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Hello everyone. 
Welcome back to another episode 

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of Teach Step Repeat. 
My name is. 

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Dylan and my name is Hayden. 
I'm back with Season 37, episode

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nine, Series 2. 
We had a good luck too with the 

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chat before trying to clarify 
what it was. 

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We finally looked and we were 
all wrong. 

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Yeah, normally you just go. 
I don't know what episode we're 

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on. 
Good cares. 

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We're all here for the good 
times and the good laughs. 

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Hey Hayden. 
Hey man. 

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Last week we did an episode. 
It went down very well. 

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It always seems to be this is 
the horrible spiral. 

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We're going down with this 
podcast sometimes, but whenever 

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we're a little bit negative, 
seems to do quite well because I

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I suppose people just feel that 
way. 

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They like to have a bit of a 
moan. 

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Everyone loves to moan. 
We all love to moan. 

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So you can live through arm 
moaning, yeah. 

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And then carry on not doing 
anything about it in your life. 

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Brilliant weekend for weeks. 
Let's do it Hayden. 

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So you and me start of our. 
Week Shall you or me do the 

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starting? 
I'm thinking that you will do 

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the starting. 
How's your week been, Dylan? 

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Good. 
I've got a son. 

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Ah, who had one minute 10 on 
their radar? 

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Radar. 
Can you tell that? 

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The only way would say was that 
last night? 

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Yeah, we were up every hour and 
a half of him. 

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Ohh. 
And that was really. 

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Fun. 
Don't worry. 

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That will stop soon. 
Ohh. 

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I don't think it does. 
Yeah, I'm gonna go on about it. 

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But I just, you know, when you, 
like, feel all the parents out 

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there probably feel like, OK, 
they're not routine because 

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they're very young. 
It's only 5 weeks old. 

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No routine yet, but last few 
nights we kind of know what 

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we're doing. 
Yeah, feeds and then I'll go 

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down for three hours or so. 
So I'll go down for longer. 

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Oh, my baby went down for 8 
hours. 

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Oh, I don't care. 
Shut up and don't tell me, 

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please. 
That would be about it. 

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But you know, he's staying down 
for about 3 hours. 

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As I said. 
We can deal with that. 

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We can deal with that. 
Yeah. 

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Last night you fed at 10 half 
1113, half four six half seven. 

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And finally, Victoria Station. 
Wow. 

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Please. 
Cool. 

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You're really making me excited.
No, But here's the problem. 

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Here's what I said right, And it
was backed up by Lauren's mum. 

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She was saying they make them 
cute for a reason. 

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Because if they didn't make them
cute, I'd have chucked him out 

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the window. 
It'd be it'd be fine bye if he 

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wasn't really, really cute and I
didn't love him so much. 

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Yeah. 
In the baby gone. 

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In the bin, Gone. 
Bye. 

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See you later. 
I don't wanna do this. 

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Yeah, I did say before last 
night, I said. 

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Should we just sleep tonight? 
Ohh, what's the what's the worst

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That obviously we didn't Our 
baby needs food. 

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BA Very sweet. 
You're very involved, aren't 

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you? 
Not like these old fashioned, 

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old fashioned dads. 
I had a friend messaged me 

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saying. 
Last thing on Rory, I had a 

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friend messaged me saying ohh by
the way we were chatting, he was

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seeing some from the podcast Ohh
by the way, you really sound 

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like David Brent last. 
Week, David Brand. 

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Go on in the bit where he was 
like, yeah, I'll help out. 

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Not for praise. 
Don't praise me. 

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Actually, I do stuff at home. 
I'm a dad who changes nappies. 

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Yeah. 
You've watched way too much on 

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this. 
I don't know. 

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I don't know if I'd be 
complimented or I don't know if 

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I'd feel complimented cause I 
love David Brent. 

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Don't think it was a compliment.
Yeah, I said. 

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I'm gonna have to splice them 
together. 

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Yeah, Dad, work from home does 
the. 

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Nappies being a dad, Is that the
reason that you forgot since 

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last week's recording? 
To read the bear story, Bring 

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the best story, the story we 
mentioned last week. 

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Very quick. 
One, any listeners that I have 

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been given a Goldilocks and 
three that story, but it's been 

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swapped in with the Guardian and
the gorilla. 

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Long story short, it's involved 
with my classroom. 

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Last year they remembered she 
wanted to write me a story for 

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our baby. 
I've got it. 

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It's coming. 
OK, so the last thing I'm gonna 

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say for my week. 
Let's move from school to home. 

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No, he's at home. 
But then I'm not in my home now.

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So instead of home, I think it's
one week for each transfer. 

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So school to home was a week, 
another week for it to get here.

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As next week it will be ready 
already. 

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I'm trying to clarify it like 
there's a guy in a gorilla 

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story, no one knows what to talk
about, but the last thing, 

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something like semi serious I 
suppose about my week, just a 

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quick win. 
We did worry monsters. 

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We got worry monsters in school 
where they're basically just 

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like decorated shoeboxes with a 
hole in. 

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If you've got a worry it just 
allows the children to write it 

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down, put it in the box without 
feeling like they're making a 

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thing out of it. 
Just something I'd recommend to 

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everyone, even if they exist in 
our school. 

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But just making the point of 
saying them right. 

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This morning I had to slide up 
on my screen. 

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It's like I brought the worry 
monster into the class. 

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It's right here. 
You've all got a sheet of paper 

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in front of you. 
You can read your book. 

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You can write, you can do it. 
It's a free choice and not gonna

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force you to have worry. 
You're not worried, be worried. 

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It's worrying most the time. 
What you worried down? 

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One down, kid. 
But then, turns out it was just 

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you. 
Sleep. 

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I'm so worried, but yeah, just a
quick win because obviously 

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there are some funny ones in 
there, something not worried at 

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all. 
It's one of them just said I was

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worried because when I came into
school this morning my mum said 

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it was going to be someone else 
picking me up and I was like, 

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ohh, OK like that's sweet. 
But I very quickly said to them,

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you know, that you'll still go 
home. 

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And they were like yeah, I know,
I just want to see my mum was 

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like, so that's like low level 
worry, Yeah. 

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But there were also other things
that I wouldn't have known. 

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Why isn't, you know, things 
going on the playground, things 

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going on between children and it
just give me that insight that I

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could have just floated through 
and then come April, that could 

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have been a really big problem. 
Because it's not been. 

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You would have known. 
But it's true. 

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If you don't give kids the a 
really, really easy way to say 

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these things and they just won't
do it. 

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Some of them will. 
You get those. 

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You always get the boys for 
children who are every day 

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they're there. 
I wanna tell you a problem. 

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And then I guess it's easy to 
then think, Oh, well, you know, 

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they're just like that, just 
kind of a bit over the top and 

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everyone else is fine. 
Well, there was one goal just 

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very quickly, For example, who 
that morning had come in. 

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I always speak to them when they
come in like, hey, how you 

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doing? 
You okay? 

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And she was like, yeah, OK, 
good. 

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And she sat down. 
She's presenting. 

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Absolutely fine. 
Then her worry was something 

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that was worrying her right 
then. 

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It was like something from that 
morning And I'm like, why? 

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I just wouldn't have known that 
cause she was very smiling 

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cracking up front. 
Would have had a single clue. 

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Kids do yeah put on front quite 
quickly I find. 

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So just I just fought a nice 
quick win. 

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Anyone at school just try out. 
Just want to start. 

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We all do this. 
But just explicitly put 5 

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minutes aside one morning just 
to say. 

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Guys let me know there's 
something to let me know. 

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All anonymous is really cool. 
That's good. 

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Yeah, my job. 
I had a really good Ohh. 

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I'd have had a really good week,
you know. 

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Don't convince me mate. 
Why? 

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But you know it's. 
Not a really good week, I 

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believe. 
You Mickey Mouse hot. 

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Well thanks. 
Well, thanks for making me 

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within 3 seconds, that's why. 
You know, why not choose? 

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I don't wanna hear it because 
I've already read it, you know? 

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Come on. 
Yeah, but how was your week, 

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mate? 
Did you manage to get any visits

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from ex pupils? 
Do you have a really nice week? 

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Nice kids at school realised 
you're sick at the recorder. 

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Did you measure around your 
stomach? 

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Go now, go now. 
Ohh quick. 

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Listen. 
Quick Fire had a really nice 

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week, really positive week. 
I just had one of those weeks 

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where I finished finished my 
whole 3 days. 

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Very loose definition of a week.
Ohh, I feel bad. 

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Anyway, whatever, you don't. 
Whatever, whatever. 

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Finish my 3 days and you know, 
just the kids were just so nice.

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Everyone's respectful. 
Like it was just I just had a 

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really good week. 
I didn't have any problems. 

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Yeah, it was really nice. 
So that was good. 

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Also been playing recorders and 
I was quite proud of myself 

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because I've never touched a 
recorder before. 

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The day I had to start teaching 
recorders, it was like, only 

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this, yeah. 
Yeah, first time I've ever done 

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it. 
I've always done other subjects.

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You've been a primary school 
teacher for nearly 10. 

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Years. 
I've never taught recorders. 

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Yeah. 
Yeah, that's right. 

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Yeah. 
Yeah, I know. 

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So I was like, I'm gonna be 
rubbish at this. 

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And I just sort of stayed one 
step ahead of them. 

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And we got to our little final 
piece yesterday that we're gonna

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be playing in a church. 
I looked at the sheet music and 

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it's gonna be painful. 
I've got to try and teach it and

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I could play it straight away, 
read it, OK, there's two parts 

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of me right here. 
Don't take this away from me. 

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One part of me wants this really
big you up and be really nice. 

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That was someone I knew less. 
That's all I do. 

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Yeah, that's lovely to hear. 
Yeah. 

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But I will just say there's a 
reason we teach 7 year olds in 

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the quarter. 
Because you're moving on 

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extremely easy. 
I didn't hear that. 

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Don't worry about it, mate. 
You should be proud of me. 

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And the other thing I want to 
mention the bit bore personal 

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and embarrassing. 
So you know, we had a vet, 

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didn't we? 
We're a little bit because 

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obviously both of our 
girlfriends were pregnant at the

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same time. 
People take like a month. 

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They were, you know, very, very 
similar timings. 

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And we had a little bit of fun 
just saying, oh, I wonder at 

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what point they will overtake us
in the size of their stomach. 

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Because we're just joking about 
ourselves because we're big 

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Bolshy made a lot of rubbish. 
And it was like, Oh yeah, you 

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know, we've had a sweepstake on 
Abate, 4 months, four months. 

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After a while it was they 
obviously looked very pregnant 

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and it was like of course bigger
than us. 

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Well, no, turns out Ohh. 
My mum's the other day and my 

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sister thought it would be 
really, really fun to get the 

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00:08:46,220 --> 00:08:47,640
tape measure out. 
Really. 

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And yeah, just because she knew 
what fun event doesn't start the

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00:08:50,730 --> 00:08:55,020
tech again. 
Be It was great, but she knew 

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that she would be able to 
humiliate me. 

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And she measured around Lawrence
Bump, right? 

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00:08:58,580 --> 00:09:00,820
And but just for context, she's 
38 weeks pregnant. 

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She's ready, ready to pop and 
measured around me. 

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And I was like 2 inches bigger. 
My circumference is larger. 

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Leave it. 
I was mortified. 

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If you were both planetary 
bodies, she'd be your moon. 

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Still, she's a little smaller, 
yeah. 

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And I've just eaten a Kit Kat 
and I had another one and I put 

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it back. 
That's the perfect situation. 

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Like summarise, Yeah, after 
that, the fact you had a 

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secondary cut lined up. 
Get ready to go. 

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00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:34,350
Ohh. 
So yeah, a bit gutted about 

229
00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:35,950
that. 
OK, that's my way. 

230
00:09:37,110 --> 00:09:39,400
Yeah, I gotta go on a diet now 
guys. 

231
00:09:39,410 --> 00:09:41,130
I hope you enjoyed that. 
We did say we're gonna try and 

232
00:09:41,140 --> 00:09:43,560
streamline our week a bit 
because we have got into the 

233
00:09:43,570 --> 00:09:45,950
habit of going on and on. 
We started with that delirium, 

234
00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:48,820
that delirious week, because I 
think that week the whole 

235
00:09:48,870 --> 00:09:51,680
episode wasn't intro. 
I don't think we had any 

236
00:09:51,690 --> 00:09:53,590
structure whatsoever. 
Ohh dear. 

237
00:09:53,970 --> 00:09:55,350
So yeah, that was all week. 
Brilliant. 

238
00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:58,000
Should we get into the chunky, 
chunky bit of this? 

239
00:09:59,340 --> 00:10:00,460
All right. 
See you next time guys. 

240
00:10:04,190 --> 00:10:05,780
Right. 
So there's there is a danger 

241
00:10:05,790 --> 00:10:08,540
hater that for two weeks in a 
row we go down the negative 

242
00:10:08,550 --> 00:10:11,390
spiral. 
So we made an agreement weeks. 

243
00:10:11,810 --> 00:10:13,810
Ohh. 
We made an agreement that if 

244
00:10:13,820 --> 00:10:17,200
we're going to talk about some 
negative things again we have to

245
00:10:17,210 --> 00:10:19,000
either come up with some 
solutions which we'll do later. 

246
00:10:19,010 --> 00:10:20,930
Yes. 
But also we're gonna have a nice

247
00:10:20,940 --> 00:10:23,580
little 2 minute nice little 
happy thing right now. 

248
00:10:24,090 --> 00:10:27,390
Happy segment. 
We welcome to the happy set. 

249
00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:31,200
Here we go of the angry podcast.
Hey, ready. 

250
00:10:31,210 --> 00:10:33,290
So the first. 
One day I'm gonna make it. 

251
00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:38,250
Collection of a compilation of 
all your little compilation 

252
00:10:38,290 --> 00:10:40,800
little jingles that you make up.
Please do I I love it. 

253
00:10:40,810 --> 00:10:42,610
This is what I do all the time. 
I don't think the viewers know 

254
00:10:42,620 --> 00:10:45,460
this. 
This is what happens every two 

255
00:10:45,470 --> 00:10:46,760
minutes. 
In my house, it's great because 

256
00:10:46,770 --> 00:10:49,220
we're becoming more and more 
comfortable with recording this 

257
00:10:49,230 --> 00:10:53,240
podcast. 
We're becoming more comfortable 

258
00:10:53,250 --> 00:10:55,440
talking on the. 
You can't talk. 

259
00:10:55,490 --> 00:10:59,050
I can't talk most of the time 
anyway. 

260
00:10:59,060 --> 00:11:02,690
Becoming more comfortable. 
Another pressure. 

261
00:11:02,700 --> 00:11:05,360
Go on, try again. 
We're becoming more comfortable 

262
00:11:05,450 --> 00:11:08,340
on this podcast, and you're 
beginning to see more. 

263
00:11:08,390 --> 00:11:11,860
Behind the Mask is slipping 
Dylan. 

264
00:11:12,730 --> 00:11:16,540
Ohh, soon I'll be whacking my 
head and running into the wall. 

265
00:11:17,170 --> 00:11:18,700
That's a story for another. 
Day. 

266
00:11:18,770 --> 00:11:22,420
That's for a future episodes. 
Anyway, quick thing, right? 

267
00:11:22,430 --> 00:11:24,040
Just wanted to do a nice little 
thing. 

268
00:11:24,130 --> 00:11:25,080
All right. 
And I'm gonna ask you a 

269
00:11:25,090 --> 00:11:25,880
question. 
Yep. 

270
00:11:26,450 --> 00:11:31,710
You know the question is because
you can pretend ohh question. 

271
00:11:33,260 --> 00:11:37,110
You isn't listening. 
Just build really good. 

272
00:11:37,230 --> 00:11:39,200
Oh, no, I haven't asked you. 
I'm sorry I haven't asked you. 

273
00:11:39,210 --> 00:11:40,160
Got away. 
OK. 

274
00:11:40,170 --> 00:11:41,230
If you're gonna pretend. 
Yeah. 

275
00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:42,910
Yeah, We'll do it again. 
Do it again. 

276
00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:45,620
Here we go. 
So what's 1? 

277
00:11:47,190 --> 00:11:49,920
What's one thing that you do 
with your class? 

278
00:11:49,930 --> 00:11:53,230
Yeah, to build rapport with 
Don't don't wanna. 

279
00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:56,020
Fantastic. 
Well that's I'll have the same 

280
00:11:56,030 --> 00:11:59,520
answer. 
So that's a good question. 

281
00:11:59,570 --> 00:12:01,510
I don't just do one thing is the
answer. 

282
00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:03,720
So I'm gonna try. 
I don't find it hard to pinpoint

283
00:12:04,210 --> 00:12:07,240
but it's really it feels like a 
cop out answer. 

284
00:12:07,250 --> 00:12:10,300
I always say it but I think it's
such a powerful way to go about 

285
00:12:10,310 --> 00:12:13,890
seeing your class and some 
teachers just don't they just 

286
00:12:13,900 --> 00:12:15,300
don't know. 
They don't because I work with 

287
00:12:15,310 --> 00:12:17,190
them and they're not bad 
teachers but they just don't do 

288
00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:20,440
this. 
And I I just treat and see every

289
00:12:20,450 --> 00:12:25,000
single child as an. 
Imaginary friend again, this is 

290
00:12:25,010 --> 00:12:28,210
Brent is back. 
Not everyone does this, but I 

291
00:12:28,220 --> 00:12:30,740
do. 
But no, you see and treat every 

292
00:12:30,750 --> 00:12:34,020
single child as their own 
individual personality. 

293
00:12:34,370 --> 00:12:36,760
I think every teacher treats 
them, does treat them as an 

294
00:12:36,770 --> 00:12:39,780
individual in terms of their 
ability and maths and English. 

295
00:12:39,790 --> 00:12:42,320
And they can, you know, put 
stuff in place with them and 

296
00:12:42,330 --> 00:12:44,370
they're there to make them 
better at maths, better English.

297
00:12:45,100 --> 00:12:48,570
But I just absolutely love every
single year spending the time up

298
00:12:48,580 --> 00:12:51,010
until Christmas, not only 
teaching them lots of stuff, 

299
00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:53,250
obviously, because that's the 
biggest part of the job, but 

300
00:12:53,260 --> 00:12:56,050
just building a relationship 
with them where I know them 

301
00:12:56,060 --> 00:12:58,630
individually. 
And I'd like to think that by 

302
00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:01,920
Christmas, if you said any child
in my class, I'd be able to tell

303
00:13:01,930 --> 00:13:04,790
you three or four individual 
facts about them that I've got 

304
00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,730
from them, from just talking to 
them, just getting to know them.

305
00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:09,960
I think that's such a powerful 
thing because I think loads 

306
00:13:09,970 --> 00:13:11,710
comes from that. 
So there's those little bits 

307
00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:14,020
like do the register silly or 
all that kind of stuff. 

308
00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:17,470
But for me, that's the biggest 
thing is they're their own 

309
00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:21,960
individual personality and just 
talk, talk to them without the 

310
00:13:21,970 --> 00:13:24,180
end goal of they're going to 
learn some mass by the end of 

311
00:13:24,190 --> 00:13:26,290
this conversation or they're 
gonna know some more history. 

312
00:13:26,330 --> 00:13:28,420
I just talked to them as I would
talk to you. 

313
00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:30,670
Well, do you have cause quite as
quite a wide point? 

314
00:13:30,730 --> 00:13:33,940
Yeah, it's a very good point. 
But I was thinking more to be 

315
00:13:33,950 --> 00:13:36,250
fair, like like a specific 
answer your question. 

316
00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:39,460
Right. 
It was a little point I was 

317
00:13:39,470 --> 00:13:41,610
thinking of because I do it all 
the time and it's just funny and

318
00:13:41,620 --> 00:13:44,640
just, I don't know, just saying 
their name, slightly silly. 

319
00:13:44,700 --> 00:13:47,580
And then they love it. 
And there was one child who came

320
00:13:47,590 --> 00:13:50,390
up to me the other day and just 
said to me in the register, I'm 

321
00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:53,490
called you. 
Yeah, the same Mr. Price. 

322
00:13:53,500 --> 00:13:55,490
Then I answer. 
OK, brilliant. 

323
00:13:55,500 --> 00:13:56,550
And they love it. 
Yeah. 

324
00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:59,910
They have a day. 
This kind of backfired slightly.

325
00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:02,590
I was just saying the register 
and I was just six children in 

326
00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:04,910
very close to the top and I said
a name. 

327
00:14:04,980 --> 00:14:07,210
But apparently all the. 
I thought I didn't, but 

328
00:14:07,220 --> 00:14:09,350
obviously I did. 
I said it at the start of 

329
00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:12,890
accident trying to stumble over 
my words and so I'd replaced the

330
00:14:12,900 --> 00:14:14,750
1st letter with the team 
accident and they're like what? 

331
00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:15,910
What? 
What did you say? 

332
00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:18,710
Was that I was like, no, no, I 
didn't thank. 

333
00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:20,530
You. 
So I proceeded to say every name

334
00:14:20,540 --> 00:14:22,610
wrong after. 
That, yeah, just changed. 

335
00:14:23,010 --> 00:14:24,230
They go home. 
What did you learn that? 

336
00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:26,920
I don't know. 
But but Mr. Price did this thing

337
00:14:26,930 --> 00:14:29,200
and it was unbelievable. 
OK, OK, but we really need you 

338
00:14:29,210 --> 00:14:30,680
to learn your times tables. 
Did you do that? 

339
00:14:30,690 --> 00:14:33,000
No, but I changed the letter to 
start well name. 

340
00:14:33,010 --> 00:14:34,160
Was brilliant and we did it all 
day. 

341
00:14:34,170 --> 00:14:35,380
Was actually. 
Can't spell your name now. 

342
00:14:35,390 --> 00:14:37,340
No, you've regressed. 
Yeah. 

343
00:14:37,570 --> 00:14:38,520
Was it funny? 
Yeah. 

344
00:14:38,530 --> 00:14:41,630
OK, Right. 
Yeah. 

345
00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:43,300
I think little things like that.
Yeah. 

346
00:14:43,310 --> 00:14:49,120
Do the register funny. 
And I I guess one thing I do in 

347
00:14:49,130 --> 00:14:52,940
lessons is I will very happily 
break for two minutes. 

348
00:14:53,330 --> 00:14:56,160
And what I mean is it's not like
break, stop and just rest. 

349
00:14:56,170 --> 00:14:59,600
It's like, OK, I've realised 
that they're really bored. 

350
00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:02,640
They're really bored right now. 
So I'm going to Gee them up a 

351
00:15:02,650 --> 00:15:04,060
bit. 
I'll get them unsused and be 

352
00:15:04,070 --> 00:15:08,350
silly or you know and and one 
thing I do all of the time, my 

353
00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:10,380
friends get annoyed I said it 
before on the podcast is I 

354
00:15:10,390 --> 00:15:15,050
constantly praise them like I, 
I, I kill them with praise like 

355
00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:18,800
they could be doing anything 
That's right and I'll be and 

356
00:15:18,810 --> 00:15:20,830
some people say don't do that 
because then they do something 

357
00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:21,790
no I don't care. 
I'm gonna. 

358
00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:24,180
I'm gonna kill them with praise 
and then when they do something 

359
00:15:24,190 --> 00:15:26,210
wrong call them up on it. 
Yeah, but then I'm going to have

360
00:15:26,220 --> 00:15:28,470
90% of my time is praise, 
praise, praise, praise. 

361
00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:31,030
Particularly those children, 
because I've always remember 

362
00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:33,310
training years ago about the 
hidden child and it's like it 

363
00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:35,960
was a way to get you to think 
about the the quietest child in 

364
00:15:35,970 --> 00:15:37,830
your class, because quite often 
they're gonna get the least 

365
00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:40,280
interaction could simply because
they're just not making as much 

366
00:15:40,290 --> 00:15:41,110
noise. 
That's it. 

367
00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:42,460
And I've always been aware of 
that. 

368
00:15:42,470 --> 00:15:44,770
And I quite often do exactly 
what you're doing. 

369
00:15:44,780 --> 00:15:46,580
And I'll actively think to 
myself, Right. 

370
00:15:46,650 --> 00:15:48,000
Who is it? 
Because it's going to be five 

371
00:15:48,010 --> 00:15:50,320
children, at least in this 
class, who constantly do the 

372
00:15:50,330 --> 00:15:52,460
right thing. 
They never do the wrong thing, 

373
00:15:52,530 --> 00:15:53,790
but they don't get much praise 
for it. 

374
00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:55,760
Yes. 
And I'm like, whoa, you know, 

375
00:15:55,930 --> 00:15:59,020
little Timmy over there, let's, 
you know, can we be like him, 

376
00:15:59,030 --> 00:16:00,670
please? 
And he's probably thinking, oh, 

377
00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:01,940
sweet, like, I've just got 
praise. 

378
00:16:01,950 --> 00:16:04,520
I do this all the time, but, and
some people will go well, he's 

379
00:16:04,530 --> 00:16:06,440
just doing the bare minimum. 
We should be praising that. 

380
00:16:06,590 --> 00:16:08,580
Well, finally enough, more than 
half the class aren't. 

381
00:16:08,590 --> 00:16:11,120
So I'm going to praise him 
actually, because that's not 

382
00:16:11,130 --> 00:16:12,920
obviously the known compared to 
other. 

383
00:16:12,930 --> 00:16:14,640
People. 
I guess positivity then is 

384
00:16:14,650 --> 00:16:17,460
actually a really, really big 
thing for building report. 

385
00:16:17,470 --> 00:16:21,110
Like I always try to. 
I think of ways where they can 

386
00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:23,650
earn something as a class, like 
so it develops a bit of 

387
00:16:23,660 --> 00:16:26,290
community spirit and it's like, 
right, if we do this and you're 

388
00:16:26,300 --> 00:16:28,220
going to earn yourself, every 
time I put this thing on the 

389
00:16:28,230 --> 00:16:30,040
board, you get another minute 
going to extra play. 

390
00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:31,380
We get this work done to this 
standard. 

391
00:16:31,390 --> 00:16:33,530
We go outside, we have some fun 
because you've done the hard 

392
00:16:33,540 --> 00:16:36,270
work and they're so driven by 
that sort of stuff. 

393
00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:38,550
And then they like you for it 
and you just build up a nice 

394
00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:40,900
relationship with them because 
like this teacher rewards me, 

395
00:16:40,910 --> 00:16:41,860
Don't. 
We don't just do more. 

396
00:16:41,980 --> 00:16:44,540
Hard work as a reward for 
getting the work done hard. 

397
00:16:44,990 --> 00:16:47,200
I completely agree. 
I I think it's it's an issue 

398
00:16:47,210 --> 00:16:49,640
sometimes where there's a bit of
a bell curve like inverted where

399
00:16:49,650 --> 00:16:52,020
in the middle, if you're a 
middle one, you might not get as

400
00:16:52,030 --> 00:16:54,740
much out of them but if you 
shower them with praise and they

401
00:16:54,750 --> 00:16:58,460
they really, really adore you 
they can get loads out of you. 

402
00:16:58,530 --> 00:17:01,720
But also I saw a point the other
day and I think it's probably 

403
00:17:01,730 --> 00:17:05,069
right, is sometimes the most 
like staff member in school is 

404
00:17:05,079 --> 00:17:07,060
actually getting the best out of
their kids because there's 

405
00:17:07,069 --> 00:17:09,400
another way to make children 
like you and it's just to let 

406
00:17:09,410 --> 00:17:10,740
them do whatever they want 
whenever they want. 

407
00:17:10,750 --> 00:17:11,900
Yeah. 
And then you're the walk over 

408
00:17:11,910 --> 00:17:13,880
the cool teacher. 
Hey, with that, we don't have to

409
00:17:13,890 --> 00:17:15,170
get our work done with this 
person. 

410
00:17:15,180 --> 00:17:16,480
This is awesome. 
Isn't he the best? 

411
00:17:16,490 --> 00:17:18,060
But then there's the other way, 
which is Ohh. 

412
00:17:18,069 --> 00:17:19,079
Yeah, he's really cool and 
funny. 

413
00:17:19,089 --> 00:17:20,660
Like, we work hard. 
Yeah, but. 

414
00:17:20,670 --> 00:17:23,079
Really strict rules and in 
place. 

415
00:17:23,089 --> 00:17:25,800
But he he is nice as well 
because I think yeah I really 

416
00:17:25,810 --> 00:17:27,630
want to fight against the 
blanket thing of and the 

417
00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:30,010
statement was basically the most
liked teacher in your school is 

418
00:17:30,020 --> 00:17:32,140
probably the worst teacher. 
And I was really triggered 

419
00:17:32,290 --> 00:17:35,140
because I get the sentiment and 
I understand there will be 

420
00:17:35,150 --> 00:17:37,780
teachers like that. 
But I think that sentiment feeds

421
00:17:37,790 --> 00:17:39,020
them into you've got to be a 
monster. 

422
00:17:39,070 --> 00:17:40,180
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
And you just. 

423
00:17:40,190 --> 00:17:41,750
Don't know it's a fine line 
though, isn't it? 

424
00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:45,230
Between being that and. 
Being a fun, respectful teacher 

425
00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:47,690
that kids like who does actually
still get really good. 

426
00:17:47,700 --> 00:17:50,050
Like, yeah, progress and results
from their kids. 

427
00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:51,610
It's hard talking of being a 
monster. 

428
00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:58,490
So you've seen the title and you
clicked on it, Someone shared it

429
00:17:58,500 --> 00:17:59,830
maybe. 
Or you're just an avid fan. 

430
00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:03,030
Thank you for coming back. 
And it is a bit negative. 

431
00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:07,050
OK, so the question is loaded. 
How do we fix terrible school? 

432
00:18:07,060 --> 00:18:09,330
Click bait. 
Click, maybe? 

433
00:18:09,910 --> 00:18:14,340
And then we get with the Rory 
poo story how do we fix terrible

434
00:18:14,350 --> 00:18:17,460
schools And and I think the my 
favourite part of the title is 

435
00:18:17,470 --> 00:18:21,800
problems and solutions because I
always feel like a bit of a a 

436
00:18:21,810 --> 00:18:24,590
negative Nelly when I come to 
something with just moaning, 

437
00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:26,030
moaning, moaning. 
But I've not come with any 

438
00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:27,110
solutions. 
Yeah fix it. 

439
00:18:27,190 --> 00:18:30,560
So we're going to dive in. 
When we say bad scores, we mean 

440
00:18:30,610 --> 00:18:33,460
not underperforming schools like
how do we make progress better. 

441
00:18:33,530 --> 00:18:35,900
We're gonna kind of harp on from
last week, which was quite 

442
00:18:35,910 --> 00:18:40,060
positive with people, positive 
feedback and that is schools 

443
00:18:40,070 --> 00:18:44,170
that are just become hellish, 
schools that become and negative

444
00:18:44,180 --> 00:18:46,660
place for staff and negative 
place for pupils. 

445
00:18:47,010 --> 00:18:50,690
How can we fix these places? 
What is wrong with them in the 

446
00:18:50,700 --> 00:18:52,700
1st place? 
What are the problems in these 

447
00:18:52,710 --> 00:18:55,880
kind of institutions and how can
we maybe try and move forward 

448
00:18:55,890 --> 00:18:58,740
and what are the solutions that 
are practical and that will make

449
00:18:58,790 --> 00:19:01,520
somewhere a much better place? 
To be There are plenty of good 

450
00:19:01,530 --> 00:19:04,000
schools, and by good again, I'm 
not, we're not talking offered 

451
00:19:04,010 --> 00:19:05,480
today. 
We're not talking about gradings

452
00:19:05,490 --> 00:19:07,480
of schools. 
We're talking about places which

453
00:19:07,490 --> 00:19:09,440
people like going to work in, 
right? 

454
00:19:09,530 --> 00:19:12,900
There are plenty of schools 
where staff retention is great. 

455
00:19:12,970 --> 00:19:15,310
People love working. 
And they get good results out of

456
00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:16,660
their kids. 
And there are plenty of schools 

457
00:19:16,670 --> 00:19:19,860
that are Ofsted graded good or 
outstanding that are horrendous 

458
00:19:19,870 --> 00:19:21,660
to work in. 
We've got a really good example 

459
00:19:21,670 --> 00:19:25,220
in a minute to share with you. 
They still, they might get their

460
00:19:25,230 --> 00:19:27,540
progress, but they're horrible, 
horrible places to work in. 

461
00:19:27,550 --> 00:19:29,260
So what is the difference 
between them? 

462
00:19:29,330 --> 00:19:31,920
How can we make them better? 
And I think one of the biggest 

463
00:19:31,930 --> 00:19:34,920
rises we've seen over the last, 
I guess, decade, I suppose since

464
00:19:34,930 --> 00:19:39,200
we've been in school is the rise
of the kind of really harsh 

465
00:19:39,210 --> 00:19:41,900
hardline Victorian style inner 
City Schools. 

466
00:19:42,070 --> 00:19:45,470
You think of Michaela that score
with them, the head teacher 

467
00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:47,850
who's apparently or the 
strictest head teacher in the 

468
00:19:47,860 --> 00:19:52,050
land and they get amazing 
progress data, unbelievable data

469
00:19:52,060 --> 00:19:54,550
for children in in inner city 
London, I think. 

470
00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:58,660
So this is just in London and 
the name of the staff that 

471
00:19:58,670 --> 00:20:01,000
worked there slipped my mind. 
But if the school's called 

472
00:20:01,010 --> 00:20:04,440
Michaela right, gets really good
data progress points, They were 

473
00:20:04,450 --> 00:20:06,170
released recently, like, 
honestly, like probably. 

474
00:20:06,180 --> 00:20:09,410
I think she was one in the 
country, like top ten at least. 

475
00:20:09,420 --> 00:20:11,710
OK yeah. 
So unbelievable results for the 

476
00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:13,610
children, which you can't turn 
your nose up, like. 

477
00:20:13,620 --> 00:20:15,840
No, that's fantastic. 
Because that is at the end of 

478
00:20:15,850 --> 00:20:18,040
the day, one of the biggest 
reasons we're in school is to 

479
00:20:18,050 --> 00:20:20,310
get that. 
But the very, very, very 

480
00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:22,650
negative press for how they go 
about it, OK? 

481
00:20:22,660 --> 00:20:25,550
And we see high levels of 
exclusion that we'll talk about.

482
00:20:26,020 --> 00:20:30,270
High levels of staff turnover, 
high expectations from staff, 

483
00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,760
horrible workload. 
Horrible kind of place to be. 

484
00:20:33,820 --> 00:20:35,570
If you're a staff member. 
It's not a nice place to be 

485
00:20:35,580 --> 00:20:39,300
unless you're in that mindset of
this work is my life and they 

486
00:20:39,310 --> 00:20:41,930
get results and this. 
I guess this whole point here is

487
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:43,830
we're going to try and balance 
that. 

488
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:47,650
And I think whilst progress is 
really important, I suppose the 

489
00:20:47,660 --> 00:20:50,250
foundation we're going to lay 
here is we're going to come at 

490
00:20:50,260 --> 00:20:52,720
this from the perspective of the
well-being of the teachers and 

491
00:20:52,730 --> 00:20:54,220
the staff. 
Yeah, sorry, the teachers and 

492
00:20:54,230 --> 00:20:55,470
the and the children. 
Yeah, Yeah. 

493
00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:57,520
So of course there's different 
ways to make progress. 

494
00:20:58,230 --> 00:21:00,600
Fine. 
But we're going to say right now

495
00:21:00,650 --> 00:21:03,220
a bad school is a school where 
you hate going into work. 

496
00:21:03,230 --> 00:21:06,000
Yeah, like you just said. 
So we can't start this 

497
00:21:06,010 --> 00:21:08,800
conversation without referencing
something that came up this 

498
00:21:08,810 --> 00:21:10,100
week. 
So Hayden take over for? 

499
00:21:10,110 --> 00:21:13,130
Well, Dylan messaged me the 
other day and sent me a link, 

500
00:21:13,140 --> 00:21:16,120
which has obviously gone viral 
because I've seen it in loads of

501
00:21:16,130 --> 00:21:19,370
places now of it. 
It was a letter. 

502
00:21:19,380 --> 00:21:21,600
Was it from the union? 
The actual letter it was from 

503
00:21:21,810 --> 00:21:24,580
the local executive order has 
NSFW. 

504
00:21:24,590 --> 00:21:26,080
Yeah, yeah. 
So they wrote it and it was a 

505
00:21:26,090 --> 00:21:27,740
letter to the parents, right, 
about what they're doing. 

506
00:21:27,750 --> 00:21:30,030
So. 
It's based around a a trust 

507
00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:35,050
called Australia Austria and no 
Australia Austria, Austria, 

508
00:21:35,120 --> 00:21:39,250
Austria, Austria. 
It's called Australia Australia.

509
00:21:40,670 --> 00:21:42,760
A terrible joke. 
No one's laughing at this point,

510
00:21:43,430 --> 00:21:44,870
everyone thinking about what was
in the letter. 

511
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:46,250
Yeah, yeah, you might have seen 
it. 

512
00:21:46,260 --> 00:21:48,300
So if you're in the teaching 
world, you probably already seen

513
00:21:48,310 --> 00:21:49,950
it. 
So Super Australia, whatever you

514
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:51,660
want to call it. 
Australia, they're a trust, 

515
00:21:51,670 --> 00:21:52,380
right? 
Yeah. 

516
00:21:52,430 --> 00:21:55,960
And they have a big trusts in 
the Midlands schools and they're

517
00:21:55,970 --> 00:21:59,360
known for being extremely 
strict, extremely militant. 

518
00:21:59,490 --> 00:22:03,270
And there's a particular school,
St Ivo, which is what this 

519
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:07,440
letter is based around, who 
they've had a horrendous time. 

520
00:22:07,450 --> 00:22:08,610
Don't know. 
They've been in the trust for 

521
00:22:08,620 --> 00:22:09,750
long. 
I got the impression from the 

522
00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:11,750
letter that it's been. 
For the last couple of years, 

523
00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:13,430
perhaps they weren't in the 
trust before, but I don't know 

524
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:14,870
if that's true. 
Yeah. 

525
00:22:15,340 --> 00:22:18,000
Anyway, let's should we 
summarise some of the points 

526
00:22:18,010 --> 00:22:20,150
that have come out of this. 
So, so like the the point was 

527
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:21,800
the letters from the union, 
because the teachers are 

528
00:22:21,810 --> 00:22:23,810
striking, right? 
It's got to the point where the 

529
00:22:23,820 --> 00:22:26,670
teachers are striking in an 
individual school because of 

530
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:28,810
their work and condition. 
Striking against the trust. 

531
00:22:28,820 --> 00:22:31,850
So the trust are in charge 
saying Ivo have their own 

532
00:22:31,860 --> 00:22:34,490
leadership whose hands seem to 
be quite tied here. 

533
00:22:34,660 --> 00:22:37,090
They can't have the authority to
make any decisions. 

534
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:38,980
But at the same time, the 
leaders of the trust are saying,

535
00:22:38,990 --> 00:22:40,970
well, it's a local issue, we 
can't do anything, so nothing's 

536
00:22:40,980 --> 00:22:43,490
getting done. 
So what has been happening in 

537
00:22:43,500 --> 00:22:45,670
this school? 
Yeah, that means that we've 

538
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:47,490
ended up having an individual 
school. 

539
00:22:47,540 --> 00:22:50,270
It's taking strike, actually. 
It's ridiculously draconian. 

540
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:52,390
So there's a few points and 
we'll go back and forth, so I'm 

541
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:56,030
gonna mention one. 
So from this letter, apparently 

542
00:22:56,100 --> 00:22:59,550
the staff there, they've 
introduced a dress code that is 

543
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:04,000
so strict that basically no one 
can deviate from like one 

544
00:23:04,010 --> 00:23:05,610
particular outfit. 
And people are saying it's 

545
00:23:05,620 --> 00:23:10,290
really not very modern and it 
goes against a lot, a lot of 

546
00:23:10,300 --> 00:23:13,100
modern rights for people and how
they want to dress and represent

547
00:23:13,110 --> 00:23:14,400
them. 
Especially women, apparently. 

548
00:23:14,470 --> 00:23:15,740
Yeah, it did say especially 
women. 

549
00:23:15,750 --> 00:23:18,880
So I Christ knows what. 
High heels and skirts, please, 

550
00:23:18,890 --> 00:23:20,360
probably. 
It's probably is something like 

551
00:23:20,370 --> 00:23:21,840
that. 
Your high heels and skirts and 

552
00:23:21,850 --> 00:23:24,220
and a we don't know. 
Just put that out there. 

553
00:23:24,230 --> 00:23:25,390
No, but it's gonna be something 
like that. 

554
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:26,900
So that was one point. 
And it's expensive. 

555
00:23:27,810 --> 00:23:30,720
Yeah, they said the uniform is 
expensive and the only thing 

556
00:23:30,730 --> 00:23:33,080
they've given back on that is, 
OK, we'll phase it in. 

557
00:23:33,090 --> 00:23:35,070
So it's not, not. 
Got a straight away I'm not 

558
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:36,450
gonna do it. 
The thing that got me this is 

559
00:23:36,460 --> 00:23:38,550
the most ridiculous thing I've 
ever seen and it's you know 

560
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:40,090
those those jokes you make 
before. 

561
00:23:40,100 --> 00:23:41,460
Yeah. 
And we talked about not having a

562
00:23:41,470 --> 00:23:43,000
chair and we were like, that's 
meant that was real. 

563
00:23:43,010 --> 00:23:44,860
But that's that's that's as bad 
as it gets. 

564
00:23:44,870 --> 00:23:47,660
Kind of start from you got chair
in classroom. 

565
00:23:47,670 --> 00:23:48,660
Sit down. 
No. 

566
00:23:48,670 --> 00:23:51,280
I guess What You can't have 
lined paper on your desk. 

567
00:23:51,610 --> 00:23:54,470
What What kind of lined paper? 
Not allowed. 

568
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,080
You know what It's a distraction
from the learning. 

569
00:23:57,090 --> 00:23:58,450
You can't have lined paper. 
Yes. 

570
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,260
And did you just move the bin 
from the assigned place for the 

571
00:24:01,270 --> 00:24:04,270
bin to be in the classroom? 
That the letter said that if the

572
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,890
bin wasn't in the assigned place
then it would be disciplinary 

573
00:24:07,900 --> 00:24:10,450
action for the staff member in 
disciplinary action. 

574
00:24:10,460 --> 00:24:11,650
Do you know what I want to put 
in the bin? 

575
00:24:12,180 --> 00:24:16,190
Ostrich, Australia, Australia. 
Australia, Australia, Australia 

576
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,370
can go in the bin, OK. 
Unbelievable. 

577
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:22,200
MAD and also posters. 
Apparently they're not allowed 

578
00:24:22,210 --> 00:24:26,130
posters on the walls unless it's
like the Trusts own posters. 

579
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,460
Propaganda isn't. 
This is like Mussolini in Italy.

580
00:24:29,630 --> 00:24:33,600
She she Austria, Austria, 
Austria. 

581
00:24:34,090 --> 00:24:36,080
That's unbelievable, man. 
Apparently is a lot more. 

582
00:24:36,090 --> 00:24:38,520
But yeah, yeah, so it's it's 
horribly militant. 

583
00:24:39,220 --> 00:24:41,480
And treat the school, treat the 
staff awful. 

584
00:24:41,490 --> 00:24:43,380
Treat the children. 
Awfully high levels of 

585
00:24:43,390 --> 00:24:45,420
exclusion. 
Yeah, we see this a lot in Multi

586
00:24:45,430 --> 00:24:47,500
Academy Trust where they come in
and like, cool, we gotta make 

587
00:24:47,510 --> 00:24:49,780
data better. 
How can we make data better? 

588
00:24:49,850 --> 00:24:51,840
Hmm. 
Let me think, What are we going 

589
00:24:51,850 --> 00:24:53,500
to do with the children? 
Have low data. 

590
00:24:53,570 --> 00:24:55,080
Bye bye. 
See you later. 

591
00:24:55,090 --> 00:24:58,940
What's really interesting was 
they did so typical. 

592
00:24:59,220 --> 00:25:01,270
Kind of trust where they only 
care about the progress data, 

593
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:02,810
right? 
That is the only thing that's 

594
00:25:02,820 --> 00:25:04,310
important. 
Well, they did a survey in the 

595
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:05,500
school. 
I was reading through the 

596
00:25:05,510 --> 00:25:08,930
website, like the parent website
they've got from the school and 

597
00:25:08,940 --> 00:25:11,010
they did a survey in the school.
And I was just looking at some 

598
00:25:11,020 --> 00:25:13,890
of the data from the survey and 
they were asking children and 

599
00:25:13,900 --> 00:25:16,170
parents and families things 
like, is your child happy at 

600
00:25:16,180 --> 00:25:18,870
school and do they suffer with 
any like mental anxiety and 

601
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:20,130
depression? 
What sorts of things? 

602
00:25:20,140 --> 00:25:23,780
And it was so high. 
Like horribly, horribly high 

603
00:25:23,820 --> 00:25:26,050
where these kids are not 
enjoying being at this, this 

604
00:25:26,060 --> 00:25:29,490
work, that this school. 
And that's to me is the crux of 

605
00:25:29,500 --> 00:25:32,490
the issue. 
OK, as teachers, we're adults. 

606
00:25:32,500 --> 00:25:35,070
We can vouch for ourselves. 
You know, we can argue against 

607
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,370
something. 
We can take them to the union 

608
00:25:37,380 --> 00:25:40,130
and strike. 
The children don't have a voice 

609
00:25:40,140 --> 00:25:42,010
here. 
They're born in that area. 

610
00:25:42,020 --> 00:25:44,000
That's their local school. 
There's no other places. 

611
00:25:44,010 --> 00:25:46,170
They've got to go there and it's
horrendous. 

612
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,140
And and that's where it kind of 
kicks in for me and stop being 

613
00:25:49,150 --> 00:25:50,810
funny and starts being serious. 
Yeah. 

614
00:25:50,860 --> 00:25:54,270
And I know you spoke to a mum 
from the area because you spoke 

615
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,940
online to one of the parents 
from someone whose child goes to

616
00:25:56,950 --> 00:25:59,310
that school and she was 
devastated. 

617
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:00,820
Yeah, yeah. 
She said it was. 

618
00:26:00,830 --> 00:26:03,030
I mean, she didn't say much 
other than agreeing with 

619
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,350
everything in this letter and 
saying it is just, she said it 

620
00:26:05,360 --> 00:26:07,580
was a nightmare. 
Was her word a nightmare that 

621
00:26:07,590 --> 00:26:09,160
her child goes there? 
Because I've got lots of 

622
00:26:09,170 --> 00:26:10,120
schools? 
Yeah, I think. 

623
00:26:10,130 --> 00:26:11,840
I think it was that school. 
It was one of the other schools,

624
00:26:11,850 --> 00:26:14,260
Yeah, but, but, but, but they 
OK. 

625
00:26:14,270 --> 00:26:16,900
What other schools have we got? 
Another Austria school, Yeah. 

626
00:26:16,910 --> 00:26:19,600
Well, under Austria, yeah. 
Never got 41. 

627
00:26:19,610 --> 00:26:21,380
Austria, like all the schools in
one area. 

628
00:26:21,450 --> 00:26:22,720
Sorry mate. 
Do you wanna go travel now? 

629
00:26:22,730 --> 00:26:24,390
An hour and a half? 
This is dreadful cause. 

630
00:26:24,970 --> 00:26:26,480
I mean, we've talked about this 
a lot and we've kind of 

631
00:26:26,490 --> 00:26:28,780
mentioned it already ironically 
at the start of this episode 

632
00:26:28,790 --> 00:26:31,380
about trying to make your kids 
happy and and that's how you 

633
00:26:31,390 --> 00:26:33,550
build good rapport with them. 
And these, these these staff, 

634
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:36,100
they're not allowed to do that. 
They're just not allowed. 

635
00:26:36,110 --> 00:26:39,560
Which would if if you were told 
no, next time you do the 

636
00:26:39,570 --> 00:26:41,780
register like that again and 
that's disciplinary action. 

637
00:26:41,790 --> 00:26:44,420
Take their names silently and if
they answer you back, they're 

638
00:26:44,430 --> 00:26:47,370
out of the park. 
When they said take the name 

639
00:26:47,380 --> 00:26:49,400
silently and mouth it to them. 
Yeah. 

640
00:26:50,550 --> 00:26:52,490
Yeah. 
Then that's it. 

641
00:26:52,500 --> 00:26:53,410
You're out. 
You're fired now. 

642
00:26:53,420 --> 00:26:54,940
OK, bye. 
But you're being horrible, isn't

643
00:26:54,950 --> 00:26:56,400
it? 
Taking away your autonomy, Yeah,

644
00:26:56,470 --> 00:26:58,380
yeah. 
And I think this links really 

645
00:26:58,390 --> 00:27:01,340
nicely into the kind of the list
we've put together. 

646
00:27:01,490 --> 00:27:04,340
So this whole thing kind of 
sparked this idea of Hayden and 

647
00:27:04,350 --> 00:27:05,680
I. 
We've worked in different 

648
00:27:05,690 --> 00:27:07,260
schools. 
We've seen first-hand how 

649
00:27:07,270 --> 00:27:09,160
schools can be very different 
from one another. 

650
00:27:09,250 --> 00:27:14,080
And I think we've got a nice 
list here about what you would 

651
00:27:14,090 --> 00:27:16,470
see in a school where you do not
want to work. 

652
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,450
Yeah, What are you gonna see? 
And we've taken some ideas from 

653
00:27:19,460 --> 00:27:22,260
other people because I know last
week, unbelievably, we finished 

654
00:27:22,270 --> 00:27:23,480
the top five reasons people are 
quitting. 

655
00:27:23,490 --> 00:27:25,270
And I was like, we didn't talk 
about behaviour. 

656
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,780
That's a huge thing right now. 
So we put ourselves out there a 

657
00:27:28,790 --> 00:27:30,780
bit, asking people for some 
advice and we've got a list 

658
00:27:30,790 --> 00:27:33,850
we're gonna work through. 
So for anyone who's working in a

659
00:27:33,860 --> 00:27:36,880
school, that's awful. 
Do you see yourself here, anyone

660
00:27:36,890 --> 00:27:39,030
who's working in a school that 
they think is bad? 

661
00:27:39,120 --> 00:27:41,910
Well maybe you'll read this and 
you think, well actually it's 

662
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,140
not too bad and if your parents,
this is something to look out 

663
00:27:45,150 --> 00:27:46,590
for and it's something I'm 
really passionate about. 

664
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:50,790
Hayden is any parents listening?
Do not just go off the one word 

665
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,030
Ofsted report. 
You want to be looking for these

666
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,410
kind of things because if your 
staff are not happy in a school 

667
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,030
it will feed down to the 
children and that's important. 

668
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,510
And even progress data, like 
we're saying right now even 

669
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,100
progress data isn't the be all 
end all because if your child is

670
00:28:04,110 --> 00:28:07,160
not happy at school, there's 
like are we just going to 

671
00:28:07,170 --> 00:28:09,870
pretend that's not important? 
I'll let you decide. 

672
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,740
So yeah, I asked a few people 
online kind of what their 

673
00:28:12,750 --> 00:28:13,870
experiences were. 
And. 

674
00:28:13,980 --> 00:28:16,380
What they thought it was a 
mixture of teachers and parents.

675
00:28:16,390 --> 00:28:17,650
Wasn't it? 
Yeah, it wasn't there. 

676
00:28:17,660 --> 00:28:18,800
Yeah, it was. 
Yeah. 

677
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:20,440
And here are some things. 
If you want to jump in at any 

678
00:28:20,450 --> 00:28:22,390
point, feel free. 
I'm gonna read off this list. 

679
00:28:22,430 --> 00:28:25,220
So the first one was that the 
terrible score is when there's 

680
00:28:25,230 --> 00:28:28,590
an embedded expectation that you
will sacrifice your time for the

681
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:30,320
job. 
I think, I think what would be 

682
00:28:30,330 --> 00:28:32,450
good if we go through this, I'm 
going to try and play the 

683
00:28:32,460 --> 00:28:35,330
opposite, OK, So I'm going to 
come through and be like I agree

684
00:28:35,340 --> 00:28:39,460
with this, but I suppose 
embedded expectation is that not

685
00:28:39,470 --> 00:28:41,590
the same everywhere. 
Is that not just part of being a

686
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,100
teacher? 
Or part of working in a way. 

687
00:28:44,220 --> 00:28:45,560
It's kind of an expectation in 
there. 

688
00:28:45,570 --> 00:28:49,060
I guess it was the IT was the 
idea that you will sacrifice any

689
00:28:49,070 --> 00:28:51,760
time for the job. 
And I suppose systems in other 

690
00:28:51,770 --> 00:28:55,260
jobs outside of teaching are in 
place that if you do have to 

691
00:28:55,270 --> 00:28:57,820
sacrifice your time, here you 
go, here's more money over time 

692
00:28:57,830 --> 00:28:59,260
because we will pay you for that
overtime. 

693
00:28:59,270 --> 00:29:00,530
Yeah. 
But I agree. 

694
00:29:00,540 --> 00:29:02,560
This person, yeah, they were 
just making a really good point.

695
00:29:02,570 --> 00:29:05,690
I think about just there was 
just it's not even a question 

696
00:29:05,700 --> 00:29:06,810
embedded. 
It's not even asked. 

697
00:29:06,820 --> 00:29:09,000
Would you mind? 
I know this is more work and 

698
00:29:09,010 --> 00:29:11,330
your timetable is already full, 
but there's this thing that's 

699
00:29:11,340 --> 00:29:12,410
happened. 
Would you mind dealing with 

700
00:29:12,420 --> 00:29:13,990
this. 
It's just well, of course you 

701
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:15,260
will. 
You're a teacher, for example. 

702
00:29:15,270 --> 00:29:17,260
There is someone joining your 
class, someone joining your 

703
00:29:17,270 --> 00:29:18,650
school. 
You're in charge of their, you 

704
00:29:18,660 --> 00:29:20,450
know, programme that you're. 
You're their teacher. 

705
00:29:20,540 --> 00:29:22,350
Yeah. 
And you know, they've got some 

706
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,790
additional needs that either 
aren't funded or are just not 

707
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,690
not not well known yet. 
And then it's kind of just like,

708
00:29:28,700 --> 00:29:32,650
here you go, OK, that that only 
adds to what I've got to do. 

709
00:29:32,660 --> 00:29:35,610
Now if I've got to do anything 
bespoke for this person, which 

710
00:29:35,620 --> 00:29:37,090
I'm a teacher, of course I want 
to do. 

711
00:29:37,100 --> 00:29:39,980
That's why I'm teaching, to want
to help every single child. 

712
00:29:40,020 --> 00:29:43,210
But that does mean that that 
overrides my actual time. 

713
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:45,910
We talked last week. 
We mentioned we about how. 

714
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:50,660
The makeup of your class, which 
is potluck, complete potluck, it

715
00:29:50,670 --> 00:29:53,360
is a factor in in terms of like 
why some teachers are quitting. 

716
00:29:53,370 --> 00:29:56,390
Because if you're just unlucky. 
And in terms of you have a class

717
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,200
that just requires 10 more hours
a week of your time because 

718
00:29:59,210 --> 00:30:02,020
you've got to plan individual 
things for children, which is 

719
00:30:02,030 --> 00:30:03,560
part of your job and you have to
do it. 

720
00:30:03,570 --> 00:30:06,040
And we agree that it should be 
done because it's about outcomes

721
00:30:06,050 --> 00:30:09,240
for these children, but it's 10 
more hours of your of your week 

722
00:30:09,250 --> 00:30:10,860
and you're not getting paid 
anymore for it. 

723
00:30:10,910 --> 00:30:12,440
So it's that kind of point. 
I think it's just an 

724
00:30:12,450 --> 00:30:14,920
expectation. 
Now you're just sacrifice that 

725
00:30:14,930 --> 00:30:16,500
time. 
Well that's time of your newborn

726
00:30:16,510 --> 00:30:17,500
baby. 
Exactly. 

727
00:30:17,510 --> 00:30:20,360
And that now that's the thing 
now where I, you know, honestly 

728
00:30:20,370 --> 00:30:24,070
beforehand I was kind of moving 
towards saying no, umm, at this 

729
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:27,450
point I I will not do it like 
I'm I just won't. 

730
00:30:27,580 --> 00:30:30,260
And if it is an issue, I'd like,
I won't go with it ballsy and 

731
00:30:30,270 --> 00:30:33,440
say, well I'm not no, it's wrong
because I know things have to 

732
00:30:33,450 --> 00:30:34,130
get done. 
Yeah. 

733
00:30:34,180 --> 00:30:37,370
I will go to it with the idea of
OK, how can we solve this then? 

734
00:30:37,420 --> 00:30:40,210
Yeah, because it will not be 
solved by me doing 5 hours of. 

735
00:30:40,220 --> 00:30:42,410
Extra on Sunday. 
Yeah, that's not solution. 

736
00:30:42,420 --> 00:30:46,150
So let's think of a solution 
where it's built in, and I'm not

737
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:47,860
doing that actually, because I'm
not gonna do it. 

738
00:30:48,100 --> 00:30:50,820
I think the next one I'm gonna 
come in cause the next two kind 

739
00:30:50,830 --> 00:30:52,350
of go together, I think. 
Yeah. 

740
00:30:52,460 --> 00:30:55,490
And it's something I really feel
passionately about and because 

741
00:30:55,500 --> 00:30:59,100
I've seen it first hand and I 
know how I react to management 

742
00:30:59,110 --> 00:31:03,030
who do this and it's it, it 
forms how we manage our tutoring

743
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:03,690
business. 
I think. 

744
00:31:03,700 --> 00:31:05,350
I hope. 
I really hope it does, and how 

745
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,610
we interact with people as mass 
leads and things like that is 

746
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:14,310
the idea that working in a 
school where it feels like the 

747
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:18,510
only thing that ever comes down 
from the top is negativity. 

748
00:31:18,590 --> 00:31:20,450
Things that have to improve, 
things that have to improve, 

749
00:31:20,490 --> 00:31:22,580
only ever things have to 
improve, have to improve. 

750
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:26,920
And this idea that, you know, 
the baseline is this is not good

751
00:31:26,930 --> 00:31:29,060
enough. 
Yeah, that's the idea ahead. 

752
00:31:29,070 --> 00:31:31,360
And some would say that's a 
healthy thing in some 

753
00:31:31,370 --> 00:31:32,790
businesses. 
Yeah, you can always improve. 

754
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:33,430
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

755
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,300
But as a staff team, that is. 
Exhausting. 

756
00:31:36,310 --> 00:31:38,500
It's been really taken out of 
proportion because I would agree

757
00:31:38,510 --> 00:31:41,180
it is a healthy thing to have a 
mindset of I can always be 

758
00:31:41,190 --> 00:31:43,360
better. 
I do think that's healthy, but I

759
00:31:43,370 --> 00:31:45,410
don't think it's healthy when 
that's the only mindset. 

760
00:31:45,650 --> 00:31:48,850
Your mindset is also I I can, I 
can be better. 

761
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:50,660
Because I'm so terrible all the 
time. 

762
00:31:50,710 --> 00:31:52,580
That's what's really happened, 
isn't it? 

763
00:31:52,810 --> 00:31:55,680
You're not terrible all the 
time, and it's it manifests 

764
00:31:55,690 --> 00:31:57,780
itself in things like support 
plans. 

765
00:31:57,990 --> 00:31:59,490
Yeah. 
Observation, right? 

766
00:31:59,530 --> 00:32:02,860
If you are, I'm sorry. 
I again, maybe I'm wrong and I'd

767
00:32:02,870 --> 00:32:03,880
love to hear someone come back 
at me. 

768
00:32:03,890 --> 00:32:07,120
Maybe you can come back to me at
this if you give feedback to 

769
00:32:07,130 --> 00:32:10,570
someone about their lesson and 
they cry. 

770
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:14,610
Yeah. 
Over 90% of the time that's your

771
00:32:14,620 --> 00:32:18,140
fault for your feedback. 
Like I I I really do think that 

772
00:32:18,150 --> 00:32:20,790
that is you've got to look at 
yourself when that happens. 

773
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,140
There are some situations, 
obviously, where someone's maybe

774
00:32:23,150 --> 00:32:24,390
going through something else and
it triggers. 

775
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:26,950
Something or to be fair, some 
people are just really hard on 

776
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,060
themselves and it doesn't matter
what the outcome was going to be

777
00:32:30,070 --> 00:32:31,950
like, you know, in terms, it 
doesn't matter how you 

778
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:33,290
delivered. 
If there was something slightly 

779
00:32:33,300 --> 00:32:35,600
negative, you could have said 19
positive things. 

780
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:37,980
One negative thing really tried 
hard and they will still cry. 

781
00:32:37,990 --> 00:32:40,620
So I think there are going to be
people who, I suppose, react 

782
00:32:40,630 --> 00:32:41,680
different. 
Moving on to that, then, what 

783
00:32:41,690 --> 00:32:43,940
would that look like in a school
that's awful to work in? 

784
00:32:44,010 --> 00:32:45,880
It would look like that 
consistently. 

785
00:32:45,890 --> 00:32:48,400
Whenever there's a yeah, 
whenever there's observations, 

786
00:32:48,450 --> 00:32:49,980
someone's crying. 
Yeah, And it's a cross. 

787
00:32:49,990 --> 00:32:52,590
And I tell you what it looked 
like is those same people, when 

788
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,580
observation is coming up, 
extremely anxious, already 

789
00:32:55,590 --> 00:32:58,100
getting upset. 
If if that's a massive sign. 

790
00:32:58,150 --> 00:33:00,550
If someone getting upset 
beforehand hasn't even happened 

791
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:02,980
yet, then you know that they 
that they know. 

792
00:33:02,990 --> 00:33:05,280
The only thing is going to be 
the culture is negative. 

793
00:33:06,020 --> 00:33:08,940
But moving on to the next point,
micromanaging this. 

794
00:33:08,950 --> 00:33:10,620
This came up a lot when I was 
talking to. 

795
00:33:10,700 --> 00:33:13,590
People, it's just that idea of 
and again it goes removing 

796
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:17,960
point, removing autonomy, being 
micromanaged too much makes the 

797
00:33:17,970 --> 00:33:20,660
workplace horrendous people. 
So do you think there's any, do 

798
00:33:20,670 --> 00:33:23,250
you think there are any 
positives ever to a school 

799
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:27,310
having really fine rules details
in place that they say you have 

800
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,910
to do this? 
I mean, I I, I think the kind of

801
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:34,490
have to have that and I I think 
micromanaging to me is you can 

802
00:33:34,500 --> 00:33:37,240
have those things in place, but 
it's not letting people just go 

803
00:33:37,250 --> 00:33:40,010
and do them and explore and find
the mistakes themselves and and 

804
00:33:40,020 --> 00:33:42,430
just learn how to do. 
Maybe there is a really, really 

805
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,190
strict policy and it's super 
fine, all these little details, 

806
00:33:45,540 --> 00:33:48,600
but just let OK, give them the 
policy, let your staff do it. 

807
00:33:48,610 --> 00:33:51,040
Let them have a go and then 
review it in a few months, OK, 

808
00:33:51,050 --> 00:33:54,130
well, that's not working. 
I wonder why it's all either all

809
00:33:54,140 --> 00:33:58,030
of my staff are terrible or 
maybe maybe my policy is a 

810
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,460
little bit too bitty. 
Rather than just constantly 

811
00:34:01,470 --> 00:34:04,250
being on your car every single 
day, micromanaging. 

812
00:34:04,260 --> 00:34:06,350
Have done this, done that. 
I've checked this, but I've done

813
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:07,980
this. 
No one likes that. 

814
00:34:08,710 --> 00:34:12,580
The ultimate example of that is 
when something's introduced, OK?

815
00:34:12,620 --> 00:34:17,179
And as professionals you feel 
not heard because something 

816
00:34:17,190 --> 00:34:20,020
might be brought into with 
really good intent, Really good 

817
00:34:20,030 --> 00:34:21,900
intent. 
We're going to start doing this 

818
00:34:21,909 --> 00:34:25,820
in our music curriculum, OK? 
When the staff team turn around 

819
00:34:25,830 --> 00:34:29,280
and all of them think that 
that's a bad idea and they say 

820
00:34:29,290 --> 00:34:31,860
no, I don't think so. 
Because XI don't think so. 

821
00:34:31,870 --> 00:34:35,190
Because of Yi don't think so 
because of ZI think in a bad 

822
00:34:35,199 --> 00:34:36,969
school that's completely 
ignored. 

823
00:34:37,020 --> 00:34:39,530
Yeah, in in a school that's 
awful to work in your 

824
00:34:39,540 --> 00:34:42,409
professional judgement as the 
literal people who deliver the 

825
00:34:42,420 --> 00:34:46,610
change that's being implemented.
So the teaching staff who are 

826
00:34:46,620 --> 00:34:48,550
going to be delivering this 
change, you're trying to put in 

827
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:52,060
place, if they are saying no, 
that needs to be top of the. 

828
00:34:52,070 --> 00:34:53,770
OK, well, why? 
Let's find out. 

829
00:34:53,780 --> 00:34:56,139
Yeah. 
Because then a good leadership 

830
00:34:56,150 --> 00:34:58,380
might come along and say, well, 
we wanted to introduce this 

831
00:34:58,390 --> 00:35:01,020
because we need to do that. 
And then the teacher can say, 

832
00:35:01,030 --> 00:35:02,310
OK, well, maybe we can do it 
this way. 

833
00:35:02,350 --> 00:35:04,820
Maybe it's that way because the 
way you're telling us to do this

834
00:35:04,830 --> 00:35:06,820
now is not gonna work. 
Yeah. 

835
00:35:06,830 --> 00:35:08,600
And here are the reasons. 
To add to that point slightly 

836
00:35:08,610 --> 00:35:10,140
more, because you did kind of 
address it really. 

837
00:35:10,150 --> 00:35:13,420
I think it's also bad management
though to do the complete 

838
00:35:13,430 --> 00:35:15,960
opposite, which is all your 
staff team say no, so you don't 

839
00:35:15,970 --> 00:35:18,320
do it automatically, yeah. 
It has to be, and you were 

840
00:35:18,330 --> 00:35:20,550
basically just fleshing that out
right then. 

841
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,360
There has to be a middle ground 
of if all of your staff are 

842
00:35:23,370 --> 00:35:26,870
saying no, the least you can do 
is listen to their concerns and 

843
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:31,510
as a as a good manager try to 
come to a conclusion about right

844
00:35:31,580 --> 00:35:34,250
is there validity in why 
everyone thinks is bad? 

845
00:35:34,260 --> 00:35:36,760
The chances are there is if 
everyone thinks it's bad for 

846
00:35:36,770 --> 00:35:38,190
sure. 
What often happens in schools. 

847
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:40,730
I know this is every school ever
I've hopefully people nodding 

848
00:35:40,740 --> 00:35:42,920
like, yeah, there's always going
to be one staff member that 

849
00:35:42,930 --> 00:35:46,370
resists any change anyway 
because it's just different and 

850
00:35:46,380 --> 00:35:47,530
it doesn't mean that. 
Bad. 

851
00:35:47,540 --> 00:35:48,240
Does it? 
No. 

852
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,170
Yeah, doesn't mean it's bad, but
like, yeah, so I suppose in in a

853
00:35:51,240 --> 00:35:53,450
in a school that's terrible to 
work in things to look out for 

854
00:35:53,460 --> 00:35:57,250
red flags, when when management 
basically work completely 

855
00:35:57,260 --> 00:36:00,260
separately to the teaching team,
Yeah, there's no, they're 

856
00:36:00,270 --> 00:36:01,990
completely separate. 
Like our government. 

857
00:36:02,550 --> 00:36:05,230
Our government. 
So the education secretary, who 

858
00:36:05,240 --> 00:36:07,910
is completely disassociated from
all of us, has nothing to do 

859
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:11,180
with teaching anything about it.
It's the same thing. 

860
00:36:11,190 --> 00:36:13,640
And we none of us respect her. 
Yeah, If literally 10s of 

861
00:36:13,650 --> 00:36:15,510
thousands, I think, if not 
hundreds of thousands of 

862
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:20,690
teachers are saying this, the 
thing we do 60 hours a week 

863
00:36:20,870 --> 00:36:25,040
isn't is completely broken. 
And then the people in charge 

864
00:36:25,050 --> 00:36:27,590
go, no, I think you're the 
problem. 

865
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:31,850
Yeah, one person. 
I worked in a school, don't 

866
00:36:31,860 --> 00:36:36,750
really visit them often. 
Maybe it can't be me, maybe the 

867
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:38,790
teachers are the problem. 
Maybe it is the 100 thousands. 

868
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,230
Maybe it is the four days they 
head off instead of the millions

869
00:36:41,240 --> 00:36:44,730
of pounds they've lost. 
I I think it is actually. 

870
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:48,780
I'm going to record a video and 
post it on X GET in the bin GET.

871
00:36:48,790 --> 00:36:51,580
In the bin, just quick side 
point, did you see that video of

872
00:36:51,590 --> 00:36:56,470
Rishi Sunak with the transition?
So good, so good, so good. 

873
00:36:56,620 --> 00:37:00,700
He's clearly got a team around 
and got right Gen Z, they're 

874
00:37:00,710 --> 00:37:03,980
doing transitions non-stop, so 
whenever you want to make a 

875
00:37:03,990 --> 00:37:06,000
point, you just go up to the 
camera. 

876
00:37:06,150 --> 00:37:07,260
There you go. 
I'm doing it right now and 

877
00:37:07,270 --> 00:37:09,240
watching. 
Your hand to the camera. 

878
00:37:09,510 --> 00:37:16,640
Also, I'm going to be stopping 
the boats and I'm going to be 

879
00:37:16,930 --> 00:37:20,320
halving the inflation, which I 
don't have control over going 

880
00:37:20,330 --> 00:37:22,900
up, but when it goes down, I'll 
pretend I have control over it 

881
00:37:22,910 --> 00:37:25,580
and it'll be good for me and 
also. 

882
00:37:25,850 --> 00:37:27,860
For anyone listening, he is 
putting his hands on camera. 

883
00:37:27,990 --> 00:37:34,070
I'm going to also did I say stop
the boats, Please vote for me. 

884
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:35,510
What's the thing that will get 
the most votes? 

885
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:38,620
Just say five things over and 
over and. 

886
00:37:38,630 --> 00:37:40,680
I'll fix it. 
You know, I just, I know we got 

887
00:37:40,690 --> 00:37:42,430
off 1 slightly, but I promise I 
won't be too long. 

888
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:44,660
But I had a interesting 
conversation with my mum. 

889
00:37:44,670 --> 00:37:46,310
Don't hear it. 
You were like, this is 

890
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:48,270
political. 
He loves a political thing. 

891
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:53,020
And we were talking about like, 
we're going to the elderly 

892
00:37:53,030 --> 00:37:54,370
drivers. 
OK, all right. 

893
00:37:54,380 --> 00:37:55,530
Really random, random 
discussion. 

894
00:37:55,540 --> 00:37:58,570
And my mum was just basically 
quick to say, oh, a few years 

895
00:37:58,580 --> 00:38:01,950
ago there was definitely talk of
introducing a test for people 

896
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:05,490
over a certain age. 
Still drive or whatever, 

897
00:38:05,500 --> 00:38:07,400
essentially safely. 
Because there was a rise in 

898
00:38:07,610 --> 00:38:08,530
crashes and things. 
Yeah. 

899
00:38:08,570 --> 00:38:10,610
And. 
And she was like, yeah, I know 

900
00:38:10,620 --> 00:38:13,140
that's not coming. 
I was like, OK, who, who's the 

901
00:38:13,150 --> 00:38:15,090
primary voters for? 
For the Tories there? 

902
00:38:15,790 --> 00:38:18,120
Ohh, obviously older people. 
OK, well there you go then 

903
00:38:18,210 --> 00:38:20,980
nothing will ever get done. 
If it affects the largest voter 

904
00:38:20,990 --> 00:38:22,620
base, that's as simple as that. 
As well it was. 

905
00:38:22,630 --> 00:38:25,010
Teachers on the whole are never 
going to vote Tory. 

906
00:38:25,020 --> 00:38:27,460
Yeah, so why would they bother 
ever giving us anything? 

907
00:38:27,470 --> 00:38:29,080
Of course. 
Why do you think Rishi Sunak is 

908
00:38:29,090 --> 00:38:31,960
going back on all the green 
pledges after doing loads of 

909
00:38:31,970 --> 00:38:34,020
green stuff as the Chancellor 
under Boris Johnson? 

910
00:38:34,530 --> 00:38:36,690
Incredibly green, like 
government to be fair, did a lot

911
00:38:36,700 --> 00:38:38,800
of green stuff. 
Why do you think now he suddenly

912
00:38:38,810 --> 00:38:40,390
doesn't care and cares about 
them? 

913
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:42,990
Won't somebody please think of 
the motorist? 

914
00:38:43,060 --> 00:38:45,390
Won't somebody please think of 
the person in the one tonne 

915
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:46,970
metal vehicle? 
Ohh. 

916
00:38:46,980 --> 00:38:48,690
What they going to do? 
Just that they're gonna go 

917
00:38:48,700 --> 00:38:52,180
slower for a bit, mate. 
Yeah, they're gonna go a bit 

918
00:38:52,190 --> 00:38:56,020
slower and and the world's gonna
carry on, for God's sake. 

919
00:38:56,070 --> 00:38:58,740
Yep, Honestly. 
Anyway, back in the bad school, 

920
00:38:58,750 --> 00:39:00,720
Yeah, basically Soon. 
That would be in charge, yeah. 

921
00:39:00,730 --> 00:39:02,430
And he would just completely 
change his mind every three. 

922
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:04,040
Seconds, got some bad news for 
you, Yeah. 

923
00:39:05,370 --> 00:39:08,180
He's done everything of the 
whole thing. 

924
00:39:08,590 --> 00:39:11,940
So yeah, I mean, we're going off
on a bit because it's easy too. 

925
00:39:11,950 --> 00:39:14,940
But in a bad school, this is 
what we see. 

926
00:39:15,010 --> 00:39:18,640
Management separated from staff,
no autonomy for teachers, 

927
00:39:18,830 --> 00:39:22,500
micromanagement to the empty 
degree, general negative vibes 

928
00:39:22,510 --> 00:39:25,680
around the place and that can 
seep even from the staff room. 

929
00:39:25,750 --> 00:39:30,500
And the baseline of teachers, 
Yes, you are doing a bad job. 

930
00:39:30,550 --> 00:39:35,500
You have baseline and I suppose 
what I wanted to do was OK, 

931
00:39:35,550 --> 00:39:37,720
everything there is to do 
management and I think it's 

932
00:39:37,730 --> 00:39:40,570
really easy for us to just say 
OK, what makes a bad school 

933
00:39:40,660 --> 00:39:43,590
management. 
I wanna kind of push the boat 

934
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:46,010
out a bit and and think what 
else what, what other factors 

935
00:39:46,020 --> 00:39:48,790
are there as to why schools 
become a place that we don't 

936
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,490
want to work in. 
And I think the majority, sure, 

937
00:39:51,500 --> 00:39:53,950
it's down to management. 
But there's a lot of extreme 

938
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:57,160
like extremity factors. 
Extreme factors factors on the 

939
00:39:57,170 --> 00:40:00,220
outside that I think really can 
have a big part and you can work

940
00:40:00,230 --> 00:40:03,770
in a school with really strong 
leadership but this can still 

941
00:40:03,780 --> 00:40:05,890
make this make you dread going 
into work. 

942
00:40:05,900 --> 00:40:06,570
Yeah. 
OK. 

943
00:40:06,580 --> 00:40:08,570
And I think the biggest one at 
the minute, we missed it last 

944
00:40:08,580 --> 00:40:10,390
week is behaviour. 
Yeah. 

945
00:40:10,900 --> 00:40:14,820
That can really get people down.
And the point, I guess links 

946
00:40:14,830 --> 00:40:16,940
into something else. 
If you're in a year group that 

947
00:40:16,950 --> 00:40:19,280
you simply don't want to teach 
because you can just be moved, 

948
00:40:19,330 --> 00:40:20,420
Yeah, that's very, very. 
Easy. 

949
00:40:20,430 --> 00:40:21,880
You might just have a 
preference. 

950
00:40:21,890 --> 00:40:24,320
Yeah, I have a preference. 
And it doubles up with behaviour

951
00:40:24,330 --> 00:40:26,220
though. 
So you're in a year group, you 

952
00:40:26,230 --> 00:40:28,260
don't wanna teach and you've got
a class which again, like you 

953
00:40:28,270 --> 00:40:30,840
said, potluck just happened to 
be the most disruptive class 

954
00:40:30,850 --> 00:40:32,850
possible. 
Yeah, that's gonna affect your 

955
00:40:32,860 --> 00:40:34,800
mood. 
That's gonna affect your outlook

956
00:40:34,810 --> 00:40:36,750
and the school, no matter what's
happening. 

957
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,040
From and you happen to be 
working with a team that you 

958
00:40:39,050 --> 00:40:41,070
just don't gel with? 
Yeah, that's not because you're 

959
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:41,880
horrible. 
Horrible. 

960
00:40:41,890 --> 00:40:43,800
But you know, we don't. 
We're not all best friends, 

961
00:40:43,810 --> 00:40:45,280
everyone. 
We don't always gel with people.

962
00:40:45,290 --> 00:40:47,380
We have different personalities 
and people who work differently 

963
00:40:47,390 --> 00:40:48,940
to you. 
I've had this for sure, and I 

964
00:40:48,950 --> 00:40:51,230
know that I've been the person I
think I I. 

965
00:40:51,240 --> 00:40:52,190
Definitely. 
You're the outlier. 

966
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:54,920
Yeah. 
I've been the person who does 

967
00:40:54,930 --> 00:40:58,520
differently to like the other 
two or three, and maybe that 

968
00:40:58,530 --> 00:41:00,340
might be that the other two or 
three are just much more 

969
00:41:00,350 --> 00:41:04,180
organised and planned way ahead 
and then we share planning and I

970
00:41:04,190 --> 00:41:06,680
just don't. 
And it doesn't get to them in 

971
00:41:06,690 --> 00:41:08,880
the same timely manner as it 
gets to me. 

972
00:41:09,090 --> 00:41:11,990
I end up feeling bad because of 
it and they end up feeling rest,

973
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:13,390
I imagine because it's not how 
they would. 

974
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:15,790
Do it. 
And you made them quit, so they 

975
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:17,990
quit cause you're the problem. 
That's the answer to the 

976
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:21,100
question, yeah. 
What though, because I was 

977
00:41:21,110 --> 00:41:23,060
thinking about this, you did. 
You did mention this to me when 

978
00:41:23,070 --> 00:41:26,830
I was discussing ideas about the
the, the episode, and I think, 

979
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,870
pretend that we know what we're.
Talking, yeah, I still think 

980
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:32,590
they're really, really separate.
I I kind of put all those things

981
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:35,450
into just like a potluck 
category, whereas I think the 

982
00:41:35,460 --> 00:41:39,440
management thing not potluck. 
It's I guess it's potluck, no. 

983
00:41:39,450 --> 00:41:41,070
But I think it can be really 
easily controlled. 

984
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:43,460
You can't change the behaviour. 
It is kind of just luck, right? 

985
00:41:43,470 --> 00:41:45,570
Good point. 
You can't really change, like 

986
00:41:45,580 --> 00:41:48,300
it's not up to you as a staff 
member that you can't change the

987
00:41:48,310 --> 00:41:50,400
other staff members like 
personalities, really. 

988
00:41:50,410 --> 00:41:52,490
Like whether you tell them or 
not, it's kind of a you problem,

989
00:41:52,500 --> 00:41:54,980
but you can't change the 
leadership's personalities and 

990
00:41:54,990 --> 00:41:55,620
the way. 
They no. 

991
00:41:55,630 --> 00:41:57,580
But we can change the 
leadership, we can change the 

992
00:41:57,590 --> 00:42:00,350
staff. 
That's the, that's the, that's 

993
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:02,300
the outlook of some. 
People, yeah, I don't know. 

994
00:42:02,310 --> 00:42:03,760
It still feels different. 
I can't really work it. 

995
00:42:03,770 --> 00:42:06,200
It just feels different to me, 
like it's good for a podcast. 

996
00:42:06,210 --> 00:42:08,500
You can't wear something. 
Ohh wait. 

997
00:42:09,670 --> 00:42:11,350
I don't know if you're not, No. 
I'm playing out of gear. 

998
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:13,110
I think you're right. 
I think it can be more of a 

999
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:14,950
system. 
It's more systemic, the other 

1000
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:17,150
things. 
And with systemic stuff, you can

1001
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:18,610
uproot the systems and change 
them. 

1002
00:42:18,660 --> 00:42:20,090
Yeah. 
Whereas, you know, no matter 

1003
00:42:20,100 --> 00:42:22,990
what systems are in place, 
you're gonna get a child like a 

1004
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:23,950
class. 
That's boisterous. 

1005
00:42:24,240 --> 00:42:26,600
You're gonna get individuals 
that you just don't get on with.

1006
00:42:26,610 --> 00:42:28,190
Like you said, that's not bad. 
Not bad. 

1007
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:29,690
Teachers. 
There, but it might be because 

1008
00:42:29,700 --> 00:42:32,520
my point there, I guess it's 
because of your personality for 

1009
00:42:32,530 --> 00:42:33,650
those teachers didn't get on 
with you. 

1010
00:42:33,660 --> 00:42:36,200
Your personality. 
We might have gone, but I don't 

1011
00:42:36,210 --> 00:42:37,530
know, it just seems different to
me. 

1012
00:42:37,540 --> 00:42:40,190
Yeah, it's the systems in place.
You can change the policies. 

1013
00:42:40,290 --> 00:42:42,560
And if you've got a poor 
management team resisting these 

1014
00:42:42,570 --> 00:42:44,560
changes, it just makes a 
horrible place to work. 

1015
00:42:44,630 --> 00:42:46,580
OK, so how about this one then? 
This is, I suppose, my last 

1016
00:42:46,590 --> 00:42:48,590
point here about what makes bad 
schools before we go into our 

1017
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:51,930
solutions. 
What about then, if that's the 

1018
00:42:51,940 --> 00:42:53,790
case? 
The only way that we're ever 

1019
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:58,050
really going to change that is 
if the staff make a point and 

1020
00:42:58,100 --> 00:43:00,590
almost like they have at Saint 
Ivo and gone on strike and said 

1021
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:02,980
no, this is unacceptable. 
Yeah, because as long as there's

1022
00:43:02,990 --> 00:43:07,170
a lack of a drive to change 
anything, then that those things

1023
00:43:07,180 --> 00:43:08,850
at the top that can change 
won't. 

1024
00:43:08,900 --> 00:43:11,730
So it is is one of the biggest 
problems. 

1025
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:14,780
And I don't necessarily think 
this I'm asking you is is one of

1026
00:43:14,790 --> 00:43:17,970
the biggest problems that as 
teaching staff we tend to be a 

1027
00:43:17,980 --> 00:43:21,260
bit more passive, a bit more 
likely to sit in the staff room 

1028
00:43:21,270 --> 00:43:23,550
and have a moment of each other 
and a bit more likely to go home

1029
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:25,430
and, you know, let it affect our
personal lives. 

1030
00:43:25,720 --> 00:43:28,350
But realistically, from the top 
down, they think, well, they're 

1031
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:29,310
all doing it, isn't that. 
Great. 

1032
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:32,350
Yeah, definitely, definitely. 
I think absolutely on something 

1033
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:36,230
in terms of our culture that we 
impact, we all impact the 

1034
00:43:36,240 --> 00:43:37,320
culture. 
For sure. 

1035
00:43:37,370 --> 00:43:39,510
And if, yeah, you're right, it 
does happen a lot doesn't it? 

1036
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:41,710
Just moaning and then ohh, have 
you have you told the head 

1037
00:43:41,720 --> 00:43:43,160
teacher what you think? 
No. 

1038
00:43:43,270 --> 00:43:47,000
Yeah well you money then. 
Like I suppose if they're if 

1039
00:43:47,010 --> 00:43:49,840
you're in a good school, brings 
it back around. 

1040
00:43:49,850 --> 00:43:52,340
If you're in a good school, 
maybe you people do go and speak

1041
00:43:52,350 --> 00:43:55,160
and they feel like they can. 
The heads more proactive in 

1042
00:43:55,170 --> 00:43:57,360
asking. 
But there is the middle ground. 

1043
00:43:57,370 --> 00:44:01,410
You can still have schools where
you do have a nice SLT team, but

1044
00:44:01,420 --> 00:44:04,070
they just don't action anything.
I think that because we sort of 

1045
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:06,740
wrote that down, it is that lack
of drive. 

1046
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:08,410
Yeah, OK, You recognise these 
problems? 

1047
00:44:08,420 --> 00:44:09,760
We agree their problems are 
problems. 

1048
00:44:09,770 --> 00:44:10,970
Six months later, nothing's 
changed. 

1049
00:44:10,980 --> 00:44:13,430
Yeah, it's like, OK, that's 
probably a quality of a bad 

1050
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:14,820
score. 
It's just not maybe as bad as 

1051
00:44:14,830 --> 00:44:17,080
the ones that are like, no, we 
have, we absolutely disagree 

1052
00:44:17,090 --> 00:44:18,390
with you. 
And now you're on a support plan

1053
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:20,800
for mentioning it because that's
absolutely right. 

1054
00:44:20,810 --> 00:44:22,670
That lack of drive. 
The drive would just mean that 

1055
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:24,480
your life is even worse. 
Yeah, people just make that 

1056
00:44:24,490 --> 00:44:28,190
choice of, OK, my life like a 
three out of 10 now in this job.

1057
00:44:28,240 --> 00:44:30,430
But if I kick up a fuss, it'll 
be a solid one out of 10. 

1058
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:32,140
So I'll just keep the three out 
of 10. 

1059
00:44:32,150 --> 00:44:33,470
Yeah. 
And then that's just the worst 

1060
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:35,590
place to be in. 
So I I I don't think it's as 

1061
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:37,360
simple as me sitting here like I
sometimes do. 

1062
00:44:37,780 --> 00:44:40,430
You've just got to not do it. 
It's like, I know, I know, it's 

1063
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:41,990
tricky. 
Yeah, I reckon there are staff 

1064
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:44,470
like you and I that would be in 
places like St Ivo and 

1065
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:46,710
absolutely have been so ground 
down. 

1066
00:44:46,720 --> 00:44:49,830
We have no possible way of of 
being like that. 

1067
00:44:50,030 --> 00:44:52,110
So now we've done all the. 
Negative stuff. 

1068
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:54,490
Yeah, only 50 minutes of it. 
So we spend. 

1069
00:44:54,620 --> 00:44:58,130
I think I want to spend the next
little bit just thinking, OK, 

1070
00:44:58,180 --> 00:45:00,850
ideal school. 
What does it look like? 

1071
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:02,670
What can we do? 
How can we fix these problems? 

1072
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:05,030
I know we do this. 
It's all really positive. 

1073
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:07,560
Now let's play the Jingle and 
have a merry time. 

1074
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:08,740
Are you single? 
Then go on. 

1075
00:45:10,330 --> 00:45:16,400
Didn't. 
Didn't let's be positive. 

1076
00:45:16,470 --> 00:45:19,280
How can we run a school still 
going? 

1077
00:45:19,290 --> 00:45:22,740
We will make it good, but not 
good like Ousted. 

1078
00:45:22,810 --> 00:45:24,330
Good. 
Like what I think? 

1079
00:45:26,830 --> 00:45:29,180
Yeah, yeah. 
Good luck. 

1080
00:45:29,190 --> 00:45:29,790
What? 
I think. 

1081
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:31,140
I love that. 
That summarises you well, 

1082
00:45:31,150 --> 00:45:35,430
doesn't it? 
Not anybody else's opinion, but 

1083
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:38,430
mine. 
Dylan Price, That's me. 

1084
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:42,450
I'll spend 5 minutes trying to 
convince you that I'm right. 

1085
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:46,740
If you agree, then that's OK. 
If you don't, then you're wrong.

1086
00:45:46,750 --> 00:45:48,770
I'm not going to find it now 
this last minute, but yesterday 

1087
00:45:48,780 --> 00:45:50,900
you said something to me. 
We were talking and I didn't 

1088
00:45:50,910 --> 00:45:54,470
call you out on it, but it made 
me laugh so much you said the 

1089
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:59,740
phrase. 
You said actually, yeah, you 

1090
00:45:59,750 --> 00:46:01,450
said Ohh, come on, I'm gonna get
it wrong. 

1091
00:46:01,460 --> 00:46:02,740
I'll get it wrong. 
But it was. 

1092
00:46:02,750 --> 00:46:07,050
I think it was something like. 
You're absolutely, you're 

1093
00:46:07,060 --> 00:46:10,140
absolutely right, because I 
agree that was the phrase you 

1094
00:46:10,150 --> 00:46:16,640
used and I I remember typing. 
Right now you agree. 

1095
00:46:16,650 --> 00:46:19,750
So I'm right because you made a 
point that was slightly 

1096
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,040
different to mine. 
And I couldn't just say yeah, 

1097
00:46:22,050 --> 00:46:24,020
I'd say yeah, I also had that 
train thought. 

1098
00:46:24,030 --> 00:46:25,880
Yeah, and therefore it's it's 
more valid now. 

1099
00:46:25,890 --> 00:46:27,420
It's more valid now. 
Cause Dan Price agrees. 

1100
00:46:28,970 --> 00:46:31,810
Laughed. 
But let's fix this bloody 

1101
00:46:31,820 --> 00:46:33,690
school, shall we? 
Let's fix them, shall we? 

1102
00:46:33,700 --> 00:46:37,620
Move on from you. 
Embarrassing, right? 

1103
00:46:37,630 --> 00:46:42,360
So I'm sufficiently embarrassed.
Good Hayden, What can we do to 

1104
00:46:42,370 --> 00:46:43,630
fix these problems in the 
school? 

1105
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:44,860
What is it? 
Good school look. 

1106
00:46:44,870 --> 00:46:48,780
Like, it's all about trust. 
All about award loyalty, 

1107
00:46:48,950 --> 00:46:49,870
satisfaction. 
Yeah. 

1108
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:52,610
Well, when when I was having the
conversations with people about 

1109
00:46:52,620 --> 00:46:55,520
what makes negative schools, 
they were then inadvertently 

1110
00:46:55,570 --> 00:46:58,440
telling me what a good school is
and the good schools I've worked

1111
00:46:58,450 --> 00:46:58,780
in. 
Sure. 

1112
00:46:58,790 --> 00:47:01,140
And the biggest thing that came 
from it was this idea of trust. 

1113
00:47:01,150 --> 00:47:02,520
And I think it's quite a wide 
point. 

1114
00:47:02,590 --> 00:47:04,620
Maybe we can delve into it a bit
more. 

1115
00:47:04,670 --> 00:47:06,140
But it was always, yeah, just to
trust. 

1116
00:47:06,150 --> 00:47:08,270
Trusting me, trusting me as a 
teacher, trusting all your 

1117
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:10,440
staff, trusting that the right 
things are going on. 

1118
00:47:10,510 --> 00:47:12,800
So like, should we break that 
down a bit more? 

1119
00:47:12,870 --> 00:47:15,150
I suppose the opposite to that 
baseline which I spoke about, 

1120
00:47:15,220 --> 00:47:17,730
where a lot of schools and I've 
worked in a school where the 

1121
00:47:17,740 --> 00:47:20,490
baseline was, It's not good 
enough that I have thought very 

1122
00:47:20,500 --> 00:47:22,610
felt very clearly that it was 
cool. 

1123
00:47:22,620 --> 00:47:24,290
Fix that. 
And then I knew, OK, what's the 

1124
00:47:24,300 --> 00:47:25,490
next thing? 
It was never cool. 

1125
00:47:25,500 --> 00:47:26,850
It's working. 
Yeah, Never ever. 

1126
00:47:26,860 --> 00:47:28,450
Were you feeling like you're in 
a state of. 

1127
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:32,030
I'm just delivering and doing a 
good job, which is fine. 

1128
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:34,030
You can think that for even a 
term. 

1129
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:36,700
But there are some places where 
you can't think that for a day 

1130
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:38,350
and that's perpetuated by the 
top. 

1131
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:42,610
So I guess in a really good 
score whilst to trust, What do 

1132
00:47:42,620 --> 00:47:44,840
you think here? 
To me, trust doesn't mean we 

1133
00:47:44,850 --> 00:47:46,240
leave you to it all year. 
That's it. 

1134
00:47:46,250 --> 00:47:47,530
Yeah. 
And it's just then it's potluck 

1135
00:47:47,540 --> 00:47:49,440
from the SLT point of view, 
whether you're doing a good job 

1136
00:47:49,450 --> 00:47:50,490
or not. 
Yeah, I agree. 

1137
00:47:50,530 --> 00:47:53,310
Trust is is exactly what I'm 
gonna say. 

1138
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:56,620
What you're saying now is just 
the assumption that you're doing

1139
00:47:56,630 --> 00:47:59,420
a good job already. 
That's the that's the baseline 

1140
00:47:59,430 --> 00:48:00,760
assumption. 
You're doing a good job. 

1141
00:48:00,770 --> 00:48:02,420
We trust you cause we've 
employed you. 

1142
00:48:02,430 --> 00:48:04,490
If we didn't, we've done a 
terrible job of employment. 

1143
00:48:04,500 --> 00:48:06,540
Haven't we really Exactly. 
Like, we've known that. 

1144
00:48:06,890 --> 00:48:09,020
Linked to that is the idea of 
autonomy. 

1145
00:48:09,030 --> 00:48:10,570
So what would what would 
autonomy look like? 

1146
00:48:10,580 --> 00:48:12,120
Because I'm. 
I'm really interested in this 

1147
00:48:12,130 --> 00:48:15,550
because I think that if I was a 
member of SLT, in charge of a 

1148
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:18,460
school, I think that would be, I
would very easily fall into the 

1149
00:48:18,470 --> 00:48:20,080
trap. 
Jokes aside, like what you're 

1150
00:48:20,090 --> 00:48:23,800
saying, I will just think, well,
this is the way I do it, so it's

1151
00:48:23,810 --> 00:48:25,160
too inconsistent. 
I can't be. 

1152
00:48:25,170 --> 00:48:26,540
I can't be sure that it's 
happening. 

1153
00:48:26,550 --> 00:48:28,400
So, OK, you're all gonna do 
this. 

1154
00:48:28,410 --> 00:48:30,420
So where's the line for you of 
autonomy? 

1155
00:48:30,430 --> 00:48:31,020
In a good. 
School. 

1156
00:48:31,030 --> 00:48:32,880
I find this one really hard. 
I think you probably will as 

1157
00:48:32,890 --> 00:48:35,420
well for the same sort of 
reason, because I don't think 

1158
00:48:35,430 --> 00:48:38,500
it's good practise to have too 
much autonomy. 

1159
00:48:38,570 --> 00:48:40,420
OK, I don't think it would be 
good, right? 

1160
00:48:40,430 --> 00:48:41,900
If me and you weren't went to 
school. 

1161
00:48:41,910 --> 00:48:44,860
And between us and all the other
teachers we all had a completely

1162
00:48:44,870 --> 00:48:46,150
different way of teaching 
English. 

1163
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:47,960
Like you were like, hey, we've 
got, we've got a book for this 

1164
00:48:47,970 --> 00:48:49,180
time. 
We're going to do that and I'm 

1165
00:48:49,190 --> 00:48:51,360
like, no, I don't, I don't do, I
don't do texts at all. 

1166
00:48:51,370 --> 00:48:53,880
We do everything sentence level 
and then we do a bit of writing 

1167
00:48:53,890 --> 00:48:55,790
at the end and someone else has 
done something completely 

1168
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:57,660
different. 
I think that would be terrible 

1169
00:48:57,700 --> 00:49:02,110
because I don't think. 
That SLT, other than Potluck 

1170
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:04,150
because they could everyone 
could just be happened to be 

1171
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:05,350
really good at doing those 
things. 

1172
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:07,310
I think there's I don't think 
they could have a really good 

1173
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:10,930
hold on what their staff are 
doing and a good management 

1174
00:49:10,940 --> 00:49:11,690
system. 
They're OK. 

1175
00:49:11,700 --> 00:49:12,930
We can assess this. 
Well. 

1176
00:49:12,980 --> 00:49:14,620
So what does autonomy look like 
then? 

1177
00:49:14,630 --> 00:49:17,110
Because I suppose what we're 
saying is there'd be some 

1178
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:19,890
baseline rules in charge, like, 
you're going to use this text, 

1179
00:49:19,900 --> 00:49:22,770
OK And we want you to make sure 
you're covering these kind of 

1180
00:49:22,780 --> 00:49:25,280
strands with your questioning. 
We want to make sure that you're

1181
00:49:25,290 --> 00:49:26,890
covering the curriculum and 
you're writing. 

1182
00:49:26,940 --> 00:49:29,970
So what will autonomy look like 
in terms of, let's say, a 

1183
00:49:29,980 --> 00:49:32,940
parallel class? 
Yeah, or even year groups, 

1184
00:49:32,950 --> 00:49:35,030
whatever you want it to be. 
You walk through a school. 

1185
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:38,170
How would it be different then? 
My opinion on how autonomous 

1186
00:49:38,180 --> 00:49:42,690
something is is pretty much 
based on the point in which we 

1187
00:49:42,700 --> 00:49:44,530
stopped getting involved as 
management. 

1188
00:49:44,570 --> 00:49:48,270
So that point for me is you can,
you can be quite prescriptive 

1189
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:50,710
all the way down, I think even 
to the learning objectives. 

1190
00:49:50,950 --> 00:49:53,360
And at that point if you stop, 
it's it's autonomous for me 

1191
00:49:53,370 --> 00:49:56,210
because it's like cool. 
As a teacher, we trust you to 

1192
00:49:56,220 --> 00:49:59,070
deliver this curriculum in a 
really good way. 

1193
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:00,950
Here is the curriculum and you 
have to deliver this. 

1194
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:02,900
Curriculum, you got to deliver 
this curriculum, Here it is. 

1195
00:50:02,910 --> 00:50:06,570
Here are all the objectives. 
I'll even let you decide how 

1196
00:50:06,580 --> 00:50:07,720
long you're gonna spend on the 
objectives. 

1197
00:50:07,730 --> 00:50:10,370
But here they are in order 
across two terms. 

1198
00:50:10,380 --> 00:50:13,790
You've got to teach this and the
autonomy for me is saying to the

1199
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:16,380
teacher, giving them all that 
and saying go on then off you go

1200
00:50:16,390 --> 00:50:18,990
and not getting involved every 
day and micro manage and say, Oh

1201
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:22,620
no, I think you should spend 15 
minutes on that task, 20 minutes

1202
00:50:22,630 --> 00:50:23,640
on this one. 
That's a bad lesson. 

1203
00:50:23,650 --> 00:50:25,500
Because of that Well, I'm 
thinking back to observation 

1204
00:50:25,510 --> 00:50:28,380
feedback I've had before where 
there there there really are two

1205
00:50:28,390 --> 00:50:31,140
types of observation feedback 
ones where it's like, OK, 

1206
00:50:31,190 --> 00:50:32,960
actually, yeah, that's really 
useful. 

1207
00:50:33,030 --> 00:50:35,020
I, you know, I did spend too 
long on that. 

1208
00:50:35,030 --> 00:50:38,150
But because you explained to me 
that that had a detrimental 

1209
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:40,600
effect then on their task, 
detrimental effect on their 

1210
00:50:40,610 --> 00:50:43,550
independence, but that's that's 
really useful good feedback. 

1211
00:50:43,610 --> 00:50:46,360
But when it's not useful is. 
I always remember a lesson you 

1212
00:50:46,370 --> 00:50:50,190
had with metaphors and similes, 
and you simply got the children 

1213
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:52,760
to write down a definition of a 
metaphor and simile in their 

1214
00:50:52,770 --> 00:50:55,270
book so they could refer back to
it and understand because 

1215
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:57,460
they're working with both that 
took a. 

1216
00:50:57,470 --> 00:50:59,480
Minute, a minute. 
And I really wanted them to 

1217
00:50:59,490 --> 00:51:00,830
write it. 
And that's because it was 

1218
00:51:01,060 --> 00:51:04,130
autonomy to say, OK, I'm going 
to use that as a learning tool 

1219
00:51:04,140 --> 00:51:06,650
for them to come back to in my 
lesson that I've planned. 

1220
00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:09,870
And that was a problem. 
Yeah, I got told it was a waste 

1221
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:12,550
of a minute. 
And bear in mind I'd really 

1222
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:13,700
meticulously thought about my 
lesson. 

1223
00:51:13,710 --> 00:51:16,380
It was observation and and I 
specifically, I'd already run 

1224
00:51:16,390 --> 00:51:18,260
through the options of. 
I could just give it to them on 

1225
00:51:18,270 --> 00:51:20,510
a bit of paper and stick it in 
and I was like, no, I want them 

1226
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:22,700
to write it down because it 
literally is going to force them

1227
00:51:22,710 --> 00:51:24,270
for one whole minute to think 
about that. 

1228
00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:26,910
Like the worst case scenario is 
someone manages to write that 

1229
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:29,470
down and not blindly and not 
think about it, but most kids 

1230
00:51:29,820 --> 00:51:31,300
are going to be reading the 
words. 

1231
00:51:31,660 --> 00:51:33,810
And I wanted them to do that. 
Not terrible. 

1232
00:51:33,820 --> 00:51:36,050
I got bad feedback for that 
lesson because that should have 

1233
00:51:36,060 --> 00:51:38,670
been on a sticker or a bit of 
paper and just stuck in their 

1234
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:39,980
book. 
So you could get on and do you 

1235
00:51:39,990 --> 00:51:41,350
want. 
The worst thing is in these kind

1236
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:43,490
of schools where that's a 
problem, depending on who's 

1237
00:51:43,500 --> 00:51:45,550
seeing you, if you've done a 
sticker, someone would have said

1238
00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:46,690
it was a problem. 
Yes, of course. 

1239
00:51:46,700 --> 00:51:48,750
Someone else would have been 
like, why don't you get to write

1240
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:51,150
down it will embed it more. 
It's so objective. 

1241
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:54,010
And I think in a good school you
get rid of the subjective stuff 

1242
00:51:54,020 --> 00:51:55,710
because you just trust your 
professionals. 

1243
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:58,850
You can judge them on, oh gosh, 
you're a year four teacher and 

1244
00:51:58,860 --> 00:52:00,410
you didn't. 
You've not taught this objective

1245
00:52:00,420 --> 00:52:02,500
in addition and subtraction, but
they need to know this. 

1246
00:52:02,510 --> 00:52:05,930
Yeah, that that should never be 
offensive to someone because you

1247
00:52:05,940 --> 00:52:08,470
need to cover the curriculum. 
If you go in and you say, well, 

1248
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:11,280
actually I did think that the 
fact you spoke about your 

1249
00:52:11,290 --> 00:52:13,930
weekend for a couple of minutes 
halfway through the lesson, I 

1250
00:52:13,940 --> 00:52:15,710
don't think that was on. 
I think we could have spent 

1251
00:52:15,720 --> 00:52:17,090
that. 
They weren't learning. 

1252
00:52:17,130 --> 00:52:17,900
Yeah. 
Get over. 

1253
00:52:17,910 --> 00:52:20,300
IT yeah, the teachers 
professional. 

1254
00:52:20,310 --> 00:52:22,000
Yeah, exactly. 
And I think it really nicely to 

1255
00:52:22,010 --> 00:52:25,240
the next point about having 
clear systems in place. 

1256
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:29,400
So I guess for me, autonomy 
stops at the point of AS 

1257
00:52:29,410 --> 00:52:32,170
management, you've got really 
good policies and systems. 

1258
00:52:32,250 --> 00:52:35,530
Place that your staff can follow
easily, so that they can be 

1259
00:52:35,540 --> 00:52:37,090
autonomous with the delivery of 
those lessons. 

1260
00:52:37,100 --> 00:52:40,080
That's such a good point, 
because in itself, having a 

1261
00:52:40,090 --> 00:52:43,780
system that everyone follows 
isn't autonomy, but it allows 

1262
00:52:43,790 --> 00:52:46,310
for good autonomy. 
It's interesting, So how would 

1263
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:48,720
that look in your score? 
So are you talking about a 

1264
00:52:48,730 --> 00:52:50,070
scheme of work? 
Are you talking about a 

1265
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:51,610
behaviour system? 
Like what do? 

1266
00:52:51,620 --> 00:52:54,800
You mean, OK, I'm right? 
Now the example I'm thinking of 

1267
00:52:54,810 --> 00:52:56,140
is something like a scheme of 
work, right? 

1268
00:52:56,150 --> 00:52:59,150
Because we have subject leaders.
Now I'm thinking back to a time 

1269
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:02,380
when I first became maths 
subject leader and I was super 

1270
00:53:02,390 --> 00:53:03,690
super. 
Super passionate about the 

1271
00:53:03,700 --> 00:53:06,150
subject, yeah. 
And I just had this assumption 

1272
00:53:06,190 --> 00:53:09,430
that everyone else was, was 
passionate and I look back at it

1273
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:11,950
and and I learned a lot from 
that time because I think we 

1274
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:14,710
lead maths quite differently now
to how I LED maths way back 

1275
00:53:14,720 --> 00:53:17,080
then. 
Because back then, and I think 

1276
00:53:17,090 --> 00:53:21,590
this was terrible, was I put in 
place loads and loads and loads 

1277
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:23,590
of really intricate things that 
were just amazing. 

1278
00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:26,210
They're very time-consuming but 
really, really good passionate 

1279
00:53:26,220 --> 00:53:27,230
things. 
Because I was so passionate 

1280
00:53:27,240 --> 00:53:29,500
about maths and I was like 
everyone has to do this now I've

1281
00:53:29,510 --> 00:53:31,490
given you this resource, right? 
You've got to before you plan, 

1282
00:53:31,500 --> 00:53:32,970
you gotta check this, this and 
this. 

1283
00:53:33,090 --> 00:53:34,490
And you've got to get one of 
these in. 

1284
00:53:34,580 --> 00:53:36,670
And I was like, this is great, 
like as if because if everyone 

1285
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:39,430
does that, these maths lessons 
will be perfect. 

1286
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:43,390
But really in reality no one was
anywhere near as passionate as I

1287
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:47,070
was at that time about maths. 
And it was just a huge burden 

1288
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:49,970
and it was a really, really 
complex policy that no one could

1289
00:53:49,980 --> 00:53:52,270
actually get their head round 
and follow properly. 

1290
00:53:52,540 --> 00:53:57,950
So I think that coming back full
circle a better system in place 

1291
00:53:57,960 --> 00:53:59,630
would be, would have been much 
more simple. 

1292
00:53:59,960 --> 00:54:02,200
Maybe sacrificed a few of those 
things that I know are really 

1293
00:54:02,210 --> 00:54:03,370
great. 
But you know what? 

1294
00:54:04,180 --> 00:54:06,120
Teachers can be autonomous and 
put those things in if they 

1295
00:54:06,130 --> 00:54:07,340
want. 
Because if your system's really 

1296
00:54:07,350 --> 00:54:09,750
good, there might just be a 
little vocab, a little Bank of 

1297
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:12,800
resources there they can use if 
they want to have that autonomy.

1298
00:54:12,810 --> 00:54:14,370
Yeah. 
But here's the core system in 

1299
00:54:14,380 --> 00:54:15,820
place. 
Yeah. 

1300
00:54:15,860 --> 00:54:17,400
No, I think that's really 
powerful. 

1301
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:20,030
I completely agree with that 
journey. 

1302
00:54:20,140 --> 00:54:22,550
And I think a lot of people 
listening who do work in the 

1303
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:26,200
school or in any kind of job, I 
suppose, is when someone puts 

1304
00:54:26,210 --> 00:54:29,190
their passion or their, you 
know, job description onto other

1305
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:31,690
people. 
And it's like, OK, I understand 

1306
00:54:31,700 --> 00:54:33,690
how much you're passionate and I
actually know that what you're 

1307
00:54:33,700 --> 00:54:36,230
doing is really good. 
But that does not mean that it's

1308
00:54:36,240 --> 00:54:38,800
going to be beneficial if you 
force everyone to do it because 

1309
00:54:38,810 --> 00:54:41,460
what happens to history happens 
to science, happens to English. 

1310
00:54:41,470 --> 00:54:43,950
Yeah, it's just too much. 
And I think you're absolutely 

1311
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:47,380
right about clear systems which 
feel sometimes maybe you're 

1312
00:54:47,390 --> 00:54:49,870
taking autonomy away. 
Good leaders will make it very 

1313
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:52,140
clear that there is autonomy 
built in because you can do X, 

1314
00:54:52,150 --> 00:54:54,710
you can do you can do Z. 
From our case in maths, it's the

1315
00:54:54,720 --> 00:54:57,310
pitch, it's the pace, it's what 
you want to alter. 

1316
00:54:57,440 --> 00:54:58,810
There's a curriculum and 
progression. 

1317
00:54:58,820 --> 00:55:01,460
You've got to use it. 
Yeah, but how will you think you

1318
00:55:01,470 --> 00:55:02,630
need to deliver it for your 
children? 

1319
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:05,350
Even in that lesson, you think, 
OK, we need a practical lesson 

1320
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:06,730
here. 
I'm going to go off script 

1321
00:55:06,740 --> 00:55:09,870
because I know the end goal is 
given to me and I need them to 

1322
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:12,890
get there, but I know that my 
children will get there this 

1323
00:55:12,900 --> 00:55:13,810
way. 
So I'm going to do it If we 

1324
00:55:13,820 --> 00:55:17,330
walked in and we saw someone 
going completely off script, but

1325
00:55:17,340 --> 00:55:19,030
we just watched it and went, oh,
I get that. 

1326
00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:21,840
Yeah. 
Yeah, which is very different to

1327
00:55:21,850 --> 00:55:23,990
Imagine we were in a poor 
school, Imagine we were the bad 

1328
00:55:24,030 --> 00:55:25,480
management. 
We walked in, we saw them going 

1329
00:55:25,490 --> 00:55:26,860
off script and we told them that
was terrible. 

1330
00:55:26,870 --> 00:55:29,000
They didn't stick to the script.
That's awful. 

1331
00:55:29,010 --> 00:55:31,140
You've now made. 
You've started a terrible 

1332
00:55:31,150 --> 00:55:35,680
culture, and good teaching is 
often painted in a bad light. 

1333
00:55:35,810 --> 00:55:37,620
That's objectively good 
teaching. 

1334
00:55:37,750 --> 00:55:41,140
If you make that choice for your
children, you would be making 

1335
00:55:41,150 --> 00:55:43,120
people scared to make good 
choices for their children 

1336
00:55:43,130 --> 00:55:46,140
through being scared of. 
The risk of or it could be a bad

1337
00:55:46,150 --> 00:55:47,490
choice. 
You know what it might not be 

1338
00:55:47,500 --> 00:55:50,570
though. 
How about then when we're 

1339
00:55:50,580 --> 00:55:51,730
thinking about what makes a good
score? 

1340
00:55:51,740 --> 00:55:54,100
And I guess it's the kind of 
antithesis of everything we just

1341
00:55:54,110 --> 00:55:56,850
said about bad score. 
But I think this is so important

1342
00:55:57,120 --> 00:55:59,890
is we talked about positivity 
with the children. 

1343
00:55:59,900 --> 00:56:01,440
Yeah. 
OK Yeah. 

1344
00:56:01,480 --> 00:56:03,280
And I'm really, really 
passionate about this. 

1345
00:56:03,290 --> 00:56:05,910
And I know sometimes it can 
become quite condescending to my

1346
00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:08,770
friends who laugh and joke. 
They they understand why they 

1347
00:56:08,780 --> 00:56:10,450
think it's nice. 
But I always say this when I 

1348
00:56:10,460 --> 00:56:13,430
play golf with my friends, they 
hit a good shot. 

1349
00:56:13,500 --> 00:56:15,250
I kind of feel like going to 
teacher mode. 

1350
00:56:15,450 --> 00:56:17,340
Ohh, what a shot. 
What? 

1351
00:56:17,350 --> 00:56:20,370
Unbelievable. 
That's so good because I just go

1352
00:56:20,380 --> 00:56:22,280
into that. 
I feel like I want to praise 

1353
00:56:22,290 --> 00:56:24,200
everything because I get the 
most out of my kids. 

1354
00:56:25,030 --> 00:56:28,430
With adults it can be seen as 
condescending and we can be seen

1355
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:30,520
as very professional, especially
in these schools were not nice 

1356
00:56:30,530 --> 00:56:34,350
to be in and you know you talked
about the baseline of negative. 

1357
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:37,260
It's something's bad. 
So my job, by definition, is to 

1358
00:56:37,270 --> 00:56:41,430
fix things as SLT in a good 
school. 

1359
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:44,370
What does that relationship look
like between management and? 

1360
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:47,130
Teaching it looks exactly the 
same as the relationship between

1361
00:56:47,140 --> 00:56:48,630
you and your kids in a good 
school. 

1362
00:56:48,720 --> 00:56:50,030
Tell them what to do and they do
it. 

1363
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:51,150
The same year? 
Yeah. 

1364
00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:53,570
Not that it's the same thing, 
because it's just psychology. 

1365
00:56:53,580 --> 00:56:55,590
That point we made at the 
beginning of this episode about 

1366
00:56:55,600 --> 00:56:57,170
building good rapport with your 
kids? 

1367
00:56:57,520 --> 00:56:59,470
Really, It's not really about 
kids at all? 

1368
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:01,970
No you don't. 
You don't want 30 mate to A7. 

1369
00:57:01,980 --> 00:57:03,580
Yeah, exactly. 
That's not really what why are 

1370
00:57:03,590 --> 00:57:04,870
you building? 
It's psychology. 

1371
00:57:04,930 --> 00:57:08,390
It's because people feel good 
when they've been told they're 

1372
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:10,890
doing things well. 
That is really quite simple. 

1373
00:57:10,970 --> 00:57:12,620
And when people feel good, guess
what? 

1374
00:57:12,630 --> 00:57:15,020
They do things well, yeah, yeah,
there's a cycle, right? 

1375
00:57:15,030 --> 00:57:17,260
And when people feel bad about 
stuff, it's the classic thing. 

1376
00:57:17,270 --> 00:57:20,440
You're a teacher, think right 
now how many kids can you list 

1377
00:57:20,450 --> 00:57:24,000
on the back of your hand who are
are not very good at reading 

1378
00:57:24,010 --> 00:57:26,320
than they hate reading. 
It's a cycle. 

1379
00:57:26,390 --> 00:57:29,580
I'm not very good at PE, hate 
PE, not very good at math, hate 

1380
00:57:29,590 --> 00:57:30,800
maths. 
Of course they do. 

1381
00:57:30,850 --> 00:57:32,140
Teachers. 
I'm not very good at teaching 

1382
00:57:32,150 --> 00:57:33,560
now. 
I hate teaching and I've quit. 

1383
00:57:33,830 --> 00:57:35,860
It's the same thing. 
So I've just think. 

1384
00:57:35,870 --> 00:57:37,340
I don't think it's condescending
really. 

1385
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:39,990
I live life like that as well. 
I really, I really try to go out

1386
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:41,780
of my way to look. 
I'm sorry. 

1387
00:57:41,790 --> 00:57:44,980
Yeah, you're you're literally 
the only person who I'm, like, 

1388
00:57:45,060 --> 00:57:47,630
constantly brutal, brutal. 
Because we have a deeper 

1389
00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:49,530
connection, we have a deeper 
connection. 

1390
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:51,460
But it's true. 
When my friends do stuff, I 

1391
00:57:51,470 --> 00:57:53,680
always try to like big them up 
and be nice. 

1392
00:57:53,690 --> 00:57:55,470
But I might have the odd joke, 
but I actually hate it. 

1393
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:58,230
I find it cringe when you have 
those friends or people that 

1394
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:01,720
hey. 
But you know what I mean? 

1395
00:58:01,730 --> 00:58:05,200
There are those people out there
who they only they only ever 

1396
00:58:05,210 --> 00:58:07,800
make things like Take the Take 
the Mick out of good things like

1397
00:58:07,810 --> 00:58:08,920
Ohh. 
Well, we've done that for. 

1398
00:58:08,930 --> 00:58:11,730
It's like. 
That's because it's an affront 

1399
00:58:11,740 --> 00:58:13,690
to them. 
Again, I feel like I did this to

1400
00:58:13,700 --> 00:58:16,010
you, but it's because we're, I 
feel like we've gone past it, 

1401
00:58:16,020 --> 00:58:18,000
but like, it's an affront when 
they've done something. 

1402
00:58:18,010 --> 00:58:21,380
Well, yeah, you ever get that. 
And I know people where if I 

1403
00:58:21,390 --> 00:58:24,330
were to say and I don't even 
like saying, like I've achieved 

1404
00:58:24,340 --> 00:58:26,930
this, I don't really like that. 
But if I were to say that there 

1405
00:58:26,940 --> 00:58:29,860
are some people I know who would
like really picked me up, and 

1406
00:58:29,870 --> 00:58:32,430
there are some people I know who
their first thought would be, 

1407
00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:34,250
what have I done that? 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

1408
00:58:34,260 --> 00:58:39,490
And it's that kind of all right.
I've had a kid constantly. 

1409
00:58:39,500 --> 00:58:44,560
I'm having a kid. 
Yep, that's me, baby. 

1410
00:58:44,610 --> 00:58:46,240
But yeah, no going back to that 
kind of thing. 

1411
00:58:46,250 --> 00:58:49,290
Yeah, it when you got that 
feedback from your English 

1412
00:58:49,300 --> 00:58:50,630
lesson about your metaphors and 
similes. 

1413
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:52,670
Yeah, right. 
Did you After that, I think, Oh 

1414
00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:55,640
my gosh, I'm transformed now I'm
going to teach English so much 

1415
00:58:55,650 --> 00:58:57,500
better because you've told me I 
can't write it down. 

1416
00:58:57,690 --> 00:59:00,990
Or did you think, OK, screw it, 
boring lessons from now then I'm

1417
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:03,430
not gonna. 
Bother I actually thought I lost

1418
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:05,980
complete faith in this city 
because they didn't, because I 

1419
00:59:05,990 --> 00:59:07,380
thought I did plenty of good 
stuff. 

1420
00:59:07,390 --> 00:59:08,940
I don't think I'm perfect where 
we're. 

1421
00:59:08,950 --> 00:59:10,820
Lesson was perfect. 
I reckon they're always. 

1422
00:59:11,050 --> 00:59:12,730
I can look back now and reflect 
on that lesson. 

1423
00:59:12,740 --> 00:59:13,870
Yes. 
And teach it way better. 

1424
00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:15,070
Yeah. 
But they didn't give me that 

1425
00:59:15,080 --> 00:59:16,630
feedback. 
Yeah, they didn't give me those 

1426
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:18,230
constructive things. 
They just picked on something 

1427
00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:20,370
really arbitrary that I thought 
was just pointless point to 

1428
00:59:20,380 --> 00:59:21,910
make. 
And they didn't mention anything

1429
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:23,010
good. 
So I was like, cool. 

1430
00:59:23,020 --> 00:59:27,450
I don't like being bolshier, I 
guess, and quite stubborn and 

1431
00:59:27,460 --> 00:59:29,550
arrogant. 
I just took that as cool. 

1432
00:59:29,560 --> 00:59:31,450
You have no idea to talk about. 
I literally don't respect 

1433
00:59:31,460 --> 00:59:33,580
anymore. 
I have no, I do not care what 

1434
00:59:33,590 --> 00:59:35,310
you say to me, right or wrong, 
OK? 

1435
00:59:35,370 --> 00:59:38,510
That's clearly a bad environment
to work in. 

1436
00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:40,570
So no matter. 
Doesn't matter if you're right 

1437
00:59:40,580 --> 00:59:43,650
or wrong in that situation. 
If SLT are giving that kind of 

1438
00:59:43,660 --> 00:59:45,990
feedback, you're going to get 
that kind of response. 

1439
00:59:46,060 --> 00:59:47,850
That's not a nice situation. 
No. 

1440
00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:51,450
And if I was less arrogant and 
stubborn, big if, yeah. 

1441
00:59:51,520 --> 00:59:54,980
If I were less arrogant and just
basically a normal human being, 

1442
00:59:54,990 --> 00:59:56,950
normal teachers, I probably 
would have taken that feedback 

1443
00:59:56,960 --> 00:59:59,900
really badly and then made sure 
to never do that thing again. 

1444
00:59:59,910 --> 01:00:02,380
Which I thought was good about 
getting children to write things

1445
01:00:02,390 --> 01:00:04,560
down because I think there's 
value in them writing it. 

1446
01:00:04,970 --> 01:00:06,730
Always put on stickers and then 
my teachings. 

1447
01:00:06,740 --> 01:00:07,490
Worse. 
Yeah. 

1448
01:00:07,500 --> 01:00:09,450
That's such a good point. 
There's too much autonomy, 

1449
01:00:09,460 --> 01:00:12,600
actually squashes teachers. 
So I guess OK And me kind of 

1450
01:00:12,610 --> 01:00:15,940
playing this role of well, OK. 
But you know it's all well and 

1451
01:00:15,950 --> 01:00:19,720
good saying to someone. 
Well done, well done you. 

1452
01:00:19,870 --> 01:00:21,380
Thank you. 
Did you do all that planning? 

1453
01:00:22,010 --> 01:00:23,110
Well done. 
Well done, though. 

1454
01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:24,730
What did you do that planning at
weekends. 

1455
01:00:24,740 --> 01:00:25,780
Did you know that planning 
though. 

1456
01:00:25,790 --> 01:00:26,780
Yeah. 
Well done though. 

1457
01:00:26,850 --> 01:00:29,420
Yeah. 
What about, you know, I, I know 

1458
01:00:29,430 --> 01:00:33,280
a lot of you know people in 
those kind of positions from 

1459
01:00:33,290 --> 01:00:37,420
previous life, let's say, where 
I'm like, OK, you present very 

1460
01:00:37,430 --> 01:00:38,160
nice. 
Yeah. 

1461
01:00:38,170 --> 01:00:41,640
But you perpetuate this toxic 
environment, so it'll be real. 

1462
01:00:41,650 --> 01:00:42,990
So what? 
What? 

1463
01:00:43,080 --> 01:00:45,190
OK, what can we actually do? 
Yes, we're gonna be positive to 

1464
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:47,810
our staff, but it's that W word.
Hmm. 

1465
01:00:48,040 --> 01:00:49,550
You know what word I'm talking 
about? 

1466
01:00:49,640 --> 01:00:50,510
What? 
What can? 

1467
01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:51,850
What does that look like in a 
good? 

1468
01:00:51,860 --> 01:00:53,150
Score. 
Well, yeah. 

1469
01:00:53,160 --> 01:00:55,150
OK. 
So just gonna go back a step 

1470
01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:57,800
because that's awkward because. 
I don't know. 

1471
01:00:58,160 --> 01:00:59,610
Workload. 
OK. 

1472
01:00:59,620 --> 01:01:00,950
I was thinking what you talking 
about? 

1473
01:01:01,300 --> 01:01:04,060
I was thinking, hopefully you'll
think about my point as well. 

1474
01:01:04,070 --> 01:01:06,890
So. 
The fakeness. 

1475
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:09,500
It's so easy to spot, isn't it? 
Insidious. 

1476
01:01:09,510 --> 01:01:11,350
Yeah. 
Ohh God, it's like I I genuinely

1477
01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:13,270
think if like if our head 
teacher right now said something

1478
01:01:13,280 --> 01:01:16,060
nice to me, I would take that, 
I'd believe it 1% because I 

1479
01:01:16,070 --> 01:01:17,920
think it's genuine. 
But I have definitely been in 

1480
01:01:17,930 --> 01:01:19,790
situations before where someone 
could say something. 

1481
01:01:19,800 --> 01:01:22,360
I'm like cool, this is a mask. 
Get to the point then what's 

1482
01:01:22,370 --> 01:01:24,330
what's the negative thing you 
want to save underneath. 

1483
01:01:24,340 --> 01:01:26,060
So true all I think it's not 
real. 

1484
01:01:26,070 --> 01:01:27,180
You don't really think this 
about me. 

1485
01:01:27,190 --> 01:01:30,390
You know that classic like, 
sandwich of of feedback? 

1486
01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:32,410
Relative sandwich, Negative 
sandwich. 

1487
01:01:32,420 --> 01:01:34,570
Yeah, because I like that it's 
from my uncle. 

1488
01:01:34,660 --> 01:01:36,820
Because he was like, he's right,
you don't All the sandwich, 

1489
01:01:36,830 --> 01:01:38,300
what's on the outside, it's not 
bread sandwich. 

1490
01:01:38,350 --> 01:01:40,220
So yeah, the whole positive 
thing. 

1491
01:01:40,290 --> 01:01:42,260
How many times do you see this? 
You'll get an e-mail, right? 

1492
01:01:42,770 --> 01:01:46,260
I have seen such fantastic 
things from you. 

1493
01:01:46,330 --> 01:01:50,550
But one one amazing week. 
We've had amazing teaching from 

1494
01:01:50,560 --> 01:01:53,230
the top down. 
However, here's 17 things you've

1495
01:01:53,240 --> 01:01:53,800
done. 
Wrong. 

1496
01:01:54,090 --> 01:01:56,820
And it's like, OK, completely 
contradicts what I've just said.

1497
01:01:56,910 --> 01:01:59,740
And at that point, the whole 
sandwich doesn't work anymore 

1498
01:01:59,750 --> 01:02:01,580
because it's got to be genuine. 
When you do that, yeah. 

1499
01:02:01,590 --> 01:02:04,320
And I think the sandwich, the 
positive bit on the outside 

1500
01:02:04,330 --> 01:02:05,920
can't be contradicted by the 
little bit. 

1501
01:02:05,930 --> 01:02:08,250
Yeah, if I was giving. 
Feedback about maths, right? 

1502
01:02:08,310 --> 01:02:10,500
I said wow, your maths teaching 
was fantastic, And then I 

1503
01:02:10,510 --> 01:02:13,000
immediately told them something 
was terrible about that matches.

1504
01:02:13,010 --> 01:02:14,720
It's like the first bits now, a 
lie. 

1505
01:02:14,870 --> 01:02:17,010
What you should do is pick out 
something that was genuinely 

1506
01:02:17,020 --> 01:02:18,640
good and unaffected by the 
negative thing. 

1507
01:02:18,750 --> 01:02:24,030
I thought you had lovely hair. 
Those heels and that skirt look,

1508
01:02:24,590 --> 01:02:25,560
that's. 
Fantastic. 

1509
01:02:25,570 --> 01:02:28,180
I'll tell you what so good that 
the the policy now in school was

1510
01:02:28,190 --> 01:02:30,120
going to be that everyone has to
wear these heels and these 

1511
01:02:30,130 --> 01:02:31,180
skirts. 
God, you know what? 

1512
01:02:31,190 --> 01:02:33,330
The makes me cringe even you 
saying that. 

1513
01:02:33,340 --> 01:02:35,010
But that's that's. 
What happened at this school, we

1514
01:02:35,020 --> 01:02:36,530
don't know. 
We're assuming that was a Hills.

1515
01:02:36,540 --> 01:02:39,670
Yeah, but something like that 
with the with the uniform. 

1516
01:02:39,740 --> 01:02:42,090
But what it has to be if you're 
doing the negative sandwich. 

1517
01:02:42,100 --> 01:02:43,450
I like it. 
Sounds nice. 

1518
01:02:45,260 --> 01:02:48,610
Is if you you know. 
It's wrong, Dylan said. 

1519
01:02:48,620 --> 01:02:50,030
It it's wrong, he agrees. 
It's wrong. 

1520
01:02:50,040 --> 01:02:51,260
I've said it. 
What's a ham sandwich? 

1521
01:02:51,270 --> 01:02:52,440
Is it ham, Bread. 
Ham. 

1522
01:02:53,370 --> 01:02:55,060
Don't think so. 
Blooming should be. 

1523
01:02:56,840 --> 01:03:00,680
Yeah, more how this is great. 
Anyway, just to summarise, it 

1524
01:03:00,690 --> 01:03:03,060
should be that you pick 
something out that's genuinely 

1525
01:03:03,070 --> 01:03:04,730
positive that you actually think
you're not. 

1526
01:03:04,740 --> 01:03:07,770
Just it's not just a game. 
I really like the way you book, 

1527
01:03:07,780 --> 01:03:10,610
report and you're startups were 
fantastic in the main lesson. 

1528
01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:12,700
I just wonder what happened here
this bit and you have a 

1529
01:03:12,710 --> 01:03:14,790
negative, but at the end of the 
lesson you really pulled them 

1530
01:03:14,800 --> 01:03:18,810
back and this was crap. 
This bit in the middle. 

1531
01:03:18,880 --> 01:03:21,510
Shocking. 
Shocking if you ask me, but I've

1532
01:03:21,520 --> 01:03:23,510
not finished my sandwich, so 
here's something nice. 

1533
01:03:23,770 --> 01:03:25,840
Some more families, Yeah. 
But yeah, no. 

1534
01:03:25,850 --> 01:03:27,390
OK, so. 
Absolutely right. 

1535
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:29,190
But the workload very quickly. 
Last two things. 

1536
01:03:29,200 --> 01:03:31,320
Yeah. 
Second to last workload. 

1537
01:03:31,410 --> 01:03:33,060
How is that managed in a good 
school? 

1538
01:03:33,130 --> 01:03:33,660
What? 
What? 

1539
01:03:33,670 --> 01:03:35,940
What can we do? 
Because the job is hard, 

1540
01:03:35,950 --> 01:03:38,040
actively. 
We've got lots to do, right? 

1541
01:03:38,050 --> 01:03:39,680
We've got lots to do in our 
role. 

1542
01:03:39,750 --> 01:03:44,340
We can't suddenly just say, OK, 
just don't plan English. 

1543
01:03:44,350 --> 01:03:45,520
Well, no, I need some English 
lessons. 

1544
01:03:45,530 --> 01:03:47,060
So what? 
So what does it look like 

1545
01:03:47,070 --> 01:03:48,920
effectively in a school? 
Knowing that we have a high 

1546
01:03:48,930 --> 01:03:51,030
workload, how can it be managed?
Effectively, first of all, it's 

1547
01:03:51,040 --> 01:03:52,280
acknowledged. 
Hmm. 

1548
01:03:52,320 --> 01:03:54,630
And I don't mean the classic and
well done. 

1549
01:03:54,810 --> 01:03:57,210
No, not even that. 
God, I hate this one. 

1550
01:03:57,220 --> 01:03:58,800
Bringing me out. 
And people, nice people do it. 

1551
01:03:58,810 --> 01:03:59,940
And I know they don't mean 
anything by it. 

1552
01:03:59,950 --> 01:04:02,750
We've said it before, which is 
go on, It's 5:00. 

1553
01:04:02,760 --> 01:04:05,320
Go home. 
Go home, your Rascal. 

1554
01:04:05,330 --> 01:04:07,800
Go on, go on. 
Ohh, you are the person in 

1555
01:04:07,810 --> 01:04:08,810
charge of why I'm. 
Here. 

1556
01:04:08,820 --> 01:04:09,960
Yeah. 
Can I not mark it? 

1557
01:04:09,970 --> 01:04:12,000
No. 
Go home now. 

1558
01:04:12,010 --> 01:04:14,070
Go on, When can I mark? 
It does. 

1559
01:04:14,080 --> 01:04:15,350
Stop it. 
You get it done. 

1560
01:04:15,360 --> 01:04:17,600
Get it, don't get, don't get. 
Well, you're still here. 

1561
01:04:17,610 --> 01:04:20,090
We've got marked by tomorrow. 
Yeah, yeah, that's the fake. 

1562
01:04:20,100 --> 01:04:21,200
That's the fakeness again, isn't
it? 

1563
01:04:21,210 --> 01:04:23,250
It's that it's that playing the 
game of positive sandwich, 

1564
01:04:23,260 --> 01:04:26,480
playing the game of. 
I'm supposed to tell them to not

1565
01:04:26,490 --> 01:04:28,330
work too much, but I'm not going
to reduce it so good. 

1566
01:04:28,340 --> 01:04:32,450
Schools are active in the 
reduction of workload, so they 

1567
01:04:32,460 --> 01:04:34,610
will monitor it. 
There has to be something in 

1568
01:04:34,620 --> 01:04:37,760
place. 
Yeah, OK, employ someone to do 

1569
01:04:37,770 --> 01:04:39,270
it. 
Or as the head teacher, that's 

1570
01:04:39,280 --> 01:04:41,940
that's part of your workload. 
Now monitor it. 

1571
01:04:42,030 --> 01:04:43,880
Do something about it. 
When it gets too much. 

1572
01:04:43,890 --> 01:04:46,340
Don't just do the thing that a 
lot of schools do is they go, Oh

1573
01:04:46,350 --> 01:04:49,890
yeah, it's bad isn't it? 
Yeah, Ohh, it's bad. 

1574
01:04:49,900 --> 01:04:51,580
Let's have a meeting about it 
next time. 

1575
01:04:52,150 --> 01:04:54,840
And then the term after we'll 
think about implementing it and 

1576
01:04:54,850 --> 01:04:56,550
hopefully by the time after that
you forgotten about it. 

1577
01:04:56,560 --> 01:04:58,180
We've implemented 7 other things
since then. 

1578
01:04:58,720 --> 01:05:01,030
You know what we'll do is we'll 
implement 7 other things, then 

1579
01:05:01,040 --> 01:05:02,220
we'll get rid of one of those 
things. 

1580
01:05:02,230 --> 01:05:03,810
A good thing is time costing, 
isn't it? 

1581
01:05:03,820 --> 01:05:05,080
Yeah, that's a good way to do 
it. 

1582
01:05:05,090 --> 01:05:07,630
It's like OK, if you're going 
to, you have to have a baseline 

1583
01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:09,680
of it takes you X amount of time
to plan lessons, right. 

1584
01:05:09,720 --> 01:05:11,940
If you're going to introduce 
something that literally adds an

1585
01:05:11,950 --> 01:05:14,950
hour a week, yeah, time costing 
would be you'd have someone look

1586
01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:17,450
at it and say OK, we need to 
save an hour somewhere else. 

1587
01:05:17,500 --> 01:05:19,310
If we can't save an hour 
somewhere else, we're not 

1588
01:05:19,320 --> 01:05:22,530
introducing and you have to be 
bullshit to do that because 

1589
01:05:22,600 --> 01:05:25,190
quite often things are 
introduced with the creeping 

1590
01:05:25,200 --> 01:05:28,270
shadow of Ofsted. 
So you saying OK, no we're not 

1591
01:05:28,280 --> 01:05:30,970
going to do it because of 
workload is you essentially as 

1592
01:05:30,980 --> 01:05:34,110
an SLT saying no we're not going
to make our curriculum better. 

1593
01:05:34,340 --> 01:05:37,270
So where's the line for you? 
Because you have to say, no, 

1594
01:05:37,280 --> 01:05:39,300
we're not going to make things 
better because of workload. 

1595
01:05:39,310 --> 01:05:41,080
Yeah, where's the line? 
I don't know. 

1596
01:05:41,090 --> 01:05:42,480
You gotta be smart with it I 
guess, haven't you? 

1597
01:05:42,490 --> 01:05:44,850
This is where it just takes 
really good managers to be able 

1598
01:05:44,860 --> 01:05:48,520
to time cost and also cost it 
based on how much impact it will

1599
01:05:48,530 --> 01:05:50,670
have. 
And also just everything else 

1600
01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:51,860
that already exists in your 
school. 

1601
01:05:51,870 --> 01:05:53,770
Just every now and then 
reevaluate them maybe and be 

1602
01:05:53,780 --> 01:05:56,320
like how much impact, how much 
this is costing us like 2 hours 

1603
01:05:56,330 --> 01:05:58,660
a week on average for staff. 
How much impact does this really

1604
01:05:58,670 --> 01:06:00,410
having? 
Because this other thing I want 

1605
01:06:00,420 --> 01:06:02,580
to bring in is going to have way
more impact. 

1606
01:06:02,810 --> 01:06:05,550
OK, let's swap them. 
I think it just is just down to 

1607
01:06:05,560 --> 01:06:07,200
good management. 
There's no there's no easy 

1608
01:06:07,210 --> 01:06:08,520
answer. 
I don't think it's easy 

1609
01:06:08,530 --> 01:06:11,500
sometimes with our podcast when 
we sit chatting to be like 

1610
01:06:11,560 --> 01:06:13,560
aren't we putting the world to 
rights really easily. 

1611
01:06:13,650 --> 01:06:16,760
But I I think this is a really 
big problem that a lot of really

1612
01:06:16,770 --> 01:06:19,740
good leaders are really good 
heads have where they actively 

1613
01:06:19,750 --> 01:06:21,640
know because you're saying don't
just know it. 

1614
01:06:21,650 --> 01:06:24,760
Well, there is a problem where 
heads know there's a problem but

1615
01:06:24,770 --> 01:06:27,230
there is not an easy solution 
because the easy solution and I 

1616
01:06:27,240 --> 01:06:29,480
said is the only solution is to 
do less. 

1617
01:06:29,520 --> 01:06:32,060
That's what I always say and 
it's easy for me to say that 

1618
01:06:32,070 --> 01:06:34,860
because me doing this means what
there's less planning. 

1619
01:06:34,910 --> 01:06:36,880
We don't have an English lesson 
on Friday. 

1620
01:06:37,090 --> 01:06:39,360
We don't have a maths. 
Everything we're doing already 

1621
01:06:39,370 --> 01:06:41,450
feels exactly. 
I'm already doing what I need to

1622
01:06:41,460 --> 01:06:42,780
do. 
That's why I'm doing it, Yeah. 

1623
01:06:42,830 --> 01:06:45,160
So I suppose, yeah, I don't. 
Know someone online? 

1624
01:06:45,170 --> 01:06:48,700
I'll just finish with this. 
Again, talking about the whole 

1625
01:06:48,710 --> 01:06:51,670
question about all this stuff, 
talking about workload. 

1626
01:06:51,680 --> 01:06:54,110
And he was saying that he worked
in a really bad school in the 

1627
01:06:54,120 --> 01:06:56,600
past, really, really bad. 
And he's like, you know, mental 

1628
01:06:56,610 --> 01:06:59,890
health was terrible. 
And then he restarted, refusing 

1629
01:06:59,900 --> 01:07:01,770
to do all these extra things. 
And I'm not doing it anymore. 

1630
01:07:01,780 --> 01:07:03,370
He's fed up with it. 
I'm not, I'm not doing a club 

1631
01:07:03,380 --> 01:07:04,760
anymore. 
No stuff your club. 

1632
01:07:04,770 --> 01:07:06,690
You know, it's one of those 
schools where it is voluntary 

1633
01:07:07,160 --> 01:07:11,610
and a great side effect, a win, 
win situation really for good 

1634
01:07:11,620 --> 01:07:13,960
schools is that he was saying 
that when he worked in a 

1635
01:07:13,970 --> 01:07:17,690
positive school, he was actually
really happy to give up his 

1636
01:07:17,700 --> 01:07:19,820
time. 
Into a club because he felt 

1637
01:07:19,830 --> 01:07:23,120
trusted and respected and he 
wanted to give something back to

1638
01:07:23,130 --> 01:07:25,220
the school because he really 
felt valued there. 

1639
01:07:25,270 --> 01:07:27,340
And isn't that funny? 
Like how much of emotional 

1640
01:07:27,350 --> 01:07:29,180
reactions we have to stuff. 
It's like in the other school, 

1641
01:07:29,190 --> 01:07:31,240
ironically they got less out of 
him, even though they were 

1642
01:07:31,250 --> 01:07:34,300
trying to work him harder. 
He didn't do the club and now 

1643
01:07:34,310 --> 01:07:36,740
he's doing the club. 
Why are you a teacher? 

1644
01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:41,590
The money. 
I'm joking should be the worst 

1645
01:07:41,600 --> 01:07:44,920
answer possible. 
I'm a teacher, but two reasons. 

1646
01:07:45,100 --> 01:07:49,380
I absolutely love teaching. 
As in I love seeing people learn

1647
01:07:49,390 --> 01:07:51,960
things. 
I just like helping people, so 

1648
01:07:51,970 --> 01:07:53,530
do the podcast. 
You learn so much. 

1649
01:07:53,540 --> 01:07:54,610
Yeah, absolutely. 
Yeah. 

1650
01:07:54,620 --> 01:07:57,450
And the second thing is, I 
really like the autonomy. 

1651
01:07:57,700 --> 01:08:00,550
I like having a day where every 
day is a bit different. 

1652
01:08:00,620 --> 01:08:03,760
I don't really know what's gonna
happen other than the lesson 

1653
01:08:03,770 --> 01:08:04,530
deliver stuff. 
But the. 

1654
01:08:04,540 --> 01:08:07,570
Children's very different 
because I hated. 

1655
01:08:07,850 --> 01:08:10,760
A job that I had before where I 
was just I I knew my whole week 

1656
01:08:10,770 --> 01:08:12,120
already. 
I haven't been doing this, but 

1657
01:08:12,130 --> 01:08:13,650
beans on the. 
Showing put beans on shelf, I'm 

1658
01:08:13,660 --> 01:08:15,510
gonna, you know, scan customs 
things. 

1659
01:08:15,520 --> 01:08:17,760
I just didn't like that. 
And other people loved it, but 

1660
01:08:17,770 --> 01:08:19,410
it wasn't for me. 
So they're the two things. 

1661
01:08:19,420 --> 01:08:24,680
And I'm a teacher because I did 
a week when I graduated. 

1662
01:08:24,689 --> 01:08:27,560
When I didn't know what I wanted
to do, I did a week in London, 

1663
01:08:27,670 --> 01:08:29,740
in a recruitment firm, in an 
office. 

1664
01:08:31,270 --> 01:08:32,640
I did a week. 
I probably told you, probably 

1665
01:08:32,649 --> 01:08:35,140
forgot I did a week. 
Well, I said I did a week. 

1666
01:08:35,149 --> 01:08:37,359
I was lined up to do a week. 
Did a week, four times, mate. 

1667
01:08:37,430 --> 01:08:39,939
I've got a week. 
I've had a baby, right. 

1668
01:08:41,010 --> 01:08:43,460
I got to Tuesday lunchtime. 
Yeah. 

1669
01:08:43,470 --> 01:08:45,399
And I walked into the guy who 
owned it, nice guy. 

1670
01:08:45,470 --> 01:08:47,370
And I was just like, Nah, it's 
not for me. 

1671
01:08:47,510 --> 01:08:50,740
Because all we had to do all day
was pick up the phone, cold call

1672
01:08:50,750 --> 01:08:53,569
people with jobs, right. 
You were trying to sell jobs. 

1673
01:08:53,580 --> 01:08:55,340
You were head hunter. 
You're trying to sell jobs in 

1674
01:08:55,350 --> 01:08:56,950
it. 
I knew nothing about it. 

1675
01:08:56,960 --> 01:09:01,060
So I'm trying to go, yeah, it's 
a it's a C job, Yeah. 

1676
01:09:01,069 --> 01:09:03,279
Just rest of the day, OK? 
I don't know what I'm talking 

1677
01:09:03,290 --> 01:09:03,950
about. 
Yeah, that's. 

1678
01:09:03,960 --> 01:09:07,130
No, that's a coding language. 
JavaScript and Orange Peel, 

1679
01:09:07,540 --> 01:09:09,689
whatever. 
So I'm trying to sell it jobs, 

1680
01:09:09,700 --> 01:09:11,810
cold calling people. 
Yeah, because I get a Commission

1681
01:09:11,819 --> 01:09:13,450
every time we play someone a 
job. 

1682
01:09:13,490 --> 01:09:15,810
And the base Saturday was 
rubbish and you just basically 

1683
01:09:15,819 --> 01:09:18,130
all day. 
Phone, phone, phone, proper, 

1684
01:09:18,140 --> 01:09:20,390
like city, like job with eight 
other people around you on the 

1685
01:09:20,399 --> 01:09:24,580
phone I said not conduit. 
And teaching was always this job

1686
01:09:24,590 --> 01:09:27,660
where I thought, OK, not only 
can I have an impact, I feel 

1687
01:09:27,670 --> 01:09:31,170
like I have an impact because 
it's in my control to make, you 

1688
01:09:31,180 --> 01:09:32,899
know, I can teach children to 
read. 

1689
01:09:33,390 --> 01:09:36,680
How good is that? 
You can help someone learn to 

1690
01:09:36,689 --> 01:09:38,979
read, but that's unreal when you
think about it. 

1691
01:09:38,990 --> 01:09:43,609
I can help someone to enjoy 
maths but that's so powerful to 

1692
01:09:43,620 --> 01:09:45,870
me to be able to be in a 
position where I'm like, OK, 

1693
01:09:45,880 --> 01:09:49,010
you're gonna start with me and 
you don't like maths and after a

1694
01:09:49,020 --> 01:09:51,880
year you're going to love doing 
maths and you are going to be 

1695
01:09:51,890 --> 01:09:54,170
better doing maths and you're 
gonna have an outlook in the 

1696
01:09:54,180 --> 01:09:55,840
future where you think you can 
do maths. 

1697
01:09:56,750 --> 01:09:58,760
Friend again? 
Friends back, maybe. 

1698
01:09:58,950 --> 01:10:03,660
Friends back, but that. 
But that is why, and I fear, and

1699
01:10:03,670 --> 01:10:06,060
I've said this before when we 
talked about why we're striking,

1700
01:10:06,110 --> 01:10:08,200
you're absolutely right. 
Because everything that's being 

1701
01:10:08,210 --> 01:10:10,860
eroded in a profession is 
everything that makes it good. 

1702
01:10:11,110 --> 01:10:13,030
It's the autonomy, it's the 
trust. 

1703
01:10:13,040 --> 01:10:14,710
You're professional. 
You're going to get on with your

1704
01:10:14,720 --> 01:10:16,500
job and do the things that are 
important to you. 

1705
01:10:16,600 --> 01:10:18,580
You're being ground down. 
You're not going to go the extra

1706
01:10:18,590 --> 01:10:21,080
mile. 
I will be really honest right 

1707
01:10:21,090 --> 01:10:24,160
now. 
I don't go anywhere near as far 

1708
01:10:24,170 --> 01:10:28,470
in this job as I did when I was 
123 years experience, nowhere 

1709
01:10:28,480 --> 01:10:30,460
near as far. 
And I put that down to two 

1710
01:10:30,470 --> 01:10:32,580
things. 
One was the environment that I 

1711
01:10:32,590 --> 01:10:37,020
worked in for a few years. 
And two is that it's the chronic

1712
01:10:37,030 --> 01:10:38,640
underfunding from the 
government. 

1713
01:10:38,870 --> 01:10:41,960
And I don't just mean my pay, I 
mean the underfunding of the 

1714
01:10:42,030 --> 01:10:44,180
entire thing. 
I mean if you worked in a 

1715
01:10:44,190 --> 01:10:46,770
private company and they 
squeezed funding as much as it's

1716
01:10:46,780 --> 01:10:49,360
been squeezed in education, you 
would feel it around. 

1717
01:10:49,370 --> 01:10:51,820
You want to get that across to 
people As to why we're striking.

1718
01:10:51,890 --> 01:10:54,620
If you're if you are suddenly 
squeezed so much where there 

1719
01:10:54,630 --> 01:10:57,310
were layoffs and you didn't have
the right thing to do and now 

1720
01:10:57,320 --> 01:10:59,640
you're doing 3 jobs instead of 1
because they got rid of some 

1721
01:10:59,650 --> 01:11:02,260
people and actually the roofs 
leaking but they can't fix it 

1722
01:11:02,270 --> 01:11:04,740
cause they've got you would 
notice that it would affect your

1723
01:11:04,750 --> 01:11:06,320
life and that's what's happening
in teaching. 

1724
01:11:06,390 --> 01:11:09,970
And not only is it then just I'm
not being horrible to people who

1725
01:11:09,980 --> 01:11:12,820
work in office jobs but that's 
affecting your office job where 

1726
01:11:12,830 --> 01:11:15,920
the world will go on Virgin 
Media can't ring someone in a 

1727
01:11:15,930 --> 01:11:17,510
day. 
This is affecting, like the 

1728
01:11:17,520 --> 01:11:19,740
livelihoods of children, the 
next generation, the next 

1729
01:11:19,750 --> 01:11:21,610
generation leaders. 
Point. 

1730
01:11:21,670 --> 01:11:26,000
So it's really it's heartening 
and I'm, I'm just worried that 

1731
01:11:26,060 --> 01:11:29,390
all of this mixed in with the, I
think the control we have from 

1732
01:11:29,450 --> 01:11:31,550
what we've talked about 
management and external factors 

1733
01:11:31,560 --> 01:11:33,940
in the school with what's 
happened with the government 

1734
01:11:33,950 --> 01:11:37,270
over the last 13 years, I just, 
I'm really worried. 

1735
01:11:37,600 --> 01:11:39,610
Yeah, I agree. 
Bye. 

1736
01:11:39,620 --> 01:11:42,550
That's my contribution. 
No, no, no, I do. 

1737
01:11:42,560 --> 01:11:44,290
I I was, yeah, very interested 
in what you saying. 

1738
01:11:44,300 --> 01:11:45,410
But I do. 
I fully agree. 

1739
01:11:45,500 --> 01:11:47,650
And I think it would be really 
nice to hear from you guys 

1740
01:11:47,820 --> 01:11:50,130
because almost definitely. 
Like, we finished our last 

1741
01:11:50,140 --> 01:11:51,990
episode and we thought we didn't
mention this one thing. 

1742
01:11:52,000 --> 01:11:54,240
That's probably a few things 
we've not really mentioned that 

1743
01:11:54,250 --> 01:11:56,530
you might have been thinking and
screaming at the screen or 

1744
01:11:56,540 --> 01:11:59,230
whatever through this episode. 
Please write to us. 

1745
01:11:59,240 --> 01:12:02,070
We'd love to hear what What is 
it that's made your experiences 

1746
01:12:02,080 --> 01:12:04,850
good or bad, in schools? 
And if you don't work in a 

1747
01:12:04,860 --> 01:12:06,600
school, are we being a bit 
dramatic? 

1748
01:12:06,610 --> 01:12:07,820
Is this just the same 
everywhere? 

1749
01:12:07,830 --> 01:12:08,480
Yeah. 
We see. 

1750
01:12:08,550 --> 01:12:09,990
I've been listening to Adam 
Kay's book. 

1751
01:12:10,000 --> 01:12:12,660
This is going to hurt an ex 
Doctor Who's like a TV comedian 

1752
01:12:12,670 --> 01:12:14,420
writer. 
Sorry, I can't meditate and hate

1753
01:12:14,430 --> 01:12:16,860
it when I met with the 
microphone who's been who wrote 

1754
01:12:16,870 --> 01:12:21,080
a memoir a few years ago. 
And it is horrendous being a 

1755
01:12:21,090 --> 01:12:23,460
doctor. 
Like the workload and say is, is

1756
01:12:23,470 --> 01:12:25,050
it's five times worse than being
a teacher. 

1757
01:12:25,230 --> 01:12:28,360
So all this, you know, these 37 
episodes we've had times that by

1758
01:12:28,370 --> 01:12:29,480
five. 
And the doctor. 

1759
01:12:29,530 --> 01:12:30,890
Oh, no, sorry, the Doctor can't 
do a podcast. 

1760
01:12:30,900 --> 01:12:32,400
He's working 24 hour shifts. 
Yeah, yeah, Yeah. 

1761
01:12:32,410 --> 01:12:34,420
So like, you know. 
Something into perspective 

1762
01:12:34,430 --> 01:12:35,130
sometimes. 
Good. 

1763
01:12:35,170 --> 01:12:36,690
Yeah, for sure, but. 
How can I get to us? 

1764
01:12:36,700 --> 01:12:37,830
How can they write to us? 
Dylan? 

1765
01:12:37,900 --> 01:12:39,830
Find us on Instagram. 
Always the best place. 

1766
01:12:39,880 --> 01:12:41,690
Teach. 
Seek repeat podcast, guys. 

1767
01:12:41,700 --> 01:12:46,920
I asked for guys, I asked for 
some Q&A's recently and we've 

1768
01:12:46,930 --> 01:12:48,860
got them all. 
We didn't have time today, but 

1769
01:12:48,870 --> 01:12:50,480
I'm banking them and we'll be 
using them. 

1770
01:12:50,490 --> 01:12:53,730
So every time I ask for a Q&A 
and I don't ask it, don't think 

1771
01:12:53,740 --> 01:12:55,260
there's no point. 
There is because they're going 

1772
01:12:55,270 --> 01:12:57,920
in a bank. 
OK, so keep asking us questions 

1773
01:12:57,930 --> 01:13:00,500
and send us some lovely stories.
When we eventually get time to 

1774
01:13:00,510 --> 01:13:02,140
stop moaning, we will go through
them. 

1775
01:13:02,150 --> 01:13:04,830
And also enjoy the memes. 
Dylan's being creative, making 

1776
01:13:04,840 --> 01:13:05,960
me talk about them. 
Next week. 

1777
01:13:05,970 --> 01:13:08,600
Go on, go to our Instagram and 
like my memes, please. 

1778
01:13:08,650 --> 01:13:09,640
I enjoy them. 
Good. 

1779
01:13:09,650 --> 01:13:10,680
Well, I hope you enjoy the 
episode. 

1780
01:13:10,750 --> 01:13:12,080
Thanks for joining us. 
See you next time.