1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,240 Welcome to the forecast from Washington, DC. 2 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:05,480 We still have the inauguration speech of Donald Trump ringing 3 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:07,440 in our ears. And of course, he's been a very 4 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:10,520 busy man, signing something like 200 presidential orders that 5 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:12,760 have really done a lot to dismantle not just the Biden 6 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:17,320 legacy, but also so much else to discuss the implications of all 7 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:19,840 this. What we are in store for now. 8 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:23,160 I've got 2 guests, Naira Hack, who's a Democrat strategist and 9 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:26,880 used to work for the Obama administration and Deanna Bass 10 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:29,360 Williams who used to work for the first Trump administration 11 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:31,880 and drives herself as a Republican strategist. 12 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:34,080 Welcome to you both. Let me start first of all, with 13 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:36,840 you, Dina. When you saw what was happening 14 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:39,960 yesterday, when you saw all these presidential orders being 15 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:45,200 signed, especially the one that pardoned all the thousand, was 16 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:52,080 it 300,500 detainees, convicts who were, you know, you know, in 17 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:55,040 a jail round the corner from us here in Washington, serving time 18 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:56,960 for what they did on January the 6th, what went through your 19 00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:00,040 mind? Well, Donald Trump told us what 20 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:02,360 he was going to do. And that's one thing that we 21 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:04,959 have always gotten from him is transparency. 22 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:08,120 So I voted for him knowing that he was going to do that. 23 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:09,560 And I also didn't want him to do it. 24 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:12,160 But there were things that were more important for me. 25 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:14,760 And I would say that there were things that were more important 26 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:18,560 for other voters as well. So one thing about President 27 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:22,360 Trump is that he's transparent. He's as he's an open book, he 28 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:24,120 says what he's going to do and he's going to do it. 29 00:01:24,320 --> 00:01:28,040 Now, there were other things. The federal government 30 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:32,400 recognizing that there are two genders, that was important to 31 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:34,400 me. Strength on the border, Those 32 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:38,240 things were important to me. So I feel like, you know, I 33 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:42,360 would rather him not have pardon people who attacked police 34 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:44,640 officers, but I knew he was going to do it. 35 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:46,960 He said he was going to do it and and he did it. 36 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:51,240 But does that make it OK? It does not make it OK, but 37 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:53,560 what? But what you have to understand 38 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:56,680 is that there are other things that are far more important. 39 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:01,320 And I feel like we should get down to to business in in one, 40 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:05,080 in less than half a day. Donald Trump did more, was more 41 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:08,360 active than Joe Biden was in, in a week. 42 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:12,840 And and I won't disparage an American president, certainly 43 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:16,000 not on international media. So I respect Joe Biden, I thank 44 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:18,560 him for his service, and I'm excited that we're in a new 45 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:20,480 phase. Nero, what do you make of that? 46 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:22,880 I do think that that is something very prevalent in 47 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:26,720 American Society right now, this idea that, well, if there's one 48 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:31,240 thing I like, I'm OK as a voter with other people getting hurt 49 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:33,480 or other things going wrong, because I'm now going to 50 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:37,800 prioritize what works for me. And that's part of a greater 51 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:42,280 challenge I think we're having around the world is this idea of 52 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:46,480 retreating into tribalism. And rather than rather than 53 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:52,320 doubling down on the idea of of government, that's not for that 54 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:55,680 that is not right, is doing things to people rather than a 55 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:58,320 government that is doing things for people. 56 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:00,320 So this is this is not a government. 57 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:05,560 Nothing in the speech yesterday that Trump said was about there 58 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:09,680 wasn't a like a unifying theme of how we re knit as a pluralist 59 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:12,440 society. It was very specifically 60 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:16,400 delivering on the things that he said he was going to do for 61 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:21,560 people that voted for him. And, and, and I, I find this, 62 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:24,600 and I know that as a Republican, I have to, I should get used to 63 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:28,520 this because we are once again entering the season of selective 64 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:31,280 outrage. People are elected on their 65 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,920 campaign promises. And for you, for you to say or 66 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:38,360 for anyone to say that I should not be concerned about things 67 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:43,360 that impact my family, the price of eggs, the cost of gas, 68 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:47,760 inflation, things that you know, and I, I should say I'm blessed. 69 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:50,160 I'm married to a retired Colonel who did well. 70 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:52,360 I do well. We don't have the same struggles 71 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:55,400 that most Americans do. But when I go into the grocery 72 00:03:55,400 --> 00:04:01,280 store, even in my middle income and I see that butter is $6, I 73 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:03,960 like my gasp. So there, there are people. 74 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,240 And you look at African Americans and Hispanic Americans 75 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:10,560 in large numbers who were like, you know what, we've been told 76 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:13,240 this over and over again that we should be on Team Blue. 77 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:15,480 But we're getting we're not getting anything for it. 78 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:18,040 And I do not just really quickly, I do not support 79 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:20,880 tribalism, which is why I come on. 80 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:24,680 I'm very clear about the things that I do and don't support 81 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:27,640 about Donald Trump. What we have to have is people 82 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:30,800 who are courageous enough to say this is my party, but not 83 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:32,120 everything thing is right about it. 84 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:35,200 And understanding that that may make me look disloyal to some 85 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:38,960 Republicans, but I love America enough to say that everything 86 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:41,920 isn't great, but I want to. But I want to go in this 87 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:44,600 direction and so. And we appreciate both of you 88 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:47,080 coming on because you both represent different sides of the 89 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:50,240 political spectrum. Just want to get to the pardons 90 00:04:50,280 --> 00:04:53,520 a little bit more before we move to some of the other pretty, you 91 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:56,040 know, jaw-dropping stuff that he announced Neera. 92 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:58,360 I mean, I know there's, you know, those pardons for the 93 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,120 January the 6th crowd were incredibly contention. 94 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:05,400 And like Dina, I've spoken to other Republicans, Republicans 95 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:08,800 who are not happy about them at all because of what they did to 96 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:12,000 law enforcement agents on January the 6th in 2021. 97 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:16,920 But Biden also, you know, pardon pre emptively pardon, you know, 98 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:19,760 many members of his own family as well as some other people who 99 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:21,840 might very well be in Trump's crosses. 100 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,760 That was also pretty weird and unprecedented, wasn't it? 101 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:29,280 It is a very weird time, and I think the Biden administration 102 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:33,960 failed in the early part to recognize that the system, 103 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:36,960 belief in the system and how the democratic system works in the 104 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:40,520 United States had already fundamentally changed and the 105 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:43,120 relationship that people had to it had fundamentally changed. 106 00:05:43,280 --> 00:05:47,440 So the idea that it took multiple years for any 107 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:51,240 accountability for the January 6th insurrection, right, open 108 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:56,800 the door for this idea of, well, if it's technically legal, we're 109 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:59,640 going to start doing it. And Biden, ironically enough, 110 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:02,720 ended up there himself in the last week of his presidency. 111 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:06,880 So Biden was, I think, the last of the traditionalist, 112 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:11,800 institutionalist presidents. And it was inevitable that we 113 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:15,160 would end up with a Donald Trump, somebody who came in on 114 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:18,520 the heels of fun, not only fundamental change, but 115 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:22,240 potentially burning it all down. I mean, I was really struck 116 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:26,440 yesterday by not just the way that he signed the decrees, 117 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:30,160 which was, you know, first in the arena, call it the Colosseum 118 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:32,480 of today, you know, when then throwing the Sharpies into the 119 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:35,760 crowd after he'd signed, you know, one decree after another 120 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:39,120 as if they were kind of baseball caps or indeed Marga caps. 121 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:41,920 When he went to when he was in Puerto Rico for the disaster, 122 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:44,840 disaster relief of the hurricane, he was throwing paper 123 00:06:44,840 --> 00:06:47,920 towels out, you know, very, very showman like in how he how he 124 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:49,880 approaches this. But it's more the fact that he's 125 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:53,040 doing this, you know, he's, he's basically using, you know, the 126 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:55,720 most authoritarian powers that any president can use 127 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:58,520 constitutionally, which is the, you know, the presidential 128 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:02,160 order, the decree which bypasses Congress. 129 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:06,120 He, he's doing that in an arena in front of all his supporters 130 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:10,320 as a very kind of public piece of presidential theatre. 131 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:13,120 And then he, of course, carries on and does the same thing on 132 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:16,760 the Resolute Desk, you know, in the Oval Office and, you know, 133 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:18,280 and is announced every time he does it. 134 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:21,080 There's an announcement from one of his officials about which 135 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:24,400 which particular bit of America's political legacy he's 136 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:25,840 shredding. I just want to hear from you, 137 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:27,960 Dina. Do you think when you saw that, 138 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:31,080 did you think this is something that is fundamentally different? 139 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:33,920 And were you reassured by it or did you think it was a bit 140 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:36,120 scary? You know, I did not think it was 141 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:37,520 scary. I definitely thought it was 142 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:39,800 different. I wasn't, I wasn't, you know, I 143 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:41,920 know that we had to make changes because of the snow and the 144 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:43,840 weather and the cold that you're experiencing here. 145 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:45,560 And so some things change and he was there. 146 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:48,000 But we know that Donald Trump is a showman. 147 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:51,960 And one thing that Donald, not only is Donald Trump dismantling 148 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:56,560 some things that are that that are traditional in America, like 149 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:59,800 Norm that are traditional, but he's also advancing things. 150 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:02,840 And, and you have to look, he the Republican Party has 151 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:05,840 transformed into a working class party. 152 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:08,640 And it's large and not just working class white people, 153 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:12,280 working class African Americans and Hispanic Americans. 154 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:17,760 And it is because Donald J Trump has he has dismantled legacy 155 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:19,720 media as well. Now imagine that's one of the 156 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:21,520 reasons why we're doing a podcast now. 157 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:27,920 This is like there are like he has in one tweet or X or true 158 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:30,480 social. Donald Trump can reach more 159 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:35,159 people than Rachel Maddow on MSNBC, which is one of our 160 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:40,200 networks here in the US. And so he is, he's dismantling 161 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:42,200 everything. Everything is different now. 162 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:45,040 The Republican Party that I grew up in, I'm 52 years old. 163 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:47,800 I started working on my first Republican campaign when I was 164 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:50,880 11 years in Columbus, GA. We elected the first black woman 165 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:53,400 to the City Council in my hometown in Georgia. 166 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:56,720 This is a different Republican Party because Donald Trump is 167 00:08:56,720 --> 00:09:01,600 actually delivering things that other Republicans have held in 168 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,560 front of our head as red meat for, for decades. 169 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:07,120 So yes, it's different. It's, it's you know what? 170 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:12,600 But I will say this, I am, I am a right of center evangelical 171 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:15,200 Christian Bible believing like I'm, I'm all of those 172 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:17,480 conservative, prudish things that you think about. 173 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:20,200 That is me. But I will take this billionaire 174 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:24,880 Playboy who is delivering conservative, the conservative 175 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:30,680 agenda any day over these bland do nothing Republicans who have 176 00:09:30,680 --> 00:09:34,640 delivered absolutely nothing. OK, just quickly, Dean, I've 177 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:37,920 never thought of you as prudish in any sense of, of the word, to 178 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:39,840 be honest. But I just wonder, you know, 179 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:43,400 when Donald Trump stands there in the Rotunda of the capital 180 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,880 yesterday giving his speech after taking the oath of office 181 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:50,800 and says, you know, basically more or less, I'm paraphrasing 182 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:53,400 here, but but I'm here thanks to God. 183 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:57,120 God put me here on this earth to, you know, to be president 184 00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:59,520 for a second time. You know, God help me to survive 185 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:02,960 the Assassin's bullet. He might have added, God help me 186 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:06,200 to stay out of jail. That's the kind of thing the 187 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:08,040 presidents in the past might have said to themselves 188 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:11,400 privately, but not in public and not in that kind of speech. 189 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:14,360 Well, there are those of us that really do believe in the 190 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:17,920 millimeter miracle, you know, and they're like we watch. 191 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:22,760 What is that by the way? That is when the bullet grazed 192 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:27,920 him, 11 head turned the other way, and this man would be dead. 193 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:30,840 And so we have to wonder whether you believe in God. 194 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:32,200 I do. I believe in Christ. 195 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:37,000 Whether you believe or not, you have to wonder what on earth why 196 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:38,560 did that? And we can think of those things 197 00:10:38,560 --> 00:10:41,800 in our own lives like near misses in car accidents, the 198 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:44,880 chance meeting of your, your, you know, the chance meeting of 199 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:47,760 my husband, all of these things. If I had gone to this party and 200 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:49,520 not that party, I wouldn't know him, right? 201 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:52,880 So all of these chance meetings, are they divine? 202 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:56,560 And people who believe in Christ, many of us do believe 203 00:10:56,560 --> 00:10:58,600 that there, that there's something divine about it. 204 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:01,280 OK, let me ask, Naira. I mean, I don't know what your 205 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:04,000 beliefs are, but when when you see a guy like Donald Trump, 206 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:06,680 who's now the president, the most powerful man on the planet 207 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:09,520 who thinks he's got a special in with God, or maybe God has a 208 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:12,160 special in with him, does that reassure you? 209 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:16,280 I I'm a woman of faith, do believe in God, and I also 210 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:20,400 believe that there were voters who put Donald Trump in office 211 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:23,240 and who decided to show up on Election Day and voters who 212 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:25,600 didn't. And the enthusiasm gap was 213 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:28,440 significant. All Trump voters were 214 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:29,640 enthusiastic. They showed up. 215 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:33,600 Now, Trump does have the lowest margin of victory when it comes 216 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:36,680 to the popular vote ever, but he still won. 217 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:40,120 So that is, he's there because of the way the American system 218 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:42,640 works and how voting works and people who showed up. 219 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:46,360 So I would like to give voters credit and voters will get what 220 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:49,160 they asked for. But is is a president, a 221 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:52,800 commander in chief who thinks he's been ordained by God to run 222 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:54,480 this country? Is that a good thing or a bad 223 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:55,280 thing for the? Republic. 224 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:59,920 I think in a country that tech still values separation of 225 00:11:59,920 --> 00:12:03,600 church and state as enshrined in the Constitution as believed by 226 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:06,480 the founders, some of whom like Thomas Jefferson, who was a 227 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:09,040 deist and didn't identify as Christian at all. 228 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:11,360 I think that separation of church and state should 229 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:14,640 continue. But not convinced that that's 230 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:17,760 what Donald Trump or the Supreme Court wants, given the language 231 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:19,880 again, Dina said. He's very transparent. 232 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:23,400 That type of rhetoric of God first before voters, before 233 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:26,920 democracy, as part of a pluralistic society, indicates 234 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:29,600 that yes, that line between separation of search and state 235 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:32,840 is already blurred and will continue to blur under this 236 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:38,000 administration. This idea that the, that the 237 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:41,960 church or that people of faith should shrink from public, from 238 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:43,920 the public square, that's not good either. 239 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:48,360 We should we, you know, and so I, and I don't see, I think that 240 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:53,840 if, if Donald Trump is going back to there being 2 genders 241 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:56,320 and that's like his, his faith is, is making him do that. 242 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:59,760 I think that's common sense. And I think that that his faith 243 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:02,840 is driven of common. Sense, sorry to interrupt. 244 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:04,840 I mean, the common sense is a phrase that has come up a lot. 245 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:06,920 And I think he called it the revolution of common sense. 246 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:09,760 And it's a line that I heard, you know, very much on the 247 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:12,320 streets yesterday in Washington, DC from his supporters. 248 00:13:12,680 --> 00:13:16,200 But if you're the parent of a transgender child, you know, and 249 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:17,920 I'm not talking about the politics around them. 250 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:19,720 You know, I'm just talking about, you know, the fact that 251 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:23,000 there are, you know, some kids, you know, who are uncomfortable 252 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:25,040 in the body that they've been born with and they want to 253 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:27,600 transition. If you're a parent of one of 254 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:31,080 these kids, or if you're one of these kids themselves, then to 255 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:34,480 have, you know, the lead of your country decree that there are 256 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:38,560 only two genders must make you feel very, very uncomfortable 257 00:13:38,560 --> 00:13:40,960 indeed. I think it would make you feel 258 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:44,080 uncomfortable, but I also say that Donald Trump is standing up 259 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:47,720 for girls who don't want to play sports with people who identify 260 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:50,320 in a certain way. And, and, and finally, I think 261 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:54,920 that what we, we have to take a step back and protect children. 262 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:59,360 And if you are a child who feels like you're in the wrong body, 263 00:13:59,680 --> 00:14:04,480 then maybe 10 or 12 is not the age to start making those kinds 264 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:06,480 of decisions. Neera, I mean, was he making a 265 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:09,920 populist point here for his base or was he, you know, does he 266 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,400 actually believe in this and that, you know, or maybe a bit 267 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:14,600 of both? Oh, well, listen, this is this 268 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:20,040 is a a president as a human who has changed opinions over time. 269 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:22,800 Like his consistent thing is that he will change his point of 270 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:25,880 view for what meets the moment as a showman and as a 271 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:28,000 politician. So he was a Democrat, then he's 272 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:29,560 a Republican. He was a Clinton supporter. 273 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:32,920 Now he's not. He wanted the TikTok ban in his 274 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:35,120 first administration. He signed the executive order. 275 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:38,240 Now he doesn't. So he very much a transactional 276 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:43,320 president and he has managed to somehow connect this idea of 277 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:47,200 outrage over gender identity with the price of eggs. 278 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:48,880 I mean, Dina did it in her opening remarks. 279 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:50,880 Donald Trump has connected those two things. 280 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:54,560 And that worked for many people. The connection of the economic 281 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:58,880 grief and the culture outrage, He's been very effective at it. 282 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:02,640 But I need, I need and want a government that will do right by 283 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:05,360 many kinds of people. Because at the end of the day, I 284 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:09,160 don't know what my child or what resources my child will need 285 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:13,120 when they're 30 or 40, whether it's social support systems, any 286 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:15,040 kind of mental health, I mean, all of that. 287 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:17,960 So I I that is the fundamental difference. 288 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:21,000 Neera, I just wondered if I could take you back, both of 289 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:23,600 you, actually to the scene yesterday of the of President 290 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:27,440 Trump, fresh from the oath of office, kind of really shredding 291 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,520 not just the legacy of his immediate predecessor, but all 292 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:32,080 the predecessors who were sitting there. 293 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:36,000 Frankly, you know, ashen faced. I mean, George Bush junior 294 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:38,000 looked pretty out of it. You know, Bill Clinton looked, 295 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:41,440 you know, visibly aged. I think I saw Hillary Clinton 296 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:44,200 shaking her head a little bit. I mean, he was basically 297 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:46,520 shredding his predecessors and their record. 298 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:50,880 And to some extent, I guess you could say they are all of what 299 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:53,160 they did to their office, including Obama. 300 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:56,760 You know, the result of that on one level is Donald Trump. 301 00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:59,760 So, you know, Bill Clinton's behaviour in the Oval Office 302 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:03,160 with Monica Lewinsky, you could say, you know, befouled the 303 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:05,960 reputation of the office in the way, you know, that his 304 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:07,880 predecessors, even Kennedy, hadn't done. 305 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:10,200 George Bush started a war of choice. 306 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:12,920 You know, that was completely unacceptable. 307 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:16,360 It turns out after 9-11, in the kind of white heat of revenge, 308 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:19,320 you know, Obama deported more people than Donald Trump did but 309 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:22,560 kept it quiet. He used drone warfare without 310 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:25,640 putting boots on the ground, you know, again and did it sort of, 311 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:28,880 you know, America's power on the sly, your old boss. 312 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:31,320 And then, of course, you know Joe Biden. 313 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:32,680 Well, we've talked a lot about Joe Biden. 314 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:35,320 Joe Biden may have been railing against the new oligarchy, but 315 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:38,480 these oligarchs, if that's what they are, accumulated a lot of 316 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:41,320 power on his watch. So there's a fair degree of 317 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:43,040 hypocrisy in some of this, isn't there? 318 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:46,520 Nearer. I, I think that they truly 319 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:51,840 believed that this idea of norms and institutions would last 320 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:56,120 beyond any individual president. And I think that's, that's a 321 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:59,240 mistake because at the end of the day, the norms and 322 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:02,920 institutions that we have are, are built on belief. 323 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:07,200 They're built on the idea that people will behave according to 324 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:09,359 that. And as we saw, that's not the 325 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:11,640 case. And Steve Bannon, for you know 326 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:13,920 what, whether he's not in the White House or not these days, 327 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:17,839 called us out early and saw an opportunity and what he calls 328 00:17:17,839 --> 00:17:19,640 the burning down of the administrative state. 329 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:23,160 And they were able to build a consistent movement around that. 330 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:27,440 So there's, there's been it's I to some degree, absent an 331 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:30,640 alternative fighting back perspective. 332 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,760 This is a, this has been for the last eight years, even 333 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:36,600 throughout the Biden administration, a moment of 334 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:41,080 fundamental shift and change for how American systems and 335 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:43,680 American democracy work. I'll end it on this one, this 336 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:47,920 idea of birthright citizenship, which right now the one of the 337 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:52,200 executive orders said that if you are born here as a child of 338 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:55,400 an undocumented person, you are not going to be considered a 339 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:56,720 citizen. That's a very big change. 340 00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:00,040 Many other countries do that. Many other countries actually 341 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:04,680 say that if your parents are not citizens, right, you cannot be a 342 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:06,240 citizen. The Gulf countries do that, some 343 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:08,400 European countries, but this is what it is. 344 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:11,800 This, this idea of birthright citizenship is what made America 345 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:13,920 different. So my question for the next 4 346 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:16,760 years is what? What about America's 347 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:19,160 exceptionality and difference and innovation? 348 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:22,680 Are we going to maintain? Or is America going to be 349 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:26,560 turning into one of these other countries that we've seen but 350 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:28,240 many people have not wanted to live in? 351 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:30,800 OK. Dana, on that point, I mean, you 352 00:18:31,120 --> 00:18:32,520 saw that. Yeah, Go, go on. 353 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,520 And, and this is what this is what I'm going to try to do and 354 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:38,720 what I encourage my friends in the middle of the aisle and on 355 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:40,720 the left side of the aisle to do. 356 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:45,040 You rattled off a a number of things that were kind of 357 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:49,360 hypocritical for previous administrations, both Democrat 358 00:18:49,360 --> 00:18:53,680 and Republican, but because and but Trump stood and kind of 359 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:57,040 called him out. We have to and and like we have 360 00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:59,320 to be able to say, yeah, you know, that that actually was 361 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:02,960 pretty hypocritical. I on the right, I have to hold 362 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:05,920 Donald Trump and my party accountable when we're doing 363 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:09,000 wrong, which is why I say the J6 thing is not right. 364 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:13,560 So we so on the left rather than identifying yes, it's kind of 365 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:15,840 hypocritical. We have like we people of 366 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:19,080 goodwill and common sense. The only way it works is if like 367 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:22,440 I am team red, I'm not even going to pretend from from my 368 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:25,400 ideology to the way I get paid. I'm team red. 369 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:30,320 But I have to have some loyalty to Team America, Team World. 370 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:34,440 And if the left is only going to rail against Trump, then it's 371 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:38,520 not going to work like. On that point, yeah, sorry to 372 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,640 interrupt Dina, but on that point, I mean, you know, this is 373 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:45,400 a country having lived here for 11 years, I kind of I got, you 374 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:47,680 know, very used to the idea that America loves ritual and 375 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:49,280 customs. You know, whether it's, you 376 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:52,720 know, at Halloween or Presidents Day or Columbus Day, you know, 377 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:55,480 the way you do things, you know, is you couch yourself in a 378 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:59,040 ritual much more actually than we as an older democracy, a 379 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:01,600 constitutional democracy, a constitutional monarchy rather 380 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:05,520 do in in the UK. And yet at the same time, you 381 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:08,760 know there are some rituals. That just weren't there 382 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:10,440 yesterday. So, you know, normally when you 383 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:13,720 give a presidential address after your inauguration, you, 384 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:16,480 you, you know, you reach out to the other side, to the other 385 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:20,040 side of the aisle, you at least make a show of bipartisan unity. 386 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,400 I mean, there was a mention of unity almost as a decree. 387 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:25,640 But he did not really reach out to the other side. 388 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:28,560 Why didn't he do that? I mean, this is the a great 389 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,880 moment that he missed because now we'd all be talking about, 390 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:34,400 look at the gentler, kinder side of Donald Trump. 391 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:40,000 You know what, if I and my family had been gone after in 392 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:44,080 the way like every single word, anthrax in the mail to his 393 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:46,840 daughter-in-law in the way that he has, I would, I don't know 394 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,880 how gracious I would be because I'm, you know, I'm Team Bass and 395 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:53,480 I'm Team Williams and I don't know how gracious I would be. 396 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:56,640 I think he is far more gracious than I ever would have been. 397 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:58,960 So I look at that and I say, you know what? 398 00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:05,280 On every turn on, you know, and, and you, you live here, you what 399 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,960 you see the American press on every turn. 400 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:11,680 It doesn't even matter. He is, he could walk, he could 401 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:15,280 walk across the street and give a bunch of poor minority kids 402 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:17,160 $1000. And then they're like, Oh my 403 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:18,840 gosh, you didn't give him $1001.00. 404 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:20,800 It doesn't matter what he does. And I think he really. 405 00:21:21,360 --> 00:21:23,160 That I think he was. That now? 406 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:25,040 I mean it. Would have. 407 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:26,840 It would have been nice. It would have been nice. 408 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:28,560 But but for me, it's not necessary. 409 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:30,920 I want him to get busy. I want him to get, get, get. 410 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:33,360 I'm working. So, I mean, you know, we've 411 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:36,040 we've talked about this before, but you know, for every and I'm 412 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:38,440 talking mainly about the world of cable television here, which 413 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:42,720 is so influential in politics. You know, for every MSNBC 414 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:45,840 diatribe against everything Trump does, I raise you a Fox 415 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:49,200 diatribe for everything that Biden did or Clinton did so or 416 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:51,520 Obama did, for that matter. So, you know, we live in these 417 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,680 sort of weird, you know, silos of information. 418 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:56,320 But I just want to turn to something else. 419 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:58,920 And that's the kind of global footprint Naira. 420 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,320 I mean, you dealt a lot with foreign policy when you work for 421 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:04,920 Barack Obama. It strikes me as if what he did 422 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:08,360 yesterday, you know, with his pen and his words, was to really 423 00:22:08,360 --> 00:22:11,960 tear apart in some fairly important pillars of the kind of 424 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:16,520 global construction which had been built and was pretty stable 425 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:20,680 thanks to America's involvement, WHO Paris Agreement itself. 426 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:23,960 Yep, it is. The idea of the international 427 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:26,600 world order is not something that Donald Trump is going to 428 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,640 maintain as it has been. That was very evident in his 429 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,600 first term. And Biden did work. 430 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:35,200 Again, another norm that the United States would lead Europe 431 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,640 in unity, that the United States would be a leader when it came 432 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:43,480 to investments in countries to counteract China, all of that. 433 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,840 Donald Trump has made it very clear he is not going to do 434 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:49,080 that. So the one of the first acts to 435 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:53,440 while we have wildfires raging in LA and record cold snaps in 436 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:58,840 the South, that his version of climate change action is not 437 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:03,040 going to be a global solution. It's not going to be the United 438 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:05,880 States as part of that. And So what does that idea of 439 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:09,880 American leadership look like? As a former diplomat, I think 440 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:13,360 that it is going to require the diplomats who are on the ground, 441 00:23:13,360 --> 00:23:16,080 working inside other countries and spreading the idea and 442 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,760 message of the United States to really have to operate with a 443 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,400 lot of humility. The lecturing the United States 444 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,280 used to do is not going to hold up anymore. 445 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,880 But the question is, in the absence of that, what's going to 446 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:28,400 happen? Where does the United States 447 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,560 step in and for leadership? Dina, are we now in a world 448 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,600 where might is right? No, I think that we're in a 449 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,440 world where America is stop is tired of stop paying for 450 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:39,440 everything. And I was watching, you know, 451 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:45,960 listening to pundits this morning talk about how in Davos 452 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:50,480 the, the global community is concerned that America not only 453 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,240 wants to be the leader, we want to be the winner. 454 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:55,400 Well, I don't want to be the leader or the winner. 455 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:57,560 I want to be a team player. But a team player means that 456 00:23:57,560 --> 00:23:59,560 everybody's paying their fair share. 457 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:03,000 The, the burden of saving the planet is not on America alone. 458 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:07,760 And, and so I think that I want to be a team player. 459 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:11,240 And, you know, my analogy is like, I always feel like America 460 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:15,920 is the the rich, unpopular girl at the party who's who's 461 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:19,040 continuing to pay the tab just so that she can stay in the 462 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:19,880 party. You know what? 463 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,120 I'd rather not be at the party. But Helen. 464 00:24:23,120 --> 00:24:25,360 But does the rich, unpopular girl also want to eat all the 465 00:24:25,360 --> 00:24:27,240 cheeseburgers? Because what we heard yesterday 466 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,320 about the Panama Canal, which is, you know, it sounded to me a 467 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,960 little bit like a, a declaration of war, or at least a menace. 468 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:35,920 Is that being a team player, Dina? 469 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:40,240 I think that is, that is Donald Trump showmanship again. 470 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:41,880 It is. And I, I don't want to make 471 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:46,520 again, I have to be, I have to walk the walk and talk the talk. 472 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,320 I don't want to make excuses. I, you know, Hillary Clinton 473 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,440 chuckled when Donald Trump said that. 474 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,440 I think many of us, of us chuckled. 475 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:57,200 I don't understand it. I don't know. 476 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:00,080 I need to know more about it before I say if I agree with it 477 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,920 or not. But but in, in the bravado, in 478 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:06,320 the showmanships, in, in the look at us, America, we're back. 479 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:09,680 I was, I thought it was, I thought it was a, a smart Donald 480 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,240 Trump play. The execution of it is is. 481 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:15,760 I don't really understand how that's going to work out. 482 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,480 Well, well, that it could be pretty crucial, couldn't it? 483 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:21,040 Be the execution of all these things? 484 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,720 Is it just showmanship? Is it just bluster and rhetoric? 485 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,560 Or is it actually, you know, military menace at the end of 486 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:27,760 there? Because then we're in a totally 487 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:31,240 different world, aren't we? Well, we are certainly in an 488 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,920 administration now where Trump has people who are very capable 489 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:37,720 and have studied and understand how to use these levers of 490 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:39,600 government to execute these policies. 491 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:44,480 So I, I don't think it's a joke that the idea of an America that 492 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,080 is going to be expansionist and try to take over territories, I 493 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:50,160 don't think that's a joke. I think that, again, as Dina 494 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,880 said, Trump tells me what he's going to do and he wants to do 495 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:54,240 it. The difference between the first 496 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:57,560 administration and this one is that he he will have people in 497 00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:59,640 place who will help him get it done. 498 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,920 Right. So is it no longer isolationism 499 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:05,720 that we should be worried about, but American expansionism back 500 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,320 to the 19th century? Manifest Destiny? 501 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:12,240 The Monroe Doctrine. I listen, you certainly have the 502 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:16,000 the kinds of folks who want to see more power around him, Elon 503 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:20,800 Musk, Mark Zuckerberg, right? They the tech giants who welcome 504 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,760 this idea of American expansion because it benefits them. 505 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,000 So I think there is a through line here. 506 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:30,520 Obviously more more to come. But he's not backed off the idea 507 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:34,720 of Denmark or Panama, and in fact added in more rhetoric 508 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:38,280 yesterday about this vision of America that is expanding. 509 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:42,280 OK, final question to you, Dina. Should Elon Musk be told not to 510 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:46,440 do a Roman salute in an arena? You know, I am not comfortable 511 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:48,760 with that salute either. But I really think that there 512 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,800 I'm, I'm not confident that it was a Roman salute, Roman 513 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:55,800 salute. But no, he should, he should be 514 00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:57,680 more mindful and not do that. Absolutely. 515 00:26:57,760 --> 00:26:59,800 I mean that's the polite way, but there's some people just say 516 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:03,560 it was a Nazi salute. You know, I, I, I, I think Dean 517 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,200 and I are on the same page on this one as professional folks 518 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,480 who've been in this space, like just, you know, when you're when 519 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,200 you're at a podium in a position of power, be mindful. 520 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,040 And I think that's part of what's hard to understand right 521 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,120 now is somebody with the kind of money and access that Elon Musk 522 00:27:17,120 --> 00:27:20,960 has is, are, are these mistakes like what, what is being 523 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:22,800 signalled here? And so, yeah. 524 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,640 Yeah, I guess what we can say about Elon Musk and maybe about 525 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:29,080 a few others in this new administration is that filters 526 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:32,760 are so yesterday. OK, We're going to leave it 527 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:34,360 there. Thank you very much to both of 528 00:27:34,360 --> 00:27:37,560 you for having this civil disagreement about these 529 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:42,080 extraordinary new days in Washington, DC Mayor Rahak Deena 530 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:45,120 Bass Williams, that's it. Thank you very much. 531 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,520 Goodbye from us here from the forecast in Washington, DC.