1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,720 So the first time my husband hit me, I picked up the lamp and 2 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:05,120 went after him. You know, Lisa, I've never seen 3 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:08,960 a family fight the way yours did, and I still married into 4 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:10,720 it. I always thought, OK, if you 5 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:13,480 fight within your family or within your marriage, that just 6 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:16,440 means you're headed for divorce. So many of us, we came from 7 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:20,120 families that did not navigate conflict well. 8 00:00:20,240 --> 00:00:25,160 I remember that every time I had a fight with John, I didn't just 9 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:27,960 fight about that incident. I thought about that incident 10 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:31,200 and every incident that reminded me of that incident going back 11 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:34,720 to our dating days, there was some very serious breaches of 12 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:36,800 trust in our marriage. It was something that I had 13 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:39,240 always said if my husband ever does this, I will divorce him. 14 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:47,280 And it was welcome to our podcast today. 15 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:49,040 And we have been listening to you. 16 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:54,360 So many of you have said, can you please talk about navigating 17 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:58,920 conflict as a family? So many of us, we came from 18 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:02,000 families that did not navigate conflict. 19 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:03,800 Well. We're specifically going to talk 20 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:07,280 about marriage and some of the things that we have experienced 21 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:09,400 as a family. And I believe it's going to have 22 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:11,680 some keys for you can. I just say this is so fun as 23 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:14,360 your daughter-in-law getting to have like these conversations 24 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:17,760 and just ask questions because I think even the in law conflict 25 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:21,400 is like, how do you do that? How do you just navigate hard 26 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:23,600 things as family? And that was like one of my 27 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:26,760 first questions to you guys because I think it's just the 28 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:30,320 Southern way where you're like bred to be passive aggressive. 29 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:31,800 I was joking with my mom and sister. 30 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:34,240 I'm like, guys, we do not tackle things. 31 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:35,440 We tiptoe. And they're like, you're right, 32 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:38,160 we do, we need to do a better job of this. 33 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:41,120 But I always thought, OK, if you fight within your family or 34 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:44,120 within your marriage, that just means you're headed for divorce. 35 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:49,280 I was stunned when I first saw you guys just like lovingly 36 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,360 going at each other. Like no, you said this and you 37 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:54,120 did that. And I was like during a game. 38 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:58,360 It could have been during a game or a post meal cleanup. 39 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:03,720 It could have been code names. I, just like John, cheats at 40 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:07,360 code names on a regular basis. So we can get into that, we can 41 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:09,960 talk about that. But yeah, it was just shocking 42 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:13,600 to me that you guys were really authentic and going there. 43 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:16,920 One, I just sensed that you guys trusted each other, to be 44 00:02:16,920 --> 00:02:20,840 honest, but you also didn't let it end with conflict. 45 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:24,560 So I would love to know. Your birthday's tomorrow. 46 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:28,040 There's been a couple decades. I won't share your age, but you 47 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:29,480 I. Don't care, I'm 65. 48 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:32,200 You've had six decades of learning maybe how to do it 49 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:36,800 wrong and how to do it well. Why is navigating conflict worth 50 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:39,280 it as a family? Why should you even do it? 51 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:42,360 Well, first of all, I came from, I'm not Southern. 52 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:46,640 I came from you attack the person, you attack their 53 00:02:46,640 --> 00:02:48,880 character, you don't attack the problem. 54 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:55,200 Yeah, I mean, but it was more my dad, my mom was the one who was 55 00:02:55,200 --> 00:03:02,040 super aggressive at attacking my father, me, whatever she was 56 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:04,960 upset with. And my dad would just leave and 57 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:08,000 go get drunk. So he would just, he would just 58 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:12,080 tap out and then I would be left with whatever was going on. 59 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:15,840 And a lot of that ended up being like, OK, displaced. 60 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:17,320 Like you're just like your father. 61 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:21,080 You I mean just like all this stuff like and that. 62 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:23,560 You're the scapegoat. I was definitely the scapegoat. 63 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:25,320 Yeah, I was definitely the family scapegoat. 64 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:30,480 My brother was so much younger. He, he didn't have conflict with 65 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:35,360 my mom until he was much older. But yeah, I think I was willful 66 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:39,440 from day one and pushed all of my mom's buttons. 67 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:43,960 But I, I remember, I have a very distinct memory of sitting in a 68 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:49,440 high chair and watching my parents have a knock down, drag 69 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:56,760 out fight and just thinking, wow, that was scary and crazy. 70 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:02,400 And, and so I did not, I did not know how to fight fair. 71 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:07,520 I did not know how to fight where you weren't wounding 72 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,960 people. When John and I got married, his 73 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:13,800 parents had never fought. Never. 74 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:15,480 I mean, he said, I've never seen my parents fight. 75 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:17,560 And I said, well, I've never seen my parents kiss. 76 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:21,360 I've never seen my parents hug. So I'd never, not seen my 77 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:25,720 parents fight. But yet John's dad had ulcers. 78 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:31,040 So he was holding stuff in and his mom, she was like, I'm not a 79 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:32,440 hugger. I'm not a hugger. 80 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:34,800 I think she was like, I'm at maximum capacity. 81 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:38,040 Don't, don't do anything. And so kind of like, we're like, 82 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:41,200 yeah, we don't want, I don't want John having ulcers. 83 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:45,400 So, you know, our family was, you know, very free with their 84 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:48,320 thoughts. But at the end of the day, there 85 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:52,920 was never resolution. There was never healing. 86 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:56,760 You always were paying for something and you never knew 87 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:59,280 when it was done. Like, it was like, you're always 88 00:04:59,280 --> 00:05:00,760 this way. You'll never change. 89 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:02,960 And so it was it was very destructive. 90 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:08,040 So John was the beginning of me understanding there's a 91 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:12,560 difference between attacking the problem and attacking the 92 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:15,120 person. I did not know the difference 93 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:18,720 between that and I don't know, you know, what your experience 94 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:23,760 was, but getting married a lot of times, and this is something 95 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:25,880 we've been able to share with so many couples, and it's just a 96 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:30,640 visual illustration, is most couples see like themselves as 97 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:33,280 what the husband's on this side, the wife's on this side. 98 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:36,360 Here's the problem. And the wife, you know, pushes 99 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:38,280 it towards the husband and said you caused this. 100 00:05:38,280 --> 00:05:40,080 And the husband's like, no, you caused this. 101 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:43,280 And then they're like, no, you. And they push the problem back 102 00:05:43,280 --> 00:05:46,560 and forth on a table. When really when you're married, 103 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:48,960 the two of you are on one side of the table. 104 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:51,480 And the problem is not on the table. 105 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:53,400 It's on the opposite side of the table. 106 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:56,840 And what you have to do is you have to figure out how you unite 107 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:00,360 and deal with an issue. And, and it's a, it's a, it's a 108 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,480 visual that we need to see because we're on the same team. 109 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:07,320 So John would say, Lisa, don't attack me, don't attack my 110 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:10,320 character because when I would attack his character, then he 111 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:13,320 would defend his character and we never were addressing the 112 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:15,480 problem. And then he would attack my 113 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:17,320 character. Then I would go even further 114 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:20,160 because I was had years of experience of knowing how to 115 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:23,520 attack character, very little experience to know how to attack 116 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:25,680 a problem. OK, you wrote the fight for 117 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:27,520 female. I want to get into Fight Club. 118 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:31,080 Maybe some like Fight Club rules for people that want to be 119 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:34,800 married, that are are married that help you navigate conflict. 120 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:36,800 Well, yeah, I'm already hearing number one. 121 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:39,440 Don't say words like always or never. 122 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:41,880 I think that just berates the problem to a point of what 123 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:43,320 you're saying. It goes into a character. 124 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:45,280 Issue. Yeah, then a problem. 125 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:46,000 Issue. Yeah. 126 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:48,400 What would be some other like don't attack? 127 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:52,600 Person attack the problem. OK, the other thing I think that 128 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:56,360 is, is key is remember, and again, we're talking about 129 00:06:56,360 --> 00:07:02,320 marriage and family, that you are all on the same team at the 130 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:04,080 end of the day. I mean, unless you're in like a 131 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:08,480 a crazy situation where the family is unhealthy or unsafe, 132 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:11,960 And I mean every family has dysfunction, you know, every 133 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:14,800 family has some dysfunction. You just kind of want to the 134 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:17,480 pick the funner dysfunctions. That's less the least 135 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:20,600 destructive dysfunctions, but our family. 136 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:26,680 One of the things with our family is if we're upset, we're 137 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:33,360 not going to say something it and then maybe fight even more 138 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:35,000 about it in private. We're just going to be direct 139 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:36,840 with it in the moment. We're going to be like, OK, this 140 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:39,360 is. It's shockingly refreshing. 141 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:42,880 This is this and then and it it's it's done. 142 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:46,520 And I think part of that also was I had four boys and then I 143 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:49,400 had a husband and and John would say, why don't hint? 144 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:56,200 So the clarity is, if you want to be heard, say it the way 145 00:07:56,200 --> 00:08:00,440 you'd want to hear it. So when you're in a fight, do 146 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:03,480 you like being attacked? Do you like somebody shaming 147 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:04,840 you? Do you like somebody calling you 148 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:06,520 names? Do you like somebody bring up 149 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:10,280 your past or do you want solution? 150 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:14,600 And I do think if we're fighting for something in a family or in 151 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:18,240 a marriage, we actually shouldn't come to the table 152 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:21,600 until we're ready for solution. And I, and I know this is a 153 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:24,720 problem for, for me and John, we were first married because John 154 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:26,920 was not liking any kind of conflict. 155 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:30,040 And I was concerned about my idle word account. 156 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:33,200 I was like, I don't want to talk right now because my idle word 157 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:37,240 account is so high. Like I, I want to be 158 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:44,280 constructive and not reactive. And so I think sometimes we, we 159 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:47,240 have to say to the person, don't chase me around the house. 160 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:52,160 I want to get resolution but I need to calm myself down 161 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:57,040 emotionally so that I can sit down and be logical and attack 162 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:01,040 the problem instead of being overwhelmed by my but my 163 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:04,040 feelings and. So it's still circle back. 164 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:08,600 Circle back in a way where I can say, and I can say I could say 165 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:12,120 to my husband, you know what, John, I'm really upset about 166 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:17,960 this, but I want to work towards the solution so I can 167 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:19,760 acknowledge that I'm upset about this. 168 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:23,040 You can acknowledge with Arden that you're upset about 169 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:26,560 something, but at the end of the day, do you want to just be 170 00:09:26,560 --> 00:09:29,920 upset or do you want there to be resolution? 171 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:33,080 And I think too many people, they stay in the upset, they 172 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:36,040 stay in the punishment zone. Like, OK, for example, for me, 173 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:39,920 when I first, when I first got married to John, there were, 174 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:43,200 there was some very serious breaches of trust in our 175 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:47,080 marriage. And it it wasn't adultery, but 176 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:49,560 it was, it was something that I had always said, if my husband 177 00:09:49,560 --> 00:09:51,040 ever does this, I will divorce him. 178 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:56,600 And it was, he was physically rough with me and he had hit me 179 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:59,120 a couple times. And you know, here's the thing, 180 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:01,280 I'm not a shrinking Violet. So the first time my husband hit 181 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:03,520 me, I picked up the lamp and went after him. 182 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:06,000 So he was like, wow. Sorry, laugh. 183 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:08,720 It is pretty funny and I'm like, wow. 184 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:14,120 But I had made myself a promise growing up, I will not ever stay 185 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:16,120 in a physically abusive household. 186 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:20,280 And I think because John didn't know how to have a constructive 187 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:24,000 conversation and I didn't know to have a constructive 188 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:28,120 conversation, he went into the physical frustration realm. 189 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:30,760 And, and I and I know that sounds terrible. 190 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:34,920 And I even have to, I even have to drag up these memories that 191 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:37,280 used to be so on the forefront of my life. 192 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:40,120 So we've been married 43 years this year. 193 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:44,400 This was the first three years and, and, and I'm not saying it 194 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:46,400 was right away, I think it was year 2. 195 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:52,840 And I had made myself a problem. And I promise that if my husband 196 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:56,840 ever, if this is ever a problem, it, it, it's, it's a deal 197 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:59,040 breaker. And so I had read a book by 198 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:01,680 Doctor Dobson called Love Must Be Tough. 199 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:05,440 And he talked about when you get in an unhealthy pattern, you end 200 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:08,600 up enabling something. And so I decided to bring it to 201 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:11,280 a crisis. And so John came home from work 202 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:14,920 and I locked him out and I like, called, I called out from the 203 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:17,080 upstairs window and I said, I don't know where you're staying 204 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:20,320 this weekend, but it's not here and you're going to need to deal 205 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:24,400 with this. And, and, and I was serious and 206 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:28,440 he knew I was serious. And, and he went, he went to 207 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:31,840 somebody's house, that beautiful family friends that he just 208 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:32,960 said, I, I just need to get away. 209 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:35,600 I just need to pray You didn't tell him what was going on. 210 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:38,760 And then as soon as I knew that John wasn't going to be there 211 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:41,200 for Friday and Saturday, I told me he could come back for church 212 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:44,680 because we had to make a Christian appearance and we 213 00:11:44,680 --> 00:11:45,960 weren't in the ministry at the time. 214 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:50,520 I, I said, God, all right, I've got some options for you. 215 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:53,880 You need to, you need to maybe give my husband a bad dream, 216 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:56,320 maybe a lightning strike. I don't want you to kill him 217 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:57,480 because I don't have insurance on him. 218 00:11:57,680 --> 00:12:00,480 I mean, I was like, I had and I had no children at the time. 219 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:02,920 I was like, this needs to change. 220 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:09,160 This needs to change. And, and I remember being so 221 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:16,840 frustrated because John was completely wrong, but I wasn't 222 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:20,920 making it easy for him to move to a place of health and right. 223 00:12:21,680 --> 00:12:27,760 And I remember that every time I had a fight with John, I didn't 224 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,800 just fight about that incident. I thought about that incident 225 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:34,040 and every incident that reminded me of that incident going back 226 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:35,400 to our dating days. I mean, I like. 227 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:37,920 It's almost new female way. Yeah, I knew what I was wearing. 228 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:39,200 I knew what movie in the line for. 229 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:41,920 I mean, it was like ridiculous. And so I had like Supernatural 230 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:47,240 recall where I had all of this stuff against John. 231 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:50,200 And every time we had a disagreement, I put it all on 232 00:12:50,200 --> 00:13:00,240 the table and and I remember God saying to me, I'm going to talk 233 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:03,280 about you. And he was very clear like, 234 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:06,240 Nope, this is not healthy. No, this is not to be tolerated. 235 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:09,480 No, you are not to be hurt. No, you do not deserve to be 236 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:11,200 hit. No, none of this is correct. 237 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:15,520 Like he was like, he wasn't like you smarted off and you should 238 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:18,160 have been hit. None of that, none of that, none 239 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:20,760 of that was part of the conversation. 240 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:26,680 But he did show me how I had dug a hole and put John in it that 241 00:13:26,680 --> 00:13:28,040 John felt like he couldn't get out of. 242 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:34,480 And and and John had said he was sorry a bunch of times and but 243 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,720 then something would happen or, or I would sometimes Christian, 244 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:39,520 I would just get scared something was going to happen 245 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:43,360 and then I would escalate it, which is ridiculous, but I did. 246 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:47,680 And again, I'm trying to like pull from my memory banks, but I 247 00:13:47,680 --> 00:13:51,920 remember God said, when John comes home, I want you to talk 248 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:54,440 to him and forgive him the way I forgive you. 249 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:58,840 And you know, every time I've ever come to God and said, you 250 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:01,800 know, I'm so sorry I come to you in the name of Jesus. 251 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:06,880 Father, forgive me for AB and C. He's never said to me, you know 252 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:08,640 what, Lisa, I'll forgive you when you change. 253 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:15,480 He always says, I believe you want to change and I forgive 254 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:17,680 you. I never sense guilt and 255 00:14:17,680 --> 00:14:22,280 condemnation. I sense I sent a belief of 256 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:25,240 better things. And so I was like, OK, but 257 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:28,000 there's, there's all these things I haven't been able to 258 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:30,520 bring up in a fight before that. And he was like, you're going to 259 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:32,240 have to let go of all of those things. 260 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:37,600 And when John comes home and you need to tell him that you 261 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:39,360 believe he wants to change and you forgive him. 262 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:41,880 And I'm like, can I, can I tell him everything I'm forgiving him 263 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,200 of? Could I like do the list like, I 264 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:46,920 forgive you this and this. And then there was that one time 265 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:48,480 that you didn't know about and you did this. 266 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:51,520 And then and he was like, no, no. 267 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:55,600 And I remember John came home and it was so hard for me, 268 00:14:55,600 --> 00:15:00,320 Christian, because I had a mother that said to me, I'll 269 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:05,240 forgive you when you change. And I never felt empowered to 270 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:06,640 change. I felt like I had to earn it, 271 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:09,960 earn it, earn it, earn it. And so I remember I looked at my 272 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:12,320 husband. I said, I believe you want to 273 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:17,160 change and I forgive you. And it was so scary, but it was 274 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:19,840 also the end of something that was a very unhealthy pattern. 275 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:24,000 And I can't, like I said, I can't even, I can barely 276 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:28,040 remember it happening. And I, and I'm not again, I'm 277 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:31,560 not, I'm not advocating any women staying abusive situations 278 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:34,000 or or at risk. I never was at risk. 279 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:40,120 I, I, it was, it was like WWF wrestling with two stupid 280 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:46,040 people. But I I believe that forgiveness 281 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:51,360 has to be the entryway to healthy family conflict. 282 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:54,800 We cannot bring our fears from our parents. 283 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:59,520 We cannot bring anything anybody else has ever done to us to the 284 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:04,960 table. We have to give everybody a 285 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:06,560 chance to believe the best of them. 286 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:10,200 Which is not easy and why we're talking about this because I 287 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:14,160 think some of us all want part of that, but it's like, how do 288 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:17,240 we take that usually the first heart step? 289 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:20,080 And when you're saying the story just comes to mind of I believe 290 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:24,720 it's in Matthew, but blessed are the peace makers, not the 291 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:26,160 peacekeepers. I always think that's so 292 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:28,160 interesting because it's just keeping the peace. 293 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:30,680 That's easy. But a peacemaker is what I'm 294 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:32,480 hearing you say of OK, I'm going to forgive. 295 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:34,800 I'm going to humble myself. I'm going to not focus on the 296 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:37,720 problem which was there and you acknowledge, but what's the 297 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:39,320 answer and what's my part in that? 298 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:42,720 I think that's so powerful and I see you guys model that today, 299 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:47,800 thankfully through much better conflict, but you still model 300 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:50,080 that heart posture. So it obviously taught you 301 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:54,640 something and I'm thinking of maybe the women watching that 302 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:58,640 have come from some type of similar background to you or 303 00:16:58,640 --> 00:16:59,920 something different. They're like, well, I'm scared 304 00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:02,600 to even bring it up. Isn't it easier just to keep it 305 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:05,119 all buried, maybe take it on inside so I don't have to deal 306 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:07,560 with that. But iron sharpens iron. 307 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:09,720 Some of that friction is is needed. 308 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:12,640 And you share this with John's story, but of his parents. 309 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:17,400 But how do you avoid that blow up space? 310 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:21,319 Like should you aim to have a conflict a month or like what's 311 00:17:21,319 --> 00:17:24,800 a gauge of what's a gauge of Like we're healthily walking 312 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:27,960 cycle OK once a year. No, no, I, I. 313 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:29,720 Maybe that is time where we have conflict. 314 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:33,280 Let things build up, Yeah. And hopefully that's not 315 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:35,560 monthly. I mean hopefully, hopefully 316 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:36,480 that. All right. 317 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:38,840 I guess what's a? How would someone know if 318 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:43,000 they're avoiding or they are having like this sharpening type 319 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:44,480 of conflict? We're like, OK, we're growing 320 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:45,400 from this. We are. 321 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:51,560 Doing it position things is so key like I I have found if my 322 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:56,200 husband comes to me and says, Lisa, I know you and I know your 323 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:59,560 heart and I know you wouldn't want to come across this way, 324 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:03,120 but this is how I heard this or this is how Christian heard this 325 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:07,320 or this is how Addison heard this immediately he is appeal to 326 00:18:07,360 --> 00:18:11,400 a higher level in me, my desire to be godly, my desire to be 327 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:15,640 kind, my desire to be wise and he's saying I know your heart, I 328 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:18,840 know your desire. This is what you did and and I 329 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:22,920 know that that's in conflict with who you really are and you 330 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:25,800 know what that does that calls me higher where I'm like, Oh my 331 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:27,120 gosh, OK, I'm going to call them. 332 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,840 Oh, I didn't mean to do that. OK, I can totally see how that 333 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:35,160 came across because sometimes life gets stressful and we don't 334 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:38,760 even know that we're saying or doing things that can come 335 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:41,000 across. And so again, believing the best 336 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:44,320 of one another and then reinterpreting things. 337 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:48,120 So like, for example, you, you are married to a husband who is 338 00:18:48,120 --> 00:18:50,360 my personality. I've had, I've heard you say a 339 00:18:50,360 --> 00:18:54,640 couple times, all right, Mrs. Arden, just like very we're 340 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:57,480 going to approach things very directly. 341 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:02,400 And I don't like I don't like open accounts. 342 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:04,640 I don't like going to bed with things unresolved. 343 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:07,520 I don't where it's kind of funny because John was the one you 344 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:10,720 said chase me around. I just didn't know how to get 345 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:13,880 out of the conflict. So I think when John was like, 346 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:16,240 let's make it right, I was like, I don't know how to get out of 347 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:18,920 it because again, I never got out of it with my mom. 348 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:20,960 I never got out of it with my family. 349 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:23,040 It was a per pet. Like, do we actually have the 350 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:26,200 right to go to bed? Can you? 351 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:30,120 And and be at peace with one, even if we don't agree. 352 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:34,680 And I think you know, and John was a big, big believer of don't 353 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:36,840 let the sun go down our wrath. I'm like, we started fighting 354 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:38,880 when it was dark. I have till tomorrow night. 355 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:41,040 He would like pull off the covers. 356 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:43,400 He would he would be like, no, we're not doing this. 357 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,120 We have to stay up until we sort through this. 358 00:19:46,120 --> 00:19:48,760 And I was like, I'm just tired. And then I would say stupid 359 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:51,560 things like, well, I forgive you by faith. 360 00:19:52,120 --> 00:19:55,160 By faith. Like, what is that exactly? 361 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:56,520 Meaning I don't really forgive you. 362 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:58,320 I just forgive you because I want to go to sleep. 363 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:01,080 And then if his feet came over on my side of the bed, I'd kick 364 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:02,240 him. Like, get your feet off on me. 365 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:04,960 So it was obviously, there was no love, no forgiveness. 366 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:07,880 But I do think sometimes couples get just really tired. 367 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:10,720 They've got kids or life and it's tired. 368 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:15,840 You have to pick a time where you 2 are at your best, not 369 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:18,320 navigating a problem at your worst. 370 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:21,040 Navigate it at your best. And so John and I, we actually 371 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:24,400 had two chairs in our bedroom where we would talk. 372 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:28,840 And if either person felt attacked, they had the right to 373 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:33,080 get up and say, you know what? Let's let's let's regroup, not 374 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:37,120 storm out like I'm mad at you. Both people need to speak. 375 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:42,080 And one of the things that we have learned is John, I both can 376 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:44,200 lawyer mode. We have an argument going. 377 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:46,840 We're going and I have I'm making my argument and the whole 378 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,000 time he's talking, I'm not listening. 379 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:51,800 I'm making my argument the whole time I'm talking, he's not 380 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:52,360 listening. He's me. 381 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:56,120 So we we had a counselor say you're going to have to repeat 382 00:20:56,120 --> 00:20:59,320 what the person said. And sometimes the person doesn't 383 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:02,440 even know how we heard it. So sometimes you say, So what 384 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:08,840 I'm hearing is AB and C and then we acknowledge we heard and then 385 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:12,480 we say, And at the same time, meaning I'm going to acknowledge 386 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:15,960 what you just said. But at the same time, I'm going 387 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:19,800 to add in how this feels for me or what this looks like or the 388 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:24,440 consequence or the, the challenge that is going on. 389 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:28,080 And so at the same time, you're bringing both things to the 390 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:31,800 table, you're honoring both views instead of saying your 391 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:33,480 view is in conflict with my view. 392 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:36,480 We're bringing both things and we're like bringing it again, 393 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:38,680 same side of the table problem over here. 394 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:41,120 At the same time, this is my concern. 395 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:43,400 At the same time, I hear what you're saying. 396 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:47,760 And yet, you know, and so having that and then our family, I, I, 397 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,400 I kind of, I'm trying to remember if our families ever 398 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:53,560 fought in front of you. But I do remember Jessica crying 399 00:21:54,360 --> 00:21:56,840 over the catch phrase. I do remember. 400 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:00,680 And we laughed because it's like we moved through those moments. 401 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:02,680 Like if it was hard, we wouldn't be laughing. 402 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:04,320 But yeah. Family even didn't even know we 403 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:06,160 were fighting. We were like this is catch 404 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:08,400 phrase and it's serious. I mean John just held that too 405 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:10,520 long. I mean he does on purpose made 406 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:12,440 that buzzer. I mean, and then code names. 407 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:19,760 I mean I and if I remember right, it was you, me and Julie 408 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:22,920 telling John he'd broke the rules. 409 00:22:23,120 --> 00:22:25,640 Because the boys were cheating, we wanted a fair chance. 410 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:27,560 They were. Cheating and Jessica, like, 411 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,000 started crying because it's just a game. 412 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:33,600 We're like, this is not a game. This is this is bragging rights. 413 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:35,960 This is justice. This is a game. 414 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,960 This is like it's character. Yeah, I. 415 00:22:39,120 --> 00:22:41,920 Needless to say, don't come join our family for a game night. 416 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,320 So you probably don't want to join us for a game night, but 417 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:47,680 you should come for a family dinner because we do those well. 418 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:52,720 Yeah, because one thing we don't have a beef about is where we 419 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:54,520 get our. Beef. 420 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:55,640 That's true. Yeah. 421 00:22:56,120 --> 00:23:00,960 We love good ranchers. They even have this deal going 422 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,680 on where if you use the code Bevier, the crazy family that 423 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:07,960 can't do game nights, you use that code, you can get $40 off 424 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,080 their spring into action deal, or at least that they have 425 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:13,440 chicken Nuggets, they have beef, I think they even have fish. 426 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,640 And that comes in every one of your subscriptions for a year. 427 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:18,960 I'm telling you. And this morning he was like, 428 00:23:19,120 --> 00:23:22,080 our box is coming, Our box is coming and we're so excited 429 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:26,480 because it's Lizzie's birthday dinner soon and we're like, Oh 430 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,760 yeah, we need it for G daddy chicken. 431 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:31,800 Yes. And they we love their chicken. 432 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:35,200 We love their beef. We love the fact that we can 433 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:36,960 choose the different cuts that we get. 434 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:39,120 And I know. And it's clean bacon. 435 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:40,400 Oh my goodness. And it is. 436 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:44,920 Clean ingredients, there is no antibiotics and it is hormone 437 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:46,000 free. It is so good. 438 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:50,360 So if you go to thelinkthatisbelow@goodrangers.com/lisa 439 00:23:50,360 --> 00:23:53,480 you can use a code bevier and get $40 off. 440 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,400 That's a lot of good meat and it'll come right to your house. 441 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:58,600 Yeah, seriously, just the time saving is crazy. 442 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,760 So that's good ranchers, American meat delivered. 443 00:24:02,120 --> 00:24:05,000 Navigating conflict with little kids, That's something that 444 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,520 people are like, OK, my kids are are little or they're in those 445 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:10,560 formative years. What do you do when conflict 446 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:12,760 arises? Do you send them to your room so 447 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,440 you can fight? Do you navigate as an example in 448 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:17,880 front of them? Do you have like, OK, So 449 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,720 unfortunately I almost feel like we didn't do this well. 450 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,840 OK, it's a lesson. Yeah, So, you know, again, John 451 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,800 and I at the dinner table, something comes up and Dun, Dun, 452 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:31,920 Dun, like the whole atmosphere changed. 453 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:33,600 I'm like, what do you mean you're doing? 454 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:34,840 And then John's like, what do you mean? 455 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,240 I'm the head of the household and I'm like, what's going on 456 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:39,840 here? And then like, there's this 457 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:41,800 fight. And then we realize our children 458 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,600 are like, what is going? Like our children, their little 459 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:46,520 faces. And we're like, you know what? 460 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:48,680 We're going to, we're going to step out. 461 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,720 We're just we're going to step out of the room or we're going. 462 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:53,520 To eat your pasta. We're going to, we're going to 463 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:57,760 do this. Our rule was if we fight in any 464 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:02,000 way, shape or form in front of the children, we need to come 465 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,640 back to them so they know there's resolution, so they're 466 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:07,320 not carrying that fear. Like I used to listen to my 467 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:10,200 parents fight Christian. I would, they would start 468 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:11,360 yelling and screaming each other. 469 00:25:11,360 --> 00:25:15,000 And I had like a secret hiding place in this living room 470 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,960 between the two sofas where they're fighting in the family 471 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,040 room where I could hear everything. 472 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:23,720 And I would listen and I would listen to the the hateful 473 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,720 comments, but I never got to to hear resolution. 474 00:25:28,360 --> 00:25:34,760 And I think that children seeing their parents fight isn't 475 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:41,520 traumatic as long as they see their parents have resolution. 476 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:46,440 And you know, for me having four sons, you know, I would 477 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:48,960 sometimes come back and say, hey, guys, listen. 478 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:51,520 You know how I talked to your dad? 479 00:25:52,120 --> 00:25:55,080 That was very disrespectful. And my boys would be like, yeah, 480 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:56,720 we knew that. I'd be like, OK, good. 481 00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:58,040 And they're like, we're glad you knew that. 482 00:25:58,040 --> 00:25:59,800 I'm like, thanks. And then John would say, you 483 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,440 know how I talked to your mom? I was completely out of line. 484 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:04,320 That was harsh and that was unnecessary. 485 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,320 And my boys would be like, yeah, we knew that, too. 486 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:07,160 OK. We're really glad. 487 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:11,040 We're all good. So I think it was helpful for 488 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:16,200 our boys to see that we could have a disagreement and not 489 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:19,160 disband. We could have a disagreement and 490 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:23,000 grow from it, have a disagreement and and not have a 491 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:27,680 conflict like that continued in perpetual, you know, so again, 492 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,600 ideally don't fight in front of your kids. 493 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:34,040 That would be the ideal. It's not life is not always 494 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:35,680 ideal. And so if you're going to have a 495 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:37,680 disagreement, we're going to follow the rules. 496 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:39,400 We're not going to attack one another's character. 497 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,640 We're not going to pull the kids into it, you know, like tell 498 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,680 your dad or tell your mommy, which thankfully that was one 499 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:51,840 thing that we never did. So but yeah, having having clear 500 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:53,600 rules. You know, what's really 501 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,360 fascinating about that, like just adds a layer is I think I 502 00:26:56,360 --> 00:26:59,640 might send you this video, but I saw this researcher, he said. 503 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,520 I was really curious what produced children that grew up 504 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,040 to still love the Lord, still keep in faith. 505 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:09,320 And the number one predictor, I want to say it's by like 90% was 506 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:11,480 parents that admitted when they messed up. 507 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,800 Yes, so that's just fascinating. It's not only like, OK, well 508 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,200 we're just making the kids not mad at us or scared of mom and 509 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:19,720 dad. You're also creating something 510 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,240 foundational within them. And I mean, thank goodness we 511 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,960 see that as evidence in your. A different story. 512 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,960 I wish it wasn't like, oh, we model repentance and humility 513 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:32,680 and vulnerability on a regular basis. 514 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:36,120 But you know, we have this unique challenge that not every 515 00:27:36,120 --> 00:27:38,240 family has, but a lot of family would like to have. 516 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:42,360 And that is we don't just, we're not just family, we do life as a 517 00:27:42,360 --> 00:27:46,040 family and we do work as a family, not all of the family, 518 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:50,840 but quite a bit of the family. We all work together and, you 519 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:55,360 know, do life near one another. And that has its own unique 520 00:27:55,360 --> 00:27:58,360 challenges and benefits and benefits. 521 00:27:58,360 --> 00:28:02,760 And so, yeah, I, I love that. And again, we, we don't, we 522 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,960 don't, I wanted to emphasize again, we are not endorsing 523 00:28:06,360 --> 00:28:10,760 physical abuse. We are not endorsing, you know, 524 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:14,200 people staying in unhealthy situations. 525 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:19,000 But I do think too many people get called narcissists. 526 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,040 Just, it seems to be a catch phrase for everybody when 527 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,960 there's actually a really small percentage of the population 528 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:28,640 that's truly narcissistic. I do think too many people give 529 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:30,960 up. I do think too many people feel 530 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,920 isolated and alone in conflict and they don't know how to break 531 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,040 a pattern. And I think one of the most 532 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:40,800 powerful things you can do as a wife or as a mother or in a 533 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,600 family situation is you humble yourself and say, I've 534 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,920 mishandled this. I want a relationship with you. 535 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:51,880 I I want to know how I can do this better. 536 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:55,920 And I know one way is to actually just start by saying I 537 00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:58,240 should not have it, you know, whatever it is not packed your 538 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,160 character or I should not, I should have listened to you 539 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,880 before I spoke on something. I should have asked questions 540 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,320 instead of accused. There's a lot of different 541 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,840 things and there's so many people out there that it that 542 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:14,600 are facilitating offense and unforgiveness and cutting people 543 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,680 off. And I, I just would love to see 544 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:24,040 the body of Christ move to going to one another for unity and 545 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:28,680 forgiveness and growth and, and navigating conflict in a way 546 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:30,360 that we come through it and it's healthy. 547 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,640 I we have a pastor that said you don't. 548 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:34,520 You don't really know people until you've gone through 549 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:36,840 something hard with them because it's really easy to get along 550 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,280 when there's nothing. That's true, it's easy to just 551 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:43,160 float on the surface. IA 100% agree with you of I just 552 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:44,960 feel like that those terminologies have become 553 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,320 rampant. But for the person that is 554 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:50,200 trying to navigate conflict well, and there's someone that 555 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,360 it truly is like gaslighting or perpetually lying or shaming 556 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,720 with forgiving and humbling themselves, what can they do? 557 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,520 Or maybe what's the point where hey, we need to bring a third 558 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:03,520 party into this? How do they? 559 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,360 I do think Matthew 18 works. You go to them directly If you 560 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:09,480 can't, if they don't hear you and this is somebody that you, 561 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,960 you know, you like, you work with them or you're married to 562 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,280 them or they're in your family and they're just like, yeah, or 563 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:18,720 whatever. Then, then you do bring a third 564 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,760 person, but you don't bring a third person to accuse, you 565 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,760 bring a third person to say, hey, we're, we're at an impasse 566 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,400 and we need to be able to have a conversation and we don't, we 567 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:28,800 have, we can't take it any further. 568 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,800 And, and John and I have friends that we can do that with that 569 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,720 have been amazing. Even within our family where 570 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:36,480 there's been confusing. We're like, hey, let's just 571 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:38,400 bring these people on. They love all of us. 572 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,080 Let's, let's get their wisdom. We're too close to this. 573 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:45,640 And, and if the person still doesn't listen, you know if it's 574 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:49,480 a dangerous situation, you know, if, if they don't want help, if 575 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:51,560 then, then there's a different conversation. 576 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:56,760 That's so good, so practical takeaways that we heard are talk 577 00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:58,760 to them in a way that you would want to be talked to, right? 578 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:01,800 Pray for forgiveness, pray against offense. 579 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:04,880 Try not to argue in front of your kids. 580 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:09,120 But if you do model with forgiveness and and humility, 581 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,720 Those are the some things that I'm taking away from. 582 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:16,960 And conversation, I think the idea of don't attack their 583 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,760 character, attack the problem that's that's a huge one for so 584 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,240 many people. So I hope this has helped you. 585 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:27,040 I hope this has given you some insight and ideas on how to 586 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,400 navigate conflict. Do not push it down. 587 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:36,360 Do not attack. Remember you are not seeing a 588 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,760 person as a problem. You have a problem that you need 589 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,840 to address with the person. So again, if you want to build 590 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:47,840 relationship and not just burn bridges, we need to learn how to 591 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,640 navigate conflict in a healthy way. 592 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:53,280 Thank you so much for listening to this episode. 593 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:56,400 We hope that it gives you some starting points to navigating 594 00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,400 better conflict within your family, your friends, or within 595 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:01,400 your world. And if you would, will you give 596 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,400 us a like a comment or a subscribe so we can keep making 597 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,840 these episodes with you in mind and we will see you next time.