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How come nobody ever talks about
Genesis 6 one through 4? 

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Who are these Nephilim for? 
The sons of God? 

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See the daughters of man desire 
them, and then they produce 

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offspring. 
These offspring that are these 

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Nephilim that are on the earth 
in those days and in the days 

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after. 
What's going on here? 

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I think our modern 21st century 
mind wants to read into the text

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a kind of rationalization in 
order to demythologize the 

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Bible. 
Most Christians, they have the 

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helmet of salvation. 
If they're Bible reading, they 

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have a sword but that's about it
and they are not understanding 

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what's going on in. 
The issue for Eve and Adam was 

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not the appearance of the 
serpent. 

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The issue is how would they grow
in knowledge? 

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Wow. 
The enemy wants us to have the 

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fullness of knowledge but lack 
the wisdom and discernment and 

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maturity to know what to do with
it. 

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There's something else that's 
going on, and this is the book 

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of Enoch, and Enoch in that 
first book, it tells us. 

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Welcome to today's episode. 
I am so excited. 

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We're going to be talking about 
the unseen battle. 

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I am joined with Doctor Joel 
Matamali is I wanted to get it 

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right the first time. 
I'm so excited. 

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I know all of you are like I'm 
seeing a battle. 

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No, there is way more than what 
meets the eye. 

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And I am so excited that you've 
joined us and I'm so thankful 

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for the people that make this 
program possible. 

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And if you want to find out how 
you can get involved, you can 

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should go to the link below. 
But right now I just want to 

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dive into this. 
Joel, thank you for writing this

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book. 
The unseen Battle. 

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You didn't know, but our paths 
crossed while I was working on a

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manuscript. 
I, I love Doctor Michael Heizer.

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I know that he was your mentor, 
that he was your hero, that he 

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opened up your eyes to so many 
things. 

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And I listened to you talk to 
him. 

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Then I found out that you were 
friends with my son, sons of 

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mine. 
They hide things from me, but I 

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I love of your heart. 
I know that you are so active 

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with theology and therapy that 
you Co host that with Lisa 

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Turkers. 
But you are such a deep well. 

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And this is this is such a 
needed message right now because

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I think we have an awareness 
that things are like dark and 

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confusing. 
But this is nothing new, right? 

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This is nothing new. 
And this can sometimes come in 

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cycles. 
So what was your motivation for 

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the book The Unseen Battle? 
Well, so this is actually the 

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adaptation of my PhD 
dissertation. 

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And so you mentioned Doctor 
Michael Heizer, my 2 advisors. 

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My first shooter is a guy named 
Doctor Patrick Shriner, New 

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Testament scholar. 
Brilliant wrote a bunch on the 

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Ascension and is still a 
prolific writer right now. 

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Mike was my second reader, a 
Hebrew semitics languages 

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specialist. 
I joke about Mike, you know, you

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know that you're good in the 
original languages when you 

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think in Greek and Hebrew, but 
you know that your next level 

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when you tell jokes in Greek and
Hebrews and and Mike did that, 

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but also with all the Semitic 
languages, Acadian and Ugaritic 

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and and the such. 
But the thing about Mike was he 

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really believed that theology, 
which is often reserved for the 

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ivory towers, ought to me be 
made accessible to the everyday 

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average Bible reader that just 
wants to know Jesus more. 

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And there's a way to take the 
substance of theology and 

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communicate it while you hold on
to the substance, but you still 

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make it applicable, you know? 
And so I remember when I first 

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met Mike, and Mike suggested to 
me that in Psalm 82 and in 

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Genesis 6, the sons of God that 
are referenced there are not 

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human rulers, but actually 
angelic beings, to which I 

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panicked. 
Lisa, I'll be honest. 

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Like you're. 
Like wait, wait, who? 

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Who am I with right now? 
Yeah, like what is going on? 

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And I'm and, and just for the 
context, when you walked into 

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Mike's office, he used to, he 
was a scholar in residence at 

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Logos Bible Software and I used 
to work there. 

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So we go back 20 years, 18 
years, and you walk into Mike's 

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office, right behind his desk is
a sign that says reserved 

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parking for Hebrew Semitic 
scholars, right? 

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Like this is next level nerd, 
you know? 

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And I walked him like, there's 
no way, Mike. 

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Psalm 82 and Genesis 6 are about
human rulers. 

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And Mike, he had the opportunity
there to eviscerate me just so 

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you know, like he could have 
gone to the Hebrew, the Aramaic,

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he could write. 
But there's something that Mike 

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did that has marked me forever. 
And he looked at me and he said,

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huh, that's interesting, Joel, 
Hey, have a seat. 

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Why do you think that? 
Right? 

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And in humility, he actually 
invited me into a conversation. 

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And that's when I was kind of 
like, wait a minute, maybe 

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there's more to the Bible than 
what I thought I knew. 

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And maybe I need to start to 
read the Bible on its own terms,

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not my terms. 
You know, my husband always says

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we always read what we believe 
instead of believe what we read.

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That's right. 
Yeah. 

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We have all of this preconceived
idea things that we heard and 

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then we just read it that way. 
So I that was a gift. 

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Yeah. 
I'll and I want to wrap that up 

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with like, why did I write the 
book? 

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Right? 
Because I spent seven years of 

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my life writing a dissertation, 
defending it, going into deep 

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nerdy theology stuff. 
I really believe that there's a 

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cosmic worldview that that 
angels, demons, spiritual 

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warfare is a real thing. 
It's part of the fabric of 

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scripture. 
But here's actually what 

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happened. 
I'm sitting in Atlanta. 

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I'm, I'm in Atlanta with my 
family and we're at this really 

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cool spot in Atlanta where the 
bottom floor is all this food, 

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you know, and then the top floor
is these boutique like stores 

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and clothing and toy stores and 
stuff. 

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And my 5 year old daughter, she 
was 4 at the time and my three 

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boys and we're walking through 
and there's this boutique toy 

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store and we're like, oh, this 
would be a great place. 

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And me super into horses and 
unicorns. 

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And so I'm like, we can find 
something awesome there. 

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And I walk by and, you know, the
glass display is the most, like,

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prime real estate, you know, 
like, whatever you're trying to 

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sell, the most important things 
are in the glass case. 

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And I'm walking by and there's a
dad and his daughter. 

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And his daughter must have been 
10 or 11 years old. 

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And I just overhear the 
conversation. 

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And it's the girl that goes, 
hey, daddy, what's that? 

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And the dad looks, and I'm not 
joking with you, Lisa. 

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It was a Ouija board right there
on the display. 

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I'm not in a weird shop like Hot
Topic or like, no, no, no. 

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This is like aimed at everybody 
right next to the Legos. 

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My parents gave me one for 
Christmas. 

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I mean, so like, and so I 
remember that the dad had a 

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visceral reaction to it, but he 
didn't have language. 

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He's like, I'm not. 
And then find the girls like can

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we? 
And and it was marketed. 

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I remember like the marketing 
for it was like, get the answers

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that you've always wished you 
could know. 

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You know, something along those 
lines. 

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And there goes this dad and this
daughter to explore something 

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that is actually a gateway into 
the demonic realm. 

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And at that point I realized, 
oh, this is not a question of if

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this is an important topic. 
It is an important topic. 

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And the spiritual. 
We live in a culture that is 

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more attuned and accustomed to 
the spiritual reality, and yet 

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Christians have the most 
coherent answer and response to 

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the things of the Spirit. 
But if we're not equipped to 

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rightly talk about it, dark 
forces will leverage that desire

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to know and utilize it to 
deceive us, to divide us, and 

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ultimately to destroy us. 
Well, you know, I always thought

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it was so interesting. 
People would be like, oh, you 

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can't talk to the dead. 
That's weird. 

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And I'd be like, OK, why would 
God say don't talk to the dead 

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if you can't go to a different 
if all of this is fake, why? 

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Why would God say don't sue? 
Say? 

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Why would he say so there? 
Is from the medium, say away 

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from this. 
This is all Leviticus 19 one 

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right for Samuel 28. 
Yes, it was all real. 

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And, and, and I've even met 
Christians that believe that 

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there is no demonic anymore. 
I'm like, are you even looking 

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at social media? 
I mean, like where, where, where

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is all this coming from? 
And, and I know Doctor Michael 

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Heiser had written The Unseen 
Realm. 

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So I'm so thankful that you took
that, brought it forward and 

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made it like a practical but 
prophetic and grounded in 

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theology battle. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

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Mike's work was so helpful 
because it gave kind of the 

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background of the ancient Near 
Eastern world and the Greco 

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Roman world. 
And the thing that that I always

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dreamed about Co authoring with 
Mike was that next step of once 

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you have eyes to see and the 
ability to comprehend the unseen

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realm, the question is what is 
the activity that's happening in

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that realm? 
And we live in a world where we 

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like to separate the spiritual 
from the earthly, you know, but 

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the ancient worldview never 
separated these two things. 

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What happened in in the heavens 
always had an impact in the 

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earth. 
And what took place on the earth

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always had an impact in the 
heavens. 

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And in fact, the story of 
creation is a story of a return 

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to Eden. 
Well, what is Eden? 

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It's the cosmic mountain garden,
home of God, where heaven and 

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earth met together. 
And so what's happening and what

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you and I live in today is the 
reality of a cosmic battle. 

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It's an unseen battle, but we 
feel the repercussions of it. 

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Yes, everywhere. 
And like, like, I mean, you just

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open up with just so like the 
from like just your health. 

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You know, I just saw James Van 
Der Beek just passed away from 

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from cancer is like a childhood 
like movie star actor for all of

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us to watch Dawson's Creek and 
stuff. 

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And you look at then you go, he 
left me on the family and kids. 

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And you look at the the impact 
of just something like cancer 

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and how sin enters into our body
and disrupts our body. 

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You know, so you go from that to
then the evils of human sex 

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trafficking. 
You know, I was just talking to 

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my mom. 
My grandparents are missionaries

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in India and they're saying that
in Hyderabad, which is the area 

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that my grandparents do 
ministry, it's one of the 

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fastest growing, largest 
trafficked states, city states 

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in India. 
And it's like, wait a minute, 

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these are the earthly breaking 
in of what is evil and demonic 

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in the spiritual realm. 
And so we've got to be able to 

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like, see it, assess it, and 
then know what the Lord has 

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given us in order to fight 
against it. 

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this year, so let's remember the

198
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It's a lot. 

208
00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:40,880
You know, Doctor Heiser invited 
you into a conversation and I 

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00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:44,280
just really want you to kind of 
take people on some of these 

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things that you were like, whoa,
whoa. 

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00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:50,880
If I've not recognized or seen 
that, like we talked about the 

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00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:53,840
there, you know, the three 
rebellions and the divine 

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00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:56,360
council. 
Can you start to talk about some

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of these things? 
Because I I've gotten to see 

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little YouTube clips where I 
know all of a sudden you were 

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00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:02,600
like, wait, but you've blown my 
mind. 

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00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:08,040
People need to know what's going
on and I I want, I want them to 

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not think this is just another 
not that would be wrong because 

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we need spiritual warfare 
things. 

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00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:18,880
But but can you talk to us about
what you learned and why it's 

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important? 
Because it is important. 

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But why? 
Why now? 

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Yeah, I want to start with like 
if you go to the opening pages 

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of Job, like we can go to Job 
one and Job 2. 

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00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:34,840
Sometimes I think we are 
disconnected from how God self 

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reveals himself in Scripture. 
And they're two very important 

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00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:40,520
words I think that we get from 
God. 

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One is that he's a father. 
Like right off the get we get a 

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00:12:45,560 --> 00:12:49,240
good God who is a father and he 
has a family and he wants his 

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00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:52,920
family back together. 
But secondarily, he's not just a

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father. 
He's the father who's the king 

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of heaven and earth. 
He's the cosmic king. 

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00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:02,360
And throughout Scripture we got 
a presentation of God as a king 

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who sits on a throne, who's in a
Royal Court, and in his court 

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are family members. 
And these family members have 

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vocation and responsibility. 
And often we think, Oh yeah, of 

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course God's human children, 
right? 

238
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But it's not just as human 
children. 

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00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:23,080
There's actually angelic beings,
spiritual beings that God 

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00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:27,120
created to participate in his 
work and in his vocation. 

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00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,600
Like we would know Michael. 
Michael the Archangel Gabriel. 

242
00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:32,800
Yep. 
But there was more. 

243
00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:36,320
But there's more and there's 
specific Hebrew terms and 

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00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:39,800
phrases that indicate this, and 
one of them is the most 

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00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:43,040
important is the Hebrew phrase 
benet elohim. 

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00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:46,360
So the word bene means sons. 
Elohim is gods. 

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00:13:46,560 --> 00:13:51,080
So it's the sons of God. 
Right off the bat, you get like 

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this idea that these angelic 
beings have some kind of 

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familial responsibility within 
the household of God. 

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00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:00,200
I know people are listening like
Joel, you got to prove this 

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00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,560
because that sounds like, I 
don't know that I've ever read 

252
00:14:02,560 --> 00:14:05,440
that. 
So if you look at Job chapter 1 

253
00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:11,880
and you look to verse six one 
verse 6, it says this one day 

254
00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:16,120
the sons of God, the Hebrew 
phrases been Elohim came to 

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00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:19,520
present themselves before the 
Lord and Satan. 

256
00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:20,800
The Hebrew here is kind of 
important. 

257
00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:22,640
It's the Hassiton. 
There's an article in front of 

258
00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:27,120
Satan and Satan also came with 
them and the Lord asked Satan, 

259
00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:28,800
where have you come from? 
He's like, you know, I've been 

260
00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:30,560
roaming through and fro from the
earth. 

261
00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:32,760
And then the Lord said to Satan,
have you considered? 

262
00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,200
So I got I love this God, 
someone who picks the fight. 

263
00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:37,640
He's like, Have you thought 
while you were? 

264
00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:39,880
Looking Did you notice? 
Yep. 

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00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:44,520
And then at the top of chapter 2
it says verse one, one day the 

266
00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:47,920
sons of God came again to 
present themselves before the 

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00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:52,160
Lord, and Satan also came with 
them to present himself before 

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00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:54,040
the Lord. 
So we have to ask ourselves this

269
00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:56,640
question, where is this taking 
place? 

270
00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:01,560
Is this taking place in an 
earthly setting or in a heavenly

271
00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:04,120
setting? 
And we'd be like, well, no, 

272
00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:06,200
clearly this is a heavenly 
setting. 

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00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:09,000
Spiritual beings are presented 
here. 

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00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:12,400
And not only are they presented,
they have tasks, they have 

275
00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:16,160
vocation that God is speaking. 
God's even challenging and and 

276
00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:20,800
giving kind of a fight to Satan 
of saying, like, have you 

277
00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:25,440
checked out Job, my son? 
OK, now, now flip to Job 38. 

278
00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:29,560
And this is kind of important. 
In Job 38, God finally speaks, 

279
00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:31,520
right? 
It's like a whole bunch of 

280
00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:34,320
chapters got silent. 
Job is just pontificating with 

281
00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:36,280
his friends. 
Exactly. 

282
00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:40,000
And then finally, God speaks and
it's actually a rhetorical 

283
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:43,800
device, the way that God speaks.
It's in Hebrew poetry. 

284
00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:48,760
It's the same way a father would
speak to a child to actually 

285
00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:52,360
lead them into discipleship. 
And so that's something I often 

286
00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:55,200
miss when I would be, I kind of 
feel like, oh, God's punitive. 

287
00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:57,120
And he's kind of like, you know,
kind of giving it to Job. 

288
00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:00,240
That's not the intent of the 
Hebrew language behind this. 

289
00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:04,040
It's actually of a loving God, a
loving father who says, hey, 

290
00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:06,600
Job, I want you to pay attention
and I want you to consider these

291
00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:09,000
things right? 
And one of things that he says 

292
00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:13,400
is Job 38, verse six, he says 
this what supports its 

293
00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:15,440
foundations. 
He's talking about the earth or 

294
00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:20,920
who laid its cornerstone, verse 
7, while the morning stars sang 

295
00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:27,920
together and all the wild sons 
of God shouted for joy, Benet 

296
00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:30,360
Elohim. 
This is talking about the very 

297
00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,240
beginning, the creation of all 
things. 

298
00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:38,400
And so that's kind of the 
textual theological proof and 

299
00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,360
evidence and so many more sons 
of God instances throughout the 

300
00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:45,320
Bible that lets us know that God
has both the human family and 

301
00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:48,160
the cosmic family, angelic 
family. 

302
00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:52,560
Now what ends up happening is 
there are a series of rebellions

303
00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:58,040
that takes place and the 
rebellions mimic both in the 

304
00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:01,000
cosmic realm, in the heavenly 
realm to the earthly realm, 

305
00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:03,560
right? 
So Lisa, this is one of the 

306
00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:06,040
things that Mike said to me that
absolutely shook me. 

307
00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:11,359
And he was like, hey, Joel, if 
we if some were to ask you why 

308
00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:12,599
is there so much evil in the 
world? 

309
00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:14,760
What would you say? 
Which chapter in the Bible would

310
00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:17,000
you turn to? 
I mean, most people turn 

311
00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:19,720
immediately to Genesis. 
Yeah, Genesis 3 in the fall, 

312
00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:22,359
right, Right. 
But if you talk to a person who 

313
00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:24,560
lived during the time period of 
the Second Temple, right. 

314
00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:29,080
So we have these 400 years of 
silence that we kind of call 

315
00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:31,960
Malachi to Matthew, right? 
But in the history of the 

316
00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:35,440
Israelites, there's prolific 
writing that's taking place. 

317
00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:38,200
They're trying to make sense. 
A lot of their angelology and 

318
00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:40,600
demonology takes place in the 
Second Temple literature. 

319
00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:45,320
And a, a Second Temple Jewish 
person would say, yeah, yeah, 

320
00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:47,880
Genesis 3, but don't forget 
Genesis 6. 

321
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:50,760
And and definitely don't forget 
what happens with the Tower of 

322
00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:54,680
Babylon, Genesis 11. 
And so in the Hebraic mind, 

323
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:56,960
there were these three 
rebellions. 

324
00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:02,360
And in each of the rebellions, 
you actually find a rebellion in

325
00:18:02,360 --> 00:18:05,720
both layers of God's 
supernatural family and his 

326
00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:09,520
earthly family. 
And that all deals with seeing 

327
00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:14,440
something, desiring that thing, 
and then determining to take it 

328
00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:18,360
for yourself. 
So we could start in Genesis 3. 

329
00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:22,240
Have you ever wondered least do 
people call you Lisa? 

330
00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:25,880
I'm not sure they call you Lisa.
Lisa Harper calls me Lisa. 

331
00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:28,240
You can call me Lisa. 
I know so many Lisa's in my 

332
00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:29,880
life. 
I've got Lisa Turkers, who I 

333
00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:31,760
call Lisa. 
I'm the first, you're I'm the 

334
00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:33,880
oldest. 
OK, so that that that settles 

335
00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:38,040
right there. 
So have you ever wondered why 

336
00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:40,800
does Eve not freak out when the 
serpent starts talking to her? 

337
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:43,040
Because she was already talking 
to him before. 

338
00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:44,560
Right. 
Like OK. 

339
00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:46,520
Yeah, wasn't the first time she 
saw. 

340
00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:51,560
So, so often we read it and we 
just bypass that detail. 

341
00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:54,600
Yeah. 
So the Hebrew word for serpent 

342
00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:57,440
is nakash. 
And that word can mean three 

343
00:18:57,440 --> 00:18:59,200
things. 
It can mean a literal serpent. 

344
00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:03,440
It can mean a fiery bronze 
image, and it can also mean a 

345
00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:07,360
guardian cherubim. 
Yeah, which which is interesting

346
00:19:07,360 --> 00:19:11,000
that we've made the cherub a fat
little tiny baby when it's one 

347
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:15,480
of the most powerful it. 
Is a guardian it's a it's a 

348
00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:18,960
throne guardian right And the 
equivalency is actually found in

349
00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:22,520
the Egyptian mythology and even 
in Greek mythology, you get the 

350
00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:24,280
sense that the throne room the 
whole. 

351
00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:27,400
And in fact, this is so 
important that when God gives 

352
00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:32,080
the description to Moses on how 
to kind of construct the ark of 

353
00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:34,320
the covenant and all this, guess
what is the imagery that's 

354
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:36,640
presented? 
Cherubim are placed there, 

355
00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:40,120
right? 
And after the fall, what is 

356
00:19:40,120 --> 00:19:42,200
placed outside of Eden to 
protect? 

357
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,480
Them with the flaming sword that
turns every direction. 

358
00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:48,560
OK, so the issue, this is 
spiritual warfare, by the way. 

359
00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:53,880
The issue for Eve and Adam was 
not the appearance of the 

360
00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:57,120
serpent of the Nakash. 
It's something more deceptive. 

361
00:19:57,320 --> 00:19:59,800
It's the substance of what came 
out of the serpent's mouth, 

362
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:03,040
right? 
And so I think often like we 

363
00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:06,360
think about spiritual warfare 
and there's like the big overt 

364
00:20:06,360 --> 00:20:08,800
things, you know, which I 
totally believe that those are 

365
00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:11,200
there. 
I have a strong suspicion the 

366
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:13,560
enemy loves to work in the 
covert ways well. 

367
00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:16,120
He said he was more subtle. 100.
Percent. 

368
00:20:16,120 --> 00:20:19,080
So that's subtle. 
So here's the here's the subtle 

369
00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:21,360
team. 
And like, I want us to reimagine

370
00:20:21,360 --> 00:20:25,520
how we read Genesis 1-2. 
And three, we've got a garden. 

371
00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:27,880
The garden is the garden home of
God. 

372
00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:32,600
And in Genesis 3, we get this 
kind of routine description that

373
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:36,760
in the cool of the evening 
breeze, it was routine for God 

374
00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:40,120
to walk and talk with Adam and 
Eve. 

375
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:42,640
Right? 
So fair word of warning, my wife

376
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:45,520
Brett and I, we've been married 
for 16 years, 4 kids. 

377
00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:50,320
I, Lisa, am not a runner for fun
or a Walker for no reason. 

378
00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:52,880
OK, that is not my jam. 
I see you run through the 

379
00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:54,920
airports. 
Now I do run through airports 

380
00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:56,600
because I'm Indian and I'm 
always late. 

381
00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:59,960
So that's a, that's a big issue.
That's why I'm always racing and

382
00:20:59,960 --> 00:21:01,960
doing Instagram videos on my way
there. 

383
00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:04,360
But my girl, my wife, she loves 
to walk. 

384
00:21:04,360 --> 00:21:06,880
That girl, it can be 150° 
outside and she'd be like, 

385
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:08,360
today's a good day for a walk, 
right? 

386
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:10,360
You're like, it's not. 
It's not, it's never. 

387
00:21:10,360 --> 00:21:13,880
And so, but I've learned in 16 
years to show my love for my 

388
00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:15,040
wife. 
When she says you want to go out

389
00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:18,520
for a walk though my flesh, she 
says, no, I know the Spirit of 

390
00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:20,560
God is telling me you better say
yes to her, right? 

391
00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:24,240
And so, but in my brain I think,
oh, I want to do a cul-de-sac 

392
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:26,440
and we'll go 15 minutes and 
we'll be done. 

393
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:28,360
And inevitably that's what we'll
do. 

394
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:30,680
We'll get done and I'll look at 
her and be like, Hey, babe, 

395
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:34,120
we're done, right? 
And she'll be like, Nope, like 

396
00:21:34,120 --> 00:21:36,360
why? 
I thought we're, you know, it's 

397
00:21:36,360 --> 00:21:39,360
because the aim and ambition for
the both of us is so different. 

398
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:43,240
My aim is about a destination. 
I just want to get done with 

399
00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:46,400
this. 
But for her, it's the quality of

400
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:50,040
conversation and intimacy 
between the starting point and 

401
00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:52,560
the ending point. 
So she knows when she's done, 

402
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:55,200
when she's made that connection.
That's exactly it. 

403
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,280
When she has made that 
connection, what's so 

404
00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:01,880
fascinating is the Hebrew word 
for walk in Genesis chapter 3 

405
00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:05,120
that's described of God. 
It has no destination in mind. 

406
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:08,680
It is a leisurely walk. 
Yeah, an Italian. 

407
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:10,320
It's Passageata. 
It's what? 

408
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:12,480
Passageata. 
It means a passage. 

409
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:14,480
It means you Lange. 
You're supposed to. 

410
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:16,440
When you're done eating a meal, 
you're supposed to walk. 

411
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,240
No way. 
Yes, you know we share that in 

412
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:20,600
Indian culture too. 
Yes. 

413
00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:22,160
And it's love to walk right 
after. 

414
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:23,280
The you're supposed you're 
supposed to. 

415
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:26,680
It's good for you. 
Yeah, yeah, 1. 100% OK so think 

416
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:30,120
about that. 
What do you think Adam and Eve 

417
00:22:30,120 --> 00:22:32,160
would have done on a walk with 
God? 

418
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:34,720
Because it's a cool evening 
breeze, so they had spent all 

419
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:38,600
day working, doing. 
Discovering. 

420
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,960
Discovering being creative, 
right? 

421
00:22:42,120 --> 00:22:44,720
And probably coming across a 
couple of hiccups along the way,

422
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:47,040
right? 
Like I, I kind of wonder like 

423
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:50,200
did Adam at one point was like, 
you know, there's a lion and 

424
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,000
there's a tiger. 
How do I name which one? 

425
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,240
Which one is going to be the one
with the stripes and which one's

426
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:57,600
the one with the large mane? 
And I almost wonder if then 

427
00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:01,000
they're on a walk and, and 
talking to God and, and, and 

428
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:02,680
Adam's like Yahweh. 
What do you think? 

429
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,920
You know I've got this right. 
So what are they actually doing?

430
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:12,720
They're actually growing in 
wisdom and knowledge, in 

431
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:16,560
stature, but they're doing it in
the shadow of the wings of the 

432
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,480
Lord, in convert daily 
conversation. 

433
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,040
What does the serpent suggest 
for Adam and Eve? 

434
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:24,040
You don't need to be in 
relationship. 

435
00:23:25,120 --> 00:23:29,480
See the fruit. 
Desire the fruit and take of 

436
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:33,200
your own accord and eat it. 
You see, the issue is not if 

437
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:37,400
they would grow in knowledge. 
The issue is how would they grow

438
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,760
in knowledge. 
And the enemy wants us and this 

439
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:44,440
is so true for us today. 
The enemy wants us to have the 

440
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:49,760
fullness of knowledge, access to
everything in in our own, but 

441
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,200
lack the wisdom and discernment 
and maturity to know what to do 

442
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:54,800
with. 
It and it's good and good or 

443
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:58,000
evil. 
It's it's there's no wisdom 100%

444
00:23:58,000 --> 00:23:59,600
know the tree of the knowledge 
of God. 

445
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:03,720
That's exactly right. 
And so in this first rebellion, 

446
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:09,160
you have a transgression of a 
spiritual being that the path is

447
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,840
can you really trust God? 
Yeah, he's, he's, he's 

448
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:15,480
withholding. 
And that has been the plight of 

449
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:20,280
humanity ever since. 
I think the root of every sin, 

450
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:26,920
of every turmoil that either 
happens to us or we do in and of

451
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:31,320
ourselves is at the core a 
question of can I actually trust

452
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,600
that God is good for me, that he
has good for me, that he's a 

453
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:37,120
good father? 
He's in that place of doubt. 

454
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:39,960
I will determine to go to my own
things. 

455
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:42,640
Yeah. 
I I fear relational 

456
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:46,200
satisfaction, so I'll turn to 
pornography, Right. 

457
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:51,040
I fear I don't know how to 
handle the stress of my work and

458
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,160
my vocation. 
So it's just a, a single glass 

459
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,680
of whiskey a night. 
No big deal, right. 

460
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:01,880
And so it just spirals out of 
control because we don't go to 

461
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:05,120
the true source of satisfaction.
That's just the first rebellion.

462
00:25:06,120 --> 00:25:09,800
Just the first rebellion which 
is still enacting itself on all 

463
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,360
of us today, today. 
Yeah, yeah. 

464
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:14,600
Genesis 6. 
All right. 

465
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:17,400
When I say Genesis 6, what do 
you think? 

466
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:19,800
Well, I mean, I already talked 
to you ahead of time. 

467
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:20,920
So. 
So. 

468
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,880
But I mean, I think about the 
sons of God and the daughters of

469
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,600
man, and I immediately begin to 
think what's going on here? 

470
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:29,760
Yeah. 
What was your traditional 

471
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,040
understanding of that like? 
Take me back in the day. 

472
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,600
Until I'm a traditional heathen,
so I so no. 

473
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,640
So I had the gift of actually 
looking at the word of God with 

474
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:40,280
wonder. 
Wow. 

475
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:45,480
Because I had really that my 
upbringing did not discuss these

476
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,680
things. 
We did not we did not ask 

477
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:53,400
questions. 
We did not study the Bible, so I

478
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,920
literally always thought the 
sons of God were something 

479
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:58,040
angelic. 
Really. 

480
00:25:58,280 --> 00:25:59,320
Yes. 
Well, and I would. 

481
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,080
Keyed you in on that though. 
I love this. 

482
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,960
The sons of God saw the the 
daughters of man. 

483
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:08,200
I was like that, that that can't
be Seth because Seth is man, 

484
00:26:08,360 --> 00:26:10,480
because a lot of people say, Oh 
no, the sons of God are the 

485
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,800
descendants of Seth. 
But I was like, Seth is a man. 

486
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:17,960
So that doesn't make sense. 
And then I just was like, no, 

487
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:22,160
no. 
And I had thank God for this 

488
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:27,040
portion of my Catholic, Catholic
upbringing was I knew that there

489
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:30,120
was angels. 
And so I was like, oh, this is 

490
00:26:30,120 --> 00:26:33,080
talking about the angels and 
this might be about the 

491
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,360
watchers. 
This might be something 

492
00:26:35,360 --> 00:26:37,120
watchers, the watchers. 
Yes. 

493
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:41,800
See, I had I had some awareness 
and yeah, so I was like, no, 

494
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:46,080
this is this is the mix. 
And then I also had gotten a 

495
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,480
hold of a book that was written 
from some of the Septuagint that

496
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:54,400
actually we talked about some of
the darker, deeper things that 

497
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,960
were missing in some of the 
translations. 

498
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,560
You know, even that it's not 
good for man to be alone in his 

499
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,440
separation. 
Like there was like a pulling 

500
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,480
away. 
And yeah, so I, I did a deep 

501
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,840
dive early on pretty much to my 
husband's despair on some of 

502
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,840
this because I just, you know, 
when you, when you feel like 

503
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:18,480
you've lived your whole life and
you've missed something, you, 

504
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:23,920
you want to know everything. 
So I I I did have that reaction.

505
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,120
I think the of everything that 
you said, the thing that really 

506
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:31,160
resonates with my heart is 
reading the word of God with 

507
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,400
wonder. 
Yes, my gosh. 

508
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,160
Yes, I know. 
I like literally, I would sit 

509
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:40,800
there and I'd be like, wait a 
minute, it says now lest the man

510
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,920
put forth his hand. 
How'd the woman get out? 

511
00:27:44,120 --> 00:27:47,120
Like, I mean, I would ask 
questions because I would, you 

512
00:27:47,120 --> 00:27:49,280
know, I would hear in church 
women were lesser than. 

513
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:53,520
But I thought, well, but if 2, 
if 2, if one is less, they 

514
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,040
don't, they can't be 1. 
There's division. 

515
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:59,520
So even mathematically certain 
things didn't make sense to me. 

516
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,000
So. 
So this is kind of what ends up 

517
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,720
happening, and I'm just so 
grateful for your honesty and 

518
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,680
even that unique perspective. 
This is why typically I'll say 

519
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,160
theology should never be done in
isolation. 

520
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:12,600
Theology should always be done 
in the context of community. 

521
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:17,120
Yeah, and, and the thing about 
Genesis 6, I've, I grew up in 

522
00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:19,360
the church, right? 
And so my background was a 

523
00:28:19,360 --> 00:28:22,040
little bit different. 
And I remember every vacation 

524
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:25,520
Bible school school, like if 
you're to do a top five of the 

525
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,600
Hollywood hit list of the 
vacation Bible schools, the 

526
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,040
flood is on every single one of 
them. 

527
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:34,480
Like it might be a top three, 
you know, And yet I remember 

528
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:39,080
once thinking, how come nobody 
ever talks about Genesis 6 one 

529
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:43,120
through 4? 
We love to get to the flood, but

530
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:44,760
we never talked about the 
precursor. 

531
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:46,120
But. 
Why? 

532
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:48,160
But why did there have to be a 
flood? 

533
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:52,240
And and then it's like the other
that kind of incoherence is who 

534
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:57,480
are these Nephilim? 
So the sons of God see the 

535
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:03,080
daughters of man, desire them, 
take them, take them, linguistic

536
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:04,680
pack. 
Better say they love them, take 

537
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:06,160
them, take. 
Them, yeah, right. 

538
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:11,520
And then they produce offspring,
these offspring that are these 

539
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:15,920
Nephilim that are on the earth 
in those days and in the days 

540
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,720
after. 
Did you see in the Epstein files

541
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:23,120
that there is the mention? 
I saw that, yeah, I saw that of 

542
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:24,840
a chamber like a. 
Of the Chamber. 

543
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:26,200
Nephilim chamber or something 
like that. 

544
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:28,200
Yes, I. 
Yeah, that was oh, I thought 

545
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:29,520
Joel was going to like that. 
Oh. 

546
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,960
I yeah, 100%. 
And so like, OK, so what's 

547
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:34,880
happened? 
Genesis 6 This is what happens 

548
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:41,480
sometimes is I think our modern 
21st century mind wants to read 

549
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:46,320
into the text a kind of 
rationalization in order to 

550
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:50,120
demythologize the Bible. 
Well, it scares us if we can't 

551
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,000
understand it. 
Yes, exactly. 

552
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,280
It's like humility is so 
important for us, right? 

553
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,120
And like Lisa, if I were to say 
this, I think you would have 

554
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:02,120
like tell me what part of the 
statement is not supernatural in

555
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:04,680
nature. 
That the foundation of what we 

556
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:09,680
believe as Christians is that 
God became man in Christ Jesus, 

557
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:14,200
retained 100% of his divinity, 
took upon humanity upon himself,

558
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,520
came into earth through 
Immaculate Conception, was 

559
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:22,720
literally born of a virgin, 
lived a perfect life, and then 

560
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,840
dies on the literal Roman cross.
Defeat sin and death through 

561
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,320
death itself. 
Rises from the grave on the 

562
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,440
third day, and then just to 
prove it, hangs out with the 

563
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:35,160
homies for another 40 days after
that. 

564
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:37,920
And then literally a sense to 
the right hand of the Father, 

565
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:39,920
which is where he rules and 
reigns right now. 

566
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:41,840
Yeah. 
What part of that is not cosmic?

567
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:43,440
Nothing. 
OK, nothing. 

568
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:48,000
So if the crux yeah of the 
gospel. 

569
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,320
Yeah, it's all supernatural. 
It's all the cosmic Christ, 

570
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:53,680
right? 
Why would we want to de 

571
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:57,120
mythologize or strip the cosmic 
nature out of the rest of the 

572
00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:58,680
scriptures? 
Because we want a God we can 

573
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:00,400
manage. 
Man, we want. 

574
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,640
Because we like religion more 
than we like anything. 

575
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:05,760
That's a mystery. 
I know this is a little side 

576
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,440
tangent, but I'm doing a lot of 
stuff on college campuses these 

577
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,800
days. 
And I end up in at a campus 

578
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:15,640
called Texas A&M University, 
kind of a large campus. 

579
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:17,880
And there's a ministry there 
called Breakaway. 

580
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,720
And my dear friends Brian 
McCormick and Emily McCormick 

581
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,560
lead the ministry there. 
And one of the things that I 

582
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:28,240
have noticed my multiple times 
on campus, I used to say my fear

583
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:32,080
was that one day people would 
not know the name of Jesus. 

584
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:33,720
That's not my fear anymore, 
Lisa. 

585
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:37,000
My fear today is not that they 
won't know the name of Jesus. 

586
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,000
My fear is what Jesus will they 
know. 

587
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,440
You see, we're trying to make 
Jesus in our own image. 

588
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:45,680
John did this whole thing called
knock off Jesus where it's like 

589
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,680
Jesus in our own image. 
Make remaking God in our own 

590
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:51,680
image a manageable DoD. 
It is a perversion of 

591
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:53,760
sanctification. 
Absolutely. 

592
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,920
If sanctification is my aim and 
ambition is Christ, my aim is 

593
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:58,920
Jesus. 
My ambition is to become like, 

594
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,080
like Jesus, don't know what I'm 
aiming after, right? 

595
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:03,160
We now want to make Jesus an 
art. 

596
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:06,400
This is the, the core of, of 
deconstruction, right? 

597
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:08,920
And So what I think a lot of the
deconstruction movement and 

598
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,800
actually all deals with 
spiritual warfare is the 

599
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:14,920
deconstruction movement. 
Ultimately, they say they love, 

600
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,200
to quote this verse, that God is
love, right? 

601
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:20,360
But what they actually are 
saying is not God is love. 

602
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:22,400
They're saying love is God. 
Exactly. 

603
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:26,200
Because when you say God is 
love, theologically, love is 

604
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,320
self-contained in the character 
and attributes of who God is. 

605
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:31,240
There's. 
No, there's no outside of it. 

606
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:35,200
Exactly right. 
But if we say love is God, it 

607
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:37,280
now becomes subjective. 
Exactly. 

608
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,120
Do you know I wrote on this? 
No, I my book adamant the whole 

609
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,920
thing was that God. 
It's not that our culture has 

610
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,720
made love God instead of God 
being love. 

611
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:48,760
Yeah. 
And it flips everything. 

612
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:51,480
Yeah. 
Because when you Make Love God, 

613
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:55,160
then whatever you decide love is
is your God. 

614
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:57,880
And so it becomes a universe of 
opinions. 

615
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:01,120
You look, I, you know it again, 
there's absolutely no grounding.

616
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:05,280
But, but I, I, I don't want to, 
I don't want to sidetrack this. 

617
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:08,600
This is so important. 
What we model, our children 

618
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,480
learn, even how we navigate 
tough times. 

619
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:15,840
If you are looking for resources
to help in teaching tough 

620
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621
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622
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623
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624
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625
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626
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627
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You guys know you don't have to 

628
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629
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:54,320
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630
00:33:54,320 --> 00:34:01,320
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My grandson loves reading these 

631
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:04,720
books with his dad. 
And I'm going to tell you one of

632
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:09,040
the most key things you can do 
as a parent is read with your 

633
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:10,320
children. 
You know, and what you're 

634
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:16,159
saying, even with everything 
about what Jesus did for us is 

635
00:34:16,159 --> 00:34:19,080
supernatural. 
And I even I got in trouble 

636
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:23,360
recently because I said that 
that he became like us. 

637
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:27,320
He emptied himself of his divine
privileges and took on flesh, 

638
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:31,440
which thinking about that so 
that we, he became like us so we

639
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,159
could become like him. 
And people get mad, they're like

640
00:34:34,159 --> 00:34:35,639
he. 
No, he always was the Son of 

641
00:34:35,639 --> 00:34:37,120
God. 
He says always the Son of God, 

642
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:39,840
but he was the Son of man. 
And and that's the thing they 

643
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:44,280
don't understand. 
He willingly right, Self rejects

644
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:48,239
and self refuses to enact. 
Privileges where he always says,

645
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:50,880
I could call, I could call for 
1000 angels right now. 

646
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:55,840
But he always, you always know 
that he has an awareness of what

647
00:34:55,840 --> 00:35:00,720
his divine privileges are, but 
he lays all that down so that we

648
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:02,840
can gain an inheritance in 
Christ. 

649
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:06,320
It's just, it's fascinating to 
me, but people, people even have

650
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:10,880
a hard time believing that God 
can actually do that, like be 

651
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:14,680
contained. 
And you know, again, if, if we 

652
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:18,520
can't, if he can't do that, then
we can't, we cannot now be the 

653
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,320
children of God. 
Well, and now juxtapose that 

654
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:23,160
Jesus is the faithful Son of 
God. 

655
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:26,160
He's the greater Adam. 
He's the one who actually lives 

656
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:29,000
the faithful life of Israel that
Israel was never able to live. 

657
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:32,880
But now we go back to Genesis 6 
and you've got these sons of God

658
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:35,840
that are not faithful to the 
ways of God. 

659
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:37,320
No, they're perverse to it. 
They're. 

660
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:41,360
Perverse to it. 
So in Genesis 6, I don't read 

661
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:43,920
this as human rulers, and here's
why. 

662
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:44,640
Yeah. 
I don't either. 

663
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:49,400
Sons of God, as a phrase Ben 
Elohim is never throughout the 

664
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:53,000
Bible used in connection with 
the godly line of Seth. 

665
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,480
That is a idea that's imported 
into the text, right? 

666
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:01,280
The second issue here is the 
daughters of man are never 

667
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:05,120
explicitly stated as the 
daughters of the line of Cain. 

668
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:08,440
What people are trying to say? 
Yeah, because they would say, 

669
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:13,120
yeah, they would say that it's 
the godly line of Seth that goes

670
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:17,640
into sin because they marry the 
ungodly line of Cain and his 

671
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:19,280
daughter. 
Yes. 

672
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,560
And so, and now you're going to 
watch how the incoherence even 

673
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:25,000
magnifies because then it's 
like, wait a minute, you have 

674
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:28,920
the God line of Seth, but 
they're going to sin because 

675
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:34,160
they marry the ungodly line of 
women, the daughters of Cain. 

676
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:36,120
But the Texas doesn't say that, 
but OK. 

677
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:38,920
But then they produce the 
nepheline, these giants. 

678
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:43,920
How does a regular human and a 
regular human come together to 

679
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,520
produce giants? 
It's incoherent. 

680
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:50,120
They can't, right? 
It's it's theological gymnastics

681
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:51,800
in order to kind of rationalize 
this. 

682
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:53,680
Now I'm saying this, I want to 
be careful. 

683
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:57,240
I'm saying this kind of it's 
going to come off aggressive. 

684
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:00,680
I understand why people have the
theological position that they 

685
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,080
do. 
I would just try to humbly say 

686
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:06,040
like I'm so unconvinced of of it
for all of those reasons. 

687
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:10,000
You know, there's also 
grammatical issues with the 

688
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:13,000
Hebrew phrase Adam and humanity 
used in the first line. 

689
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:17,400
In the second line, you can't 
Willy nilly pick and choose how 

690
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:21,360
in the first line it's talking 
about the godly line of Seth as 

691
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:24,200
a as a whole, but in the second 
line it's talking about the 

692
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:26,760
Sethite daughter or the 
Canaanite daughter. 

693
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:30,480
Like it just it doesn't work. 
So the the most coherent, this 

694
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:32,080
is just like a hermeneutical 
method, right? 

695
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:37,440
We interpret the obscure 
passages based off of what is 

696
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:39,880
clear. 
OK, remember we started with 

697
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:41,680
job. 
Yeah, job one and two. 

698
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:44,520
Very clear, very clear. 
Sons of Elohim. 

699
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:49,480
So if we just take the clear 
reading of the Scriptures and 

700
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:53,160
and now in the obscure area say,
yeah, it's the angels of God, 

701
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:55,000
the sons of God as angelic 
beings. 

702
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:58,120
Now it makes sense. 
There's something else that's 

703
00:37:58,120 --> 00:37:59,920
going on. 
And this is the book of Enoch. 

704
00:37:59,920 --> 00:38:02,240
And you know, we can spend as 
much time on this as you want. 

705
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,640
I want to be clear when I talk 
about Enoch and the Enoch 

706
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:09,000
tradition, Enoch, the Book of 
Enoch is actually split up, 

707
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:11,160
split up into three different 
books. 

708
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:17,720
In terms of scholarship, Book 1 
is the most helpful and reliable

709
00:38:17,720 --> 00:38:20,560
in in a way, books two and three
are pretty wild. 

710
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:22,120
Like, there's a lot of stuff, 
right? 

711
00:38:22,240 --> 00:38:23,680
You do not read those before you
go to bed. 

712
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:24,600
Right. 
No, no, no. 

713
00:38:25,240 --> 00:38:27,240
And and this is kind of, and 
there's some dating issues with 

714
00:38:27,240 --> 00:38:30,840
the second-half of the book of 
Enoch, but the the first book is

715
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:35,640
this story about these watchers,
the sons of God. 

716
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:39,760
And it happens on an unholy 
mountain, Mount Hermon, which is

717
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:44,240
very fascinating because Eden in
Genesis 3 is ane mountain. 

718
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:46,840
So what? 
The Greek gods are on a 

719
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:48,760
mountain, The Roman gods are on 
a mountain. 

720
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:50,560
The Aztec gods, I mean, like 
all. 

721
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:54,480
Egyptians have no mountain, so 
they build pyramids so that 

722
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:56,640
their deities can. 
Exactly. 

723
00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:57,960
There's nothing new underneath 
the sun. 

724
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:02,240
Here's another side note. 
The Bible is the one true story.

725
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:07,880
What did they say? 
The best form of flattery is 

726
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:09,720
imitation or something like 
that. 

727
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:14,640
Like all these other ancient 
mythologies are plagiarizing the

728
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:18,040
one true story. 
So the Bible is actually, in 

729
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:21,160
particularly Genesis, it's a 
polemic. 

730
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:26,320
It's an argument against the 
competing myths of the time 

731
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,400
period of saying, hey, you're 
actually leading people astray. 

732
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:32,000
You've got fractions of it, 
little pieces of it that are 

733
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:35,360
true, but it's actually false. 
So let's give us the true story 

734
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:38,280
in Genesis 6 one through 4, why 
this is so important. 

735
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:41,280
And actually, I make the 
argument in my book The Unseen 

736
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:45,360
Battle, that this is actually 
the origin story of human sex 

737
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:46,320
trafficking. 
Yeah. 

738
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:49,680
And the reason why I make that 
argument is the phrase the 

739
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:51,960
watchers, which by the way is a 
biblical phrase. 

740
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:56,080
If you look at Daniel chapter 4 
and verse 23, you get a vision 

741
00:39:56,080 --> 00:40:01,160
of the king who it says this, 
the king saw a watcher, a holy 1

742
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:04,080
coming down from heaven and 
saying cut down the trees and it

743
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:06,720
goes on and on. 
So this isn't a term that is 

744
00:40:06,720 --> 00:40:10,160
just off. 
Yeah, no, no, it actually has 

745
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:11,800
it's roots in the book of 
Daniel. 

746
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,480
So, which lets us know that the 
biblical authors. 

747
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:17,560
They understand that something 
is happening here, You know that

748
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:22,280
they're that they're terms and 
languages that are common to the

749
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:25,880
people of the time. 
And so in the Book of Enoch, 

750
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:31,080
what we actually get is the back
story of what's happening in 

751
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:33,440
Genesis 6. 
Because it feels odd, Lisa. 

752
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:35,840
It's like why? 
Just jumps to the side and then 

753
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:37,440
there's under, under the flood, 
right? 

754
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:39,960
OK, I'm gonna let's do a little 
little example could go badly 

755
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:44,760
but let's see if it works okay? 
Okay okay Lisa who's the goat MJ

756
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,560
or LeBron? 
MJ Okay. 

757
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:50,320
But when I say MJ. 
Who's MJ? 

758
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:52,360
Michael Jordan. 
But how did you? 

759
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:53,360
Know that I wasn't talking 
about. 

760
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:56,680
Michael Jackson because you 
compare them to. 

761
00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:01,440
Sports OK if you had said a 
musician then I would have given

762
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:05,560
you another option but you did 2
sports figures OK and how do you

763
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:06,520
when I say. 
Goat. 

764
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:08,200
What am I talking about? 
You're talking about the 

765
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:11,160
greatest of all time and how? 
Did you again know that I meant?

766
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:13,320
The greatest of all time an 
acronym and not a fur animal 

767
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:18,360
because I knew in. 
Context to sports that you were 

768
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:22,560
referring to somebody that was 
the best the and the first I 

769
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,280
would say, yeah, if this was a 
class, you got an A+. 

770
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,880
I just want to let you know, OK,
listen, we do this all the time.

771
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:34,200
We are contextualizing and 
interpreting the context 100,000

772
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:37,200
miles an hour because we live in
that context. 

773
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:40,640
The biblical author, we believe 
Moses wrote the book of Genesis,

774
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:44,160
the first five books of the Old 
Testament, doesn't feel the need

775
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:48,480
to tell a story that was already
in the minds of the ancient 

776
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,400
readers of the time, right? 
The second, he says, sons of 

777
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:55,160
God, daughters of man and 
Nephilim, everybody's gone. 

778
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:56,200
I feel like I have to explain 
it. 

779
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:57,800
They're like they all. 
Know they all. 

780
00:41:57,920 --> 00:41:59,520
This is the story that was 
around. 

781
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:02,680
Now let me be very clear on what
I'm saying. 

782
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:07,480
The Bible, what we have, These 
66 books are Canon. 

783
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:11,680
They're inspired, they're holy, 
they're guided by God, 40 plus 

784
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:16,080
human authors, over 3 languages,
3 consonants, 2000 years. 

785
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:19,160
The Bible in itself is a 
miraculous story, right? 

786
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:21,320
OK. 
The Book of Enoch and other 

787
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:23,320
second temple literature are not
Canon. 

788
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:26,680
My books are not Canon. 
But they can still help people, 

789
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:29,880
but they can still help and. 
This is kind of like my 

790
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:33,120
question. 
If you have access to the 

791
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:36,760
literature that the biblical 
authors themselves had that they

792
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:40,600
refer to and that helped create 
their kind of worldview. 

793
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:44,000
If we want to be good students 
of the Bible, I figured if they 

794
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:46,360
were quoting the book of. 
Enoch in the New Testament. 

795
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:48,240
I should read it. 
That's right, Judith and Peter 

796
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:50,640
both refer. 
Back to it and in fact, give us 

797
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:53,320
every indication that they're 
not just talking about Genesis 

798
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:55,320
6, but actually the Book of 
Enoch as well. 

799
00:42:55,720 --> 00:42:59,720
And so in this, the reason why I
want to bring up Enoch is in 

800
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:03,600
Enoch in that first book, it 
tells us that the watchers, 

801
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:07,000
which is the phrase that they 
use for the sons of God, they go

802
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:10,920
into an alliance with the human 
fathers of these daughters. 

803
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:17,960
So the, so the father's 
humanity, they get lessons on 

804
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:22,600
how to read the stars, how to 
cut plants, how to do 

805
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:27,360
divination, incantations, 
amulets and charms. 

806
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:29,680
Exactly. 
And then here's another 

807
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:33,440
fascinating 1 metallurgy. 
Yep, specifically to make 

808
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:35,960
swords. 
You see, all those other things 

809
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:38,320
are kind of fascinating, Lisa, 
because like the cutting of 

810
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:40,920
plants, You just addressed it. 
The cutting of plants is 

811
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:44,000
actually a neutral thing because
in one sense you can do the 

812
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:46,400
cutting of plants for holistic 
healing, right? 

813
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:50,480
But in another sense, you can 
use it to help induce abortions 

814
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:56,360
or to create DMT hallucinative 
episodes to encounter the spirit

815
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:57,720
realm, right? 
And it can. 

816
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:01,920
Now swords have a singular 
purpose to kill. 

817
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:06,120
So it's like, wait, how did such
evil spread throughout the world

818
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:10,120
that a flood was necessary? 
The Enocha tradition gives us 

819
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:12,720
the background for it. 
And not only that, this is where

820
00:44:12,720 --> 00:44:15,160
I come back to that idea of 
human sex trafficking. 

821
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:20,920
The there's very specific terms 
that the Hebrew language has for

822
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:25,600
instances of rape, right? 
That's actually absent in the 

823
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:30,400
Genesis 6 structure here. 
But it is forceful and it is 

824
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:32,960
abuse. 
So the question is, what is 

825
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:36,840
actually happening? 
These fathers of these daughters

826
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:41,880
make the decision to sell their 
daughters to these angelic 

827
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:46,320
beings in an exchange for goods.
Wow, sex trafficking. 

828
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:49,000
Wow, they're trafficking their. 
Own. 

829
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:50,840
Children. 
So this is nothing new. 

830
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:53,640
This is nothing. 
New This is an abhorrence. 

831
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:57,600
To God and what happens with 
these angelic figures is it is a

832
00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:04,280
transgression of domains. 
You see, angels were never given

833
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:07,800
the responsibility or the 
vocation to multiply their own 

834
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:11,000
image, right? 
There's no sense of progeny that

835
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:14,560
was given to them, and yet it 
was given to humanity. 

836
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:22,400
And in this narcissistic, 
rebellious jealousy, they want, 

837
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:27,000
they see, they desire, there's 
the repeat and they take. 

838
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:29,200
Yes, exactly. 
That's the third rebellion, the 

839
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:31,040
pattern. 
Wow, wow. 

840
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:34,800
I mean, we've just hit so many 
different things and and you 

841
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:37,040
know, that was the one thing 
when people always like, I don't

842
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:39,520
see abortion in the Bible. 
I'm like, it's in the book of 

843
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:41,680
Enoch, Like it's, it's 
definitely in there. 

844
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:46,760
And it's it's a shocking to me 
that we see both our beginning, 

845
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:50,200
our Genesis sword and 
revelation. 

846
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:53,840
Jesus comes back with A2 edged 
sword coming out of his mouth. 

847
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:59,000
So we are, we have bookends of 
this type of violence and and 

848
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:02,840
people don't they don't see it. 
And this unseen battle is 

849
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:07,000
something that we're actually 
we're interacting with it on the

850
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:12,080
shadow, I mean, on the natural 
realm, but our authority is in 

851
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:15,120
the deeper realm. 
So let's say somebody they're 

852
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:16,720
they're sitting at home and 
they're listening and they're 

853
00:46:16,720 --> 00:46:18,480
like, wait, OK, my mind is 
blown. 

854
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:22,080
I just now realized it's not 
Seth's children. 

855
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:23,400
I don't, I mean, they're sitting
home. 

856
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:25,800
They're like, wait. 
Because I even wondered when it 

857
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:28,280
says the God most high, well, 
who's the higher then? 

858
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:30,560
Exactly? 
Wait, is there like, what is 

859
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:32,640
that? 
You know, God, the God most 

860
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:36,240
high, you know, And again, and I
when I travel and speak, I 

861
00:46:36,240 --> 00:46:39,040
always tell people that God 
doesn't have an opposite. 

862
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:42,000
He doesn't have an equal. 
There's no God that stands toe 

863
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,040
to toe with him. 
And they said the opposite of 

864
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:48,480
Satan is not God. 
It's Michael, you know, and 

865
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:49,880
Michael is the one who is like 
God. 

866
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:53,120
I mean, so it's very, you see 
that in Daniel 89 and 10, yes. 

867
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:57,160
Yeah, yes, but I do. 
Think that we've closed our eyes

868
00:46:57,160 --> 00:46:59,480
to things that need to be open 
now. 

869
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:01,640
Yeah. 
And you know, so I want to thank

870
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:04,280
you for that. 
And, and one of the, one of the 

871
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:09,600
ideas is and something I, I love
that you, you're setting the 

872
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:15,000
groundwork for is #1 the highest
form of government is family. 

873
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:17,280
That's right. 
And and that is what? 

874
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:20,520
God's trying. 
To actually bring back together.

875
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:23,440
Can you talk about why this is 
crucial? 

876
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:28,360
Yeah, 1. 
The thesis of the book really is

877
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:32,000
that God is a good father and as
a good father he wants to have 

878
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:36,080
his family back together. 
And in the Old Testament, the 

879
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:41,200
Hebrew phrase bait, or the word 
bait is the word that's used for

880
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:43,840
household. 
Something very fascinating is 

881
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:46,640
that Paul is a good Jewish boy, 
right? 

882
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:51,800
And he understands and is well 
aware of the story of Scripture 

883
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:54,200
and particularly the Hebrew 
Bible. 

884
00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:58,600
And he uses a Greek term called,
which is household as well. 

885
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:03,440
Both beeth in Hebrew and oikos 
in Greek have the same range of 

886
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:05,480
meaning. 
Three primary categories. 

887
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:10,200
This is so fascinating. 
One household has in mind the 

888
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:13,440
temple. 
There's a priestly role to the 

889
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:19,440
household #2 it's kingly. 
There's a kingly and kingship 

890
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:21,200
role that comes with the 
household. 

891
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:26,880
And #3 it's nuclear. 
It's moms and dads and brothers 

892
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:30,280
and sisters. 
There's there's genetic ties 

893
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:36,040
that take place together. 
When you turn to Ephesians, and 

894
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:41,480
this is kind of where I take the
book, particularly in the New 

895
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:46,120
Testament, you go to Ephesians 
chapter 3 and in Ephesians 

896
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:49,520
chapter 3, it says this in verse
5. 

897
00:48:49,720 --> 00:48:53,000
This was not made known to 
people in other generations as 

898
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:56,560
it is now revealed to his holy 
apostles and prophets by the 

899
00:48:56,560 --> 00:49:00,080
Spirit. 
The Gentiles are Co heirs. 

900
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:04,760
Look at this, members of the 
same body and partners in the 

901
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:07,960
promise in Christ just through 
the gospel. 

902
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:14,120
And then in verse 10 it says 
this, that this is so that God's

903
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:17,680
multifaceted wisdom. 
The Greek word therefore 

904
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:22,000
multifaceted is polypoculus, and
it's the exact same word that's 

905
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:25,040
used in the Septuagint, the 
Hebrew Bible translated into 

906
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:27,640
Greek of Joseph's coat of many 
colors. 

907
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:30,800
Wow. 
And it was foreshadowed exactly.

908
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:32,120
Beautiful. 
These are little. 

909
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:35,240
Seeds that are being planted. 
This is the Abrahamic covenant, 

910
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:41,480
Genesis 12/15/17 and 22 that out
of one family, all the nations 

911
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:44,240
of the world would be blessed. 
But look at this, Lisa. 

912
00:49:44,240 --> 00:49:47,560
It says this. 
This is so that God's 

913
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:53,200
multifaceted wisdom may now be 
made known through the church to

914
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:56,400
the rulers and the authorities 
in heaven. 

915
00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:01,320
So this reality that just shows 
that we're not dealing. 

916
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:04,440
With people on Earth, Exactly, 
exactly they're in. 

917
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:06,040
Heaven and actually. 
Earlier in Ephesians. 

918
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:08,280
One, it talks about powers and 
principalities being placed 

919
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:10,600
under the feet of the 
resurrected, ascended Christ. 

920
00:50:10,720 --> 00:50:13,960
And then Ephesians 218 through 
22 says that you and I are no 

921
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:16,720
longer foreigners and soldiers 
and strangers. 

922
00:50:16,720 --> 00:50:22,200
We've now come together to be 
citizens and Saints and members,

923
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:24,400
family members of the household 
of God. 

924
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:28,040
And it's this temple that's 
growing together with Christ as 

925
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:30,480
the cornerstone. 
A fascinating detail about that 

926
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:34,760
temple construction is that the 
Greek tensing of the temple is 

927
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:38,600
of a temple in construction not 
completed being built. 

928
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:42,800
It's being built up. 
In Christ, which means today. 

929
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:47,640
When people come to know Jesus 
from the nations of the world, 

930
00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:51,160
regardless of your ethnic, socio
economic, cultural, 

931
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:56,480
generational, when a life, a 
soul comes to know Jesus, 

932
00:50:56,680 --> 00:50:59,680
there's another building block 
on this temple that we are now 

933
00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:02,800
individually a temple, but we 
come together to form the one 

934
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:05,960
temple of God. 
And why this is so important in 

935
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:10,240
spiritual warfare and from a 
pragmatic standpoint is every 

936
00:51:10,240 --> 00:51:13,400
time this happens, it's a 
telltale sign to the rulers and 

937
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:16,480
powers and authorities that they
have lost. 

938
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:18,440
Yes. 
And OK, so. 

939
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:23,240
Going going off of what you just
said that gives us a window into

940
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:27,680
what is man that you are mindful
of him because he says you made 

941
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:31,120
him a little bit less than the 
angels, the angels and so. 

942
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:33,520
Now. 
We see that the sons of God, 

943
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:36,960
like, wait a minute, what what 
are you doing with them? 

944
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:41,160
Like what is that? 
Okay, so now we're living in 

945
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:43,360
this world where the number one 
thing is division. 

946
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:47,040
I mean, there's we could bring 
up what was divisive last 

947
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:50,240
weekend, but there'll be 
multiple things before this ever

948
00:51:50,240 --> 00:51:55,080
hits the air. 
What is are, I mean, number one,

949
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:57,360
we know divided houses fall. 
Yes. 

950
00:51:57,520 --> 00:51:58,840
I mean, this is just simple. 
Yeah. 

951
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:00,480
And Satan's not divided. 
Yeah. 

952
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:03,480
He's very united. 
We're talking to a body right 

953
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:09,160
now that is divided, politically
divided, whether it's, you know,

954
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:14,000
male or female divided, 
theologically divided, you know,

955
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:17,480
all these different areas, just 
division, division, division, 

956
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:20,000
parents being cut off by their 
children, children cutting off 

957
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:21,720
their parent. 
You know, we just all of this 

958
00:52:21,720 --> 00:52:25,160
division. 
So what what is the beginning? 

959
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:27,640
And again, we've seen the. 
I love that you brought this up 

960
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:31,320
because even like we go through 
all of the different relational 

961
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:36,160
dynamics and then Ephesians 6 
says finally, like, OK, we've be

962
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:37,880
strong, be strong in the Lord 
and. 

963
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:40,480
In the power of his might. 
His might not our life. 

964
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:43,840
Not, not. 
Our traditions, not in our and 

965
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:46,040
then he goes through the whole 
thing. 

966
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:49,760
And most Christians, they have 
the helmet of salvation. 

967
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:54,680
And if they're Bible reading, 
they have a sword, but that's 

968
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:56,640
about it. 
They have a helmet on and 

969
00:52:56,640 --> 00:52:59,960
they're naked with the sword and
they are not understanding 

970
00:52:59,960 --> 00:53:02,640
what's going on. 
And I I try to say to every, if 

971
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:05,320
you can name them, they're not 
who you're wrestling. 

972
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:09,680
You're wrestling with something 
way more powerful, more cosmic. 

973
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:13,840
But rather than feeling 
overwhelmed by that revelation, 

974
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:15,480
how should people respond to 
that? 

975
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:17,960
Yeah. 
So I I wrote The Unseen Battle. 

976
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:22,080
Very intentionally because I 
wanted to give 22 ideas. 

977
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:27,480
One is posture and perspective. 
And so our posture when we, when

978
00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:31,200
we come to this conversation is 
a posture of humble confidence. 

979
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:33,400
And it's like, how do we return 
to unity? 

980
00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:38,280
Here's how we return to unity. 
It starts with Jesus, it runs 

981
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:41,200
through Jesus, and it ends with 
Jesus. 

982
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:45,480
When we become selfish, when we 
want our own agendas, our own 

983
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:47,400
perspectives, our own human 
wisdom. 

984
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:50,160
James talks about this as the 
wisdom from below, which is 

985
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:53,000
demonic, which is the wisdom 
from above, which is heavenly. 

986
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:56,800
Like when we exchange the wisdom
of God for our own ways and our 

987
00:53:56,800 --> 00:54:01,000
own manners, our own religious 
tenacities and tendencies that 

988
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:04,200
we're going to cause havoc in 
the world, in ourselves and our 

989
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:06,280
families, and in our society, 
society that we're a part of. 

990
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:09,840
And so the path is so simple, 
but it's far from being 

991
00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:12,240
simplistic. 
It is a return to Jesus. 

992
00:54:12,240 --> 00:54:15,400
This is why in Ephesians chapter
6, the belt of truth is so 

993
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:18,400
vitally important. 
The entire thing hangs around 

994
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:21,000
what is true. 
And by the way, we live in a 

995
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:23,640
world that suggests that truth 
is no longer objective. 

996
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:25,600
No, it's subjective to them. 
It's their feelings. 

997
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:29,640
Right, but that's not the case. 
There is actually a moral 

998
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:32,720
compass that God has embedded in
this is CS Lewis that God has 

999
00:54:32,720 --> 00:54:34,760
embedded into the heart of 
humanity. 

1000
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:39,280
And the scariest thing for me 
today, Lisa, is I feel like like

1001
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:43,000
the the prophetic vision for me 
has always been that we are as a

1002
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:48,480
Society of frog in the perpetual
water right and and the burner 

1003
00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:51,880
is just an enemy and we have 
become desensitized to this 

1004
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:54,920
reality. 
So how do we regain vision? 

1005
00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:58,400
Well, it's humble confidence and
humility. 

1006
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:03,880
We recognize that we live in and
are sustained by the power and 

1007
00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:05,760
the presence and the authority 
of Jesus. 

1008
00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:08,240
And so we want to go. 
This is Galatians chapter 5. 

1009
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:10,160
We want to go where the Spirit 
leads us. 

1010
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:12,360
We want to be in step with the 
Spirit. 

1011
00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:15,360
We want to be led by the Spirit.
And wherever the Spirit does not

1012
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:18,600
go, we ought not to go. 
I think so many people feel like

1013
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:21,840
they. 
Are not even like all of those 

1014
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:24,440
100%. 
They don't know how to get back 

1015
00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:27,200
into the spirit. 
They've been led by emotions, 

1016
00:55:27,240 --> 00:55:29,840
yes. 
They've been led by algorithms. 

1017
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:33,200
They've been led by offense. 
They've been led by attempt. 

1018
00:55:33,720 --> 00:55:35,400
Ohh, my gosh, contempt. 
What? 

1019
00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:36,760
What? 
Yes, it's. 

1020
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:40,320
It's I feel like everybody is 
just been taken emotional 

1021
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:45,200
hostage on every single level. 
How do we get to the place where

1022
00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:49,200
we can humble ourselves, you 
know, submit to God and resist 

1023
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:51,280
the devil? 
How do we get back into that 

1024
00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:56,120
spiritual alignment without 
having to to do the January fast

1025
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:57,360
every other day? 
Like what? 

1026
00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:00,400
What what is that first step? 
Yeah. 

1027
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:03,200
I mean, I think one it's. 
Again, goes back to Jesus. 

1028
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:05,200
We got to know who Jesus is. 
We got to know the word. 

1029
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:07,920
But there's something very 
pragmatic and practical that we 

1030
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:10,120
live in a world that wants to 
connect us from each other. 

1031
00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:13,960
Yes, right. 
And so people's courage to 

1032
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:19,200
comment wild things on Instagram
and Facebook is now getting to 

1033
00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:21,400
places of ridiculousness. 
Yes. 

1034
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:27,160
You know, and what we need, 
Lisa, we need to return to that 

1035
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:31,560
axe to idea where all the 
believers have everything in 

1036
00:56:31,560 --> 00:56:36,280
common, the breaking of bread 
and the apostles discussing the.

1037
00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:39,440
Apostles doctrine yes the the 
commitment to the word of God 

1038
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:41,040
the. 
Breaking of bread to prayer 

1039
00:56:41,240 --> 00:56:44,600
right to giving to each other as
each other has need. 

1040
00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:49,440
If we only view each other 
through emoticons on a phone and

1041
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:53,160
and echo chambers of positions, 
well, I can dehumanize you. 

1042
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:57,520
I can be vitriolic against you 
and never have to look at you in

1043
00:56:57,520 --> 00:57:02,520
the face or walk in step with 
you and, and, and be faced with 

1044
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:05,880
my like, conviction of, of what 
I've done, whether it's right or

1045
00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:08,960
wrong, you know, And so we have 
to like go back to embodied 

1046
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:12,000
existence, you know, like what 
would happen? 

1047
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:16,240
This is kind of interesting. 
What would happen today if you 

1048
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:20,520
decided to unfollow everybody on
your social media that you don't

1049
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:21,920
have a personal relationship 
with? 

1050
00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:25,040
Well, that you don't see that 
you don't talk to. 

1051
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:27,160
Yeah. 
Well, first of all, my one. 

1052
00:57:27,160 --> 00:57:29,640
Concern with that is I would 
only get the information I 

1053
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:33,040
already think, Oh yeah, yeah. 
So I would, I would limit 

1054
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:37,840
exposure, but yeah, that would, 
that would limit who had voice 

1055
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:40,200
into my life. 
That would limit what what I was

1056
00:57:40,200 --> 00:57:42,880
hearing from other people. 
I would, I would. 

1057
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:45,480
My only push back to that is. 
Maybe that's an opportunity 

1058
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:48,760
then, because when you see that 
you go, wait a minute, how come 

1059
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:52,000
the only people that I'm I'm in 
relationship with are these 

1060
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:54,240
kinds of people, right? 
That's what I'm saying right. 

1061
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:56,200
So I. 
Would have to be like, oh, I 

1062
00:57:56,200 --> 00:58:00,120
just went into an echo chamber. 
Yes, so so I would have to and 

1063
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:01,320
you know, I love what you're 
saying. 

1064
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:06,160
I had AI had a very interesting 
experience that is just totally 

1065
00:58:06,160 --> 00:58:09,760
typifies what you're saying. 
I spoke at the think cultural 

1066
00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:13,680
summit years ago and afterwards,
one of the other speakers, this 

1067
00:58:14,160 --> 00:58:18,120
amazing, brilliant Belgian 
psychoanalyst debt, you know, 

1068
00:58:18,120 --> 00:58:22,720
statistician, data expert person
asked, can I go to lunch with 

1069
00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:25,080
you and your family? 
And I was like, are you going to

1070
00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:26,800
psychoanalyze us? 
Because we don't do that when 

1071
00:58:26,800 --> 00:58:27,720
we're eating. 
We're Italians. 

1072
00:58:27,760 --> 00:58:31,000
And he said, no, no, no, you 
know, I I want family is so 

1073
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:32,440
important. 
Family is so important. 

1074
00:58:32,920 --> 00:58:37,520
And he explained to us that in 
Belgium, he had come up with 

1075
00:58:37,520 --> 00:58:39,720
this idea. 
He'd run the numbers and he 

1076
00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:42,080
said, Hey, it's not good to put 
these people in isolation. 

1077
00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:45,320
It will not be healthy. 
It's not healthy for people to 

1078
00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:49,320
be in isolation, period. 
And not just not just for the 

1079
00:58:49,520 --> 00:58:54,600
pandemic reason, but for the the
whole community reason. 

1080
00:58:54,960 --> 00:58:58,120
And when he pushed back on that,
they destroyed him. 

1081
00:58:58,600 --> 00:59:02,920
And so he said, you know, your 
nation is in an interesting 

1082
00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:03,960
place. 
He said, I feel like I've 

1083
00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:07,120
already lost mine. 
And I said, OK, what do we do? 

1084
00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:11,560
And he said protest will 
actually justify 

1085
00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:16,800
totalitarianism, violence 
justify totalitarianism. 

1086
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:19,200
It's actually a setup to get 
that in play. 

1087
00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:21,080
And he said, I said, OK, So 
what? 

1088
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:23,720
What do we do? 
And he said, constant, 

1089
00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:30,720
courageous conversations. 
And I thought, yeah, all during 

1090
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:34,000
the pandemic, everybody's 
sitting on a phone. 

1091
00:59:34,560 --> 00:59:37,200
They're not sitting like you and
I are talking, you know, And 

1092
00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:39,560
when people are really mean to 
me, I do this. 

1093
00:59:39,560 --> 00:59:43,960
And my team might edit this, but
I just picture somebody mad at 

1094
00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:47,480
me typing back to me while 
they're sitting on the toilet. 

1095
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:51,480
I'm like, these are people that 
I do not know that are so mad 

1096
00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:53,840
they're misspelling words. 
I mean, like, they are so 

1097
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:59,000
reactionary right now. 
And again, I to have had, you 

1098
00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:02,160
know, some rough days on social 
media, maybe my own 'cause maybe

1099
01:00:02,160 --> 01:00:03,960
it's just a rough day for 
everybody. 

1100
01:00:04,240 --> 01:00:07,800
And every time I turn it down, I
look at my husband who loves me,

1101
01:00:08,360 --> 01:00:11,400
who I love, who's getting ready 
to kiss me goodnight and I say 

1102
01:00:11,720 --> 01:00:14,520
goodnight, pretend world. 
And I put it down with the 

1103
01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:17,040
people. 
If I have a disagreement with 

1104
01:00:17,040 --> 01:00:20,600
somebody that I know, I'm not 
going to ever do that with him 

1105
01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:22,800
on social media, I'm going to 
call him 100%. 

1106
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:25,280
And if I don't call them. 
It's because they don't care 

1107
01:00:25,280 --> 01:00:27,920
enough to actually build forward
with a relationship. 

1108
01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:29,840
That's right. 
And you know, sometimes it 

1109
01:00:29,840 --> 01:00:31,960
doesn't go well and sometimes it
does. 

1110
01:00:32,280 --> 01:00:36,840
And you know, what we're, what 
we're dealing with is people 

1111
01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:40,280
have lost their ability to have 
civil conversation. 

1112
01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:43,880
And we're Italians, which means 
we get loud, but we fight for 

1113
01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:47,520
unity. 
And I always want to be a fight 

1114
01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:51,000
for not just a fight. 
And I think what we've done is 

1115
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:54,760
we've just gotten to the fight 
and we, that enemy loves it. 

1116
01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:57,440
He's like, oh, good. 
They're dividing over this. 

1117
01:00:57,440 --> 01:00:59,440
They're dividing over that. 
They're dividing over this. 

1118
01:00:59,920 --> 01:01:02,680
Oh, they're, they're not, 
they're not even a they don't 

1119
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:05,360
even care about people being 
slaughtered in Iran. 

1120
01:01:05,520 --> 01:01:06,640
Like they don't even care about 
that. 

1121
01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:08,240
Like that's not even on their 
radar. 

1122
01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:12,120
Just keep them, keep them, keep 
them tied up with this or a 

1123
01:01:12,120 --> 01:01:15,600
fence with that, or jump on this
one thing or jump on that one 

1124
01:01:15,600 --> 01:01:20,320
thing or jump on each other. 
It's just, it's it is awful. 

1125
01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:23,320
Yeah. 
And and it's it's never going to

1126
01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:26,280
be a piece you can never win. 
You can never win those 

1127
01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:29,240
arguments. 
But the truth is, I love how you

1128
01:01:29,240 --> 01:01:32,480
talk about humility so much. 
There is something about owning 

1129
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:36,600
your mistakes if you've made 
one, but then also understanding

1130
01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:38,960
that's all you can do. 
Yeah. 

1131
01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:40,680
You know, the enemy. 
I think it's. 

1132
01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:44,800
Just this three-part movement of
deception, division and 

1133
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:49,320
destruction. 
And the antidote to that is we 

1134
01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:52,200
will not be a deceived people if
we're a people who live and know

1135
01:01:52,200 --> 01:01:54,720
the truth of God. 
You know, and we do need each 

1136
01:01:54,720 --> 01:01:57,040
other and we need and. 
Then and then how? 

1137
01:01:57,040 --> 01:02:00,360
Do we best know God's word? 
How do we best live this 

1138
01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:03,720
embodied in community with each 
other? 

1139
01:02:03,720 --> 01:02:06,400
Right. 
And then instead of destruction,

1140
01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:08,840
what you will notice is a 
flourishing. 

1141
01:02:09,640 --> 01:02:12,840
A flourishing not in spite of 
all the hard and hurtful and 

1142
01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:15,800
harmful in our world, but a 
flourishing in the midst of it, 

1143
01:02:16,040 --> 01:02:18,600
which will actually serve as a 
winsome witness to the world. 

1144
01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:21,680
I'm so struck by like in First 
Corinthians, I believe it's in 

1145
01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:25,400
chapter 2 it says if the powers 
and the rulers and authorities 

1146
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:27,280
it would never have crucified, 
it would have. 

1147
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:30,440
Never said Jesus to the cross. 
They thought the whole time that

1148
01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:34,280
they were sending the Messiah to
his death so that they could 

1149
01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:36,760
secure their victory. 
I actually think this is a 

1150
01:02:36,800 --> 01:02:39,360
reversal the story of Mordecai 
and Haman. 

1151
01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:42,560
You see, Haman thought he was 
going to win and he built the 

1152
01:02:42,560 --> 01:02:45,000
gallows and he thought I got 
Mordecai, I'm going to send him 

1153
01:02:45,000 --> 01:02:47,480
there. 
And in the end, Haman hangs in 

1154
01:02:47,480 --> 01:02:49,760
the very same gallows that he 
himself builds. 

1155
01:02:50,120 --> 01:02:52,280
And here are these rulers and 
powers and authorities are 

1156
01:02:52,280 --> 01:02:55,600
working through human systems 
and structures and, and, and 

1157
01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:58,120
they're leveraging, manipulate, 
and they're causing deception, 

1158
01:02:58,120 --> 01:03:00,920
division and destruction. 
And in so doing, they think we 

1159
01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:04,040
finally got the Messiah. 
We got him and they lead him to 

1160
01:03:04,040 --> 01:03:06,520
the cross. 
And all they end up doing is 

1161
01:03:06,520 --> 01:03:10,200
when Jesus hangs on the cross, 
they hung themselves because 

1162
01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:13,640
Jesus defeats sin and death. 
And so I just think that unless 

1163
01:03:13,640 --> 01:03:15,600
people don't even know that, 
like they don't. 

1164
01:03:15,600 --> 01:03:19,960
Even know like they don't know 
when Satan was displaced, you 

1165
01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:22,200
know, like I mean like they 
think he got kicked out in the 

1166
01:03:22,200 --> 01:03:24,520
book of Genesis. 
I mean, it's very it's very 

1167
01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:26,960
interesting. 
You know, I believe it was 

1168
01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:31,640
Archimedes that said if you give
me a lever, a lever large 

1169
01:03:31,640 --> 01:03:35,160
enough, I can move the earth. 
But see, the cross was that 

1170
01:03:35,160 --> 01:03:37,640
lever. 
And what he did is he he flipped

1171
01:03:37,720 --> 01:03:40,560
everything. 
And and what's so crazy is like 

1172
01:03:40,560 --> 01:03:44,240
it like we have the twofold, we 
have the Pharisees, and then we 

1173
01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:48,880
have the the demonic realm or 
the the Princess of the powers 

1174
01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:52,440
of the air. 
And what happens is for the 

1175
01:03:52,600 --> 01:03:54,800
Pharisees, they thought they 
were going to get the 

1176
01:03:54,800 --> 01:03:56,360
inheritance. 
They said, Oh, now we got that. 

1177
01:03:56,360 --> 01:03:57,920
We've got the air. 
This is the vineyard. 

1178
01:03:58,160 --> 01:04:01,680
It became the inheritance. 
And it's so interesting how God,

1179
01:04:02,040 --> 01:04:04,840
God always has this master plan.
I love how it talks about in 

1180
01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:07,760
Isaiah, he's, there's no God 
like our God who finishes 

1181
01:04:07,760 --> 01:04:11,880
something, then he begins it. 
And, and we are, we are this 

1182
01:04:12,120 --> 01:04:17,320
surety of who he is and his 
goodness in his goodness. 

1183
01:04:17,320 --> 01:04:24,040
And so I, I, I love that that 
you have written this book. 

1184
01:04:24,040 --> 01:04:26,640
How has it changed you 
personally? 

1185
01:04:27,240 --> 01:04:30,320
Oh man, I think. 
That for me personally, it's 

1186
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:37,800
helped me to see more clearly 
how subtle the enemy works in my

1187
01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:44,080
own life, you know, in places of
being ambition and can see, you 

1188
01:04:44,080 --> 01:04:47,200
know, if we're to be like, very 
honest with you, let me be like,

1189
01:04:47,480 --> 01:04:49,040
I would hope you're always 
honest with me. 

1190
01:04:49,040 --> 01:04:55,520
Yeah, How do I say this? 
The week that I launched the 

1191
01:04:55,520 --> 01:04:59,560
book, we found out that my dad 
was going to have triple bypass 

1192
01:05:00,280 --> 01:05:02,840
heart surgery. 
We had some things that are 

1193
01:05:02,840 --> 01:05:04,560
going on with our kids back 
home. 

1194
01:05:05,480 --> 01:05:07,480
You had a car wreck not too long
ago, my wife. 

1195
01:05:07,480 --> 01:05:08,920
Was in a in a car accident not 
too. 

1196
01:05:08,920 --> 01:05:12,200
Long, long before that with my 
son Levi in it. 

1197
01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:16,560
And then it was also the storm 
hit Charlotte. 

1198
01:05:16,560 --> 01:05:19,960
This was like the winter like, 
like we got 11 inches of snow 

1199
01:05:19,960 --> 01:05:21,040
with Charlotte. 
Never get snow. 

1200
01:05:21,040 --> 01:05:23,520
It's the first time in like 11 
years that that ever happened. 

1201
01:05:23,520 --> 01:05:25,280
I got stuck in the airports, 
right? 

1202
01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:29,040
And I have to be honest with 
you, there's a part I was with 

1203
01:05:29,040 --> 01:05:31,360
my buddy. 
I got stuck in Dallas because 

1204
01:05:31,360 --> 01:05:34,920
that's where my dad had heart 
surgery and I was with Pastor 

1205
01:05:34,920 --> 01:05:36,960
Matt Chandler. 
Matt and Lauren were there and 

1206
01:05:36,960 --> 01:05:40,880
dear friends and Matt, we hung 
out for a bit and had coffee 

1207
01:05:40,880 --> 01:05:42,640
together. 
And Matt hugged me. 

1208
01:05:42,640 --> 01:05:45,280
He goes, man, write a book on 
spiritual warfare, huh? 

1209
01:05:45,320 --> 01:05:48,200
You know, And I then you mean 
it. 

1210
01:05:48,480 --> 01:05:50,120
Yeah. 
I looked at Matt and I go. 

1211
01:05:51,040 --> 01:05:53,480
I kind of wish I didn't write 
this book, you know? 

1212
01:05:54,680 --> 01:05:56,640
And I. 
Do I joke about that? 

1213
01:05:56,640 --> 01:05:59,040
But. 
Then I'm also kind of like, wait

1214
01:05:59,040 --> 01:06:03,160
a minute, what part of my heart 
is actually living from a place 

1215
01:06:03,160 --> 01:06:05,080
of fear, not from a place of 
faith? 

1216
01:06:05,840 --> 01:06:09,680
What part of my life? 
When did I assume that? 

1217
01:06:09,960 --> 01:06:13,280
Because I do God's word and 
we're trying to cost personally.

1218
01:06:14,040 --> 01:06:15,600
Exactly. 
No, people. 

1219
01:06:15,600 --> 01:06:17,040
Used to ask me you need to 
write. 

1220
01:06:17,040 --> 01:06:21,680
On parenting, I said heck no, 
because my children will be 

1221
01:06:21,680 --> 01:06:23,720
attacked. 
I said don't attack. 

1222
01:06:24,080 --> 01:06:28,280
I said it there is whatever area
you take ground on it is the 

1223
01:06:28,320 --> 01:06:32,120
enemy will not just release it 
uncontested, he will. 

1224
01:06:32,280 --> 01:06:33,760
He will push back on it. 
Yeah. 

1225
01:06:33,840 --> 01:06:35,560
And I would say that it has 
drawn me to prayer. 

1226
01:06:35,680 --> 01:06:40,280
In ways that I have never, you 
know, I'm a Bible nerd through 

1227
01:06:40,280 --> 01:06:42,080
and through. 
Lisa I, I love studying 

1228
01:06:42,080 --> 01:06:43,880
scripture. 
I'm a Greek and Hebrew nerd, 

1229
01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:46,360
like all of that kind of stuff. 
I I would commentaries from. 

1230
01:06:46,360 --> 01:06:47,600
I envy. 
I envy you. 

1231
01:06:47,600 --> 01:06:49,320
Yeah, it's just. 
My wife's so annoyed with me 

1232
01:06:49,320 --> 01:06:50,840
sometimes. 
She's like, I'm reading the 

1233
01:06:50,840 --> 01:06:53,080
Odyssey right now. 
She's like, I was, you know, I'm

1234
01:06:53,080 --> 01:06:55,400
like, that's just what I do. 
I read Virgil recently. 

1235
01:06:55,400 --> 01:06:58,520
Yeah, yeah, it's. 
Like my husband's like why it's 

1236
01:06:58,640 --> 01:07:00,440
it's just it's fun for but. 
You know what? 

1237
01:07:00,440 --> 01:07:02,800
I've always suffered. 
I've I've always felt like a 

1238
01:07:02,800 --> 01:07:05,840
prayer failure, just like a 
prayer failure. 

1239
01:07:05,840 --> 01:07:10,440
Like I just, and then in this 
season, the Lord really opened 

1240
01:07:10,440 --> 01:07:11,680
up. 
This isn't Daniel chapter 10. 

1241
01:07:11,680 --> 01:07:15,960
I think it's 10 verse 12. 
Daniel goes to pray and he's and

1242
01:07:15,960 --> 01:07:18,880
then the Angel shows up and 
says, Daniel, because of your 

1243
01:07:18,880 --> 01:07:22,720
prayers, I've come to you. 
And so it has changed me 

1244
01:07:22,720 --> 01:07:25,840
personally because of my mom. 
My mom is a prayer warrior. 

1245
01:07:26,560 --> 01:07:29,760
I am who I am today because of 
the prayers of my mom and my 

1246
01:07:29,760 --> 01:07:32,280
grandmother, I-1000. 
I was telling my son yesterday. 

1247
01:07:32,280 --> 01:07:34,720
We were driving home from 
practice and had a real cool 

1248
01:07:34,720 --> 01:07:37,480
moment of conversation. 
And I just was like, we're 

1249
01:07:37,480 --> 01:07:38,440
going, he's going through some 
stuff. 

1250
01:07:38,440 --> 01:07:41,520
And I was just like, hey, you 
know, don't ever forget. 

1251
01:07:41,520 --> 01:07:44,040
Like, just call grandma. 
Like we call her Nanima is the 

1252
01:07:44,040 --> 01:07:45,440
fellow good name. 
Call Nanima. 

1253
01:07:45,440 --> 01:07:48,240
Like she's a prayer warrior. 
Like, if you need anything, son,

1254
01:07:48,240 --> 01:07:50,120
like you just considered a 
privilege to. 

1255
01:07:50,120 --> 01:07:51,960
Yeah. 
Yeah, and he was like, really? 

1256
01:07:51,960 --> 01:07:54,000
I'm like 100%. 
And then it was my opportunity 

1257
01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:57,320
to say, son, I am who I am today
because of the prayers of your 

1258
01:07:57,320 --> 01:08:00,280
Nanama and your nanny, your 
great grandma, you know. 

1259
01:08:01,000 --> 01:08:05,160
And so now here I am 40 years 
old and thinking, oh Lord, there

1260
01:08:05,160 --> 01:08:09,360
is an opportunity here for me to
see that prayer is not 

1261
01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:12,360
monologue. 
It's not me talking at God. 

1262
01:08:12,840 --> 01:08:14,640
Prayer is an invitation to 
dialogue. 

1263
01:08:15,160 --> 01:08:19,920
And I have to learn to tune my 
heart, to train my eyes, and to 

1264
01:08:19,920 --> 01:08:24,520
keep my ears open to the ways in
which God chooses to respond. 

1265
01:08:24,520 --> 01:08:26,640
That's beautiful, you know, And 
so that's been kind. 

1266
01:08:26,640 --> 01:08:29,560
Of my personal. 
Journey along the way is love 

1267
01:08:29,560 --> 01:08:32,160
the deep theology, but from a 
very pragmatic standpoint, 

1268
01:08:32,319 --> 01:08:37,880
there's a cost to this Lisa. 
The presence of the unified 

1269
01:08:37,880 --> 01:08:42,760
church, the multi ethnic, multi 
generational, socio economically

1270
01:08:42,920 --> 01:08:47,359
United Church, is a winsome 
witness to the powers of their 

1271
01:08:47,359 --> 01:08:50,240
defeat, which is why the enemy 
is attacking. 

1272
01:08:50,240 --> 01:08:53,240
That look at what? 
The enemy is attacking not just 

1273
01:08:53,240 --> 01:08:56,000
outside the church, Inside of 
the church. 

1274
01:08:56,000 --> 01:08:58,080
I know, I know, I know. 
And and so I. 

1275
01:08:58,080 --> 01:09:01,359
Just it's not. 
Lost on me that in the last six 

1276
01:09:01,359 --> 01:09:04,240
months to a year. 
These are the things that we're 

1277
01:09:04,479 --> 01:09:10,479
in Christians, believers, we 
have the most coherent answer to

1278
01:09:10,479 --> 01:09:14,200
the response to all of that and 
starts with Jesus and it ends 

1279
01:09:14,200 --> 01:09:16,760
with Jesus. 
But it requires self sacrifice 

1280
01:09:16,800 --> 01:09:20,120
on our part and humble 
confidence along the way to 

1281
01:09:20,120 --> 01:09:24,439
stand for what is true and right
and to seek repentance for those

1282
01:09:24,439 --> 01:09:27,080
things that we fall short from. 
Apart from those two things. 

1283
01:09:27,080 --> 01:09:29,080
It's going to be really 
difficult along the way. 

1284
01:09:29,240 --> 01:09:31,080
But it's interesting, you know, 
even with our. 

1285
01:09:31,720 --> 01:09:34,520
More current one. 
I think somebody was just, I, I 

1286
01:09:34,520 --> 01:09:37,240
watched this couple people just 
say model humility in this and 

1287
01:09:37,240 --> 01:09:39,600
they just said, you know, we're 
praying and they opened up with 

1288
01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:42,120
prayer and opened up with 
humility, their own humility. 

1289
01:09:42,760 --> 01:09:46,920
And I just wrote in the 
comments, I am praying with you 

1290
01:09:46,920 --> 01:09:50,279
and half the people are like, 
you're woke. 

1291
01:09:50,479 --> 01:09:53,760
Then half the people were like, 
you know, I mean, like people 

1292
01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:56,760
just, I mean, all I said was I'm
praying with you. 

1293
01:09:56,760 --> 01:10:01,480
I know I didn't say anything, 
you know, And it was like, whoa,

1294
01:10:01,800 --> 01:10:06,440
people are so angry right now. 
You know, going back to your 

1295
01:10:06,440 --> 01:10:08,400
Dana reference, there you go. 
Is another. 

1296
01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:11,120
The Prince of Persia resisted 
me. 

1297
01:10:11,120 --> 01:10:12,360
I feel like, again, you're like,
what? 

1298
01:10:12,480 --> 01:10:14,120
Wait, who's that? 
Who's this? 

1299
01:10:14,480 --> 01:10:16,840
Who's this ruling spirit over 
that realm? 

1300
01:10:16,960 --> 01:10:21,800
What was going on with that? 
And I mean, we see him right 

1301
01:10:21,800 --> 01:10:22,480
now. 
Yeah. 

1302
01:10:22,600 --> 01:10:24,320
This comes from, you know, and 
this is all in the. 

1303
01:10:24,320 --> 01:10:26,720
Book and then it's in battle, 
but it's it comes from 

1304
01:10:26,720 --> 01:10:29,760
Deuteronomy 32 eight and nine. 
We're in Deuteronomy 32 eight 

1305
01:10:29,760 --> 01:10:33,600
and nine says the sons of God 
were allotted to the nations of 

1306
01:10:33,600 --> 01:10:36,720
the world. 
Now when and it's and they were 

1307
01:10:36,720 --> 01:10:38,600
divided by the boundaries of 
their existence. 

1308
01:10:38,600 --> 01:10:42,440
So when did the nations get 
divided the tower of Babel it's 

1309
01:10:42,440 --> 01:10:43,840
when they got divided by 
language. 

1310
01:10:43,840 --> 01:10:47,480
So what we have in dear? 
Army 32. 89 I like to think 

1311
01:10:47,480 --> 01:10:51,240
about about it as the Marvel and
scene of a movie like, you know,

1312
01:10:51,520 --> 01:10:54,640
at the end of Iron Man. 
I remember when the Thor hammer 

1313
01:10:54,640 --> 01:10:57,400
popped up and everybody in the 
theater lost their minds. 

1314
01:10:57,400 --> 01:10:58,640
I mean, there's like the coolest
thing. 

1315
01:10:58,840 --> 01:11:01,600
Well, Dear Army, 3289 is kind of
like the end scene of a Marvel 

1316
01:11:01,600 --> 01:11:05,640
movie where you get a insight 
into the cosmic reality of 

1317
01:11:05,640 --> 01:11:09,480
what's taking place, where there
has to be consequence for sin. 

1318
01:11:09,480 --> 01:11:13,280
And the consequence for 
humanity's pride was the loss of

1319
01:11:13,280 --> 01:11:15,200
the one language. 
And they were separated out into

1320
01:11:15,200 --> 01:11:18,960
the languages, the lands, the 
clans that they had previously. 

1321
01:11:19,400 --> 01:11:24,480
And then it says that Israel was
or Jacob was God's allotment. 

1322
01:11:24,520 --> 01:11:26,200
You know, Israel is God's 
inheritance. 

1323
01:11:26,400 --> 01:11:28,560
And so God disinherits the 
nation's. 

1324
01:11:29,000 --> 01:11:32,280
He gives angelic beings as 
stewards very important 

1325
01:11:32,280 --> 01:11:36,640
language, as stewards, as 
guardians over the nations until

1326
01:11:36,960 --> 01:11:39,800
he would bring them back into 
the family, right. 

1327
01:11:39,920 --> 01:11:42,640
There has to be consequence for 
sin, but there's hope of 

1328
01:11:42,640 --> 01:11:45,600
reunion, restoration. 
What ends up happening is these 

1329
01:11:45,600 --> 01:11:48,760
gods of the nations, these 
angelic beings, they elicit 

1330
01:11:48,760 --> 01:11:51,000
human worship. 
This is Deuteronomy 419 and 

1331
01:11:51,000 --> 01:11:52,960
elsewhere. 
And when they elicit human 

1332
01:11:52,960 --> 01:11:56,000
worship, this sets the stage for
the entire Old Testament. 

1333
01:11:56,240 --> 01:11:58,000
This is where we get the gods of
the nations. 

1334
01:11:58,240 --> 01:12:01,040
This is why in this when God is 
dealing with Egypt, he gives 10 

1335
01:12:01,040 --> 01:12:02,880
plagues. 
Each of the plagues is aimed 

1336
01:12:02,880 --> 01:12:06,160
after one of the gods. 
The pantheon of Egyptian deities

1337
01:12:06,520 --> 01:12:09,840
and God says explicitly, I've 
done this to deal with Pharaoh 

1338
01:12:10,120 --> 01:12:13,680
and their gods and I'm going to 
show them, you know, and this 

1339
01:12:13,680 --> 01:12:17,760
goes to your kind of very astute
observation of the Lord Most 

1340
01:12:17,760 --> 01:12:21,760
High, right? 
Why do you have a title Most 

1341
01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:24,360
High if there's there's no no 
other? 

1342
01:12:24,520 --> 01:12:27,200
Lords if there's no other 
lowercase G gods. 

1343
01:12:27,280 --> 01:12:30,360
Exactly. 
And so that that's what you 

1344
01:12:30,360 --> 01:12:32,320
find. 
And so when in Daniel 8-9 and 

1345
01:12:32,320 --> 01:12:37,160
ten you're seeing the 
geopolitical activity of cosmic 

1346
01:12:37,160 --> 01:12:41,680
warfare being played out based 
off Deuteronomy 32, eight and 9,

1347
01:12:42,120 --> 01:12:45,480
would they be unseated now or? 
Would they still be trying to 

1348
01:12:45,600 --> 01:12:48,360
exercise their? 
This is such a good question. 

1349
01:12:48,360 --> 01:12:49,440
This is such a good question. 
OK. 

1350
01:12:49,720 --> 01:12:53,080
So what happens at the cross? 
This is very important detail. 

1351
01:12:53,680 --> 01:12:59,080
At the cross the the angelic 
beings ability to blind the 

1352
01:12:59,080 --> 01:13:02,200
nations is stripped. 
So now they can no longer blind 

1353
01:13:02,200 --> 01:13:04,760
the nations from the truth of 
the gospel, which means the 

1354
01:13:04,760 --> 01:13:08,520
primary weapon of spiritual 
warfare is the advancement of 

1355
01:13:08,520 --> 01:13:10,040
the gospel. 
It's the good. 

1356
01:13:10,040 --> 01:13:12,600
This is why in Ephesians 6, 
we're not told to go out and be 

1357
01:13:12,600 --> 01:13:14,800
demon hunters. 
We're not told to seek out. 

1358
01:13:14,800 --> 01:13:17,360
Now, I'm not saying that there's
not a place for that or, you 

1359
01:13:17,360 --> 01:13:20,600
know, I'm just saying that it's 
not the normative general call 

1360
01:13:20,600 --> 01:13:22,960
for all believers. 
And what is the general 

1361
01:13:22,960 --> 01:13:25,280
normative call for all 
believers, regardless of your 

1362
01:13:25,440 --> 01:13:27,800
situation, proclaim the gospel, 
Right? 

1363
01:13:27,960 --> 01:13:31,080
Because wherever the gospel 
goes, darkness withdraws. 

1364
01:13:31,400 --> 01:13:33,160
And guess what? 
By nature of advance in the 

1365
01:13:33,160 --> 01:13:35,720
gospel, you're going to bump 
into some demons every now and 

1366
01:13:35,880 --> 01:13:36,480
then. 
There's some. 

1367
01:13:36,480 --> 01:13:38,440
You think that's what Paul was 
bumping up against? 

1368
01:13:38,800 --> 01:13:41,320
Yes. 
Faithful to the Gospel. 

1369
01:13:41,560 --> 01:13:44,000
Right. 
And and then the darkness has to

1370
01:13:44,000 --> 01:13:46,040
recede. 
And So what are they doing right

1371
01:13:46,040 --> 01:13:48,240
now? 
I still think that they have 

1372
01:13:48,440 --> 01:13:52,600
general geopolitical 
affiliations and they're still 

1373
01:13:52,600 --> 01:13:56,840
ruling in systems and 
structures, but now they're in a

1374
01:13:56,840 --> 01:14:00,280
panic, right, because they 
cannot blind the nation's 

1375
01:14:00,280 --> 01:14:02,480
anymore. 
There's a really great scholar, 

1376
01:14:02,480 --> 01:14:04,960
his name is Daniel Block, and 
he's got a great book called 

1377
01:14:04,960 --> 01:14:07,480
Gods the Nations. 
And he does an entire thing 

1378
01:14:07,640 --> 01:14:10,360
where he maps out all the gods 
of the Old Testament. 

1379
01:14:10,680 --> 01:14:12,920
And he does this kind of 
three-part thing where he says, 

1380
01:14:12,920 --> 01:14:15,200
you know, in the ancient Near 
Eastern world, you have the 

1381
01:14:15,200 --> 01:14:18,040
deity, you have the land and you
have the people. 

1382
01:14:18,560 --> 01:14:23,600
OK, so the gods of the nations, 
they're attached to a land now. 

1383
01:14:23,600 --> 01:14:25,280
Land. 
People are migratory. 

1384
01:14:25,280 --> 01:14:28,120
They can go to a they just care 
about that land and whoever 

1385
01:14:28,120 --> 01:14:31,480
occupies that land, those 
people, those deities are going 

1386
01:14:31,480 --> 01:14:33,200
to try to take over and control,
right? 

1387
01:14:33,800 --> 01:14:37,120
It's different with Yahweh. 
Yahweh wants the people, yeah, 

1388
01:14:37,120 --> 01:14:38,680
because the whole earth is. 
He doesn't care about the 

1389
01:14:38,680 --> 01:14:40,680
territory, the whole earth, and.
Guess what? 

1390
01:14:41,000 --> 01:14:42,680
It's so. 
It's so short sighted of these 

1391
01:14:42,680 --> 01:14:47,600
deities because wherever the 
people go, they occupy what 

1392
01:14:48,280 --> 01:14:50,960
land. 
Which means the advancer of the 

1393
01:14:50,960 --> 01:14:55,480
gospel is simultaneously about 
humanity coming back to Yahweh, 

1394
01:14:55,480 --> 01:14:57,160
but it's also about the 
reclaiming of the world. 

1395
01:14:57,160 --> 01:14:59,120
It's usurping their authority of
the the. 

1396
01:14:59,120 --> 01:15:03,080
Demonic realms and God's Plan A 
is the Church. 

1397
01:15:04,200 --> 01:15:07,160
God's Plan A is the church, 
which is why we need to. 

1398
01:15:07,600 --> 01:15:10,760
Wash her with the water of the 
word and not pull up her skirts 

1399
01:15:10,800 --> 01:15:12,680
and expose her nakedness. 
Yes. 

1400
01:15:12,680 --> 01:15:16,720
I mean that's a very non 
theologically correct. 

1401
01:15:18,560 --> 01:15:21,520
But I do feel like that's the. 
Deconstruction, you know, if you

1402
01:15:21,520 --> 01:15:25,680
are deconstructing without a 
heart for the body, you're, 

1403
01:15:25,920 --> 01:15:28,240
you're not really building 
anything. 

1404
01:15:28,240 --> 01:15:31,600
You are an agent of destruction.
So we need to be people who 

1405
01:15:31,600 --> 01:15:34,880
actually have a heart to 
actually understand what we're 

1406
01:15:34,880 --> 01:15:38,240
wrestling with. 
And I can talk with you all day 

1407
01:15:38,240 --> 01:15:39,720
long. 
I mean, I'm looking at all these

1408
01:15:39,720 --> 01:15:41,680
questions. 
I'm like, there's so much, you 

1409
01:15:41,680 --> 01:15:44,960
know, I just want, I want to 
thank you for writing this book.

1410
01:15:45,600 --> 01:15:48,080
I, I want to, and I want to 
thank you for your humility 

1411
01:15:48,080 --> 01:15:51,520
about prayer. 
Because at the end of the day, 

1412
01:15:51,920 --> 01:15:53,960
knowledge is not what's going to
set us free. 

1413
01:15:53,960 --> 01:15:56,880
Knowledge is not what's going to
position us with spiritual 

1414
01:15:56,880 --> 01:15:58,800
authority. 
It's it'll give us knowledge. 

1415
01:15:58,800 --> 01:16:02,600
But the prayer is the key thing.
And I'm going to ask you to do 

1416
01:16:02,600 --> 01:16:05,280
something. 
I'm going to ask you to pray for

1417
01:16:05,280 --> 01:16:08,320
the people that are out there. 
This is a lot of information. 

1418
01:16:08,320 --> 01:16:11,440
I know people are like gasping 
and trying to write down some of

1419
01:16:11,440 --> 01:16:14,560
the references and I'm so 
thankful they can rewind cup, 

1420
01:16:14,600 --> 01:16:16,480
you know, come back to whatever 
over place hit it. 

1421
01:16:16,800 --> 01:16:21,760
But but prayer, prayer that you 
talked about, you have all of 

1422
01:16:21,760 --> 01:16:24,240
this background, but prayer was 
difficult. 

1423
01:16:24,240 --> 01:16:26,400
And I think there's a lot of 
people I know Addison has 

1424
01:16:26,400 --> 01:16:30,320
written words with God. 
But also his. 

1425
01:16:30,400 --> 01:16:32,040
His. 
Just his we're saying just 

1426
01:16:32,120 --> 01:16:37,200
inviting people just to first 
thing first thing just I'm here,

1427
01:16:37,440 --> 01:16:41,520
you know, just an inviting so 
people are ready they really are

1428
01:16:41,520 --> 01:16:45,320
ready for that just to begin to 
take back who they are to get 

1429
01:16:45,320 --> 01:16:48,080
back a life in the spirit 
because that's humility 

1430
01:16:48,640 --> 01:16:52,440
submitting to God resisting. 
But that humility begins with 

1431
01:16:52,440 --> 01:16:53,800
prayer. 
So could you pray for them? 

1432
01:16:53,800 --> 01:16:56,000
Absolutely. 
God, I just. 

1433
01:16:56,000 --> 01:16:59,720
Thank you for your kindness and 
even in like all of this 

1434
01:16:59,720 --> 01:17:04,440
conversation, just recognize 
that all of the other myths and 

1435
01:17:04,440 --> 01:17:07,560
the religions of the world are 
all about humanity trying to 

1436
01:17:07,800 --> 01:17:12,360
attain and just get the 
attention of the gods and and we

1437
01:17:12,360 --> 01:17:18,680
serve a God who loves us, who 
would see fit for him to come in

1438
01:17:18,680 --> 01:17:22,640
humanity through the incarnation
and and put love on display on a

1439
01:17:22,640 --> 01:17:25,600
cross. 
And so, Lord, I just pray for 

1440
01:17:26,160 --> 01:17:30,040
all the individuals who are 
listening, watching in whatever 

1441
01:17:30,040 --> 01:17:33,520
sphere of influence and just 
location they're at. 

1442
01:17:33,520 --> 01:17:38,080
If they're the mom in the car 
line waiting to pick up the 

1443
01:17:38,080 --> 01:17:43,200
kids, the dad who's hustling to 
try to make it from work to a an

1444
01:17:43,200 --> 01:17:47,160
athlete pick up a student 
pickup, or a college student 

1445
01:17:47,160 --> 01:17:50,400
who's navigating anxiety and 
stress about school in the 

1446
01:17:50,400 --> 01:17:51,960
future. 
Like regardless of what it might

1447
01:17:51,960 --> 01:17:56,400
be God, I pray that in this 
moment they would experience the

1448
01:17:56,400 --> 01:18:01,200
tangible comfort of the Holy 
Spirit in their hearts and in 

1449
01:18:01,200 --> 01:18:04,600
their lives that I pray 
Galatians chapter 5 for their 

1450
01:18:04,600 --> 01:18:08,320
life, that they would be a 
people led by the Spirit that 

1451
01:18:08,320 --> 01:18:12,040
walk with the Spirit and keep in
step with the Spirit and Lord. 

1452
01:18:12,040 --> 01:18:14,200
I pray specifically for the 
fruit of the Spirit to be 

1453
01:18:14,200 --> 01:18:17,840
embodied in their life. 
Lord made they be a people who 

1454
01:18:17,840 --> 01:18:21,440
embody Lovejoy, peace, patience,
kindness, goodness, gentleness 

1455
01:18:21,440 --> 01:18:25,840
and self-control and made these 
things, the ethics of God's 

1456
01:18:25,840 --> 01:18:29,480
Kingdom, be the weapons that 
they fight in a spiritual 

1457
01:18:29,480 --> 01:18:32,640
conflict with the world that 
wants to entice them into 

1458
01:18:32,640 --> 01:18:38,120
selfish ambition in vain conceit
and contempt and anger and 

1459
01:18:38,120 --> 01:18:41,600
jealousy. 
And so God, I just pray boldly 

1460
01:18:41,600 --> 01:18:46,320
and, and in faith that the very 
thing that Jesus asked us for in

1461
01:18:46,320 --> 01:18:50,200
John 17, as he modeled to us 
what life with the Father is 

1462
01:18:50,200 --> 01:18:55,080
that there would be a unity 
amongst all believers throughout

1463
01:18:55,280 --> 01:18:59,240
all these geolocations. 
God, I pray specifically against

1464
01:18:59,240 --> 01:19:04,320
the dark powers that want to use
politics as a place of division.

1465
01:19:05,120 --> 01:19:08,920
And I pray against the dark 
powers that want to use gender 

1466
01:19:08,920 --> 01:19:13,360
confusion in order to rob sons 
and daughters of their identity 

1467
01:19:13,520 --> 01:19:16,920
and of their, their being of the
beauty of being made in likeness

1468
01:19:16,920 --> 01:19:21,160
and image of God. 
Got to pray against the, the 

1469
01:19:21,160 --> 01:19:25,360
dark powers who want to promote 
sexual sin and pornography and 

1470
01:19:25,520 --> 01:19:28,400
even the rise of AI and the 
confusion around that. 

1471
01:19:28,400 --> 01:19:32,640
And, and how it's just robbing 
people of the joy of covenant 

1472
01:19:32,640 --> 01:19:37,400
marriage and love and affection 
in a way that is holy in order 

1473
01:19:37,400 --> 01:19:40,720
to grow a family that honors the
Lord. 

1474
01:19:40,720 --> 01:19:44,120
And and got to pray against 
shame for those that have 

1475
01:19:44,120 --> 01:19:46,600
already succumbed to temptations
in different places. 

1476
01:19:46,600 --> 01:19:49,360
And they have a narrative over 
their life right now that says, 

1477
01:19:49,640 --> 01:19:53,400
if God, if if there's no way 
with your past, what you've done

1478
01:19:53,400 --> 01:19:57,320
with what you've like, like 
shame is a tool of the enemy. 

1479
01:19:57,320 --> 01:19:59,640
It has no place in the economy 
of God's Kingdom. 

1480
01:20:00,520 --> 01:20:03,640
And so, Lord, we pray that that 
instead of that shame, there 

1481
01:20:03,640 --> 01:20:08,360
would be an exchange to receive 
the righteousness of Christ, 

1482
01:20:08,920 --> 01:20:12,400
because Christ has taken on the 
fullness of our sin and iniquity

1483
01:20:12,400 --> 01:20:15,440
on the cross. 
It's got a thank you for Lisa 

1484
01:20:15,440 --> 01:20:18,960
and John and the Beviers and 
Addison, the whole squad, the 

1485
01:20:18,960 --> 01:20:21,440
whole family got a thank you for
this family that is a winsome 

1486
01:20:21,440 --> 01:20:23,400
witness to us. 
God. 

1487
01:20:23,400 --> 01:20:27,440
Just even personally knowing how
they toil behind the scenes to 

1488
01:20:27,440 --> 01:20:32,840
advance the Kingdom, to pursue 
unity, to show humility in so 

1489
01:20:32,840 --> 01:20:34,920
many ways that the world will 
never see. 

1490
01:20:35,280 --> 01:20:40,000
I just thank you for their grace
that they pour out on others and

1491
01:20:40,000 --> 01:20:43,320
also how they steward the call 
that you've given to them. 

1492
01:20:43,320 --> 01:20:45,160
And I thank you for this team 
here in Messenger. 

1493
01:20:45,160 --> 01:20:48,320
It's got the people who are 
working cameras and editing and 

1494
01:20:48,320 --> 01:20:50,640
doing all the work. 
The names and the faces, the 

1495
01:20:50,640 --> 01:20:54,560
people will never see and yet 
are so key and crucial to the 

1496
01:20:54,560 --> 01:20:57,240
advancement of the gospel. 
I pray your blessing over this 

1497
01:20:57,240 --> 01:20:59,520
ministry. 
And we're just grateful that we 

1498
01:20:59,520 --> 01:21:02,640
get to be a small part of your 
grand victory tour. 

1499
01:21:02,720 --> 01:21:03,480
Your name, we pray. 
Amen. 

1500
01:21:03,480 --> 01:21:06,040
Amen. 
OK, guys, I think you. 

1501
01:21:06,040 --> 01:21:09,080
Know there are so many things 
that we have just taken. 

1502
01:21:09,200 --> 01:21:12,640
Taken is just oh, that's just 
the way it is or whatever. 

1503
01:21:12,880 --> 01:21:17,360
And I hope you have your 
curiosity woken up. 

1504
01:21:17,680 --> 01:21:20,400
You need this book, The unseen 
battle. 

1505
01:21:20,400 --> 01:21:22,600
You can get it anywhere books 
are sold. 

1506
01:21:22,600 --> 01:21:24,840
You can grab it on Amazon. 
You can go to Christian 

1507
01:21:24,840 --> 01:21:29,960
bookstores, but you cannot 
afford to be unaware of what is 

1508
01:21:29,960 --> 01:21:31,760
going on. 
Joel, thank you so much. 

1509
01:21:32,080 --> 01:21:34,320
Thank you for joining me. 
I'm so glad I got to meet you in

1510
01:21:34,320 --> 01:21:35,640
person. 
I'm so grateful. 

1511
01:21:35,720 --> 01:21:36,880
Thank you. 
Thanks for coming.