Dylan celebrate, this podcast episode being the first one
available on video. Check us out on Spotify, by the
way, or on YouTube. I've got a little game to play.
Okay, good. I mean, I'm going to tell the
customers right now that they missed out on you, trying to do
this three times because you were nervous about the
Caribbean. But let's go straight into the
game. You know?
I did I broke the fourth wall like this.
Okay, you can't do that. What a way to switch our viewers
off straight away. The first ever time the viewed
as to see your googly eyes staring down.
At them down the camera. And if you're listening, this is
all nonsense. So, Let's get started with a
game. I have got three statements,
okay? And this first round of this
game is this right? You've got to guess which
statement is something. A child has actually said to me
this week and which two are this one thing?
Yeah this is like fresh fresh out of the kitchen.
Well what children are said to be the shit this week, only one
of them's real though, okay. So alright first statement Mr.
Stevens, if you are a superhero, you'd be Eggman.
And then the child proceeded to look at my head statement.
Two, my dad. Thought you were older than him
and it's his 45th birthday today.
Solid solid start, and number three, does mr.
Price do more YouTube videos than you?
Because he has hair. Which one of those statements?
Do you think is actually something a child said to me?
Joints, quite sad. All of them.
Sound really exciting. I know I did quite well, I think
I think it's the more YouTube videos one because I don't think
that you would have wanted to make that stat that one up.
So I think that was true, it's not, I've made that word up.
I was really proud of that one because we've been doing loads
of YouTube videos this week. So yeah, no, it's not.
It was the first one. A child randomly came up to me,
not, you know, like they do when they just want to roast.
You, that's it. Yeah.
If you're a superhero, you'd be Eggman.
And then pointed pointed at my head, I was like, I wonder what
super-powered Eggman have. I can fry myself on the floor.
I made a joke. Anyone.
Got absolutely Stig. Let me go rotten.
I've got a second round. Okay, this time.
So it's the same sort of principle three statements.
This one is well, the first round was so good.
So I can't make me shut up guess.
Which statement is something that really happened to me
working in Schools that had to think hard about this one,
because we've worked together a lot.
So I had to try and make them obscure enough.
So first one really during a snow fight with the children.
I slipped over and I gave myself a nosebleed.
That's you all over. That's you all over plenty of
snow fights over the is always good.
Other teachers hate me because I will go out and have a snow
fight in the field. Terrible number to a child
brought me in a week to wear because they thought it was
funny. Obviously, I like it.
I did wear it. So, Okay.
Okay, another three. I organized a school trip to the
wrong place entirely. And then I turn over the place.
I thought I booked which was not booked.
This just did. You're like a self-deprecating
mode ear or not of these show you in a good light?
I don't think so. But I reckon I reckon the snow
fight one you've made up because you've tried to be clever doing
it close to 1 the because I know there's loads of snow stories
with you. The school trip one.
I feel like I would have known for like I would have known that
you were Tom. If you put the wrong place I'm
gonna go for the week being true.
Why don't you got? That would write they did and it
was actually this week. Oh my goodness.
Okay. Well, that was a fantastic game.
What, a way to celebrate the video, guys.
Hey yeah. The whole thing's like this.
So let's crack on, shall we? Hello everyone.
Welcome back to another episode of teach seat.
Repeat, this is episode 14. My name is Dylan and my name is
Hayden and it's back to the old intro that we've loved so much.
We were off last week, we didn't do a podcast.
I had literally one person. Messaged me asking me where we
were. That's nice.
Isn't it all of our all one follower base then, yeah, so all
them with Russia. He was a bit bogged down full of
stuff. Going on local elections, but he
found the time to message us a really nice swing on.
I messaged you and ask where you were.
Oh, what's that? Wait.
Was that been pretending to be
really soon after the last three months?
Am I the only person asked but okay, you know what, ignore it.
So thank you, customers for absolutely not missing as
whatsoever been a bit of a jam packed week or two really.
So Hayden. What have you been up to Pal?
Whatever the last two whole weeks of recap for man?
Well, and as you can tell from my head, if you're watching the
video which you can do by the way, we're going to keep safe
below. You can watch it on video now.
Look at moving bits. All right, should we search?
We should probably have a name for the people who actually
watch some video, some kind of, you know, negative connotation
because they're being creeps really on it.
Like, it's a podcast while watching us so, okay, we can you
think of a name, what come up with it?
Well, well, think about it. I think about maybe the, maybe
the viewers could come up with their own self.
Deprecating name will have customers, who listen, just
audio. And we'll come up with some kind
of name for the widows who like to watch us.
For some reason, for analysis, and I'll chair, there you go.
You got it. The Widow's is like to watch a,
some reason in there, for an hour, sat in the chair as we
have mouthful but which we go for that.
Okay. Well if it's anything like this
podcast, you know, check our email address.
Check out Instagram name in there, really?
I can't wait to make a YouTube channel, we haven't even made
you. God knows if this is the place
where you can get videos from TCP podcast from Haven and Dylan
and all the creatures want to watch as viral video.
Terrible anyway. But yeah, we've been up to I
mean, obviously, I went over the main thing about week because
that's the main point of this podcast.
Obviously, it sounds week we'll come back to that.
But other than that, got a bit of a sunburn on my head.
Oh no, I'm going here. And as you can tell, I thought
it'd be really good. The first time we do record it
on video If I Had A stomping cold and I look horrible.
So actually my crusty knows I tell you what if you are
listening on Spotify and you weren't convinced before
becoming this to come and watch this on video cross the nose.
I think, I think I think Spotify automatically pays a video, but
I was also thinking, what percentage of our podcast is,
you talking about your lack of hair.
It must be pretty high. Pretty probably about any hairs
I have so about 90%. Okay, well, unless you're under
a rock, we had a whole thing. This week, going back to episode
1 of the podcast. When we had a bit of a chat with
Charlie, I'll make down Windsor. Give us a bank holiday.
Give us a bank holiday because we've managed to pass over a
Golden Crown to a weird old man who we all meant to sit and sing
about. That's cool.
It was good. I had really enjoyed someone
made a cut a really, really good edit of the moment in which he
is crowned with the moment in which he's crowned in the Johnny
English film. If you remember that from a long
time ago, it's perfectly and then obviously Rowan Atkinson
like flies. Then sits on the on the throne
against Brown and I couldn't believe how well this, like,
satirical piece from 20 years ago, cut with the real-life
coronation of think. That's pretty funny.
I've seen one with Camilla because obviously Camilla got a
crown as well. He managed to bag that didn't
they didn't sell Prince, Philip get a frantic around for several
years. Camilla comes in sweeps in, she
gets a crown. Anyways, put the crown on their
head and I still would have dubbed over the audio from Harry
Potter with a sort of hat, put streiko into Slytherin It Go.
Those close to her Slytherin, the bad.
If we got any royalists, fast, turn this off.
Now, Dylan, if we can tear all this fans, they your you can.
I'm going on my word, I don't know what to say.
Yeah, human some kind of Republican madman just sat if
you in about this old bloke, there's probably nice enough,
but the whole thing stinks to me, then about you actually.
Hey, oh, cost of living crisis, let's go and watch the golden
Carriage go past. How lovely?
I did enjoy a lot of people share that picture of that kind
of bird's eye view shot of the all the potholes being filled
with sand. Did you see that?
We know it was the capture. Yes.
Like this, the iron, Me here. We can't even afford to like
repair our roads, but we've got this big golden Carriage of made
of pumpkins and pulled by a various unbelievable.
I think it's unbelievable. So, yeah, you know, I spent a
bit of time getting unnecessarily annoyed at that
went to a barbecue, that was a coronation themed drink it
drinking out of a cup of the crown on it didn't feel right,
but I did it anyway because their meat and a Barbie, I'm
gonna do it anyway. Your morals.
Go right out the window and there's food.
What's that? What's that 17?
Glasses of lemonade. Okay.
That's right up my street. Some nice pop do love that.
King, that's me. So yeah, and I know bad but back
now the back on the podcast and I was thinking the whole time as
I can't wait to moan about it because actually, what is going
to segue really nicely into is? The bulk of this episode.
So like you said Hayden is SATs, week for year six, they're doing
their key stage 2 SATs after a short break, which is literally
the three-second jingle. We're going to come back and
hold on. Hold on guys.
Make sure you get through it. Every second jingle goes
gravity. But but three seconds.
Come back! We're gonna have a chat about
all things SATs and we're going to get deep.
Right. Head.
We are So as we record this, this is literally CS6 at speak
and I like to call it Key Stage 2 because that is like a very
quick thing before we get into later.
Yeah, you know it is testing the whole of Key Stage 2.
So there's questions in these papers that you're the learning
the history and you have for most of it CS6.
But it is the key stage 2 SATs. There's a lot of controversy
around these tests over the years, it's kind of been
overshadowed this year, I guess, with the whole striking and
coronation and all that stuff. So it's been less of a, I feel
like there's been less of a discussion than it has been in
previous years about, you know, how useful they are or whether
we should do them. Not but you're literally in your
six head and doing them this week.
So you know what your thoughts? So I'm first of all, just going
to say pepper disclaimer, just protecting our jobs here.
Dylan bit of a disclaimer for everyone, we would like my job.
Anything we talked about in this, in this podcast, episode
is not related to the actual status week in terms of content.
We cannot discuss content at the papers during the SATs week that
be very silly and we're not doing that.
So just put it out there. In case anyone thinks, hey,
they're discussing, what's in the papers this week, we're not,
we might reflect Act on Old papers and old years, but we're
not talking about this week anyway, now, I've got that out
of the way, so, yes, we are the recording today.
Obviously, this is Wednesday and this will be released on Friday
at the end of SATs week, but we are Midway through the SATs week
bit strange for a start. It's really throw me off because
obviously, we had bank holiday Monday for the, for the king.
And oh, wait, the wait, the day, the day.
We got office at speak in the midst of the mail and the
establishment moaning because every single second A child's
education is precious but we have to sit around and drink out
of a exactly. We have to drink 17 Lemonade's
and have a barbecue that kind of man in Gold.
Carriage going down the Mal. Let's go and Twilight.
Yeah, so honest I was a bit weird so has run off a little
bit because I keep thinking about what they are they behind
her or do you had weather and but don't expect was going.
Well it's just like any other you know any other sites we can
have a year really? Really to be honest with you
it's just a bit strange at the kids came back after three days
but Which we'll talk about, which what do we want to dive
into, you know what I think. So, again, you know, there's
lots of people, if this podcast, they want teachers, lots of
people who are so very quickly. Maybe we could just summarize,
what are the key stage 2 sets? Because I think a lot of people
listening will vaguely. Remember doing some kind of test
to be a six. So, you know, what are they,
what they involve and then we can maybe get into the
nitty-gritty of sure we put in our children through this
because it can become quite full of pressure right on it.
Did I want to take you on a bit of a journey, then we'll go back
in time a little bit, give you some, give the listeners and you
You some real context to the SATs and the viewers remember
and and the your I'm looking at you break it down for get
outweigh, those people listening would be a rubbish standoffish
bit for you he's turned it off. He said we're gonna see a
retention drop in the middle of us.
That awkward the only time telling will ever look you in
the eye. Okay, so back in 1988 before we
were born Dylan, before we are born so nice and young, the Tory
government. In the education Reform Act,
Right. And then in 1989, that's when
the national curriculum, the first compulsory National
curriculum was actually put in place in the UK and then, it was
only a couple of years later in 1991 when they actually
introduced the SATs. Okay, so the SATs were
introduced at simply as a means of assessing schools, delivery
of the national curriculum, that they just put in place, which
was obviously all-new. I can understand the desire to
want to check how that's doing. So that's kind of what the SATs
was originally. And And when it came in into
play, originally involved in the SATs, were three main subjects,
which is now down to two subjects.
So you'll know if, you know, if you're involved in education,
now, in any way or you have any children going through it, that
English and maths are the core things that we talk about all
the time is English test, its maths test, but it used to be a
science test as well up until 2009.
That's not true. That's that was the key stage 3
sets up until early. Since I do apologize, I'm gonna
say that was going. That was going so well.
And so, so boring. They had to go wrong.
Yeah, no, no. The best bit was I'm wrong
again. Is this 2010?
All right, I'm look at, look at the facts.
Reading the wrong one. So up until Berlin, stop, stop
very quickly. I'm going to just talk to the
viewers right now because what's hilarious is I can't stress to
you guys enough how much Hayden said to me, Dylan Weir,
according to their own videos, we have to really care for my
mistakes. Okay?
We're through really careful because look really weird.
We have to do cut sort of, that's why we're not cutting
that. At and that stayed in.
All right. So Dylan we can't be what
mistakes. All right, it's important to
show our customers that our don't pull that teacher quality,
is that this is why I say to the kids.
If I make a mistake with genuine, we all make mistakes
and I'm sure I'm modeling to you, what?
It's like to just own your mistakes.
All right, so in 2010 I'm sorry no really quickly because I'm
calling you out, I'm calling you out because it's what every
teacher does the like it's really important to make
mistakes. So I'm going to pretend I didn't
it's really important to steaks that.
Well, I modeled this method actually mistake, I did it on
purpose. You will learn something from me
Stevens. You told us to leave the paper
blank and we just handed it in. Yes, it was called a mistake and
we will learn from now. Anyway, so science was, it has a
nice 2010. It was two thousand oaks hen
that was removed, and it was an interesting time because the,
the general secretary, City of the National Association of head
teachers, which is a union said at the time in an article, like
obviously, we're just annoyed at the fact that we just randomly
taken out a core subjects of the SATs.
If we think that's so important, they said, if there is a concern
that tests are turning young children off of science, which
was the rationale, by the way back, then then the same is true
for English and maths if anything, and this is what they
said, this is run a school back in 2010, so I thought was really
cool to read it 12 years later, 13 years later.
If anything, this move will simply Narrow the curriculum
further because it will encourage schools to concentrate
on two subjects instead of three.
I mean, talk about obvious but it came true.
Like honestly, that's crazy, isn't it?
And then we spoke about recently about the whole curriculum
problem. The problem of the primary
curriculum, have a look at the episode.
You haven't, and it kind of exacerbates that doesn't it?
Because that we judge schools using the SATs papers which are
exclusively mastered English, but then we have ofsted and
Frameworks coming in and judging on the delivery of a broad and
It's curriculum. And it's like these two things
can't work in tandem, what are you doing?
What are you talking about? How can we have League tables
with SATs, which are just English and maths.
But then have so much pressure on delivering and undeliverable
curriculum. It's just a hot pot of of a bit
of a mess, really. And then on top of that, on top
of that, just to make it, you know, slightly more further
apart, in terms of those two systems not working, we decided
that it would be good to introduce teacher pay.
That is completely dependent on their performance in those two
subjects. Haha, just think, you know, I do
get paid by performance. I get the rationale of it, but
like you said, it doesn't teach you could feel Gonna Pay
Teachers more money, each year, based on how their children
perform in English and maths. Of course, we're going to get
this narrow curriculum, that, that just focuses on two
subjects because that's what people like the school's judged
on it. The teachers are paid based on
it. Like what did what they think is
going to happen that's going to slip towards this culture of
what you know, we do tons of math and English and everything
else gets pushed out of the curriculum and then we All sit
around and moan that we can't fit everything in the curriculum
because we're doing so much English and math.
Yeah, like I said in the last episode, absolutely true.
And the thing that frustrates me for more about that is we but we
still have the expectation of the often your curriculum.
So you're absolutely right. Like everything's judged on the
morning but then it's just kind of like, said as a by to buy
that you. But yeah, you've also got do
this, and it's like, okay, are we judge?
Don't know, but ofsted might come in and judge your framework
and do a deep dive into your coffee.
So we have to make sure that that is absolutely bad.
Look, it's really frustrating talking about it because we both
understand and appreciate that every subject, of course, has to
be in a perfect place. That's what you always have to
strive for. We want the best for their
children, but it's just so unrealistic.
And the pressure of SATs. We talked about this last week,
I wanted to talk to you about this because your year six
teacher, I've never officially taught in year six, I've done
placements in year six, I've helped out in your six your year
six teacher having done the SATs for a few years now.
Yeah I wonder how you see something we coin.
A few weeks ago, one of our podcast, we talked about how
stupid trickle-down economics was like, of course, the money
doesn't come down but when we kind of said but trickle-down
stress and then like you know pressure and I just worry from
the outside looking in when I hear about year six boosters for
maths and children being invited in their halftime to do math.
I just think who's that for that is for the school's League table
results that and you know, that is for this arbitrary measure of
children's Targets in secondary school from their sat.
Results children develop at different rates.
I just find this pressure from the top down, finding its way to
the children and being so counterintuitive to like our
aims as Educators. What do you think?
I just feel like the whole the whole thing is
counterproductive, I think it's a bit of a double sided coin.
And I like, I all somewhat disagree with you not completely
because I your rationale behind your point, I understand it.
But I also think that and this goes It's everything I normally
say, right? But the dike hopefully
understand. I'm not just suddenly flipping
sighs. I'm a big tall right now, but I
think anything that could be remotely seen as like, horrible.
I'm not at all worried boy. Let's go.
Tory's, got, I'm sorry. Go without a even smaller place
of audience. Listen, we want an echo chamber.
Okay, tell us were funny and tell us where right politically
it's all we want, but yeah, but factors.
That's right. So it's a weird one because you
talked about like halftime clubs and doing all these extra boost.
Things. I do think that can go too far
and I think that's the point you're making like it gets a bit
ridiculous. Like, you know, that's not all
schools for, and are we only doing that because we're so
worried about data and are paid progression and that sort of
stuff that we're doing this? Or is it because we care about
the kids but the reason I think it's a double-edged the
double-edged sword, a double sided coin is because also it
does keep us accountable as a profession, I do think it makes
teachers really, really think twice about everything they're
teaching, you know, is you Not just take a flippant approach to
it or whatever, what will be will be, we all going to be
judged in there, mate. So, you know, you need to be,
make sure you got the absolute best provision in for your kids
because if you don't, it's going to be bad for them.
And it's also going to be bad for you, by the way.
So make sure everything's in place.
So there's part of me that works where it's like, I do get it and
I do think it's great. Actually, a lot of these kids
Thrive, they get all this extra stuff put in place and they
absolutely Thrive from it and end up doing really well.
But I do get the pressures and stress, you know, the I guess
that's the point you're making, okay?
So cupcake or a couple of points come back to our next.
I find it really interesting and you've remotely disagreed with
me. So I've got my backup trailer
and so it's really interesting to me.
I guess, the first thing I wanted to say, was it really
Narrows your focus in terms of like you know, you're going to
be judged on this. And like that's kind of the
point we were just making which is like, okay well if it does
narrow my focus then what kind of missing out of the kids
holistic approach because of that, Not just into math and
English, for example. But the other point I guess is
well, is if teachers I know for a fact have looked at the
curriculum before and instead of thinking, okay, how can I best
deliver this? Curriculum for my children
because I need to be have the curriculum delivered.
They've said, okay, what's the best way to get more marks in
the SATs paper? What can I prioritize?
What can I maybe not teach the children because it's not worth
my time because not not lots of them will get it.
But if I spend more time on this instead, Said that's going to
potentially get the more marks in the test at the detriment of
their curriculum. That's, that's a very good
point. And that is widely widely seen
across this profession. That's just not like low call,
or like, a few scores. I have, I agree.
I've seen that from hundreds of people online and things saying
that's what they're doing. And yeah, you're probably right.
I think, I think as a wider Point, you're probably right.
I'm going down the perspective of I'm, I'm drawn into thinking
that the most important thing that's probably what I'm doing
right now and I'm I'm agreeing. Oh yeah.
Math and English are the most important thing they Highest
value. So therefore doing all these
extra boosters and things is great, objectively, great for
the children because they're going to be better at math and
English. These really highly important
things but I think you've got it.
Made a good point about. Let's not forget though, that
the curriculum is supposed to be Broad and balanced.
And perhaps, if we weren't paid based on the results of these
and we didn't have League tables, maybe we wouldn't think
these are the most important and we'd actually not put these
things in place and instead of doing Mass boosters, maybe we'd
do some cool people. Lesson or some art lesson or,
you know, some geography that the children are interested in.
So, yeah, it's a good point, yeah.
Really interests me because I, again, I'm not someone who's
been in with the pressures of actually being the year, 60
chirring, always when you're in on the, on the front line,
things are very different. It's a very similar thing, but I
went to year three and a Junior School.
Everyone told me before you. Three and a junior school, they
come from a different school until Christmas sometimes,
that's how long it takes them to embed routines.
And, you know, get out to scratch with like, the school
expectations. I thought it was nonsense.
And they said it will take 15, 20 minutes to write the day and
the learning objective. I thought it was nonsense.
It all turned out to be true so it's very eye-opening being in
the job so I get that for you six teachers listening who think
maybe I'm being a bit idealistic and I like the idea of you being
a bit more realistic coming back with some, you know, the actual
thing that happens. But from my point of view as
well that the problem I see and it's not something people like
to talk about, but it is absolutely true that it happens
when Where people are so pressurized, whether it's from
their own, you know, self-belief and wanting to be seen as a good
teacher, or from SLT from the top down that, how can I say
this? Not cheating, but absolutely,
there is such a pressure to get the right scores that, you know,
children might be you, I would, I want to say, it's really
fitting correctly because I'm not saying I've seen this
happen, but I know for a fact that it does that you know,
people might be coerced or very tempted to kind of guide
children's hands a bit and help a bit more than they're supposed
to or you know, go around and just say all chip you know,
check that again kind of thing because it's so such a highly
pressurized job and I suppose we see it a lot more, it's linked
to SATs it's how we assess the children and we're just as
teachers but with the writing moderations and things like
that, where it's very tempting to just push that hand and be
like ah, Well, it's a you're right and I'm sure, you know, I
imagine any normal human being is going to feel that pressure
right to get these kids perform and I think it hype.
What that does is highlight a really fundamental flaw of the
SATs and kind of exams, really? In general, which is that it's a
performance on one day to judge children on for years of
learning. And and and it is kind of crazy,
really? Isn't it if you think about it?
Like let's take a typical Grammar punctuation and spelling
test right so the children sit a GPS Test it within their SATs
every year and quite often on the lead-up to SATs, will do
mock tests and things like that just from based on previous
years. And so I've become very familiar
with SATs papers over the last five, six years.
And each question is kind of designed to test an area of the
curriculum, right? So if you actually look behind
the scenes of the SATs, there's always like there's always
coding that goes with every question and it all it breaks it
down. You can find out what the
purpose of a question Oh, it was testing their ability to use
apostrophes in contracted formed words.
All right and they'll be maybe two questions on that in the
whole paper one. Usually because there's so many
objectives to teach across the key stage 2 and you know, we
know what the children can do and I can have.
Can you just imagine in that hypothetical situation?
We are saying, you know, people might be tempted to kind of
guide children's hands where they know that that child can
can do it because they've done it consistently for the last two
years. Maybe and then you see them.
It wrong and that's their one and only chance to show that in
the whole four years. They've learned how to use
apostrophes. I think that that's the flaw in
the system, why really? So that kid made a little silly
are all just made a mistake we'll just midriff.
Misread the question and now from as a data point that child
can categorically not do apostrophes now.
That's what it means and it's like, yeah that's that's that's
a dangerous game when you're playing with you and beings who
have this like real close bond with this class that they
developed over a year and they want them to succeed and do
well. And they know we know as
teachers What those children can do like the back of our hand, we
know what they can do. So yeah, it's a horrible.
I don't know how I saw him. I saw a meme online and it was
very similar to this. And this what?
I mean II want to make it really clear.
I'm not talking about someone said, they're telling someone
the answer. I'm not talking about that,
that's just outright cheating. And I don't believe anyone does
that. I know the very, very few, but I
don't believe people do that. I'm talking about exactly what
you just said, you know? And they're saw a me and it was
hilarious because I remember this being in school, Or and it
was it was this guy pretending to be a teacher and he was being
like a moderator walking around right in the exam Hall and he
walks up. He walks up to the person.
He's like this, he's like looking I could do acting now
because this is going on Spotify.
Oh yeah, go on. Then she walks up.
It was bent over and he just goes and stands up and goes to
the front of the room turns around.
And says, guys, you need to remember to check your answers
really carefully. Just as Yes, I remember that so
fast, it's cool, but a teacher, but we need to make sure we
check our answers. Okay.
Yeah. All of our answers, especially
the page were on right now, like staring at the person.
So in the real SATs we have to there's with that, you know,
it's really strict for a reason because at the end of the day is
much as we talk joke about it and we say like how people might
be pressurized, it is imperative that nobody does that.
You know, as we both agree, we've had this discussion
before, like it can't be a standardized like set tests.
It's if if it's not standardized in the way, it's delivered,
right? So we are literally given like
scripts in the morning to read off of and it and, and we have
these little booklets that we have to read through a, for
example, if you are a one-to-one reader for a child because
certain children qualify for having an adult, helping them
read that, the questions there is like, a whole guidance,
booklet of things, you can and can't do and you must follow it.
And I get why they've made all these things.
It's to avoid people thinking, oh not breaking the rules.
I just, you know, go and tap on the desk and get them to reread
a question. I'm not helping them.
I thought told them any content I'm just, you know, I've noticed
that they've made a silly mistake and I know they can do
this thing and it's to tell trying to avoid all of that sort
of Foul Play, that that, you know, potentially goes on in
different schools, but we still human beings.
I, I can't guarantee that across the country.
There are not people doing this sort of thing, and I do think
that that might be, that might have a part to play in.
Why? Why the bar Gets raised every
single year because children seem to be, you know, doing all
their doing so. Well in English and maths, the
back of the bar. A what I wanted to talk about is
quickly actually because it's something I really strongly
believe in which kind of then leads to a point of view that
people might think my job is pointless that.
I think I'm actually poisonous but I don't but I'm going to try
and explain my point of view here because on my huge problem
is year-to-year comparisons especially within the same
school. On the national scale is that
hundreds of thousands of children.
Take the test on the national scale.
That's enough data to make an accurate.
Judgment of, you know, whether children are progressing or
regressing, whatever it is right with like within a school.
It's so backwards because you could just get a class who based
on the national average are well above average and the next year
you could get a class that based on the national average are well
below and In The Raw scores that get published and that let the
public. See you could go from one Year.
Everyone 90% Plus in English. Reading in maths as well.
Ever not 100% across across the board, amazing scores do the
exact same provision, put the exact same amount of work in
place. Do the exact same research to
the same amount of, you know, guiding and helping the children
and doing the exact same thing. And next year, your scores could
drop by 20% and it is literally quite simply To, that's the
ability of the children in your class and there's like,
comparisons made between it and I think that's so toxic, I fully
agree by the way, I've always I've always found that insane
even my first year of teaching. I remember having that kind of
thought, process of like wait, what why do we ever why do we
compare year groups at all at what that seems pointless for
that. Exact reason you said, because
I've seen it every school I've ever worked in and every school
I've ever heard of it happens. Like it's completely normal.
There was one year where they get 95% and there's like wow
look how well we did. And that's always the exactly
how well we think that's teacher the next year, they'll get 67
percent. And it's know what you have to
say. You have to say, if you said,
look how well we did. Because of the 95%.
You have to then say next year, look how badly we did.
Yeah. But it does the same logic then
we go there. Just below the cohort was lower.
They were lower. Yeah.
I know I just I just think we really have to take a step back
and just be like look, unless something drastic has changed
Personnel is massively changed or you know your schemes or
you're doing or anything like that.
It unless you're looking at kind of The tracking that year group
through year, 3 year, 4 year 5 based on averages it's
pointless. It's just you're just going to
dig yourself a hole for when it comes out, that eventually which
it will. I actually don't think a lot of
people do. I reckon a lot of teachers?
A lot of people in this profession do genuinely, just
take that with a pinch of salt, like comparing, but we do like
to talk about it for some reason, but I think they do.
And yeah, I think my point more was this?
These stats get pushed like they put up on the washer percent in
reading but that they're, they're like the simplification
of it and that Nuance, absolutely.
It's of teachers, have that but parents that don't necessarily
and I think some staff still cling on to that as if well
that's our Benchmark. And it's like well it's just not
though is it was a benchmark for that cohort of children but
they're gone. Now is a new coil children.
I think I had an old head teacher of mine who I don't work
for any more made a really good point.
And I really learned something from him when he said this
because I did, I was quite new to SATs and things at the time,
was actually my first year in year six was all a whole new
world to me. And I was fall into that trap of
being like super wide about the Tara and like comparing it to
the last year and all that sort of stuff and he said to me,
don't worry about all this. Just stop worrying about this.
He's like the only thing that matters is their progress data
on an individual level. Yeah.
And I didn't know what you meant and he really explained to me.
He was like look each child is tracked and we track their
progress and basically I don't know how much you know about
this Dylan but every child gate basically gets Like A Plus or a
minus number at the end of Key Stage 2 to see how much progress
they've made. Since Key Stage 1, and that's
tracked and that's what he cared about and I was and I was like,
you know what, actually that's a really good approach.
Yeah. Okay.
Our data might, you might not be so worried about our date of the
stuff that goes to the public which we should care about.
Because like you said, entered a wider Community do form opinions
on it so we can't not care about it at all but from his point of
view for the children and for us as teachers, it was way more
relevant to look at the individual learning progress,
journey of those children and identify children.
And our lower down on that Journey, they're the children.
If you're going to put Focus time into any children, it's not
the ones is not to like sneak them into the next band.
Get them to expect it or get into greater depth.
It's no. Look at the children that need
more support because I'm not making as much progress that,
you know. That's what if you've got extra
resources, put them there because those children are not
making enough progress. And I really like that, I think
that that actually that data does also get published but it's
just way more kind of dense and harder to, you know, take in.
So you're absolutely right. And I again, 99% of school.
As will use that as the metric. Absolutely.
And actually, from my point of view being lower down in the
school, it's something we use looking at people progress
throughout their Journey. So it's not something that we
kind of just ignore until you six.
While God, wait, they need to get to this one.
Yeah, progress. We look at it now like okay.
Well, what was their key stage, 1 attainment, why they tracking
for what do they need to get? Which children need an
intervention. Yeah, and that's the more
holistic way to do. It, isn't it?
Because it's a classic thing of if you just look at the results.
He's going to go to your bottom Chunk on you and think, well,
they're at the bottom, so they need more.
They could be making rapid progress and your children.
The middle could be stagnating and not making the progress,
they need. And it's really nuanced.
And I just think the simplistic way sometimes frustrates me.
Because I just think, okay, it's way more complex than I can
think of a good analogy actually that just kind of summarizes the
flaws that we should be talking about, right?
So if we had a cohort of children that key stage 1, let's
say there are really really high ability cohort and a key stage 1
with 95% of them across the board was sick, was achieving
expected. And then at the end of Key Stage
2 in year 6, we get 90 percent across the board which looks
like a great number by itself. 90% is a good number in the
teaching World versus another cohort that came up from Key
Stage 1 at 40% across, the boards are really low and then
they ended at 70%. We'd celebrate generally in the
teaching culture in The Wider Community with celebrate that
90% as like a wow, well done. But whereas objectively
progress, wise, the other Data has made way more progress and
we should be way more celebratory of, you know, a
co-worker children. Going for 40 percent expected to
seventy percent expected. That's that's much better.
And that I think, kind of encapsulates the whole argument
we were just having quite nicely.
I guess the last thing that was really thinking about it comes
to mind. Hopefully we've kind of
summarize what the status is and you know, the arguments for it
and the problems it might face but very quickly.
Children do actually a lot of them and it's important to say
this because it's true, they do Thrive off it.
They really do, they'll be always be children who are
nervous about it. We need to detail them, but
you're right. There are children who love test
week. They love having a go, it's what
they do. It's almost for them like
playing a game of football. I was speaking to a child today
I was having Lunch in the hall with the children and he was
just expressing how excited he was that the maths paper was
coming up and I just thought that's lovely and, you know, we
don't need to, you know, put that person down because we have
a view on sats made maybe that we think as a whole perhaps
there's a better way that we could be, assessing the
children, especially, you know, Key Stage, 1 set, when they're
six and they're doing a year to SATs.
But you know, it also, there is a body of thought that these
tests prepare them for secondary school, where tests become way
more important way. More high stakes.
When it comes to GCSE, kind of gives them a bit of a dry run.
And if they're going to have that anxiety around testing, why
not have it at this point when they are old enough to kind of
understand what's going on, you know, that they're very mature.
Lot of the ten and eleven year old who are doing it, get over
that hopefully earlier get the help, they need the support they
need, but still do it. And then when it comes to doing
Secondary School tests, it's way more kind of par for the course.
And, you know, they're more used to doing it.
I can honestly say I have spoken to loads of children this week
who are Just thoroughly enjoying it, to be honest with you.
I just saw they often enjoy, but you know, it's like I said,
there's two sides to every coin. There are children also that are
stressed and nervous and, and that they're the children that
we kind of focus on sometimes when we talk about negative
sides of SATs still an auto ask you a question, is the question
I get asked all the time by your success?
I don't know what your recyclables.
Yeah. Wait, it's coming up. 92% in
this podcast. Now, of me being bold.
So I get asked this all the time by the children and parents to
be fair. I don't know what your answer
is, not. Being the Essex teacher?
Are you over 45? No, I made that one up, done.
It is and you probably you probably heard as well.
It is, what's the point of the SATs?
What would be your response like as well?
Okay, I'm not on your 62 point. The set from my point of view,
the the three-point, the SATs. Like we said it tracks
children's attainment of how, well, they know the key stage 2,
curriculum in English and maths. That's that's the base one.
It tracks their progress from progress points in the key
stage, 1 sets up to Key Stage 2. So that's I would say also it
adds kind of not hidden. But a lesser known value.
Let's say and we can talk about the value of this, but it is
used for predicted grades. Isn't it in secondary school?
It's used as a metric for that. I know you go to secondary
school and lots of, you know, schools will have their own way
of, you know, taking tests in the first few weeks to set the
children. However they want to set them.
Don't necessarily use your SATs data, but that data is still
logged, a big event website and it's still used for Progress.
Like we said, it's used for out primary school and the key stage
2 sets. We can see how much That
progressed that's just another point in the scale where they
carry on learning in secondary school and it's used again to
track their progress. Right?
But yeah that's basically what I say to George and I just say
look I look at your key stage 1 Day to all the time just to make
sure that you know people are getting to the right place.
If you came up and as greater depths of those aren't listening
greater depth is kind of like working, well above average in
an area. Then I want to make sure, you
know, you're being pushed in your on track to get to Greater
depth still because that shows good progress and I'll say the
same thing happens. Now to your key stage 3,
teachers. We'll have access to this data
and it gives them a snapshot into like, you know, your
ability and and there will be held accountable to make sure,
you know, ensure that you're making progress through key
stage 3. And that's the kind of the spill
I give to them. But so often I get this, like,
they'll come and be like, yeah, well my mom told me that it's
just for the school and spellings of you don't really
need to do it. Don't worry about it.
I get it all the time and part of me is like, yeah, don't worry
about it then. Because I'm not gonna put all
the pressure on you, you know, I'll say to them what I just
said about. Yeah, it's a little bit
important because it keeps you keeps a straight.
But ultimately, Yeah, yeah, it's for the school and we really
want you to do. Well, you know, I we want, we
want to show off how well you've done at our school.
And I'll just say that and they usually like, well fair enough.
It was mostly for us because it's right back to the beginning
of this conversation. It is mostly for us because
we're paid on it. Our schools judged on it.
Okay? Of course it's for us.
I really enjoyed that chat is really good because as an
on-year, six teacher, but someone in the primary school
setting, I know we're working towards that and I know it's a
journey for the whole of Key Stage, 2 and yeah, so thanks for
that. I always find interesting when
staff, when it comes around to search results SLT will make a
really nice concerted effort to say but it's everyone's, you
know, it's the whole school journey and it really is, but
even as someone who's not in year six, I kind of sometimes
want to say, Yeah, but mainly it's thank you.
So all you year, six teachers out there.
Yes. It's a whole Key Stage 2 thing.
But at the end of the day you're the guys slogging away for that
final push and we appreciate you but not Hayden but everyone else
we appreciate you was about to say, thanks.
But not now. Yes, you know you do, all right
pal. You do it right.
You got feel time now for eight weeks so I'm sure that with
plain yeah. That's like I hope this in year
six teachers listening to this thinking.
Yeah, posts that's life if the the stress that's gonna wear a
little bit. We usually do.
Pharmacist, schools. That's quite a common thing in
your six. I don't know where that came
from, by the way, that's it's a very bizarre thing, but it just
seems to be English culture. That's lovely.
You're 61 like it performance or something.
It's almost as if they said, okay, I understand how much
we've been doing maths and English.
Let's do something completely different or going to do the
Arts, and I think it's lovely. Just, you know, some children
really, really loved and it Sparks something is true.
Someone said to me before, because I was like, oh we
probably shouldn't do because that's not like the curriculum
properly and they were like yeah, it is.
But all we've done is we've condensed a lot of the mass in
English into a slightly smaller Smaller time frame, and probably
sacrifice some of those other subjects but we're going to do
those. Other subjects were not going to
miss them. Out of the year.
We're going to do them more afterwards and I was like OK
that kind of makes sense like we're still covering the right
things which is doing them in a different order and and the
spoken word is English, it's still English and its drama its
social skills. I think it's brilliant.
I think it's a really cool thing.
And again, another step outside the comfort zone.
I'm a big fan of controlled, stepping out of a compass that
comfort zone and As a school, we can do that to a degree.
In terms of, you know, it's definitely comfort zone.
Doing the test, maybe feel a bit anxious stepping over that
coping with it. Getting the right help.
Get more, I support. I think it's the same when it
comes to drama and won't, we did a drama and secondary school,
massively helped my confidence, a hugely and I loved it.
And it just, you know, I think that's something we can do in
our job and that is as useful as teaching them how to add a three
digit number and a seven digit number.
In my opinion, fair enough, even if we have this skewed idea of
value, You, because of the way, the thing works, you're
absolutely right. It is just as valuable.
So, moving onto another conversation.
I just, I know we talked about this all the time.
Our listeners might be like, a, for God's sake over at this
point, but it's still relevant. Okay, this we've had all the
strikes, obviously, you know, if it's like your hair, this is
93%. If you're listening to this way
in the future, then you might, you know, might just be a
distant memory now about the strikes.
It might still be going on to Missouri where the government
has taken this. It, we might still be striking
for the next six years but make no one's listening.
Now, never mind. But Someone put a post on our
like a Facebook group by over a week ago now, and I saved it
because I knew I wanted to talk about it.
I should have read it to you, right?
And I just think it just highlights the what we were
talking about in a previous episode.
Here we go. This person said I'm 26, I've
been teaching for 4 years. Always wanted to be a teacher.
My question is has teaching always been like this.
I have zero disposable income. I work every hour, God sends, I
get good results, I work all the time.
I work hard. Yet we can never seem to afford
a holiday. I can't even pay off my student.
Overdraft, I can't even pay off the interest of my student loan.
I barely have any money left at the end of the month at school.
They have to ration glue sticks as we talked about before.
And so, you know, the last 20 glue sticks until summer,
there's no scissors left and they'll put and they said,
they'll probably just have end up paying for our own pocket
because it's not worth the hassle doing a school and they
finish by saying I grew up under new labor.
And I'm not saying my education was perfect but I can remember
it being better than this. I can remember not having to
rush and glue sticks and that was the kind of Tyler we grew
up, you know, we grew up around then and yeah, it was that was
when everything you came in and we got smart boards.
We've got computer sweets, we suddenly got those massive
Jungle Gym, things in the in the playgrounds and in our school
halls and stuff. And we didn't have to ration
this and that, and it was, you know, this person is basically
saying it was a good time. Was it always like this, like,
what was I under some sort of Illusion and and, and they I
quit because that's just ridiculous.
They can't afford. So they need to go find another
job because it's not worth it. It makes me feel so many
different like emotions genuinely, because I don't care
will get political again because it is political.
Right? Is political The Squeeze on this
public service that we live in that.
We know because we literally work, it has been so devastating
and it makes me so angry that we don't collectively think as a
country that our children deserve the absolute best, not
just what we can afford. Ish because we can still afford
other stuff but I'm going to say it's what we can afford.
Not what we kind of think is okay.
No, I children deserve the literal best and she's
absolutely right and it's not gross tinted glasses.
It's the fact because I speak to my parents about their time in
school and older people, and they have very negative
connotations of school, usually, because they used to get hit
around the head with a chalkboard, not a chalkboard,
they get hit on the head there and then, you know, they would
say how they just Skydive it. Just rubbish.
That was the teachers, you know, we're horrible to them,
etcetera. My time in school was
unbelievable and we constantly got new stuff and it wasn't like
a coincidence that I have such a positive memory of school.
I don't think. And I remember it, like, the
computer sweets coming in. Must have cost so much money
back then and she's right. It's not a political thing.
No one can sit there and say to me.
Oh, you're just a lefty woky teacher.
You sharp. Now, it's just true.
It's just a fact. So if you can't deal with the
fact, you need to get over yourself.
The amount of money. Knee in schools right now.
He Doom. Sorry is so much less and the
biggest worry I have. I've talked to my friend about
this every day, I'm genuinely worried.
Now that it's been so long of cuts Cuts Cuts cuts, it is
literally insurmountable like the amount of money you'd have
to now pour back in just to get back to 2010 levels.
Never mind, 1990s is actually no longer no longer affordable.
We are actually no longer afford, we have been riding off
of the back of all that money, we pumped in the 90s for.
So, Long. Now, there's a reason that
there's a whole mean culture around house.
Primary schools, look exactly the same as they did 25 years
ago. Did you know, why?
Because they look exactly the same.
As I did 25 years ago because everything we got new then is
still the things we use now because we can't afford new
stuff, you know? It's the same.
It's the same smart balls that I got when I was a probably when I
was 10 that we use on the walls now, you know, and then like you
said, the amount of money, it must have cost to go from
nothing to that. That, you know, in such a short
space of Time Versus the last 20 years, where we've barely barely
upgraded these things and said, oh, that's not enough money in
the budget, we got cut a bit more.
It's ridiculous with you're right.
We need so much money now to actually go to the next level.
You know, if we wanted to school, look a bit different,
it's the same kind of thing, you know, with any you saying and
the junior doctors saying that they're asking for the junior
doctors asked for 35% pay, rise, and the rationale behind it was
because that gets them back to 2010 levels.
And it, and someone said, is that an unreasonable?
Ask and the and the guy I remember watching he's like, no,
it's not unreasonable. I've just completely reasonable
to say. Oh can I get paid the same as
what I was getting paid. 12 years ago, please, it is.
That is that okay? Like that's completely
reasonable, it may not be realistic because of the state
this country is in but it's completely reasonable.
Isn't it to say? Oh, can I have the life that my
parents literally had or is actually going to be
continuously harder for me? Because if a society has a name
at all, surely it's to make life better as time goes on.
Not to shoot itself in the foot by voting for brexit and then
pretending everything's fine after.
Oh, lots of pictures I had today, I've got to say this
right now. God, the David Davis, the guy
who used to be used to be the brexit secretary for the
conservative party, big brexit here.
Some was basically listing off this thing these things to him
that's worse because of brexit and it's not even you know where
five years down, those six seven years down the line.
Now from brexit vote and four years down the line from
actually leaving or whatever it is.
Like there is actual data now but it's not just a projection
that life's going to get worse. There's actually data now where
it is life's got worse and it's because of these things that
came from brexit. So this guy's reading off the
list, you know the the cues in Dover, the limited amount of
time you have over in the European countries.
Now the loss in trade the the amount of money we've lost
because it's no longer easy. Just to trade with our biggest
trading partner and his response made me want to reach through
the camera and give him a piece of my mind because his Ponce was
back in 2019 when they 2016, sorry.
George Osborne said that it's going to cost each family, 4,000
pounds brexit and that was the scaremongering then and I went
back to my house where there were Builders working on a
building site and one of the build is said to me, 4,000
pounds The Cost of Freedom that's good by me.
What? Like I said, his response to the
list of things that's worse because of practice, it was.
Yeah. But people don't mind because
it's their freedom, this one guy and I this one guy, I met didn't
mind, so everyone doesn't mind. Yeah, it was probably, you know,
I think he even said by the way that he was like, the, the
project manager, the guy, who's probably on 90k doing this job
for four grand, for our freedom, what are you talking about?
You're free. Adam.
What do what are you on about, LOL, less free.
Now make you have to work more together.
T around. Yeah, what are you talking
about? Honestly, yeah, I just it
Beggars belief. It really does well relating
back to that post that I read you two things.
Really? I want to come back to student
debt. Maybe I'll talk about that
another time, but someone in my family recently got into
teaching and she's like, she's really, really intelligent
woman, and she bawled, she knows she's not born yet.
My family's both actually, okay, Fun, Factory one.
You might have thought that I understand why people have
assumed that. But yeah, she's not because and
94%. So she recently got into
teaching she qualified last year and secondaries teaching
science. So I call a very important
subject. Science is something that people
are screaming out for as well. I saw some again, just a slight
side point here, some of the other day was talking about how
their science department has not been fully staffed for like
eight years or something. Like as they just cannot get the
staff. Half the specialists in to do is
to teach science properly. Why would you why exactly?
And this one about to say, proves exactly that because she
did one year one year teaching and then on reflection went.
Wow, this workload is ridiculous.
The pay doesn't remotely reflect it.
The media just despises us and doesn't remotely show us in the
right light. So, see you later.
I'm gonna go be a chartered accountant.
Exactly what I said before. Skilled professionals the people
we need because we want to Give our children, the best
education. Don't want to do this job
because they can get paid more doing other things government.
That's why we need more money. It's not so that I can line my
pockets. It's to extract better people to
this profession to teach the future carried.
You can line your pockets and take a lot of pockets that is
part of it. Okay.
But there's so much more to it. I hate I hate the state of what
we're in. I i summarize why I strike.
I remember this in last episode, but it's my new go-to now
because I've kind of I've kind of tried to narrow down.
Why I'm striking many when asked me, and I'm striking to keep
this job. You know, you gotta remember the
way you said it. You forgot it to keep the job in
the in the because the Builder, I spoke to said the 4,000 pounds
is worth. The freedom is something by
saying how I've really narrowed it down to something.
So say that I remember what you said to make this job, something
that you still want to do basically like, Yeah, so that's
it. I've fought the word now that
I'm striking because I want to keep this job desirable for me
to do. I'm not, I'm not striking
because I just am greedy and I'm at all.
I have a couple hundred quid. Although it would be nice.
Another couple hundred quid are give her Pockets because I'm
striking, because I want to want to do this job.
That's why I said, I'm striking because I want to want to do
this job and very soon, very soon that want to do the job
will be lower than the rear. Mystic like what you said with,
your family member, the realistic liar of a job doing
something else. Exactly.
Therefore less stress and more money will very soon.
Be overtaking it, if not already, and I'm just kind of
ignoring it. Yeah, I fully agree that there
is a point. I know what my skill set is.
And so do you because we're eight years into this career, I
know that my skill set is. I know I'm capable of there is
going to be a point eventually where if this pay keep
stagnating, I will be stupid not to go and take the job.
That pays double that requires my skill set.
Yeah, you know, that's that. That's business.
That's business baby, that's how it works.
But it is true, isn't it? It's a pit of people always say
and this is true because it's why we're still here right now.
Teachers Do It For the Love of the year.
We do it because we love the job, and that is true.
But there is a line. There is a point in which people
won't do that anymore, because it's so silly to do it based on
the workload in the pay that they're they're obviously,
they'll just go do something else and be like, oh, it would
have been nice to be a teacher, but I'm not stupid.
And I do want to pay for my house that I live in.
So I went and did this. I'm going to became a chartered.
Yeah, it's like there's certain percentage.
I'm not going to put a number on it right now but you know, if
someone offered me a 10%, pay rise to go and do a job in an
office somewhere that I thought might be more boring.
I absolutely wouldn't take it. I'd be like now that's that's
not the threshold, right? There's just not.
I do love this job. I don't want to go into a new
career path. 12 million pounds, I'll be there when I, but my
point is, you do when you are, someone are, would you are, but
you drink a cup of off Milk, 450 Equivalent know and you're like,
well, okay, we did it for 1,000 pounds, but yeah, obviously 900.
Yeah, you find that, they don't read.
Find the line. Jellify, the limit, I'm
wondering what while it would be in the job.
I think, you know, it wouldn't be that much though.
It would just be enough to be like, oh well, that's just,
that's, that's going to make a significant change to my life
and my pay the government treat us.
Absolutely terribly. And don't want to listen to us.
I'll give us anything that's remotely useful.
So at what point do you say, okay, I love this.
Stop packing. You know what I can point it as
well. It's a shame that, you know,
opposites there's so many of us that on an individual level.
It feels like it doesn't really make an impact, but I'd love to
be like cool by the way, really skilled at this job, because I
do it for eight years, I'm leaving, and you're going to get
someone else in. They might be as good as me.
They might not be good luck with a gamble, I'm gonna go do
something else. Like I always put your but that
they don't care because they will just, you know, get someone
else. But you do, I don't care.
Because I'm getting now. And again, I'll guys I don't
think, well, I'm saying this. I'm not detrimental to eat it.
EC T's at all. We absolutely.
Lee Thrive off, these amazing young people who come into our
profession but they are you just need the balance of them and if
we are constantly swapping extremely experienced Primary
School staff for ects constantly rate which is outstripping, then
our profession becomes more inexperienced, there's not
enough people for you guys to learn off.
There's not enough people for you to inspire us again because
that keeps us fresh when. When when new teachers come in,
I love it. I love talking to them because
they have these ideas that I had five years ago.
That's slow. Olli of just eroded because I'm
more concentrate on the job now and it's just like a breath of
fresh air, but you need that kind of synergy you need that
right balance. And the more that we take away
those experienced teachers it's just going to have a detrimental
effect in a profession. Okay.
So I've got story was a message in a couple of weeks ago but
obviously where I need to get a chance to say now so Hayden.
It's just a story from the classroom, one of the classic
ones, we love it because as well this person's wrote it in a way
where I can just read off the phone because that's always good
here. Is guys, there is got my little
story in a single unified. You're going to sing the jingle
to throw some Carson. Now that we've got video audio,
okay? He's ready.
Here we go. Yeah, stories from the
Classroom. If you've got a story for us and
it's really funny tell us the story and we will give you money
money, not guaranteed. The fact that you did just make
that up is quite impressive nice and long again, fits with our
podcast. I'm not finished.
That was a dramatic interlude, right?
God, I've buzzing for a story. Have another story ages.
Okay, this is a good one, this is good.
So okay, let me set the scene, so I'm the teacher now.
Okay? Okay, right right, this isn't my
thory. Obviously, this is someone that
I'm pretending to be. Here we go.
Let me set the scene re day. We do a full day focused around
one element of Let just education for us.
We're learning about Islam to be specific.
We're actually learning about the prophet Muhammad and his
important to the Islamic faith. A sensitive subject.
Something you need to approach with maturity and respect one
boy in my class, lovely. As he is likes to think he's a
bit of a Class Clown at times and he likes to play up to an
audience. He'd spent most of the morning
trying to call out little quips and make jokes here and there
that he thought to be hilarious such as in response to my
question. Okay, what do we know about
Muhammad? He'd reply?
O Muhammad Salazar? Well, good footballer, classic
response. Trying to be funny anyway after
a while of trying to humor his attempts of being funny, it was
beginning to get irritating, we know that feeling right when
someone just won't let it go, you kind of give them an inch
and they take a mile and you're like oh I shouldn't have done
that in the first place. So after its attempts, trying to
be funny trying to humor him, it was beginning to get irritating
and it was more importantly, detracting from the learning now
so it's distracting other children.
So he'd explained. Sorry.
It, her patients was waning, I'd explained the role of a prophet.
Was to spread the message of God.
Up goes the boy's hand again after me telling him to stop.
What he's up to. So tentatively I asked him what
he wanted to say and his reply was so Muhammad's a bit like
Hermes then at this point I was done.
I held in my desire to shout out it's not even Hermes.
Now the delivery service it's called every and I told him to
stop trying to be funny and focus on what we're learning
about sheepishly. He stopped talking and looked at
me like I done something wrong. Our girl, the angel child put
her hand up so the profit is a little bit like the Greek God
Hermes. This point I realized that my
class Cloud, that's that my class clown had been making the
most meaningful Learning Link to their prior learning of the
Greek gods. Thank you wanted made all day
and that ever done before, and I absolutely register in front of
the whole class for it public. That's a classic thing.
Jumping the gun. They just had a whole, you know,
God said he was making this unbelievable.
Cross-curricular link. Stop it.
Stop that howdy. It's not even called that's
called every now. Luckily the teacher didn't say
that they just they managed to hold that energy Spike.
Stop, stop doing that. But it's absolutely crap me out
there and it made me think of so many times before in the
classroom I've done it before like to the extremes as well.
Where a child will say put the hand up and said, how can I go
to the toilet? I'm like, yeah, sure.
A middle of doing something. Yeah, sure.
They stand up. Walk across the classroom and I
go, why don't you see? And they just got you just said,
I could go to the toilet and I've said it before.
Did I they say yes? I'm like, okay, so the point
now, where someone could just say to me, I'd be like, wait to
see. They could literally just say to
me. Oh, you just told me.
I'll go to the toilet and I believe them.
Okay. Yeah, a few weeks ago, I had a
very similar situation, right? I've boy in my class, who is who
can sometimes get himself in trouble but he's nice enough
boy, he wanted to show his work. To the Head teacher, he doesn't
make it work. I was like.
Yeah, awesome. But I was kind of in the middle
of doing something. When he asked I think I was like
getting the register ready or something.
So I can I go and she can, I go show this to head?
Teacher was like, yeah, brilliant course.
Yeah, go on off. You go.
Yep. Carried on doing the things I
was doing and then he came back into class like a 55 minutes
later and I instantly went. Oh, why are you coming back in
late thinking that he'd like interesting out during lunchtime
or something and he'd been naughty and he's hope, you know
that he's coming back into class because the head teacher sent it
back as I want. I was putting on my Stern faces
to be like, you know, really disappointed that, but, you
know, I've been bad behavior choice.
And he really sheepish. He's went.
I was just asking, I was just using my work and I was like,
oh, of course I did. I'm so sorry.
Importantly, I literally just
apologized. I'm really sorry.
I don't know why I jumped at you like that, and that's the other
thing I thought about. When I read that story, I was
like, I think that's so important to the children and it
jokes aside about. I made that mistake on purpose.
I think when you do something like that, Because that is a
position of power there, isn't it?
And you've got the power and you can, you know, tell someone off,
because you're in charge. I think when you do that
incorrectly and wrongly, I think it's so powerful.
Just to say, to the children, oh, I'm really sorry.
That was my, I was wrong. Yeah, you've done nothing wrong.
I'm sorry rather than brush it off because I think as soon as
you brush it off you kind of lose that respect then yeah
church is later on down the line.
So when you when you have to actually tell them it's going to
hold more weight when you say no no no you do.
You have to stop doing that because of this and that
children, like you said you mentioned it earlier but they're
more mature than you think they cleverer than you think they are
at the age. They are they might seem like
small and cute and silly sometimes what they say.
But with those sorts of things they're not silly, they do know
when you're clearly just liking it and you actually just wrong
and you're embarrassed, you don't?
You just want to get it. So I agree.
Always add up to your mistakes honest.
Unless you are having a literal that exact a joke that we
mentioned, where you pretend that you're making a mistake,
it's a massive mistake. On the board is different is
that you having a laugh? But we've All mistakes that you
make, yeah. Okay.
You might be a bit embarrassed because you just made a mistake
in front of 30 kids, say, sorry, and own up to it because even if
they go that I promise you, they won't do it for many times.
They might find it funny. The first time we teach men
mistake once or twice though, but again there anymore, who
cares? If you're a bit embarrassed that
that's a feeling people feel. Sometimes they would feel
embarrassed because you wrongly told them that they did
something, they didn't exactly just just own up to it.
I'd something today, very similar where, you know, I had
to Remind someone of the right behavior in class A few times in
a row, someone that doesn't normally need reminding.
And they, when I when I then said, okay, look, you've done
this this, this repeatedly and you're really letting me down
here and add a little bit of spiel about how, you know, I
don't expect that from from anyone, especially I must say,
I've never expected from you, something like that, you know,
that kind of just saying, this is unacceptable though.
And I've never had to use this kind of tone with you before,
but that needs to stop. Yeah, and I loved it.
Because immediately this child said, I'm really sorry and they
really meant it. And I was like that that right
there that moment of them saying, sorry is the exact
reason why? As as teachers we need to be
apologetic and say, sorry, because that was really nice
because, you know, what children do their children.
They're a bit, you know, upset about something.
I don't like being told off and they won't say, sorry.
They'll just kind of go into their own little introspective
cave and be like or say, oh, it wasn't me do the opposite and
just kind of reflect anything. But that moment of this child
saying, oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
Mister Price. I was like, cool.
It's over. Now it immediately over.
I feel much better. Thank you so much.
You still might have to do this for me, my have to do that
because you did cross the line too much, but I made a huge
point of big and I said, thank you.
I really appreciate that and I thought that was really a model
of it. Saying, sorry isn't just the
thing is actually, thank you, but you knew worse.
Yeah, I know, we're going to end of our podcast.
I've got one sort of heartwarming but just a nice
thing that happened actually this week that I have just
thought of based on your story there.
I'm going to share with you. But before I do that, if you
want to write in your story, These, we've got something funny
to share, even if you think, oh, maybe it's not funny, right?
It in any way. Okay.
If we think it's rubbish, we won't read it.
All right, so don't worry about it, I'm joking, I'm joking, I'm
joking we won't but you can write into us at our dinner, I'm
gonna get it wrong again. You've heard some if you've
heard some of the stories we've read.
Yeah, there's a pretty low bar, right dinner?
Correct me if I'm wrong, is I'm terrible.
Because you know why did I just say that?
I know. I'm never going to learn so our
Instagram. Not that.
No, it's teach sleep. Repeat pod.
No past, just do it. Ellen just do it right.
Instagram. Teach, sleep, repeat podcast.
Email. Is that repeat part at,
gmail.com? What you've got to remember?
Hayden, yeah. Is I made it longer when it was
shorter when it didn't have the end rhyme.
That's what I was trying to think.
And I couldn't remember what you said.
So the bulk of it is longer when there's no Gmail at the end.
Okay, so Hayden, what it? Tell the viewers and listeners,
and the creeps and where We're going to call you.
It's quite grown name. I'm staring at you.
Now, if I swear, I swear if you're watching this right now
and you see me staring into your soul, I can't believe you just
sit for an hour and watch this video of us just sitting here.
I appreciate you. But I don't know what you think.
You could tell your friends and come watch it.
You could tell them I wouldn't yeah after I wouldn't but you
could because we do want more people to watch and listen.
So, that would be nice. I'm not gonna embarrass
yourself. Didn't you said, what the, the
handles are? And I'm not gonna do it, I'll do
it. I'll practice for next week, but
I'm going to finish up with a little story, okay.
It's just really it's basically continuing from the
conversation. We just had so sorry for
completely ruining the flow. I had today, I spoke to somebody
that I teach and I had a really nice conversation based on a
reflection of a conversation. We'd had three four months ago,
right? And this is a child who
continuously continuously gets himself in trouble.
I particularly like this child and I think they're a lovely
lovely young person, but they always seem to get themselves in
trouble like wrong place, wrong time and also just doing silly
things all this, we all know the type that Tweet.
And, and as your 6, I found that I could have with particular
children, if I sort of identify their maturity, as a being quite
mature, I will have this conversation with them, right?
If I won't do it with younger because I don't think it's
beneficial yet. And basically, I sat down with
him and he'd been like, sent out, or something like that.
And I happened to be walking for our side past.
I said, why are you know what's going on?
You've been set out again and he had a bit of a bit of a tear
and, you know, we had it with a chat and I just explained to
him, that reputation is important.
I need because we have this thing of like do, yeah, everyone
is be treated the same on this be treated the same, but I just
broke it to the him in the, in the real world.
By the way, everyone just has a reputation and whether you like
it or not, you'll be treated differently differently based on
our reputation. Not necessarily on purpose,
that's when it gets into problem area.
But subliminally, people will treat you differently.
And I said, do you think maybe the reason that you know, you've
been caught or whatever doing or sent out so quickly recently of
these lessons? Because he was really frustrated
that other people have done what he did, but he will send out.
Out. I said, yeah, because your
reputation is not good at the moment.
People have got shorter fuses with you and they don't mean to
do it, but people have got short of users with you because of
your reputation recently where you have been doing silly
things. You've been making silly
decisions at any possible opportunity, and I had this
conversation with him and he did really understand.
He was like, yeah, okay. That makes sense.
They're not just picking on me because that's what people think
all that teachers picking on me. No, they're not, they didn't
even think about it. It's just, that your reputation
has led them to believe that you've done something silly
quicker, maybe that they would do.
The child that never gets in trouble.
Never gets in trouble, they've got more leeway because they've
got a good reputation and since then this particular child has
really thought about it and came up to me today and said, mrs.
Stephens have you noticed I was like what?
I've been in a lot less trouble recently as I do.
That's really good. He was like my reputations
getting better, isn't it? It is it is getting better.
Well done. You like people people and I
said and you get a fresh start you know?
When you go to your next school, you're gonna get a fresh start,
and your, you know, your reputation is whatever you
choose to 4G. I said, but so I'm so proud of
you for right now, trying to better your reputation.
So that people don't treat you in a different way automatically
based on their experiences if you in the past and I was really
really proud of him. And I was so impressed.
That you know I thought that was part of it at the time frame the
conversation is like it did. None of this is going and he's
just thinking he's just annoyed that you got sent out but
really, really listen to it. And that just made my day and
that's what those and again we talk about those reasons.
I love this job and why I wouldn't go into an office job
for, you know, ten percent more money.
It's those little, those little moments like that.
I try telling Steve from accounts, those reputations bad,
you won't change it. Exactly.
When you get out, you're arrogant by then stubborn.
This kid I listened and I loved that moment and I hope it wasn't
pretty. Sorry no.
Did it really did actually that was really nice.
In fact, if I was standing assembly, now I'd be crying, but
I'm not, but now that's that's lovely and and it is I'm just
going to kind of one thing. With that, it is so true and
it's nice to teach them that kind of personal accountability.
A sometimes we could fall into the Trap of pointing at everyone
else, and being like, you're doing this wrong to me, which as
you said is really important, because sometimes it is way past
the line discrimination, all that kind of stuff, it's
completely wrong than them. And there's no victim blaming at
all there, but if someone has a pattern of getting themselves
into trouble because of choices, they're making such a powerful
thing, you've opened up for him. There is to think he has
control. Over that and he seen the
benefits. And, you know, that's the kind
of thing in 5, 10, 15 years, he might still remember.
And like you said, you're going to maybe remember that story and
that's why this job is amazing. And if you notice, I will say
that I'm really careful of and I talked about this sort of thing
because if you're not are the right, sort of maturity, I can
understand why. Child might just go ahead and
say let's teach us, I've got a bad reputation and they're
picking on me for it because he has to be have to be really
careful because that's not what it is.
Like you said that, you know, There is it?
There is a fine line between having a bad reputation and
actually people just being discriminatory towards you for
whatever reason, so you don't want to teach a child that if
you're being discriminated against, it's okay, it's your
fault. Like that's a really, really,
really bad thing to teach be. So true cannot do that.
But the idea of reputation, I think he was old enough to
understand it and it all stems from my experience at school.
I did the same thing. I did the thing I was at
secondary school and I'd always come home.
I was that annoying kid, I'll be like, yes, he's picking on me.
Teach picking on me. They sent me out because I did
this. Our children.
I was always like that and looking back at it, I feel like
such an idiot is that, of course, they sent me out is
because I messed around 50 times in the in the previous four
weeks, do you know what I mean? So I've yeah, of course they had
a shorter fuse of me because I constantly showed them that I
was a nuisance. They won't pick it up and it's
all your still insufferable. So we will end the podcasts
there. Thanks for listening.
See you next week, guys.