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Hello everyone. 
Welcome back to another episode 

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of Teach the Repeat. 
My name is Dylan and my name is 

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Hayden. 
And we're back with another 

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question and answer our lovely 
WhatsApp community. 

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You can join down below. 
Even a few questions from our 

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website, I forget we have one of
them. 

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Hayden. 
Yeah. 

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I'm not going to lie. 
Set that up and let that run, 

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didn't we? 
Yeah, it's like, oh, we must get

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a website. 
We must get a website. 

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Never look. 
Don't even know what it is. 

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Never look down in the 
description, we'll link to it. 

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But thank you so much because 
there have been a few 

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submissions from there as well. 
Without further ado. 

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I was switching pretty quickly 
and immediately into. 

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A hand? 
No one. 

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Ever says that with with sorry, 
with further ado before we jump 

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in. 
I was with I was with Lauren's 

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dad and Lauren's step sister the
other day, right? 

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And she, to give her credit, 
avid listener. 

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She's 20 years old. 
Yep, 20 years old. 

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And she's been listening for 
like 2 years since we started. 

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So shout out Jazz. 
Thanks for listening. 

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Keep giving us feedback. 
And she said her favourite 

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episodes are the Q&A's. 
Yeah, I favourite ones, I must 

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say personally, I know I am 
involved in both and plan the 

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other ones a lot of the time, 
but these ones I love because it

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feels more laid back. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

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And that was a good use of 
further ado. 

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I'm going to start doing that 
for now, saying with further. 

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ADO. 
When I want to store something, 

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I. 
Go straight now. 

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I can't think of the original 
phrase Without without. 

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Without is it? 
Without further ado. 

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Without further. 
Ado. 

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OK, yeah. 
And it means like without like. 

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It means go straight into it. 
Sorry with ado. 

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With further ado, actually, I 
want to mention something else. 

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Oh God. 
Anyway, but without further ado,

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let's read this first question. 
Where do teachers stand with 

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residentials? 
Oh baby, how how what? 

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What was on your bingo card for 
the time of the year when we 

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would first mention 
residentials? 

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Jazzle. 
No, this is our third iteration 

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of what's going on about it. 
Anyway, I can see where this is 

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going. 
I'm a second year ECT and it's 

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my first year in year 56 and 
they are going on their 

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residential. 
I have not been asked to go so I

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think there is an assumption 
that I am as they are my class. 

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Yet the previous teacher never 
went on residentials. 

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The trip also leaves on a 
Sunday, so I would have to give 

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up part of my weekend and gain 
nothing from the 24/7 work for 

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four days in a row. 
I don't want to seem like I 

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don't care and be awkward, but 
it's unfair to assume I'd go 

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just because they're my class 
and I have no children at home. 

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I worry my executive head will 
hold this against me in the ECT 

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review as she has a habit of 
bringing up previous points and 

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holding grudges. 
Gain nothing. 

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Does she understand what this 
vocation is? 

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Does she understand the 
experience that you'll gain? 

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Do it for the love of the 
children. 

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Some relationships you'll build 
with those children that'll be 

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worth it. 
Gain nothing. 

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Right. 
I think this, jokes aside, is a 

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really good question because it 
does round everything off 

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because quite often we'll get 
questions like this and me and 

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you'll just say, you know, you 
don't have to do it, just say 

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no. 
And that's obviously very easy 

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to say and some people struggle 
with doing that in general, but 

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it really was cut off at the end
with literally this person's 

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worried about being held against
them when it comes to stare of 

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you by people in charge. 
That is something like you 

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actually can't control. 
So I want to dive. 

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I want to jump straight into 
that of your opinion because I'm

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sure we'll talk about the rest 
of the second, but that really 

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piques my interest of what do 
you literally do when you think 

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actually, do you know what this 
will affect my performance 

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review, potentially even my pay 
and my future standing in this 

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school and future opportunities.
Does that come into it at all 

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when you decide to do these 
things? 

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It does. 
It does come into it and 

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absolutely it would affect my 
decision. 

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Should it? 
I don't know. 

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I don't know if it should. 
It probably shouldn't really if 

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we're being objective like on 
paper like that probably 

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shouldn't. 
OK, I just want to clarify what 

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I mean because I don't mean, I 
suppose when I say should it, 

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it's easy to say, well, it 
shouldn't. 

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But it what I mean is in the 
actual situation where you are a

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teacher in a school where it is 
going, should that make your 

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decision change? 
Like not should it exist in the 

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1st place because of it's 
obvious that shouldn't exist in 

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the 1st place. 
Yeah. 

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But I mean, now you're in a 
school with a head or, you know,

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has passed of going after people
and holding stuff against them 

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and not and and like limiting 
their career. 

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Yeah. 
In that situation, should you 

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just swallow it and take it and 
go for it or or should you still

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hold your ground? 
Oh. 

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It's, I think, look, I, I 
genuinely think you can kind of 

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separate them a bit and do both 
and and, but by that I mean 

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because. 
I don't know what you're on. 

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About I, I think, I think you, 
you can still make the decision 

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in that moment to be all right, 
I'm going to do this, but 

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there's a bigger play here. 
I'm going to do this. 

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I'm going to go on the 
presidential. 

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You might even sort of want to 
go anyway, but you're thinking 

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I'm not going to make a point. 
However, I will make my point a 

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different way. 
I'm still, I'm not just going to

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do it and roll over and say 
nothing. 

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I'm going to do it. 
But I am also going to raise my 

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concerns with, with whoever it 
is with this or T whatever and 

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say, look, I really didn't like 
that you would just presume that

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I would go, Obviously I'm going 
to go, OK, it's not a problem. 

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Why? 
I'm not saying I'm not going to 

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go, but it did make me feel like
this, you know, whatever, 

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however it made you feel. 
And I don't like the fact that 

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I've been pressured into this 
decision when realistically no 

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other teacher has. 
And last year the teacher didn't

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even go and I've not been given 
that same grace. 

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So I feel like you can do the 
thing. 

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You can still tick the box, 
right, That ultimately they're 

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going to go. 
Oh well, they did do it though 

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and raise the thing. 
But what like from a leader's it

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like I'm just being honest. 
That sounds like a bit of a cop 

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out in terms. 
Yeah, in terms of you still have

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to, you still do it. 
So the if I was a leader in that

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situation, I know I'm being a 
douche, but I know I'm being an 

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idiot. 
So if if you know, they go, oh, 

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I'll do it. 
But as soon as I hear that, I'm 

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like called turn off. 
Oh yeah, do. 

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You know if there's a difference
then between being called out on

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something and not being called 
out? 

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Yeah, completely. 
You should definitely call them 

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out in it. 
But ultimately I don't think, I 

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don't think what you said will 
change the mind of someone who 

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has already made that decision 
to be an idiot like that person 

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that that head is going to hold 
this against. 

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I, I can guarantee understands 
and knows they shouldn't be 

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doing that, but they're doing it
as a technique to get free 

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labour out of someone. 
They're being toxic. 

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So as soon as you say yeah, OK, 
I'll do it, but it's not nice 

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what you're doing, the head will
just go. 

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I know, but in their head like 
yeah, great. 

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But are you going to do it 
though? 

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You are going to do it? 
Cool. 

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Nice one. 
Thanks. 

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OK. 
So I guess that's where this is 

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going. 
I think there probably are some 

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people that if they get called 
out on something, they'd maybe 

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think twice about doing it next 
time. 

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Do you know what I mean? 
It's like a as long as they 

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don't get called out, they're 
thinking, oh, easy, easy to get 

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away with this. 
Nothing on my conscience. 

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As soon as someone approaches 
them and says I know exactly 

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what you're doing and no one 
likes it, I feel like maybe 

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they'd think twice about do you?
Not think they already know 

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that. 
I think they know it, but I 

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just, I literally think the acts
of being called out sometimes 

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make people think twice about 
doing stuff that they already 

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know. 
They already know what they're 

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doing is not very nice, but 
because no one challenges them, 

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they it's easy to do. 
Do you apply, do you apply that 

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kind of logic to striking? 
Like if as long as you call it 

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out and say it's bad. 
Don't go out and strike though. 

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What? 
What do you mean? 

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So like in terms of if we apply 
that logic to striking and like,

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oh, don't go on strike, please. 
And they know that it's because 

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of a good reason. 
If you just call out the bad 

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things, is that enough? 
You don't have to go as far as 

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going on strike. 
If you call out the bad 

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leadership in terms of expecting
you to go on trips for nothing, 

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but you still do it, OK, fine. 
But you called it out and that's

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enough. 
Is is calling out enough always?

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Or are you being specific in a 
situation? 

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To to be really clear, I do 
absolutely not think that the 

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same thing. 
No, it's just like a middle 

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ground. 
No. 

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So I don't think that's yeah, 
yeah, I don't think they're the 

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same at all. 
But what I'm saying I don't 

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definitely don't think it's the 
same is I think this is a middle

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ground basically you're, I think
you're saying that calling it 

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out and going on the trip is the
same as not calling out and 

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going on the trip, I think. 
What I'm saying is it's it will 

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have the same impact in the long
term. 

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Yeah, yeah, sure. 
Because because I think 

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ultimately all people in this 
situation of leadership care 

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about is getting the numbers for
the trip to happen. 

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And I think they already know in
this situation that's been 

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described here, they already 
know that they're being having 

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an assumption or pushing someone
to do work for nothing or, or 

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pushing the boat. 
All I'm saying is I think as 

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long as they get what they want,
they don't care. 

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Sure. 
And maybe there are some leaders

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out there who I, I, I don't 
think there's a middle ground 

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of, I think either you know, 
what you're doing and whether 

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you're called out or not, 
whoever, whatever, you're going 

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to go on the trip. 
And I think there's some people 

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who don't necessarily know what 
they're doing who calling out 

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means they'll be like, oh, God, 
no, please don't go. 

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That's fine. 
Then like, oh, I'll change my 

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mind of expecting you to go. 
I don't think there are many 

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people out there who are 
expecting people to go who know 

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they're pushing the boat out. 
But then when called out will 

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suddenly be like, oh, no, sorry.
That's fine. 

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But I don't think that exists. 
I think I've been, I think I've 

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been really cynical maybe. 
I think I genuinely think I'm 

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trying to think of my own 
career. 

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Like I feel like I've always, 
it's always been really presumed

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that I would go on trips. 
But as soon as you said no, you 

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wouldn't. 
What I mean is as soon as you 

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said no and called out the the 
people you're talking about, who

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I know would be like, Oh my God,
yeah, no, please don't go. 

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Yeah, so. 
So calling out is enough. 

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But they did assume though up 
until that point. 

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Yeah, that's fine. 
But I'm. 

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We're talking about cynical head
to heel hold grudges against 

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people for not doing it. 
Yeah. 

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I think they're two separate 
camps where calling out won't 

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work for these people. 
Right. 

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OK, that's what I find that 
that's my gut instinct here. 

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Yeah. 
Yeah, I'm sure there are some 

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people where for some reason 
calling out makes you change 

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your mind, but. 
So for this person then, would 

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your, what would your advice be?
Would it be to Yeah, absolutely 

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stand. 
Your ground. 

227
00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:36,320
I'd say ignore everything else. 
What? 

228
00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:38,840
What's your opinion? 
And this person might say, you 

229
00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:40,760
know, I actually want to go. 
I used to want to go on 

230
00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:42,200
residentials and I did, and it 
was great. 

231
00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:44,600
I didn't, I didn't expect 
anything because I chose to go. 

232
00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:48,120
Yeah, right. 
Later on in my career, I chose 

233
00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:51,520
to go if I got payback for it 
because I had other commitments 

234
00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:54,160
in my life at that point where 
I'd still like to go, but I'm 

235
00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:56,280
also not going to do it for free
this time because of XYZ. 

236
00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:58,240
Yeah. 
And then I went because I got 

237
00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:00,200
time in lieu. 
And then there was a point in my

238
00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:02,680
career towards the end where I 
just didn't want to go in them 

239
00:09:02,680 --> 00:09:03,640
anymore. 
Yeah, no, but you could have 

240
00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:05,040
given me 3 days. 
And I was like, no, I just 

241
00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:07,320
actually don't want to go away. 
3 days, three nights away from 

242
00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:09,040
my family. 
So I don't want to do that right

243
00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:10,240
now. 
And I just say no. 

244
00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:10,920
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
Right. 

245
00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:13,000
So it depends. 
What I would say to this person 

246
00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:15,160
is you have to look at it, try 
and ignore everything else. 

247
00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:20,000
What's your actual opinion? 
And then say that, yeah, that is

248
00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:21,720
what I'd do. 
And I'd say if you want to go, 

249
00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:23,800
call, go like there be an 
assumption for whatever I 

250
00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:25,480
actually want to go. 
So this is beneficial for me. 

251
00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:27,680
As soon as it's not beneficial 
for you because of what you 

252
00:09:27,680 --> 00:09:29,720
actually want to do, raise it, 
say it. 

253
00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:31,720
And if they hold it against you,
get the governors and the Union.

254
00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:32,360
Involved, yeah. 
OK. 

255
00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:33,400
So you wouldn't be put off by 
that. 

256
00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:37,000
No, no, no, I personally and 
this person's asking for help 

257
00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:38,400
and that's just what I would do 
personally. 

258
00:09:38,680 --> 00:09:41,320
And I would say to this person, 
look, you have to go off what 

259
00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:45,880
you literally believe yourself. 
Don't pander to someone and 

260
00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:48,520
like, for example, I imagine a 
situation where you don't want 

261
00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:50,880
to go, but you're worried about 
them holding against you in the 

262
00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:54,160
future, so you do go. 
And I'm just like, that's 

263
00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:57,840
setting up a precedent for a 
future of continuously doing 

264
00:09:57,840 --> 00:09:58,400
this. 
Yeah, sure. 

265
00:09:58,400 --> 00:09:59,960
You have to break this cycle at 
some point. 

266
00:09:59,960 --> 00:10:02,720
Maybe you've decided at this 
point it's worth it for me just 

267
00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:06,440
to go this time. 
Overall, fine, OK, But that's 

268
00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:08,920
where I'd lead with because you 
are backed up by your contract 

269
00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:10,440
and your unions and your 
governors and your 

270
00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:12,840
whistleblowing policy. 
If someone holds this against 

271
00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:15,920
you, they literally can't. 
And I am fed up of people in 

272
00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:20,280
power being given a pass for 
acting this way simply because 

273
00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:22,760
it's awkward for the person. 
Or why? 

274
00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:24,480
Don't make a thing. 
Oh, don't go to that person. 

275
00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:26,280
Yeah, sorry. 
Don't expect me to do it for 

276
00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:28,280
nothing then. 
It comes from that. 

277
00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:30,000
We get it all the time of our 
posts online. 

278
00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:32,360
Why being divisive? 
Oh, I think it's actually the 

279
00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:34,960
people doing this who are being 
divisive and not me calling out 

280
00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:36,760
on social media. 
It's not. 

281
00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:38,880
It's not you that's the problem 
here, not wanting to go in this 

282
00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:40,920
residential. 
It's the assumption that you're 

283
00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:43,240
going to. 
That's the toxic part. 

284
00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:45,720
And I completely agree with 
calling it out, but all I'm 

285
00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:47,760
saying is don't call it out. 
But then just like go to the 

286
00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:50,160
status quo. 
Like I'm all for affirmative 

287
00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:51,800
action. 
I feel like we've drawn this 

288
00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:53,240
line quite a few times in 
general. 

289
00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:55,120
I'm much I'm much more likely to
say, yeah, go on strike. 

290
00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:57,760
Of course you should raise you 
will think more about, you know,

291
00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:00,400
public perception or, or what 
can you do other than that? 

292
00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:03,400
And that's a great dynamic, But 
I'm just trying to explain where

293
00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:04,960
I am if you seem like you're not
quite. 

294
00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:07,560
I really appreciate appreciate 
what you said. 

295
00:11:07,560 --> 00:11:09,160
I just always look for some sort
of middle ground. 

296
00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:10,760
I don't think you think that 
middle ground exists in this 

297
00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:12,320
situation. 
Yeah, but maybe that's it 

298
00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:14,560
because I'm, I'm saying this 
middle ground doesn't exist at 

299
00:11:14,560 --> 00:11:16,880
all, ever, but I just think it's
way less common. 

300
00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:20,560
I think if someone's doing this 
and being presumptuous and being

301
00:11:20,560 --> 00:11:22,560
a leader that's just hoping you 
do your extra work for free. 

302
00:11:22,560 --> 00:11:24,400
Yeah, Yeah. 
I don't think they don't know 

303
00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:25,880
that, no. 
And I don't think calling out 

304
00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:27,600
will affect. 
I think our common ground is 

305
00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:29,320
neither of us agree of getting 
walked all over there. 

306
00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:32,440
So neither of us are saying I'll
just do the trip. 

307
00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,280
That's not what I'm saying. 
I'm only saying unconditionally 

308
00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:37,880
I would do the trip, but I'd 
absolutely cause a ruckus and 

309
00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:40,480
make a point and say, look, next
year though, I'll do this trip 

310
00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:42,600
this year. 
I don't think, I think you have 

311
00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:44,560
just assumed that I'm going to 
be fine going. 

312
00:11:44,560 --> 00:11:46,080
You haven't actually asked me. 
No one's asked me. 

313
00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:48,400
I don't think that's fair. 
I am happy to go this year, but 

314
00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:51,800
next year I would appreciate 
being asked beforehand and just 

315
00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:53,640
just to start something. 
That's what that's what I'd do 

316
00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:56,320
if I was worried about all of 
those other factors. 

317
00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:57,920
And I was. 
And it was giving me, if it was 

318
00:11:57,920 --> 00:11:59,680
giving me too much anxiety, the 
idea that I was going to go 

319
00:11:59,680 --> 00:12:01,040
against the grain. 
And now that I think that all 

320
00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:02,880
eyes are going to be on me for 
the next year and I'm going to 

321
00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,600
hate every minute in this job, I
probably would just make that 

322
00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:07,760
middle ground decision to make 
my life a bit easier. 

323
00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:11,320
Yeah. 
But ultimately, me personally, I

324
00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:14,120
probably probably would do what 
you're saying, though. 

325
00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:15,640
Yeah, I still and just make a 
point. 

326
00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:17,840
It's down to the person, isn't 
it really, is what we're saying 

327
00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:19,880
here. 
Because I actually do agree with

328
00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:21,000
you. 
Like if it's going to make you 

329
00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:24,280
an anxious mess for the year and
it is net positive to just go 

330
00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:26,280
like some people always say, oh 
it's just better for me to do 

331
00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:29,240
work at the weekend because it 
just puts me at my mind at ease.

332
00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:31,680
I've got time to do it, it's my 
choice and I feel better for the

333
00:12:31,680 --> 00:12:33,680
week. 
Who am I to say don't do that? 

334
00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:37,400
Saying to this person like if 
there are two options here and 1

335
00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:40,400
is going when you don't want to 
but your life's easier or don't 

336
00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:41,840
go and then you've made your 
life tricky. 

337
00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:45,440
If you have decided that one of 
those options is better for you,

338
00:12:45,560 --> 00:12:46,680
who are we again? 
Exactly? 

339
00:12:46,680 --> 00:12:47,880
Don't do that. 
So that's fine. 

340
00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:49,280
That's kind of what I'm trying 
to open up really. 

341
00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:52,840
And what we'll do is if, if you 
know, you stand up for yourself 

342
00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:57,320
and you get, you know, loads of 
toxic behaviour hurled at you, 

343
00:12:57,440 --> 00:12:59,440
we'll just start a name and 
shame section of this podcast 

344
00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:01,840
where we just name and shame 
schools and people, right? 

345
00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:03,160
That would go down well. 
I think so. 

346
00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:05,840
I think so. 
Well what I mean is so toxic 

347
00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:10,200
lads calling it out, why are we 
giving the toxic people a pass? 

348
00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:12,600
Whatever. 
Next question. 

349
00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:14,000
OK, here we go. 
This is from the website. 

350
00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:15,640
Yeah, So it's from the website. 
There's an e-mail looks 

351
00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:17,760
different on my iPad and it is 
anonymous. 

352
00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:20,560
Good to know because there is a 
name and I will not read. 

353
00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:22,240
It at the end of. 
The bottom it says please keep 

354
00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:23,400
me. 
In other words, I've just seen 

355
00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:24,640
that yes, OK, cool. 
Right. 

356
00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:28,600
So from I'm just kidding. 
I I'm just kidding. 

357
00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:31,240
He's an ugly guy. 
Wow, don't say his name right? 

358
00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:33,520
I really liked hearing about 
your teaching journey this week,

359
00:13:33,680 --> 00:13:35,760
however, that's nice. 
Something that always comes up, 

360
00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:38,200
and I don't think this is 
intentional, is that you've 

361
00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:40,480
never taught in A1 formentary 
school and how difficult that 

362
00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:42,800
is. 
You were talking about becoming 

363
00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:45,120
maths leads of a hub in a big 
school but it's so difficult 

364
00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:46,800
leading a subject in A1 
formentary school. 

365
00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:49,160
Every teacher is at least one 
subject lead. 

366
00:13:49,680 --> 00:13:52,720
I have a colleague who works 2 
days and and leads 2 subjects. 

367
00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:53,680
Cracky. 
Oh my goodness. 

368
00:13:53,680 --> 00:13:57,000
I am three days year six class 
teacher and science lead and 

369
00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:00,480
we're lucky if we get 1/2 day 
out of class for our subject. 

370
00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:02,440
Wow a year? 
Sorry Oh my days. 

371
00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:05,040
I just wonder if the difference 
between one form entry and 

372
00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:06,640
larger schools could be 
something that you could discuss

373
00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:09,320
slash look into. 
I have only really worked in A1 

374
00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:10,800
form entry school and it's so 
hard. 

375
00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:12,640
All the planning is on you for 
your class. 

376
00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:15,560
Please keep me anonymous. 
Good job. 

377
00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:18,040
Firstly, I just want to say I 
have worked in one momentary 

378
00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:19,440
school. 
I did one year in one form. 

379
00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:21,120
And I was massively there and it
was horrendous. 

380
00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:23,160
And it was a brand new school. 
Brand new school and I did, 

381
00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:26,880
honestly, I did basically 
nothing for that subject because

382
00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:29,640
the workload was insane. 
I went in there with like these 

383
00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:32,320
high hopes of oh wow, I'm going 
to do all this stuff, all this 

384
00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:35,080
stuff like I've been doing at my
BIG4 form entry school before 

385
00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:36,960
massively would be have teams of
people that can actually do 

386
00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:38,560
stuff. 
I went into this school with the

387
00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:41,920
same thoughts and dreams and 
then got completely bogged down 

388
00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:43,120
with the fact that it's a one 
form. 

389
00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:45,480
To make the lessons. 
I needed to make so many more 

390
00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:47,920
lessons, so much more planning. 
It was ridiculous. 

391
00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:51,440
And I did the bare minimum from 
apps leadership that year, 

392
00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:53,960
purely not because outspite, 
purely because there was 

393
00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:57,480
literally no time left. 
So I can sympathise a little bit

394
00:14:57,480 --> 00:14:59,600
with the fact that they're 
vastly different depending on 

395
00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:01,680
what school you're in. 
I think I sympathise a lot. 

396
00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,120
Like, I think it's outrageous 
because like this person's 

397
00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:06,640
mentioned here about leading 
subjects, right? 

398
00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:07,880
You still need to lead a 
subject. 

399
00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:10,800
Your, you know, your grasp on 
the history curriculum as a 

400
00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:12,760
history lead and the progression
you need. 

401
00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:15,080
And, and if you were to get deep
dive, like like in our school a 

402
00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:17,600
couple years ago, got deep dive 
in history, everything you need 

403
00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:20,400
to know to do that properly 
doesn't change just because 

404
00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:22,280
you've got fewer children in the
school. 

405
00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:23,960
You still need to know 
everything up to scratch and 

406
00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:26,680
have a certain standard. 
So I don't think the workload 

407
00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:29,560
changes that much in terms of 
like, you know what you've 

408
00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:33,400
actually got to do, but your 
time does and your inability to 

409
00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:35,200
do it. 
I just want to put out there 

410
00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:41,520
right now that I think the the 
difference in workload and what 

411
00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:45,800
the job is actually like from 
school to school is insane. 

412
00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:48,320
And, and, and we've mentioned it
before, but we don't talk about 

413
00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:51,800
enough because it's not just 
about how big the school is, 

414
00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:53,520
it's about your leadership and 
your management and what's 

415
00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:55,920
acceptable as well. 
Because I've worked in and seen,

416
00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:59,320
you know, four form entry 
schools, huge schools where you 

417
00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:01,720
know, the, the option is there 
where you can share planning. 

418
00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:05,760
And I've seen the same huge 
schools who say, no, sorry, 

419
00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:07,560
you're not allowed to share 
planning because it's not good 

420
00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:09,560
for you need to have individual 
things for your class and then 

421
00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:11,760
sharing planning is banned and 
you're not allowed to do it. 

422
00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:13,960
And you end up with a very 
similar workload to A1 form 

423
00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:18,400
entry school. 
It's insanely and it's just, I 

424
00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:20,800
don't know where you want to 
talk more about what we've seen 

425
00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:23,560
in terms of literally schools 
that are like 2 streets away 

426
00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:25,240
from each other. 
You can have a completely 

427
00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:27,400
different life as a teacher just
because of your. 

428
00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:29,200
Environment, I mean, yeah, like 
I like I said, I kind of 

429
00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:32,600
experienced that for a bit. 
And I will say when I left that 

430
00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:36,560
one momentary school after one 
year, I did genuinely say to 

431
00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:40,000
myself, I will never in my whole
career ever work in A1 

432
00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,360
elementary school again. 
That's how difficult I found 

433
00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:45,640
that and, and ultimately there 
are loads of 1 momentary schools

434
00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:46,640
and someone's got to work in 
them. 

435
00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:48,440
That's what I was just going to 
say, like someone's got to work 

436
00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:49,440
in them. 
It's not going to be me, but 

437
00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:51,320
someone's got to do it. 
And what should they just get? 

438
00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:53,080
They just. 
The same amount of money they 

439
00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:55,360
just get. 
The same pay and they just like 

440
00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,280
by default, it's not that the 
school could do something and 

441
00:16:58,280 --> 00:16:59,880
then by default they are doing 
more work. 

442
00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:02,600
But you said some, some jobs in 
schools don't scale. 

443
00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:05,599
No, there's no scalability. 
It's like the history lead is 

444
00:17:05,599 --> 00:17:08,200
the history lead. 
If you have 500 members of staff

445
00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:12,440
or 4, like someone's the history
lead in the 500 school, you 

446
00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:14,720
might be able to share that out.
But in the in the when you scale

447
00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:16,520
down, someone's still got to be 
the history lead. 

448
00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:18,440
It doesn't it, it gets to a 
minimum point, doesn't it, where

449
00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:20,040
it's like someone still, like 
you said, someone still has to 

450
00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:21,359
know all of the things. 
Yeah, exactly. 

451
00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:24,599
And what, what, and are. 
Just and are less able to share 

452
00:17:24,599 --> 00:17:26,119
it. 
Yeah, it's just mad. 

453
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,520
It's just mad when you think 
about it and it's, it's a big 

454
00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:31,160
thing I think in teaching in 
general. 

455
00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:34,680
It's just slept on the the 
differences people talk about. 

456
00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,280
And what kind of gets me up a 
bit is when we talk about stuff,

457
00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,880
a lot of people seem really 
incapable of understanding a 

458
00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:43,320
point of view that's different 
to theirs that they've not 

459
00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:45,560
experienced. 
So if people haven't experienced

460
00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:48,320
being in A1 momentary school 
before, some people can 

461
00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:49,840
empathise with it and try and 
understand it. 

462
00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:51,400
Some people literally just don't
get it. 

463
00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:52,880
They're just like, well, in my 
school it's fine. 

464
00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:54,520
Yeah. 
It's like, yeah, OK, we could 

465
00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:56,560
list 4 things that's different 
in your school as to why it's 

466
00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:58,840
fine, but that what they want to
do is wear it as a badge of 

467
00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:00,760
honour. 
Like guys, I don't do any work 

468
00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:02,920
outside the school. 
Look at me, aren't I the best 

469
00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:05,080
thing since sliced bread? 
You know what? 

470
00:18:05,120 --> 00:18:07,280
So I would be the same if I was 
in your situation. 

471
00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:10,760
Congratulations. 
These people, although we've 

472
00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,840
talked about martyrs before and 
people who love to love to wear 

473
00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:15,400
the badge of honour of the other
way around. 

474
00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:17,560
Of I do so much work, aren't I 
the best person? 

475
00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:20,240
Oh, woe is me, aren't I the 
aren't I someone who should be? 

476
00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:21,480
Oh, I do so much stuff. 
I. 

477
00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:25,360
Never see my family. 
OK, why is that great? 

478
00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:28,400
Like there are some people like 
that, sure, but there are a lot 

479
00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:32,520
more people who are reluctant in
that situation who just, you 

480
00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:36,120
know, oh, I need a job and my 
local school is not even one 

481
00:18:36,120 --> 00:18:38,440
form entry. 
Maybe is, you know, mixed 

482
00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:41,440
classes. 
I'm year 5-6 head of maths and 

483
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:42,720
English and I've, it's like, 
yeah. 

484
00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:46,560
What do you mean? 
Like that job is incomparable 

485
00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:48,440
to. 
If I look back at my role in the

486
00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:50,480
fourth elementary school, when I
first started as a year 4 

487
00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:53,320
teacher, part of a maths hub, I 
wasn't even needing maths. 

488
00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:58,000
I was just part of a maths hub. 
I taught year 4 in a, in a with 

489
00:18:58,000 --> 00:18:59,480
three other teachers and we 
share planning. 

490
00:18:59,960 --> 00:19:03,360
Yeah, incomparable to what I've 
just described there. 

491
00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:05,560
And I think, you know, I think 
this person's absolutely right. 

492
00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:07,280
They said just wonder if you 
could like dive into this and 

493
00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:09,760
discuss this. 
I think it's massive and the 

494
00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:11,600
more people who understand it, 
the better. 

495
00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:13,640
In my opinion. 
Your school is not the be all 

496
00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:15,800
and end all. 
And you know, we've worked in 

497
00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:18,800
different schools and I've seen 
different lots of workload and 

498
00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:21,040
it just increases probability 
being a small school. 

499
00:19:21,120 --> 00:19:25,160
However, however, go on, in that
school, the 4th momentary school

500
00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:27,560
was the worst workload we've 
ever had, right? 

501
00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:30,240
So like going to that next. 
So that's interesting. 

502
00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:33,000
I think we did start off by 
saying I know I finished off, 

503
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:34,680
then by saying it increases the 
probability. 

504
00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,160
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
But I think there's lots of 

505
00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:39,160
factors that go into it. 
Definitely because I also try to

506
00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:41,800
start by saying it because that 
was very, that was very like 

507
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,920
rage bait comment there. 
I've also worked in and know 

508
00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:47,200
lots of people that have worked 
in like 4 elementary schools 

509
00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:49,680
where the workload is genuinely 
amazing and they can actually go

510
00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:52,240
home at like 4:00 every day 
because they properly optimise 

511
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:54,800
the fact that there's loads of 
people able to do one job right 

512
00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:55,560
and they share it. 
Probably. 

513
00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:58,080
We work, unfortunately in a 
school where though we actually 

514
00:19:58,360 --> 00:20:01,800
initially, yeah, yeah, initially
a long time ago where we had the

515
00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,280
privilege of being able to share
planning and, you know, take 

516
00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:06,200
advantage of the fact there's 
lots of members of staff and you

517
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:07,680
don't, you know, doing one job 
essentially. 

518
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,560
But it just got filled with 
other, other nonsense as well. 

519
00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:13,160
Like so, our workloads still got
increased and massively. 

520
00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:16,800
Probably in a way or it's like 
in A1 momentary school, the 

521
00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:19,000
stuff that happened to us in 
that school would absolutely 

522
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,080
never happen because there 
literally isn't any time left 

523
00:20:21,360 --> 00:20:24,080
that in A1 momentary school, our
time would have been completely 

524
00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:26,960
consumed by the fact that we're 
subject leads and planning and 

525
00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:28,480
they just they wouldn't even it 
would have been laughed out the 

526
00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:31,200
room if they tried to bring in 
some of the initiatives from our

527
00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:32,560
foreman school. 
It would have been like wet. 

528
00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:34,880
Seriously. 
Wait I'm already working here 

529
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:36,720
till 6:00 everyday just doing 
the bare minimum. 

530
00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:38,280
I'm taking my maths lesson. 
Tomorrow. 

531
00:20:38,360 --> 00:20:39,480
Would you? 
Of course I'm not. 

532
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:40,520
Going to I can't do an 
involvement. 

533
00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:42,280
Stick up. 
Of course, I'm not going to do 

534
00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:44,320
that. 
So it's interesting how some 

535
00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:49,080
schools can still, despite 
having the better situation, 

536
00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:52,160
still just put a burden on their
staff of well, we know it. 

537
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:53,720
We know your work life could be 
great here. 

538
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:56,880
But yeah, we thought of 17 other
things you can do instead at. 

539
00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:00,000
Least you're not in A1 form 
School A, so why don't you do 

540
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:01,920
all this extra stuff as well? 
It's like, OK, it's how 

541
00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:03,360
leadership reacts to that 
opportunity. 

542
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:05,240
There's some leadership in very 
small schools. 

543
00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:06,800
Do you know what? 
Being a leader in a small 

544
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,400
school, I don't know how you do 
that. 

545
00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:13,240
Like because there's a certain 
level, there's a certain amount 

546
00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,320
of work you need from your 
staff, which automatically puts 

547
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:18,560
your staff in a high workload 
bracket because there's just few

548
00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:20,840
of them. 
And as a leader, like how do you

549
00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:22,840
go about that? 
Like I'd have, I'd have to be 

550
00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:27,480
saying things like, please don't
read, please be adaptable, use, 

551
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:29,960
use lessons that are already 
there, change things on the 

552
00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,360
spot. 
That's how I dealt with workload

553
00:21:32,360 --> 00:21:36,040
personally was I would spend as 
my career went on, I spent less 

554
00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:40,000
and less time planning 
meticulously, more and more time

555
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:41,400
just thinking, right, this is my
long term plan. 

556
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:43,320
What am I doing today? 
Here's a couple of sheets from 

557
00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:45,280
like literally from the year 
before and the year before and 

558
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:47,920
the year before, because guess 
what I'm still doing adding 

559
00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:49,320
fractions with different 
denominators. 

560
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:50,960
It's I've still got to get the 
kids to do the same thing. 

561
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,280
But on the spot, I'd adapt and 
I'd go off tangent and I'd go on

562
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:56,560
my whiteboard and I'd react to 
the kids and I'd make a group. 

563
00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:00,040
That's where I earn my salt. 
That's where I could trade my 

564
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,400
literal physical time with my 
expertise. 

565
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,800
And and that was how I found 
myself saving workload. 

566
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,840
And I think as a leader, if you 
can try and translate that to 

567
00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,800
your staff and give them the 
trust they need, it can help 

568
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:15,080
reduce workload and it can at 
least do something to take a 

569
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:18,800
little hit at when it's unfairly
balanced like in a small school.

570
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:20,400
Yeah, definitely. 
It's a tricky position for a 

571
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:21,280
leader. 
Isn't it really hard? 

572
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,160
Because it'll be very easy to 
come across as toxic leader when

573
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,360
you know you've got six members 
of staff working for you, you've

574
00:22:26,360 --> 00:22:29,320
got 12 subjects that need to be 
divvied out, and it's like, what

575
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:30,320
do you do? 
What do I do? 

576
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:32,360
Like they have to exist. 
Yeah, the system is. 

577
00:22:32,360 --> 00:22:33,720
The system's broken. 
Horrendous. 

578
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:35,080
They're absolutely. 
Interesting to hear. 

579
00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:37,200
I reckon there's some leader 
that have thought of very 

580
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:39,800
creative ways of making sure 
that. 

581
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:44,160
Give one person 12 ruin, ruin 
one persons life for the benefit

582
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:46,120
of the night. 
That one person you don't have 

583
00:22:46,120 --> 00:22:48,720
to teach. 
You're just sorry. 

584
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:50,320
No, I've just checked the 
budget. 

585
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:52,120
You have to teach you. 
Have to teach as well. 

586
00:22:52,120 --> 00:22:53,640
Sorry. 
It was like, sorry guys, sorry 

587
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:54,520
guys. 
Right. 

588
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:58,240
Next question, is it the 
expectation of Hltas higher 

589
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,360
level teaching assistants to do 
lots of planning for the cover 

590
00:23:01,360 --> 00:23:03,120
periods that they are required 
to do? 

591
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,760
I think in some schools it is it
shouldn't be right. 

592
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,200
It absolutely should not be so 
quite expectation. 

593
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,200
Can you just? 
Explain what for people who are 

594
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:12,680
listening, thinking what on 
earth you talking about? 

595
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:16,520
What is a Hltas role? 
What do they often do and how 

596
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:19,000
can that be technical? 
So, so obviously you've got your

597
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,800
Tasmania in class. 
HLTAS are quite often expected 

598
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:23,840
to be the ones that that cover 
falls back to. 

599
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,840
So if a teacher isn't available 
for whatever reason, cover is 

600
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,360
needed for that class. 
Normally the first port of call 

601
00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:31,360
in a school where they don't 
just get in supply all the time 

602
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,520
is to go to HLTAS. 
So HLTAS, can you cover this 

603
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:35,560
session? 
Oh yeah, brilliant. 

604
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:37,360
So that that overrides. 
You're not going to be a TA in 

605
00:23:37,360 --> 00:23:39,280
that classroom today. 
You're going to go and cover 

606
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,760
this teacher over here instead. 
So that is essentially the role.

607
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,520
And in those situations, very 
often planning doesn't really 

608
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:47,920
come into it because it might be
that the teachers called in sick

609
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:50,080
that morning. 
Exactly 99% of the time in my 

610
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:51,480
career, planning was, was a week
ahead. 

611
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:52,920
You know what I mean? 
You've already got it on there. 

612
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:55,040
You've got a partner teacher. 
There's there's no expectation 

613
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:58,800
of planning in that regard. 
But also what HRT as are used 

614
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:03,080
for very often is systemic 
covering, not just fill in the 

615
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,480
gaps when you can. 
Are we can't get a supply 

616
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:07,880
teacher in today, guys, sorry. 
We'll just have to use your you 

617
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:11,800
as a oh, it's cheaper. 
Who would have thought it some 

618
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:13,480
money as well? 
Isn't that definitely not a 

619
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,040
reason I'm actually doing this 
and getting an HLTA to cover, 

620
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:17,640
right? 
Yeah, and not bothering to go to

621
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:19,440
supply. 
There is also. 

622
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,560
I've worked Hltas who, for 
example, always do a Wednesday 

623
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:24,920
afternoon in the class. 
Sure, maybe that class teacher 

624
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,480
is also the year group leader 
and gets an afternoon out every 

625
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:28,800
week to do the year group leader
duties. 

626
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:32,640
Yep, potentially that cover 
supervisor HLTA is going in to 

627
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,400
cover ECT time for a newly 
qualified teacher. 

628
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,880
For example, when I was an INKT,
I had Mrs Laffey would come in 

629
00:24:39,120 --> 00:24:42,240
every Friday afternoon and would
do a lesson with my class that 

630
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:43,240
afternoon. 
Exactly the same. 

631
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:48,000
Now in those situations, quite 
often it is actually expected 

632
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,560
and put onto the HLT as to plan 
the lesson. 

633
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:55,920
And what I've seen in my career 
in all ways was that the HLTA is

634
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:57,880
also expected to mark 
afterwards. 

635
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:00,360
Yeah, and I've got huge problems
with both. 

636
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:05,800
I I think that it should not be 
the expectation that you have to

637
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:07,360
do either of those things. 
What do you think? 

638
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:09,280
I, I think so as well. 
I want to get into your brain a 

639
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:10,800
bit more because that's my gut 
feeling. 

640
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:11,720
I want to know what you're 
thinking. 

641
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:15,760
So do you think there's no 
situation where ATA or HRTA 

642
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,640
should be expected to plan a 
mark? 

643
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,360
No. 
I personally don't think so, no,

644
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:22,800
unless you're going to 
compensate them for. 

645
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:24,440
It do you separate plan a mark 
at all or are they? 

646
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,400
Very much no. 
I, I, I literally for me, I 

647
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:29,960
separate time spent doing the 
job, time outside of the job. 

648
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,600
Yeah, right. 
When are you planning? 

649
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,440
When's that TA planning? 
Yeah, well, it's certainly not 

650
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,320
on PPA because they don't get 
PPA and it shouldn't be outside 

651
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,080
of their contracted hours 
because unlike a teacher where 

652
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:43,520
part of our literal contract 
says we have to do additional 

653
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,560
hours to our director time which
we can talk about whether that's

654
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,480
right or wrong, that does not 
exist for HLTA. 

655
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,720
So it's very simple for me. 
Is it within the bounds of your 

656
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:55,440
contract, yes or no? 
Delivering the lesson? 

657
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:57,480
Yes. 
Well, they get a supplement for 

658
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,000
delivering the lesson. 
Barely anything like a pound 

659
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:01,520
extra. 
And that's to deliver the 

660
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:02,640
lesson. 
Yeah. 

661
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:04,120
Yeah. 
If that's if that becomes from 

662
00:26:04,120 --> 00:26:05,720
marking and planning as well, it
might as well. 

663
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:06,920
It literally isn't worth the 
money. 

664
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:08,320
Like the paper it's written on. 
Yeah, of course not. 

665
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,280
So I, I very strongly think that
it comes down to simply is it 

666
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,560
within your contract? 
And if you are constantly 

667
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,920
expected to plan your lessons, I
think you should be building the

668
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:18,280
school for that time. 
Definitely. 

669
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:20,960
You, well, you, you're not being
compensated for it at all. 

670
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,680
And I strongly believe, and I 
said this to every single 

671
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:27,080
person, I don't know know what 
you did in my whole career when 

672
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:30,600
someone covered me and and like,
for example, I'd come back after

673
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:32,760
school, maybe I'd be in a 
meeting and I come back after 

674
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,520
the kids are gone and I see my 
teaching assistant, my HLTA, 

675
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,600
marking the books. 
I'd say please go home right 

676
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:40,880
now. 
It is the end of your contract. 

677
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:42,680
You're doing this for literally 
nothing. 

678
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,680
Even I sometimes resent marking.
And I'm literally paid to do a 

679
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:47,840
bit of extra outside. 
You're not paid anything. 

680
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:49,240
Go home now. 
Yeah, yeah. 

681
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:50,840
And they'd go, oh, no, it's 
fine, it's fine. 

682
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,280
And sometimes they'd want to do 
it and OK, wait, crack on then. 

683
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,080
I kind of like linger around the
corner and just wait till I can 

684
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:57,160
see. 
I'd do virtual signalling. 

685
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:58,360
I'd wait till they're on the 
last book. 

686
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:00,480
On the last book. 
Every time it's half four. 

687
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:02,840
I've been there since 4:00. 
Bloody. 

688
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,080
I'll hurry up. 
Last four o'clock watching reels

689
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,040
on my phone peek around the 
corner. 

690
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:11,440
Oh, have you, you bloody mark? 
I told you last time not to mark

691
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:13,240
on the last book. 
Just finish that one. 

692
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:16,360
Go off, go on, go home. 
Hello. 

693
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:18,720
Hello. 
No, I'll tell you what one thing

694
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:22,680
because I'm because in all 
honesty, most like if the school

695
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,080
says they've got to mark, we can
disagree with that at the end of

696
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,040
the day that they're obviously 
probably thinking the head 

697
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:28,880
teacher that gets to decide 
that's not you and they'll be 

698
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:30,680
thanks for saying that, but I am
going to mark them because. 

699
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:32,280
I literally have to. 
But you know what I'd say? 

700
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:33,800
Always said to that. 
I'll mark them, don't worry. 

701
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:35,080
Yeah, yeah, sure. 
And then and then. 

702
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,560
I wouldn't. 
Market when the comes round, it 

703
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:40,000
says. 
Bloody, bloody cover. 

704
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:41,840
Honestly, the TA. 
Again. 

705
00:27:42,360 --> 00:27:44,320
Rubbish at marketing. 
I said you got a market. 

706
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:48,040
She was like, no, honestly. 
One to the butts yeah well we 

707
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:50,440
had I think I don't if it was 
school policies to be fair, if 

708
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:52,080
it was just in year 6, we just 
did this. 

709
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,960
But whenever they covered I 
literally it was just normal 

710
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:57,640
that they didn't really market 
anyway. 

711
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,160
They just kind of put in a thing
that said covered by TA and then

712
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,240
it was sort of like a nod 
towards if anyone does look at 

713
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:05,840
the books, are you really going 
to argue yeah or it was that was

714
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:07,400
taught by ATA. 
Do you want them to go back and 

715
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:08,640
market and pay them for it or 
not? 

716
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:10,440
Best best version I think of it 
is that. 

717
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:12,680
Probably because that took them 
honestly 5 minutes. 

718
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,240
And I would always say again, 
I'm not in the school anymore, 

719
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,680
so I don't in any school. 
So whatever I'd say to them in 

720
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:19,440
the lesson, just go and put a 
little tick, yeah. 

721
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:22,720
Then it's done it. 
Don't even read it because you 

722
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:24,880
know what markings a waste of 
time most of the time. 

723
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:26,800
Even for me, it's the literal 
teacher who sees them every day.

724
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:28,840
Yeah. 
So yeah, and the only benefit I 

725
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:30,560
get out of marking it is because
I'm the teacher that sees them 

726
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:31,480
every day. 
Exactly. 

727
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:33,360
You're the CA who's not going to
be teaching them now for another

728
00:28:33,360 --> 00:28:35,040
three weeks. 
So there's literally no benefit 

729
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:36,840
to you marking these books 
because you're not even going to

730
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:38,560
give them the feedback. 
But I'll stand by, look at the 

731
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:40,560
book and look at them to see 
your techniques to the work. 

732
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,320
Oh well, they can look at all 
the other pages filled with my 

733
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,800
markings go over and they won't 
look anyway because they don't 

734
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:48,560
care. 
They don't care. 

735
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,400
Making art problems that just 
don't exist. 

736
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:55,200
So yeah, HLT as should not be by
default, should not be planning,

737
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,280
should not be marking. 
If you work in a school where 

738
00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,880
that's happening, maybe, maybe 
they're getting paid for it and 

739
00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:01,040
that part of the deal. 
I don't know. 

740
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,160
Probably not though. 
OK no great next question. 

741
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:06,880
I am a Teach First trainee in my
first year. 

742
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:08,840
Just found out my school is 
closing. 

743
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:10,960
Just my luck. 
So I'm applying for loads of 

744
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:15,360
jobs for ECT one for September. 
Any top tips for interviews, 

745
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,720
especially how to prep to be 
observed while teaching a random

746
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:22,200
class would be much appreciated.
Love the podcast, I listen to it

747
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,640
in the mornings while prepping 
resources and always gives me a 

748
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:26,400
giggle. 
It's actually quite funny. 

749
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:28,680
Yeah, my favourite quote. 
Yeah, actually quite funny. 

750
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,040
That's in our Instagram bio we 
had the other day that we 

751
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:32,200
mentioned. 
Love it. 

752
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:34,240
Oh, I mean that does. 
I do really feel sorry for this 

753
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,720
person because like at the end 
of the day they probably thought

754
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,560
at least I've got this secure I 
cannot have to worry about. 

755
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:42,600
Getting the whole point to Teach
First is that you're in the 

756
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,160
school, you're ready, you can. 
So man, that really that is 

757
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:46,360
frustrating. 
Big time. 

758
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,760
But in terms of tips, I mean, I 
don't know if you listened to 

759
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:52,520
our episode recently, but learn 
from my mistakes of where I went

760
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,080
to do interviews and I was 
trying to be too flashy almost. 

761
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:57,640
It was, it was ridiculous. 
Like looking back, I kind of 

762
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:02,680
wish I had just done a pretty 
standard like lesson, but just 

763
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,320
really try to show my other 
skills through teaching. 

764
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:06,880
Absolutely. 
I think now about like what I'd 

765
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,920
look for if I was looking for a 
teacher in my made-up school. 

766
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,320
In my head really I'm I want 
them to be in front of the kids 

767
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,040
because I just literally I want 
to see how they interact with 

768
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:16,160
them. 
I want to see how they adapt on 

769
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,520
the spot, how they interact with
the children. 

770
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,640
Just general things like that. 
I would probably the lowest on 

771
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,280
my list would be how have they 
resourced the lesson? 

772
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:26,400
Maybe, maybe it's not for other 
people, but for me personally 

773
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:27,320
I'd be like. 
No, I'm with you. 

774
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:28,600
Because resources have 10 a 
penny. 

775
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:29,960
Yeah. 
And loads of scores now give out

776
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:31,920
schemes and hit, you know, 
literally the thing about maths 

777
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:33,720
in our school, we were like, 
well, here's a bunch of stuff. 

778
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:35,520
Yeah, but you're the teacher. 
Go off and do it. 

779
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:38,800
Like it's more about the vibe. 
Yeah, definitely. 

780
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:40,760
And vibe. 
Vibe sounds ridiculous, but I 

781
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:42,360
mean, vibe in a very 
professional way. 

782
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:44,800
Yeah. 
As in how you are with the kids,

783
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:46,640
Right, 100%. 
So if you were, if you were 

784
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,920
hiring someone, what is the, 
what is the one thing you'd look

785
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:51,160
for just to try and give this 
person? 

786
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,000
Like if you had to pick one 
thing, you were like, do you 

787
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:54,760
know what? 
I'm not saying the other stuff 

788
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,680
is unimportant, but I'm sat 
here, you're in front of the 

789
00:30:57,680 --> 00:30:59,000
class. 
There's a group of 30 kids 

790
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:00,440
you've never seen before. 
Yep. 

791
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,080
What you're looking for? 
How quickly can they captivate 

792
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:05,920
the children? 
As in, just have all the 

793
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:07,600
children really interested in 
what you're saying. 

794
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:09,920
Is it their fault if they can't 
do that with a class they've 

795
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:12,400
never seen before and they're a 
brand new training teacher? 

796
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:16,280
Because I, I like, I, I can 
imagine there's a lot of really,

797
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:19,560
really good and newer teachers 
who might struggle with that 

798
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:21,920
and, and experienced teachers 
who might walk in and actually 

799
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:22,800
struggle with that straight 
away. 

800
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:25,040
Do you think? 
Yeah, because I think captivate,

801
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:27,640
it depends what you mean by 
that, because I think it can be 

802
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,240
tricky to captivate a class even
when you're 567 years in. 

803
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:34,000
And I think you can, if you're 
judging someone on that, you 

804
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,320
might be judging them based on 
the actions of the kids in front

805
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:38,080
of them, which is not fair on 
them necessarily. 

806
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,600
How they react to it maybe? 
Yeah, I guess it's all 

807
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:41,640
proportionate, isn't it? 
You're right. 

808
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,240
It's in terms of how you act. 
I think if, you know, it's a 

809
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,680
tricky class as the person who's
like doing the observation, then

810
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,080
you can factor that in. 
There will still be differences,

811
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,400
I think, in how people literally
act in front of the children and

812
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,240
it will yield different results.
So whatever that scale is in 

813
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,200
terms of how those results yield
differently, I'd be looking for 

814
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,200
the teacher who most 
effectively, even if it's 1%, 

815
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:03,800
because, you know, the classes, 
they're just horrendous and they

816
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:05,560
don't want to listen to anyone. 
Anything he says. 

817
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:10,040
I'd be looking for the teacher 
still or for me, who engages 

818
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:11,880
those kids the most, who gets 
the kids the most interested 

819
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:13,560
through their personality, 
through the way they speak, 

820
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:16,120
their intonation, the stuff that
you bring to the table in terms 

821
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,480
of like, wow, the children to 
want to be in that room, like. 

822
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:22,600
And I totally appreciate the 
fact that that can massively 

823
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:23,560
change depending on the 
children. 

824
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:25,000
But like I said, it's in 
proportion though. 

825
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:26,720
Yeah, Yeah, sure. 
If you're comparing 5 different 

826
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:29,360
interviewees, I'd be looking for
the one that does that the most.

827
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:30,720
Yeah. 
No, definitely. 

828
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:31,560
I'd take that. 
What about you? 

829
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:32,960
I, I, I? 
Well, the thing I don't know, 

830
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:37,080
the thing I'd look for more is 
that I'd be looking at their 

831
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:41,880
nature, their calmness that, you
know, it's easy to flap again in

832
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:43,280
an interview and worry about 
stuff. 

833
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,120
And at the end of the day, 
you've got to understand that it

834
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:49,120
is just a 10 minute snippet of 
what is potentially like a 

835
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:50,480
really important thing for that 
person. 

836
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:54,120
So as, as someone you know, in 
that interview looking, I 

837
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,720
wouldn't be judging them harshly
on things that I think could be 

838
00:32:57,720 --> 00:32:59,880
explained for the fact it's a 10
minute interview and they're 

839
00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:02,080
trying to get a job. 
I'd be looking for stuff like 

840
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:03,880
deeper than that. 
And it's literally like, you 

841
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:07,520
know, how they interact with the
children, whether that's because

842
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,360
they're telling someone if, if 
someone's being noisy or loud or

843
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,400
not captivated, that in itself 
doesn't actually bother me. 

844
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:16,080
It's what the teacher does to 
react to that. 

845
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:19,000
It's whether they think that 
that's OK and then crack on and 

846
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,080
whatever. 
Or if they maybe have a quiet 

847
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:23,680
word with the person or maybe 
they're having a talk with that 

848
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:26,080
person over there. 
It's hard to build that in 10 

849
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:28,080
minutes. 
But I think the way you try and 

850
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:29,600
do it at least is what I'd be 
looking for. 

851
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,680
And I think the other bit of 
advice I'd say directly to this 

852
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:38,160
person who's doing interviews is
please don't try and deliver the

853
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,040
best lesson of your life in this
interview. 

854
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,720
Yeah, it's true. 
But in doing that, you're 

855
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,120
setting yourself up to fail and 
you'll probably over plan 

856
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:50,040
massively because what you need 
to demonstrate is you as an 

857
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:52,640
individual, the actual lesson 
itself. 

858
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:53,560
You know what? 
You're people. 

859
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:57,320
I see people all the time saying
what task can I do for, for 

860
00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,680
multiplying fractions that's 
really interactive and shows off

861
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:02,600
a really good understanding. 
And I'm like, OK, that's a nice,

862
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:04,120
lovely question. 
And it's great you're thinking 

863
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,040
about that. 
And the task you give does need 

864
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,880
to be good, but you've literally
never taught these kids before 

865
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:10,800
and you need to make a lot of 
assumptions on their previous 

866
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:14,239
knowledge. 
Do something quite basic, have a

867
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:17,440
high ceiling, so low threshold, 
high ceiling, whatever it's 

868
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,840
called where everyone can do it 
but those who are good can 

869
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:21,920
really excel. 
Yep. 

870
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:24,760
Like writing tasks are really 
good for that in English. 

871
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,360
If it comes to maths it could be
some kind of investigation. 

872
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:30,440
Just create an environment where
everyone can have a go and then 

873
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:32,719
you can show off how you can 
foster your understanding of 

874
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,679
children and quickly pick up on 
things and support that child or

875
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:37,800
tell that child to make sure 
they're paying attention and 

876
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:39,840
why. 
Make sure it's a task that 

877
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:41,719
allows you to show off. 
Definitely shows off your 

878
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:43,199
nature, but you said complete 
your nature. 

879
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:45,639
I think that's very similar to 
what I was thinking, to be fair,

880
00:34:45,639 --> 00:34:47,440
in terms when I was saying how 
you can captivate them. 

881
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:48,600
I was kind of thinking the same 
thing. 

882
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:52,239
How how quickly can you use your
ability and your nature and your

883
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:53,520
ACT? 
Because it's all an act, really 

884
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:57,200
with children, to show the 
interviewer that you're really 

885
00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,000
good in a classroom with kids, 
genuinely like. 

886
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:01,560
I think what you said is, is. 
I do genuinely think you meant 

887
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:03,960
the same thing. 
The way it's phrased sometimes 

888
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,800
is, it's phrased as I'm looking 
at the kids to see if they're 

889
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,680
engaged because like, I'm going 
to judge you based on how 

890
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:13,240
engaged these kids are. 
I, I, I, all I'm saying is with 

891
00:35:13,240 --> 00:35:15,680
that, I'm like, oh, that's, 
you're going to miss the mark 

892
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:19,120
there quite a lot. 
Whereas if you frame it instead 

893
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,920
as I'm going to look to see how 
the teacher reacts to the class 

894
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:25,840
and whether the class are 
immediately engaged or not, OK, 

895
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,000
that can change because you do a
great lesson later or you can do

896
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,440
a worse lesson. 
But what won't change is how you

897
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,040
react to situations. 
So I'd be looking at how the 

898
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,000
person reacts rather than how 
the kids are doing. 

899
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:36,920
And it's the same, it's exactly 
the same thing. 

900
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,400
But I think that framing is 
important and I think for the 

901
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,520
person doing the interview, 
remember they're there to see 

902
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,960
what you're like as a person. 
If something goes wrong, they're

903
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:46,880
not there to judge you on it 
going wrong. 

904
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,120
They're there to judge you on 
how do you react to it going 

905
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:51,240
wrong. 
And that is going to show your 

906
00:35:51,240 --> 00:35:53,480
best side. 
I've been in classroom before 

907
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:57,840
for my interview for my most 
recent school where I did a 

908
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,560
lesson and the Interactive 
Whiteboard didn't work. 

909
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:03,120
OK. 
And still to this day, I've not 

910
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:05,480
asked, but I still to this day 
at the back of my head think it 

911
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:10,320
was a purposeful unplugging to 
just see, just to see. 

912
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:12,600
I, I maybe, maybe I'm a 
conspiracy theorist here and I 

913
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:14,960
love the people at the school, 
but I, it's the kind of thing 

914
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:17,880
that I think actually, do you 
know what that's interesting to 

915
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:20,520
me as someone hiring? 
What when something goes because

916
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:23,400
something will go wrong in a 
perfect environment of an 

917
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:25,200
interview, OK, great. 
You can go. 

918
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,760
Well, that doesn't tell me much.
What tells me more about you is 

919
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:28,840
what happens when stuff goes 
wrong. 

920
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:31,680
So when I reacted, I just 
spinned it off and I was like, 

921
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:32,880
cool, we're just doing it on 
paper now. 

922
00:36:33,240 --> 00:36:35,320
That was probably a positive. 
Yeah, definitely. 

923
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,600
So I, I that's all I'm saying is
it's it's how you react to the 

924
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:40,040
situation. 
Don't be put off when things 

925
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:42,320
necessarily go wrong. 
Don't try and do too much at 

926
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:43,680
once. 
It's about you and the kids 

927
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:44,840
Keep. 
It relatively simple have a bit 

928
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:46,800
of a backup plan for stuff like 
that in your head of OK, what if

929
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:48,480
this doesn't go wrong? 
Because like when I had like I 

930
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,000
said before, when I had that 
lesson that I did on a that I 

931
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,360
needed a projector for, I 
planned the entire lesson around

932
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:55,240
this projector working all these
little bits of paper and stuff I

933
00:36:55,240 --> 00:36:57,400
was going to put on it and I 
just had no idea what to do when

934
00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:59,800
the projector didn't work. 
It wasn't I loved how we both 

935
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:02,560
had an experience of the like 
the big bit of temp in the room 

936
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:04,480
not working. 
I just didn't know what to do. 

937
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:05,600
I literally didn't know what to 
do. 

938
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:07,440
And that threw me off and I 
didn't get the job Like and I 

939
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:10,040
because I'd overplay. 
I'd spent so much time thinking 

940
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:13,160
about precisely this like 
perfect play in my head of what 

941
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:15,880
this lesson was going to be. 
Never once did I think about how

942
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,520
I'd adapt to the kids, how I'd 
approach certain things. 

943
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:20,800
It was just all to me about the 
resourcing and actually that was

944
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:22,120
the wrong way around. 
Absolutely for sure. 

945
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:24,280
Good question. 
OK, let's finish off. 

946
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:25,360
Go on. 
One last question all. 

947
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:26,960
Right. 
Do you want to read it? 

948
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:28,360
Or I go when you go. 
OK, thank you. 

949
00:37:28,720 --> 00:37:30,680
Quick maths question here and 
whilst you're on the subject of 

950
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,960
maths, you can book a free demo 
now for Mathsu helping 

951
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:35,520
arithmetic fluency in your 
school. 

952
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:37,840
Down below there's a link, we'll
show it to you for nothing. 

953
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:41,200
Book a time and we'll see how we
can help your school improve 

954
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:43,960
their arithmetic fluency. 
That's good, right? 

955
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:45,040
That was all right. 
Yeah. 

956
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:46,840
Fluent keep working. 
It was it a fluent 1? 

957
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:49,720
It was quite fluent fluid. 
Maths question What do you make 

958
00:37:49,720 --> 00:37:50,480
of maths? 
I'm joking. 

959
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:52,680
What do you make of wreck, 
Wreck, wreck, wreck, wreck, 

960
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,240
wreck, Wreck, Wreck, wreck, 
wreck, Wrecker, Wrecker, 

961
00:37:55,240 --> 00:37:58,320
Wrecker, wrecker a wreck, a 
wreck, a red neck, a wreck, a 

962
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:00,840
red neck, a wreck, a What do you
make of the wreck and a wreck? 

963
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:02,280
I can't make a head and or tail 
of them. 

964
00:38:03,240 --> 00:38:05,040
You're right, I'm just. 
A broken record. 

965
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:07,800
I got like stuck in a little 
wreck. 

966
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:10,080
Eminem over here. 
What? 

967
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:11,840
What's the? 
Wreck and wreck, cable wreck. 

968
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:15,640
They are those maths, maths good
they have right? 

969
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:18,880
OK, basically 5 red beads, 5 
white beads side by side, 2 

970
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:20,320
layers. 
So there's 20 beads all together

971
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:21,520
on high red wooden. 
Frame. 

972
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:23,040
Wooden frame. 
Like an Abacus, almost. 

973
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:24,280
Yeah, very, very sort of 
similar. 

974
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,600
I personally have never used 
them, but I do think it's 

975
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:32,680
because I see them generally as 
something for like much, much 

976
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:34,200
lower down. 
That's all for early numbers 

977
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:36,160
since. 
So like I imagine they're used a

978
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:38,840
lot in reception in year 1, 
maybe even year 2 as well. 

979
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:41,240
And that should probably be used
more probably. 

980
00:38:41,240 --> 00:38:43,880
Yeah, it's a really interesting 
question because I think there's

981
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:48,440
lots of manipulatives from apps 
out there that have a lot of 

982
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:50,320
overlap in terms of what they're
used for. 

983
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:53,440
Like you think of like A10 
frame, right? 

984
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:56,000
I think of A10 frame and reckon 
Rex, I'm like, OK, they're both 

985
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:58,400
kind of there for number sense. 
Like number monster 10 is like a

986
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,520
huge thing they're used for. 
Do I think you're a bad teacher 

987
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:03,000
if you only use one of them? 
No. 

988
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:06,000
Do I think it's it's might be 
good to use both? 

989
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:07,400
Yes, but like it's a small 
thing. 

990
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:09,720
So I don't think automatically 
if someone says what do you make

991
00:39:09,720 --> 00:39:10,600
of them? 
I can't make head or tail. 

992
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:12,400
I don't think that makes you a 
bad teacher because you're 

993
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,080
probably you're probably it's 
not like you're not addressing 

994
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:17,720
number bonds at all or you're 
not addressing how near double 

995
00:39:17,720 --> 00:39:18,720
S. 
So reckon Rex are really good 

996
00:39:18,720 --> 00:39:22,480
for things like because it's 
5:00 and 5:00 sabotizing so we 

997
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:25,640
can recognise 5 quite quickly. 
If you have 5 Reds and 1 white 

998
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:28,280
one, we can see that 6 and you 
can make the .1 more than 5 is 

999
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:30,640
6. 
If on both rows you have 5 and 

1000
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:34,200
1, five and one, you can very 
quickly be like, OK, two sixes. 

1001
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:36,080
How does that make 12? 
Well, it's two fives, which we 

1002
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:37,760
know makes 10 one and one makes 
12. 

1003
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:39,920
And you can really break down 
that like early, early number 

1004
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:41,760
sense. 
And it's fantastic for 

1005
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,640
foundations, right? 
But you can do that with other, 

1006
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,160
other things as well. 
I always think of a really good 

1007
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:51,200
comparison quiz and air rods. 
That was something that I know 

1008
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:53,720
when we trained we were like we 
were sold down. 

1009
00:39:53,720 --> 00:39:55,120
This thing of like quiz and air 
rods are the best. 

1010
00:39:55,240 --> 00:39:56,600
You could do everything with a 
quiz and air. 

1011
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,520
Everything look at the I can do 
ratio in year 6 all the way down

1012
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:01,800
to number bonds in year 1. 
And it was like, Oh my God. 

1013
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:05,280
It's the best thing ever. 
And really I used them a few 

1014
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:07,760
times like I didn't, I didn't 
use them religiously like I 

1015
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:10,280
thought I was going to because 
actually I found other resources

1016
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:12,720
that were doing the same. 
I was getting the same effect 

1017
00:40:12,720 --> 00:40:13,920
out of them. 
I just preferred using them. 

1018
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:18,080
So I think my summary here, and 
I'll let you come in at some 

1019
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:20,360
point is that what do I make of 
them? 

1020
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:22,040
I think they're a really, really
good resource. 

1021
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:24,920
And I do think you, if you're 
using them, you have to use them

1022
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:28,720
a lot to get like a really good 
bit of learning out of it. 

1023
00:40:28,720 --> 00:40:30,360
And if you're not using them, 
it's not a problem because 

1024
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:31,720
you're probably doing it with 
something else. 

1025
00:40:31,720 --> 00:40:36,320
If you're using quiz an air or 
or what they called the holes, I

1026
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:38,280
can't think, Oh my God, why? 
Can't I let you believe? 

1027
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:40,440
I think we struggle. 
Oh my God, why can't I think 

1028
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,920
what I called? 
No, no new new. 

1029
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:43,360
Macon. 
Oh my. 

1030
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:45,480
God. 
I could not think of that word. 

1031
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:47,200
Reckon Rex is like taking over 
my brain. 

1032
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:49,840
You can use new Macon. 
Reckon, reckon, reckon. 

1033
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:52,960
Counters where you flip over 10 
frames, numicon, all this stuff 

1034
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:54,160
is all really good. 
But. 

1035
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:57,920
I do generally find that 
teachers will stick to 1 and 

1036
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:00,280
they'll be like, I'm going to 
really use this in detail and 

1037
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:01,800
the kids can get used to this 
conceptually. 

1038
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:02,800
Is that good practise? 
Help me. 

1039
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:06,520
I, I think it's good practise to
dive into a resource. 

1040
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:09,360
I think it's bad practise to 
superficially use 5 resources. 

1041
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:12,120
Like if you use or if you use, 
you've got Recon out once a 

1042
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:14,600
month and you've got the Numicon
out once a month and the 

1043
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,000
Quizenaire out once a month. 
I'm like, I don't think that's 

1044
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:18,560
good practise. 
I think it's better practise to 

1045
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:22,120
really get into one and use that
resource thoroughly. 

1046
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:24,920
Doesn't mean you can't use 
others, but use at least one of 

1047
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:26,800
them thoroughly. 
Absolutely. 

1048
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,920
And I think you've summed that 
up nicely where the issue isn't,

1049
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:32,760
you know, you're not using wreck
and wreck. 

1050
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:34,240
So like, what on earth can you 
do? 

1051
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:36,600
The issue? 
The the issue is are you're not 

1052
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:39,000
using any resources at all to 
visualise number or understand 

1053
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:40,120
them. 
But like, if you're doing it, 

1054
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:42,800
you can do it in lots of ways. 
So if you can't make head in the

1055
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:44,760
tail, then fine. 
Do you know what I actually 

1056
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,640
think using a wreck and wreck 
without training right? 

1057
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:49,600
He's weirdly hearing you say it 
properly. 

1058
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:51,280
Or no, you're still not saying 
it properly. 

1059
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:52,320
Am I not? 
Wreck and wreck. 

1060
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:54,040
Wreck and wreck and wreck. 
You know you. 

1061
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:56,280
I think using one of them 
without training or 

1062
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:58,280
understanding it properly is 
worse than not using it at all. 

1063
00:41:58,280 --> 00:41:59,880
Yeah, almost definitely. 
So if you don't make head in the

1064
00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:01,440
tail of it, don't use it. 
A bit of training, watch a 

1065
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:02,880
video. 
Yeah, a bit of CPD. 

1066
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:04,760
Plenty of YouTube videos by the 
way if you just literally. 

1067
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:07,680
Search top dog tutoring loads 
don't think we. 

1068
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:10,080
Got on on that one we. 
Were in school the other day and

1069
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:11,640
someone goes. 
My son loves your videos. 

1070
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:14,360
But yeah. 
Oh I agree though, training is 

1071
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:16,040
very important. 
If you just get it out and guess

1072
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:18,080
how to use it, you're probably 
not using it to its fullest. 

1073
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:19,800
No for sure for. 
Sure, good. 

1074
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:22,480
Always love a maths question and
that's for sure, Hayden. 

1075
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:24,160
Very quickly, before we move on 
to the last question, what's 

1076
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:25,600
your favourite maths 
manipulative? 

1077
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:30,680
Place value counters. 
I just use them so much 

1078
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:33,680
interesting. 
Just love them, you Deans. 

1079
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:35,440
They oh. 
Can I change my heart? 

1080
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:36,640
No, too late. 
I want Deans. 

1081
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:39,160
I like them to all be the same 
size, even though they're 

1082
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:41,000
different. 
It's hard to Deans. 

1083
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,480
Deans are #1 can't change it. 
No. 

1084
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:45,560
All right, fair enough. 
You can't change it. 

1085
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:47,080
I'm just. 
I'm slightly more advanced than 

1086
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:47,320
you. 
That's. 

1087
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:49,160
You know it's also good as. 
Well, yeah, fine, I'll say that 

1088
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:52,440
I love using Deans all the way 
through and when in year 4 you 

1089
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,120
start doing temps and hundreds 
Deans are so good because the 

1090
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:56,560
100 what becomes one? 
Yeah, yeah. 

1091
00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:58,440
Because you've done it only, I 
mean, if you've done Deans for 

1092
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:00,600
so long, can the kids really 
wrap their head around the fact 

1093
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:02,720
that that's like, not just 100? 
Anymore not using it 

1094
00:43:02,720 --> 00:43:03,600
superficially. 
Exactly. 

1095
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:06,320
You've got to do it all the time
and but as soon as you get that 

1096
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:10,280
100 block out, not only is it 
great for decimals, even before 

1097
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:11,760
that, it's great for number 
bonds to 100. 

1098
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:14,000
Yeah. 
So 43 plus what is 100? 

1099
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:16,640
Get 100 block Dean in front of 
the kids, give them loads of 

1100
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:19,480
10's and ones getting to build 
43 and then count what's left. 

1101
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:22,960
Count in 10s, count in one. 
So good, so good. 

1102
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:24,200
Right. 
Last question. 

1103
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:26,440
This is about behaviour charts. 
So let me just give you this 

1104
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:28,600
very quickly. 
What do we feel about using 

1105
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:31,360
behaviour charts in class? 
My school is implementing 1 and 

1106
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:34,520
I feel like the I'm the only one
that's against it by maybe one 

1107
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:37,200
other member of SLT, but we're 
going along with it anyway. 

1108
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:39,560
I was running off the names to 
children it wouldn't work with 

1109
00:43:39,720 --> 00:43:41,840
and then a colleague said well 
what would you do instead? 

1110
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:44,360
I don't actually have a counter 
argument, but I just feel like 

1111
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:47,240
it's not good. 
Yeah, this is interesting. 

1112
00:43:47,240 --> 00:43:51,480
Me and you have spent our whole 
careers like not debating, but 

1113
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:54,240
just like maybe bickering 
slightly about whether we should

1114
00:43:54,240 --> 00:43:56,040
include behaviour charts. 
I kind of want to go to you 

1115
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:57,360
first, right, Because I'm 
thinking about this. 

1116
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:02,520
Do you do you think behaviour 
charts are generally not good 

1117
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:05,680
like we have at the front and 
it's just some sort of like 

1118
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:08,680
table to follow and kids names 
go up or whatever. 

1119
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:11,360
Like what's your opinion 
generally on behaviour charts? 

1120
00:44:11,720 --> 00:44:14,800
Negative behaviour charts can 
get in the bin, right? 

1121
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:18,360
That's my opinion yeah, I I 
think actively we shouldn't do 

1122
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:20,680
that. 
I have used in my career 

1123
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:24,760
constantly positive praise, 
right, positive affirmation and 

1124
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:26,960
that can be public displays of 
that as well. 

1125
00:44:27,240 --> 00:44:29,640
Even with a name on the board 
can be a huge carrot for a child

1126
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:32,800
to work hard, right. 
I understand even there'll be 

1127
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:35,120
some people who go to the INF 
degree there and say well in 

1128
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:37,240
doing a +1 you're implementing 
that. 

1129
00:44:37,240 --> 00:44:39,200
Everyone else is implying 
everyone else is negative. 

1130
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:40,840
I don't think it works like 
that, like. 

1131
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:43,080
There's a neutral. 
Ground surely I think so in 

1132
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:46,240
terms of I'm my my in my 
practise and I was always was 

1133
00:44:46,240 --> 00:44:49,520
very positive and praising 
people and I I liked, you know, 

1134
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:50,720
praising people for doing the 
right thing. 

1135
00:44:50,720 --> 00:44:53,200
That seemed to work for me and 
my class and the other children 

1136
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:55,120
who weren't necessarily paving 
well then. 

1137
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:58,560
Wanted to, but the schools we 
worked in though did have like a

1138
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:00,320
behaviour, some sort of 
behaviour system at least where 

1139
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:02,520
there was some sort of 
negativity in terms of names on 

1140
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:05,360
boards or yellow cards or ticks 
or whatever like. 

1141
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:07,960
Nonsense, though, they don't. 
You did use them though, didn't?

1142
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:08,520
You. 
They don't? 

1143
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:09,880
Well, eventually, no. 
Right. 

1144
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:12,840
Genuinely. 
Yeah, Yeah, yeah, honestly. 

1145
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:13,960
But eventually, no, I just 
didn't. 

1146
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:14,800
Do that. 
OK, that's interesting. 

1147
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:16,240
I just, I didn't know that 
because obviously I know we 

1148
00:45:16,240 --> 00:45:17,560
worked in the schools. 
I'm like, I know they exist. 

1149
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:19,640
So it's all right. 
I'm not a teacher there anymore.

1150
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:23,960
I, I, this is maybe where people
call me up for being hypocrite 

1151
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:25,960
because I do think consistency 
is really important. 

1152
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:33,120
But, you know, we didn't have to
like names on the board. 

1153
00:45:33,240 --> 00:45:36,800
I just didn't like personally. 
So it just got to the point in 

1154
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:38,760
my career where I thought, I 
think I can still implement the 

1155
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:41,920
behaviour policy and follow 
through of warnings that can be 

1156
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:45,120
verbal and individual and talk 
to the kids and then if they're 

1157
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:46,600
disrupting the class, they get 
sent out of the room. 

1158
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:49,680
Yeah, I get the idea of it being
on the board was always that 

1159
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:51,720
it's like a very visual marker 
for the child and they can see 

1160
00:45:51,720 --> 00:45:53,440
their names there and it's a 
reminder to them constantly. 

1161
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:56,720
I just personally felt that I 
knew my class well enough to 

1162
00:45:56,720 --> 00:45:59,280
know children who needed that 
reminder, and I would just 

1163
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:02,800
remind them personally and make 
sure that they were behaving. 

1164
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:05,160
I didn't see it as a net game 
for my kids, right? 

1165
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:08,040
Everything I choose to do always
with my classes because I think 

1166
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:09,320
it's better for the kids or not 
sure. 

1167
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:10,920
That's always where it comes 
from. 

1168
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:15,120
And it's not like, well, you 
know, that guy Dylan doesn't 

1169
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:16,760
believe in behaviour charts, so 
he doesn't do it. 

1170
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:18,920
It's like, well, no, I don't. 
I don't like behaviour charts 

1171
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:20,920
because I know it doesn't have a
positive impact on my class. 

1172
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:23,840
It always comes stems from that.
And that's the important thing. 

1173
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:27,640
I'd say I don't personally like 
negative behaviour charts on the

1174
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:29,080
wall. 
I don't like it. 

1175
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:31,160
Well, the first school is 
interesting because the first 

1176
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:33,640
school we worked at when we 
started there very much had a 

1177
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:36,280
pretty standard like names on 
board sort of thing for like 

1178
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:38,680
good things, but also for if you
want a warning, right? 

1179
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:40,520
And it was just very much you 
just write the name on the board

1180
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:45,120
next to a certain thing. 
And I remember because after a 

1181
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:47,560
while we got told to stop doing 
that. 

1182
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:49,000
And I remember thinking, why? 
Why stop doing this? 

1183
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:51,080
It's useful to know like for me 
even to keep track of like, 

1184
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:52,640
who's on the warning. 
So I had a particularly naughty 

1185
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:54,960
class and like 5 or 6 kids that 
would constantly be doing the 

1186
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:56,640
wrong thing and. 
They're constantly on the board,

1187
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:57,680
right? 
Yeah, constantly on. 

1188
00:46:57,680 --> 00:46:58,520
The board? 
Well, that's the point of. 

1189
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:00,520
Being on the board, I agree now,
like in retrospect, but I 

1190
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:02,880
remember at the time they were 
saying psychologically it's a 

1191
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:04,240
net loss. 
They were like, there is 

1192
00:47:04,240 --> 00:47:07,360
actually no, like there's no 
actual net win to having their 

1193
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:09,600
names on the board all the time.
And I was like, Oh yeah, I was 

1194
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:12,000
just so woke, so woke. 
I remember literally thinking, 

1195
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:13,440
this is so like, this is 
ridiculous. 

1196
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:17,200
It's gone too far. 
But I don't know, you know, I 

1197
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:20,680
still, there's still a part of 
me where I'm like, is it a bit 

1198
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:23,640
over the top? 
Like is it really that bad to 

1199
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:25,880
have a kid's name on the board? 
Like if it helps me keep track 

1200
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:27,120
of. 
Write down that and. 

1201
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:29,080
Some kids, some kids do react to
that. 

1202
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:30,520
I think, oh God, fine, I don't 
want my name on there. 

1203
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:32,080
Fine. 
And if some kids react to it, 

1204
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:34,120
then why not? 
Why not do it with that kid? 

1205
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:36,200
Yeah, well, that kids react to 
it, right? 

1206
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:37,920
And that's, that's what I, 
that's what I mean. 

1207
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:41,360
So I what do you value more? 
And I value consistency more. 

1208
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:45,000
So I consistently didn't do it 
because I, you know, I, I, it's 

1209
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:48,200
always about as it's not a 0 sum
game, there's going to be 

1210
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:50,480
negatives and positives and you 
have to decide which one's best 

1211
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:53,240
for your class, right? 
And I just found personally that

1212
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:56,600
from my career I did it for 
however long it didn't. 

1213
00:47:56,640 --> 00:48:00,560
It wasn't really a good thing to
constantly use my board as a 

1214
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:02,280
public display of good and bad 
behaviour. 

1215
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:02,960
Like shame. 
Yeah. 

1216
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:05,080
I didn't like it. 
I didn't like it because it kind

1217
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:08,600
of equated behaviour as well 
because you had to be 

1218
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:10,960
consistent. 
So if someone shouted out, they 

1219
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:13,440
put their name on the board and 
then someone else shouted out 

1220
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:15,480
and their name didn't go on the 
board because you went well, 

1221
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:17,480
actually I know what you're 
shouting out because you're over

1222
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:19,240
stimulated. 
You've got, I understand it's 

1223
00:48:19,240 --> 00:48:21,360
part of your, you know, your 
EHCP. 

1224
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:23,320
Or you just missed it but you're
not perfect. 

1225
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:25,400
Exactly, whatever it might be. 
And then there's a sense of 

1226
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:27,600
injustice suddenly in the class 
that I've created for doing 

1227
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:28,120
this. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

1228
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:30,680
It's like, you have to be so on 
it and perfect if you're going 

1229
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:31,920
to have that as your gold 
standard. 

1230
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:35,040
And I felt like I personally 
wasn't living up to that and it 

1231
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:36,480
was just causing more division 
in my class. 

1232
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:41,800
And behaviour through other 
systemic, consistent ways could 

1233
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:43,560
still be controlled. 
And it didn't necessarily mean 

1234
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:44,800
there was a behaviour chart in. 
The wall. 

1235
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:46,920
What do you think about 
individual behaviour charts? 

1236
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:50,160
Like when children, maybe that 
behaviour is particularly like 

1237
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:53,440
noted as particularly poor and 
sometimes people have like their

1238
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:55,720
own little child on their table.
It's just for them and like or 

1239
00:48:55,720 --> 00:48:57,200
or maybe they have to do like a 
report. 

1240
00:48:57,200 --> 00:48:58,960
I mean, like secondary school is
not quite common with that where

1241
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:00,880
it's like you're on report now 
kid, because you've been 

1242
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:02,400
naughty. 
You've got to get a little stamp

1243
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:04,240
in your thing every day to show 
that you've been behaving right.

1244
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:06,080
What do you think about those 
kind of individual systems? 

1245
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:09,840
Quick story on that my class was
put on report in in in secondary

1246
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:11,400
school class report my entire 
class. 

1247
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:13,680
That's like that's level bad. 
Because it was like the class 

1248
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:16,920
were awful and they wanted to 
choose someone sensible to carry

1249
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:18,280
the report card around. 
Or was it? 

1250
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:20,960
Who do you think they chose it? 
They chose me, right? 

1251
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:23,400
So I had a report card in my 
blazer. 

1252
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:26,840
I went to my nan's after school.
My mum came to pick me up, pick 

1253
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:29,280
my blazer up and oh, what's this
pink slip in your in your 

1254
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:30,520
pocket? 
No saw. 

1255
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:32,880
Thought I was on report. 
You got in trouble. 

1256
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:34,920
So I got it. 
I got bollocked by my mum. 

1257
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:37,200
Well, upset because I was like, 
they chose me. 

1258
00:49:37,240 --> 00:49:38,640
Yeah, I know. 
I'm looking. 

1259
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:39,840
I'll look. 
After you. 

1260
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:41,320
Ironically, I'm the only good 
one. 

1261
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:43,800
Yeah, literally. 
So I had it for the whole class.

1262
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:47,240
Yeah, and I was the pink report 
card and my mum went mental and 

1263
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:50,360
I was like, I like mid man. 
I was like, I need to wait for 

1264
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:52,960
you to finish to try to explain.
This Yeah, it's not actually me,

1265
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:55,320
mum, yeah, but it is my old 
class and I'm now the teacher's 

1266
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:57,440
pet because I'm now like one of 
my. 

1267
00:49:57,920 --> 00:49:59,560
My mum's bollocked me, my class 
hate me. 

1268
00:49:59,720 --> 00:50:01,760
Yeah, and I'm one goes. 
Here you go. 

1269
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:03,240
Can you give us a good score, 
please? 

1270
00:50:03,240 --> 00:50:06,720
Yeah. 
So no, I don't think they work. 

1271
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:09,320
And it's because of trauma. 
Yeah, fair enough though. 

1272
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:11,040
Like that's a legit experience. 
But. 

1273
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:14,680
The individual ones, right? 
And I'm gonna rock the boat 

1274
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:15,320
here. 
Maybe. 

1275
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:21,360
I probably taught in my 10 year 
career that at some point in my 

1276
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:23,800
class in total, there's probably
about 8 kids who are on a 

1277
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:26,000
personal report. 
Yeah, maybe that's even. 

1278
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:26,960
Maybe it's six. 
Yeah. 

1279
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:28,440
Yeah, yeah, doesn't. 
Happen a lot. 

1280
00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:30,960
Doesn't happen a lot. 
Maybe one a year. 

1281
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:32,240
Sometimes none. 
Right. 

1282
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:37,080
And most of the time it did 
nothing. 

1283
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:39,360
Yeah. 
Most of the time all it did was 

1284
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:40,880
that I wrote down that they 
weren't behaving. 

1285
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:43,840
And then six weeks down the 
line, I was like, I'm still 

1286
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:46,480
putting sad faces on this report
because you're still not 

1287
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:49,560
behaving because the report 
doesn't fix the reason you're 

1288
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:52,360
misbehaving. 
You're not misbehaving because 

1289
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:54,360
of affair of consequence. 
You've already had the 

1290
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:58,120
consequence as well. 
So we need to be consistent and 

1291
00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:00,520
we need to make sure you're not 
getting what you you've done 

1292
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:03,160
this, you can't get that. 
But that doesn't, that's not the

1293
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:05,440
end of the story. 
So we talked about a million 

1294
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:07,960
times about how having a 
consequence that you follow for 

1295
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:10,080
is really important because it 
will catch some kids and it'll 

1296
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:12,880
and you have to be consistent. 
And it's not fair for them to 

1297
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:14,720
not have consequence when 
they're mis paving and someone 

1298
00:51:14,720 --> 00:51:16,760
else isn't. 
It's not fair for that to be the

1299
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:19,960
same, even more so for the kids 
who are behaving because it's 

1300
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:21,600
not fair for it to look like, 
well, what's the, what's the 

1301
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:24,080
point? 
However, it doesn't 

1302
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:25,760
automatically mean that it's 
going to fix behaviours. 

1303
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:28,280
We have to get to the underlying
root of why behaviours are bad, 

1304
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:30,720
and a report card won't fix 
that. 

1305
00:51:30,720 --> 00:51:33,200
For most kids, yeah, sure. 
For some kids it. 

1306
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:34,160
Works, That's the thing, isn't 
it? 

1307
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:35,640
Like I can think of kids. 
It's worth trying. 

1308
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:37,480
I can think of kids where 
putting their name on the board 

1309
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:40,280
absolutely worked and they 
behaved impeccably because they 

1310
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:42,120
did not want their name on that 
board worked great for them. 

1311
00:51:42,240 --> 00:51:44,480
I can think of some kids who had
a report card come to me every 

1312
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:47,000
single day after every single 
lesson and we had to reflect on 

1313
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:48,600
their lesson and that meant the 
world to them. 

1314
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:51,000
And they and they absolutely 
improved over time. 

1315
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:53,400
So to me, I'm sort of, I think 
of those wins. 

1316
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:56,000
I'm like, if we took both of 
those things away, is it just a 

1317
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:59,080
net loss? 
OK, but think about those kids, 

1318
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:02,320
right? 
So for sure the individual 

1319
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:04,240
report card I think is more 
acceptable because it's not a 

1320
00:52:04,240 --> 00:52:06,200
public shaming thing. 
It's an individual report card. 

1321
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:08,920
And actually it was quite nice 
to have those checkpoints 

1322
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:10,560
throughout the day where you can
talk to them, right? 

1323
00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:13,120
So I quite like that and I quite
like that side effect of it. 

1324
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:15,760
And it worked for some kids and 
it was great and I would never 

1325
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:18,000
not try it. 
But for kids it doesn't work for

1326
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:19,480
very quick. 
I remember after two weeks one 

1327
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:21,440
time I was like, cool, coming 
off this, this is not helping. 

1328
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:24,080
It is actually not helping. 
If anything it's a hindrance 

1329
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:26,160
because you're constantly 
forgetting or you don't have it 

1330
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:27,800
or you've left it in another 
room on purpose and you just 

1331
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:29,080
want to be a nuisance and get it
and come back. 

1332
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:32,920
It's not helping. 
So same with the board thing. 

1333
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:36,520
If you think about any child 
ever where writing their name on

1334
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:39,320
the board has worked in a in a 
positive way and made them 

1335
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:43,200
behave themselves, how many 
times in a year do those kids 

1336
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:45,160
get their name on the board? 
Oh, still loads. 

1337
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:46,960
Really. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, loads. 

1338
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:48,200
Who? 
I think because it's always 

1339
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:49,600
realistic. 
It's the same. 

1340
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:50,800
It's the same truth, which is 
what I'm. 

1341
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:52,840
Saying but then it works 
consistently because I've I've 

1342
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:55,360
found that the more they're on 
the board the more desensitising

1343
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:57,560
it stops working. 
The ones I can think of who 

1344
00:52:57,560 --> 00:52:58,720
literally change their. 
Behaviour. 

1345
00:52:58,720 --> 00:52:59,800
Oh sorry, I was because the 
opposite. 

1346
00:52:59,840 --> 00:53:01,880
No, because it's the first time 
they've been on the board. 

1347
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:03,920
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 
So my, my point is for the ones 

1348
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:06,280
it for the ones the board thing 
worked for, right. 

1349
00:53:06,520 --> 00:53:08,520
Only it works once and they 
never do it again. 

1350
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:11,520
So it becomes redundant when it 
because the names, these that go

1351
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:13,600
on the board all the time are 
the ones who don't give a crap 

1352
00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:15,600
and don't change their behaviour
anymore. 

1353
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:18,360
So it just becomes a wallpaper 
of the kids who are blast as 

1354
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:19,920
naughty. 
They see their name out there. 

1355
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:21,320
They're like, well, I do this 
every day anyway. 

1356
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:21,920
What's? 
The point, Sure. 

1357
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:24,320
No, I agree. 
I'm I I literally like when you 

1358
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:26,000
said that I thought the other 
way around, which is what I was 

1359
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:27,040
saying. 
Always on the Yeah, yeah, I 

1360
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:28,040
think of those children, not 
the. 

1361
00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:31,600
Ones the ones that the ones that
public shaming works with, 

1362
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:34,800
you're going to get one or two 
cases a year. 

1363
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:37,840
It's where it actually is doing 
the job. 

1364
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:40,720
Yeah, yeah. 
And realistically, there's more 

1365
00:53:40,720 --> 00:53:42,720
to take into account. 
I'm playing devil's advocate 

1366
00:53:42,720 --> 00:53:44,440
more than anything, by the way, 
because I actually do. 

1367
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:46,360
I my overall opinion is I 
actually don't think they're 

1368
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:47,320
good. 
Just touch feet there. 

1369
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:48,720
Yeah, well, you're right. 
You OK? 

1370
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:49,800
Feel a bit. 
Sick, I did. 

1371
00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:51,480
Just touch a little bit. 
A little bit sick? 

1372
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:52,840
Maybe it's time to be wrapping 
this up here. 

1373
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:54,880
Yeah, it is. 
But I'm, I'm, I feel like I've 

1374
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:56,560
got to get to the bottom of 
this. 

1375
00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:01,760
I I've also had a parent come in
before, not a few times where 

1376
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:04,040
their child has gone home. 
They're so mortified that they 

1377
00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:06,480
were on the board this one time 
that actually it really affected

1378
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:09,160
the rest of that week and that 
that was not a net win, even 

1379
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:10,880
though it did make them in the 
moment stop doing the thing they

1380
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:11,960
were doing. 
That was a bit silly because 

1381
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:13,560
they absolutely did not want to 
get their name on the board. 

1382
00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:14,600
It also ruined the rest of the 
week. 

1383
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:15,560
They didn't want to come to 
school. 

1384
00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:18,160
So it's like that probably was 
not a net win to have that kid's

1385
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:19,440
name on the board, even though 
it stopped that way. 

1386
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:22,280
If you looked at it contained in
the lesson, great win, thumbs 

1387
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:23,960
up. 
Really though, it wasn't because

1388
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:26,040
now that child was then 
terrified of the idea of their 

1389
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:28,320
name being put on the board. 
So that definitely wasn't good. 

1390
00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:30,360
I think. 
I think, you know, the research 

1391
00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:33,000
generally points towards not 
doing that sort of thing, 

1392
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:34,720
doesn't it? 
The research says things like 

1393
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:38,400
having blanket policies like 
this, if, if someone has a 

1394
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:41,720
rubbish morning at home that we 
have, we're not Privy to at all 

1395
00:54:41,720 --> 00:54:43,000
and that's affecting their 
behaviour. 

1396
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:44,880
And now they just get tarnished 
as a naughty kid because 

1397
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:46,160
actually they've just had a 
horrendous morning. 

1398
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:48,000
They've had an argument with 
their mum, everyone's left the 

1399
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:49,560
home crying. 
They've had a horrible 

1400
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:51,720
disruptive morning. 
Probably shouldn't really be 

1401
00:54:51,720 --> 00:54:53,080
punishing that child. 
We should probably just be 

1402
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:54,240
talking to them and actually 
helping them. 

1403
00:54:54,240 --> 00:54:56,400
Like you said, addressing the 
root, the root problem. 

1404
00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:58,120
So there's loads and loads and 
loads of stuff. 

1405
00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:00,000
Ultimately that backs up not 
doing behaviour charts. 

1406
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:03,080
I'm on this person's side, the 
person I wrote in of I think we 

1407
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:05,560
probably should try and have 
those discussions. 

1408
00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:07,840
Maybe for them it's a case of 
actually go away and do the 

1409
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:09,200
research. 
Then if you, if you feel like 

1410
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:11,240
you've it's hard to counter, go 
and do the research. 

1411
00:55:11,240 --> 00:55:13,800
Bring it in and see what the 
research suggests instead and 

1412
00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:16,000
literally pitch that to your 
school and say, look, I don't 

1413
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:17,360
think they're good for this, 
this, this reason. 

1414
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:19,680
The research backs it up. 
Could we maybe try this really 

1415
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:22,400
positive approach? 
So last thought is everyone else

1416
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:24,600
at that school a horrible, 
callous teacher who's bad and 

1417
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:25,880
just doesn't care about? 
It no, of course not. 

1418
00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:28,320
Not at all, Not at all. 
It just doesn't work like that. 

1419
00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:30,200
Because I think you can listen 
to that conversation and think 

1420
00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:32,000
we're basically digging out 
people who do it. 

1421
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:33,120
I did it in my. 
I did. 

1422
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:35,280
It in my whole career. 
For nearly all of Yeah, like for

1423
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:36,600
most of it, I was doing this 
kind of thing. 

1424
00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:40,120
I just, it can sometimes feel 
like the right thing to do. 

1425
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:42,480
And it can superficially look 
like it's making a difference. 

1426
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:44,280
And for some children, it will 
make a difference. 

1427
00:55:44,720 --> 00:55:45,880
And. 
And you want to be seen to be 

1428
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:47,560
doing something for behaviour, 
especially if it's a tricky 

1429
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:49,040
thing. 
And I've seen lots of schools 

1430
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:51,760
who've turned behaviour around 
and have robust things where in 

1431
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:53,800
every single classroom there's a
chart that looks like this and 

1432
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:56,120
it tells you the consequences of
your actions and your positive 

1433
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:57,760
part. 
And it clearly works for some 

1434
00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:00,800
schools in that regard, right. 
But just you're I'd have an 

1435
00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:03,920
opinion and my opinion is in 
general that I don't quite like 

1436
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:06,520
them. 
I think they're a net loss, I 

1437
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:07,360
would say. 
Yeah, sure. 

1438
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:09,240
Personally, that's fair enough. 
Fair enough. 

1439
00:56:09,240 --> 00:56:10,800
But I don't hate you if you do 
it. 

1440
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:13,040
I appreciate you so much. 
I think you're doing a great 

1441
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:14,000
job. 
And it's really hard. 

1442
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:17,480
Behaviour's not easy, and the 
more help you can get, the 

1443
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:18,320
better craft. 
Yeah. 

1444
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:20,280
And like you said, every 
school's different anyway, so 

1445
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:21,720
you just need to have different 
approaches. 

1446
00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:24,720
Definitely. 
Let's finish there with the 

1447
00:56:24,720 --> 00:56:27,000
wreck, the wreck, the wreck, and
the wreck. 

1448
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:30,560
If you enjoyed this wreck and 
wreck episode, please do like 

1449
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:34,760
follow share with a friend rate.
How are you still so bad at that

1450
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:37,000
little call to action? 
How was that bad? 

1451
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:40,000
Like follow share rate. 
What? 

1452
00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:42,240
What else? 
Sorry, I just watched you 

1453
00:56:42,240 --> 00:56:43,640
realise that those are the four 
things. 

1454
00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:44,360
Ready. 
No. 

1455
00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:44,760
No. 
Ready. 

1456
00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:46,000
This is what I'd say. 
Ready. 

1457
00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:47,640
Yeah. 
Help us out, please. 

1458
00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:50,840
Forsake. 
That's how you do it, Yeah. 

1459
00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:52,360
Put in the heart string. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1460
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:53,840
And also I'll do what you did 
earlier, shall I? 

1461
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:56,880
And take a pick out of you now, 
make sure to book a maths demo 

1462
00:56:56,880 --> 00:56:59,200
for to help your arithmetic 
fluency in your school. 

1463
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:01,360
Because if you book a maths 
demo, you can help your 

1464
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:02,840
arithmetic fluency in your 
school. 

1465
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:03,960
That's what he did earlier, 
wasn't it? 

1466
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:05,640
I didn't take the mic when he 
said that same thing twice. 

1467
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:08,840
Double down, double down, 
double, double, double, double 

1468
00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:10,080
down. 
Reckon, reckon the wreck. 

1469
00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:12,760
Is worth saying though, do book 
mass demo for your school if you

1470
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:15,280
want to help arithmetic fluency.
And if you don't, then clearly 

1471
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:18,000
you don't care about your kids. 
Wow, I hope you heard that 

1472
00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:20,520
lovely sound of Dylan smacking 
his iPad into the mic. 

1473
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:21,080
Bye. 
See you.