1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,640 The whole frame of the migration crisis is a racist, fascist 2 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:05,240 frame. The answer is not to blame the 3 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:07,240 migrants. The answer is not to point at 4 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:09,080 the small boats. The answer is to point at the 5 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:11,640 private jets, the private yachts, and to multi 6 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:13,600 millionaires and billionaires. So you're going to be the less 7 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:15,960 answer to Nigel Farage for? Sure. 8 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:18,200 I guess the one difference I would have is Nigel Farage is a 9 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:20,120 one man show. If I'm a one man show, I've 10 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:21,840 absolutely failed as the leader of the Green Party. 11 00:00:22,080 --> 00:00:25,080 You are now going to be running head to head effectively with 12 00:00:25,080 --> 00:00:27,080 Jeremy Corbyn and his new party and you're going to fracture the 13 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:32,560 left. Hello and welcome to the 14 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:34,960 forecast. The Green Party of England and 15 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:38,760 Wales has elected a new leader and the members, by an 16 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:41,880 overwhelming majority, have voted for the candidate from the 17 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:46,360 party's more radical left wing. Zach Polanski's campaign focused 18 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:49,960 more on Palestine and poverty than plants and the planet. 19 00:00:50,160 --> 00:00:54,160 He's a former actor, a member of the London Assembly, but not a 20 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:58,400 member of Parliament. Is he the voice, the face of a 21 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:02,000 new progressive populism that can take on Nigel Farage or, for 22 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:05,720 that matter, Jeremy Corbyn? So very welcome to the forecast. 23 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:07,440 Thanks so much for having. Me on very. 24 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:10,520 First off, congratulations. I very much appreciate that. 25 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:12,080 How does it feel still sinking in? 26 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:15,600 It's a little bit surreal if I'm honest, but also amongst all the 27 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,000 elation and the celebration, and I'm sure there's lots of that to 28 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:21,080 come, there's kind of the moment that we're in, which is a very 29 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:22,640 particular moment. There's failing Labour 30 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:27,040 government reform on the rise. Nigel Farage just this week in 31 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:29,480 that awful press conference around migration. 32 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:31,680 And then you had a Prime Minister who wasn't willing to 33 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:34,400 not even condemn it, but actually implicitly condoned it. 34 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:37,360 So it's a mixed response. I feel really, really good to 35 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:39,320 win the campaign. Of course I do. 36 00:01:39,320 --> 00:01:41,960 I've just worked really hard along with my campaign team. 37 00:01:41,960 --> 00:01:45,240 But there's also a sense of how big the challenges are ahead. 38 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:46,800 But I think we're ready to take them on. 39 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,600 OK, Well, look, you've just started there by talking about 40 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:53,560 reform and migration during your campaign. 41 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:56,560 In fact, during your speech earlier, I heard an awful lot 42 00:01:56,560 --> 00:02:00,840 about the two child benefit cap, disability cuts, wealth taxes, a 43 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:03,680 little bit about water and sewage. 44 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:06,760 I didn't hear an awful lot about the planet in general. 45 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:10,120 Are you now a party about social justice, international 46 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:12,680 campaigning? Or are you still the Green Party 47 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:15,440 about environmental issues? You can't have social justice 48 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:17,760 without environmental justice. But which do you care more about 49 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:19,480 now? I think it's not about putting 50 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:21,720 those on the binary, I think it's about recognising everyone 51 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:23,840 knows the Green Party cares about the climate crisis. 52 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:26,200 We live in one of the most nature depleted countries in the 53 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:27,960 world and we've all got to care about nature. 54 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:30,080 If nature collapses, we have nothing. 55 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:32,720 At the same time, people know that about the Green Party. 56 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:33,920 I don't need to keep repeating that. 57 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:36,440 What people don't know about the Green Party is we want to lower 58 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:38,440 your bills, we want to nationalise the water companies, 59 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:41,200 we want to take on wealth and power in this country and we 60 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:43,160 want to make sure that we're working with trade unions so 61 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:46,880 workers have proper pay, dignity at work and proper sick leave. 62 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:49,200 I think all of these things shouldn't be put in opposition 63 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:52,000 to each other because actually it's the corporations who are 64 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:54,720 destroying our environment, but they're also the same people or 65 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:56,920 same companies who are destroying our democracy and 66 00:02:56,920 --> 00:02:58,960 destroying our communities. This is all part of the same 67 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:00,680 system. I think what's different though 68 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:02,400 is I don't always come at it straight away from an 69 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,480 environmental lens, I come at it from a social justice lens, but 70 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:07,400 the environment is absolutely wrapped up in that. 71 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:11,040 There's no way we can tackle the problems facing our environment 72 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:13,400 and tackling the planet unless we have a more equal society. 73 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:16,200 Is one of those voices on your shoulder louder than the other 74 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:18,280 though? I think it depends on the day, 75 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:20,000 and I think it depends on what's going on in the news. 76 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:25,320 I think a roundabout COP, for instance, this is the meeting 77 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:28,160 that happens once a year of all the countries around taking 78 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:30,600 global climate action. Then climate and environment 79 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:32,640 clearly comes to the front of the things that I'm talking 80 00:03:32,640 --> 00:03:34,480 about. The rest of the time is are the 81 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:36,680 times when we absolutely need to be protecting nature and 82 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:38,920 restoring nature. When I'm not speaking about 83 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:40,400 them, though, it doesn't mean we don't care about them. 84 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:42,200 And it's not that they're still not at the forefront of 85 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:44,760 everything we're doing, it's just that we need to meet people 86 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:46,160 where they're at. And if you're worried about 87 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:49,000 putting food on your table, heat in your homes, whether you can 88 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:51,600 get to work or even if you have a job, then the climate crisis 89 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:55,560 can seem quite a distant thing now, given longer to talk about 90 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:57,040 it. I can absolutely tell you how 91 00:03:57,040 --> 00:03:59,600 the climate crisis is going to exacerbate the inequality that 92 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:02,480 already exists in our society. The working class communities 93 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,000 I'm talking about when I talk about social justice, we'll face 94 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:07,120 the worst impacts of wildfires and floods. 95 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:08,920 They're the people who are least resilient to it. 96 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:11,640 And the horrible irony is they're the people who've done 97 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:13,840 the least to 'cause it. That's both on the national 98 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:15,880 level but also internationally in the global S. 99 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:17,560 We've extracted them for oil and gas. 100 00:04:17,959 --> 00:04:20,680 So these conversations are all part of the same conversation. 101 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:23,200 The question though, is what's the first thing we talk about? 102 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:24,800 And I want to talk about lowering people's bills. 103 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:28,000 OK, let's talk about some of those, some of those things. 104 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:29,480 Let's pick them, pick them apart. 105 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:31,600 How do you actually start addressing those issues? 106 00:04:31,840 --> 00:04:35,080 Are you still, are you committed to Net 0 by 2030? 107 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:37,960 If so, how? Undoubtedly committed to it, and 108 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:39,680 I think anyone who isn't committed to it, that's 109 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:43,080 sociopathic politics, OK. Well, the polls would show that 110 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:45,520 at the moment the vast majority of the public are agreeing with 111 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:48,960 Nigel Farage and they're looking at net 0 by 2030 and say to do 112 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:51,440 that you're going to raise our bills, not lower them. 113 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:53,960 Well, I fundamentally disagree. I think actually when you see 114 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:57,160 polling, 89% of people want to see stronger action on climate. 115 00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:58,960 To come to your question though, so I'm answering it directly. 116 00:04:59,280 --> 00:05:00,960 People don't want to do it if it's going to cost them more 117 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:03,120 money and I don't want them to do it if it's going to cost more 118 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:04,800 money. At the moment it is costing 119 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:06,680 people more money if you're asking them to install a heat 120 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:09,080 pump or you're saying you need to insulate your own home to 121 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:11,920 make it cooler in the summer and warmer in the winter at your own 122 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:13,560 cost. These are the results of 123 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:14,840 political choices from the government. 124 00:05:14,840 --> 00:05:17,320 They're not natural order. We can make different political 125 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:20,080 choices and right now the government is subsidising jet 126 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:21,080 fuels. So if someone's getting a 127 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:24,080 private jet that is cheaper in terms of a government subsidy 128 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:26,680 than if someone gets a train, It is actually outrageous. 129 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:29,120 I went to Sheffield recently. It would have cost me more to 130 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:30,680 get the train than to get a plane. 131 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:32,880 I obviously got the train, but that's the wrong way round. 132 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:35,520 Let's turn that round. But there are far fewer people 133 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:39,040 getting private jets then there are hopping on trains. 134 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:41,760 So yes, those two things, people might look at them and go, wait 135 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:43,280 a minute, that's that's a bit rummy. 136 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:44,920 But the numbers don't add up, do they? 137 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:46,480 By cancelling one, you're not able to pay for the. 138 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:48,800 Other Well, we saw this government freeze fuel duty, for 139 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:50,640 instance. So that's incentivizing car use. 140 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:53,280 That's deeply irresponsible when we have air pollution in our 141 00:05:53,280 --> 00:05:54,880 cities. This often effects working class 142 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:57,440 communities and minority communities even worse than 143 00:05:57,440 --> 00:05:59,560 anyone else. Again, that doesn't have to be a 144 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:01,080 natural order. We can invest in public 145 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:02,240 transport. We can make sure that we're 146 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:05,320 electrifying our railway lines and also within our cities and 147 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:06,680 particularly in rural communities. 148 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:09,200 Some rural communities don't have a bus for days. 149 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:11,560 That's absolutely outrageous. It's ridiculous if you want to 150 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:13,480 get to work or even if you just want to see a friend. 151 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:16,920 Ultimately, again, political choices to incentivize car use 152 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:19,360 and not public transport. Let's turn that around and make 153 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:22,800 sure we're investing in the greenest, cheapest, most 154 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:25,360 affordable option. The fuel duty freeze would 155 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:27,800 impact an awful lot of working class people. 156 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:31,640 Well, so first of all, most working class people who are 157 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:33,360 truly working class don't own your car at all. 158 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:35,960 They're often walking to work or they're struggling to even pay 159 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:37,120 the bus fares. So I think that bit is 160 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:40,160 important. White Van Man would have an 161 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:42,120 awful lot to pick up with you on this. 162 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:44,000 They would disagree with you. And I'd want to have that 163 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:46,040 conversation, that disagreement, because, you know, they'd partly 164 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:47,440 be right. And this is exactly what it 165 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,280 comes to what I'm talking about. They're not the enemy and people 166 00:06:50,280 --> 00:06:51,720 driving around are not the enemy. 167 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:54,400 And again, as I've said, if you do not have an alternative, what 168 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:56,280 do you expect people to do? I can understand why people 169 00:06:56,280 --> 00:06:59,640 drive in rural communities. I'm fortunate enough to live in 170 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:01,360 the centre of London. I can cycle around. 171 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:03,960 Public transport is amazing. That's not most people's 172 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:06,160 experience in this country, and I really mean most people. 173 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:08,480 So then the question is, what are you going to do about it? 174 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:10,960 And I think The thing is to make sure that the money is going to 175 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:12,680 give people cheaper and better alternatives. 176 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,640 Now that's with transport, but you can take this across any 177 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:18,960 measure whatsoever, any option where you want people to do the 178 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:20,680 right thing for the planet and the right thing for the 179 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:23,040 community. Let's subsidized good behaviour 180 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:26,440 rather than subsidizing fossil fuel companies and oil and gas. 181 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:29,080 And it's no coincidence that this Labour government took £4.1 182 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:32,720 million from Quadrature Capital. They're a hedge fund that have 183 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:36,360 assets in oil and gas, arms trade and gambling companies. 184 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:38,320 I think it points to why Keir Starmer and the Labour 185 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:40,120 government are making so many terrible decisions. 186 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:42,360 They're doing what they've been paid to by their vested 187 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:44,400 interests. I have two vested interests, 188 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:47,760 people and the planet. I think Keir in, in fairness, I 189 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:49,800 think Keir Starmer and the government would turn around and 190 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:51,440 say no, they're making those decisions because of the 191 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:53,360 economic black holes they've inherited. 192 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:56,080 But that's just me doing my the. Economic black hole. 193 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:58,480 You know, we first of all knew about that before it even 194 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:00,200 existed and they're making it worse. 195 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:02,560 I almost feel sorry for Rachel Reeves that she's making 196 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:05,760 disastrous decisions to appease the markets and even the markets 197 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:07,320 aren't happy with the decisions she makes. 198 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:09,320 There is plenty of wealth in this country. 199 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:12,160 Since the pandemic started, billionaire wealth in this 200 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:14,720 country has over doubled, whereas our public assets have 201 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:17,160 totally been stripped away. Let's spend money on our public 202 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:20,280 services in our NHS, which, by the way, also happens to be good 203 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:23,880 for the economy. Is your answer then to many of 204 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:26,520 the social policies that you've that you were talking about 205 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:30,520 earlier on during during your speech So to any two job benefit 206 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:36,039 cap reversing disability cuts, is your plan to pay for all of 207 00:08:36,039 --> 00:08:40,000 these policies out of taxing the wealthy more and more When it 208 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:41,720 comes down to it where we're going to get the money from 209 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:43,159 there we go them not they can pay for it. 210 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:45,640 So I think that's the first measure is to talk about the an 211 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:49,280 extraordinary wealth in this country and the huge inequality 212 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:50,960 gap. We don't need to change that 213 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:52,440 inequality gap because we need the money. 214 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:53,680 And I'll come on to that in a second. 215 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,080 It's important to tackle inequality in and of itself 216 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:59,560 because that's disastrous. So yes, to wealth tax or 1% tax 217 00:08:59,560 --> 00:09:02,960 on assets of £10 million or more or 2% on assets of a billion 218 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:05,160 pounds or more could raise about £24 billion. 219 00:09:05,680 --> 00:09:08,440 Alongside that we could bring capital gains tax in line with 220 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:09,760 income tax. Now, the reason why that's 221 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:12,880 important, other than to generate money, is right now we 222 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:16,040 tax earned income more than we tax and earned wealth. 223 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:18,960 I think to most people that's outrageous and a completely 224 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:21,480 ridiculous way of doing things. It doesn't have to be done that 225 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:22,640 way. That's a series of political 226 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:26,840 choices, Thatcher, Blair and now Starmer and, you know, obviously 227 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:29,240 some terrible prime ministers in between that have kept that 228 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:31,960 inequality. But also we talk often about tax 229 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:33,200 and spend. But actually this is the other 230 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:34,640 way around. You can spend on tax. 231 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:37,320 You can make sure that you're spending money on the public 232 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:39,600 sector because it's things called spending multipliers. 233 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:43,520 Every pound we spend on the public sector ultimately throws 234 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:44,880 throughout the rest of the economy. 235 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:47,400 One of the number one things I want to take on as the leader of 236 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:50,240 the Green Party is this myth that the national economy is 237 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:51,880 anything like a household budget. 238 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:55,320 We hear these constant phrases about balancing the books or 239 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:57,720 making tough choices. Why are these never tough 240 00:09:57,720 --> 00:09:59,280 choices for multi millionaires and billionaires? 241 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:02,080 Why are they never tough choices for people earning extraordinary 242 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:04,760 amounts of money while they sleep whilst for rest of the 243 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:07,640 country with our hands, with our mouth or whatever you do to to 244 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:09,560 work are paying more and more tax? 245 00:10:09,560 --> 00:10:12,440 That's deeply unfair and I'm not surprised people have had 246 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:14,280 enough. There's an easy choice for those 247 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:16,160 billionaires and millionaires you've talked about, and that is 248 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:18,200 leaving the country, which they could well do. 249 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:20,840 Well, they can leave, but they can't take that asset. 250 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:23,560 So the Duke of Westminster owns half of Mayfair. 251 00:10:23,680 --> 00:10:26,200 That's about £10 billion or more as as long with many other 252 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:28,240 assets you just can't pick up those and leave. 253 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:30,880 But also I think we should be more patriotic than that. 254 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:33,160 There's a group called the Patriotic Millionaires who are 255 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:36,000 saying please tax us more because actually we live in this 256 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,440 country because we want to invest in this country. 257 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:40,760 Fairy land though, thinking, oh, wouldn't it be lovely if 258 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:43,000 everyone was just giving more in their taxes? 259 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:44,680 The truth is, people aren't going. 260 00:10:44,680 --> 00:10:46,680 To do that, no, I agree. And they give fairly land, which 261 00:10:46,680 --> 00:10:48,120 is why I'm saying let's tax for rich. 262 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:50,480 Now, if they want to give that willingly, I really support the 263 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:52,240 patriotism of that. If they don't want to give it 264 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:53,880 willingly, then it's government's job to make sure 265 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:56,360 that we're taxing fairly. We're not asking for, you know, 266 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,040 anything unfair here. We're saying if you have done 267 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:01,320 extraordinarily well out of your business because we have a 268 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:03,360 National Health Service, because we have a public education 269 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:06,080 system, because of public services in this country, you 270 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:07,720 should contribute to this country. 271 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:10,000 And frankly, if you don't want to do that, then I'll happily 272 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:13,160 wave you out the door. Along with their tax revenues, 273 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:13,840 they could be. Paid. 274 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:15,880 I think if they're not paying tax anyway, we know they're 275 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:19,280 offshore taxing actually they're just leeching off society as 276 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:21,000 opposed to going. We are asking you, a very 277 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:22,920 reasonable demand here, to pay a tiny amount on. 278 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:25,640 Your but they do already pay. I know you would like them to 279 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:27,920 pay more tax. They do already pay an awful lot 280 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:30,960 of tax and they could be walking out the door with the tax that 281 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:32,960 they already pay. I think the awful lot of tax is 282 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:34,120 doing a lot of heavy lifting there. 283 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:36,440 If you look at most of Western Europe and most Social 284 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:39,480 Democratic or socialist countries, they're not paying 285 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:41,400 very much tax at all. And in fact I think most 286 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:44,360 organisations recognize I'm not talking about a little bit of 287 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:45,560 tax here. I'm not talking about someone 288 00:11:45,560 --> 00:11:48,280 who's running the corner shop or someone running, you know, who 289 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:50,160 is self-employed or running a small business. 290 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:52,440 I'm talking about multi millionaires and billionaires. 291 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:55,760 And even then I'm talking about a 1% tax on assets of £10 292 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:57,560 million or more. Now you could reasonably say to 293 00:11:57,560 --> 00:12:00,640 me, by the way, is that enough? And I think it probably isn't. 294 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:02,560 And so I think I've got a role in the Green Party to go. 295 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:05,040 Could we be bolder with this actually and tax the wealthy 296 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:07,040 more? But the fact you get so much 297 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:10,920 pushback on 1% shows you how much corporate capital and 298 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:12,280 capture there is in this country. 299 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:14,680 That's such a basic suggestion that people should probably pay 300 00:12:14,680 --> 00:12:16,560 a little bit more in tax is received. 301 00:12:16,560 --> 00:12:19,000 I don't mean you're doing this, but just generally with such 302 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:21,480 outrage and such kickback. Well, I think it's time that we 303 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:24,400 stop cowering for that kickback and go, if you want to leave, 304 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:25,520 leave. There are plenty of people in 305 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:26,800 this country who are happy to pay tax. 306 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:28,760 And I want people to live in this country who want to 307 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:32,360 contribute to this country. One other policy that you've 308 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:36,360 already spoken about, you've released a very emotive video 309 00:12:36,560 --> 00:12:40,120 during your campaign on the White Cliffs of Dover, looking 310 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:43,240 out at sea, saying, look, the people who are coming across 311 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:47,720 from France in small boats, they've been demonised by Labour 312 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:50,600 and by the Reform Party. But what we didn't hear from you 313 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:53,600 is, well, what's your actual policy on migration? 314 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:56,520 So what is your policy on the small boats crisis? 315 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:58,960 My policy is we can stop the small boats crisis. 316 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:01,240 It's not a crisis, it's a manufactured crisis. 317 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:03,680 And actually we could have safe and legal routes. 318 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:06,240 This has been a manufactured crisis by the Conservative 319 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:08,960 government and now the Labour government to create a backlog, 320 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:13,240 to remove processing centres and to dehumanize some of the most 321 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:16,200 vulnerable people in the world. Now I accept not everyone is 322 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:18,360 fleeing for their life. I accept that not everyone is 323 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:20,080 fleeing from persecution. But let's start there. 324 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:23,040 Lots of people are and lots of people who then get to this 325 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:26,400 country having travelled on a perilous journey, then when they 326 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:28,640 appeal for asylum, do receive asylum. 327 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:31,040 So the idea that lots of people are coming here and they are not 328 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:32,920 deserving of coming here is the first thing that needs 329 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:35,000 challenging. I'll go further than that 330 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:36,440 though. If someone is coming to this 331 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:38,400 country and they're an economic migrant, so they're not a 332 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:40,760 refugee, they're not someone seeking asylum from a safe 333 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:43,200 country, but they just want to come to this country because 334 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:45,160 they want a better life or they see a better life in this 335 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:47,200 country. What kind of message are we 336 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:50,440 sending if we want this country to be so bad that we don't want 337 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:52,560 these people to come here? I think we should want a country 338 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:55,880 that people want to live here. The legitimate question is, is 339 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:57,200 are you going to pay money in tax? 340 00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:59,000 Are you going to work hard? Are you going to contribute to 341 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:01,880 this country? And the answer, extraordinarily 342 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:04,680 so when you look at data, is migrants are so much more like 343 00:14:04,680 --> 00:14:08,080 likely to put money into our taxation system than they ever 344 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:09,920 are to take out in Social Security and welfare. 345 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,520 And just the final thing is we have an ageing population. 346 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:14,480 We have masses of vacancies in the NHS. 347 00:14:14,560 --> 00:14:16,920 Sure, we need to train British people or people who were born 348 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:20,360 in Britain for those jobs, but also, what is wrong with a 349 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:23,200 migrant running their public services or contributing to this 350 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:25,160 country? Again, as a patriot and someone 351 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:27,720 who believes in progressive patriotism, I'm really proud 352 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:31,200 that loving your country and loving your neighbor recognizes 353 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:33,240 that so many black and Asian communities in this country 354 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:35,880 right now are terrified. Now, they're not necessarily 355 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:37,560 even migrant communities. They might have been people who 356 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:40,600 have lived here for generations, but they are still terrified 357 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:43,920 because the whole frame of the migration crisis is a racist, 358 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:46,360 fascist frame. And the Green Party are the 359 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:47,760 party that will tell the truth on that. 360 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:51,400 Now other people shout it racist or fascist, Absolutely not. 361 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:53,880 Lots of them are very concerned that they can't get an NHS 362 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:55,320 appointment, that they can't get a council house. 363 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:57,920 So there's a sense the country's broken and you know what, 364 00:14:57,920 --> 00:14:59,920 they're right. So the answer is not to blame 365 00:14:59,920 --> 00:15:01,960 the migrants. The answer is not to point of 366 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:03,800 the small boats. The answer is to point of the 367 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:06,880 private jets, the private yachts and to multi millionaires and 368 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,040 billionaires and say we will fund our public services, we 369 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:11,600 will build council houses, we will vest in our NHS. 370 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:15,520 That was an awful lot of words, which effectively boils down to 371 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:18,160 what sounds like an open door policy. 372 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:22,080 Well, open door policy sounds like you're effectively saying 373 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:24,800 everyone come in and I just. That's what you are saying. 374 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:27,240 You're saying if you're willing to pay tax and get a job, 375 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,040 everyone come in, right? And so the thing here, Tony 376 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:32,720 Blair was accused of doing this and actually a tiny, tiny 377 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:35,520 percentage of what people expected came over. 378 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:38,160 Now the Labour government and Tony Blair, I think made their 379 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:40,760 first big mistake other than the Iraq war, which you know, to 380 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:43,600 call that mistake is is probably an understatement, but 381 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:47,560 ultimately didn't take on the migration argument at that 382 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:49,680 point. We know that Gordon Brown called 383 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:51,680 Alison Duffy. I think it was a bigger and it's 384 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:53,720 wrong. Gillian Duffy, thank you. 385 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:57,520 For a politician to call any member of the public a bigger. 386 00:15:57,520 --> 00:15:59,160 You should engage with them with the arguments. 387 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:02,800 But the cowering and the kind of refusing to actually take a 388 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:05,440 stance and actually win the argument through the 389 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:07,400 storytelling and through the information, I think was the 390 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:09,720 seeds of what Nigel Farage has exploited. 391 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:11,800 And now we see Keir Starmer turbo boosting. 392 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:15,240 But effectively then those 50,000 people that have come 393 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:20,080 over in small boats over the last year, provided that they 394 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:22,440 went through a safe and legal route you're happy with, or if 395 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:27,720 they're economic migrants were happy to pay tax, you're more 396 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:33,280 than happy with those 50,000 coming to the UK and becoming a 397 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:35,360 citizen here. With the caveats you gave, I 398 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:37,400 think anyone would be foolish to give any other answer than 399 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:40,440 welcome to this country. If they are paying in tax and 400 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:42,800 they're contributing to this country and they have fled their 401 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:45,600 lives or they've come over as economic migrants, then what is 402 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:47,120 the problem? The problem is the lack of 403 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:48,720 housing. So let's make sure that at the 404 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:50,880 same time as doing that, you're building the housing, which we 405 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:52,840 need to do anyway. The polls would disagree with 406 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:56,080 you here. Majority of people in the 407 00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:59,400 according to the latest polls, an overall people are saying no, 408 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:01,840 we do have an issue with that. We do think that there is an 409 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:05,160 issue with too many people setting up home in the UK. 410 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:07,760 And should we be surprised when for decades, and certainly in 411 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:11,200 the last couple of years, we've had constant propaganda from the 412 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:14,880 Tory Party, from Reform Party and Labour mimicking it, And 413 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:16,960 that is telling people that people are a problem, that this 414 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:18,720 is the thing they should be concerned about and whipping up 415 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:21,040 that storm. So we get to why I've just run 416 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:23,400 for leader of the Green Party. We need to give bolder 417 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:24,920 storytelling. So you talked about the video I 418 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:26,160 did and described it as a motive. 419 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:28,119 I think that's what we need. I think we need a motive, 420 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:30,280 storytelling. When Nigel Farage stands on a 421 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:32,640 platform and says these people, your problems, your lives are 422 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:35,480 really difficult right now and they're to blame, I can totally 423 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:37,040 understand why people get caught up in that. 424 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:39,680 I'm not blaming them for that. I'm blaming Nigel Farage, not 425 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:40,960 the people who go along with that. 426 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:44,640 We need bolder stories. We need to be based in facts and 427 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:46,840 information rather than his misinformation and lies. 428 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:49,880 We need to be based in unity rather than his division and 429 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:52,040 actually make sure that it's not enough to have the spreadsheets 430 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:54,680 and the graphs or statistics. I could tell you, for instance, 431 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:57,760 there's a stat that if you use the National Health Service, the 432 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:00,400 person who treats or cares for you is so much more likely to be 433 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:02,400 a migrant than anyone in front of you in the queue. 434 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:05,240 I've been saying that for about 5-6 years and I know no one's 435 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:07,280 listening. Any way that I'm really going to 436 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:09,560 get that through is to tell a story about it, to have a 437 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:11,840 narrative or whether it's a social media video, whether it's 438 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:14,040 a message or a story. And So what I really want to see 439 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:16,640 the Green Party stepping up and doing is telling those stories. 440 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:19,040 And that's not just me being the storyteller, but actually the 441 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:21,080 people with the lived experience all around the country. 442 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:23,120 There's amazing stories happening in the north of Wales 443 00:18:23,120 --> 00:18:24,520 and people doing extraordinary things. 444 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:26,720 Let's hear those stories rather than the charlatans. 445 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:30,080 So you're going to be the less answer to Nigel Farage? 446 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:33,360 For sure I I reject Nigel Farage's politics and everything 447 00:18:33,360 --> 00:18:35,240 he stands for. I think it's also undoubtedly 448 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:36,480 true. We need communicators on the 449 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:38,120 left. I guess the one difference I 450 00:18:38,120 --> 00:18:40,040 would have is Nigel Farage is a one man show. 451 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:42,320 If I'm a one man show, I've absolutely failed as the leader 452 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:44,840 of the Green Party. I want to raise, amplify and 453 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:46,200 lift up the voices of other people. 454 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:48,960 There's far too many people in this party, but more importantly 455 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:50,320 in the country that we don't hear from. 456 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:53,960 I see my job as to yes, tell stories, but to use my platform 457 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:56,160 to facilitate and amplify the stories that are happening 458 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:57,880 around the. Country Are you worried that 459 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:01,680 your style of storytelling is going to be drowned out by other 460 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:04,240 voices on the left? You are now going to be running 461 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,320 head to head effectively with Jeremy Corbyn and his new party 462 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:08,480 and you're going to fracture the left. 463 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:10,960 I'm not worried about it all. I've been worried that my voice 464 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:14,040 or the left voice might be drowned out by fascism and the 465 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:16,080 far right. So if we end up in a place where 466 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:19,480 me, Jeremy Corbyn or Zara Sultan or whoever it is are competing 467 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:23,640 to be bolder, to be more progressive, to be able to offer 468 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:26,840 even more tangible solutions to the country, I think that's all 469 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:30,000 really, really healthy. However, I think people are sick 470 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,920 of people fighting and they're sick of competition in this 471 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:34,720 country and they want a different kind of politics. 472 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:37,160 Let's start with the fact I really like Jeremy Corbyn and 473 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:39,200 Zara Sultan. Politics aside, I also really 474 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:40,680 like their politics. Would you want them in the Green 475 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:41,480 Party? Absolutely. 476 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:43,400 I don't have to think for a second about that. 477 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:45,720 It's not my decision. That would be up to a democratic 478 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:46,920 body. If you ask me a straight 479 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:48,120 question, I'll give you a straight answer. 480 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:52,120 I think in terms of what does that future look like, that will 481 00:19:52,120 --> 00:19:54,040 be up to our membership and potentially their membership, 482 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:55,360 whatever it looks like in future. 483 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:58,000 I'm not outsourcing that. I have an opinion, but it's 484 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:00,120 important to say that, you know, we're a Democratic Party and 485 00:20:00,120 --> 00:20:02,560 we'll make those decisions. I think when you've got brave 486 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:05,480 politicians, whether they're Jeremy Corbyn or Zora Sultana or 487 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:08,000 Faiza Shaheen for that example, there's lots of people I can 488 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,400 name and they're saying the things that you agree with. 489 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,040 I think it would be wild to do anything but welcome that. 490 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:17,680 I'm so sick of being on panels where I argue with some fringe 491 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:19,520 right winger. You know, previously it would 492 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:20,640 have been about the climate crisis. 493 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:22,440 Whether it exists or not, that's not balance. 494 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:24,560 And actually, I think it'd be a really healthy balance to have 495 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:26,560 some more voices on the left that I don't have to agree with 496 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:28,480 on everything. We just have to have a common 497 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:30,040 cause. And essentially what we're 498 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:33,080 saying is together, united, and I don't mean United necessarily 499 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:34,880 in the parties, although maybe that's where we're going or 500 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,280 maybe it's not. It's too early to say, but 501 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:40,640 united in message, united in what we're trying to achieve in 502 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:42,400 this country, I think that's brilliant. 503 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:45,280 And I, having just been elected today as leader of the Green 504 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:47,560 Party, really welcome that. I want more diversity of 505 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:49,440 messengers. So that sounds an awful lot like 506 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:51,880 you would you would look at Intellectual Pact. 507 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,040 It's not. A no though. 508 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:57,880 It's not a no, but I'll give you an example of what would be a no 509 00:20:58,120 --> 00:20:59,640 George Galloway was anywhere to do with it. 510 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:01,240 That would be enough for me to to step out. 511 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:03,840 Now, I'm not slurring here. I have no idea if George 512 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:05,520 Galloway is going to be involved or if he wants to be. 513 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:08,320 But it's just an example of I don't know enough about what 514 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:10,440 that new movement is and they don't know enough about that new 515 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:11,840 movement because they're not set it up yet. 516 00:21:12,120 --> 00:21:14,000 To answer that question in any satisfactory way. 517 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:16,280 What I can offer you are my principles and the party's 518 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:18,000 principles. We're a party that believes in 519 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,320 cooperation, that believes in collaboration, that believes we 520 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:22,400 are stronger when we work together, them being. 521 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,000 That all being said, the Green Party are at a moment now where 522 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:30,040 we've just elected a leader on a very obvious platform, which is 523 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:33,040 about challenging social injustice in this country and 524 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:36,000 challenging the climate crisis, also the ongoing genocide in 525 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:37,680 Gaza. These are all issues that we 526 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:39,200 know people in this country care about. 527 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:42,560 We got 39 second place finishes of the last general election. 528 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,280 We got nearly 2 million votes in London in May. 529 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:47,560 I'm absolutely committed and determined to see lots more 530 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:51,480 councillors also in Birmingham, S Tyneside and Greens in the 531 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:53,320 centre for the first time. There's lots of other places 532 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:55,760 too. That's a really exciting moment 533 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:58,040 and what we're not doing at the moment is deciding what a 534 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,280 platform is or deciding what our organization is. 535 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:02,280 So this is no slight on anyone else. 536 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:03,760 Anyone is entitled to do what they do. 537 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:06,720 But I would say to the country, if you want a bolder politics, 538 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,040 if you want the kind of politics that is being talked about right 539 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:10,400 now, you don't need to wait for it. 540 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:12,520 Join the Green Party. The first real test of that 541 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:15,400 could be the Senate elections in Wales. 542 00:22:16,360 --> 00:22:20,720 If Jeremy Corbyn's party gets off the ground and it looks like 543 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,040 they're the sort of people you could be doing business with, 544 00:22:23,360 --> 00:22:26,080 Are you entertaining electoral pacts, non compete clauses with 545 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:29,960 them to get more left wing voices into the center? 546 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,560 So again, the caveat, I'm afraid that will be up to the Wales 547 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,160 Green Party, but I'm going to give you an opinion I actually 548 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:38,240 would entertain, not necessarily electoral packs initially, but 549 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:40,480 non compete clauses. I think that just makes sense 550 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:42,920 that if you are targeting a certain group of seats and 551 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:45,160 you're working with people who are also targeting a certain 552 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:47,240 group of seats, why wouldn't you have that conversation? 553 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:48,520 Now that doesn't need to be formal. 554 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:50,320 It doesn't need to be an electoral packed, it just needs 555 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:52,600 to be the membership going. Actually, there's enough 556 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:54,800 commonality here. What is the point in fighting 557 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:56,440 each other when actually we could challenge the Labour 558 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:58,240 government and reform? I think that'll be a positive 559 00:22:58,240 --> 00:22:59,760 conversation, but it'll be up to the membership. 560 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,640 Some people looking at this could say you might end up 561 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:07,360 having more in common with Jeremy Corbyn and some other 562 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,920 left wing groups out there than you do with some of your own M. 563 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:14,640 PS I think that's a fundamental misunderstanding of the party. 564 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,160 In fact, I said today to Ellie, and I've said during the 565 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,200 campaign many, many times that when she stands up and 566 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,360 challenges the Foreign Secretary on the ongoing genocide in Gaza, 567 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,120 never mind the fact I'm now Green Party leader, as a Green 568 00:23:25,120 --> 00:23:26,760 Party member, I couldn't be prouder. 569 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,560 When Adrian is talking about NHS dentistry and the need for 570 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:34,120 ultimately funding our public services, those are positions 571 00:23:34,120 --> 00:23:35,320 that I'm absolutely aligned with. 572 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:37,160 I think you know, is there a difference in fact? 573 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,960 When Adrian was asked repeatedly interview whether or not he 574 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:41,720 likes you and you couldn't say yes. 575 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:43,040 I mean, it's absolutely ridiculous. 576 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:44,760 I mean, people need to come up with an answer about whether 577 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:46,920 people like each other or not. But I also think it's. 578 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:48,880 It would help. There's only you've only got 4 579 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,280 MPs, right? So 1/4 of them can't say round 580 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,480 and say yeah, no, the leader. Yeah, I like him. 581 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:55,800 And I'm not going to like you, you know, I go what come up with 582 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:57,840 an answer. But I also think how irrelevant 583 00:23:57,840 --> 00:23:59,640 is that me and Adrian have worked with each other for the 584 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:01,080 last three years in a leadership team. 585 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:03,480 Not only if we work together, we thrive together. 586 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:05,600 It's been some of the best election results for in fact, it 587 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:07,720 has having the best election result the party's ever had. 588 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:09,000 So I know that professional. Relationship. 589 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,120 I suppose the reason why some people look at this and say it 590 00:24:11,120 --> 00:24:14,000 matters is because when they look at the Greens in power, 591 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:17,800 when they look at Brighton council, first council that you 592 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,920 managed to to lead and then that didn't end terribly well. 593 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:25,400 They look at you've got 4 MPs now in the last year, they look 594 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:27,800 at they've got the new leader and one of the MPs kind of say 595 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:29,880 he likes the leader. An awful lot of people will be 596 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,880 looking at it and saying actually how credible are these 597 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,800 guys when it comes to lead leading. 598 00:24:36,120 --> 00:24:38,280 I reject that entirely. I don't think people in politics 599 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:40,600 want to know that the politicians can go for a pint 600 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:41,840 together. In fact, I think they'd be even 601 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,200 more impressed if they go for whatever reason. 602 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:46,280 You're you're not best at friends, but actually you're 603 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,080 working really professionally, incredibly together and you're 604 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:49,120 going to turn this country around. 605 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:51,680 I think that's what matters. In terms of Brighton, I'm really 606 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,320 proud of some of the results in Brighton building record social 607 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:56,520 housing, for instance, and some of the initiatives that were 608 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:57,960 pushed I think were really successful. 609 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:00,080 I also think there's a warning shot there for the exact 610 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:04,400 conversation we've been having. Labour were absolutely so 611 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:08,080 determined and so ready to bring the Green Party down way and 612 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,280 above than they've ever competed with any other political party. 613 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:13,680 I don't want to create that relationship with parties on the 614 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:15,560 left if Labour have chosen to do that. 615 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:17,520 And in fact I, I only, I've not seen it myself. 616 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:19,760 I've heard Labour have come quite hard for me today. 617 00:25:20,120 --> 00:25:22,760 I think it shows the pettiness of the fact I'm talking about 618 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:24,480 inequality. I'm talking about the fact 619 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,880 lifting up working class voices. You would think a Labour Prime 620 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:30,040 Minister or Sadiq Khan, who I work with regularly and I do 621 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:33,000 challenge him, but also there's moments of cooperation there 622 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,360 would go actually. I welcome the fact that there's 623 00:25:35,360 --> 00:25:38,240 a new left wing progressive voice in British politics for 624 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:39,480 whatever reason. Here's why you should vote 625 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:40,960 Labour and not Green. But they've not made that 626 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:42,760 argument. They have completely in the most 627 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,920 petty tactics possibly, but gone for me and I think what that 628 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,560 says is they are terrified and I couldn't be more pleased because 629 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,360 right now they are more scared of losing votes and seats to the 630 00:25:51,360 --> 00:25:53,080 Reform Party than to the Green Party. 631 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,440 What does success look like in the next few months? 632 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:57,960 I want Keir Starmer to be more worried about the Green Party 633 00:25:57,960 --> 00:25:59,880 than Reform. Absolutely convinced we can do 634 00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:03,720 it by growing on membership. Conscious of time, so let's go 635 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:05,800 through a few months that hopefully will be a little bit 636 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:07,960 quicker. And look, first of all, one 637 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:11,200 policy issue, NATO. Are you committed to NATO? 638 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,760 So the Green Party policy is to stay in NATO, but to reform it 639 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,480 from within. So asking everyone to take down 640 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:19,480 their nuclear weapons and not be a nuclear alliance. 641 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:20,760 Now I think there's a legitimate. 642 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:22,440 That's not going to happen. Well, I also agree. 643 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,920 And I also think since then, Donald Trump has been elected. 644 00:26:26,360 --> 00:26:29,480 This is a man who calls Vladimir Putin his friend, meanwhile, 645 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:31,320 humiliates Zelensky in the White House. 646 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:33,240 He's also threatening to annex Greenland. 647 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,200 So if anyone supports NATO wholeheartedly, my question to 648 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,200 you is, what are you going to do about that now? 649 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,480 I think it's clearly not the time to leave NATO when all of 650 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:42,800 this is going on. But what it is time for is to 651 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,080 begin conversations about what does an alternative alliance 652 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:47,080 look like? We've gone through Brexit, an 653 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,400 absolute disaster largely caused by Nigel Farage, a man with the 654 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,440 audacity to then return to the mainstage and say I've got some 655 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:55,160 other ideas of institutions you can leave. 656 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:57,600 Horrendous. The difference there though was 657 00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,400 we could have reformed Europe from within. 658 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,600 The question is, can we reform NATO from within with Donald 659 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:04,880 Trump or not even Donald Trump? America is an imperial power 660 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:07,640 with the increasingly erratic decisions it's made. 661 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:09,920 Is that the alliance in a special relationship we want? 662 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:12,160 I think for now it's too soon to break away. 663 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,320 But we should absolutely be talking to our European 664 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,200 neighbors and saying what does an alliance look like based on 665 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,400 peace and diplomacy, and that isn't reliant on a special 666 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,480 relationship with a man who wants to turn Gaza into luxury 667 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:25,320 condos. So at some point in the future 668 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,840 you could conceivably see leaving NATO in favour of some 669 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:30,640 other alliance with European partners. 670 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:32,400 Yeah. And it depends what sometime in 671 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,000 the future means. That could be five years or 20 672 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:35,160 years. But what I'm arguing, and I 673 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,440 don't think it's a contention position actually wants, is 674 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:39,160 explained. I think many NATO members will 675 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,000 see it at the contention issue and say that what you're saying 676 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:43,960 now will make the world an unsafer place. 677 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:45,680 Well, I'd look at the world right now and I don't think it 678 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:47,760 could be much unsafer. And I think it's them putting 679 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:49,720 their heads in the sand if they think that the situation right 680 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:51,800 now is OK. And the complete breakdown of 681 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,680 international order where Israel are committing A genocide that's 682 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:56,920 not being just talked about, but it's being live streamed. 683 00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,800 And then we have the head of NATO kind of nodding on along 684 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,640 with Donald Trump and Benjamin Netanyahu that is losing its 685 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:05,200 moral authority. On Israel. 686 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,680 Its moral authority. On Israel, you're the leader of 687 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:09,800 a major political party now. If you're right in the manifesto 688 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,200 tomorrow, what is your Israel? Policy well, as well as being a 689 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,480 leader of a major political party and one of only 5 Jewish 690 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,600 leaders in the last 100 years. So that's a position I take 691 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,160 seriously, both in challenging anti-Semitism and Islamophobia 692 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,920 in this country at the same time, and it's in completely the 693 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:26,920 same breath. So the fact that David Lammy and 694 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,160 Keir Starmer shrug their shoulders and make sad faces 695 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,440 about the genocide, yet continue to sell them arms is an absolute 696 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:34,680 moral outrage. So we must stop selling arms to 697 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:35,760 Israel. We must stop sharing 698 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,640 intelligence to Israel, and we must be arresting the people 699 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,760 responsible for war crimes. That would be my policy on 700 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:43,840 Israel. OK, Labour would say. 701 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:47,320 Actually, they are bringing up regularly all of Israel's 702 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:51,080 transgressions with Israel and this is what they should be 703 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:53,520 doing as a major Western. Power, I mean, I could bring up 704 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:55,240 lots of things with you, but if I don't take the action 705 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:57,040 necessary, then, you know, it's a bluff. 706 00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:58,840 And if you carry on doing that, then you might think we're in 707 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:00,880 cahoots. And so I think when people say, 708 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,000 you know, that David Lammy and Keir Starmer are having strong 709 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,240 words with Benjamin Netanyahu at the same time as we're seeing 710 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:10,400 the charred out bodies of children and men and women, then 711 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:14,040 I think it's time to it's long time to look at different policy 712 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,280 more widely. It is time for a free Palestine. 713 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,200 It's time to to end the occupation and to recognise that 714 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:21,120 we have an apartheid state clearly, and I think it's 715 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:25,040 important that politicians do not waiver from the clarity and 716 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,840 the necessity to make sure that's very clear. 717 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,760 OK, an awful lot of interest to say it's not an apartheid state. 718 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,080 There's a very clear definition around around that, and that 719 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,240 isn't the case. As Ash Sarkar said recently, I 720 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,160 could say I'm 6 foot 5 and I might want to believe it, but 721 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:38,960 it's not true. Also, we're speaking on a day 722 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,120 where genocide scholars, again another set, are saying this is 723 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:46,120 undoubtedly a genocide. OK on another issue which could 724 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:50,240 not be further apart but be remissive along you not to Lot's 725 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:53,600 release address it OK Many years ago when you were a 726 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:57,440 hypnotherapist, there was an undercover operation by a 727 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:04,200 newspaper and you were filmed saying that it was possibly 728 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:08,760 possible to grow a woman's breast by using the power of 729 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:12,280 hypnotherapy and thought so. For the record, do you believe 730 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,360 that you can grow breasts or any other body part through the 731 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:16,760 power of? Thought no, that's absolutely 732 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,080 it, Said also I should say it wasn't an undercover operation. 733 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:21,520 So way before I was a politician, a Sun journalist 734 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:23,760 approached me and said could I do an article on body image? 735 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,600 The article misrepresented me and I went out on record that 736 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:28,160 day to say it's misrepresented me. 737 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:30,720 I still apologize, though, and apologize back then. 738 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,200 I stand by that apology. One of my favorite politicians 739 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,720 is Tony Benn, and he had a key phrase which is I'm not 740 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:37,360 interested where you've been, I'm interested where you're 741 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:39,720 going. And I think the fact that this 742 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,760 story sometimes gets brought up largely by Labour, at the same 743 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,800 time as I'm talking about taxing inequality, you can see why it 744 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,160 might be a distraction. But they've brought it up today 745 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,920 and for a lot of people who, well, the best one in the world 746 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,160 is that may have never have heard of you before, all right, 747 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,160 But this will be their first introduction to you. 748 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,680 And it'll be some story about, well, this bloke thinks that you 749 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:00,600 can grow body parts by thinking about it. 750 00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:02,480 So. So how do you address it? 751 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,600 Are you worried about how you get across to all those voters? 752 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:07,200 Well, it's why it's really important that I say this 753 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:08,680 doesn't represent me and I've apologised. 754 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,440 Here's a record I've had over the last few years as an elected 755 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,800 member of the London Assembly, as deputy leader of the Green 756 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,080 Party, and here's what I've done to represent the values. 757 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:17,760 That article absolutely didn't represent me. 758 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:19,960 It doesn't represent me today. It didn't represent me then. 759 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,640 I think, you know, I welcome if people are starting to pay 760 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:25,840 attention to me for the first time and I think once we've 761 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:27,880 dealt with that, then I'd hope they see all the other things I 762 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:29,320 stand for and that's going to be an easier. 763 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:36,280 Conversation Just lastly, it was it was notable in your speech. 764 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,680 You look quite moved when you were talking about your partner. 765 00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:46,960 Are you ready for the toll on your personal life that a career 766 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:51,360 in national politics, not just local politics, albeit of of the 767 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,960 capital, can have on someone's personal life and, and just how 768 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,040 intrusive this is now going to be on your on your life? 769 00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:59,120 I'm not ready for it. And I suppose I'd turn that 770 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:01,160 question around to any journalist and say, how can we 771 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,400 make sure that we scrutinize politicians in a democratic and 772 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:05,880 accountable way, but in a way that doesn't intrude on their 773 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:07,760 personal life? The reason why I got emotional 774 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:09,560 is because Richie, my partner, means everything to me. 775 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,280 It's also, I mentioned he works in palliative care. 776 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,160 And I think it was both love for my partner, but also the 777 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:17,160 recognition of, you know, I've just been elected to this 778 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:18,840 amazing role. But there are people out there 779 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,040 every single day doing amazing things and they don't have the 780 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:22,680 title of the microphone that I do. 781 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:25,520 And so I think it was just a realization both that I could 782 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,360 acknowledge my partner but also acknowledge the incredible 783 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:30,600 people who do. So I'm feeling emotional again, 784 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,000 incredible people who keep this country running every day, who 785 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,560 are out there doing incredible things that we just often don't 786 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,120 hear about. And I think that's pretty 787 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,400 humbling. SAT Polanski, thank you very 788 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:41,840 much for joining us. Thanks so much for having me. 789 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:43,200 Thank you. That's it for this episode of 790 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:44,760 The FORECAST. Join us next time.