Hop little Bunny hop, hop, hop, hop, little Bunny hop hop.
Ohh, sorry within the podcast not singing to our children the
same nursery around for the 57th time of the day.
Right, right, right. Look, we recording, recording.
Hello guys. Welcome back to another episode
of Teach sleep. Repeat.
My name is Hop. My name is Little Bunny.
Oh my gosh, it's infiltrated on mine.
It's Easter. I know, I know, It's like the
only time of the year where it's now acceptable to sing that song
because I've been singing that about you for about 6 months.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah, Rory starts bouncing
before it's even, but nothing's on.
And they'll just start looking at me like bouncing.
I was like, do you want hot Little Bunny to play?
And they'll be like, yes. So I put it on Spotify and we
hop Little Bunny, hop up, up. And then the bunnies sleep.
Yeah. And he goes on the floor.
How many head down? How many times do you listen to
it before you start crying? What's the order of cut off?
Because mine's about. Three.
I think initially it was about 3 and then I got over it because I
got to like 57 and I was like, I'm just a robot now, no.
It's your favourite. I'm just a robot.
It's it reminds you of that severance.
Yeah, yeah. So Oh my God, it's so good.
So good. Like, I know we're not, I know
we're a teaching podcast, but let's just digress for a second
because if you haven't watched Severance, it's probably my
favourite show since early Game of Thrones.
Wow. That's big.
That's big, yeah. Genuinely I I love the concept.
I yeah, actually I enjoyed it. A.
Lot so so we explain the concept very quickly for anyone who
hasn't watched it. The concept is severance is like
this procedure you can get and it's it's basically a a
commentary about like the corporate world and how
horrendous it is. And you can choose to go to this
company called Lumen and get the severance procedure, which
essentially splits your brain in half so you don't split in half.
Your physical body is the same at all times, but you walk into
work, get into an elevator, and as you move to what's called the
severance floor where you do your work, you flip.
So your brain flips consciousness to your new
consciousness you've created to do your work.
So the point being you've you've essentially created a new being,
a new soul is the whole like, idea of the show.
Yeah. It's like, how much, how much
rights do these new people have? But the horrendous thing when
you actually think about it is from the point of view of the
person on the outside, it's great because you go to work in
the morning and then from your point of view, you go in the
elevator and you immediately step out of the elevator after
doing your day of work. So you don't think about work. 8
hours has just passed. And for you, it's immediate.
So yeah, you might lose some of your life, but you're at work
and you hate work, so why would you not just cut your brain off?
But then on the flip side, the person you've created inside,
who is still you, but a different consciousness, who
doesn't have any idea of what's going on, they only ever exist
in work. So they walk out the elevator to
do their work, finish their day of work, go to the elevator, and
immediately come back out again for the next day of work.
Yeah, they don't get to sleep. No, they they literally only
exist in work mode. It's a really, really cool show.
It's on Apple TV, so yeah, if you haven't watched it already,
like definitely watch it. Yeah.
Can you, Can you imagine? Can you imagine it for teacher?
Would you do it? Would you do it?
Well, having watched the show, I feel like I feel bad for my
inner self. Yeah, doing only work.
Yeah, imagine that. Imagine.
Oh my God.
I mean, some teachers do this. Imagine.
Imagine defining your entire life only by teaching.
Imagine like every single waking minute in your.
Existence. Wait, what?
You don't just go home, sleep and come back.
Maybe I am 7. Yeah, sleep is your severance.
You're having a great time, but you sleep.
Yeah. Oh, no, I, I don't.
I don't think I could do. That no, no, I just.
I couldn't do it. It would be hell for the for the
inside me who doesn't get a break you imagine.
Like, Oh my God, it's kind of you're so over stimulated.
I just need to just need to decompress and just stepping out
the door and then being back with the kids.
Go, Sir, Sir, Sir. Oh my God.
I did this last night. It is last night.
I can't believe. It ohh God yeah, that's nasty.
It's nice, well worth a watch though.
It's one of those things where you can get a 7 day free trial
to Apple TV, get it in at a point now in half term, which
we're in, yeah, where you know, you can binge.
It exactly what I did by the way, did I?
Did I tell you that I did actually manage to watch season
1 and two in the seven? That's incredible.
That's 20. In term time I was staying up so
late like I have to watch. This.
So you did 20 hours of TV? Yeah, well, not in a week.
Some. Of them are like 30 minutes.
Long they're. Different.
They're about 30 to 50 minutes. And then there's like the odd
one that's like. An hour The finale was like an
hour finale was like a. Feature like films like it was
so long, Yeah. It's unbelievable.
Yeah. So yeah, watch it.
Watch it. Yeah, that's for sure.
Yeah, definitely watch Severance.
Anyway, other than that, all good this week, yeah.
I'm a bit scarred still. Yeah, two point O.
Yeah, yeah. Go on.
Yeah, people might have not listened, I don't know.
But a few weeks ago we mentioned how Hayden has had his bathroom
done, Didn't put a lock on his bathroom door.
You can all wonder what might happen when a bathroom door
doesn't have a lock on it. I accidentally walked in on his
girlfriend on the toilet, so I'll get back.
Might ran out quick. I was laughing about it.
That's funny. And that was.
Just before we recorded that podcast.
Episode. Yeah, I remember because I was
like ghostly, like, oh gosh, done can believe it.
This morning you went to the toilet famously, you can take up
to half an hour. So I was like, cool, we'll we'll
do the podcast later on. I guess I'll just sit here and
wait for them to finish on the toilet is.
What they here for isn't. It this is a.
Revelling in this. So I heard someone footsteps on
the landing and someone going downstairs.
I was like, OK, that's Hayden. He's gone to get a drink or
something. We're ready to do that.
I'll just go and blow my nose quickly.
So I went out, open the door. There you are, sat in the
toilet, bum out and everything. Just sat there having a boot.
Yeah, well, you. I should hope so.
If you're going to the toilet, be waiting if your bum wasn't.
Out, I'm out suggests that like it was facing you.
You think I'm going to the toilet?
No, you just you could see the side of your bum.
Hello. You're so calm.
And I was like, so that's 2 for two, and your daughter's an
infant who constantly poos and gets a nappy change.
Yeah. So I've now seen all three of.
You have a poo poo in this house.
Yeah, literally. That's that's an achievement, I
think. I think so.
I think that's like a level of of closeness that you don't
really get of many people. Yeah, that most people don't
want. No, I don't.
Most people wouldn't want. Most people don't even think
about as a thing. No, no, well, you don't go to
the I never even thought about who I've seen to go to The Who
have you seen go to the toilet listeners?
Just think now because I bet the only only people you're close to
really have you seen go to the toilet.
Has it ever happened at work where someones not locked the
door? Because I've had it a couple of
times. Not me where I've I've gotten
into the toilet and someone else is in there I've forgot to lock
the door. What?
On the toilet. Yeah, adults, like, no, yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh my God.
But a couple of times in my career, and obviously it's
mortifyingly embarrassing for that person, isn't it?
I'm just you walking in. Yeah.
I just feel awkward, 'cause I'm like, crikey, I walked in my
toilet. God, no, Never.
I felt like I was quite. I thought that would be quite
normal. I just forget to lock the door.
Is that why you still haven't got a locker in your bathroom
door? You're like that's quite normal.
It's quite normal. Come in, come in.
What do the podcast on the new come on, come in, guys should do
that. No, absolutely not never ever,
ever, ever. So this week very common in the
well, I say this week, what would be last week, the last
week of term before Easter is very common for a parents
evening and we had our parents evening.
How did you find it? Like what what your initial
reactions. Let's talk, parents.
Evening. I had the probably the most like
straightforward positive parents of nothing I've ever had I.
Think you might have said that last time as.
Well, did I? Well, maybe I've had a few in a
but they say this is the same same cohort, same year, but
like, I don't know if I feel like every year like there's at
least one maybe like a slightly difficult conversation.
Honest, honestly, I had a blast. It was like I just, everyone was
so nice. I didn't have any troubles at
all. There was no conversation that
made me think a bit like, oh, I've got to prepare for this.
I've got to deliver some bad news.
It was just fine. I had a really nice time.
How nice is it when you know you can just sit there for 10
minutes and essentially big up their child and how well they've
done that? I see that as my role at Parents
Evening because to be honest with you, if I think about
anything negative that I've got to say, it's so rare that the
first time I'm ever going to say that is when we're at Parents
Evening sat in front of the of the parents.
Because I think it, it does. I don't like using this word
because there are probably some instances where it's fine, but
it does feel a bit unprofessional that it would
feel from the parents point of view that you've waited three
months to mention something that's quite important.
Well, if I, if I put in put yourself in their shoes, if I
was going to parents evening with River and they were like,
Oh yeah, she's been she's been a nightmare all year.
And I and I and they hadn't told me at any point that her
behaviour was bad. I would be like, oh, like could
you have told me that sort of anytime before now so I could
maybe have helped that. Are you giving me a description
of what's happening or are we going to talk about how we can
fix it? Because it sounds as if you're
just saying she's a nightmare and.
Yeah, and you haven't talked about it.
Try and fix it. Yeah, I agree.
Our head teachers quite like that as well, as he always says,
you know, no surprises. Apparently if you've got
something you know there's something that's unbelievably,
urgently negative to say, then you probably should have
addressed it. At some point, and if you
haven't do it the week before, you know what I mean?
Like if you haven't just saved beforehand, just have that semi
difficult conversation because the last thing you want in a
timed zone where you've got 10 minutes per parent is to lay
something down and the parents are like, well let's try and
sort this out then. Yeah, sure.
Not now though. By 10 minutes is up, got the
next person waiting. It's just not the environment
for that. It's the environment for quick
catch UPS, positive reinforcement, yeah, yeah.
And a couple of next steps that are actionable and easy.
And then it's, it's not the environment for oh gosh, this
thing's completely unhinged by. Yeah, agree.
How was your time keeping this time?
I pride myself on parents evening time keeping and I I
know I shouldn't because it's like you can't control it
sometimes and parents just won't go or something like that.
But I really, really, really pride myself on in later on in
my career, especially being wrapping things up and being
able to sense times coming to an end, sense a parent might not
actually naturally just go and be like, OK, so yeah, overall
really, really good. Like, I just want them to carry
on doing what they're doing and we'll keep doing our job.
Nice one, my job share is really good at using body language like
I'm always really impressed. Just stands up, walks out.
Yeah. No, no.
But she does, it's so impressive.
I look at her sometimes I'm like, I know what you're doing.
Like she I said, yeah, it's brilliant.
So yeah. And she'll start moving.
Yeah, start getting up. Like, yeah, absolutely
fantastic. And just that like that movement
of like starting to get up, it's just a signal to everyone's
subconsciously is, oh, this is finishing now and everyone
starts getting up while still talking.
It's like before you realise it, we're all standing up and it's
like, oh, you're leaving now. And I'm always like always
really impressive how you use body language to do that.
Do you still use a timer? Because you tend, you said in
the past you've had like a little timer.
Yeah, no, I just use the clock now because every 10 minutes,
right. So I just, I use that clock
internally where I'm like if it's getting to 8 or 9, I'm just
like, we need to wrap it up now just to keep time.
And, and it's it's not that I don't want to carry and talk to
the parents, it's just that you don't want to have later on that
in in your parents evening someone waiting for 20.
Minutes. Yeah, it's awkward, isn't?
It but we, we, we kind of we semi overran a bit, but it was
when we were coming towards our break and the last couple just
overran and it just, it basically means at that point
you get less of a break. We got a 10 minute break and
then you get 6 hours then we reset.
So we we got there. It was fine.
But yeah, in general, I mean, I love parents, even I really, I
always, always enjoy parents Evening.
I think what I will say is, and I'm going to bring this up again
because I think we brought this up last time, I don't know what
the best way to do parenting is. Like how do you effectively talk
to that many parents as maybe when you sometimes teach English
and master different children as well as your class of 30
children? What's the best way of doing it?
Do you do it in one swoop where you're there until 9, half, nine
in the evening and just you get it done in one day?
Do you spread it out and have later evenings that don't go
quite as late but for a few days?
Do you close school for half a day and then start at like 1:00
and just see where that takes you?
I don't know. And I I just think it's one of
those things where you could just have to suck it up and bear
it for a couple of times a year. I don't know if there's a good
way of doing it. I think, I think it is kind of
absurd the idea that that schools, our school does this
and then we, our star, our star voted for it.
So it's like whatever, but working till like 99 PM like
that. So our parents evening is at the
end of a full school day from 3:30 until 9:00.
And luckily, fortunately for us, it's on Thursday.
And we we're because we have job share, we're part time.
We're not in on in the day on Thursday anyway.
So for us it's just going in parents evening.
But I get there, my job share, she's finished a whole day of
work and she's exhausted. I got there yesterday and my
team honestly were knackered. Like I looked them all and they
were like they were all just like, I can't I can't fathom the
idea that I've now do another six hours of like think of a
hence work, the talking parents as well on top of that whole
school day. So I don't think I don't think
that's the best way of doing it. In all honesty.
I think there has to be a token from the school to be like, it
starts at 1:00. Sure, OK, not every parent can
get in. I get it.
The whole point is most people work because they can't get in.
But some can because I've been at schools where it happens and
there's always parents there at 1:00.
They can do it and then and then then it goes on later.
But it maybe it finishes at 7 rather than 9.
I don't know, you know, and then you know, it's just a few more
hours back of your day. I think there's a middle ground
somewhere, but you do kind of have to suck it up because it's,
yeah, it's just a, it's just a challenge.
But you only do it normally twice a year.
Once a year for some schools, yeah.
So, and, and like I said, it's, it's so rare that it's
horrendous the act of doing it. Yeah, yeah, it's.
Not so, you know, it's just, it's just long.
One one thing I find really awkward, and I know you have
opinions on this as well, so I'd like to hear what you think is,
is the content in which you talk about on parents evening.
And I'd love to I please write in to us because I really want
to know how what people talk about on parents evening because
I find it a bit cringy when I spend end up spending the
majority of my time talking about very specific areas of
maths and grammar and English. She's fantastic at using the
progressive tense. But just needs to work on using
subjunctive form in her writing. I, I, I honestly die a little
bit inside. But because like we have a
system of like that's stupid. We give each other notes for
maths and English and things. And I'm like, Oh, I just, I just
don't think that any parent. And if they do a very small
minority actually care and want to hear about like the specific
like parts of, I don't know, like elements of, oh, they're,
they're doing great in place value, but they just need to,
they just work on fractions with different denominators more
knowing that you as a teacher, like you're the person doing
that. You're obviously going to do
that at school. I find it a little bit awkward
and I always think, do parents just want to hear how well their
kids are getting on, like how happy they are?
Like what? Where is the middle ground?
What do you think we should be talking about our parents?
Evening. It reminds me of when you write
a report at the end of the year and you include what clubs they
go to. Yeah, I know.
I signed up for them and I picked them up from the club.
It's like they go to, they go to football club, they do maths
everyday. Yeah, they do it.
I know that's not very helpful. They need to work on the
curriculum. I, I think there's an overlap
of, of people who you're kind of dismissing a bit when we say
this, which are the people who don't necessarily obviously
don't understand the subjunctive form and, and can't help with
that, you know, attainment, but kind of do like to hear the
teacher say, we've been doing this and they're doing it well.
And so you like what you know, if you go to the doctors, you
might not necessarily understand what your doctor's saying in
terms of, well, I measured your cortisol levels and that's all
good. The fact it's good is enough for
you to be like, oh, OK, I don't need to understand all of this,
but that's nice to hear. So we've been learning a lot
about frontal adverbials and, and expanding our sentences to
make them more detailed using conjunctions and leaving stuff
on that 10 second sentence for a parent can be enough to be like,
oh, that's, I don't understand that.
But that's good to hear. You're doing these things that I
don't necessarily understand, but my child's getting on well
with them. I think I think you have a point
where if you're sat at parents evening saying, oh, and and
yeah, little Johnny does really struggled with those
subordinating conjunctions. So if you could just do a bit of
that, that's pointless. Yeah, that's pointless.
If you say, if a doctor said to you, can you just reduce your
cortisol, you'd be like, what on earth are you talking about?
Like that's not helpful in itself.
So I think hearing that you're doing well and subject specific
language is fine. I think expecting parents to
take something in and do something about it is where we
lead to the there's definitely. A line isn't there because there
are some things they can do, like with reading.
I guess reading's the one I cringe at most because I think
it's quite easy to be like, Oh yeah, they just need to work on
their infant skills. But their their retrieval's
really good and and summarising questions that they that's
that's not parents worry about what?
No, all we need to say is right for reading from in my opinion
of like the perfect parents leaving to me would be a minute
no more on like the academic stuff of like they're sort of
working at average level in maths.
We're expected. They're doing really well.
We're work, you know, keep working on the timetables
because that'll help them get a bit better and maybe practise
some fluency at home in reading. They're slightly below average.
That's what age expected. So can you just just just
encourage them a bit more to read?
We'll do the same thing at school.
Sure. And we'll do the specific stuff
in. Yeah, yeah, we'll just, but not
sitting there being like, yeah. So in their in their test, you
know, they're scoring 24 out of 50.
You know, they needed three more marks in that test.
So maybe if they could work on sort of those inference skills,
they're doing quite well with the retrieval, but the inference
I'm not well. Yeah.
This, I don't know, just just say like, OK, this is this is
roughly where they are. They're either doing all right
or they're behind or they're significantly above in these
subjects. If they're if they're
significantly behind, that's when I'll start coming in and
being like, here's something you could maybe do about it.
But obviously, obviously we're the main body of people who are
going to do something about that.
We are the school. Yeah, And it just feels awkward.
It's it is, it is tricky. I know what you mean.
Because we're just doing our job and they're going to make
progress. I I literally answered the
question at parents, even this time of a parent said what can
we do at home? And it was that generic.
It was like, it was a nice positive, like a session where
we said getting on really well, doing the right things, it's all
good. And they said, what can we do at
home? And my answer was essentially
nothing. Like my answer was just like,
honestly, if, if, if your child cracks on doing what they're
doing, they're going to make progress.
And the reason they're going to make progress is because they're
so well-rounded as an individual.
That's the, that's the number one thing I think that we can do
at home with our kids before we send them to school is if your
child's polite, courteous, hard working, respectful, nice to be
around, happy, and that comes from home and we try and keep
that at school, that child almost always will make
progress. That child will do like what,
what no matter where they're at. They might not be a greater
depth academically, they might be a bit lower.
But if they do all of those things, I can think of so many
children over the years who've struggled a bit with their maths
or their English or their reading.
But my goodness, me across the year, they've made so much
progress because they're the loveliest kid that I've ever
met. And when it comes to parents
evening and when it comes to what we can do to our next
generation, honestly, the number one thing we can do is have
well-rounded kids with with those personality traits.
That is going to have so much more of an impact than me saying
to someone, Oh, well, you know what, they're a bit disruptive
in lessons, actually. But if you could just work on
that subjunctive form, that would be fantastic.
Now, to be honest with you, it, it's, it is the personality and
the, you know, well roundedness of the child and the happiness
of the child. And if they're having social
issues in school, that's something we can step in and fix
straight away. It's, it's that that's more
important to me because it's my job to do the academic side.
We're going to do the academic side.
That's the part that we have less control over.
That ultimately has the biggest impact on their outcomes.
Yeah, I agree. I think that's fantastic and and
just for feeling good, I guess. So like one of my last
appointments of parents evenings, this is like 8820, I
think at this point where it's at.
Dad came in of this kid and this kid in my class, I'm thinking,
oh, she is, she is the classic like if you had a class of 32 of
this child, your job will be a dream.
Like she's so lovely and just get some of everything like
academically, just completely fine.
And honestly all areas like just easy, easygoing.
And dad came in and this was refreshing to my ears because I
was sort of thinking, this is how I think and I wish everyone
was like this. He sat down and he was like,
just so you know, I and he did swear a little bit, but I always
swear on the podcast. I don't give a monkeys, I'll
replace the word. I don't really give a monkeys
about the sort of maths in English.
Like I actually don't really care at all.
He was like, the only thing I care about is how is if my
child's happy, how she's getting on, if she's polite.
Basically everything you just said there.
This parent came in and said just so you know, and he had the
he had the Gump to say that a lot of parents think it, but
they don't want to rude like professional conversation.
He was just a bit more like outgoing.
Yeah, I don't care about any of that stuff.
So please don't waste my time with it.
Can you just tell me how she is as a human being?
And basically because then because I know she'll be
learning if she's happy at school.
And I was like, I, I literally said, well, I said, well, that's
refreshing to me. And I said, OK, cool, let's
scrap these notes. Then I was like, just so you
know, she's expected across the board, pushing greater depth in
every subject. So there you go.
What else do you need to know about that?
I could sit here and read you a bunch of notes that we've
written about the specific areas that she's quite good at and the
areas that she's not good at, which funnily enough are the
ones we haven't taught yet, but I won't.
And we just had a 5 minute conversation about how nice this
child was and, and like very specific situations in school
where she's been kind. Where she's been generous, where
she's like stayed level headed in like a challenging situation.
Then we talked about her social side of her life and we really
went in depth into like her friendship and how she feels at
home about some of like some conflict that she'd have with a
friend that I didn't know about. And I was like, Oh my God, like
this is what I this is the conversation I think everyone
wants to have. Yeah, and and it becomes then
more of a conversation and less of a lecture.
So parents consultation evenings to me are the best when you are
learning things about the child from the parent and the parent
are learning things about their child from you and you come to
together to be moulding and helping the children as much as
they can. When it comes to academics,
that's one sided. That's really one sided.
That's me lecturing to you what we're doing and how you can help
that. That has its place, but it's not
particularly helpful in this in this aspect.
Do you know where that would be helpful?
When I'm talking to my partner, teacher or SLT, that's when we
can talk academics and how useful this is and how we can
move on. And the children are really
struggling with spelling. So let's have do something about
spelling. That's a conversation at parents
Evening. A conversation is the child
holistically, Yeah, that's how we're going to get the most
progress and the best impact on that child and make them happier
and. Better and it gives them a
chance in that moment then if there are challenges for that
child so they are significantly behind in something whether it's
social or academic is a chance for them then to say OK cool So
what are we all doing about it what are you doing about it as a
school OK well actually we've got them in these three
different intervention groups that are really targeted for
this thing and we're really trying We've seen a bit of
progress there that's what we've done I'm not going to sit here
and tell you all of the intricate things we've done in
that intervention. I'm just going to tell you that
we're providing support for your child What are you doing at
home? Oh, you're doing this you're
doing extra reading with them brilliant.
We've seen them impact of that in school.
This is working well this relationship because we are
raising this child almost. Like a village takes a village.
Together it is because we're spending 8 hours a day with that
man, 6 hours a day or whatever, with your child, with your child
like five days a week. And they're and they're
important to us and we care about them and, and it makes
such an impact that again, they will finish off this chat.
But on this kind of holistic view, the nicest comments we
ever get from parents, even from me as a teacher personally, are
where parents say something along the lines of, wow, you
really know my child. I've done my job so much that
makes me warm inside. You really understand my child
and you've never had it before where you say something like,
oh, and. And and I knew he'd think that
that was unfair. And I I spoke to him about it.
And the parent goes, oh, yeah, he would.
And the parents are like, yeah, you know, you know how he feels
that that is how we get you get this person.
And they're the powerful moments.
And there's where we have an impact on a move.
I think the attainment, the chats like that, I think you're
right. They go.
Do you know what they go in? Reports.
Yeah, that's what reports are for, in my opinion.
When it comes to like academic stuff, just bang it in a report.
Honestly, I don't want to sit there and awkwardly talk about 5
minutes and you know them well. Not not just when parents are
fundamentally about how well you know them.
It's when they get a little Malteser Bunny.
It's happened to me and they put it down on the desk at the end
of it and say thank you for teaching my child and I'm like
you. Straight in the mouth at 7:30.
You didn't say anything because you had a mouth full.
Yeah. Yeah, that Malteser Bunny.
So that was a that was a nice treat on the parents evening
this week. Oh man.
But yeah, it's, it's lovely. I think 10 years in the job has
helped me mould that mindset. If anyone's listening now going,
oh, I really don't never think that way or or do that you're at
a different point in your career.
Maybe because you know, there was definitely a point where I'd
sit there and be like, I'm going to write really detailed notes
about where everyone is. I've just found over the years
and maybe maybe having Rory has helped in the last couple of
years where I think to myself, if I went to my son's parents
evening, what would I truly care about?
Maybe it's a privileged position to know that I can help with
academic stuff anyway, you know what I mean?
Maybe that is true, but thank you.
But But I think I would trust the school to be covering that.
I want to know, is he happy? Yeah.
I don't want my kid to be happy. And if he's happy and courteous
and kind, do you know what will happen?
He'll sit well in his lessons, Listen to learn.
Yeah, he'll learn any. It's what will happen as a
result. Yeah, definitely.
Brilliant. I love that.
I love that chat. Let's go on to now the main
marker episode then, because something else we're really
passionate about and we do hope this comes through, is reducing
workload for teachers to make people's lives better.
OK, and and a big point there. We can look back at what we just
said. Don't spend half an hour writing
really detailed academic notes for parents evening.
Just know your kids really well. There you go.
That's saved you a bit of time. That can be your nought .5 on
this list because we've got 6 things you can actually straight
away to reduce your workload. You can do it immediately.
Let's dive into it hidden. All right, let's dive straight
into six things we think you could do straight away.
Because a big part of what we're doing on this podcast is, yeah,
calling out the crap and the rubbish and the stuff we think
is nonsense, but also trying to give actual actionable things
that you can do as well. So let's start straight away
with number one. Use your professional judgement
to question and push back policy and ideas in your school.
This is something you can do straight away.
It's not necessarily something that's easy.
Depending on your environment that you're in or your
personality, you could be someone who wants to avoid what
you see as conflict and that is completely, perfectly
acceptable. But what you have to understand
is that unless people in your school at the level of being
teachers and class teachers, etcetera, are willing to do this
with leadership, then you will be in a school that constantly
feels like they can roll out new things again and again.
And take advantage of your time as a teacher.
Well, reflect on your school right now because I've been in a
few schools that I can think differently about, right?
Are you in the kind of school where they do roll out a lot of
new things that will impact your workload, where all of the
teachers moan behind the SLTS backs and moan to each other and
then don't do anything? Or are you in a school where
people are actioning what we're saying here, which is where at
least one teacher or a couple of teachers, maybe they're the one
that, you know, it's like, oh, they're the one that's going to
say something. There's always seems to be 1
teacher, isn't there? I think there's, I think there's
two in our school. Yeah, two.
Yeah, we've got a few in our school, I think.
No, I know. Brazen School.
It's good. But, you know, it's not brazen.
It's not. I want to push back on this
again. It winds me up because I know
there will be some people who see me as, oh, that brash guy,
chatting up again, chatting back.
Yeah, because I'm a professional and these policy rollouts are
directly impacting me and the time I get to spend with my
family. Yeah.
So yes, of course I'm going to talk about it.
It's not me being bolshie. How many times have you been
fired because you had an opinion exactly?
How many times? Well, never, because of course.
Luckily as well though, I do work in a school where that I
can say these kinds of things and it's can be a professional
discussion. It can be a hard discussion.
And here's the fun thing. So do you.
You all work in a school where you're allowed to do that.
Yeah. And you're not going to get
fired for having an opinion. Genuinely.
You're allowed to push back. Like you were saying to me
earlier about we need need to get out the mindset of the the
head teacher is our head teacher from when we're at school, I
think. That's a problem.
I I'm going to talk about this very quickly because I think
that's a problem. I think that's a mindset we have
in school because we are teachers and we're in this kind
of pyramid of power, if you want to call it that way.
And we are so ingrained in traditionally thinking, no, what
the teacher says goes, and that's important for many
reasons. We then apply that to ourselves
sometimes and we think, well, what the boss says goes.
It's like, yeah, do you know what it does?
I'm, I'm not here to argue that I have a boss and I'm asked to
do things that I don't always want to do or think is helpful,
but I will do them because they've justified it in a
certain way. And you don't always have to
agree. That's not what I'm saying.
What I'm saying is though, when something is objectively mad and
is going to impact your work life balance in a contract
you've got because you're a professional employee, just
don't. Don't put yourself in the same
grounds as the kids listening to an adult telling what to do.
You are in a completely different ground.
You are a professional, you are a teacher.
So when policy is implemented that directly effects how you
teach your class and the planning you have to put in
place and the work you have to do that you as professional deem
not reasonable or not having an impact enough to justify the
time you put in. It is completely acceptable for
you and your staff to get together and say no.
We. Professionally, that's the only
thing I'll add to that. It is completely acceptable for
you to professionally kick back and, and put up a kick up a bit
of a fuss and say no, this is not suitable.
What's not acceptable is what happens a lot, which is you and
your staff. I don't know.
Then you go moan behind their back and then unprofessionally
bring it up. And I don't know, I can't think
of a really good example now of where it becomes unprofessional.
But like there are certain channels, there's certain ways
you should talk to someone professionally.
End of the day, like then they're not your parent head
teacher isn't your parent that they're not your when you were a
kid and had a head teacher and you felt like they told you off
like they were like your your parent.
That's not what they are. They're just another human being
at the kind of you know that they are working a job like you
are. They're just doing a different
managerial role. Have a professional discourse
with them. They're not going to take you
very seriously if you go there being like effing and blinded
and being and like threatening things, but you can absolutely
you're well within your rights to say, oh, me and the staff
have had a conversation. We don't think this is
appropriate. Can we have another meeting
about this soon and really discuss it?
Like there's ways to do it, but if you don't do it at all and
you and we just moan behind the scenes and then we go on to
TikTok and Instagram and then come on to like our Instagram
reels and be like and start venting on us instead.
Like, oh, you're rude. No, no, no, no, just don't be
part of the problem. Just just use your professional
judgement. Call out things that are are
terrible, have that professional discourse with your SLT and
something might change. Yeah, absolutely.
And you'll be probably surprised how often receptive, how
receptive people sometimes artists kind of thing because a
lot of the time when policy's being rolled out, it is usually
with the best of intentions. It is, it is usually because
they think it will have an impact on the children.
But you, what I'm saying here is you have a voice, you have a
professional voice that you need to use and, and, and take
advantage of because otherwise you're just another cog in the
machine that you think is broken.
Doing another thing that takes up more of your time that you
don't think is having an impact on the kids because you feel
like you have to do, you know what eventually happened?
You'll burn out and you'll leave the profession.
And there have been plenty of times where in the last few
years, I've become much more confident to do this, but I've
also been learning how to do it. There have been times where I've
brought something up in a way that I regret.
So for example, there might have been some time before in the in
the past where we've been in the staff meeting, something was
said that I might think that was rude or wrong or a bad
representation of something. And instead of me kind of, you
know, professionally going away and being like, I wasn't quite
happy with this because I think it represented that badly.
Or I think it shows us in this light that I think is wrong.
And we've been asked to do this. And I think that's just not a
good use of our time. I just bit back immediately and
I was like, oh, actually, no, that's that very fair though, is
it? That's not right.
You're wrong. Yeah, you're wrong because of
that. And, you know, and I've said
sorry for. I'm really sorry.
I don't mean to be rude at all because I don't, but I just
think it's important that we raise these things.
And again, even in that situation where I felt maybe I
went too far because I do overthink things, there were
loads of staff who said thank you for saying that because it
was exactly what I was, we. Were all thinking the same
thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's a good point. It's a good.
Point. That's it, really.
That's just #1 is be confident in your professional, your
opinion that something is wrong or won't work is genuinely as
valuable, if not more valuable than someone who's outside of
the classroom trying to implement things again and
again. Yeah, because you're in the.
Classroom. Understand that?
Yeah, back yourself. Good, good point, Dylan.
So #2 something I think you can, this is like really sort of easy
to action like right now if you wanted to is I did this years
ago by the way. So sit down and list maybe just
start of this week, the the last week you've been in school,
right? List all of the aspects of your
role, all the jobs you had to do, all of the things and tasks,
and would you. Put writing the list on the
list. Writing the list is number one
on the list. You write the list, but then
then the number 2 is thinking about writing the list.
So you go through, you literally just write down like from the
basics of like teaching maths all the way down to maybe even
at the weekend I had to re plan a lesson, right?
Just list every single thing you had to do and then prioritise
them right? In terms of what you feel.
Because remember, you're professional.
Like no one else needs to matter with this.
What you feel like was the most important job to the least
important job. Now that's quite a vague
description. I'll leave you to decide what
you think most important is, because that could be what
what's important to you at the moment might be the the outcomes
academically of children. What's important to you might be
the holistic side of the children.
There's loads of social things going on.
Whatever what's important to you might literally just be what you
think has the most impact to the least impact in terms of a task.
That's what I'd go for. I'd be thinking, what impact
does this have on the children against the time it takes me to
do that job? So that that would be something
I'd be thinking, OK, that's really important.
And it might might well be that even if a job takes 5 minutes,
it might have 0 impact on the children that would go straight.
Away yeah, it'd go right to the bottom of the list, right.
OK, so you'd be thinking about that ratio, which is a really
good way of doing it. But either way, right, whatever
you've done right, you've made you've made your list of all
these million things. Firstly, you realise how much
stuff you're doing, which might even just be enough for you to
be like, crikey, I do so much stuff in a week I mean tasks,
take the bottom 10% and honestly, honestly, scrap it.
Yeah, don't do it. Literally don't do it.
So do you mean don't do it, that's it forever?
Or are you saying don't do it and see?
Yeah, I, I OK, It's a middle ground.
You can interpret how you want. I kind of wanted to be very just
a speech. Now I'm just.
Wondering what you mean? Just a bit out there, but what I
mean is it could don't do it could mean don't do it this
week. Maybe rethink it for next week,
put on your list for next week because it's clearly not that
important. It might even be don't do it at
all and see if it makes any impact or if anyone even notices
right. The amount of things in my job
this would make me sound like a terrible teacher because people.
Value only on the. Tradition.
I was going to say people value teachers based on how many tasks
they do about this, but that honestly, I think it took me
about one year of teaching to realise that there were so many
parts parts of my job that were literally tick box exercises and
even the people telling you to do them didn't even care about
them. Oh yeah, didn't even.
Care about them? And, and I very quickly clocked
on that there were there were big aspects of my job that I
could just not take seriously in any in any way at all.
It made absolutely no impact to me, the kids or the people that
are influencing the policy. And yet everyone will take it
seriously. Are you, are you brave enough to
give me an example? Yeah.
All right then. OK, Ready.
Literally year 2 of teaching after spending a whole year
where I was told that for every single subject.
So for maths, English core subjects and all the foundation
subjects, I had to fill in this really quite intricate like
objective assessment sheet where it was like, have the kids met
this thing in this geography lesson?
Have they not met this thing in this RE lesson, whatever.
And he had to really assess it. And I finished it after the
first year realised it didn't inform anything or anyone impact
the planning, impact the children or impact my teaching.
And I was like, whoa, that was a pointless waste of my time.
We all decided we need, we need to like fill in these
assessments for some reason. And then honestly, for the next
nine years of my, I've never once I'm admitting this is this
is this going to, oh, oh, isn't he bad?
I have never once filled in an assessment like that.
This is different to like tests and, and other things that
inform my reports and, and the gap analysis and things I do.
This is different, right? These are the assessments.
Oh, yeah. You've got to fill in that grid
for, for rivers, for history on that topic.
You did. And, and don't forget to do it
also for geography for that term, so we know where the kids
were. Yeah.
What's that for? Oh, so you can tell the next the
next teacher when they when they come round to doing geography so
they can fill the gaps. Are they going to?
No. Are they going to?
Is that going to be, is it going to change their planning?
Well, no, they're using planning from last year, Right.
Or. But they should be adapting it.
Are they, though? No, no, we're all just
pretending. We're all just pretending.
It's like, OK, do I need to fill these in?
Seriously. Yes, very seriously.
Will you know if I haven't? No, all these kids, yeah, all
fine in this one because it doesn't impact or inform
anything. You're at the you're at the
point now in your career where you can, you can genuinely look
back on me like, well, my kids make good progress.
Yeah. And I've never taken this
seriously. Yeah, seriously, 10.
Years in and I'm like, Oh my God, and there's no one out
there that is making different. Honestly, it's ridiculous.
So the things like that in my career where that would be at
the bottom of my list if I had to order my list.
Now, one of the things on there might be, oh, I've got to do my,
the end of term. I've got to fill in my
assessments or whatever or collate them or whatever it is,
you know, claim assessments that goes to the bottom of my list.
And not doing it to me is I'm not going to do it seriously
because it's completely pointless, especially when
you're in year 6 because you know, where do you know where it
goes? Literally nowhere, because
there's not even the next year that I can even talk to and be
like, oh, these kids didn't do very well in history.
I think that's a huge part of primary school where we convince
ourselves something's happening or is important, but it doesn't.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like the the like you're saying
there, for example, if we do a history unit on the Romans in
year 3, Right. And I take those children up and
I've been teaching them Anglo Saxons.
OK, pure honesty here, have not remotely looked at where they
were for their year three unit on Romans.
Because because you know, it's not going to change what I'm
teaching the children. It's not going to change how I
adapt on the spot and help them. It doesn't matter to me whether
the children fully understood a very specific point in one
lesson last year. Because you know, what if if
they didn't quite understand the idea of society when it was in
the context of the Romans compared to the Bronze Age,
which they did in year 3. Do you know what's fantastic
about what we're doing this year?
We're already covering society anyway.
We're already going to look at the difference between what the
the Roman life when they left and the Anglo Saxons took over
and how it almost seemed to have gone backwards.
We're going to talk about that again to the entire class.
Whether or not they were deemed to be understanding that
societal change last year or not, it is genuinely pointless.
But again, there'll still be people listening to us say this,
going what do you we must assess everything all the time.
No, we don't. You have to.
I think everyone really deep down knows it's a farce.
And the problem is I don't even blame SLT for this.
I genuinely don't. I blame Ofsted because at the
end of the day, someone said to me, it's like, yeah, cool.
I also think it's pointless, but Ofsted literally say we have to
do it. So if we if we if they come in
and we're not doing it, they can very rightfully say we told you
to do this thing. You're not doing it requires
improvement. Yeah, honestly.
So I'm like, OK, cool. Let's all just agree then to not
take it that seriously because none of none of us are going to
use it in our daily practise. None of us are going to check on
it. Yeah, it doesn't impact
anything. We know Ofsted are wrong.
They're literally wrong because they don't work in.
Schools, well, they're driving up.
Standards mate Driving up. Standards, yeah, we've got to,
we've got to assess all the humanities that can we, you
know, that's one of those. Anyway, going back to the
original point is just, yeah, prioritise everything.
I've got off on a massive tandem completely.
I'm glad I asked that question. Completely expose myself and
probably honestly half of you have also realised in your
career that there are some things that are pointless and
you just do them. You tick a box, they don't
really mean anything. You haven't done them to the
degree that they're supposed to be done because they're.
Pointless. That's why we did this.
And there's loads of things that do that, which is why #2 to is
to make this list, prioritise things.
Realise at the bottom 10% are probably things that honestly
you didn't need to spend your weekend doing.
You didn't need to stay till 5:30 instead of five last week
every day doing that thing because it was honestly utterly
pointless. So just either don't do it or
find a way to do it. Hayden doesn't even teach
history. Like it's just completely
pointless. Teaching history, this is
pointless guys. We're going to just, we're going
to do some more maths. History's already happened.
Maths is the only subject I love.
Right, moving on #3 use old planning.
Do you know I can already sense the kind of person listening to
this. It might be like this is a
horrendous list. What terrible practise.
Awful. What awful practitioners?
Do you not care about the kids? Oh my God, obviously I do.
But I don't need to do new slides every year to care about
my children. Do you know what I did?
I planned my lessons really well the first time around, right?
And I've been in Year 4 now for four years.
Do you know what hasn't changed? How to add mixed numbers and a
fraction together. Yeah.
You know what hasn't changed? The representation that I've
planned. Do you know what hasn't changed?
The thing the kids need to learn at the end of Year 4 because the
curriculum stayed the same. Do you know what has changed
though? Your ability to adapt on the
spot 100% to. Yeah, and I do it all the time.
What I don't need to do right is so people, the pushback on this
might be you can't choose old planning because kids are
different. OK, My pushback would be kids
are different and I can just use the same planning because the
not there's not only one way to adapt your teaching.
There's not only one way, which is to change your slides to
adapt because you know what I could do?
I could look at my class and be like my class, my class are
quite good at this actually. I could probably sit there, look
at this old planning and maybe add some extra bits in or, or
get rid of some stuff that's kind of going over old things
that I don't need anymore. I could sit there and do that
for 45 minutes, an hour, right? Or I could use those slides and
go, oh, next, next, next. Don't need to do that anymore,
right. So that is the same thing.
And one of them requires me to sit down and replan stuff for
hours in my own time and have less time with my son.
And the other thing requires me to use my.
Professional judgement to go on the spot.
Actually, no, no, no, we're going to go straight Oh to do.
The thing you'll pay for and. I'm with you.
This is what winds me up so, so much sometimes about this job,
which is I'm paid as a teacher to.
That's what I'm paid for. That's why I'm paid quite well.
That's why I'm a professional, because I have the ability to,
on the spot, realise or know something and change and adapt
it. That is the teacher standards we
talk about that are so important.
Yeah. What is not showing that off is
my ability to spend 2 hours doing something at the weekend
to change it like that. This is not what I'm paid to do
earlier in my career. Maybe that was the right thing
for me to do because I'm still learning.
Yeah, let me clarify something because I can feel, I could feel
someone misunderstanding something, right?
I want to clarify this. You say use old planning.
Let's say though, next year you got, let's say at the moment
you're teaching a lower ability set, and then the next year
you're teaching a higher ability set in that same subject.
Are you still saying Yep, use the exact same planning?
Yeah, of course not. Of course not.
Absolutely right. What I'm saying is when the
objective and the generic outcomes of your class and the
way they are are the same reuse stuff.
But what I'm also saying is if you live in a live, if you live,
I do live in a school, if you work in a school with the right
culture and outlook on this kind of thing, yeah.
Then if you move classes or ever to a different year group even,
or a different type of set or group of children, one of two
things can happen. You will re plan stuff, but you
know what, your objectives are probably still the same.
We're talking about English and maths.
You might look at the structure and expand it and find some more
resources for your children, or plan some more slides in, and
even you might sometimes plan from scratch.
Well, I found when I've changed like sort of learning groups, so
I've, I've, I've taught children, but I've, I've had a
set before who are, who are our lowest 12 achievers.
And my job was to really help these kids like just just make
progress basically at their level, right.
And then the next year, year, I've taken the top 32.
You can't compare. So honestly, I've had to
complete like zero of my planning from the one year was
applicable to next one because everything was different.
But what I could do, and this is where a really good school in
common place is, is I could use the planning though of the
teacher that was in that that's. The year of family.
Like and not all of it. I replanned bits of it because
all for various reasons. Some of it was just personal,
some of it was because I feel like these kids are different.
What you planned, I'm trying. To or you as a teacher might not
necessarily think that that's not my style, that's.
My style, that's to you at that point, but I could still use it
was there as a basis. It wasn't.
There's a shame, I think in some schools using someone elses
planning that no, you should be planning from scratch.
It's your set now. No, no, no, just you.
It's there. But like the thought experiment
for me is this right? Teaching has happened for a
very, very, very long time. And the curriculum also hasn't
changed in quite a long time. So for the last 10 years, 1010
years, right, the curriculum has changed.
It's it's not true, right that every single year since 2014,
all teachers planning has got better consistently community
cumulate. I can't speak cumulatively.
You're right. I'm all right now.
Your your talking's definitely not got better.
I was trying to say cumulatively you're teaching English.
Cumulatively you're teaching. No, I don't teach.
I told you, Dylan, I didn't teach maths.
That's every plan. How to pronounce words?
Yeah, that might be good, but it's not true.
Is it that like because? It.
Because it's not improved. It's not improved cumulatively,
right? Because if it was like that
would it doesn't make sense. Of course, some planning 10
years ago was honestly probably better than some of the planning
you made this year. It didn't need to be replanned,
but we did it anyway because we have this culture, toxic
culture. Like unless you're spending the
weekend planning, you know what, what good are you doing for your
for your students is not true. So where you can use old
planning, don't reinvent the wheel, I guess is the point here
where you can use old planning. And there's a lot more
situations where you can use old planning than maybe you think.
Use old planning. Tweak it or don't do anything to
it. If it's appropriate, adapt on
the spot if you can. If you look at it and think I
can just tweak that in the moment, do that then.
Yeah, and I think that's what people conflate.
They conflate the idea that if you're not using your own new
planning and you're using someone else's old planning, you
being a lazy teacher who is not adapting to your class, they are
different things. I adapt every single day.
Do you know what? Even if I planned from scratch,
I would argue that it's bad practise to not be adapting on
the spot anyway. So that that is so separate.
That is a separate thing. I could have planned from
scratch and I'd still be skipping past slides that when I
was planning, I thought, I put this in case and the kids don't
need it and I'm like, quite they don't need this skip past, skip
past don't need it. It's it's a different thing.
Do not conflate being a good teacher, adapting stuff on the
spot in front of your class to what they need, which is what
I'm paid professionally to do with me spending four hours at
the weekend planning from scratch.
These are not the same. Do you think it's possible that
a teacher out there, maybe even us in the past, has planned a
new lesson from scratch because they think it's supposed to be
done that way and ended up planning a lesson that's worse
than the one that already existed?
Yes, of course that exists. Yes, of course that's happened,
yes. So that just again proves this
whole point of like it does. It's not essential to my plan.
No 100%. Anyway, point #4 hope you enjoy
these points so far guys. But point #4 is.
What they could do there leaves a review.
We weren't in the middle. Do you know because it's in the
middle of the seven middle. Yeah, people listening at the
end they might drop off leaves a review every going guys, we're
going for over 200 on Spotify. We're nearly there and on Apple
podcast when people actually write reviews.
We've had such nice reviews in the last week or two.
Please leave us a review wherever you're at.
And out of five stars they should probably go.
Probably 5, I think. I reckon.
Yeah. Problem is, Dylan, by doing it
in the middle, we've messed up, weren't we?
Messed up. Because they're listening so
intently to this. They're not gonna, they're not
gonna stop and do it. But maybe they will.
Maybe this time, Yeah, they'll stop listening for a second and
just give us a quick review. That'd be nice.
Maybe. Anyway, back-to-back to.
The point #4 #4 leave a review. Yeah, this one's really.
Linked to an episode we did recently, but we didn't want to
not we didn't want to leave it out because it was it was so
important. We did a whole episode talking
about it, but it's just stop accepting automatically things
that you know or even just to have an opinion on that you
think are not acceptable. I think let's let's let's let's
move this shift this from the first point, which was being
able to push back on stuff, right.
Let's shift it to what you're saying things you know are
wrong, things you know, go against what your contract says,
OK things you know are actually bad workplace practise.
Don't just accept so the. Actionable point then I guess
really here is know your contract.
We did the whole episode about knowing your contract, right?
Know your contract, know that you know, we've talked about
this the whole this word, the word reasonable.
It's like the killer word in the contract of teachers are
expected to do a reasonable amount extra outside of school
outside of directed hours to get the job done.
It's the killer because some people take it one way and some
people take it the other way. But remember, reasonable does go
both ways. You know, reasonable for who?
Reasonable for you, reasonable for the SLT because they want to
meet stand like certain standards they've set like
you've you've got to have the confidence to understand that
your contract doesn't mean my head teacher who is my boss of
life gets to tell me what's reasonable for my life.
No, no, no, no. That's not what it.
Means, and you know, it's great. There's literally a paragraph in
that contract, if you know it really well, that says those
people cannot dictate to you what reasonable is.
Yeah, it's not even us just saying, oh, reasonable works
both ways guys, let's interpret it this way, which is great for
us. Read the contract.
There is a paragraph that says that SLT leadership, anyone else
cannot tell you what reasonable is and how much work to do and
when to do it outside of directed time.
It is in writing. I had a really interesting
conversation with someone on TikTok.
I did, I did a video about about this, about this idea of this
reasonable part of the contract because I I probably fall on the
side and I still do that. I think that ambiguity in that
contract is the root cause of so much burnout and, and teachers
leading exploitation and exploitation.
That's the word and I still think think that, but this, this
guy had made, made what I thought was a really interesting
point. I'd like to see what you think
about it. And his point was, Oh my God,
no, we should not get rid of this from the contract.
The idea that we have this idea of reasonable and this
professional judgement comes in is a real positive for the
profession because it's a contract.
And like you said, it works both ways.
So what this does is it actually should be giving the teacher the
power to define what reasonable is for them and the ability
going back to .1 to push back and say, no, no, no, I'm I'm
professional at saying this is not reasonable now.
And his idea was let's, let's not go down the bureaucratic
route of putting an X amount of time on it.
So we have the 1265 plus additional reasonable.
Let's not change it to 1500 because for some staff that
might mean they end up doing more work and they might mean
they're ticking some boxes and things like that.
And his my main criticism is that that's amazing and I get
what you're saying and we've got the same outcome goal, but that
it's already that and it doesn't happen.
Yeah, OK. I mean, you kind of said my
point there. So like the keyword and
everything you said was the word should.
Yeah. His use of modal verbs, they're
like, you know, yeah, the teachers should be using.
Yeah, but they're. Not yeah, we have to all be on
the same. Page I love ideology like I
often live in an ideological version of the world in my head
and I and I strive towards it. And when we went on strike, it's
because I'm pushing for this ideology and then nothing
happened after, you know, we talked about it after in a
different episode, but I really do like ideologies and I and I
think the sentiment is great. Yeah, it is.
It is potentially a really good thing that it says reasonable in
the contract and therefore we can interpret it and we have
this lower cap and reasonable extra.
It's kind of what we champion it to be, but we don't.
So it's kind of a point to point because do you know what it's
that reasonable? It's been around like it's not
like it's brand new and we're in the first year and we're finding
our feet. We're no, no, it's been in the
contract for decades. It's been there for a long time.
And and it doesn't that's the ideology isn't the reality.
The reality is teachers are being massively exploited for
for this word reasonable way, way, way more proportionally,
like disproportionately than the amount of teachers who are
managing to. If we did put a cap of 1500
hours, I don't, I don't think there's I think there's a small
percentage of teachers that would negatively be impacted.
Like, Oh, I was only doing 1419 lime an hour.
Blooming, Blooming Eck, is what we say as teachers because we
don't swear. Yeah.
So I don't know. I think I, you know, I wouldn't
get angry at this person. I think it's a really nice
point. But I just think, yeah, the
reality kind of speaks for itself, though, doesn't it?
Because, yeah, we should be. But we should have been doing
that for the last 15 years and we haven't.
So. And.
There's a whole bunch of stuff we weren't going to now.
We did it previously in different episodes about how
knowing your contract can impact your PPA, impact your your
workplace rights. You know, literally just how
many hours you should be doing in a week.
Like when it comes to weeks like we've just been through which
which have parents evening. Maybe I've had people who've had
also had twilight in the same week as parents evening.
Just tot up your hours and know that actually you shouldn't
doesn't go above a certain amount every week.
That is literally your working rights.
So knowing that, stop accepting things and, and this is the
actionable thing. If you literally, if you know
your contract, you can literally in black and white send an
e-mail, snip something in, tag a union Rep and and bring this up.
This is not acceptable because our contract says this.
I've tagged my union Rep. No, it doesn't have to be
personal. Crack on.
But we're not doing it.
Let's get on to #5 Go ahead. Go on, number 50, me again, Look
at that. Distinguishing between what's
nice for the kids, like things that you do that are nice.
Well, that's nice, isn't it? And actually impactful like so
you just have this split in your head of tasks.
What do you mean though? Because nice is like, you know,
bigging them up a bit. Well done mate.
Are we, are we saying things I've got in my head straight
away clarify for me or not? I'm thinking that you mean
things like writing in the book next to a smiley.
Wow, what a lovely paragraph you've written, Johnny.
That kind of thing for every child every single day is nice,
but it's not necessarily having an impact.
And as teachers we might think, but it's lovely.
It's part of my job. You're saying listen, just do
it. Literally that sort of thing.
OK. And even that someone could
argue no, it is having an impact because it's a bit positive on
their mind. There's always an argument for
everything. I think it's very hard to define
precisely. Like black, like zeros and ones.
This is only nice. This is only impactful, but
there is a scale there where you can probably determine something
as like, we're just doing this because we think it's nice, but
it's not really having an impact.
And if that thing is then adding loads of workload, you should
probably think about cutting that thing in half or even
scrapping it all together. Like there's a nice actual thing
here of start thinking about everything you do as is this
impactful for the children or am I doing it because it looks
good? Is it an optic?
Is it nice? Is it because or I haven't
written in the if your thought train to writing something in
the book is I haven't written, I haven't written in that book in
a certain amount of time, so I better write in that book today.
If that's the reason you're writing the book, you're doing
it because you think it's nice. Sure you're not doing it because
you think it's impactful, because if you thought it's
impactful, you would have done it automatically because you're
a teacher. You do that already, right?
And I've culled that sort of stuff completely from my life.
Like I really, if you look at my books, if I write something in
their book, it's because I think it's going to have an impact.
I honestly almost never write in their books now, like
acknowledgement stuff. Sometimes, sometimes you'll see
in my book that hang on because sometimes you will see in my
book. Oh, well done.
You did a really good bit here because you know why?
Because that child, I know it will have have an impact on them
because they've got a really low self.
Esteem so you don't acknowledge your kids ever.
You're horrible. Yeah, never in the hour that
they teach them in that. 1 exactly.
Right. Like I acknowledge them all the
time and I acknowledge them even after the lesson.
I say look for all your work last night.
And it was fantastic. Boom, done.
Look at that. I just saved an hour because
everyone's immediately got the same feedback.
It doesn't make a difference. But for that one kid, I did
write a really nice comment in them because I know they've been
working really hard recently and that's going to have an impact.
For this kid, though, I didn't write that.
I didn't write anything at all. And this other child, they got
something wrong and I wrote a little note there to help them
because I think it was a really easy misconception that I can
explain in words. And for this other child, they
made a misconception. I don't think it'll be impactful
for me to write it in words because it was complex.
I'm going to talk to them tomorrow.
I'm a teacher. Your teachers as well.
You know what's impactful? So basically the, the actionable
point here, I'm not letting Dylan speak at all.
You're right. I'm going and going.
The actionable point here is decide in your head everything
you do at school from now on. What is just on the side of I'm
doing it because it's nice or I'm doing it because it's an
optic and I have to be seen to be doing this thing, but it
doesn't have any impact. And what things actually, I
think having an impact, because I'm a professional teacher, I
know what actually has an impact on kids or not Stop doing the
nice things or just just half them, just half them and find
that you're just cutting back a bit more time.
If your policies every single day you have to write something
in the books, honestly start doing it half as much and then
challenge the policy. It goes back at the.
End of the year, you can say, oh look, my guys, really weird
this. I stopped doing this a month
ago. I didn't tell any of you, but I
stopped doing it a month ago and I made the exact same progress
as everybody else. So maybe we're all just wasting
our time doing this, and we could, we could get back some
time for us teachers, see what they say.
Be be the change you want to see.
Sometimes I completely agree with you and yeah, don't feel
guilty because someone else is doing something.
This is what happens with teaching.
Last point in this #5 so often I see someone think, oh, well,
that person is doing. I've got to, yeah, that person
is doing, Oh my gosh, I've got to do it.
I feel awful. They're doing it.
I've got to do it. That's not a reason to do
something. Yeah, that is not alone a reason
to do something. There have been multiple times
where another teacher has done something and I've thought,
damn, that's good, I'm going to use that tomorrow.
That is amazing. Wow.
I can see how that will impact my kids.
That's what I thought. There've been multiple other
times where someone's gone. Oh, I write this thing on the
board every day and I've thought that's great, but it would not
have any impact on my kids, so I'm not going to do it.
I don't think. Oh gosh, am I not doing the same
as everyone? Oh my gosh, I don't spend as
long. I don't spend as long marking as
someone else. Doesn't that mean we all have to
mark more? No.
Do you know what maybe means? Do you know what potentially it
might mean? We'll have to mark less, so
let's just not jump onto that bandwagon of more is better.
Let's do a couple more examples because I feel like I did this a
lot more when I was a younger teacher, right?
I mean, firstly, just your example of like you see other
staff doing things. Here's a really good one.
I've seen loads of times in my career.
I've seen teachers like sticking things into children's books
because they're like, oh, the children are just messy and I
want this in their books really nice and neat.
So they stick it all in like pre stick it in four and they might
take the books home that evening and like get all this thing
prepared and I'm like that's nice.
I'm just going to give them 3 minutes to stick it in
themselves. And if it's slightly messy, I
don't really care because it's not actually going to have any
impact on anything. It just looks nice.
That's one really good example. It's like you wasted an hour.
I wasted zero time and the outcomes were honestly the same.
And and wasted is such a it's a strong word because for them
that might that might that they might not care doing that.
This is the thing that I'm I really want to push as well is
that I don't care if people do that.
Yeah, yeah, I honestly don't like.
I personally don't care if that person wants to take it home and
stick it in when I would care as if then there's a book look like
this person's cheats are really lovely and yours are messy.
Can you sort out, please? I'm sorry, No.
The only reason they're they do that is they take it home for an
hour and I'm not gonna do that. But that that's when there's a
problem. Yeah, that's when it's an issue.
When it becomes the bar and that person taking it home should be
the first person to say, Oh no, no, I I just did that because I
want to. Yeah, it's absolutely should not
be having spending an hour doing that.
That's up to you. Here's another one.
Early in my career, probably the first five years of my career,
every single half term, I'd make sure in my half term break that
I would sit down with a document, an Excel sheet.
I'd make my, I'd make my class in an Excel sheet and I'd do a
seating plan, do a new seating plan.
I'd really think it through. I'd even used to attach like
some data to it and stuff like what the hell I was doing like,
Oh yeah, these kids are here because they're for this reason.
Like there's the case they're not anywhere by cheques.
You know, I've got these children here because they're
laurability. I've got them, put them here,
here, and here's their data point from last time.
Now I get a scrap piece of paper on the first day of term.
If I want to change this, sometimes I don't want to change
it. I'm like, no, they're in a
you're in a good position. They come in, we're changing
seats. No, I think you're in a good
place to learn. Sit down.
Done. Other times I scrap their paper,
draw it up and map out the classroom.
I have, I think 5 minutes past that.
Sat there in registration maybe. Or I'll do it over, you know,
the lunchtime or the next day or whatever, and I'll do a seat
plan like that. It was nice what I was doing
before, Yeah. Didn't have any impact, though.
I didn't need to. Do it, and if it did, it was
minimal, not worth your. Time.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. It was too far on the scale
towards Nice for me to justify doing it.
And one last thing, Displays. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I used to come in every half term and do displays.
What's wrong with me doing get a life mate?
Literally. I'd go and go and touch graph.
Yeah, exactly. I'd come in in the half term,
every single half term, and get my new displays ready for the
time. Not a single child in my whole
career has ever commented on one.
They don't care, no. Kids, can I tell you one thing?
The only time I've ever seen a display of yours get so much
attention and so much love, Oh yeah, was a whiteboard display
where you write a Riddle. Yeah, I wrote a daily.
Riddle nothing to do with actually doing displays coming
in for hours now it's just a daily Riddle which would have
taken you 10 seconds, had 10 times more impact, 100 times
more of an impact on your class yeah than any display you've
ever done other than yeah, literally, but there you go
like. And even that, and even that was
just nice. Yeah, it was just no one needs
to do. And if you're really under
pressure, you can stop doing that.
But if if you want to do it, do it.
I might not. It doesn't mean I'm a worse
teacher than you. It means brilliant.
Well done, pal. That's great.
You want to do. It so I'll leave the point on
that. Then cut, cut the cut tasks in
your head into nice and impactful on a scale.
Which ones on the nice side can you maybe stop doing altogether
or at least cut a little bit back to buy back some of your
time? You'll be surprised how many
things you can do with minimal minimal negative impact at all.
Are you ready for the most controversial point?
This is This is number six. This is number six.
You as a teacher do not have as much impact on the outcomes of
these children as you might think.
You do what? What do you mean?
You're telling me that my job is pointless?
No, not at all. I'm saying you have an impact,
but it's not as impactful as you might think.
And there are other things that come into play than the quality
of your teaching as to the outcomes of the children.
This, I can imagine, would get a lot of people's backs up.
Yeah. Because you, you you would take
it the wrong way. Yeah, of course you would.
I feel like I take it the wrong way.
Yeah. What do you mean?
I don't have as much impact as I think I do?
Yeah. That's rude.
Yeah. What are you saying to me?
What I'm saying is you can have an impact on the outcomes of
children Attainment. I'm talking about attainment.
So I can have an impact. You can have an impact, but it's
small. OK.
The outcomes of children and how they do educationally wise is
far more correlated to their their their intelligence.
Yeah, it's far more correlated to their personal
characteristics and their traits.
That is going to have much more of an impact on their outcomes
than the teacher in front of them.
OK. And how are you backing this?
Up. I'm backing this up with
research. This is from the Cambridge
University Press. It's been released by Douglas
Detterman. Douglas K Detterman, you can
search this up. And the title is Education and
Intelligence. Pity the poor teacher because
student characteristics are more significant than teachers or
schools. And it could get you back up
when you hear that. And I get it.
But when you read it, it makes complete sense.
So there's a bit of a thought experiment here.
Imagine you get 50 classes of children.
OK. And in these fifty classes of
children, the ability of the children is completely mixed.
There's no streaming whatsoever. There's mixed ability classes,
50 of them. And you have 50 teachers, OK.
And they're all various degrees of teaching, right?
And how competent they are as a teacher, because whatever metric
you want to go by, there are some teachers that are better
than others. That's just.
Whatever it is, we've. Whatever it is.
From like best teachers, the worst teachers.
It sounds silly, but I get the idea that completely right.
So in this first set with the mixed classes, we put the
teachers from best teacher making the most impact possible,
to the lowest teacher to making the least impact.
Possible, right? And we give them all a class.
We give them all a class that's mixed ability, and what we see
is the teachers who are better at making better outcomes do
make more progress than the other teachers at the bottom.
Right. So the outcomes of the children
that top class yeah, are better, are better the children with the
quote unquote worst. Exactly.
The teacher who isn't as good at getting progress.
That's true. That happens.
However, what we do then is we take another set of 50 classes
with 20 children, but this time, instead of ranking the teachers
from their ability, we're now going to stream the children.
So we have 50 classes of 20 children.
So that's 1000 children and we take the top 20 children each
time and they're in the top set, they're in the top group and we
take the next 20. So ranking the kids and the next
intelligence exactly that. We're ranking the children by
their characteristics and their intelligence.
We see way more of a move regardless of what teachers with
each class because we don't rank the teachers anymore.
It's completely random. So the teachers are mixed.
The teachers are mixed. The best teacher might be with
the lowest class, or the middle teacher might be with the best
class, or what we say is the worst teacher might be with the
third best. It's completely.
Random. Yeah, all the teachers could
even be just the same level. Of exactly that, whatever,
whatever it is, No, with this case, the teachers are
different. That's the point.
That is literally the point because the ability of the
teacher doesn't have as much of an impact because what happens
is the children at the top make the most progress no matter what
teacher they're with, right? And the point of this experiment
is, yes, we have an impact, but by far and away the biggest
impact on a child's ability and outcome and intelligence and
growth is themselves. It already will be happening
because of how they are as a rounded individual.
Can I read the little bit of summary here?
Because I think I get that. That made complete sense to me.
I get that, right. So like I'm going to give you
numbers now for the difference, right?
So what what this study show, well tried to show at least, was
that teachers in that first analogy accounted for 1% to 7%
of total variance of every level of education.
So we're saying like the difference between that that
bottom like that worst teacher with a mixed ability class and
that amazing the the best whatever best means teacher was
like 7% was the difference. It accounts for 7% of of like
the yeah, the impact we can make on on education.
Whereas for students, the intelligence, just their
intelligence accounts for 90% of the variance associated with
learning gains. So essentially like it was,
yeah, like you said, the the top ability children made the most
progress anyway, regardless of what teachers had.
And and what you said to me earlier is someone you've spoken
to, someone who's essentially told you that in your career,
Like, yeah. No, this, so this again is it's
not nice. And people might be thinking,
well, yeah, obviously if children are more intelligent,
of course they're going to make more progress that that just
very quickly before we go on to what I was told, the whole point
here is exactly, exactly. So when you're ploughing extra
loads of extra stuff into to and being the best teacher you can
be, it does have an impact. But like we need to just it's
not as much as we might think it is.
So I was told, I remember I did, I had a lesson observation and
this is from SLTA while ago. This has really stuck on me
since. And essentially they said I had
a class of 32 and they said 25 of these children, no matter
what you did, would have been absolutely fine.
This lesson, no matter what, no matter how you taught, no matter
what you did, they would have behaved themselves well.
They have the characteristics to listen.
They would have made progress. Do the work.
Because they would have done the work that's in front of them and
they would have got better at science.
There's another 10% which could go either way.
And that's down to maybe your ability then to help them and to
keep them on task. And he, and he even said this to
me, there are 10% who it honestly doesn't matter what you
do, they're going to find this really tricky.
They're not quite accessing this because they're just at that
same level or they're so disruptive that they won't do
any learning no matter what kind of thing you do.
So his whole point now was, I'm not sure if he was trying to
make this point, but it really stuck with me From my point of
view was cool. I have an impact on 10% of these
children. I, I have an impact in terms of
their progress and how much extra things they can learn is
quite small and is smaller than most teachers like to hear.
And where I can have a big impact on these children is more
socially being a safe space, letting them talk about their
feelings, being a part of a room where we can make mistakes, et
cetera. I don't want to diminish all of
that 'cause I think it's really important.
My point here, number six, is we don't have as much of an impact
as we think we do. So next time you're justifying.
Oh God. But I just love the kids.
So I'm gonna spend 8 hours on Sunday replanning this stuff to
make it really, really amazing. You're having a one to 7%
difference. You're having a one to 7%
difference. Across the year, and that's one
lesson exactly. You're ploughing 8 hours into
into one week. Sorry.
Yeah. And across the whole year,
you're having a one to one to 7% variance on their ability.
Yeah, it's a really important point.
And it sounds like, you know, I don't want anyone to listen to
this being like, God, these guys are like buzz kill negative.
It can sound really negative. What I don't want you to take
from this is that we're that we think that therefore you
shouldn't do anything. No.
Yeah, completely. That's not what we're saying.
What we're saying here is if you want to take back control of
your life as a teacher and start gaining, you know, getting some
of your hours back outside of school, you've done your
reasonable hours and more, right?
Start looking at some of the tasks you do that you have given
importance to, significant importance to in your mind,
maybe because of your own beliefs or because of the
culture of the school that you're in that have really
forced you to kind of think this way and challenge it.
Because what you're, what we're saying here is you'll find that
if you stopped doing a lot of these things, you might think,
oh, that's going to have such a big impact because you've put so
much importance on it. And what we're saying is it
probably won't at all. It probably won't have that much
impact at all because teachers, we have a much smaller impact on
children's academic success than we think they do.
So that I'm going to reiterate one other point you said,
because I want to be so clear here.
No one. No one.
I was back at us with like saying, well, we think something
we don't. Wait until this is slipped into
a one minute. Real, literally, yeah, quite,
you know, 10 minute real is that we are talking about academic
intelligence. You know, we're talking about
that kind of success here. We are not talking about the
impact we can have on children holistically, which what Dylan
was talking about, the social stuff.
This is a different conversation.
We are advocates for. School should be a safe space
for children to enjoy their life and have fun and become lovely
people. That is where I want to be
spending my time, having an impact on children.
I'm not, however, going to go home on on Sunday and change all
of my fonts because the school has now decided there's a new
font policy because it will have, and in this case, I'm
being honest, that will have 0% impact on the outcomes of the
children socially or academically.
It will have absolutely none. It's not even going to snip into
the 1%. Like there are some things that
are so absurd they don't do anything.
But there's, there's other things that I might deem as, do
you know what that probably would have a 1% impact.
I reckon I would see a 1% difference if I did this thing.
But this thing across the year is going to take me a total of
about 80 to 90 hours if I implemented it.
And it's just not worth it. And as a professional you should
be able to say that's not worth it. 1% difference for 80 hours
of my time is not a fair trade on top of the hours I already
do, so I'm not gonna do it. And you're not a bad teacher for
doing that. And if someone wants to argue
that it is, you're bad. You need to do that.
Just ask them why they're not doing 120 hours.
Yeah, just ask them why they're not doing 160 hours.
Oh, you do have a cut off. Cool.
Mine's at a different place. You don't care about the kids.
You could do another 10 hours a week.
Yeah, Yeah, I could, but. But I've got to have my dinner.
No, you don't. You could have a little snack
whilst you're doing. You're you're you're.
No. It're absurd.
You can always face the same argument.
It's just push, push, push, push until they realise that there is
no line to come. Full circle here while we finish
up. I think what this does
beautifully is it comes back to our passion that we were saying
earlier about parents evening when we're talking about the
holistic view of the child and how that is the most important
thing. That is the thing that we see
have the biggest impact on attainment, have the biggest
impact on all outcomes in school is how well-rounded we can build
this child. And it takes a village to raise
a child and a school's role is in that too.
And I think we forget that sometimes.
We're so obsessed with data and league tables and attainment.
Yes, that's important. But when it comes to parents
evening and yes, opposite the parents of a child that you're
with every single day, I want that child to be polite, kind,
well-rounded, happy, safe. And if we can build that
together, that is going to have much more of an impact on that
child's outcomes, including attainment than anything else I
can do at the weekend on a slide changing a font.
There we go, there we have it, the finale from dinner.
What a lovely point to finish on and I hope you really, really
hope you enjoyed the six points and I hope you've managed to
action some of them at least, even straight away and.
Yeah. And can I pick up everyone who
listens to us and understands what we're saying without trying
to be malicious because that does it really does make up
because we we love the kids. And I love it when people
message us and say your passion really shines through about how
much you love teaching the children, etcetera.
Yes, that's everything we're saying here.
We love the kids, we love our colleagues, we want to help
everyone and this is our goal. So thank you to everyone who
listens and says, yeah, guys, well done because that is what
we're trying to do. So I appreciate that.
Appreciate you guys. Anyway, until next time, bye.