1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:01,880 Hello, everyone. Welcome back to another episode 2 00:00:01,880 --> 00:00:03,960 of Teach the Repeat. My name is Dylan and my name is 3 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:05,200 Hayden. How you doing, Hayden? 4 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:07,320 I'm all right. You want to have a little. 5 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:08,720 I'm all right. I don't know. 6 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:11,680 I feel like the mic. No, no, don't. 7 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:14,720 You're going to take the mic. This is a safe space. 8 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:16,720 Is it? Unless it's about the clothes 9 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:18,920 you wear. Sorry, hang on. 10 00:00:20,080 --> 00:00:21,680 Every single time. It's funny because this is my 11 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:23,440 house and every single time I'm wearing something you seem to 12 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:25,120 wear the same so. Yeah, it's weird. 13 00:00:25,240 --> 00:00:26,640 Maybe you're inspired by me, But anyway. 14 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:28,280 It makes me think I need to change what I'm wearing. 15 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,040 Oh, I look quite similar to that guy. 16 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:33,560 Normally we start off with a nice cheerful hello, how you 17 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:35,440 doing everyone? And then we talk about how 18 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:37,680 everyone should be, you know, rating the podcast because we've 19 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:38,960 got a lot of brand new listeners. 20 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:41,160 So they should maybe give us a five star review, be really 21 00:00:41,160 --> 00:00:42,480 helpful, share the podcast, etcetera. 22 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:43,560 But you wanted to cut through all. 23 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:44,760 That yeah, I don't think we should do that today. 24 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:46,760 OK, now sure it's not. Shouldn't ask the viewers to do 25 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:47,640 all that lovely stuff for. Us. 26 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:48,800 No. I think we asked them a lot to 27 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:52,360 rate US on Spotify and iTunes. ITunes. 28 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:54,080 We can tell who's the one who doesn't be asking. 29 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:59,200 This guy, he doesn't use Apple old iTunes music and whatever 30 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:03,240 they call it, they say you. Grab your iPods guys and scroll 31 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:05,720 through to the Teach Sleep Repeat podcast. 32 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:07,280 And rate it. But we won't ask them. 33 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:09,280 We won't ask. Not today, anyway. 34 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:10,440 I know. Look, we're coming up to Episode 35 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:11,360 100. We are. 36 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:14,120 And I think that's maybe playing on my mind because I can't 37 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:16,480 fathom the fact that we've done 97 of these before this one. 38 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:19,360 Yeah. Where has that time gone? 39 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:22,520 Well, that's how time works. I think you'd take them. 40 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,400 Just time chugs on, doesn't it? A wider point actually. 41 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:29,480 Constant rate. Our children are also ageing at 42 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:30,560 a constant rate. Yeah, I know. 43 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:32,480 And I just, I just, it's kind of so quick. 44 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:35,800 Well, do you know something very, very roughly aligned with 45 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:39,240 the start of this podcast? Maybe it made us more virile and 46 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:42,280 ready to go because our babies were conceived around that time 47 00:01:42,320 --> 00:01:43,360 as well. Yeah, yeah. 48 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:46,520 It just so happens that though, if you look back to when we 49 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:50,120 start the podcast in early 2023, both of our babies were born in 50 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:53,200 late 2023. So you can track back basically 51 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:57,200 the entire journey through pregnancy and through birth and 52 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:00,320 through our children growing up. It's like almost like a market 53 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:01,880 of how old this and that's. What? 54 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:03,640 I mean, but that's but that's gone so quick. 55 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:05,400 Yeah, it's gone so quick and it just worries me. 56 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:07,480 No, people always say like older people be like, oh, you just 57 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:09,199 wait. As you get older, the time it 58 00:02:09,199 --> 00:02:11,120 just goes quicker. And like you said, I'm normally 59 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:12,160 sarcastic. I'm like, oh it doesn't know 60 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:15,040 time does It just goes the same. But I think it perceives to go 61 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:19,320 quicker genuinely, because if you're 40 a year to you is a 62 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:22,560 40th of your life. If you're 10 a year to you is 63 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:24,640 1/10 of your life and you don't even remember the first two or 64 00:02:24,640 --> 00:02:26,720 three years. So it's much more proportional 65 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:29,400 wise a big chunk of your life. So I, I think there is 66 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:31,520 definitely truth in it. And I think when you have 67 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:35,760 children who grow so incredibly quickly and and develop so 68 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:39,720 quickly and change so quickly from like 3 months for our 69 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:42,760 children is unbelievable that change that goes. 70 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:45,880 So much happens. If you rewind 3 months and and 71 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:49,960 then look at now our babies are walking, our babies are talking 72 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:52,680 way more. Rory reacts to things. 73 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:54,480 He says yes and. No, Yeah, mines running, yeah. 74 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:56,880 Is running yours knows other times tables? 75 00:02:56,880 --> 00:02:59,720 Yeah, quicker than Sophie be at the times tables up to 100 76 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:00,920 already. It's insane. 77 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:03,080 Quicker than old Sophie. Sophie the robot? 78 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:06,200 Yeah, but I don't know, I'm just feeling weird about it. 79 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:08,920 I was laying in bed last night just thinking, am I just, is it? 80 00:03:08,920 --> 00:03:10,320 Am I just going to be 50 like that? 81 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:12,840 And our kids are just adults and they'll be like, oh, that's 82 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:13,880 gone, honestly. Yeah. 83 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:15,880 But that's horrible, isn't it? Makes me. 84 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:17,480 We need to know the most of it, genuinely. 85 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:18,800 I don't know. People are listening probably 86 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:21,120 now, if you don't have kids, you're probably thinking, well, 87 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:23,360 I've got all this to come or I'm choosing to not do that, or I 88 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:24,560 can't do that for whatever reason. 89 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:27,800 I think people go through this thought process either way. 90 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:29,160 Yeah. You know, you get older and you 91 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:31,440 think you just blink and you're you're 40. 92 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:33,600 You know, I'm, I'm 31. You're 32. 93 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:37,080 You look 40 already. So I mean that must play on your 94 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:40,480 mind. Baby, I've looked 40 since I was 95 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:43,440 23. It's gone so. 96 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:46,280 Quick listen, Hun. I was like you, aged 50 years. 97 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:50,000 Literally, there's one perk of being of being bald, which is 98 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:51,440 that you kind of look the same for a long time. 99 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:54,560 Yeah, to be fair, when you're 50, I've got you. 100 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:57,960 You look well, you look well, you look you were 23. 101 00:03:58,320 --> 00:03:59,800 You look exactly the bloody same. 102 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:03,240 Yeah, I'll ignore that. Oh. 103 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:06,240 Back to a serious point, genuinely I do. 104 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:09,600 I do know what you mean. It is time does just seem to 105 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:11,000 move quickly. Does seem that way. 106 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:13,600 So on that note, yes, how's your week been? 107 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:15,200 That's gone really quick. Other than my monthly 108 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:18,040 existential existential crisis that I have, you know, every now 109 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:20,880 and then, I've been pretty good. So I mean, we obviously went to 110 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:22,240 BET last week. We spoke about that in our last 111 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:25,920 episode and when we visited the White Rose stand we were given, 112 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:30,800 we were given some tiny the turtle plushy. 10 years, weren't 113 00:04:30,840 --> 00:04:31,800 we? They were fantastic. 114 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:34,600 So you've had one in your class? Yep, I've had one in one in my 115 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:35,120 class. I left it. 116 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:36,120 Where have you put yours? Yeah. 117 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:38,880 Hilariously, now you put an Instagram picture. 118 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:41,840 Yeah, that's my room. Of of your tiny, the turtle on 119 00:04:41,840 --> 00:04:43,760 your board. I obviously I did the exact same 120 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:44,200 thing. Did you? 121 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:47,000 Obviously it was also leaning on my board because it fit nicely. 122 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:48,520 The legs kind of went over it nicely. 123 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:51,760 It was there, but I've got they're fascinated by it. 124 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:53,640 I've got year six. I thought they'd be like, oh, 125 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:55,480 well done, Mrs Stevens. That's stupid. 126 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:58,400 Chuck it in a bin. Yeah, but they were like, damn. 127 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:00,600 Straight up. I'm thinking, can we take turns 128 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:01,800 maybe. And who looks after each day? 129 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,480 I was like, Jesus Christ, you're that you're that into this tiny. 130 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:06,080 That's brilliant. They absolutely love. 131 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:07,960 It it shows how much we use White Rose, doesn't it? 132 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:09,960 Yeah, I know. Kids in year 6 are like it's a 133 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:12,400 celebrity. I've seen tiny every week for my 134 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:13,840 whole school life. What are you? 135 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:15,000 What are your fours like? I bet. 136 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:17,080 They loved it. They absolutely loved it. 137 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:20,600 It was so nice because do you know what kids in general jump 138 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:22,880 on any opportunity for something that's a bit different and fun? 139 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:24,720 Yeah, I find that in general, and I think, and sometimes we 140 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:27,800 get caught in that trap of just like very strictly ready to do, 141 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:29,760 doing your work to do that, which I think is great for a lot 142 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:31,720 of reasons. But every now and then, jeez, 143 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:33,440 have a bit of fun. And this was that moment to do 144 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:35,400 it. And we had Tiny and I'd put him 145 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:37,960 on the board before anyone had come in, right. 146 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:40,920 So I didn't say anything either. And they were coming in. 147 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,320 And it's amazing how perceptive children are when it's not their 148 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:44,920 own work and doing. Things wrong in their own work. 149 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:48,440 Because within nought .5 seconds the first child who walked in 150 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:51,920 went you've got tiny. And I was like, yeah, can you 151 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:54,040 tell me the date today? No, Underneath tiny. 152 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:55,360 Yeah. Wouldn't be able to see that 153 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:56,720 date. What's the date today? 154 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:58,000 It's the it's underneath the turtle. 155 00:05:58,000 --> 00:05:59,200 You've been shouting about 5 minutes. 156 00:05:59,400 --> 00:05:59,920 It's just there. You're. 157 00:05:59,920 --> 00:06:02,160 The one you spotted immediately. Exactly. 158 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:04,560 But they loved it. I said on Instagram, one of the 159 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:07,080 children put their hand up and we were, we kind of gone over 160 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:08,960 the whole, we've got a tiny, how do you get in, blah, blah. 161 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:10,960 There's only two in the whole school, minor Mr Stevens 162 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:12,400 classroom. It's very, very special. 163 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:14,560 Oh, going to put him here so we can watch because he needs to 164 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:16,920 learn, doesn't he, Tiny? Anyone who uses White Rose knows 165 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:18,560 that tiny's wrong 99% of the time. 166 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:19,960 Yeah. So really good for growth 167 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:23,080 mindset, really good for the children being able to say no, 168 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:24,920 it's because of and they're doing reasoning without 169 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:27,120 thinking. But anyway, we had the whole 170 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:29,360 chat about it. We kind of sat about down, done 171 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:31,880 some of our times table work, ready to start a lesson and a 172 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:34,600 child just put the hand up and I went, yeah, Anyway, can I just 173 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,040 say one thing to Tiny please? To Tiny, yeah. 174 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:39,440 To Tiny, to him, plushie on the board. 175 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:40,880 And I was like, yeah, of course, go on. 176 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:44,760 And he turned to Tiny and he went, Tiny, you have to stop 177 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:48,600 getting things wrong. And he was being genuine, like 178 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:51,600 we're going to help, you gotta stop me and we're going to help 179 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:52,360 you today. Okay? 180 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:55,760 So it was a really nice hook. My kids loved it, but Tiny 181 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:58,160 stayed there all day. So we have maths in the morning 182 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:00,800 and maths classes are slightly different to English and 183 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,600 afternoon classes, but every single child who saw him for the 184 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:05,840 first time was buzzing and I was so funny. 185 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:08,240 It's nice though. Yeah, such a simple thing. 186 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:09,560 I really didn't think it'd have that reaction. 187 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:13,560 One of the one of my kids I swear went home that night came 188 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:16,680 in the next day and said bought 1 because you can buy them on 189 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:18,320 the White Rose website. They literally asked me in 190 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:19,520 school can we get can we get them? 191 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:20,520 Can you buy them? I was like, you can. 192 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:22,400 They're quite expensive though. They're like 15 lbs. 193 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:24,440 If you want to buy them, we got them for free because obviously. 194 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:26,120 We're huge influence influencers. 195 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:28,440 I think the term is Ed. You talk flinters. 196 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:31,160 Ed, you talk flinters. And by the way, I mean, Dylan 197 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:32,240 and I just kind of ride off of it. 198 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:35,040 But he went and bought 1. He was like, it arrives on 199 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:36,840 Monday. I was like, OK, well, bring in 200 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:38,920 your tiny. We have a tiny party. 201 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:41,240 Honestly, I love it. Absolutely love it. 202 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:42,360 That's so. Sweet. 203 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:44,400 Oh, that's nice. Well, I glad we had a parallel 204 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:46,120 experience and both did the exact same thing. 205 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:47,040 We might even know. Of course we did. 206 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:48,560 Yeah, like these clothes we're wearing. 207 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:51,000 It's not a surprise, really, at this point, surely is. 208 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:53,040 It I just need to have the accidental dread and then what's 209 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:54,720 what's? That had children at the same 210 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:55,400 time as well. Yeah. 211 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:58,120 Inspired by this podcast. Yeah. 212 00:07:58,200 --> 00:07:59,920 Because we talked all the time and we decided we both want 213 00:07:59,920 --> 00:08:00,800 children at the same time. Yeah. 214 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:02,840 I don't know why, but there we are. 215 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:05,000 Both our children being Bivar as well. 216 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:06,920 Everyone asks is that on purpose? 217 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:08,360 No. Yes. 218 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:11,480 Not on purpose, we just think the same. 219 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:14,960 But how's your week been anyway? Other than tiny, yeah. 220 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:17,720 Yeah, good. I suppose I just want to talk a 221 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:20,240 little bit about it's not, it's not an existential thing, but 222 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:22,400 it's just the thing that really plays in my mind as a teacher in 223 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:25,760 education because you think about why you get into teaching, 224 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:28,320 right? And it's remember your why and 225 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:29,800 it's patronising when it makes. You. 226 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:31,760 I'm sat there thinking it's the money baby. 227 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:36,559 Or not, but but genuinely, the reason you want to want to be a 228 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:40,480 teacher is because you want to help the children that that is 229 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:42,720 the bottom line. You want to be able to do your 230 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:45,160 job in a way which helps the next generation to understand 231 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:47,280 things that are important and and help them out and be that 232 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:49,640 safe space for them. So I think this has been 233 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:51,720 something on my mind honestly since day one. 234 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:55,040 It wasn't something that I was AECT and I wasn't sure a newly 235 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:57,320 qualified teacher what this meant from the start. 236 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:00,960 It felt wrong and it was this obsession that we have as 237 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:05,400 teachers about data. OK, so we can talk about that 238 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:07,920 whole conversation about whether data is important or not and why 239 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:10,360 it is and why it isn't. Sometimes let's just park that 240 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:12,640 for a second, but I'm talking very specifically now. 241 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:17,960 We create bars and levels to get to for our children to be able 242 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:23,040 to say that this child is expected in maths, this child is 243 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:25,960 expected in English and we say that's their age expectation. 244 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:27,920 That's what we should be driving children towards. 245 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:32,680 We are obsessed with it to the detriment of so many kids in our 246 00:09:32,680 --> 00:09:34,800 class. Because what ends up happening, 247 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:36,960 and you know, correct me if I'm wrong here, if your school does 248 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:38,560 something different, but most schools are like this. 249 00:09:38,560 --> 00:09:42,680 And I can see why you're in a people progress meeting and 250 00:09:42,680 --> 00:09:45,240 you've got, let's say 32 children in your class. 251 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:50,600 And immediately what happens is you are forced to focus down and 252 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:53,720 magnify on the children around this line that you've invented 253 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:56,760 yourself to be age expected. OK, so let's say in maths it's 254 00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:59,640 that they've got to do this specific standardised test and 255 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:01,760 achieve this specific mark for you to be able to call this 256 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:03,600 child expected. In maths, you've already 257 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:04,880 narrowed down what maths becomes. 258 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:07,040 Then maths becomes some judging children on what they get in 259 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:09,120 this test at the end. So you get rid of everything 260 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:12,040 else to do in maths in terms of the problem solving, the the 261 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:15,200 investigations, getting things wrong, being resilient, none of 262 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:17,000 that matters anymore. They've got to get here in a 263 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:20,520 test that's already narrowed down, which then you look at 264 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:23,840 your class and you can honestly narrow it down to like 6 kids 265 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:25,080 who are on the cusp of this line. 266 00:10:25,560 --> 00:10:28,720 And those six children then become your forced focus to get 267 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:31,880 over that line. And what happens is the children 268 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:35,240 who are past that line or have moved past that line in a year, 269 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:36,440 suddenly they're like, cool, right? 270 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:39,200 They're there, forget about them, they're there now, that's 271 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:40,640 fine. They've made this two points of 272 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:42,520 progress past the line, so that's OK, that's good. 273 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:44,880 Those kids who are just below the line, are they your focus? 274 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:47,720 Those kids who are way back behind this imaginary line we 275 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:50,120 put for age expected, they're never going to get there. 276 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,200 So just plod along with them I suppose, see where they get, but 277 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:55,520 put your focus on these kids who are closer to this line and 278 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:58,680 those kids way past the line who are pushing on to making greater 279 00:10:58,680 --> 00:11:00,240 depth for getting full marks in their maths. 280 00:11:00,560 --> 00:11:01,760 Cool, just let them crack on with that. 281 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:03,160 That's great. They don't need as much support 282 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:06,280 and you become hyper focused as a teacher or forced to be anyway 283 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:08,640 on 20% of your kids. Yeah. 284 00:11:08,680 --> 00:11:14,000 And I absolutely hate it because why on earth should a 10% move 285 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:18,400 for those kids be worth more than a 3040% move for your kids 286 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:21,080 who are even lower or a 1020% move for your kids who are 287 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:23,400 higher simply because of this line that we've made-up? 288 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:24,280 Yeah. Yeah. 289 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:27,040 It winds me up. It's not that progress isn't 290 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:29,280 more important than the progress of everyone else. 291 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:31,920 And I think in general, I think that I'm just fed up with 292 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:34,880 constantly being given a brand new list of children who are 293 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:36,400 just on the cusp of something that we've invented. 294 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:38,040 And we've said it's important because of XY reason. 295 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:40,240 Just getting past that line, it's like, do you know what? 296 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:41,280 Do you know what I'm actually going to do? 297 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:42,760 And I've done this for years and years now. 298 00:11:43,560 --> 00:11:45,840 I'm going to ignore that list and I'm just going to teach well 299 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:47,320 and help every child who needs help. 300 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:50,560 And if it comes to an intervention after a lesson, if 301 00:11:50,560 --> 00:11:52,280 there's a group of kids who don't understand why I did that 302 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:55,280 lesson, I'm going to keep them in the assembly time to do 303 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:58,000 betters to work for that lesson. I'm not going to go to my list 304 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:00,240 and be like, I've got to make up something because this list of 305 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:02,080 children need some extra help. So I'm just going to ignore you 306 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:04,320 guys who don't get it today. I'm going to get this list of 307 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:06,240 five children and give them this thing because I need to get them 308 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:07,320 past this imaginary line. Please. 309 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:10,160 I don't care. It is a detriment to my 310 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:12,560 teaching. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's tricky. 311 00:12:12,560 --> 00:12:17,240 I think I'm so I'm so into the year 6 world that like hearing 312 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:19,320 you say this is like is like a memory for me. 313 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:22,600 It's like unlocking a memory. I feel like I've not lost my 314 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:27,200 way, but I feel so indoctrinated into that game that it's kind of 315 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:28,680 refreshing to hear this because I remember. 316 00:12:28,680 --> 00:12:31,760 I remember thinking all of it. I remember thinking, this is 317 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:34,120 mad. Why am I not just helping the 318 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:37,280 lowest ability children at all times of any extra stuff I've 319 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:38,760 got? Why am I ever putting if I've 320 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:40,640 only got a small amount of resources to use? 321 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:43,600 Why am I not only helping the kids who don't get it the most? 322 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:45,640 The kids who can't add, maybe because that's vitally 323 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:48,760 important, but also you're not helping the kids who are just 324 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:50,760 OK. I think that's the thing that 325 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:52,720 gets forgotten all the time. People have this conversation. 326 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:55,080 I'll say what you say. I yeah, I agree I should be 327 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:57,280 helping the lowest children. And my point is, yeah, you 328 00:12:57,280 --> 00:12:58,440 should. But do you know what you should 329 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:00,920 also not do? Ignore every single child in 330 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:04,200 your class because just because they can do some maths now, 331 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:07,160 right, it doesn't necessarily mean that their progress is less 332 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:09,640 important. I, I, I completely understand 333 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:11,640 before someone gets annoyed at me and says, well, if you can't 334 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:12,760 add, you've got to be able to add. 335 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:14,680 Or if you can't read, you've got to be able to read. 336 00:13:14,680 --> 00:13:16,480 I'm like, yeah, but I'm not even doing that because I've got to 337 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:18,880 get to this age expected line. With these other mildly kids. 338 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:21,680 How many kids in Key Stage 2 actually can't read? 339 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:23,840 Do you know what I mean? Like most kids can read. 340 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:24,840 There are some children who can't. 341 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:26,800 They need explicit intervention ASAP. 342 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:30,280 But most kids who aren't at age expected level, they can read. 343 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:32,360 Do you know what I mean? They can decode words, they're 344 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:34,000 just not at the level at the. Bar that we've set. 345 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:36,880 Exactly not at that bar that we've set is important for age. 346 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:38,480 I agree. I agree what you're you're 347 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:40,760 saying in terms of the lowest, but I just my my point is 348 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:43,640 everyone. I think 80% of kids can honestly 349 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:47,400 get missed in a school because when you're so data-driven by 350 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:49,360 lines that we have literally invented. 351 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:51,240 Ourselves, Especially when the lines are so arbitrary. 352 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:54,240 Like you're going back to your point about test data, right? 353 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:56,120 And it normally is, isn't it? Let's be honest, it's normally 354 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:59,280 they need to achieve X amount of marks in a series of tests. 355 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:01,680 And for year six it's normally the SAT which is standardised, 356 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:04,240 but even in the other year groups it becomes whatever you 357 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:06,840 pick as your end of year test. Of course, which is even worse, 358 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:08,600 But even with year 6 alone, right? 359 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:12,320 One of my biggest pet peeves is the fact that when you put up 360 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:15,760 just a mark threshold on a test, it does mean that there are now 361 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:17,360 infinite ways for someone to get there. 362 00:14:17,680 --> 00:14:19,920 And it doesn't really, it doesn't really value like what 363 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:21,280 being a good mathematician is, for example. 364 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:22,960 Sure, right. I could, you could have, you 365 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:25,160 could get a honestly, it's going to sound horrible. 366 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:27,120 You could get a terrible mathematician through the SAS. 367 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:28,960 Yeah, because you know what, you could look at it. 368 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:31,200 You look at the analysis again. Sophie does all the analysis 369 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:32,800 every year, doesn't she? And there's loads of great 370 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:33,800 insights. You can see. 371 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:35,520 I think she does it through learning my questions and other 372 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:36,480 websites. It's really good stuff. 373 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,480 But but you can look at that and be like, oh, so you can pass 374 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:41,600 these tests just knowing fractions, decimals and 375 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:45,000 percentages and arithmetic. OK, cool, eight in the 376 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:46,280 curriculum, then not going to teach that. 377 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:49,440 And it's like, OK, so they would get through and they would be 378 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:50,520 expected. But are they a good 379 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:52,360 mathematician? Absolutely not by any other 380 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:53,320 metric. No, they're not. 381 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:54,920 They don't even know what Alder is. 382 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:57,320 How can you say they're age expected because they passed 383 00:14:57,320 --> 00:14:59,400 this test? OK, well, we've got very 384 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,000 different ideas then of what we think a good mathematician is 385 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:03,480 that by the time you're 11, don't we? 386 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:05,640 If if you think that passing that test is it. 387 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:08,160 And I think actually just knowing a bit more about the 388 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:11,440 measurement and geometry and and and shape and time, algebra and 389 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:13,840 time, I think they need to know a bit of all of that actually to 390 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:16,400 be considered even at a base level of good at maths. 391 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:17,440 Yeah. But those percentage point 392 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:20,000 there, that is what it becomes and it winds me up slightly 393 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:22,920 because I can see the trap happening. 394 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:24,280 That's why it winds me up even more. 395 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,480 I can see why people go down this route and I completely 396 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:29,760 understand it. But for me, it's especially in 397 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:32,360 those years other than year 6. I get why when it comes to the 398 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:34,680 SAT, it's your, it's your headline data in your league 399 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:36,720 tables for your score. I completely understand it. 400 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:38,920 I'm not digging out any leadership team who who think 401 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:40,000 that's important. I get it. 402 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:43,040 But it's just frustrating and a bit mind numbing when it happens 403 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:45,960 in year 3 and it happens in year 4 and it's an end of year 404 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:47,480 assessment test that you've chosen. 405 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:49,920 You could have chosen from 57 different tests that you've done 406 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:52,120 and the line could have been slightly different all the time 407 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:55,520 and it becomes annoyingly lower down in the school. 408 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:58,240 Like you say, you look at it and you go, OK, let's stick with 409 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:00,200 maths. For example, you could get a 410 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:04,880 mathematician who you've drilled to be really good at arithmetic, 411 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:06,840 and arithmetic's really important, Don't get me wrong. 412 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:10,320 I focus on arithmetic of my children because I know it's 413 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:13,520 what they need to be able to do every single time. 414 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:14,680 Yeah. And we do some reasoning. 415 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:16,040 Problem solving. We reasoning all the time. 416 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:19,080 We do problem solving, I'd say less frequently than other 417 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:21,360 children might, simply because we're spending so much time 418 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:22,720 getting better at the. Absolutely. 419 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:23,480 Exactly. Yeah. 420 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:25,320 But I can get children free to expected. 421 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:28,200 Yeah. Four level by getting them to be 422 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:32,160 36 out of 40 or more and then just doing the reasoning a 423 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:34,320 problem solving paper and kind of getting like 5 out of 30. 424 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:36,080 Getting a few of the easy ones. A few of the easy ones might 425 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:37,560 where they got to match up some place value. 426 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:41,600 At no point have they got any of the, you know, complicated 2 two 427 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:43,760 step word problems, right? None of the measuring stuff, 428 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:45,320 right. The fraction stuff, they're 429 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:47,760 honestly working like 2030% of the problem solving bits. 430 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:50,120 It's hard. Anything that combines it or 431 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:52,840 looks at shape, for example, I just have a go see what you get. 432 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:55,480 But at the end, they will say expected, Yeah. 433 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:56,840 And, you know, and you'll get a pound back. 434 00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:59,080 Exactly. And then someone who's expected, 435 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:02,000 right at the top end of expected, who got so many more 436 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:04,520 of those questions right, is still just expected, who knows a 437 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:07,640 lot more about a wider range of areas in math, who is a much 438 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:09,920 better mathematician. But do you know what? 439 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:13,280 The child who's just below expected and the child who's 440 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,440 just above expected, they should be getting the same intervention 441 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:19,720 and help because what's currently happening is the child 442 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:22,240 who's just above expected and the child who's at the top of 443 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:24,800 expected are seen as expected. Both put in the same category. 444 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:25,839 No, you don't need any extra help. 445 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:29,400 They are so much more different than the ones either side of 446 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:30,680 this arbitrary line that we've made-up. 447 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:33,320 And that's the trap We fall in this teachers all the time. 448 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:36,280 And this is a very long window of me saying way of me saying 449 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:39,200 that this is how data drives bad practise. 450 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:41,840 It's so funny you mentioned this as your kind of like your weekly 451 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:43,680 recap because one of my questions later in that sort of 452 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:46,440 main bulk is related to that. So we'll come back to that. 453 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:49,000 You, when I say it, you'll be like, Oh yeah, is very linked to 454 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,760 something when I asked you about simplicity, about losing our way 455 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:54,000 as teachers and the purpose of things. 456 00:17:54,360 --> 00:17:56,160 So do stick around for that conversation because it should 457 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:57,280 be a good one. And you've actually panned the 458 00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:59,280 podcast episode for the first time and I think nearly 100. 459 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:02,680 So that's not a. 100 yet because we're in on the episode 98. 460 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:05,000 Yeah. OK, shut up. 461 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:09,400 Right, I want to be riled up by you. 462 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:10,680 No to you. I want you to. 463 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:11,880 Yeah, that's. Good, because I've got that 464 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:13,400 ready. You've got a little riled up for 465 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:15,360 me ready. It's a section that's becoming a 466 00:18:15,360 --> 00:18:18,320 bit more frequent. It's funny, yeah. 467 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:20,880 You seem to really revel in it. And unbelievably, like I said, 468 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:22,400 it's making you prepare stuff for the podcast. 469 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:23,480 It is. And I and I just. 470 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:25,040 I'm desperate for you to embarrass yourself. 471 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:26,200 OK. You know, I'm desperate for you 472 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:27,320 to say. I'm desperate to get so 473 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:28,400 passionate that you embarrass yourself. 474 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:29,400 And we all go, ha, ha. Look at you. 475 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:30,360 Yeah. And you want me to get 476 00:18:30,360 --> 00:18:31,480 cancelled, so yeah. And you get. 477 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:35,520 Cancelled new presenter in probably Sophie the Robot and 478 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:36,840 we'll crack on. I don't know he'll be planning 479 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:37,800 it. Then and we start making, we'll 480 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,720 make this podcast good. Yeah, OK, we'll run our socials. 481 00:18:41,360 --> 00:18:42,880 Whatever right here? What's the context here? 482 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:44,240 Just online for me. Just online. 483 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:46,280 I just, I just see things online all the time and I'm like, oh, 484 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:48,160 that's interesting. Interesting question there. 485 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:50,400 It's always anonymous, so I don't know who these people are. 486 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:53,600 Someone said they've got year group meetings during PPA. 487 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:56,560 Just wait because I know you're already, I can already see you 488 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:59,200 deceiving. Year group meetings during PPA 489 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:01,840 at my school were regularly directed to do certain tasks. 490 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:04,040 In that time. I've never been too bothered 491 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:06,040 because I felt like if we didn't do it then we'd only have to do 492 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:07,920 it after school anyway. That does come into touch. 493 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:10,120 Which is a fairpoint or during lunch or something like that. 494 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:12,320 However, it occurred to me today that this does mean that the 495 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:14,400 meetings don't show up as directed time on our calendar, 496 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:16,040 right? It's hidden. 497 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,000 Recently, we've been also directed to do tasks in the 498 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:21,040 morning of our PPA. So I don't always have time to 499 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:25,480 do what I actually planned to do in the spare time in my PPA 500 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:27,480 after this meeting. And it's beginning to annoy me. 501 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:28,840 I don't know what I should do. What should I do? 502 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:31,120 Well, I'm going to call you out immediately on something you did 503 00:19:31,120 --> 00:19:33,440 last week, which was when you mentioned the four day week 504 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:36,000 thing, you said there's a school who's gone to four days a week 505 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:37,400 and teachers get the 5th day off. 506 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,160 And I was like, it's not off because they've got to do work. 507 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:42,600 They get the fifth way to the fifth day to do work. 508 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:45,760 They've got to do. So when we're talking about PPAI 509 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:50,480 think so many of these problems stem from the idea that it's 510 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:54,360 off, the idea that it's a, it's a favour we had. 511 00:19:54,360 --> 00:19:59,560 We had a message, a comment this week about how someone said I 512 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:01,440 did something about how PPA should be flexible, should be 513 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:02,560 able to take it from home, blah blah, blah. 514 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:05,400 Someone commented really annoyed saying, oh, and teachers never 515 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,200 bloody think about who's covering their PPA, do they? 516 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,040 They always just desperately obsessed with wanting their PPA 517 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:12,960 and whoever is covering it, who's thinking about the 518 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:15,840 children and their safety and the HLTA who have to cover it. 519 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:17,440 And I was like, yeah, that's not our problem. 520 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:21,760 I'm sorry, in the, I'm sure you've got some very, you know, 521 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:23,640 adequate grievances that are fine. 522 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:25,480 Yeah. It's not our problem though. 523 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:28,720 And if you're scrambling to cover for PPA every week, that's 524 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:30,600 an SLT problem. And your school problem to. 525 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:34,520 Be honest, yours exactly that because 99% of schools from what 526 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:37,440 I've heard have a bit of a system in place, at least PPA 527 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:41,400 and it is sacred. Anyway, this, this person is the 528 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:43,800 PPA is being used incorrectly. Do you know what I mean? 529 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:46,200 This person has to go to their union and say something because 530 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:49,680 PPA is not time off. PPA is not a favour. 531 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:52,360 PPA is not something where you can go, well, it's OK actually 532 00:20:52,360 --> 00:20:54,240 I've got PPA that day, so I'm sure they won't mind doing a 533 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:56,040 meeting. Oh, I'll just look in a parent 534 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:57,920 meeting that day because there's PPA, there's some free time. 535 00:20:57,920 --> 00:20:59,960 They've got time. It's not free time. 536 00:20:59,960 --> 00:21:01,800 Let me make this extremely clear. 537 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:05,120 The amount of work teachers have to do outside of the classroom 538 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:08,360 just to be able to deliver their work in of the classroom in the 539 00:21:08,360 --> 00:21:11,960 first place, it is much more than the time they're allocated 540 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:15,040 for that planning, preparation and assessment in their PPA 541 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:18,920 time. So anything you put into PPA 542 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,040 that takes time away from your teachers being able to do that 543 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:26,120 is adding time onto the teachers free time where they'll have to 544 00:21:26,120 --> 00:21:28,960 complete that work. If you have 4 hours of work a 545 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,480 week to do outside of the classroom and you get 2 hours of 546 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:34,400 PPA, you get 2 hours you've got to do outside of the classroom. 547 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:35,920 Completely normal. Often more. 548 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,080 If you put an hour meeting in that PPA, guess what? 549 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:41,320 That four hours of work still has to get done. 550 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:44,080 So that is an extra hour now that I've got to do at the 551 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:46,840 weekend. It's not acceptable, It's not 552 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,480 fine. PPA is sacred, and the only 553 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:52,520 thing we should be working towards as a whole staff is not 554 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:54,960 gaslighting teachers into thinking they're the problem 555 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:56,760 because they want their PPA protected. 556 00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:00,120 It's actually working together with teachers to try and make 557 00:22:00,120 --> 00:22:02,440 whatever extra work they've got to do outside of the classroom 558 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:05,160 actually fit into that time we're given to do the job. 559 00:22:05,360 --> 00:22:09,080 So stop putting the onus on teachers from wanting their PPA 560 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:11,520 time to be sacred and to have at least 10%. 561 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:15,840 At least 10%, by the way, not, not any less, because an 562 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:18,440 afternoon is often not even 10% because the morning's so much 563 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:20,320 longer. But we should be working 564 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:23,320 together to make it work. Stop gaslighting teachers. 565 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,840 Stop making them feel bad. It's not time off. 566 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:28,160 It's time they literally need to be able to deliver the bulk of 567 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:29,720 their own job. That's really important. 568 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:31,240 Wow. Well, thank you, Shakespeare. 569 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:32,760 That was a monologue and 1/2 that wasn't it. 570 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:34,200 Crikey. Really good. 571 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:35,600 Yeah, very interesting. I totally agree. 572 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:37,720 But what would you say to the one point in there which I 573 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:40,000 thought was very like, I can see where teachers would think, 574 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:44,880 which was about the meetings being other times. 575 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:47,360 So the meeting in PPA he was like or she I don't know, his 576 00:22:47,360 --> 00:22:49,600 person was. If I don't do it now, I only 577 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:50,800 have to do it another time anyway. 578 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:52,000 Yeah. If you what do you think about 579 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:53,520 that If you've got a group meeting, not a star. 580 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:54,760 Yeah. If you've got to meet with your 581 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:58,040 group, whatever reason, it does make sense to do it in PPA. 582 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,040 Yeah, right. But that has to be a decision 583 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:01,200 that you will make. OK. 584 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,560 I remember I worked in a school once where it was from the top 585 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:07,280 down, you have to have AU group meeting every week and in one 586 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,520 hour and 1 hour and it was after school and that was on top of 587 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,400 your hour week of training. That is completely wrong. 588 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,080 That is not something that I think is acceptable because 589 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:17,520 you're putting the onus on and you've got to do an hour 590 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:19,880 meeting, OK. What it should be is just you're 591 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:23,080 working with your year group team as a teacher who's doing 592 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:24,920 their planning, preparation and assessment. 593 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,240 If you and your team decide that it's beneficial to get together 594 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,440 to help with that planning because then it's more 595 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:31,720 efficient. We're all on the same page. 596 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:33,960 Maybe you're sharing planning so you end up doing less anyway. 597 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,920 There should be no time on it. We often, we often meet with our 598 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,640 year group in PPA for honestly 10 minutes or less at the start 599 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:44,560 of every PPA. It's almost like a let's get our 600 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:46,080 heads together. We don't often get time to sit 601 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:47,600 in the same room because we're so busy teaching. 602 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:49,960 Let's get our heads together. Any notices we need to know 603 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,440 about and if I don't know about it, it will have much of A 604 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:56,200 detrimental impact later. I'm, I'm completely like, I want 605 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:58,480 those meetings. I want to use my PPA for that 606 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:02,040 because it helps me when it becomes just simply, well, SLT 607 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,000 have given us an agenda that we've got to get through because 608 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:05,960 we're a year group meeting and we have to do it in our PPA. 609 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:08,920 That's when it becomes wrong. And if at any point, right, I 610 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,520 could go to my head of year and I could say I'm so sorry. 611 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:13,240 I'm. I'm completely swamped. 612 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,560 I've been asked to do this. I'm just going to crack on with 613 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:17,200 this. Could you please just e-mail me 614 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:17,960 these points? Yeah. 615 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:19,440 Do you know what my year group leader would say? 616 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:20,320 Oh, yeah, of course. Yeah, of. 617 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:21,960 Course, because yeah, it's not directed. 618 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:22,880 Yeah, exactly. It's not. 619 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:24,040 I agree. I I think it's been an 620 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:25,800 interesting thought experiment, having worked in a school, but 621 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:29,760 also did an hour set, very set hour rigid. 622 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:31,800 You have to do AE group meeting and now and now working in a 623 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:33,880 school where that's the E group meetings are not, they're not 624 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:35,280 even talked about. They're just some people do and 625 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:36,560 some people don't like it doesn't even matter. 626 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:37,600 They're just not a thing. Right. 627 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:39,960 I'd like to do a thought experiment with people maybe 628 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:43,040 that do have that set time. Maybe it's an hour, maybe it's 629 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:44,880 half an hour, but whatever. A set time a week where it's 630 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:46,360 like a you have to have a year group meeting. 631 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,480 How much of that year group meeting could be scrapped? 632 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:52,800 How much of that you group meeting could honestly just turn 633 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:54,280 into a passing conversation in the corridor? 634 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,080 How much that you group meeting could just be an e-mail from 635 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:58,680 your head of year? And I I because my personal 636 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:00,640 feeling is having gone from a school that did it to a school 637 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:02,160 that didn't do it. I don't feel like I've lost 638 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,800 anything. Every single thing we did in 639 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:06,720 those you group meetings. I now just do just in the 640 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:08,640 morning walking past. Oh, we've done this thing for 641 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:09,840 today. Oh yeah, Thanks for reminding me 642 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:11,240 that spend 5 minutes in the morning then go. 643 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:12,320 It's adding to my little list. That's fine. 644 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,960 I've done that now three days later in at lunchtime. 645 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,280 Or did you did you see that or I put it through? 646 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,160 I got I emailed it to you. Oh yeah, check it out later. 647 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,560 I'll do it this afternoon. You just it just turns into like 648 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:24,600 part of the job. Not it doesn't need to be and me 649 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,080 are wasting an hour of my PPA or wasting an hour after school. 650 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,160 I just I just I reckon I can't imagine there's many of you out 651 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,240 there if you are doing it an hour year group meeting that 652 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:34,960 that disagree of that and think no, no, we definitely that hour 653 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,560 is essential that I sit there exclusively doing that for an 654 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:39,160 hour. I doubt it. 655 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:42,320 No, I completely agree. And I think I think it has to 656 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,000 come from the teacher. Is it useful for the teachers? 657 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,480 If the answer's yes, then call. And if it becomes scatty like 658 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:50,960 you're saying, yeah, in terms of I can imagine that can become 659 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,040 quite a scatty situation where things are forgotten. 660 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:54,120 Yeah, sure. Use e-mail. 661 00:25:54,120 --> 00:25:55,440 Yeah. Honestly, just do a bullet point 662 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:59,000 e-mail or have like have some kind of notice board, genuinely, 663 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:00,840 in your year group, have some notice board. 664 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:02,640 Maybe it's in your year group leaders classroom. 665 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:04,720 Yeah, whatever it might be. Or in your shared area, if 666 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,520 you've got one, just just have a way of just writing things down 667 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:09,520 where you don't all have to be in the same room for half an 668 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:11,120 hour. You know, it can just be like 669 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:13,440 I've updated the board or sent an e-mail or we've got this to 670 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:14,720 do I think in this ways around. Yeah. 671 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:16,480 And then if something is essential, guess what? 672 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:17,520 In PPA, you just do what you did. 673 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:19,400 You just spend 3 minutes talking to your team. 674 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:21,480 Yeah, if you need to. Which as teachers, we're not. 675 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:22,920 We're not against that. Doesn't matter, we're not 676 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:24,360 against that. Yeah, anyway, so there we go. 677 00:26:24,360 --> 00:26:25,680 I thought that was an interesting one. 678 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,120 But yeah, I think protect your PPA time, fight for it. 679 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,040 My advice would be if they have any, if they have something to 680 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:32,800 say about that, of you saying, oh, actually it's undirected 681 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:33,960 time, then you're in a toxic school. 682 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:35,440 So at that point, don't care about it. 683 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:36,840 Just do what you need to do at that point. 684 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,480 If they're toxic, then don't care about their feelings 685 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:40,800 because they don't care about yours. 686 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:42,800 So just fight the fight. That's the way to. 687 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:44,280 There we are. Anyway, you've got you've been 688 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:45,800 saying to me all week about some stories. 689 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:46,720 Yeah. On Instagram. 690 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:47,560 Yeah. Have you got them? 691 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,720 Well, basically since we've had the big boom in numbers in the 692 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,040 last few weeks, so has the amount of messages that we've 693 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:54,840 been getting right. And I think these two messages 694 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,840 perfectly summarised something we said last week, which was how 695 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,120 schools are so different. So I'm going to read them out. 696 00:27:00,120 --> 00:27:02,800 There's 2 here. Here's the first one, showing 697 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:04,960 how schools can be amazing. OK. 698 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:06,800 All right. So just listening to this week's 699 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:08,760 podcast, I really want to share what my school are doing. 700 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:13,880 Last year my school implemented a whole day of PPA from home and 701 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,160 have continued it this academic year. 702 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,920 On that day children do Forest school PE and art. 703 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:23,080 Really great for the kids. I think they have invested money 704 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,520 in an art studio with an art specialist teacher. 705 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,160 What our head teacher told us this at the time. 706 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:32,320 Use this day off to ensure your well-being is taken care of as 707 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:34,680 long as you get the work done because you're professionals and 708 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:38,880 I trust you, do what you like. If you want to work late 33 709 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,840 evenings a week and have the day off, then just do that. 710 00:27:42,120 --> 00:27:44,440 If you want to take your kids to Chessington for the day and then 711 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,760 work on Sunday, do that. If you want to use it to ensure 712 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,320 you do not work at the weekends, do that as well. 713 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:54,160 As well as this, we get subject release time twice a term 714 00:27:54,360 --> 00:27:57,520 separate to these PPA days. I'm not going to say it's been 715 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,400 complete magic and it's just completely fixed education, but 716 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,720 my goodness, it's been refreshing to work in a school 717 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,400 where you're actually treated like professionals and trusted 718 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,480 to do your job. We need more, We need more. 719 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,120 If you work in a school like this, please write in more 720 00:28:10,120 --> 00:28:11,400 because I tell you what, it gives me hope. 721 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:13,480 I I sometimes feel like there's no hope. 722 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,000 And hearing that makes me feel, I feel giddy. 723 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,000 I feel so good because, oh, my God, there's a head teacher out 724 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,160 there that's doing the thing that I said I would do if I was 725 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:20,800 a head teacher. Yeah. 726 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:22,320 Someone doing that. Yeah, absolutely. 727 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:23,720 It's so exciting. And and do you know what? 728 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:25,440 Someone summed it up, I can't remember where I saw this the 729 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,000 other day, and it was saying that teachers are not selfish 730 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,920 creatures. The more you give to teachers, 731 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:32,560 the more they will give you back. 732 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:34,320 Yeah. If you invest like this in your 733 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,600 teaching staff, your children will get more out of it and it 734 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:37,720 will be a better school in general. 735 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:39,480 Yeah. That's one thing to add to this. 736 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:41,680 Incredible. Because afterwards, you know, 737 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,640 I've got, let's say, a bee in my bonnet, but about Academy 738 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:46,160 trusts. And I thought, you know what? 739 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,040 This. To be fair, this sounds like 740 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:51,160 something an Academy trust could do because they've got the big 741 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,200 budget, maybe everyone goes on about how its economies of 742 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,680 scale, etcetera. She messaged after to say she's 743 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:57,040 also working for a local authority school. 744 00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:57,720 It's not. That isn't. 745 00:28:57,720 --> 00:28:59,360 That is not a SO. It's not a trust. 746 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:01,480 It's not something, sadly. Well, I've seen what we can do. 747 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:03,240 Yeah, we can do it wherever, wherever, around. 748 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,640 It doesn't have to be part of a trust where the CEO is taking 749 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:07,600 20% of the. Budget you'd expect the caveat 750 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:09,720 to be, and we get all this because they don't pay any of 751 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:11,560 the staff correctly. So we've got this budget to have 752 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:12,840 this art studio. But that is another thing 753 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,240 though, in the, you know, in, in, in the dream world, we'd all 754 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,600 have the budget to have an art studio and a forest school and 755 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:18,760 specialist teachers to come and do that. 756 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:20,920 Most local authority schools don't have it. 757 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:23,200 I don't know why, I don't know what, I don't know how budgeting 758 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,000 works, but I. Reckon it can happen? 759 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:26,560 For a lot. But it is a reality for 760 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,200 somewhere, so it must. It must be a way to make that 761 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:30,960 happen. Yeah, so it, it really is 762 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:32,240 incredible. Sorry, I'm just trying to make 763 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,600 sure I can breathe because my, are you right? 764 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,080 My nose currently has what feels like a valve at the top because 765 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,320 I can't breathe properly. So anyone listening, I'm so 766 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:41,680 sorry if I sound like a, a machine malfunctioning. 767 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,640 And so we've got that, that I, I read that and I was like, do you 768 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:45,840 know what? I've got hope. 769 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:47,760 What an amazing thing for education system. 770 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,760 Then I went to TikTok and had another message from someone 771 00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:52,840 very, very much. By the way, I appreciate you 772 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:54,960 sending this message. I appreciate all messages, but 773 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,200 when they're a bit more, you know, this is a bad thing that 774 00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:58,960 happened to me. I do appreciate someone putting 775 00:29:58,960 --> 00:29:59,800 their heart on the sleeve like that. 776 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:01,680 So thank you. Obviously going to remain 777 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,560 anonymous. I was a student in what I 778 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,880 thought was a fantastic school and I even went to this primary 779 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,360 school and knew how good it was. I was successful in a job 780 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:15,440 interview and unfortunately due to a number of factors I was 781 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:19,320 left as an ECT as leader of supply. 782 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,560 So sorting out all supply as well as being given a subject 783 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,240 responsibility of maths, something at the time that he 784 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,240 thought was an amazing privilege and you can frame it away for a 785 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,160 new teacher like wow you're in charge of maths. 786 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,560 However you know obviously by the end he knew what was 787 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:35,440 happening. He was also seen as the young 1, 788 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:39,160 so any IT problems came straight to him and as a result was also 789 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,400 given IT coordinator. Oh my God. 790 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:45,960 So a brand new teacher given maths lead huge job, ICT lead 791 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:49,440 just because they can unplug AHDMI cable and also then leader 792 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,720 of supply and helping his other EC TS as well. 793 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,320 OK huge responsibilities. So at 21 years of old he was 794 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:59,080 head of maths, head of computing, head of PE and unit 795 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:02,480 leader for two other EC TS as well as being one himself. 796 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:06,360 In his first year he had a verbal altercation with a parent 797 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:12,200 when the mother of the child in question said effing pointless 798 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:14,800 and useless why the F are you a teacher? 799 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:17,800 Which then led to her coming into the playground and out of 800 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,600 nowhere, slapping slash, punching a closed fist kind of 801 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:23,960 slap in the face. No. 802 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,560 I don't want to put future teachers off because it is fun 803 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:29,000 in so many ways, and when it's fun it's amazing. 804 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:30,720 But something has to change, doesn't it? 805 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,320 I I can't fathom that. There's so much to unpack. 806 00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:37,040 Firstly, is he the only teacher at this school? 807 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:39,520 And doing every job I know I know, apart from never 2 EC 808 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:40,920 teachers. Isn't Yeah, yeah, of course. 809 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:42,600 Oh my God, that's insane. Like. 810 00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:44,960 But I wonder people quit. Do you not see the the two the 811 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,200 two like problems there? Like in terms of how amazing 812 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:50,160 schools are, the first school, unbelievable the way that that 813 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:52,600 school treated their new staff like, don't you think? 814 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,080 I think personally when you're in ECT because it's a two year 815 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,560 thing now, those two years should be spent either shadowing 816 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:00,600 someone to learn what they're doing in a maybe in a role they 817 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:02,880 want to be master lead one day, call shadow the actual master 818 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:04,840 lead. Then just shadow them and 819 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,800 learning to teach. Get better at teaching. 820 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,280 They were obviously desperate for filling these roles for 821 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:11,320 whatever reason. But why? 822 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,000 I mean, say something. Yeah, that's I mean, it's almost 823 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:15,800 ironic, isn't it? Because clearly it's the fact 824 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,240 that they did that to that ACT probably shows why they didn't 825 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:20,040 have an athlete in the 1st place because people don't clearly 826 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:21,200 don't want to work to place like that. 827 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:23,960 And if you know, you know, what with the parent thing is 828 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:27,080 rubbish, but it's kind of like that's a little bit more out of 829 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,400 your control in terms of you can't, you can't change the 830 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:30,880 catchment that you're in, if you know what I mean. 831 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,640 You can, you can help to uplift the the area, but like the 832 00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:37,080 catchment, what I'm trying to say here is it's so vastly 833 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,120 different where you end up working, what kind of catchment 834 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,000 you're in and what kind of parents you might be serving. 835 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,080 Yeah, but I think you get parents like that wherever, just 836 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,040 unhinged parents who are. So yeah, of course you get. 837 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:47,320 I remember working quite an affluent area and I had parents 838 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,440 who were on at me more than ever constantly saying why you doing 839 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:51,960 this, my child? Why you doing that for my child? 840 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,000 My child should get this. My child should get that and I 841 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,080 get my parents defend their children and treat teachers like 842 00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:58,000 rubbish. But to close. 843 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,280 School. No no to close fist someone hit 844 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:03,480 like like this, but the school should then be absolutely on it 845 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:05,600 immediately on your side banning that person, getting the 846 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,440 authorities involved. I'm hoping they did that. 847 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,360 Yeah, well, apparently at the time that he's this guy was 848 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,400 saying how he just wasn't in a position where he felt confident 849 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:14,760 to him. No, that's disgusting. 850 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:16,600 Then that is disgusting. Like because you didn't mention 851 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:18,440 that. I just assumed in that part the 852 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:20,280 best happened. I'm assuming that parent was 853 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:23,200 banned from the school. Yeah, but maybe not, maybe not 854 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:24,440 that. I mean that would be that would 855 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:26,080 be honestly discussed. That's that point. 856 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:27,240 I'm like, okay, get police involved. 857 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:28,800 That's mental. That's not even like a school 858 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:30,600 thing anymore. That is a you've been assaulted 859 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:32,560 by by another person. That is ridiculous. 860 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:33,960 Yeah, I feel sorry for that person. 861 00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:35,520 Go work in the other school that we had in the 1st. 862 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,760 Story, but doesn't that just show in general? 863 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:40,680 I know there's more to that story, but the the point of 864 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,240 being the difference in schools, yeah, absolutely. 865 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,800 From one school to another, you've got 74 different pieces 866 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,080 of workload to do on top of just learning how to be a teacher. 867 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:49,800 And then the other one, you've got a head teacher going. 868 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:51,080 Do you want to go to Chessington on Friday? 869 00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:55,760 Paid the same mad broken, broken job. 870 00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,280 Absolutely crazy, by the way. I just thought I'd show you 871 00:33:58,280 --> 00:33:58,920 that. I thought it was very 872 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:00,600 interesting. Shall we get into the main bar 873 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:02,200 for this episode? You have been doing a lot of 874 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:06,680 thinking about simplicity and how it seems to be missing from 875 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:11,600 my education system. So funny enough, earlier on in 876 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:13,560 the podcast, I said, oh, didn't you've mentioned something that 877 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:15,760 I'm going to ask you later? And my first question in this 878 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:19,639 whole idea of simplicity and have teachers lost their way, 879 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:20,960 right? Which is the kind of overarching 880 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:25,239 question I've got here is about people quitting, which we know 881 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:26,800 is terrible right now. Retention is awful. 882 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,600 Are people leaving this job because we've lost our purpose? 883 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,000 And earlier on you mentioned about the whole set, the test 884 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:35,320 testing thing and setting imaginary bars. 885 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:39,600 Do you think that is either a a big reason or the biggest reason 886 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:41,360 that teachers just don't want to do this job anymore? 887 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:43,040 I think it's a big reason. I don't know if it's the 888 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:44,760 biggest. I think when when a teacher. 889 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:48,480 Quits it's for it's for a big reason and that big reason is 890 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,840 usually a combination of stuff. So I, I very rarely see a 891 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:53,560 teacher who's quit because of one thing. 892 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:58,080 I see a teacher who goes I didn't want to quit but XYZ and 893 00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,440 all of these things added up and and just culminated to me 894 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:02,920 leaving. I think this is a big part of 895 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:04,640 it. I think this, this idea of just 896 00:35:05,720 --> 00:35:08,960 doing stuff because it's the stuff we're told we have to do 897 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:13,920 by ourselves, like the amount of stuff that is like, well, the 898 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,080 policy says that we need to be doing this. 899 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:17,560 I was like, so yeah, who wrote the policy? 900 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:20,160 We did. Why don't you change policy 901 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,400 then? Because every single person in 902 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,240 this room knows that what you're asking me to do is completely 903 00:35:25,240 --> 00:35:27,280 pointless. But we all justify it by saying, 904 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:29,720 well, it's just what we've got to do because we decided we've 905 00:35:29,720 --> 00:35:31,400 got to do it. Mad What? 906 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:32,800 Can we all just wake up? For a second? 907 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,480 I felt like in a school that happened so much, we can change 908 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:37,520 what we've got to do then because we're in control of it, 909 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:40,080 we don't need to do it anymore. That's circular thinking, isn't 910 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:41,880 it? Like completely insular circular 911 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:43,120 thinking. We have to, because we made this 912 00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:43,800 rule. Who made the rule? 913 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,280 We did, and I've heard you say it in Derby. 914 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:48,600 Can we change the rule then? Yeah. 915 00:35:48,720 --> 00:35:50,640 You want to change the bar? Can we change the policy? 916 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:52,880 I'm so fed up because I'm doing all this and no one else isn't. 917 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:55,840 Do you use what you're doing? Like, do you use that sheet 918 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:57,280 you're fitting in every time you do something? 919 00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:00,400 No, but we've got to. Who said? 920 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,040 We've got to the English lead. Who's the English lead? 921 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:05,000 Someone down there who also. Doesn't me it's. 922 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:07,800 Like what? Oh, mad. 923 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:10,600 So this so that Fort train that you kind of explored earlier is 924 00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:13,480 kind of the inspiration I had for this episode, which is about 925 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,240 about losing our purpose and teachers wanting to quit this 926 00:36:16,240 --> 00:36:17,440 job. Is it because of that 927 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:19,280 simplicity? Is it because we've become too 928 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:21,040 complex? We've made too many imaginary 929 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:23,440 bars? There's just so much going on. 930 00:36:23,720 --> 00:36:26,560 And we also speaking to so we're mentioning Sophie a lot in this 931 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:28,400 episode. Sophie, just like clearly we're 932 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,400 your biggest fan. Virtual podcast host. 933 00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:33,840 Yeah, and Spirit, she is Rai, because of course she's a robot. 934 00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:36,680 And she mentioned this article from 2017 that we'd never read. 935 00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:38,480 Quite surprised because apparently it was huge. 936 00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:41,560 And it was called The Extraordinary Case of Mr 937 00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:45,520 Yamazaki by Solomon Kingsnorf. Great name, fantastic pseudonym 938 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:47,840 apparently unfortunately. But if there is someone out 939 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:50,040 there called Solomon Kingsnorf, get in touch because that is the 940 00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:52,320 best name I've ever heard, honestly. 941 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:53,200 It really is you. Minded me. 942 00:36:53,240 --> 00:36:54,520 Called Solomon King. What's your name? 943 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:56,440 Solomon. Solomon. 944 00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:59,640 Solomon Solomon Kingsnorf. I've listened to that guy. 945 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:02,280 Yeah, absolutely that guy. Onto the actual article though, 946 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:04,880 so we will link this down below. Do actually give it a proper 947 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,240 read because it was genuinely like fascinating we were in or 948 00:37:07,240 --> 00:37:09,000 reading this whole thing. But we're just going to go over 949 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,440 some of the key points from it. And the whole point of this 950 00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:15,080 article is to highlight, highlight how simple things 951 00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:19,600 could be and I guess ironically, spotlight how complex we've made 952 00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:23,160 it, how overcomplicated the job of teaching and just education, 953 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:24,720 teaching and learning has become. 954 00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:26,720 So let's go over some of the key points and. 955 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:28,920 By the way, if you're listening, stick to the end. 956 00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:30,480 There is an unbelievable twist at the end. 957 00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:33,680 It's like it blew my mind at the end honestly. 958 00:37:33,720 --> 00:37:35,280 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do stick around. 959 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,880 So in this school, which is a through school, so it's not a 960 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:40,840 Junior School year, it's reception all the way to year 6, 961 00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:42,920 right? Primary school in the first 962 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:47,400 year, they have stripped back the curriculum to just two 963 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:50,280 objectives. So in reception, Dylan, what do 964 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,800 these children focus on? It's it's it's incredible. 965 00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:57,480 I read this learning the alphabet by citing handwriting 966 00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:00,840 and counting to 20 and back. That's it. 967 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:05,520 It's, it's not even an idea that a child can leave reception, not 968 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,520 be able to do these two things, because in the current system, 969 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:10,760 like you said, of things sitting on top of each other all the 970 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:14,880 time, these two things, actually this head teacher has decided 971 00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:16,960 that's what I want my children to do at the end of reception. 972 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:21,640 And apart from that, they do loads of informal learning, no 973 00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,400 formal learning. Apart from that, it's all play. 974 00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:26,160 And it's not even learning through play. 975 00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:27,520 You know, it's not going clipboard out. 976 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:29,240 And they're at this station because there's five stations 977 00:38:29,240 --> 00:38:31,080 set up and I've got to make sure you're pretending to be a vet. 978 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:32,080 I'm going to take off that you're talking. 979 00:38:32,240 --> 00:38:35,880 No, no, just play, Just play. And that is it. 980 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:38,000 And stories. Yeah, stories are the big one. 981 00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,680 Yeah, and the vocab is built through stories. 982 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:45,480 The UK average for reception child is 1500 to 1600 words. 983 00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:50,000 This can significantly increase children's vocab to 3.8 to 984 00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:52,680 4.2000. You can more than double it just 985 00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:57,520 from having play and stories at the centre of everything, 986 00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:00,160 alongside counting 20 back and then in the alphabet. 987 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,600 So once they've done that in reception, they move to year one 988 00:39:02,720 --> 00:39:05,840 in this school and in year 1 it's seen as the most vital 989 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:07,960 year. Every single bit of resource is 990 00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:11,880 put into year one because the idea is that later on in the 991 00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:16,400 school, if these foundations are solid, you can add stuff quickly 992 00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:18,600 because they've already got those foundations in place. 993 00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:19,920 So why? Why is what year one important 994 00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:20,840 in this case? I mean a year one. 995 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:22,720 I mean, I've always thought this anyway, So reading this, I was 996 00:39:22,720 --> 00:39:24,760 like, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, because I think the lower 997 00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:26,240 down is more important for those foundations. 998 00:39:26,240 --> 00:39:29,640 Just quick segue because like how many times in upper school 999 00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:33,680 have you encountered a child who is significantly behind in their 1000 00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:35,720 ability to read and do basic numeracy right? 1001 00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:37,800 And you and you look back, if you look back at that journey, 1002 00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,920 you think, well, I'm sure we did everything we could though to 1003 00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:42,640 get them there. And you go, oh, no, they spent 1004 00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:44,280 this much time learning about the Mayans. 1005 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:46,200 They did this much time learning about there's other things. 1006 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:48,600 I'm not saying these subjects are bad, but there's a point 1007 00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,920 where I'm like, should they just have focused on these extremely 1008 00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:54,640 essential foundations? Or more more importantly, in 1009 00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:56,920 maths, should they have not gone on to 17 other things before? 1010 00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:58,640 They can do that? Because I still think learning 1011 00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:00,000 about different cultures is so important. 1012 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,000 And in this school they're still learning about the Mayans. 1013 00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:03,800 It's just in story time, in the afternoon. 1014 00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,200 They're still doing history, it's just in story time. 1015 00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:09,720 It's built into narratives which the human mind is wired to take 1016 00:40:09,720 --> 00:40:12,080 in. It's not wired to take in six 1017 00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:14,720 individual lessons about Mayans. We're talking about how the 1018 00:40:14,720 --> 00:40:17,400 community has changed over time, just with these young kids. 1019 00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,480 These children in this school, according to this, this article, 1020 00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:25,080 can recite you this unbelievable historical story about how a 1021 00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:27,720 whole culture was founded because they did it for a story. 1022 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:29,400 Great. And then in maths, you know 1023 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:30,400 what? They're not gonna learn what a 1024 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,040 fraction is until Year 5 because there's no point. 1025 00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:36,640 Can they do these things? Don't over saturate it, still do 1026 00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:38,800 maths, still do history, still do geography, but at the level 1027 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:40,680 what's important for. Them get rid of those imaginary 1028 00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:44,640 bars you can learn fractions in in a fraction of the time when 1029 00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:47,480 you are 10 years old compared to trying to learn it when you're 1030 00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:48,880 6. And you still don't really know 1031 00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:50,040 your multiplication. Yeah. 1032 00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:52,440 It's like, just leave it. Do they need to know it? 1033 00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:54,520 Seriously, if you really think about it, most of the 1034 00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:56,800 curriculum, how much do we, how much they need to know at eight? 1035 00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:58,080 Yeah. Does it matter if they learn at 1036 00:40:58,080 --> 00:40:58,600 10? Yeah. 1037 00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:00,560 Like what are they do? Are they going to get a job at 1038 00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:01,000 8? Are they? 1039 00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:02,600 Or they're going to get that 8 year old job now. 1040 00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:04,480 They don't know it now though, so just as long as they're 1041 00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:06,840 before they're 16. Honestly just let them learn it 1042 00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:08,520 at some point. Maybe let their brain develop, 1043 00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:10,080 then teach them this thing. It'll be twice. 1044 00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:12,400 It's so much easier. It's mad what we do about. 1045 00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:14,560 So in year 1, one of us 3 learning objectives because it's 1046 00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:17,560 three now or be careful a. Lot of weight is 3 and year, so 1047 00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:19,480 reading and writing every phonemographing. 1048 00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:21,440 OK, brilliant. Simple, right? 1049 00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:23,880 Counting to 110 and back. Yep. 1050 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:26,920 And finally mastering all number bonds to 20. 1051 00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:29,720 That includes not just like knowing numbers to 20, it 1052 00:41:29,720 --> 00:41:32,520 includes number ones to 19. Yes, number ones to 18/17/16 all 1053 00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:34,440 the way down. So knowing what 9 + 6 is. 1054 00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:36,480 Yeah, exactly. Straight away all of your 1 1055 00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:38,800 digit number bond facts. Yeah, off by heart, that's it. 1056 00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,720 So no extended writing or unnecessary subjects at this 1057 00:41:41,720 --> 00:41:45,240 point it is just mastering the basics and again using 1058 00:41:45,240 --> 00:41:48,880 storytelling, using stories to to enrich their idea of the 1059 00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:50,160 world. Exactly. 1060 00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:52,240 That's fine at this point. Exactly that doesn't have to be 1061 00:41:52,240 --> 00:41:53,400 a formal you've got to history book. 1062 00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:56,280 We're writing down a fill in the blanks in this sentence because 1063 00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:58,880 the sentence your teacher just told you no, let the mixed 1064 00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:01,160 school let them have stories. Do you know at this point I was 1065 00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:03,040 reading through and then we we used through the rest of the 1066 00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:05,480 article told through the rest of the school has interviews with 1067 00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:07,080 head teacher himself. Yeah, yeah. 1068 00:42:07,240 --> 00:42:08,680 And I was just I was so inspired. 1069 00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:11,600 I was so inspired. And this guy's basically coming 1070 00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:13,960 and completely challenged all this traditional UK primary 1071 00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:14,760 education. Yeah. 1072 00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:17,000 This model of just like, well, we've got to be sure we're 1073 00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:18,440 always assessing children all of the time. 1074 00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:19,680 More, more, more. We've got to write this down on 1075 00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:21,040 this piece of paper. And if they can't do this and 1076 00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:22,640 obviously they're not age expected and we need to make 1077 00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:24,160 sure they can do that. And it's at the detriment of 1078 00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:26,040 every everything else. Strip it back. 1079 00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:28,640 Unbelievable. Outcomes were better. 1080 00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:30,520 I was ready to be completely converted. 1081 00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:35,160 And then you messaged me. And we found out what did I 1082 00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:36,560 message you, Dylan? What did I message you? 1083 00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:40,440 This is a fictional I'm. Like no. 1084 00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,880 But the the point of the fictional piece of work was to 1085 00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:46,080 have this impact, and it was to make this point that we're going 1086 00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:49,520 to talk about now. Simplicity is lost. 1087 00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:51,920 And actually it was about overload. 1088 00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:56,040 If I was to summarise the issue or one of the biggest issues, 1089 00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:58,520 there's several with with teaching and education right 1090 00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:03,120 now, it is overload. It is always, always, always. 1091 00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:05,560 What more can our kids do? We need to make the day at 1092 00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:07,320 school longer because we can't fit everything in. 1093 00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:09,440 I promise you, if we make the day at school longer, we'll fit 1094 00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:11,040 it and we'll have more stuff to fit in. 1095 00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:13,760 Simplicity. Strip it back. 1096 00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:15,760 Less is more. Yeah. 1097 00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:16,880 So you've come up with some points. 1098 00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:18,920 Yeah, so this, the whole thing just inspired me. 1099 00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,320 It made me think of some questions and I thought I was 1100 00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:23,320 going to ask you at the time and I thought, no, I'm going to be 1101 00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:25,480 clever and save it for the podcast and ask what your 1102 00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:27,440 opinions are. So my first question to you, 1103 00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:29,640 because of this over complication which you've just 1104 00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:34,720 highlighted, do you think education has actually got worse 1105 00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:37,560 for children? No. 1106 00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:40,560 I think education is way better than if you look at the 70s and 1107 00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:42,240 80s. And I think it's really, really, 1108 00:43:42,240 --> 00:43:45,480 really easy to forget that. I think education, a child's 1109 00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:48,840 education right now in school is so much better than it was 1110 00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:51,640 because we were so driven by the fact that standards were so bad 1111 00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:53,240 back then. And when people say, yeah, we 1112 00:43:53,240 --> 00:43:55,640 used to just sit and behave in class, yeah, because you had to, 1113 00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:57,200 because someone would throw a board rubber at you. 1114 00:43:57,560 --> 00:43:59,440 They'd throw a board rubber at your head if you didn't. 1115 00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:02,040 OK, We don't have that anymore. In general, yes. 1116 00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:06,520 However, I think we've gone way too far down the route of test 1117 00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:08,960 data, getting people through certain things and covering as 1118 00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:10,560 much as we possibly can to cram it in. 1119 00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:12,880 Because back then there was no national curriculum and kids 1120 00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:15,400 just did artsy farty thing, enjoyed it, by the way. 1121 00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:17,520 Kids just did little artsy farty things all day. 1122 00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:19,600 And now it's like, no, we need to make sure kids are getting 1123 00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:21,480 all of this and they are definitely getting a better deal 1124 00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:25,240 for that, but it's gone too far. So in terms of is it worse over 1125 00:44:25,240 --> 00:44:27,880 time? Probably not worse, but it, it 1126 00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:30,920 could be so much better. And and we're at the point now 1127 00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:33,760 the Nexus, I think, where it is becoming worse because we're so 1128 00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:35,440 obsessed with more, more, more, more, more, more, more. 1129 00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:36,880 Yeah. So I think it's easy for someone 1130 00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:38,280 to sit here and be like, it's worse than ever. 1131 00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:40,360 It's not. It's just not Yeah, but it. 1132 00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:42,080 But it could be so, so much better. 1133 00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:44,280 You're kind of thinking on a bit of a macro level there as well. 1134 00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:46,600 You're thinking like overall. Yeah, overall it's way better. 1135 00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:48,760 So let's granularize it. Granularize another word. 1136 00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:51,080 I made that a little bit right? Maybe you need to do some more 1137 00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:54,480 English sources, girls. Yeah, clearly my education was 1138 00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:55,920 not good enough. I should be in today's 1139 00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:56,760 education, actually. Thank you. 1140 00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:59,880 I'd have learned and that three years old, but if we think about 1141 00:44:59,880 --> 00:45:01,160 just some. I was trying to think about this 1142 00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:02,320 question. I've been asked at loads of 1143 00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:03,760 times and I'll always say what you say. 1144 00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:05,920 I'm like, no, at the end, you know, I moan about things, but 1145 00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:08,280 education for kids is better. But then I do think that am I 1146 00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:10,400 falling into the trap as well, though, of being like, yeah, I 1147 00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:13,320 think it's better by the metric standards, the standards that we 1148 00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:15,160 have set. Because when I think about stuff 1149 00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:17,400 that maybe used to be valued more, that isn't valued anymore, 1150 00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:20,000 stuff like mental math skills, it just isn't valued anymore. 1151 00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:22,000 Aura C skills. I saw that come up on Teacher 1152 00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:23,800 Tap this week and I was like, Oh yeah, Aura C. 1153 00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:25,280 It was asking, does your school do this? 1154 00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:27,520 I was like, no, I don't have anyone that does Aura C 1155 00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:30,080 anywhere. And just other life skills in 1156 00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:32,320 general. Do you feel like that they're 1157 00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:36,320 just like, have they got worse? And if they've got worse, is it 1158 00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:39,120 because we don't think they matter anymore or I don't know. 1159 00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:41,920 It made me like my mind shift. Do you know what stuff normally 1160 00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:44,600 gets worse because there's less time to do it, but very rarely 1161 00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:46,600 the stuff get worse just because. 1162 00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:49,000 So when we're thinking about like oracy skills and mental 1163 00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:51,920 strategies, 100% they've got worse than when we were at 1164 00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:53,880 school. Mental strategies for us, we 1165 00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:57,080 looked at SAT's papers from like 2002 thousand and four that area 1166 00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:59,920 when we were taking. And a lot of them are way more 1167 00:45:59,920 --> 00:46:03,240 reliant on mental strategies. And I think mental strategies 1168 00:46:03,240 --> 00:46:05,760 have got way worse in maths, oracy skills have got way worse 1169 00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:08,480 in English because we've been cramming in with, well, who 1170 00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:10,360 needs obviously skills anymore? Because you need to tell me what 1171 00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:12,080 a determiner is. What's a determiner? 1172 00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:13,760 So. So yeah, I completely understand 1173 00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:15,360 what you mean. There are certain things that 1174 00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:17,160 are getting worse. Absolutely. 1175 00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:20,800 And it is because of the lack of time put towards doing them 1176 00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:23,760 because it's way more complicated than ever. 1177 00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:26,160 And we're trying to cram more in and we are prioritising the 1178 00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:27,200 wrong things. Yeah. 1179 00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:31,640 Like, honest to God, for a child in a primary school, how much 1180 00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:35,720 more important is it that they know their number bond within 20 1181 00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:38,160 than it is that they can identify an adverb in a 1182 00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:40,520 sentence? It Do you know what identifying 1183 00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:43,640 an adverb in a sentence is almost completely point. 1184 00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:45,120 It's probably. It's OK. 1185 00:46:46,240 --> 00:46:48,560 It's completely pointless. OK, I'm just thinking about it. 1186 00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:49,680 Can I say it's completely pointless? 1187 00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:51,280 Yeah, I can. Because you know what? 1188 00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:53,320 Do you know how many kids, if they're doing really good or AC 1189 00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:55,960 skills, would be saying adverbs and putting it in their work 1190 00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:58,400 anyway that it doesn't matter if they can't? 1191 00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:00,600 I was a teacher. I had to teach myself what 1192 00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:03,200 adverbs were at the start. Does that not say something 1193 00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:06,120 like, I could write whole essays and I went for a whole history 1194 00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:07,920 degree. I wrote a dissertation on 1195 00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:09,320 African history, went to grammar school. 1196 00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:12,680 I went to grammar school. I was absolutely fine no matter 1197 00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:15,200 what the situation you got. Oh, but to be highly educated, 1198 00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:17,360 you must be able to tell me where the determiners are. 1199 00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:18,880 Intend. No, no, you don't. 1200 00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:21,360 You, you have to do that because we have to tick boxes to get 1201 00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:22,320 through tests and things like that. 1202 00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:22,640 Yeah. Yeah. 1203 00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:23,720 And that's the that's the harsh value. 1204 00:47:23,720 --> 00:47:26,280 And those metrics go up, which is why I feel like you can. 1205 00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:27,840 It's easy to justify. Yeah, education is getting 1206 00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:29,560 better, look, because they know what determiners are now. 1207 00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:32,280 And my overall point here is like, yeah, but do these things 1208 00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:34,760 really matter? What do we actually think is a 1209 00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:36,720 good education? Because I'm starting to like 1210 00:47:36,720 --> 00:47:38,640 doubt myself and start and starting to think. 1211 00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:41,360 I actually think education is maybe getting a little bit 1212 00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:43,160 worse. It's just that the metrics we've 1213 00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:46,240 put in place, they go up, but I don't value them very much 1214 00:47:46,240 --> 00:47:47,600 really. When I really think about it, I 1215 00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:50,360 might actually don't kids, if kids are worse at speaking and 1216 00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:52,680 doing mental maths. Education's got worse in my 1217 00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:53,400 opinion. I don't know. 1218 00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:54,960 I think there's, I think there's, I think there's space 1219 00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:56,040 for that. I think a really good point. 1220 00:47:56,640 --> 00:47:59,760 Yeah, yeah, at second point from again inspired by this article 1221 00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:02,400 and again inspired by you as well really talking about it 1222 00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:03,240 earlier. Oh, thank you. 1223 00:48:03,240 --> 00:48:05,040 Well not really because I pre planned it, but I pretend for 1224 00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:09,680 your sake teaching. Is it less enjoyable than ever 1225 00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:12,720 before? So what in terms of the lack of 1226 00:48:12,720 --> 00:48:14,960 simplicity? Yeah, because because our jobs, 1227 00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:16,800 I'm sort of moving away from the kids a little bit now, just 1228 00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:18,920 thinking about the complexity of teaching. 1229 00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:21,040 Yeah, right. Like you said, there's so much 1230 00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:23,520 stuff we mentioned last week about being overwhelmed with a 1231 00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:25,400 million different options on how to do things. 1232 00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:28,320 Does do you think that makes teaching less enjoyable, or is 1233 00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:29,320 it the other stuff we've mentioned? 1234 00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:33,680 It's, it's part of it for sure. All you need to do is talk to a 1235 00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:36,360 teacher who's been in the job for more than 20 years and they 1236 00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:39,480 will all say the same thing. Teaching is not what it used to 1237 00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:40,880 be. And there's a reason for that. 1238 00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:42,080 It's because they used to come in right. 1239 00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:44,280 And, and we can think back to when we were in school 1240 00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:46,560 ourselves. I feel like there was way more 1241 00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:49,200 time when I was in Year 5, year 6, where we do like project 1242 00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:51,040 work. We do like a whole project on 1243 00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:52,600 Romans. And it was the best thing I've 1244 00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:55,320 ever done ever. And I'd spend an afternoon doing 1245 00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:56,760 a front cover of a Roman soldier. 1246 00:48:57,040 --> 00:48:58,600 Yeah, yes. And then, and then I spend the 1247 00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:00,440 next afternoon doing an acrostic poem. 1248 00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:02,320 Right. And I spend the afternoon after 1249 00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:05,000 just looking for a Roman textbook and copying like a the, 1250 00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:07,360 the, the, the weaponry down and doing like an inventory. 1251 00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:08,280 God, yeah. Do you know what I mean? 1252 00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:12,960 Like, do you know what is that or, but we didn't write down how 1253 00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:16,480 the the democracy of the time was changing because the 1254 00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:20,320 comparisons between people beforehand, when you're 9, you 1255 00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:24,000 couldn't care less. And it doesn't mean education is 1256 00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:26,800 better now. It just means that I'm less 1257 00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:28,520 involved. I'm less infused. 1258 00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:32,080 And from a teacher's point of view, I see children lessons 1259 00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:34,600 used than ever. And I'm relying on children who 1260 00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:37,160 are infused by learning full stop to carry the class more 1261 00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:38,560 than ever. There's always going to be 1262 00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:39,760 children who it doesn't matter what you do. 1263 00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:42,520 I do like that story I said earlier when we did a lesson on 1264 00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:45,080 longitude and latitude, the most boring lesson I've ever done in 1265 00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:47,000 my life. And there were one or two kids 1266 00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:49,480 in there who were like, this is so interesting, isn't this fun? 1267 00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:52,040 And I was relying on them to carry the whole class of 32 1268 00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:53,960 kids. And we've on my own doing 2 1269 00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:56,320 hours of latitude. And you've just got to look at 1270 00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:58,560 yourself in that moment and go, what am I doing? 1271 00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:01,720 Like what am I doing? We could be doing so much more 1272 00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:04,240 fun, really cool stuff with the children right now. 1273 00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:07,160 And that's why I feel like what it used to be. 1274 00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:10,000 And I think the reason why is because we're being told from 1275 00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:12,200 the top down, you need to make sure you've got all the progress 1276 00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:13,280 and all the things all of the time. 1277 00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:14,280 You need to be able to write it down. 1278 00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:15,680 You need to be able to assess them all the time. 1279 00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:17,720 What's your teacher assessment for this children in this? 1280 00:50:17,720 --> 00:50:19,960 One thing about longitude and latitude, because when it comes 1281 00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:22,040 to Year 5, the teachers going to be looking back at the sheet and 1282 00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:23,400 seeing where they were in that, and they're going to be 1283 00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:25,520 informing that no, they're not. Yeah. 1284 00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:28,520 Do some teaching. It will stick for some kids. 1285 00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:31,360 It won't stick for others. Do it again next year when you 1286 00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:33,320 do geography again. It'll stick for more. 1287 00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:35,960 By the time they're 16, do you know what they might know? 1288 00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:38,600 What longitude latch it is. Some of them might not, and 1289 00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:39,600 they'll be fine. Yeah. 1290 00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:41,200 Because they'll never use it because they're not interested 1291 00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:42,160 in it. They they won't. 1292 00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:44,000 They're not going to go and get a job in that field. 1293 00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:44,680 It's fine. Yeah. 1294 00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:47,160 Whatever, it should just be about creativity and enjoyment 1295 00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:50,000 because yes, English, being able to read and maths being able to 1296 00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:51,680 add and tell the time and stuff like that. 1297 00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:54,480 They're the core things that have no negotiating around them. 1298 00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:57,160 The rest of maths and English and the whole of everything else 1299 00:50:57,360 --> 00:50:59,520 should be about enrichment, enjoyment. 1300 00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:02,880 Inspiring I have I have such fond memories you talking about 1301 00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:05,920 primary school then I have such fond memories of primary school 1302 00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:09,920 and every single one of those memories is is through doing 1303 00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:12,280 enriching tasks it's through doing practical things it's 1304 00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:14,720 through looking at stuff and making booklets like you said, 1305 00:51:15,240 --> 00:51:17,120 and I am really worried and I've been worried about this for 1306 00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:20,480 years and it genuinely makes me feel strange because I because I 1307 00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:22,080 because I feel like I'm contributing to it. 1308 00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:26,560 I like implicitly I have to is that I just think kids are so 1309 00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:30,400 much less happy. That's that there's just like 1310 00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:32,600 compared to even just when we were kids, which, you know, you 1311 00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:34,480 go back even more generations. Maybe it's different, I don't 1312 00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:36,600 know, Maybe we had the peak time, which I think there's a 1313 00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:39,000 good argument for by the way, like 90s and early 2000s. 1314 00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:41,000 I mean, there's a good argument for that being like peak 1315 00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:43,720 enjoyment for kids at school. But I am genuinely really 1316 00:51:43,720 --> 00:51:47,640 concerned that kids are so unhappy now on average compared 1317 00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:51,160 to 20 years ago at school. And we are just doubling down on 1318 00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:52,440 that. And like we are half the 1319 00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:53,840 problem. I think half the problem is 1320 00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:55,280 outside of school. I think it's social media and 1321 00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:57,480 all those sorts of things. There's massive influences that 1322 00:51:57,480 --> 00:51:59,480 are just ruining our brain and rotting our brains. 1323 00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:00,840 Do you know what I mean? And we don't know about them 1324 00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:01,640 yet. It's not been long enough. 1325 00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:03,120 We'll look back in 100 years and be like, oh. 1326 00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:05,360 Can't believe kids had that. The old brain rot generation, 1327 00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:07,600 like look at them all now in their 70s, like completely. 1328 00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:09,840 You know, I think we might look back, but there's another part 1329 00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:12,640 which is specifically our fault. If we have control. 1330 00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:14,840 As educators, not mean, you know, not on like, a granular 1331 00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:18,120 level, but as education where it's just, it's too complex and 1332 00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:20,240 we value the wrong thing. Yeah, like that first question I 1333 00:52:20,240 --> 00:52:22,280 asked you. We've lost sight of oracy skills 1334 00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:24,360 and life skills and having fun and enjoying school. 1335 00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:26,760 It's not about enjoying school. It's about meeting standards. 1336 00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:28,720 That's it. I had so many people message, 1337 00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:31,160 message like comment on stuff recently because I spoke about 1338 00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:34,040 how we don't value stuff like English and maths and so many 1339 00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:36,920 people took that as what do you mean you don't value being able 1340 00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:38,840 to read? Oh, well, when there's a job 1341 00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:41,320 asking for a GCSE in PE, maybe then that'll get some. 1342 00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:44,400 And it's like, are you that dumb that you can't see through 1343 00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:46,920 exactly what I'm saying? Do I need to explain it to you 1344 00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:48,600 completely What I obviously mean by that? 1345 00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:51,000 Do you think as a teacher that I don't think being able to read 1346 00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:52,200 is the most important thing in the world? 1347 00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:56,120 Can you just for a second think honestly just you maybe you 1348 00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:57,640 needed more English. Maybe that was the. 1349 00:52:57,760 --> 00:52:59,280 Problem because you don't refer anything. 1350 00:52:59,720 --> 00:53:03,560 But the the point was just because I value the fact that 1351 00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:07,040 kids should be able to read and write and stuff, I'm not saying 1352 00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:10,200 that that's not important or I'm not saying that being able to 1353 00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:12,520 run a lap is just as important as being able to read. 1354 00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:15,240 What I'm saying is that we still have to value these other 1355 00:53:15,240 --> 00:53:16,840 things. We still have to value the love 1356 00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:19,400 for learning. And when it comes to PE, I'm not 1357 00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:22,840 saying a GCSEPE, I'm a primary school teacher saying I want my 1358 00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:25,600 kids to be active and that time should not be taken away and I 1359 00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:27,600 will die by that hill. I think most people agree with 1360 00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:28,520 that. It's so funny. 1361 00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:29,680 I love it when you get vexed by if. 1362 00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:31,240 You honestly like because you know what? 1363 00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:34,800 Again, 98% of our comments are unbelievable and it's so kind 1364 00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:38,080 and it's really lovely and it's nice to read, but that's 2%. 1365 00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:40,000 You stick with me because I don't mind people disagreeing 1366 00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:43,160 with me, but when they just jump on something and just completely 1367 00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:45,040 take out a context, I'm like, what's wrong with you? 1368 00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:48,840 Yeah, you just want an argument. Yeah, I don't mind people 1369 00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:52,160 disagree me unless they're wrong, basically, which some 1370 00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:54,280 people just are anyway. Anyway, simplicity. 1371 00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:56,600 That's a really good point. I've got one another thing 1372 00:53:56,600 --> 00:54:00,560 because again, you talked earlier about that article and 1373 00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:02,600 saying how we could just, we could just not teach kids 1374 00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:04,480 certain things to their older. It doesn't actually matter as 1375 00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:06,880 long as they learn it at some point before they leave. 1376 00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:09,600 Does it matter if they learn it at a smaller level in year 4 And 1377 00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:11,680 then you've either, can we just teach to them in year 6 and 1378 00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:15,880 you're 8. So do you think that we could 1379 00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:20,520 remove subjects from particular year groups? 1380 00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:23,320 Like do you think we need to teach every single subject in 1381 00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:24,960 the curriculum every year? Because that's what currently 1382 00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:27,040 happens. OK, do you mean formally teacher 1383 00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:29,480 in a stand alone lesson in a string of lessons because that's 1384 00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:33,280 just a unit of work or do you mean for example, I would argue 1385 00:54:33,720 --> 00:54:37,440 in this the made-up system of there's no subject of history in 1386 00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:40,080 year 1, right? But there's so much reading 1387 00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:43,200 around, you know, the the life for Roman or that. 1388 00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:46,560 So there's history happening right there is DT happening 1389 00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:47,800 because the children are building something? 1390 00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:49,240 There's art happening all the time. 1391 00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:53,200 Do do you mean can we get rid of formalised ways of doing stuff 1392 00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:55,680 or do you mean kids shouldn't do any art at all? 1393 00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:58,120 Let's turn it into two-part question because they're kind of 1394 00:54:58,120 --> 00:54:59,840 different. My first one wasn't that when I 1395 00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:01,480 think has a good question, we should answer that in a second. 1396 00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:03,760 But my first one is literally like within the constraints of 1397 00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:05,520 how we do it right now. Let's say we still have 1398 00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:07,720 formalised lessons. We do history, we do geography, 1399 00:55:07,720 --> 00:55:11,240 we do art, we do DDT, whatever. Do do you, how essential do you 1400 00:55:11,240 --> 00:55:14,000 think it is that those subjects are taught every year if we're 1401 00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:17,280 sticking to this current system? I, I, I would absolutely keep 1402 00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:19,880 them every year. I would because I think if we're 1403 00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:24,320 sticking to this system, I think dropping them feeds into that 1404 00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:26,680 narrative of English and maths, English and maths, English, 1405 00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:28,280 maths. Right now when we drop off a 1406 00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:30,720 history for a term, we're talking about year 6 leading up 1407 00:55:30,720 --> 00:55:32,840 to Sats. We would both sit here and go. 1408 00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:35,400 That is disgusting how we would drop off stuff for English and 1409 00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:37,560 maths and do extra stuff in the afternoon. 1410 00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:41,360 I would be really reluctant for a whole year, in Year 4, let's 1411 00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:44,040 say, to not do any geography or not do any art. 1412 00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:45,720 I think the way we do it can change. 1413 00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:47,480 I'd be really reluctant to drop something off. 1414 00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:49,720 Completely. Even if so, you kind of assumed 1415 00:55:49,720 --> 00:55:51,160 that I was saying replace it with maths and English. 1416 00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:54,520 Even if we replace it just by doing a bigger mastery, more 1417 00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:56,240 enriching approach on another subject. 1418 00:55:56,240 --> 00:55:57,880 So art gets six weeks. Do you know what I'd do? 1419 00:55:57,880 --> 00:55:59,800 I'd turn it into, I'd go back to that idea. 1420 00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:01,200 A lot of schools still do this of topic. 1421 00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:04,320 Yeah, I'd go back to the idea of let's have a topic that runs 1422 00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:06,600 through and we really enrich from Romans. 1423 00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:08,640 But you can do a bit of geography, you can talk about 1424 00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:10,000 their use of rivers and things like that. 1425 00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:12,680 You can do a bit of DT. You can do some art. 1426 00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:16,040 If you have a topic, it becomes more natural to feed them in. 1427 00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:18,360 And we don't need to obsess over how much time we're spending on 1428 00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:20,280 everything because the topic is Romans. 1429 00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:22,480 And obviously history will probably be the biggest bulk of 1430 00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:24,200 that. But then the next time you do a 1431 00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:27,320 topic, it might be on, like you said, rivers and the bulk is on 1432 00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:28,600 geography. But then you can still feed 1433 00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:30,480 everything in. So I think topic work helps with 1434 00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:32,080 that. No, that's, that makes sense. 1435 00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:33,680 I, I agree topic. It's kind of what you that was 1436 00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:37,240 kind of your first point, wasn't it, about less formalised, more 1437 00:56:37,240 --> 00:56:40,160 just integrated industry. I I, I find it mad that we don't 1438 00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:41,600 all do that. I think it's so obvious that 1439 00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:43,720 topics are better. Yeah, and and, but most schools, 1440 00:56:43,720 --> 00:56:45,680 I'd say, I think. They're move, a lot of moves, 1441 00:56:45,680 --> 00:56:48,160 doesn't it, over time, Yeah, there was that big move to topic 1442 00:56:48,160 --> 00:56:48,760 work. Yeah. 1443 00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:51,040 And there's that basically when the Ofsted framework came and it 1444 00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:53,240 was like each individual subject might be deep dived. 1445 00:56:53,240 --> 00:56:55,640 Yeah, I think there was a big move back then to like, Christ, 1446 00:56:55,720 --> 00:56:58,560 if history gets deep dived. And I'm doing a topic on 1447 00:56:58,720 --> 00:57:01,080 fairgrounds because it's ADT topic, let's just say, which is 1448 00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:03,240 more about building something and seeing how mechanics work 1449 00:57:03,240 --> 00:57:05,600 and it's about science. How on earth can I get a history 1450 00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:07,680 deep dive in there? So I think it was very much then 1451 00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:09,840 went, okay, let's take history out, have history subject 1452 00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:13,760 leaders again and let's really focus on the and the skills part 1453 00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:17,280 of history that became way more like focused on and I think that 1454 00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:18,600 moved a lot of schools away from topic. 1455 00:57:18,600 --> 00:57:20,240 You're totally right. I literally remember people 1456 00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:23,680 panicking saying Oh no, often have now said our school's not 1457 00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:26,360 very good because we do topics and we and we couldn't 1458 00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:29,440 confidently the children couldn't confidently say I'm 1459 00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:31,080 learning about geography today. Yeah, exactly. 1460 00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:32,640 And I was like cool, that's brilliant. 1461 00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:34,760 Yeah, who cares, Who cares? OK, tell at the end of the year, 1462 00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:36,200 by the way, that stuff there was good geography. 1463 00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:37,960 There you go done. No one care, honestly. 1464 00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:39,440 And also that was an adverb just. 1465 00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:41,520 Just went into a secondary school. 1466 00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:45,280 Yeah, I have geography teacher. That's weird. 1467 00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:48,280 I remember being like, oh, I've never done geography as a thing. 1468 00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:50,680 That's cool. I went to geography and they 1469 00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:51,800 were talking about I've done loads of this. 1470 00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:53,120 Yeah, it didn't make a difference. 1471 00:57:53,120 --> 00:57:54,680 No, of course it didn't. Of course it didn't make a 1472 00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:55,640 difference. We're happy doing it with 1473 00:57:55,640 --> 00:57:56,240 science. Yeah. 1474 00:57:56,440 --> 00:57:58,000 Don't learn chemistry at primary school, do we? 1475 00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:00,200 Biology. Then you've got to know if it's 1476 00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:02,160 a physics lesson or not. No, you don't. 1477 00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:03,960 Honestly, No you don't. You're 8. 1478 00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:05,760 Do you know? We can say it right, but it's 1479 00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:07,280 just not the most important thing in the world. 1480 00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:10,040 Do you think there's any parts of the curriculum that we could 1481 00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:11,640 actually just cut? Yeah, we said this loads. 1482 00:58:11,640 --> 00:58:13,240 I think there's loads. I think there's so much. 1483 00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:16,760 And I would start in maths and English, I'd start there because 1484 00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:18,760 you look at the, the amount that's written in the curriculum 1485 00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:21,480 for maths and English. It's like reams and reams and 1486 00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:24,400 reams compared to 2 pages of history, like history, job fee, 1487 00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:26,760 DT, music, art. It's already quite open to 1488 00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:28,640 interpretation and you just need to do a certain amount of thing 1489 00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:31,760 like we, we, I, I'd go to English and I'd cull so much 1490 00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:33,720 spag spending punctuation and grammar. 1491 00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:35,880 Go to maths and I would simplify it so much. 1492 00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:38,600 I would honestly get rid of so much lower down in the school. 1493 00:58:38,960 --> 00:58:42,120 I I, I really would because as soon as you see it as a four 1494 00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:45,520 year journey in key stage 2 or a three-year journey in key stage 1495 00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:49,240 1 or A7 year journey in primary school, as soon as you start 1496 00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:52,000 looking at it that way, it makes so much more sense to have it 1497 00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:52,960 top heavy. Yeah. 1498 00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:56,720 Because do you know what if you just smash the fundamentals even 1499 00:58:56,720 --> 00:59:00,200 up to year 4, genuinely, if all of your kids are really good at 1500 00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:03,240 the fundamentals in year 4, year 5:00 and 6:00, you really can 1501 00:59:03,240 --> 00:59:04,960 introduce stuff and learn it within a day. 1502 00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:06,880 Yeah, yeah. What what now takes two weeks. 1503 00:59:06,880 --> 00:59:08,240 Would you like. Oh, I've got to go back over the 1504 00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:10,600 stuff because year 4 didn't do this properly because year 4 1505 00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:12,360 were going back over the stuff previously and they were trying 1506 00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:13,520 to introduce new stuff all the time. 1507 00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:17,360 If you really smash the fundamentals lower down and it's 1508 00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:19,560 I can see why leaders don't like it because it leaves only two 1509 00:59:19,560 --> 00:59:21,360 years to get in there. So oh God, what if they don't 1510 00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:23,640 get it? But it's not riskier because if 1511 00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:25,840 you absolutely smash the fundamentals, there's no way 1512 00:59:25,840 --> 00:59:27,200 they won't understand the next. Exactly. 1513 00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:28,960 But it's it's a game, isn't it? And people don't want to take 1514 00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:30,400 that risk. What if they didn't understand 1515 00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:31,680 the fundamentals? Now they're not going either. 1516 00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:32,920 OK, Well, they don't mean they won't. 1517 00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:34,200 You know what? They weren't going to get either 1518 00:59:34,200 --> 00:59:36,400 anyway if they didn't get the fundamentals after you put four 1519 00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:37,560 years of just doing the fundamentals. 1520 00:59:37,560 --> 00:59:39,800 I tell you what, if you were doing both at the same time, 1521 00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:41,600 they wouldn't, they wouldn't know either of them still now 1522 00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:44,040 anyway, so it doesn't matter. Like you're it's the wrong way 1523 00:59:44,040 --> 00:59:45,400 of thinking. Yeah, and I know it. 1524 00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:47,120 You know what? I know it's true because COVID, 1525 00:59:47,680 --> 00:59:50,960 COVID happened and you know what Kids missed tonnes of education 1526 00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:53,520 and I taught some of those kids in year 6, two years later after 1527 00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:55,600 they missed so much stuff. And you know what? 1528 00:59:55,600 --> 00:59:58,000 A tonne of those objectives where they would have had two 1529 00:59:58,000 --> 00:59:59,640 years of oh, we have a little bit in here, a little bit in 1530 00:59:59,640 --> 01:00:02,040 year 4, a little bit in Year 5. They hadn't seen it to year six. 1531 01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:02,880 And guess what? They learned it. 1532 01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:04,760 Honestly, it felt like just as quick because they're like, oh, 1533 01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:05,920 our brains are bigger now. I just get this. 1534 01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:08,080 Yeah, yeah. It barely took me any more time 1535 01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:09,200 with some of those things to teach. 1536 01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:11,680 I'm not saying or we can just stop sending kids to year 4 and 1537 01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:14,160 five, but. COVID had I think a much bigger 1538 01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:17,720 impact on the social side and the relationships between school 1539 01:00:17,720 --> 01:00:19,400 and home, etcetera. Huge impact there. 1540 01:00:19,720 --> 01:00:22,760 Obviously had a big impact on academic side, obviously. 1541 01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:25,520 But as teachers, that's what we're quite good at and I think 1542 01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:27,160 there were ways that we could bring children up and through 1543 01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:28,760 and there was lots of money putting extra stuff there. 1544 01:00:28,880 --> 01:00:31,280 I think that was more solvable than the social side. 1545 01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:34,320 Yeah, but I found it super interesting that there was 1546 01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:36,720 almost like a straight after COVID being a year 6 teacher 1547 01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:39,160 specifically, right? I was like, Oh, this didn't make 1548 01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:41,400 too much of an impact because it's like, oh, because the older 1549 01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:44,680 kids that already kind of got their foundations in place, it 1550 01:00:44,680 --> 01:00:46,800 wasn't actually so hard to then teach them stuff on top of that, 1551 01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:49,760 even if they'd missed a bit three years later as a year 6 1552 01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:53,240 teacher, it was when I started being like, Oh my God, like the, 1553 01:00:53,320 --> 01:00:55,720 the amount of gaps I'm seeing now and the lack of mental, 1554 01:00:55,720 --> 01:00:58,440 mental math skills and Orsi in general because they're just 1555 01:00:58,440 --> 01:00:59,760 not. They missed school in like your 1556 01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:02,160 reception in year 1. They actually missed the 1557 01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:04,040 foundations being taught in the 1st place. 1558 01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:06,040 That's when you saw it like really impact. 1559 01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:08,280 And it's like, Oh, doesn't that just reinforce the idea that we 1560 01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:10,720 should really, really, really just hammer those foundations 1561 01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:14,080 and not overcomplicate everything when they're five? 1562 01:01:14,720 --> 01:01:16,800 It doesn't make any sense, but doesn't matter because that 1563 01:01:16,800 --> 01:01:18,920 proves it's obviously I didn't mean this is next doesn't mean 1564 01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:19,880 anything. We don't, we don't, we don't 1565 01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:22,400 look at hard evidence. And this is government. 1566 01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:25,560 Yeah, I think you know the idea less is more is really 1567 01:01:25,560 --> 01:01:29,720 important. And if we think about, there's 1568 01:01:29,720 --> 01:01:32,080 some people who sit here and go, well, you know, because of this 1569 01:01:32,080 --> 01:01:35,000 complexity, stuff's improved. And it's almost, almost like 1570 01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:38,480 what I said earlier, it's like, Oh yeah, OK, education is better 1571 01:01:38,480 --> 01:01:40,360 than the 70s. If you looked at data from the 1572 01:01:40,360 --> 01:01:42,520 70s to now, you could justify anything, right? 1573 01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:44,400 You could say just because education is better and, and 1574 01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:46,600 like numbers are better, you could say, well, everything's 1575 01:01:46,600 --> 01:01:47,880 better. And isn't this fantastic for our 1576 01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:49,520 children? And there's probably, there's 1577 01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:51,800 probably some things that are benefited from being more 1578 01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:56,480 complex in terms of, I think, you know, the, the standard of 1579 01:01:56,480 --> 01:02:00,440 subject knowledge as a teacher getting higher, in my opinion, 1580 01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:04,040 of what you should know. I, I think that is an overall 1581 01:02:04,040 --> 01:02:06,000 good thing for our children. I think having that high 1582 01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:07,720 standard. And you know what teachers need 1583 01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:08,960 to know more. I'm not saying they used to know 1584 01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:11,440 less at all, but you have to know more now because the 1585 01:02:11,560 --> 01:02:14,320 curriculum is more dense. You teach yourself stuff as you 1586 01:02:14,320 --> 01:02:16,200 go through. There's more maths to know, 1587 01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:18,560 there's more English to know. OK, like I said, we taught 1588 01:02:18,560 --> 01:02:19,760 ourselves what adverbs are essentially. 1589 01:02:20,280 --> 01:02:23,680 But do you know what, as a teacher, I think we should know 1590 01:02:23,680 --> 01:02:26,200 what adverts are. I think we should be able to 1591 01:02:26,200 --> 01:02:28,760 with the children, even if we do drop the bar slightly and say 1592 01:02:28,760 --> 01:02:30,680 let's just focus on these fundamentals because they're so 1593 01:02:30,680 --> 01:02:32,200 important. There are always going to be 1594 01:02:32,200 --> 01:02:34,800 children who we need to push on right and do more with. 1595 01:02:35,080 --> 01:02:37,400 And I think as the teacher, we absolutely need to have a 1596 01:02:37,560 --> 01:02:40,600 higher, much higher level of knowledge and be almost a master 1597 01:02:40,600 --> 01:02:43,680 of stuff to be able to allow the children to move 123 steps. 1598 01:02:43,680 --> 01:02:44,640 Forward. There's more I think. 1599 01:02:44,760 --> 01:02:45,920 That's good. Yeah, yeah. 1600 01:02:45,920 --> 01:02:47,240 I think I'm a good example of that. 1601 01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:50,040 I'm sorry to reference, I'm in the year 6 of the 50th. 1602 01:02:50,040 --> 01:02:51,440 Time are you in Year 6 Is it music? 1603 01:02:52,040 --> 01:02:54,240 Is it? Oh yeah, jamming out the 1604 01:02:54,240 --> 01:02:56,960 photocopy every morning because I've got 74 tests to write. 1605 01:02:57,160 --> 01:02:58,720 I've got it's test week every other week actually. 1606 01:02:59,720 --> 01:03:02,320 But like, that's a really that just made me think because I 1607 01:03:02,320 --> 01:03:05,280 teach kids now where do you know what with GPS, grammar, 1608 01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:07,880 punctuation, spelling, Yes, I think it's over the top. 1609 01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:08,800 I agree with everything you said. 1610 01:03:08,800 --> 01:03:12,080 But there are some kids in my class where because they are of 1611 01:03:12,080 --> 01:03:14,520 that just that higher ability, I can teach them all those really 1612 01:03:14,520 --> 01:03:16,480 complex terminologies. And then when it comes to their 1613 01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:19,840 writing, it's so easy to say to them, I can use that language to 1614 01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:22,000 them because as a teacher, I'd be, I might be able to unpick 1615 01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:23,640 writing. I don't care if the kids know. 1616 01:03:23,640 --> 01:03:27,080 But for some kids, I can say, look, when you put your front of 1617 01:03:27,080 --> 01:03:29,360 the verbal there and you didn't use it as a verbal phrase later, 1618 01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:31,080 it made a weird flow to this sentence. 1619 01:03:31,080 --> 01:03:32,920 And they get that I'm like that sick. 1620 01:03:32,920 --> 01:03:35,200 But I don't think every kid needs to know that. 1621 01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:37,760 I just don't think they do. And I'd say that's probably the 1622 01:03:37,760 --> 01:03:41,240 only thing I think has improved is as a teacher myself, there's 1623 01:03:41,840 --> 01:03:43,720 way more I need to know. And I think you're a better 1624 01:03:43,720 --> 01:03:46,040 teacher the more you know. You cannot know everything. 1625 01:03:46,040 --> 01:03:47,280 I'm not saying you should do everything. 1626 01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:50,040 I teach myself about Egyptians every time I do Egyptians. 1627 01:03:50,040 --> 01:03:52,360 That's completely normal. You can't do everything but the 1628 01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:54,440 base level stuff of maths and English in particular. 1629 01:03:54,960 --> 01:03:58,160 I think you being the expert is absolutely a good thing and you 1630 01:03:58,160 --> 01:03:59,680 build that up over time. Yeah, sure. 1631 01:03:59,720 --> 01:04:02,760 So those complexity isn't inherently bad is what you're 1632 01:04:02,760 --> 01:04:04,320 saying. It's just that we've kind of 1633 01:04:04,320 --> 01:04:06,960 overkilled it in this. There was a lot of room for 1634 01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:09,640 simplicity that we've lost. And I think for the kids, 1635 01:04:09,840 --> 01:04:13,480 complexity is bad. I think for the children, simple 1636 01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:16,640 goals where we're not reaching those simple goals, let's not 1637 01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:19,000 add goals to it. Yeah, let's be really simple 1638 01:04:19,000 --> 01:04:21,480 with them and smash them. And let's not forget the whole 1639 01:04:21,480 --> 01:04:23,560 point of this, which Dylan has reinforced a lot for this 1640 01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:28,560 episode, is we make the bars. Everything is made-up. 1641 01:04:28,560 --> 01:04:30,960 Don't forget that. We've set all of these 1642 01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:34,000 boundaries. We decide what we even value. 1643 01:04:34,160 --> 01:04:35,520 And all these metrics have gone up. 1644 01:04:35,520 --> 01:04:37,040 It's like, yeah, because we don't look at the other ones 1645 01:04:37,040 --> 01:04:38,800 anymore. We don't even measure mental 1646 01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:39,520 mass anymore. So. 1647 01:04:39,640 --> 01:04:41,120 So apparently that doesn't matter anymore. 1648 01:04:41,400 --> 01:04:43,560 But to who? That's that's the point I want 1649 01:04:43,560 --> 01:04:44,880 to make of this. You know, I think we've lost our 1650 01:04:44,880 --> 01:04:47,960 way a little bit with education and the real purpose of it. 1651 01:04:48,360 --> 01:04:51,000 It's driving me away from the profession a little bit that is 1652 01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:53,880 making me disengaged from it because I don't think my purpose 1653 01:04:53,880 --> 01:04:56,720 of teaching aligns with the system of education. 1654 01:04:56,920 --> 01:04:59,880 How often have you finished the day of teaching and genuinely 1655 01:04:59,880 --> 01:05:04,440 thought that less than half of that was really, really having 1656 01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:06,560 an impact that's measurable and good on the children? 1657 01:05:06,560 --> 01:05:09,040 And how much have you thought I could have done without that? 1658 01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:11,560 You know, I wish I did. I wish I read that class book 1659 01:05:11,560 --> 01:05:12,960 for longer because the kids are so engaged. 1660 01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:15,960 They're getting more out of reading this story than doing an 1661 01:05:15,960 --> 01:05:18,560 extra 2 tasks in the drug free lesson which was genuinely 1662 01:05:18,560 --> 01:05:19,440 pointless. Do you know what? 1663 01:05:19,880 --> 01:05:22,360 More than half of the time and I think that's where I've been 1664 01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:24,120 pushed over. If it was, maybe if it was less 1665 01:05:24,120 --> 01:05:26,520 than half the time, maybe I'd still be a bit more optimistic. 1666 01:05:26,800 --> 01:05:28,360 It's gone over that boundary for me. 1667 01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:31,120 More than half of my week. I would finish a day, three days 1668 01:05:31,120 --> 01:05:33,520 a week. I will finish and think I could 1669 01:05:33,520 --> 01:05:33,960 have called. Is it? 1670 01:05:33,960 --> 01:05:34,760 Three days a week, The whole week. 1671 01:05:35,760 --> 01:05:38,440 Yeah, true, true. If I worked five days, two of my 1672 01:05:38,600 --> 01:05:42,200 two of my three days a week, I definitely, definitely exposed. 1673 01:05:42,520 --> 01:05:44,520 Yeah, big time. I definitely finished the week 1674 01:05:44,520 --> 01:05:48,360 think the day thinking I didn't need to do half that stuff. 1675 01:05:48,360 --> 01:05:50,280 It was boring, pointless. The kids weren't inspired. 1676 01:05:50,280 --> 01:05:52,200 It was relentless. It's all complex now. 1677 01:05:52,200 --> 01:05:54,240 They think they're rubbish at these things because we did 72 1678 01:05:54,240 --> 01:05:55,960 things at once. And you know, what's sad very 1679 01:05:55,960 --> 01:05:58,360 quickly is when it's in maths and English, you think that 1680 01:05:58,360 --> 01:06:00,480 that's when it's sad because there's so much maths and 1681 01:06:00,480 --> 01:06:02,960 English that has such an impact. And you finished, you finish 1682 01:06:02,960 --> 01:06:05,560 doing English sometimes and you just think, why did I just spend 1683 01:06:05,560 --> 01:06:08,200 40 minutes looking at Test style questions that start with which 1684 01:06:08,200 --> 01:06:09,280 word? It shows you this. 1685 01:06:09,680 --> 01:06:12,360 I could have done such a better, more inspiring lesson about word 1686 01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:14,640 meaning and understanding what words mean without having to do 1687 01:06:14,640 --> 01:06:17,680 it in this test our way. Which, by the way, I only have 1688 01:06:17,680 --> 01:06:20,520 to do because we all decided that's how we measure child's 1689 01:06:20,520 --> 01:06:22,880 ability to read. It's insane. 1690 01:06:22,880 --> 01:06:24,200 And there it comes back to that point, doesn't it? 1691 01:06:24,200 --> 01:06:26,160 I think we've I think we've hammered that point home in this 1692 01:06:26,160 --> 01:06:27,160 episode. I hope you enjoyed it, 1693 01:06:27,160 --> 01:06:28,680 everybody. Now, Dylan, well done, by the 1694 01:06:28,680 --> 01:06:29,880 way. Oh, yeah, for making it through 1695 01:06:29,880 --> 01:06:31,480 this episode. We've only had to do hang on, 1696 01:06:31,480 --> 01:06:33,120 let me just count. Sorry, guys, you have to wait 1697 01:06:33,120 --> 01:06:38,760 for this. No, to sorry, 12345678910 only 1698 01:06:38,760 --> 01:06:40,280 12 edits. So if you've noticed a lot of 1699 01:06:40,280 --> 01:06:42,760 cutting around in this episode, unlike normal where we're pretty 1700 01:06:42,760 --> 01:06:46,320 uncut, it is because Dylan is imploding in his in his head. 1701 01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:49,440 When I talk, OK, maybe it's happening now. 1702 01:06:49,880 --> 01:06:52,440 As soon as I feel fine, when I'm listening to you, I'm like, I'm 1703 01:06:52,440 --> 01:06:54,680 ready to make my point. I start talking and my nose just 1704 01:06:54,680 --> 01:06:56,640 goes close. Yeah, close that off. 1705 01:06:56,640 --> 01:06:58,400 Can't breathe anymore. So I appreciate it. 1706 01:06:58,560 --> 01:06:59,840 I think most people are ill right now. 1707 01:06:59,960 --> 01:07:01,480 Listen, you've done well. You've done well. 1708 01:07:01,480 --> 01:07:02,760 I've done well because you're the one editing. 1709 01:07:02,840 --> 01:07:04,440 Yeah, I am. And normally you've had a 1710 01:07:04,440 --> 01:07:06,680 meltdown by now, so well done, you've made it all the way over. 1711 01:07:06,720 --> 01:07:08,920 How about 5 meltdowns? Hopefully you cut them out. 1712 01:07:09,400 --> 01:07:11,200 I'll tell you what, I'm going to make a super edit. 1713 01:07:12,680 --> 01:07:15,480 Look forward to episode 100. Right, so we're we're looking at 1714 01:07:15,480 --> 01:07:17,360 this now and we're going to let you behind the curtains to see 1715 01:07:17,360 --> 01:07:19,240 how much this was actually affecting. 1716 01:07:19,440 --> 01:07:21,080 We have recorded for one hour 20. 1717 01:07:21,200 --> 01:07:23,560 So whatever you're on now, that's how much Hayden had to 1718 01:07:23,560 --> 01:07:25,000 cut out because of me not being able to. 1719 01:07:25,000 --> 01:07:27,400 Breathe Dylan's snotting right and and with that, I'll leave 1720 01:07:27,400 --> 01:07:29,920 you thinking of Dylan's not see you next see you next time 1721 01:07:29,960 --> 01:07:33,360 episode 99 so. Close. 1722 01:07:33,360 --> 01:07:35,040 Sweet night. Night ice cream for the whole 1723 01:07:35,040 --> 01:07:35,400 thing? No. 1724 01:07:35,400 --> 01:07:35,800 OK.