1 00:00:00,090 --> 00:00:02,260 Hello everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Teach 2 00:00:02,270 --> 00:00:04,820 Steeply Bite Size Hayden. Hello. 3 00:00:04,950 --> 00:00:07,360 Hello, you. You sounded a bit down then you 4 00:00:07,370 --> 00:00:10,690 sounded really like, hey guys, this is like another episode, 5 00:00:10,700 --> 00:00:13,880 man and stuff. And listen, there's been a blur, 6 00:00:13,890 --> 00:00:15,820 Hayden, but a blur. We're back. 7 00:00:15,830 --> 00:00:17,080 You're back. And I'm. 8 00:00:17,130 --> 00:00:19,540 I tried to do all my own. I did do one on my own. 9 00:00:19,550 --> 00:00:21,130 I try. I succeeded. 10 00:00:21,140 --> 00:00:24,560 You saw, You listened. And then I listened to about 10 11 00:00:24,570 --> 00:00:27,220 seconds of it. Most of our listeners probably 12 00:00:27,230 --> 00:00:30,710 just like it's just. Yeah, I got the gist. 13 00:00:30,780 --> 00:00:34,810 Yeah, I realised I wasn't in it and I thought, hang on, there's 14 00:00:34,820 --> 00:00:38,470 no point, no point In a second I was changing poo for the fourth 15 00:00:38,480 --> 00:00:41,390 time in a row. Ohh man, do you know what? 16 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:44,850 Listen to our main episode that's coming out in a few days 17 00:00:44,860 --> 00:00:47,830 time because we'll we'll give you a nice update on the baby 18 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:49,870 situation. It's been there's a reason we 19 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:52,450 look like this. I just gonna say I think you 20 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:55,610 just anyone who's watching this episode might get a little idea 21 00:00:55,620 --> 00:00:58,610 of where we are mentally. Right now I've been trying to 22 00:00:58,670 --> 00:01:01,280 shave my head and face for like 3 days is the most. 23 00:01:01,290 --> 00:01:04,260 It's such a small task and I and I haven't done it. 24 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:05,790 I'm sat here recording a podcast. 25 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:10,200 Apparently that takes important. I've been trying to just do this 26 00:01:10,270 --> 00:01:11,970 simple job. Yeah, let's talk for half an 27 00:01:11,980 --> 00:01:13,710 hour about it instead of doing it for 2 minutes. 28 00:01:15,350 --> 00:01:16,560 Ohh. Anyways, yeah, go on the guest, 29 00:01:16,570 --> 00:01:18,080 get into the episode. So we've got a really quick bite 30 00:01:18,090 --> 00:01:22,540 sized one today and we've got our well top five I guess things 31 00:01:22,550 --> 00:01:25,700 that you can do consider before you quit teaching. 32 00:01:25,710 --> 00:01:28,960 So Dylan, you wanna say anything before we dive into our list? 33 00:01:28,970 --> 00:01:31,740 Yeah, I think this is borne out of something that we've really 34 00:01:31,750 --> 00:01:35,740 both experienced over the years. Because, you know, again, in in 35 00:01:35,750 --> 00:01:38,150 a future episode very close, we've got one lined up that 36 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:40,200 we're going to talk about how much teaching has changed over 37 00:01:40,210 --> 00:01:43,060 the years and not necessarily always for the best in terms of 38 00:01:43,070 --> 00:01:45,780 well-being, etc. And even outcomes and stuff like 39 00:01:45,790 --> 00:01:47,440 that. But putting that aside, it's 40 00:01:47,450 --> 00:01:50,590 kind of the theme I suppose is a lot of people listening to this 41 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:54,010 will be feeling very similarly and especially teachers, but I 42 00:01:54,020 --> 00:01:56,710 think even people just in their day-to-day jobs, I don't it's 43 00:01:56,720 --> 00:02:00,130 not, it's not something that is just teachers feel we've become 44 00:02:00,140 --> 00:02:02,650 like disenfranchised and just a bit like, well, what am I, why 45 00:02:02,660 --> 00:02:04,250 am I doing this? What's the point? 46 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:06,610 And we talked to a lot of teachers. 47 00:02:06,620 --> 00:02:08,520 Obviously a lot of our friends and teachers we've been teaching 48 00:02:08,530 --> 00:02:10,729 for the best part of a decade. So we know a lot of teachers and 49 00:02:10,740 --> 00:02:12,890 you guys listening get in touch with us as well. 50 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:16,490 And I think you get to that point where you just think, OK, 51 00:02:16,500 --> 00:02:18,810 I'm going to quit. There's enough. 52 00:02:18,870 --> 00:02:20,300 Hadn't had enough. I've been there. 53 00:02:20,690 --> 00:02:23,500 We've been there. You know we would be lying if we 54 00:02:23,510 --> 00:02:25,840 both said that we hadn't previously thought Is it best 55 00:02:25,850 --> 00:02:28,820 for us to quit and. Thinking about some of these 56 00:02:28,830 --> 00:02:32,040 tips that we're gonna say like I've done a few of these I think 57 00:02:32,090 --> 00:02:34,100 like and it has helped me not just quit. 58 00:02:34,110 --> 00:02:37,620 So hopefully, hopefully, it'll be helpful for that's the 59 00:02:37,630 --> 00:02:39,970 summary before we get into the list for anyone listening what's 60 00:02:39,980 --> 00:02:41,660 the episode going to be about? It's OK. 61 00:02:41,730 --> 00:02:44,140 Listen, we're in a point where you're starting to think this 62 00:02:44,150 --> 00:02:45,520 profession is no longer what it was. 63 00:02:45,530 --> 00:02:46,740 And you, you kind of want to leave. 64 00:02:46,810 --> 00:02:49,580 Yeah, but you just have that inkling, that thing that keeps 65 00:02:49,590 --> 00:02:52,290 you like the reason we're still teaching Hayden is because we 66 00:02:52,300 --> 00:02:54,530 love so much of it. So here are some really 67 00:02:54,540 --> 00:02:58,320 practical steps as to what you can do before you actually take 68 00:02:58,330 --> 00:03:01,530 the plunge and quit. That might turn a corner and and 69 00:03:01,540 --> 00:03:04,730 let's keep you in this career because guys, we need fantastic 70 00:03:04,740 --> 00:03:06,850 teachers and we're losing them left, right and centre. 71 00:03:06,860 --> 00:03:10,630 So Hayden, kick us off. What's the first thing we can do 72 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:13,510 to just, you know, get us back on the straight and narrow and 73 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:15,500 stay in the profession before we decide to quit? 74 00:03:15,510 --> 00:03:17,750 What's going to help us? OK, this one's quite personal to 75 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:22,180 me. You don't have to climb that 76 00:03:22,190 --> 00:03:24,100 ladder. You don't have to do it. 77 00:03:24,450 --> 00:03:26,970 If you've got responsibilities, maybe you've even you've taken 78 00:03:26,980 --> 00:03:29,770 them already and you're thinking, I'm overworked. 79 00:03:29,780 --> 00:03:31,830 I'm overwhelmed. I'm actually not really enjoying 80 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:33,820 this role. I'm not enjoying what I'm doing. 81 00:03:34,530 --> 00:03:35,800 You, you know, drop it if you can. 82 00:03:35,810 --> 00:03:36,840 Obviously it's not as easy as that. 83 00:03:36,850 --> 00:03:39,760 Sometimes it might take a bit of time to phase out of that role. 84 00:03:39,810 --> 00:03:42,370 But don't be afraid to do that. Your happiness is so much more 85 00:03:42,380 --> 00:03:45,460 important than kind of that cultural push of ohh, you gotta 86 00:03:45,470 --> 00:03:47,460 you gotta work out. But are you not a head teacher 87 00:03:47,470 --> 00:03:48,900 yet You've been teaching for 10 years. 88 00:03:48,910 --> 00:03:51,180 Are you not head of year yet. What you doing? 89 00:03:51,550 --> 00:03:54,100 Ignore it. Just put your happiness 1st and 90 00:03:54,110 --> 00:03:56,420 do the thing you enjoy. I did that years ago. 91 00:03:56,430 --> 00:04:00,000 I've absolutely thought I have to be, especially as a male 92 00:04:00,010 --> 00:04:01,440 teacher. There's that male culture as 93 00:04:01,450 --> 00:04:02,790 well. I was like, well, I've got to, 94 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:04,380 I've got to be ahead of you in three years. 95 00:04:04,470 --> 00:04:06,600 Then I've got to go and do this phase leader role and I've got 96 00:04:06,610 --> 00:04:07,150 to be. I've had. 97 00:04:07,290 --> 00:04:10,410 Gotta be a head teacher, right? And after a few years I realised 98 00:04:10,420 --> 00:04:12,710 I just didn't want to do that and it made me feel really down. 99 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:16,329 But actually I got over that hurdle and I'm happier than ever 100 00:04:16,380 --> 00:04:19,339 in in my teaching role and I'm totally content at the teaching 101 00:04:19,350 --> 00:04:22,210 level that I'm at and I don't want to take on anymore. 102 00:04:22,260 --> 00:04:25,000 I'm happy where I am. I think what you said is gonna 103 00:04:25,010 --> 00:04:27,710 resonate with a lot of people, a lot of people because I've 104 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:30,390 spoken to them and and there are really are two types of people 105 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:33,710 out there, one who haven't yet taken that plunge and really 106 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:36,970 feel the pressure to do so and and feel that they need to do 107 00:04:36,980 --> 00:04:38,510 so. But I may be a bit worried about 108 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:40,540 the workload and I'm being really honest. 109 00:04:40,550 --> 00:04:43,350 For that group of people, a big thing is the pay as well. 110 00:04:43,460 --> 00:04:48,150 The amount of money you might get to step up is not nearly in 111 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:50,970 most cases remotely representative of the work 112 00:04:50,980 --> 00:04:53,730 you've put in. So it might be, for example, 113 00:04:53,740 --> 00:04:56,080 anyone in the teaching world, it's called a TLR, teaching and 114 00:04:56,090 --> 00:04:58,500 learning responsibility. If you're designated as the 115 00:04:58,510 --> 00:05:01,670 leader of a year group, you might get 2 to 3000 lbs to do 116 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:04,430 that job. Now at the end of the month, you 117 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:06,130 know, we're not talking about much. 118 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:08,670 If you ask the tax, we're talking about less than £200 a 119 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:11,130 month or 100 LB, maybe 100 and something pounds. 120 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:14,290 Yeah, you can tutor for a bit at the weekend, much less stress 121 00:05:14,300 --> 00:05:15,880 and you can make that same amount of money. 122 00:05:15,890 --> 00:05:18,300 So it's just something to consider for that group and the 123 00:05:18,310 --> 00:05:21,690 second group had them. And maybe we can talk about this 124 00:05:21,700 --> 00:05:23,990 a bit because I know we've had experience with this is people 125 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:27,460 who have taking that plunge and are now miserable and and it 126 00:05:27,470 --> 00:05:30,760 doesn't, it doesn't always work out the way it does because you 127 00:05:30,770 --> 00:05:33,870 know, that kind of job satisfaction, it goes out the 128 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:35,460 window because you're doing less of it. 129 00:05:35,470 --> 00:05:37,440 You're not in front of the kids as much, right? 130 00:05:37,550 --> 00:05:39,600 Yeah, yeah, exactly. You just gotta find I've spoke 131 00:05:39,610 --> 00:05:42,040 to some, I spoke to some really inspirational people over the 132 00:05:42,050 --> 00:05:44,280 years who have overcome this hurdle. 133 00:05:44,340 --> 00:05:46,940 And I said, oh, you know, are you, did you want to try and go 134 00:05:46,950 --> 00:05:49,500 for assistant head or deputy or you want to have a headship or 135 00:05:49,510 --> 00:05:51,240 whatever? And they're just like, Nope. 136 00:05:51,950 --> 00:05:54,310 Like super content. I'm like, no, I really like 137 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:57,400 exactly this job role I'm in. I've tried that before, hated 138 00:05:57,410 --> 00:05:58,380 it. You know, I got paid a bit 139 00:05:58,390 --> 00:05:59,120 extra. Great. 140 00:05:59,130 --> 00:06:01,240 But really, my life was just worse. 141 00:06:01,250 --> 00:06:03,230 So no, I'm happy. And I think that's where we need 142 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:05,120 to strive to be. So if you feel like you're 143 00:06:05,170 --> 00:06:08,010 overworked and you know your pride is taken over a bit too 144 00:06:08,020 --> 00:06:10,790 much, just just try to drop it, try to let it go. 145 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:13,980 You might find yourself becoming a bit more happy in your work. 146 00:06:14,050 --> 00:06:18,500 Dylan #2 yeah, #2, I suppose it's kind of leading on to that. 147 00:06:18,510 --> 00:06:20,320 We're still talking about roles in school. 148 00:06:20,330 --> 00:06:23,240 That's very much the hierarchical role of taking on 149 00:06:23,250 --> 00:06:25,980 more responsibility and having more pressure. 150 00:06:26,130 --> 00:06:28,900 I think something simple, even if you're past that now and you 151 00:06:28,910 --> 00:06:31,440 don't want to step up, but you still find yourself in a bit of 152 00:06:31,450 --> 00:06:35,680 a rut, something as simple as changing a key stage, changing a 153 00:06:35,690 --> 00:06:38,600 year group that you're teaching can really make a difference 154 00:06:38,610 --> 00:06:40,300 now. I know teachers before who've 155 00:06:40,310 --> 00:06:44,740 spent the 1st 3456 years of their career stuck in the same 156 00:06:44,750 --> 00:06:47,840 year group, and I can imagine that becomes really monotonous. 157 00:06:47,950 --> 00:06:50,820 Especially when you think about it, by the end of the third 158 00:06:50,830 --> 00:06:53,800 year, 4th year, you are teaching the same kind of curriculum and 159 00:06:53,810 --> 00:06:56,790 syllabus over and over and over and over again. 160 00:06:56,870 --> 00:06:58,390 You might even be in the same sets. 161 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:00,550 If you set for maths, for example, you might be doing the 162 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:02,820 same books. It can become monotonous, it can 163 00:07:02,830 --> 00:07:06,150 become boring and that can kind of eat away at you a little bit 164 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:09,510 and that can be the cause of some of the kind of desperation 165 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:11,720 to get out. So something as simple as just 166 00:07:11,730 --> 00:07:13,630 switching up. Go with younger children. 167 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:16,530 I can't express to you guys hate and I've worked in junior 168 00:07:16,540 --> 00:07:18,090 schools. I know Hayden had a bit of a 169 00:07:18,180 --> 00:07:20,530 experience in her through school, but we, we spent the 170 00:07:20,540 --> 00:07:23,430 vast majority of our career in a Junior School, which you might 171 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:26,190 think, ohh wow, yeah, 3:00 to 6:00, that's very condensed. 172 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:28,680 There's no early years there, there's no reception year one, 173 00:07:28,690 --> 00:07:31,700 et cetera. But the difference between 174 00:07:31,710 --> 00:07:35,460 teaching a year 3 cohort and teaching a year six cohort is 175 00:07:35,470 --> 00:07:38,480 monumental. And I would argue, yeah, I would 176 00:07:38,490 --> 00:07:41,620 argue that it's a completely different job and that every 177 00:07:41,630 --> 00:07:44,600 single year group having taught in three of the four and Hayden, 178 00:07:44,610 --> 00:07:48,040 you spent a lot of time in six. I think it's very safe to say 179 00:07:48,110 --> 00:07:51,200 that it is completely different. You know that the children have 180 00:07:51,210 --> 00:07:53,250 different personality traits at different times. 181 00:07:53,260 --> 00:07:55,960 They're different at different stages of their life. 182 00:07:56,180 --> 00:07:59,740 And Hayden, you've gone, I think, obviously, I know you've 183 00:07:59,750 --> 00:08:01,470 worked in year four, you've worked in year six. 184 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:03,090 Can you attest to this kind of difference? 185 00:08:03,100 --> 00:08:05,210 Why might this help someone making that move? 186 00:08:05,340 --> 00:08:07,840 Well, it's just different. Like a lot of people go into 187 00:08:07,850 --> 00:08:11,180 teaching, I think, because every day is a bit different, right? 188 00:08:11,220 --> 00:08:15,470 It is that kind of job where very opposite to my previous job 189 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:18,070 was in Tesco and I just didn't really enjoy it because it was 190 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:21,050 too samey for me every day. A lot of people love that, like 191 00:08:21,060 --> 00:08:22,820 just you know exactly what you're getting into each day. 192 00:08:22,830 --> 00:08:25,550 But I quite like the challenge of every day is a bit different 193 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:28,830 and if you're in the same year. But for too long, it you do, 194 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:31,390 that complacency just sort of seeps in a little bit. 195 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:33,650 You don't realise then you become really comfortable and 196 00:08:33,659 --> 00:08:35,620 then you convince yourself that ohh, well, I wouldn't want to 197 00:08:35,630 --> 00:08:37,590 change your groups because I know everything like the back of 198 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:39,179 my hand now. But actually that might be 199 00:08:39,190 --> 00:08:40,740 eating away at your enjoyment of the job. 200 00:08:40,750 --> 00:08:43,140 And sometimes you just need to kind of like just push yourself 201 00:08:43,150 --> 00:08:45,490 out of your comfort zone. But definitely year four and 202 00:08:45,500 --> 00:08:48,040 year 6, even just two years apart, super different. 203 00:08:48,090 --> 00:08:50,990 So perhaps you could consider going to a different key stage, 204 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:53,870 even maybe even into secondary. I think Dylan you mentioned 205 00:08:54,100 --> 00:08:56,380 earlier you didn't hear about a secondary role. 206 00:08:56,890 --> 00:08:59,550 I've I've spoken to people before and again it's it's kind 207 00:08:59,560 --> 00:09:01,170 of conversation. You can have your SLT because 208 00:09:01,180 --> 00:09:02,990 people have feeder schools quite often. 209 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:05,280 If you work in a primary school you know where the majority of 210 00:09:05,290 --> 00:09:07,130 your children are going to go when it comes to secondary 211 00:09:07,140 --> 00:09:10,630 school and and coming up with like having a role between those 212 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:13,320 links and maybe taking on something while you're working 213 00:09:13,330 --> 00:09:15,310 with children who are a bit older and building that bridge 214 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:17,250 between primary and secondary school. 215 00:09:17,260 --> 00:09:20,170 Again it's it's kind of it's a new role although you're still 216 00:09:20,180 --> 00:09:22,290 in the school you're working and you're still working with the 217 00:09:22,300 --> 00:09:24,710 same kind of children because they lead themselves up. 218 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:29,220 You yourself having a different job role it can just spice it up 219 00:09:29,230 --> 00:09:30,960 a bit. I know Hayden, we're the same 220 00:09:30,970 --> 00:09:33,400 kind of person here doing the same thing for two to three 221 00:09:33,410 --> 00:09:34,630 years. Just get bored. 222 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:37,050 There's gonna be a point where the the straw that breaks the 223 00:09:37,060 --> 00:09:40,310 camels back and you just think look I just need a change, OK? 224 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:42,740 And it can be as simple as asking ahead. 225 00:09:42,850 --> 00:09:45,110 Listen, can I try out Year 5 next year? 226 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,380 I'd love to try year six. I've been stuck doing this for 227 00:09:47,390 --> 00:09:49,570 this long Let's go and try year one. 228 00:09:49,580 --> 00:09:51,240 You know it might be complete. I might hate it. 229 00:09:51,250 --> 00:09:52,980 I might not like it. But you know what? 230 00:09:52,990 --> 00:09:55,300 In the years time I can do a different year group as well. 231 00:09:55,350 --> 00:09:56,780 Exactly. And if you're sat there right 232 00:09:56,790 --> 00:09:59,010 now thinking with this tip, and maybe with the next one, you're 233 00:09:59,020 --> 00:10:01,480 about to have as well. I can't do this because my SLT 234 00:10:01,490 --> 00:10:03,230 will not listen to me. Then you know that they're not 235 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:05,310 supportive. Team, stick around to the end of 236 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:09,820 this little bite size episode because tip #5 is probably gonna 237 00:10:09,830 --> 00:10:11,850 be the one for you. If that's the case for moving 238 00:10:11,860 --> 00:10:14,090 on, then to #3 happy to move on. Deal. 239 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:16,370 Yeah, definitely. I think it is nice that you're 240 00:10:16,380 --> 00:10:18,640 right, this is building up and I think this is 1 after the other 241 00:10:18,650 --> 00:10:20,330 things you can try. So what's the next thing? 242 00:10:20,380 --> 00:10:24,330 So this one again, there is a similar theme here, but it does 243 00:10:24,380 --> 00:10:28,150 start with talking to SLT, because you know what, A lot of 244 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:31,660 people just don't do that step. They get themselves caught in a 245 00:10:31,670 --> 00:10:34,380 rut. They assume that, no, nothing 246 00:10:34,390 --> 00:10:35,560 will fix. There's nothing I can do. 247 00:10:35,570 --> 00:10:37,610 I don't wanna be a bird and I'm not gonna talk to my St because 248 00:10:37,620 --> 00:10:39,440 they just, they won't help. They're just gonna be like, no, 249 00:10:39,450 --> 00:10:40,980 you go, well, you go where you are. 250 00:10:41,050 --> 00:10:42,450 You do this because we give you the role. 251 00:10:42,460 --> 00:10:44,980 But you know what? A lot of people in SLT roles, 252 00:10:44,990 --> 00:10:48,060 the majority, vast majority are there because they're good 253 00:10:48,070 --> 00:10:50,840 managers and they've experienced that themselves. 254 00:10:50,910 --> 00:10:52,870 They will understand. Just talk to them. 255 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:55,940 Have a real conversation with your line manager, whoever that 256 00:10:55,950 --> 00:10:58,720 is, and if you need to go to the governors you know there are 257 00:10:58,730 --> 00:11:00,980 there are different levels of people that you can go to. 258 00:11:01,050 --> 00:11:05,180 And just tell them how you feel. Because you know what, my 259 00:11:05,190 --> 00:11:09,110 experience with people, even if their first reaction is not 260 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:11,430 quite what you wanted, you've planted a seed. 261 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:13,890 I always say that we've done it many times in our career. 262 00:11:13,900 --> 00:11:17,050 We've planted that seed. And then later on, you know that 263 00:11:17,060 --> 00:11:21,030 person, that SRT member might go home distress for the day, lay 264 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:22,310 there at night and think, you know what? 265 00:11:22,940 --> 00:11:24,710 I don't really want that staff member to be upset. 266 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:27,350 Maybe, maybe I could actually. Maybe there is a way that we can 267 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:29,940 make that change next year. You know, you just gotta have 268 00:11:29,950 --> 00:11:33,610 that, be brave, have that conversation and also be be the 269 00:11:33,620 --> 00:11:35,680 positive force you know that your school needs. 270 00:11:35,690 --> 00:11:39,080 Every school needs this big positive, like pusher. 271 00:11:39,090 --> 00:11:41,130 You know, there's someone that's not afraid to just say, yeah, 272 00:11:41,140 --> 00:11:42,570 this is what I want. I'm a worker. 273 00:11:42,580 --> 00:11:45,330 I'm giving you 50 hours of my time a week. 274 00:11:45,420 --> 00:11:48,130 You can listen to me, You can listen to my concerns and 275 00:11:48,140 --> 00:11:50,570 hopefully do something about it. How do you feel about that? 276 00:11:51,230 --> 00:11:54,690 Yeah, it's really powerful and and again people might be sat 277 00:11:54,700 --> 00:11:56,010 there going what are you on about? 278 00:11:56,020 --> 00:11:58,970 I can't do that in my school because XYZ trust me, we're 279 00:11:58,980 --> 00:12:01,380 gonna get there. But for the vast majority of 280 00:12:01,390 --> 00:12:03,430 people we've been incredibly lucky. 281 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:06,840 Hayden, you know we have a leadership team right now that 282 00:12:06,850 --> 00:12:10,200 I'm not afraid to say are fantastic at listening. 283 00:12:10,390 --> 00:12:13,680 I I really, truly think that that has helped my well-being a 284 00:12:13,690 --> 00:12:17,240 lot because I feel like if if something is really eating away 285 00:12:17,250 --> 00:12:20,600 at me or we're in a staff meeting and something suggested, 286 00:12:20,690 --> 00:12:24,470 it's very collaborative and I feel comfortable to say ohh, 287 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:27,850 well in what about this then? If this thing you've introduced 288 00:12:27,860 --> 00:12:31,440 right now, that does mean that we have to spend XYZ hours doing 289 00:12:31,450 --> 00:12:33,160 that. I mean what what can we do? 290 00:12:33,170 --> 00:12:35,630 What can we get in return? Yeah, what's going to be the 291 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:40,210 thing where my well-being is placed at #1 rather than the 292 00:12:40,220 --> 00:12:42,830 need for something to be introduced at that very second. 293 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:47,090 And that discussion with SLT is really, really, really powerful. 294 00:12:47,100 --> 00:12:50,770 And I know a lot of people, again, Hayden, myself included. 295 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:52,370 Right. Because I know we can act all 296 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:54,940 mostly in the podcast sometimes. There's definitely been 297 00:12:54,950 --> 00:12:57,420 situations before where I've not liked something. 298 00:12:57,430 --> 00:12:59,960 It's been eating away at me and I've thought it would be easier 299 00:12:59,970 --> 00:13:03,120 just to get over it and and I've not been able to get over it. 300 00:13:03,130 --> 00:13:05,500 And it's really, you know, frustrated me and affected my 301 00:13:05,510 --> 00:13:09,100 work life balance. It's not easy to step out of 302 00:13:09,110 --> 00:13:13,160 line almost and say even with the best of intentions from SLT 303 00:13:13,270 --> 00:13:16,500 to say ohh, that is actually very detrimental to me. 304 00:13:16,510 --> 00:13:20,130 And that's that's not a good decision from my point of view. 305 00:13:20,190 --> 00:13:22,460 I want to air that so we can have a discussion. 306 00:13:22,470 --> 00:13:24,900 It doesn't have to be angry, it doesn't have to be 307 00:13:24,910 --> 00:13:28,670 confrontational from your end. If they make it confrontational, 308 00:13:29,010 --> 00:13:30,600 then you can listen to our further steps. 309 00:13:30,610 --> 00:13:34,560 But like you said, Hayden, yeah, most of the time opening that 310 00:13:34,570 --> 00:13:36,600 dialogue, the trickiest bit is just doing it. 311 00:13:36,610 --> 00:13:38,680 Once the dialogue open, I've never really had a problem. 312 00:13:38,730 --> 00:13:41,160 I will wrap up this point by saying there is a right and a 313 00:13:41,170 --> 00:13:43,360 wrong way to do it as well. And I've learned the hard way of 314 00:13:43,370 --> 00:13:46,000 an idea and laughed me over the years because I've quite often 315 00:13:46,010 --> 00:13:47,040 done it the wrong way. And it's fine. 316 00:13:47,050 --> 00:13:50,060 It's part of life, you know, you learn and and by the wrong way. 317 00:13:50,070 --> 00:13:52,550 What I mean is, is just letting that thing go on a bit too long, 318 00:13:52,560 --> 00:13:54,480 letting it eat away at you because it annoys you, not 319 00:13:54,490 --> 00:13:56,350 saying anything. And then when you eventually do 320 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:59,110 say something, it's it's a stroppy e-mail at 7:00 PM. 321 00:13:59,220 --> 00:14:00,730 You know, a passive aggressive e-mail. 322 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:02,890 It gets you nowhere. It never, it's never got me 323 00:14:02,900 --> 00:14:05,320 anywhere, ever, other than that person just being a little bit 324 00:14:05,330 --> 00:14:08,270 resentful of the fact that they wanna do anything for me because 325 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:11,890 I've just been really rude. So just get out there, think 326 00:14:11,900 --> 00:14:13,870 about the way you want to say something. 327 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:16,650 Do what I do now if you need to. If you're quite a, you get riled 328 00:14:16,660 --> 00:14:19,430 up quite easily. I'll always send Dylan what I 329 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:22,780 propose to tell this person, and then I'll leave it 24 hours and 330 00:14:22,790 --> 00:14:24,240 I'll let him give me some feedback. 331 00:14:24,300 --> 00:14:26,080 But it works wonders. It works. 332 00:14:26,090 --> 00:14:27,520 And then you have someone to bounce off. 333 00:14:27,530 --> 00:14:29,280 Do you really? You can just leave it for 24 334 00:14:29,290 --> 00:14:31,410 hours. But having a good friend, you 335 00:14:31,420 --> 00:14:33,710 know most of you will have someone at school you can bounce 336 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:37,200 off and you destress with? Use that person to just be to 337 00:14:37,210 --> 00:14:39,240 just just read what you're saying, yeah. 338 00:14:39,250 --> 00:14:41,430 Because that you're thinking very quickly on that point. 339 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:44,860 You sent me stuff before where 80% of it was bang on the head 340 00:14:44,910 --> 00:14:47,280 but you start off with something which would just set off on the 341 00:14:47,290 --> 00:14:50,060 wrong foot and that just needs to be taken out because there's 342 00:14:50,070 --> 00:14:52,560 a difference I think between a professional dialogue trying to 343 00:14:52,570 --> 00:14:56,170 improve well-being and a personal kind of anger and and 344 00:14:56,180 --> 00:14:58,410 and there's no, there's no need for that personal kind of anger. 345 00:14:58,420 --> 00:15:00,630 Like, sure, OK you disagree with that idea. 346 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:03,070 It's still a good idea and and you don't have to have 347 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:05,930 everything in a school which matches your personal think why 348 00:15:05,940 --> 00:15:08,830 you think should do things. But you can talk professionally 349 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:11,530 about the outcomes and I think that's a really good way to 350 00:15:11,540 --> 00:15:14,250 differentiate so. To summarise, tip #3, then talk, 351 00:15:14,260 --> 00:15:16,830 talk, talk, talk to your SLT, talk to your line managers, but 352 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:20,410 just do it in the right way. I think it's over to you now. 353 00:15:20,420 --> 00:15:25,210 Is that right #4 #4? This is something that we are 354 00:15:25,220 --> 00:15:28,260 both really worried about telling you guys because well, 355 00:15:28,470 --> 00:15:30,940 let me let me tell you why. Because we understand the 356 00:15:30,950 --> 00:15:33,300 current climate. You know it's been 2-3 years 357 00:15:33,310 --> 00:15:35,340 now. It feels like since COVID or 358 00:15:35,350 --> 00:15:38,960 furlough, people being laid off, cost of living crisis and energy 359 00:15:38,970 --> 00:15:41,730 prices going up, people's wallets are just being tightened 360 00:15:41,740 --> 00:15:44,690 and tightened and tightened. So the the kind of what I want 361 00:15:44,700 --> 00:15:47,880 to do before we say this last year is just please listen very 362 00:15:47,890 --> 00:15:50,450 carefully to what we're actually saying because we're not going 363 00:15:50,460 --> 00:15:53,180 to pretend like everyone can afford to take a pay cut. 364 00:15:53,690 --> 00:15:57,750 However, Hayden and I both did this thing, OK And you know, we 365 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:00,430 had tutoring, tutoring business that helped us to make these 366 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:02,620 decisions, sure. But I do truly think that we 367 00:16:02,630 --> 00:16:04,270 would have considered this regardless. 368 00:16:04,620 --> 00:16:08,390 And that is to assess your money, assess your take home 369 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:10,590 pay. Assess exactly. 370 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:15,670 Sit down and think what has to go out of my monthly outgoings? 371 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:17,790 What bills do I have that are non-negotiable? 372 00:16:17,860 --> 00:16:20,110 What mortgage do I have or what rent do I have that's 373 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:22,390 non-negotiable. Everything that has to come out 374 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:25,850 of my bank account, think about everything that kind of needs 375 00:16:25,860 --> 00:16:26,970 to. It's kind of that grey area. 376 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:29,570 It's like, OK, I want to be able to go out for dinner once a 377 00:16:29,580 --> 00:16:31,170 month. I wanna be able to go and see my 378 00:16:31,180 --> 00:16:33,440 friends and socialise for a bit. I'm gonna put aside that money. 379 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:36,590 I've got children perhaps that I need to make sure they get this 380 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:38,230 done or they have clubs, etcetera. 381 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:40,570 Just get your own personal bottom line. 382 00:16:40,580 --> 00:16:42,910 And there's no one's gonna tell you what that is other than you. 383 00:16:42,980 --> 00:16:46,250 You decide what is necessary for you and what level you want to 384 00:16:46,260 --> 00:16:51,850 stop at and just look into calculators, work things out 385 00:16:51,900 --> 00:16:56,110 where you can really drop some of your responsibilities. 386 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:59,560 And we're talking here about days in school going part time. 387 00:16:59,730 --> 00:17:01,440 Exactly. Going part time. 388 00:17:01,550 --> 00:17:04,900 And lose some money. But not as much as you think. 389 00:17:04,910 --> 00:17:07,020 Perhaps, Hayden, you could give us some more detail here. 390 00:17:07,089 --> 00:17:08,800 Why is this going to help? Dropping days. 391 00:17:08,810 --> 00:17:10,520 I'm gonna lose money. Why is that a good thing? 392 00:17:10,630 --> 00:17:12,300 Well, OK, a couple of things, right? 393 00:17:12,349 --> 00:17:15,339 Firstly, when people quit teaching, they quite often 394 00:17:15,349 --> 00:17:18,720 statistically go into jobs that are slower pay anyway, right? 395 00:17:18,730 --> 00:17:21,119 Because it can be quite hard to just walk into a job, let's say 396 00:17:21,130 --> 00:17:22,700 at the top of the teacher pay scale. 397 00:17:22,810 --> 00:17:25,339 It's quite hard to just walk into another job that's of that 398 00:17:25,349 --> 00:17:27,380 pay. So before you consider doing 399 00:17:27,390 --> 00:17:29,370 that, what you're going to maybe be dropping? 400 00:17:29,450 --> 00:17:32,890 Bit of pay anyway. Just consider doing the same 401 00:17:32,900 --> 00:17:35,310 thing but within the job you're in that you already know really 402 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:39,060 well and potentially love. I know that Lauren's mum dropped 403 00:17:39,070 --> 00:17:42,870 down to I think she's on nought .8, so you know it's not a huge 404 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:46,330 drop, but it was totally manageable for her in terms of 405 00:17:46,340 --> 00:17:48,620 finances, given the position she's in in her life at the 406 00:17:48,630 --> 00:17:50,940 moment and sort of a family income and all that. 407 00:17:51,180 --> 00:17:53,940 She could afford to drop to nought .8 and it really, really, 408 00:17:53,950 --> 00:17:55,830 really helped her health and well-being because she had a 409 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:59,510 huge medical issue a couple of years ago and just she just 410 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:01,780 couldn't do. Full time teaching anymore. 411 00:18:01,790 --> 00:18:04,500 It was just too much. It was kind of either quit or 412 00:18:04,510 --> 00:18:07,480 find a new norm. And the new norm, fortunately, 413 00:18:07,490 --> 00:18:11,430 was just dropping a day of the week and just. 414 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:14,990 Finding you know having a four day week it was manageable for 415 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:16,370 her and the money was manageable. 416 00:18:16,380 --> 00:18:18,780 So yeah we're not trying to you know, we don't we don't you 417 00:18:18,790 --> 00:18:21,570 think we're sitting here sat sat here being like ohh you know 418 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:23,830 money is whatever just drop a few days you'll be fine. 419 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:26,170 Like obviously people are in different positions where they 420 00:18:26,180 --> 00:18:28,610 every penny counts, and this might not be the tip for you, 421 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:31,330 but really, do think about it, because I think you'll be 422 00:18:31,340 --> 00:18:35,070 surprised that. How much, how little you lose 423 00:18:35,120 --> 00:18:40,380 compared to the percentage drop? For example, we dropped 35%, but 424 00:18:40,390 --> 00:18:44,830 we dropped 25% in our pay. So it's just to clarify that 35, 425 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:46,410 we dropped two days in school basically. 426 00:18:46,420 --> 00:18:48,200 Yeah. So, yeah, you would think 35 to 427 00:18:48,210 --> 00:18:52,880 40% of our time, but it was nowhere near that in terms of 428 00:18:52,890 --> 00:18:53,820 pay, was it because? Yeah. 429 00:18:53,830 --> 00:18:57,260 No, we didn't lose 35 to 40% of our take home pay just because 430 00:18:57,270 --> 00:18:58,860 of the way tax works. We won't go into it now. 431 00:18:58,870 --> 00:19:02,540 But yeah, it really is worth looking into if you possibly 432 00:19:02,550 --> 00:19:04,880 can, if you're really at breaking point and it's a case 433 00:19:04,890 --> 00:19:08,800 of going to do a new job anyway where you might be paid less and 434 00:19:08,810 --> 00:19:10,720 still maintaining those school holidays. 435 00:19:10,730 --> 00:19:13,090 Let's not pretend it's an amazing perk of the job because 436 00:19:13,100 --> 00:19:14,430 it's something that's kept us in the job. 437 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:17,700 Hayden having gone part time was really powerful because two 438 00:19:17,710 --> 00:19:19,440 reasons. One, school holidays still 439 00:19:19,450 --> 00:19:20,880 maintain them. You still get six weeks off. 440 00:19:20,890 --> 00:19:22,590 Doesn't matter. You part time, get six weeks off 441 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:25,230 in the summer and you're still part of the teacher pension and 442 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:27,080 you can still keep the contributions as high as you 443 00:19:27,090 --> 00:19:28,890 want. It's a perk of the job. 444 00:19:28,900 --> 00:19:31,530 And yeah, if you're at that point and you're thinking about 445 00:19:31,540 --> 00:19:34,410 quitting, this is a really, really good option for a lot. 446 00:19:34,420 --> 00:19:36,530 Of people, right? So we're nearly 20 minutes in. 447 00:19:36,540 --> 00:19:38,160 We're gonna finish this episode very soon. 448 00:19:38,650 --> 00:19:40,550 If you've got this far, you might be thinking, cool, I've 449 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:42,070 got a tip or two I can have a go at. 450 00:19:42,140 --> 00:19:44,400 You might also be thinking, I can't do any of these because 451 00:19:44,410 --> 00:19:45,690 the pay thing doesn't work for me. 452 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:48,470 I can't talk to my SLT because they're just toxic. 453 00:19:48,540 --> 00:19:50,290 And you know, they won't let me change my role. 454 00:19:50,300 --> 00:19:52,410 They're constantly piling on responsibilities anyway. 455 00:19:52,420 --> 00:19:54,840 It doesn't happen. I can't drop anything, right? 456 00:19:54,850 --> 00:19:56,500 I suppose you just have to leave Hayden, right? 457 00:19:56,600 --> 00:20:00,370 Yeah. Leave the school, Not the 458 00:20:00,410 --> 00:20:02,400 school, not the profession. Right. 459 00:20:02,470 --> 00:20:05,380 So you know, the last resort is, and I really, really recommend 460 00:20:05,390 --> 00:20:08,080 this is probably the biggest one really to do that most people do 461 00:20:08,090 --> 00:20:09,860 when they when it's just not working. 462 00:20:10,110 --> 00:20:13,740 Please try to move school before you completely quit this job 463 00:20:13,750 --> 00:20:16,160 because it can be such a game changer. 464 00:20:16,170 --> 00:20:18,300 If you don't believe me, you know, just go online for one 465 00:20:18,310 --> 00:20:20,110 day. You'll see someone on a teacher 466 00:20:20,120 --> 00:20:22,760 Facebook group talking about how they move school and their life 467 00:20:22,770 --> 00:20:25,820 is so much better now. And if you don't believe us just 468 00:20:25,830 --> 00:20:27,880 listen to us because we did this tip. 469 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:30,400 We did it as well exactly. You know and and and for me it 470 00:20:30,410 --> 00:20:32,290 was It's interesting actually, just being personal for a 471 00:20:32,300 --> 00:20:34,770 second. Two different reasons really. 472 00:20:34,780 --> 00:20:36,980 The first time I left is because I just thought the school was 473 00:20:36,990 --> 00:20:39,030 toxic. My my well-being wasn't there. 474 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:40,690 I didn't. I didn't enjoy working there 475 00:20:40,700 --> 00:20:42,100 personally. Other people might have done but 476 00:20:42,110 --> 00:20:43,410 it wasn't for me. It didn't. 477 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:47,970 I didn't gel with the way it was managed and my workload was 478 00:20:47,980 --> 00:20:51,730 horrible but the set this second time I left was more of it. 479 00:20:51,740 --> 00:20:54,010 It wasn't so much that same relationship. 480 00:20:54,020 --> 00:20:58,070 It was more of a recognition of I don't fit here and and I had 481 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:00,750 to be really. It's really hard because I felt 482 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:02,710 like I was the failure. The school was great and I was 483 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:05,370 the failure, but it really it was just it's just a it's a 484 00:21:05,380 --> 00:21:07,330 puzzle and I just wasn't the right piece for that role. 485 00:21:07,340 --> 00:21:08,960 And they needed someone different, with a different 486 00:21:08,970 --> 00:21:10,880 skill set, a different way of working. 487 00:21:10,890 --> 00:21:12,400 And you know, I just wasn't there. 488 00:21:12,410 --> 00:21:15,030 I wasn't that person, which is why I left. 489 00:21:15,100 --> 00:21:19,690 And I was really unhappy there, purely because of that self, you 490 00:21:19,700 --> 00:21:21,270 know? I was convinced myself on what 491 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:22,790 I'm doing, I can't do this job properly. 492 00:21:22,860 --> 00:21:25,460 You really do a round peg in the square box whether it's called, 493 00:21:25,470 --> 00:21:27,770 you know, I mean you weren't just weren't fitting, probably 494 00:21:27,780 --> 00:21:29,130 butchered that saying, but you were. 495 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:32,380 Just you were doing all the right things and being an 496 00:21:32,390 --> 00:21:35,720 amazing teacher but the the environment it just didn't gel 497 00:21:35,730 --> 00:21:38,180 and that just didn't gel and I have no disrespect to the people 498 00:21:38,190 --> 00:21:41,240 you know I I really respect that people still I just didn't fit 499 00:21:41,250 --> 00:21:44,620 in in that role. So yeah don't don't be afraid to 500 00:21:45,030 --> 00:21:47,700 to quit your job and go and get another job in a different 501 00:21:47,710 --> 00:21:49,120 school. The beautiful thing of teaching 502 00:21:49,130 --> 00:21:52,040 is the biggest perk in the world is is is always going to be 503 00:21:52,050 --> 00:21:54,620 around. The population is increasing. 504 00:21:54,630 --> 00:21:57,340 There are tonnes of schools anywhere in the country. 505 00:21:57,410 --> 00:22:00,870 You know that that you've got the best opportunity to to work 506 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,070 kind of where you want and change jobs. 507 00:22:03,130 --> 00:22:05,140 It can be hard, don't get me wrong, cause you might again, 508 00:22:05,150 --> 00:22:07,300 you might not be the puzzle piece that fits the school that 509 00:22:07,310 --> 00:22:09,960 you're applying for doesn't mean you're bad, it just means you're 510 00:22:09,970 --> 00:22:12,170 not the piece. So it can take some time. 511 00:22:12,180 --> 00:22:15,360 But do you really consider moving school before you quit? 512 00:22:16,210 --> 00:22:18,950 Absolutely hate it. I think hopefully people can get 513 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,430 a lot from that. And that is a really genuine 514 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:23,930 list there that we have taken a lot from ourselves over the 515 00:22:23,940 --> 00:22:25,340 years. So, you know, we walked the walk 516 00:22:25,350 --> 00:22:27,110 as well. Do try it out. 517 00:22:27,120 --> 00:22:29,840 And if you've done any of these things before and it's worked 518 00:22:29,850 --> 00:22:30,880 for you, do get in touch with us. 519 00:22:30,890 --> 00:22:33,360 Do let us know because it's powerful for other teachers to 520 00:22:33,370 --> 00:22:35,380 hear that. Because wherever, whatever 521 00:22:35,430 --> 00:22:38,280 situation we're all in, there will be someone in your school 522 00:22:38,290 --> 00:22:41,080 right now who's going through the exact same thought process. 523 00:22:41,090 --> 00:22:43,600 If it's not you, it'll be one of your friends, it will be someone 524 00:22:43,610 --> 00:22:46,190 you know. This is a really tricky. 525 00:22:46,330 --> 00:22:49,690 Job, the profession is tough. It seems like it's just getting 526 00:22:49,700 --> 00:22:51,690 tougher. But we love teaching children, 527 00:22:51,700 --> 00:22:55,150 we love helping them. So hopefully this list Hayden 528 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:57,530 can help someone just stay in the job a bit longer. 529 00:22:57,610 --> 00:23:00,550 So if you want to hear a bit more about how the job is maybe 530 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:02,540 getting a bit tougher and changing, then do make sure you 531 00:23:02,550 --> 00:23:04,410 check out our episode later this week. 532 00:23:04,420 --> 00:23:06,670 We'll be coming out on Monday, if you're listening today, on 533 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:08,270 Friday. And by later this week you mean 534 00:23:08,330 --> 00:23:12,310 next week, Because this next week later, there's there's 535 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:16,280 three days later. This weekend, yeah. 536 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:18,220 Monday is a weekend anyway, guys. 537 00:23:18,230 --> 00:23:20,960 Hopefully you enjoyed that. I'll let Hayden sign off with 538 00:23:20,970 --> 00:23:23,970 his tired, scruffy look. I'll see you in the next 539 00:23:23,980 --> 00:23:26,100 episode. Hopefully I'll shave my head and 540 00:23:26,110 --> 00:23:27,240 beard. Bye then. 541 00:23:27,310 --> 00:23:28,840 Bye guys.