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Hello everyone, and welcome back
to another episode of Teach 

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Sleep. 
Repeat. 

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My name is. 
Dylan, and my name is Hayden. 

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Why, Hayden, have you spent all 
morning hating the Black Eyed 

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Peas? 
I haven't, but you've been 

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singing the same thing. 
Oh man, oh man, oh man, man. 

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God, it's, it's a tune. 
It's not, though it takes. 

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Me back anyone around our age? 
I'm 31. 

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You're 4732. 
Actually, that's the same 

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difference. 
Everyone around our age there 

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was that boom when we're like 
teenagers and they I remember 

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what album it was, but it was 
like the album of like the the 

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computerised Queen, the end. 
Oh, we know it was good. 

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I was a huge banger. 
Base band was good, but it was 

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just it was full of banger off 
the banger. 

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What was the other one that was 
like boom, pow, yes, boom, Boom 

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Pow. 
I guess when you look at it, 

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it's it might not be the most 
intricately written song. 

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Yeah, yeah. 
Listen, as like a a big Black 

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Eyed Peas fan before that, you 
know, Monkey Business and 

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Elephant. 
The two hours before that, 

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obviously I go. 
But when this came out, it was 

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different. 
I was like, this is not their 

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style, you know, when you're a 
kid. 

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And it's like, how dare they. 
How dare they experiment with 

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their genre. 
Yeah. 

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And so I was very annoyed. 
But they don't produce. 

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I don't. 
Remember ever being a child and 

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thinking how dare they 
experiment with their genre? 

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I didn't. 
Think that? 

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Well, we live very different 
lives, Dylan. 

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You know you're out partying to 
Boom Boom, Pow and other. 

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Song pow. 
Those something, something man 

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Pow. 
Yeah, that's those people trying

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to be Power I. 
Think that's how it went, yeah. 

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Something like that's 
indistinguishable. 

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Can you? 
Imagine now if we got writing, 

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we, our children in school, 
produced an independent bear. 

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Writing that was like that. 
We'd be like, what is? 

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Where's the front of the verbal 
here? 

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But Sir, you said we're going to
write songs today we need. 

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To have the determiner in the 
right place please. 

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What is Boom Boom power if not 
on a matter here? 

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Take that off the writing list. 
You've done that. 

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You've evidenced that we've. 
Got writing moderation coming 

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up? 
Come on, Black Eyed. 

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Do you know, do you know what 
you Speaking of writing 

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moderation? 
I have to tell you about this 

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because I forgot to mention the 
other day to you, right? 

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I, I saw someone online and this
it ground my gears a little bit 

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because I was a bit like, oh, 
how are we still at this point 

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where people think this, right? 
Someone was saying in a year six

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group that they got writing 
moderation coming up and they 

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were like what what's what, 
what's a good way to get year 

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5-6 spelling words in in their 
writing so that I can take off 

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that they can spell. 
Because one of the like famously

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with with writing moderation, 
there's this, there's the 

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objective of using the national 
curriculum words. 

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Yeah. 
And. 

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So having yeah, any, so anyone 
who doesn't know what that is, 

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it's a list of like 40 to 50 
words, right, for the F500. 

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Wow. 
OK. 

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And, and it's, and it is, it is 
it in the curriculum that you've

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got to use it just for anyone 
because people might not be 

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aware of this, especially they 
have newer teachers and lower 

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down in the school. 
What you're saying is there's a 

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list from the government of 
words that they should learn and

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is it to spell or is it to use 
in writing? 

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I think it's a bit of both. 
It's very vague. 

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That's the point. 
And people have over the years 

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we've decided ourselves 
obviously as a culture that was 

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like, OK, well then to prove, to
prove that they can meet that 

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objective of using, if I explain
words, we must see lots of 

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evidence of them in their 
writing. 

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We're going to look specifically
for those words and it's just 

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not true. 
It's just not true. 

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I've been to enough writing 
moderations now where everyone's

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like, no, that's rubbish. 
What you talking? 

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About, is it not true? 
That is what you're saying that 

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we don't need to use them, 
right? 

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That's what you're saying. 
Is that actually the case or is 

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it classic? 
What always seems to happen, 

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education, is there'll be some 
pockets of people doing 

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moderation where that is seen 
and looked for, and therefore 

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actually those people do need to
do it because you'll be marked 

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down where it's just 
inconsistent. 

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I don't know. 
My gut feeling is honestly just 

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no. 
Yeah, my gut feeling is no. 

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I think people will convince 
themselves that happens and it 

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just doesn't. 
If you've got a kid, right, it's

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just it's that OK, I'm getting 
too carried away and calm down a

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bit. 
If you've got a kid who clearly 

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can spell age expected for your 
six, like their spelling is very

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good in the writing, but you 
can't find the word soldier in 

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it or you can't find the word 
guarantees not in there. 

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Like all the government, all 
these words on this very 

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specific list. 
Isn't it weird the government 

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chose government? 
Yeah, it's got government in 

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there. 
You can't find hindrance in 

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there. 
It's like you're not going to 

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go. 
Oh yeah, I don't think we, I 

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don't think they can spell. 
You're just going to go, well, 

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obviously they can spell. 
It's just such a such a nonsense

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thing. 
People worry about it. 

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And I know the only reason it 
gets my back up a little bit is 

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because I once worked at a 
school and it was a long time 

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ago where they were really, 
really, really particular about 

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that. 
And they were saying, we cannot 

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say they can spell unless 
there's like at least three 

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examples and every bit of 
writing of a year 5-6 spelling 

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word. 
So they were, they were 

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basically shoehorning them in 
being like, they need word mats 

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with them all the time. 
You need to, you need to 

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classify these word mats so that
they're words that would fit 

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with this genre to really 
encourage them to use them. 

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You need to take them off and 
highlight the words as you see 

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them and then go back. 
And then honestly, it got to the

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point where they were like, Oh, 
you didn't do it for this one. 

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Can you go back through all of 
their writing? 

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And I'm just write down on this 
little list here. 

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I made an Excel sheet for you, 
the words that they did using 

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that bit of writing and I was 
like, what are we doing? 

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What do you mean? 
Firstly, this kid can spell, and

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this kid probably won't pass the
spell anything anyway. 

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Regardless of these words, what 
are we talking about? 

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That is crazy. 
And also it's it's just 100 

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words. 
If you've seen the list, you'll 

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know how random they've seen. 
And when we when we make 

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children shoe wand them into 
their writing, we're already 

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struggling to make their writing
always make sense. 

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But then you'll have, like, a, a
diary entry of a girl, let's say

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a young girl who's had a day at 
their aunt's house. 

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And you'll be reading a 
sentence. 

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And you'll know when a teacher 
has said, put in one of these 

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words because it'll just stick 
out like a sore thumb. 

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They'll say something like, 
yeah. 

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And then my aunt sat me down for
some breakfast, which the 

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government said has to be 
healthy. 

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Yeah, yeah, they crossed out. 
They're like with my with my 

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three siblings and they've 
crossed it down. 

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But 40, because 40 is one of the
words on my 12th birthday, 12 

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footer, 12 footer. 
My teacher told me it's 12 

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footer. 
On my 12th birthday brackets, 

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the elf came 12th, the elf came 
12th. 

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That's how I remember to spell 
this word, which shows that I 

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can spell. 
It's just nonsense, like we're 

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losing our minds. 
I was shocked to see it. 

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Basically that's. 
Not still OK, so just, I'm just 

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trying to side with these people
a bit here because there'll be 

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some really good teachers. 
Like, again, earlier in my 

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career, I'd have fallen for that
trap and been like, oh, OK, you 

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do need to have these 100 
curriculum words that are in 

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the, in the national curriculum 
where. 

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But I, I want to dig deeper into
it and maybe some people 

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listening can help us with this 
because, you know, do you have 

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to show evidence of those words 
in your children's writing all 

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the time? 
Because if you don't, why are 

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they even there? 
Like surely they're only there 

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because we do need to evidence 
them and show that children can 

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write them. 
Do they come up more often in 

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the spelling sats? 
Do they do do are, are there, is

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there a barometer there where 
maybe there's more spending 

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rules involved and therefore 
that's why they're good? 

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Or are they just exception 
random words? 

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What is, what is it? 
I think what's happened is 

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we've, we've just thought about 
it the wrong way around. 

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It's, I think that it's my 
understanding that the intention

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is, it's not that we have to 
shoehorn them in. 

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It's that when children 
naturally write these words, we 

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should be just checking to see 
if that's spelling them right. 

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So for example, if a, if a kid 
happens to have used 5 words 

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from this list and all five of 
them are spelt wrong, then we 

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can say, right, OK, well, 
there's an indicator there that 

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these words, they've been 
exposed to this, this list that 

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the government have chosen which
kid is happening to write 

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hindrance. 
Yeah, no, I know. 

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But some of them are like, you 
know, some of them are more 

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shoehorn. 
Yeah. 

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A lot of the words do come up 
because they are generally when 

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you look through the list, they 
are generally a lot of them are 

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just like kind of common. 
They're age conception words, 

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like words where it's like they 
do kind of just not follow a 

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rule, but they're fairly common.
Well, like for example, I know 

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environments in there and I know
a lot of children do a lot of 

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work in science and stuff about 
the environment and I can see 

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how that can maybe that's that's
a good example there of how well

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that's on the list we're going 
to teach about the environment. 

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Let's just make sure my kids 
know how to spell it. 

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But at the end of the day, if 
they finish year 6 and you're 

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sat in a writing moderation and 
you can't find evidence of the 

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word environment in any. 
Of them, you're not going to say

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that can't stop. 
No, exactly, exactly. 

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So I think I don't know it's 
it's a weird. 

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I'm sure there's a grey area 
there. 

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Hence like my school did it 
years ago to me and but I've 

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been at so many moderations 
since then. 

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I've grown maybe more confidence
and I've been to internal 

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moderations in multiple schools 
and I've been an external 

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moderation where you go to like,
you know, work with other 

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teachers and so on, runs it. 
And there's other experts in the

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room. 
And everyone just unanimously 

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agrees that you really don't 
need to be that picky. 

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You can just get a general feel 
of spellings and just look to 

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see if they're spelling things 
right in general. 

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And if there's a clearly a 
problem with spellings, then 

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there's a problem with 
spellings. 

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And you can't take off that 
objective of like, OK, you know,

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there's a lot of year 3 spelling
rules here that are getting 

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wrong consistently. 
Maybe spellings is not something

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we can take off for them. 
So when you compare it to 

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something like if the children 
aren't consistently using 

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capital letters for names, 
etcetera, that's that can be 

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something that stops them 
getting to age expected. 

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But you're saying this list 
alone should be as like a 

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supplementary thing that that 
doesn't necessarily have the 

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same weight as OK, they're 
missing a word. 

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It doesn't make sense that can 
stop you. 

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Whereas not spelling soldier 
incorrectly once or not 

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including it at all. 
Yeah, that's that. 

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Shouldn't, yeah, it's not and it
doesn't. 

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It's not going to happen. 
Honestly, in reality, that is 

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not going to happen if they 
spell everything else correctly 

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and they've got clearly evidence
of let's say we're doing year 6 

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moderation, clearly got evidence
of tonnes of year 6 spending 

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rules being spelled fairly 
consistent. 

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00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:25,360
It doesn't have to be, it 
doesn't have to be every time as

227
00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:27,040
well, just fairly consistently 
correctly. 

228
00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:29,160
They're going to get through on 
the spelling objective and it's 

229
00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:31,120
just not, it's just not going to
matter. 

230
00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:32,960
I think we just put so much 
emphasis on them. 

231
00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:35,280
Just to clarify, I'm also siding
with the teachers. 

232
00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:37,080
I'm not getting annoyed at the 
teachers for asking this. 

233
00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:39,200
I'm getting annoyed at the fact 
that there are still places 

234
00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:42,480
where like they put this on an 
insane pedestal. 

235
00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:44,360
Yeah, I'm like, why are you 
asking me that about? 

236
00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:46,960
Your school shouldn't be making 
you a half term like feel like 

237
00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,600
you have to go away and ask for 
how to shoehorn in these random 

238
00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:51,080
words. 
Like if you're going to worry 

239
00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:52,800
about anything, it should 
probably be of the stuff that 

240
00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:55,840
actually matters in terms of 
like just how they word, how how

241
00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:58,240
they form their sentences and 
grammar and punctuation and 

242
00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:00,960
stuff that actually impacts the 
flow of writing and how a reader

243
00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:02,480
interprets it. 
And inference and 

244
00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:04,800
personification, figurative 
language, All of the stuff that 

245
00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:07,360
like actually matters for being 
good at writing. 

246
00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:10,600
I tell you what spelling, that 
random list of words that the 

247
00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:12,520
government have decided is, is 
important. 

248
00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:16,800
The government, the government 
with an N is honestly at the 

249
00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:18,960
absolute bottom. 
It's the absolute bottom. 

250
00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:20,400
It should not be anywhere near 
the top. 

251
00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:22,440
And it just is for some reason 
for some people, so. 

252
00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:24,600
Staying on moderation for a 
minute, then it's moderation 

253
00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:27,560
season, I guess at the moment in
schools and a lot of people be 

254
00:09:27,560 --> 00:09:31,920
going through this process. 
I always remember deputy head 

255
00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:34,680
that I worked with mentioning 
how, and you might remember from

256
00:09:34,680 --> 00:09:37,800
school where writing was 
assessed for more formally and 

257
00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:39,880
then it came in that it was more
teacher assessment and then 

258
00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:42,800
therefore moderation came in. 
Do you think in general then 

259
00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:45,600
based on what you're saying, you
could you could frame what 

260
00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:49,440
you're saying to, to argue that 
moderation is really important 

261
00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:53,120
because we won't have these 
people stuck in schools who have

262
00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:55,440
this kind of top down heavy of 
this is really important. 

263
00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:58,560
When actually it's not like the 
only way you might actually find

264
00:09:58,560 --> 00:10:01,520
out that it's not important and 
is through moderation, going to 

265
00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:03,320
other schools and seeing 
experts, etcetera. 

266
00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:06,360
So I guess I've got a broad 
question to you now as a Year 6 

267
00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:10,280
teacher who who teaches writing 
to some very capable writers. 

268
00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:15,040
Do you think that the moderation
process is is the correct way to

269
00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:18,080
go about assessing children in 
their writing? 

270
00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:21,800
I think it look, it's a flawed 
system. 

271
00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:25,920
I don't know if I think I don't 
want to say right now, yes, it's

272
00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:28,080
the correct way. 
I think it is a fairly good 

273
00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:28,760
system. 
Is it? 

274
00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:31,280
Better than having an assessed 
piece that's timed and then just

275
00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:33,960
40 minutes and it goes off to 
someone who marks it because I 

276
00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:36,440
I'm struggling to see how it 
can't be better than that. 

277
00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:40,000
I think so, and I'm going to 
trust a lot of my elder teachers

278
00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:43,000
who will unanimously also tell 
me that moderation is much more 

279
00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:45,480
of a fair system to that old 
system like that. 

280
00:10:45,560 --> 00:10:48,640
So I do think it is, but just 
thinking about moderation again,

281
00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:51,240
having had lots of experience 
going to moderations, firstly, I

282
00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:55,800
do agree, I think it does allow 
a bit more of a like a, rather 

283
00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:57,600
than 15 different schools 
interpreting something all 

284
00:10:57,600 --> 00:10:59,120
separately, right? 
It does kind of bring you 

285
00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:00,960
together and be like, hang on a 
minute, let's just like fresh 

286
00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:04,200
page here, let's all agree 
together now that this is kind 

287
00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:05,120
of the standard we're looking 
for. 

288
00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:06,840
Now go back to your schools and 
make sure like we've got the 

289
00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:08,640
same information. 
It does kind of level the 

290
00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:11,400
playing field a bit in terms of 
that, but also people do just 

291
00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:13,800
ignore it sometimes. 
Not everyone goes to every 

292
00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:16,200
moderation. 
Sometimes there's an internal 

293
00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:17,760
moderation. 
So you will just be isolated 

294
00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:21,000
with one person coming in. 
Is that is that so with an 

295
00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:23,560
internal moderation. 
So throughout the year, lots of 

296
00:11:23,560 --> 00:11:26,120
schools and trusts, etcetera 
will set up moderations into 

297
00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:28,720
school and you'll kind of go and
there'll be 5 other 

298
00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:31,680
representatives represent 
representatives from other 

299
00:11:31,680 --> 00:11:33,080
schools on the same table as 
you. 

300
00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:36,040
Maybe you're all in year 4, for 
example, you'll bring a book and

301
00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:38,240
you'll say something like, I 
think this is expected because 

302
00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:39,840
of that. 
I don't think this child's quite

303
00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:42,680
expected because of this. 
And then everyone kind of brings

304
00:11:42,680 --> 00:11:45,440
what they say is each level and 
you look at them and you go, 

305
00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:47,000
well, actually that's better 
than what I thought. 

306
00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:49,480
Oh, no, that all right. 
You would you would say this is 

307
00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:51,440
expected interesting, because I 
wouldn't. 

308
00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:53,760
And that is a nice way to 
balance the playing field. 

309
00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,320
I think that's where it's good. 
But what I still see a lot 

310
00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:59,680
online of, and maybe you could 
comment on this, is there's 

311
00:11:59,680 --> 00:12:03,640
still huge discrepancies out 
there and there's still the the 

312
00:12:03,680 --> 00:12:06,800
the thing that gets my back up 
about moderation is how easy it 

313
00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:09,480
is to fudge things through and 
basically cheat because the the 

314
00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:11,600
amount of times you've seen 
like, you know, moderation where

315
00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:14,440
well, if just if, if this one 
gets through, we can argue the 

316
00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:15,960
rest. 
We'll just make sure if this 

317
00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:18,360
person gets through, that gives 
us 15 expected and we won't 

318
00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:21,720
really look at those or and, you
know, we can talk about cheating

319
00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:24,120
in general aside of what you do 
with the children. 

320
00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:26,760
But moderation itself can be 
kind of a green flag sometimes 

321
00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:29,840
to usher your way through and 
get your your stats up. 

322
00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:31,800
Yeah. 
And and also there's people 

323
00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:34,480
online who put a piece of 
writing up and say, just 

324
00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:37,480
wondering, is this greater depth
and it's not even expected? 

325
00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:39,240
Yeah, yeah, it's not even at the
expected level. 

326
00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:42,160
And so is moderation failing 
because we still have people who

327
00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:44,240
clearly, you know, clearly we're
miles off and. 

328
00:12:44,680 --> 00:12:46,840
I don't think it's failing. 
I think it's, it's a system that

329
00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:49,320
is constantly being fed in new 
teachers and old teachers are 

330
00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:50,240
leaving. 
Do you know what I mean? 

331
00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:52,280
Like old, that's horrible 
teachers are leaving. 

332
00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:54,280
They don't be old, but new 
teachers are constantly coming 

333
00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:55,160
in. 
It might just be they haven't 

334
00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:57,080
had experience with it yet. 
I think when we see examples of 

335
00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:58,840
that, they're probably just less
experienced and this is their 

336
00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:00,160
learning curve. 
And then maybe they'll go to 

337
00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:01,800
moderation at some point. 
Maybe it's their first year in 

338
00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:04,040
year 6 where they're going to an
official moderation. 

339
00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:05,600
I don't know, like I don't think
it's failing. 

340
00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:08,560
I think it's probably just 
fringe examples where where it, 

341
00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:10,800
you know, hasn't caught them yet
Or like you said, it's not 

342
00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:12,160
perfect system. 
There are still going to be 

343
00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:14,880
people that do go to moderation 
and ultimately don't get out of 

344
00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:15,800
it. 
Probably what they should have 

345
00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:17,760
got out of it. 
But I reckon the vast majority 

346
00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:20,400
of people do go to moderation 
and come out feeling pretty, 

347
00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:22,880
pretty well understood in terms 
of what the expectations are. 

348
00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:25,960
But going back to one point, 
you're so right, because with 

349
00:13:26,560 --> 00:13:28,760
with moderation, cross 
moderation, we get invited to 

350
00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:30,120
it. 
It's very official as year six 

351
00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:32,640
teachers, we do get invited to 
it and it's very much expected 

352
00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:34,400
to attend. 
You don't have to, but it does 

353
00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:36,840
open the door for more scrutiny 
and checking with internal 

354
00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:39,480
moderations in future years. 
It's kind of like come along or 

355
00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:41,080
you're going to end up, there's 
going to be a consequence. 

356
00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:43,160
So you have to pretty much have 
to go for people who aren't in 

357
00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:45,520
year 6 very quickly. 
It's, it's important because 

358
00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,720
year six teachers will decide 
the grade at the end, whereas 

359
00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:50,840
other year groups, you can kind 
of have a linear approach and 

360
00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:52,840
schools can decide. 
But for you, it's vital. 

361
00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:54,720
Yeah, it's the actual key. 
It'll actually be recorded. 

362
00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:56,480
The actual end of key stage 2, 
right? 

363
00:13:56,560 --> 00:13:58,880
Writing assessment is genuinely 
down to us and it will go down 

364
00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:04,600
on paper, but it just says bring
either five books or 15% of your

365
00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:06,680
cohort if your cohort's over 
like a certain number. 

366
00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:10,200
So we end up taking like of our 
90 odd cohort, we take like 15 

367
00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:13,960
odd books and 14/14/15 books. 
And it just has to have a, you 

368
00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:17,000
know, a variety of levels there.
So most of those books will be 

369
00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:18,320
expected. 
You'll take a couple of greater 

370
00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:19,720
depths because you're 
realistically, you're not going 

371
00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:21,800
to get loads of them and you'll 
take a few you're sort of 

372
00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:24,240
working towards or maybe even 
below just so you've got a 

373
00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:26,160
variety and you can, and you can
go there and then you can say, 

374
00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:28,840
right, have we got this right? 
And if all 15 books have kind of

375
00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,560
been assessed appropriately and,
and people around you agree, 

376
00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:33,800
maybe the lead moderator that's 
there who kind of wandering 

377
00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:35,800
around, they agree of your 
gradings as well. 

378
00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:37,760
All gets written down. 
And generally what happens is if

379
00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:40,640
everyone agrees, you go back, 
they're like, OK, we can trust 

380
00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:43,560
that school to, to grade the 
other 85% of their books. 

381
00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:46,080
Yes, crack on, right. 
But you've got free choice of 

382
00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:47,520
which 15 books. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

383
00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:49,720
So, yeah, yeah. 
Obviously, and I don't, you 

384
00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:52,720
know, you can tell me whether 
you what where you think this is

385
00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:55,800
on the scale of cheating to not 
Obviously people are naturally 

386
00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:57,640
going to pick books they're more
confident in that are actually 

387
00:14:57,640 --> 00:14:59,680
going to be upgraded as the 
thing they said they are because

388
00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:01,360
you are rewarded for getting the
grading right. 

389
00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:02,520
Yeah. 
So obviously you're going to 

390
00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:03,880
not. 
No one's really going there. 

391
00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:06,200
The idea is you take your custom
books, you take your custom 

392
00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:07,800
books to help work out whether 
they are. 

393
00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:09,800
Yeah, but really, people just 
want to go there. 

394
00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:13,800
OK, so to me, right, that is why
I think moderation where it's 

395
00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:15,080
pointless. 
Yeah, that's the biggest. 

396
00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:17,160
So this, this is where I think 
there is a huge fall in the 

397
00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:20,280
system because it becomes 
playing a game and we all sit 

398
00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:22,160
there and smile and, and not at 
each other as if they say, 

399
00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:24,760
aren't we all fantastic at 
bringing what is clearly an 

400
00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:26,520
expected book to the table? 
Isn't that great? 

401
00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:29,560
And the government don't help 
because the government, what 

402
00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:32,120
they give us examples of 
expecting and working towards, 

403
00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:35,040
etcetera, are very strong, 
secure, expected. 

404
00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:37,440
So and then, and then the 
conversation is, Oh yeah, well, 

405
00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:40,080
we don't want to go too close to
the custody line between what is

406
00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:42,600
expected and what isn't because,
you know, we, we might muddy the

407
00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:44,680
waters and there's a, there's a 
professional dialogue to have 

408
00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:46,840
and you can decide yourself. 
I'm like, OK, cool. 

409
00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:49,440
Well, if you're not going to 
give me that, I'm obviously 

410
00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:51,840
going to take my strong books. 
This moderation and what we 

411
00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:55,880
aren't doing at all, I don't 
think efficiently is teaching 

412
00:15:55,880 --> 00:16:00,880
staff exactly what makes 
something very, very high 

413
00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:04,160
working towards nearly there but
not quite and what makes someone

414
00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:04,840
absolutely. 
Yeah. 

415
00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:06,080
OK. 
You just got there, but you are 

416
00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:07,040
expecting? 
Very low working. 

417
00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:11,600
That line exactly that very low 
expected that line is not to me 

418
00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:15,160
being made very clear to most of
the profession which allows for 

419
00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:17,480
this like, well, obviously, OK, 
I'm going to bump them up then. 

420
00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:19,880
And when I go to moderation, I'm
not going to take the kid I 

421
00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:22,720
think who is just about on that 
line because what moderation 

422
00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:24,800
should be is you take your 
lowest child of what you think 

423
00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,560
has achieved expected. 
It gets nodded through maybe 

424
00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:28,960
like, OK, yeah, do you know what
just about. 

425
00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:32,240
And then that does give you the 
green flag to everyone above 

426
00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:34,200
that to be like, well, if this 
is then that's great. 

427
00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:36,640
What's actually happening is 
you're taking your most secure 

428
00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,880
expected children and then going
down the line and being like, 

429
00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:42,640
well, because that because this 
person who never no one would 

430
00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:45,200
ever disagree is expected has 
been agreed to be expected. 

431
00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:46,240
Who would ever have thought 
that? 

432
00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:48,200
Wow. 
Because of that, everyone I've 

433
00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:53,200
put expected now is that is not,
to me, an accurate use or a good

434
00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:55,880
use of moderation time because 
we're jumping through hoops. 

435
00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:58,600
We're trying to get data, we're 
trying to boost our scores more 

436
00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:01,560
than we are actually trying to 
properly decide where children 

437
00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:02,320
are on the. 
Scale. 

438
00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:04,560
And that's why I think it's a 
flawed system and I don't want 

439
00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:06,640
to discredit everyone because 
I'm sure some people do actually

440
00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:09,839
go with the proper intent of I 
am actually going to take the 

441
00:17:09,839 --> 00:17:11,280
kids that I'm not too sure of 
and I'm going to use the 

442
00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:12,599
moderation process to get this 
right. 

443
00:17:12,599 --> 00:17:15,440
But then, but then those people 
get punished because other 

444
00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:17,800
people on the table will also 
say, OK, these are all my 

445
00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,720
expected children and that 
someone else has brought someone

446
00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:24,359
who's solid expected, who 
clearly is gets compared then to

447
00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:26,720
your one who's Cusby. 
And what's more likely to happen

448
00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:28,720
is say, well, they're not there.
So probably that's working 

449
00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:31,520
towards because unless 
everyone's doing it properly, 

450
00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:34,320
you're gonna be punished for 
bringing your lower children in 

451
00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:35,160
that moderation. 
Process. 

452
00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:37,840
Yeah, I agree. 
And why ultimately does this 

453
00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:41,760
happen because there is pressure
to hit data standards from the 

454
00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:43,080
government. 
The government are saying well 

455
00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:45,360
national average is 72% is 
inflated every year by the 

456
00:17:45,360 --> 00:17:47,840
previous year, sure. 
Then our national standards are 

457
00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:52,120
74% of children are are expected
in writing so you better hit 

458
00:17:52,120 --> 00:17:53,760
that. 
So OK, well, if you're telling 

459
00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:55,520
that to teachers, oh, by the 
way, your pay is performance 

460
00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:57,240
related. 
OK, well it's funny that 

461
00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:59,600
everyone's suddenly getting 74 
plus percent, isn't it? 

462
00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:02,160
You know, I'm obviously knocks, 
that's how averages work, but. 

463
00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:04,040
Yeah, yeah. 
I don't know, I think that the 

464
00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:05,520
the top down pressure doesn't 
help. 

465
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:09,360
I think, I think moderation 
itself could be more straight in

466
00:18:09,360 --> 00:18:10,880
terms of the rules of like how 
it works. 

467
00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:12,720
It might be able to do 
moderation, yeah, rather than 

468
00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:15,360
just saying bring books and oh, 
you know. 

469
00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:17,360
Try on the back. 
Try on the back, try and bring 

470
00:18:17,360 --> 00:18:18,560
books that around, you know, the
cusp. 

471
00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:20,120
Oh yeah, cool. 
Everyone's like, yeah, OK, cool,

472
00:18:20,120 --> 00:18:21,280
I'll bring books around the cusp
level. 

473
00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:23,560
Bloody not gonna make sure my 
date is good because I'm gonna 

474
00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:26,120
I'm in an Academy trust and 
they're not gonna pay me next 

475
00:18:26,120 --> 00:18:27,560
year unless I get this hit this 
target. 

476
00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:31,280
Yeah, what it could, you know, 
maybe, maybe moderation could be

477
00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:33,840
redesigned a little bit where 
it's like, no, no, no, this game

478
00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,320
is like you're bringing way 
fewer books now everyone has to 

479
00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:39,360
bring you have to bring your top
working towards and your lowest 

480
00:18:39,360 --> 00:18:40,240
expected. 
You have to. 

481
00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:42,720
And if you get it vastly wrong, 
if you're bringing your best 

482
00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:44,880
expected and trying to pretend 
that it's lowest expected, it'll

483
00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:47,120
be obviously get called out. 
It's like, OK, well you're 

484
00:18:47,120 --> 00:18:48,640
great. 
It always backfires. 

485
00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:50,600
Like if you think that's your 
lowest expected, you're not, 

486
00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:52,760
you're not very secure of the 
teacher assessment framework, 

487
00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:54,720
which means your gradings are 
probably quite wrong. 

488
00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:56,840
So I guess we need to do 
internal moderation with you 

489
00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:59,840
because even if that's wrong, so
it's like being held more 

490
00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:02,720
accountable maybe to like the 
very strict parameters could be 

491
00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:04,680
a good way of identifying 
whether teachers, because the 

492
00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:06,160
whole point is, do they 
understand the teacher 

493
00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,440
assessment framework and are 
therefore assessing their 

494
00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:10,720
children's books correctly? 
That's all we want to know at 

495
00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:12,840
moderation. 
From a moderation's perspective,

496
00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,360
are schools doing it properly? 
Because you can't go, you can't 

497
00:19:15,360 --> 00:19:17,360
go in. 
When we say internally moderate,

498
00:19:17,360 --> 00:19:20,800
we mean like an external source 
coming into a school, moderating

499
00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,000
that school in particular. 
And that's a really stressful 

500
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:24,920
time. 
Actually, if you get chosen for 

501
00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:27,960
that internal moderation, it is 
stressful because then you are 

502
00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:31,360
under much more of a microscope.
So you've got to ask yourself 

503
00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:33,920
the question, why is that more 
stressful than the other 

504
00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:35,880
moderation? 
It's because it's more of a 

505
00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:37,400
moderation. 
Yeah, because the other 

506
00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:39,640
moderation, which is just 
between schools and the choice 

507
00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:42,640
is much more laid back, is much 
more backpacking, is much more 

508
00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:44,120
saying, OK, cool, aren't we all 
great? 

509
00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:47,000
That internal moderation, the 
reason people get their cackles 

510
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:49,400
up if they get chosen, is 
because they know they're about 

511
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:51,440
to be exposed as inflating the 
scores. 

512
00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:52,680
Yeah. 
Also, you can't pick your books,

513
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:54,080
right? 
When it's when internal 

514
00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:55,840
moderators come through, you 
give them a class list and they 

515
00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:57,720
just pick randomly kids. 
So if they pick a kid that you 

516
00:19:57,720 --> 00:19:59,280
wouldn't have taken the 
moderation because you're like, 

517
00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:00,960
oh, that's one of my custody 
ones that I want to put as 

518
00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:02,200
expected, but someone might 
argue. 

519
00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:04,800
It down and they pick it then 
tough luck mate, because you've 

520
00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:07,120
already put it as expected. 
And if they knock it down, yeah,

521
00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:08,400
if they knock it down, they have
to. 

522
00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:11,600
It triggers like if they do it 
with a few books, yeah, it 

523
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:13,480
triggers them having to look at 
every single book, yeah. 

524
00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:16,680
Yeah, so and what's gonna happen
when they do pick a random book 

525
00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:18,360
and it happens to be a random 
book you've forgotten to take 

526
00:20:18,360 --> 00:20:20,160
your post it notes out of where 
you've completely cheated and 

527
00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:22,480
told the children what to write.
What happens then? 

528
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:24,320
Oh. 
Yeah, just very quickly last 

529
00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:25,920
thing on this point about 
writing and stuff because it 

530
00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:28,800
does really annoy me the fact 
we've all kind of accepted and 

531
00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:32,560
it's just normal to say, yeah, 
just do feedback with post it 

532
00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:34,520
notes so we can take it out and 
no one will see it at the end 

533
00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:36,120
that is. 
Cheating. 

534
00:20:36,120 --> 00:20:37,480
Yeah, it's crazy how it's 
cheating. 

535
00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:39,680
Some people might be like, don't
do that in my school. 

536
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:43,360
Okay, maybe you don't, but I 
tell you what, we speak to a lot

537
00:20:43,360 --> 00:20:46,720
of teachers now and we get 
stories all the time about stuff

538
00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:47,840
like this. 
This is happening in this 

539
00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:49,040
school. 
I worked in a school that did 

540
00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:50,280
this. 
I know someone who works in a 

541
00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:53,440
school, did this all the time, 
about how they just cheat, flirt

542
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:54,440
around. 
No, no, no, no. 

543
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:54,960
Cheat. 
No. 

544
00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:56,520
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
This is what this is. 

545
00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:58,880
I'm, I'm not, I'm not annoyed at
you or anything. 

546
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:01,400
I'm just saying in general, we 
do consistently cheat as a 

547
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:03,280
profession. 
Yeah, we we absolutely do. 

548
00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:05,680
Because as soon as you're 
saying, oh, it's OK, put it on 

549
00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:07,920
the post it note. 
So it's not in the book, you are

550
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:10,360
by definition saying it's 
because you know that's cheating

551
00:21:10,360 --> 00:21:12,280
to do that. 
And you know by definition that 

552
00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:15,560
if that exact same thing you've 
done is witnessed by someone, it

553
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:17,800
would then be not an independent
piece of writing. 

554
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:21,480
So you when, if, if you know of 
anyone or a school who is doing 

555
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:23,640
that kind of thing where there 
are post it notes going into 

556
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:26,520
work to rewrite stuff or 
teachers sat with children to 

557
00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:27,880
say, no, no, rewrite this, this 
is wrong. 

558
00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:30,520
Because of that, it's not 
independent in writing anymore. 

559
00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,360
It can't be used in moderation 
and it doesn't show that child's

560
00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:35,640
ability in writing. 
Whether we want to say it's 

561
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,520
because of external pressures or
not or things from the top, I'm 

562
00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:40,880
all I'm all ears and we should 
maybe change that. 

563
00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:44,120
But it But please call a spade a
spade, because that is. 

564
00:21:44,120 --> 00:21:46,520
Cheating, Yeah, fair play. 
Can we finish this conversation 

565
00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:48,800
with one little Horror Story? 
Just just my own experience is 

566
00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:50,840
not to do not to do with that. 
I'm not going to sit here and be

567
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,120
like I was cheating and the 
thing I'm not going to go. 

568
00:21:53,120 --> 00:21:55,640
That's just not what's happened.
But there are just a Horror 

569
00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:56,920
Story of moderation in general, 
right? 

570
00:21:57,600 --> 00:21:59,920
With a school I worked in again 
many, many years ago, right. 

571
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:02,960
And to be given credit, it was 
all fairly new for them as well.

572
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:05,000
It was a fairly new process. 
It was a new cohort or whatever 

573
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,000
new year says, quite a new 
curriculum, I suppose, quite a 

574
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:08,520
new curriculum. 
It was a fairly new school in 

575
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:10,360
all this case or whatever, and 
all people were nice and 

576
00:22:10,360 --> 00:22:12,480
well-intentioned. 
But it did end up getting to the

577
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:14,920
point where we had an internal 
moderation booked in. 

578
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:17,320
We knew someone was coming in. 
We knew it was the scary 

579
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:19,600
version. 
I was the E6 teacher and I 

580
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:24,360
basically just got coerced into 
taking all the books home and 

581
00:22:24,360 --> 00:22:27,200
having to sit there with an 
open, open document and have to 

582
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:31,960
make honestly, like a page table
per piece of writing per kid for

583
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:34,960
the last like 5 bits of writing 
to show all of the evidence of 

584
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:36,200
all the stuff that they could 
do. 

585
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:37,880
Right. 
And I remember saying to them, 

586
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,000
this seems really pointless 
because the moderator will just 

587
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:41,120
look for the book and find it 
themselves. 

588
00:22:41,120 --> 00:22:42,880
That's like, that's like the 
entire point of their job. 

589
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,280
Why are we providing them like 
this list of like exactly where 

590
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:46,400
to find it? 
And they were, they were like, 

591
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,280
oh, it's, you know, firstly, 
it's a good way for us to check 

592
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:49,600
that these books are definitely 
expected. 

593
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:51,080
I was like, OK, fair enough. 
You're making sure our 

594
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:53,240
assessments are right by going 
through the bits of writing, 

595
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:55,200
making sure we definitely have 
ticked off all these things. 

596
00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:59,600
But come on. 
And I spent my whole half term, 

597
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:03,520
not joking, like 2-3 hours per 
book per kid where I was going 

598
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,360
through that blast, like 5 bits 
of writing, having to write down

599
00:23:06,360 --> 00:23:08,400
this table. 
And one of the columns was EFI 6

600
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:09,640
spelling words, what words 
they've used. 

601
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:11,920
One of them was I just had to 
take off every single objective,

602
00:23:12,120 --> 00:23:13,840
whether that objective was 
ticked off in that bit of 

603
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,760
writing. 
And it took me days and days and

604
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:18,240
days of my term. 
And I really didn't want to do 

605
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:19,120
it. 
But they were at the point where

606
00:23:19,120 --> 00:23:21,520
they were basically like, I felt
like I was doing a terrible job 

607
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:23,200
if I didn't do this. 
Like I was an awful teacher 

608
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,440
because they were putting so 
much pressure on and then do you

609
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:26,480
know what happened in 
moderation? 

610
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:30,280
Exactly what I told them would 
happen in moderation 5000 times 

611
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,560
before that, which was the 
moderator won't even pick these 

612
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:34,600
up. 
Didn't sat there in a pile the 

613
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:36,520
whole time. 
My a whole half term just sat 

614
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:38,800
there in this pile. 
Even said oh, we've got this and

615
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:40,600
said oh, OK, yeah, let's have a 
look at the book. 

616
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:41,880
Spent 3 minutes looking at the 
book. 

617
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:43,360
Yeah, obviously expected. 
Yeah. 

618
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:44,320
Exactly. 
Cool. 

619
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:46,160
OK, so you can just get a feel. 
Yeah, of course I can get a 

620
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:47,240
feel. 
I'm a moderator and I've looked 

621
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:49,480
at thousands of books. 
I I can see when a kid is 

622
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,680
clearly expected because do you 
know what the the range of being

623
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,720
expected is freaking huge. 
So when they're up in this top 

624
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:57,960
range, it's really obvious 
immediately that they're there. 

625
00:23:57,960 --> 00:23:59,880
You don't even have to sit there
and go from every single 

626
00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:01,200
objective. 
It's so obvious. 

627
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:03,720
So as a trained moderator, you 
go, OK, that's clearly expected.

628
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:05,040
Well, maybe should we check for 
greater depth? 

629
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:06,360
Let's have a look. 
No, they haven't really hit 

630
00:24:06,360 --> 00:24:08,160
these standards of greater 
depth, but very strong expected.

631
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:10,000
Well done. 
There's my 3 hours of work on 

632
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:11,920
that child going through and 
writing out every single time 

633
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:13,440
they wrote the word government 
and hindrance in there. 

634
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:16,720
Oh my God, like that to me, I 
quit that school. 

635
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:19,640
I'd already quit by that point 
because I could see how I was 

636
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:21,680
just going to hate working in 
conditions like that because it 

637
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,280
was just absence of common sense
and I just couldn't do it. 

638
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:27,520
I just couldn't do it. 
That is the killer, isn't it? 

639
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:29,160
That is the killer in school, I 
must say. 

640
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,480
You know, I've, I've not got the
most experience in the world 

641
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:34,520
about other workplaces and 
stuff, but I have worked in 

642
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:36,080
other workplaces beforehand for 
a bit. 

643
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:40,840
I did AI did a couple of weeks. 
I got, you know, headhunted 

644
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,440
classic like out of graduate 
scheme to come and do this thing

645
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:48,160
and, and the job was basically 
head hunting for, for tech firms

646
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,280
and getting people in. 
I, I did all that for a few 

647
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:51,920
weeks up in London. 
I travelled in and stuff. 

648
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,200
And I, I, I just think from what
I've seen and what I've heard 

649
00:24:55,200 --> 00:25:01,120
from people, the, the amount of 
in education, the stuff we do 

650
00:25:01,120 --> 00:25:05,120
that is so ridiculously 
pointless, like what you've just

651
00:25:05,120 --> 00:25:09,120
said, utterly, completely 
absolute waste of time. 

652
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,440
The amount of stuff that we do 
in education, which falls into 

653
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:14,880
that bracket is completely 
insane. 

654
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,600
And This is why I'm really 
passionate about when we do this

655
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,920
podcast and when we talk about 
this stuff, because the idea of 

656
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:24,520
having Someone Like You, what 
you just said in the air of 

657
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,240
someone now who's 2-3 years in 
the same position, being forced 

658
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,200
to do something. 
And you're there saying, guys, 

659
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,120
I've come out the other side. 
And you are right. 

660
00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:32,680
It is pointless. 
Yeah. 

661
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,680
It to know that sometimes just 
because someone's in a position 

662
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,800
of power over you in work does 
not automatically mean that they

663
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,960
know what they're talking about.
Because in that situation, you 

664
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:43,120
were right. 
And it didn't matter. 

665
00:25:43,120 --> 00:25:45,280
You were three years into your 
career and they were 74 years 

666
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:47,640
into their career. 
It didn't matter that they could

667
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:49,160
try and justify it in some way. 
Yeah. 

668
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:50,880
Yeah. 
The argument was so balanced to 

669
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:52,960
your side, but you still did it 
because you felt pressured into 

670
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:54,280
doing it. 
Guys, don't feel pressured into 

671
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,600
doing anything like. 
That I wish I had the Gump back 

672
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:58,520
then to, to have this voice I 
have now. 

673
00:25:58,520 --> 00:25:59,960
Because I knew what I what I 
just said there. 

674
00:25:59,960 --> 00:26:01,920
I knew that then. 
I knew it, but I just wasn't as 

675
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:03,160
confident. 
So what's the only difference 

676
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,280
between then and now for you? 
Is it that confidence to be like

677
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,080
I know my right to know I've is 
it experience? 

678
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:09,080
Does it just come with 
experience? 

679
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:10,680
For me it's. 
Experience and because I because

680
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,240
I have been through, I guess now
I can look back and be like, I 

681
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:15,200
literally know it's not even a 
guess anymore. 

682
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,080
I know this is pointless. 
And I tell you what, if you 

683
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:18,960
don't believe me, let's go back 
in time and I'll go show them 

684
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:20,640
what I did and be like, look, 
none of these got looked at. 

685
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,640
Just so you know, but and also, 
like you said, just like, you 

686
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,000
know, I like to think that if, 
if this, what we've produced 

687
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:30,040
here existed and I was telling 
myself this, that that that 

688
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,320
amount of time ago, I might 
genuinely have not done it if I 

689
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:33,880
had to have had a bit back up. 
I was alone. 

690
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,800
I was completely alone. 
No one was on my side. 

691
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:38,520
I didn't have anyone backing up 
my voice. 

692
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:40,840
I was just alone, so I fell for 
the pressure. 

693
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:42,480
Well, guys, look, you're not 
alone. 

694
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,000
You've got us, Dylan and Hayden 
to talk you through all this 

695
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:46,800
stuff. 
We're going to go now and talk 

696
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:48,520
about after that lovely chat 
about moderation. 

697
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:52,480
I think if I were to define 2, 
two things that that are really 

698
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,040
important at this part of the 
year and take up so much time 

699
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,160
for teachers, it is writing 
moderation that we've just 

700
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,200
spoken about and it is writing 
reports. 

701
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,720
So let's dive into it, Look a 
little bit AI in general and how

702
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:03,920
it can help and just that kind 
of whole discussion. 

703
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:08,440
I'm really excited if you've got
this fine to the episode which 

704
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:10,040
you have because you're 
listening to me right now and 

705
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:11,920
you haven't left us a review 
yet. 

706
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,400
Wherever you're listening to us,
where it's Spotify, Apple 

707
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,000
podcast, all that good stuff. 
It really helps us out if you 

708
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,720
can just leave us a five star 
review right now. 

709
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,520
Because also I think a big thing
that we're going to notice in 

710
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,040
the next few years, all podcasts
will be completely dead because 

711
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:27,320
AI is going to take over and 
there won't be here we go 

712
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:29,840
anyway, here we go. 
So whilst we can, if you can 

713
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,280
give us a review guys, we would 
really appreciate it. 

714
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,760
Please, let's get to 300 before 
the bots take over. 

715
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,240
Wow. 
Well, that's that's at the tone,

716
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:39,360
didn't it? 
That's my segue. 

717
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:41,040
Yeah, yeah. 
Should we talk about AI Dylan? 

718
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,720
Yeah, I think let's just root it
in the fact that we're going to 

719
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,760
be talking about reports and a 
big thing in the last few years.

720
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:50,120
We've done an episode I think 
every year since 2023. 

721
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,640
We did one in 2024 and this time
we're doing one now. 

722
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:56,640
Because I do think there is a 
huge force for good in using AI 

723
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:01,080
to help save time, in particular
parts of teaching and especially

724
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:05,160
in report writing when we are 
making big huge reams of text. 

725
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,360
We're going to, we get into that
and why we think it's a good 

726
00:28:07,360 --> 00:28:09,440
thing, the drawbacks, etcetera. 
And have a bit of a debate. 

727
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,520
But I think first I want to talk
about AI in general in 

728
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,240
education. 
And then even before that, I 

729
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,080
want to take a meta look at the 
minute very quickly about AI. 

730
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:20,520
Because there'll be lots of 
people listening. 

731
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:22,560
There'll be some people who are 
really down a rabbit hole with 

732
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,120
what AI is doing at the minute. 
And there'll be some people who 

733
00:28:25,120 --> 00:28:28,360
still just see AI as ChatGPT 
writing me a waggle, like what a

734
00:28:28,360 --> 00:28:30,760
good one looks like in my class 
with some determiners in there. 

735
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,200
Hayden, can you just try and 
summarise briefly for people 

736
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:39,000
listening right now where we're 
at in terms of AI and, and what 

737
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:42,520
it's doing and why? 
Actually, there's a little bit, 

738
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:44,600
we feel a bit of trepidation 
about it. 

739
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,840
Yeah, OK, So large language 
models, what everyone thinks of 

740
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,480
ChatGPT in its infancy. 
When we first got it a couple of

741
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,040
years ago, it was just a really 
good large language model. 

742
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:55,520
It was very good at predicting 
how to say things to us. 

743
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:57,080
And everyone was like, oh, it 
seems so human. 

744
00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:58,480
We were like, no, it's not 
human. 

745
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,200
It just knows how to predict the
best words in order to say to 

746
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:02,080
us. 
That's all it is. 

747
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,520
Couple of years down the line, a
lot of money's been pumped into 

748
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:07,640
AI. 
It's getting insanely good at 

749
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:09,720
reasoning now. 
It's getting considerably better

750
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:11,520
at solving problems and 
logistics and reasoning. 

751
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:13,760
It's in the background. 
It's gone down this whole lines 

752
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:15,240
of like developing code and 
developing apps. 

753
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,480
And we're at the point now where
it's even getting to the idea of

754
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:19,680
like, oh, we can actually 
replace entire jobs with AI now.

755
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,040
We can make things called AI 
agents, which is essentially a 

756
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,440
huge workflow of lots of AI 
doing loads of different things 

757
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:28,000
into one culmination of, oh, 
this is basically what a job is.

758
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,720
And importantly, the thing with 
an AI agent is where it used to 

759
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:33,920
be a language model, where it 
predict text or use the Internet

760
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:37,000
to find information, etc, but it
would just do that job. 

761
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:40,000
Yeah, with an AI model, I'm 
right in thinking that there's 

762
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,160
reasoning involved. 
There's thinking involved. 

763
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:43,760
There's a lot of reasoning 
involved and there's a lot of 

764
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:45,840
collaboration with other 
applications. 

765
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:47,360
Sure, that's what it can do 
really, really well now. 

766
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:51,200
So it's the point where people 
can build an AI agent to do 

767
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:53,000
honestly, to do an entire like a
marketing job. 

768
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:55,920
You can click a button and it 
will go for this huge workflow 

769
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:57,280
of things. 
And it will and it will write a 

770
00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:58,640
Gmail and it will send the 
Gmail. 

771
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,440
It will collect the data. 
It will then create because it's

772
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:02,760
because image generation is 
really good now. 

773
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:04,080
It will then create an image 
post. 

774
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:05,720
It will post it on your 
platforms because you've given 

775
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:07,680
it access to do that. 
It will harvest the data. 

776
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:09,960
It will repost good ones. 
Like you can build a whole 

777
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,280
machine, which is someone's job 
out of AI now. 

778
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:14,960
And it's crazy, the. 
Stuff isn't there like where you

779
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,280
know you can have it like, for 
example, weather dependent and 

780
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,720
like if if raining in this area,
put a post out about selling my 

781
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:22,960
umbrellas and things like let's 
just say for example. 

782
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:25,120
So that's where the reasoning 
comes in like it will it will 

783
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,440
firstly check the weather if 
it's not raining, it won't put 

784
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:29,800
any money out into ads That 
where this is a very crude 

785
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:31,960
example but where if it's 
raining someone might see an 

786
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:33,480
advert and go oh, I do need this
thing yeah. 

787
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,640
It it it does all that reasoning
for you and it's built in and 

788
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,520
it's completely insane. 
And something I saw recently 

789
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,360
linked with education, because 
this is something I have predict

790
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:45,360
I have thought would happen for 
a long time and it is happening 

791
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:50,080
now is AI tutors this this idea 
of education because I think we 

792
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:52,400
see education in general is 
quite safe from the AI 

793
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,920
revolution in that whether we 
like it or not we are to a 

794
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,560
certain degree childcare for the
for the society to go out and do

795
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:01,080
work. 
Yeah, children need somewhere to

796
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:02,240
go during. 
Safety in that. 

797
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,000
And it's also in terms of, you 
know, education and school. 

798
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,520
I'm not trying to diminish the 
job we do in terms of education,

799
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,040
but I think it would be quite 
daft for us to pretend that 

800
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,760
we're not also serving the 
purpose of looking after 

801
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:14,240
children in our society so it 
can function. 

802
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:16,400
Yeah, so. 
So that's always where I think 

803
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,120
we've got kind of a safe 
safeness to our job because 

804
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:20,640
children always need somewhere 
to go. 

805
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:25,560
However, the actual idea of 
tutoring to me, having seen this

806
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:28,560
video of an AI bot talking to a 
child and responding and 

807
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,920
teaching them something, picking
up misconceptions, giving them 

808
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,800
more, more, more questions of 
what they need to practise and 

809
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,600
stuff that is real. 
That that when people say, oh, 

810
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,320
you can never really build a 
bond with a child or oh, you can

811
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,920
never really understand the 
misconceptions of a child, yes, 

812
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:44,680
you could. 
Because we are at the point now 

813
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,800
where it is getting so close to 
what a human brain does in terms

814
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,880
of reasoning and problem solving
that you need to just see that 

815
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,920
video search AI Tutor now and 
see it happen in real time with 

816
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,320
children. 
It is incredibly good. 

817
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:57,160
Yeah. 
And is it perfect? 

818
00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,840
No, But I tell you what, it will
get good extremely quickly. 

819
00:31:59,960 --> 00:32:01,360
The trajectory of AI is, is 
crazy. 

820
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:03,440
And the last thing I guess I'll 
mention on it is you probably 

821
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,600
notice if you're on social media
a lot, you'll notice that 

822
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:07,200
there's a lot of AI video 
generation now. 

823
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,480
So we kind of had the whole 
image generation revolution like

824
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:11,560
not even a year ago. 
That's how fast this is 

825
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:13,360
developing, right? 
And they just were bad. 

826
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:13,960
Weren't they? 
Yeah, they were. 

827
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:15,400
They were terrible at 1st, and 
so was video. 

828
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:16,800
A couple of years ago it was 
laughable. 

829
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,240
And even honestly, six months 
ago, AI video was laughable. 

830
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:21,680
It's at the point now where it's
basically indistinguishable from

831
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:23,320
real life. 
It's completely insanely good. 

832
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,040
It has audio built in as as 
well. 

833
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,800
So you've got voices, you've got
music, soundtracks and visuals 

834
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,480
now completely being generated 
from written prompts, have AI to

835
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:32,440
the point where I've even seen, 
I haven't told you this before, 

836
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:35,320
but I've even seen now people 
are developing apps for just 

837
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:37,720
making podcasts and you 
basically just say what I want 

838
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:39,600
the podcast to be, what I want 
the host to look like, what I 

839
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:41,800
want them to talk about the 
length, press the button, there 

840
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:43,120
you go. 
Just generates that and that's 

841
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:43,640
what we are. 
Yeah. 

842
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:46,160
Can you can you generate one 
about writing moderation that 

843
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:49,480
leads nicely into writing about 
AI and where AI is self kind of 

844
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,400
looking at itself and and just 
assessing where it's going? 

845
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:54,600
To go in the future and you can.
And we we laugh. 

846
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:56,600
Honestly, we could make one 
that's probably relatively 

847
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:58,040
indistinguishable from what 
we're producing. 

848
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:00,200
Yeah, 100%. 
I know you heard of the podcast 

849
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,400
Diver CEO Stephen Bartlett. 
He he said he's got to the point

850
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:07,720
now where he's created like a, a
sister parallel podcast where 

851
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:09,200
his own voice has been trained 
on it. 

852
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:14,840
So it's him speaking which gets 
as much click through and user 

853
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,960
retention for an episode as his 
actual one does. 

854
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,080
Wow. 
So, so the, the, the, the, it's 

855
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:21,160
already there. 
It already exists. 

856
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:23,680
It's just so you know, it's, 
it's not like, oh, you click on 

857
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:24,720
it. 
This is a fun gimmick. 

858
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:26,920
Oh, I'm listening for for two 
minutes and I'll click off it. 

859
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:30,200
He's getting the same retention 
rate on episodes because it's 

860
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:31,280
indistinguishable. 
Yeah. 

861
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,760
So I guess my wider point here 
about AI is, look, this is 

862
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:36,880
happening. 
We we can have this discussion 

863
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,400
about whether it's safe, where 
you can have this discussion 

864
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:41,120
about whether it's good for the 
environment that we'll come on 

865
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:42,280
to later on. 
We can have we can have all 

866
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,240
these discussions and that's 
lovely and it's fantastic. 

867
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:46,640
But it's happening whether you 
like it. 

868
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:48,480
Or not. 
Oh yes, it's already way too far

869
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:49,120
gone. 
It's too far. 

870
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:50,440
It's there. 
It's basically a race. 

871
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,360
It's like the best way I sort of
described was by Sam Altman who 

872
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:56,600
made Open AI which made chat and
he was saying it was like a bit 

873
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:58,400
like the moon race. 
Firstly, it's just it's just 

874
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:00,560
happening and the and it's not 
the race to the moon now, it's 

875
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:02,680
race to super intelligence. 
He was like, I will be the first

876
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:04,080
person to create super 
intelligence. 

877
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:06,480
I will make an AI that's clever 
than all human beings put 

878
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,480
together. 
And the current trajectory of 

879
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:09,719
that is within five years. 
Yeah. 

880
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:11,679
So it is like. 
I think I think the scales are 

881
00:34:11,679 --> 00:34:13,120
low. 
It is mad and that scale has 

882
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:14,920
gone down, down, down. 
You know, three years ago people

883
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:18,920
were like, oh, by 2050, by 2029,
probably realistically we'll 

884
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:22,400
have probably have a super 
intelligent AI that can just do 

885
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:24,719
absolutely everything and think 
like us and utilise. 

886
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:26,920
I just think it's it's what will
happen. 

887
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:29,280
I just do. 
So let's let's reframe this in 

888
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,960
terms of education now. 
Yeah, because OK, again, we can 

889
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,040
have these long term discussions
about where I was going. 

890
00:34:34,159 --> 00:34:36,400
Let's park that for a minute. 
Make existential thread. 

891
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,159
Yeah, over there. 
I'm just going to put it into my

892
00:34:39,159 --> 00:34:41,239
nice little packet and just 
ignore that for a second. 

893
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:42,480
We'll come back to that later 
on. 

894
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:46,320
But in, in terms of AI for 
education, there are lots of 

895
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:48,480
good use cases. 
There are lots of fantastic ways

896
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,520
we can use AI to help. 
And I think the traditional way 

897
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:54,600
of they're called LLM you, you 
mentioned earlier large language

898
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:56,679
models, which is what ChatGPT 
essentially is. 

899
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,440
It has access to the entirety of
the Internet, which is huge. 

900
00:34:59,720 --> 00:35:02,880
And then based on what you put 
it predicts what a good response

901
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,200
would be essentially, and it's 
very good at doing that. 

902
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:07,880
So you can create texts very 
quickly. 

903
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:10,640
You know, I've created diary 
entries, I've created newspaper 

904
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:14,040
reports, I've created setting 
descriptions, and they can all 

905
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:17,480
do that based on prompts that I 
give them and create texts that 

906
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:20,440
my children can use. 
And I can edit myself and even 

907
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,400
some questions, have some 
retrieval questions, have some 

908
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:26,520
inference questions, find the 
five trickiest words in here and

909
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:28,840
do some word meaning questions 
in this style, etcetera. 

910
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:30,960
It's really, really good at 
that. 

911
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:34,080
And I think in general, a lot of
people kind of understand that 

912
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:36,680
and. 
Why that can be useful reports, 

913
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:37,920
we'll come into more detail in a
second. 

914
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,440
Then we'll try and try and 
explain to you guys how you can 

915
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:41,640
actually use that to help your 
reports. 

916
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:44,080
But what, what else can AI do at
the minute? 

917
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:46,640
Well, firstly, I just do a 
little bit more on the text 

918
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:48,600
thing, right? 
One really good thing to 

919
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:51,520
understand is even when you're 
generating text, it's so much 

920
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,320
better now than it was even a 
year ago when we talked about 

921
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:54,800
this. 
You can really, really tailor 

922
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,280
the style of it as well. 
Like if you wanted to write it 

923
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,440
with a particular flow or like 
look a particular way with its 

924
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:02,520
grammar and punctuation, you can
really just prompt it to do that

925
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:04,080
now. 
So don't, don't assume that, oh,

926
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,720
everything looks like AI. 
It kind of does unless you give 

927
00:36:06,720 --> 00:36:09,080
it a bit more prompting to, to 
do to create the text exactly 

928
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:10,240
how you want. 
So you think, I think that's a 

929
00:36:10,240 --> 00:36:11,320
good point. 
It's as good as the prompt, 

930
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:12,200
isn't it? 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

931
00:36:12,240 --> 00:36:14,200
And again, we're going to kind 
of crossover with that when we 

932
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,160
talk about reports again, but 
that's one thing. 

933
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,320
But you can also, I mean, word 
banks are another great one just

934
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:19,560
for text. 
I use it all the time for word 

935
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:21,240
banks, especially on the spot 
where I've not thought about 

936
00:36:21,240 --> 00:36:22,120
something. 
I'm like, oh, do you know what? 

937
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:24,960
The kids really just, they keep 
asking me, what's another word 

938
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:25,760
for this? 
Sure. 

939
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:28,080
And I'm like, sometimes I want 
to say I go and get a 

940
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:30,400
dictionary, but you know what? 
In the modern day, honestly, 

941
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:33,360
honestly, it's a waste of time. 
I'd rather I'd rather they had 

942
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:34,400
they don't because there's no 
money. 

943
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:36,720
I'd rather they had a little, 
little little app with them 

944
00:36:36,720 --> 00:36:38,680
where they can just Google it or
synonyms for this word. 

945
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:39,920
You know what? 
That's what I'd do in real life.

946
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:42,080
So what it often ends up 
happening in the middle ground 

947
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:45,160
here is I'll very quickly whip 
up a a word Bank of things that 

948
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:46,960
were suitable for that genre, 
including what they want. 

949
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:48,400
And then be like, OK, right, 
We've got a word bank here, 

950
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:49,680
guys. 
If you're really stuck for words

951
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:52,280
for said look, here's 20 more or
you know, rather than asking me 

952
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,360
every single time, just stuff 
like that is really good, but 

953
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:56,400
also image generation. 
I know you used it, you've 

954
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:58,480
mentioned it on the pod before. 
How you you got their 

955
00:36:58,480 --> 00:36:59,320
descriptions? 
So. 

956
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:00,440
Engaging. 
Into it, right? 

957
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:02,440
Like image generation is 
insanely good. 

958
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,480
Now you'll do honestly, anything
you write it to do, it'll be. 

959
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:07,560
It'll be pretty good at it. 
I used it the other day. 

960
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:09,200
We know literally recently we 
did. 

961
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:11,240
We did a setting. 
We've been reading Narnia, and 

962
00:37:11,240 --> 00:37:13,120
we did a setting description. 
I can't remember if I mentioned 

963
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:15,920
this in the podcast or not, but 
essentially we did some writing 

964
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:19,080
where we took the kind of 
structure of Narnia in terms of 

965
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:23,120
a child walking through a 
portal, which wardrobe is. 

966
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:25,920
So we took it as, OK, look, 
we're going to do it writing. 

967
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:28,120
You are yourself. 
You're writing a diary entry of 

968
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:32,200
your day and it started off of 
you walking through whatever you

969
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:33,880
want to walk through. 
Some children chose a Bush. 

970
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:35,320
That one child had a really good
idea. 

971
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:37,560
They were playing football. 
The football got kicked into the

972
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:39,360
Bush. 
They went through the Bush to 

973
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:41,440
find football, but they kept 
going and kept going and then 

974
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:43,120
eventually got the ball, but 
they were in a desert. 

975
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:45,160
Landscape. 
So you can change the landscape 

976
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:47,440
at the end, you can change how 
what what door you go through. 

977
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:48,680
You can change how you got 
there. 

978
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:50,800
You can change whether you were 
your siblings or your friends, 

979
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:51,960
how you felt about the 
experience. 

980
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:54,480
Exactly that. 
But what ChatGPT did amazingly 

981
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,160
well then was I said you need to
be really vivid with your 

982
00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:59,640
descriptions. 
Then it gave them that purpose 

983
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:03,440
because I said I'm going to feed
this into the AI for it to 

984
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:07,840
create a picture for you and it 
will only go off your prompt. 

985
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:11,320
So if you're vague, it will give
you something that you're 

986
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:13,760
probably not imagining in your. 
Head, you've got to be clear if 

987
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:15,200
you're. 
Specific and clearer and use the

988
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,520
right language, the better the 
picture will be. 

989
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:19,520
I've never seen. 
So much description. 

990
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,280
And then I picked about two or 
three of what I deemed the 

991
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:26,160
children who tried to do that 
the most, whacked it into AI and

992
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:29,280
it made these images. 
And it was 1 was stepping 

993
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:31,600
through, 1 was stepping through 
the Bush. 

994
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:35,200
Like I mentioned, 1 was like the
door of a rocket, Right. 

995
00:38:35,240 --> 00:38:36,960
So like, they go, they go into a
rocket. 

996
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:38,880
They, they go on their journey, 
they step out. 

997
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:40,880
Yeah, they're in a new land. 
You could have travelled there, 

998
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,080
but it's the idea of you're 
still stepping through into this

999
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:43,960
new land. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

1000
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:45,760
And AI did that and it was in 
space. 

1001
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:50,280
And this other, this other boy 
I've net, it's a classic boy 

1002
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:52,920
where you think it's, it can be 
like drawing blood out of a 

1003
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:54,840
stone, trying lots of 
description in their writing 

1004
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:57,760
because he's just not bothered. 
And it's fine that he's not 

1005
00:38:57,760 --> 00:38:59,520
bothered because he's 8. 
And why would he care about this

1006
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:01,000
thing? 
He's got something else he wants

1007
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:03,360
to think about. 
But as soon as he realised that 

1008
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:06,720
it was going to be created into 
an actual picture based on his 

1009
00:39:06,720 --> 00:39:09,720
words and his words would come 
to life immediately as well. 

1010
00:39:09,720 --> 00:39:13,280
Immediately that that was enough
for him to be like, I want to be

1011
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:15,080
picked, I'm gonna do this. 
So I chose him at the end. 

1012
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:17,680
And his whole idea was the world
was upside down. 

1013
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:21,560
He stepped into an upside with 
trees growing down and what was 

1014
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:23,880
really amazing, he thought of 
all this himself in his world. 

1015
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:26,360
The rain went up okay, because 
obviously it's upside down. 

1016
00:39:26,720 --> 00:39:28,960
So there was rain going up from 
the floor, down from the trees. 

1017
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,360
There were some buildings and 
houses. 

1018
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:33,840
He wrote this really interesting
and he said what colour was it 

1019
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:37,840
was dark and gloomy and purpley 
and, and it made it and his like

1020
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:40,520
his face lit up. 
And that's to me, that's the 

1021
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:42,960
power of this kind of thing 
where it can give purpose to 

1022
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,960
some children who didn't have it
before where me saying, oh guys,

1023
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:47,960
it's for imagination isn't that 
great? 

1024
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:49,520
And and you the words can come 
to life. 

1025
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:52,640
For some kids that's not enough.
They don't have that ability to 

1026
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,960
imagine that kind of thing. 
But when the when the computer 

1027
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:59,440
can make it in 1.5 seconds. 
Yeah, I got better writing out 

1028
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:01,040
of this child and there's so 
much potential after that. 

1029
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:03,120
You can do all sorts of things 
that say it doesn't generate 

1030
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:05,080
what they want. 
OK, Analyse that picture. 

1031
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:07,160
What's it missing? 
Where can you edit that in your 

1032
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:08,520
writing? 
Go back what is clearly you've 

1033
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:10,120
got something in your head that 
you've not described clearly. 

1034
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:11,080
There's so many things you can 
do. 

1035
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:14,320
A really interesting parallel 
came to my mind then when you 

1036
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:16,560
when you were talking about this
and it and it is hilariously a 

1037
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:19,520
parallel because 10 years ago, 
and it wasn't my first year of 

1038
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:20,680
teaching because I've been 
teaching 10 years. 

1039
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:23,520
You've been teaching nine years,
not quite a decade like me, 10 

1040
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:26,720
years ago. 
I also happened to be doing 

1041
00:40:26,720 --> 00:40:30,360
Narnia in a different school. 
And a task that I thought of and

1042
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:31,960
I, and I was really proud of 
this task because I thought this

1043
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:36,680
is really cool was it was a 
scene with Mr Tumnus in, in his,

1044
00:40:36,720 --> 00:40:38,880
in his house. 
And Lucy was there and they were

1045
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:42,560
doing some setting description. 
And I said, I gave them this 

1046
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:44,720
colouring in sheet, which was a 
picture of that. 

1047
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,480
And I said, you're only allowed 
to colour bits in, in the 

1048
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:49,760
picture when you've written it 
into one of your sensors. 

1049
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:52,240
And the, it was very much the 
same concept of what you're 

1050
00:40:52,240 --> 00:40:53,120
doing there. 
I was like it. 

1051
00:40:53,240 --> 00:40:55,000
I was thinking that it's going 
to make them be vivid with their

1052
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:56,760
descriptions because they can't 
colour it in unless they've 

1053
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:58,680
written about it. 
And that was the idea. 

1054
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:01,680
And I just love how what you've 
done is, is the, is the natural 

1055
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:04,000
advancement of that using 
technology to the absolute MTH 

1056
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:05,720
degree because they got instant 
gratification. 

1057
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:07,840
Wildly different pictures. 
Mine were all said they all had 

1058
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:10,120
the exact same colouring engine.
Given the freedom doesn't. 

1059
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:12,000
It they had so much more read 
them, you could immediately 

1060
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:14,000
analyse it and change it, you 
know, and you could retype bits 

1061
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:16,560
in that's yeah, it's so. 
Interesting, what we're 

1062
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:18,320
basically saying is my lesson 
was way better than yours. 

1063
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:20,800
Yeah, but ten years ago I was, 
you know, well ahead of the 

1064
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:22,720
curve, mate. 
I basically invented the idea. 

1065
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:24,880
But you, but that's not even a 
bad lesson because what what 

1066
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:27,280
you're doing there, you're still
teaching children to take things

1067
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:28,760
into account when you're doing a
setting description. 

1068
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:30,400
Don't get me wrong, I think 
that's still a good thing. 

1069
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,960
But yeah, this just unlocked it 
in terms of the the ceiling is 

1070
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:36,720
your imagination. 
The ceiling is your imagination 

1071
00:41:36,720 --> 00:41:38,000
now. 
So the more you're descriptive, 

1072
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:40,000
the more you explain, the more 
it will actually be in 

1073
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:42,480
existence. 
And I just find personally that 

1074
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:47,360
that hook is so powerful for 
writing to inspire children who 

1075
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:49,800
otherwise aren't inspired and 
struggle to make that link 

1076
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:52,400
between what they can imagine 
and what they can write down. 

1077
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:55,800
Yeah, this was like almost a 
bridge between that, where I got

1078
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,280
more interesting. 
Look, did it always make sense? 

1079
00:41:58,280 --> 00:41:59,680
Was it always perfectly 
punctuated? 

1080
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:00,960
That's a separate part of my 
job. 

1081
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:02,520
And that's fine. 
But you know what? 

1082
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:05,520
Realistically, as a teacher, at 
the end of the day, I was so 

1083
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:07,920
excited that he was excited to 
write. 

1084
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:09,400
Yeah. 
Did you make his own world up? 

1085
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:11,040
Yeah, it did. 
It Did they aspire. 

1086
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:12,640
Have to write something yeah, 
exactly. 

1087
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:14,080
Cool. 
Done That's that's like 80% of 

1088
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:15,240
your job done. 
That's it honestly, yeah, 

1089
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:18,000
honestly when you're when you're
14 do you know what if it 

1090
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,760
doesn't click by then then 
you've still got time because 

1091
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:22,280
you've got a brain that's over 
14 year old. 

1092
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:24,360
And I can say to you, by the 
way, guy that needs to have a 

1093
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:26,360
that needs to have a full stop 
there, that needs to have a 

1094
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:28,080
capital ethic, by the way, you'd
probably learn that before 

1095
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:30,000
you're an adult, right? 
And it's like, yeah, sure, it's,

1096
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:31,760
it's OK. 
It's funny. 

1097
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:35,200
We have archaic systems of, of 
grids of what we expect children

1098
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:37,480
to be able to do by their eight.
Forget it. 

1099
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:39,640
I just don't care. 
I'm going to teach them it. 

1100
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:42,200
I'm going to, I'm, I'm, I'm not 
saying let's not do that. 

1101
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:43,800
I'm not saying it's not 
important to teach them because 

1102
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:46,000
other children will pick it up. 
But if some kids still don't 

1103
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:49,560
quite get it after the 57th time
of me saying it, it's OK if they

1104
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:51,960
don't get it the 58th time. 
But you know, what's amazing is 

1105
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:53,400
that child now wants to do some 
writing. 

1106
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:56,400
Win, win, win. 
And that's what I think my job 

1107
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:59,200
is. 
The obsession with metrics has 

1108
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:01,120
really flipped what it's 
supposed to be about. 

1109
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:04,680
The foundation in the culture of
teaching, I think, is the 

1110
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:06,760
foundation is we teach them how 
to do all the grammar, 

1111
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:09,120
punctuation and spelling, and on
top of that they can then write 

1112
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:10,120
lovely things. 
No, it's not. 

1113
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:13,080
The foundation should be where 
kids want to write something 

1114
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:16,560
honestly, just if you've done 
that should be the the absolute 

1115
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:19,280
first that you work on because 
progress is fairly natural for 

1116
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:22,480
most children if they just want 
to do it honestly. 

1117
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:25,560
Like if you, if a kid enjoys 
writing for seven years in a 

1118
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:28,600
row, it's very, very, very 
unlikely. 

1119
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:32,240
And there probably will be 
reasons for it if not that they 

1120
00:43:32,240 --> 00:43:35,320
won't make progress in, in the 
stuff that we think is more 

1121
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:37,200
important than metrics, the 
first stuff we can measure. 

1122
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:39,280
And I think if we had the 
attitude as teachers, we would 

1123
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:42,360
be creating a better generation 
of writers in general. 

1124
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:44,680
They might just not get some of 
the stuff as early as we think. 

1125
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:46,440
Oh no. 
But they like writing still when

1126
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:49,280
they're 15, so. 
As early as we've arbitrarily 

1127
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:52,760
decided they need to like who, 
who actually decided that 8 year

1128
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:54,960
olds need to use frontal verbals
in their text free like 

1129
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:56,240
frequently and different 
phrases? 

1130
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:58,720
Like so it's not objective. 
Is it Yeah. 

1131
00:43:58,720 --> 00:44:00,360
It's not objective that they put
the comma there or not. 

1132
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:03,880
I, you know what really, I don't
really care too much. 

1133
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:07,200
And the great thing about AI and
other use of, of it in school is

1134
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:09,920
it is getting better at doing 
that anyway for teachers that it

1135
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:12,440
can be, it can become an 
analysing tool. 

1136
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:16,000
You can upload a picture of 
something that someone's written

1137
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:18,800
and you can ask it to based on 
the year 4 curriculum. 

1138
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:21,800
Can you please give me some pros
and cons for this piece of 

1139
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:23,680
writing, Some strengths and some
weaknesses or some next steps, 

1140
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:26,240
etcetera. 
And it will be able to very 

1141
00:44:26,240 --> 00:44:28,440
quickly say, oh, we're using 
sentences that makes sense. 

1142
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:30,960
That's awesome. 
There are some fronted clauses 

1143
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:33,240
in there for maybe their 
prepositions, maybe adverbs or 

1144
00:44:33,240 --> 00:44:36,360
some whatever is going on. 
The the child isn't always clear

1145
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:38,120
of their writing, their 
descendants, Those aren't going 

1146
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:40,480
down very far. 
And also sometimes it just 

1147
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:42,200
doesn't quite make sense at the 
end when they're trying to use 

1148
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:44,400
conjunctions. 
Yeah. 

1149
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:46,360
OK, look, I can do that as an 
experienced teacher quite 

1150
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:47,760
quickly. 
But if you're learning your 

1151
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:50,520
trade, this is an amazing tool 
to have next year as a teacher. 

1152
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:52,840
Or even if you're more. 
Experienced, experienced, it's 

1153
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:55,440
just another pair of eyes. 
I wouldn't say no to look at 

1154
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:57,400
myself and like, no, I can do 
it, Dylan, I can do it. 

1155
00:44:57,400 --> 00:44:59,320
But if you were offering to help
me like analyse looking through 

1156
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:00,800
some work and I'd be like, yeah,
cool, cheers. 

1157
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:04,800
Moderation, Why wouldn't I? 
What moderation is AI is going 

1158
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:07,520
to be, and I'm saying this now 
on the podcast because I think 

1159
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:09,600
in two years time when we're 
still doing this podcast, 

1160
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:11,960
hopefully we'll look back and be
like, yeah, we were right. 

1161
00:45:12,240 --> 00:45:15,640
AI is going to absolutely 
transform the world in the next 

1162
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:17,040
three years. 
It's really interesting because 

1163
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:18,840
that's what I've told you for a 
year and you've told me no until

1164
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:20,200
now. 
And now you've stolen my 

1165
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:22,640
prediction. 
So it was my, you heard it here 

1166
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:24,320
first from me. 
You heard it here first. 

1167
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:27,440
Hayden from TCP, not Deeden, 
that we talked about said that 

1168
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:28,440
AI is going to transform the 
world. 

1169
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:29,760
But it really is. 
And you're absolutely right. 

1170
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:31,360
Like I thought the trajectory 
was much slower. 

1171
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:34,440
And I've only changed my mind 
honestly in the last like two or

1172
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:36,880
three months where I've seen 
what AI was doing at the 

1173
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:39,800
exponential growth rate. 
And I'm like, this is, this is 

1174
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:41,960
actually mad because we weren't 
a year ago, we weren't supposed 

1175
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:44,680
to be doing these things. 
And by this time it's it's just 

1176
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:46,840
completely crazy. 
I think, yeah, in general, 

1177
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:47,960
there's always going to be some 
gimmicks. 

1178
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:51,440
Like we said, we went to bet, 
you know, 90% of the businesses 

1179
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:53,200
there had AI in the name and 
stuff. 

1180
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:55,720
There's some, don't get me 
wrong, there's some cool stuff 

1181
00:45:55,720 --> 00:45:57,040
out there. 
I think there's going to be a 

1182
00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:00,000
split between what we can use 
almost on a daily basis, which 

1183
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:02,200
is really having a massive 
impact on the children. 

1184
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:04,280
Yeah. 
And I, I, I feel rude calling 

1185
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:06,760
them gimmicks, but they kind of 
are gimmicky to a degree because

1186
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:08,640
they have such a limited use 
niche tools. 

1187
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:10,160
Yeah. 
Like, you know, making up, 

1188
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:12,920
inventing songs. 
I think that's, that's an 

1189
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:14,960
amazing technology to be able to
create a song. 

1190
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:16,800
But in, in a school, I'll use 
that. 

1191
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:19,200
Sometimes I'll make a song. 
I've, I've spoke about this 

1192
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:21,960
before, I made a song before 
about the water cycle because 

1193
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:23,600
that's something tricky to 
remember. 

1194
00:46:23,720 --> 00:46:25,120
It's another hook for some 
children. 

1195
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:27,680
They might remember the song, 
remember the Jingle, the words 

1196
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:29,360
are embedded. 
We use the vocab, we do some 

1197
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:30,000
signs. 
Yeah. 

1198
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:32,280
That's just pedagogy to me. 
And I think there's, there's 

1199
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:34,360
always going to be those kind of
tools where we think as a 

1200
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:37,800
teacher, that's helpful for me 
to teach this just like I used 

1201
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:39,080
to. 
Maybe going to YouTube and find 

1202
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:40,200
a water cycle. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

1203
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:42,560
But I would spend ages trying to
find the right one and maybe I'd

1204
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:44,600
pause it at one minute 47 
because then it goes into 

1205
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:45,680
something that's irrelevant. 
Yeah. 

1206
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:48,280
With this kind of AI tool, it 
could be bespoke to you. 

1207
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:49,800
You can create it straight away 
again. 

1208
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:51,880
You know, this, this is less 
gimmicky, I guess, but in terms 

1209
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:53,640
of just on the idea of like, 
they're just going to be more 

1210
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:55,440
and more and more tools and 
tools and tools and tools and 

1211
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:57,400
tools as AI gets better. 
And people just put wrappers 

1212
00:46:57,400 --> 00:46:59,120
around them and say, here's a 
really good tool we've packaged 

1213
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:00,960
up from it. 
I saw something the other day 

1214
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:02,640
and I can't think of the name of
it, annoyingly, because it was 

1215
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:04,600
just sort of on my Instagram and
I and I watched the video and it

1216
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:07,080
was insanely good at making 
PowerPoints. 

1217
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:09,240
And I was like, I know that's 
been around for a little while. 

1218
00:47:09,240 --> 00:47:10,680
AI has kind of been involved in 
like helping you make 

1219
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:12,320
PowerPoints, but this was like 
next level. 

1220
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:15,960
It was basically just put in one
text prompt and it will use the 

1221
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:18,360
powers of the Internet and its 
image and video creation to make

1222
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:20,960
the most insanely good 
PowerPoint presentation at 

1223
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:23,360
whatever level you want it for 
either a lesson or for like a 

1224
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:27,080
business meeting, whatever it is
insanely good engaging 

1225
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:28,720
PowerPoint presentation on that 
thing. 

1226
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:30,440
And I was like, do you know 
what? 

1227
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:32,760
There are some teachers. 
There are a lot of schools still

1228
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:35,560
where maybe their schemes of 
learning are not in place or 

1229
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:38,760
they change them every year 
because they're toxic or, you 

1230
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:40,760
know, for whatever reason, 
teachers are having to still 

1231
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:43,320
generate stuff that's been in 
the career for 10 years. 

1232
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:44,640
It's been the same objective for
10 years. 

1233
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:46,880
We're still having to, for some 
reason, generate new PowerPoints

1234
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:48,320
for it. 
And I was like that would be a 

1235
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:50,400
useful tool for them because 
that will do that in 20 seconds.

1236
00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:52,560
Can you put the school logo in 
the corner please? 

1237
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:54,160
And can you change the font to 
Sansferi? 

1238
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:56,360
Serif, the AI has been trained 
to say no. 

1239
00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:57,680
Actually. 
That's so ridiculous even I 

1240
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:00,400
won't do it. 
You have to take yourself anyway

1241
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:02,440
yourself. 
Yeah, the AI knows how stupid 

1242
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:03,200
that is. 
Right. 

1243
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:05,200
So in general, obviously it's 
good use for AI. 

1244
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:07,920
We talked about our existential 
dread about where the whole 

1245
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:08,800
planet's going. 
So that's. 

1246
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:10,000
Been fun and the episode's over,
no? 

1247
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:13,080
No, no, no, because now we're 
going to talk about specifically

1248
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:15,400
for writing reports, because 
Hayden and I have used AI to 

1249
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:17,440
help us write reports. 
This will be the third year I 

1250
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:19,920
think you've used it. 
I think it's getting better and 

1251
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:22,840
better, but we still have many, 
many colleagues out there. 

1252
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:25,120
And we'll talk about some of the
attracting statements later, 

1253
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:27,760
maybe about why people argue 
against doing this and why we 

1254
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:30,760
think it's OK. 
But in general, Hayden, can you 

1255
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:35,760
just outline what does someone 
have to do in order to save time

1256
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:39,080
right in their reports using AI?
What do you even do? 

1257
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:40,720
What are the options? 
What does it look like? 

1258
00:48:40,720 --> 00:48:42,760
OK, I'll start about 400 
questions. 

1259
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:44,840
I'll start with the options. 
Firstly, there's there's free 

1260
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:47,520
and there's paid options. 
By free I mean ChatGPT or any 

1261
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:50,080
other large language model. 
I only use ChatGPT as anyone I 

1262
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:52,080
can recommend, right? 
There are other paid services 

1263
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:54,520
out there. 
I know that I see Mr P's got his

1264
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:56,800
teach my AI. 
I know there's another friend of

1265
00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:58,480
ours has made something called 
Rocket AI and there's probably 

1266
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:00,520
other companies things out there
as well that do the same sort of

1267
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:01,640
thing. 
Really what they're doing is 

1268
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:03,840
they're putting a wrapper around
different language models with 

1269
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:05,600
lots of other other restrictions
and things in place. 

1270
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:07,640
I'm not going to pretend I know 
exactly how they do it and 

1271
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:10,320
scaffolds scaffolds, but they 
are essentially utilising large 

1272
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:12,640
language models and just 
packaging it up to be a slightly

1273
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:14,360
more easier. 
I've used these models before 

1274
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:15,760
and they are really good because
you know what they do? 

1275
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:17,440
They package it up and make it 
really easy. 

1276
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:20,440
I can put the kids name in, I 
can put this what, what year 

1277
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:21,840
group they're in, what I want it
to be about. 

1278
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:24,040
I can put the formality, I can 
bullet point some things in 

1279
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:25,640
there and it generates me a 
lovely comment. 

1280
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:28,320
You can also do this on ChatGPT 
if you get your prompts right. 

1281
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:31,120
So and. 
ChatGPT has a free account 

1282
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:33,160
option right? 
You can pay for ChatGPT and it 

1283
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:35,680
like it boosts how many models 
you can get or how quick that 

1284
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:38,080
you get stuff. 
But you can just sign up for 

1285
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:39,840
free to ChatGPT and get it to 
do. 

1286
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:41,560
This yeah, you can and and I 
wouldn't be surprised if you 

1287
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:43,520
know if you're listening to this
in a few months time or a year, 

1288
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:46,400
I wouldn't be surprised if this 
information isn't perfectly 

1289
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:48,680
accurate because I know that 
they are as they monetize it 

1290
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:50,240
more and as more people use it 
that putting in more 

1291
00:49:50,240 --> 00:49:52,680
restrictions for the free users.
They'd be like, oh, you've used 

1292
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:54,880
up your, you get to wait 10 
minutes now to do another 

1293
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:56,360
prompt. 
So like, don't you know, quote 

1294
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:58,000
me exactly on that because that 
might change. 

1295
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:00,520
But we've used the paid, paid 
version before and it was, it 

1296
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:01,640
was, it was very quick. 
Yeah. 

1297
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:05,200
Anyway, so should we talk about 
how to prompt now? 

1298
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:06,640
Should we talk? 
About that, sure, because a lot 

1299
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:08,920
of people, again, you know, I've
comment, I've done memes and 

1300
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:13,800
stuff about I did one me which 
said me, ChatGPT and I having a 

1301
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:16,120
dance after we finished our 
reports and it's just me and 

1302
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:18,480
it's like it's a person and a 
robot just doing a dance. 

1303
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:21,960
Like what do you mean dancing? 
And you know, a lot of people go

1304
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:24,120
haha, yeah, me too, ChatGPT is 
with my mate, etcetera. 

1305
00:50:24,240 --> 00:50:27,200
But we still get comments from 
people saying how do I do this? 

1306
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:29,760
Yeah. 
OK so here's my recommendation 

1307
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:31,800
because this is what I did this 
year and this is the first time 

1308
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:33,760
I've done it this way by the way
and I thought it was extremely 

1309
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:35,520
effective. 
And just for context to get you 

1310
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:38,880
excited, I did my reports in 
under 2 hours this year and I'd 

1311
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:41,720
say they are by far the best 
reports I've ever I will ever 

1312
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:45,440
deliver to parents and children.
One of the reasons is AI, as 

1313
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:48,360
we've said very clearly, it is 
getting insanely better. 

1314
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:51,120
Like by the year. 
If you had a year ago 

1315
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:54,200
experienced AI and thought now 
this isn't for me, this isn't 

1316
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:56,480
quite how I want it. 
Honestly, wipe that, give it 

1317
00:50:56,480 --> 00:51:00,000
another go because it is tenfold
better now that doing its job. 

1318
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:01,440
So how so? 
How do we do it? 

1319
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:03,800
So how do we do it? 
So I did like this. 

1320
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:06,160
I had AI used the Word document,
right, because you want to know 

1321
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:08,560
you can, you can just drag word 
documents into ChatGPT and or 

1322
00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:10,440
just read the text on that. 
You don't have to type directly 

1323
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:12,920
into it. 
I, I put a made a Word document 

1324
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:15,400
and I made a table in it. 
And on the left hand side, I 

1325
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:17,320
just listed the kids as ABCDEFG,
right. 

1326
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:19,120
So we're not going to be Oh, I 
didn't want to use names for 

1327
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:21,040
obvious GDPR reasons. 
I'm not going to get into it. 

1328
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:22,800
So don't use names. 
I just put ABCD. 

1329
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:24,800
I know who they are because it's
just my, it's just my class 

1330
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:26,720
register in order. 
So I know B is the second kid on

1331
00:51:26,720 --> 00:51:29,720
my register and then I put 2 
columns to the right of it and 

1332
00:51:29,720 --> 00:51:33,560
you can simplify it or 
complexify it as much as you 

1333
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:35,560
want. 
My first column was general 

1334
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:39,320
notes and I just bullet pointed 
anything that came to mind based

1335
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:42,440
on I know you did this as well, 
based on like a little thing. 

1336
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:43,880
I Yeah. 
Let's talk about that. 

1337
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:44,720
Yeah, we'll talk about. 
In a second. 

1338
00:51:44,720 --> 00:51:46,520
So yeah, you've done your 
generic points, done my points. 

1339
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:48,480
And on the right hand side I put
specific points as well. 

1340
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:50,960
I put like actual like anecdotes
from the year that I would, I 

1341
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:52,080
would want to mention in the 
report. 

1342
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:53,160
Not everyone got something in 
that. 

1343
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:54,880
It depends if there was 
something that came to mind. 

1344
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:57,960
I dragged that into ChatGPT and 
I just wrote a prompt of it that

1345
00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:01,440
set the parameters and it was 
along the lines of it's there 

1346
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:04,040
for end of year 6 reports in the
UKI want the word count to be 

1347
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:06,600
around 180 words. 
I want, I want it to be 

1348
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:08,320
informal, but with a 
professional tone. 

1349
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:09,560
You went informal? 
Yeah. 

1350
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:11,960
I, I find when you say informal,
the professional tone, it 

1351
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:13,120
actually comes out way better 
when you. 

1352
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:13,960
But it's formal. 
Yeah. 

1353
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:15,680
It's still formal because it's 
because it understands 

1354
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:18,240
professional, but it keeps it in
a tone where I would write, 

1355
00:52:18,240 --> 00:52:18,760
Yeah. 
Because. 

1356
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:20,880
Because reports have to be 
professional still. 

1357
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:22,600
Yeah, but you want your voice to
come through. 

1358
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:24,080
Yeah, exactly. 
So I found that as a little 

1359
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:26,000
cheat there, rather than putting
formal, I put informal, the 

1360
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:27,120
professional tone. 
Brilliant. 

1361
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:29,920
A lot of other parameters of 
exactly what I want, you know, 

1362
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:31,840
if I want to split into two 
paragraphs, say split into two 

1363
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:35,640
paragraphs, if I said keep it 
really positive, I want it to, 

1364
00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:38,240
you know, I want it to be 
friendly and approach well and 

1365
00:52:38,240 --> 00:52:39,720
that's it. 
Honestly, it's clever enough at 

1366
00:52:39,720 --> 00:52:41,720
that point where it's like it 
knows what year, it knows 

1367
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:44,280
honestly what end of year 6 
reports are supposed to look 

1368
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:45,280
like. 
For whatever reason. 

1369
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:47,640
It is good at that now. 
It was right in things like, you

1370
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:50,320
know, like referencing secondary
school. 

1371
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:51,720
I didn't tell it that we weren't
a free school. 

1372
00:52:51,720 --> 00:52:54,240
It just knows that probably the 
chances are if it's a year 6, 

1373
00:52:54,240 --> 00:52:55,720
they're going to be going to a 
secondary school next. 

1374
00:52:55,720 --> 00:52:58,480
Year if you do all of it, like 
you said, you you've done all of

1375
00:52:58,480 --> 00:52:59,880
that. 
Maybe we'll come some push backs

1376
00:52:59,880 --> 00:53:02,520
in a second about it and and 
things you can do to, you know, 

1377
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:04,160
streamline it. 
You've done all that, but you're

1378
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:06,680
still not happy with it. 
What would what would you say to

1379
00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:08,120
someone? 
Because you spent a lot of time 

1380
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:10,240
making that table and I can 
imagine if people didn't get 

1381
00:53:10,240 --> 00:53:11,720
what they want straight away 
them I think what a waste of 

1382
00:53:11,720 --> 00:53:13,440
time this is. 
This is silly and one of the 

1383
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:15,680
push backs I see is it takes 
just as long as me writing it 

1384
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:17,040
myself. 
What? 

1385
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:19,040
What would be your pushback to 
someone who says that? 

1386
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:21,480
You're a teacher market. 
Yeah, honestly, give it 

1387
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:22,800
feedback. 
Just give it feedback. 

1388
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:25,280
Child B didn't really capture 
this part of their their 

1389
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:27,160
personality. 
Can you hone in on that and just

1390
00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:28,760
do a little bit less of this? 
Okay, thanks. 

1391
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:30,400
I'll I'll regenerate child B for
you. 

1392
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:32,800
And but even in general, if it's
not doing what you want in 

1393
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:35,520
general, like to say they're too
long or it's not quite as 

1394
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:38,120
formal, just train it right. 
Yeah. 

1395
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:39,240
Oh, yeah, yeah. 
That's, that's what you're 

1396
00:53:39,240 --> 00:53:39,920
getting at. 
Absolutely. 

1397
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:40,640
Right. 
You can put in. 

1398
00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:42,400
I actually did this. 
I probably should have mentioned

1399
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:43,880
it. 
I actually fed it a few examples

1400
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:47,360
of my own personal handwritten, 
handwritten but typed reports 

1401
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:50,000
and said this is my tone. 
This is my style of writing. 

1402
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:51,560
Use it to help you. 
And it did. 

1403
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:53,280
Yeah. 
It was so good at doing that. 

1404
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:54,200
There's loads of things you can 
do. 

1405
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:56,400
And at the end of the day, you 
can always manually edit as 

1406
00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:57,960
well. 
Were there a few that I still 

1407
00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:00,280
just took a sentence out and 
replaced it because I was like, 

1408
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:03,000
I just, it be quicker for me to 
just rewrite that sentence than 

1409
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:05,480
it will be to reprompt it? 
Yeah, Just use your common sense

1410
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:06,720
at that point. 
And it was quick. 

1411
00:54:06,720 --> 00:54:08,640
I did them all in under a couple
of hours. 

1412
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:12,640
And they were so precisely, 
exactly what I wanted to say. 

1413
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:14,440
Yeah. 
And I was almost like I. 

1414
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:17,080
I, I couldn't have written these
more personalised and better 

1415
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:18,960
myself. 
This is just what I'm thinking, 

1416
00:54:19,240 --> 00:54:21,800
but written perfectly well. 
This is the issue I've always 

1417
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:24,840
found with writing reports is 
that by far the biggest amount 

1418
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:28,240
of brain power goes on to 
formulating how the paragraph 

1419
00:54:28,240 --> 00:54:30,160
will be laid out and the 
structure and making sure it 

1420
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:32,560
flows and it's written at a 
certain formality, etcetera. 

1421
00:54:32,720 --> 00:54:34,480
And doesn't just sound the same 
every single time. 

1422
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:37,080
Because what ended up happening 
before was Oh my God, by the 

1423
00:54:37,080 --> 00:54:39,480
end, I'm I'm copying and pasting
changing names, right? 

1424
00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:42,280
And that is the least personal 
you can possibly go, whereas 

1425
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:44,200
this, the computer does it for 
you. 

1426
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:45,880
It means immediately, and I want
to touch on what you said a 

1427
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:48,760
minute ago because I know for a 
fact I've spoken about AI with 

1428
00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:51,240
other teachers and they've said 
it takes me just as long to do 

1429
00:54:51,240 --> 00:54:52,960
those bullet points because 
we've said you just use bullet 

1430
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:54,760
points. 
Yeah, write down the headline 

1431
00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:57,280
things that you think for each 
child and the people going oh, 

1432
00:54:57,280 --> 00:54:59,520
but that just takes me just as 
long to think of and and maybe 

1433
00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:01,680
I'll miss something, but also 
like it takes me ages just to 

1434
00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:03,800
write it. 
There's a way around it. 

1435
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:07,560
You've spoken about something we
both do, which is before you do 

1436
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:10,240
anything, before you do anything
at all, it take any notes for 

1437
00:55:10,240 --> 00:55:12,960
any children, write down, write 
down. 

1438
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:15,280
Firstly, maybe a report of what 
you want it to look like. 

1439
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:18,080
So spend, you know, 1520 minutes
writing it perfectly. 

1440
00:55:18,240 --> 00:55:20,520
Yeah, because you can then 
upload that later on to ChatGPT,

1441
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:23,080
like you said. 
But also alongside that, the way

1442
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:24,960
I've always done reports, even 
when I've been writing it 

1443
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:27,760
myself, is I've created a 
structure to the report. 

1444
00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:29,600
Yeah. 
And it's an overarching theme 

1445
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:32,600
for each part. 
For example, first bullet point 

1446
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:36,640
attitude in class, second bullet
point social circle and 

1447
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:39,640
friendship groups. 
Third bullet point effort. 

1448
00:55:39,720 --> 00:55:42,840
Yeah. 4th bullet point behaviour
in class and how they respond to

1449
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:45,160
how they treat other adults and 
other other people, for example.

1450
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:48,800
5th bullet point, you know core 
personal strength so. 

1451
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:50,400
You have that always there to 
see. 

1452
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:51,680
That's a reference. 
Exactly. 

1453
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:54,000
So when I've got when I've got 
then child A, what I used to do 

1454
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:57,240
was go, I'm going to write a 
sentence now about their, their 

1455
00:55:57,240 --> 00:55:59,240
social bonds with the children. 
Yeah. 

1456
00:55:59,240 --> 00:56:01,400
And I'd sit there and I go, OK, 
well, I know, I know I could 

1457
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:03,560
write a bullet point now. 
I could write in 10 seconds. 

1458
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:08,680
A few strong individual friend 
friendship bonds with children 

1459
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:11,640
in the class struggle sometimes 
with making friends in larger 

1460
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:13,000
groups on playtime. 
That's said there's. 

1461
00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:14,320
A bullet point. 
That's a bullet point. 

1462
00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:18,040
It's not acceptable as a formal 
written report because it's not 

1463
00:56:18,040 --> 00:56:20,360
written in a formal way. 
It's not written in a way, but 

1464
00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:23,880
maybe that is sympathetic to the
child as much because I've just 

1465
00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:26,280
written the fact that they're 
not very good at making friends 

1466
00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:28,040
in the playground. 
I'd never put that in the actual

1467
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:29,840
report. 
That would take me 5 seconds. 

1468
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:32,240
So I know that information. 
What would take me time 

1469
00:56:32,240 --> 00:56:35,400
previously about AI would be 
formulating that in a nicely 

1470
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:37,280
written way that isn't repeating
what I've said for every other 

1471
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:39,360
child in the same situation and 
then moving on to the next 

1472
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:41,440
thing. 
So the reason why it's really 

1473
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:43,960
powerful just to spend a bit of 
time, I think is the thing here.

1474
00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:46,960
Spend a bit of time having a 
plan, having your bullet points,

1475
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:49,560
spend a bit of time just writing
it out and it'd be very quick 

1476
00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:51,200
because you know your children 
so well by the end of the year. 

1477
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:53,640
Through your bullet points. 
And spend a bit of time just 

1478
00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:57,280
training up the AI. 
Don't make it create every 

1479
00:56:57,280 --> 00:56:58,520
single report for you 
immediately. 

1480
00:56:58,520 --> 00:57:00,160
Don't do that. 
Play around with one child. 

1481
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:02,720
Say what you're going to do the 
prompts and say do it for this 

1482
00:57:02,720 --> 00:57:04,560
child. 
OK, Well, that OK, that doesn't 

1483
00:57:04,560 --> 00:57:06,560
fit in the box that my school 
will give me as a pro forma. 

1484
00:57:06,720 --> 00:57:08,840
OK, do it again, but this time 
140 words long. 

1485
00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:10,600
Yeah, yeah, do it again, but 
make it more formal. 

1486
00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:12,760
Because even though I said in 
formal tone, I know this is a 

1487
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:15,320
formal document, You played 
around with it a bit. 

1488
00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:17,320
Track GBT. 
Instead of giving up, spend a 

1489
00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:18,480
bit of time training. 
Yeah. 

1490
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:21,960
And then when you're happy, then
you've written your notes for 

1491
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:23,920
the child. 
It takes it takes honesty. 

1492
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:25,920
It takes me. 
I'm going to be realistic 

1493
00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:29,400
probably 1/5 of the time to 
write bullet point notes about a

1494
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:32,800
child compared to writing a 
fully fledged out formal piece 

1495
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:36,160
of piece of writing a paragraph.
But it's still got 100% of the 

1496
00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:37,120
personal touch. 
Yeah. 

1497
00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:40,320
Because all all that my brain 
power is going on is formulating

1498
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:41,240
it and writing it in a certain 
way. 

1499
00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:42,320
Yeah, Yeah, yeah. 
That's where the large. 

1500
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:44,240
Language model comes in just 
cutting out the last step where 

1501
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:46,320
you would have turned your 
informal bullet point in your 

1502
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:47,960
head into your own formal 
sentence. 

1503
00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:49,560
You're now just saying, here's 
my informal bullet point. 

1504
00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:52,080
Can you just do the last bit for
me and turn it into a formal 

1505
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:53,120
sentence? 
Because that's a bit that 

1506
00:57:53,120 --> 00:57:55,880
doesn't really matter about us. 
Who cares if we do that? 

1507
00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:56,920
But it just needs to be 
personal. 

1508
00:57:57,160 --> 00:57:59,200
That's very different to the 
opinion a couple of years ago. 

1509
00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:00,760
People like we can't use AIT 
reports. 

1510
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:04,200
They had this idea that we were 
literally saying here is here's 

1511
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:07,160
32 names, right, missing reports
and it's just completely 

1512
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:08,600
made-up. 
It's like, do you know what? 

1513
00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:10,520
I, I can't imagine anyone was 
even doing that. 

1514
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:13,000
Then I think people just made-up
some some circumstances like no 

1515
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:14,040
one's doing that what you're 
talking. 

1516
00:58:14,040 --> 00:58:16,200
About and and if they did you 
know what you would do to that 

1517
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:18,720
person you would talk to that 
person and explain why that's 

1518
00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:20,920
bad and get them to do it in a 
different way What you wouldn't 

1519
00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:22,920
do was just take away this 
mechanism from everyone in the 

1520
00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:26,200
whole country yeah yeah classic,
classic, classic like that it's 

1521
00:58:26,200 --> 00:58:29,120
crazy yeah. 
I think understanding ChatGPT in

1522
00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:32,120
general is going to be able to 
unlock I think a lot of these 

1523
00:58:32,120 --> 00:58:33,480
for. 
Can I add one thing to it as 

1524
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:35,160
well, because it's important to 
understand this again, I'm 

1525
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:36,840
really I'm really here to try 
and convert people that maybe 

1526
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:39,080
had a dabble in this last year 
and weren't completely 

1527
00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:41,480
convinced, right. 
ChatGPT since then has developed

1528
00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:43,400
its memory system really, 
really, really well. 

1529
00:58:43,400 --> 00:58:46,000
So ChatGPT 3 was the first one 
that came out in 2022. 

1530
00:58:46,040 --> 00:58:48,040
It actually didn't have memory. 
It didn't have a memory system, 

1531
00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:50,640
right. 
Whereas now if you if you have 

1532
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:53,600
like 1 long stream of chat with 
ChatGPT or even another whole 

1533
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:56,160
new chat, it kind of starts 
learning you as a person, right.

1534
00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:59,280
So if you've done all this grunt
work, like Dylan said with one 

1535
00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:01,760
just to get the report perfectly
how you said it is, you don't 

1536
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:04,000
then have to re prompt it 
underneath and be like, OK, I 

1537
00:59:04,520 --> 00:59:06,680
want you to do this, this, this,
this, this and this and this for

1538
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:09,960
all my other kids. 
You just say do that for this 

1539
00:59:09,960 --> 00:59:11,520
whole list now. 
And it knows what that is 

1540
00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:13,880
because it has it's it's 
understanding of reasoning and 

1541
00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:16,640
it's understanding of even 
nuance is is crazy good. 

1542
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:18,880
Now, even like one more thing, 
just I'm trying to think of 

1543
00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:20,360
anything that people might have 
against this. 

1544
00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:22,280
Right. 
When you said your bullet point 

1545
00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:24,480
might be quite harsh and to the 
point and you obviously wouldn't

1546
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:26,120
word it like that. 
People might say, well, if 

1547
00:59:26,120 --> 00:59:28,680
you're just giving ChatGPT A 
harsh point, it might word it 

1548
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:31,520
with your harsh wordings. 
Nope, It is so good at 

1549
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:33,320
understanding nuance. 
Now it knows that's rude. 

1550
00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:35,920
I know it sounds crazy. 
Me saying it's just, it's just 

1551
00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:38,200
an AI bot. 
It knows that's rude and it will

1552
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:40,360
not word it like. 
That and if it doesn't retrain 

1553
00:59:40,360 --> 00:59:42,680
it, that's the point. 
If it doesn't do that, just say 

1554
00:59:42,680 --> 00:59:45,960
to it that was to on the nose. 
Although we still want this 

1555
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:48,560
truth to come through because it
is something that a parent 

1556
00:59:48,560 --> 00:59:50,600
should know about a child if 
they're struggling socially. 

1557
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:52,960
Can we do it in a way that's 
more sensitive, perhaps, but 

1558
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:55,480
still formal, And it will do it.
Yeah, and the chances are if you

1559
00:59:55,480 --> 00:59:56,920
get your prompt right at the 
start, you won't have to. 

1560
00:59:56,920 --> 00:59:59,480
I think in my prompt I put 
remember this is has to be 

1561
00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:01,160
appropriate for parents reading 
about their children. 

1562
01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:02,760
Yeah, something like that along 
the lines. 

1563
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:05,840
So and it just, it just 
extrapolated that OK, this needs

1564
01:00:05,840 --> 01:00:08,160
to be appropriate because it's 
it knows everything about every 

1565
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:10,640
text in the Internet ever. 
It knows what it looks like. 

1566
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:13,320
It's just, it's insanely good. 
I I couldn't recommend it 

1567
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:13,840
anymore. 
I. 

1568
01:00:13,840 --> 01:00:15,840
Think that's that That is the 
big point though, isn't it about

1569
01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:18,520
spending time getting it to the 
level it should be? 

1570
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:20,360
Yeah. 
But of course, Dylan, there are 

1571
01:00:20,360 --> 01:00:23,400
always drawbacks, right? 
There are, There are, there are 

1572
01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:25,960
things that people will 
counteract this with that there 

1573
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:27,160
are arguments. 
People say, yeah, but we 

1574
01:00:27,160 --> 01:00:28,720
shouldn't be using AI for this 
reason. 

1575
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:29,800
Yeah. 
Should we go through a few of 

1576
01:00:29,800 --> 01:00:30,360
those? 
And. 

1577
01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:32,480
And yeah, I feel like we've 
covered quite a few of them. 

1578
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:35,000
Yeah, because we talked about 
GDPRGDPR is a big problem. 

1579
01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:37,000
We don't want to be uploading 
names that's identifiable for 

1580
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:39,360
children. 
Easy way around that is simply 

1581
01:00:39,600 --> 01:00:41,280
if you, especially if you're 
going down the free route of 

1582
01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:44,600
using ChatGPT yourself, just 
build in that yourself, label 

1583
01:00:44,600 --> 01:00:46,880
the children like you said, 
ABCD, go back in and just put a 

1584
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:48,120
name in. 
It's still quicker. 

1585
01:00:48,360 --> 01:00:51,840
I think you can avoid GDPR risks
and by taking away any 

1586
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:53,720
identifiable names with the 
children. 

1587
01:00:53,960 --> 01:00:55,360
I think that's then fine. 
Yeah. 

1588
01:00:55,360 --> 01:00:57,120
The fact it takes so long, we've
talked about that. 

1589
01:00:57,120 --> 01:01:00,040
I just don't think that's true. 
If you're doing it properly, if 

1590
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:02,640
you're doing it in a way which 
saves time, obviously it's gonna

1591
01:01:02,640 --> 01:01:03,480
save time. 
Yeah. 

1592
01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:06,480
If you're essentially writing it
and then just putting it into 

1593
01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:08,600
chat TPT and it just changes 
what you've already written as a

1594
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:10,960
fully fledged paragraph, yeah, 
that won't save you time. 

1595
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:13,560
You're adding an extra step in. 
So just be sensible about what 

1596
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:15,080
you're doing. 
I think there's a couple of 

1597
01:01:15,080 --> 01:01:18,480
things we can touch upon here 
that we haven't maybe, but we 

1598
01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:20,720
can briefly talk about now 
because there'll be people who 

1599
01:01:20,720 --> 01:01:23,280
sat through this whole thing 
going AI is, yeah, it's 

1600
01:01:23,280 --> 01:01:24,560
brilliant. 
It is fantastic. 

1601
01:01:24,560 --> 01:01:26,840
It does all this stuff. 
It can have like beautiful 

1602
01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:29,840
outcomes for the children. 
I spoke earlier about how that 

1603
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:31,720
child's now engaged to do 
writing. 

1604
01:01:31,720 --> 01:01:35,640
Isn't that amazing? 
But isn't it's awful for the 

1605
01:01:35,640 --> 01:01:36,880
environment? 
Yeah, There are just things 

1606
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:38,560
where it's like, I don't have an
answer for this, but we should. 

1607
01:01:38,560 --> 01:01:41,160
We should acknowledge them 
because if we're here, we should

1608
01:01:41,160 --> 01:01:43,160
be responsible. 
Like, yeah, it is it. 

1609
01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:45,360
Using energy that we otherwise 
wouldn't be. 

1610
01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:47,000
Using it uses a lot of energy, a
lot more. 

1611
01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:49,760
I think people realise that to 
generate one prompt, it's a lot 

1612
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:52,440
of computing power and computing
power generally generates heat 

1613
01:01:52,680 --> 01:01:55,280
and to how do we, how do we 
generally cool down computing 

1614
01:01:55,280 --> 01:01:58,400
systems Normally with water, we 
and we need a lot of water to do

1615
01:01:58,400 --> 01:01:59,360
it. 
And do you know what I mean? 

1616
01:01:59,360 --> 01:02:01,120
The whole system goes there. 
It does create a lot of energy. 

1617
01:02:01,120 --> 01:02:03,400
So it's worth considering. 
I think a lot of AI companies 

1618
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:07,720
are are trying to build their 
new infrastructure with this in 

1619
01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:11,040
mind to like reduce it as much. 
But at the end of the day, it 

1620
01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:12,960
will always use loads more 
energy. 

1621
01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:14,120
They're not. 
They're not ever going to get to

1622
01:02:14,120 --> 01:02:15,600
the point where they're like, 
oh, it doesn't use energy 

1623
01:02:15,600 --> 01:02:17,640
anymore, Of course it will. 
They might create better cooling

1624
01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:20,400
systems. 
I'm not suddenly not sceptical 

1625
01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:21,920
about big business, just I like 
AI. 

1626
01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:24,080
Yeah, yeah, I'm not going to be 
like they'll give me a free pass

1627
01:02:24,080 --> 01:02:25,400
because it does this really cool
thing for me. 

1628
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:27,960
No, no, this is huge business 
making billions of pounds. 

1629
01:02:28,120 --> 01:02:29,880
They're going to do shortcuts 
and they're going to rinse 

1630
01:02:29,880 --> 01:02:30,720
energy. 
And that is a. 

1631
01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:32,000
Problem. 
It's a huge challenge and it's a

1632
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:33,440
huge downfall and a downside to 
use. 

1633
01:02:33,440 --> 01:02:36,760
Is it enough to not use? 
It depends where you stand on 

1634
01:02:36,760 --> 01:02:38,480
it, I suppose, isn't it? 
For some people it is do. 

1635
01:02:38,480 --> 01:02:42,920
You drive to the shop, you know 
driving is is 100 times more 

1636
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:45,120
than doing prompts. 
Yeah, I think I read somewhere 

1637
01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:50,000
that per kilometre driving in a 
petrol car is equivalent to 

1638
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:54,680
about 250 AI prompts, right. 
OK, so I'm not, I'm not 

1639
01:02:54,680 --> 01:02:57,600
justifying stuff here because 
because again, using AI, using 

1640
01:02:57,640 --> 01:03:00,640
AI is like I think 15 to 20 
times more energy than using 

1641
01:03:00,640 --> 01:03:02,280
Google. 
So there's obviously layers 

1642
01:03:02,280 --> 01:03:03,480
here. 
I'm don't get me wrong. 

1643
01:03:03,520 --> 01:03:05,400
And the small things are still 
important. 

1644
01:03:05,440 --> 01:03:07,080
They are. 
I'm not saying they aren't. 

1645
01:03:07,360 --> 01:03:12,000
But if you can, for example, if 
you're working from home, you've

1646
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:15,440
chosen to work from home and 
you're not no longer driving 10 

1647
01:03:15,440 --> 01:03:20,000
kilometres there and back, OK? 
That is, you've got over 2000 AI

1648
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:22,920
prompts you can use that day and
still be in the green for how 

1649
01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:25,360
much energy you've consumed. 
Yeah, because you've saved the 

1650
01:03:25,360 --> 01:03:28,960
driving energy for doing that. 
It's just a game of give and 

1651
01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:31,600
take and I think you've just got
to be sensible about it, 

1652
01:03:31,760 --> 01:03:35,280
understand what you're doing, be
be able to defend it in the same

1653
01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:37,320
way that I defend driving to 
Tesco, which is 2 minutes down 

1654
01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:38,560
the road. 
I'll do that. 

1655
01:03:38,560 --> 01:03:40,520
Sometimes I'll walk, but 
sometimes I'm like, no, it'll 

1656
01:03:40,520 --> 01:03:42,080
take half the time. 
I'll just drive quickly. 

1657
01:03:42,520 --> 01:03:45,520
I think it's easy to forget that
that like that compared to 

1658
01:03:45,520 --> 01:03:47,200
something new. 
When something new comes in, 

1659
01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:49,560
it's like, Oh no, no, it's using
energy that wasn't there before.

1660
01:03:49,760 --> 01:03:53,080
Yeah, But there are other things
I can do in my life if I'm 

1661
01:03:53,080 --> 01:03:56,320
really, truly worried about that
level of energy usage. 

1662
01:03:56,800 --> 01:03:59,800
That can easily compensate for 
that Yeah, yeah, just to do 1 

1663
01:03:59,800 --> 01:04:02,280
less drive a month, honestly, 
and that'll probably account for

1664
01:04:02,280 --> 01:04:04,280
all the amount of times you use 
ChatGPT as a normal, but as a 

1665
01:04:04,280 --> 01:04:05,560
normal user. 
That's fair enough. 

1666
01:04:05,560 --> 01:04:07,600
And the and the last big one, I 
think we kind of covered it, but

1667
01:04:07,600 --> 01:04:09,160
it's worth mentioning. 
It's just that people say it's 

1668
01:04:09,160 --> 01:04:12,120
just morally wrong. 
It's morally wrong to not write 

1669
01:04:12,120 --> 01:04:13,680
it yourself. 
These are reports that are going

1670
01:04:13,680 --> 01:04:15,880
to parents. 
It shouldn't be under the 

1671
01:04:15,880 --> 01:04:19,080
disguise that you didn't write 
it entirely yourself. 

1672
01:04:19,080 --> 01:04:20,400
It's a big argument that people 
make. 

1673
01:04:21,160 --> 01:04:22,640
I I don't think it has many 
legs. 

1674
01:04:22,640 --> 01:04:25,200
What do you think about that? 
Morally wrong to use AI? 

1675
01:04:25,760 --> 01:04:28,560
Did I hope this person turned 
off spell check when they used 

1676
01:04:28,560 --> 01:04:30,160
their Word document to write 
their reports? 

1677
01:04:30,400 --> 01:04:33,200
I hope this person never looked 
up a synonym for a word like 

1678
01:04:33,200 --> 01:04:35,640
what? 
At what point does everything 

1679
01:04:35,640 --> 01:04:36,920
have to come from your own 
brain? 

1680
01:04:37,480 --> 01:04:40,960
I think what has to come from 
your own brain is the fact and 

1681
01:04:40,960 --> 01:04:44,320
information about the children 
that has to come from the person

1682
01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:45,360
who's been with the child all 
year. 

1683
01:04:45,760 --> 01:04:49,560
That's just a fact. 
The the prose and the way we 

1684
01:04:49,560 --> 01:04:53,360
write it and the formality of it
and the word choice of it 

1685
01:04:53,880 --> 01:04:56,080
absolutely doesn't have to come 
from a human. 

1686
01:04:56,080 --> 01:04:58,160
And it never has done. 
No, it's never been. 

1687
01:04:58,440 --> 01:05:01,080
We used to have banks. 
I think Twinkle used to release 

1688
01:05:01,080 --> 01:05:03,880
a bank or they still do, where 
you would take sentence stems 

1689
01:05:04,080 --> 01:05:06,520
because you, the adult, have 
chosen which sentence stem 

1690
01:05:06,520 --> 01:05:08,080
matches the child. 
That's your input. 

1691
01:05:08,200 --> 01:05:10,160
But it doesn't matter how it's 
written and if the same child 

1692
01:05:10,160 --> 01:05:11,360
gets the same sentence. 
Yeah, they just need the 

1693
01:05:11,360 --> 01:05:12,640
information. 
They just need the information. 

1694
01:05:12,640 --> 01:05:14,960
So I think there's a clear 
distinction, and that always has

1695
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:17,560
been between what clearly has to
come from the teacher and what 

1696
01:05:17,560 --> 01:05:19,240
doesn't. 
Yeah, we're just adding AI to 

1697
01:05:19,240 --> 01:05:21,480
this side of things that it 
doesn't have to, making it 

1698
01:05:21,480 --> 01:05:24,200
cleaner, making it way more 
personal, making it better than 

1699
01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:26,600
what already existed. 
But we're kind of just some 

1700
01:05:26,600 --> 01:05:28,280
people are seeing AI and going 
morally wrong. 

1701
01:05:28,280 --> 01:05:31,360
I was like, well, it's no less 
wrong than using a Bank of 

1702
01:05:31,360 --> 01:05:33,040
words. 
Yeah, you're still choosing as 

1703
01:05:33,040 --> 01:05:34,240
the adult. 
And if anything, it's better 

1704
01:05:34,240 --> 01:05:36,560
because it's more personal. 
It's funny what the perception 

1705
01:05:36,560 --> 01:05:38,000
of being professional does, 
doesn't it? 

1706
01:05:38,080 --> 01:05:40,760
Because really, if we go down 
this Fort train, why aren't we 

1707
01:05:40,760 --> 01:05:41,880
just giving them the bullet 
points? 

1708
01:05:42,120 --> 01:05:44,440
Yeah. 
Why aren't we just giving the 

1709
01:05:44,440 --> 01:05:46,040
parents the bullet points that 
we write that we put into 

1710
01:05:46,040 --> 01:05:48,040
ChatGPT and they have to 
decipher it back into bullet 

1711
01:05:48,040 --> 01:05:49,160
points? 
Because that's basically what 

1712
01:05:49,160 --> 01:05:50,800
they're doing is they're reading
it, they're interpreting it and 

1713
01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:52,800
then going, oh, OK, so my kids. 
Are so the bullet points are 

1714
01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:54,520
this, yeah. 
They go my kids a bit silly in 

1715
01:05:54,520 --> 01:05:56,080
class, but obviously the 
professionals, they've worded it

1716
01:05:56,080 --> 01:05:57,040
nicely. 
Yeah, it's funny enough, mate. 

1717
01:05:57,040 --> 01:05:58,480
I actually put that in my 
original bullet point. 

1718
01:05:58,480 --> 01:05:59,440
Your kid is a bit silly in 
class. 

1719
01:06:00,200 --> 01:06:02,200
Yeah, Doesn't this, I think 
there's a meta conversation 

1720
01:06:02,200 --> 01:06:04,000
maybe just to finish this off 
when I was like 30 seconds. 

1721
01:06:04,000 --> 01:06:05,960
Yeah. 
How useful are reports anyway? 

1722
01:06:05,960 --> 01:06:08,120
We've spoken about this. 
What are reports? 

1723
01:06:08,240 --> 01:06:11,040
To me, they're like a keepsake 
to see what you were like when 

1724
01:06:11,040 --> 01:06:12,120
you were younger, when you're 
older. 

1725
01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:15,720
And and they're statutory needed
to give to the parents of 

1726
01:06:15,840 --> 01:06:17,160
government. 
Say you have to report on the 

1727
01:06:17,160 --> 01:06:19,200
children. 
They don't have to be all 

1728
01:06:19,200 --> 01:06:20,960
singing and dancing. 
No, from school to school 

1729
01:06:20,960 --> 01:06:22,480
reports look different. 
I've worked in a school where 

1730
01:06:22,480 --> 01:06:25,880
you got like a 30 page booklet 
for your report and there was 

1731
01:06:25,880 --> 01:06:29,080
some massively in depth stuff. 
And we as teachers, you had to 

1732
01:06:29,080 --> 01:06:30,760
write so much. 
And that was before AI. 

1733
01:06:31,080 --> 01:06:32,800
And I've worked in another 
school where it's one side of a 

1734
01:06:32,840 --> 01:06:35,360
four. 
So, so like there's, there's a 

1735
01:06:35,360 --> 01:06:37,520
discrepancy there. 
Wait, it's coming full circle 

1736
01:06:37,520 --> 01:06:38,880
here. 
Because it seems to me like, 

1737
01:06:38,880 --> 01:06:41,720
yes, there are sometimes things 
in schools that are mental that 

1738
01:06:41,720 --> 01:06:44,640
we simply don't have to do, but 
we convince ourselves we do for 

1739
01:06:44,640 --> 01:06:46,760
some reason. 
And then that from the knock on 

1740
01:06:46,760 --> 01:06:49,080
effect of someone in charge 
who's decided that means 

1741
01:06:49,160 --> 01:06:51,600
hundreds and hundreds of hours 
for teachers to have to do in 

1742
01:06:51,600 --> 01:06:52,840
their own time. 
Guess what? 

1743
01:06:52,840 --> 01:06:55,880
Guys use AI. 
My school said I can't use AI. 

1744
01:06:56,080 --> 01:06:57,720
Do it anyway. 
They're not going to know. 

1745
01:06:57,720 --> 01:06:59,240
They don't come full circle on 
this episode. 

1746
01:06:59,240 --> 01:07:01,520
You just wait, give it a couple 
of years, and moderations won't 

1747
01:07:01,520 --> 01:07:02,640
exist. 
You know what's going to happen?

1748
01:07:02,840 --> 01:07:05,080
Everyone has to upload their 
children's writing into this 

1749
01:07:05,080 --> 01:07:07,520
insane AI machine that knows the
teacher assessment framework and

1750
01:07:07,520 --> 01:07:08,920
it tells you whether it's 
expected or not. 

1751
01:07:08,920 --> 01:07:11,160
CLA everybody. 
No one's got a job anymore and 

1752
01:07:11,160 --> 01:07:13,000
this episode is over. 
Yeah, thank you, everyone. 

1753
01:07:13,000 --> 01:07:17,800
Potential, literally, literally.
And yeah, I just want to spread 

1754
01:07:17,800 --> 01:07:20,400
my thanks everyone for watching 
this AI generated piece of 

1755
01:07:20,400 --> 01:07:23,000
content. 
If you enjoyed this AI generated

1756
01:07:23,000 --> 01:07:24,960
podcast, please leave us a 
review. 

1757
01:07:25,120 --> 01:07:26,680
See you next time. 
Bye. 

1758
01:07:26,720 --> 01:07:27,800
I'm real, I promise.