1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:05,060 Hola, I thought. So do they teach, sleep, repeat 2 00:00:05,070 --> 00:00:06,460 or me nombre. Dillon. 3 00:00:07,990 --> 00:00:10,790 Mean hombre, a Hayden. And welcome back to that 4 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:11,760 episode. Hey, how you doing? 5 00:00:12,580 --> 00:00:14,370 I'm alright mate. That was that was a bit random. 6 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:16,230 Where did that come from? What do you mean? 7 00:00:17,390 --> 00:00:19,400 You started in. I think it was that Spanish. 8 00:00:19,910 --> 00:00:22,870 Hey, was that you started back? Do you not realise? 9 00:00:23,020 --> 00:00:25,210 Mate, are you hallucinating because you're selling? 10 00:00:25,220 --> 00:00:27,450 Is that what's going on? Are you are you feeling OK? 11 00:00:27,500 --> 00:00:29,470 Ohh, anyone doesn't know? Hey, this feeling a bit poorly 12 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:31,270 this week. I'm not feeling, so I'm not 13 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:33,410 feeling so good, alright. Anyone who watched the podcast 14 00:00:33,420 --> 00:00:35,690 is in for an absolute treat looking at. 15 00:00:35,700 --> 00:00:36,970 That. Hiya. 16 00:00:37,340 --> 00:00:39,030 Hi. I'm in an Addy. 17 00:00:39,460 --> 00:00:40,850 I'm comfy. I'm cosy. 18 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:44,070 I'm here recording the podcast. Alright, leave me alone. 19 00:00:44,260 --> 00:00:46,150 Well, you might be wondering why we're not in the same place. 20 00:00:46,230 --> 00:00:48,110 That's why I don't fancy his lurgy. 21 00:00:48,370 --> 00:00:49,990 Hey, did you not already help you feel better? 22 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:52,960 You do fancy me, though. Ohh Joe help you? 23 00:00:53,430 --> 00:00:55,720 Cool. You need to drink cafe every 24 00:00:55,730 --> 00:00:59,960 morning that gut microbes again. Get it going my friend. 25 00:01:00,050 --> 00:01:03,600 I don't know if you've seen, but if you don't start the day off 26 00:01:03,610 --> 00:01:07,210 with an ice bath and a bit of cafe, then you are simply not 27 00:01:07,220 --> 00:01:09,510 looking after your. Body is that after going to the 28 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:11,760 gym at 5:00 AM? Yeah, exactly that. 29 00:01:11,770 --> 00:01:14,340 And do you know what? I wake up early every morning. 30 00:01:14,350 --> 00:01:17,480 I wake up at 4:00 AM. That gives ME3 extra hours. 31 00:01:17,490 --> 00:01:20,920 If you extrapolate that over a week, that's 7 * 3. 32 00:01:20,930 --> 00:01:23,530 That's an extra day. We get an extra day compared to 33 00:01:23,540 --> 00:01:26,190 you every single week. That's just for a second. 34 00:01:26,290 --> 00:01:29,130 Let's just speak about that. Don't you just hate those 35 00:01:29,140 --> 00:01:31,550 videos? The honest to God they are so 36 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:33,370 popular. Every single person ever on 37 00:01:33,380 --> 00:01:35,790 Instagram is making videos. Like I get up, I'm in the 2:00 38 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:37,490 AM club. It's getting earlier and 39 00:01:37,500 --> 00:01:38,240 earlier. It's like you. 40 00:01:38,250 --> 00:01:39,410 Don't sleep anymore. Sleep. 41 00:01:39,460 --> 00:01:42,130 Yeah, can't sleep. Honest to God it did. 42 00:01:42,140 --> 00:01:45,160 You know, Hate him. If you save 1 LB Every single 43 00:01:45,170 --> 00:01:47,090 day for a year, how much money you have at the end? 44 00:01:47,770 --> 00:01:49,840 30,000 lbs? Some believable. 45 00:01:49,930 --> 00:01:51,140 Just one pound every. Day. 46 00:01:51,550 --> 00:01:52,700 What? What? 47 00:01:52,710 --> 00:01:53,920 What? Why are you saying that? 48 00:01:53,990 --> 00:01:54,750 That's. Wrong. 49 00:01:54,910 --> 00:01:56,940 I'm a financial guru. Just save 1 LB out. 50 00:01:56,950 --> 00:01:58,960 It's easy. Anyone who's complaining about 51 00:01:58,970 --> 00:02:02,220 not being able to make it anywhere, 1 LB a day, get up, 52 00:02:02,230 --> 00:02:04,080 have an extra day. I've got an extra day every 53 00:02:04,090 --> 00:02:06,440 morning that everyone else gets. I get that. 54 00:02:06,530 --> 00:02:09,000 And that's how you make gains. Hayden, how you doing? 55 00:02:09,009 --> 00:02:10,820 How's your week? Yeah, yeah, really good. 56 00:02:10,830 --> 00:02:12,600 Thanks for the advice that I get. 57 00:02:12,610 --> 00:02:16,040 The analogy now on how good, how good that advice is might be 58 00:02:16,050 --> 00:02:18,120 good other than the fact I've got this. 59 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:21,080 So if you know, got a cold again, I'm feeling so great. 60 00:02:21,350 --> 00:02:23,520 Yeah, wearing a nerdy, not feeling good. 61 00:02:24,270 --> 00:02:25,500 Didn't sleep you. Do you? 62 00:02:25,510 --> 00:02:29,580 Honest, I'm just like, jokes aside for a second, you do have 63 00:02:29,590 --> 00:02:33,420 the worst immune system of anyone I've ever met, annoying 64 00:02:33,430 --> 00:02:34,300 or. I don't know. 65 00:02:34,310 --> 00:02:36,420 It's not been, it's just been a bit rubbish recently. 66 00:02:36,430 --> 00:02:38,320 Isn't it time? Yeah, recently. 67 00:02:38,330 --> 00:02:40,560 I don't recently for you. I didn't get COVID. 68 00:02:41,260 --> 00:02:44,850 That's right. You you didn't do a test that 69 00:02:44,860 --> 00:02:46,470 told you you had COVID. That's what you're. 70 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:49,010 Saying I I did tests, they just they came back negative. 71 00:02:49,060 --> 00:02:51,110 Ohh OK yeah. Why everyone? 72 00:02:51,340 --> 00:02:53,850 Do you know why? Because Hayden can't put a stick 73 00:02:53,860 --> 00:02:56,570 on his tonsils. He physically can't do it. 74 00:02:56,620 --> 00:02:59,930 So he did. Yeah. 75 00:02:59,940 --> 00:03:01,140 You could test. I used. 76 00:03:01,150 --> 00:03:02,460 You would not put on your tonsils yet. 77 00:03:02,470 --> 00:03:05,140 Ohh, I've not got it. Did you did you do the part of 78 00:03:05,150 --> 00:03:07,460 the test where it would get the? No, I didn't do that bit. 79 00:03:07,510 --> 00:03:09,220 Right. Yeah, because they went to nose 80 00:03:09,230 --> 00:03:10,810 only. They did go to nose only those 81 00:03:10,820 --> 00:03:12,680 sticks. They were not for your tonsils 82 00:03:12,690 --> 00:03:16,080 anymore after like months. So none of that. 83 00:03:16,590 --> 00:03:19,560 None other than you. Little cold, cold, cold. 84 00:03:19,570 --> 00:03:20,740 How's your? How's your week been? 85 00:03:21,260 --> 00:03:24,240 It's been alright. We had we had our 500 mock Sats 86 00:03:24,250 --> 00:03:27,090 this week. That's right. 87 00:03:27,170 --> 00:03:30,070 Yeah, yeah, Classic six. We just ram them into a smaller 88 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:32,350 time period because they do the Sats before the end of the year 89 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:35,460 for some reason. That was all right, but it's 90 00:03:35,470 --> 00:03:37,160 just stressful, isn't it? Marking papers. 91 00:03:37,570 --> 00:03:39,700 I always think, yeah, no marking, I don't know what is 92 00:03:39,710 --> 00:03:42,350 wrong with me every time we do a mock test week, right? 93 00:03:42,470 --> 00:03:44,730 I always think, oh, that's good because we got no, like, actual 94 00:03:44,740 --> 00:03:46,360 lessons. I'm like, yeah, easy week, no 95 00:03:46,370 --> 00:03:48,280 marking. I always seem to forget that 96 00:03:48,290 --> 00:03:50,730 marking tests takes three times as long as your actual marketing 97 00:03:50,740 --> 00:03:52,880 does. But got it done. 98 00:03:52,950 --> 00:03:55,180 All good. Bit of progress. 99 00:03:55,190 --> 00:03:57,060 Everyone's feeling good. Kids are ready. 100 00:03:57,070 --> 00:04:00,820 It's you know which one weeks. Do you do what? 101 00:04:00,830 --> 00:04:03,490 What papers didn't you do? The 2023 papers, which were 102 00:04:03,500 --> 00:04:05,620 renowned for being really, really, really hard. 103 00:04:05,630 --> 00:04:07,610 I don't know. Yeah, I'm pretending we're not. 104 00:04:07,620 --> 00:04:09,420 No. But yeah, the 2023 papers, I 105 00:04:09,430 --> 00:04:13,200 really hate them. Like, I I do think I'm a classic 106 00:04:13,210 --> 00:04:16,160 person who like loads of teachers do this every year. 107 00:04:16,170 --> 00:04:17,760 It's the worst year ever, right? Every. 108 00:04:17,769 --> 00:04:19,029 Every year. Ohh, so much harder than 109 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:20,070 previous years. We all do it. 110 00:04:20,170 --> 00:04:21,450 And I do think I'm one of those people. 111 00:04:21,459 --> 00:04:24,130 But then I try and reflect after and be like, OK, calm down, It's 112 00:04:24,140 --> 00:04:25,820 done Now. Is it actually or is it just 113 00:04:25,830 --> 00:04:28,900 exactly the same as it is every other year and having? 114 00:04:28,910 --> 00:04:29,920 Done that? No, I was. 115 00:04:29,930 --> 00:04:31,480 Right. Yeah. 116 00:04:31,530 --> 00:04:35,390 Well, not not completely, but like there was just a few bits 117 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:36,330 about it. I just thought. 118 00:04:36,340 --> 00:04:39,340 I just thought the questions weren't particularly well 119 00:04:39,350 --> 00:04:41,350 written, particularly in the reading, like there was way too 120 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:43,290 many questions to do in the reading. 121 00:04:43,300 --> 00:04:45,700 I know you made a video on YouTube last year, didn't you, 122 00:04:45,710 --> 00:04:48,130 about all the controversy around all the English. 123 00:04:48,170 --> 00:04:50,250 And it's definitely true. It was just poorly written. 124 00:04:50,340 --> 00:04:54,230 The the paper, some of the reasoning of the mass was just a 125 00:04:54,270 --> 00:04:56,770 just a bit harsh, just a bit unnecessarily mean. 126 00:04:56,840 --> 00:04:58,800 There'll be like A1 mark question with three steps and 127 00:04:58,810 --> 00:05:02,800 you're like, oh, that's not really happened before, but you 128 00:05:02,810 --> 00:05:05,980 know, it's it's not that bad. The mark, the Passmark was 129 00:05:05,990 --> 00:05:08,300 lower, which I never actually knew until we did it again this 130 00:05:08,310 --> 00:05:09,940 year. I never actually found out what 131 00:05:09,950 --> 00:05:11,400 it was, but it was lower than previous years. 132 00:05:11,410 --> 00:05:14,120 So it's fine. It was adjusted to to make up 133 00:05:14,130 --> 00:05:15,290 for the fact that it was more difficult. 134 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:21,110 Yeah, yeah, I reckon if you look back at the papers, isn't there, 135 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:25,010 isn't it something like 2023? I think everyone agrees is is 136 00:05:25,020 --> 00:05:26,250 tricky. There was a big fire at the 137 00:05:26,260 --> 00:05:27,620 time. I think everyone is a bit like 138 00:05:27,630 --> 00:05:31,420 maybe we overreacted slightly when you look at it because some 139 00:05:31,430 --> 00:05:34,460 of them are like, OK, yeah, OK, they're just, they're a bit 140 00:05:34,470 --> 00:05:37,060 tricky, whatever. But isn't it 2023? 141 00:05:37,070 --> 00:05:40,030 And is it 2016 that's like renowned for being ridiculously 142 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:42,180 hard. I don't if it's 2016, we never 143 00:05:42,190 --> 00:05:44,280 go back that far anymore. But 2018 certainly? 144 00:05:44,290 --> 00:05:47,640 Is the 2018 tests are just savage? 145 00:05:47,690 --> 00:05:49,360 We did them with this, with this. 146 00:05:50,140 --> 00:05:52,620 It was like the second one we did in the year and then someone 147 00:05:52,630 --> 00:05:54,760 else went down. It was like, yeah, that test is 148 00:05:54,770 --> 00:05:57,830 absolutely savage. I still think that's the hardest 149 00:05:57,840 --> 00:05:59,740 one, but I was comparing them because we did that not too long 150 00:05:59,750 --> 00:06:03,470 ago and I was like, Nah, 2018 is still nastier than 2023 in my 151 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:05,010 opinion. Fair enough. 152 00:06:05,020 --> 00:06:07,730 Well, we can, we can have four. We don't have that what you say. 153 00:06:08,390 --> 00:06:11,380 I say we can talk sats bit more later because we've got some, 154 00:06:11,770 --> 00:06:13,630 we've got some episodes planned In the future we might be 155 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:16,110 talking about some guests. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 156 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:18,760 You're gonna returning guests. Yeah, we're gonna try and get 157 00:06:18,810 --> 00:06:22,300 get people back on the podcast. I've had people message me so 158 00:06:22,310 --> 00:06:25,620 often over the last like, honest about four months saying like, 159 00:06:25,630 --> 00:06:26,740 oh, I'd love to come on at some point. 160 00:06:26,750 --> 00:06:28,980 And I'm like genuinely like, yeah, that would be great, that 161 00:06:28,990 --> 00:06:30,980 would be fantastic. But you know what's easier for 162 00:06:30,990 --> 00:06:33,700 me if I roll out of bed? Just drive to Hayden and then 163 00:06:33,710 --> 00:06:34,760 record. After you out of bed. 164 00:06:34,770 --> 00:06:41,260 Sorry sorry sorry what what do you do out of bed because I I 165 00:06:41,270 --> 00:06:45,630 heard role I heard roll out of if you if I roll out of it I 166 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:49,040 just have context everyone Dylan simply a voice note to the group 167 00:06:49,050 --> 00:06:53,100 chat and say me him and our girlfriends trying to get us to 168 00:06:53,110 --> 00:06:56,840 back him up because his his Lauren his girlfriend who's 169 00:06:56,850 --> 00:06:59,820 called Lauren both called Lauren was taking the Mick out of him 170 00:06:59,830 --> 00:07:04,580 for for not pronouncing rolling. No, correctly. 171 00:07:04,790 --> 00:07:06,380 I'm having it right. I'm gonna say it. 172 00:07:06,390 --> 00:07:09,510 I'm gonna say the word, and then you're gonna say the word, and 173 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:11,380 the listeners will tell us if there's any difference 174 00:07:11,390 --> 00:07:12,280 whatsoever. You go first. 175 00:07:12,290 --> 00:07:14,010 Actually gone. OK, rolling. 176 00:07:14,910 --> 00:07:19,820 Rolling so different, there is no difference whatsoever. 177 00:07:19,830 --> 00:07:20,880 Honest. Honestly. 178 00:07:21,220 --> 00:07:23,440 Go. On OK, when you speak, I think 179 00:07:23,450 --> 00:07:27,670 you're about to tell me about you're in a boat rowing, right? 180 00:07:27,740 --> 00:07:31,380 Whereas when I'm speaking, I'm thinking about like a sandwich 181 00:07:31,390 --> 00:07:32,210 A. Roll. 182 00:07:32,420 --> 00:07:36,050 I'm rolling here. What What do you do with 10 pins 183 00:07:36,060 --> 00:07:38,340 with a with a ball when you Chuck it down the alley? 184 00:07:38,350 --> 00:07:40,270 What are you doing? Bowling. 185 00:07:40,750 --> 00:07:43,040 Bowling. No, not bowling. 186 00:07:43,110 --> 00:07:44,820 It's not a it's not a bow and arrow. 187 00:07:44,870 --> 00:07:46,720 You're not firing the bowl like this. 188 00:07:47,250 --> 00:07:51,080 I'm going bowling. No, it's bowling, Bowling. 189 00:07:52,420 --> 00:07:53,870 I don't even mind that you say it different. 190 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:55,520 It's just the fact that you think they're the same. 191 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:57,350 You think that there's no difference in what we're. 192 00:07:57,360 --> 00:07:58,950 Saying no, no, I need to explain this. 193 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:01,730 I need to explain this. I'm I'm actually, I'm genuinely 194 00:08:01,740 --> 00:08:03,400 more than willing to accept that I say it wrong. 195 00:08:03,410 --> 00:08:06,500 Because there's there's a lot of things I say wrong whether it's 196 00:08:06,510 --> 00:08:09,670 idioms or wrong way round or you know I've got a bit of a 197 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:12,520 northern twang in like every other word sometimes that I'm 198 00:08:12,530 --> 00:08:14,070 saying I I'm willing to accept that. 199 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:18,880 But I truly sit here and don't understand at all the difference 200 00:08:18,890 --> 00:08:20,530 between these two, these two words that you're saying. 201 00:08:20,540 --> 00:08:23,460 Like when people tell me I'm like I even I even would accept 202 00:08:23,470 --> 00:08:25,420 that you're right. I want you all to understand in 203 00:08:25,430 --> 00:08:27,260 my brain. I think I'm going crazy because 204 00:08:27,270 --> 00:08:29,420 I don't know the difference whatsoever between these. 205 00:08:30,650 --> 00:08:33,950 Well, let's keep rolling with the Let's keep rolling with the 206 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:36,380 podcast. Yeah, you'd forget your You'd 207 00:08:36,390 --> 00:08:38,380 forget your screw. If your If your head wasn't, 208 00:08:39,059 --> 00:08:43,799 your head wasn't on. You can't even do it wrong, you 209 00:08:43,809 --> 00:08:46,260 guys can say last time. You'd forget your head if it 210 00:08:46,270 --> 00:08:48,290 wasn't. Attached or something like that, 211 00:08:49,030 --> 00:08:50,860 you didn't even finish. Forget your head. 212 00:08:50,910 --> 00:08:53,410 If you didn't have a vertebrae attack, you go to your spine. 213 00:08:55,560 --> 00:08:57,830 Ah, that's the one, Dylan. Well done. 214 00:08:57,940 --> 00:08:59,770 Anyway, how's your how's your week? 215 00:08:59,780 --> 00:09:00,750 How? Have you been? 216 00:09:00,820 --> 00:09:03,480 Yeah, fine, fine. We had our last week of swimming 217 00:09:03,490 --> 00:09:06,190 this week, and obviously swimming is amazing, but it kind 218 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:07,890 of messes up your afternoon curriculum a bit. 219 00:09:07,940 --> 00:09:09,970 Like when it's so intricately planned to cover everything and 220 00:09:09,980 --> 00:09:11,410 there's already not enough time to do stuff. 221 00:09:11,420 --> 00:09:13,390 And then suddenly it's like, by the way, and after, you know, a 222 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:16,060 week for four weeks, you're going swimming and it's ohh, OK. 223 00:09:16,100 --> 00:09:18,850 So we kind of rejig stuff around, but it just so happened 224 00:09:18,860 --> 00:09:20,650 in in the afternoon where they go swimming. 225 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:23,690 I constantly had like half an hour spare with the kids after 226 00:09:23,700 --> 00:09:25,320 we got on the register, they got their stuff. 227 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:27,430 We we just had half an hour to the coach got there. 228 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:29,530 So what can I do that's quite useful. 229 00:09:29,580 --> 00:09:32,230 And I was thinking, I don't get time for handwriting, don't get 230 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:33,940 much time at all in school for handwriting. 231 00:09:33,950 --> 00:09:37,870 So over the last couple of weeks we've been printing out some 232 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:41,930 prompts and stuff some help with lines and we had a real focus in 233 00:09:41,940 --> 00:09:47,840 my class about it's as simple as this the height of your letters 234 00:09:48,150 --> 00:09:50,260 and the fact that I need to be able to read them and it's 235 00:09:50,270 --> 00:09:53,920 become a running joke and and it is funny but it's also true and 236 00:09:53,930 --> 00:09:56,660 I explained to the kids and me and you talked about this before 237 00:09:56,670 --> 00:09:59,050 I loved doing this. When you actually just stop you 238 00:09:59,060 --> 00:10:01,580 and before you do something with the children you simply just 239 00:10:01,590 --> 00:10:04,100 explain why you're doing this. So instead of just being like 240 00:10:04,150 --> 00:10:06,060 right hand writing here's what it actually looks like. 241 00:10:06,110 --> 00:10:09,370 Can you copy that 10 times then we'll do an I actually saying to 242 00:10:09,380 --> 00:10:13,760 us like why do you think that we practise handwriting in school? 243 00:10:13,830 --> 00:10:15,150 Like what? What is the point? 244 00:10:15,220 --> 00:10:17,210 And it was amazing. It was such a good thing to do 245 00:10:17,220 --> 00:10:20,070 such a simple process with the kids because the 1st 6 answers 246 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:23,370 were complete nonsense. Genuinely it took a good 3 247 00:10:23,380 --> 00:10:25,880 minutes to get to the actual reason and it made me think, 248 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:27,850 God, they don't know. Half the time they just they 249 00:10:27,860 --> 00:10:30,070 just think that you know their teachers get them to write an 250 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:32,950 age but that's cool and there's no application then to their 251 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:34,780 work. So we had a chat and they were 252 00:10:34,790 --> 00:10:39,410 like because on the board it's that tall And I was like ohh, 253 00:10:39,420 --> 00:10:41,070 true. But that's not the reason why we 254 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:43,550 practise handwriting is it? And then the next person said, 255 00:10:43,620 --> 00:10:45,170 because we do writing in our book. 256 00:10:45,260 --> 00:10:47,940 And I was like, I I can't what you mean. 257 00:10:48,030 --> 00:10:50,680 But again, that's not why we're doing it. 258 00:10:50,690 --> 00:10:52,500 You know, it's not an actual reason. 259 00:10:52,590 --> 00:10:55,340 And we ended up getting to the point where one child said, this 260 00:10:55,350 --> 00:10:57,310 is so that you can read it properly. 261 00:10:57,320 --> 00:10:59,580 And I was like, yes, it is as simple as that. 262 00:10:59,590 --> 00:11:02,790 We practise handwriting, so anyone who picks up your work 263 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:05,040 who isn't used to your writing can still read it. 264 00:11:05,050 --> 00:11:07,940 Because I'll be very honest, guys, when I read your work, I 265 00:11:07,950 --> 00:11:09,810 know for a fact there are other teachers in the school who 266 00:11:09,820 --> 00:11:11,680 wouldn't know what you're, what you're putting down. 267 00:11:11,690 --> 00:11:13,720 But I do because I'm used to seeing what your letters are 268 00:11:13,730 --> 00:11:15,800 like. So anyway we do this for a 269 00:11:15,810 --> 00:11:18,370 couple of weeks and I just had one of them moments again as a 270 00:11:18,380 --> 00:11:21,290 teacher that we talked about recently where those small wins, 271 00:11:21,300 --> 00:11:25,190 where you're just like, ohh, yeah OK this this is progress. 272 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:28,220 And This is why we do this because one of the children and 273 00:11:28,230 --> 00:11:30,610 this was in an English lesson so we've been doing handwriting and 274 00:11:30,620 --> 00:11:34,170 writing and it was English lesson and I was just talking. 275 00:11:34,180 --> 00:11:36,790 We we set them off on the task and I just said to them, I I 276 00:11:36,860 --> 00:11:40,470 pointed to the board where I've got a little like double line 277 00:11:40,660 --> 00:11:43,170 where I tell them how high their letter should go because either 278 00:11:43,180 --> 00:11:45,450 their letters go to roughly halfway or to the top. 279 00:11:45,490 --> 00:11:46,740 You know what it's like teaching kids. 280 00:11:46,750 --> 00:11:48,530 It's tiny. Sometimes it's really small. 281 00:11:48,540 --> 00:11:51,460 They just squeeze it in. And this kid just halfway 282 00:11:51,470 --> 00:11:53,680 through their writing task, put their hand up. 283 00:11:53,850 --> 00:11:55,560 And I was like, yeah. And I was expecting him to say, 284 00:11:55,570 --> 00:11:57,480 how do you spell this word? Or does this make sense? 285 00:11:57,490 --> 00:11:59,380 Or can you check my work, you know, as you always do? 286 00:11:59,810 --> 00:12:03,580 And he just said, I've noticed my handwriting is much better 287 00:12:03,590 --> 00:12:07,100 Now I'm getting to halfway. And I was like, amazing, 288 00:12:07,110 --> 00:12:08,520 brilliant. This is why. 289 00:12:08,530 --> 00:12:10,680 This is why we're doing it. And if you look at the 290 00:12:10,690 --> 00:12:13,880 handwriting across the board, it is improving. 291 00:12:13,930 --> 00:12:17,520 And I think sometimes we get caught up as teachers when 292 00:12:17,530 --> 00:12:19,720 people introduce stuff or when you're just doing stuff for 293 00:12:19,730 --> 00:12:21,580 run-of-the-mill, OK, yeah, whatever. 294 00:12:21,770 --> 00:12:24,700 And and you notice that it's not really shifting the dial much 295 00:12:25,430 --> 00:12:27,700 actually you can shift the dial with these children if you're 296 00:12:27,710 --> 00:12:29,520 really specific about what you're doing. 297 00:12:29,710 --> 00:12:33,110 If you have small goals is is what I think small steps with 298 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:35,200 the kids. The only thing my class have 299 00:12:35,210 --> 00:12:37,420 been focusing on in terms of their handwriting for about four 300 00:12:37,430 --> 00:12:39,320 weeks now is the height of their letters. 301 00:12:39,730 --> 00:12:42,890 If it's slightly scruffy, if it wasn't joined up properly, if 302 00:12:42,900 --> 00:12:45,700 the the gaps between the words were inconsistent. 303 00:12:45,810 --> 00:12:48,560 I did not have a problem with what they were doing. 304 00:12:48,690 --> 00:12:51,330 All I was really laser focused on was the height of their 305 00:12:51,340 --> 00:12:54,200 letters and it really made a difference in such a short piece 306 00:12:54,210 --> 00:12:54,750 of time. I don't know. 307 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:56,850 One of things I want to share with you that it does work if 308 00:12:56,860 --> 00:12:58,790 you have that laser focus. Yeah. 309 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:01,210 And it's and and the other side of it, the whole the whole point 310 00:13:01,220 --> 00:13:05,790 I guess is that the handwriting and time for handwriting just is 311 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:07,410 just pushed out the curriculum, isn't it? 312 00:13:07,470 --> 00:13:11,430 I'd wonder how many schools actually have proper time put 313 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:12,710 aside to do things that handwriting. 314 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:14,190 I reckon that is the first thing to go. 315 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:16,540 As soon as it's Ohh no we're not teaching enough science. 316 00:13:16,550 --> 00:13:19,390 You know bump handwriting times gone and then we go, why is the 317 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:21,200 handwriting so bad and you're 6. It's like, well, I'm not 318 00:13:21,210 --> 00:13:23,880 actually had any any actual teaching like that, like 319 00:13:23,890 --> 00:13:26,670 specific focuses where they can really make improvements for 320 00:13:26,680 --> 00:13:30,660 ages, any, any, any other areas of the curriculum like like like 321 00:13:30,670 --> 00:13:32,920 handwriting where it's like just completely disregarded now and 322 00:13:32,930 --> 00:13:36,580 never gets put in really. Yeah, I would say. 323 00:13:36,590 --> 00:13:40,480 I would say foundational maths. And that sounds ridiculous, but 324 00:13:40,530 --> 00:13:43,780 I'm talking very specific maths skills that like aren't maybe 325 00:13:43,790 --> 00:13:45,640 explicitly written into the curriculum. 326 00:13:45,690 --> 00:13:48,740 Where if a child gets to year three right, and they can't 327 00:13:48,750 --> 00:13:53,530 really AA number or have a number or you know those kind of 328 00:13:53,540 --> 00:13:56,780 foundational skills that you know how to add. 329 00:13:57,050 --> 00:14:01,700 Let's say how to add 39, right? To explicitly give time to show 330 00:14:01,710 --> 00:14:04,660 children that most adults, if they add 39, just add 40 and 331 00:14:04,670 --> 00:14:07,080 take away one. I know it's in their points, but 332 00:14:07,090 --> 00:14:08,640 it might be like a standalone lesson. 333 00:14:09,070 --> 00:14:12,300 There's a lot of stuff like that where it kind of just, it just 334 00:14:12,310 --> 00:14:14,530 gets swept under the rug because there's not time learner 335 00:14:14,540 --> 00:14:16,480 procedure. There's enough time to do it. 336 00:14:16,490 --> 00:14:18,370 Yeah, there's the curriculum to do, and it's like this is an 337 00:14:18,380 --> 00:14:21,020 underpinning skill. It's not an actual learning 338 00:14:21,030 --> 00:14:23,320 objective on the curriculum. So ohh, let's hope some of you 339 00:14:23,330 --> 00:14:25,360 pick it up. But yeah, really should be like, 340 00:14:25,370 --> 00:14:27,160 no, we need to teach them. All, yeah. 341 00:14:27,170 --> 00:14:29,380 If you think about doubling, you can use short multiplication 342 00:14:29,390 --> 00:14:30,900 just times by two. And that's what most kids were 343 00:14:30,910 --> 00:14:32,830 doing my class. Well, actually the mental 344 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:36,340 arithmetic of learning how to double the number in your head 345 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:38,560 is actually really, really useful in life. 346 00:14:38,610 --> 00:14:41,700 And I remember when we were in school and I'd bring these back. 347 00:14:41,710 --> 00:14:43,020 I don't know if they still go on or not. 348 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:46,480 We were in school, we'd sit down and the teacher would put Mr 349 00:14:46,490 --> 00:14:48,380 Lex. I remember in year six, he'd get 350 00:14:48,390 --> 00:14:49,860 a little tape. It would go into a tape 351 00:14:49,870 --> 00:14:51,980 recorder, push it in. I remember the click and he 352 00:14:51,990 --> 00:14:55,260 pressed play and it would be this voice and say you do a 353 00:14:55,270 --> 00:14:57,080 maths test where it's 30 questions. 354 00:14:57,170 --> 00:14:59,590 There was no repeating and they moved on to the next question 355 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:01,980 after like 6 to 10 seconds. And it was, it was questions 356 00:15:01,990 --> 00:15:03,760 like that. It was nine. 357 00:15:03,770 --> 00:15:06,800 Add 7 and you had like 6 seconds to do it and every five. 358 00:15:06,900 --> 00:15:08,950 Wouldn't it be harder, right? Exactly. 359 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:12,930 And by the end you get a bunch of children who you know, OK, 360 00:15:12,940 --> 00:15:15,800 you guys, you stop at 20. I I remember there was a table. 361 00:15:15,810 --> 00:15:18,090 They just stopped there and they were like, you know, brilliant. 362 00:15:18,100 --> 00:15:19,780 We'll, we'll finish it off. Everyone else would carry on for 363 00:15:19,790 --> 00:15:21,350 a minute. They'd be doing something else. 364 00:15:21,460 --> 00:15:23,410 Yeah, but I thought that was really good. 365 00:15:23,420 --> 00:15:24,840 I thought that's fantastic practise. 366 00:15:24,850 --> 00:15:29,060 And now, when was the last time in real life you did maths and 367 00:15:29,070 --> 00:15:30,540 you needed a pen and paper to do the maths? 368 00:15:32,510 --> 00:15:35,590 In outside of teaching. Just yet in real life, like as 369 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:37,580 an adult, you know, coping in this. 370 00:15:37,590 --> 00:15:38,660 World. No, Never. 371 00:15:38,670 --> 00:15:40,000 Really. Very, very, very. 372 00:15:40,010 --> 00:15:40,740 I can't. I can't. 373 00:15:40,750 --> 00:15:43,000 How often? How often do you do maths in 374 00:15:43,010 --> 00:15:44,770 your head? All the time. 375 00:15:44,780 --> 00:15:47,320 I love maths. Yeah, I just did it for fun. 376 00:15:47,330 --> 00:15:48,710 Yeah. Every time you go shopping, 377 00:15:48,820 --> 00:15:52,070 you're kind of, you know, you're kind of keeping an eye on how 378 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:54,670 much you're spending. You're thinking, OK, well that's 379 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:57,370 a fiver for six roles, but this is a tenner for 12 roles. 380 00:15:57,380 --> 00:15:58,640 Is that the same? Is that different? 381 00:15:58,650 --> 00:16:00,070 You know, I might as well get a big one. 382 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:02,230 And time. Like constantly doing massive 383 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:02,950 time. Especially now. 384 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:05,610 We got the kids always thinking about time, time, time, time for 385 00:16:05,620 --> 00:16:06,700 this. How long to go for a walk? 386 00:16:06,710 --> 00:16:08,590 How long have a nap. How long You know, how long till 387 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:10,110 they're gonna be tired again? All that sort of stuff. 388 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:11,690 And OK. And let's let's ask you right 389 00:16:11,700 --> 00:16:14,990 now then in your year six class, how many children can do long 390 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:17,140 division perfectly divided by 43? 391 00:16:17,190 --> 00:16:19,600 How many children can tell the duration of time between two 392 00:16:19,610 --> 00:16:22,970 points? Ohh, I reckon more people can do 393 00:16:22,980 --> 00:16:26,310 long division than tell the time, which is like a year three 394 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:27,780 skill. Yeah, telling the time is 395 00:16:27,790 --> 00:16:30,270 embarrassing. I I I just I'm still shocked 396 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:35,070 when when year six kids ask me ohh, what's the time and I go 397 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:37,160 what's there the clock's there the clock's been there all year 398 00:16:37,210 --> 00:16:39,820 It's it's still there. Ohh I can't read it. 399 00:16:39,830 --> 00:16:42,140 So what do you what you know obviously I would be like what 400 00:16:42,150 --> 00:16:46,540 you buffoon but I am so in my head I'm like Jesus Christ I no 401 00:16:46,550 --> 00:16:48,120 no one can tell the time anymore. 402 00:16:48,180 --> 00:16:49,310 And yeah, you're right. That is one of those 403 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:52,560 foundational skills that just, I mean time is in the curriculum 404 00:16:52,670 --> 00:16:55,900 and we talked about how we think maybe there's a bit of a parent 405 00:16:55,910 --> 00:16:57,930 expectation maybe to help your kids learn how to tell the time 406 00:16:57,940 --> 00:16:59,470 because that's that's just a part of life. 407 00:17:00,770 --> 00:17:02,390 But yeah, definitely financial skills, I think. 408 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:04,150 I actually think to an extent reading as well. 409 00:17:04,910 --> 00:17:08,160 I reckon if we look at reading, as in kids just reading a book 410 00:17:08,210 --> 00:17:12,250 in school time now compared to when we were at school, that 411 00:17:12,260 --> 00:17:13,810 time has drastically gone, isn't it? 412 00:17:13,819 --> 00:17:16,869 I remember being at school and regularly in the week we'd have 413 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:21,109 like a whole 40 minute slot where it was like cool, everyone 414 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:22,910 go like get your favourite reading book, go and sit 415 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:24,780 somewhere really nice and just like just read. 416 00:17:24,819 --> 00:17:26,619 We had a little library at school and we just go there all 417 00:17:26,630 --> 00:17:29,170 the time and it was really like well, you know, put together, it 418 00:17:29,180 --> 00:17:30,670 was lovely. It was a nice area to be in and 419 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:33,290 we're just going to sit on some bean bags and I'll just read a 420 00:17:33,300 --> 00:17:37,690 book for 40 minutes and I was like, ohh lunchtime now Brill 421 00:17:38,020 --> 00:17:39,930 who could read stories. They were great readers. 422 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:43,950 Even Yeah, I loved it when when the teacher end of every day 423 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:46,160 we'd read part of our book and that's a big thing that still 424 00:17:46,170 --> 00:17:48,270 happens in schools is a big thing Ofsted push and they they 425 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:51,350 say that should be happening. But I always find it fantastic 426 00:17:51,360 --> 00:17:53,570 when Ofsted tell me as a teacher what I should be doing with my 427 00:17:53,580 --> 00:17:55,770 day in a day where it's absolutely crammed already with 428 00:17:55,780 --> 00:17:57,410 the expectation that it already set. 429 00:17:57,460 --> 00:18:01,690 And I'm like shut shut up. If if you gave me full autonomy 430 00:18:01,740 --> 00:18:04,930 over my day I'll tell you what we'd be doing reading more than 431 00:18:04,940 --> 00:18:06,690 anything. I'll tell you that now every 432 00:18:06,700 --> 00:18:09,980 single day of the week, but I can't and that's because of you 433 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:12,200 posted. So please don't turn around then 434 00:18:12,210 --> 00:18:14,220 and tell me ohh. It's beneficial if the children 435 00:18:14,230 --> 00:18:15,500 read for 20 minutes, end of the day. 436 00:18:15,510 --> 00:18:17,900 A class book I know. It is it, is it? 437 00:18:17,910 --> 00:18:19,930 Yeah. Hmm, honestly. 438 00:18:19,940 --> 00:18:22,110 Like you're in control of the reason why it doesn't happen. 439 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:25,410 Thanks Mr Ofsted. Person or or leader of education 440 00:18:25,420 --> 00:18:30,320 that probably has no actual education in teaching. 441 00:18:30,330 --> 00:18:32,810 Like we've gone to university and we know that they're reading 442 00:18:32,820 --> 00:18:35,240 is important because we got told for told it for three years. 443 00:18:35,250 --> 00:18:37,410 Like we know that's important. Like why you telling us that 444 00:18:37,810 --> 00:18:40,590 there's 12 hours of stuff to do in a day. 445 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:41,950 It's like what? We've got 12 hours. 446 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:45,280 Well, do it. I know it's mental and when you 447 00:18:45,290 --> 00:18:49,170 think about I know we're maths leads, so any maths leads 448 00:18:49,180 --> 00:18:51,760 listening as well. This might be controversial and 449 00:18:51,770 --> 00:18:53,940 I you know, but it it's what it is. 450 00:18:53,950 --> 00:18:57,260 I deliver maths and well, we deliver maths in our school to 451 00:18:57,270 --> 00:18:59,690 the absolute top standard based on what we're expected to do by 452 00:18:59,700 --> 00:19:01,400 the curriculum when our kids get everything they need. 453 00:19:01,410 --> 00:19:03,260 And we had a recent officer visit and we know it's good. 454 00:19:03,890 --> 00:19:08,680 However my personal opinion is there is a huge chunk of the 455 00:19:08,690 --> 00:19:11,580 curriculum, especially in upper key stage, two year five and six 456 00:19:11,730 --> 00:19:14,050 which is absolutely not necessary for children who 457 00:19:14,060 --> 00:19:15,760 attend to learn. Absolutely not. 458 00:19:15,870 --> 00:19:20,660 And if we really break it down, OK, who actually cares? 459 00:19:20,750 --> 00:19:23,690 Give a 10 year old can cross multiply 2 fractions. 460 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:27,550 Like like truly, truly who who cares? 461 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,730 Because if you carry on with which you all will if you carry 462 00:19:30,740 --> 00:19:33,470 on mass into secondary school, you can do that later if you 463 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:34,780 want to do that for whatever reason. 464 00:19:34,860 --> 00:19:37,270 And we can talk about how you know it might be used in certain 465 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:39,310 situations or not. But you know at the end of the 466 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:43,080 day, if as a primary school teacher my kids get half every 467 00:19:43,090 --> 00:19:46,170 year, six and they can't tell analogue clock, I would love to 468 00:19:46,180 --> 00:19:48,550 have the freedom to be able to completely drop that part of the 469 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:52,050 fraction section and do time and do a week exploring time with 470 00:19:52,060 --> 00:19:53,600 them. Because yeah, do you know what? 471 00:19:53,610 --> 00:19:55,820 I know that's more important for them and it winds me up. 472 00:19:56,230 --> 00:19:58,880 It's a good point. There's no there's there's a a 473 00:19:58,890 --> 00:20:01,780 layer of irony because I was about to say there's no 474 00:20:01,870 --> 00:20:04,480 priorities, right. It's just just do the whole 475 00:20:04,490 --> 00:20:07,610 curriculum. But then priorities do emerge in 476 00:20:07,620 --> 00:20:10,690 uppercase stage 2. Not for the right reason, you 477 00:20:10,700 --> 00:20:12,280 know. The priority should be what you 478 00:20:12,290 --> 00:20:13,540 just said. It should be what are the most 479 00:20:13,550 --> 00:20:15,980 important life skills. Let's make sure they're honed in 480 00:20:15,990 --> 00:20:18,860 on 1st at the bottom of the pile will do ratio. 481 00:20:18,930 --> 00:20:21,220 We'll do a bit of algebra. They can do that later and they 482 00:20:21,230 --> 00:20:22,990 don't need to do that. Now they can do that in year 483 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,710 seven like you know multiply fractions but what really 484 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:30,460 happens is what has the most marks in the sats that's the 485 00:20:30,470 --> 00:20:33,440 most important thing Now you know ohh every teacher is 486 00:20:33,450 --> 00:20:36,440 conditioned to think well actually you know we we need to 487 00:20:36,450 --> 00:20:39,020 teach them these certain things of arithmetic cause they come 488 00:20:39,030 --> 00:20:42,520 that comes up the most algebra I was only ever one or two marks a 489 00:20:42,530 --> 00:20:45,620 year would that we won't do that this year time there's only 490 00:20:45,630 --> 00:20:47,300 there's only ever one or two marks that you might get If 491 00:20:47,310 --> 00:20:49,740 you're unlucky there'll be a duration problem question in one 492 00:20:49,750 --> 00:20:53,030 of the papers we won't do that so hang on that's that's like 493 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:56,380 the most important life skill there but it's only one mark by 494 00:20:56,390 --> 00:20:58,540 fractions of amounts. There's like 5 or 6 questions on 495 00:20:58,550 --> 00:21:00,420 that and just get fractions in general. 496 00:21:00,430 --> 00:21:02,040 So we'll we'll do that. We'll do lots of that. 497 00:21:02,670 --> 00:21:04,220 And it's like, yeah, the priorities are kind of all 498 00:21:04,230 --> 00:21:05,620 wrong. If we're thinking about the 499 00:21:05,630 --> 00:21:08,200 purpose of school being to set kids up for their future and 500 00:21:08,210 --> 00:21:12,220 like, generally just being able to do life, the Sats don't 501 00:21:12,230 --> 00:21:14,080 really correspond with that. But we will talk about that. 502 00:21:14,090 --> 00:21:16,070 I know we're gonna have a proper conversation about Sats in the 503 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:17,260 future episode. So if you're into that sort of 504 00:21:17,270 --> 00:21:19,480 stuff and you want to hear a bit more about Sats, we're gonna get 505 00:21:19,490 --> 00:21:21,810 a really awesome guest on that, Won't say it right now, and 506 00:21:21,820 --> 00:21:24,510 we're going to talk a little bit more about Sats and other 507 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:27,070 struggles with school. Amazing, right? 508 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:28,600 Guys, Listen, that's a lovely intro. 509 00:21:28,610 --> 00:21:31,430 We kind of went off piece there, but I like those conversations 510 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:33,140 and hopefully you listeners do as well. 511 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:36,250 Guys, quick one from me. Hey, let's feeling poorly, OK, 512 00:21:36,260 --> 00:21:37,970 It's Sunday. We've left it quite late to this 513 00:21:37,980 --> 00:21:40,660 podcast, so you're getting one. That's the good news. 514 00:21:40,670 --> 00:21:43,510 You're getting a podcast. The bad news is Hayden's gonna 515 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:45,900 have to ad Lib the little intro now because we're not gonna edit 516 00:21:45,910 --> 00:21:47,190 this, we're just gonna put it out as it is. 517 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,090 So let's go to a little intro. Skit Hayden, over to you. 518 00:21:50,360 --> 00:21:52,270 Ohh, why did the jungle? Yeah, Jingle. 519 00:21:52,320 --> 00:22:00,810 I can think of the. Way you did the OK, but repeat, 520 00:22:00,820 --> 00:22:03,370 no, no, I'm doing it mate. You said I'm doing it. 521 00:22:03,380 --> 00:22:05,010 You've ruined. You've ruined my bit and now I 522 00:22:05,020 --> 00:22:08,150 can't edit that out. I'm fed up. 523 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,390 With this I I'm sorry. I'm stopping you. 524 00:22:11,460 --> 00:22:13,200 I'm stopping you. They're all gonna get to see 525 00:22:13,210 --> 00:22:14,960 what happens behind the scenes. I normally edit this out. 526 00:22:14,970 --> 00:22:16,570 I'm having one of my panic attacks. 527 00:22:17,180 --> 00:22:20,130 All right, I'm fed up with you interrupting me. 528 00:22:21,360 --> 00:22:23,100 I'm so sorry. I'm hating Hater. 529 00:22:23,110 --> 00:22:24,320 Please, can we? Yeah. 530 00:22:24,330 --> 00:22:26,560 Would you would you please? I'm sorry, Overlord, Sir. 531 00:22:26,870 --> 00:22:29,000 Well, that'll be no. Can you please edit this part 532 00:22:29,010 --> 00:22:31,400 out so that no one knows that the real dynamic between us is 533 00:22:31,410 --> 00:22:33,440 that you are absolutely in charge of me and intimidating 534 00:22:33,450 --> 00:22:35,340 every every. Time and I get you to pretend to 535 00:22:35,350 --> 00:22:37,180 be the boss. Yeah, is it can? 536 00:22:37,190 --> 00:22:38,700 I will let it out. All right. 537 00:22:38,710 --> 00:22:39,970 You got one more warning or you're? 538 00:22:39,980 --> 00:22:41,900 Out. I'm going to be the boss when I 539 00:22:41,910 --> 00:22:45,230 come back. I meant to silence. 540 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:48,270 Imagine would make everyone sit there for one minute. 541 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:49,970 Complete silence. Making it through this. 542 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:51,470 Yeah. Anyway, moving on. 543 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,760 So go on, tell. Ohh, I can go. 544 00:22:54,770 --> 00:22:57,010 Thank you. Yeah, so my skits over. 545 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:01,180 We had a little Instagram poll, a quick dip for our Instagram. 546 00:23:01,190 --> 00:23:02,570 We don't have a sponsor on this podcast. 547 00:23:02,620 --> 00:23:05,410 So I always say this. Our sponsor is ourselves. 548 00:23:05,420 --> 00:23:06,110 No, No, no. No. 549 00:23:06,120 --> 00:23:06,670 No. No. 550 00:23:06,740 --> 00:23:09,910 No sponsor is ourselves. Is it OK? 551 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:15,010 Yeah, someone else. Yeah, he's got, he's got a lot 552 00:23:15,020 --> 00:23:16,990 of free airtime. If anyone wants to go back to 553 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,430 previous ones who has very grateful for you, by the way, 554 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:22,420 you know you are. Anyway, we don't have a sponsor 555 00:23:22,430 --> 00:23:25,410 on this podcast, so can you go and follow us on Instagram at 556 00:23:25,420 --> 00:23:28,650 teacher repeat podcast? I post memes, I post funnies, I 557 00:23:28,660 --> 00:23:32,020 post stories where you can do a poll and it links in exactly to 558 00:23:32,030 --> 00:23:33,750 this episode today. So we're going to talk all about 559 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:34,990 settings. Sorry, one second. 560 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,150 Hello, James. No, he's not. 561 00:23:37,700 --> 00:23:39,790 Cancel the payment. He's not mentioned the financial 562 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,270 planning in this episode. Don't worry about it, mate. 563 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:43,430 No. So I'll speak to you soon. 564 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:44,430 Speak to you soon. Sorry, Bill. 565 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:49,710 We'll edit that out. So it's weird, this episode 566 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:53,430 where we're not editing. That's way more than ever, no. 567 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:55,670 Anyway, this episode we're talking all about setting. 568 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:59,610 Now this is a hot topic. I would say it was a hot topic 569 00:23:59,660 --> 00:24:02,780 about eight years ago. It feels like in general the 570 00:24:02,790 --> 00:24:06,310 profession is kind of agreed where where this should go, but 571 00:24:06,360 --> 00:24:09,170 it's almost like a silent agreement about setting in 572 00:24:09,180 --> 00:24:12,850 schools based on ability. Now in secondary school, it is 573 00:24:12,860 --> 00:24:16,270 highly, highly, highly likely if you walk into one that they are 574 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,110 being set based on ability. And I think the older children 575 00:24:19,120 --> 00:24:22,460 get, the more we kind of accept that where whatever routes 576 00:24:22,470 --> 00:24:24,590 they're taking through their education, there is a need to 577 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:29,900 set to keep them going through education until 16/17/18 and it 578 00:24:29,910 --> 00:24:34,030 being suitable for them. However, in primary school I I'd 579 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,330 say about 8 to 10 years ago probably when we were starting 580 00:24:36,340 --> 00:24:39,690 our teaching to be fair, there was a huge shift in the 581 00:24:39,700 --> 00:24:43,930 narrative as to whether or not we should be setting children in 582 00:24:43,940 --> 00:24:46,070 primary school based on their ability. 583 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:48,410 Now, hey there, before we get into all of the research and 584 00:24:48,420 --> 00:24:52,350 have our debate, yeah, I did a quick Instagram poll to our 585 00:24:52,360 --> 00:24:56,460 listeners asking them do they set OK and there were four 586 00:24:56,470 --> 00:24:58,640 options. I asked them if you work in a 587 00:24:58,650 --> 00:25:00,040 primary schools, this is all primary school. 588 00:25:00,740 --> 00:25:02,510 Do you set for maths and English? 589 00:25:02,740 --> 00:25:06,450 Do you set just for maths? Do you set just for English or 590 00:25:06,460 --> 00:25:09,040 do you not set at all? What I want you to do Hayden, is 591 00:25:09,050 --> 00:25:11,150 just reason and justify what you think. 592 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:12,950 The national outlook is based on our little poll. 593 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:14,390 So what would you go for? What would you? 594 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:15,990 Say is the. I'm guessing the percentages, 595 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:16,610 sort of. Thing, Yeah. 596 00:25:16,620 --> 00:25:18,950 What do you think the real outlook is when we look at now 597 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,610 not? I I reckon, I reckon more than 598 00:25:21,620 --> 00:25:25,120 50% have said yes for maths I reckon. 599 00:25:25,130 --> 00:25:29,590 I reckon that's the highest one personally, and I reckon a lot 600 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:31,660 of people still set for English, but I think it's lower. 601 00:25:32,130 --> 00:25:34,030 I think it's lower. I reckon it's lower than 50%. 602 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:35,770 That's kind of go that probably encompasses. 603 00:25:35,780 --> 00:25:36,460 Everything. What about? 604 00:25:36,470 --> 00:25:37,910 What about people who don't set at all? 605 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:44,760 Um, I think less than less than 50I reckon 40 to 50%. 606 00:25:45,030 --> 00:25:46,600 OK. These these do have to add up to 607 00:25:46,610 --> 00:25:50,290 100 haters. Wait ohh yeah. 608 00:25:50,300 --> 00:25:51,680 He's only voting for one. Aren't they? 609 00:25:51,690 --> 00:25:54,660 Right, Yeah. Yeah, so either you can't set 610 00:25:54,670 --> 00:25:57,340 for maths and English and set for either maths or English. 611 00:25:57,390 --> 00:25:59,790 So you've got to just choose. One's gonna take one more time 612 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,580 because obviously. It's still work. 613 00:26:02,590 --> 00:26:07,250 I said less than 5050. It could be 10, I think More, I 614 00:26:07,260 --> 00:26:13,320 think 5050 to 60%, Fifty to 50 to 60, I reckon set for just a 615 00:26:13,330 --> 00:26:14,420 mass. OK. 616 00:26:14,430 --> 00:26:15,900 And how much set? Not at all. 617 00:26:16,530 --> 00:26:21,160 And not at all. I reckon 3030% OK, what about 618 00:26:21,170 --> 00:26:23,340 just English ones? Just English, Whatever. 619 00:26:23,350 --> 00:26:24,580 The rest is divided between the two. 620 00:26:26,010 --> 00:26:28,490 You think about thank you for your fantastic input Hayden. 621 00:26:28,500 --> 00:26:31,060 Here are the options. Does your school set based on 622 00:26:31,070 --> 00:26:35,310 ability? 56% do not set at all. 623 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:42,840 Ah, that's more than I thought. 22% set just for Maths, 19% set 624 00:26:42,850 --> 00:26:48,420 for Maths and for English and only 3% set just for English. 625 00:26:48,510 --> 00:26:51,150 That's interesting. So it tends to be then based on 626 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,240 that poll that you you have a set or you don't. 627 00:26:53,290 --> 00:26:55,080 It's kind of like you set for everything or not. 628 00:26:55,370 --> 00:26:58,620 Yeah, yeah, well not well, just for maths was the 2nd, so they 629 00:26:58,630 --> 00:27:00,580 don't set for English. Yeah, that was quite close, 630 00:27:00,590 --> 00:27:01,810 wasn't it? It was quite close to. 631 00:27:01,890 --> 00:27:06,920 So 56 I'd say sit here. 78% of people don't set for English, 632 00:27:07,130 --> 00:27:08,560 that's what the results of this is. 633 00:27:08,970 --> 00:27:12,040 And the results for this as well is for in terms of maths. 634 00:27:12,570 --> 00:27:16,390 Is 58% don't set for maths, so it's much more likely that 635 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:17,370 people. Set for us. 636 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:21,200 Yeah, that's interesting. So what do you think about that? 637 00:27:21,210 --> 00:27:23,580 What are your initial thoughts, Tatum? 638 00:27:23,590 --> 00:27:28,270 Because OK, we've worked well. I've worked in settings where 639 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:30,570 I've done all of the different ways you could possibly do 640 00:27:30,580 --> 00:27:32,550 stuff. I've worked, yeah, where you set 641 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:34,420 for mass. I've worked in higher ability 642 00:27:34,430 --> 00:27:36,590 mouse, lower ability mass. I've worked in mixed ability 643 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:38,670 maths. I've worked in set English, low 644 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,250 ability English, high ability English, and I've worked in mix. 645 00:27:41,260 --> 00:27:42,640 So there's not one I haven't done. 646 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:44,150 Yeah. So I'm going to take a step back 647 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,150 here. What's what's your opinion on 648 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,590 the question? Should we set from ability when 649 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,050 it comes to maths and English in a primary? 650 00:27:52,060 --> 00:27:53,590 School. I'm going to separate it just 651 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,330 from a minute to maths for a SEC anymore because I I do think 652 00:27:56,340 --> 00:27:59,260 maths and English are very different and we'll get on to 653 00:27:59,270 --> 00:28:01,580 that as to why. But just going back in time a 654 00:28:01,590 --> 00:28:03,820 bit when when we started our careers and obviously like you 655 00:28:03,830 --> 00:28:05,760 said, it was quite a hot topic. And it definitely was back then 656 00:28:05,770 --> 00:28:08,850 because I think it was very common to to set and people were 657 00:28:08,860 --> 00:28:10,410 starting to be like hey actually we shouldn't do this. 658 00:28:10,420 --> 00:28:12,670 And there's loads of research and I remember being really, 659 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:17,100 really pro all of the research what it was saying was not 660 00:28:17,110 --> 00:28:19,600 setting and and I remember being the master in our in a school we 661 00:28:19,610 --> 00:28:23,570 worked in at the time and I was very keen to try and adhere to 662 00:28:23,580 --> 00:28:26,320 this sort of guidance and be like no, actually let's stop 663 00:28:26,330 --> 00:28:29,060 because we had like 6 way sets. Do you remember in that there's 664 00:28:29,070 --> 00:28:32,700 a big school, Um, I was like, no, this is what the research 665 00:28:32,710 --> 00:28:35,120 says. So I was very pro mixed ability. 666 00:28:35,430 --> 00:28:39,140 But over the years through experience I have completely 667 00:28:39,150 --> 00:28:42,830 flipped the other way. I'm not completely, there's a 668 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,730 bit of a middle ground, but I'm I'm way more pro setting now 669 00:28:45,740 --> 00:28:48,970 than I am. Mixed ability in maths and not 670 00:28:48,980 --> 00:28:52,370 quite the same in English. Uh, and jump to dive into the 671 00:28:52,380 --> 00:28:53,930 reasons now. Or do we want to say that? 672 00:28:54,260 --> 00:28:55,510 No, it's it's interesting. Yeah. 673 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,450 Because let's let's just for one second think about it because I 674 00:28:58,460 --> 00:29:01,260 think where I'm going to play this now, I'm going to play it 675 00:29:01,270 --> 00:29:04,290 from the other role of really adhering to the research because 676 00:29:04,300 --> 00:29:07,330 I think it's important as educators to do both. 677 00:29:07,340 --> 00:29:11,040 I think it's really important as educators to read and keep up 678 00:29:11,050 --> 00:29:14,630 with research and understand that it's gone for a scientific 679 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:15,710 method. You know we can't. 680 00:29:15,780 --> 00:29:18,410 You can't actually. You know, if it's based on a lot 681 00:29:18,420 --> 00:29:20,810 of research that's done well, it's hard to argue against 682 00:29:20,820 --> 00:29:23,340 research. However, I do believe that it's 683 00:29:23,350 --> 00:29:27,080 a very unique job in that, you know, you live it, you live and 684 00:29:27,090 --> 00:29:29,340 breathe it every single day. So you're gonna form your own 685 00:29:29,350 --> 00:29:30,920 opinion as well. So I think it's important to do 686 00:29:30,930 --> 00:29:32,700 both. Maybe I'll learn more towards 687 00:29:32,710 --> 00:29:35,460 the objective and you can learn more towards the experience. 688 00:29:35,750 --> 00:29:38,030 Sure. So you said there's a difference 689 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:40,540 between when it comes to maths and English. 690 00:29:40,770 --> 00:29:44,380 So before I really want you to set out that store a little bit 691 00:29:44,390 --> 00:29:47,730 and then we can maybe talk about why you think it's beneficial in 692 00:29:47,740 --> 00:29:50,020 those contexts. So I assume that you're saying 693 00:29:50,030 --> 00:29:52,400 you think it's more beneficial in maths or it's more suited to 694 00:29:52,410 --> 00:29:53,430 maths. I think it. 695 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:55,850 Is. I think it is more beneficial in 696 00:29:55,860 --> 00:30:00,440 maths to set by ability. I think generally I'll go into 697 00:30:00,450 --> 00:30:03,450 why, but with a bit of pretence of what I think the research is. 698 00:30:03,460 --> 00:30:06,220 Now, I haven't actually seen the research in many years, so I am 699 00:30:06,230 --> 00:30:08,170 very much just going off of what I think it will say and you 700 00:30:08,180 --> 00:30:10,030 might be able to enlighten me. With yeah, I've had a quick 701 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:11,440 look. So I've got some, I've got them, 702 00:30:11,450 --> 00:30:14,380 you know, overarching results of most of the research here so I 703 00:30:14,390 --> 00:30:17,200 can twinkle in as we go. So in my understanding, the 704 00:30:17,210 --> 00:30:20,080 general research back when I was looking into it was that setting 705 00:30:20,090 --> 00:30:23,420 was worse for the children because of the like how it 706 00:30:23,430 --> 00:30:26,070 affected them mentally, right? They, you know, children aren't 707 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,160 stupid enough to know that, to not know what set they're in. 708 00:30:29,230 --> 00:30:30,870 Like they're very quickly will work out. 709 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,790 Ohh, I mean the bottom set mass, that means I'm rubbish at maths 710 00:30:33,900 --> 00:30:36,450 and therefore I'm not really gonna bother with it cause I 711 00:30:36,460 --> 00:30:38,490 think I'm terrible. And that to me was kind of the 712 00:30:38,500 --> 00:30:40,510 underpinning idea of the research, which was, which was 713 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:42,690 that let's stop doing that to kids because we're putting a 714 00:30:42,700 --> 00:30:45,550 ceiling on them straight away. We're telling them in the bottom 715 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:47,380 set they're never actually going to achieve more than that. 716 00:30:47,390 --> 00:30:48,660 We're already telling them in that box. 717 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,180 And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely. 718 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:56,790 But then through experience, I think math is so nuanced, like 719 00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:58,360 with, you know, even just talking about the, the 720 00:30:58,370 --> 00:31:00,640 foundational stuff we talked about earlier, right, Kids that 721 00:31:00,650 --> 00:31:02,950 can double, Kids that can't, kids that can read the time, 722 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,750 kids that can't. I think maths is so underpinned 723 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:09,530 by like this massive, massive massive variety of skills that 724 00:31:09,540 --> 00:31:12,790 totally sets kids apart in terms of their ability to like, reason 725 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,050 and problem solve with the repetitive skills they might may 726 00:31:15,060 --> 00:31:20,060 or may not have that I think in a mixed ability class I I think 727 00:31:20,070 --> 00:31:24,100 personally I think the average teacher is not able in a class 728 00:31:24,110 --> 00:31:28,220 of 32 completely mixed kids to meet the needs of those children 729 00:31:28,230 --> 00:31:31,560 sufficiently enough. I think they'll meet the needs 730 00:31:31,570 --> 00:31:34,400 of a group of children in that class, but I but I think that 731 00:31:34,410 --> 00:31:37,710 will often either skim off the the top ability children who 732 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:41,210 will absolutely not be getting a sufficient level of like 733 00:31:41,220 --> 00:31:43,840 planning and teaching and lessons and tasks, or it will be 734 00:31:43,850 --> 00:31:45,930 the other end. It will be the lowest children I 735 00:31:45,940 --> 00:31:47,840 think is quite common. OK. 736 00:31:47,900 --> 00:31:50,280 So I'm going to come in with basically a part of the research 737 00:31:50,290 --> 00:31:52,000 here. The overwhelming results of the 738 00:31:52,010 --> 00:31:54,210 research would be interesting to come off the back of what you've 739 00:31:54,220 --> 00:31:59,450 just said is that when it comes to setting, OK, when you look at 740 00:31:59,460 --> 00:32:03,130 the outcomes, firstly it's a marginal difference 741 00:32:03,140 --> 00:32:05,220 entertainment. So you know that this difference 742 00:32:05,230 --> 00:32:07,560 is is small, it's not substantial, it's not moderate, 743 00:32:07,570 --> 00:32:09,920 it is marginal. So you know it has a marginal 744 00:32:09,930 --> 00:32:12,520 difference on attainment. But this is the way it goes. 745 00:32:12,530 --> 00:32:16,460 If you're a higher ability child, working in a mixed 746 00:32:16,470 --> 00:32:20,030 setting is slightly worse for your attainment. 747 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,390 So when you set the higher ability children tend to do 748 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:24,110 better. Yeah, yeah. 749 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:28,250 When you, when you set for lower ability children in mixed 750 00:32:28,260 --> 00:32:30,370 ability, it tends to be better for them. 751 00:32:30,420 --> 00:32:33,850 So when you set, it tends to have a marginal negative impact 752 00:32:33,860 --> 00:32:37,540 on your lower just widens the just widens, it widens the gap 753 00:32:37,550 --> 00:32:39,290 when you set. And that is the huge argument 754 00:32:39,300 --> 00:32:41,010 against doing it. Yeah. 755 00:32:41,020 --> 00:32:43,470 How would you reply to that if someone said, look, this is the 756 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:47,450 research, whether it's marginal or not, it seems like, OK, you 757 00:32:47,460 --> 00:32:49,710 seem to think that we could avoid the social stigma and 758 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:51,650 we'll talk about that in a second, but let's focus on the 759 00:32:51,660 --> 00:32:53,200 attainment. How would you come back to 760 00:32:53,210 --> 00:32:55,480 someone who says, well, look, the research says it it why does 761 00:32:55,490 --> 00:32:58,800 the attainment gap that's bad? OK, so I've got 2 two things to 762 00:32:58,810 --> 00:33:01,030 say about this then. So I firstly, I don't disagree 763 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,180 with the research. I think that's obviously like, 764 00:33:03,390 --> 00:33:05,260 who am I to be? Like, no, that's wrong. 765 00:33:05,330 --> 00:33:07,960 They happened to research the wrong group of children. 766 00:33:07,970 --> 00:33:09,200 No, of course that's clearly happening. 767 00:33:09,210 --> 00:33:11,700 And I think it actually makes sense that obviously if you if 768 00:33:11,710 --> 00:33:14,440 you have a mixed ability class, it just squashes the ends in 769 00:33:14,550 --> 00:33:16,260 because we're not superhuman. So. 770 00:33:16,270 --> 00:33:19,660 So my first point is, is about that in terms of, I think when 771 00:33:19,670 --> 00:33:22,150 it comes to educational research, generally I agree with 772 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:26,230 it, but sometimes there's a lot of idealism, which it's like the 773 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,050 whole Instagram versus reality situation for me. 774 00:33:29,100 --> 00:33:32,030 I do think sometimes it's like cool, that's great research, but 775 00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:36,460 it does kind of rely on teachers doing an unholy amount of work 776 00:33:37,310 --> 00:33:39,580 to be able to attain that. Now if you're lucky enough to be 777 00:33:39,590 --> 00:33:42,640 in in like a a bigger school, you might be able to shout that 778 00:33:42,650 --> 00:33:45,230 planning. But if you're in let's say A1 779 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:47,900 form or two form and it's suddenly like, OK, you've got 780 00:33:47,910 --> 00:33:50,960 you've got like 6 sort of levels of differentiation you need to 781 00:33:50,970 --> 00:33:53,240 consider in this class because you just happened to potluck. 782 00:33:53,310 --> 00:33:55,900 You just happen to have children that are working way below the 783 00:33:55,910 --> 00:33:57,990 the the key stage. You've got children that sort of 784 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,100 working towards children that are kind of nearing expected. 785 00:34:00,110 --> 00:34:02,660 You got children expected, children solid expected and 786 00:34:02,670 --> 00:34:06,320 you've just got to teach a lesson to them because mixed 787 00:34:06,330 --> 00:34:07,790 ability is better. So off you go. 788 00:34:08,730 --> 00:34:12,040 It's like, well, for that to be a good standard in my opinion, 789 00:34:12,110 --> 00:34:15,920 would require a hell of a lot of work and understanding to be 790 00:34:15,929 --> 00:34:18,580 able to do so, and I don't think it's realistic to to be able to 791 00:34:18,590 --> 00:34:22,030 maintain that level of work. So why is it different in sets? 792 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:23,320 Yeah, why is it different in sets? 793 00:34:23,330 --> 00:34:25,360 Let's carry on. Now, why do you find that we're 794 00:34:25,370 --> 00:34:25,889 setting? Then? 795 00:34:25,900 --> 00:34:30,040 That's not a problem. So in that huge scope of 796 00:34:30,050 --> 00:34:33,080 children going from your maybe like a two years behind the 797 00:34:33,090 --> 00:34:35,139 curriculum to someone that's working at really high grade 798 00:34:35,150 --> 00:34:38,920 depth is now is now squished into OK, you've actually just 799 00:34:38,929 --> 00:34:42,600 got the children now are floating around expected that 800 00:34:42,610 --> 00:34:44,520 you know that that yeah the difference the difference 801 00:34:44,530 --> 00:34:46,420 between the lowest ability and high quality child in your class 802 00:34:46,429 --> 00:34:49,330 is much closer. So you can really hone in on a 803 00:34:49,340 --> 00:34:53,889 lesson that will cater to them all much more much will probably 804 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:55,210 cater to them all than it would do. 805 00:34:55,260 --> 00:34:59,700 Can we be Can I dive in a bit more to that So with with maths 806 00:34:59,710 --> 00:35:03,180 I this is something I found in the past when I when I'm because 807 00:35:03,190 --> 00:35:05,060 I teach at the minute in terms of a bit mixed. 808 00:35:05,110 --> 00:35:08,020 I we teach in a setting system and I think that has lots of 809 00:35:08,030 --> 00:35:11,840 pros but one thing for sure I found is that you are kind of 810 00:35:11,850 --> 00:35:15,110 leaning into that shoehorning effect of what you've just said 811 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:17,800 there in terms of OK well we've set now so I've got this group 812 00:35:17,810 --> 00:35:20,860 of children and they're kind of in this slice of the ability 813 00:35:20,870 --> 00:35:23,650 spectrum and that means that OK I'm going to now plan my 814 00:35:23,660 --> 00:35:26,250 fraction unit and I know they're having this splice and wait a 815 00:35:26,260 --> 00:35:28,740 minute it just so happens that these exact same children are in 816 00:35:28,750 --> 00:35:31,270 this exact same splice when it comes to you and the four 817 00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:35,100 operations and how how strange when it's time as well and I 818 00:35:35,110 --> 00:35:38,510 think with maths it's it and and obviously English but in general 819 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,610 it's it's actually you know that's not how it really works 820 00:35:41,620 --> 00:35:44,550 is it Even when you set you know from from strand to strand 821 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,990 you're gonna have huge variances in a who in your set can do 822 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:49,270 certain things and. B. 823 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:51,600 The breadth of that. So do you not think we kind of 824 00:35:51,610 --> 00:35:53,780 face those problems anyway when it comes to setting? 825 00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:56,950 Well, not massively, because I think, let's just take your 826 00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,950 analogy there of and it's quite a common thing, isn't it, that 827 00:36:00,090 --> 00:36:03,300 children could be really able in shape and space, but actually 828 00:36:03,310 --> 00:36:05,100 not so much in the four operations. 829 00:36:05,110 --> 00:36:06,810 And that's. And we often set children based 830 00:36:06,820 --> 00:36:08,350 on their arithmetic understanding, right. 831 00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:10,930 So it's a bit like that's unfair because some of those children 832 00:36:10,940 --> 00:36:12,930 that greater depth set actually aren't as good as shape and 833 00:36:12,940 --> 00:36:14,970 space as those children you just put in that lower set. 834 00:36:15,270 --> 00:36:17,520 But I don't necessarily think that's a massive problem because 835 00:36:17,530 --> 00:36:20,240 I think if they're in a set, the point is the teacher, a good 836 00:36:20,250 --> 00:36:22,080 teacher, will be reacting to their needs anyway. 837 00:36:22,130 --> 00:36:25,340 So who cares if the lower set, as we caught, you know as 838 00:36:25,350 --> 00:36:28,170 someone might call them, who cares if they're doing shape and 839 00:36:28,180 --> 00:36:30,890 space lessons at the same level as the other group. 840 00:36:30,970 --> 00:36:33,620 They don't have to just do lower stuff because they're lower. 841 00:36:33,720 --> 00:36:35,700 That's when it goes wrong. I think that's when I think it's 842 00:36:35,710 --> 00:36:39,040 bad, which is that the ceiling is put on from day one of Nope, 843 00:36:39,050 --> 00:36:41,320 those children liabilities. So don't even give them the 844 00:36:41,330 --> 00:36:43,560 chance now in any area of maths to excel. 845 00:36:43,630 --> 00:36:45,020 It's no, you still have to adapt to them. 846 00:36:45,030 --> 00:36:47,890 It's just that you might find in some areas they're they're 847 00:36:47,900 --> 00:36:50,460 really weak and you have to go right back for that set. 848 00:36:50,470 --> 00:36:52,910 And luckily you can now just hone in on that skill, because 849 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,230 you've got no one in your set that is actually working higher 850 00:36:55,240 --> 00:36:57,800 than that level. But then when it comes to shape 851 00:36:57,950 --> 00:37:00,460 or, you know, just jump geometry in general, actually they're 852 00:37:00,470 --> 00:37:02,480 just working at curriculum standard and as a teacher you 853 00:37:02,490 --> 00:37:04,600 need to be able to adapt your lessons to realise that they're 854 00:37:04,610 --> 00:37:08,170 working at that level. So do you think that adapting to 855 00:37:08,180 --> 00:37:11,940 your children in that way, you're just making your life 856 00:37:11,950 --> 00:37:14,230 harder by making by by going into sets? 857 00:37:14,240 --> 00:37:17,110 Because as soon if you're in mixed ability, you're going to 858 00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:18,870 plan for that anyway. So what you're essentially 859 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,060 saying is you should plan for them to not have a ceiling and 860 00:37:21,070 --> 00:37:23,410 be able to do anything, because we don't wanna put a ceiling on 861 00:37:23,420 --> 00:37:25,770 them, but also we put them into sets. 862 00:37:25,940 --> 00:37:28,720 So why not just have them in mixed ability and then take that 863 00:37:28,730 --> 00:37:31,510 sealing off anyway? Just because I think it is just 864 00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:33,570 more to do. I think if you had that same 865 00:37:33,580 --> 00:37:35,850 analogy with the shape and space, if you had a mixed 866 00:37:35,860 --> 00:37:38,960 ability class, and again the same, you know, same thing with 867 00:37:38,970 --> 00:37:42,150 the arithmetic, they're going to be lessons where perhaps your 868 00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:43,820 children need like maybe like 5 or 6. 869 00:37:43,830 --> 00:37:47,550 Your children in your class need to be working at a considerably 870 00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:50,830 lower level than others, and they need your attention, and 871 00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:54,400 it's way hard inside, but they're all much closer 872 00:37:54,410 --> 00:37:56,350 together, so you can take the whole class on that journey 873 00:37:56,630 --> 00:37:58,640 without. Without worrying, I suppose, 874 00:37:58,950 --> 00:38:00,420 yeah. I suppose what I'm saying is 875 00:38:00,470 --> 00:38:03,540 sometimes the tops in that lower set that you've predetermined 876 00:38:03,770 --> 00:38:06,450 are just you just, you just said there at the level of the great 877 00:38:06,460 --> 00:38:09,200 depth group. So that's the same breakfast, 878 00:38:09,210 --> 00:38:10,980 the mixed ability. You've still got the same 879 00:38:10,990 --> 00:38:12,340 planning? Yeah, absolutely right. 880 00:38:12,350 --> 00:38:14,100 It's just way less likely in my opinion. 881 00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:16,270 It's just more manageable that that's all it is, you know, I'm 882 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:17,680 not saying it doesn't happen anymore. 883 00:38:17,750 --> 00:38:20,990 I'm just saying that going from a scope this big everyday to a 884 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,250 scope this big every day with the maybe the odd objective 885 00:38:24,260 --> 00:38:26,240 where when your kid goes oh you're actually you're you're 886 00:38:26,250 --> 00:38:28,860 actually at that level and you know we need to have a few 887 00:38:28,870 --> 00:38:30,900 things in the in the bag ready to give you. 888 00:38:31,030 --> 00:38:32,970 I just think it's more manageable that's all and I 889 00:38:32,980 --> 00:38:34,040 think you can get better outcomes. 890 00:38:34,050 --> 00:38:36,080 But going back to your original question, cause there was an 891 00:38:36,090 --> 00:38:40,010 overarching point that I was trying to get to, which is that 892 00:38:40,020 --> 00:38:41,790 one the research is really interesting, she said. 893 00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:44,270 It kind of squashes the tops in and they don't make as much 894 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,730 progress that the higher ability children, but equally it hinders 895 00:38:47,740 --> 00:38:50,150 the sorry, it brings up the lower ability children being in 896 00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:51,500 a mixed ability set and I imagine. 897 00:38:51,510 --> 00:38:52,730 That that's what I make, by the way. 898 00:38:52,740 --> 00:38:54,610 That's what I mean by the way, when I'm making these arguments 899 00:38:54,620 --> 00:38:58,390 to you now is, you know, we will help shift those children up 900 00:38:58,400 --> 00:38:59,710 more if they're with the other group. 901 00:38:59,720 --> 00:39:01,130 Like, I'm looking at the lower end here. 902 00:39:01,140 --> 00:39:02,440 Yeah. So that is kind of what I'm 903 00:39:02,450 --> 00:39:05,540 hinting at, yeah. So my my actual, the start of 904 00:39:05,550 --> 00:39:07,510 this conversation. I said I'm not completely in 905 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:10,410 favour of setting because I've kind of in my opinion kind of 906 00:39:10,420 --> 00:39:11,720 middle ground. I think you have to because 907 00:39:11,730 --> 00:39:15,580 we've we've sort of applied this process at our school a bit and 908 00:39:15,590 --> 00:39:19,660 my opinion is that those those really high ability children, I 909 00:39:19,670 --> 00:39:22,900 I actually think it's beneficial for them to come out and and go 910 00:39:22,910 --> 00:39:27,020 and work at a higher faster pace working on harder stuff and you 911 00:39:27,030 --> 00:39:28,840 know providing with that progress they make that they're 912 00:39:28,850 --> 00:39:30,420 now missing for being in a mixed ability set. 913 00:39:30,470 --> 00:39:34,180 But what I don't think we should do is do the same thing to the 914 00:39:34,190 --> 00:39:37,860 lowest children because I think it's it's inverted in terms of 915 00:39:37,870 --> 00:39:39,560 the psychological effect it has on children. 916 00:39:39,710 --> 00:39:42,500 The point is with the lower ability children finding out 917 00:39:42,510 --> 00:39:45,790 you're rubbish at something is really bad and then you don't 918 00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:47,240 want to do it and you make less progress. 919 00:39:47,290 --> 00:39:49,460 Finding out your greatest something for you on a personal 920 00:39:49,470 --> 00:39:52,320 level doesn't make you then like worse at that thing. 921 00:39:52,330 --> 00:39:55,010 Like I think that's OK. But with the lower ability 922 00:39:55,020 --> 00:39:59,050 children, it's like I think as much as possible we should be 923 00:39:59,100 --> 00:40:03,350 mixing like 66% of the cohort I think of your top third going 924 00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:05,740 out. Or even you know what it depends 925 00:40:05,750 --> 00:40:08,800 on you know what size to be fair you could have like 300 kids in 926 00:40:08,810 --> 00:40:11,100 the in the year group obviously doesn't happen but in that case 927 00:40:11,110 --> 00:40:14,380 you might you might only take out the top 5% because you got a 928 00:40:14,390 --> 00:40:17,320 much bigger cohort. But yeah, I think as as where 929 00:40:17,330 --> 00:40:21,560 possible we should be utilising the benefits of mixed ability on 930 00:40:21,570 --> 00:40:26,470 their mindset, but trying to be rooted in reality a bit more in 931 00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:31,020 that it is just unmanageable to plan really top tier lessons to 932 00:40:31,030 --> 00:40:33,850 a massive scope of children. Let's just let's just half that 933 00:40:33,860 --> 00:40:36,180 scope a bit by taking the kind of expected and lower ability 934 00:40:36,190 --> 00:40:39,680 children put them together. So, OK, in that case then let's 935 00:40:39,690 --> 00:40:43,130 let's like flip the flip the thing to English because we kind 936 00:40:43,140 --> 00:40:45,940 of having a massive mindset for now and I'm going to kind of 937 00:40:45,950 --> 00:40:47,640 back you up here. I want to extrapolate on this 938 00:40:47,650 --> 00:40:50,720 because it it is, I don't think anyone, unless you've 939 00:40:50,730 --> 00:40:54,670 experienced trying to do it teaching mixed ability English 940 00:40:54,720 --> 00:40:59,070 with a group of children who cannot read in your class and a 941 00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:01,670 group of children who are reading, you know, the works of 942 00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:07,270 Jane Eyre and they're like 10. That that is, to me, crazy. 943 00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:10,890 And I still have never heard anyone really properly explained 944 00:41:10,900 --> 00:41:13,190 because you're exactly right. We we've had spelling training 945 00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:15,060 lately. We've had loads of training in 946 00:41:15,070 --> 00:41:16,510 the past. Anyone who's a teacher, worked 947 00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:19,230 in education, will have training sometimes and you'll think that 948 00:41:19,240 --> 00:41:22,190 sounds great on paper. But can you answer my 4 949 00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:24,730 questions about how in this exact situation, which I'm in 950 00:41:24,740 --> 00:41:26,940 right now in a class, how this would remotely help? 951 00:41:27,010 --> 00:41:29,300 And they honestly never really have an answer. 952 00:41:29,310 --> 00:41:32,060 So my big question with whole class reading, for example, I 953 00:41:32,070 --> 00:41:34,410 think it's a fantastic approach. It's something I would 954 00:41:34,510 --> 00:41:37,130 absolutely say to schools they should implement when it comes 955 00:41:37,140 --> 00:41:38,540 to English and it should be mixed ability. 956 00:41:38,590 --> 00:41:40,660 And again, on paper, it's brilliant and I'm the advocate 957 00:41:40,670 --> 00:41:42,620 for that, right? But then I just, I think to 958 00:41:42,630 --> 00:41:46,500 myself, OK, well, what what is the answer then to the four kids 959 00:41:46,510 --> 00:41:48,460 who can't decode and write their own name yet? 960 00:41:48,530 --> 00:41:50,880 Like, how on earth are they gonna follow along with Michael 961 00:41:50,890 --> 00:41:53,240 Morpurgo? But so where do you sit when it 962 00:41:53,250 --> 00:41:54,560 comes to like English with reading? 963 00:41:54,770 --> 00:41:56,960 I think there's still a lot of what we said, what I said about 964 00:41:56,970 --> 00:41:58,510 maths. I think it's still applicable in 965 00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:00,730 in a way. I just think with English in 966 00:42:00,740 --> 00:42:03,200 general it's easier to have passive outcomes. 967 00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:08,110 I think it's easier to teach a mixed ability class with like in 968 00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:11,980 reality without having to plan basically a bunch of different 969 00:42:11,990 --> 00:42:13,840 objectives which which might actually end up happening 970 00:42:13,850 --> 00:42:16,780 sometimes in maths because they're so far apart that they 971 00:42:16,790 --> 00:42:18,990 can't even do the objective without the three things that 972 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:20,730 come before it. Whereas if English, you know 973 00:42:20,740 --> 00:42:24,250 think about writing, I think you can generally give and any group 974 00:42:24,260 --> 00:42:27,870 of children the same task and the differentiators by outcome. 975 00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:31,320 You know I'm just not expecting as much from those children and 976 00:42:31,330 --> 00:42:34,920 that's OK you know you you you can you can hone in on on 977 00:42:34,930 --> 00:42:38,000 certain it's easier in a in a English class I think to hone in 978 00:42:38,010 --> 00:42:41,200 on a range of skills and just not expect some children to be 979 00:42:41,210 --> 00:42:43,450 working at the level that other children are. 980 00:42:43,490 --> 00:42:48,030 And I think that's OK. OK, yeah, go on, you, you're 981 00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:49,200 gonna say to me? No, no, no, it's fine. 982 00:42:49,210 --> 00:42:51,150 I'm just, I'm just trying to get to the bottom of what we're 983 00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:53,120 thinking here because I I suppose, OK. 984 00:42:53,170 --> 00:42:56,060 So in general, we've talked about idealism versus realism 985 00:42:56,070 --> 00:42:59,620 and this idea that, you know, obviously, I completely agree 986 00:42:59,630 --> 00:43:02,680 with you in terms of there's got to be some malleability here. 987 00:43:02,690 --> 00:43:05,820 And I don't think that we can safely say that for every single 988 00:43:05,830 --> 00:43:08,170 group of children in the whole country that one way is going to 989 00:43:08,180 --> 00:43:09,840 be better than another. I just don't think, I don't 990 00:43:09,850 --> 00:43:12,990 think we can do that. So OK, let's just say then we're 991 00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:16,290 accepting now that setting in certain environments is the 992 00:43:16,300 --> 00:43:17,780 right thing to do. OK. 993 00:43:17,940 --> 00:43:19,990 And in in other environments it's not. 994 00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:21,430 I think we can both agree with that. 995 00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:23,790 We can say sometimes it's the right decision to set, sometimes 996 00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:26,290 it's not. And and a slippery slope and a 997 00:43:26,300 --> 00:43:28,790 big thing from the research, again from about a decade ago 998 00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:32,150 now, a big part of the argument was, OK, so you want to set. 999 00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:34,250 OK, fine. We've got this research saying 1000 00:43:34,260 --> 00:43:36,020 it's bad. It doesn't really affect 1001 00:43:36,030 --> 00:43:39,090 attainment and it squashes up and it doesn't really help the 1002 00:43:39,100 --> 00:43:41,350 lower ability children much. And that's what we want to try 1003 00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:43,750 and protect in terms of, you know, mental health and all that 1004 00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:45,230 kind of stuff. OK, We accept all of that. 1005 00:43:45,240 --> 00:43:47,570 We can negate that for a good teaching, positive outcomes, 1006 00:43:47,580 --> 00:43:49,880 blah blah blah. Alright, but how are you going 1007 00:43:49,890 --> 00:43:52,700 to set, how are you going to make this decision that this 1008 00:43:52,710 --> 00:43:54,940 child should be in this category? 1009 00:43:55,030 --> 00:43:57,790 What are you going to use to inform that as a teacher? 1010 00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:00,270 Are you just going to teach them and say ohh, by the way these 1011 00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:03,030 kids should be doing this. Are you going to use a test? 1012 00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:04,760 Are you going to use a standardised measure? 1013 00:44:04,810 --> 00:44:08,150 Because the the big part from the research again was even 1014 00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:10,240 those who do set, it's very arbitrary. 1015 00:44:10,250 --> 00:44:12,950 It's it's a misinformed and subjective way of doing it in 1016 00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:16,020 the 1st place because you know, it's down to each individual 1017 00:44:16,030 --> 00:44:18,410 school and how many times have you taught us that and you 1018 00:44:18,420 --> 00:44:20,970 thought this child should be in a different set when when 1019 00:44:20,980 --> 00:44:22,530 really. Yeah, it's your gut instinct 1020 00:44:22,540 --> 00:44:25,040 saying that really, yeah. So you know, where do you stand 1021 00:44:25,050 --> 00:44:26,700 with? That I guess like 2 points. 1022 00:44:26,710 --> 00:44:29,270 Again, like with that exact example, I think firstly, if you 1023 00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:31,710 are going to be setting in a school where it has to be fluid, 1024 00:44:32,170 --> 00:44:34,990 it's got to be fluid. There's you know you can't if 1025 00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:36,630 we're already accepting. We're putting a bit of a ceiling 1026 00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:38,620 on the children by by doing sets. 1027 00:44:38,630 --> 00:44:40,600 If we're all agreeing another research isn't wrong, you know 1028 00:44:40,610 --> 00:44:42,230 you are kind of doing that whether you think you are or 1029 00:44:42,240 --> 00:44:44,260 not. Yeah, at least you need to be. 1030 00:44:44,270 --> 00:44:46,160 You need to be fluid. Like if a child is working at 1031 00:44:46,210 --> 00:44:48,020 higher or lower level, they need to be able to go to a different 1032 00:44:48,030 --> 00:44:50,120 set and get the right thing for their needs. 1033 00:44:50,130 --> 00:44:52,140 Otherwise it's just pointless. You've broken the system. 1034 00:44:52,150 --> 00:44:54,230 It's mixed ability again, because you've got one kid in 1035 00:44:54,240 --> 00:44:55,610 your class that shouldn't be there. 1036 00:44:56,810 --> 00:44:58,010 I've forgotten the original question. 1037 00:44:58,460 --> 00:45:00,790 Now my point was, how would how would you go about that then in 1038 00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:03,030 a world where we're both kind of saying, aren't we? 1039 00:45:03,100 --> 00:45:04,550 OK, well, yeah, of course we're gonna set. 1040 00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:07,910 Sometimes, I think if you're going to be the person or the 1041 00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:10,110 people in this case who are essentially going against the 1042 00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:12,610 research, which we are, you've got to really back it up, I 1043 00:45:12,620 --> 00:45:13,350 think. So. 1044 00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:16,740 You know, how would you go about deciding, A, whether it should 1045 00:45:16,750 --> 00:45:19,810 be set B, whether you should set across the school in a certain 1046 00:45:19,820 --> 00:45:22,950 way, C you know, what, are you actually going to go off? 1047 00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:25,210 Are you gonna go off the opinion of the teacher or are you gonna 1048 00:45:25,220 --> 00:45:27,350 go off empirical data? And how are you gonna make sure 1049 00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:28,960 that empirical data is worth going off? 1050 00:45:29,230 --> 00:45:31,900 I think the opinion of a teacher is something that has been long, 1051 00:45:32,130 --> 00:45:35,810 long forgotten and long thrown in the bin of like, oh, it's not 1052 00:45:35,820 --> 00:45:37,760 use, it's not useful because you know, sort of Sats came in and 1053 00:45:37,770 --> 00:45:39,570 said ohh, actually we don't care about teacher assessment 1054 00:45:39,580 --> 00:45:41,070 anymore. We're just gonna use this data 1055 00:45:41,110 --> 00:45:43,180 to inform everything. I think the the opinion of a 1056 00:45:43,190 --> 00:45:45,760 teacher is the most valid thing in my opinion. 1057 00:45:46,510 --> 00:45:49,490 I think if if you've been working with a group of children 1058 00:45:50,380 --> 00:45:54,240 and you notice that one of their needs isn't being met and you're 1059 00:45:54,250 --> 00:45:56,700 struggling to meet their needs, but you happen to know that 1060 00:45:56,710 --> 00:45:59,000 there's another set that exists that will meet their needs 1061 00:45:59,010 --> 00:46:01,790 perfectly, I think your opinion on that, regardless of where 1062 00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:03,780 they've done a test or not, should be the most important 1063 00:46:03,790 --> 00:46:05,700 thing. But I do think tests are a very, 1064 00:46:05,710 --> 00:46:08,780 very good way of either backing up what you said or or trying to 1065 00:46:08,790 --> 00:46:11,160 initially find something. For example, if you at the start 1066 00:46:11,170 --> 00:46:13,520 of the year when you don't know the children at all, I think 1067 00:46:13,530 --> 00:46:16,740 it's wise to, it's a starting point to maybe use the end of 1068 00:46:16,750 --> 00:46:18,740 year data from the previous year. 1069 00:46:18,990 --> 00:46:20,600 I think that's a good starting point. 1070 00:46:20,690 --> 00:46:23,710 And then as you start to learn the children, a bit of fluidity, 1071 00:46:23,720 --> 00:46:25,150 you know, children change anyway. 1072 00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:27,720 You could start moving them around a bit, but I think 1073 00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:30,000 opinion, teacher opinion is probably the most important 1074 00:46:30,010 --> 00:46:31,430 thing. Professionals, we work with 1075 00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:32,830 these kids all day. We know. 1076 00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:34,540 We know who they are. We know what they're like. 1077 00:46:34,550 --> 00:46:37,820 We know they're learning needs and capabilities very, very well 1078 00:46:37,830 --> 00:46:41,600 or as accurately as we can do. Yeah, that's my opinion. 1079 00:46:41,770 --> 00:46:44,080 OK so Hayden give us an insight then for anyone listening 1080 00:46:44,090 --> 00:46:47,260 because as most of you probably know we we lead maths. 1081 00:46:47,270 --> 00:46:50,130 We've LED maths in well LED maths in this school. 1082 00:46:50,140 --> 00:46:55,150 Hayden's LED maths in a number of schools Now we have a system 1083 00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:58,070 where we've kind of come to which we think is the best of 1084 00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:01,140 all worlds and and like you said of course we're fluid and we're 1085 00:47:01,150 --> 00:47:03,600 responsive and things like that but just just sit out. 1086 00:47:03,610 --> 00:47:06,650 Then Hayden you know how you in an ideal world which is 1087 00:47:06,660 --> 00:47:10,080 essentially what we do how would you go about setting then in a 1088 00:47:10,090 --> 00:47:14,650 system where you know let's say it's a Junior School they they 1089 00:47:14,660 --> 00:47:16,900 come to you guys in year three. We're in that situation like 1090 00:47:16,910 --> 00:47:19,490 you've said where we don't really have we have some data 1091 00:47:19,500 --> 00:47:20,980 but it's not something we can talk to. 1092 00:47:20,990 --> 00:47:22,790 We don't have the opinion of a teacher anymore. 1093 00:47:23,870 --> 00:47:25,980 Ohh, you talk about year four, year five? 1094 00:47:25,990 --> 00:47:27,330 Year six. A bunch of people messaged me on 1095 00:47:27,340 --> 00:47:29,940 Instagram and said they set. But only in year six. 1096 00:47:30,410 --> 00:47:31,220 Yeah. And. 1097 00:47:31,230 --> 00:47:33,580 And they talked about that kind of idea, which is very common. 1098 00:47:33,590 --> 00:47:35,140 I think I've just setting in year six. 1099 00:47:35,150 --> 00:47:37,020 We set because we know it improves outcomes. 1100 00:47:37,310 --> 00:47:38,790 So we just do it in the year that it matters. 1101 00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:40,080 Well, why are you sitting in year six? 1102 00:47:40,090 --> 00:47:41,460 It's when the Sats. OK, I see. 1103 00:47:41,470 --> 00:47:43,360 Interesting. So is that because they do 1104 00:47:43,370 --> 00:47:45,810 better in their Sats when you set or. 1105 00:47:45,820 --> 00:47:47,810 Yeah, yeah. Why would we wait to the end of 1106 00:47:47,820 --> 00:47:50,840 the school year to then set them when we know it's detrimental? 1107 00:47:50,850 --> 00:47:54,540 We obviously wouldn't do that. So how would you go about? 1108 00:47:54,940 --> 00:47:58,740 Setting children in a in a school setting, what would you 1109 00:47:58,750 --> 00:47:59,240 do? Sure. 1110 00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:02,860 So let's let's assume that at the start of your school, 1111 00:48:02,870 --> 00:48:04,680 wherever it is, if you're Junior School, primary school, let's 1112 00:48:04,690 --> 00:48:06,730 say you have no data on the children's mixability. 1113 00:48:06,740 --> 00:48:08,690 Straight away you start a mixed ability. 1114 00:48:08,700 --> 00:48:11,450 Yeah, who are we to guess based on nothing, right? 1115 00:48:11,460 --> 00:48:14,160 Put their mixed ability classes for an X amount of time, however 1116 00:48:14,170 --> 00:48:16,830 long you think is appropriate, a few months, you terms, whatever. 1117 00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:19,790 Once you've got a bit of empirical data and you've 1118 00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:21,650 learned that you need to know the children, I think at that 1119 00:48:21,660 --> 00:48:23,960 point you can start thinking if you're going to set this is when 1120 00:48:23,970 --> 00:48:27,020 you can start looking at the data and talking to the teachers 1121 00:48:27,030 --> 00:48:29,630 that teach them to decide on an individual basis for every 1122 00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:31,660 single child. It's not just a everyone that 1123 00:48:31,670 --> 00:48:34,980 got more than 20% goes here. No, no, it's every single child 1124 00:48:34,990 --> 00:48:37,280 is an individual. We can't think of them as data 1125 00:48:37,290 --> 00:48:40,050 points. We're not the government and put 1126 00:48:40,060 --> 00:48:43,990 them into a group that you think is going to be most beneficial 1127 00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:47,740 for their learning. Secondly, culture I think is so 1128 00:48:47,750 --> 00:48:49,840 important. If the research is saying it, it 1129 00:48:49,850 --> 00:48:53,020 negatively impacts their minds, their mindset, right? 1130 00:48:53,030 --> 00:48:54,440 Because they know what set they're in. 1131 00:48:54,770 --> 00:48:57,520 I think it is the school's responsibility to do everything 1132 00:48:57,530 --> 00:49:00,250 they possibly can to not make that a thing. 1133 00:49:00,730 --> 00:49:02,780 You can't get rid of it completely because kids aren't 1134 00:49:02,790 --> 00:49:04,260 stupid. They're going to work out if 1135 00:49:04,270 --> 00:49:06,520 they're in a higher or lower set by talking to their mates. 1136 00:49:06,770 --> 00:49:10,340 But you can at least not call it the low set and the greater 1137 00:49:10,350 --> 00:49:12,780 depth set. You know, stuff like set 1-2 and 1138 00:49:12,790 --> 00:49:15,920 three stupid arbitrary things where it's like any kid is 1139 00:49:15,930 --> 00:49:17,630 obviously going to work out what that means. 1140 00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:20,530 At least try to remove that sort of stuff. 1141 00:49:20,540 --> 00:49:22,750 So culture is really, really important. 1142 00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:26,760 Once you've got your sets, they have to be fluid and I think 1143 00:49:27,070 --> 00:49:29,810 you're going with the approach of if we in an ideal world, 1144 00:49:29,820 --> 00:49:32,040 we'll have mixed ability. So let's start with that 1145 00:49:32,050 --> 00:49:34,880 viewpoint. But based on the kids needs, 1146 00:49:34,950 --> 00:49:37,950 we'll make sets according to that. 1147 00:49:38,020 --> 00:49:40,750 So in our school we don't have like a lot of schools. 1148 00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:43,070 Actually I just have a system where it's like, ohh yeah, every 1149 00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:46,730 year we have six sets and the kids just get divided into those 1150 00:49:46,740 --> 00:49:48,550 sets. Like the sets pre exist the 1151 00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:50,650 children. Whereas in our school we have a 1152 00:49:50,660 --> 00:49:53,090 different approach and I really like our approach, which is that 1153 00:49:53,140 --> 00:49:56,210 the sets don't exist. Every year as a completely fresh 1154 00:49:56,220 --> 00:49:59,190 slate, we just have a cohort of let's say it just round it up to 1155 00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:02,700 100 children and we talk to the teachers and we look at the data 1156 00:50:02,710 --> 00:50:06,480 that we have on them and we go what would be the best for their 1157 00:50:06,490 --> 00:50:09,620 learning needs. We're balancing out learning 1158 00:50:09,630 --> 00:50:12,670 needs with budget for a start. It's like cool, let's let's have 1159 00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:14,970 them in 17 sets. I'm sure that'd be great but we 1160 00:50:14,980 --> 00:50:17,120 don't have 17 teachers. So we're but we're we're 1161 00:50:17,130 --> 00:50:20,060 thinking about budget, what's realistic, what can we actually 1162 00:50:20,070 --> 00:50:21,760 do? Equally we're still thinking 1163 00:50:21,770 --> 00:50:25,040 about the kids mindset I think and their mental health of if 1164 00:50:25,050 --> 00:50:27,440 we're going to do this, you know, let's not let's not just 1165 00:50:27,450 --> 00:50:30,470 take out three children and put them in a set. 1166 00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:32,180 We're like you just make them feel terrible. 1167 00:50:32,230 --> 00:50:35,620 So if we can avoid doing a set like that we will. 1168 00:50:35,810 --> 00:50:38,290 And if it's really necessary like in our school a couple of 1169 00:50:38,300 --> 00:50:41,680 times every couple of years we just happen to have a cohort of 1170 00:50:41,690 --> 00:50:45,340 children where maybe there's just a bunch of the children in 1171 00:50:45,350 --> 00:50:48,560 that year group that are just severely behind others. 1172 00:50:48,570 --> 00:50:52,520 And and it's just unreasonable to put them in a mixed ability 1173 00:50:52,530 --> 00:50:56,190 class because it's gonna be extremely hard to plan for them 1174 00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:59,050 to make a really good progress. And I also think something that 1175 00:50:59,060 --> 00:51:00,330 the research probably misses out. 1176 00:51:00,340 --> 00:51:02,490 I don't know you could correct me on this one but I reckon it 1177 00:51:02,500 --> 00:51:03,960 misses out because it's inconvenient. 1178 00:51:04,020 --> 00:51:09,240 Is that is there any negative side effects to to children's 1179 00:51:09,250 --> 00:51:11,110 mentality when they're in a mixed ability set and they're 1180 00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:14,140 clearly the lowest in the class because I find that interesting. 1181 00:51:14,150 --> 00:51:16,570 Imagine being sat there and you said everyone else is doing this 1182 00:51:16,580 --> 00:51:19,370 task you get given that different differentiated thing 1183 00:51:19,380 --> 00:51:23,820 every every twinkle time. Yeah, like there's a whole other 1184 00:51:23,830 --> 00:51:24,880 conversation come to in a minute. 1185 00:51:24,980 --> 00:51:27,800 Differentiate sheets and things. Yeah, yeah, I reckon there's, 1186 00:51:27,810 --> 00:51:29,210 you know, I don't think it's perfect. 1187 00:51:29,220 --> 00:51:31,110 I don't think being in a mixed ability, suddenly all the kids 1188 00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:32,570 are like, ohh, no, we're all the same. 1189 00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:35,070 It's like no, no, they'll still work out that that everyone else 1190 00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:37,430 is doing that hard task and you can't write your name properly. 1191 00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:39,750 They're not gonna not know. Well, here's the thing. 1192 00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:41,270 We'll move on to differentiation now though. 1193 00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:43,060 It's such a good point. I'm gonna start off by saying 1194 00:51:43,070 --> 00:51:45,850 something I've always thought because I've played almost ever 1195 00:51:45,860 --> 00:51:48,310 there was advocate during this episode a little bit because I I 1196 00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:50,980 think the way we do things is a really good way of doing it. 1197 00:51:50,990 --> 00:51:52,430 And I think being reactive to the children. 1198 00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:56,060 So the number one thing, however, it really makes me 1199 00:51:56,070 --> 00:51:58,200 laugh. And people are like vehemently, 1200 00:51:58,250 --> 00:52:01,080 vehemently like, yeah, we must do mixed ability because of this 1201 00:52:01,090 --> 00:52:02,580 and this. And I'm like, OK, it's nice that 1202 00:52:02,590 --> 00:52:04,020 you're really passionate about it. 1203 00:52:04,350 --> 00:52:07,700 But, you know, let's think about it for a second because either 1204 00:52:07,710 --> 00:52:12,050 we set via class, OK, Where in four different classrooms 1205 00:52:12,060 --> 00:52:13,920 there's four different levels of children, right. 1206 00:52:13,930 --> 00:52:17,600 And then within that set, I still group my children based on 1207 00:52:17,610 --> 00:52:18,980 how well I think they're doing day-to-day. 1208 00:52:18,990 --> 00:52:21,080 I might move children around and be like, OK, you guys are 1209 00:52:21,090 --> 00:52:22,300 cracking on today. Well done. 1210 00:52:22,390 --> 00:52:23,710 These guys need a bit more support. 1211 00:52:23,720 --> 00:52:26,390 So I'm still doing that. OK, now that flipped to a mixed 1212 00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:28,350 ability classroom. You just have that in the 1213 00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:31,500 microcosm of a classroom you've got 4 tables, and the four 1214 00:52:31,510 --> 00:52:34,290 tables are the four sets which would exist, but instead of 1215 00:52:34,300 --> 00:52:36,970 having a different teacher on each table, this time catering 1216 00:52:36,980 --> 00:52:39,950 to those needs, you've got one teachers at the front who's 1217 00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:42,890 having to balance what would be 4 classes if you said yeah, 1218 00:52:42,900 --> 00:52:45,840 doing 4 different things, one tables doing something 1219 00:52:45,850 --> 00:52:48,830 completely like 2 years below where they where they like year 1220 00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:50,470 expected. The other ones doing greater 1221 00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:53,010 depth in that year group and and you're suggesting that that's 1222 00:52:53,020 --> 00:52:54,830 always better. I find that hard to believe. 1223 00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:56,870 Yeah, me too. I think just that is a perfect 1224 00:52:56,880 --> 00:52:59,810 example, because if they're, if they're if they're set, at least 1225 00:52:59,820 --> 00:53:02,140 they're surrounded by children that are like minded and similar 1226 00:53:02,150 --> 00:53:03,500 ability, right? Completely. 1227 00:53:03,610 --> 00:53:06,280 It might actually help them not feel rubbish, but when you're 1228 00:53:06,290 --> 00:53:08,080 sat on the table on the next table, the table next to you is 1229 00:53:08,090 --> 00:53:09,720 doing all harder stuff every single day. 1230 00:53:10,420 --> 00:53:13,650 Yeah I think it's more likely that you're going to look over 1231 00:53:13,660 --> 00:53:15,870 and be like ohh, we're the lowest table. 1232 00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:18,890 I think that's more likely than realising with a lower set. 1233 00:53:18,900 --> 00:53:19,910 I don't know maybe it's the same. 1234 00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:22,550 But your point stands which is that yeah, it's not always gonna 1235 00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:24,730 be better though is it Depends how you do externality. 1236 00:53:24,740 --> 00:53:27,830 So do do you think that mixed ability to work effectively, as 1237 00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:32,090 the research says has to be true, pure, make stability, as 1238 00:53:32,100 --> 00:53:35,950 in like the children have no idea that of their ability like 1239 00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:39,170 in the classroom, completely random seating plan? 1240 00:53:39,540 --> 00:53:41,670 Yeah, I don't. I don't get the impression from 1241 00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:43,550 the research. The impression I got was simply 1242 00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:47,130 that you exacerbated by setting like it's always going to exist. 1243 00:53:47,210 --> 00:53:49,800 You obviously exacerbated by setting which is obviously true, 1244 00:53:49,810 --> 00:53:53,400 like it's obviously much more. It's much easier to realise that 1245 00:53:53,410 --> 00:53:56,730 and also it it gives the IT, it puts a ceiling on the children 1246 00:53:56,740 --> 00:53:59,180 to move around in the class and be able to do something right. 1247 00:53:59,190 --> 00:54:02,040 So if someone if someone's on the oblong table and they 1248 00:54:02,050 --> 00:54:04,270 usually do the lower stuff, but it's a lesson that they really 1249 00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:06,800 get this time and they can move on to the same sheets as the 1250 00:54:06,810 --> 00:54:10,360 triangle table, right? That is harder to implement in a 1251 00:54:10,410 --> 00:54:13,010 in a setting like. You can still do it if you're a 1252 00:54:13,020 --> 00:54:16,060 good teacher and you put lots of time in, but it's harder to 1253 00:54:16,070 --> 00:54:18,970 achieve that and that fluidity that we talked about. 1254 00:54:18,980 --> 00:54:20,950 We have to have fluidity we're doing setting. 1255 00:54:21,020 --> 00:54:23,630 Well, that fluidity just kind of exists everyday in a mixed 1256 00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:25,110 ability. So I don't want anyone to think 1257 00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:27,590 that we're sat here going mixed abilities obviously bad. 1258 00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:29,550 No, no, no. I think all we're trying to say 1259 00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:32,390 here is like in defence of still sometimes setting because I 1260 00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:33,890 think there's gonna be pros and cons. 1261 00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:36,010 Yeah, yeah, yeah. OK, let's move on to talk about 1262 00:54:36,020 --> 00:54:38,670 differentiation then. Anyone who hasn't worked in a 1263 00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:40,550 school before is probably thinking what on earth is 1264 00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:42,110 differentiation. You've been talking about and 1265 00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:45,930 the and the and the point is the the overall goal for a child in 1266 00:54:45,940 --> 00:54:48,050 any year group is that they access that year group's 1267 00:54:48,060 --> 00:54:51,220 curriculum, OK. And I think as as educators and 1268 00:54:51,230 --> 00:54:55,300 as non educators as well, we can accept that children are not 1269 00:54:55,310 --> 00:54:58,360 going to be able to access something in the curriculum at 1270 00:54:58,370 --> 00:55:01,970 the same level, at the same ability as other children. 1271 00:55:01,980 --> 00:55:04,340 That's exactly what's whole conversation's been about. 1272 00:55:04,350 --> 00:55:08,140 So if you're doing a lesson on, let's just say it's a column 1273 00:55:08,150 --> 00:55:10,100 addition. How to add together 2 numbers 1274 00:55:10,710 --> 00:55:13,460 and you're in now. OK, we're in this mixed ability 1275 00:55:13,470 --> 00:55:18,360 setting, OK? Differentiation would be the 1276 00:55:18,370 --> 00:55:21,520 difference between what you expect one child and another to 1277 00:55:21,530 --> 00:55:25,040 be doing in that lesson. So it if you walk into a class 1278 00:55:25,050 --> 00:55:27,400 for them, Yeah, exactly. If you walked into a classroom 1279 00:55:27,410 --> 00:55:31,680 of 32 children, and every single child was doing the exact same 1280 00:55:31,690 --> 00:55:35,670 task with the exact same amount of support, it would be a bit. 1281 00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:39,180 Odd and same a bit station. Exactly. 1282 00:55:39,190 --> 00:55:41,390 So exactly that we're we're stepping into the mixed ability 1283 00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:43,640 classroom. Now we're not setting cause 1284 00:55:43,650 --> 00:55:46,050 setting kind of different differentiates for you. 1285 00:55:46,060 --> 00:55:47,790 The problem being it's predetermined, but it does 1286 00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:50,490 differentiate for you. If you set four ways, you're 1287 00:55:50,500 --> 00:55:51,840 already differentiating four ways. 1288 00:55:51,850 --> 00:55:53,980 You get 4 different curriculums almost that I'm meeting the 1289 00:55:53,990 --> 00:55:58,030 needs of the children, you and mixability classroom Now it's 1290 00:55:58,040 --> 00:56:00,170 weird that we have all this positivity about mixed ability 1291 00:56:00,180 --> 00:56:02,590 and stuff, but then then then we have to sit down and be like ohh 1292 00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:04,360 by the way. You do need to plan for 1293 00:56:04,370 --> 00:56:07,490 different things though, because we now are going to accept that 1294 00:56:07,500 --> 00:56:09,000 there are obviously different children at different. 1295 00:56:09,010 --> 00:56:11,390 Levels. I think that that's that kind of 1296 00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:12,670 mindset has also gone out of the window. 1297 00:56:12,680 --> 00:56:14,760 But hasn't it recently? Because it very much used to 1298 00:56:14,770 --> 00:56:17,100 when we started our careers. I remember it was drilled into 1299 00:56:17,110 --> 00:56:20,110 us, like properly drilled. We'd literally get pulled up if 1300 00:56:20,120 --> 00:56:22,610 our lessons didn't do this. It was always every lesson we 1301 00:56:22,620 --> 00:56:25,970 taught had to have three different tasks. 1302 00:56:26,060 --> 00:56:28,010 And some of you teachers might be thinking, Oh my God, yeah, 1303 00:56:28,090 --> 00:56:30,540 it's either still the same for me or I remember that very well. 1304 00:56:30,670 --> 00:56:32,600 And it was unique liability. Blue. 1305 00:56:32,660 --> 00:56:34,340 Yep, orange, green and blue or whatever it was. 1306 00:56:34,450 --> 00:56:37,460 You need a low ability task, you need a middle ability task, and 1307 00:56:37,470 --> 00:56:40,110 you need a higher ability task. It all needs to be around the 1308 00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:42,120 same objective because we're inclusive and it's a mixed 1309 00:56:42,130 --> 00:56:44,880 ability class. But give them different things 1310 00:56:44,890 --> 00:56:48,900 to suit their ability, and it did the exact same thing that 1311 00:56:48,910 --> 00:56:52,240 setting does, just in a worse way, in my opinion, because you 1312 00:56:52,250 --> 00:56:54,400 just as you're now one teacher trying to do three things rather 1313 00:56:54,410 --> 00:56:56,640 than three teachers doing one thing each. 1314 00:56:57,920 --> 00:57:00,650 And yeah, so you'd go around the class and and I remember, I 1315 00:57:00,660 --> 00:57:02,020 actually remember watching a lesson once. 1316 00:57:02,030 --> 00:57:03,960 It was one of the first lessons I ever watched, like as a sort 1317 00:57:03,970 --> 00:57:06,840 of trainee teacher. And I genuinely, genuinely 1318 00:57:06,850 --> 00:57:09,710 remember thinking, oh, this is like making me feel a bit 1319 00:57:09,720 --> 00:57:13,460 embarrassed because the teacher was going around and going 1320 00:57:13,470 --> 00:57:16,210 right, you get this task. Ohh no, you don't get that. 1321 00:57:16,220 --> 00:57:18,360 When you got the harder one, you get that task. 1322 00:57:18,690 --> 00:57:20,340 You've got that one. And just going around handing 1323 00:57:20,350 --> 00:57:22,080 out the differentiated sheets to the kids. 1324 00:57:22,150 --> 00:57:25,760 And I was thinking, doesn't that make that kid feel really dumb 1325 00:57:25,770 --> 00:57:26,940 now? Because you just gave the one 1326 00:57:26,950 --> 00:57:29,320 next to them the hard one and they can see that they've got 1327 00:57:29,330 --> 00:57:31,690 the one where they have to draw a circle and they've got to 1328 00:57:31,700 --> 00:57:34,700 write an essay like does they? Are they not gonna realise that? 1329 00:57:34,750 --> 00:57:36,480 So it's, you know, it always comes back to that same 1330 00:57:36,530 --> 00:57:39,550 mentality that the mental health thing with the children. 1331 00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:42,790 But yeah, the three tasks, man, I think it's gone out the window 1332 00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:45,410 a bit more, and I think rightfully so. 1333 00:57:45,610 --> 00:57:48,070 Schools and education generally have realised that. 1334 00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:52,030 Try to get the kids doing the same task of differentiate by 1335 00:57:52,040 --> 00:57:53,670 the support that you give them, you know? 1336 00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:57,350 Maybe maybe one child just gets a support sheet that all guides 1337 00:57:57,360 --> 00:57:58,870 their thinking a bit more, you know? 1338 00:57:59,060 --> 00:58:03,250 And gets and gets like and gets not as far into the lesson and 1339 00:58:03,260 --> 00:58:07,250 the object like plans it like you're a variation in your 1340 00:58:07,260 --> 00:58:09,550 letter right start maybe at a lower level. 1341 00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:12,650 Everyone has starts off at a level where they simply 1342 00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:16,110 demonstrating that they can meet the meet the objective. 1343 00:58:16,220 --> 00:58:19,240 That's where we kind of start. If children still aren't meeting 1344 00:58:19,250 --> 00:58:21,540 the objective, maybe they'll carry on with some practise. 1345 00:58:21,790 --> 00:58:23,830 If children do meet the objective, maybe they'll move on 1346 00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:25,820 to a bit of problem solving based on what they've learned 1347 00:58:25,870 --> 00:58:27,710 and they can like apply it in a certain way. 1348 00:58:27,750 --> 00:58:29,810 And then the other children who were practising, practising 1349 00:58:29,820 --> 00:58:31,880 maybe at the end or do a bit of problem solving with you. 1350 00:58:31,890 --> 00:58:33,980 But you know, you're kind of doing the same thing and you 1351 00:58:33,990 --> 00:58:35,270 change it. For anyone who's not sure what 1352 00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:37,600 we're talking about here in terms of three tasks, let's say 1353 00:58:37,610 --> 00:58:40,820 we were talking about again, let's just say it's addition. 1354 00:58:40,870 --> 00:58:44,020 So the the three tasks might be task A is just adding two 1355 00:58:44,030 --> 00:58:45,550 numbers together. There's no exchanging. 1356 00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:47,820 They've just got to layout the columns and maybe the columns 1357 00:58:47,830 --> 00:58:50,060 are already laid out for them. So all they've got to do is 1358 00:58:50,070 --> 00:58:51,810 simply add up the ones about the 10s. 1359 00:58:51,900 --> 00:58:54,870 The next one might be they've got to set it up themselves and 1360 00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:57,600 then do the edition. And the third one might be some 1361 00:58:57,610 --> 00:59:00,140 addition in some word problems where they've got to read like a 1362 00:59:00,150 --> 00:59:02,860 paragraph and work out what the question is that that's that's 1363 00:59:02,870 --> 00:59:04,570 what we're talking about. And it used to be you'd walk 1364 00:59:04,580 --> 00:59:07,900 into a room and I remember this you'd say OK these two tables 1365 00:59:07,910 --> 00:59:10,340 you're gonna start on B, don't worry about A, just go straight 1366 00:59:10,350 --> 00:59:12,280 to B. These tables in the middle, 1367 00:59:12,290 --> 00:59:14,750 everyone else you're going to start A and this table you're 1368 00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:17,530 going to do A with me and you'd still have that bit of support 1369 00:59:17,540 --> 00:59:19,050 and. Stuff like maximum target books. 1370 00:59:19,400 --> 00:59:21,410 Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Massive Target 3. 1371 00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:23,470 Tasks on each page. Yeah, well, and what was 1372 00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:26,150 happening, and this kind of backs up the people who are for 1373 00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:28,600 mixed ability classes. It shows that they're not just 1374 00:59:28,610 --> 00:59:31,520 blindly for any mixed ability because those same people are 1375 00:59:31,530 --> 00:59:33,990 saying that's also unacceptable. We can't set because we're 1376 00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:37,190 putting a ceiling on children, but also we can't do this, you 1377 00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:39,390 know, mixed ability class that's also putting a ceiling on 1378 00:59:39,400 --> 00:59:41,100 children. So, and it has some mental 1379 00:59:41,110 --> 00:59:42,830 effects. Yeah, it's the same mental 1380 00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:46,030 effect and I think you know anyone blindly could could 1381 00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:47,890 blindly read the research and this is where I always had a 1382 00:59:47,900 --> 00:59:52,240 problem with it and simply see OK, research says mixed 30 1383 00:59:52,250 --> 00:59:54,590 better than say it's cool we're gonna do mixed ability and then 1384 00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:56,600 kind of not go any further than that so. 1385 00:59:56,670 --> 00:59:59,400 Or not effectively? Yeah, not to effectively exactly 1386 00:59:59,410 --> 01:00:01,980 that. So in a class in Hayden, we're 1387 01:00:01,990 --> 01:00:03,900 in mixed ability now because I think, OK, it's cool. 1388 01:00:04,390 --> 01:00:07,020 You talked about differentiation by outcome. 1389 01:00:07,030 --> 01:00:09,030 Could you just maybe expand a bit on what you mean by 1390 01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:11,740 differentiation by outcome and how that's more of a trendy term 1391 01:00:11,750 --> 01:00:13,550 at the minute? And and how else might you 1392 01:00:13,560 --> 01:00:15,020 differentiate? Like where would you sit the 1393 01:00:15,030 --> 01:00:16,860 children with the same family different? 1394 01:00:18,310 --> 01:00:20,800 Differentiation by outcome anyone's not in that world is 1395 01:00:20,810 --> 01:00:24,990 literally as it sounds is it's you as a teacher just having a a 1396 01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:26,910 different expectation for how much the children achieve. 1397 01:00:26,920 --> 01:00:29,350 Not being like everyone must get too questioned 10 before break 1398 01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:31,540 or you miss your break. That's a really sort of outdated 1399 01:00:31,550 --> 01:00:33,260 and not very inclusive way of teaching. 1400 01:00:33,350 --> 01:00:36,860 It's it's more like you've designed your task you know 1401 01:00:36,930 --> 01:00:39,640 intelligent design with tasks which is something we talk about 1402 01:00:39,650 --> 01:00:42,620 a lot in maths so that actually you know children, some children 1403 01:00:42,630 --> 01:00:44,410 can go further and further and deeper and deeper into that 1404 01:00:44,420 --> 01:00:46,460 understanding. They're all doing the same task 1405 01:00:46,590 --> 01:00:48,880 but the outcome is different. I might only expect that some 1406 01:00:48,890 --> 01:00:51,650 children like if they can go further if they want, but I 1407 01:00:51,660 --> 01:00:53,860 might only expect them to get to a certain level and then maybe 1408 01:00:53,870 --> 01:00:56,570 require some support. So other levels are other ways 1409 01:00:56,580 --> 01:00:59,170 to differentiate and which basically just means to support 1410 01:00:59,180 --> 01:01:02,110 children and meeting objectives like Dylan said, is with the use 1411 01:01:02,120 --> 01:01:03,530 of adults. Obviously if you're lucky enough 1412 01:01:03,540 --> 01:01:06,860 to have a teaching assistant or any adult really in your 1413 01:01:06,870 --> 01:01:10,240 classroom that can support you, it might be that they work with 1414 01:01:10,250 --> 01:01:14,520 a child or a group of children. It might be that they which is 1415 01:01:14,530 --> 01:01:16,580 quite common and trendy now, they sort of do the actual 1416 01:01:16,590 --> 01:01:19,900 floating around the class and you go and work with a table of 1417 01:01:19,910 --> 01:01:22,320 children because a lot of people say, you know, it was very 1418 01:01:22,330 --> 01:01:24,660 frowned upon, wasn't it years ago That why why is the TA 1419 01:01:24,670 --> 01:01:27,170 always left with working with the lowest 4 but the four 1420 01:01:27,180 --> 01:01:29,360 ability children in the classroom when you're the 1421 01:01:29,370 --> 01:01:31,840 trained teacher, you go and work with the lowest affordability 1422 01:01:32,150 --> 01:01:34,600 children and the TA can go around and helicopter and help 1423 01:01:34,610 --> 01:01:36,940 other people out, which I fully agree with by the way. 1424 01:01:37,270 --> 01:01:39,560 So that's another one differentiation with with Paul 1425 01:01:39,960 --> 01:01:43,430 and you know obviously that falls down, doesn't it some 1426 01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:46,450 point differentiation by support, pretty obvious we talk 1427 01:01:46,460 --> 01:01:49,090 about all the time. Go on Dylan, where's the fall 1428 01:01:49,100 --> 01:01:51,050 down? This is the problem, I think for 1429 01:01:51,060 --> 01:01:55,210 mixed ability classes to work, I truly think that we have to have 1430 01:01:55,220 --> 01:01:57,090 support in the classroom and there's not enough funding. 1431 01:01:57,100 --> 01:02:01,470 So if you look at cross section, let's say there's four English 1432 01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:05,680 sets when in the school that I work with and we have two 1433 01:02:05,690 --> 01:02:08,170 adults, two adults support. So you know there's a rota. 1434 01:02:08,180 --> 01:02:12,060 They're in some days and not another days it's it's I I would 1435 01:02:12,070 --> 01:02:16,260 go as far to say that it is truly impossible to fully 1436 01:02:16,270 --> 01:02:20,000 maximise mixed ability classes and learning without any form of 1437 01:02:20,010 --> 01:02:21,300 adult support in there to help you. 1438 01:02:21,310 --> 01:02:24,860 And I think the perfect way where we're really blind as a 1439 01:02:24,870 --> 01:02:28,040 profession, where we can see it in front of our eyes and we just 1440 01:02:28,050 --> 01:02:31,000 pretend it's not a problem, is when we teach anything other 1441 01:02:31,010 --> 01:02:33,360 than English and maths. So in English and maths, most 1442 01:02:33,370 --> 01:02:35,650 schools will set they'll get an extra teacher in the morning. 1443 01:02:35,720 --> 01:02:37,600 That teacher. Which by the way means that 1444 01:02:37,610 --> 01:02:40,120 classes are a bit smaller. So you know, instead of having 1445 01:02:40,130 --> 01:02:42,600 32 children in your class for maths and English, you might 1446 01:02:42,610 --> 01:02:44,900 have anything from 18 up to 2024. 1447 01:02:44,910 --> 01:02:47,380 Let's just appreciate just to have another 4 differentiation. 1448 01:02:47,390 --> 01:02:48,940 Is it by selling? Another form of differentiation, 1449 01:02:48,950 --> 01:02:52,620 your ratio between adults and children, but we're very clear 1450 01:02:52,670 --> 01:02:55,320 that you know that that is absolutely needed for children 1451 01:02:55,330 --> 01:02:57,480 to make good progress. Whether you set or not, is the 1452 01:02:57,490 --> 01:03:00,520 ability to have smaller classes and have more adults. 1453 01:03:00,530 --> 01:03:04,070 So the ratio for adults to children is much smaller than if 1454 01:03:04,080 --> 01:03:06,700 it was just you in your class. Then I don't know what happens 1455 01:03:06,710 --> 01:03:08,900 over lunchtime. As a profession, we seem to have 1456 01:03:08,910 --> 01:03:11,110 like, you know, collective amnesia, because we just forget 1457 01:03:11,120 --> 01:03:13,510 that that's really important. And then the afternoon comes 1458 01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:14,860 around, you're not in sets anymore. 1459 01:03:14,870 --> 01:03:16,520 You're back to your class of 32 children. 1460 01:03:16,570 --> 01:03:18,580 You've got no adult support whatsoever cause there's no 1461 01:03:18,590 --> 01:03:20,760 budget for that. So I we don't have A at all in 1462 01:03:20,770 --> 01:03:23,600 the afternoon help you in class. You got 32 kids and you need to 1463 01:03:23,610 --> 01:03:25,680 build a geodesic structure out of sticks, by the way. 1464 01:03:25,750 --> 01:03:26,780 Indeed. And it's two hours. 1465 01:03:26,790 --> 01:03:28,580 What? What? 1466 01:03:29,110 --> 01:03:32,020 Excuse me? And I think you know that that 1467 01:03:32,030 --> 01:03:34,620 therein lies the problem. You know, if we're going to be 1468 01:03:34,630 --> 01:03:38,310 idealistic about this, you need to enter the real world, because 1469 01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:41,910 idealism works fantastic when there's no restraint on budget. 1470 01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:43,950 And I don't even mean no restraint on budget, to be 1471 01:03:43,960 --> 01:03:46,530 honest with you. I mean having a TA during the 1472 01:03:46,540 --> 01:03:48,990 whole day. Can you imagine, Hayden, how 1473 01:03:49,000 --> 01:03:51,690 much better do you think your practise would be for your 1474 01:03:51,700 --> 01:03:54,790 children? And in general, if you, as a 1475 01:03:54,800 --> 01:03:58,490 teacher, had an assistant teacher with you all day? 1476 01:03:58,660 --> 01:04:00,710 You worked together as a two and it was. 1477 01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:02,230 Your job to get through the class was. 1478 01:04:02,240 --> 01:04:03,940 So much better for exactly what you just said. 1479 01:04:03,950 --> 01:04:06,350 You know the afternoons, I think on average in my 10 years of 1480 01:04:06,360 --> 01:04:10,000 teaching, I'd say on average per class, I have between 3:00 and 1481 01:04:10,010 --> 01:04:13,310 7:00 children in my in my class. So when it's back to that 1482 01:04:13,320 --> 01:04:17,740 stability in the afternoon that require support to meet the 1483 01:04:17,750 --> 01:04:21,280 basic needs of the curriculum, and I'm talking they literally 1484 01:04:21,290 --> 01:04:26,250 need an adult with them, or at least a lot of time spent with 1485 01:04:26,260 --> 01:04:28,320 them in that lesson. Disproportionate amount of time 1486 01:04:28,370 --> 01:04:31,120 for them to to for them to achieve the most basic level, 1487 01:04:31,130 --> 01:04:34,080 level of that curriculum. And and yeah, yeah, like you 1488 01:04:34,090 --> 01:04:35,990 said, it's very common to not have one. 1489 01:04:36,190 --> 01:04:38,920 We just seem to forget that for mixed abilities to work, we need 1490 01:04:38,930 --> 01:04:41,140 those things in place. Yeah, it's impossible. 1491 01:04:41,150 --> 01:04:43,300 If I had it, it would be great if I'd say you have a great 1492 01:04:43,310 --> 01:04:45,540 bond. If you had like one person 1493 01:04:45,550 --> 01:04:47,660 working with all day, obviously there is a chance that maybe you 1494 01:04:47,670 --> 01:04:49,770 don't have a great bond, then you stuck with someone who you 1495 01:04:49,780 --> 01:04:50,930 don't work well with. But generally. 1496 01:04:50,940 --> 01:04:52,900 You can't have job, isn't it? That's yeah, you're gonna use 1497 01:04:52,910 --> 01:04:54,950 college, yeah, you're gonna get on with, you know, you gonna 1498 01:04:54,960 --> 01:04:56,200 make the effort to get on with someone. 1499 01:04:56,270 --> 01:04:58,400 And yeah, it's gonna be more beneficial in the afternoon and 1500 01:04:58,410 --> 01:05:00,820 maybe you could do more mixed ability stuff in the mornings, 1501 01:05:01,290 --> 01:05:03,310 like we've got a high rate approach, haven't we? 1502 01:05:03,320 --> 01:05:05,830 We've mentioned, I think we've really summarised it, but we've 1503 01:05:05,840 --> 01:05:07,360 got a very much a hybrid approach. 1504 01:05:07,410 --> 01:05:10,460 We try to do mixed ability as much as possible in English and 1505 01:05:10,470 --> 01:05:12,180 maths. We find it easier to do in 1506 01:05:12,190 --> 01:05:13,700 English for the reasons we discussed earlier. 1507 01:05:13,710 --> 01:05:16,070 So generally we are just completely mixed ability in 1508 01:05:16,080 --> 01:05:19,270 English, and in maths we have a bit of a hybrid approach. 1509 01:05:19,280 --> 01:05:22,820 We generally take out our top 32 children and then mix the rest 1510 01:05:23,510 --> 01:05:26,460 and if an absolutely necessary we'll make another set based on 1511 01:05:26,510 --> 01:05:27,940 on on the on the children's data. 1512 01:05:27,950 --> 01:05:30,660 But if we had more adults we might not even need to do that. 1513 01:05:30,670 --> 01:05:32,880 You know it might that just might not be a thing and we can 1514 01:05:32,890 --> 01:05:34,940 fully embrace what the research says. 1515 01:05:34,950 --> 01:05:39,160 But yeah, big theme of today reality sometimes is very 1516 01:05:39,170 --> 01:05:42,540 different to the idealism that comes from from research and the 1517 01:05:42,550 --> 01:05:45,040 research might be great and not even void in any way. 1518 01:05:45,110 --> 01:05:46,840 It just might not work for your school. 1519 01:05:47,070 --> 01:05:48,960 It might not be realistic. That's that's the way I see it. 1520 01:05:48,970 --> 01:05:52,480 And I've found over the years that it hasn't worked and I've 1521 01:05:52,490 --> 01:05:54,370 got better outcomes and happier children. 1522 01:05:54,420 --> 01:05:57,760 I think in doing it, it may be in a slightly different way to 1523 01:05:57,770 --> 01:06:01,060 what the research says. You're going to be very. 1524 01:06:01,170 --> 01:06:04,560 I think a lot of people will be not shocked, but I think I do 1525 01:06:04,570 --> 01:06:06,750 think the consensus right now is to not set. 1526 01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:08,390 So this will be a very interesting episode to get 1527 01:06:08,400 --> 01:06:10,440 everyone's thoughts on it. Because I've spoken to some 1528 01:06:10,450 --> 01:06:13,240 people on Instagram this morning when I put a post out who said 1529 01:06:13,330 --> 01:06:16,820 and I specifically asked them, when they mentioned that they, a 1530 01:06:16,830 --> 01:06:20,240 couple of people mentioned both. And I specifically said to them, 1531 01:06:20,470 --> 01:06:23,900 what did you find worked better? And they said staying in class 1532 01:06:23,910 --> 01:06:25,880 worked better, you know, for a number of reasons. 1533 01:06:25,890 --> 01:06:29,360 Like we spoke recently, you know, flipping the switch again. 1534 01:06:29,370 --> 01:06:32,040 Now suppose we we worked recently with someone who came 1535 01:06:32,050 --> 01:06:34,800 in and helped us with our spelling in school, spellings 1536 01:06:34,810 --> 01:06:36,260 poor. So we had some staff training on 1537 01:06:36,270 --> 01:06:39,220 spelling and what we can do to help the children. 1538 01:06:39,590 --> 01:06:43,660 And I mentioned this because again, it was very it was a very 1539 01:06:43,670 --> 01:06:45,480 good training session. I felt like I got a lot out of 1540 01:06:45,490 --> 01:06:47,150 it. But but again, as soon as I 1541 01:06:47,160 --> 01:06:50,160 thought, OK, how am I going to apply this to my class, the 1542 01:06:50,170 --> 01:06:53,580 idealism quickly turned into realism of OK, that this is all 1543 01:06:53,590 --> 01:06:56,680 cool and these are some fantastic games for prefixes and 1544 01:06:56,850 --> 01:06:59,850 I love the grid game where we can like write words and find 1545 01:06:59,860 --> 01:07:02,170 them but my kids can't spell who. 1546 01:07:02,560 --> 01:07:05,710 So you know giving them a grid of nine letters and saying find 1547 01:07:05,720 --> 01:07:09,030 as many words as possible isn't actually gonna help them spell 1548 01:07:09,080 --> 01:07:12,130 words better. And I've got this spectrum in my 1549 01:07:12,140 --> 01:07:14,560 class of children who do a million different ways of 1550 01:07:14,570 --> 01:07:16,610 spelling wrong. Some of them do prefixes, some 1551 01:07:16,620 --> 01:07:19,200 of the site words. Some of do phonics and I don't 1552 01:07:19,210 --> 01:07:21,580 actually know how to help them properly as one person stood in 1553 01:07:21,590 --> 01:07:24,990 front of them and you didn't really get an answer for it. 1554 01:07:25,000 --> 01:07:28,440 And I think that's one of the biggest downfalls like you said 1555 01:07:28,450 --> 01:07:31,840 with, you know a mixed ability setting is it doesn't really 1556 01:07:31,850 --> 01:07:34,240 answer that question. And the people were saying it 1557 01:07:34,250 --> 01:07:36,180 was better though when they stayed in class. 1558 01:07:36,550 --> 01:07:39,050 And I I suppose maybe then throughout the day you know your 1559 01:07:39,060 --> 01:07:41,100 children better because you're not getting children different 1560 01:07:41,110 --> 01:07:43,040 classes just from maths just for English. 1561 01:07:43,090 --> 01:07:46,600 But I I just I don't think it's the be all and end all. 1562 01:07:46,810 --> 01:07:49,040 Yeah, no, I agree. And I reckon it would maybe be 1563 01:07:49,050 --> 01:07:52,110 slightly easier to manage the million different ways your 1564 01:07:52,120 --> 01:07:54,900 children spelling things wrong if we attempted to group them 1565 01:07:54,910 --> 01:07:57,680 four ways into like the these kids are generally getting these 1566 01:07:57,690 --> 01:07:59,900 spelling rules wrong or they're at this level of that spelling 1567 01:07:59,910 --> 01:08:03,790 journey and they gonna have real targeted support on that rather 1568 01:08:03,800 --> 01:08:06,910 than you trying to do for levels of targeted support in the same 1569 01:08:06,920 --> 01:08:10,070 time in a lesson without wasting anyone's time very very very 1570 01:08:10,080 --> 01:08:11,530 hard to do. Can I can I leave this 1571 01:08:11,540 --> 01:08:13,450 conversation? I know we times getting on. 1572 01:08:13,460 --> 01:08:17,529 We've just one example of where streaming has worked for me. 1573 01:08:17,939 --> 01:08:21,040 Just a real life example from last year, a couple years ago, I 1574 01:08:21,050 --> 01:08:23,760 can't remember now, but I'm just thinking of of this. 1575 01:08:23,770 --> 01:08:27,140 This child came to mind when I was talking earlier and we were 1576 01:08:27,149 --> 01:08:32,390 in maths and in this particular cohort we had one set that we 1577 01:08:32,399 --> 01:08:35,210 pulled out for the basically the top sort of 32 children because 1578 01:08:35,220 --> 01:08:38,300 they were our data was really interesting, it was very split 1579 01:08:38,310 --> 01:08:40,620 and we had a lot of children working at a really high level 1580 01:08:40,890 --> 01:08:44,069 and a quite a big gap and a lot of children working sort of near 1581 01:08:44,080 --> 01:08:46,520 expected and we were like OK that's interesting, let's let's 1582 01:08:46,529 --> 01:08:49,090 target those children separately and these children separately. 1583 01:08:49,100 --> 01:08:51,590 So we had two sets basically across the year we mixed. 1584 01:08:51,640 --> 01:08:53,370 We had four teachers, so we mixed it like that. 1585 01:08:55,180 --> 01:08:58,790 And there's one one child that I was teaching in in my set and I 1586 01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:02,069 was and I had the the higher set at this point because I've done 1587 01:09:02,080 --> 01:09:06,350 multiple sets across the years. And I notice from my teachers, 1588 01:09:06,479 --> 01:09:08,670 my teacher assessment of them in general, that they were 1589 01:09:08,680 --> 01:09:12,649 generally struggling to keep up with the rest of the class 1590 01:09:13,100 --> 01:09:15,410 because of the the lack of sort of foundational skills. 1591 01:09:15,420 --> 01:09:18,540 Had a lot of gaps earlier on that were quite hard to plug 1592 01:09:18,550 --> 01:09:20,260 with the content and pace we were going out in that 1593 01:09:20,270 --> 01:09:22,000 particular set. But obviously I tried really 1594 01:09:22,010 --> 01:09:24,790 hard to do that for that child. And then we did a second set of 1595 01:09:24,800 --> 01:09:29,470 tests and and everyone made progress apart from this child. 1596 01:09:29,660 --> 01:09:34,040 And at that point I was like ah if this is this is where 1597 01:09:34,050 --> 01:09:36,729 fluidity of sets comes in really handy and I had a conversation 1598 01:09:36,740 --> 01:09:41,779 with this child and another teacher and they wanted to go to 1599 01:09:41,790 --> 01:09:43,850 a different class not because it was a lower set. 1600 01:09:43,859 --> 01:09:46,380 We never used the language of this is a lower set it's just 1601 01:09:46,390 --> 01:09:48,779 ohh in this set you know you struggle with these things quite 1602 01:09:48,790 --> 01:09:50,960 a bit and and obviously trying to help you they're doing loads 1603 01:09:50,970 --> 01:09:52,710 of that in this class do you want do you wanna go and join 1604 01:09:52,720 --> 01:09:54,020 them? Ohh yes please. 1605 01:09:54,069 --> 01:09:56,510 Went to this other class generally way happier now 1606 01:09:56,520 --> 01:09:58,620 because I think I actually think looking back on reflection they 1607 01:09:58,630 --> 01:10:01,140 were maybe getting a bit stressed in in my class because 1608 01:10:01,150 --> 01:10:03,540 we were working at a different pace much much happier in the 1609 01:10:03,550 --> 01:10:05,280 other class. Ended up making loads of 1610 01:10:05,290 --> 01:10:09,880 progress then after that, and I don't know, I just I thought 1611 01:10:09,890 --> 01:10:13,070 that was a good example of where streaming can be done right, but 1612 01:10:13,080 --> 01:10:16,500 it's so easily shows how it could be done completely wrong, 1613 01:10:16,510 --> 01:10:18,170 which is where the research is totally right. 1614 01:10:18,240 --> 01:10:21,620 If I didn't recognise that that that child needed to move, they 1615 01:10:21,630 --> 01:10:24,100 might have just been stagnating in that class, getting stressed, 1616 01:10:24,910 --> 01:10:26,640 maybe not making as much focus as they could. 1617 01:10:26,690 --> 01:10:29,340 So it was like a an example of both, both ends of the world. 1618 01:10:29,350 --> 01:10:30,750 I think it can be done correctly. 1619 01:10:30,790 --> 01:10:32,860 I think it can be very done very poorly as well. 1620 01:10:33,190 --> 01:10:36,060 But you do have to react to the needs and ability of the 1621 01:10:36,070 --> 01:10:38,930 children if you don't do it that way and you just have blankets 1622 01:10:38,940 --> 01:10:41,190 so they will just get put in, That's where it goes completely 1623 01:10:41,200 --> 01:10:44,310 wrong in my opinion. So anyway, no absolute 1624 01:10:44,320 --> 01:10:46,480 controversial. No, no, I think it's very 1625 01:10:46,490 --> 01:10:47,730 interesting. It's very interesting. 1626 01:10:47,740 --> 01:10:51,350 And I think you know there's there's enough people who still 1627 01:10:51,360 --> 01:10:55,420 set, there's enough people, right, who go as far as they 1628 01:10:55,430 --> 01:10:56,910 can. They they do mix, they do mix, 1629 01:10:56,920 --> 01:10:58,770 they do mix. And then at the last hurdle like 1630 01:10:58,780 --> 01:11:00,810 Ohh, let's just set, let's just set. 1631 01:11:01,160 --> 01:11:04,650 And it's because I think we know deep down that we can target 1632 01:11:04,660 --> 01:11:05,870 children in a different way when we set. 1633 01:11:05,880 --> 01:11:09,720 And and also for me, you know, they get a bit older in 1634 01:11:09,730 --> 01:11:11,810 secondary school, they get set immediately. 1635 01:11:11,820 --> 01:11:13,490 I think. I think it can be done right. 1636 01:11:13,500 --> 01:11:16,360 I think a big big battle on our solid shoulders to make sure 1637 01:11:16,370 --> 01:11:18,700 that children aren't feeling bad about it. 1638 01:11:18,710 --> 01:11:21,120 I think that's something that is like you said has to be at the 1639 01:11:21,130 --> 01:11:23,260 forefront of anyone's mind if you're gonna go down this road 1640 01:11:23,270 --> 01:11:26,400 of setting and and not letting anyone stay behind. 1641 01:11:26,410 --> 01:11:28,480 But that's part of the job. You don't let anyone get left 1642 01:11:28,490 --> 01:11:31,040 behind anyway. Do you like that We're not going 1643 01:11:31,050 --> 01:11:33,040 to we're going to actually let children get left behind. 1644 01:11:33,050 --> 01:11:35,060 And if it's not working be reactive. 1645 01:11:35,130 --> 01:11:39,100 And like I said, I think not having a predetermined this is 1646 01:11:39,110 --> 01:11:42,780 what we do in this school, whether or not the children do 1647 01:11:42,790 --> 01:11:46,100 well or whatever, whether it's no, we do this because we're 1648 01:11:46,110 --> 01:11:47,840 this go. Right to the children. 1649 01:11:47,850 --> 01:11:49,260 Put things in place for them. That's it. 1650 01:11:49,270 --> 01:11:52,010 Simple as. Right, guys, we we finished an 1651 01:11:52,020 --> 01:11:54,090 episode with no cuts. We're gonna finish right there 1652 01:11:54,100 --> 01:11:55,820 because we've we've blabbed on, haven't we? 1653 01:11:56,130 --> 01:11:57,890 We've got anything else you wanted to say before we finished 1654 01:11:57,900 --> 01:12:00,300 Hatem? Alright, well just off topic to 1655 01:12:00,310 --> 01:12:02,540 be fair, I'm sure we can talk about all day, but didn't you 1656 01:12:02,550 --> 01:12:05,380 have a little plug for our Instagram stories? 1657 01:12:05,510 --> 01:12:09,710 To see, Yeah, so firstly I wanted just to mention we were 1658 01:12:09,720 --> 01:12:12,520 talking. I did an Instagram post the 1659 01:12:12,530 --> 01:12:15,600 other day, a quick poll which was saying that right poll, 1660 01:12:15,670 --> 01:12:18,200 poll, poll. I think it's Poel. 1661 01:12:18,350 --> 01:12:19,500 Poll. Poll. 1662 01:12:19,830 --> 01:12:22,820 I did a poll and it was just basically asking what people, 1663 01:12:22,930 --> 01:12:25,950 what setting they work in because we get a whole range of 1664 01:12:25,960 --> 01:12:29,220 people following us on Instagram closing in on 3000 followers now 1665 01:12:29,290 --> 01:12:31,860 and I wanna just to know who are they? 1666 01:12:31,930 --> 01:12:33,450 Is it no or no? I don't know. 1667 01:12:33,460 --> 01:12:37,210 Anyway, so 73% of our followers work in a primary school as 1668 01:12:37,220 --> 01:12:39,160 expected, but probably a bit lower than I thought, maybe 1669 01:12:39,170 --> 01:12:41,680 because we obviously, you know, very much centred on primary 1670 01:12:41,690 --> 01:12:45,880 school, 14% work in secondary school, 8% don't work in either 1671 01:12:45,890 --> 01:12:49,600 of those, but still work in education and 5% don't work in 1672 01:12:49,610 --> 01:12:51,610 education whatsoever. They just follow us for the 1673 01:12:51,620 --> 01:12:53,090 laughs. Maybe there are mates or just 1674 01:12:53,100 --> 01:12:55,530 some random people who've come along for the ride. 1675 01:12:55,580 --> 01:12:58,370 But I got a message of someone because quite a few of the 1676 01:12:58,380 --> 01:13:01,540 people who said neither but in education message to say what 1677 01:13:01,550 --> 01:13:03,690 they would, what they do essentially. 1678 01:13:03,820 --> 01:13:06,810 And someone messaged in and they were just talking about their 1679 01:13:06,820 --> 01:13:11,890 provision and they give Sen provision for people 16 and 1680 01:13:11,900 --> 01:13:13,390 over. And I was like, oh, that's 1681 01:13:13,400 --> 01:13:15,990 really because you know they can you hear a lot about them kind 1682 01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:18,810 of, you know going off the edge of a Cliff in terms of the 1683 01:13:18,820 --> 01:13:20,350 support given to them. It's like, oh, you get there. 1684 01:13:20,360 --> 01:13:21,110 Bye. OK. 1685 01:13:21,150 --> 01:13:24,400 So there are amazing people doing work and it just, it 1686 01:13:24,410 --> 01:13:26,940 really piqued my interest because they were talking about 1687 01:13:26,950 --> 01:13:28,260 the kind of things they planned for them. 1688 01:13:28,270 --> 01:13:32,780 And it's this whole debate about how, you know, formal education 1689 01:13:32,790 --> 01:13:34,720 should be in general. Because I think in these 1690 01:13:34,730 --> 01:13:37,200 settings it's very normal to not sit and do. 1691 01:13:37,290 --> 01:13:39,500 We're going to do geometry, then afterwards we're going to do the 1692 01:13:39,510 --> 01:13:41,440 chemical reaction to the bonds. That's not, that's not what 1693 01:13:41,450 --> 01:13:43,920 these people need because they also have a bunch of people who 1694 01:13:43,930 --> 01:13:46,220 maybe have been excluded from school and they kind of take 1695 01:13:46,230 --> 01:13:49,480 them in before they're even 16. So they're just explaining these 1696 01:13:49,490 --> 01:13:50,650 things they have in place for them. 1697 01:13:50,690 --> 01:13:53,080 You know across the next turn they're going to be doing things 1698 01:13:53,090 --> 01:13:57,360 like how to, you know, properly wire plug sockets. 1699 01:13:57,610 --> 01:14:00,420 You know, they they live on they their schools on a farmyard 1700 01:14:00,430 --> 01:14:02,790 where they can go and see the winery and stuff like that. 1701 01:14:02,800 --> 01:14:06,040 You know, look it was just all of this amazing like real life 1702 01:14:06,050 --> 01:14:09,760 stuff and I was just thinking we miss a trick, don't we? 1703 01:14:09,770 --> 01:14:13,700 And and what I found was lovely speaking to this person because 1704 01:14:13,910 --> 01:14:16,620 it's, it broadens your horizons. I think we can get stuck, can't 1705 01:14:16,630 --> 01:14:18,980 we Hayden? Sometimes in we go to primary 1706 01:14:18,990 --> 01:14:21,880 school, maths, English, science, maths, English, geography and 1707 01:14:21,890 --> 01:14:24,120 and it's that wider thing we talked about earlier of OK, you 1708 01:14:24,130 --> 01:14:26,870 know, all of these things been talking about realistically this 1709 01:14:26,880 --> 01:14:28,990 is all for academic attainment. This is all for, you know, 1710 01:14:29,000 --> 01:14:30,480 results. At the end of the day, yeah, 1711 01:14:30,490 --> 01:14:32,920 that's our job really, really paid. 1712 01:14:32,930 --> 01:14:34,640 What would you say our job is? Really. 1713 01:14:34,810 --> 01:14:36,560 Just get kids ready to be grown-ups. 1714 01:14:36,850 --> 01:14:39,480 That's it. And then for society, what this 1715 01:14:39,490 --> 01:14:41,860 person was doing was fantastic. So do you guys get in touch with 1716 01:14:41,870 --> 01:14:45,200 us and teach the repeat podcast, Let us know what you do and also 1717 01:14:45,210 --> 01:14:47,540 let us know if you disagree or agree with anything or what you 1718 01:14:47,550 --> 01:14:49,100 want to hear in the future. Because, yeah, it's. 1719 01:14:49,110 --> 01:14:51,500 I want to hear all about it. We normally, you know I we 1720 01:14:51,510 --> 01:14:54,330 normally generally go with the sort of general consensus and 1721 01:14:54,340 --> 01:14:56,790 research. But I do feel like I'm this 1722 01:14:56,800 --> 01:14:58,770 group of a little bit today. Hopefully my points came across 1723 01:14:58,780 --> 01:15:01,590 clearly I hope you don't think that I just think setting is 1724 01:15:01,600 --> 01:15:04,500 better that's not not the model. I didn't get the impression that 1725 01:15:04,510 --> 01:15:07,520 a hybrid hybrid element that we missed a few topics maybe we'll 1726 01:15:07,530 --> 01:15:11,310 talk about in the future though. We didn't really talk about a 1727 01:15:11,580 --> 01:15:13,050 specific type of differentiation, like 1728 01:15:13,060 --> 01:15:15,570 differentiation, differentiation for children with special 1729 01:15:15,580 --> 01:15:18,450 educational needs or yeah, English as additional language. 1730 01:15:19,100 --> 01:15:21,810 But maybe we can catch up with. That and I know you feel poorly, 1731 01:15:21,820 --> 01:15:25,440 Hayden, Before we go in for over an hour, you start this podcast 1732 01:15:25,450 --> 01:15:27,010 off for saying, can we just do a short one today? 1733 01:15:27,020 --> 01:15:27,860 I don't feel great. Yeah. 1734 01:15:27,910 --> 01:15:29,870 Yeah, that's me. And then naturally I probably 1735 01:15:29,880 --> 01:15:32,690 spoke for about 80% of that, so. That was nice. 1736 01:15:32,740 --> 01:15:34,800 I rest my other tables have. Turned. 1737 01:15:35,020 --> 01:15:37,170 I'm gonna finish off with one little funny story. 1738 01:15:37,180 --> 01:15:41,720 We got a message from excuse me, I got a message from an act who 1739 01:15:41,730 --> 01:15:45,300 is catching up with the podcast. I've been listening bit behind 1740 01:15:45,310 --> 01:15:48,170 but nearly caught up now should say hello and she just asked 1741 01:15:48,180 --> 01:15:51,540 about a recent thing we mentioned on a podcast that game 1742 01:15:51,550 --> 01:15:54,520 where we fill in the gaps, so we fill in the gaps in the story 1743 01:15:55,190 --> 01:15:57,920 and it was called Adlibs I think, wasn't it Where you say 1744 01:15:57,930 --> 01:16:00,120 to the children, give me now, give me a proper noun, give me a 1745 01:16:00,130 --> 01:16:01,920 conjunction and you practise GPS. 1746 01:16:02,310 --> 01:16:05,600 We chat about that and she just finished off with a little story 1747 01:16:05,610 --> 01:16:07,490 and I'll leave her with this story Aiden, because it made me 1748 01:16:07,500 --> 01:16:11,000 laugh. She was in a year two class and 1749 01:16:11,010 --> 01:16:14,530 one of the children she'd shared that she'd met her uncle's new 1750 01:16:14,540 --> 01:16:17,470 girlfriend and her uncle's new girlfriend was from China. 1751 01:16:17,540 --> 01:16:18,790 So that was that was fascinating. 1752 01:16:18,800 --> 01:16:21,130 By asking her all about that, you know, finding out more 1753 01:16:21,140 --> 01:16:23,330 about, you know, her new uncle's girlfriend. 1754 01:16:23,340 --> 01:16:25,410 How brilliant. So this girl came into school in 1755 01:16:25,420 --> 01:16:28,650 year two, and from then on declared to everyone that she's 1756 01:16:28,660 --> 01:16:31,130 now Chinese, and proceeded to spend the rest of the year 1757 01:16:31,140 --> 01:16:34,550 answering the afternoon register in Chinese from now on. 1758 01:16:35,470 --> 01:16:38,270 I love that kids minds, man, are so good, I said. 1759 01:16:38,280 --> 01:16:39,720 What do you mean? What do you mean? 1760 01:16:39,730 --> 01:16:41,350 That's not how it works? Of course it is. 1761 01:16:41,420 --> 01:16:43,870 I'm Chinese. You're the start. 1762 01:16:43,880 --> 01:16:46,300 This episode started in Spanish or whatever you did. 1763 01:16:46,480 --> 01:16:48,050 What you mean I think you still hallucinating, mate? 1764 01:16:48,060 --> 01:16:49,160 I think you still hasn't. Lost. 1765 01:16:49,170 --> 01:16:50,140 I think I need to go back to bed. 1766 01:16:50,150 --> 01:16:51,290 Honest with you? Yeah, yeah. 1767 01:16:51,300 --> 01:16:53,010 OK, Alright. Have you got any stories? 1768 01:16:53,020 --> 01:16:55,020 Please do write in. No, no, no. 1769 01:16:55,030 --> 01:16:55,790 You've done it again. Right. 1770 01:16:55,800 --> 01:16:57,590 Listen, I'm sorry you have to go off. 1771 01:16:57,790 --> 01:17:00,320 This is not good at this. Normally, I'm fed up with this. 1772 01:17:00,900 --> 01:17:02,600 If you've got any stories guys, please do write them in. 1773 01:17:02,610 --> 01:17:04,570 We'd love to revitalise our little stories from the 1774 01:17:04,580 --> 01:17:07,180 classroom segment, but we need stories to tell for that. 1775 01:17:07,230 --> 01:17:09,660 So yeah, if you got anything funny, let us know. 1776 01:17:09,670 --> 01:17:11,090 What problem Hayden? Ohh. 1777 01:17:11,130 --> 01:17:13,820 Slight problem. Only three people actually get 1778 01:17:13,830 --> 01:17:16,740 this far in the podcast ever. So we're talking to your mum 1779 01:17:16,750 --> 01:17:18,360 now. We need to do it at the start. 1780 01:17:18,990 --> 01:17:20,280 Need to do at the start. Yeah. 1781 01:17:20,290 --> 01:17:22,360 Alright. Well, see you later, Mum. 1782 01:17:23,330 --> 01:17:23,880 Where she? Yeah. 1783 01:17:23,890 --> 01:17:25,820 What's for dinner tonight? We'll talk about later. 1784 01:17:25,830 --> 01:17:27,010 Alright guys. See ya.