You're in therapy for 10 years and you're not changing.
It's not working. What are you letting into your
home? What music are you listening to?
Because you're opening a door for the enemy to speak
depressive songs over you. I've had pushback.
How dare you say that my anxiety and my depression can be healed
because I've tried. I've tried, and I think that's
the problem. They're trying rather than
surrendering. We need a generation that needs
to renew their mind rather than study their mind.
Fill the presence of God with crystals or with stones or my
astrology. It makes sense to me.
I want to tell you, you can't just throw a Christian name on
manifestation. That's right.
You cannot just throw a Christian name on yoga.
We've got. A generation that has not been
taught that so they've gone to man made solutions.
Welcome to the least of your podcast.
I am so excited about today's topic.
We are going to be talking about the Holy Spirit, the counselor,
the one that is our guide, the one that is our comfort, the one
that is leading us. And before I even dive into
that, I want to thank the people that make this podcast possible.
We are so thrilled. We just hit 250,000 subscribers.
Thank you for being part of this community.
And we are just going to dive right into this.
Alex, you have written a book, The Divine Counselor.
You and I both know people are going to therapy, they're going
to counselors, they're studying themselves, and there has never
been a greater need for divine counsel.
Tell me about your experience and your hope for this book, The
Divine Counselor. Well, I I have been desiring to
write this book for a very long time.
It's been our message. It's been everything since I was
a young girl because I had such a profound experience as a
little girl. And you can't question when an
11 year old gets baptized in the Holy Spirit.
And can you explain that? Because there's going to be
people out there like what? Yeah, There was something called
the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Yeah, so I got saved.
I invited Jesus to be my savior at 11.
And I remember my little counselor lady, she would come
and she would go through the basics of Christianity every
Monday night at my home, which was just so beautiful.
And she was like discipleship. And she talked about the Holy
Spirit because I said, how do you hear God's voice?
And she said, well, you've, I already heard God's voice and it
was through Holy Spirit because he drew you to respond to Jesus.
And I was like, I heard the Holy Spirit's voice.
And so she began to talk to me about the Holy Spirit.
So I was like, I want more of this.
And then she talked to me about being baptized in the Holy
Spirit because it gives you boldness and power to live
righteously. And so I was like, well, I want
that. And so I remember getting saved
and feeling the weight of sin lift off of my shoulder.
So I knew it was real because I hadn't done anything wrong per
SE at the I was 11. But that's how I know salvation
is so real because we're all separate from God.
So I felt the love of Jesus that week, but the week after I was
so hungry for another encounter that I went back to my parents
little Italian evangelical church and the pastor was not
preaching about this, but I was so hungry that I just went to
the altar at the end of service. He didn't know what to do with
me, but I just raised my hands and I said I want to be filled
with the Holy Spirit. And I kid you not, I remember it
like it was yesterday. I felt an immersive experience.
I felt like I was being washed over with this heat and I began
to cry and my prayer language unlock.
No one laid hands on me, no. Did you even know there was such
a thing as a prayer language? Yes, I did because my mother
used to pray and I thought it was gibberish at that.
You know, when I was a young kid, my brother and I would make
fun of my mom, be like when she prays, she says like and we
would make up these words. But I always knew she was
praying to God, but I didn't really understand it in its full
capacity. And so when I got baptized, I
can't explain it, but again, that feeling of being immersed,
the feeling of being empowered, I went back to school that week.
I went to a Catholic private school.
And the power and the boldness that I felt to share my faith
was different to my salvation experience.
And I remember the teachers and people around me going, what is
it about you? I remember getting banned from
confession because I had the boldness to tell father Liberacy
banned. Banned I got.
Banned. That was the third because.
I said, Father liberacy, I don't need to mediate my sin with you
because I've already, you know, being forgiven.
Christ is my mediator. And so he was like, parents got
called in. But the crazy part is I had this
beautiful nun as a teacher. And when she was talking to my
mom, she says, I can't help but see a radiant brilliance over
Alex. And I can't explain it.
And my mom was able to share that it's the power of the Holy
Spirit. Ever since that day that I was
baptized, it wasn't just about speaking in tongues.
It was I was given a supernatural authority and
power. I was moving in the gifts of the
Spirit at a young age. I was prophesying over people.
I was having words of knowledge because then I began to learn
about it at church. And I believe that this power
that's been neglected in the church is such an important tool
for us to overcome life's issues.
It helps us overcome the the the things that we're facing,
especially now. Why I felt I had to write it now
is because we are inundated with mental health issues and
brokenness. And the answer is found in the
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So Alex, you mentioned that often there is just not room for
people to experience the Holy Spirit in a church service.
They come in, they come out, they're rushing, they're getting
their kids. How have you been able to foster
that at the Boeing and Co? Yeah, well, first of all, it's
got to be in the minister's life.
Like this is a private relationship that at church
you'll see the overflow of. I don't think you can just get
up there and use the language because I've actually been in
meetings where they say the Holy Spirit is present and I can't
sense Him or feel because just saying it doesn't make it happen
again. It has to be an overflow.
So there is so much that goes on in the secret place between my
team, Pastor Henry and I that so that when I go into a meeting, I
already know where got what God wants to do in that meeting.
And So what we do is we leave space.
We leave space in the worship. You know, we say we plan for
everything, but we prepare for God to disrupt us.
And I think most ministers don't actually know what to do in
those quiet moments. I'm not afraid of awkward
moments. And so we do that in through the
worship. If there is a moment where I
sense the Holy Spirit needs to move on, healing or deliverance
or salvation, I'll just interject.
Our team know that they work with us, but often we leave
space at the end of a meeting for ministry at the altar.
And that's a lost art. It just doesn't happen in a lot
of places because I believe we're not just to be hearers of
the Word, but doers of the Word. And when you're there right in
that moment and you've heard a Rhema word, what I mean by that,
it is a now word that resonates in your heart, you're going to
forget about it. If you go home, you know, and
then you've got the kids and you've got lunch and you've got
but right there and then you're open to hear God's word.
So that's the time to minister. Jesus ministered there and then
he didn't wait next week. I didn't say go do it by
yourself. And so I think for us, we are so
we're so understanding of the fact that we can't we don't have
a good word. It is only by the power of the
Holy Spirit. So if you're a minister
listening, make room in your life so that you can come with
an overflow to minister and have that as a primary value that
people want it, they desire it, and don't be afraid of it.
Yeah. And then you actually experience
that at 11. Yes, I do think that's kind of
unusual. Is it a junior Holy Spirit or is
it the full Holy Spirit? Yeah, we.
Say in our church we have a catch phrase because our kids
ministry is so full of the power of the Holy Spirit.
There is no junior Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit, because we're
all spirit beings. The Holy Spirit doesn't
determine our age group. Our spirit is ageless.
Therefore, he can speak to a child the way the child needs to
hear it. He can speak to a senior citizen
the same way. And so the fact that I was 11
and I experienced and encountered the Holy Spirit on
my own. My daughter was the same at 11.
She was just sitting on the front row being immersed by the
Spirit of God. No one praying for her.
Our children's ministry, kids are prophesying, Kids are laying
hands on the sick. We saw kids lay hands on a
little deaf boy in our ministry and he was healed.
And we've seen kids go home and pray over their parents with
great authority. So we've got it.
And also in the book I write about my two children and how
they got delivered, Taylor with the spirit of fear and Holly,
who had been exposed to Slender Man, that demonic thing that was
going around school that was causing people to commit suicide
and just hateful. And she came across it at a
friend's house, had night terrors, and we brought
deliverance to her. And she was young.
And that is explained in the book.
And so this isn't just for adults because we're seeing a
lot of children right now full of anxiety and depression.
And you can see your children set free too.
Yeah, and they need the gift of discernment that the whole it
brings right now, because there's so much stuff slipping
in through Children's Games. And I'm pretty sure Sophia, my
granddaughter at 11, got filled with Holy Spirit at your.
She did. She did.
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You know, there's going to be people out there that are
listening to this and saying, well, you know, of course, Alex,
God would do that for you because you were called to the
ministry. But is the Holy Spirit just for
people in the ministry? No.
Yeah. It it just as it was for that 11
year old girl. It is for everybody.
And you know, one of the things that you've highlighted is the
counselor, but I've also heard you say boldness.
And if there was ever a need for boldness, boldness.
And you know, one of the things I want to say is there's a big
difference between being a bully and being bold in the spirit.
The Holy Spirit will never cause you to be a bully, but it will
cause you to be speak the word of God with all boldness because
that would require boldness for a young girl to say to a priest.
I, I, Jesus is my mediator. I don't need to go to mandatory
confession anymore. And so here's somebody out there
and they're, they're feeling this, you know, I want to share
a story that I recently went to like a a unity event.
And there was this beautiful Catholic priest that I could
just tell was different. And we were gathering around
Jonathan Romy, you know, who stars in the chosen and he was
praying in the Holy Spirit over him.
And I was like, whoa, whoa, he's praying in he's praying in the
Holy Spirit. And you know, when, when a lot
of people were like, what, what is that?
Well, that is praying in a spiritual language that we have
the, the, the languages of people like Italian, English,
but then we have the languages of angels.
And this he was praying in a divine spirit LED or tongues
language. And I, I asked him his
experience and he told me that he had needed a physical healing
and somebody had given him a cassette tape and he was
listening to this physical healing and he was like, it was
beautiful. And then he said, the guy
started to move and talking about the infilling of the Holy
Spirit speaking in tongues. And he said, when the guy said,
let's pray, he found himself running across room to turn off
the cassette tape. And he thought, why am I
reacting to this this way? If it is nothing, there's
nothing wrong with praying. If it is nothing, then why am I
reacting? And so he said he was like, I
step back and said, God, I, I believe I, you know, I'm clean
before you. I've confessed any sin.
I I'm standing before you humble.
If this is a gift you want from me, I want it.
And he was instantly filled with the Holy Spirit, fluent in
Aramaic, fluent in Aramaic instantly.
And so this and again, you might say, well, he's a priest, Alec
as a minister. No, this is a gift available for
everyone, every believer in Jesus Christ.
And and going back to one more thing, how beautiful that the
woman that was teaching at the foundational things told you'd
already heard the Holy Spirit, because I did have a one of my
reform friends asked me, you know, are are you filled with
the Holy Spirit? And I said, yes, but so are you.
And they said, no, are you charismatic?
Do you speak in tongues? And I said, you cannot get born
again without the involvement of the Holy Spirit.
So, Alex, why? Why is it so neglected in the
body of Christ? I think people fear, and I think
it there's been a bad representation of the
manifestation of the Holy Spirit.
I think what people have seen is the weirdness of it and the
flesh response to it. See people, I think sometimes
when there's a deficit in a person, they have to
overcompensate. And when that overcompensation
happens, it's not of the spirit and it frightens people away.
But every one of us are wired to be spirit beings.
We are made by the Spirit of God and the breath that's in our
lungs is God's spirit, which means all of us are made-up of
body, mind, soul and spirit. When you connect to the real
Spirit of God, it feels like home.
But when you have like that anti spirit, it, it feels scary.
It feels, you know, like you're opposed to it.
But I've never met anyone that has.
You know, we, we're a charismatic family.
We've grown up in a charismatic church.
But coming to Nashville, it wasn't a charismatic culture.
No, it was more of a evangelical.
Yes, very much. But when I saw people that would
walk into our church for the very first time and they would
resonate, saying, I don't understand this, but I feel
drawn to it because when it's the real Holy Spirit, it
actually awakens something inside of you.
And I think the church, the Big Sea Church overall, has done a
disservice in misrepresenting that portion, which is so odd to
me because Jesus said it's imperative that I go so that you
will have the counselor, the comforter, the teacher, the
guide. It would be like Jesus walking
with us like he did with the disciples.
But we have the Spirit of Christ dwelling in us but empowering
us. So at salvation, like you said,
we receive the Holy Spirit. But why then did he say to the
disciples, don't leave Jerusalem until you've been filled with
power, endued with power? Why?
Because he knew that they could not be witnesses unless they had
the boldness and the power that Jesus carried when the Holy
Spirit came upon him at baptism. And so it's powerful.
You would see the disciples even asking the people, have you
received since you believed? And they'd be like, wait, what
is this gift? And then they would lay hands or
they would pray with them and the infilling of the Holy
Spirit. We know this incredible moment
that defined the church that we're part of was when we see
the Holy Spirit poured out on the Gentiles, which they knew
from, you know, hey, this is the day of Pentecost.
It was poured out on the Jewish believers, but now all of the
sudden it has jumped the barriers and it has been poured
out on the Gentile believers. OK, so I, I, I want to think
about this person that has had scary experiences, has had, you
know, the weird things or they've seen, they've sensed the
Holy Spirit, but then they've seen what you're talking about
it out of order or the weirdness of it or, or whatever.
But, but they know, they know there's got to be something more
and they're sitting at home. Your book is going to walk them
through that journey to be able to actually include the divine
counselor. But how are they going to know?
And this is the question I know you get.
I get whether it's the Holy Spirit's voice.
Their voice. Yeah.
The enemy's voice. Yeah.
What?
Talk about that. Well, first of.
All I feel like we need to get into his word because his voice
sounds like his word, yes. And I think what happens when
there's confusion, it's when we don't know his word.
Now, that doesn't mean you need to know the entire Canon of
Scripture, right? But you will understand his word
a lot more if you're reading his word.
And when he speaks, he speaks through impressions.
You know, in your heart, in your thoughts, but you can often know
if it's a negative thought, if it's a condemning thought, if
it's a judgmental thought, if it makes you feel less than.
That's not the voice of God. That's the accuser of the
brethren, that's the enemy's voice.
Then we do have our own thoughts.
We're thinking about a certain thing, but we've got to look at
the fruit of that thought. Where does it lead you?
Does it lead to fruitfulness or does it lead to destruction?
And often it could be a simple impression.
And we just learnt, have to learn to act on those things,
like believe them, journal them. Man, I as I was praying, that
thought came into me that I wasn't even thinking about, but
it was an encouragement to me. I'm going to write that down.
And so you learn to develop the listening ear to hear his voice.
He's speaking all the time. He speaks through billboards
sometimes he speaks through other people.
He speaks through circumstances in life.
We've just got to learn to tune our ear to go.
Are you speaking? And I can guarantee you if you
put position yourself to say, Lord, would you speak?
I'm listening. He is going to speak to you.
But you can know if it's negative, destructive, throw it
out. If it's just neutral, it's your
thoughts. But if it's positive, if it
breathes life into you, if it's something you've never thought
of but it actually resonates, like man, that was a good
thought. Write it down and start to
learn. Maybe he doesn't do this with
you, but I even get corrective, not condemnation, but
corrective. Yeah, so.
He does that with me a lot. I get, I get the corrective on a
on a regular basis. So, all right, so now how does
somebody, because again, we've been living in a massive
distraction disturbance time period in the last five years,
there's just been constant inundation of information,
overwhelming. Now we've got somebody who says
I've, I've lost sensitivity to the Spirit of God.
I at once used to hear his voice and now I don't.
And there's a number of of blockages that I want you to
address. You talk about them in in your
messages. And you know, Alex and I again,
she's Italian, I'm Sicilian, but we've known each other.
I was trying to think probably since 2009.
I was thinking it's it's been a while.
And we met in Australia and you were very, very much a part of a
vibrant church back then and then got open some incredible
doors for you and Henry to come. You came to the US.
You really prayed into what you're supposed to do.
You had you had to have the council because you looked at
California and to be worship pastors.
Then you really felt like God was tugging and saying, no, I
want you to come to Nashville. And then when you got to
Nashville, I remember our past intersected again and you were
like, look, there is a church on every single corner, Lisa.
But again, feeling this famine of the Holy Spirit, this famine
of the presence of God, this famine of not just the presence,
but a calling to holiness. I remember you saying and and
again you were like, we've got a lot of performers who are living
double lives because people are OK with platforming them, but
not OK with calling them to purity.
And you really sensed the belonging and it began as a
Bible study that you never really intended to become a
church. And then it exploded met on
Tuesday nights. I had the privilege of coming to
it in its early days and seeing that the presence of God and and
strong messages, strong messages of holiness and Holy Spirit and
prayer. And now that because I'm trying
to think when did you first start the belonging where you
guys were meeting at Rocket Town?
And now you of course have your own building, but two. 1014 is
when we went out of the home and have been there for 12 years.
Yeah, so for 12 years and and you know, if if you don't know
about Pastor Alex and Pastor Henry Sealy, they pastor the
Belonging Cove, but they also have amazing, amazing spirit LED
anointed worship that's come out of the house because the Holy
Spirit is always going to lead people into the worship of
Jesus. So the Holy Spirit will always
point to Jesus, which would be another key thing that if it is
not, if it's pointing to you or platform or whatever you, it's
going to always Holy Spirit is always going to glorify Jesus.
Let's go back a little bit to the the therapeutic generation
that we live in right now. What would you say to somebody
because again, it's not healthy, the environment we're in?
No, well, it's not working. No, you know, I just met a girl
in New Zealand and she said, you know, I've been in therapy for
12 years. She's self harming.
She is very, very, very depressed and riddled with
anxiety. And we were able to pray with
her and she got deliverance. And that's a that's a word we
don't really listen to or understand very much.
But I'm very much about the the anointing of Jesus breaks yokes.
And he said that in Isaiah 61 was prophesied over him.
The Spirit of the Lord has anointed me to release captives
and prisoners to preach the gospel and the good news.
And he said that after he came out of the waters of baptism, he
opened the scrolls and basically said, I'm the fulfilment of this
message. His whole anointing is to break
yokes. And the yoke of depression, the
yoke of anxiety, the yoke of these strongholds that really
take hold of our lives can be broken because of the blood of
Jesus through the power of the Holy Spirit.
So the same spirit that raised Christ from the dead lives in
us. Therefore we can access that
power to break every stronghold. But we've got a generation that
has not been taught that. So they've gone to man made
solutions, they've gone to therapy, which I'm not opposed
to therapy, but if you're in therapy for 10 years and you're
not changing, it's not working. If you're on medication for
decades and nothing's changing, it's not working.
So we have to look at the overall majority and say, OK,
these things are helpful tools, but are they the cure?
No, I believe only Jesus Christ is the cure through the person
and the power of the Holy Spirit.
So we've got to learn to tap into knowing him and
understanding it is for freedom that Christ came to set us free,
Galatians 51 says. So why are we going back to yoke
of bondages to? No longer to be slaved and
entangled again with the yoke of slavery.
Exactly, and that's what I believe mental health is right
now. It's a yoke of slavery, slave.
And it's I mean, it's what you're saying it's not working.
It's not. And I mean, even you talk to
psychoanalysts, psychologists like Jordan Peterson, they say
this therapy is not working. You know, I, I love that you
brought up like again, we need a generation that needs to renew
their mind rather than study their mind.
And, and, and I think that's what's happening.
They're studying, Yep, they're studying their past.
They're studying their pain. They're studying.
Oh, wow. OK, yeah, that was that moment.
And now I'm triggered because of this moment.
And you know, and again, I'm not trying to mock.
I'm not trying to mock. But as somebody and you and I
both have had, we haven't had perfect pass.
Yeah, I know I came from emotionally and physically
abusive parenting. And I could have said, well, I
am forever entangled in that. But when you renew your mind,
you don't look at yourself. And I and Alex, I remember there
was a moment where I, I think I had just had my second child and
you know, I, you know, probably wasn't postpartum depression,
but we weren't, we weren't given that as an option, you know,
like we weren't, we weren't told, oh, you could have
depression. So I probably got, you know, was
that and I was very introspective.
And I remember thinking my, I was laying in my bed and I
thought my heart is a brood of Vipers.
I just remember like I was like, there's just so much negativity
in my heart and judgement and, and anger and you know, and I
just remember I was like, God, it's just a brood of Vipers.
And I don't know, I was overwhelmed by my own thoughts.
I was overwhelmed by my patterns that I had inherited and
reinforced in my own life. And all the sudden I remember I
called a spiritual father and I said, I am a brood of Vipers.
I mean, it was like, wait a minute, you are searching your
mind by the light of your understanding, not the light of
God's word. And he said it is the word of
God that renews our mind. He said, you're going to the
darkness of your own mind. And I do feel like that is the
mistake, you know, And and then again, this is going to make
some of you mad, but I'm just going to say it.
Not everybody is a life coach. That's right.
Not everybody is a life coach. Everybody has the right to
actually speak into your life. And you need to be very, very
careful. I mean, God is offering us
divine counsel and a living word.
And he's like, again, your divine counselor, that voice of
the Holy Spirit. You have the, the policing and
the parameters of God's word, like is this God?
But you have to read the word and then the word will actually
speak to you because it's alive. And and then you have this
beautiful framework. And we're we're not saying we're
against medicine, but what we're saying is it's covering up
something. That's right.
It's not a good long term solution.
That's right. Yeah.
Yeah, I think it's a reset for some people, but I think we're
prescribing too much too soon. And I think if we were to able
able to have people who were spirit filled counselors who
people who led you back to Jesus.
And in fact, in that book, I've got several testimonies where I
call it the proof is in the pudding because everything I'm
talking about of what to do when you're in a crisis of of your
emotions and your trauma, how does Jesus get in the center of
it? It's not denying it.
It's not pushing it away. It's actually allowing him to
come with you on the journey to healing.
And we have to get used to leaning into pain because the
one who suffered the most pain understands and he takes us
through to the other side of healing.
But we want to numb the pain, we want a quick fix, we want a
short term solution. And that's not going to fly.
And I think that's the fear for me is I'm seeing so many people
bound and locked up to the point where because of those drugs,
they're not even sensing the presence of God because.
Dumbs it. Dowels it down, you know.
And numbing is OK, like you get numbed for surgery.
Yes, but there comes a point. You've got to come out.
You've got to come out because actually, if you, if you don't
come out, like I remember when I broke my nose surfing, I came
out of the surgery and the and the doctor had, I guess dusted
my nose with cocaine, so I had no pain.
I was like, so happy. I told John, I'm so glad I
didn't try that before I became a Christian.
I was like, that was amazing. They're like, what's your level
of pain? I said 00.
I felt great. And then the next day I called
the doctor and I was like, I was wrong.
I need pain pills. And he said, no, now I actually
need you to feel it. Yeah, so that you heal.
And he said because if I numb you, you will do things that
will actually injure you further.
And he said I need you to to feel this pain.
And I think it's exactly what you're saying is there.
There comes a time where pain is an indicator.
It is not something to always be avoided.
So all right, so now I kind of, I kind of hijacked your ability
to talk about what are the things that dull.
We, we have talked about this well, but what are some of the
other things that you're seeing in the church that have dulled
the to be honest with you, I mean, it's you and I both know
the Holy Spirit is always wanting to speak.
He is. Always willing to speak.
You know, John always refers to it as it's like a radio station
is always broadcasting. Oh, yeah.
Whether you turn on the radio or not, It's, it's it's not, it
doesn't start broadcasting the moment you turn on the radio.
It's always broadcasting. So it's, it's not the Holy
Spirit is unwilling to speak. It's just that we're unwilling
to engage. So So what are some things that
Causeway A disengagement and then how can people reengage?
Yeah, I think honestly, people, there are people that want to
blame and therefore divert responsibility.
And therefore because, you know, taking responsibility means
you've got to sit in the posture to listen and be corrected.
Like you said before, there is that.
I don't think people are wanting to sit long enough to be
corrected. I think they just want to be
stroked and told they're there. It's all very bad rather than I
know this happened to you, but let me take you through it.
I think we fear. I think we're in environments
where I love that you use the word famine, that there is a
barrenness of the presence of God.
So we're hearing good talks. Of the best.
But there's no power or authority behind it.
And then we're not given the space to be ministered to.
And this is in the church. It's a good talk.
And then on your way, whereas I'm a big believer of
positioning yourself, you know, the Holy Spirit moves where he's
wanted, moves where he's invited.
And so to have that acknowledgement even when you
read the Word, my prayer, every time I open the Scripture is
Holy Spirit. Would you illuminate what I need
you to speak to me about today? So I'm in a position to say I'm
a student. Will you speak when I'm at
church? I'm not going in what have they
got for me today? I'm not going in familiar.
I'm going in hungry saying I mean, I've been in church
services since I was born. I'm 53 years of age.
I you know, I've heard a lot, but I never treat the word of
God being preached by anybody with familiarity.
So I again, I'm positioning myself.
I could learn something that will change me today, even if
it's one line, one scripture, one thought.
I think we have to humble ourselves.
I think that's a really big one too.
Not to be the experts, to think, well, I know better.
You know, every time I've spoken on this topic, I've had
pushback. How dare you say that my anxiety
and my depression can be healed because I've tried.
I've tried. And I think that's the problem.
They're trying rather than surrendering.
And I think there's many, many areas where we have to surrender
our will. We have to position ourselves to
listen. We have to stand to be
corrected. It's OK, OK to be corrected
because God disciplines those He loves and cares for and we have
to not fear the fact that He's going to scold us because He's
not a mean God. Well, and it's shocking to me
that people, and again, I understand disappointment, I
understand frustration. I understand trying and, you
know, asking God to heal and not getting healed and then getting
mad when people say there's still freedom available.
But wouldn't it be better to believe that there is freedom?
I I know for me Alex, when I was again a young mother and I was I
just had I believe I just had Nope, I had not heard Ally well
anyway, I was young mother and I was crying out to God set me
free, set me free, set me free and he answered back, What do
you think I've left undone? I gave the life of my son
completely that you might be completely free.
But Lisa, you pick and you choose, you know, and again,
that whole Galatians, it is for freedom, not for ministry.
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free and God sets us
free so that we can be His. He wants us to be totally his.
It's not because he wants to use us in some way, but it is for
freedom that Christ has set us free.
Now there is there is the area and I do think that this has
come in. I know I've been talking about
this quite a bit, and people do get upset of compromises that we
have unwittedly, perhaps even in our home, invited things that
grieve the Holy Spirit. Can you speak about that?
Yeah, We, you think about it, like to have the Holy Spirit in
you means we have the fruit of the Spirit, Lovejoy, peace,
patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, self-control, all
of these things. If we're not exercising that,
that then doesn't take place. So then when you look at
people's homes, what are you letting into your home?
What music are you listening to? Because you're opening a door
for the enemy to speak depressive songs over you.
Or sexualized. Or sexualized songs, movies,
horror, pervertedness, all of these things open doors that
actually we're we are spirit beings.
Therefore we're open to receive. And we were just talking about
this the other day. Crystals that people, even
Christians using crystals going to horoscopes, going to these
things that we want in the immediate I want to get you're
opening the door for the enemy to wreak havoc in your life
because it is not centered in Christ and anything that is not
centered in Christ is Antichrist.
So you're opening yourself up to be messed with by oppressive
spirits, spirit of fear that comes in.
It takes a stronghold. So we're doing a lot of things
at home, even unwillingly. What are you letting your
children want? Watch.
What are you? How are you talking to one
another? Are you just living in your
flesh where you react instead of respond?
Are you learning how to love one another, prefer one another?
All of these things matter. What are you speaking over your
life? What are you declaring?
I am my condition. We're making things, our
identity. I have, I have.
And so we're opening ourselves to so much that them the enemy.
We have to realise we live in a spiritual world.
We're making agreements with things that are ungodly, that
then become belief systems that then we act out and then become
strongholds. And then we wonder why we're
bound. Right.
No, 100%. And I don't think people
understand. And I've, you know, they'll
think it's legalism, but it's not legalism because there's a
big difference. We're not talking about
salvation. We're not talking about you
losing your salvation, but we are talking about you losing
your authority in the spirit. We are talking about you losing
an awareness of the Holy Spirit's prompting to where you
don't hear his voice. We are talking about
unforgiveness. Well, like I've had, we've seen
so many people that ask for the infilling of the Holy Spirit.
Now they've already of course experienced the Holy Spirit
through salvation, but ask for the infilling of the Holy Spirit
speaking in tongues who cannot get filled with unforgiveness in
their heart. And so unforgiveness, offense,
these kind of things, they, they come in as barriers.
And why would you want an excuse to live unholy?
That's why would you want that? And, and you know, when we talk
about the Holy Spirit, this is, this is a manifestation of a
holy God. And you know, it's interesting
to me and I'd love you to weigh in on this.
Like when you describe the word holy what?
How do you set that up? Yeah, well, holy means to be set
apart, different and and and useful for something specific
and intentional, full of purpose to be holy.
I think we can look at that word and go, oh, that means we're
self-righteous and we're. No, no, no, no, no.
It means you don't want to break the heart of God because he is
holy and anything that isn't holy he doesn't want part of.
So I don't want to be apart from my father.
So I want to live. Now does that mean I live a
perfect life? No, but I'm doing everything
that I can with the power of the Holy Spirit.
I think I remember John articulating it is, you know, to
be grace empowers us to live righteously.
And so it's the grace of God through the power of the Holy
Spirit that enables us to be holy.
It's not. I have to muster up holiness.
I have to be holy. Legalism.
Yeah, that's legalism. No.
And then? Again, that's that's the
Pharisee, that's the Pharisitical spirit.
And totally. And then they become proud and
arrogant and judgmental. But holy is a humility.
Holy is I can't do this without you, Lord, but I don't want to
break your heart. And so I think the endeavor of
knowing the person of the Holy Spirit.
Actually, like you said before, he points us to Jesus.
So you fall more in love with Jesus and the more you fall in
love with Jesus, the more you don't want to break his heart
and the more you find yourself going.
I don't want a part of that because it's not beneficial.
It's not it's actually not helping me.
Like I used to get so angry at things because when I was young,
I was, I always felt unheard and unseen.
And so if I ever felt dismissed or I would get so angry, and
then the Holy Spirit, this is his job.
He would be like, Alex, do you see there's a deficit here?
Why are you needing to prove your worth over here when I've
already made you worthy? So then you're like.
Oh, and that's what a Holy Spirit conversation sounds.
Like that's exactly right. It goes so gentle.
It goes to the core, yes. It doesn't go to the surface,
yes. And this is my concern is that
therapy goes to patterns but not core.
Yes, it never goes to the root. Yes.
We deal with symptoms, yes. It's not when I had an eating
disorder. Which we both did.
I don't know how we both managed to with that.
I know. But 20 years of that bondage.
But the root of it was control. Yes, the root of it was
rejection and the root of it was unforgiveness because of my
mother's outbursts. Because of her, you never knew
what day it was going to be. I the only thing I could control
was my eating. But then what I got from that
was affirmation because, oh, look how lovely you look because
you're so skinny. So then it was feeding the
deficit of affirmation that I was so starved with.
So now that became my idol. It became my friend. 20 years.
And I'll be honest, I would always feel the prompting and
the Holy Spirit, hey, we need to deal with that.
And I'd be like, we're good, I'm okay, I've got it under control.
The irony of that. But then it wasn't until the
Holy Spirit. I'll never forget that
impression to say, Alex, the root of it is control.
You so fear being out of control that you don't trust me.
Therefore, I'm your Savior, but I'm not your Lord because this
is yours and you won't give it to me so you can be saved.
And I was in ministry, by the way.
I'm raising my hands, I'm speaking in tongues, I'm serving
in ministry, but there's an area of my heart that I'm not letting
Jesus go near. That's what he's talking about.
Now, I could have gone to therapy after therapy after
therapy, but the counselor said, hey, sweetie, you've got an
issue with your mother and you need to forgive her and you need
to repent of the idol of yourself.
Let that go. Watch me heal.
You delivered. It's crazy how parallel our
palsa are in that realm. You know, you mentioned and we
just kind of, we just kind of went over it really quickly
about crystals and stones and things like that.
See, I want to talk to anybody out there that's like, no, no, I
feel, I feel the presence of God with crystals or with stones or
my astrology. It makes sense to me.
Or maybe you're manifesting things for your business or
whatever. I'm, I want to tell you, you're
drawn to that because you are a spiritual being, but what you
are practicing is not of divine origin.
It is divination and divination means the imitation of the
divine and when you actually surrender to the Holy Spirit.
And that's that's really what you're going to have to do.
You can't just throw a Christian name on manifestation.
That's right. You cannot just throw a
Christian name on yoga. You can't just throw a Christian
name on crystals. You can't just say, well, it's
Christian because I'm I'm a Christian.
You have to actually surrender. That's right.
And say God, I want only that which your Holy Spirit imparts
and and it's always a counterfeit.
Yes, I mean the manifestation. I'm going to claim these things
and I am whatever see it is Jesus said for the purpose.
Well, the word of God said the for this purpose was the son of
God manifest was to destroy the works of the evil 1.
So he's not going to bless divination.
That's right. He's not going to bless that.
And so if you're out there and you're like, but I I felt Reiki
was this moment. No, you guys, we need to be set
apart. And So what I'm going to
challenge you and I'm going to ask, I'm going to have Alex
pray, but what I'm going to challenge you to do, surrender
it all, surrender it all and say, God, you know what?
I if I have these idols in my life, maybe like Alex and I, you
are taking control of eating disorder and you're like, God,
I'll give you all these areas, but I'm not giving you that area
because I don't know if I can trust you.
You might be fat or you might. That was.
That was my eye. That was my I was like, you
can't be trusted with this. You don't just say it's my
flesh. So I don't want to.
I don't want to surrender. And God was like, it is going to
kill you. And your children.
Is going to kill you. You do not deal with this.
So I don't know what idols you've built up.
I don't know what false deities or flawed divinations that
you've leaned into because of a hunger.
It's a reason why everybody likes magic.
It's because we were made for the supernatural.
But you're not supposed to be Harry Potter.
You don't need a wand or an owl. You have the divine counselor
and Alex, I'm so thankful that you've written this book.
I know so that years and years ago John and I felt like the
Holy Spirit had been misrepresented in the church and
felt like we had to reintroduce just the Holy Spirit.
But you have gone to the next level of talking about the Holy
Spirit as our divine counselor. And I can't even imagine what is
more necessary right now of a generation lost, confused,
distracted, divided politically, you know, aggravated.
And all of this time we need divine counsel.
And so could you just pray for anybody that's listening that
and I just want you to feel the freedom to be LED.
However, and if you're there, I'm saying, I I need this book.
Listen, we're going to put it in our show notes.
You can get a hold of this book. The divine counselor.
We need you to be connected with the Holy Spirit.
This is not just a ministry tool.
This is your companion for life. It is.
Well, let's pray. Father, we just thank you that
you sent your Son Jesus first and foremost to die, who was
buried and who rose again. And because of that, the Spirit
of the living God is now accessible to us through the
Holy Spirit. And I thank you that you sent us
a helper, a guide, a teacher, a comforter, a counselor, our
advocate, the one who stands in the gap for us and intercedes
and prays with us and leads us. God, I pray for every person
right now who's listening to my voice that you are searching for
more. Maybe you're riddled right now
with depression, anxiety, fear, addiction in some way.
I pray right now that the power of the Holy Spirit would reveal
Jesus to you. I pray that as you ask and when
you seek and you not that He will answer you.
I pray that even today that He will show you a sign that He
will bring a person alongside of you to show you, but more
importantly when you open the scriptures that He will reveal
Himself to you. I pray right now to break every
stronghold that you may be living under that you've just
not been able to break free. I pray in the name of Jesus that
the blood of Jesus would break every chain.
And I thank you, God, that you are accessible to everyone who
is asking, everyone who is searching.
And so God, make yourself available.
Make yourself known today to every single one of these
listeners. And I pray that you would bring
healing where there needs healing.
You would bring breakthrough and deliverance to those areas that
are bound, broken, and shut down.
And that you would reveal the Christ, the Christ within us,
the hope of glory that would bring transformation, not just
behavior modification, but transformation by the renewing
of our mind. In your name we pray.
Amen. Amen.
And listen, if that is spoke to you, we want to hear from you
and we love that this is an opportunity to come into your
home and for you to pray and and there's nothing, there's nothing
special about us. It's not it's not easy thing
different. God just loves you.
And I believe if you've listened to this podcast today, it's
because God has something just incredibly profound for you.
Alex, thank you so much for joining me.
I just believe lives are going to be touched and ministered
too. Amen.
Thank men.