1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,360 There was a concerted effort to hide Biden not just from the 2 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:06,760 public, not just from reporters, but from his own administration, 3 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:09,360 from Cabinet secretaries, from senior aides in the White House, 4 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:11,520 from Democratic members of Congress. 5 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:13,800 I wonder if that's really the theme. 6 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:18,200 The Democrats, and especially the Bidens, were so focused, so 7 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:22,360 obsessed by the phenomenon of Trump that this guy could even 8 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:25,640 try to get back into the White House that it kind of abrogated 9 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:27,640 them of all other responsibilities. 10 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:32,360 The focus on what they call the existential threat of Donald 11 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:35,200 Trump allowed them to justify almost everything. 12 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:41,280 Hello and welcome to the forecast. 13 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:44,720 It was one of the most jaw-dropping moments in American 14 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:47,280 presidential history. In just a few minutes of 15 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:51,040 faltering, incoherent, incomprehensible, President 16 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:54,600 Biden destroyed his own presidency and chances of re 17 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:56,440 election. It was the first presidential 18 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:59,560 debate against his opponent Donald Trump in late June last 19 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:01,600 year. To many watching at home, it 20 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:04,959 came as a shock. To others as confirmation of 21 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:08,840 what they had long suspected. To a small inner circle around 22 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:13,040 Biden, the truth had come out, A truth they had been trying to 23 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:17,880 hide from the world and perhaps even from themselves. 3 long 24 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:21,240 weeks later, Biden bowed out and handed the baton to his Vice 25 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:24,520 President, Kamala Harris. She breathed new life into a 26 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:27,720 badly wounded campaign, but not enough. 27 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:31,520 The question hanging over her campaign, over her defeat to 28 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:35,520 Trump, and still over the Democratic Party is why Biden 29 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:40,320 was allowed to seek re election in 2023, let alone continue to 30 00:01:40,320 --> 00:01:42,720 soldier on until it was too late. 31 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:45,280 Who allowed this to happen? Who's to blame? 32 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:48,240 The Biden family, the staffers of the inner circle? 33 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:49,640 The media? The medics? 34 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:53,040 All of the above. Well, an explosive new book 35 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:57,360 called Original Sin by CNN anchor Jake Tapper and Axios 36 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:01,040 correspondent Alex Thompson has given us the inside account. 37 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:05,480 What it reveals are depths of deceit and self deceit. 38 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:09,160 On the whole, it makes painful reading for Democrats and yes, 39 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:13,520 gleeful reading for Republicans. I'm very pleased to have CNNS 40 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:17,000 Jake Tapper join us now from DC Jake, it's good to see you 41 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:19,400 again. It is an absolutely cracking 42 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:20,960 read. And they, as I said, a very 43 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:24,600 painful read, perhaps even for some Republicans. 44 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:29,640 You extraordinarily also hosted the debate in which Biden 45 00:02:29,640 --> 00:02:32,480 faulted. So just to kick off this 46 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:36,520 interview, talk us through those moments and when you started to 47 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:39,920 realize that things were going horribly wrong for President Joe 48 00:02:39,920 --> 00:02:43,480 Biden. Well, he walked out that night, 49 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:48,160 June 27th, in the debate that I Co moderated with Dana Bash, and 50 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:52,880 he seemed, you know, very old and we had gotten used to his 51 00:02:53,920 --> 00:02:57,600 gait at that point from his degenerating spine. 52 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:01,680 He had a cold, so his voice was even readier and higher than 53 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:04,880 usual. But I didn't realize that things 54 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:08,120 were going truly off the rails until maybe his second answer, 55 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:13,240 when he really was having difficulty finding the words to 56 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:18,720 articulate his thoughts, his arguments to the American people 57 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,440 about why he should be re elected. 58 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:27,440 And shockingly, that got worse and worse to the point that at 59 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:32,400 the very end of it, he said we finally beat Medicare, which 60 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:35,440 makes no sense. And I think he was maybe trying 61 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:38,240 to say we finally beat COVID, but I'm not really sure. 62 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:42,440 And then it actually kept getting worse and worse and 63 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:44,800 worse. And it I was sitting. 64 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:48,880 So Dan and I were there at that desk, and as you know, in a 65 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:52,560 situation like that, you can't speak to the control room 66 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:55,480 because people will hear you. They can say anything they want 67 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:57,640 to you, but you can't say anything back. 68 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:01,880 So they had given us an iPad so that we could write notes to 69 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:04,520 them and they could read them back in the control room. 70 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:06,680 I didn't know who was back there, so I kept it clean. 71 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:09,960 But I wrote back. I wrote to them, holy smokes, 72 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:12,840 because I just was shocked like everybody else. 73 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:14,520 That's quite tame, isn't it? Holy smokes. 74 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:17,640 Well, it's not what I was thinking, but again, I didn't 75 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:19,040 know. I didn't know who was back. 76 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:21,040 There, there. There are lots of extraordinary 77 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:23,040 details in your book. And one of them occurred on the 78 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:26,400 day of the debate, which is that there was, you know, both 79 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:29,120 candidates were allowed to do a walkthrough, you know, looking 80 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:31,560 at the arena while they were joust against each other later 81 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:33,600 in the day. And, you know, they often 82 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:36,400 candidates often turn up late. Maybe it's the cool thing to do. 83 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:39,400 And, and I think Trump turned up at, you know, 6:00 or so. 84 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:41,720 The debate was going to be recorded at 9:00. 85 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:45,000 Astonishingly, Biden said, I don't need to turn up. 86 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,720 And then he finally showed up, You know, I think at 8:20, I 87 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:51,560 mean, just before the broadcast. I mean, that attitude of I don't 88 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:54,720 really need to do this the way that other people are doing it 89 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:57,560 and then to falter in this way. What does that tell you? 90 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:00,560 What did that tell you? It tells me that there was a a 91 00:05:00,840 --> 00:05:06,360 degree of hubris and delusion that the president was 92 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:11,120 experiencing that is remarkable even to this moment. 93 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:13,720 You're quite right in how you describe it. 94 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:17,360 And as you know from doing these things, walkthroughs are very 95 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:20,120 normal. Candidates just like to see 96 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:23,440 which is their camera, what happens, what happens when the 97 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:25,200 other guy is speaking, etcetera, etcetera. 98 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:29,080 And Biden by 8, by 820, he still hadn't been there. 99 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:34,840 Actually, he didn't show up till 8:30 and it was truly shocking. 100 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:39,440 And the Biden campaign explained it as like, he doesn't, you 101 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:40,680 know, he's done a lot of these debates. 102 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:42,760 He's 82. He's been in public life since 103 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:44,800 1970. He's done a lot of these 104 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:46,040 debates. He doesn't need to do it, which 105 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:49,640 is just just, it's, it's stunning. 106 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:52,440 And then when you consider obviously what happened after 107 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:57,960 that, even even more stunning because it, it gets into the 108 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,800 arrogance of his decision. He thought ultimately, and This 109 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:03,360 is why they wanted to do an early debate in June as opposed 110 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:06,120 to 1 after Labor Day in September or October. 111 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:09,960 He thought all he would need to do was stand on stage next to 112 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:13,080 President Trump and whatever concerns the American people had 113 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:16,400 about his age, his acuity, inflation, the border, that 114 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:19,640 would all melt away because they would see how how crazy Donald 115 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:21,680 Trump was. And that's obviously not what 116 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:23,720 happened. I wonder if that's really the 117 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:26,320 theme. The Democrats and especially the 118 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:31,120 Bidens were so focused, so obsessed, so deranged, if you 119 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:34,800 like, by the phenomenon of Trump that this guy, you know, who 120 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:38,080 tried to overturn democracy, who by that stage of the debate had 121 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:41,840 been convicted of a crime, you know, could even try to get back 122 00:06:41,840 --> 00:06:44,480 into the White House. That it kind of abrogated them 123 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:47,920 of all other responsibilities. He was bad enough. 124 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:51,880 And that Vadnais of Trump was was in was big enough to get 125 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:57,000 them back into the White House. The focus on what they call the 126 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:03,200 existential threat of Donald Trump allowed them to justify. 127 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:08,320 And by them, I mean the Biden family and his top aides and the 128 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:12,040 Democratic Party to a large extent allowed them to justify 129 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:15,200 almost everything. It allowed them to justify 130 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:21,440 putting somebody as nominee who his own cabinet secretaries told 131 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:25,480 us in this book that he could not be relied upon for that 132 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:29,160 proverbial 2:00 AM phone call for a national security crisis. 133 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:31,520 He he wouldn't be up to it, some cabinet secretaries told us. 134 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:36,480 It allowed them to justify not having a competitive primary. 135 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:40,840 It allowed them to justify not doing interviews, not having 136 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:45,560 press conferences. If if you think that you are the 137 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:49,560 only answer to a question that poses an existential threat to 138 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:52,760 the free world, you really can get away with anything in your 139 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:55,520 own mind. Your book is called Original 140 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:57,760 Sin. What is the original sin? 141 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:03,080 The original sin, as these more than 200 Democratic insiders 142 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:07,600 explained to us, in their view most of them was the decision to 143 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:10,080 run for re election. When Joe Biden ran for 144 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:13,680 president, there was an implicit promise that he would run as a 145 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:18,840 one term. 4 aides did a strategic leak to Politico in 146 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:23,120 December 2019 saying he would only serve one term when he was 147 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:26,000 getting a big, you know, a three person endorsement from Cory 148 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:29,320 Booker, Kamala Harris and Gretchen Whitmer in I think 149 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:34,080 March of 2020, he, he talked about being a bridge to the next 150 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:39,320 generation and yet he decided, no, you know what, I'm I'm going 151 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:44,280 to go for two. And that decision, even when 152 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:50,000 polls were already showing that vast numbers of Americans, 10s 153 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:52,040 of millions of Americans, had concerns about his age and 154 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:56,720 acuity, was the original sin. And from that flowed everything 155 00:08:56,760 --> 00:09:00,120 else, every other bad decision. And Jake, do you think that when 156 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:03,240 they said, because I remember that that implication of serving 157 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:06,400 for one term as a bridge, I remember that really well. 158 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:10,040 I don't remember him actually enunciating it, spelling it out, 159 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:13,200 but that was the implication. And no one ever abused us of 160 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:15,240 this being wrong at the time, right? 161 00:09:15,560 --> 00:09:18,400 But do you think that they thought they believed that or 162 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:21,280 were they lying at the time when they said when they implied that 163 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:22,680 it would be a one term president? 164 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:28,560 I think that it is the decision of politicians in an election, 165 00:09:28,560 --> 00:09:32,800 which is like the decision of a of a car salesman in a showroom. 166 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:37,080 What do I have to do to get you to leave the showroom in this 167 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:39,400 car today? And I think they just figured 168 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:42,960 that they had to make the implied promise it would OK, 169 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:46,800 he's old, but it's just going to be one term. 170 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:51,080 But what they didn't count on is, and our reporting suggests 171 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:55,600 that as far back as 2015, after the death of his son Beau, there 172 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:57,680 was a psychic toll being taken on him. 173 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:02,000 In 2017, 2018, he was losing his train of thought. 174 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:06,240 He was forgetting things. 2019-2020 during that campaign 175 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:11,480 aids would describe for us a good functioning Biden and also 176 00:10:11,680 --> 00:10:14,280 a non functioning Biden. And then throughout his 177 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:18,160 presidency, that non functioning Biden would rear his head 178 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:21,040 increasingly. And by non functioning, I mean 179 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:24,920 forgetting the names of close friends, not able to identify 180 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:28,600 George Clooney who he'd known for decades, not being able to 181 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:31,400 come up with the names of top aides, losing his train of 182 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:34,000 thought in an alarming way. We all lose our train of 183 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:35,080 thought. We all forget names. 184 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:37,520 I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about to a degree 185 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:40,040 that it was unsettling and suggested something cognitively 186 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:43,680 was going on and this was going on behind the scenes, was going 187 00:10:43,680 --> 00:10:47,000 on in front of cameras to a lesser degree, but behind the 188 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:48,800 scenes with increasing frequency. 189 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:52,080 I have to say, not recognizing George Clooney did come as a bit 190 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:53,400 of a shock. I mean, I think there's probably 191 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:56,040 no one on the planet who doesn't recognize George Clooney. 192 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:59,600 But but to be serious for a second, you said that from that 193 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:02,240 original sin flowed all these bad decisions. 194 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:07,960 But these bad decisions also ended up in deceit, in actual 195 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:10,400 planned deceit. Tell us about that. 196 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:14,480 Well, I mean, some of the examples of the intentionally 197 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:18,280 planned to see are told to us by members of the Biden 198 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:21,360 administration. One person, high-ranking 199 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:23,840 official in the White House leaving because they didn't want 200 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:26,400 to be part of it. And because this person told us 201 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:30,120 there was a concerted effort to hide Biden not just from the 202 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:33,480 public, not just from reporters, but from his own administration, 203 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:36,080 from Cabinet secretaries, from senior aides in the White House, 204 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:38,280 from Democratic members of Congress. 205 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:42,480 There's a, there's a, a Cabinet meeting in October 2023. 206 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:44,880 That's the last one for almost a year. 207 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:48,080 Cabinet secretaries told us that he they, that they were kept at 208 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:52,160 Bay When one of them had a meeting with him somewhere in 209 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:56,520 between that Cabinet meeting and the June debate, that person was 210 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:58,400 shocked. He seemed disoriented. 211 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:00,680 He seemed out of it. They couldn't believe what was 212 00:12:00,680 --> 00:12:03,960 going on. When those people who felt 213 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:08,120 somehow excluded from the presence of the president that 214 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:10,360 something was wrong in the system, when they raised the 215 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:12,280 alarm bells, what happened to them? 216 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:19,040 Well, they were cut off. This was, you know, Joe Biden is 217 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:25,040 not alone among politicians in being spiteful and demanding 218 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:26,800 loyalty. He's certainly not the first one 219 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:28,280 like that, and he won't be the last. 220 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:31,360 But when people raised issues like that, they were shown the 221 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:33,080 door. There's a pollster named John 222 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:36,720 Anzalone who had been with Biden as far back as when Biden ran 223 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:40,040 for president the first time in the 1980s. 224 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:47,080 And Anzalone was kind of shunted to the side because he was 225 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:51,000 raising questions about the administration's policies on 226 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:55,160 inflation and on the border. And then when Biden, before 227 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:57,760 Biden announced that he was running for re election, he had 228 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:00,960 a talk with a couple members of the White House team, including 229 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:03,280 Anita Dunn, who was a senior advisor. 230 00:13:03,680 --> 00:13:06,960 And he was he was expecting that he would be asked to do some 231 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:10,640 polling on whether or not Biden should run for re election. 232 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:14,400 Just, you know, we are a data-driven political world 233 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:16,640 these days. I don't have to tell people in 234 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:20,560 the government of Keir Starmer how data-driven politicians can 235 00:13:20,560 --> 00:13:24,080 be. And Anzalone was shocked because 236 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:25,920 Anita done said, we're not, we're not polling for this. 237 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:28,840 The decisions already been made. And he he couldn't believe it. 238 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:31,920 And he was further and further excommunicated from the group. 239 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:35,320 Congressman Dean Phillips, he runs against Biden. 240 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:38,080 He says just to get this out in the open that there is a real 241 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:41,520 problem behind the scenes. He's basically defenestrated and 242 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:43,400 excommunicated from the Democratic Party. 243 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:47,200 Person after person that with they raise their head. 244 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,520 Then Anvil falls down on the special counsel Robert. 245 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:54,960 Her is the first person from outside the Democratic Party to 246 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:57,120 have a long sit down with Joe Biden. 247 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:00,280 He's investigating him for his handling classified information 248 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,880 and he can't believe this rambling old man. 249 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:07,880 And he says in his report in February 2024 that he's not 250 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:11,280 going to prosecute him because a jury would find President Biden 251 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:13,240 a well meaning elderly man with a poor memory. 252 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:16,720 He gets shellacked, as does the attorney general. 253 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:19,640 The The administration goes to war against its own Justice 254 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:22,200 Department. So what does some of the devices 255 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:24,960 that the administration or the inner circle around Biden came 256 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:28,840 up with to try and limit the kind of visible damage of his 257 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:32,880 frailty? Well, some of them started out 258 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:36,200 innocent enough. Any politician wants to be 259 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:40,280 portrayed as in in as positive a light as possible. 260 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:43,760 And certainly running for president during COVID, as much 261 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:47,440 of as COVID was a disaster and tragedy for the world, was a 262 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,360 benefit to Joe Biden because he he didn't have to travel all 263 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:52,680 that much. He could do a lot of zooms. 264 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:58,320 But by 2021-2022, the teleprompters that he was 265 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:02,440 relying on, the note cards he was relying on became something 266 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:06,200 of a crutch and and people would point it out, Conservatives 267 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:10,040 especially would point it out how much he was relying on these 268 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:15,000 things and how odd it was. But it was even worse behind the 269 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:18,520 scenes because he would go to a fundraiser of 40 or 50 people, 270 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:22,160 and the campaign would demand that he'd be allowed to have a 271 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:24,480 teleprompter just to make impromptu remarks for 10 272 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:26,280 minutes. People thought it was weird. 273 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:27,520 People thought it was disconcerting. 274 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:30,400 Bill. Bill Daley, former Obama White 275 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:32,960 House chief of staff, went to one of these events and couldn't 276 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:34,720 believe it. He was trying to get a 277 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:37,680 Democratic governor to run against Biden because he didn't 278 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:38,760 think Biden was going to make it. 279 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:41,800 And he had loved Joe Biden. He was Biden's political 280 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:44,680 director during his 1988 presidential campaign. 281 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:47,600 What really amazes me is that you know when when some people 282 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:49,240 were clearly raising the alarm bells. 283 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:52,000 I mean, George Clooney after not being recognized by the 284 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,160 president, who we've known for years, wrote a very searing 285 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:56,840 op-ed piece in one of the papers. 286 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:01,120 Ari Emmanuel, the the famous Hollywood agent, you know, was 287 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:03,800 screaming at the back of a Democrat fundraiser meeting, I 288 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:06,880 think, or some, some party meeting, you know, saying the 289 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:09,920 president's not up to it, he should bow down, etcetera. 290 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:12,760 You know, when when there was clearly clamour for all this, 291 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:15,840 you know, why didn't they go to the next level? 292 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:19,200 You know, why did people in Congress, in the media not stand 293 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:23,160 up and say this can't go on, especially when the opponent is 294 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:26,880 someone who was styled by the White House as being a danger to 295 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:30,480 democracy? Well, I mean, the question kind 296 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:33,920 of answers itself because why were a bunch of politicians not 297 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:35,720 behaving bravely and independently? 298 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:37,640 I mean, that's the answer to the question. 299 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:38,960 They're because they're politicians. 300 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:42,200 They're in fear of voters. And Democratic voters to this 301 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:45,520 day are angry about any discussion of this. 302 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:47,240 How come you're not covering Donald Trump? 303 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:49,840 I mean, that is what the Democratic Party is going to 304 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:53,600 have to reckon with as they also have to deal with the fact that 305 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:57,040 this is a calamity and a tragedy that most people with 306 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:02,360 functioning eyes and ears now recognize was a major cover up 307 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:04,079 and a major problem for the country. 308 00:17:04,079 --> 00:17:07,160 And that's I don't, I don't envy them having to negotiate those 309 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:08,599 waters. As a journalist, I don't have to 310 00:17:08,599 --> 00:17:11,200 worry about pleasing a base. But I hear from the angry 311 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:14,000 Democrats. They have to appeal to them. 312 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:17,040 We talk a lot about the difference around Donald Trump, 313 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:18,760 you know, when he's got his cabinet meeting and people have 314 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:21,280 to put up their hand and tell him how wonderful he is. 315 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:25,599 You know, did did the Democrats around Biden fear Biden or Jill 316 00:17:25,599 --> 00:17:29,080 Biden as much as the Republicans around Trump fear Trump? 317 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:33,800 I think it was there. Obviously there was a degree of 318 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:35,560 that. There was also a degree of 319 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:39,880 loyalty. There was also a degree of if I 320 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:42,960 do anything, I will be helping Donald Trump. 321 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:45,440 Joe Biden's running for re election. 322 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,720 He is the president. There is no viable alternative 323 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:50,800 candidate. The Biden people would would use 324 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:53,000 Kamala Harris, the vice president who at the time was 325 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:55,960 even less popular than Biden, as an excuse. 326 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:57,360 How can you get rid of Joe Biden? 327 00:17:57,520 --> 00:17:59,640 Look at Kamala, you want Kamala to be the nominee. 328 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:03,320 So I think there there were a lot of factors. 329 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:07,440 We after all contain multitudes. But I do think the existential 330 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:11,520 fear of Donald Trump and being seen as in any way helping 331 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:16,040 Donald Trump really guided the decisions of a lot of these 332 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:17,560 people. But also keep in mind a lot of 333 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:20,760 them have their, you know, very few of the people who work for 334 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:23,600 Joe Biden were near retirement age themselves. 335 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,760 Most of them were young enough to either want to run for 336 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:31,120 president themselves or want to keep working and making some 337 00:18:31,120 --> 00:18:36,480 money for their families, and this is not a popular thing to 338 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:38,480 do. There's a whole chapter in your 339 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:42,320 book called Jill Biden, then the first lady, of course, How 340 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:46,320 guilty was she and how guilty were the people around both her 341 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:50,960 and Joe Biden? First and foremost, I think you 342 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:52,720 have to lay this at the feet of the president. 343 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:58,120 Joe Biden was the one who made the decision to run for re 344 00:18:58,120 --> 00:19:01,200 election. Joe Biden is the one who, at 345 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:04,200 least to some degree, was aware of his deterioration. 346 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:08,520 I'm 56, I know what I'm capable of doing now and what I'm not 347 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:10,880 capable of doing now as opposed to 1015 years ago. 348 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:13,960 I know when I forget a word. I know when I forget a name. 349 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:19,280 I'm well aware of this and I I think Joe Biden has to be 350 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:23,040 acknowledged was the one driving this train. 351 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:26,520 That said, doctor Jill Biden, the the first lady, former first 352 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:32,040 lady was part of the deal. She was part of the team that 353 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:36,240 tried to make sure that by the her husband was portrayed in as 354 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:39,200 positive and misleading away as possible. 355 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:43,440 One of her top aides, Anthony Bernal, was perhaps the most 356 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:47,200 powerful first lady chief of staff in the history of the 357 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:49,920 United States. Anthony Bernal was basically a 358 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:52,880 Co chief of staff to the White House when it came to how Joe 359 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:57,280 Biden was portrayed. So I think those two obviously 360 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:01,360 bear most of the responsibility. Hunter Biden, the president's 361 00:20:01,360 --> 00:20:05,440 son who has had struggles with addiction and the law. 362 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:10,760 He was basically a functioning family, chief of staff making. 363 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:13,960 The president or encouraging the president, encouraging his 364 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:18,280 father to fight back, to go after his critics. 365 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:22,840 He was very responsible as well. And then there's a group that 366 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:25,120 people in the White House, people in the administration 367 00:20:25,120 --> 00:20:29,520 would call the politburo. These are the very top Biden 368 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:34,400 aides, most loyal Biden aides, Mike Donnellan and Steve 369 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,320 Roschetti. There were others who were part 370 00:20:37,360 --> 00:20:40,960 of this group of top aides that were part of the cover up, but 371 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:45,400 nobody outside the family more so than Donnellan and Roschetti. 372 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,680 Jake Sullivan, the former national security adviser, gave 373 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:52,160 an interview to the Financial Times earlier this year, and he 374 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:55,440 said that when he saw the debate performance that you and Dana 375 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:59,160 Bash chaired in June of last year, he was deeply shocked. 376 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:02,080 It came as a complete surprise to him out of the blue that the 377 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:03,440 president could be this fortunate. 378 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:07,240 That begs belief, doesn't it, from someone who is always with 379 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:11,160 the president in the Oval Office for all these years on matters 380 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:17,400 of national security? I think it is fair to say that 381 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:22,040 Biden was most animated and most engaged on issues of national 382 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:26,120 security and less so on issues like the immigration or 383 00:21:26,120 --> 00:21:30,040 inflation. That said, I personally find it 384 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:33,960 hard to believe that it was a complete and utter shock to Jake 385 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:36,920 Sullivan. Now that that might be, and you 386 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,560 alluded to this in your introduction, that might be 387 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:43,680 because of a degree of self delusion and self deception. 388 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:49,520 I don't think Jake Sullivan is one of the conspirators trying 389 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:54,840 to portray the president in in a way that was misleading, but I 390 00:21:54,840 --> 00:22:00,400 also think it's quite possible that he was willing to discount 391 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,640 or immediately ignore what he was saying. 392 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:05,640 He claims, for example, there's a scene in the book where 393 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:10,400 President Biden in December 2022 is not able to come up with Jake 394 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:12,560 Sullivan's name, even though he's his national security 395 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:15,400 advisor. He calls him Steve, and then 396 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:17,400 he's not able to come up with the name of his communications 397 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,520 director, Kate Beningfield. He calls her press. 398 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:22,200 Jake Sullivan claims he doesn't remember that. 399 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,360 Does that mean he really doesn't remember it? 400 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:28,400 I can't speak for him. I think the human capacity for 401 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:31,600 self denial is quite strong. The Republicans and people 402 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:35,680 around Trump have for long referred to the Biden family as 403 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:39,120 the Biden crime family. Now that of course was deemed to 404 00:22:39,120 --> 00:22:41,800 be, you know, far fetched, typical Trump talk, etcetera. 405 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:46,640 But when it comes to deceit and cover up, we can argue whether 406 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,160 that's a crime or not. But when it comes to deceit and 407 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:53,560 cover up of the president's cognitive abilities, they sort 408 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:58,360 of have a point, don't they? I don't know how much of the 409 00:22:58,360 --> 00:23:01,800 cover up can be called criminal. I'm not an expert on the law. 410 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:06,680 I'm we, we do not allege a criminal cover up. 411 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,800 It was, it's certainly a scandal and it's certainly appalling. 412 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,720 When the Republicans talk about a Biden crime family, they they 413 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:19,600 mainly talk about ways that Biden's brother and his son 414 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,600 Hunter cashed in on the on the Biden family name. 415 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,720 And there's certainly a lot of smoke there. 416 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:26,720 I don't know if there's any fire. 417 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:28,320 There's certainly a lot of sleaze there. 418 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,880 I don't know if there's any criminality, but but this might 419 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,080 be. And if this is what you're 420 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:38,160 driving at, I agree with you. Truly the most appalling thing 421 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:41,760 that the Biden family ever did. And of course, when you talk 422 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,640 about self enrichment, you know, the the Trump family can't 423 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:47,560 really start that conversation without some red faces. 424 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:50,600 OK, but but just to get back to the, you know, to the cover up. 425 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:54,040 I mean, one of the things that I found really shocking from your 426 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:58,600 book is the detail that, for instance, as of November 2021, 427 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,840 the annual medical check UPS or medical reports into the health 428 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:06,880 of the president did not include a cognitive section. 429 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,520 He never took a cognitive test, even though they're pretty 430 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:12,280 standard in the United States for anybody. 431 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:15,320 After they turned 65 and President Trump took one, 432 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:19,680 famously, he would recite man, woman, television. 433 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,880 Whatever it was, it became something of a comic staple, his 434 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:29,640 reciting that list of of nouns. I can't get into the head of Doc 435 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,200 O'Connor, the White House physician who was very, very 436 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,120 close to the Biden's. And in fact, some people think 437 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:40,000 too, too close to the Biden's. But I will say that Dr. Jonathan 438 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:44,640 Reiner, who is an advisor to the White House physician's office, 439 00:24:45,120 --> 00:24:50,040 he has said that the only reason you would not give a test like 440 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:52,240 that is because you don't want to know the answer. 441 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:56,400 Now, I know, having spoken to her, that Nancy Pelosi was one 442 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,240 of the people who finally delivered the message to Joe 443 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:03,760 Biden that he had to bow out. But what was the role of people 444 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:08,040 like her over time in the run up, you know, before the 445 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:10,680 disastrous debate, what was the role of Barack and Michelle 446 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,320 Obama? You know, the Obamas are close 447 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:15,640 to the Biden's apparently. What was their role in telling 448 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,280 him or trying to tell him that the game was up? 449 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:21,480 Well it's interesting because they all had their different 450 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:25,440 roles and they did not work in the cohesive unit that some 451 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:30,760 people I think suspect it might even be great if politicians 452 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:32,960 work that collaboratively. Collaboratively. 453 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,640 Pelosi was early on calling for Biden to run for re election. 454 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:40,200 And keep in mind that Nancy Pelosi is 2 years older than Joe 455 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:45,880 Biden, so her take on his cognitive abilities may have 456 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:49,920 been shaped by that perspective. And beyond that, she stepped 457 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,600 down as Democratic leader of the House of Representatives after 458 00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,120 the midterms of 2022, so she didn't really interact with him 459 00:25:56,120 --> 00:26:01,600 much in 2023 or 2024. She, after the debate, was 460 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:09,080 something of a vocal passive aggressive nudger of the 461 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,920 president to leave. Although she never directly said 462 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:16,040 it, she would say things publicly and then also, when she 463 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:20,280 had this secret private meeting with him, tell him he needed to 464 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,520 look at the polling. He needed to look at the what 465 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:25,600 the American people were saying in the polling. 466 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,240 And this isn't one of the most fascinating parts of this whole 467 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:30,880 debacle. There were three pollsters that 468 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:34,600 were really, really good, Jeffrey Pollock, Molly Murphy 469 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,400 and Jeff Garin, names that don't mean anything to anybody outside 470 00:26:38,120 --> 00:26:41,080 politics in the United States, but they were really good 471 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:42,760 pollsters. They did not work on the 472 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:44,520 campaign. They were hired by the campaign 473 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:46,320 and they never talked to Joe Biden. 474 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:50,400 They never directly presented their their findings to Joe 475 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,920 Biden. They always gave it to Donnellan 476 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,840 and Roschetti. And then Donnellan especially 477 00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,240 would interpret and massage the polling. 478 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,960 And so Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, the Democratic leader, Hakeem 479 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:07,000 Jeffries, the House Democratic leader who replaced Pelosi, 480 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:13,160 Obama, their campaign from the debate to Biden dropping out on 481 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:18,000 July 21st, 2024. Their campaign was, have you 482 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,480 looked at the data? Have you looked at the polling? 483 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:24,760 Because the polling, as Chuck Schumer told Biden in a very 484 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,480 intense conversation, the polling suggested he only had a 485 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:31,280 5% chance of winning. The big thought that occurs to 486 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:35,920 me in all this is that there's an enormous amount of deference 487 00:27:36,360 --> 00:27:41,320 in your Republic about the the office of the president who kind 488 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:43,440 of sometimes behaves like an elected monarch. 489 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:45,520 And you could argue that the current one wants to be, you 490 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:46,720 know, treated a bit like a monarch. 491 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,720 But the deference towards the president is that what was going 492 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,760 on here with Biden? I'm glad you brought it up 493 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:59,680 because while I do prefer my country to yours, and I do 494 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:04,160 prefer many of our institutions, especially the 1st Amendment, 495 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:08,040 which I bet you envy to to to yours. 496 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:14,080 I do think that your system, because of Question Time, 497 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,720 because of the parliamentary process, because of the fact 498 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,800 that if you are the leader of the party and you're not 499 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,680 measuring up, you know who's coming for you, right behind 500 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,120 you. I think this could not have 501 00:28:26,120 --> 00:28:30,040 happened in Great Britain. I I just don't think that your 502 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:34,160 system would allow it. And I think our system is flawed 503 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:38,400 in such a way that our political parties are very weak and and 504 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:43,560 our presidents are very powerful and our Congress are, are, are, 505 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:51,760 you know, our legislature is emasculated to the degree that 506 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:55,200 that that is, that is shocking. So I don't think, I don't think 507 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:56,520 it would have happened in the UKI. 508 00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,080 Just covered the conclave in Rome and they they prevent 509 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:03,240 Cardinals who are older from 79 from voting for the next Pope. 510 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,120 You know, there is no such age limit in America. 511 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,840 And you mentioned in your book endless examples of legislators 512 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:13,280 and indeed, presidents, you know, who are unbelievably old 513 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,720 and passed it, frankly, whose ailments get covered up. 514 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:18,800 You know, in Reagan's case, it was Alzheimer's. 515 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,960 You know, in FD Rs case, it was the polio at first in in Woodrow 516 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:24,240 Wilson's case, it was something else. 517 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:28,240 This is a theme of which Biden is just the latest iteration. 518 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,560 Latest and perhaps the worst since Woodrow Wilson had a 519 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,160 stroke while in office. President Wilson and his wife, 520 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:37,880 Edith Wilson basically just propped him up and served as 521 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,160 president for some time. It is a problem in this country. 522 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:48,040 And I too am very keen on that data point from the conclave. 523 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,640 And I was just remarking, when did the Vatican become more 524 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,760 forward leaning and progressive than the United States 525 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,440 government? And that rule has been around 526 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,840 since I think 1970. But they have something there. 527 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:05,120 Look, my dad is 85, my mom is 82. 528 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:09,560 Love him dearly, love to be with them, but we just have to 529 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:15,560 acknowledge that while not everybody at age 80 is unable to 530 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:20,240 be president, most of us are. Jake Tapper, thank you very much 531 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:22,760 indeed. The book is called Original Sin. 532 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,240 We just spoke to one of the authors and that's it for the 533 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:27,400 forecast. I hope you enjoyed it. 534 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:28,200 See you next time.