1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,200 The royal family has always misbehaved, but they've done so 2 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,240 behind layers of privacy that has now been obliterated, does 3 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:08,119 not exist in the difference has gone. 4 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:11,240 The religious idea of Romani is they're facing a terminal 5 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:14,240 crisis. The crisis, if you like, is way 6 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:16,760 out of their control. I think we'll look back at 7 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:21,240 today, the day that Angie was arrested, as a, as a real 8 00:00:21,240 --> 00:00:23,400 turning point. I mean, it is a member of the 9 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:27,000 royal family as we sit here is in a cell. 10 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:30,320 The same police force that has arrested him is looking into 11 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:33,760 much more serious allegations, arguably about the trafficking 12 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:36,320 of women. Are we approaching a point where 13 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:42,280 this is not recoverable? Hello and welcome to the 14 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:44,200 forecast. Andrew Manbatton Windsor has 15 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:46,880 been arrested and his brother, the King, says the police have 16 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:49,520 his full and wholehearted support and that the law must 17 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:52,600 take its course. So what happens next for Andrew 18 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:55,040 and the Crown? Is this the biggest crisis the 19 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:56,680 royal family has faced in modern history? 20 00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:59,880 The King says it would not be right to comment further on the 21 00:00:59,880 --> 00:01:01,840 matter. But how long will he be able to 22 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:04,440 hold that line? Joining me today, the historian 23 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:08,840 Dan Snow and David Yellen, the former editor of The Sun, is 24 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:11,720 joining us on Zoom. David, let's begin with you 25 00:01:11,960 --> 00:01:15,280 because you work in in public relations as well. 26 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:18,840 I mean, is, is this the biggest crisis the monarchy has ever 27 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:21,840 faced in modern times? And can they survive it? 28 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:25,960 I think this is a very bad day in a series of very bad days. 29 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:28,880 I think they're going to be a lot more bad days if this goes 30 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:31,680 to court. And I don't think people have 31 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:33,200 really got their heads around that yet. 32 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:36,280 And yes, Krishna, I think this is the worst crisis since the 33 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:37,360 abdication. Yeah. 34 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:40,040 Dan when was the last time a Prince was arrested? 35 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:41,120 Oh, I'm glad you've asked me that. 36 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:43,200 I, I'm trying to do that. I'm trying to crunch it. 37 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:47,440 I, I think it was probably the Duke of Monmouth who was the son 38 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:50,600 of the acknowledged, albeit legitimate son of Charles the 39 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:53,680 Second, fought an upright, launched an uprising against his 40 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:56,400 uncle James 2nd, and was arrested and tried and executed 41 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:59,760 in 1685. And despite the best efforts of 42 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:02,280 many, many Georgian Princess and you know, some of Queen 43 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:04,760 Victoria's two kids, they have managed to, they've managed to 44 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:06,840 keep out of keep out of the prison cell. 45 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:08,919 So I think it's, I mean, it really is. 46 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:11,440 It's got usually when you people say things are unprecedented, 47 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:13,920 they're usually quite precedented. 48 00:02:13,920 --> 00:02:16,600 But this one is this is really extraordinary, really 49 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:18,640 extraordinary. I mean, David, when you say this 50 00:02:18,640 --> 00:02:22,960 is going to get worse, you have to think about where where an 51 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:28,160 arrest leads, if it goes to a criminal case and who the other 52 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:31,280 witnesses might be, who else might be questioned. 53 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:36,800 We're talking about people in government, people in the 54 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:41,000 palace, possibly Sarah Ferguson, you know, goodness knows who 55 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:43,560 else, Possibly the king. You know, journalists like 56 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:45,000 ourselves have been around a few years. 57 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:47,480 We're used to this. But I don't think the public is 58 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:50,320 yet. And I think what we're going to 59 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:53,440 see, what's going to happen is it will go quiet for a bit 60 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:56,480 because that's what happens. Should there be charges, for 61 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,120 example? This is now an active case. 62 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:02,920 So it might dip, but then it will come back and it will come 63 00:03:02,920 --> 00:03:05,920 back in the most forensic and reputationally damaging way that 64 00:03:05,920 --> 00:03:10,600 you can possibly have, which is if it happens, a Criminal Court 65 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:13,600 case, as you say, Krishna. With, with, with people that 66 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:17,360 normally don't talk, that have spent their entire lives not 67 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:20,440 talking publicly when they except when they want to be like 68 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,240 Sarah Ferguson and members of the royal family and people in 69 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:24,920 and around. And much more importantly, it's 70 00:03:24,920 --> 00:03:29,440 in my mind, the staff, the people at the palace, what did 71 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,640 they know, you know, and when did they know it? 72 00:03:32,640 --> 00:03:36,560 And they will be asked that. And I think this is, I mean, we 73 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:39,000 don't know how bad this is because we don't know what's 74 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:40,800 actually going to come out. It's the real truth. 75 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:43,520 But you know what? Neither does the palace. 76 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:45,400 Right. But I mean, do you think their 77 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:47,760 public line can hold, but that's it. 78 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:49,480 They've said they support the investigation. 79 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:52,920 No, and that's it. I did this podcast on the BBC 80 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:55,160 call when it hits the fan and I've been saying for weeks there 81 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:58,640 that actually that what you might call the tactical PR of 82 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:02,080 the palace has gotten very good in recent in recent weeks. 83 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:04,440 They react in real time to the news. 84 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:07,960 So today we've seen two statements, seen a statement 85 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:09,960 from Buckingham Palace, a statement from Kensington 86 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:12,000 Palace. And they haven't just said we 87 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:13,720 can't comment because this is an ongoing case. 88 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:17,399 They have, they have, you know, said that they, I haven't got 89 00:04:17,399 --> 00:04:21,160 the exact words in front of me, but basically they are concerned 90 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:23,960 about the allegations and they will continue to cooperate and 91 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:26,800 so on. That's OK. 92 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:32,960 But really the, the, the, the crisis, if you like, is way out 93 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:36,040 of their control now because they don't know what's going to 94 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:37,720 happen. They don't know, they don't know 95 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:40,680 how bad this is. And, and, you know, we are 96 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:47,760 possibly going to see, you know, the, the king because obviously 97 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:51,440 every prosecution in the UK is in the King's name, the king 98 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:54,200 having to, to prosecute his own brother. 99 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:58,640 I mean, that would be a truly extraordinary thing. 100 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:02,600 And I think also we have to think about, you know, these 101 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:06,000 statements work. I think they work for for people 102 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:09,800 like us people, you know, we've been around a bit. 103 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:13,080 We know that really the powers can't say much more and they're 104 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:17,440 trying their best. But for younger generations and 105 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:23,320 for the rest of the world, they just see Epstein and Andrew and 106 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:28,960 Virginia Jeffrey arrest court case, you know, locked up at the 107 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:32,400 moment. And it can't get worse, isn't 108 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:33,400 it? I mean, that is just 109 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:37,800 reputationally devastating. And that's what the world sees. 110 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:40,200 And I think I, I really think there's a risk question that we 111 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:44,280 within the media, we sort of, we don't see the, what we don't see 112 00:05:44,280 --> 00:05:47,320 actually how the rest of the world and people under the age 113 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:51,440 of say 40 are, are seeing this and what they think about this. 114 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:55,320 Dan, how how do you think this translates to the public also 115 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:58,200 bearing in mind that in America they don't have any of the 116 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:00,400 deference to the royal family We do. 117 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,680 And you've got politicians out there demanding everybody gives 118 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:05,240 evidence. Yeah, well, I I was tried what 119 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:07,600 David said in a in a series of bad days. 120 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:10,760 This is the worst day. The the problem is the, the, the 121 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:13,960 royal family have been on, they've been taking hits since 122 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:17,000 the invention of, of the sort of the modern news media, let alone 123 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:20,040 the Internet, the annihilation of distance, the intimacy, the 124 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:22,520 destruction of privacy. It was all they they've just 125 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:24,480 been below. You know, I grew up with toe 126 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:27,480 sucking and I grew up with tape record, phone recordings. 127 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:30,160 I mean, this is as Dave, this has been a this has just been a 128 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:33,480 attritional First World War like trench warfare. 129 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:36,320 This family has been involved in and I think if you, if you 130 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:38,160 really scale it right back, you know, what is the point? 131 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:40,040 The monarchy, well, 1000 years ago, the point, the monarchy is 132 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:42,440 they're going to protect you from the guy coming over the 133 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:43,360 beach. They're going to protect your 134 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:45,440 farm from being burning your kids from being enslaved, right. 135 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:47,360 So that's, that's gone. That's we don't have that 136 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:48,760 anymore. So then the monarchy invented 137 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:51,800 this new idea, which is the idea of this sort of soft power, a 138 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:55,600 family that can exist above the fray, above the petty squabbles, 139 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,000 above the little things that you and I do every day trying to 140 00:06:58,200 --> 00:06:59,840 earn a buck, trying to get ahead. 141 00:06:59,920 --> 00:07:01,880 They don't need all that they got the jewelry in the medals 142 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:03,320 the past. So instead they're going to 143 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:06,040 they're going to shape best behaviour and and manners. 144 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:08,440 They're going to do good works and bring attention things. 145 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:12,680 But that that doesn't work if if you know that members of the 146 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:17,360 family are flogging state secrets to to to foreign agents, 147 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:19,240 It doesn't work if they're behaving atrocity in their 148 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:20,960 personal life. And so it's the combination of 149 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:22,920 those two things. The fault the royal family has 150 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:27,120 always misbehaved, but they've done so behind layers of privacy 151 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:29,400 that has now been obliterate does not exist in what we the 152 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:31,640 difference has gone. The religious idea of Romanica 153 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:33,560 is gone. So, so we are happy to report 154 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:36,160 and share those things which, which would have sunk Edward the 155 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:39,200 7th when he was a young man, It would have sunk the George the 156 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:41,880 4th when he was a young man. William the 4th was getting in 157 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:43,960 brawls the whole time when he was young, that stuff that 158 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:47,400 happened behind closed doors. So, so that's gone and, and, and 159 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:49,840 now they're even undermining this sort of idea of what this 160 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:52,240 from if it, if they're just like the rest of us, just trying to 161 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:55,280 make a buck, trying to buy a ski chalet by flogging stuff they 162 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:57,280 comes across, they're distant. What is the point? 163 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:01,200 I mean, what we, what we don't know, we don't know is I just 164 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:06,400 want to say the allegation is that emails were being passed 165 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:13,560 about forthcoming trips in his role as a trade envoy and then 166 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:16,560 reports of what had happened on those trips. 167 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:20,360 And, and, and I suppose so we've got to be careful about words 168 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:23,280 like flogging because we don't know whether there was anything. 169 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:24,720 Commercially sent in. Return. 170 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:29,880 But I mean, you know, that is just where this begins, so. 171 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:34,159 So this is a lot worse than sex scandals of the past or divorces 172 00:08:34,159 --> 00:08:36,720 because this is criminality potentially. 173 00:08:37,159 --> 00:08:41,440 And also the same police force that has arrested him is looking 174 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:44,400 into much more serious allegations, arguably about the 175 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:51,600 trafficking of women into this country for for Andrew to have 176 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:58,440 sex with is doesn't that, you know, are we approaching a point 177 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:02,920 where this is not recoverable? And and that it goes far deeper 178 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:05,760 than Andrew? Because the questions will pile 179 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:10,280 up now about what the king ever knew the king. 180 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:13,840 The king can't be can't give evidence in a court case for the 181 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:16,640 reasons David has said. Because the king brings the 182 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:19,560 prosecution. It also makes us think about the 183 00:09:19,560 --> 00:09:21,880 role of the Queen. Yeah, well. 184 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:25,480 The late Queen, Yeah. I'm all, all of everything's 185 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:27,560 recoverable. I mean, the British royal family 186 00:09:27,560 --> 00:09:31,280 have come back from the most astonishing problems before. 187 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:34,560 But the by but by the same token, it's also everything is I 188 00:09:34,560 --> 00:09:36,280 think more volatile. We, we know from our political 189 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:39,680 partisanship, we are a lot less. We are happier to change 190 00:09:39,680 --> 00:09:42,240 positions when it comes to vote, you know, voting. 191 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:44,680 We were seeing this on, on either flank of the political 192 00:09:45,560 --> 00:09:48,960 party situation at the moment. So we we are less though I think 193 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:51,920 there's less ballast. I think there's less, oh, well, 194 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:54,000 we've had this system for 300 years, let's not get it. 195 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:56,520 And there's a sense like with Scottish independence, you just 196 00:09:56,520 --> 00:10:00,440 need to get 50% + 1 on one day. And I think that's a real danger 197 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:03,560 for the royal family that this, this is, it doesn't need to be a 198 00:10:03,560 --> 00:10:05,720 kind of world historic, seismic, slow process. 199 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:09,800 It can just get really bad, but for a short enough period where 200 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:12,520 something, you know, it, all it takes is a Jeremy Corbyn to get 201 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:14,720 into office or something like that, and then they've got then 202 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:17,240 it, then it's then they're facing a terminal crisis. 203 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:20,760 David, what do you make of how we're going to look at Queen 204 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:23,400 Elizabeth through this now as well? 205 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:27,080 I mean, throughout all the scandals and all the, you know, 206 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:30,600 the, the, the horrible years, she was the one who was, who was 207 00:10:30,680 --> 00:10:34,880 unimpeachable. There may have been missteps, 208 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:38,240 but by and large she was respected and loved. 209 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:43,000 Is aren't people going to reassess that now and say, what 210 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:46,840 did she know? Was she involved in the payment 211 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:52,560 to Virginia Giuffre and why? We, we know that it's been 212 00:10:52,560 --> 00:10:56,320 widely reported that Andrew, Prince Andrew that was paid up 213 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:59,960 to £12 million to Virginia and Giuffre. 214 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:03,720 And we know that a large chunk of that money came from the 215 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:05,960 Queen. And it is true that people in 216 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:08,720 the palace are extremely concerned that this could affect 217 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:10,840 her reputation. And I noticed that Tim 218 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:15,080 Montgomery on, on their on X this morning posted, you know, 219 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:18,600 thank God the Queen's gone because this would this, you 220 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:20,720 know, this would have been very difficult for her. 221 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:23,680 And I, I, it's interesting if you look at that, the response 222 00:11:23,680 --> 00:11:28,920 to that post from particularly younger people was what about 223 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:32,680 Virginia, Jeffrey? And this is what I mean about, I 224 00:11:32,680 --> 00:11:35,240 think younger people, particularly women, but not just 225 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:42,800 not just women see this as a cover up of, of abuse. 226 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:46,240 And you can never recover from that. 227 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:49,400 I'm quite right too. And in institutions it's it's, 228 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:52,280 it's it's look at what's happened to the BBC post Jimmy 229 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:54,320 Savile and so on, not making comparisons between Jimmy Savile 230 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:57,360 and Prince Andrew. What I'm saying is that that 231 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:01,800 type of crisis is of a whole different nature to a normal 232 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:05,080 reputational crisis. If it turns out and if this goes 233 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:10,560 to court and if it emerges, and I suspect it will, that there 234 00:12:10,560 --> 00:12:13,080 are many people including the police protection people that 235 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:17,240 new things go back to the Emily make this interview in Newsnight 236 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:20,840 2019 clear that many of the things said in that interview 237 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:23,480 were untrue. I mean, it's undisputed now how 238 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:27,280 many people in the palace knew, how many people sat at home and 239 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:30,960 watched that interview and knew that wasn't true and didn't do 240 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:35,200 anything about it and how senior were they and did that include 241 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:38,040 members of the royal family? At the moment we don't know the 242 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:41,760 answers, but if a court case gives us those answers, then I 243 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:44,840 think the institution could really be damaged, I mean really 244 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:46,760 be damaged. I agree with Dan that everything 245 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:50,800 is recoverable. But I detect, you know, with the 246 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:54,120 Prince of Princess of Wales, you know, it's almost as if then 247 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:56,680 some of the things they say. And do you, you wonder whether 248 00:12:56,680 --> 00:13:00,280 they that, whether they've lost the fight actually, whether they 249 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:04,160 actually want the royal family as it exists now to continue. 250 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:06,080 I'm not sure that they want the royal family to continue. 251 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:09,320 But I think in a much more in a slimmed down version, I think, I 252 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:13,400 think The upshot from all this may well be a very severely 253 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:17,640 damaged institution, sadly, with a lot of illness at the moment 254 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:19,280 as well, which is another factor. 255 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:23,360 And in the future, as these these things roll out, we have 256 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:27,600 a, a smaller royal family that's entirely different in nature to 257 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,840 the one that we see now. I think, I think we'll look back 258 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:35,840 at today, the day that Andrew was arrested as a, as a real 259 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:37,960 turning point. I mean, he is a member of the 260 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:41,600 royal family as we sit here is in a cell. 261 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:43,320 Or, or a police station at least. 262 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:48,120 Yes, I mean and, and again, I think for both fairness and and 263 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:52,320 legal necessity, I need to say that Andrew has not been found 264 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:56,760 guilty of anything and denies all the allegations against him. 265 00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:00,640 But something has clearly changed dam which which is that 266 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:05,640 throughout all the these years of allegations, the police 267 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:09,240 didn't move and the police didn't mount an investigation. 268 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:12,480 And and us and other news organisations were going to them 269 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:14,800 and saying, well, what about the flights and what about these 270 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:16,800 allegations? Why aren't you investigating? 271 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:18,360 And you know, the word just came back. 272 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:24,000 There is no investigation. You know, the King spoke some 273 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:27,480 days ago or issued a statement saying that they were prepared 274 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:31,560 to, they stood ready to assist the, you know, the Thames Valley 275 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:33,440 Police. And then the Prime Minister a 276 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:36,440 few days later said nobody is above the law. 277 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:40,240 I mean, these are signals. Presumably, I wonder. 278 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:42,040 It's fascinating, isn't it? I mean, I think that. 279 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:45,560 I mean, but I also think that when, you know, when you publish 280 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:48,920 your inbox, you it's pretty tough to get away from, you 281 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:51,640 know, when it's in black and white and it's not rumour, it's 282 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:53,240 not unsubstantiated. I mean, this is now. 283 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:57,760 It's now there for people to read and it just gets it just 284 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:00,080 gets harder to to ignore and sideline. 285 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:01,720 But I think you're right. Something's changed not in the 286 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:04,040 last few days and I'd love to know more about that. 287 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:08,560 What has also changed, and this is reasons to be hopeful, if you 288 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:11,520 like, which is that it shows that our democracy has changed 289 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:14,080 our our concept of ourselves. A nation has changed which is, 290 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:16,640 you know, this, this just, you know, the Queen's uncle was 291 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:18,920 reasonable, allegedly reasonably badly behaved. 292 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:22,720 Certainly as I said with the 7th paved dreadfully and and was all 293 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:28,400 and was enmeshed in the justice system to a certain extent and 294 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:30,840 had to be removed from that. So in the 19th century. 295 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:34,320 But this is just this is an example of albeit delayed, but 296 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:37,520 this is an example of a of a citizen of this country being 297 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:40,400 taken into custody like anybody else, being treated the same as 298 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:43,520 anyone else. So sometimes when bad things 299 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:46,400 look like they're happening in Democrat, bad things never look 300 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:48,480 like happening in totalitarian states until the whole thing 301 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:50,400 collapses. When bad things happen into Oxy, 302 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:52,560 it's because we are not shy of them, we're not afraid of them. 303 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:55,320 And I think it does say something about Britain arguably 304 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:57,440 moving towards a different, different place, different 305 00:15:57,440 --> 00:15:59,400 relationship with the Royals certainly, but different idea of 306 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:01,720 ourselves. So do we know whether in in 307 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,000 history, I mean, I'm talking about the last couple 100 years, 308 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,160 I suppose, whether the the Royals were in fact protected? 309 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:09,640 Yeah, by by authority. Absolutely. 310 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:12,120 William the 4th was in a brawl, got let out as soon as they 311 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:16,560 found out who he was. They they perhaps there's just 312 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:19,800 simply no. Yes, they were protected. 313 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:21,400 Yes. Yes, they they. 314 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:24,040 Still are, to the degree. I mean, obviously, you know, I 315 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:26,800 don't put it at the top of my CV anymore, but I was editor of The 316 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:29,320 Sun for five years and there were, there were a number of 317 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:33,000 times went during my editing years when we didn't run stories 318 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:35,000 about senior members of the royal family. 319 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:37,760 And that still happens now. And they're not going to say 320 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:40,160 what they are obviously, but they're the royal family are 321 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:42,840 still protected by the British press. 322 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:45,360 There is still a relation, not all the time, but there are 323 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:49,480 rules, unwritten rules. I completely agree with what 324 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:52,000 you've just said about Dan, about the UK. 325 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:54,640 It contrasts so much with the US. 326 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:57,560 The moment, you know, we, we've Peter Manlson has been 327 00:16:57,560 --> 00:16:59,760 investigated. You know, Andrew has been 328 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:02,320 investigated. There are consequences in this 329 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:07,920 country to doing things alleged, to doing things that are, that 330 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:10,200 are, that are wrong. I know these are alleged crimes 331 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:12,480 and we don't know yet. But there are no matter who you 332 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:16,960 are, the police come knocking. That does not happen in the US 333 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:19,440 at the moment. And even if it does, you know, 334 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:22,520 the president will just wipe the slate clean later. 335 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:26,240 And I, I think the contrast between what's happening in 336 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,840 America and Britain, it makes me feel quite proud to be British. 337 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:32,360 And I'm not, I'm not something that rolls myself a flag 338 00:17:32,360 --> 00:17:35,360 regularly, but I am quite, you know, there are. 339 00:17:35,360 --> 00:17:38,040 I completely agree. There are some positives here 340 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:40,280 too. Just, I mean, people will be 341 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:43,400 intrigued by the idea that stories weren't run. 342 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:47,200 Can you just without saying what they were, why weren't they run? 343 00:17:47,360 --> 00:17:50,200 You know who who who would decide to bury them and why. 344 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:56,120 Well, when I was editing The Sun, The Sun was selling 3.8 345 00:17:56,120 --> 00:17:58,320 million copies. It was much, much bigger than 346 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:02,280 than than it is now. And you would have to take her 347 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:06,240 as an editor, you would have to, in conjunction with your 348 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:09,360 proprietary and so on, work out whether running certain news 349 00:18:09,360 --> 00:18:13,200 stories would sell more copies or lose you copies. 350 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:15,560 And I, I don't want to go into mistakes I made, but I didn't 351 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:18,000 make. I did make mistakes and I 352 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:21,560 apologise for them at the time and lost a lot of sales 353 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:25,320 sometimes and those were relatively small beer. 354 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:28,360 So it was it was about the readers not liking this stuff 355 00:18:28,360 --> 00:18:31,120 rather than a sort of an establishment cover up. 356 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:32,840 Yeah. The question is, I mean, this is 357 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:35,320 very, this is really before social media. 358 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:39,520 The question was, will do the readers want to to read this? 359 00:18:40,120 --> 00:18:43,160 Do they want to read this or would they rather not read this? 360 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:46,880 And that still happens now, bizarrely. 361 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,480 So there are many, there are many rumours and things about 362 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:51,880 members of the royal family you can see on social media or in 363 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:54,680 the US. And I'm in the USA lot and I can 364 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:56,840 I read things there. I don't really, I don't read in 365 00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:00,520 the UK and most people in this country may, May. 366 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:05,000 I'm not saying these rumours are true, I'm just saying the idea 367 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,760 that the British press just print anything about the royal 368 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:10,840 family is not true, wasn't true then and it's not true now. 369 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:13,920 But then let's go to William and Kate because because their 370 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:17,680 statements have been much lower level than the kings. 371 00:19:18,360 --> 00:19:21,080 You know, their their statements so far have been about their 372 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:27,520 concern for women and girls and, and they haven't really engaged 373 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:31,200 beyond that. You know, are they are they 374 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:34,160 slipping behind? Do they need to engage with 375 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:36,480 what's going on, or are they right to keep a distance? 376 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:38,760 I mean, I, I think they probably want to keep a distance, don't 377 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:39,680 they? I mean, they must be just 378 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:41,240 desperate. I mean, you do, you spend your 379 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:47,280 life trying to do good works and shape good behaviours and all 380 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:51,040 those things and then you are dragged things totally outside 381 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:53,720 your control, sort of drag you back into these discussions like 382 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:57,000 the one we're having now. We're not talking about the, the 383 00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:58,920 amazing things that they have done, no doubt in their, in 384 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:00,960 their own, you know, their own philanthropic and charitable 385 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,480 lives recently. So it must be it it, Yeah, it 386 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:06,920 must. It's a brutal, it's a brutal 387 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:09,720 tightrope they're walking. David, what do you make of the 388 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:14,000 way they are handling it, given William could be king pretty 389 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:15,880 soon? We haven't mentioned Prince 390 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:19,760 Harry, and I think that's a factor that that that we should 391 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:23,000 just throw into the mix here. He is of course, in in court 392 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:27,880 this week against the owners of the Daily Mail and has chosen to 393 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,600 relieve the royal family and live in the US as we know. 394 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:34,560 That affects, I think a lot of the way that they communicate. 395 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:41,680 But I think on this issue, it is more a case of them wanting to 396 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:45,560 align with Buckingham Palace, aligned with the king, but play 397 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:47,760 second fiddle and they are, you know, second fiddle. 398 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:49,160 I mean, that's the way the family work. 399 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:51,720 So I don't think there's anything surprising actually in 400 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:55,560 a way that they in the way that they that they have 401 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:57,560 communicated. I think, I think it's been, I 402 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:00,440 think it's been fine. And I think it's I think it's 403 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:02,280 fine today. But I do think, as I said 404 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:05,920 earlier, that you can see if you read between the lines where 405 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:08,960 we're going with this, which is, which is just trying. 406 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:12,560 I think they want to try and be a relatively ordinary family, 407 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:16,880 which is is of course a very, very difficult task to pull off 408 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:20,480 because they're not. But but doesn't it also sort of 409 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,320 accelerate what William has been talking about, which is he wants 410 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:27,040 change, You know, I mean, we we have very little sense of what 411 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,320 change he actually means. But in his last interview about 412 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:33,600 how he wants to change the monarchy, which was on Apple TV 413 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:38,400 with a Hollywood star, Eugene, you know, he, he sort of hinted 414 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,480 that he wanted, he wanted a modernised and changed royal 415 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,640 family. He isn't he going to have to 416 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:49,040 accelerate that pretty quickly if his uncle is facing criminal 417 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:51,120 charges. It's really interesting because 418 00:21:51,120 --> 00:21:53,520 even that interview, there was a degree of deference there. 419 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:59,040 And as Dan was a alluding to or talking saying earlier, if 420 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,480 difference disappears entirely, what is the left? 421 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:05,080 And that is the real problem, the real problem for them. 422 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:08,400 And I think that, you know, it's very difficult to maintain 423 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:12,680 difference if you go for a smaller scale Dutch ordinary 424 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:16,120 sort of European style and monarchy. 425 00:22:16,120 --> 00:22:18,960 And I think, and I also think, and I'm thinking back to what I 426 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:22,400 was saying earlier, I think the, the link with Epstein and these 427 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:28,520 allegations about, about abuse, abuse of young women and, and, 428 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:33,640 and, and worse are really damaging. 429 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,200 I, I think are damaging for all generations, but I think for the 430 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,920 younger generations, they're, if you look at the numbers, the, 431 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:45,400 the royal family's approval ratings amongst younger people 432 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:47,520 have never been worse. And I think this is one of the 433 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:49,800 reasons why. I, I love the this idea of this 434 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:50,800 trip down. Like it's always very fun 435 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:52,080 because it's, they talk about change. 436 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:53,520 No one seems to talk about change in their kind of 437 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,680 constitutional legal position, perhaps financial position. 438 00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:58,920 It always seems to be about bulleting uncles. 439 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:00,040 I mean, it's like, yeah, slim down. 440 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:01,120 That's what we need. Slim down. 441 00:23:01,120 --> 00:23:03,200 I mean, we're not in, we're not in Mughal India. 442 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,160 You can't just all the Ottoman, you know, Ottoman Empire, you 443 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,360 can't strangle the extraneous members of the family. 444 00:23:07,360 --> 00:23:10,240 You know, I don't. So I I've never seen a case that 445 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:13,360 that's that somehow this changed monarchy. 446 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:15,960 I don't know what it looks like as an institution other than 447 00:23:16,120 --> 00:23:19,680 please, please can we ignore royal cousins and uncles? 448 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:22,400 And I feel sorry for Prince Louis because he's looks like 449 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,840 he's on the ski jump. But it's this, it's this is it 450 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:29,920 just that it is it I no one other than the king, queen and 451 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:31,840 the heir should sort of have any attention. 452 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:33,720 I mean, what what is what is this new plan? 453 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:35,640 I don't know what it looks like. Yeah, I mean, and it's worth 454 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,040 point reminding people that Andrew is still eighth in line 455 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:41,320 to the throne, which is, which is just bizarre and 456 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:43,200 extraordinary. I mean, doesn't it look as 457 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,320 though the king in his statements, though, is basically 458 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:49,000 saying, OK, you can have him, you know, totally. 459 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,320 He he's the sacrificial lamb to save the monarchy. 460 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,960 Yes, after a very bad start, though, I mean, they, they, 461 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,680 they, you know, they've only caught up recently. 462 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:01,520 Their, their, their, their communications and what they're 463 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:06,760 saying now are, are, are good. And as I've said earlier and 464 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:09,840 said on, you know, when he hits the fan, they are reacting in 465 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,800 real time now, which is why we've seen two statements today. 466 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,520 And the idea that you they put out two statements in 24 hours, 467 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:19,800 just hours after the the police turned up 8:00 this morning in a 468 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:23,000 previous life would have in a previous era would never have 469 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:24,600 happened. You know, if the, if the queen 470 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:27,880 was still, if the queen was still the queen, we wouldn't 471 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:31,720 have seen any of this. So, but the problem is if you 472 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:34,280 are now treating your communications like a, like a 473 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:36,120 government, like, like a government department or a 474 00:24:36,120 --> 00:24:38,320 company, you've got to keep it up. 475 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,360 You cannot say no comment. You've got to react. 476 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,520 And therefore, whatever happens, they have to react. 477 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:49,280 So, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the royal family is in 478 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:52,840 modern times survive because this sort of thin veneer, this 479 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:57,680 sort of gossamer veneer that we can see who they are and we can 480 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,080 see all their faults, but we don't really want to look 481 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,280 through the gossamer. We just want to, you know, we, 482 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,600 we will, we will salute and we'll carry on. 483 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:06,800 And I'm not sure that exists anymore. 484 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,800 And as soon as that goes from a veneer or whatever you want to 485 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:11,880 call it, the, the shield between us and them. 486 00:25:12,120 --> 00:25:17,520 Once that's lifted, what's left? I mean, isn't the other aspects 487 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:19,360 of this, which I think particularly the young people on 488 00:25:19,360 --> 00:25:24,240 social media, you know, are appalled by, is that the way 489 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,560 these stories play out, whether it's Andrew or Mandelson or, or, 490 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:32,280 or any of the other things they, they, they turn in, in the media 491 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,720 into sort of institutional stories, scandal stories. 492 00:25:36,120 --> 00:25:41,320 And the, the biggest scandal of the last 100 years is this 493 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:45,480 extraordinary network of exploitation of women and, and 494 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:49,760 children that was going on by the rich and powerful and 495 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:53,720 sometimes famous. And that keeps getting buried by 496 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:58,160 the latest elements of scandal. And, and, and that if this 497 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:03,760 spreads beyond misconduct in public office to, to the 498 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,840 question, you know, and the allegations that Thames Valley 499 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:12,560 Police are also investigating about trafficking, you know, we 500 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:13,880 keep saying it's as bad as it gets. 501 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:17,960 That's as bad as it gets because that is the worst scandal in in 502 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,600 our modern history, right? You know, forget the politics. 503 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:22,640 It is. And I don't think we are 504 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,080 anywhere near the end of this. In fact, I think we're in, you 505 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,520 know, we're, we're halfway through a volume of, you know, 506 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,360 it's a 3 volume novel and we're halfway through the 1st volume. 507 00:26:31,360 --> 00:26:36,960 Because this is about the powerless and the powerful. 508 00:26:37,360 --> 00:26:40,280 And it is the people that have forgotten are the people like 509 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:43,280 Virginia Jeffrey who took her own life. 510 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,040 And there are many others like that. 511 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:50,760 And the public can see that. And it's really interesting what 512 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:52,760 you just said, Krishna, because I think the media of which we're 513 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:56,720 all apart, really the way the media handles these is that we, 514 00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,600 we convert them into institutional stories. 515 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:03,240 We look at it from the perspective of government, 516 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:07,720 Downing St. the White House, the palace, whereas the public look 517 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:12,400 at it from the point of view of the of the victims and quite 518 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,760 right too. And therefore the powerful 519 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:16,880 people around the world. I mean, what's happened here, 520 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,160 what the New York Times has been brilliant. 521 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,440 There's many comments the New York Times, I forget his name, 522 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,120 who says that the Epstein emails are really important because 523 00:27:24,120 --> 00:27:28,640 they show us how the Uber Uber powerful talk to each other when 524 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:30,680 when they don't think we're looking. 525 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:35,800 And he they're absolutely right. The arrogance, the entitlement 526 00:27:36,120 --> 00:27:38,440 and there's going to be big consequences for this massive 527 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:40,520 consequences. And we're only, we're only at 528 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:42,280 the beginnings of it. But it's interesting, David 529 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:44,520 listening to you because this is a crisis, but the reason it's 530 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,200 delayed, the reason no one didn't think is because it 531 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:51,520 because the social I social ideas, our culture is changing 532 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,880 very fast, right? So, so now the 30-40 a hundred 533 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,040 years ago, the idea that Prince Andrew would be brought down by 534 00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,720 having sex with a 17 year old for allegedly. 535 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:03,880 And but that that fact, just people laughing that what would 536 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:07,000 have brought the monarchy down is getting divorced, having sex 537 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,440 with someone in a same sex relationship. 538 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,920 End of right now. I, I run is that's why the kind 539 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,680 of that's why this this institution is just reeling 540 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,160 because because society and we see it in our own families. 541 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,000 We see it talking to our grandparents about race, about 542 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,080 climate, about about gender relation, all that kind of 543 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,400 stuff. These things are now, as you 544 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,880 say, that would be the worst crisis in history of our family. 545 00:28:29,120 --> 00:28:31,200 But 40 years ago, that wasn't a crisis. 546 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,120 What dare I say was the norm? It was assumed that rich, 547 00:28:34,120 --> 00:28:38,280 powerful men were going to seek out young women to have sex 548 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:40,120 with. It also makes you wonder whether 549 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:43,320 if, if this is the beginning of some kind of downfall of the 550 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:47,280 elite, whether whether we are also at the beginning of quite a 551 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:49,920 big social shift. Yeah, we're wondering where this 552 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,640 where this huge, these huge shifts, where do they, where do 553 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:54,200 they end? And at the end of the day, you 554 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:56,120 find yourself, you can find yourself on the wrong side of 555 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,440 history. You know, only ten, 20-30 years 556 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:02,680 passes and you go from being good lad to being a criminal. 557 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:04,960 David Yellen, Dan Snow, thank you both very much indeed. 558 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:06,760 Thank you. That's it for this edition of 559 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:08,200 the FORECAST. We'll be back very soon. 560 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:08,600 Bye bye.