Hello everyone. Welcome back to another episode
of Do You Sleep? Repeat.
My name is. Dylan and my name is Hayden
Hammer back in the room. In the room sitting down this
time in the studio, Yeah. Is it down this time because
he's got a long old day? First thing Dylan did, I was
setting up how you came in, walked in, not hello, allegedly.
Nothing. I've made him a drink, left it
there for him. Can we sit down this week?
Let me sound like a six year old builder.
He did. You can sit down and shut up.
I don't wanna stand up. We had some feedback though from
last week, didn't we? Yeah, My favourite bit of
feedback was, firstly there was some nice stuff you're like, oh,
you know, it's more conversational.
Yeah, having more of a chance, more natural.
We're not like waiting for like the two second zoom today.
Yeah, but my favourite one was how someone told me that you
look so incredibly bored and disinterested when I'm talking
because it's on the screen, there's no cutting out anymore.
I can't get rid of it. I usually I love the idea that
you were doing it there, but like.
I have no idea what you just said.
No idea. Just apparently you just like
like like you just make the cameras off.
You know what? Still.
On it's not the first time I've had feedback that my general
thinking and listening failure is so like resting like.
Like, I don't even mean to be rude.
Sometimes. I am just so sometimes I am
zoned down. I am being rude, but you don't
know it. They do know it.
Yeah, the point? Other times, yeah, yeah.
Anyway, so exactly yeah. And by the way, so much better.
I feel like I'm just having a chat.
The mood has changed. I do wonder if the other bit of
feedback I got as well was no, no, no, OK no, it was on and
we're probably already take it now was, but we do it normally
in different rooms. Yeah, it's it's a bit more like
proper, like more of a conversation, whereas they said
it's good or bad, but it's definitely way more like we're
just being silly like in. School.
I'm not. I mean, that's probably a thing.
But I'm not sure how much of that is the situation of us
being in here, and how much of that is if you listen to every
single episode, I would say we steadily have become.
Anymore, you're going back and listen to episode one.
Honestly, it's fine. We could Episode one.
Hello Haygen, what do you think about education?
Ohh well Dylan, I'm actually thinking that it wasn't quite a
state right now, isn't it? And now we're like God teaching.
I love it and it's exhausting and we also hate it.
But yeah, that that was the generic feedback.
It just really made me laugh. Was like it was quite positive
but but it just really pinpointed.
Yeah, absolutely. It's.
I just know that face and what made me think of was how we are
effectively shadow banned, right from being in the same year
group in any school we work in. There's not like an official
role. Yeah, but I think it's good for
both of us. I think we both agree because do
you remember those days when we were in the same year group?
Yeah, I remember, because you just throw stuff.
I think that's what I remember being in the same year group
that I don't know about anyone else.
But when I look at this I just, I just think of target paint
one. It wasn't hard, so it was like a
soft like dodgeball. One of the kids got me to turn
round yesterday and honestly I'm not joking, just said see, he's
got hair at the back, that's what I did.
And obviously, like a mug I just went what turned round.
And because they would be like they're nice glass.
I'm not gonna lie, We haven't. Yeah, really.
Answer baby bouncer. And yeah, I was just like, but
to me, what I love about that is it kind of insinuates that
they're just having a conversation.
Should have been doing the work they're doing your hair minute
like you're the teacher, Jesse. I'm like no regard for you
whatsoever. One of them's like one a little
bit of money. They had a bet on it.
Yeah, ohh damn it. That's my lunch.
Does have hair in the back. Someone got their gammon anyway,
that was the feedback from last night was pretty cool.
I I actually. In the end I went up and down
like a roller coaster on mine. Boyment of being face to face.
I think I prefer it. And it feels more like we're
just having a chat and it feels like, well, those year four days
where where we come round and we're in the same school, yeah,
And in the same year group. And we would just spend 2 hours
talking and then be moaned about being stressed, whereas now we
spend 0 hours talking and still learning about being stressed.
So that's how far teachers come, yeah?
Teachers got way better anyway. Yep. age-old question.
What's the catch up on this week?
Because I already know what you're gonna say.
I already know what you gonna talk about because it's been my
own week. How was your week?
True. Fantastic.
Just like your week, there's been stress free.
Umm, your face. We'll get to my week.
It's been good. I think we're gonna talk
obviously about behaviour and stuff later, but just a little
things. My class are just lovely and you
taught these this cohort before as we said last week, so I'm
just, I'm just in the way they're lovely.
Send it somewhere, I don't know where or when We'll talk about
that. Later Yeah, yeah, OK.
But yeah, the the main point is the school band.
So we just talking about our banter.
We're shadow banned from being in the same year group.
Definitely true. Can see why, because when we're
not causing complete chaos this, these last two weeks, I feel
like I should start with my story of the lunch hall and we
go from there. OK.
That was the most because we'll bring in the customers like I
was brought in customers back to calling you back.
Yeah. Someone messages the other day
in reference themselves a customer.
Ohh, brilliant. Yeah.
So I'm gonna bring the viewers on a journey with me because.
I am the listeners. Dylan as well.
Yeah, sorry, you're right. But it's stressful week,
alright. Anyway, I walk into the lunch
hall to have lunch with the children and it's kind of moved.
Around like timings and stuff. Why do you do that by the way?
I never actually asked what like we all have lunch in the staff
room. Why do you eat all Well, I get a
school dinner. I just a free one.
It's free. Ohh if you eat with the kids.
It's not why I get it. I can afford a lunch.
But I, you know, remember I said in the podcast, I'm not sure.
You know, he said every week about how you should have your
lunch prepared so you're not stressed at lunchtime.
Yeah. Didn't do it.
Yeah. So one way to get around that is
you get free lunch, just jump the queue, go in, get free lunch
10 minutes, eat it, and then. Go I didn't do any of those tips
that I gave. You don't.
So we have a fraud actually. If you want to go, if you want
to see how much of forces we are, then yeah, go back and
listen to that episode where we give you advice that we don't
follow. Anyway, prepared lunch slash
code is guaranteed for every dinner and just sat with the
kids. One, because I think you get it
for free if you with the kids. But two also, it's just nice.
Yeah, like it's. Just and I love you, this
cohort. Honestly, honestly.
Idolise him. I don't.
I don't mean to. Like, I'm not trying to sound.
I'm gonna sound like I'm being arrogant.
Yeah, I wish you are. I am incredibly arrogant.
But honestly, walk into that hall with the with the fives and
sixes who are taught in the last couple of years and I can't go
past the table without a kid wanted to talk to me, but I I
love it. It's nice.
Anyway, So I sat down chatting to him and I sat down and this
is what happened though. They're coming up to me and I'm
like, no, what? They're like, no, no, they're
coming up to me to say just to Stevens.
Mr Steve Mr Steve and like what? Why has he done?
And they're like and and then there's one guy I told the
deputy head. Literally said to him, I'm.
I'm just. I just want to let you know that
Mister Stevens just finds any opportunity to mention Mr. Price
in the lessons. And I just.
I'm just, you know I'm just wanna let you know.
I just wanna tell you so only the kids come up to me.
You wanna talk to Mr Stephen? You've been talking about you.
He's been talking about you. Turns out I'm the hook for any
kind of creative writing that happens.
In that you're pretty much so I obviously go and find Hayden and
Hayden, please, please allude to the elicitors as to what's been
happening in this. Last.
Well, not much. Just like basically any.
The English lesson, particularly, and maths
actually. Any lesson lesson where there's
anything I can model or I'm just noticing that they're starting
to build up a bit like remember 20 minutes into our
prepositions. That's boring and I'm just like,
I just want to. I just want to spice it up for
five seconds to try and get their attention.
Of course it's it's at the detriment of this guy.
And today, for example, we were writing sentences with colon to
introduce a list. And of course I gave them a
prompt which was. Something like I just saw Mr.
Price and was terrified or something like that.
Something about him, and they had to come up with the reasons
why. I believe this list like that's
the thing. It's jokes aside, it is.
Like great and engaging for them.
Like they do write some good stuff and then I'm like, ohh,
you can't. They wanna be funny that you
want to be funny. I'm like, you know you can't
read it out if it's not right. Let's be punctuated correctly.
It's spelled correctly. You've used in conjunction.
That doesn't make sense. Which makes sense.
I want to read this out. Make it a laugh about how much
the price is. Is Shrek, You know, Yeah, it was
an ogre. That.
That was a theme, Yeah. And we called you an ogre.
You. Well, today you were you were
wearing a mum's bikini. Yeah, apparently.
OK, and which the kids obviously been hilarious?
Brilliant. Yeah.
But did they do some good writing?
They did some good writing. That's really good.
I was really impressed and I heard about this, I heard about
this story and I thought, alright, OK, no problem.
Knowing that these kids can very quickly turn.
I've got a lot of credit with these kids.
So yeah, so I made I'm going to post on Instagram.
I went away and basically I sat at lunch time and plotted with
these children. They were telling me and I was
like, how can we get him? How can we get back?
Could you just get it? I was like, OK, you know, I'm
going to do, I'm going to make you, I'm gonna make a few of
your bookmark right, You know? Like what?
Did you tell them you were gonna?
Yeah, I'm gonna make a bookmark, OK.
And I'm gonna put Mr Stevens face.
On it. It's gonna be a funny face.
They'll know. And they're like, yeah, yeah,
yeah, you should do that. You should do that.
So today I made four bookmarks. Postman Instagram at Street with
Peapod. Cost on Instagram you want to go
and see what the bookmarks look like, but it's just like a card
for you, like making a silly face.
And it's a YouTube video, yeah, YouTube video at the bottom.
It just said when you read your cliffhanger in your favourite
book and you're like and I made sure to put your face at the
top, so just hang up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So to give them to these four children, they went back
apparently to year six. And I said hide them.
Just put them in your book and I'll see them at some point.
And apparently they all did it. Yeah, they did.
So they were in my class at that time.
So we do it like a carousel afternoon every now and then.
So I had all the whole year group this afternoon and I
happened to have those four children at that time.
First let's first session and yeah, they came back in.
And I do love moments like this, like these are really special to
me, seeing kids come back in pure like.
Pure joy. Exactly like the like they will
remember that they'll laugh about it for weeks.
Yeah, like, absolutely. Like one girl came in and she
was like bright red and trying so hard not to laugh and like
wet herself laughing and and and I was also aware that I wasn't a
lesson as well. So I was like, I knew that he'd
done something funny. So I thought, right, I'm going
to let them do their thing. But right now because I actually
am teaching. So I was like, come sit down.
And I knew that that fit with their theme.
They're all hiding something anyway, So I just pretended.
But come on, sit back down. Get on with it.
And then, yeah, maybe like 1015 minutes later, I'd actually kind
of forgotten. I'm not gonna lie.
I would just got into the lesson and I was like, walking around
the tables and there's one boy who's really funny.
I really like this guy. He's so funny.
Just just had this bookmark just like just perfectly poking out
where she just put there because, you know, was going
around and he was like, pretending to do it.
Like. Yeah, just sort of moved this
bit like this as I'm walking past it just moved this book
with his hand and I saw the thing poking out and I was like,
what is this now? Well I really like just went
mental, you know? Ohh, it was fun, but right, this
is what they don't like. You don't teach it in in
university and stuff, right? It is those moments like right
now, I'm not gonna lie, I've been incredibly stressed and
we'll talk about. I have just been so stressed
this week. Yeah, but that like little
snippet there is genuinely making heart full of like
laughter, enjoyment. Like it's just is genuinely so
funny. And the the thought of those
kids like what is actually like maybe this is controversial,
right? But the I think those kids today
got more out of that than anything else they did all day.
But for them personally, yeah, I mean, that's me.
OK. Yeah, sure.
They learn how to order numbers up to six.
Digits, But they don't care. Yeah, sure, they learn, you
know, the the, the, the wives of Henry the Eighth, whatever it is
they were doing. Yeah.
But realistically that that moment of like those connections
in your head of laughter and joy and enjoying themselves but long
term was to have an effect on their bond.
And and I know it's a joke for you, but it's still they only
find it funny because they respect.
You. Yeah.
Love you.
It was. It was at the.
Was at the cost of maybe 60 seconds, umm, of a less than
genuine. And that's realistically like
all it actually took up. Because after about 60 seconds
we thought we we'd had our laugh and then we did just get back to
what we were doing, right? And I would say that 60 seconds
was worth it, absolutely worth it.
It's like 60 seconds more of learning maybe, But I think that
had a bigger impact overall because I think teaching, I
always have thought this is just a big psychological game.
And I know I've said this before, I'm just repeating
myself, but I think our job is to get.
Children to enjoy learning and if we have to forge situations
where they attribute their time in a classroom, learning with.
I like that. It was fun.
Yeah, genuinely. I think making those links yeah,
long term is going to serve those people better.
It's like, OK, do you remember learning as a fun experience or
are you like half of the UK culture that absolutely.
Just to test score and then tells our children how much they
hate school and they're just true.
That's that's a cultural thing, you know.
Yeah. I think it's important that we
just don't take ourselves too. Seriously, sometimes.
And actually just do something fun for the very sake of it
being fun for the kids so they have a funny memory to go home
with. Yeah, and that's fine.
You're convincing me more and more because, look, don't get me
wrong, this, this. I always feel like I'm a
hypocrite when I say this. Because we always talk about how
having fun with the children is like the number one stepping
stone for me for so much stuff. Whether that's behaviour,
whether that's respect, whether that's life lessons on how to
get on with someone and where the line is and how to joke with
them and being a person who's likeable as they grow up.
Yeah, And also the fact that it leads them to be learning more
because they want to be in the classroom with you and they hang
off you and stuff like that, right?
So, like, that is absolutely my mantra.
But I still somehow I'm kind of trapped in that idea.
Yeah. But, you know, the the idea of
learning this thing is sacrosanct.
And yeah, we have to always have the end goal of learning this
thing. It's obviously just not true.
I think it's because it's our job to teach them stuff.
But some kids don't get that wholesome experience outside of
school. Yeah.
And you're giving it to them. And it's not saying that they
all don't because obviously they have fantastic lives.
But no matter what your situation is going to be
children in your cohort who don't experience that.
Hmm. And they, that is everything to
them. And like, we can give them that
it's. It's a powerful thing.
Yeah. And it's.
Good. I I think you went for a bit of
a phase and I don't mean to trivialise you as if I know you
better than, but just as someone who knows you very well and we
talk a lot about like our views on everything with school, I do
feel like you went through. If I think about the end of this
phase, or if that's just the way you think now, but where like
last year like you were, you were really, really really, like
vocal about that opinion you were just saying before of like,
yeah, but every minute is learning time.
And actually that is that is the only unimportant goal.
And you and I remember, I actually remember being a bit
like, Oh my God, like literally think.
Honestly, genuinely yelling at you a little bit in my head,
thinking I don't think I agree with you, really.
I think that's a side effect. I think that's like a symptom.
I think it's a symptom of the wider structure of teaching
where you you've gotta put it in context here of every hour of
training we get or have got, whether it's personally or in
general, every single thing we have been told from the top down
is from that perspective. It's never Are we ever given
training truthfully on the feelings of the children?
Not that I remember really. We had, we had a bit of a mental
health chat once but are we ever really like every single thing
we're told to do and that instructs our job is from the
idea of they have to be able to learn this, go and show they've
learned this skill and retrieved this fact and do this and do
that and do this. And do the importance and if if
you also marry that with the attitude of OK, well this is a
job we we have been striking and I think this is it came it came
in tandem with the strikes right.
Because my my idea with them was OK I'm I'm putting less time
into this job then because otherwise it's just completely
unsustainable. So my goal had to be really, you
know, simplified. And it was they need to learn as
much as possible. And I think that's how I coped
with trying to manage the fact that we're striking, not going
over and above and doing 10 hours extra every single week to
get everything done. Yeah.
So I was like, cool, How can I distil this then?
OK, it's my job to come in and make sure they learn this and
learn that. And whilst I'm doing that, I'm
going to try and build those relationships.
But the end goal was always to make them learn things.
I still think the end goal is to make them learn things.
I just think that maybe I need to vocalise more, actually.
What I mean is that those relationships are just so
important. And I think maybe at the start
of the school year is when that's more obvious because I
spend so much time at the start of the year forging those
relationships and trying to make them laugh and enjoy being at
school and just showing them that I care about them.
Yeah. Is more important right now than
whether or not they know how to add 10.
Yeah. And it sounds absolutely
ridiculous to some people. Maybe.
But others will hear that and go, obviously.
Yeah. And I think if you're a teacher,
you can get trapped in that idea of objectives, objectives,
objectives, objectives right now, you asked me, what if I had
one thing from each kid that I want them to have learned in
these first three weeks or feel in these first three weeks, is
that they're safe in school and they enjoy being with me.
Yep. Yeah, I fully agree.
I don't disagree with you whatsoever.
That's number one to me, always will be, always has been,
regardless of anything that else.
Everyone says. I'm just sort of like, yeah, OK,
that's your opinion. Because I know what has worked
for me and it is the children I've, I've had that relationship
with have always done the best. They just have, absolutely.
And I think it pays dividends, doesn't it now like now when
they're in year six and but you can use that hook for me to get.
Better, Yeah, I know. That's why I do it.
I'm not doing it. I was saying to someone in the
in the staff. I was like, I wouldn't do it
about another member of staff. Because it's a different, it's a
different relationship then like they know securely that mean you
have that banter, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
So they understand like properly the relationship, you know, the
children, they're clever enough. I think a lot of people might be
listening to this worried like or does it set a precedent?
No, no it doesn't. That's what I mean, because
these kids do not do this for anyone else, because what we've
explicitly taught them along the way is that behaving like this
is acceptable in certain circumstances.
It's a very mature way of thinking and acting.
Really hot on that as well. Like for, for example, literally
today. Like just just made that point.
Like what? One kid.
Just took it too far that there's I make it very clear
that there is a line like we can have fun and these are the
boundaries in which we and they're learning those lines.
So it's a learning. Exactly.
And that's fine. And then, and then someone was
just being a little bit too silly.
I was like, oh, OK, actually, you need to stop because I tell
you what you're doing. You're starting to take the Mick
out of me and the fact that we've had a little bit of fun
and now you're just taking advantage of it.
So we're all going to stop you going too far, right.
Learners boundaries and we'll have fun.
If not, we're just, you know, and they were just like, because
I've got a little bit of respect from them.
They were actually like, oh God. I don't wanna do that.
Yeah, of course. It was nice, but it wasn't like
a harsh crying or upset. They were just sort of like, OK,
I'll get that now, yeah, and then, you know, tomorrow we can
build on that. But I tell you what has come
back, what has come back to me and you, cousins.
Again, if you've not listened to one of our older episodes, we've
had a very, very long ongoing joke.
Ohh, yes. In which in which we're brothers
and we tell the children that we're brothers and then most of
them obviously don't believe it. And then we go, Ohh, we're just
cousins really, but they always believe that because someone
step down. Only joking.
That was the lie. Here's the truth.
Really mean just a manipulating that there.
OK, but the kids, they were like.
Are you are you cousins? Because I'd always heard it from
you years ago. They're, aren't you?
Aren't you? Cousins?
I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, They're trying to do something.
I took it really serious. I was trying to.
I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Look at them thinking they don't
believe me, do they? They don't believe me.
No. Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure.
And then I told one of them who didn't believe me, who do you
very well. Was like, no, you're not.
I was like, yeah, I know. But it's a it's an ongoing joke.
So what I need you to do next time you see Dylan is very
convincingly say, see. I knew you weren't cousins, but
I never knew you were. Do you hate Mr Stevens's dad?
She the idea to have doing that. Stop doing it.
She can stop laughing. But the idea of going to you and
trying to be serious. Thinking saying that you're my.
Dad, Ohh man, it was good. I'm having for the first time
because you know, I went to year 3 for one year.
Yeah, yeah. That was that was this cohort
who are now in year six. Ohh.
Yeah, I keep. Thinking you had them before.
I feel I did. I went up.
Ohh yeah, 3:00 to 4:00. So this is the first time where
I feel like I know them so well and I already feel sad that
they're leaving. Yeah, and I'm not even with
them. Not even like you like it.
People in year six must get this every year.
But like, just because I had them when they were so little
and they came in post COVID, like just after the first COVID
year they started with us. It's definitely a thing having
kids two years, I don't know what it is, but there is
something about that, Yeah, because I've only had that once.
And those kids I don't. I know it sounds biassed, but
they are like super special for me.
Yeah, they're just, I think it's because I had them two years so
they just they, you know, I I missed them.
Yeah, so good. Yeah, so good.
But yeah. Anyway, that was how the the
book OK, I will post the bookmark.
I mean it's been a whole week and I was like, I've got this
something back because these kids were absolutely lovely.
I had a really I had this one thing this week.
So I've not talked about market too much.
Like maybe we'll talk about in a second.
But it was just stressful. It's just been stressful.
I think it's been stressful, Week mentioned.
Yeah, man. It's been stressful.
I'm not gonna then I'm not gonna vent to you guys.
You're here. I'm really sorry to cut you off.
Can I just say one last thing? Just remember, just remember
when you talk about your stress. So last thing.
I was in Dylan's room the other day, a great time and we looked
around and a bunch of kids were just laughing at his window.
House. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think they were like, ohh, it's them.
They're together. They're not actually arch
enemies or whatever. And and they came in and one
girl just couldn't stop laughing.
You're like, what? And she was like, it's just your
eyebrows. It's just your eyebrows.
I got her to explain afterwards. She can't stop laughing to you.
I said to her, what Pointy. What were you laughing?
She was like, yeah, Mr Mr Mr Mr Mr Price's eyebrows are just so
like pointy and bushy. She was like yours are really
flat like this And she literally put her hands up this.
She was like, Mr Prices are like that.
They go a bit pointier. Like a Caterpillar they are.
To be fair, yeah, they are pointier.
Mine are more like rainbows, beautiful rainbows.
And yours are like pointy, pointy like Jagger.
We've gone on and on here. We have gone on and on.
There you go, you know. I had a terrible joke from a
child and it just really made me laugh because the child was
trying to be really funny and, you know, just tell you a joke.
I was like, OK, of course, on a podcast, what do you call a
cheetah? That's not yours.
I don't know Nacho cheese. Cheese.
She got nachos wrong. The cheese wrong.
What do you call cheese that's not yours?
Nacho cheese? What do you call it?
Cheetah. That's not yours.
Ohh. Nacho cheese.
I was like, was that good?
Yeah. Yeah, sure.
Run along. Spelling.
Come on, do you spending trying to make bookmarks?
She just sat there. She's just, she's just sat there
going. I can't carry on and tell us how
to. I can't.
This is such a good joke. I cannot carry on.
That's not yours. Not turkeys.
And she's so annoying she's gone home.
All she's thinking about is the fact she got that joke wrong.
It's like calling your teacher. Mum, she thought it was right.
She was like. Please anyway ohh dear.
But I think what we've been talking about actually leads
really nicely into what this Aren't you stressed?
I'm a bit stressed. I'm sorry, it's just, I know you
don't want to talk about it, but.
I don't want to talk about it, but I want to know if people are
watch this guy every session. Come on, how are you?
I'm fine. I'm fine.
A lot of people have this same thing.
You just have a stressful week. Do you wanna massage?
There is not enough. Don't touch me.
There is. Please never, ever touch me.
There's not enough time in the week to do stuff.
And it just winds me up. It winds me up.
This is such a weird job. I just don't know how many jobs
where someone can be like. Do that and you're like.
I'm already doing my job. Yeah, my job time is filled.
My, my, it's filled up. I'm not.
I'm not in this building for fun.
I was in. I was in school for 10 hours
today. Hmm.
Yep. I still didn't get some stuff
done. And I just thought, tough, yeah.
Just it's tough, but it's but it's it's I said this on the
Fred the other day. It's so easy for me to say that
and for everyone to say that, but you've still gotta live the
stress of knowing you haven't done something.
Yeah, like it's easy to be like, Oh well, it's not done.
And I did leave. And also having people think
things of you because. You have.
I think I'm past that. I don't care about that anymore
because I I would just turn around and say this is the
amount of time I spent doing stuff today.
Yeah, no point any of this time was I just.
I don't want to be in this. But you still carry a little
bit, though I do. Even though you weren't on it, I
reckon you still care. I mean a little bit, but I think
I'm at the point now where. Like if you think that that's
your problem, Like if you think that I'm being work shy or
unacceptable for not doing something, yeah.
Having been in the building for 10 hours a day this week.
Then I'm not the problem. Hmm.
I'm not the problem. It's true that the problem is
the expectation. Yeah.
And I say every week, and I'm people like a broken record.
Listen to this. But I want everyone else to
think this. You lost hundreds.
If you striked. If you didn't, then well done
for the pay rise for doing nothing.
But apart from that, if you strike last year right, you lost
hundreds and hundreds of pounds. He's, I'm just, he's really
grumpy. All right, he's saying he's.
Grumpy. It's fine.
I don't mind losing hundreds of
pounds so they gain 100. It's not love me if if you
strike the last year you lost hundreds of pounds to just get a
bit less of a pay cut and I'd say every week and workload has
not changed. Don't.
You don't need to accept the fact that the strikes are over.
Hmm. I voted no for that deal.
You didn't. So I said OK, cool, this is what
I'm doing now. I'm not doing work outside of my
10 hours a day. Yeah, because that is way more
than my director time. I'm already doing more than
directed time. If something needs to be done
outside of that, I don't have time to do it.
It's not an endless pot. Let's make it clear for non
educational people. Part time, 30 hours people are
like, yeah, of course, yeah, but Dylan's not saying that he'll
only do those those directed hours of like, well, you're like
directed hours for most schools are gonna be something like 8:30
to 3:30, right? He's not saying he's only gonna
do that. He's he's already saying he's
gonna put in like an extra 2-3 hours a day for free.
And if that's not enough, and I agree with this, if that's not
enough, I'm not the problem. If that's not enough, I think
I've had that opinion and kind of acting on it for like a
couple of years to an extent. Have you done work outside of
school every week? Weekends.
Yeah, that's what I mean. I'm not there.
Ohh wow. Even the weekends I thought you
were factoring in, like. A planning No, I'm not doing it.
I'm not doing it. Wow.
I don't. And and look, will I fold after
four weeks maybe because. Here's the point.
I'm not relishing this. Yeah, I'm not revelling in this
choice. Yeah, I'm stressed.
I'm so stressed because I've implemented this thing on
myself, not doing it right. I've got principles.
Yeah, I've got principles. It's nothing to do with the fact
I don't have a computer right now.
That's a coincidence. Days.
What? Started off, I physically
couldn't do stuff. Yeah, but then I'm like, wait,
why am I doing it? So I made the choice.
I've made the choice this year. Sorry, I'm going on now.
But I've made the choice this year.
I'm getting an earlier than I've ever got in.
I'm getting in at 727. Ten, 720 people would be
laughing at that, by the way, because I know we're getting
6:30. It's not a race to the bottom.
Yeah, I know, this is the other thing.
Don't compare me to. If you want to compare me to
other people, I'd say cool. Anyway, back to my literal facts
and arguments here, because that's irrelevant.
If someone else wants to do more, that's nothing to do.
Not really relevant. If someone else to work 74 hours
a week, yeah, not really relevant because that's not the
gold bar. I'm talking about pure hours.
It's just mad. It's just mad to me how it's
this job where it's just like and it's random.
It's completely random. It it doesn't matter like you,
you could have something to do, like you could have a parent who
wants a meeting, you could have a document.
You've got to fit in right? That someone else just doesn't.
They're already stressed, working hard.
I don't want to give them anything.
So I'm not saying give everyone something.
I'm saying I've got this extra thing now.
My time is not worthless. I'm sorry, my time is not
worthless. And there's a lot going on at
the minute. In terms of both our lives and
like, we just moved house and everything.
And I'm just getting ready now to be like, like, look, I've got
to go home and do decorating. Otherwise I don't have a
kitchen. Yeah, yeah, I've got to go home
and, you know, look out for everyone else or do this or do
that because otherwise that doesn't happen.
So actually, yeah, I'm not doing it.
Yeah, and he's stressed. I'm stressed.
I'm stressed because it's a stressful burden to take on and
I really respect people who've done it for so far because it's
not nice being in a school. Like you might feel like you're
the minority of like ohh, workshy.
It's like no, look at the look at the numbers.
No teacher is work Shy. No, by definition, no.
It just can't happen. No.
And that is a stigma that gets put on teachers.
I think sometimes they don't do as much as the ones that do.
Tonnes of time I think as well what you're experiencing at the
moment because you've just moved out like you've got you have
actually got on as much as I like to joke but a lot of you
know we've we've been very, very lucky we're we're we're very
lucky people in terms of in our whole career really we've not
had that much like outside stress to deal with no maybe a
house move 5-6 years ago. Give us like that.
You know I'm not being funny. Moving into your first time.
Very different from moving a house.
Yeah, true. You move from one bedroom,
basically. You look at your mums or
whatever. Exactly.
That's much easier, isn't it? Yeah, but it just really
highlights that. It makes it a bit more aware, I
guess, of other people who are potentially in these kinds of
stress for whatever reason. There are stresses.
You are was like stuff outside of work more regularly all the
time. You don't then works you some
piled on top and like people like some people and some people
don't have that at all. And then and then they have the
expectation of expectation of like well I'm you know I'm
putting in the work. I'm putting 12 hours in a day on
average. Why aren't you doing It's like
well maybe their life outside of work is very very, very
different. Yeah.
And it's not fair to expect them to live up to that as well.
And maybe it's not and they just don't want to do that because
it's a job. Like I'm not being funny.
Like that is the point. We've got to like how crap is
your life? Outside of teaching for you to
justify not doing this, that's where we're at.
That's true. That's where we're at.
Where what's what's the awful thing that's going on that
you're not doing 12 hour life. Fine.
Come on. Ohh, Sundays just got planning.
Yeah, there was a cut there because I went off on one.
We gonna do about it? I'm sweating.
I think that's the longest we've ever done.
There's like a. Theme We get on to what we're
actually talking about. I think it's time to play the
Jingle everybody, don't you? Hello, we're back after that
short break. Why I pet I just said I can't do
the accent. Why Ant and Dec are not
returning returning? Someone message on Freds.
They posted like what are you up to?
Why I packed with like a deck. Ohh man ohh we yeah this anti
neck sweats like this on television.
No, they get their foundation people into pat them down to two
men dripping in a in a studio which is just a tiny room in.
My house, bedroom, a massive light.
Who do we think we are? There's like 10 people gonna
listen to this, I tell you. We think ohh mate, there's a lot
of people copying us right now, isn't?
There Ohh mate. A lot of people.
White Rose Education.
Ohh got a podcast? Yeah.
Listen, listen, we did it first, alright?
We did it first. We did it.
But Mr P, copy this new season. Come on, Mr P Yeah, we referred.
We've been in a podcast for like.
Months. All these people, God do.
I'm doing a podcast now. Listen, listen.
Do you wanna do a podcast and ask us?
Speaking of Mr P, love him if you.
Yeah, go back a few episodes. He came on, he chatted to us.
He was great. This time we just say that joke
because they'll laugh. They'll laugh.
He's gone on tour, by the way. I really, I wish I could go on
tour. I literally can't go.
I would have gone and watched him.
You wanna go? No.
That's all we do. One we're gonna fill out the the
town hall, 10 people and their dog.
Well, we just turn up. Should we buy a ticket with Mr
Pete and just go on the stage? Hello.
Hiya, it's Mr P Mr Rest. Ohh yeah, that was a joke.
One three piece. Yeah it's great.
He's his podcast is smashing it. Yeah he's podcast is bad.
Listen to the first episode it's just it's classic there's
there's they get so many stories.
I know I'm very clear. Like can we have one please?
Yeah, I'm asking if we can have the dregs.
Yeah, like I was worried about copy was like, can you write us
your funny stories? Isn't really an education
podcast, which is absolutely nailed that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Isn't it massive?
We're gonna do it anyway. No, he's great.
He's such a great guy. One of those things like we said
I know we're not talk about Mr this whole thing but classic
thing of when you speak to someone who has that kind of
following. I I just thought, I always think
with those people, like, they're probably a little bit, maybe
aloof bit, like, yeah, you know, I'm busy doing this.
But he was just such a nice, he was really cool.
I messaged him, not remotely expecting a reply.
Like, yeah, he's got like 400,000 followers.
And all our people who come on, yeah, I know everyone's been so
good, but I was least expecting a reply from him purely because
of that reason. Yeah, but the more followers
got, just generally the more messages you're gonna get the
more you've got three right? And yeah, he was just like
alright pal. Yeah, yeah, it sounds cool.
He was like, yeah, I listen to that.
I was like, ohh, it's just enough.
He's human being. Ohh yeah, people are just
normal. People are like you, very
cynical all the time. I'm like, no, no, we've got like
100 followers now. I don't talk to you, you or you.
We've got more than 100 followers.
Have we? How many?
I don't. Know more than 100?
I honestly, I don't look anything ever.
I couldn't even tell you if a person listening to.
This. I'm just doing it for laughs.
This podcast has been streamed in 40 different countries.
Now that means nothing to me because I just presume everyone
on the VPN even. OK, it's that one person that.
Just pretend it sounds good. OK, sounds good.
In 40 different countries it was me and my VPN.
I went on my. Anyway, behaviour.
Yeah, right. Is linked is linked to the same
before wrapping up there. Should be, yeah.
I'll be really honest with the customers, the consumers, yeah.
You're listeners, consumer, we we've been zonked.
Like this week we do actually. We do actually find this podcast
and you won't believe it, but we do actually plan it out and we
did not plan one this week. And we sat and we said what's
something that we can just talk about having had so much
experience and literally just have a conversation about it
Because this is more conversational being.
Yeah. And we thought behaviour was
such a good one. Because we've had a lot of
feedback previously when we've mentioned behaviour just in
passing, maybe at the end of an episode or something.
And someone basically saying, ohh, you know, we love your
approach to it and things like that.
Because there's a lot of debate at the minute and there's just
this idea with behaviour and maybe we can talk about our own
experiences. But there's definitely this idea
that's floating around, very popular, that behaviour is
getting a lot worse, parental engagement is getting a lot
further away and maybe the onus is being placed much more now
onto the teacher rather than the person or the child, you know,
exhibiting those behaviours. And there's a lot of reasons for
that, but just in general with behaviour.
We talked about our mindset of positivity and yeah, and and and
it being key. But if you could distil your
behaviour into like a simple few sentences maybe.
I know you struggle with my behaviour.
No. Your behaviour, Your your
attitude towards behaviour. Yeah, what would you say?
I hate the word non-negotiable because there's a whole debate
around things that's in my expectations on the kids.
Yeah, and you're like, cool. This is exactly what I expect.
I give you this, I'll give you that.
But what I expect from you is this just I honestly one word
just like just mute No2 words mutual.
Respect. One word I was gonna say.
Respect. And I was like, actually, no, I
specifically mean respect. I respect you.
You respect me. Does that work when they ask you
to turn around and check your in your head?
No. That's just bullying me.
Thanks for reminding me. I don't know.
I was probably more to it. I'm pick it.
But realistically that's what it always boils down to for me.
It's like we're all different. And I've said to children
before, I've had a I've had a boy in my class once who was
just just swore a lot. Just classic.
Like people have different backgrounds.
I don't care. Personally, I always go back to
like me on a personal level, like I don't really care.
Outside of the job, outside of the job, like as a person, as a
person, as a human being. I'm not.
I don't really care if someone says a word that we've decided
is offensive like the to whatever, like people would use
it all the. Time the F word.
I mean, for you. Let's go all the way through the
alphabet. Yeah, exactly.
Like, I swear a lot outside of outside of my job in this.
Podcast very quickly though. We've had meetings before
through business and stuff, and maybe it's someone we've had a
meeting with a couple of times or, but sometimes maybe it's a
tutor we're talking to and stuff.
And although we know them and stuff, I feel uncomfortable when
you sweat. Do you?
Yeah, just because I just think. Like what we're talking about
now basically I'm ohh they. It's not that I care, but I'm
like ohh in this setting they might care.
Yeah, think of us differently because of your, I guess.
I guess I just, I don't know. In the moment I think I'm
comfortable. If I'm swearing, it's usually
cuz I'm comfortable and I'm also usually like subliminally quite
certain that they're not or or I don't care.
Yeah, if they judge me, I'm like, well, it's a relevant.
This is my choice of language. Equally I'm in the same
situation. I'm like, are we there?
Yeah, maybe some. Yeah, sure, just a bit quicker.
But I've had a kid before who swears a lot and some people
might be like very unacceptable, like Oh my God, go crazy.
And I just took the kid to the side and I just explained I.
Was like bellowed out. I'm tired of it outside.
Yeah. I just very like calmly cause I
don't really care. Yeah.
And I didn't want him to just
completely disengage with me as a human immediately because I
don't speak like him and and I'm pretending not to be like him.
I'm not even being truthful. I'm just lying.
Like, yes, I don't speak like this.
Absolutely. Course I.
I don't even speak like this. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. And I just said to him, look,
this is how it works in the school.
I was like, I love swearing. That's how I said it.
And I was like, this is risky. If someone else heard me say
that, they might be like. But it's the same thing only
because of the preconception. Effectively.
Is that wrong to say? No, I surely not.
This kid got it. Like, maybe I wouldn't say it to
someone a bit younger. Yeah, but I just said I love
saying and but this is the situation.
I don't swear here and here's why and here's why you need to
not do it as well. This is the stigma that you're
going to get. This is the reactions people
have to just not worth it. It's just language.
So you've gotta understand that and genuinely, honestly,
honestly, didn't swear again. And I was like, oh, that was
easy. He's been told off for three
years. Was shouting as well.
He didn't swear again maybe like once or twice in the playground
slipped out, but generally in the classroom just didn't
happen. I was like, cool, there we go.
Didn't ruin my relationship with it.
And it's just, I don't know, I just try and get that mutual
respect. He could see I wasn't actually
demeaning him as a human and saying what you, how you sound
and communicate is wrong. Don't do it.
I was just saying I get it. I'm like, you know, we can
connect, but maybe don't do it in here.
And you know you're going to like success stories, which is
great. But I'm wondering, I'm diving
more now into that feeling that all teachers have had.
If you're a teacher, listening to this, if you're a parent,
listening to this tenfold because from what I hear from
parents. It's even harder at home to kind
of behaviour of things. So I guess what I'm saying is,
you know, we've been a teachers for a long time now and we've
gone through enough cohorts, enough classes to understand
that the way I feel towards behaviour management isn't
consistent. And what I mean is so my
attitudes are and what I expect are my expectations.
I always think of having clear rules, as few rules as possible,
but that are really important and you adhere to and everyone
sticks to. But I've had enough reactions.
From the ways of doing stuff to understand that there's more to
it. OK, what do you mean?
So I I don't think, again, people feel free to discrete
talk to me, tell me if there's a way to do this right.
Yeah, but I don't think there is one set way to do something in
terms of behaviour where you're gonna catch everyone in the net.
Yeah, sure. And I think from year to year
you will have different children, different needs,
different kind of they behave differently.
That's not a constant you're in control of.
That's not something you can, you know, that's a variable.
That's something that is out of your control.
So the way you do things might hit 95% of your class one year
and it's breezy. And you think I'm the best
teacher in the world that have management.
And guess what, guys, it's me because I did this and someone
asked you, how did you do it? Well, I just built a
relationship with them and I just had three simple rules and
they all did it. And I think that we've been
through the mill enough to know that that can be really
disheartening to hear when you feel like you're doing the same
thing but not get the same outcome.
Yeah. And I don't think it's, it's the
same thing. I don't think it's down to you
and those outcomes because I can do the same thing the year after
and really struggle. Yeah, I I've had exactly that.
So I have had both ends of the spectrum.
Like right now the class I have this year are really nice.
They are on that level where it's like, yeah, I can just take
these three things. They all immediately do and we
have a great time. Honestly, that's just the level
of people come to you. How do?
You do it. Yeah, I know.
As if it's me. It's not remotely me.
They're in Year 6. None of my input has got them to
this this point After 10 days anyway.
Yeah, 10 days. Not after me being constantly
having taken the Mick out of you.
But that's also the reason that I can do that.
Whereas I've had classes before, like cohorts I've taught in the
past, where I absolutely, absolutely cannot treat them in
the same way that I'm already treating these kids.
It doesn't work. And it would.
You would get nothing done. Everyone would get stressed.
I'd be constantly crossed other kids to be angry at the
behaviour, like the culture in that cohort is different.
And again, it had nothing to do with my actual input.
Like the reason their behaviour was like that and I would go as
far as arguing that it didn't have much.
There wasn't much impact from the previous teachers as well.
Like I don't think we should. We could go back and pinpoint
like ohh, there's the teacher that messed it all up.
Yeah of course. They're the two teachers that
then back-to-back. They complete all those children
can't behave now because of them too.
It doesn't work like that. I do think you can have a little
impact. You can, but I don't think it's
much, honestly. Think of it this way.
If you were just joking constantly, there were no
repercussions. There were no clear
expectations. Those are the basic building
blocks where if you're not doing that, then focus on that.
I think there's a lot of teachers out there who are doing
those things and I felt like this in the last couple of
years, numerous times where I'm like, am I actually bad at
behaviour management? Yeah, because I've always
thought since, you know, since my early days, that was one of
my strengths. I've always thought that.
I just think I do think naturally as a man, I do think
there is that just 10% that you start off a bit higher on
because your voice naturally cuts through and stuff like
that. I do think we have those natural
kind of benefits, benefits just from the off without doing any
kind of, you know, actual putting things in place.
But yeah, I just think, I don't know.
I've had those moments where I'm like really experienced and
stuff worked before. And then I've had those
interactions with children where I'm like, nothing's working and
I'm just getting annoyed and I think with less experience.
You look at that and you go, it's me, what can I do?
And as a teacher, you're always going to ask yourself, because
it's your. Job and you blame yourself.
I have this mantra as well. I remember one of the Tas I
worked with always reminded me of it.
And I was like, that is important when I was like an
input. And it was If the children don't
understand something, hmm, it's my problem.
You know, If they, if they don't get something, it there's no
good being annoyed at them. If they don't get it, then it's
my job. Yeah, literally my job to find a
different way to try and. Do you tell?
Do you sell that to the kids? Yes, because I see you better.
It's just better. It's like I said to him this
week when I was setting expectations.
I said I promise you all and I looked at them and I promise you
that if you do not understand something and you have tried to,
I will never. I know.
I said to him, do you think I will ever get annoyed or tell
you what if that's the case and they were like, no, no, no, of
course I won't. I will never ever do that.
But what do you think I'm going to do if you don't understand
how to do something but you weren't paying attention or you
haven't even tried it or you haven't even put pen to paper or
you show me. You've shown me a choice where
you haven't given it a go. And they were like, ohh, yeah,
of course. And I'm like, that's when we're
gonna have a conversation. Because we boil it down to the
rules where you always have to try your best.
You always have to respect other people.
And that comes in with listening when they're talking.
And. And that's almost it.
Yeah. Because if you get out of your
seat, I'm like, you're not respecting me.
Hmm. You're not respecting the
person. Next you've been put off.
Now you guys see. Yeah, you're shouting out,
respecting everyone else's time. Someone's talking and you're not
listening, not respecting them. You can almost encompass
everything in these really basic rules.
And we had a message from Kyle, Kyle, one of the people listen
to the podcast. Really nice guy.
Just basically saying he was listening to our podcast about
Simple Rules, and he put a picture of his three rules up
there. Hmm, you can't go wrong because
you just point to it. And I was like, he's gonna have
a good year because he's just very clear.
And you know, as long as your rules cover everything, such an
impact. And yeah, I think understanding
that even with this attitude and clear expectations, high
expectations, you're gonna get some children who make wrong
choices. Yeah, of course and and I'm, I'm
wondering your your ideas here just going into the meta.
Now. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, there's a lot of people, myself included, a lot
of the time. Yeah, who like to look for.
There's a reason it's not an excuse.
The reason It's a reason this person's misbehaving.
What's your opinion on that attitude of there's always a
reason there's not, not always just a, you know, goes right.
There is always a reason, but the reason isn't always an
excuse. I think that's the way I see it.
OK, so can it be you're saying the reason can be an?
Excuse the the reason. The reason can be the reason can
be they wanted to annoy you. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
And it's like, cool, it's not an acceptable reason.
But I don't like the excuse culture that happened.
I don't know. I don't know if it's, you know,
you earlier on you said about how maybe the culture over time,
like there's a bit of stigma or a stereotype that that parenting
is becoming more like lenient. And it's the teachers problem.
It's teachers fault the kid before.
The kid? Yeah.
And it used to be more You listen to the parents, listen to
the teacher, and then they believe the teacher.
I don't know if that's true. No, I don't either, because I
haven't talked long enough. I think it's been exactly the
same the entire time I've been teaching and again, I feel like
I've the vast majority of parents then, absolutely
fantastic. Yeah, yeah.
And I think it's very easy to latch onto the few.
Yeah, a couple and and and like because the end of the day
parents are just people. Yeah.
I'm who are we kidding if we think every single person.
It's lovely and polite. Of course they're not.
Some of those people are gonna be parents sometimes.
Like of course I've had a few fallings out, but overall like
on the whole, 99% lovely interactions with but going back
to like reasons and excuses I don't like and it really grinds
my gears when very very very obvious behaviour like bad
behaviour that is just. For the sake of like arrogance
or being obnoxious or just being rude because those children
haven't been taught manners. When they get excused for staff,
it angers me to my soul because as a professional, I always feel
that horrible burden of I better not annoy the parent or the
person who's challenging me on this.
Because, you know, I don't want to complain about me or
something like that. And I hate that because it
always puts me in an awkward position.
But at the end of the day, if someone come up to me and
saying, well, my child got told off for this today, they weren't
doing that. Oh, I hate it.
I'm like, oh, sorry, sorry, yeah, no, my eyes, the thing I
saw, are relevant because your child has told you.
Happened before. So ignore everything I said that
I saw. Let's go with your account,
which is based on your child's account.
Like, what are you? And I find that so rude, So
rude. And that's a little bit
different. Mining.
Undermining. Yeah, I don't.
I wanna make it clear, though, that's not the same as like a
situation where something happened and I'm already going
off secondary information from different kids accounts.
Yeah. And then maybe the parents just
chipping in saying actually there's a bit of history here.
Maybe this has happened in this session.
That's just helpful. That's helping the
investigation. I don't mind that.
So yeah, back to your original question, I think.
Everything has a reason. I just don't think they're
always acceptable. Devil's advocate here because I
I agree. I think I think what what's
happened is, and again correct me wrong, people who have been
teaching a lot longer than we have back in the day.
Yeah, it would be that the teacher said something that was
unquestionable. Clearly some teachers took
advantage of that. We're talking about a time when
you could throw a rubber a kids face like I'm joking.
Cheers as well, like you could get the cane right because the
teacher didn't quite like the look of you everyone.
Everyone's Nan and Grandad got a story and they hate school.
Yeah, so clearly that's horrendous.
Yeah, it's it's shifting. So there's a, it's a fact that
it's shifting towards more, you know, I wanna say restorative.
A big thing at the minute. Yeah.
Schools having restorative things.
It's not just punishment, punishment, wrong, bad
punishment, wrong bad punishment.
It's wrong, bad understanding. Yeah, that's obviously a good
thing. Again, I'm talking very
specifically about, you know, you said it's not the child's.
You know, child might not been taught manners.
Yeah, and they're just being rude.
Hmm. Is that the child's fault that
they've chosen then not to do something if they need to be
taught like like we're teaching them the line.
Yeah. You know, in the same way that
you're, you know, do do we go down that route or should we go
down that route of, well, they've not been taught, OK,
look, nurture, help, No one's ever going to say that's a bad
thing. But there is obviously a line
when someone has been taught here.
We've been. I've been that kid.
You've been that kid at school who did something simply because
they wanted to. And it was funny to break the
rule. Yeah.
Well, it wasn't because of something at home that morning.
Yeah. It was because you went in and
you chose chaos. Yeah, I I exclusively from
exclusively from about the age of 10 I'd say cuz I was really
good before that. From the age of 10 until I left
school, the only thing that mattered to me was making my
friends laugh at any expense. That's in and you still fail.
Yeah, didn't do that. Is that 50 years practise?
But it was. It was, though, like.
And I'm not saying I wasn't like, the proper horrible Kimi
was definitely rude. I looked back and I cringe at
some of my memories of, like, things I said to teachers.
But imagine what you chose in that day.
You just wanted to make mates laugh.
Yeah, right. There's that.
The memes right now of the naughty kid who managed to leave
less and get chips. And it's like because that whole
restorative thing of you know, we come out of lesson, you've
been completely rude and horrible.
You've you've like and I'm like. Jokes aside now there's massive
huge rising rates of children abusing teachers, especially
secondary school. And they do that and they get
taken out, Arm around them, have some crisps, go for a walk.
And it's like, let's not pretend there's not a line because
there's some people out there who will jump down your throat
if you say we should be doing that.
Yeah. No, no, no.
Everyone, everyone. There's a reason for every
single behaviour. Hmm.
We treat them beautifully. Nice, restorative.
All good. There's a place for restorative.
But if someone's choosing to be a little bugger, sometimes they
need to be told and punished. Yeah, and don't do that.
Don't do that. No, that's unacceptable.
You do it again. Cool.
You're gonna lose this. You're gonna lose that.
Yeah, well, you're not gonna get crisps and ice cream.
That's more reflective of real society in my opinion.
I think, like, you know, good countries around the world have
really good restorative like prisons and things.
Netherlands, I think have. Really good, yeah.
You know, the Nordic, that kind of area in general is always
quite quoted, isn't it? I think the success probably
comes from the fact that you're still punished.
There's a law and you are punished for it, like you're
going to prison, but you are also given the opportunity to
restore yourself rather than just being labelled as you're
just nothing now. You're worthless.
Well done. You've messed up your whole
life. You're nothing that happens in
this country like that is the prison system in this country.
There are. So the the rate of reoffenders
is huge. Hmm.
Restorative help is so good. Yeah.
It's so good. Yeah.
But we we we can't just pretend that there are not some children
out there who don't just misbehave because they want to,
you know? It's.
As a cultural impact, I'm thinking about school now.
I think even though you send it with, it said it was a meme,
like the impact it would have on a child who's really trying to
behave in a class seeing one of their peers.
Who's just done something vile in the classroom then having
some sort of treat within even like a week.
Yeah honestly I'd be if I was that kid as someone who's quite
switched on to that sort of thing would be like that's
completely unjustified. Like that kid just threw a chair
at a teacher and now they're having they're going like a
special ice cream treat with this like behavioural unit.
What on earth? What I'd be like why are they
getting that? I would understand it as good
and sometimes kids don't understand it and there is a
bit, there is a wider thing there and it's like you don't
understand it, but this is still the best decision.
I do think there are situations like that, and I'm not saying
restorative is bad. No, never mind, but but but
there, there just has to be common sense.
If you're doing solely restorative and someone doing
that is on the same level as someone who maybe is going
through something at home, who maybe has some kind of
diagnosis, some kind of need, we can't group these things
together and we can't pretend that the same.
And we can't just say it's only ever because of a reason that's
justified. It's not.
They need to sometimes learn. And there's this, my favourite
thing, amazing teacher we work with who is fantastic for
children with certain needs. Yeah, always, always says that
the world isn't going to change, that the wider world isn't going
to change. And what she means by that is
simply these children, no matter what, no matter if they're a
diagnosis of ADHD, maybe ASD, we give them all the help and
support they need, but they need to learn that in the real world
there are rules and there are consequences and they still
apply and they still apply. You know, there are things we
can put in place to support, but you know, there are things we
have to expect from everyone. Yeah.
And I think sometimes the idea of that restorative justice in
schools is we have, you know, we have these really high
expectations. Everyone's gonna be brilliant.
Ohh my gosh, we have this mantra.
Everyone's, you know, attitude towards it and just teach the
Staffs all on the same level and if you break it.
Yeah, OK. I agree.
I'll make two points. Cause one point I wanted to make
the whole way through and I was eventually getting to it because
I don't, I don't want anyone to think that I don't like
restorative Yes. I'm actually more profit yes
than anything. But the thing I hate and I just
don't know schools that do this right.
I don't like overarching behaviour policies like as in
really simple ones as in like where the whole thing is we do
restorative here and that's it. Or we have this particular
thing, and this is the only system we use for everyone
because it goes back to that thing you said right at the
start of. Yeah, but you're never gonna
catch 100% of children that. Do you know what that policy
might apply. You might get the best one, and
it applies to 96% of your kids. Hmm.
But there's still 4% the kids where that policy is rubbish for
them and it's never gonna help them.
Can I come in? I mean, cause cause case in
point of nearly every single primary school in the country.
Nearly every single primary school in the country.
Think of the system you have in school for behaviour.
Yeah? What percentage of children
actually go through that formality of that system?
And what I mean is, whatever it is, whether it's warning, going
to this room, having this punishment, whatever it is,
detention, whatever you do, yeah, whatever the system is.
What percentage of your kids actually make their way through
that step by step of the paving system?
Less than 10%. Hmm.
The vast majority of children, just the fact that it exists and
they know that they have to behave a certain way is enough.
Yeah. So if we're talking a small
percentage of children actually making their way through this
process, yeah, if there are repeat offenders constantly
doing the same thing, then we can go into those root causes,
can't we? But that's when we can step in
and help those 4% who clearly this isn't working for.
But for the majority, just having something in place, it's
going to catch them then, you know, then dive in, then look
for the reasons, OK. And if it is just that the kids
being annoying because they want to be funny, yeah, we can sort
it in some way. If it's because they have a
diagnosis, we can sort it in that way.
Yeah, because of this or that. We then need the specific range,
but resources. And yeah, just in the individual
case, there's no resources in school.
That's why it's so hard. That's why you need an
overarching thing, because it's just a simple.
Policy anyway to stay with it? I'm sorry, I can't go into this
case because I've got 17 kids so I need to do 1000.
Who comes? To school, yeah, it's it's just
unmanageable. So that's why we step into that.
I just realised I'm going into my like gawping thinking face.
Ohh yeah yeah we're. Gonna so thanks thanks for you
know taking the Academy everyone.
I'm aware of it now. I am listening.
I'm just going into when I go into deep thought I my face just
goes. I'm just thinking about you
saying I'm like I am listening. What I'm saying is so boring,
boring. So if you had to you know,
summarise your your, your kind of top tips are behaving them.
Because I always think about teachers listening to this,
because I know for a fact we have a whole bunch of teachers
who like less than three years experience who are watching
this. And we've got between us nearly
20 years now. Yeah, we've talked about how
don't beat yourself up too much if you're doing the basics and
you're doing them consistently and there's still some problems,
it is out of your hands sometimes.
Whatever reason it could be, whether it's the child's fault,
whether it's their conditions fault, whatever it is, don't
beat yourself up, because I've done that plenty of times and I
know I'm following policies and doing things.
So what would be your top tips then?
To those people You say, OK, you're struggling with behaviour
or you think you're worried about it, you're training and
you're thinking, how am I gonna control 30 kids?
How am I gonna stay on top of it?
What would you say to them as your top tips as someone who's
more experienced? OK, so.
Whatever your blanket rules are cause we've already said there
are going to be some things where it's just like this is
just a non negotiable. You just don't shout out when
I'm talking. I don't care.
I don't care what your reason is.
OK, maybe you've got ADHD. OK, you still don't shout out
when I'm talking because it's a choice.
It might be a bit harder for you, and we can put some
restorative processes in to help you as an individual get around
that thing, but that's the thing.
And you might not be punished, like you might not be literally
punished harshly because you do all the time that, like you
said, restorative can come into play.
I want to justify that because I don't want anyone to think that
we're punished. Thinking of advocating punishing
people who literally have a disadvantage, A disadvantage and
this. Of course not, but but they.
But what the message? They shouldn't get is it's
because you've got this thing then.
Therefore you don't have to follow this simple rule.
It's just you gotta follow this simple rule.
It might be a bit harder for you.
Here are some things to help you.
Exactly. That's how it should be so.
But whatever. Those rules are consistent, be
consistent. And it's so much harder to do
than it is to say genuinely so true.
So hard I struggle now. To be consistent, parents do
have one child. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah. Like, seriously, if any parents
are listening, how hard is it to be?
System of your kid in terms of like the boundaries,
expectations or to get in. Right.
Do you cave? Because you do.
Right? Now imagine having 32 of them 8
hours a day. Not that many, but six hours a
day. Whatever, by the way, trying to
make them do work that sometimes they just don't.
Wanna do? Yeah, it's hard.
So don't make your rules too ridiculous.
Make them really fair for every child in your class that they
could achieve. Yeah, it might be harder for
some of them, but they can still achieve that rule, maybe with
some support and be very, very, very consistent.
Like, just stick to it. Don't start making excuses left,
right and centre. But equally, I'm going to
completely contradict myself here.
There we go. Because every child is
individual. Hmm.
And the reason I don't like blanket policies is because in
those situations. Maybe due to the reasons some
children might just need a little bit more TLC or a
different approach. That that they understand, yeah.
Whereas other children, it's like, cool.
You are just choosing to do this, to make your mate laugh.
So I'm going to tell you off, That's it.
And then you're done. That's it.
You. You'll respond to that and you
won't do it again. I don't think there's a
contradiction there. I'm gonna come in and just
clarify. It just sounded like it does a
bit. But I think your expectations
and constant from the front, delivering on the front line can
constantly be that way. I think you're talking then,
about how you react to that. Yeah, that's it.
So, like, from the point of view of the children, they have to
know it's unacceptable because otherwise they'll do it like you
said. Yeah.
You have to know some acceptable.
But then how are you gonna try and solve that?
I think that's less. It's less easy for us to give
tips at that point. Yeah, because they're so unique.
Because I've had certain children where it's just
clicked. I've tried something.
Ohh OK that's a sticker chart did actually work for you
because for whatever reason that's enough of a hook for you
to become fixated on that and want to do that and then that's
good for another child. It would just be me being
brutally honest with them. Like you said, the child who's
swearing. I might say to someone I've I've
said this before and I thought I might going too far and I've
just thought no because it's and and I've said this and I said
this to parents and parents evening.
I've said children will stop liking you Hmm.
And and I'm not and I say to I don't want that to happen.
You don't want that to happen. No one wants that to happen.
But you've got to understand the way you're behaving and treating
other people. They will stop wanting to spend
time with you and at break time it's a choice.
It's a very small time. There's a very subtle difference
between that and something that people would be like, oh, that's
terrible. And this is is really clear if
you said to a kid no one likes you, oh gosh, that's awful.
Don't do that, please. Please be careful with your
wording. But if you're explaining to them
that their actions, the consequences of their actions,
which might result in like social, it's embedded in praise.
Yeah, it's like, you know, you've got a lot of friends.
Yeah. And you're lovely.
Yeah. You're you're so, like right
now, having such a nice chat. But these choices you're making,
they're going to have a consequence.
And they are choices, aren't they?
And you talk to them. You say you chose to do this,
you could have chosen this, and you give them things they could
have done. It's always so carefully
structured. Because if we simply go up to a
child and essentially tell them they're bad, yeah, And then walk
away, that's just negative. It's negative.
It's horrible. I'm an adult.
They're a child. And I don't like you now, right?
So I think the the thing I wanna come back full circle to is we
spoke about how I expect them to behave in lessons and to learn
things and stuff like that. In the same way we teach
children how to interpret primary and secondary sources in
history. I think it's our job to teach
children how to behave. And would we ever say that every
child ends in the same way when it comes to maths?
Yeah, no, of course, of course you wouldn't.
So why are we? Why are we pretending that every
child learns in the same way that you just behave and half
the time will not even teaching them we just say do this?
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Imagine going to Mass and saying
add four. Yeah, never done it before.
Add 400. Con.
You can't do it. Detention.
Yeah, OK. Those kids can praise, praise,
praise, praise, praise. Exactly.
So I just think there's got to be a mixture of stuff.
I think the extremes on both ends are ridiculous.
So the 1970s from the rule at someone's face Don't.
Do that physical punishment horrible.
Stupid conditioning. Silly.
Yeah. Ohh.
Are are some things moving too far the other way now?
I think so, yeah. I think we've just got to fight
to keep common sense. Yeah, yeah, that's it, isn't it?
Everything's common sense. Stop blanket thinking about
anything. Just put like just individually
think about the they're they're human beings.
They have an entire life like you and all your whole
everything complex about you. They have that as well.
I think that would be my #1 tip to an ECT if someone had to say
to me you've got an ECT and you can say one thing to them.
One bit of advice, I think that encompasses enough to say to
them, treat them like this sounds so condescending.
Cause I don't. I'm not saying that everyone
doesn't do it, but I just remember being at school and
thinking, I can't believe you're not treating me like I'm human.
Yeah, yeah, treat them like individual human beings.
Yeah, and that encompasses so much.
That encompasses differentiation, that
encompasses their needs, that encompasses understanding them,
that encompasses building relationship with them.
Everything comes down to treat every single person in your room
like an individual human being. So for me that is very powerful.
And I think when I was learning to teach someone asked me cause
I cause my PC year finished and we had a meeting with my link
tutor and she had she was such a nice question because it was a
question embedded in like a bit of praise because she wasn't
someone that like she was so lovely.
I like I was so influenced by this woman, Gina Donaldson.
I don't know you're not gonna be listening, but you're you're
amazing. She will.
She's amazing, like math specialist, so good like me, my
specialist. You.
Ohh. Well, anyway she would you have
like a debrief at the end qualified.
And she's so lovely. And I always remember the
questions she asked me and the question was, what do you think
made you had such a successful year, right.
And that was just like I was like just taking.
It yes access embedded in the thank you and and but she's
asking me why as well she's like ohh that's not only did you have
a good year I wanna hear from. You.
She was talking to the person. Ohh.
Sorry, we'll come to you in a minute.
Just work. Possibly Pasty brought food, but
no, she she asked that question and I just remember saying I
think it's because I said two things.
I copied really good teachers. Yeah, which is literally, I did,
umm, Fran Pettit. Nicole Mannings.
Not Mannings anymore. But yeah, they all my two
people. I just copied them.
I was like, you're amazing. I'm gonna copy.
You did as best I could. And the other thing was I got on
with the children I I made an effort to understand them and
know them. Rather than it's a number of 32.
Yeah, they're just like data. I've got 32 individual children
in there. Yeah.
And I love the idea of being able to.
Any one of them have. I'd be by the end of the year.
I want to be able to have a 5 minute conversation with any of
them and not before and be like, I know exactly what your
interests are. You can talk to me.
I can talk to you just chilled out, have a chat.
And that's what happens now when I walk through the corridor and
one of the kids stops me. Like I've done my job.
Yeah. I've done my.
A kid came back to school today, but I thought three years ago.
Ohh. And you know what happened in
the school you saw. Yeah tall girl next to me.
Oh my God. Ohh, no, no.
Because I I didn't tell you. So the podcast exclusive.
Exclusive. Don't wait for this news.
You haven't come out yet. And I was already out.
And this girl. Yeah.
And that girl came up to me and said, excuse me, Mr. Price.
And I kind of recognised that. I don't think I taught her.
Kind of recognised and. OK.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Does Mr Stevens still work here?
And I went warms my heart and I said yeah, he does actually,
yeah. He'll be out in a minute.
And she literally turned around to her Mama now, like.
Chess. Yeah, yeah, come on.
She said that she'd come back a few times and I hadn't just.
It was just like days. Obviously we're not there.
Yeah. Ohh, I love that.
Yeah. Ohh yeah, obviously.
Thursday, Friday, yeah. She she like she she celebrated
like my team had scored a goal. Yeah, of course.
And then her mum. Ohh.
OK, wait, wait and wait for you to come out.
Nice relationship with her and her family.
So it was really nice. It was one of the COVID years,
so it was like our online year. So just a different bond, wasn't
it? Like I spoke to the parents a
lot more online. We were just chatting
differently really. Have a little chat with her and
she was just, yeah, just buzzing.
And I just, I loved that she was buzzing to see me because it
means I did what you said. I did my job properly.
She enjoyed our time. Yeah.
Because if we get a short time really together yeah.
I think one of the most power just finished with my last one
of the most powerful things I've done with behaviour once I've
developed some sort of mutual respect relationship with the
kids. Right.
And we've got a bit of trust going on is do a comparison
where I directly talk about myself but with them.
So I'm like the most powerful thing I've ever said to someone.
I've seen their face drop and they understand what I'm saying.
Or rather than just telling them off, is they've come to me upset
that they're in having a having a tiff with a friend or whatever
and they've done something. So in my head, I'm thinking,
right, you're the problem. But kids don't like to hear
that. They don't like to hear
actually, it's your fault. You started this.
You you're the one that took this too far and you did a thing
and it annoyed that, you know. And now they're annoyed at you
basically. And they come to you saying
they're annoyed at not being my friend.
And I said. You know what?
Based on what? Her?
Based on what you told me, if I was, you're the problem, yeah?
Yeah, you ever know, start everything.
Like, yeah, I love swearing and you're the problem.
No, no, I've just said I've been.
It's that, you know, you said about being brutally honest.
Well, yeah, this is brutal in the way of just like you don't
wanna. Hear it but in but in a good way
as in like in a restorative way. In a constructive way.
I've said to a few children in the past when it's the right
situation they've explained something and I've gone.
If I was your friend I would also my feelings would be hurt
right now. I wouldn't want to talk to you
right now. And they've got it because I'm
I'm someone they trust right now and they actually want me to be
their friend almost in a way and and I've said to them as an
adult. Do they are looking for advice?
I've said if I think if I was your friend, I wouldn't want to
talk to you right now because that was really mean.
And they're like, whoa, OK And adults would do the same thing.
And I've seen kids faces sort of be like.
Realised penny drops maybe. Maybe.
And there's that moment of in your life where you realise
you're not introspect ways right.
Yeah, maybe. I maybe I was actually the main
problem. I it was my fault.
And that's really important in life.
Is that what you think every time one of the podcast episodes
is? Bad.
No, Because unfortunately, maybe nothing's my fault.
I never went through that phase, so I just get to tell.
I did tell the people I'm like, God, they're lucky they got me.
And if, if that was me, I would have hated this podcast episode.
Yeah, so that's good. Jokes aside, I mean, when we're
serious with all three minutes, wanna say jokes, that's why.
Yeah, but it's absolutely true and I think.
You gotta be careful. You got me really care but but
but like you're right and I think sometimes though what is
still acceptable, some parents might find wrong.
Yeah and and and whether it's acceptable or not, you'd never
want to cross that line because you wanna work with the parent.
So you've got to just pick and choose your things and and just
make sure everything's rooted in truth, reason and help.
Like, if you're doing something to be spiteful, what are you
doing as a teacher? You're gonna get caught out.
And yeah, more for you. Genuinely.
I tried everything I tried to do.
Try to be constructive. And sometimes, yeah, the truth
hurts a little bit. Well, I'm dripping.
We're over an hour. So what we call it, well, over
an hour. I think we had one jingo in that
whole thing. Yeah guys, one edit as well
where you made a mistake. You spat on my face.
Actually, I did actually. I'm sorry about that, but I'm
thinking next week, potentially, yeah, because the man's coming
tomorrow to mention out. Ohh, I wanna know.
Although this is kind of answering the question for me,
I'm gonna go back to my room. Yeah I've enjoyed face to face.
I really wanna know what people think cause we had some feedback
and it was good. I want more.
So genuinely, yeah, face to face.
How did you find the episode and if it was worse?
Tell us, just be honest long term, cause long term if you
really like it we would, we would quite like to actually set
up a bit of a studio. Yeah with the equipment we've
got we just need a different location.
Someone I know actually just bought a new house so everyone
might have some room, I don't know.
Do you know him? No.
God, I bet he's stressed though.
Yeah, he told me, moving on the last day.
Horrible Guy, moaning mother kids.
You know you got no friends. Never tell you what, very
quickly, no matter how stressed you get as a teacher, this kids
come through the door, bang, yeah, straight back onto it.
Horrible. Horrible shooting straight.
But when they're back onto it, I forget about it.
Yeah, I really do. Like they're so funny.
I love them, yeah. So good.
I look at them, I see they, they look to me like just marking.
I see. Just like their face just blurs
into a book and I'm sort of seething thinking I've got a
mark that later every single one of you is another green.
Tick. Yeah.
Put three lessons today. Look, anyway, I did enjoy that
and I hope people found it useful not only just to think,
ohh, I'm doing a good job. Yeah, I'm doing this.
I'm doing. That and also that.
We're doing a good job. Yeah, yeah.
Please tell. Us.
How much of a good job we're doing?
But you know the people, they want to talk to me when I go to
canteen, yeah. I think it's time we go for a
shower. I'm already having a shower feel
like and and this is true. I've just looked at them.
I've got wrinkly fingers like I've been in the in the swimming
for too. Long ohh wow.
Like a prune. Your mum's going to start
thinking you got hand problems as well.
Don't tell him if it's a condition, but his hands are
like prunes and he's not been in the bath Anyway guys, listen, go
and check out our episodes as the good stuff in the past.
We have some really good guests on as well and there are some of
my favourites out. We're gonna get some more guests
on soon, which had a little bit of a break because we had so
many in such a short time. We kind of as we always do.
We get a bit obsessed. We exhausted everyone we spoke
to and it was summer. Quick people checking out
summer, You've moved house. I've got a few lined up.
Have you? Yeah.
Nice. Let's go.
That's a lie. See you later, guys.
Alright, see you later. It's a lie.
It's not really.