Hello everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Teach
Steeply Bite Size Hayden. Hello.
Hello, you. You sounded a bit down then you
sounded really like, hey guys, this is like another episode,
man and stuff. And listen, there's been a blur,
Hayden, but a blur. We're back.
You're back. And I'm.
I tried to do all my own. I did do one on my own.
I try. I succeeded.
You saw, You listened. And then I listened to about 10
seconds of it. Most of our listeners probably
just like it's just. Yeah, I got the gist.
Yeah, I realised I wasn't in it and I thought, hang on, there's
no point, no point In a second I was changing poo for the fourth
time in a row. Ohh man, do you know what?
Listen to our main episode that's coming out in a few days
time because we'll we'll give you a nice update on the baby
situation. It's been there's a reason we
look like this. I just gonna say I think you
just anyone who's watching this episode might get a little idea
of where we are mentally. Right now I've been trying to
shave my head and face for like 3 days is the most.
It's such a small task and I and I haven't done it.
I'm sat here recording a podcast.
Apparently that takes important. I've been trying to just do this
simple job. Yeah, let's talk for half an
hour about it instead of doing it for 2 minutes.
Ohh. Anyways, yeah, go on the guest,
get into the episode. So we've got a really quick bite
sized one today and we've got our well top five I guess things
that you can do consider before you quit teaching.
So Dylan, you wanna say anything before we dive into our list?
Yeah, I think this is borne out of something that we've really
both experienced over the years. Because, you know, again, in in
a future episode very close, we've got one lined up that
we're going to talk about how much teaching has changed over
the years and not necessarily always for the best in terms of
well-being, etc. And even outcomes and stuff like
that. But putting that aside, it's
kind of the theme I suppose is a lot of people listening to this
will be feeling very similarly and especially teachers, but I
think even people just in their day-to-day jobs, I don't it's
not, it's not something that is just teachers feel we've become
like disenfranchised and just a bit like, well, what am I, why
am I doing this? What's the point?
And we talked to a lot of teachers.
Obviously a lot of our friends and teachers we've been teaching
for the best part of a decade. So we know a lot of teachers and
you guys listening get in touch with us as well.
And I think you get to that point where you just think, OK,
I'm going to quit. There's enough.
Hadn't had enough. I've been there.
We've been there. You know we would be lying if we
both said that we hadn't previously thought Is it best
for us to quit and. Thinking about some of these
tips that we're gonna say like I've done a few of these I think
like and it has helped me not just quit.
So hopefully, hopefully, it'll be helpful for that's the
summary before we get into the list for anyone listening what's
the episode going to be about? It's OK.
Listen, we're in a point where you're starting to think this
profession is no longer what it was.
And you, you kind of want to leave.
Yeah, but you just have that inkling, that thing that keeps
you like the reason we're still teaching Hayden is because we
love so much of it. So here are some really
practical steps as to what you can do before you actually take
the plunge and quit. That might turn a corner and and
let's keep you in this career because guys, we need fantastic
teachers and we're losing them left, right and centre.
So Hayden, kick us off. What's the first thing we can do
to just, you know, get us back on the straight and narrow and
stay in the profession before we decide to quit?
What's going to help us? OK, this one's quite personal to
me. You don't have to climb that
ladder. You don't have to do it.
If you've got responsibilities, maybe you've even you've taken
them already and you're thinking, I'm overworked.
I'm overwhelmed. I'm actually not really enjoying
this role. I'm not enjoying what I'm doing.
You, you know, drop it if you can.
Obviously it's not as easy as that.
Sometimes it might take a bit of time to phase out of that role.
But don't be afraid to do that. Your happiness is so much more
important than kind of that cultural push of ohh, you gotta
you gotta work out. But are you not a head teacher
yet You've been teaching for 10 years.
Are you not head of year yet. What you doing?
Ignore it. Just put your happiness 1st and
do the thing you enjoy. I did that years ago.
I've absolutely thought I have to be, especially as a male
teacher. There's that male culture as
well. I was like, well, I've got to,
I've got to be ahead of you in three years.
Then I've got to go and do this phase leader role and I've got
to be. I've had.
Gotta be a head teacher, right? And after a few years I realised
I just didn't want to do that and it made me feel really down.
But actually I got over that hurdle and I'm happier than ever
in in my teaching role and I'm totally content at the teaching
level that I'm at and I don't want to take on anymore.
I'm happy where I am. I think what you said is gonna
resonate with a lot of people, a lot of people because I've
spoken to them and and there are really are two types of people
out there, one who haven't yet taken that plunge and really
feel the pressure to do so and and feel that they need to do
so. But I may be a bit worried about
the workload and I'm being really honest.
For that group of people, a big thing is the pay as well.
The amount of money you might get to step up is not nearly in
most cases remotely representative of the work
you've put in. So it might be, for example,
anyone in the teaching world, it's called a TLR, teaching and
learning responsibility. If you're designated as the
leader of a year group, you might get 2 to 3000 lbs to do
that job. Now at the end of the month, you
know, we're not talking about much.
If you ask the tax, we're talking about less than £200 a
month or 100 LB, maybe 100 and something pounds.
Yeah, you can tutor for a bit at the weekend, much less stress
and you can make that same amount of money.
So it's just something to consider for that group and the
second group had them. And maybe we can talk about this
a bit because I know we've had experience with this is people
who have taking that plunge and are now miserable and and it
doesn't, it doesn't always work out the way it does because you
know, that kind of job satisfaction, it goes out the
window because you're doing less of it.
You're not in front of the kids as much, right?
Yeah, yeah, exactly. You just gotta find I've spoke
to some, I spoke to some really inspirational people over the
years who have overcome this hurdle.
And I said, oh, you know, are you, did you want to try and go
for assistant head or deputy or you want to have a headship or
whatever? And they're just like, Nope.
Like super content. I'm like, no, I really like
exactly this job role I'm in. I've tried that before, hated
it. You know, I got paid a bit
extra. Great.
But really, my life was just worse.
So no, I'm happy. And I think that's where we need
to strive to be. So if you feel like you're
overworked and you know your pride is taken over a bit too
much, just just try to drop it, try to let it go.
You might find yourself becoming a bit more happy in your work.
Dylan #2 yeah, #2, I suppose it's kind of leading on to that.
We're still talking about roles in school.
That's very much the hierarchical role of taking on
more responsibility and having more pressure.
I think something simple, even if you're past that now and you
don't want to step up, but you still find yourself in a bit of
a rut, something as simple as changing a key stage, changing a
year group that you're teaching can really make a difference
now. I know teachers before who've
spent the 1st 3456 years of their career stuck in the same
year group, and I can imagine that becomes really monotonous.
Especially when you think about it, by the end of the third
year, 4th year, you are teaching the same kind of curriculum and
syllabus over and over and over and over again.
You might even be in the same sets.
If you set for maths, for example, you might be doing the
same books. It can become monotonous, it can
become boring and that can kind of eat away at you a little bit
and that can be the cause of some of the kind of desperation
to get out. So something as simple as just
switching up. Go with younger children.
I can't express to you guys hate and I've worked in junior
schools. I know Hayden had a bit of a
experience in her through school, but we, we spent the
vast majority of our career in a Junior School, which you might
think, ohh wow, yeah, 3:00 to 6:00, that's very condensed.
There's no early years there, there's no reception year one,
et cetera. But the difference between
teaching a year 3 cohort and teaching a year six cohort is
monumental. And I would argue, yeah, I would
argue that it's a completely different job and that every
single year group having taught in three of the four and Hayden,
you spent a lot of time in six. I think it's very safe to say
that it is completely different. You know that the children have
different personality traits at different times.
They're different at different stages of their life.
And Hayden, you've gone, I think, obviously, I know you've
worked in year four, you've worked in year six.
Can you attest to this kind of difference?
Why might this help someone making that move?
Well, it's just different. Like a lot of people go into
teaching, I think, because every day is a bit different, right?
It is that kind of job where very opposite to my previous job
was in Tesco and I just didn't really enjoy it because it was
too samey for me every day. A lot of people love that, like
just you know exactly what you're getting into each day.
But I quite like the challenge of every day is a bit different
and if you're in the same year. But for too long, it you do,
that complacency just sort of seeps in a little bit.
You don't realise then you become really comfortable and
then you convince yourself that ohh, well, I wouldn't want to
change your groups because I know everything like the back of
my hand now. But actually that might be
eating away at your enjoyment of the job.
And sometimes you just need to kind of like just push yourself
out of your comfort zone. But definitely year four and
year 6, even just two years apart, super different.
So perhaps you could consider going to a different key stage,
even maybe even into secondary. I think Dylan you mentioned
earlier you didn't hear about a secondary role.
I've I've spoken to people before and again it's it's kind
of conversation. You can have your SLT because
people have feeder schools quite often.
If you work in a primary school you know where the majority of
your children are going to go when it comes to secondary
school and and coming up with like having a role between those
links and maybe taking on something while you're working
with children who are a bit older and building that bridge
between primary and secondary school.
Again it's it's kind of it's a new role although you're still
in the school you're working and you're still working with the
same kind of children because they lead themselves up.
You yourself having a different job role it can just spice it up
a bit. I know Hayden, we're the same
kind of person here doing the same thing for two to three
years. Just get bored.
There's gonna be a point where the the straw that breaks the
camels back and you just think look I just need a change, OK?
And it can be as simple as asking ahead.
Listen, can I try out Year 5 next year?
I'd love to try year six. I've been stuck doing this for
this long Let's go and try year one.
You know it might be complete. I might hate it.
I might not like it. But you know what?
In the years time I can do a different year group as well.
Exactly. And if you're sat there right
now thinking with this tip, and maybe with the next one, you're
about to have as well. I can't do this because my SLT
will not listen to me. Then you know that they're not
supportive. Team, stick around to the end of
this little bite size episode because tip #5 is probably gonna
be the one for you. If that's the case for moving
on, then to #3 happy to move on. Deal.
Yeah, definitely. I think it is nice that you're
right, this is building up and I think this is 1 after the other
things you can try. So what's the next thing?
So this one again, there is a similar theme here, but it does
start with talking to SLT, because you know what, A lot of
people just don't do that step. They get themselves caught in a
rut. They assume that, no, nothing
will fix. There's nothing I can do.
I don't wanna be a bird and I'm not gonna talk to my St because
they just, they won't help. They're just gonna be like, no,
you go, well, you go where you are.
You do this because we give you the role.
But you know what? A lot of people in SLT roles,
the majority, vast majority are there because they're good
managers and they've experienced that themselves.
They will understand. Just talk to them.
Have a real conversation with your line manager, whoever that
is, and if you need to go to the governors you know there are
there are different levels of people that you can go to.
And just tell them how you feel. Because you know what, my
experience with people, even if their first reaction is not
quite what you wanted, you've planted a seed.
I always say that we've done it many times in our career.
We've planted that seed. And then later on, you know that
person, that SRT member might go home distress for the day, lay
there at night and think, you know what?
I don't really want that staff member to be upset.
Maybe, maybe I could actually. Maybe there is a way that we can
make that change next year. You know, you just gotta have
that, be brave, have that conversation and also be be the
positive force you know that your school needs.
Every school needs this big positive, like pusher.
You know, there's someone that's not afraid to just say, yeah,
this is what I want. I'm a worker.
I'm giving you 50 hours of my time a week.
You can listen to me, You can listen to my concerns and
hopefully do something about it. How do you feel about that?
Yeah, it's really powerful and and again people might be sat
there going what are you on about?
I can't do that in my school because XYZ trust me, we're
gonna get there. But for the vast majority of
people we've been incredibly lucky.
Hayden, you know we have a leadership team right now that
I'm not afraid to say are fantastic at listening.
I I really, truly think that that has helped my well-being a
lot because I feel like if if something is really eating away
at me or we're in a staff meeting and something suggested,
it's very collaborative and I feel comfortable to say ohh,
well in what about this then? If this thing you've introduced
right now, that does mean that we have to spend XYZ hours doing
that. I mean what what can we do?
What can we get in return? Yeah, what's going to be the
thing where my well-being is placed at #1 rather than the
need for something to be introduced at that very second.
And that discussion with SLT is really, really, really powerful.
And I know a lot of people, again, Hayden, myself included.
Right. Because I know we can act all
mostly in the podcast sometimes. There's definitely been
situations before where I've not liked something.
It's been eating away at me and I've thought it would be easier
just to get over it and and I've not been able to get over it.
And it's really, you know, frustrated me and affected my
work life balance. It's not easy to step out of
line almost and say even with the best of intentions from SLT
to say ohh, that is actually very detrimental to me.
And that's that's not a good decision from my point of view.
I want to air that so we can have a discussion.
It doesn't have to be angry, it doesn't have to be
confrontational from your end. If they make it confrontational,
then you can listen to our further steps.
But like you said, Hayden, yeah, most of the time opening that
dialogue, the trickiest bit is just doing it.
Once the dialogue open, I've never really had a problem.
I will wrap up this point by saying there is a right and a
wrong way to do it as well. And I've learned the hard way of
an idea and laughed me over the years because I've quite often
done it the wrong way. And it's fine.
It's part of life, you know, you learn and and by the wrong way.
What I mean is, is just letting that thing go on a bit too long,
letting it eat away at you because it annoys you, not
saying anything. And then when you eventually do
say something, it's it's a stroppy e-mail at 7:00 PM.
You know, a passive aggressive e-mail.
It gets you nowhere. It never, it's never got me
anywhere, ever, other than that person just being a little bit
resentful of the fact that they wanna do anything for me because
I've just been really rude. So just get out there, think
about the way you want to say something.
Do what I do now if you need to. If you're quite a, you get riled
up quite easily. I'll always send Dylan what I
propose to tell this person, and then I'll leave it 24 hours and
I'll let him give me some feedback.
But it works wonders. It works.
And then you have someone to bounce off.
Do you really? You can just leave it for 24
hours. But having a good friend, you
know most of you will have someone at school you can bounce
off and you destress with? Use that person to just be to
just just read what you're saying, yeah.
Because that you're thinking very quickly on that point.
You sent me stuff before where 80% of it was bang on the head
but you start off with something which would just set off on the
wrong foot and that just needs to be taken out because there's
a difference I think between a professional dialogue trying to
improve well-being and a personal kind of anger and and
and there's no, there's no need for that personal kind of anger.
Like, sure, OK you disagree with that idea.
It's still a good idea and and you don't have to have
everything in a school which matches your personal think why
you think should do things. But you can talk professionally
about the outcomes and I think that's a really good way to
differentiate so. To summarise, tip #3, then talk,
talk, talk, talk to your SLT, talk to your line managers, but
just do it in the right way. I think it's over to you now.
Is that right #4 #4? This is something that we are
both really worried about telling you guys because well,
let me let me tell you why. Because we understand the
current climate. You know it's been 2-3 years
now. It feels like since COVID or
furlough, people being laid off, cost of living crisis and energy
prices going up, people's wallets are just being tightened
and tightened and tightened. So the the kind of what I want
to do before we say this last year is just please listen very
carefully to what we're actually saying because we're not going
to pretend like everyone can afford to take a pay cut.
However, Hayden and I both did this thing, OK And you know, we
had tutoring, tutoring business that helped us to make these
decisions, sure. But I do truly think that we
would have considered this regardless.
And that is to assess your money, assess your take home
pay. Assess exactly.
Sit down and think what has to go out of my monthly outgoings?
What bills do I have that are non-negotiable?
What mortgage do I have or what rent do I have that's
non-negotiable. Everything that has to come out
of my bank account, think about everything that kind of needs
to. It's kind of that grey area.
It's like, OK, I want to be able to go out for dinner once a
month. I wanna be able to go and see my
friends and socialise for a bit. I'm gonna put aside that money.
I've got children perhaps that I need to make sure they get this
done or they have clubs, etcetera.
Just get your own personal bottom line.
And there's no one's gonna tell you what that is other than you.
You decide what is necessary for you and what level you want to
stop at and just look into calculators, work things out
where you can really drop some of your responsibilities.
And we're talking here about days in school going part time.
Exactly. Going part time.
And lose some money. But not as much as you think.
Perhaps, Hayden, you could give us some more detail here.
Why is this going to help? Dropping days.
I'm gonna lose money. Why is that a good thing?
Well, OK, a couple of things, right?
Firstly, when people quit teaching, they quite often
statistically go into jobs that are slower pay anyway, right?
Because it can be quite hard to just walk into a job, let's say
at the top of the teacher pay scale.
It's quite hard to just walk into another job that's of that
pay. So before you consider doing
that, what you're going to maybe be dropping?
Bit of pay anyway. Just consider doing the same
thing but within the job you're in that you already know really
well and potentially love. I know that Lauren's mum dropped
down to I think she's on nought .8, so you know it's not a huge
drop, but it was totally manageable for her in terms of
finances, given the position she's in in her life at the
moment and sort of a family income and all that.
She could afford to drop to nought .8 and it really, really,
really helped her health and well-being because she had a
huge medical issue a couple of years ago and just she just
couldn't do. Full time teaching anymore.
It was just too much. It was kind of either quit or
find a new norm. And the new norm, fortunately,
was just dropping a day of the week and just.
Finding you know having a four day week it was manageable for
her and the money was manageable.
So yeah we're not trying to you know, we don't we don't you
think we're sitting here sat sat here being like ohh you know
money is whatever just drop a few days you'll be fine.
Like obviously people are in different positions where they
every penny counts, and this might not be the tip for you,
but really, do think about it, because I think you'll be
surprised that. How much, how little you lose
compared to the percentage drop? For example, we dropped 35%, but
we dropped 25% in our pay. So it's just to clarify that 35,
we dropped two days in school basically.
Yeah. So, yeah, you would think 35 to
40% of our time, but it was nowhere near that in terms of
pay, was it because? Yeah.
No, we didn't lose 35 to 40% of our take home pay just because
of the way tax works. We won't go into it now.
But yeah, it really is worth looking into if you possibly
can, if you're really at breaking point and it's a case
of going to do a new job anyway where you might be paid less and
still maintaining those school holidays.
Let's not pretend it's an amazing perk of the job because
it's something that's kept us in the job.
Hayden having gone part time was really powerful because two
reasons. One, school holidays still
maintain them. You still get six weeks off.
Doesn't matter. You part time, get six weeks off
in the summer and you're still part of the teacher pension and
you can still keep the contributions as high as you
want. It's a perk of the job.
And yeah, if you're at that point and you're thinking about
quitting, this is a really, really good option for a lot.
Of people, right? So we're nearly 20 minutes in.
We're gonna finish this episode very soon.
If you've got this far, you might be thinking, cool, I've
got a tip or two I can have a go at.
You might also be thinking, I can't do any of these because
the pay thing doesn't work for me.
I can't talk to my SLT because they're just toxic.
And you know, they won't let me change my role.
They're constantly piling on responsibilities anyway.
It doesn't happen. I can't drop anything, right?
I suppose you just have to leave Hayden, right?
Yeah. Leave the school, Not the
school, not the profession. Right.
So you know, the last resort is, and I really, really recommend
this is probably the biggest one really to do that most people do
when they when it's just not working.
Please try to move school before you completely quit this job
because it can be such a game changer.
If you don't believe me, you know, just go online for one
day. You'll see someone on a teacher
Facebook group talking about how they move school and their life
is so much better now. And if you don't believe us just
listen to us because we did this tip.
We did it as well exactly. You know and and and for me it
was It's interesting actually, just being personal for a
second. Two different reasons really.
The first time I left is because I just thought the school was
toxic. My my well-being wasn't there.
I didn't. I didn't enjoy working there
personally. Other people might have done but
it wasn't for me. It didn't.
I didn't gel with the way it was managed and my workload was
horrible but the set this second time I left was more of it.
It wasn't so much that same relationship.
It was more of a recognition of I don't fit here and and I had
to be really. It's really hard because I felt
like I was the failure. The school was great and I was
the failure, but it really it was just it's just a it's a
puzzle and I just wasn't the right piece for that role.
And they needed someone different, with a different
skill set, a different way of working.
And you know, I just wasn't there.
I wasn't that person, which is why I left.
And I was really unhappy there, purely because of that self, you
know? I was convinced myself on what
I'm doing, I can't do this job properly.
You really do a round peg in the square box whether it's called,
you know, I mean you weren't just weren't fitting, probably
butchered that saying, but you were.
Just you were doing all the right things and being an
amazing teacher but the the environment it just didn't gel
and that just didn't gel and I have no disrespect to the people
you know I I really respect that people still I just didn't fit
in in that role. So yeah don't don't be afraid to
to quit your job and go and get another job in a different
school. The beautiful thing of teaching
is the biggest perk in the world is is is always going to be
around. The population is increasing.
There are tonnes of schools anywhere in the country.
You know that that you've got the best opportunity to to work
kind of where you want and change jobs.
It can be hard, don't get me wrong, cause you might again,
you might not be the puzzle piece that fits the school that
you're applying for doesn't mean you're bad, it just means you're
not the piece. So it can take some time.
But do you really consider moving school before you quit?
Absolutely hate it. I think hopefully people can get
a lot from that. And that is a really genuine
list there that we have taken a lot from ourselves over the
years. So, you know, we walked the walk
as well. Do try it out.
And if you've done any of these things before and it's worked
for you, do get in touch with us.
Do let us know because it's powerful for other teachers to
hear that. Because wherever, whatever
situation we're all in, there will be someone in your school
right now who's going through the exact same thought process.
If it's not you, it'll be one of your friends, it will be someone
you know. This is a really tricky.
Job, the profession is tough. It seems like it's just getting
tougher. But we love teaching children,
we love helping them. So hopefully this list Hayden
can help someone just stay in the job a bit longer.
So if you want to hear a bit more about how the job is maybe
getting a bit tougher and changing, then do make sure you
check out our episode later this week.
We'll be coming out on Monday, if you're listening today, on
Friday. And by later this week you mean
next week, Because this next week later, there's there's
three days later. This weekend, yeah.
Monday is a weekend anyway, guys.
Hopefully you enjoyed that. I'll let Hayden sign off with
his tired, scruffy look. I'll see you in the next
episode. Hopefully I'll shave my head and
beard. Bye then.
Bye guys.