400 summers while I was in in Seattle for the summers for six 830 00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:55,360 months. Doors just opened that I 831 00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:59,120 couldn't see until I started moving in that direction. 832 00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:03,280 And I promise you, to take that kind of risk, most of us need a 833 00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:06,000 support system. And we'll go back to our basic 834 00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:07,480 premise that we've been talking about. 835 00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:11,840 We, we need a group of men who are challenging themselves in 836 00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:13,840 similar ways. It doesn't matter business 837 00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:17,360 relationship, single guys learning how to talk to women. 838 00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,520 We, we, we need that. And, and so I want to share a 839 00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:23,400 piece that was really helpful for me and understanding the 840 00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:25,600 work of men's group. As I said, I've been in a men's 841 00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:28,120 group for years. I LED them for years when I was 842 00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:30,560 in private practice, I was leading five men's groups a 843 00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,240 week. I believe in it and I know the 844 00:41:33,240 --> 00:41:35,320 effectiveness of it. But it wasn't till about two 845 00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:38,360 years ago in the men's program, I'm in with a coach named John 846 00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:41,360 Weinland, who just published a book called from the core. 847 00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:44,120 And it's all about men's work. So good, good book. 848 00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:46,240 Check it out. And he references me a couple 849 00:41:46,240 --> 00:41:47,000 times. So that's good. 850 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:49,880 So I, I'm in this men's program with John. 851 00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:52,840 We have these periodic calls and John is, has worked with David 852 00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:54,280 data. They're they're, they're close 853 00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:56,800 for for years. And so David has come on calls 854 00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,040 with us a couple of times and answered questions. 855 00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:02,480 We had one call that was just about men's work, where guys in 856 00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:05,640 my program could ask David Data anything about men's work. 857 00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:09,320 And he said something that in all the years I've been involved 858 00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:10,840 in men's work, I'd never really thought of. 859 00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:12,680 And it was such a clear breakdown. 860 00:42:13,240 --> 00:42:15,840 And, and I think this is good to remember, you know, for, for 861 00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:17,320 those who are leading men's work. 862 00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,880 He said guys will come to a men's program, a men's group. 863 00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:24,720 They'll come in general for one of three reasons, or they'll 864 00:42:24,720 --> 00:42:27,840 come to any individual session for one of these three reasons. 865 00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:32,320 And he said, one is that they're hurting, they're in pain and 866 00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:34,280 they come for support, they come to be held. 867 00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:36,160 So this is the guy going through a divorce. 868 00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:38,640 This is the guy that, you know, has had a big set back of some 869 00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:40,200 sort. This is even the guy that, you 870 00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:42,640 know, never had sex. And he goes, I'm, I'm, I'm 871 00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:44,960 hurting. I, I want to find out how to get 872 00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:49,920 women to want to be with me. So they come looking for, to be 873 00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:53,000 held, to be nurtured, to be cared for because they're, 874 00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:55,960 they're in a rough spot. So men will come to a program or 875 00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:59,360 a group because they're hurting, but come to be challenged. 876 00:42:59,720 --> 00:43:01,560 And, and there's probably a lot of what you guys see in the 877 00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:04,440 program you do. They know we know we're, we're 878 00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:06,120 not living up to our full potential. 879 00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:09,600 We know we have so much in us. We know we can soar. 880 00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,720 We know we can shine, but our fears get in the way. 881 00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:16,240 Our our ADD gets in the way. Our, our self limiting beliefs 882 00:43:16,240 --> 00:43:18,680 get in the way. You know, everything gets in the 883 00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:20,920 way. So we need accountability, we 884 00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:23,280 need structure. We need to say, here's where I'm 885 00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:25,520 going, here's my plan for getting there. 886 00:43:25,720 --> 00:43:29,640 And guys call me out when I deviate from the plan, when I 887 00:43:29,720 --> 00:43:32,360 fall back in the old patterns. We need accountability. 888 00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:34,320 We need to have our feet held to the fire. 889 00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:37,960 We men need that, especially in our earliest years of life. 890 00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:41,880 And then data said a third reason men come to, to men's 891 00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:46,320 programs, men's groups is just to be, to just be with men. 892 00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:48,880 That's me. That's me. 893 00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:51,560 I'm at a stage of life. I have accountability. 894 00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:55,680 I, I, I have several account this morning doing this, this 895 00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:58,520 call with you guys. I'm not in my mornings writers 896 00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:00,440 group on Zoom that I'm in every morning. 897 00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:04,120 And you know, and it was painful actually to say, yes, I would do 898 00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:06,440 this call at the time. I'm using Zoom writing. 899 00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:09,040 I'm religious. I've been doing this program 900 00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:12,760 for, for five years, right? I made a commitment in my men's 901 00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:15,360 program five years ago to write 10 books in 10 years. 902 00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:19,040 And I, I, I like a lot of guys. I wasn't, I wasn't meeting that. 903 00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:22,960 And my coach said, can you start your day 90 minutes everyday 904 00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:24,720 writing? I can do that. 905 00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:26,760 And I've been doing that for five years. 906 00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:29,880 So that's turned into about three to four hours first thing 907 00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:32,240 every day because we're working on writing projects. 908 00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:34,720 So I've got a writer's accountability group. 909 00:44:34,720 --> 00:44:36,760 I have an exercise accountability group where we 910 00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:40,640 check in every day on Signal. I've got just an accountability 911 00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:43,600 group with six other conscious men that we meet every other 912 00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:44,720 week. We'll meet this afternoon, 913 00:44:44,720 --> 00:44:48,120 actually my time. So I need the accountability. 914 00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:51,320 It keeps me going in relationship, work, career, but 915 00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:55,000 mainly I just need to be, I need to be with men. 916 00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:58,160 Being on a call with you 2 conscious guys, that's a great 917 00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:00,560 way to start my day. So usually I'm on a call with 918 00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:03,200 other guys writing other conscious men and we, we don't 919 00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:05,400 even talk. We're just on Zoom doing our 920 00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:07,680 writing, doing our work. Wow, wow, and. 921 00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:11,720 And I've got three or four other groups, Zoom groups that I do a 922 00:45:11,720 --> 00:45:13,160 week. I'm in a men's program where we 923 00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:15,800 do a few workshops a year. I leave my own workshops for 924 00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:18,520 men. I got to be with men. 925 00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:21,640 My, my, my wife sees that. She, you know, she goes, do you 926 00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:25,160 think it's time you go, go spend some time alone, just on your 927 00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:26,600 own? Do you think it's time you go, 928 00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:28,520 you go spend some time with your guys? 929 00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:33,760 You know, she, she can see it. She, she knows that I need that 930 00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:35,760 time If I, if I tell her any time. 931 00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:38,840 Oh yeah, I got, I got a call today with my best friend is 932 00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:40,720 John. I call him Wanda Google because 933 00:45:40,720 --> 00:45:43,400 he works for Google to, to separate him from John, my 934 00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:46,720 coach, who's John then train a door, which is coach or trainer. 935 00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:50,160 And so I got a call with Tom Cruise today, which is Gregory 936 00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:52,880 or I got a call with Brad Pitt today, which is Wanda Google as 937 00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:55,040 well. I got AI got a call with the 938 00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:57,120 grand hero today. That's my friend Evan, who's a 939 00:45:57,120 --> 00:45:59,920 farmer. You know, I and she she's always 940 00:45:59,920 --> 00:46:02,400 happy who said tell him, hold up for me, tell him hi for me. 941 00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:04,800 You know, she's met many of the men. 942 00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:07,840 This will be my 4th year to have a writers retreat in my house in 943 00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:10,200 December. She meets all these guys that 944 00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:12,400 come down. It's usually 5-6 guys. 945 00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:15,800 She knows them. I do workshops in my home. 946 00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:19,400 She sees the men come into our home and and they tell her, 947 00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:22,120 Lapita, your husband's amazing. He's great. 948 00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:26,760 My wife loves seeing men have great respect for her husband. 949 00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:31,320 And I tell you what, I I just got to be with men. 950 00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:33,920 There's just if I'm not, I go downhill quickly. 951 00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:38,080 So the men in your programs and men listening to this. 952 00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:40,080 All right, maybe you need help right now. 953 00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:42,160 Maybe you're struggling, maybe you're hurting. 954 00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:45,440 Go find men. I, I say masculine is a source 955 00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:47,320 of love. We usually go looking for women 956 00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:51,080 to give us love and nurturing. No, the feminine is about 957 00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:54,400 demand. The masculine is about intention 958 00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:56,480 and action. You need something done. 959 00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:58,600 You want to be loved on go be with men. 960 00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:01,400 So if you want to be, if you want to be held, find a men's 961 00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:03,080 group. You need accountability. 962 00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:05,640 Find a men's group. You just need to be with the 963 00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:10,120 masculine energy of, of connectedness and love and you 964 00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:12,600 know, just straightforward corny humor. 965 00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:17,760 Go be with men because I, you know, all my buddies hear me say 966 00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:20,360 regularly whenever we're all hanging out in groups and 967 00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:21,840 workshops. I wish all the time. 968 00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:24,440 I love hanging out with men. I just love hanging out with 969 00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:26,000 men. You can say anything. 970 00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:29,200 You can do anything. You can be direct as hell to 971 00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:30,760 your brother. You don't have to walk on egg 972 00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:32,480 shells that he might get his feelings hurt. 973 00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:34,200 You don't have to figure out if he's happy. 974 00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:36,280 Did I do something right? Did I do something wrong? 975 00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:37,480 Do I got to do something different? 976 00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:39,560 Fuck, you just get to show up and be you. 977 00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:44,080 All right, I'll stop with that. I just, I just love doing men's 978 00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:46,920 work and being in men's work. The thing, the insight for me, 979 00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:49,720 Robert, for me, Sharon, is that you've spent so much time in 980 00:47:49,720 --> 00:47:52,000 these groups and and actually what you said there at the end, 981 00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:55,800 you just can be yourself. You can be who you are and just 982 00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:59,000 be as like when you first start explaining the Mr. Nice Guys 983 00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:02,920 like you're not OK as you are. And actually, what I can see 984 00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:05,520 from what you just shared is like the amount of time you just 985 00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:09,240 spent being who you are around man and getting love, respect, 986 00:48:09,240 --> 00:48:12,600 celebration for being that man has helped, has been the remedy, 987 00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:16,720 been the tonic, the medicine to help you integrate and be the 988 00:48:16,720 --> 00:48:18,440 man that you want to be, not the nice guy. 989 00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:21,480 And I can see that now. And like, that's why, you know, 990 00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:24,200 just I want to make sure we do have a discussion on this is 991 00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:27,240 that we wanted to, to give that more of a stage because going 992 00:48:27,240 --> 00:48:31,360 back to the original share is like when guys see men's work 993 00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:33,400 from the outside, it doesn't really compute. 994 00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:35,280 You're going to get all that stuff you've just shared. 995 00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:37,000 It doesn't make sense. You're going to get all that 996 00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:40,040 stuff and it doesn't make sense that it would make you super 997 00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:42,080 successful. So we wanted to create a better 998 00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:45,240 platform in the UK because it's, you know, a lot of the things 999 00:48:45,240 --> 00:48:46,560 that you mentioned in the States. 1000 00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:49,320 And actually I think like there is a small men's movement in the 1001 00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:52,200 Uki found some really, really great people when I was looking 1002 00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:54,600 for it. Equally, I didn't, I found that 1003 00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:57,400 there was a lot of stuff that I didn't resonate with that was 1004 00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:00,520 brought into these groups. It was just like the spaces or 1005 00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:04,040 the conversations. And I wanted to create one 1006 00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:08,520 specifically around business success, performance guys in 1007 00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:12,040 business with business specific problems or that late the middle 1008 00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:15,360 management guys trying to become the C-Suite guys, as I said to 1009 00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:17,960 Pete and we were talking about is like we would never have been 1010 00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:20,160 able to find a space. So we wanted to create an event 1011 00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:23,440 where guys could come in, find out about you. 1012 00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:26,120 We've, we actually had really, really some great luck with 1013 00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:29,040 getting some great psychotherapist to come and work 1014 00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:31,880 with the group this year. There's also a man who's really, 1015 00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:34,640 really well known in the market in space, who's agreed to 1016 00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:37,520 partner with us and he's got a, you know, phenomenal following, 1017 00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:40,800 but he sees in his life in the market where people are trying 1018 00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:44,240 to solve, solve personal issues of marketing issues and 1019 00:49:44,240 --> 00:49:45,960 business. Like, and me and Pete talked 1020 00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:49,080 about this is that in the past, sometimes we've seen guys sign 1021 00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:51,480 up for business programs when they've actually got personal 1022 00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:53,120 issues. And So what they do is another 1023 00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:55,120 business program. I'll sign up for another 1024 00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:58,040 business program, I'll make some more money, then I'll be happy. 1025 00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:00,280 And then they do that and they're like, holy shit, I'm 1026 00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:02,000 still not happy. It's because they haven't 1027 00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:04,440 actually gone and solved the problem, which is, you know, a 1028 00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:05,920 lot of the problems that you were sharing about their 1029 00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:09,000 relationship, about themselves, about their, how they see 1030 00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:12,120 themselves. And we just wanted to create a 1031 00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:17,200 platform to bring men together for a weekend in the UK and give 1032 00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:21,240 them the opportunity to learn more about the value of of men's 1033 00:50:21,240 --> 00:50:23,000 work. So yeah. 1034 00:50:23,240 --> 00:50:26,520 And you know, we've, we've had conversations about this and I'm 1035 00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:28,280 excited. I'm excited that you guys are 1036 00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:31,080 pulling this thing off with you making your impossible goal. 1037 00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:33,800 And by the way, I borrowed that from you guys. 1038 00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:36,920 Like I'm a big fan of stealing from the best in the in the 1039 00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:39,920 program that I'm launching. You know, out of that, that 1040 00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:43,560 event I told you I just ran is after I talked to you that Oh, 1041 00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:46,640 sixty day impossible goal. I like that. 1042 00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:50,040 That's that's a great a great platform to build on for, you 1043 00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:51,720 know, this this challenge that I'm going to do. 1044 00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:53,720 So thank you guys for that, by the way. 1045 00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:55,080 Yeah, absolutely. Our pleasure. 1046 00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:58,160 So, so just to talk about that event quickly, we actually 1047 00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:01,240 haven't come up with a name yet, but we just like as Robert 1048 00:51:01,240 --> 00:51:04,080 talked about earlier, just started and got straight into 1049 00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:06,000 action and we're like, right, we want to do this event. 1050 00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:09,840 It's going to be in January. We picked a date 28th slash 29th 1051 00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:12,640 of January 2023 and we just started. 1052 00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:15,120 Every day we're doing 1 little thing going towards it and we're 1053 00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:17,880 getting better and better and better at planning this event. 1054 00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:20,560 We've got some fantastic speakers lined up, including 1055 00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:22,520 Robert. We're now look at these amazing 1056 00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:24,240 venues. We've got loads of people 1057 00:51:24,240 --> 00:51:27,080 talking to us. And so get that in your Diaries 1058 00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:31,400 now, if you haven't already. 28th, 29th of January 2023, 1059 00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:34,240 London, Outskirts of London. That's what it's going to be. 1060 00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:37,320 It's on my calendar guys. Yeah, Robert's flying over from 1061 00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:39,120 the States to come and be with us. 1062 00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:44,600 And that in itself just speaks to the quality of the, you know, 1063 00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:45,840 we listened to the podcast today. 1064 00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:48,440 The quality and the depth that we've gone after just for the 1065 00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:51,240 speakers is phenomenal. But equally, just like getting 1066 00:51:51,240 --> 00:51:56,160 around the man in a room, we're going to get a big room and 1067 00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:59,840 we're going to really, really just do our best to create an 1068 00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:02,440 environment where guys get to connect with one another, 1069 00:52:02,720 --> 00:52:05,640 experience stuff together. So it's not just going to be 1070 00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:11,760 your typical sit there TEDx style, you know, nod your head. 1071 00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:13,960 I think this is interesting. There's going to be some 1072 00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:18,280 experiential work as well. And just to if you've been 1073 00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:21,280 thinking of doing that, it's probably a very low bar to it's 1074 00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:24,000 not joining amends group. It's not committing to going on 1075 00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:26,040 your own to a smaller group of guys. 1076 00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:28,640 It's a big event. So you can have some level of 1077 00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:33,040 anonymity as well. And my perception is that that's 1078 00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:35,200 going to help a lot of you guys who are listening to Thought 1079 00:52:35,240 --> 00:52:36,920 General. Actually, I'm I'm interested in 1080 00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:39,840 this men's work thing. I feel safer going to a bigger 1081 00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:43,000 group and a bigger thing where there's more likely to be people 1082 00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:45,560 that don't know each other than stepping into a quite an 1083 00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:47,560 intimate man's group. And that's what I found because 1084 00:52:47,560 --> 00:52:50,800 like when I walked through the door of my first man's group 1085 00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:53,800 that wasn't a course, I knew that they met on a regular 1086 00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:56,720 basis. I did feel really quite worried 1087 00:52:56,720 --> 00:52:58,840 because I was like these guys really know each other. 1088 00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:02,160 And as like, part of the reason I think that having the big 1089 00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:05,680 event is going to help is that you can definitely know that 1090 00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:07,880 there's going to be a lot of people that don't know each 1091 00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:11,160 other at that event. And then coming together in 1092 00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:15,520 that, that single cause, which is being a great man, being 1093 00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:17,960 successful in your marriage, being successful in your job, 1094 00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:19,840 and being the best version of yourself you can be. 1095 00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:23,160 And I think that's just quite a powerful common goal, right? 1096 00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:26,920 Yeah, I'll say something because it's funny that we have to pitch 1097 00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:29,720 to men. Oh, come to this event, you'll 1098 00:53:29,720 --> 00:53:32,240 be, you know, kind of anonymous. Nobody will know you. 1099 00:53:32,240 --> 00:53:33,800 You don't have to commit to anything. 1100 00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:36,360 You're not funny that that's the pitch that we give to men. 1101 00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:39,120 But, but let me say this too. I'm fortunate that, you know, I, 1102 00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:43,480 I get invited to different events to, to speak and I, I 1103 00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:47,680 mean #1 I'm flattered and I, I, I enjoy the speaking and the 1104 00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:50,040 sharing of ideas. But I tell you what, what I 1105 00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:54,960 enjoy the most about coming and doing men's events is that I get 1106 00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:58,240 to meet the men. And, you know, a lot of times 1107 00:53:58,240 --> 00:54:00,320 they're, you know, they're in a big hotel and, you know, you're 1108 00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:03,240 into these meeting spaces and there's a lobby outside with all 1109 00:54:03,240 --> 00:54:06,480 the book things and all that. And, and, you know, I usually 1110 00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:08,680 sit out in the lobby in between all the sessions. 1111 00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:12,680 I just sit out there and you know, most the attendees usually 1112 00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:14,800 figure out who I am pretty quick because I'm on the, you know, 1113 00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:18,680 I'm on the schedule, the roster, I've already spoken and I just 1114 00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:22,640 sit out there and guy, I watch. I just watch the guys and guys 1115 00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:25,000 come and talk to me and, and so I connect. 1116 00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:26,920 I like doing that. I like I just again, I like 1117 00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:30,960 being with men, but what I watch at these is these kind of 1118 00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:33,560 conferences, you know, that are big and, you know, kind of 1119 00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:35,480 anonymous. Usually there's usually groups 1120 00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:38,160 of two or three guys that often show up who do know each other. 1121 00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:39,920 They've all, hey, let's go do this thing. 1122 00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:42,840 You know, they know each other. But I noticed that men start 1123 00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:45,720 clicking and connecting because, you know, we got to eat so 1124 00:54:45,720 --> 00:54:46,880 often. You know, you have meals in 1125 00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:49,400 either the hotel restaurant or you go as big groups out there 1126 00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:52,960 and you got to sit next to somebody while you're eating and 1127 00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:54,560 somebody on the other side of you. 1128 00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:58,960 And before this thing's over, you know people, right? 1129 00:54:59,240 --> 00:55:02,080 And you've made connections and you're, you're, you're going to 1130 00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:05,040 follow up on some of them. And maybe you found resources 1131 00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:08,920 you didn't know existed. And a really good friend of mine 1132 00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:14,080 now, I met him at a conference I did in Florida three or four 1133 00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:16,720 years ago. And it was, he's a psychologist 1134 00:55:16,720 --> 00:55:18,800 in Denver, Co. And he was speaking on the 1135 00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:20,520 program. And we just happened to go out 1136 00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:24,720 and eat a couple of times. And I, I, I've been in his home. 1137 00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:28,080 He's met my wife. We talked every couple months or 1138 00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:30,120 so. We became good friends just 1139 00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:32,560 because we met at a conference, right? 1140 00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:37,120 So, yes, do come to this. If you kind of need the, you 1141 00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:41,040 know, blend into the crowd, not be noticed, great, Come on. 1142 00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:45,000 And if you know you need the connection with other men, 1143 00:55:45,240 --> 00:55:49,600 conscious men, with men that want to be good men and want to 1144 00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:52,240 live up to their full potential, man, I can't think of a better 1145 00:55:52,240 --> 00:55:55,280 way to go do it. Yeah, yeah, because it is funny 1146 00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:56,760 because guys like what you're saying there. 1147 00:55:56,760 --> 00:55:59,920 Actually, I went to a conference to speak last week and it's 1148 00:55:59,920 --> 00:56:02,880 actually for ladies. But watching like how I showed 1149 00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:05,200 up actually was really interesting because I naturally 1150 00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:07,640 retreat. I was not actually, I don't like 1151 00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:09,280 you. I do don't naturally come 1152 00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:12,200 forward and start conversations in in places I don't know very 1153 00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:14,360 well. But actually, by the end of the 1154 00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:17,000 day and the weekend, I felt like had some really significant 1155 00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:20,040 conversations with people on it and a really long lasting 1156 00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:22,480 relationship. So the question I wanted to 1157 00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:25,320 answer is that guys who are thinking to come into this 1158 00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:29,880 event, like when they see people like Robert speak and you know, 1159 00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:32,320 we've got some, we've got Dan joining us. 1160 00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:35,680 We've got we've got on the list a psychotherapist who's going to 1161 00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:38,760 be joining us as well. Is what can they actually expect 1162 00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:41,480 to get out of that event? Like what can you expect to get 1163 00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:43,760 from coming to to be around of the man? 1164 00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:46,240 Is that a lot of the things that we're going to be sharing are, 1165 00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:50,320 are going to be things that are going to exponentially help you 1166 00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:54,360 in your relationship, in your business, in your parenting and 1167 00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:56,320 actually just being a guy day-to-day. 1168 00:56:56,320 --> 00:56:59,200 And some of the endeavours like as Robert shared before actually 1169 00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:02,560 acknowledging that the there are groups, support groups, men's 1170 00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:05,520 groups, performance groups that you can access. 1171 00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:08,800 And, and actually they'll be, they'll be there to see in plain 1172 00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:11,600 sight because you'll see, see so many men even from the Awakened 1173 00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:13,680 Mom project as we were there on the weekend. 1174 00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:17,280 And that's why I feel it's so important because we haven't got 1175 00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:19,880 that event in the UK. There is one event similar in 1176 00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:22,240 the UK, but we don't don't really have one in the UK. 1177 00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:24,360 Yeah, I'm thrilled you guys are doing this. 1178 00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:27,600 I'm thrilled to be a part of it. And here's the beautiful thing 1179 00:57:27,600 --> 00:57:30,080 is you guys know of lunch and anything like this, you go into 1180 00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:33,240 it not knowing a lot, being scared, having questions. 1181 00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:37,280 You do it once, you go, OK, that worked, that worked. 1182 00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:38,880 OK, we could have done that a little differently. 1183 00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:41,600 We could have done that better. All now in next year, let's try 1184 00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:43,800 this. And and like, you know, once 1185 00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:46,960 you've anything, you know, well, there's walking up and talking 1186 00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:50,640 to a girl for the first time or launching your first men's 1187 00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:52,440 event. You know, if you don't, you 1188 00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:54,320 don't know what's going to happen until you do it. 1189 00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:57,880 And then after you do it, you go, oh, that was scary, but 1190 00:57:58,040 --> 00:57:59,760 let's do it again. Like getting on a roller 1191 00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:00,880 coaster. That was scary. 1192 00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:03,000 Let's do it again. And yeah, I know I I haven't 1193 00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:04,880 even thought about what I'm going to talk about yet when I'm 1194 00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:07,480 there. I I actually love doing Q and AI 1195 00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:09,920 love just being there, letting people ask because I find out, 1196 00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:11,480 you know, what's going on in people's lives. 1197 00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:15,080 What do they most need? And so I, I just, I just love 1198 00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:18,040 being up in front of the crowd and, and just being able to get 1199 00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:21,080 to meet their deepest needs, you know, and, and use, I'm a 1200 00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:23,200 relationship guy. That's my training, that's my 1201 00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:25,440 experience. But you know, I'm also a 1202 00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:29,560 businessman and I, I, I haven't gotten a paycheck since 1988. 1203 00:58:29,640 --> 00:58:32,960 So I, I, I was an entrepreneur before anybody used the word 1204 00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:35,560 entrepreneur. I was a digital nomad before 1205 00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:37,320 anybody used the term digital nomad. 1206 00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:39,680 So I love talking business as well. 1207 00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:43,040 So what, what whatever direction this goes, I know, I know 1208 00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:45,960 there's just going to be so much great information and just so 1209 00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:48,240 much energy. I tell you what, the guys that 1210 00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:51,320 are there, they, they will, they will be so energized. 1211 00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:54,080 They'll go out in public maybe with them and a few other guys 1212 00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:57,320 and people will actually ask you, who are you guys? 1213 00:58:57,520 --> 00:59:00,520 What are you about? Because there will be such an 1214 00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:03,400 energy about you from challenging yourself and being 1215 00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:06,200 with other other men who are challenging themselves as well. 1216 00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:07,360 I promise you that's going to happen. 1217 00:59:07,960 --> 00:59:10,720 Yeah, yeah. Like, like we've spoken before, 1218 00:59:10,720 --> 00:59:13,640 Robert, and you've come and spoken to the guys before and 1219 00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:16,400 like this conversation highlighted something for me 1220 00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:18,440 earlier and I'm still thinking about. 1221 00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:22,040 I can't get out of my head. And it's when you talk about the 1222 00:59:22,040 --> 00:59:25,160 nice guy and how actually that that comes back down to 1223 00:59:25,160 --> 00:59:28,240 parenthood and the way you were brought up and as a baby. 1224 00:59:28,240 --> 00:59:34,480 And I've got a Leo's 20 months old and I'm like, shit, like, 1225 00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:39,480 you know, you know, and, and I, I am very aware that the way I 1226 00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:43,480 act around Leo is, you know, that, you know, that's going in 1227 00:59:43,480 --> 00:59:48,000 his brain, that's going in his emotions and actually my nice 1228 00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:50,600 guy tendencies. And I was thinking, do you know, 1229 00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:54,360 so I'm going to share something now that I did this morning and 1230 00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:58,320 I felt bad afterwards. So we're walking out the door to 1231 00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:03,120 go to take Leo to nursery and he threw a little tantrum, right? 1232 01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:08,480 He got angry and he hit the, the dog's kennel door and it slammed 1233 01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:10,680 the door and it, and where Thor was in it. 1234 01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:15,000 And, and I told Leo off because I was enraged that he'd just 1235 01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:17,280 done this. And I so I told Leo off And 1236 01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:19,120 afterwards when I sat in the car thinking. 1237 01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:23,400 Probably I was trying to do was just express his anger, right? 1238 01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:25,880 He got angry for a second. He was trying to express it and 1239 01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:28,240 then I've told him off for expressing that. 1240 01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:31,960 And then what did I do for a bloody long time in my life and 1241 01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:34,760 still do now? Was I suppressed my anger and 1242 01:00:34,760 --> 01:00:37,400 suppressed my emotions? Because you were taught to. 1243 01:00:38,080 --> 01:00:41,600 Because I was taught to by my by my parents, right? 1244 01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:46,320 And and society, right. I'm thinking I thought about it 1245 01:00:46,320 --> 01:00:48,080 in the car. And then when you said that 1246 01:00:48,080 --> 01:00:51,720 earlier on, God, you know, this is such an important thing for 1247 01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:55,720 me as a father, right? Just being aware, like, just 1248 01:00:55,720 --> 01:00:58,640 being aware of, of these sorts of, and like just goes back to 1249 01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:01,760 how important being in these sorts of groups are and having 1250 01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:04,720 these sorts of conversations are because you get that awareness. 1251 01:01:04,720 --> 01:01:06,280 You're like, ah, do you know what? 1252 01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:07,520 I'm now aware of that. Yeah. 1253 01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:10,560 Next time that happens, I might act a little bit differently. 1254 01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:12,720 Yeah, exactly. I mean, again, my, my 1255 01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:14,400 background's marriage and family therapy. 1256 01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:18,280 So in the past, I, I worked with a lot of parents and I told 1257 01:01:18,280 --> 01:01:20,360 every parent, you're going to fuck your kids up. 1258 01:01:20,680 --> 01:01:23,440 What we all do. I mean, society fucks kids up. 1259 01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:26,160 Parents fuck kids up. Your kids going to get fucked 1260 01:01:26,160 --> 01:01:27,200 up. They're going to need therapy 1261 01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:28,440 someday. They're going to need coaching 1262 01:01:28,440 --> 01:01:30,720 someday. But I would tell the parents the 1263 01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:33,160 real issue is not how you fuck your kid up. 1264 01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:36,480 The real issue is how you recover from it and you 1265 01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:38,800 recovered from it. That's the real issue. 1266 01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:41,920 You lost it. Your your child was, it was was 1267 01:01:41,920 --> 01:01:45,480 just asserting his desire. You were asserting your desire. 1268 01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:48,600 You realize, oh, wait a minute, I need to do that more artfully. 1269 01:01:48,600 --> 01:01:50,080 I need to do that more masterfully. 1270 01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:52,560 And you'll do that differently next time. 1271 01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:55,800 And that's, that's, that's what it's all about. 1272 01:01:56,080 --> 01:01:59,000 But again, if we're hiding all of this stuff from the world, if 1273 01:01:59,000 --> 01:02:01,080 we're not talking about it, if we're not letting anybody know 1274 01:02:01,080 --> 01:02:04,280 about it, we're going to tend to just keep perpetuating the same 1275 01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:06,480 thing over and over again and again. 1276 01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:09,000 That's why I joined the men's program again, five years ago. 1277 01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:12,600 I was not having really pretty interactions with my wife. 1278 01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:15,160 They, they were going South. And, you know, we both loved 1279 01:02:15,160 --> 01:02:17,880 each other, but I thought, this is not going in a good 1280 01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:21,160 direction. I need to be around other people 1281 01:02:21,160 --> 01:02:23,720 where I can talk about what's happening to get better tools. 1282 01:02:24,240 --> 01:02:28,080 So again, this is we're all flawed, imperfect human beings. 1283 01:02:28,360 --> 01:02:32,880 Flawed, imperfect husbands, boyfriends, lovers, fathers, 1284 01:02:33,160 --> 01:02:35,160 business people. That's OK. 1285 01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:37,440 We're willing to keep challenging ourselves and 1286 01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:40,640 growing and recovering that. That's the real question. 1287 01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:42,880 Yeah. And again, I'll get it will be 1288 01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:46,600 the broken record here. We need other men to help us do 1289 01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:48,240 this. We need other conscious growing 1290 01:02:48,320 --> 01:02:50,840 men to do this. Yeah, just shameless. 1291 01:02:50,840 --> 01:02:53,040 Plug here, guys. Listen to the podcast. 1292 01:02:53,560 --> 01:02:59,040 Please do us a favour and rate and review us wherever you are 1293 01:02:59,040 --> 01:03:02,040 because we're trying to grow this podcast and your reviews 1294 01:03:02,320 --> 01:03:06,600 absolutely help. We also have a crazy interview 1295 01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:10,320 with Robber that we did a while ago in our Facebook group. 1296 01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:14,000 It is the most watched interview in the Facebook group and there 1297 01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:16,800 are lots of trainings in there. There's lots of videos in there 1298 01:03:16,800 --> 01:03:19,280 on men's work. So search the Awaken Man project 1299 01:03:19,280 --> 01:03:21,840 on Facebook and you'll find it. Join it, you can watch that. 1300 01:03:22,080 --> 01:03:23,560 Yeah, thank. You shameless plugs. 1301 01:03:23,680 --> 01:03:26,360 They're the best kind. Yeah, we practiced that. 1302 01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:28,960 That's so polished. Just off the cuff it. 1303 01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:34,800 Just came fever. It's like infomercial style, but 1304 01:03:34,800 --> 01:03:39,560 honestly, Robert you trumped is like your video in session you 1305 01:03:39,560 --> 01:03:42,720 did with your wakeman group. Guys watch it and they messages 1306 01:03:42,720 --> 01:03:45,440 saying wow, blew my mind. The stuff you shared on loving 1307 01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:48,600 dominance, things he said about being part of a men's group and 1308 01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:52,120 why it's important, like it literally did help so many men. 1309 01:03:52,120 --> 01:03:55,120 So I'm really grateful for that and just the fact you've, you 1310 01:03:55,120 --> 01:03:58,680 know, committed to coming over and being part of this event. 1311 01:03:59,080 --> 01:04:03,280 Guys like Pete said he reviewed the podcast, but also share this 1312 01:04:03,280 --> 01:04:05,680 with another man because this is the way that we're going to 1313 01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:07,320 share this message. Don't be selfish. 1314 01:04:07,360 --> 01:04:08,960 Don't keep this goal to yourself. 1315 01:04:08,960 --> 01:04:11,960 I'm sure what you've listened to, if it's affected you as much 1316 01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:14,800 as I've listened, I've enjoyed listening to it today. 1317 01:04:15,080 --> 01:04:17,240 Please share another man because that's what we're trying to do 1318 01:04:17,240 --> 01:04:20,920 is trying to read the word of how much men's work is needed 1319 01:04:20,920 --> 01:04:23,680 for so many men in this current climate. 1320 01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:27,240 And come to the event, you know, you're going to hear if you join 1321 01:04:27,240 --> 01:04:28,720 the Facebook group, you'll hear about it. 1322 01:04:28,720 --> 01:04:30,760 If you follow us, we'll tell you about it. 1323 01:04:30,760 --> 01:04:32,840 We'll be we'll be pushing out information about it. 1324 01:04:33,120 --> 01:04:35,040 And Robert's going to be there and we're going to have some 1325 01:04:35,040 --> 01:04:37,000 incredible world class speakers alongside him. 1326 01:04:37,160 --> 01:04:39,320 So come and join us. Robert's want to thank you so 1327 01:04:39,320 --> 01:04:42,040 much for the investment in time energy you put into today's 1328 01:04:42,040 --> 01:04:44,000 session. And it's been an absolute 1329 01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:46,360 pleasure once again to to have your company. 1330 01:04:46,640 --> 01:04:48,760 Thank you and thank you for the invitation and that man. 1331 01:04:49,360 --> 01:04:51,440 I'm looking forward to London. Yeah, me too. 1332 01:04:51,440 --> 01:04:57,760 Thank you, Pete. Right. 1333 01:04:57,760 --> 01:05:01,720 And team insights on the Doctor Robert Glover podcast. 1334 01:05:02,520 --> 01:05:04,280 Ben, let's get into this one, mate. 1335 01:05:04,280 --> 01:05:08,000 This is going to be a good one. Yeah, that was a great episode. 1336 01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:12,160 I really first of I think first and foremost, I couldn't believe 1337 01:05:12,160 --> 01:05:16,200 that he came on the podcast. Like I remember, I remember like 1338 01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:18,040 getting in touch with him and he's like, yeah, sure. 1339 01:05:18,040 --> 01:05:19,880 I'll come on your podcast because we were growing this, 1340 01:05:20,040 --> 01:05:24,880 you know, men's movement podcast and like just just that the 1341 01:05:24,880 --> 01:05:27,800 first insight for me, it was just how he showed her. 1342 01:05:28,040 --> 01:05:31,040 I mean, he first started recording and he and he had this 1343 01:05:31,040 --> 01:05:31,960 guy. So this guy. 1344 01:05:31,960 --> 01:05:35,440 So Robert is 60 plus years old. Maybe he's. 1345 01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:37,800 Mid 60s. Yeah, right. 1346 01:05:37,800 --> 01:05:40,080 And he came on everything prepped. 1347 01:05:40,080 --> 01:05:42,120 He has four routers in case it goes down. 1348 01:05:42,360 --> 01:05:44,240 He's moving and shaking with his tech. 1349 01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:45,360 And like, I'll just remember singing. 1350 01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:48,960 I was like, Oh my God, this guy is like he's, he's phenomenal. 1351 01:05:48,960 --> 01:05:52,760 He was really as a guy, he was really inspirational. 1352 01:05:53,480 --> 01:05:55,800 And then, and then the second thing I noticed as well is that 1353 01:05:55,800 --> 01:06:00,240 he was just like so easy to talk to, like super duper easy. 1354 01:06:00,680 --> 01:06:03,240 And even we had some tech issues at the start of the call, which 1355 01:06:03,240 --> 01:06:04,880 was like, but it's all super calm. 1356 01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:07,920 But that was the biggest, you know, the, the first insight I 1357 01:06:07,920 --> 01:06:10,360 had when we, when we got on the call with him, because like I'd 1358 01:06:10,360 --> 01:06:12,680 read his book, I was like, this guy's in my world. 1359 01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:16,040 This guy, I know I referenced him as like the Alex Ferguson of 1360 01:06:16,040 --> 01:06:18,200 men's work. He, he, he was, I was like, Oh 1361 01:06:18,200 --> 01:06:19,960 my God. But I think he was our first big 1362 01:06:19,960 --> 01:06:22,600 guest. He was, he was our first big 1363 01:06:22,600 --> 01:06:26,680 guest and he was and still is. He's just phenomenal guest. 1364 01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:32,120 We've had him on since we talked on stage with him and being just 1365 01:06:32,120 --> 01:06:38,000 like Ben said there, the guy has life force like he has like he 1366 01:06:38,440 --> 01:06:40,520 like you can feel the aura of the guy. 1367 01:06:40,600 --> 01:06:43,800 And what I noticed about that episode now, like re listening 1368 01:06:43,800 --> 01:06:47,840 to it and he said that he started men's work when he was 1369 01:06:47,840 --> 01:06:51,640 in his mid 30s, just like, you know, we we started men's work 1370 01:06:51,640 --> 01:06:55,840 kind of early 30s. And now Robert is, you know, his 1371 01:06:56,000 --> 01:06:57,920 mid 60s. So he's been doing this for he's 1372 01:06:57,920 --> 01:07:00,840 been doing this for 30 odd years, 30 plus years he's been 1373 01:07:00,840 --> 01:07:03,480 doing the work for. But you can see like his 1374 01:07:03,480 --> 01:07:09,200 commitment to his own personal development and like how easy he 1375 01:07:09,200 --> 01:07:13,520 is to talk to how smooth the podcast when his life force, 1376 01:07:13,520 --> 01:07:16,680 when you see him in person, that is down to his commitment of 1377 01:07:17,200 --> 01:07:19,680 doing the the the work doing it self development. 1378 01:07:20,360 --> 01:07:24,120 Yeah, and I, I just wanted to like remind y'all, if you're 1379 01:07:24,120 --> 01:07:27,640 not, if you've not read, no, like no, no more Mr. Nice Guy. 1380 01:07:28,120 --> 01:07:31,000 It's the, it's the foundational book of, of men's work. 1381 01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:34,880 So like we talked about this on, I think we've nearly every 1382 01:07:34,880 --> 01:07:37,320 podcast recently we've mentioned this is when you give someone a 1383 01:07:37,320 --> 01:07:39,640 book and it's, it's a book that changes their life. 1384 01:07:39,640 --> 01:07:42,960 You never forget the person that told you to to read that book. 1385 01:07:44,400 --> 01:07:47,760 And I remember it was actually Craig who's been on the podcast 1386 01:07:47,760 --> 01:07:50,560 early on. It's like, it gave me that book. 1387 01:07:50,560 --> 01:07:52,400 He's like, oh, you need to read that book. 1388 01:07:52,400 --> 01:07:55,920 And I remember reading it thinking I'm not a nice guy. 1389 01:07:56,320 --> 01:08:00,160 I'm not all these things. And I now looking back this so 1390 01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:02,840 just that episode was tipped it two years ago. 1391 01:08:03,280 --> 01:08:07,080 Yeah, two years in October. Two years ago, literally 1392 01:08:07,080 --> 01:08:11,240 thousands of downloads later and I look back and I'm like, it's 1393 01:08:11,240 --> 01:08:14,880 still the most popular episode on Awake Man podcast. 1394 01:08:15,840 --> 01:08:19,000 I look back and like how far I've come since then, but also 1395 01:08:19,000 --> 01:08:21,240 how far I've come since I first read his book. 1396 01:08:21,479 --> 01:08:25,160 You know, I've read his book three times and every time I've 1397 01:08:25,160 --> 01:08:28,479 read the book, I've seen something different about what's 1398 01:08:28,479 --> 01:08:30,279 currently going on in my relationship. 1399 01:08:30,359 --> 01:08:32,640 A because I went from being single. 1400 01:08:33,200 --> 01:08:38,120 Sorry, I've been from like newly divorced to in a relationship 1401 01:08:38,120 --> 01:08:41,319 where I'm, you know, was like learning and going through the 1402 01:08:41,319 --> 01:08:43,560 work to now married. I'm probably going to read it 1403 01:08:43,560 --> 01:08:45,359 again because now I'm married and I'm like, there's a whole 1404 01:08:45,359 --> 01:08:46,920 host of new things that it's going to come up. 1405 01:08:46,920 --> 01:08:51,000 So there's something about like, you know, that not fearing the 1406 01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:54,920 guy that's done 1000 kick, sorry, one kick 1000 times 1407 01:08:55,120 --> 01:08:59,279 instead of 1000 kicks once. It's like rereading that book 1408 01:08:59,279 --> 01:09:04,720 has been such a staple for me in my I I wouldn't say like a 1409 01:09:04,720 --> 01:09:07,160 proper nice guy recovery because I think when you speak to a lot 1410 01:09:07,160 --> 01:09:09,560 of guys, they're like, I'm a proper nice guy. 1411 01:09:09,680 --> 01:09:12,359 I'm a proper nice guy. I'm I'm afraid of conflict. 1412 01:09:13,080 --> 01:09:15,200 He talks about himself. He's like, I'm a nice guy. 1413 01:09:15,200 --> 01:09:17,399 You know, I'm AI don't I'm afraid of conflict. 1414 01:09:17,399 --> 01:09:19,160 I'm nice to people. I'm grateful. 1415 01:09:20,000 --> 01:09:23,279 I was half on heart, half and half out on that one. 1416 01:09:23,920 --> 01:09:26,560 Yeah, yeah. Talking about evolution, 1417 01:09:27,319 --> 01:09:32,960 listening back to that podcast, I, I didn't bash guys in the 1418 01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:38,200 woods drumming their bashing their drums and doing yoga and 1419 01:09:38,200 --> 01:09:41,439 sunning their arseholes, but I didn't allude to bashing them. 1420 01:09:41,920 --> 01:09:43,640 And now I, what do I find myself? 1421 01:09:43,640 --> 01:09:45,640 I mean, I'm not in the woods bashing my drum or sunning my 1422 01:09:45,640 --> 01:09:49,720 arsehole, but I am doing yoga and and actually like witnessing 1423 01:09:49,720 --> 01:09:53,760 that evolution of myself over the last two years, being super, 1424 01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:58,880 super in the warrior go, go, go, drive direction action fucking 1425 01:09:58,880 --> 01:10:03,120 hard as nails, chest up. So now actually leaning into I 1426 01:10:03,120 --> 01:10:06,280 fucking love the yo. I love the polarity of doing jiu 1427 01:10:06,280 --> 01:10:10,400 jitsu and then going and doing yoga after the same day. 1428 01:10:10,920 --> 01:10:15,960 And it's really evolved me as a man and just witnessing that in 1429 01:10:15,960 --> 01:10:18,400 myself. And now I recommend it to guys 1430 01:10:18,800 --> 01:10:21,600 and when I see guys who are I'm like, fucking hell, you and me 1431 01:10:21,600 --> 01:10:24,160 two years ago. You need to, I'm sorry to say 1432 01:10:24,160 --> 01:10:27,480 this mate, but you have to stop enough a little bit and do 1433 01:10:27,480 --> 01:10:30,320 something that's a little bit outside your comfort zone so you 1434 01:10:30,320 --> 01:10:33,760 can stop being this like hard faced man. 1435 01:10:34,520 --> 01:10:37,400 Yeah. Well, I, I think that was we, we 1436 01:10:37,400 --> 01:10:42,120 did that interview and you were still just about leaving your 1437 01:10:42,120 --> 01:10:43,440 company. Yeah. 1438 01:10:43,920 --> 01:10:45,880 I think you were just going through that and you'd just come 1439 01:10:45,880 --> 01:10:50,880 in to wake a man full time. And yeah, I can see, I can see 1440 01:10:50,880 --> 01:10:54,320 the difference in you looking back, like, and if I just said 1441 01:10:54,320 --> 01:10:55,560 to you, dude, like, let's do some yoga. 1442 01:10:55,560 --> 01:10:57,360 The thing is though, you being you, you'd probably gone. 1443 01:10:57,360 --> 01:10:58,720 Yeah, I'm actually open to do it. 1444 01:10:58,720 --> 01:11:00,520 I'll go and do it. But there's a difference 1445 01:11:00,520 --> 01:11:02,920 between, yeah, I'll go and do it just to serve go and doing it 1446 01:11:02,920 --> 01:11:05,680 versus I want to go and do this. I actually see it as part of my 1447 01:11:05,680 --> 01:11:07,960 identity. I actually see it as a part of 1448 01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:11,760 my, my growth as a guy. And he actually says this and he 1449 01:11:11,800 --> 01:11:14,520 goes, Oh, you know, if you're going to go and do it as you 1450 01:11:14,520 --> 01:11:16,960 work in a men's group, you're going to do it as you're going 1451 01:11:16,960 --> 01:11:18,880 to go to a jiu jitsu group, you're going to start doing 1452 01:11:18,880 --> 01:11:21,960 yoga, whatever you choose. What I think was really 1453 01:11:21,960 --> 01:11:24,400 important is that actually you can do it all. 1454 01:11:24,640 --> 01:11:28,040 And I think this is what I think that this is what so many. 1455 01:11:28,840 --> 01:11:32,040 Well, I definitely had myself is that I thought men's work had to 1456 01:11:32,040 --> 01:11:33,800 be done. Sat in a circle with a group of 1457 01:11:33,800 --> 01:11:38,920 men in a Pilates studio and it and I was like, Oh, this is my 1458 01:11:39,920 --> 01:11:44,200 idea of men's work. And what Awake a Man created is 1459 01:11:44,200 --> 01:11:47,240 this ability to do it in such a different way. 1460 01:11:47,640 --> 01:11:52,840 You know, doing it in cool hotels in Greece, doing it in 1461 01:11:52,960 --> 01:11:57,760 like London, in nice places, coming to Dubai and doing 1462 01:11:57,760 --> 01:11:59,600 skydiving. That's all men's work. 1463 01:12:00,360 --> 01:12:03,480 And like all that stuff is men's work because it's spending time 1464 01:12:03,480 --> 01:12:06,200 with guys. It's spending time with guys who 1465 01:12:06,320 --> 01:12:08,400 are on the same wavelength as you. 1466 01:12:09,280 --> 01:12:11,200 And that's the medicine. And I'm thinking that, you know, 1467 01:12:11,240 --> 01:12:14,800 there was, I've actually kind of bit not, not not annoyed at 1468 01:12:14,800 --> 01:12:18,000 myself, but I was like, I was more like, I need a group. 1469 01:12:18,000 --> 01:12:19,320 And me and Pete have talked about this. 1470 01:12:19,320 --> 01:12:21,880 I need a group in Dubai. And I say the word need. 1471 01:12:21,880 --> 01:12:25,960 I don't often use the word need frivolously. 1472 01:12:25,960 --> 01:12:29,280 I, I not, I want to be in AI need a group of men in Dubai. 1473 01:12:30,400 --> 01:12:34,320 And I think that was a big thing that he was really like selling 1474 01:12:34,320 --> 01:12:37,200 in that podcast is like, guys, listen to me. 1475 01:12:37,200 --> 01:12:40,120 I know what I'm talking about. Guys need guys and like, and 1476 01:12:40,320 --> 01:12:43,440 like as you listen back to the episode, it's like multiple 1477 01:12:43,440 --> 01:12:46,360 times in the episode, guys get around guys, guys get around 1478 01:12:46,360 --> 01:12:48,520 guys. And guess what happened when I 1479 01:12:48,520 --> 01:12:50,480 went home over the summer? All. 1480 01:12:50,480 --> 01:12:54,280 The guys who haven't been around, guys have been 1481 01:12:54,280 --> 01:12:58,080 struggling emotionally, yeah, massively, because they are 1482 01:12:58,080 --> 01:13:00,520 disconnected from guys. And that's all I saw all the way 1483 01:13:00,520 --> 01:13:02,600 through the summer. Yeah, well that, well, he says 1484 01:13:02,600 --> 01:13:05,880 that men are looking for something. 1485 01:13:06,400 --> 01:13:09,520 Men are searching. Even if they don't realise 1486 01:13:09,520 --> 01:13:12,040 consciously that they're searching and they're looking 1487 01:13:12,040 --> 01:13:15,560 for something, they are. And most guys will then end up 1488 01:13:15,560 --> 01:13:18,720 in some form of group. It could be a Yogi space, it 1489 01:13:18,720 --> 01:13:22,280 could be a jiu jitsu club, it could be an MMA club, it could 1490 01:13:22,280 --> 01:13:26,640 be a men's group. It could be and most guys will 1491 01:13:26,640 --> 01:13:29,320 end up there. Might not be the right space for 1492 01:13:29,320 --> 01:13:31,560 them to be in. Might have to navigate that and 1493 01:13:31,560 --> 01:13:33,240 evolve and find some different groups. 1494 01:13:33,240 --> 01:13:37,880 But men are searching and we do fucking belong in tribes. 1495 01:13:38,680 --> 01:13:43,840 Yeah, actually it was it was even just connecting with with 1496 01:13:43,840 --> 01:13:47,200 one of the guys and and like he actually called me out the other 1497 01:13:47,200 --> 01:13:49,000 week and he said, oh, well, if you've got a gift that you 1498 01:13:49,000 --> 01:13:51,200 haven't, you're not sharing with the world. 1499 01:13:51,200 --> 01:13:53,640 I think you're a bit of a see you next Tuesday. 1500 01:13:55,120 --> 01:13:58,120 And I was like, oh, that's exactly what I needed to hear. 1501 01:13:59,000 --> 01:14:04,760 And I think you don't get that kind of direct love in anywhere 1502 01:14:04,760 --> 01:14:07,520 other than than a probably a proper men's group where you've 1503 01:14:07,520 --> 01:14:09,400 got a conscious man. And I think that was a big 1504 01:14:09,400 --> 01:14:11,640 distinction you kept on coming back to as well. 1505 01:14:11,680 --> 01:14:15,040 And, and to your point there, Pete, there's a difference 1506 01:14:15,040 --> 01:14:17,520 between a group of men and a group of conscious men. 1507 01:14:17,520 --> 01:14:20,680 And I and I, I love my mates. I, I love my mates. 1508 01:14:20,680 --> 01:14:22,800 We we spend great time together over the summer, we got 1509 01:14:22,800 --> 01:14:26,240 together, but I don't know about you and maybe you want to talk 1510 01:14:26,240 --> 01:14:28,400 to this as well. Is that when I'm with a group of 1511 01:14:28,400 --> 01:14:32,760 men who that are not conscious that don't like talking about 1512 01:14:32,760 --> 01:14:35,960 deep things that don't like really open and open, I'm like, 1513 01:14:36,280 --> 01:14:37,960 there's AI felt. I'm like there's a conversation 1514 01:14:37,960 --> 01:14:40,640 that we're not having here. I'm standing in a room like 1515 01:14:40,640 --> 01:14:42,360 there's a conversation that's not been hard here. 1516 01:14:43,520 --> 01:14:46,920 And whereas I get on a call with you or I speak to the you know, 1517 01:14:46,960 --> 01:14:48,920 especially with it's like, oh, we have that. 1518 01:14:49,280 --> 01:14:51,440 We'll say the things that need to be said and we talk about the 1519 01:14:51,440 --> 01:14:52,760 things that need to be talked about. 1520 01:14:53,920 --> 01:14:54,880 Does that make sense? Yeah. 1521 01:14:54,920 --> 01:14:57,160 Oh, fucking absolutely. I was. 1522 01:14:57,200 --> 01:15:03,480 I was out with 12 guys about a month ago and some of these guys 1523 01:15:03,480 --> 01:15:08,600 were new into being in a kind of a group of conscious men. 1524 01:15:09,520 --> 01:15:12,480 There was probably half the group that were very new to 1525 01:15:12,480 --> 01:15:15,560 this. The guy was sat next to me and 1526 01:15:15,560 --> 01:15:20,360 he was talking about his, he got twins, young, young twins. 1527 01:15:21,080 --> 01:15:26,680 And but he was talking about like how the last two years have 1528 01:15:26,680 --> 01:15:29,920 been so hard. It's been such a chore looking 1529 01:15:29,920 --> 01:15:33,800 after them. It was all like it was all down, 1530 01:15:33,800 --> 01:15:37,640 down, down, down, down. And he and he said, he said, you 1531 01:15:37,640 --> 01:15:39,360 know, you've got, you've got a boy, you know what I mean? 1532 01:15:39,480 --> 01:15:43,560 And I was like, dude, do you mind if I challenge you here? 1533 01:15:44,680 --> 01:15:47,240 And he and he was like, yeah, sure. 1534 01:15:47,280 --> 01:15:49,960 He and I don't think anyone had ever asked him that. 1535 01:15:50,480 --> 01:15:53,480 And the guy and the guys opposite who's in this world, he 1536 01:15:53,480 --> 01:15:57,280 is like be in a group like this. Get used to guys saying that to 1537 01:15:57,280 --> 01:15:59,240 you. And I challenged him on what he 1538 01:15:59,240 --> 01:16:01,920 was saying. And I was like, I think you need 1539 01:16:01,920 --> 01:16:06,720 to change your story there like about you having two beautiful 1540 01:16:06,720 --> 01:16:10,800 twins that like you, you are blessed, yet you're talking 1541 01:16:10,800 --> 01:16:13,520 about it like it's the hardest and worst thing in your life. 1542 01:16:14,200 --> 01:16:19,800 Like like that is the reframe the story here, man. 1543 01:16:20,480 --> 01:16:23,560 And he was like, he was like, fuck yeah, thanks. 1544 01:16:24,320 --> 01:16:25,840 And the other guy was like, get used to that. 1545 01:16:25,880 --> 01:16:28,880 Be in a group like this and get used to being challenged on your 1546 01:16:28,880 --> 01:16:31,840 on your narratives that probably aren't serving you. 1547 01:16:33,360 --> 01:16:38,400 Yeah, I, I, I think that you don't get that unless you're in 1548 01:16:38,640 --> 01:16:43,080 a proper group of a closed group to a certain degree of man. 1549 01:16:43,880 --> 01:16:46,520 And that's like in the workplace, you, you wouldn't get 1550 01:16:46,560 --> 01:16:48,160 that. It's almost now and this is what 1551 01:16:48,160 --> 01:16:49,960 I'm seeing. It's like I was speaking to a 1552 01:16:50,320 --> 01:16:53,280 client yesterday, actually. And it's like he wants to say 1553 01:16:53,280 --> 01:16:57,240 that in, in a group in work, but he's so worried about the 1554 01:16:57,240 --> 01:17:00,400 legalities of how you can speak to people who works in the 1555 01:17:00,400 --> 01:17:03,280 States. And he's like, I'm so, you know, 1556 01:17:03,280 --> 01:17:06,000 I'm afraid of what I could would happen if I spoke to someone 1557 01:17:06,000 --> 01:17:09,280 like that in in the States. And so I, I actually, we took, 1558 01:17:09,280 --> 01:17:11,600 we did an episode on radical candour and I was like, read 1559 01:17:11,600 --> 01:17:14,600 radical candour. It's like that is a definite way 1560 01:17:14,600 --> 01:17:16,280 to speak to people in the workplace. 1561 01:17:16,880 --> 01:17:19,840 But yeah, but like I think that this is something like I've 1562 01:17:19,840 --> 01:17:27,160 realised since is that love, like love for man is challenge. 1563 01:17:27,400 --> 01:17:32,680 Like that is actually like really giving a shit about a 1564 01:17:32,680 --> 01:17:37,240 mate or a buddy or a is not just pacifying him when he's 1565 01:17:37,240 --> 01:17:39,200 struggling. It's like say it's the sayings. 1566 01:17:39,200 --> 01:17:41,880 He's like, listen man, I think the way you're seeing this is a 1567 01:17:42,160 --> 01:17:44,000 bunch of bullshit. You need to look at it 1568 01:17:44,000 --> 01:17:46,520 differently. And actually, when you receive 1569 01:17:46,520 --> 01:17:51,360 that from another guy, I don't think you ever go, yeah, fuck 1570 01:17:51,360 --> 01:17:52,680 you. You know, it's always it's 1571 01:17:52,680 --> 01:17:54,000 always like, oh, yeah. Do you know what? 1572 01:17:54,000 --> 01:17:56,680 Thanks for. Thanks for, you know, holding 1573 01:17:56,680 --> 01:17:58,480 that mirror for for. Me, I want Cher here. 1574 01:17:59,480 --> 01:18:03,480 I had this yesterday, not receiving this from another guy, 1575 01:18:03,480 --> 01:18:10,520 receiving this from a woman. So yesterday I went and, and met 1576 01:18:10,520 --> 01:18:17,160 someone we dated for a little bit and we, we, we ended things. 1577 01:18:17,160 --> 01:18:18,800 We just do, you know what? This isn't right? 1578 01:18:18,800 --> 01:18:21,880 Let's, we ended things and I met up with her yesterday like we're 1579 01:18:22,360 --> 01:18:26,080 staying friends and we had an amazing conversation and we're 1580 01:18:28,920 --> 01:18:30,920 having a great conversation. And she said to me, she said 1581 01:18:30,920 --> 01:18:35,520 that, Pete, do you mind if I share something with you that I 1582 01:18:35,520 --> 01:18:40,760 think could be valuable? That you're like, oh, here we 1583 01:18:40,760 --> 01:18:45,040 go. First, first thought was away we 1584 01:18:45,040 --> 01:18:46,800 go. Then second thought was 1585 01:18:46,960 --> 01:18:53,080 actually, and I let fucking breathe, let me, let me lean 1586 01:18:53,080 --> 01:18:54,840 into this. And I was like, and I was like, 1587 01:18:54,880 --> 01:18:57,800 yeah, absolutely. I'm, I'm, I'm open to you, to 1588 01:18:57,800 --> 01:18:59,800 you. Winston on the inside. 1589 01:19:01,200 --> 01:19:02,600 Yeah, there was actually, there was. 1590 01:19:02,600 --> 01:19:03,760 There was a little bit like fucking. 1591 01:19:03,760 --> 01:19:07,160 I have no idea what she's going to say to me. 1592 01:19:07,160 --> 01:19:11,440 She's a super conscious woman. I really, really respect her 1593 01:19:11,600 --> 01:19:15,720 super high level, very, very intellectual, very emotionally 1594 01:19:15,720 --> 01:19:21,520 connected and and she shared something with me and I was 1595 01:19:21,520 --> 01:19:25,920 like, do you know what? Yeah, I I super appreciate you 1596 01:19:25,920 --> 01:19:26,800 saying that. Thank you. 1597 01:19:28,000 --> 01:19:30,480 There would have been a time it like. 1598 01:19:30,720 --> 01:19:32,160 I thought you were going to tell us what it was. 1599 01:19:32,240 --> 01:19:33,640 No, I'm not going to say what it is. 1600 01:19:33,680 --> 01:19:36,280 I think it's a. Little bit too much, yeah, Yeah. 1601 01:19:36,560 --> 01:19:38,120 Was it, was it like, what was it? 1602 01:19:38,120 --> 01:19:39,960 Was it a big hit? Oh, do you know, do you know 1603 01:19:39,960 --> 01:19:42,600 what I will tell you what it was it's it was it wasn't a big hit. 1604 01:19:42,600 --> 01:19:45,200 She she was said the way that you're because I was like, look, 1605 01:19:45,200 --> 01:19:47,480 I'm being honest. I'm processing some stuff to do 1606 01:19:47,480 --> 01:19:50,840 with my previous relationship. I need, I need I want to be 1607 01:19:50,840 --> 01:19:53,640 neutral going into a new relationship. 1608 01:19:53,640 --> 01:19:55,560 I actually don't feel like I'm neutral right now. 1609 01:19:55,840 --> 01:19:58,440 This is why we we stop things like I don't feel like I'm 1610 01:19:58,440 --> 01:20:01,040 neutral right now. I've still got some work to do. 1611 01:20:01,200 --> 01:20:05,560 It's unfair or new for me to give you a commitment that's 1612 01:20:05,560 --> 01:20:09,920 void, right? And she really respected that 1613 01:20:11,040 --> 01:20:13,280 and, and she said, I like the way she goes. 1614 01:20:13,480 --> 01:20:16,640 My thing for you is the way that you are processing things. 1615 01:20:16,640 --> 01:20:19,640 You're kind of looking at it like a simple guy, but what's 1616 01:20:19,640 --> 01:20:21,280 the quickest way that you can fix this? 1617 01:20:22,160 --> 01:20:24,040 What's the three-step method to fix this? 1618 01:20:24,680 --> 01:20:28,080 And she was like, I just think you should just find a modality 1619 01:20:28,080 --> 01:20:31,240 and really stick with that modality and and just do the 1620 01:20:31,240 --> 01:20:32,960 work and just continue with that. 1621 01:20:33,560 --> 01:20:34,840 Mate, thank you for sharing that. 1622 01:20:36,680 --> 01:20:38,000 Holding it back, you motherfucker. 1623 01:20:39,560 --> 01:20:43,120 I was like, that's, that's strong, man, that's strong. 1624 01:20:43,240 --> 01:20:46,680 Yeah, yeah. So and I was like, and but two 1625 01:20:46,680 --> 01:20:49,520 years ago, I would not have received that. 1626 01:20:49,640 --> 01:20:51,520 I would have been fucking guard up. 1627 01:20:51,760 --> 01:20:54,880 No, I know, right? You know, da, da, da, da, da. 1628 01:20:54,880 --> 01:20:58,080 What do you know? But actually doing a lot of 1629 01:20:58,080 --> 01:21:02,200 this, the work that we're doing as developing as guys, I can 1630 01:21:02,200 --> 01:21:06,640 hold that space when a female is is is provided. 1631 01:21:06,920 --> 01:21:11,000 Ultimately she was holding me to a higher standard, right? 1632 01:21:11,040 --> 01:21:15,280 And rather than me saying that as fuck off or like why, why you 1633 01:21:15,280 --> 01:21:17,800 trying to knock me down or whatever that looks like, I was 1634 01:21:17,800 --> 01:21:20,040 able to hold that, receive it and go, yeah. 1635 01:21:20,040 --> 01:21:22,160 Do you know what great, great advice? 1636 01:21:22,360 --> 01:21:25,320 Yeah, I think that Robert talked about that in the episode. 1637 01:21:25,320 --> 01:21:28,840 He's like this you are in the I can't remember what you said 1638 01:21:28,840 --> 01:21:32,240 about about about instant gratification world where you're 1639 01:21:32,240 --> 01:21:34,640 like a boy and you're like, you know, hang around. 1640 01:21:34,640 --> 01:21:36,640 We're looking seeking women's attention. 1641 01:21:37,280 --> 01:21:42,880 And I think that that's probably like looking back years. 1642 01:21:43,160 --> 01:21:46,040 If I'd have got that kind of feedback, I would have been so 1643 01:21:46,040 --> 01:21:49,160 wounded by that. I would have been like a like a 1644 01:21:49,160 --> 01:21:51,280 hissy fit little boy that didn't want to hear it. 1645 01:21:52,120 --> 01:21:54,640 And it makes you realise how far and I and I think, you know, 1646 01:21:54,640 --> 01:21:58,160 we've talked about the the podcast before, like we've grown 1647 01:21:58,160 --> 01:22:02,160 up substantially by going out and having these conversations 1648 01:22:02,160 --> 01:22:04,920 with the likes of Robert Gillian Schwecki. 1649 01:22:06,120 --> 01:22:07,680 What's got conscious and coupling? 1650 01:22:08,400 --> 01:22:10,800 Catherine Woodward, Thomas. Catherine Woodward Thomas Like 1651 01:22:10,800 --> 01:22:14,640 we've gone out, we've sought really high level advice from 1652 01:22:14,920 --> 01:22:19,280 the best in the world and it's actually like it's it's 1653 01:22:19,280 --> 01:22:23,480 accelerated the rate of. Of what's the word for it? 1654 01:22:23,480 --> 01:22:26,320 It's. It's like initiation really, 1655 01:22:26,320 --> 01:22:27,520 isn't it? It's like becoming, you know, 1656 01:22:27,520 --> 01:22:31,880 going from a boy to a man. And I think even even over the 1657 01:22:31,880 --> 01:22:36,240 summer, I, I got some great friends across the whole 1658 01:22:36,240 --> 01:22:40,120 spectrum of ages, like from, you know, 25 year old all the way to 1659 01:22:40,120 --> 01:22:42,440 65. I got a great network of 1660 01:22:42,440 --> 01:22:43,960 different age guys that I speak to. 1661 01:22:44,440 --> 01:22:48,000 And even like all the guys that I suppose like I can, I can sit 1662 01:22:48,000 --> 01:22:51,240 down and like, oh, that's quite a the boy like behaviour going 1663 01:22:51,240 --> 01:22:53,480 on there. You know, I can, I see and I can 1664 01:22:53,480 --> 01:22:54,640 see there. He's like, oh, that's quite. 1665 01:22:54,960 --> 01:22:59,720 And lots of guys haven't done that work where they can, they 1666 01:22:59,720 --> 01:23:02,760 can receive something like that. Because it's hard. 1667 01:23:03,080 --> 01:23:07,680 Yeah. And it's part that's part and 1668 01:23:07,680 --> 01:23:14,240 parcel of being a mature masculine man is working on your 1669 01:23:14,240 --> 01:23:19,040 unconscious triggers and your unconscious deep rooted, 1670 01:23:19,240 --> 01:23:22,600 sometimes trauma and and actually work and and doing the 1671 01:23:22,600 --> 01:23:25,760 work around that rather than being even ignoring it. 1672 01:23:25,920 --> 01:23:31,880 I got a story actually. It's just like, so one of the 1673 01:23:31,880 --> 01:23:34,720 things that I've, I've really had to work on and I'm very 1674 01:23:34,720 --> 01:23:39,720 consciously working on it is that my, my mum's, my mum's part 1675 01:23:39,720 --> 01:23:44,360 in me to leave things like she's a lever and she's like leave 1676 01:23:44,360 --> 01:23:47,680 things like doesn't like admin, financial admin. 1677 01:23:47,720 --> 01:23:49,400 Like that's, I didn't get my dad's. 1678 01:23:49,400 --> 01:23:51,560 I was like really annoyed and I was like watching my dad one day 1679 01:23:51,560 --> 01:23:54,840 and I was like, why didn't I get your traits of being like super 1680 01:23:54,960 --> 01:23:57,720 organised around things like if a bill comes through, it's paid 1681 01:23:57,720 --> 01:23:59,600 yesterday, you know, like that's my dad. 1682 01:23:59,600 --> 01:24:01,760 And I remember like leave and leave and leave and leave 1683 01:24:01,760 --> 01:24:06,160 things. And then, so we were going 1684 01:24:06,160 --> 01:24:09,200 through the airport on the way back from Dubai from the UK to 1685 01:24:09,200 --> 01:24:14,200 Dubai, London to Dubai. I left the iPad on the plane and 1686 01:24:14,440 --> 01:24:16,640 it was just what it was like. I normally do a sweep search. 1687 01:24:16,640 --> 01:24:19,840 I'm very like diligent normally. But just on this occasion the 1688 01:24:19,840 --> 01:24:21,920 ipod's still in the pocket. I can see it on fire. 1689 01:24:21,920 --> 01:24:24,560 My freaking iPod, it's going round by airport at the moment 1690 01:24:24,560 --> 01:24:26,120 and they they can't find it. Yeah, OK. 1691 01:24:26,360 --> 01:24:30,920 Anyway, But anyway, Poppy made a pot shot comment and she said, 1692 01:24:31,360 --> 01:24:34,040 Oh yeah, another time where you've been disorganised and 1693 01:24:34,040 --> 01:24:38,680 you've cost us money. And I was like, Oh my God, I 1694 01:24:38,680 --> 01:24:41,520 just, I was, it was late, you know, it's 10:00 at night. 1695 01:24:41,600 --> 01:24:45,400 I just, and I spat my dummy out and I said, Oh yeah, you're just 1696 01:24:45,400 --> 01:24:47,760 so fucking mean. Why are you always so mean? 1697 01:24:47,800 --> 01:24:51,400 Just like, why are you mean? And, and what she'd done is she 1698 01:24:51,400 --> 01:24:53,440 pushed a really big trigger for me. 1699 01:24:54,520 --> 01:24:57,760 I wasn't like proper like spit my dummy out, be really 1700 01:24:57,760 --> 01:24:59,360 horrible. I was like, that really hurt. 1701 01:25:00,120 --> 01:25:03,960 And that two years ago would have been a long time that I'd 1702 01:25:03,960 --> 01:25:07,400 have sat in that pain. And yeah, interesting. 1703 01:25:07,400 --> 01:25:10,960 Because like when I think as you become more conscious as a guy, 1704 01:25:11,000 --> 01:25:13,720 you can deal with that kind of stuff way better. 1705 01:25:13,920 --> 01:25:16,160 And I just, and I do know what I've realised now, it's just an 1706 01:25:16,160 --> 01:25:18,360 area for me to grow up. Yes. 1707 01:25:19,920 --> 01:25:22,440 You know, and that's, and I and The thing is I've been actively 1708 01:25:22,440 --> 01:25:24,600 working on this as well. I've been really, really good. 1709 01:25:25,320 --> 01:25:28,320 And it was just because I think it hurt more because I've been 1710 01:25:28,320 --> 01:25:29,920 working on it and she pushed on it. 1711 01:25:30,400 --> 01:25:31,480 Yeah. So. 1712 01:25:32,360 --> 01:25:37,120 One thing Robert talked about, and I have to admit, when he 1713 01:25:37,120 --> 01:25:42,040 talked about that in that episode, I glazed over it and 1714 01:25:42,040 --> 01:25:48,600 didn't understand it, but he said that sex and shame is a 1715 01:25:48,600 --> 01:25:54,200 real portal to our deepest work. And he, he, he said that. 1716 01:25:54,200 --> 01:25:56,720 And he, he, he said it like twice, like in the same sort of 1717 01:25:56,720 --> 01:25:58,560 sentence sort of thing. And when I really listened to 1718 01:25:58,560 --> 01:26:03,720 it, I was like, now I'm starting to understand a little bit more 1719 01:26:03,720 --> 01:26:07,640 about that. And now I've heard others who I 1720 01:26:07,640 --> 01:26:12,200 really respect in the industry, like John Wineland, for example, 1721 01:26:13,280 --> 01:26:17,840 has also talked about that. And that's, that's like, and I 1722 01:26:17,840 --> 01:26:20,800 have to admit that's one that I am delving. 1723 01:26:20,800 --> 01:26:23,640 It's one that I've started to delve into this year and just 1724 01:26:23,640 --> 01:26:27,320 fucking explore what that even means around sex and shame. 1725 01:26:27,320 --> 01:26:29,040 And that's where our deepest work is. 1726 01:26:30,400 --> 01:26:34,440 Yeah, I heard the other day, I think it's it for depth you need 1727 01:26:34,440 --> 01:26:37,240 closeness. It's like if you want to be 1728 01:26:37,400 --> 01:26:41,640 deep, if you want to be a deep person that's got a hold a lot, 1729 01:26:42,000 --> 01:26:45,520 you've got to be able to to create closeness, like closeness 1730 01:26:45,520 --> 01:26:49,400 or proximity creates depth. And I was like, that is so 1731 01:26:49,400 --> 01:26:52,480 interesting because when you are in shame, it's the last thing 1732 01:26:52,480 --> 01:26:55,120 you want to do is get close and intimate with someone 1733 01:26:55,560 --> 01:26:58,720 physically, physically. Like when Poppy and I, when 1734 01:26:58,720 --> 01:27:01,720 we're not, we're not on par together, the last thing I want 1735 01:27:01,720 --> 01:27:03,960 to do is be close with that person. 1736 01:27:04,480 --> 01:27:09,160 And if you think about sex is the ultimate, like technically 1737 01:27:09,160 --> 01:27:13,000 it is actually, I don't know if if it was on one of the ones 1738 01:27:13,000 --> 01:27:17,560 that we did or I was on a, or listen to something, but one of 1739 01:27:17,560 --> 01:27:23,840 the behaviours that shows a lack of comfort, like being 1740 01:27:23,840 --> 01:27:27,880 comfortable with your partners. You have sex, the moment you 1741 01:27:27,880 --> 01:27:33,200 have sex, you both come, both have an orgasm and then you go 1742 01:27:33,800 --> 01:27:35,680 split apart and then you go on your phones. 1743 01:27:35,760 --> 01:27:40,080 Yeah, wow. And I was like, oh, I can. 1744 01:27:40,160 --> 01:27:43,000 And like hands up. I definitely can see moments of 1745 01:27:43,240 --> 01:27:45,440 that. I was like, Oh my God. 1746 01:27:45,800 --> 01:27:49,840 And I can't remember who was it who said that, but that was 1747 01:27:49,840 --> 01:27:52,040 something I wanted. I I definitely want to explore 1748 01:27:52,040 --> 01:27:56,320 deeper because like that is definitely something that I can 1749 01:27:56,320 --> 01:28:00,760 see that as a shade in, in like in relationships I've talked 1750 01:28:00,760 --> 01:28:04,760 about with other people and my own and I was like, yeah. 1751 01:28:04,760 --> 01:28:06,200 And, and I think it is a shame thing. 1752 01:28:07,720 --> 01:28:09,960 It's like a protection thing. Yeah, I hadn't. 1753 01:28:10,440 --> 01:28:13,120 You know, like you have this ultimate moment of closeness and 1754 01:28:13,120 --> 01:28:16,160 then you want to split apart. Yeah, well, I was with the guy 1755 01:28:16,160 --> 01:28:19,000 last week in person and we spoke about this. 1756 01:28:19,440 --> 01:28:21,160 That was the wrong time to say I was with the guy here. 1757 01:28:23,000 --> 01:28:24,440 OK. Meant to get things. 1758 01:28:24,800 --> 01:28:25,320 Yeah. Yeah. 1759 01:28:25,320 --> 01:28:27,840 No, no, no. So talking about his 1760 01:28:27,840 --> 01:28:30,560 relationship and he said that because we're like, we're 1761 01:28:30,560 --> 01:28:32,400 talking about sex, talking about relationships. 1762 01:28:32,960 --> 01:28:35,880 And, and I was like, tell me about your sex life. 1763 01:28:36,080 --> 01:28:39,200 I want what's what's going on? And and that actually came about 1764 01:28:39,200 --> 01:28:43,920 and I was like, dude, that the time like after you've had sex, 1765 01:28:44,040 --> 01:28:46,760 don't, don't let it be this like one and done. 1766 01:28:46,760 --> 01:28:49,920 And then you both gel off and go somewhere else, like how that 1767 01:28:49,920 --> 01:28:55,080 has a has a full experience and really be in that moment and 1768 01:28:55,080 --> 01:28:58,120 particularly afterwards. That is the that is the time for 1769 01:28:58,120 --> 01:29:00,320 really deep and meaningful conversations. 1770 01:29:00,800 --> 01:29:04,920 That's because you're both so open and you've both been just 1771 01:29:04,920 --> 01:29:07,960 so intimate. That is the time for really deep 1772 01:29:07,960 --> 01:29:12,600 and intimate conversation. Yeah, yeah. 1773 01:29:12,600 --> 01:29:19,640 That's and and actually I heard that, I heard that in that, in 1774 01:29:19,640 --> 01:29:21,160 that conversation. There you go. 1775 01:29:21,360 --> 01:29:24,080 It's like Pete's, Pete's have you speaking to a blurry Pete on 1776 01:29:24,080 --> 01:29:26,160 the on the camera team. So have you been listening in? 1777 01:29:26,800 --> 01:29:27,960 Fuck, it doesn't look blurry. Well. 1778 01:29:27,960 --> 01:29:30,280 Someone told me the other day there's like, Oh yeah, you know, 1779 01:29:30,280 --> 01:29:32,320 it's, it takes a long time editing the podcast. 1780 01:29:32,320 --> 01:29:34,360 I'm like, don't edit it. Then just put it out raw like we 1781 01:29:34,360 --> 01:29:42,600 do, you know, it's like, so the, the, the, the closeness side. 1782 01:29:42,600 --> 01:29:45,920 And I, I've realised that when we, when we went and talked to 1783 01:29:47,840 --> 01:29:51,640 so Pete and I did a breath work session in Dubai when Pete came 1784 01:29:51,640 --> 01:29:58,120 over and she said, oh, you know that I've got this sexual 1785 01:29:58,960 --> 01:30:01,560 consciousness workshop. There's AI think it was Nick 1786 01:30:01,560 --> 01:30:03,600 Warner that was delivering it. Is that correct? 1787 01:30:03,600 --> 01:30:05,280 I. Don't know whether she was 1788 01:30:05,280 --> 01:30:06,960 delivering it. She mentioned something she 1789 01:30:06,960 --> 01:30:10,200 mentioned and someone she knew. And I think that's what actually 1790 01:30:10,200 --> 01:30:12,920 happens with guys is that you work on yourself. 1791 01:30:14,000 --> 01:30:16,400 Like I think this is like, you know, the guys listening and we 1792 01:30:16,400 --> 01:30:21,520 think that, oh, we'll work on the sex and then I'll feel 1793 01:30:21,520 --> 01:30:23,400 better and then I can work on the relationship. 1794 01:30:23,400 --> 01:30:26,080 And it's, it's a kind of bullshit way of thinking about 1795 01:30:26,080 --> 01:30:27,880 it really. It's like, Oh yeah, we'll just 1796 01:30:27,880 --> 01:30:30,840 get the sex right. Have a more, have a bit more sex 1797 01:30:31,040 --> 01:30:34,560 and then I'll feel better. So I'll treat her better and 1798 01:30:34,560 --> 01:30:37,240 actually even like that's the kind of nice guy pattern, if you 1799 01:30:37,240 --> 01:30:40,400 think about that is like, oh, I'll be super nice. 1800 01:30:40,400 --> 01:30:43,120 So I get more sex, so I'll feel better and the relationship will 1801 01:30:43,120 --> 01:30:45,720 be better. That isn't a kind of a nice guy. 1802 01:30:47,480 --> 01:30:49,320 What's the word algorithm? Well. 1803 01:30:49,320 --> 01:30:51,400 Actually, it's kind of one of the Covert Contracts. 1804 01:30:51,520 --> 01:30:54,720 Yeah. Whereas actually looking back, 1805 01:30:54,720 --> 01:30:59,040 it's no, I will work on myself. I will get myself right. 1806 01:30:59,160 --> 01:31:03,400 I won't worship sex. I will lead in the relationship. 1807 01:31:03,840 --> 01:31:07,440 I will be the giver of love instead of wanting it all the 1808 01:31:07,440 --> 01:31:12,120 time. I will lead like the man and I 1809 01:31:12,120 --> 01:31:15,160 will naturally fill my own cup up with around other man. 1810 01:31:15,400 --> 01:31:20,160 So I am left being wanted and that's the first step. 1811 01:31:20,200 --> 01:31:24,160 And when you've achieved that, that's when you'll your sex life 1812 01:31:24,160 --> 01:31:26,600 will change. That's when you'll see 1813 01:31:26,600 --> 01:31:28,800 significant change. And I think that that is the 1814 01:31:28,800 --> 01:31:33,760 biggest shift in the thinking that I had, you know, since that 1815 01:31:33,760 --> 01:31:38,280 podcast that we did with Robert. Yeah, and Robert, so he talks 1816 01:31:38,280 --> 01:31:43,080 about Covert Contracts. So the three Covert contracts, 1817 01:31:44,120 --> 01:31:47,280 the what's the number one? I'll be liked and loved if I'm a 1818 01:31:47,280 --> 01:31:50,520 good guy. Women want to have sex with me 1819 01:31:51,640 --> 01:31:58,760 if I'm a good guy. Yeah, so, so I, I think I run 1820 01:31:58,760 --> 01:32:02,240 that same program. I was so afraid. 1821 01:32:02,280 --> 01:32:07,120 I, I think that's what stopped me from having conflict in my 1822 01:32:07,120 --> 01:32:09,520 business relationships. My staff with my, with my 1823 01:32:09,520 --> 01:32:12,760 partners are so afraid of being in conflict. 1824 01:32:13,080 --> 01:32:14,720 That's how that manifested for me. 1825 01:32:14,720 --> 01:32:17,720 I was just afraid of conflict. I didn't want to have conflict. 1826 01:32:17,960 --> 01:32:20,480 I struggled with it. I just wanted to be nice and I 1827 01:32:20,480 --> 01:32:24,080 just wanted to, and then that's what I thought would get me 1828 01:32:24,080 --> 01:32:25,400 liked. Yeah. 1829 01:32:25,720 --> 01:32:30,320 And this goes back to boundaries is that you can should have 1830 01:32:30,320 --> 01:32:37,680 boundaries you you can say no. Yeah, I, I think I've just been 1831 01:32:38,160 --> 01:32:40,800 like over the last two years, I've just got saying I'm not OK 1832 01:32:40,800 --> 01:32:43,800 with that. That's kind of my, that's what 1833 01:32:43,800 --> 01:32:45,360 I, I don't know if I'm OK with that. 1834 01:32:46,560 --> 01:32:48,480 Like, you know, Pete knows me really well. 1835 01:32:48,480 --> 01:32:51,600 I, if it's something I've, I've got on my mind, like even just 1836 01:32:51,600 --> 01:32:53,360 even before the podcast, I'll say, I'll say it. 1837 01:32:53,360 --> 01:32:54,680 I'm like, this is what's going on for me. 1838 01:32:55,480 --> 01:33:00,040 And I think that's where previous to all of this work, I 1839 01:33:00,040 --> 01:33:02,240 would not have said that. I would have just ruminated on 1840 01:33:02,240 --> 01:33:05,720 it and I probably talked to someone else who had no, I, I 1841 01:33:05,720 --> 01:33:07,920 would probably have talked to Poppy about the same problem I 1842 01:33:07,920 --> 01:33:10,080 was just talking to you about directly. 1843 01:33:10,760 --> 01:33:13,080 And Poppy's not going to, she's probably going to fuel it, you 1844 01:33:13,080 --> 01:33:16,120 know, like give her opinion on it or give a different opinion 1845 01:33:16,120 --> 01:33:17,880 on it. And actually, that's something 1846 01:33:17,880 --> 01:33:21,120 I've, I've noticed in my personal leadership. 1847 01:33:21,120 --> 01:33:22,960 I was like, if I've got a problem, instead of reading 1848 01:33:22,960 --> 01:33:26,640 about it, I go to someone. I'm not happy about this and I'm 1849 01:33:26,640 --> 01:33:30,480 resolve it way quicker than in the past where I've just hold it 1850 01:33:30,480 --> 01:33:32,720 in. Yeah, and think about it, 1851 01:33:32,720 --> 01:33:34,720 overthink about it, overanalyze it. 1852 01:33:35,040 --> 01:33:38,440 Come up with 16 different scenarios in your head. 1853 01:33:39,880 --> 01:33:41,640 You've got. The conversation with the 1854 01:33:41,640 --> 01:33:44,440 source. It was like, I actually said to 1855 01:33:44,440 --> 01:33:45,880 speak before. I was like, am I overthinking 1856 01:33:45,880 --> 01:33:47,000 this? And you're like, yeah, a little 1857 01:33:47,000 --> 01:33:51,160 bit. Yeah, absolutely. 1858 01:33:51,200 --> 01:33:57,280 And it's so covert contract #2 if I meet your needs without me 1859 01:33:57,280 --> 01:34:00,160 asking, then you'll meet mine without me asking. 1860 01:34:00,640 --> 01:34:03,960 Yeah. Read my mind and then give me 1861 01:34:03,960 --> 01:34:07,240 something in return. Yeah, I think I honestly, this 1862 01:34:07,240 --> 01:34:09,600 is like where I'm at in my relationship at the moment. 1863 01:34:09,600 --> 01:34:13,920 Like, like, in a good way and like, like working through this. 1864 01:34:13,920 --> 01:34:18,560 We've just got married. I think that when we got married 1865 01:34:18,560 --> 01:34:22,400 and when we like afterwards, like when Poppy and I got 1866 01:34:22,400 --> 01:34:24,920 married afterwards, Poppy had a reel down. 1867 01:34:24,920 --> 01:34:27,680 Like she was just like lost because that was her North Star 1868 01:34:27,680 --> 01:34:33,120 in the sky for such a long time. And we were at home and not 1869 01:34:33,120 --> 01:34:35,280 ashamed to say this. It was a hard time. 1870 01:34:35,280 --> 01:34:37,840 We'd come back and let someone wrecked our house and we'd like 1871 01:34:37,840 --> 01:34:40,720 they, the summer was tough for all different reasons. 1872 01:34:41,320 --> 01:34:46,280 And they wouldn't like my sexual needs were just not prioritised 1873 01:34:46,320 --> 01:34:48,560 at all by myself or by here. There was. 1874 01:34:48,800 --> 01:34:50,360 And I was like, there's still needs. 1875 01:34:50,360 --> 01:34:52,560 And I was like, this is what I was navigating. 1876 01:34:53,200 --> 01:34:55,840 I was like, well, actually, that was the covert contract. 1877 01:34:55,840 --> 01:34:59,320 It's like in my head, it was like, no, you should want to 1878 01:34:59,520 --> 01:35:02,960 have sex with me. And it was actually resolved and 1879 01:35:02,960 --> 01:35:06,800 we're talking one day and she's like, and she said like we, we 1880 01:35:06,800 --> 01:35:10,040 wrote down our goals, like what what we want to happen. 1881 01:35:10,040 --> 01:35:13,280 And and then one of the things that she wrote down is like, I 1882 01:35:13,280 --> 01:35:17,280 want to want Ben more. And I that even just seeing that 1883 01:35:17,440 --> 01:35:20,840 for me was like, that's a really positive thing. 1884 01:35:21,960 --> 01:35:24,200 And that was really because, like, I think especially for 1885 01:35:24,280 --> 01:35:27,520 when it comes to needs is like, when do you sit down with your 1886 01:35:27,520 --> 01:35:28,920 partner and say, these are my needs? 1887 01:35:28,920 --> 01:35:31,200 Like have you have you done it since like, actually this is a 1888 01:35:31,200 --> 01:35:35,160 good question since that. And like, as you've been dating, 1889 01:35:35,200 --> 01:35:38,560 have you talked about your needs more with with people? 1890 01:35:38,680 --> 01:35:40,680 Yes. Like how do you do it? 1891 01:35:40,680 --> 01:35:42,440 Go on, how do you excite? I think a lot of guys listening, 1892 01:35:42,440 --> 01:35:45,080 like how did you even have that conversation while dating? 1893 01:35:45,080 --> 01:35:47,320 Oh. Such a fun conversation to have 1894 01:35:48,280 --> 01:35:52,240 it just simply as like, have you ever, have you ever thought 1895 01:35:52,240 --> 01:35:54,360 about like your wants and needs in a relationship? 1896 01:35:55,360 --> 01:35:59,240 And then and then they'll respond and like, and then it 1897 01:35:59,240 --> 01:36:00,640 just stems from there. So, oh, cool. 1898 01:36:00,640 --> 01:36:02,040 Like what? What does that look like? 1899 01:36:02,040 --> 01:36:05,800 I'm super interested. And some something like I've had 1900 01:36:05,800 --> 01:36:09,320 this, that sometimes it's like with a woman, they're like, 1901 01:36:09,320 --> 01:36:10,960 yeah, this, this, this, this, this. 1902 01:36:11,160 --> 01:36:14,080 Other times it's some things. And then I'd actually like to 1903 01:36:14,080 --> 01:36:17,720 leave some to be discovered during during a dating process. 1904 01:36:17,720 --> 01:36:21,440 I'm like, hey, absolutely cool, but I like I am finding the more 1905 01:36:21,720 --> 01:36:23,960 and my like wants and needs have apartment. 1906 01:36:24,000 --> 01:36:27,480 They absolutely evolve. Like I discover things about 1907 01:36:27,480 --> 01:36:31,200 myself whilst getting into relationships and dating and and 1908 01:36:31,200 --> 01:36:33,760 well, even when I'm on my own, I'm like, oh, that's really 1909 01:36:33,760 --> 01:36:36,040 fucking important to me. Now. 1910 01:36:36,080 --> 01:36:39,920 I kind of like add that to my list so to speak, but then but 1911 01:36:39,920 --> 01:36:46,880 like talking about it and not just like once actively 1912 01:36:46,880 --> 01:36:49,600 frequently talking about it. Yeah, it's. 1913 01:36:50,000 --> 01:36:53,240 As a as a, as a conversation, not a direction, not a 1914 01:36:53,240 --> 01:36:54,800 direction. Hey, this is what I fucking 1915 01:36:54,800 --> 01:36:57,280 need. It's like, no, that's between 1916 01:36:57,280 --> 01:36:59,200 us. Like how can we cultivate this 1917 01:36:59,200 --> 01:37:01,000 relationship by both understanding our wants and 1918 01:37:01,000 --> 01:37:04,200 needs? Yeah, I don't think I'm doing 1919 01:37:04,200 --> 01:37:06,320 enough of that at the moment like that. 1920 01:37:06,320 --> 01:37:09,080 This is like a just talk about it now that this is a real. 1921 01:37:09,720 --> 01:37:13,160 But that's, that's what, that's what that's literally, you know, 1922 01:37:13,240 --> 01:37:16,280 if I meet your needs without me asking, then you'll meet me 1923 01:37:16,400 --> 01:37:19,600 because then that's like, well, I told you once like a year ago, 1924 01:37:19,600 --> 01:37:22,360 why have you not remembered? Yeah. 1925 01:37:22,360 --> 01:37:25,680 Oh, yeah. It's like, it's like, why? 1926 01:37:25,680 --> 01:37:27,160 Why am I not your biggest priority? 1927 01:37:27,760 --> 01:37:31,160 Yeah, it's like it's quite funny because we were we were talking 1928 01:37:31,160 --> 01:37:37,240 about this on the way to as I drove Poppy to meet Rach, he and 1929 01:37:37,240 --> 01:37:41,840 his friend and they may the we were talking about needs on the 1930 01:37:41,840 --> 01:37:43,160 way and like actually, do you know what? 1931 01:37:43,160 --> 01:37:45,520 And I was like, should we get a massage table? 1932 01:37:45,880 --> 01:37:48,640 Because like we both like massage. 1933 01:37:48,640 --> 01:37:50,880 We actually get couples massage. People come around to the house 1934 01:37:50,880 --> 01:37:54,400 and what's amazing in Dubai for around 60 lbs you can get a 1935 01:37:54,640 --> 01:37:57,040 massage, a couples massage and it's fucking great. 1936 01:37:57,040 --> 01:38:00,600 It's a really good massage. 2 two people come around the 1937 01:38:00,600 --> 01:38:04,040 house, beds, everything like that amazing 60 lbs which is 1938 01:38:04,280 --> 01:38:10,040 really, really good. And the I was like, should we 1939 01:38:10,040 --> 01:38:12,000 get a massage table? Because she was like, oh, I've 1940 01:38:12,000 --> 01:38:14,000 got this problem, my neck. And like, you know, should I go 1941 01:38:14,000 --> 01:38:15,120 to a physio? Should go to a car? 1942 01:38:15,120 --> 01:38:18,800 But I was like, yeah, you can go to all of them, but also why 1943 01:38:18,800 --> 01:38:20,480 don't I just like give you a proper massage? 1944 01:38:20,480 --> 01:38:21,960 And I was like, hang on a second. 1945 01:38:21,960 --> 01:38:24,080 Do you reckon we get a massage table? 1946 01:38:24,080 --> 01:38:28,120 Because one of my needs is physical touch, like and like 1947 01:38:28,120 --> 01:38:31,040 this is somewhere where you can start with this guys, if you're 1948 01:38:31,040 --> 01:38:33,240 listening to this as well, is love languages. 1949 01:38:34,240 --> 01:38:38,920 And two different guys I spoke to over the summer, one of the 1950 01:38:38,920 --> 01:38:42,120 biggest fuck ups they were making was they just were 1951 01:38:42,120 --> 01:38:43,880 missing their partners love language. 1952 01:38:43,960 --> 01:38:48,360 And so like, yes, absolutely have that conversation and 1953 01:38:48,360 --> 01:38:50,400 assert your needs. One of the things that you 1954 01:38:50,400 --> 01:38:52,920 actually need to make sure that your partner understands is how 1955 01:38:52,920 --> 01:38:56,520 you give and receive love. And for me, it's physical mine, 1956 01:38:56,520 --> 01:38:59,280 mine's physical touch and it's quality. 1957 01:38:59,280 --> 01:39:01,520 Oh, it's not quality time. It's more words of affirmation. 1958 01:39:02,040 --> 01:39:04,520 Like that means a lot to me. Words of affirmation and 1959 01:39:04,520 --> 01:39:08,560 physical touch and And I remember like talking to 1960 01:39:08,560 --> 01:39:11,480 different guys over the summer like yeah, but I know she she 1961 01:39:11,480 --> 01:39:13,960 says I don't love her, but I do all these other things for. 1962 01:39:14,280 --> 01:39:15,440 Her. I buy her flowers. 1963 01:39:15,480 --> 01:39:20,160 I buy her handbags. Yeah, like she just wants this, 1964 01:39:20,160 --> 01:39:21,880 you know, this other thing. Yeah. 1965 01:39:22,160 --> 01:39:25,520 So if you actually just go into Google and write in the five 1966 01:39:25,520 --> 01:39:28,400 love languages assessment, it's a quick, it's an easy win for 1967 01:39:28,400 --> 01:39:30,960 you guys as well. Yeah, I because I know mine. 1968 01:39:31,080 --> 01:39:36,360 I tell, I tell women I'm like, by the way, and it's great 1969 01:39:36,360 --> 01:39:38,640 conversations like have you done the love love language test? 1970 01:39:39,040 --> 01:39:40,840 Yes or no? And then we can talk about it. 1971 01:39:41,000 --> 01:39:43,000 Oh, here's mine, by the way, just so you know, you do this 1972 01:39:43,000 --> 01:39:44,160 for me. I'm put you in your hands. 1973 01:39:44,480 --> 01:39:48,640 Yeah, it's taken a blowjob. That's it. 1974 01:39:49,320 --> 01:39:51,480 That's kind of language. That's it. 1975 01:39:52,600 --> 01:39:55,400 Yeah, that's quite funny. But I. 1976 01:39:55,600 --> 01:39:58,960 But seriously, I think that I think that that was a big, big 1977 01:39:59,120 --> 01:40:03,320 insight for me about, you know, and I think this is what's been 1978 01:40:03,320 --> 01:40:04,720 nice about the podcast as well. It's like. 1979 01:40:05,480 --> 01:40:07,160 I'm still working through a lot of these stuff. 1980 01:40:07,160 --> 01:40:11,400 Like I consider the start of this, this kind of conversation 1981 01:40:11,400 --> 01:40:14,360 today of like every time I read that book, there's there's a 1982 01:40:14,360 --> 01:40:16,160 different bit I'm at. I'm always like, oh, there's 1983 01:40:16,160 --> 01:40:18,560 another level to this go on. Then what's the COVID contract 1984 01:40:18,560 --> 01:40:22,640 #3? #3 if I do everything right then 1985 01:40:22,640 --> 01:40:25,200 I'll have a smooth problem free life. 1986 01:40:25,520 --> 01:40:27,560 Oh my God. I don't hurt people. 1987 01:40:28,000 --> 01:40:32,720 My my wife won't get mad. My business won't fail, right? 1988 01:40:33,640 --> 01:40:38,360 My friends will always like me. Oh my God, man, I don't even 1989 01:40:38,400 --> 01:40:39,640 know where to start with this one. 1990 01:40:40,000 --> 01:40:44,040 It's actually me being I'm very good with this one. 1991 01:40:44,040 --> 01:40:47,360 That's not one I ascribe to right now. 1992 01:40:47,360 --> 01:40:50,560 Might be in the future. I did actually think about it 1993 01:40:50,560 --> 01:40:51,960 the other day. I was like, Oh my God, I thought 1994 01:40:51,960 --> 01:40:54,640 I was doing everything right here, you know, And it's like, 1995 01:40:54,640 --> 01:41:00,960 and I'm still getting this, this issue, but I think this is kind 1996 01:41:00,960 --> 01:41:05,000 of the perfectionist tendency of guys, you know, it's like, all 1997 01:41:05,000 --> 01:41:09,160 right, if I get if I get the six pack ABS, if I've got the big 1998 01:41:09,160 --> 01:41:12,080 job, if I've got all the things right, my life's going to be 1999 01:41:12,080 --> 01:41:14,840 happy forever. And then there's this big pit 2000 01:41:14,840 --> 01:41:17,560 and like they're missing something and. 2001 01:41:18,440 --> 01:41:21,960 Yeah, or like having having that belief, but then when the 2002 01:41:21,960 --> 01:41:28,400 inevitable challenge comes, the punch in the gut, the the wife's 2003 01:41:28,400 --> 01:41:32,240 pissed off or the sales don't come in that month for the 2004 01:41:32,240 --> 01:41:37,440 business or you get fired when then it's like it's fucking the 2005 01:41:37,440 --> 01:41:40,480 world's over. If you're if you have that 2006 01:41:40,480 --> 01:41:43,480 belief that because you're doing everything right, then the world 2007 01:41:43,480 --> 01:41:44,760 should be swimmingly. It's not. 2008 01:41:44,760 --> 01:41:48,320 And then and then actually this does link very nicely to one of 2009 01:41:48,320 --> 01:41:50,560 the things I heard again is like you're going to fuck up your 2010 01:41:50,560 --> 01:41:51,600 kids. He's like, no matter what, 2011 01:41:51,600 --> 01:41:52,600 you're going to fuck up your kids. 2012 01:41:53,120 --> 01:41:55,520 And actually, this is on that point. 2013 01:41:56,400 --> 01:41:59,960 So Brenny Brown famously said if you are a perfect parent, you 2014 01:41:59,960 --> 01:42:02,520 fuck up your kids. And here's why they don't get to 2015 01:42:02,520 --> 01:42:06,680 learn to deal with chaos. And like, my upbringing was 2016 01:42:07,240 --> 01:42:10,920 chaos, like chaos, like all sorts of things happened. 2017 01:42:10,920 --> 01:42:14,680 And like, as I do more and more deep work, I learn more and 2018 01:42:14,680 --> 01:42:17,280 more, more conversations with my mum, more conversation with my 2019 01:42:17,280 --> 01:42:19,560 dad. I, I learned just more and more 2020 01:42:19,560 --> 01:42:21,520 about my past. I'm like, Oh my gosh, Oh my 2021 01:42:21,520 --> 01:42:23,560 gosh. And I'm always like, wow, there 2022 01:42:23,560 --> 01:42:26,360 was so much for me to deal with as a growing boy. 2023 01:42:27,440 --> 01:42:32,200 And I as an adult, I'm very, very good at dealing with, with 2024 01:42:32,200 --> 01:42:33,640 life. Like I'm very, very good at 2025 01:42:33,640 --> 01:42:35,480 that. I'm very good at navigating hard 2026 01:42:35,480 --> 01:42:38,320 conversations, difficult situations, emotional things. 2027 01:42:38,720 --> 01:42:43,720 I'm good, I'm very solid. And it's because I had imperfect 2028 01:42:43,720 --> 01:42:45,920 parents. They were amazing parents. 2029 01:42:45,920 --> 01:42:48,080 They were absolutely did the absolute best. 2030 01:42:48,480 --> 01:42:51,360 And there was chaos. And actually that's what made me 2031 01:42:51,360 --> 01:42:53,720 a really, really, you know, really, really like good at 2032 01:42:53,720 --> 01:42:57,920 dealing with chaos. And this is he said this and I 2033 01:42:57,920 --> 01:43:01,040 and I heard it differently. Maybe because I where I'm at 2034 01:43:01,040 --> 01:43:05,080 with parenting and the girls a bit a bit more articulate now is 2035 01:43:05,080 --> 01:43:10,000 that I'm I give my kids so much of a different at bringing to 2036 01:43:10,000 --> 01:43:14,360 what I had and it was quite funny hearing it's like you're 2037 01:43:14,360 --> 01:43:18,400 going to fuck up your kids. And I was like, Oh no, I was 2038 01:43:18,400 --> 01:43:23,040 like, no matter what, but I sat with a buddy at home and he his 2039 01:43:23,040 --> 01:43:26,920 biggest wound is that he won't be as great as his dad. 2040 01:43:27,640 --> 01:43:31,320 That's his that's his wound. His dad was the perfect dad, 2041 01:43:31,440 --> 01:43:36,240 amazing dad, and for him to live up to that is just an 2042 01:43:36,240 --> 01:43:40,080 insurmountable. So even then, so his his. 2043 01:43:40,200 --> 01:43:41,280 Dad. His dad. 2044 01:43:41,280 --> 01:43:43,720 His dad fucked him up by being perfect. 2045 01:43:43,720 --> 01:43:47,000 By being a great dad And like that's his wound and it's just 2046 01:43:47,000 --> 01:43:49,760 the way he sees it. Like honestly, you know, if like 2047 01:43:49,760 --> 01:43:53,520 this guy is, he's a great dad. Everything that he could have 2048 01:43:53,520 --> 01:43:56,720 done, he's done. And the wound that his son has 2049 01:43:56,840 --> 01:43:58,800 is I'm not going to be as good as my dad. 2050 01:43:59,480 --> 01:44:01,720 And like that for me, I was like sitting there listening to it. 2051 01:44:01,720 --> 01:44:03,000 I was like, holy shit. Yeah. 2052 01:44:03,280 --> 01:44:05,800 And and that when Robert said that on the podcast, it 2053 01:44:05,800 --> 01:44:09,160 instantly made me think of that. And it instinct made me think of 2054 01:44:09,160 --> 01:44:12,840 my parenting as like, I'm just not going to go for perfect. 2055 01:44:12,840 --> 01:44:14,560 I'm just going to go for a fantastic dad. 2056 01:44:14,560 --> 01:44:17,160 I just want to be a great dad. And I'm, I'm going to make 2057 01:44:17,160 --> 01:44:19,160 mistakes. And like, that was just a yeah, 2058 01:44:19,160 --> 01:44:20,920 that really brought that home for me. 2059 01:44:21,240 --> 01:44:23,360 Yeah, yeah. I've got something written down 2060 01:44:23,360 --> 01:44:30,240 here that towards the end of the podcast, this, this came out and 2061 01:44:31,640 --> 01:44:34,280 life has its way of working itself out. 2062 01:44:34,800 --> 01:44:38,680 Take risks or don't take risks. It's a work out. 2063 01:44:39,160 --> 01:44:43,560 But the difference is whether it works out to a logical scale, a 2064 01:44:43,560 --> 01:44:46,920 10X scale or not. And I like that. 2065 01:44:46,920 --> 01:44:50,600 I like that wasn't Robert's words, but it was like just he 2066 01:44:50,600 --> 01:44:52,760 was alluding to these things that life does have it. 2067 01:44:52,920 --> 01:44:55,000 It has its way of working itself out. 2068 01:44:55,400 --> 01:44:59,480 But it is entirely up to you whether you take the ballsy 2069 01:44:59,480 --> 01:45:03,960 route, the illogical route, the route B at the riskier route, or 2070 01:45:03,960 --> 01:45:08,360 whether you don't. Yeah, but he he also said about 2071 01:45:08,640 --> 01:45:12,480 nice guys are greater being sorry, greater being average, 2072 01:45:12,480 --> 01:45:18,640 but not greater being great like, like and I and I think 2073 01:45:18,640 --> 01:45:22,000 that's what the the real thing for me was like. 2074 01:45:22,000 --> 01:45:23,840 I don't want to be an average leader. 2075 01:45:23,840 --> 01:45:26,000 I want to be exceptional. I've like, it's always been what 2076 01:45:26,000 --> 01:45:29,080 I've, I pride myself on. I want to be an exceptional 2077 01:45:29,080 --> 01:45:31,680 leader. I've, I really want to be known 2078 01:45:31,680 --> 01:45:34,360 for being exceptional. I don't want to be average. 2079 01:45:34,400 --> 01:45:37,480 And that's not a, like a, a shame based fear of being 2080 01:45:37,480 --> 01:45:39,480 average, like, oh, being average is not on earth. 2081 01:45:39,480 --> 01:45:43,360 I'm like, no, I just want to be recognised by myself by other 2082 01:45:43,360 --> 01:45:46,840 people as exceptional. And actually, if you've got 2083 01:45:46,840 --> 01:45:50,120 those three nice guy traits, those covert contracts going on, 2084 01:45:50,560 --> 01:45:52,640 you haven't done your work. You still you're going to be 2085 01:45:52,640 --> 01:45:54,960 average because there's so many things that you won't be able to 2086 01:45:54,960 --> 01:45:58,600 deal with. Yeah, and, and just as we talked 2087 01:45:58,600 --> 01:46:01,760 about earlier on in the pod about guys looking for 2088 01:46:01,760 --> 01:46:04,720 something, searching for something and needing to be in a 2089 01:46:04,720 --> 01:46:08,760 group, A tribe, like one of the biggest bits of advice that I 2090 01:46:08,760 --> 01:46:12,320 can give in joining a group is that sometimes there can be a 2091 01:46:12,320 --> 01:46:15,280 fear of, well, all the guys in that group, they all know each 2092 01:46:15,280 --> 01:46:16,720 other. They're all brothers already. 2093 01:46:16,720 --> 01:46:19,360 And I'm going to come in as an outsider and not know anyone 2094 01:46:19,960 --> 01:46:23,120 that is. But I can tell you it's a bunch 2095 01:46:23,120 --> 01:46:27,400 of rubbish because all the guys in the group, they all started 2096 01:46:27,400 --> 01:46:31,840 by not being in the group and they've joined 1 by 1 by 1 by 1. 2097 01:46:32,280 --> 01:46:37,760 I I actually disagree unless it's properly LED. 2098 01:46:38,240 --> 01:46:40,240 Yes, Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I. 2099 01:46:40,280 --> 01:46:42,400 Think, I think I've been to CrossFit gyms and I'm like, 2100 01:46:42,400 --> 01:46:44,640 there's a clique here because it's run by. 2101 01:46:46,000 --> 01:46:48,640 I'm I'm specifically talking about the awakened man. 2102 01:46:48,680 --> 01:46:51,440 Yeah. Oh, like the best, the best, you 2103 01:46:51,440 --> 01:46:54,520 know, that is like an instant, you know, you're in and it's 2104 01:46:54,520 --> 01:46:56,440 like you're in. But what I'm talking about with 2105 01:46:56,440 --> 01:47:00,200 a lot of guys go into groups is that they don't have the 2106 01:47:00,200 --> 01:47:02,760 conscious leadership or the leadership at all. 2107 01:47:03,240 --> 01:47:07,560 And a part of the leaders role is to get people to easily come 2108 01:47:07,560 --> 01:47:09,560 into the group. That's what you know, it's 2109 01:47:09,560 --> 01:47:11,760 sovereign energy. It's, it's, it's like the king 2110 01:47:11,760 --> 01:47:14,720 is like he's all about bringing relationships together. 2111 01:47:15,440 --> 01:47:17,840 And I think that that's when you, when you go into a group 2112 01:47:17,840 --> 01:47:21,400 and it's not properly LED, you will experience that. 2113 01:47:21,400 --> 01:47:23,760 So I think you need to check in like if you've been going to a 2114 01:47:23,760 --> 01:47:26,400 group and you feel like you've been an outsider for a while, 2115 01:47:26,880 --> 01:47:29,760 you need to think yourself like, actually, how is this being LED? 2116 01:47:29,760 --> 01:47:34,120 It's the leaders role to help you find an easy path into the 2117 01:47:34,120 --> 01:47:37,960 group like that. Like how, how many hours did we 2118 01:47:37,960 --> 01:47:41,800 put into working out the best way to bring guys into the group 2119 01:47:41,800 --> 01:47:44,080 and like on board them the experience it's. 2120 01:47:44,080 --> 01:47:47,120 Like still now, still now there's like even recently I 2121 01:47:47,120 --> 01:47:50,160 must have spent probably spent 10 hours in the last month 2122 01:47:50,680 --> 01:47:53,200 improving that process. Yeah. 2123 01:47:53,240 --> 01:47:55,440 And and that's that's so important. 2124 01:47:56,960 --> 01:48:01,200 I think, I think that's the the I think that's what you said in 2125 01:48:01,200 --> 01:48:05,880 the in the in the podcast, is that when you're looking for a 2126 01:48:05,880 --> 01:48:08,720 group, you're ideally looking not just for any group. 2127 01:48:08,720 --> 01:48:10,280 You're looking for a group of conscious men. 2128 01:48:10,280 --> 01:48:14,480 And I think that's it's really difficult as a guy to understand 2129 01:48:14,480 --> 01:48:18,000 what that is until you're in it and really going. 2130 01:48:18,240 --> 01:48:22,280 Is this how they all talk? Oh my God, this is like because 2131 01:48:22,360 --> 01:48:27,680 it's like AII think that if you were to put a hot seat Thursday 2132 01:48:27,680 --> 01:48:31,680 call live onto Facebook and people heard what was going on 2133 01:48:31,680 --> 01:48:34,400 in that room, they would be like, what the fuck? 2134 01:48:35,400 --> 01:48:38,360 It's just like that's what, but it's true, isn't it? 2135 01:48:38,360 --> 01:48:39,840 Like what goes on in those calls? 2136 01:48:39,840 --> 01:48:43,640 You're like, Oh my God, did that actually really just happen? 2137 01:48:43,640 --> 01:48:45,080 Like is that what just got talked about? 2138 01:48:45,080 --> 01:48:49,800 And then, you know, there's like there's times where like we had 2139 01:48:49,800 --> 01:48:54,120 guys and have guys is that guys would just come on and say, 2140 01:48:54,120 --> 01:48:58,000 listen, I I and they just all of a sudden start crying and like 2141 01:48:58,000 --> 01:49:00,120 just talk about how hard things are. 2142 01:49:00,800 --> 01:49:04,280 The guys would just like literally be like 1520 guys sat 2143 01:49:04,280 --> 01:49:07,960 on the call just waiting for a guy to to clear his shit out. 2144 01:49:07,960 --> 01:49:11,640 And sometimes you're going to get a peek saying step it up. 2145 01:49:11,640 --> 01:49:15,320 But there's other times where because these guys don't get 2146 01:49:15,320 --> 01:49:18,160 super triggered and worried and, you know, insure themselves when 2147 01:49:18,160 --> 01:49:21,840 a guy's going through his shit, he's allowed to process it. 2148 01:49:21,840 --> 01:49:24,440 And I think that was the, and this is something we talked 2149 01:49:24,440 --> 01:49:28,480 about with Robert is that over the last two years, especially 2150 01:49:28,480 --> 01:49:33,680 in awake command, the amount of direct strategic coaching that 2151 01:49:33,680 --> 01:49:36,200 went on was minimal. I don't know what, what's going 2152 01:49:36,200 --> 01:49:37,400 on now. You know, the same time it's 2153 01:49:37,400 --> 01:49:40,600 like, but compared to other programmes, you've probably been 2154 01:49:40,600 --> 01:49:43,840 an MP. The amount of strategic work is 2155 01:49:43,840 --> 01:49:47,880 not, it's not like it's there's, there is, it's there, but it's 2156 01:49:47,880 --> 01:49:51,360 not as much as perhaps like a real paint by numbers course. 2157 01:49:51,640 --> 01:49:55,240 However, I reckon the ascension of the man is is exponentially 2158 01:49:55,240 --> 01:49:57,280 bigger. Yeah, absolutely, because we 2159 01:49:57,280 --> 01:49:59,560 work on the South. Yeah, because, and this is 2160 01:49:59,560 --> 01:50:02,200 something I've I'm actually where I'm at in my career at the 2161 01:50:02,200 --> 01:50:04,200 moment. Like really I was like, do you 2162 01:50:04,200 --> 01:50:06,960 need the strategy or the paint by numbers or do you just need 2163 01:50:06,960 --> 01:50:10,240 to become a much, much better leader of yourself and the 2164 01:50:10,240 --> 01:50:11,040 people around you? And it's. 2165 01:50:11,560 --> 01:50:14,000 All about The Who. Yeah, like who you're being. 2166 01:50:14,160 --> 01:50:17,000 And there was a big movement in the coaching world about being 2167 01:50:17,040 --> 01:50:19,720 and it. And I don't know if people just 2168 01:50:19,720 --> 01:50:21,240 jumped on it because of Steve Hardison. 2169 01:50:21,240 --> 01:50:23,680 And he was a big, big player in the coaching world. 2170 01:50:24,680 --> 01:50:29,440 But what I think is like a big, big shift is that what happens 2171 01:50:29,440 --> 01:50:35,800 in a group like that is you become a massively different man 2172 01:50:35,800 --> 01:50:38,320 to who you were. Like I think a lot of guys come 2173 01:50:38,320 --> 01:50:40,680 into man's work and they're a shadow of themselves. 2174 01:50:41,280 --> 01:50:45,600 They are literally, they're living like you've said it many 2175 01:50:45,600 --> 01:50:47,080 times. They're living at a level 5 when 2176 01:50:47,080 --> 01:50:51,240 they know that they've got a level 10 in there and the that 2177 01:50:51,240 --> 01:50:53,920 work is the work to get them to a level 10. 2178 01:50:54,520 --> 01:50:58,000 Yeah, yeah, it was. Had a guy come on a couple of 2179 01:50:58,000 --> 01:51:03,920 weeks ago, noon to the program, and I pretty forcefully, to be 2180 01:51:03,920 --> 01:51:09,040 fucking honest, got him to share something because I knew I knew 2181 01:51:09,040 --> 01:51:11,400 I needed to get. He needed it off his chest and I 2182 01:51:11,400 --> 01:51:13,360 forced him out of it in front of all the guys. 2183 01:51:14,200 --> 01:51:16,560 It was ballsy on my behalf, but I kind of knew that it was going 2184 01:51:16,560 --> 01:51:19,360 to help him. And fuck, you can see the guy's 2185 01:51:19,360 --> 01:51:22,760 shoulders drop. And he said after he said, after 2186 01:51:22,760 --> 01:51:24,120 he said in front of all the guys. 2187 01:51:24,120 --> 01:51:27,240 I'm, you know, I'm probably being judged quite a lot now. 2188 01:51:28,120 --> 01:51:31,960 And I was like, men, be fucking honest right now. 2189 01:51:32,400 --> 01:51:34,880 Everyone put your hand up. Who is judging this man? 2190 01:51:37,000 --> 01:51:38,200 No one. Zero. 2191 01:51:38,280 --> 01:51:39,760 Yeah, yeah. Dude, that's a story you're 2192 01:51:39,760 --> 01:51:41,400 telling yourself. It's a bullshit story you're 2193 01:51:41,400 --> 01:51:43,200 telling yourself. Because I'll tell you when you 2194 01:51:43,200 --> 01:51:45,600 get into a room like this, people aren't fucking judging 2195 01:51:45,600 --> 01:51:47,960 you. They're not, and not the way 2196 01:51:47,960 --> 01:51:50,600 that you they think they are. That there's there's compassion 2197 01:51:50,600 --> 01:51:54,120 and there's empathy here. Yeah, well, remember when Robert 2198 01:51:54,120 --> 01:51:56,520 in the podcast said that he went to a sex addicts? 2199 01:51:57,160 --> 01:51:58,960 Yes. It's like I was like, oh, he 2200 01:51:59,040 --> 01:52:00,280 just pressed. I was like, well, there's some 2201 01:52:00,280 --> 01:52:01,640 really hardcore shit going on there. 2202 01:52:02,000 --> 01:52:03,640 And like he said about his stuff. 2203 01:52:03,640 --> 01:52:05,440 And then they went, thank you for sharing, Robert. 2204 01:52:05,440 --> 01:52:07,840 And I was like, Oh my God, that made me laugh. 2205 01:52:07,840 --> 01:52:09,880 I was like, it's quite funny. I was like trying to find a 2206 01:52:09,880 --> 01:52:11,480 parking space and I was like laughing. 2207 01:52:11,480 --> 01:52:13,120 And this guy looked at me as if like, what are you doing? 2208 01:52:13,160 --> 01:52:16,360 I was listening to the podcast in my car and but that's The 2209 01:52:16,360 --> 01:52:20,160 thing is like time and time again is that you'll share this 2210 01:52:20,160 --> 01:52:23,320 like deep, dark, horrible secret. 2211 01:52:23,320 --> 01:52:26,680 You think that's really bad that no one like, and it's the same 2212 01:52:26,680 --> 01:52:28,480 with us on the podcast, on this podcast. 2213 01:52:28,480 --> 01:52:30,320 It's like when I told you before, I was like, I thought 2214 01:52:30,320 --> 01:52:32,480 you're going to give us what actually got told. 2215 01:52:32,480 --> 01:52:33,880 And you're like, oh God, that hurts. 2216 01:52:33,880 --> 01:52:35,240 Oh my God, could that be a problem? 2217 01:52:35,640 --> 01:52:39,040 And it's even me sharing stuff about my relationship with 2218 01:52:39,040 --> 01:52:40,520 Poppy. But I when I've shared it, I'm 2219 01:52:40,520 --> 01:52:43,640 like, Oh yeah, do you know what? It's helpful. 2220 01:52:43,920 --> 01:52:46,160 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's in fact that 2221 01:52:46,160 --> 01:52:49,200 actually when the guy shared that and another guy on the call 2222 01:52:49,200 --> 01:52:53,000 who was also knew was like, hey man, just gone through the same 2223 01:52:53,000 --> 01:52:56,440 thing, fucking the same thing. I'm like I said, I was like, 2224 01:52:56,440 --> 01:52:59,440 dude, what the fucking you think that's coincidence? 2225 01:52:59,520 --> 01:53:01,440 Yeah. It's what's what's interesting 2226 01:53:01,440 --> 01:53:03,080 is we believe our problems are special. 2227 01:53:03,400 --> 01:53:06,000 Yeah, they're not unique. No. 2228 01:53:07,000 --> 01:53:09,280 Some of them can be quite niche, you know, I'm not going to lie, 2229 01:53:09,280 --> 01:53:11,200 there's been niche problems like, wow, that's a that's a 2230 01:53:11,200 --> 01:53:14,640 real niche problem. But they're all the same. 2231 01:53:14,800 --> 01:53:16,120 They're all the same sort of shades. 2232 01:53:16,560 --> 01:53:21,000 And that is what is I I like what Robert is doing like Robert 2233 01:53:21,000 --> 01:53:22,800 is. So if you, if you haven't 2234 01:53:22,840 --> 01:53:26,720 listened to the podcast, if you haven't listened to the podcast, 2235 01:53:26,720 --> 01:53:30,320 listen to it again. If you haven't read noble, Mr. 2236 01:53:30,320 --> 01:53:32,640 Nice guy. It's a foundational book for a 2237 01:53:32,640 --> 01:53:35,320 man listening to this podcast. So if you're a big fan of a 2238 01:53:35,320 --> 01:53:37,520 Wakeman, go and listen to that book. 2239 01:53:37,520 --> 01:53:38,760 Go and what? Go and read the book. 2240 01:53:38,840 --> 01:53:40,760 Book Robert actually reads the book now. 2241 01:53:42,360 --> 01:53:46,440 It's pivotal. And it's like the the thing I 2242 01:53:46,440 --> 01:53:48,920 think what was really good is that you when you read the book, 2243 01:53:48,920 --> 01:53:50,640 you then need a group to do the work. 2244 01:53:51,320 --> 01:53:53,640 And I think Pete, you know, I think you're definitely 2245 01:53:53,640 --> 01:53:56,840 signposts where the best place for guys who've ever listened to 2246 01:53:56,840 --> 01:54:00,000 this podcast and they want to do the the normal Mr. Nice Guy work 2247 01:54:00,000 --> 01:54:02,760 on themselves or they want to do the men's work on themselves. 2248 01:54:02,760 --> 01:54:06,320 Where would they go after this? They go to the Awaken Man, they 2249 01:54:06,320 --> 01:54:09,600 would go to heroicman.com. They go to the Awaken Man 2250 01:54:10,120 --> 01:54:13,200 project Instagram page resonates. 2251 01:54:13,560 --> 01:54:18,080 Reach out. All right, guys, good insights. 2252 01:54:18,080 --> 01:54:20,640 We're going to do some more of these where we give insights on 2253 01:54:20,640 --> 01:54:22,160 some of the most popular podcasts. 2254 01:54:22,160 --> 01:54:24,040 So TuneIn for the next speak to you soon.