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Hello everyone, and welcome back
to another episode of Teach the 

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Repeats. 
My name is Dylan. 

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And my name is Hayden and. 
Whether you are on the way to 

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work or simply listening whilst 
you're on a walk, on a little 

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run, maybe you're at the gym, 
maybe just at home chilling, 

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listening to this podcast, we 
are back. 

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We are ready to chat. 
All things behaviour today, but 

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you had something you want. 
To say, there's a quick thing I 

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wanted to say and I thought 
you'd be interested in this 

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because it kind of indicates you
a little. 

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Bit I'm used to be vindicating. 
Boost your ego so therefore you 

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don't know what. 
Let me cock my ear, boost my ego

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please. 
Like such an idiot. 

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You're also still coining the 
blanket from from the last 

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episode that we just recorded. 
Because from days before, 

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there's still no radio slash. 
Literally minutes to turn 

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around. 
And it's colder, yeah. 

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Anyway, so I don't know if you 
saw recently, but the DfE have 

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come out and said, and this very
much backs up what we said 

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Bridget Phillipson was talking 
about when we went to Bet right,

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talking about AI tools. 
Everything's about AI at the 

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moment. 
And they're saying that AI tools

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and AI tutors in in in 
particular could level the 

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playing field by providing up to
450,000 disadvantaged pupils 

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access by the end of 2027. 
I don't know if you saw that 

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article, but I thought it was 
very interesting because two 

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weeks ago we had a discussion 
and we very much argued about AI

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replacing teachers and how 
everything at BET was very much 

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like AI is so good. 
Yeah. 

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And even Bridget Phillipson and,
and the government in general, 

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like, yeah, AI is so good, why 
replace you teachers? 

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Are you teachers are 
irreplaceable. 

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However, however, we are 
investing money in AI tutors, 

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which by definition, by 
definition is doing the role of 

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a teacher. 
Oh yeah, or a tutor even like, 

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which often is a. 
Teacher of course. 

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Exactly right and because they 
are realistically talking about 

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in school use as well. 
So I don't know, I just thought 

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it was interesting. 
Schools week had a little 

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article on it and basically 
there was just a bunch of 

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experts in this in various 
different roles across education

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saying it's all right idea. 
But like AI is still in its 

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infancy when it when it comes to
like something as complex as 

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actually teaching a child like 
new concepts and things and and 

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being being the role of a 
teacher. 

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So I just thought I would bring 
it up because I was sat here 

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saying there's no way in 100 
years we're going to see of. 

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Course, we will. 
Is anyone is shocked by this. 

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What are you talking about? 
I'm not even. 

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Again, I'm gonna say right now 
I'm not even going on the good 

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or bad side. 
I'm not even. 

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But. 
But what I'm saying is that it 

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is obviously a fact that this 
will happen. 

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Yeah. 
We can see already that there is

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an appetite for people in charge
to be putting this in front of 

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our children and it happening 
right even before we're ready to

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do it. 
So when we had the conversation 

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previously, which was me saying,
yeah, but this will happen 

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because it will come down to 
basically the nerve of the 

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humans in large of making these 
decisions. 

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It will come down to their 
nerve. 

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When it looks like this is both 
cheaper and better, yeah, of 

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course they're going to do it. 
That was my point. 

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Of course it will happen. 
It's even happening now when 

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it's not better. 
It's not better now than a 

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teacher most of the time, right?
But it is cheaper and it is 

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going to give people a leg up 
and it's going to be provided as

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an additional right. 
So all of these, all of that 

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context is really important 
because I'm absolutely not 

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saying that what they are 
suggesting here is replacing 

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teachers right now. 
OK, so I'm not saying that 

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before anyone says they're not 
replacing teachers now, I know 

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they're not. 
But is this not one of the 

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clearest indications ever of a 
path you can see happening where

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where what I said is going to 
happen? 

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Like I couldn't be more sure 
what I said is going to happen 

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and it and it's not because of 
any other reason. 

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And then it just, it is just the
logical way of things going. 

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Like I just, I cannot say it 
will. 

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It will simply come down to 
someone choosing a more 

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expensive option of actual 
humans doing it and training 

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them up and getting to the point
of doing it. 

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If if the will is there to keep 
that happening, then fine, but 

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it obviously won't be. 
We live in a capitalistic 

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society where we try and drain 
every single cent out of every 

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single person. 
Of course, this will end up 

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being the norm. 
I thought I just yeah, basically

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I thought it was interesting 
because it very much is the 

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beginning of that path. 
It really isn't it. 

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That's the logical conclusion. 
This would if I was to design 

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the pathway to AI replacing 
teachers, this is probably where

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I start little interventiony 
things, helping out, finding a 

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little niche problem that it can
it can help solve. 

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It's OK, actually teachers don't
have maybe enough a breadth of 

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understanding and knowledge to 
help these particular group of 

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children, whereas this AI can be
trained in everything and and 

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actually we can help solve this 
problem better. 

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Everyone goes, OK, we can't 
really argue with that. 

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What's your like without 
catastrophizing and 

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exaggerating? 
Just just genuinely, you know, 

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grounded opinion on this. 
What what do you actually think 

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of the idea of using a bit of AI
to help some kids in one to one 

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tutoring in schools? 
Do you think there is like 

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actually some good from? 
This 100%, yeah, yeah, 

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completely. 
It's it's a good tool to use, 

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right? 
Yeah. 

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And again, in my version of 
events where I'm like, you know,

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it could be labelled as 
catastrophizing or going over 

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the top saying everything's 
awful. 

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I very clearly did state I'm not
saying it's good or bad because 

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in my definition is that 
eventually it will be better. 

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I also that's a very unpopular 
opinion as well. 

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I'm kind of pissing off both 
people in, in this regard 

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because what I'm saying is like,
you know, people who really want

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AI to come in and, and be a 
force for good. 

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I'm saying just slow down. 
It's not necessarily always 

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going to be the best thing in 
the world. 

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And actually just especially not
right this second. 

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It's not quite there yet. 
But also people who are saying 

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like, teachers should never, 
ever, ever be replaced. 

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We shouldn't use any AI at all. 
Like, honestly, what's wrong 

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with you? 
Of course we should. 

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Of course there will be things 
that AI will be better than a 

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human app. 
And there are some people who 

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don't hear that ever. 
They're like, no, a human is 

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always better because of these 
reasons. 

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At some point that won't be 
true. 

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I'm sorry, it won't be true. 
At some point. 

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We don't want to go back into 
everything we spoke about last 

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time going listen to the episode
all about AI and education. 

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At some point that won't be 
true. 

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Right now, there are some things
that AI is better at than humans

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and there are lots of things 
that humans are better at than 

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AI. 
And I would not say just let it 

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loose in front of the kids right
now and it'll be fantastic in 

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all respects. 
Has to be controlled, has to be 

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alongside humans, has to be 
alongside teachers and experts, 

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absolutely. 
But there is obvious see a role 

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for this where it can hit 
targeted intervention to 

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children who need a boost more 
than other children. 

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Yes, of course it can be a good 
thing the obviously. 

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And announcements like this are 
only going to spur it on more. 

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Do you know what I mean? 
It's just going to get people 

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and Ed tech owners and just 
people that are interested in 

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this field obviously are going 
to get excited by like even 

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myself, right? 
Seeing that announcement and 

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then reading articles around it 
may. 

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But my genuine, genuine reaction
was, OK, so this is clearly 

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happening. 
I can even, I have nothing to do

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with it and just watch it and 
just hope that it works. 

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Or if I had the opportunity, 
would I, would I want to get 

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involved and help curate it? 
Absolutely. 

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And I imagine a lot of teachers 
are thinking, well, if you're 

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going to do it, let's have some 
experts in like at least 

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curating it so we can get it as 
optimised as possible as quickly

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as possible. 
We're not wasting people's time.

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So like, so it's funny how like,
he was straight away, my mind 

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was turning. 
So what was that? 

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Well, OK, I just accept it's 
going to happen. 

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So can I get involved? 
I've noticed a shift in AI in 

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general as well. 
Like I don't think it 

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necessarily means people are 
ignoring the the cons to AI, 

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right? 
But there's definitely been a 

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shift more recently as to it 
being more normalised. 

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And again, I said that as well, 
like I said this months ago, 

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where AI will be ingrained in 
everything we do. 

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Like when you do a Google 
search, AI pops up. 

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There'll be some jokes at the 
start. 

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Some people are not being 
annoyed about it, but eventually

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that'll be completely normal and
we have to learn how and how to 

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live with that and it's going to
be a point of view. 

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I, I used the example of Tesco 
with the self checkouts at the 

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start. 
Those people are very annoyed 

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about it. 
So we need to keep the jobs for 

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these people. 
It's not right. 

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Completely normal. 
Now no one bats an eyelid at the

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being self checkouts. 
That's absolutely normal. 

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But I did a post and I did 
different AI versions of myself 

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photo generation. 
And if I did that post six 

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months ago, there would be 
comments from people complaining

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about the fact it's AI, right? 
Not one comment this time 

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complaining about the fact it 
was AI because it's becoming 

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more normal. 
You can, we can sit and say why 

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that's good or bad all we want 
and that's a separate 

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discussion. 
But the fact I'm trying to say 

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here is it's becoming more 
normalised and you saw it in a 

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group. 
Literally I was, yeah. 

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This whole conversation was 
based around the fact that on a 

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in a Facebook group, I saw 
someone put something very blunt

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and simple. 
Like what? 

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Your favourite AI tools to use 
in school and I was like here we

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go a year ago juicy. 
I know because a year ago that 

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these these posts were existing 
as well and people were just 

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like you just half the comments 
were slating the user and I 

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would never do that with kids. 
It's it's unsafe or immoral or 

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the environmental impact over 
the comments thinking here we go

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see some juicy opinions. 
Literally every single one was 

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just sharing the recommendations
of what they do. 

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I was like, oh, OK, this is 
there's clearly a shift here in 

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in culture and what we accept. 
And does that mean automatically

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all the things we said before 
about AI are now false that the 

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ban? 
No, of course not. 

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But when you know it, I'm sorry 
it is happening. 

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So if if you really vehemently 
against it, all power to you. 

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But it's it's going to be. 
Involved and also like it is 

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just how it works. 
Some of the things you're 

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vehemently against will just 
change and not be a thing 

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anymore. 
That is also true. 

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Like sometimes complaints are 
good because they will change 

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those things and maybe those 
things aren't real anymore. 

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Some of the big ones I'm sure 
are. 

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But anyway, it's interesting. 
My last question on that and 

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then we'll move on is do you 
think AI will ever be as good as

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you predicting the future or is 
it just an ego thing? 

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It'll be better. 
Yeah, it'll be better. 

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Oh, really? 
Wow. 

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
AAI will reach super 

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intelligence and it'll just be 
better. 

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Like, that's just what I think. 
What happened? 

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Yeah, but until it's reached 
super intelligence, it won't be 

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as good as you. 
No, because obviously, Yeah, 

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you're like the run below. 
Down. 

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It's like it's it's like normal 
person, intelligent person. 

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Yeah. 
Artificial intelligence. 

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Yeah. 
Denim price. 

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Super intelligence. 
Yeah. 

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That's kind of. 
I had that in my head, so I'm 

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glad you clarified that because 
that is what I was Sorry. 

229
00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:19,120
Hayden, you're at the floor. 
Yeah, no idea. 

230
00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:20,800
I was not sorry. 
I missed wasn't on that list. 

231
00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:23,640
I started it. 
Yeah, I was pre average person. 

232
00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:25,720
Pre average person, Yeah, yeah, 
that's fair enough. 

233
00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:27,200
That's understandable. 
I appreciate that. 

234
00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:29,080
Anyway, so the main point of 
this episode really is to talk 

235
00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:31,160
about behaviour 'cause I feel 
like it's just a juicy topic. 

236
00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:34,920
I see it coming up a lot online 
in articles, a lot in Group 

237
00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:37,840
chats and also a lot of 
education influences. 

238
00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:40,240
I know you hate that term but 
people that make videos and 

239
00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:41,360
content like. 
Segway. 

240
00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:44,160
Good Segway, by the way. 
Oh yeah, just just, it's a new 

241
00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:45,240
way of doing a Segway, I 
suppose. 

242
00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:47,440
Just start talking about the 
next thing with no link at all. 

243
00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:49,360
Well, yeah, why would? 
Why would you make a link 

244
00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:51,280
between those two things? 
It's funny. 

245
00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:52,680
I found it funny. 
Trying to throw me off. 

246
00:09:52,680 --> 00:09:55,360
I'm the podcast host. 
I'm the podcast host and I can 

247
00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:59,320
segue. 
I think what we'll find today 

248
00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:02,640
with you leading the podcast is 
that comparing a podcast is 

249
00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:04,320
actually a skill that goes under
the radar. 

250
00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:05,600
So let's see how well you do. 
Yeah, definitely. 

251
00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:06,800
Well, let's. 
Just have a conversation show. 

252
00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:08,240
That's what a podcast is, Dylan 
actually. 

253
00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:11,160
Anyways, yeah, I just keep 
seeing it come uploads 

254
00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:13,440
basically. 
People saying Mr P in 

255
00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:15,280
particular, to be fair to him, 
said a lot. 

256
00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:18,920
I think that workload at the 
moment is the number one reason 

257
00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:21,280
teachers will quit. 
But I do think bad behaviour and

258
00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:24,560
poor people behaviour in schools
will overtake that and become 

259
00:10:24,560 --> 00:10:26,160
the number one reason that 
teachers are quit. 

260
00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:28,800
And I always find that fact 
really interesting, that opinion

261
00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,200
really interesting. 
And again, looking on Schools 

262
00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:34,200
Week, there was a study that 
showed that up to 76% of 

263
00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:38,000
teachers reported misbehaviour 
interrupted their lessons in at 

264
00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:42,360
least some classes in May 2023, 
which was up from 64% literally 

265
00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:44,480
a year before. 
So there's clearly a rise in 

266
00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:48,640
teachers also thinking 
behaviours getting worse in in 

267
00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:50,520
schools. 
So I thought, let's talk about 

268
00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:51,880
that. 
Is behaviour getting worse? 

269
00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:53,280
There's loads of things we can 
we can talk about here. 

270
00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:55,760
We can start from, I think it's 
probably good to just compare 

271
00:10:56,640 --> 00:11:00,920
what the general opinion is of 
how kids behave in school now to

272
00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:04,240
how kids behaved in school in 
the past, or at least how we 

273
00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:06,160
think kids behaved in the school
in the past. 

274
00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:09,040
Because I know if I went to 
someone older in my family and I

275
00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:11,080
started having this 
conversation, you know exactly 

276
00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:13,480
what I'd say as well. 
It's going to be Oh well, back 

277
00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:16,200
in my day, kids bloody new out 
of behaviour didn't have any of 

278
00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:18,040
this nonsense. 
All that, if you didn't do as 

279
00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:20,360
you always got, came around the 
end, not came around the end. 

280
00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:22,720
I know. 
I know exactly what family 

281
00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:25,280
member. 
Yeah. 

282
00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:27,720
Yeah, exactly. 
That is like, it's so easy 

283
00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:30,040
sometimes to look back. 
And, you know, we do it a lot. 

284
00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:32,640
You look back and you think, oh,
it was just so much better back 

285
00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:33,440
then. 
It's like, OK. 

286
00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:34,760
Right. 
Listen, rewind. 

287
00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:39,200
If teachers still now could whip
a child around the ear and throw

288
00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:42,120
a bored rubber brick at their 
head when they're misbehaving. 

289
00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:43,920
Right. 
Do you think there might be 

290
00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:45,920
fewer disruptions in class? 
Yeah, probably. 

291
00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:48,400
But do you know what? 
I think we all accept that was a

292
00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:50,000
good move. 
I think it. 

293
00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:54,800
We have to just note the 
difference between the 70s and 

294
00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:57,600
now, right? 
In the 70s, a teacher would 

295
00:11:57,600 --> 00:11:59,560
light up a cigarette at the 
front of the classroom. 

296
00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:01,200
It was a completely different 
one. 

297
00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:04,240
Much better it was. 
So I want to have a pint of beer

298
00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:07,000
at lunchtime, come back and 
light up for my afternoon lesson

299
00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:08,440
while the kids do a bit of art, 
all right? 

300
00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,400
It's all I want in life, The 
reason I quit. 

301
00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:13,920
I was gutted when I. 
Have a bloody lovely IPA at the 

302
00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:15,160
end of the day. 
And I thought what? 

303
00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:17,680
I can't do that anymore. 
But here's here's the overall 

304
00:12:17,680 --> 00:12:20,760
point I'm making here. 
It's kind of unhelpful to do 

305
00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:22,600
that. 
And I think usually it just 

306
00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:26,880
people have their own opinion 
already and then use that to 

307
00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:29,000
express it. 
So they'll already think kids 

308
00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,960
these days are up to no good and
they'll just go back in my day, 

309
00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:33,720
we had respect for it and that's
what happened. 

310
00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:36,800
And now look at them now. 
It's not actually based on any 

311
00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:38,200
kind of critical thinking 
whatsoever. 

312
00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:42,000
So I think it's, I do think it's
important that what is more 

313
00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:45,560
interesting to me is even just 
looking at it in the scale of 

314
00:12:45,680 --> 00:12:48,480
like the last 10 years. 
Yeah, that's more interesting to

315
00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:50,840
me because there's not such an 
obvious difference. 

316
00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:53,120
Sure, in terms of like culture 
and time period. 

317
00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:55,320
What's happened in what's 
happening in five years? 

318
00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:57,360
You can look at the COVID 
pandemics, a big thing that 

319
00:12:57,560 --> 00:13:00,400
accelerated BITS. 
But like I find that more useful

320
00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:04,040
in figuring out why. 
If it feels like people who do 

321
00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:07,280
them, they're macro kind of 
comparisons and they're just 

322
00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:09,200
making the point like kids these
days are useless. 

323
00:13:09,560 --> 00:13:11,320
Very often they're not actually 
trying to have a conversation 

324
00:13:11,560 --> 00:13:14,480
because they'll be, they're just
moaning or saying how much 

325
00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:15,800
better they are. 
Yeah, exactly that. 

326
00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,880
So I guess so the overall the 
big question here is like this 

327
00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:21,160
is what I feel like people, are 
you ever saying yes or no to? 

328
00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:26,520
Do you think that children have 
just become worse at being able 

329
00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:27,600
to behave? 
Yeah. 

330
00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:29,120
Do you like just do you think 
that's true? 

331
00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:31,320
Do you think children are just 
worse at behaving now? 

332
00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:32,680
It's. 
Not just, but I do think so. 

333
00:13:32,680 --> 00:13:34,040
Yeah. 
Do you know what I mean that so,

334
00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:35,560
so that so there has been a 
decline there. 

335
00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:39,360
Do you do you think that is 
simply because I'm just trying 

336
00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:41,440
to squash the conversations that
I'd have with these these people

337
00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:42,360
I'm imagining in my head right 
now? 

338
00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:45,320
Do you think that's simply 
because kids are just born worse

339
00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:46,320
now? 
They don't have to behave 

340
00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:48,320
because I feel like that is what
people are trying to say. 

341
00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:49,760
Yeah. 
Or something's going wrong. 

342
00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,080
Yeah. 
Kids, I was not sure this in my 

343
00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:53,480
day. 
Yeah, probably did. 

344
00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,080
I didn't have the vaccination. 
Oh my God, don't. 

345
00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:57,800
Honestly don't. 
But people say that and I 

346
00:13:57,800 --> 00:13:59,360
thought, I know it sounds dumb 
to talk about it on this 

347
00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,000
podcast, but like we have to 
just address it because it's 

348
00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:03,920
clearly not that. 
So that which allows us to open 

349
00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:06,160
up a real conversation, which is
OK, What? 

350
00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:08,320
What is it then? 
What are the factors? 

351
00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:11,000
Because statistically, behaviour
is worse. 

352
00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:13,840
Yeah, yeah, 100% behaviour is 
worse. 

353
00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:17,080
It's a fact. 
So this is what I mean when you 

354
00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:20,000
say behaviour is worse and then 
someone asks, so are kids worse 

355
00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:24,000
behaved than before? 
It's like, well, obviously like 

356
00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:26,520
like yes, of course. 
What the are you on about? 

357
00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:28,880
Like clear, I'm sorry I'm giving
you some market, but what? 

358
00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:32,320
Like what do you mean? 
Of course they are worse, but 

359
00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:34,400
it's like people are so scared 
to say that. 

360
00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:36,000
Yeah, it kind of annoys me the 
other way. 

361
00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:37,920
Do you know, I've just said how 
it annoys me people in the 80s 

362
00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:39,720
saying back in mind the kids 
these days are useless. 

363
00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:42,080
That annoys me. 
Do you also annoys me. 

364
00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:43,600
Oh, don't say anything about 
them though. 

365
00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:46,320
Kids can't do anything wrong. 
If they do something wrong, it's

366
00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:48,480
always just because of an 
external force and it's just on 

367
00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:50,600
them and it's just a way of 
communicating and actually we 

368
00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:53,360
should be really understanding. 
I've always done off. 

369
00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:55,920
No, it's not Also, no, I'm 
giving me edits. 

370
00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:58,880
Sorry, sorry. 
I'm really sorry, but but also 

371
00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:00,880
that I'm like, that's not 
helpful sometimes as well. 

372
00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,120
Yeah, look, I'll give you an 
example really quickly just to 

373
00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:05,560
make my point. 
We, I did a a reel the other day

374
00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:08,360
and often we'll do like a meme, 
like it's just like someone 

375
00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:10,720
talking and it's like when 
you've run out of glue sticks, 

376
00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,280
it's someone crying. 
Yeah, it's a meme, Yeah. 

377
00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:15,240
So here's. 
Here's 1 meme I did, and I'll 

378
00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:16,600
get you to guess what someone 
might have said. 

379
00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:21,240
OK, so the meme was when you've 
explained something five times, 

380
00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:24,720
done a structured example on the
board, done some examples 

381
00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:27,360
together in their books and 
given them a worksheet with some

382
00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:29,840
scaffolding. 
And then a child still says, oh,

383
00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,120
I don't know what I'm doing. 
And the person that in the meme 

384
00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:36,320
is going, oh, I just, I just, I 
just don't know, like what what 

385
00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:37,960
am I supposed to do? 
Right? 

386
00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:39,880
That was the meme and it was 
sorry. 

387
00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:42,560
The caption was when a child 
decides not to listen. 

388
00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:45,320
OK, OK, I know exactly what it's
going to be. 

389
00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:49,800
We'll sum it along the lines of 
not all children get to decide 

390
00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:50,760
whether they're listening or 
not. 

391
00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:53,840
There's maybe there's some Sen 
going on and you've not factored

392
00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:55,400
it in. 
You're such a horrible teacher 

393
00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:58,640
that doesn't consider these 
children that don't fall in the 

394
00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:00,840
normal range of behaviours. 
Or normal. 

395
00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:03,880
Oh, don't say that. 
Yeah, so the the comment was 

396
00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:07,960
really smarmy and was like, 
considering I saw a real 

397
00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:11,280
recently about ADHD and how 
you're soaked in understanding 

398
00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:14,520
about it, it makes me really 
think this is very judge mental 

399
00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:19,560
to put this out there. 
And I was I replied going ha ha,

400
00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:22,040
yeah, nearly as judgmental as 
assuming this is about a child 

401
00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:27,080
of ADHD, which having watched my
content before, it clearly isn't

402
00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:30,000
like you're in a position more 
than anyone to understand that 

403
00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:32,560
I'm not talking about a kid with
ADHD. 

404
00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:33,640
Stop. 
No, I'm sorry. 

405
00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:35,640
That is so funny because like, 
clearly. 

406
00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:36,720
Yeah, click. 
Click you. 

407
00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:40,040
I was like, oh, you've you've 
watched the video that proves 

408
00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:42,960
it's clearly not about it and 
you still think that you what 

409
00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:44,760
are you? 
And I also said the kid who 

410
00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:48,360
decides to not listen, I don't 
think children of ADHD are 

411
00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:50,200
deciding anything. 
So it's obviously not about kid 

412
00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:52,600
of ADHD. 
But you're suggesting it's 

413
00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,800
impossible for a child to ever 
decide not to listen. 

414
00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:57,240
And that's, that's the point I'm
making. 

415
00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:58,120
That's what I'm not. 
Exactly. 

416
00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:00,880
When someone says no, no, no, 
it's never the child's fault. 

417
00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:02,680
There's always an underlying 
reason behind it. 

418
00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:04,119
Yeah. 
No, there isn't. 

419
00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:06,880
Yeah, sometimes kids are just 
being really annoying and badly 

420
00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:08,880
behaved and they need 
consequences. 

421
00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:11,720
Yeah, it's so funny that even in
that made-up example, that's a 

422
00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:14,760
made-up child that we're all 
imagining in this real to relate

423
00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:18,280
to, they still excuse that it's 
made-up child that we've told 

424
00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:21,599
you is to say we've told you in 
the words this made-up child has

425
00:17:21,599 --> 00:17:24,480
decided to behave this way. 
So you by definition, they don't

426
00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:26,319
have this. 
You've just given them ADHD. 

427
00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:30,240
It's made-up. 
What are you talking about? 

428
00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:31,600
It's a middle-aged man saying 
this. 

429
00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:34,800
I find it really judgmental that
you think a 48 year old man is 

430
00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:36,800
in a year three class. 
I don't. 

431
00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:40,480
I don't think that it's a meme. 
You just get in the beats. 

432
00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:43,680
I'm sorry for the beats guys. 
And it's just ridiculous. 

433
00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:44,800
I'll stop. 
I'll stop the spray now. 

434
00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:47,640
But I feel really strongly about
it because, you know, it's 

435
00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:49,080
really easy on one side. 
Like it. 

436
00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:51,160
Do you know what I'd say? 
It's like shooting fish in a 

437
00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:53,320
barrel to moan about the old 
people who say back in Mordo. 

438
00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:56,040
Everyone thinks that. 
But I do think there's a group 

439
00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:58,040
of people still who listen to 
what I just said and be like, Oh

440
00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:00,320
no, that's really mean. 
You can't say that. 

441
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:03,960
Well, I can, and it's nonsense. 
There are some kids that are 

442
00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:06,920
choosing to behave badly because
it's easier to. 

443
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:08,760
Because they don't want to do 
the work. 

444
00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:11,000
I was a kid sometimes I was 
going to say, do you know how I 

445
00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:13,160
know that? 
It's because I was that kid so 

446
00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:16,480
often. 
I constantly, constantly chose 

447
00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,920
whether I was going to be nice 
to someone because I fancied it 

448
00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:22,760
or whether I was going to be. 
And you had to learn a little 

449
00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:25,520
shit genuinely. 
And I was a little shit to 

450
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:27,280
plenty of people. 
And do I regret it? 

451
00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:29,120
Yeah. 
Because now I know you're older,

452
00:18:29,120 --> 00:18:31,160
but would you, would it have 
been worse if a teacher didn't 

453
00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:32,800
call you out on it? 
Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. 

454
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:34,640
There must be a reason you're 
saying this kind of stuff. 

455
00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,320
It would be much worse if a kid,
much worse if A and a teacher 

456
00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:39,720
just said, oh, he must have ADHD
and now let's excuse him. 

457
00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:43,400
Everything firstly to give me a 
diagnosis I don't have and then 

458
00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:45,600
also give me free rein to do 
whatever I want with no 

459
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:47,440
consequences. 
That would have been the worst 

460
00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:49,920
possible thing. 
What did work was I got roped 

461
00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:51,920
into the head teachers office 
and absolutely bollocked. 

462
00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:54,200
And then my mum came in and told
me off and then I didn't do it 

463
00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:56,720
again and I was like, OK, yeah, 
I'm pushing the boundaries a bit

464
00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:58,680
too much here. 
I can see my errors of my ways 

465
00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:00,480
here. 
I'm apologise 100%. 

466
00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:01,840
That was that was good for me in
that moment. 

467
00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:03,320
And. 
And would it be good for every 

468
00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:04,960
kid in that exact situation? 
No. 

469
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:06,640
That's the beauty of nuance. 
Yeah. 

470
00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:08,640
Yeah. 
And we're always thinking of, 

471
00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:11,400
you know, if we're given an 
anecdote, it's it's a specific 

472
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:13,040
person. 
If we're talking generally, it 

473
00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:16,040
doesn't include everyone. 
Like you just have to as a 

474
00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:19,240
reasonable person who thinks and
talks and listens to 

475
00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:21,120
conversation, you just have to 
have that baseline of 

476
00:19:21,120 --> 00:19:21,720
understanding. 
I. 

477
00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:23,920
Feel like yeah, 100% and not 
just assume the worst of 

478
00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:26,480
someone. 
Yeah, like do does that person 

479
00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:29,960
think that I put a reel out 
there taking the Mick out of 

480
00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:32,640
Children of ADHD? 
After championing as well do. 

481
00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,400
You think that that's what I was
doing, like, or could it 

482
00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:38,240
possibly be the other thing, 
which is actually more makes way

483
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:40,440
more sense. 
People can't wait to be 

484
00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:42,200
offended. 
And it's like, oh, do you know 

485
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,160
what? 
You know when I say behaviour's 

486
00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:46,080
got worse, don't cower. 
And oh, it's because. 

487
00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:48,240
And we're going to talk now 
about why. 

488
00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:51,440
Yeah, right. 
Because we can just tangibly see

489
00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:52,840
it. 
And I'm going to just start with

490
00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:54,240
that. 
I know, sorry this is your 

491
00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:56,160
episode, but I'm going to just 
take over. 

492
00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,880
It is your episode. 
But in that example, you just 

493
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:01,520
said about how it worked for you
because you got hauled into the 

494
00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:03,840
headteach's office and they 
called you mum, you came in, you

495
00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:05,880
got a Rollic, and you got 
consequences, right? 

496
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:07,760
Yeah. 
There's so much to unpack there,

497
00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:10,520
which I think all contributes to
why behaviour is getting worse. 

498
00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:13,200
Because I'm just going to 
summarise them now, maybe we can

499
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:16,200
dive into as much as you want 
#1A clear behaviour policy 

500
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:18,360
that's backed up by the people 
in charge at the school and it's

501
00:20:18,360 --> 00:20:20,280
consistent. 
That is vital. 

502
00:20:20,360 --> 00:20:22,800
But you need that. 
You need your teachers to be 

503
00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:26,960
backed up by your SLTA 100%. 
And when something goes wrong, 

504
00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:29,480
SLT need to back the teachers up
and go with the teachers. 

505
00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:31,680
Will that sometimes work out 
badly? 

506
00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:33,360
Sometimes, yeah, sometimes, 
absolutely. 

507
00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:35,120
But the majority of time it's 
going to work out well. 

508
00:20:35,360 --> 00:20:37,520
So, you know, your, your 
leadership team and your school 

509
00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:39,560
staff all be on the same page. 
Clear behaviour policy. 

510
00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:42,360
Second thing called your mum and
your mum was on board your 

511
00:20:42,360 --> 00:20:44,560
parents working with the school 
as well in tandem. 

512
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:47,760
That is really vital. 
Third thing, clear consequences.

513
00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:50,280
No pussyfooting around, not 
worried about hurting feelings. 

514
00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:52,240
You did something wrong as a 
consequence for you and you. 

515
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:54,080
That's it right now, get over 
it. 

516
00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:55,760
It's not fair. 
Life's not fair. 

517
00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:58,120
And actually, in this situation,
you did something, so there's a 

518
00:20:58,120 --> 00:20:59,280
consequence. 
Yeah, it's extremely fair. 

519
00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:00,960
It's extremely fair. 
This is just this. 

520
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,440
So all those three things come 
into it and I, and I would say 

521
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:06,960
like if I look at why behaviour 
is getting worse, I think I do 

522
00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:09,080
genuinely think all three of 
them are weaker now than they 

523
00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:11,360
were before. 
Yeah, rather than it just being,

524
00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:14,040
I can't whack you with a, with a
board rubber anymore. 

525
00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:15,880
Put a dance cap on your head. 
100%, yeah. 

526
00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:19,240
The types of consequences 
changing, like being physically 

527
00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:22,760
smacked or actual just other 
consequences, that was a good 

528
00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:24,400
change. 
There's still consequences, 

529
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:26,480
right? 
And they can be rigid, the 

530
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:28,000
consequences. 
What would you say of those 

531
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:31,120
things you mentioned is the 
biggest one in terms of what 

532
00:21:31,120 --> 00:21:32,560
what? 
What is your gut feeling? 

533
00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:33,960
This doesn't need to be backed 
up by status. 

534
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:36,160
This is just your opinion now. 
So like just to preface that 

535
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:38,080
because anyone gets annoyed, 
what would you say your gut 

536
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:42,040
feeling is the one that is most 
causing children to think, oh I 

537
00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:43,960
can just get away with this bad 
behaviour now more than ever 

538
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:45,640
before? 
But what I will say before I 

539
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:47,960
answer this question is I do 
think all three are intertwined 

540
00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:49,600
away more than I made it seem. 
Sure. 

541
00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:52,480
Like, you know, what's the point
in having consistent link 

542
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:54,920
between SRT and teachers if 
consequences isn't part of that?

543
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:56,440
I agree. 
And then calling home isn't part

544
00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:59,040
of the consequences. 
So one thing brings the chain. 

545
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,040
Yeah, completely. 
So I think they're all vital. 

546
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,600
But if I was to look at where I 
think it would break down, like 

547
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:06,920
I, I literally mean it's really 
hard for me to pick. 

548
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:12,000
Actually, I had an idea and then
I thought about another reason. 

549
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:14,200
So, you know, so here's what I'm
thinking. 

550
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:16,720
So the reason why they're all 
important, let's just break it 

551
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:18,800
down then. 
Let's just start with the whole 

552
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:22,480
SLT and teacher link. 
Because in my opinion, if that's

553
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:25,880
not strong, clear and 
consistent, it immediately falls

554
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:27,200
apart. 
It's almost like it's the first 

555
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:28,600
rung. 
That was my initial thought and 

556
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,440
I was like, well, you know, 
unless this teacher knows the 

557
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:33,560
SRT will back them up, what's 
the point in carrying on? 

558
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:35,600
But then I thought to myself, 
well, no, it's because they know

559
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,560
the consequences as well. 
So consequences being clear and 

560
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:41,320
consistent actually probably 
comes before any of that. 

561
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,560
The child needs to understand 
what's right and wrong and what 

562
00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:48,000
will happen if they do the wrong
thing and why and, and it will 

563
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,880
happen. 
And that will only happen if SRT

564
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,640
and teachers are backed up by 
strong links to each other, 

565
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:55,400
where they have each other's 
back and trust each other. 

566
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,920
These things need to be 
implemented in a school for 

567
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,200
anything to work. 
It doesn't matter how strong you

568
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,120
bond to our parents. 
If a child comes into school and

569
00:23:04,120 --> 00:23:06,720
knows there are no consequences 
and teachers are infighting, 

570
00:23:07,120 --> 00:23:10,520
doesn't matter how strongly I my
mum was really hot on me. 

571
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:11,920
Really. 
And your mum was hot on you. 

572
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:14,720
You're saying you still went to 
school and we're annoying you 

573
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:16,760
still went to school and be like
push the boundaries. 

574
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:18,320
Kids will always push the 
boundaries. 

575
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:20,080
So I think that's really, really
important. 

576
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,800
You have to have a leadership 
and staff team on the same page,

577
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:27,160
really clear coherent message 
that back each other up with 

578
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:29,600
clear consequences that are 
always follow. 

579
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:31,320
True. 
I think back to when I was in 

580
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:33,200
geography. 
I had a teacher who was an 

581
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,680
absolutely lovely bloke in 
geography but his warning system

582
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,320
was just made-up and kids would 
walk all over him. 

583
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:41,600
And I remember being in the 
classroom thinking he, you know,

584
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:43,920
he was South African and say 
look, you do one more, you get 

585
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:45,400
your name on the board like 
that. 

586
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:47,200
And if you get your name on the 
board three times then I'd have 

587
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,360
to put a tick next to your name.
And it was just going on and on 

588
00:23:49,360 --> 00:23:52,760
and on and on and on and on. 
And it was like I could see as a

589
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,960
12 year old that the person over
there ruined the lesson because 

590
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,240
he was trying to be funny to his
mate, not because he had any 

591
00:23:58,240 --> 00:23:59,720
additional needs. 
Because he was trying to be 

592
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:01,760
funny and he knew he could get 
away with it. 

593
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,640
The ticks and the he got 15 
warnings before even the teacher

594
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:07,880
went to get someone else. 
But he knew he could push it. 

595
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,120
He really didn't care. 
There was no clear consistent 

596
00:24:10,120 --> 00:24:11,400
boundaries. 
No one was backing up that 

597
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:12,600
teacher. 
To be fair to the teacher as 

598
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:17,200
well, that has to come first. 
And if you've if you haven't got

599
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:20,200
that, the kids will run wild. 
Doesn't matter how much the the 

600
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,680
parents are giving, the kids 
will find it and. 

601
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:24,840
Kids push boundaries all the 
time. 

602
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:26,600
Yeah. 
So like, you know, I'd say those

603
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,320
two together, but I don't want 
to diminish the role of the 

604
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:30,320
parent because I think that's 
vital. 

605
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:31,560
Yeah, for sure. 
Obviously, we talked about 

606
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:33,360
parents, you know, a lot last 
week. 

607
00:24:33,360 --> 00:24:35,120
Go back and listen to the last 
week's episode if you want to 

608
00:24:35,120 --> 00:24:36,920
hear our thoughts on just 
parenting and how that is. 

609
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:38,000
What would you? 
What would you? 

610
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:39,600
Teach that though, like I think 
I. 

611
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:41,360
Agree. 
Everything you said I agree 

612
00:24:41,360 --> 00:24:43,880
with, but I still have this 
thing in my head and I think a 

613
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:45,640
lot of people share this thought
and maybe I've just got this 

614
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:47,240
because I hear so many people 
say it. 

615
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:51,520
Where I do feel like outside 
culture outside of the school, 

616
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:53,720
which is mostly realistically 
going to be parents, right, and 

617
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:54,800
parents, people in parenting 
roles. 

618
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,440
The culture outside of school, I
feel like has way too much power

619
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,400
over the school that can just 
completely annihilate all of 

620
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:04,680
these rules and things we have 
in place. 

621
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,000
Do you think that do you think? 
The culture outside of the 

622
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,280
school and the parents views and
whether we're on board or not, 

623
00:25:10,360 --> 00:25:12,840
are you saying basically, yeah, 
that directly affects the 

624
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,040
cohesion of the school and the 
SLT and the teachers? 

625
00:25:15,120 --> 00:25:17,080
Yeah. 
So even though you agree that's 

626
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,880
the most important thing, again,
actually we're looking at the 

627
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,000
links between them. 
It's the parents that are 

628
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:22,760
causing that division. 
Yeah. 

629
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:23,960
And like you said, because it is
a triangle. 

630
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,120
Genuinely, it is the perfect 
thing where I'm like 1 take out 

631
00:25:26,120 --> 00:25:27,840
any one of those things that 
does genuinely break. 

632
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,360
But I think I think one of those
things that has maybe a bit too 

633
00:25:30,360 --> 00:25:32,640
much impact. 
What do you mean? 

634
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:36,520
Okay, So what I mean is I 
genuinely think and hopefully 

635
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:40,520
people listening can either 
agree or not that that's tend to

636
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:41,680
do one of those tend to do one 
of them. 

637
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,160
I was gonna say agree and I 
thought I better be PC but say 

638
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:46,680
not for some reason. 
Hopefully you agree. 

639
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:49,280
It's all right, We've gone. 
Past PC in this episode, right? 

640
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,880
You're swearing. 
But I think there are a lot of 

641
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:54,760
teachers out there and I've 
definitely been this person in 

642
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,680
my career at points who are 
afraid to make the objectively 

643
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,720
right decision in terms of how 
the consequences for a child, 

644
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,120
but literally based on the 
external factors outside of the 

645
00:26:03,120 --> 00:26:04,280
school and how I know they'll 
react. 

646
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:08,760
Most of the time that's parents.
I don't think news outlets can 

647
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:10,280
help. 
I don't think media helps in 

648
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:12,040
general. 
I feel like the demonization of 

649
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:15,640
teachers is a deep rooted thing 
in our society in terms of we 

650
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,160
just, it makes we make teachers 
feel like they're just bottom 

651
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:20,280
rung and actually, no, you 
should be walked all over. 

652
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:22,280
And my kids said this so 
obviously. 

653
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:23,560
That's what happened, yeah, 
exactly right. 

654
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:25,720
And because. 
Because it's this weird like 

655
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:31,040
problem where parents obviously,
and I don't want anyone to not 

656
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,640
think this, obviously have the 
final say over their own child 

657
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:35,640
in terms of their safety and 
what's happened. 

658
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:37,360
Like they know their child 
better. 

659
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:41,160
But there is like some nuance in
terms of I don't want to take 

660
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:43,960
away the idea that a parent can 
can raise a safeguarding issue, 

661
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:45,080
But all the school said that's 
fine. 

662
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:47,000
So no, you should. 
Parents should definitely have 

663
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:48,920
that power to be able to do that
and override the school in every

664
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:50,080
capacity because it's their 
child. 

665
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:52,960
But there are situations where 
that gets abused now where it's 

666
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,080
like teachers are afraid to do 
the right thing because that 

667
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,000
parent's particularly loud and 
bossy and they don't want to say

668
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,040
anything because that parent 
will literally cause A cause 

669
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:00,560
such a ruckus that they could 
lose their job. 

670
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,120
Can I give an example then? 
So what you're like, I can 

671
00:27:03,120 --> 00:27:06,040
imagine being in a situation 
where I'm like, do you know what

672
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:08,080
I actually know? 
You leave the classroom right 

673
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:09,840
now, go and sit in the head 
teachers office and finish your 

674
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:11,920
work there because you're 
distracting the class. 

675
00:27:12,360 --> 00:27:13,640
Get out. 
Kid gets upset. 

676
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:15,360
No. 
You can get upset all you want. 

677
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:17,400
I've asked you to stop. 
You didn't get out right now. 

678
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:18,640
That's the school consequence. 
The school. 

679
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:20,920
Consequence this is. 
Clearly what happens, you leave 

680
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,680
this room and do your work 
because the school have decided 

681
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:27,080
that the 32 children in this 
classroom are more important 

682
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,440
than the one when you're clearly
just deciding to do something 

683
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:30,480
like this. 
No, there's not. 

684
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,120
Before anyone in this made-up 
situation, before anyone says, 

685
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,160
oh, that person's got 
additional, they don't OK, in 

686
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,240
this situation, they're choosing
to be annoying. 

687
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:38,800
They're continuing to make bad 
decisions. 

688
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,520
There's a consequence. 
They leave the room, is what 

689
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,840
you're saying, that you notice 
more and more that teachers and 

690
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:47,280
leaders, etcetera are thinking, 
oh, gosh, yeah, that that is 

691
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,280
what we should do, but it's not 
worth the backlash from this 

692
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:51,320
parent. 
So do you know what? 

693
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,200
Just keep them in there. 
Yeah, that is one that. 

694
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,640
Is one of the things I'm saying.
And on top of that very linked 

695
00:27:55,640 --> 00:28:00,040
point, like exclusions like so 
the children actually being sent

696
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,080
home from school happens way 
less frequently now. 

697
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:04,240
It's always well, there's a big.
Thing in the news recently, 

698
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:05,440
right? 
Exactly right about literally 

699
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,640
that, which is don't send 
children home for exclusion, 

700
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:12,240
keep them in school. 
All well and good, all well and 

701
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:13,800
good. 
I understand the I genuinely 

702
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:15,800
understand the pros. 
Where are they going? 

703
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:18,800
Who's funding to look after 
them? 

704
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:20,840
Where does that come from? 
Like what? 

705
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,200
What like. 
And are you saying that actually

706
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,360
there's not a, you know, most of
the time when there's an 

707
00:28:25,360 --> 00:28:28,480
exclusion, it's a safety thing 
and actually they should not be 

708
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:30,960
in the building. 
That's part of an exclusion. 

709
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:32,960
Sometimes part of the reason. 
So there has to be a balance. 

710
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:34,360
Yeah, exactly. 
And there's just some layer. 

711
00:28:34,360 --> 00:28:35,760
I feel like my brain's going all
over the place. 

712
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,040
But even thinking back, right, 
even when I was at school, I, I 

713
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,400
still remember there was those 
few kids who were terribly 

714
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:43,800
behaved. 
And when they got excluded or 

715
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:45,760
suspended or whatever, they go 
don't care. 

716
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:47,680
My mom doesn't care anyway. 
My mom, my mom thinks the 

717
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:49,640
school's stupid. 
My mom will back me up to the 

718
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:51,360
empty ground. 
I remember thinking that kid 

719
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:53,160
just does what they want because
their mom just comes in and 

720
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:54,720
shouts like dad comes in and 
shouts louder. 

721
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:57,560
And it's like, and I feel like 
that's just got worse basically 

722
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:01,040
in terms of maybe even just the 
respect for the profession, I 

723
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:05,160
don't know, but just the ability
to overwrite override rather, 

724
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:06,800
you know, these, these things 
that we're saying are sacred in 

725
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:10,120
terms of we need consistent, 
stringent policies in terms of 

726
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:13,080
behaviour and consequences in 
the school, obviously with 

727
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:15,320
leeway for, for children in 
different circumstances, but 

728
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:17,880
generalising here. 
We need, it needs to be strict 

729
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,880
and consistent. 
When that gets overridden by 

730
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,400
parents, it kind of just 
undermines the entire thing. 

731
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:26,800
And I feel like behaviour is now
that I think that's a huge cause

732
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:28,360
of why behaviour is getting 
worse, because parents just 

733
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:30,720
don't respect the school system.
So we've said a lot about. 

734
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,600
Like tangible things you can do 
about it because and I think 

735
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,480
it's really hard to make parents
care, right? 

736
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,000
But I guess a big part of what 
we're saying is when that 

737
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,240
happens with parents, we need 
schools to really, really keep 

738
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:46,160
their backbone and keep that in,
you know, what I say and do in 

739
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,200
this school goes, yeah, and do 
whether it's going to kick off a

740
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:51,480
fuss or not. 
That's the point I'm making. 

741
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:54,720
I suppose as soon as the school 
and the SLT in particular say, 

742
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:56,720
do you know what, it's just 
easier for me to pack this 

743
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:00,280
parent and this sorry teacher. 
Can you say sorry or, you know, 

744
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,600
or can you, can you just just 
don't do that to him anymore? 

745
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,000
As soon as that starts 
happening, you know, I guess 

746
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,320
that that's when it can spiral 
and get worse and worse, worse, 

747
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:10,160
worse, worse. 
And it happens. 

748
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,200
It happens a lot because then 
it's backing up the parent and 

749
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:14,120
the parent thinks they've won. 
Do you think that parent will 

750
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:15,400
stop? 
Yeah, no. 

751
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:17,560
If one wants another one and 
another one, another one. 

752
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,440
So I just, I find it, I find it 
really interesting and I yeah, I

753
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:22,560
struggled to pick one. 
I really do struggle to pick 

754
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:26,360
one. 
But in general, I think all 

755
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,600
three of those things are weaker
than before. 

756
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,040
And you can say, oh, it started 
with the parents, or it started 

757
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,040
with the consequences, or it 
started with restorative justice

758
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,960
or it started with leadership 
that, you know, being detached 

759
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,600
from the classroom. 
You could look at anywhere in 

760
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:41,840
this cycle and and argue as to 
where it started. 

761
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,200
It's kind of irrelevant, really,
because I think every single one

762
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,400
of them is being eroded, which 
is in turn making the whole 

763
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:47,560
thing harder. 
Yeah, for sure. 

764
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:51,840
A lot, a lot of data shows that 
since COVID had a big decline 

765
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:53,200
since COVID time. 
Do you think that's a 

766
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,320
coincidence or do you think 
something to something about 

767
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:59,520
COVID has amplified all of these
things or some of these things? 

768
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:01,760
I think for sure I'd be. 
Interesting to see what happens 

769
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,240
like pretty much from now 
onwards as well, where, you 

770
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,680
know, especially in primary 
school, you'll get to the point 

771
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,400
very soon where the children in 
year 6 actually had no 

772
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:13,000
disruption. 
Yeah, and the parents didn't. 

773
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,240
Go through that exactly, yeah. 
Exactly that. 

774
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,960
I do think it's insane to 
suggest that it wouldn't have 

775
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,840
any kind of effect like, and 
even just looking at the data 

776
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:23,920
shows that it did. 
It's like what a coincidence 

777
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,400
when when we were locked in the 
house for a year and a half, 

778
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,520
behaviour got worse. 
Of course it did Yeah, yeah, 

779
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:31,880
yeah, of course it did with 
there was no did children who 

780
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,240
were young, socialised less, had
less interaction with their 

781
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,280
peers, had less interaction with
school people. 

782
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,600
One of the big thing thing in 
the in the school readiness 

783
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,080
document we went through last 
week was it's an important 

784
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:44,680
milestone for children to 
understand that they can be 

785
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:46,800
looked after and cared for by 
other adults. 

786
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:48,680
That's an important learning 
step. 

787
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:50,840
That's an important thing for a 
child to learn before they go to

788
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:52,520
school. 
That didn't happen for a lot of 

789
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:54,080
kids, no. 
So who's this guy telling me 

790
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:56,160
what to do? 
I ran around the house freely 

791
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,000
for years and years because, you
know, not not even blame the 

792
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,000
parents here, but like, if 
you're, if you're, you know, 

793
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,000
trying to work from home, yeah. 
And you've got a three-year old.

794
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:06,400
I tell you right now, if I was 
working rhyme with a three-year 

795
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:08,400
old, that three-year old would 
be doing stuff I would 

796
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:11,080
absolutely not be letting him do
if it was just me one to one 

797
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,320
looking after him all the time. 
Of course, it's not true. 

798
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,160
I assume there are limitations 
to what we can achieve and do. 

799
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,680
So I think it's it's to me, it's
very obvious. 

800
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:20,400
It's very, very obvious that 
that had an effect. 

801
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:21,560
I don't know about you. 
Yeah, for sure. 

802
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:23,320
Like. 
Literally directly on the on the

803
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,440
kids and again, just having back
to that parent culture. 

804
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,040
I do think there was a bit of a 
rise after that of people, 

805
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,640
parents almost feeling like 
they're waking up to the broken 

806
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:32,000
system and being like, hang on a
minute. 

807
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:33,920
I've had my kid at home for this
time. 

808
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,400
I've I've had way more insights 
into school maybe than I'd ever 

809
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:38,960
have before in a non COVID 
situation. 

810
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:40,840
And my opinions on school have 
changed now. 

811
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:42,360
And for some people, it was 
quite positive. 

812
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:43,960
They were like, Oh my God, the 
teachers, I don't know how you 

813
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:44,640
do this. 
This is crazy. 

814
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:46,080
I can't even look at like, this 
is madness. 

815
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,720
You've got 32 of these. 
And for other parents it was the

816
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:50,680
opposite. 
And they're saying actually I, I

817
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,560
think the school system's 
rubbish like, like you're my kid

818
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:55,560
cleaning these loads of these 
things that I now really am, you

819
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:57,480
know, alerted to. 
Do you think that's ever 

820
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,560
justified? 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. 

821
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:01,840
Like I'm not. 
Going to sit here and pretend I 

822
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,360
haven't spent 170 episodes 
saying the system of education 

823
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,200
is completely broken. 
From the teacher's perspective, 

824
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:07,520
it is. 
It's completely broken. 

825
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:09,240
And a lot of parents were wised 
up, wisened up to that. 

826
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,520
And unfortunately one of the 
side effects of that is in some 

827
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:15,600
situations that manifested, 
manifested as cool. 

828
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,240
I don't care about school. 
I think the system's ridiculous.

829
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:19,840
Don't you dare. 
You have no authority over my 

830
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:21,280
child. 
You're down here now in my head,

831
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:23,640
teachers and education staff in 
general, my kid can do what they

832
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:24,640
want. 
Don't you dare tell them what to

833
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:26,000
do. 
Do I think one of the? 

834
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:28,800
Trickiest things with this whole
situation as well is like, I 

835
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:30,360
think what you're saying is 
absolutely true. 

836
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:34,600
And if you boil it down, you I 
think sometimes parents forget 

837
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:38,720
that it's a very, very different
environment and atmosphere, 

838
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:40,440
being in a clash and then being 
at home. 

839
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:42,600
And I think sometimes when you 
hear about what parents say 

840
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,560
about their children, it'll be 
things like, oh, you know, at 

841
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:47,880
home, I, I give him this because
it really helps him in this 

842
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,040
situation. 
Or he behaves in that way that 

843
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:51,640
and I can react and maybe you 
can do that. 

844
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:56,000
It's like just sometimes I just 
can't because whether, whether I

845
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,720
know that child is your absolute
world, I get it. 

846
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:03,040
But in my classroom, I wish this
wasn't the case, but he's 1 of 

847
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:07,600
33 and I and I physically can't 
give that level of 1 to 1 

848
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,320
interaction with that child 
because I've got 32 other 

849
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:11,760
parents who also would like me 
to do that. 

850
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,960
And I need to make decisions 
based on the whole and the 

851
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:16,719
group. 
And that's where I've said 

852
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:18,560
before and voiced my 
frustrations about education, 

853
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:20,080
that some children get left 
behind. 

854
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,000
So when a parent of one of the 
children who I think is getting 

855
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:27,920
left behind, complain and moan 
about it, I'm like, yeah, you're

856
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,840
right. 
But I can't do anything because 

857
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,800
if I did, if I moved the dial to
that, someone else would miss 

858
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:35,880
out. 
And I have to as A and as a 

859
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,400
system, we have to make a 
decision based on the needs of 

860
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:41,080
the children as to who's going 
to get more of my attention or 

861
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:42,480
not. 
Is that good? 

862
00:34:42,639 --> 00:34:44,960
No. 
Is it worth getting angry and 

863
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:46,760
undermining my behaviour 
strategies because of it? 

864
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:48,320
Also no. 
Yeah, that's the thing. 

865
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:49,360
Like it doesn't. 
Mean we have to. 

866
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:51,480
Go to that. 
We can both be frustrated by 

867
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:52,800
something. 
I can really understand your 

868
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,800
frustrations, but you can't then
complain and moan about the 

869
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,360
school because something isn't 
exactly how you want it now. 

870
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:00,560
Of course it's not. 
Go and get a private one to one 

871
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:02,280
tutor to homeschool your kid all
week then. 

872
00:35:02,720 --> 00:35:04,520
Oh no, I can't afford that. 
Exactly. 

873
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:06,720
There you go. 
But neither can we. 

874
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:08,160
That's what we've got to work 
with. 

875
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:10,280
So it frustrates me. 
No, it's interesting and I. 

876
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:12,760
Think to summarise everything 
we've said so far. 

877
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:17,240
I think it's all really about 
external perspectives of school 

878
00:35:17,240 --> 00:35:19,200
and how that's maybe changed 
over the years and how that 

879
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:20,800
might have impacted behaviour. 
And I think there's lots of 

880
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:22,280
really good valid reasons we've 
talked about. 

881
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:27,040
But I do think there's a couple 
of other sort of valid points to

882
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:28,720
talk about. 
Maybe you don't have to go into 

883
00:35:28,720 --> 00:35:31,040
too much into depth with these 
ones, but I'll leave it open to 

884
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:33,040
you. 
So mental health, we've talked 

885
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,040
about mental health for children
before and how it's declined 

886
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:37,960
that that's something that is 
different and, and do you think 

887
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:39,520
that? 
That was different 1st and 

888
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:41,880
therefore behaviours getting 
worse, yeah. 

889
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:43,240
You think? 
That came first. 

890
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:45,600
That makes sense. 
I think to me right now, I don't

891
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:47,920
know or could. 
I think there are reasons in 

892
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:49,440
tandem. 
Yeah, it isn't very much in 

893
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:50,480
tandem. 
But I do think that there there 

894
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:52,200
are maybe other reasons that 
we're not having to discuss 

895
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,480
right now that meant that mental
health for children is is 

896
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:56,960
different to how it used to be. 
It's declined on average. 

897
00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,680
And I do think that that will 
have an impact on behaviour. 

898
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,000
I think I have an impact on how 
you behave as a human being. 

899
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:03,240
And sometimes that behaviour is 
negative. 

900
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:06,040
Well, not even negative, but. 
In in the environment of the 

901
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:10,200
classroom, the way it presents 
itself is perceived as negative.

902
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,160
And and I I think, yeah, you're 
right. 

903
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,560
Like do we need to update, 
modernise what we see as bad 

904
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:15,600
behaviour? 
For sure. 

905
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,520
I don't think I'm I am slightly 
worried this conversation is 

906
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:19,840
turning into the school's always
right. 

907
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,040
Get over it. 
That's why I keep trying to go 

908
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:23,680
to like, I understand what 
parents mean in the end of the 

909
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:24,120
day. 
No, I agree. 

910
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:26,360
Same with mental health. 
Like if, if they're, you know, 

911
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,560
in the same way we would never 
say some of ADHD is choosing not

912
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:31,640
to listen in the same way we 
would never villainize them for 

913
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:33,880
that. 
Yeah, with with mental health, 

914
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:36,480
which is much harder to see and 
isn't being diagnosed remotely 

915
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:37,480
at the speed that needs to be 
done. 

916
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:39,520
I agree. 
You know, are there times where,

917
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:41,800
you know, as a school system 
will brush over the mental 

918
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:44,760
health aspect and just be like, 
sort yourself out And it's like,

919
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,600
oh, actually, no, there are 
underlying features. 

920
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:49,800
And. 
And so, you know, I'm just 

921
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:52,160
worried when we set up this 
thing of just saying, oh, all 

922
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:54,120
behaviours, communication did it
there and we basically took the 

923
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:56,200
piss out of that. 
Yeah, I'm like, I don't want 

924
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:58,040
people to think that I don't 
think that doesn't exist. 

925
00:36:58,040 --> 00:36:59,680
No, no, sure. 
So it's complicated. 

926
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:02,600
It's funny because my. 
The ending of this point was 

927
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:06,000
talking about mental health. 
Is that because there's such a 

928
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,240
systemic failure in terms of no 
funding to address these things?

929
00:37:08,240 --> 00:37:10,360
That's why I think that there's 
an issue because children are 

930
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:11,840
not getting the help they need. 
Yeah. 

931
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:14,040
So so behaviour is presenting in
a different way, like we should 

932
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,120
be helping these children, but 
there's there's nothing more to 

933
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:17,240
it. 
I'm not even saying, yeah, so 

934
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:18,800
there should be more 
consequences for these kids for 

935
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:20,800
having worse mental health. 
That was a crazy thing to say 

936
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:23,000
that we we should be helping 
these kids and they're not 

937
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,120
getting the help they need. 
Like there's a crisis and we're 

938
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:27,760
not reacting to it as a system. 
But that's that's a fundamental 

939
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:29,200
issue. 
I think that that is a factor 

940
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:31,320
amongst many. 
So another one for me, one we, I

941
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:32,880
won't go in too much depth 
because we talked about Lois, 

942
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:35,040
but social, social media 
culture, you think about the 

943
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:38,120
Andrew Tate, we talked about 
that in by ages ago with like 

944
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:42,040
the rise of big influencers who 
having a huge impacts on, on the

945
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:44,840
culture of children. 
Like, and a part of that can 

946
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,680
sometimes be, yeah, screw the 
system, man, let's behave how we

947
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:49,280
want. 
And OK, part of that is being a 

948
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:51,520
kid, I'm sure. 
But social media is, is 

949
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:53,400
amplified. 
There's nothing like social 

950
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,000
media in, in the history in 
terms of the way it's like 

951
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:59,320
gotten into children's brains. 
Like it is, it is anything you 

952
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:01,280
can think of in the past that 
had a huge impact on how kids 

953
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:03,640
behave way bigger, way more 
amplified. 

954
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:06,520
So I think social media is is 
another huge one, absolutely. 

955
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:09,600
And I guess this goes back to 
him saying, you know, when the 

956
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:12,400
conversation is, has behaviour 
got worse And it's like, it 

957
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:15,040
feels like the initial reaction 
is either just like, yeah, the 

958
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:18,040
kids these days are ridiculous. 
It's like, mate, there's 74 

959
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:19,360
reasons why it's got worse. 
Yeah. 

960
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:22,000
It's not got worse just because 
they're inherently bad. 

961
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,120
Yeah, it's got worse for lots of
external factors. 

962
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:27,320
And in the same way someone else
goes, yes, but but it's no one's

963
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:28,600
fault. 
And we should just, you know, 

964
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:29,840
let them do what they need to 
do. 

965
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:33,360
And that's also ridiculous. 
Like, we have to have really, 

966
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:35,640
really nuanced in like, 
conversations about this and 

967
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,400
dive into to reasons why and 
understand things on a tiny 

968
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,480
granular level and understand 
that there's differences between

969
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:44,280
lots of individual children. 
But we can still see the trends.

970
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:46,800
Has behaviour got worse? 
Of course it has. 

971
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:48,440
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
Why has it got worse? 

972
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:51,440
For 58 different reasons, Yeah. 
Can we solve it overnight? 

973
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:52,520
Well, clearly not. 
No. 

974
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:55,040
But are there solutions? 
To these things, yes, that's the

975
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:56,440
honest truth. 
Like everything we've said so 

976
00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:58,360
far, there are solutions to 
these things. 

977
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,120
I'm not saying that that that 
all of them are grounded in like

978
00:39:01,240 --> 00:39:02,560
immediate reality. 
Some of them are more 

979
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:05,120
ideological than others. 
Like, can we just make culture 

980
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:07,640
change to not demonise teachers?
Well, no, but that would be a 

981
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:09,800
solution to that one thing, and 
we can't do it overnight. 

982
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:11,040
Exactly. 
Can't even if we. 

983
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:13,880
Pick one thing out. 
Of these 57, a lot of them can't

984
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:15,360
be just like overnight, OK, 
done, fixed. 

985
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:17,680
You're not going to see tangible
effects of whatever you 

986
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,160
introduce quickly. 
And I'll make a wider point 

987
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:23,200
about society in general. 
I do think that unless you 

988
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:26,320
because of the culture we live 
in of fast news and 24 hour news

989
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:28,120
cycles and seeing things and 
then forgetting about them 

990
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:30,440
immediately. 
I really, really think it's 

991
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,920
harder than ever to have a long 
term effect on something that's 

992
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:36,400
positive. 
Because all you'll see in the 

993
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,320
meantime is that it cost loads 
to do and there's not an impact 

994
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:40,920
tomorrow. 
So people will start saying, 

995
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:42,680
well that can go, we need to 
save money somewhere that's 

996
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:45,760
pointless waste of money. 
Some things take longer than a 

997
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,520
parliament to do. 
Some things take longer than a 

998
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:50,320
cycle of power for the people 
deciding. 

999
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:53,480
And there are certain things 
like education, health, things 

1000
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:57,120
that are pillars to society that
I think should be really just 

1001
00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:59,000
stripped back from this power 
cycle. 

1002
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:02,000
Let the buffoons talk on 
television and and get one up on

1003
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:03,560
each other and, and chat 
nonsense. 

1004
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:04,960
And then when they're in power, 
say one thing. 

1005
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:07,040
When they're out of power, say 
another thing and all that crap.

1006
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:09,520
Let them do their popularity 
contest, whatever. 

1007
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:10,800
And they can talk about certain 
things. 

1008
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:14,960
But the fundamental, you know, 
root of our Society of what we 

1009
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:16,760
think about for long term 
growth. 

1010
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:19,360
Has to be separate. 
And has to be led by. 

1011
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,840
Experts, yeah, and there's no 
there's no separation of that at

1012
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,800
the minute and because of that, 
we'll continue to have things 

1013
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:27,920
like this where experts say no, 
I don't think that's actually a 

1014
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:30,840
good idea because of XYZ oh, but
it sounds good on a little press

1015
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:32,520
release we've got that we can 
say tomorrow and then if it 

1016
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:34,160
doesn't work out well, at least 
we've got the little news thing 

1017
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:36,200
for the one day yeah, yeah who 
cares if you've got the. 

1018
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:39,040
News thing for the one day, is 
it fundamentally a good thing? 

1019
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:40,600
I agree. 
It has to be about that. 

1020
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:42,880
Will it take longer than five 
years to show impact? 

1021
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:43,280
Yes. 
Cool. 

1022
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:43,960
Don't do it then. 
Yeah. 

1023
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:45,000
Yeah. 
It's because everything's the 

1024
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:46,600
everything is dictated by that 
cycle. 

1025
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:48,360
You're absolutely right. 
Some things for, I mean the 

1026
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:52,040
education existing itself shows 
that some things take 17 or 18 

1027
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:52,880
years. 
Do you know what I mean, to 

1028
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:54,720
manifest or maybe that log is 
obviously the first for years. 

1029
00:40:54,720 --> 00:40:55,600
No, no. 
It's cool, but you go. 

1030
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:56,880
To university, but yeah, of 
course, yeah. 

1031
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:57,800
And you? 
Keep going. 

1032
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:01,200
But like, clearly that process 
takes a long time of, you know, 

1033
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:04,000
becoming educated or whatever. 
So like it's just such an 

1034
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:06,000
imbalance, isn't it? 
My last point on this and we 

1035
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:07,440
kind of addressed it. 
So we will skim over it. 

1036
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:11,520
It's just systemic pressures in 
general on on the system of 

1037
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:15,520
education and just attendance 
targets things, things that 

1038
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:18,040
maybe didn't happen before that 
do happen now or are more 

1039
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:21,640
amplified now that put pressure 
on schools to respond to 

1040
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:24,080
behaviours in different ways. 
That's just another thing that I

1041
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,120
think over time has changed and 
it might be impacting why kids 

1042
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:27,680
are behave in certain ways 
because schools can't do the 

1043
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:29,760
same things they used to do or 
they have different pressures 

1044
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:31,800
impacting their decisions. 
Turns out it's complicated. 

1045
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:33,640
It's complicated and it and it's
not us. 

1046
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:36,440
Saying it used to be better, 
it's not a saying. 

1047
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:38,680
It's now worse than ever in 
terms of the structures and 

1048
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:41,000
things that are in place. 
That it's a really good thing 

1049
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:42,640
that we care for kids more than 
ever before. 

1050
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:44,880
It's a very good thing that we 
understand the importance of 

1051
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:47,080
mental health. 
It's amazing that we have a 

1052
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:49,400
deeper understanding about the 
additional needs of children 

1053
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:51,920
and, and, and understand what 
their needs might be to stop 

1054
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,240
them having meltdowns. 
Just do you know what? 

1055
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:56,640
Back in my day, you wouldn't be 
allowed to go for a little calm 

1056
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:59,720
down, walk around the corridors.
Well, that was awful for that 

1057
00:41:59,720 --> 00:42:01,600
kid. 
Thank God we have that now for 

1058
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:03,520
this child who has that specific
need and they can go out the 

1059
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:07,160
room and calm down. 
Fantastic that we know that I 

1060
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:08,240
do. 
You know what I loved more? 

1061
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,120
Honestly, it was probably the 
top thing in in teaching that I 

1062
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:13,040
just loved. 
There's like a humanity level 

1063
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:16,920
kind of thing was when you're in
a room with with 32 eight-year 

1064
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:20,600
olds and they just get that 
someone's different and they 

1065
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:22,640
just understand it. 
And there's none of this thing 

1066
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:23,720
that you seem to get as an 
adult. 

1067
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:25,560
He got this thing. 
Why don't I get that thing? 

1068
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,440
It it didn't happen in the 
classroom, there'd be there'd be

1069
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:32,840
a child there who even sometimes
would shout out and wouldn't get

1070
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:36,520
the same response from me as if 
someone else shouted out. 

1071
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:40,480
And they all knew that and were 
fine with it because they knew 

1072
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:43,800
just whether it was inherently 
or also just from me modelling 

1073
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:47,680
it, that there are different 
bars and things and expectations

1074
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:49,480
for different people based on 
them individually. 

1075
00:42:49,720 --> 00:42:52,520
And they did not care. 
And it didn't ruin my behaviour 

1076
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:56,200
management. 
They knew that this person 

1077
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:58,800
sometimes can't control that 
they shout out. 

1078
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:02,120
They knew that that person in 
the back didn't like talking in 

1079
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:04,400
front of crowds. 
So when I said to someone, no, 

1080
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:05,600
come on, come to the front, do 
it. 

1081
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:09,280
And I made them do it and they 
were a bit nervous about it, but

1082
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:10,960
they come up the front, they did
it and they felt good about 

1083
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:13,160
themselves. 
When I didn't then pester the 

1084
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:15,440
other person to do it. 
They didn't go. 

1085
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:17,840
Oh, you pestered me. 
Yeah, they. 

1086
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:20,400
Understood that. 
And I could say to them, yeah, 

1087
00:43:20,720 --> 00:43:22,600
you know, you just need you 
needed a bit of encouragement 

1088
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,320
and me just and you felt better.
Now that'll make that person 

1089
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:28,360
feel 10 times worse. 
It everything I'm doing is for 

1090
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:29,520
the outcome of you as an 
individual. 

1091
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:32,760
And I guess that's my point. 
I think, you know, we just need 

1092
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:35,000
a bit more trust sometimes when 
people are in front of your kids

1093
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:38,440
And and I think sometimes it's 
parents projecting onto children

1094
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:41,560
what's fair and what's not. 
Kids kind of seem to get it. 

1095
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,560
They genuinely in general, I 
always found kids seem to get 

1096
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:46,200
it. 
So, you know, tap it more trust 

1097
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:47,200
in what's going on in the 
classroom. 

1098
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:48,200
I agree. 
Now you've said it, it's. 

1099
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:49,440
Made me realise that's 
absolutely true. 

1100
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:52,640
But every, every experience I've
had, the classes have been more 

1101
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:54,840
and more and more and more 
understanding of other children 

1102
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:57,120
with different needs in the in 
the class like lovely. 

1103
00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:59,160
They're just lovely human beings
like crazy. 

1104
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:01,520
So I think yeah, we'll finish 
the episode in a minute. 

1105
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,600
So the the last thing I want to 
do really is just bring this all

1106
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:06,520
down to reality in terms of, you
know, if you're a teacher and 

1107
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:08,720
you're listening to this, what's
the point of this conversation? 

1108
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:10,200
Not really. 
Turn off. 

1109
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:13,440
Yeah, no really for. 
Me like the the meta point right

1110
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:15,400
now is that Dylan's already said
it. 

1111
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:17,520
We're not going to solve this 
overnight. 

1112
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:20,160
And you're as an individual 
teacher, you are not going to 

1113
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:23,480
solve this issue. 
And you know, I think back to 

1114
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:25,480
our Q&A, someone said, oh, I'm 
struggling with some behaviours.

1115
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:27,320
Is it, do I just accept it or do
I, should I keep trying? 

1116
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:29,400
Yeah, we should keep trying. 
We should all keep trying as a 

1117
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:32,240
collective and individually. 
But as a teacher, there is only 

1118
00:44:32,240 --> 00:44:34,680
so much you can do. 
You can't actually go up against

1119
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:38,200
the media and battle how they 
perceive teachers for 10 years 

1120
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:40,000
and completely intercept 
people's minds on that. 

1121
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:41,760
You know how they now think of 
teachers. 

1122
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:42,840
Do you know what you can do? 
What's that? 

1123
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:45,360
You can go to net mums, set up 
an anonymous account and start 

1124
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:48,120
fighting back and all the people
rage bait against teachers and 

1125
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:49,160
you know what else you can do? 
That's. 

1126
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:50,560
A pretty good one. 
You can also have consistent 

1127
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:52,480
routines and expectations like 
you mentioned earlier. 

1128
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:54,600
That's a really big one. 
Having consistency in your 

1129
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:56,880
classroom, routine expectations,
that's one little thing that you

1130
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:59,920
can do to help manage school. 
That's the next thing. 

1131
00:44:59,920 --> 00:45:02,600
Up the whole school. 
If you feel like you work in a 

1132
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:05,800
school where you've or different
teachers have different ways of 

1133
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:07,760
dealing with certain behaviours,
you should address that. 

1134
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:08,600
You should actually bring that 
out. 

1135
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:09,840
That would be a really good 
thing. 

1136
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:12,040
If you if you, if you're a bit 
afraid sometimes of maybe 

1137
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:13,920
putting your head above the 
parapet, this is the one to do 

1138
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:16,560
it with. 
Say it's bad for our kids that 

1139
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:19,080
we're not really consistent with
behaviour and policies across 

1140
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:20,560
this school. 
When one kid, when a kid goes 

1141
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:23,040
through this school, they should
know what the boundaries are and

1142
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:25,320
what the what the rules are all 
the way through that is going to

1143
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:26,840
help with behaviour management 
in your class. 

1144
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:28,600
And then the next thing for me, 
and I'm going to need you to 

1145
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:30,720
talk about this because you did 
this phenomenally in your career

1146
00:45:30,720 --> 00:45:35,640
and I'll never say that again. 
Is, is the is, is how you treat 

1147
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:37,600
the children. 
It sounds really condescending, 

1148
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:40,720
but the positive relationships 
that you actually build with the

1149
00:45:40,720 --> 00:45:43,000
children on a one to one. 
Yeah, look. 

1150
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:46,720
I I get it because you see 
things online and it is a joke 

1151
00:45:46,720 --> 00:45:48,960
and it's hilarious. 
And so did you try building a 

1152
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:52,080
relationship with them? 
Yes, of course, I didn't build a

1153
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:53,320
relationship with every single 
kid. 

1154
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:56,320
What I did was just gave the 
opportunity for children to feel

1155
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:58,280
welcomed, safe and enjoy in my 
classroom. 

1156
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:01,320
That's all we're saying here. 
If you're not at least trying to

1157
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:03,920
do that, then why are you 
shocked when kids don't like 

1158
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:06,400
being in the room? 
Like you have to at least try to

1159
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:07,640
do it. 
And a big thing, what I always 

1160
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:11,840
say to people is it's OK to not 
succeed in something, but you, 

1161
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:14,880
you can't not try. 
And that, that, that just goes 

1162
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:15,960
through absolutely everything in
life. 

1163
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:18,240
And I say it to my kids in my 
class, and I say it to my fellow

1164
00:46:18,240 --> 00:46:20,040
colleagues as well. 
You know, my colleagues are 

1165
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:21,680
saying, oh, we just hate being 
in my classroom. 

1166
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:26,040
Say, have you, have you tried to
make him not hate it? 

1167
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:28,120
And they might look me like, of 
course I have, you idiot. 

1168
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:30,280
And for some people, I'd never 
even ask that question because 

1169
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:32,280
it's insulting. 
But you'll be surprised how 

1170
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:34,560
many, how many times they'll 
just go no. 

1171
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:36,880
And that that teacher maybe had 
a preconception of that kid, 

1172
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:37,560
right? 
Sure. 

1173
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:40,400
I'm just, all I'm saying is it 
is our job to try and do these 

1174
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:42,000
things. 
And the vast majority of 

1175
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:43,320
teachers are trying to do it all
the time. 

1176
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:45,680
And if you try to do it and it 
doesn't work, what I'm not 

1177
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:47,040
saying is, well, just try 
harder. 

1178
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:47,720
Nonsense. 
Yeah. 

1179
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:49,320
Yeah, just just. 
But you have to try. 

1180
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:50,800
You have to. 
Try and the the first like sort 

1181
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:52,960
of in the same line of thinking 
I was trying to reflect on my 

1182
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:54,840
career as well. 
The first thing I ever put 

1183
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:58,640
effort into myself and I was 
actively doing it to to be 

1184
00:46:58,640 --> 00:46:59,680
better at it. 
I wasn't. 

1185
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:02,320
It wasn't just natural, was 
showing humility to the kids. 

1186
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:06,240
Yeah, like I actively thought to
myself, I am in certain 

1187
00:47:06,240 --> 00:47:09,120
situations not going to just 
respond and be shouting and 

1188
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:10,160
embarrassed because something 
went wrong. 

1189
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:13,240
Whether I am going to model to 
the children how to take a 

1190
00:47:13,240 --> 00:47:15,800
little bit of a joke and then 
immediately get back into the 

1191
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:17,400
boundary zone of like, OK, but 
we're doing this. 

1192
00:47:17,720 --> 00:47:20,080
I'm not going to go off crate 
off the wall and then we're all 

1193
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:22,520
having a laugh for 20 minutes. 
But I am just going to model to 

1194
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:24,440
them. 
Sometimes. 

1195
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:27,320
Sometimes depends what it was, 
but I will model to them because

1196
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:29,520
there are some kids in the class
who I no need to see this 

1197
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:31,920
because as soon as they get 
called out on something, it, it 

1198
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:33,360
becomes a huge thing and 
escalates. 

1199
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:36,160
And do you know what they need 
to learn how to behave in 

1200
00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:37,760
certain situations, how to 
respond and react. 

1201
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:41,040
And I would actually go out my 
way to model a bit of humility 

1202
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:42,480
to the kids. 
That's one thing you can do in 

1203
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:45,280
terms of building relationships.
They kids like you more when you

1204
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:47,120
act like a human and when you 
act like them. 

1205
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:50,640
OK so so like when even saying 
that I I I agree with what 

1206
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:52,760
you're saying, but even saying 
that that sentence triggered me 

1207
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:54,480
slightly. 
Go on when you said kids will 

1208
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:57,320
like you more if you do this 
Like who cares? 

1209
00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:58,840
Why do you care if the kids like
you? 

1210
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:01,120
And I see it's a lot. 
And yeah, people, they're right.

1211
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:02,840
It's not your job to be the 
friends of the kid. 

1212
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:04,840
It's not your job to make every 
kid like you and stuff like 

1213
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:10,600
that. 
No, but is it bad? 

1214
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:13,520
Like, I'm not, I'm not. 
You know, it's always framed and

1215
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:15,120
like, yeah, you loser. 
Why do you want kids to be 

1216
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:16,320
friends of you? 
It's like, Oh my God. 

1217
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:18,840
Do you think I craved the, the, 
the friendship of a nine year 

1218
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:19,600
old? 
Of course not. 

1219
00:48:19,720 --> 00:48:21,160
Do you know what? 
Though I don't respect anyone I 

1220
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:23,480
don't like I. 
Think maybe they get. 

1221
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:25,640
Conflated. 
Like it's an easy word to use. 

1222
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:27,360
It's very broad. 
OK, if you want to like, if 

1223
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:30,200
people want to be nitpicky about
the word like you're choosing, 

1224
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:31,880
the bit of like that makes it 
sound weird. 

1225
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:32,800
Oh, do you need kids to like 
you? 

1226
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:34,400
No, I want kids. 
I want kids to want to be in the

1227
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:35,960
classroom and I don't want to 
be. 

1228
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:38,200
So I don't want to be in a room 
with someone I don't like. 

1229
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:40,320
I don't want to be in a room 
with someone I don't respect. 

1230
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:41,920
I just don't want to. 
Like, why would the kids want 

1231
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:43,320
to? 
What do we expect them to be 

1232
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:45,520
different now You have to no. 
Does it mean they'll all 

1233
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:46,720
respect? 
You and like you all the time. 

1234
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:49,720
Also no, but I'll try my best 
to. 

1235
00:48:49,720 --> 00:48:51,640
Make an environment where they 
think I like being in the room 

1236
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:53,240
with this. 
Yeah, and maybe the reason 

1237
00:48:53,240 --> 00:48:54,720
isn't. 
Just I need a mate who's nine. 

1238
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:56,040
Yeah, that's not that. 
Yeah. 

1239
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:57,280
No, the reason is never the 
reason. 

1240
00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:58,960
The reason is because then 
you'll probably be more likely 

1241
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:01,040
to be interested and learn the 
things and actually behave quite

1242
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:02,280
well. 
Because when I was younger, 

1243
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:04,160
guess what? 
I behaved really well for the 

1244
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:05,480
teachers that I respected and 
liked. 

1245
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:08,720
And funnily enough, I was a 
little shit for the ones that I 

1246
00:49:08,720 --> 00:49:10,080
didn't really like and didn't 
respect. 

1247
00:49:10,240 --> 00:49:13,240
There is a tangible link between
liking and respecting someone 

1248
00:49:13,240 --> 00:49:15,280
and then actually making better 
decisions about how you behave. 

1249
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:18,560
And, and hilariously, the end of
all this learning stuff, I 

1250
00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:20,960
learned more stuff with the 
teachers I liked because I was 

1251
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:22,200
listening, because I respected 
with them. 

1252
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:24,640
There's just a chain of effects.
And I think as a teacher, you're

1253
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:27,160
putting on an act all the time 
because you know this, you know 

1254
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:29,360
that we're kind of, it's like 
we're just tricking the kids 

1255
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:30,520
into learning stuff all the 
time. 

1256
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:32,960
Yeah, in a crude way, we are. 
And one of those things is, OK, 

1257
00:49:33,240 --> 00:49:35,160
be nice to them then. 
But hey, then I did that to 

1258
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:35,520
this. 
Kid. 

1259
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:37,560
And they still let me down. 
OK, that's on them. 

1260
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:38,680
Yeah, Cool. 
That's on them. 

1261
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:39,920
Just one strategy. 
Exactly. 

1262
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:42,040
It's on them. 
As well, I remember from my old 

1263
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:44,400
career, because I think about my
career in general, behaviour 

1264
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:45,960
management was strong for me. 
Yeah. 

1265
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:47,680
So when I'm saying this, it's 
not me saying it. 

1266
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:50,600
And then I'm saying it from a 
point of view that it worked a 

1267
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:52,200
lot of the time. 
But let me tell you something 

1268
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:54,720
right now, it didn't work a lot 
of the time as well. 

1269
00:49:54,720 --> 00:49:57,360
And I've spoken about before how
when it didn't work, I always 

1270
00:49:57,360 --> 00:49:59,680
felt like a bit of a fraud. 
So what do I do now? 

1271
00:49:59,720 --> 00:50:00,960
I've tried the things I think 
work. 

1272
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:02,080
I've tried being. 
Nice, right? 

1273
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:03,840
So like when someone. 
Hears a saying that and they're 

1274
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:06,240
like well I've tried that you 
idiots can you give me some 

1275
00:50:06,240 --> 00:50:07,280
extra help? 
Yeah. 

1276
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:09,440
Do you know what, there comes a 
point where you're like, you 

1277
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:13,200
follow the school rules, you're 
really consistent if they keep 

1278
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:15,000
doing it. 
And even I've had before a 

1279
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:17,920
parents back you up, I've had 
all the trifecta working 

1280
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:23,040
perfectly and the kid is still 
still continuing to behave that 

1281
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:26,000
way. 
I'm like, OK, I'm trying. 

1282
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:27,280
Yep, Yep. 
You know what? 

1283
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:29,920
There was a kid at the end of 
the year who still couldn't 

1284
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:32,240
write his name properly. 
I kept trying. 

1285
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:35,800
I kept, I didn't go. 
I've shown you 4 times how to 

1286
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:37,040
write your name. 
Why can't you do it now? 

1287
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:38,760
I'll give up. 
I don't like you anymore. 

1288
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:41,320
No, same thing. 
Try and have the same attitude. 

1289
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:44,920
It's not easy. 
It's not easy because it's, you 

1290
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:47,640
know, with education it's very 
much like, it does feel like 

1291
00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:49,640
it's more part of like what your
role is etcetera. 

1292
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:51,520
But with behaviour, it's the 
same thing. 

1293
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:54,560
Like you, you will still get a 
kid just like who can't write 

1294
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:55,880
their name after three months 
properly. 

1295
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:58,040
After three months, still can't 
behave properly. 

1296
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:00,560
You still have to keep trying. 
I agree. 

1297
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:02,240
And there'll be some. 
Kids you make progress with. 

1298
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:03,520
Some kids you make rapid 
progress with. 

1299
00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:05,800
Some kids you don't make as much
progress with at all, or none. 

1300
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:07,640
Sometimes it feels like and it's
tough when it happens. 

1301
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:11,600
Because I, like you said, I've 
had years where you have a class

1302
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:14,240
and the dynamics just different.
Every, everyone knows that 

1303
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:15,920
dynamics of every class are 
different. 

1304
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:19,280
And I've had like, you know, 
even like 6-7, eight years into 

1305
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:22,000
my career where I thought, I 
feel like I've stepped backwards

1306
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:25,440
in behaviour management. 
I obviously haven't, I obviously

1307
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:26,920
haven't stepped back in 
behaviour management. 

1308
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:29,520
And it's easy for teachers to 
think sometimes, what have I 

1309
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:31,520
done? 
Nothing, nothing. 

1310
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:34,960
There's 32 kids, there's 33 
people in this room. 

1311
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:37,800
You're one of them. 
There's only so much you can 

1312
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:40,840
control, so when that happens, 
don't necessarily think it's 

1313
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:42,880
because of you. 
There's just different dynamic 

1314
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:44,520
in the room. 
It's hardly, and it could be. 

1315
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:45,880
Are we still? 
Trying to adapt and we still, 

1316
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:47,960
like we said, still trying to 
implement some of these things, 

1317
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:50,200
but it does get to a point 
where, OK, it's out of your 

1318
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:50,840
control. 
I agree. 

1319
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:52,280
So it is behaviour getting 
worse. 

1320
00:51:52,720 --> 00:51:55,080
Well, yeah, obviously the stats 
said so straight away. 

1321
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:56,760
That's almost undeniable. 
Behaviour is getting worse. 

1322
00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:58,840
Why is it getting worse? 
Is it a simple answer? 

1323
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:00,520
No, that's the whole point in 
this episode. 

1324
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:02,720
So next time someone says, Oh, 
yeah, it's because of this and 

1325
00:52:02,720 --> 00:52:06,480
they've given you an answer in 
12 seconds, they probably 

1326
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:08,400
haven't thought really much 
about it. 

1327
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:10,160
And you probably they should 
just take a pinch of salt and 

1328
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:11,960
tell them to listen to this 
podcast instead, right. 

1329
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:13,480
Which they can do. 
You can share it with a friend 

1330
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:15,160
exactly like we love shares. 
How do they do that? 

1331
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:18,200
I, I I don't actually know. 
Click on share, Copy the share 

1332
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:19,080
button somewhere. 
Yeah. 

1333
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:21,400
They can also rate it ratings. 
Really. 

1334
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:23,360
We're going past I think it went
past 300 on Spotify. 

1335
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:25,320
That'd be good, considering. 
We have thousands of listeners 

1336
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:26,560
you think are behind, but you 
know what? 

1337
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:28,960
I'm not going to go on about the
ratio anymore because I just 

1338
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:30,920
like a like flogging a dead cash
cow. 

1339
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:33,560
Can't believe it. 
No throwback to their episode. 

1340
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:35,760
Guys, Go and watch our cold 
catalogue. 

1341
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:38,080
We've got nearly 200 episodes. 
We keep doing 2 a week. 

1342
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:40,040
We'll see you next time. 
See you.