Hello, valued customers and listeners.
Welcome back to this week's episode of teach seat, repeat
with your host Bill and price and me Hayden.
Sorry I was put off you. Okay, yeah, I'm fine.
I just, you know, I take things to heart and when last week you
mentioned the fact that I've started every podcast with the
exact same thing. I just thought I'm gonna freshen
out this week, going to be a robot, I'll just be rubber thing
for me smile. Yeah, that was great.
I loved it. Listen, if you're gonna force me
to break my habits of a lifetime, then you're gonna have
to put up with me thinking about every single syllable that I say
it out loud. Okay.
Yeah, but in so you remove the energy and thought, Oh, I'll
just deliver it like this instead.
Well, I think we should go back to the old one.
I hate to admit it, Dylan, but I liked the old one better.
Thank you. And again, people at home
listening, they don't see every single week.
Hayden always comments, because I do the same hand gestures as
well. And when we're getting ready to
go, we kind of line up our audio recordings.
Lot of people have asked this, by the way, do we record in the
same room? A lot of people have asked me
and we don't, we are recording this remotely and Away.
Clearly ha, ha ha. Yes, I don't know why we would
possibly lie about that, that we don't.
Yeah, I've been asked the same question, by the way.
Quite a few people and have been shocked every time, and I say
no. Hmm, different rooms different
rooms. Anyway, most boring startup
podcast ever. Let's line it up, shall we?
Let's go straight in. I know the viewers, I call them
viewers, they don't watch, I guess they watch a real every
now and then listeners want to know Hayden, they feel invested
in your life. You better give them a really
cool story. What's going on on this week?
That's nice. I like that.
I mean it's been a pretty A bog-standard week.
However, there's one highlight. That is, you know, it's
hopefully make you laugh. I was on duty playground and oh,
you're laughing already. I thought that was that wasn't a
funny bit? No, no, that wasn't then it
starts laughing at you actually remembering to go for Duty.
That's quite a fight. Yeah, touche touche, fair
enough. I'll take that.
So I was outside. Do my usual was skating around
making sure I was getting on. Alright, get caught, you know,
to stop sorry, flight attendant to a cockney.
You know, I respect that the respect that the order of the
peaky blinders, now, get off the jungle gym.
Yeah. Mysterious, he's coming.
He's coming. He's coming.
And that really they just carry on doing anything like I'm not
there. So what's it?
The further back the playground she's checking in on with kids
and rough-and-tumble all over the place and I saw, I sort of
had to interview, you know, he's just get really close to kids to
make them aware that to be, like, come on, you need to stop
doing what you're doing, but I'm not gonna say anything.
And one of them came up to me, I don't know.
This child and a younger group, obviously, in your group and
said to me, ah, right, Lord, Baal Deluxe, firstly.
I was like, let's say, got you have just, I was coming over
here because you were there, messing around a little bit.
I'm trying to put my Stern face on but then I was more annoyed
that he got it wrong. So all I did was correct this
child. I said, excuse me, but I did it
with dead stern-faced, right? So he really did not know how to
react. It's I don't think he actually
process the fact that I was joking.
That's it. Scuse me that's Lord Voldemort
to you and he apologized for getting my name wrong as if it
was my real name. Oh sorry, I didn't realize this
Baltimore. Brilliant.
So thanks Dylan for, I've trained them.
Well I wonder if I were teachers this thing.
You have that same that same kind of phenomenon of the one
place in everyone's playground where people seem to the kids
seem to think of anything. She's proper rough-and-tumble.
She's uh, Corner, you know, just out of the site, maybe of the
people who are on duty. And, but there's this, there's
always that one place and you just you walk over there and
there's 17 kids on top of each other.
Just bundling. It was like cold.
Stop that please. And I'll sorry didn't realize
they realize what that did is thing that you tell us every
single day when I allowed to do, and if you notice nothing, tell
them every single day not to do and I've written a lot of
schools. I like this but we have like
equipment at lunchtimes. We don't really get equipment, a
break times just because it can be a bit of a faff.
So break times isn't uh, you know, just go have fun and of a
la casa, get a bit of fresh air. But one of our one of our school
rules is please don't take out a pair of gloves and start kicking
it around as a football. Please don't take out a water
bottle and start kicking it around.
And basically, please don't play football break time every single
week. I'm out there and I feel like
this, is it just me? I have to remove something.
Whether it's a Pringles lid or a piece of bark.
Well, it's the most random things this week.
It was, it was a, it was a badge, a badge, that's key.
I was like they saw me come in and they will start at.
That wasn't me, I wasn't playing.
I wasn't actually playing. I was watching.
It's like yes, no I work. You were, can you stop playing
football with the badge? I wonder.
I wonder if we could get our teacher friends.
Who listen to this podcast to tell us the most random thing
being used as a football because they will find anything.
Anything they will use anything tubule.
I've seen. Yeah, I've seen before a shoe,
I've seen before a jumper, and I saw them try and fold it into a
ball shape, and kind of, you know, tie the arms around each,
They kicked it once and it fell apart and they can't.
I tell you, one of the funniest things ever happened on the
playground and it's funny. It's one of those funny things
where you can laugh about it afterwards but as a teacher in
the moment you had to not laugh and it was so hard because it
was actually for your know, those ones.
It's terrible was naughty, but it was funny and it was a shoe
right at the kids were playing football with a shoe.
One of the kids just had one shoe on and they were just
running around as you do and and obviously, I never come on.
No, don't do that. Like, don't play football with
that. And I Promise you this happened,
right? Is this kid this other child?
Who is it? Wasn't his shoe.
Picked up the shoe and just nonchalantly.
Lobbed it. Onto the roof of the school.
I was right, right there. I was right there, but he did it
as if I'd walked off. Like he like I wasn't much
anybody. Yeah.
All right. That just lobbed on to answer,
what what are you doing? And it's other kids that looking
at Shoe, like what I just I couldn't believe it happened.
It was It has but not hilarious. Yeah, as well, that reminds you
of the episode of the office when they lose the quiz and
veggies, there you guys are back a free shoe over the roof.
Yeah, that's the real quiz. That's the real quiz and that's
one of you for you guys out there who've watched the office
if you haven't ignore that last 20 seconds.
But an excellent that's not right.
Dillard. If they haven't go and watch it
because it's a fantastic show that.
Yeah, you should have said. It's the real quiz is the real
quick but that's my weak. Anyway.
Digress into other stories. Anything interesting coming from
you? I guess that nothing, like,
outlandish quite a normal week, but there was one thing that
happened that kind of did spark my memory of a previous
discussion, we had in the Pod and, and remember, one of it was
one of the first weeks now and we're just veterans at this what
we at now episode 67, something like that.
One of the earlier episodes, we talked about winning and losing
and primary school and how there's this whole perception
that in primary school. Maybe we're raising a bunch of
to quote, the word I hate, because it usually means people
who care about things snow. Flakes.
Like, you can't lose basically, everyone's a winner kind of
thing. And we talked about how that's
not true, we do celebrate success.
We also just take into account, you know, that people have
individual feelings and if that makes the snowflake then, I'm so
sorry, guys. But the current unit I'm
teaching PE, is outdoor adventure activities.
And essentially what that is, is just the weather is improving.
We got side to get the equipment out and it's all team based
games. It's races, it's competition.
It's Team building think of classic team building where you
go and build a raft. We can't build a raft, of
course, but we can do those kind of games the idea where they're
forced to work with each other and we know, don't we how it's
just such a pain for children to work in a group like it's a it's
a classic thing that as teachers we always talk about a in seeing
things on reports. If you're a parent, you'd seen
it before, will expand on their own works right in the group.
And basically what had happened is, we do some races and we were
split Teams of six six or seven, they were group sizes of five
children. Okay?
So five children in a group of four or five children, and it
was the classic, you know, get across the river only using two
mats and you can only move them at one.
Everyone stood off of it, and you can only stand in this hoop
and you're stood in a circle holding hands.
You need to get a hoop around as fast as you can without
unlinking although classic kind of things which just forced
communication. Right?
Hmm. So, the first week I did it last
week, I didn't give them any kind of talk.
I just introduced into the game, put them into teams.
And observe them and just to see how their team team building was
the working in groups and whether they were good losses or
bad losses or through a straw or have a Paddy if they were
losing. Now of course.
We know what it's like working with a.
You threw a party and I throw a party.
I got rid of they, there was a lot of falling out and there was
a lot of children over celebrating the win, you know,
really going over the top and purpose for, you're looking at
children who they knew they could wind up and trying to just
get to them. So then, at the end of last
week, I had a chat with them about You know, we spoke about
this before, there's always going to be a winner, but
there's ways to win and there's ways to lose and, you know, the
you need to learn how to develop that.
So this week we came along, I reminded them of that quickly
and they were so good. Honestly, so good.
They were, they were really encouraging their teammates,
they were losing but trying their hardest.
And this is the point. I made to them trying.
Your hardest is, is more important than winning.
It just is. And some people have a different
outlook on that. But in terms of teaching a group
of children, trying your absolute hardest There's not
much more that you can do at that point.
It's really hard especially laws like skill in life.
Isn't it to be able to work hard at everything regardless of the
outcome, right? That's a good thing.
Yeah, and I do always remember I was younger, my mom always used
to say that and that actually did that did stick with me a
lot, which was look as long as you tried your hardest.
And the reason she'd say to me is because she knew full well
that quite often. I didn't try my hardest and
that's true because I kind of coasted through doing stuff.
But, yeah. So these children were being
really good at encouraging each other after a Input improving
and all that, but I couldn't get over and I shouldn't be
surprised because it is the same every single year that been in
this profession that children really, really have to learn how
to work in a group. And, you know, that kind of
development of the individual want and need and you know, I
want to do it this way and if five people don't, I still want
to do it my way and I don't understand why I can't do it my
way and I'm just wondering what's your thoughts on that?
Because it was so evident that, you know, teaching children how
to be good. Winners and getting over bad.
That that's quite easy children. Seem to get that because they
understand empathy, but when it comes to, you know, getting
annoyed at their teammates are all your being slow.
And I want to win. Yeah.
That they could, they do quite struggle with that, don't know.
Well, I don't think it's a particularly innate ability to
be honest. If you like kind of like what
you just said there, we you do really have to teach the vast
majority of people, I think at some point in their life, how to
do, I mean, surely the evidence for that is the fact that we
have team building companies for adults.
You don't be like, this is a huge Of adulthood team building.
That is there's thousands of companies that make a living off
of providing these experiences for literal adults.
So, yeah, you know, that's that, that makes leads me to the
assumption that a lot of people go through childhood still don't
learn that skill even though we try and have to sort of hone in
on it later on in life but I agree.
I think it's a social skill and school isn't just about the
curriculum which is something we're going to talk about a lot
today. It is also also about the social
skills and everything else that, you know, comes with school as
well. It's not just math and English.
I just think it goes to show the importance of that kind of
thing. And, you know, again, this is
nothing that's going to segue into our discussion, how you
just said, but I just think it's something that, you know,
perhaps as staff we're not as highly trained in as we are in
delivering the math concept or you know, phoneme or something
like that in English. Yep.
But I think it's just so important and it's glaringly
obvious and there's the whole thing around covid, you know,
certain children of a certain age.
Missed out on reception. Get one big chunks of year to
those times where they do start interacting with other children
a lot more even Nursery. Now we're getting that far away
from covid. Yeah, and it is interesting just
to see how how we're going to plug that Gap, because we are
obsessed that and rightly. So with plugging gaps in terms
of attainment and education. Yeah that those social gaps I
do. Sometimes worry.
I think it comes under that band of well-being, You know, I think
it does is if you're going to feel better in yourself.
If you do, learn to have to learn to socially interact, an
adequate level, you see, those children.
That can't do it and they often do struggle.
They often do suffer socially because of it and the happiness
might dip because of that, I'm going to say about different
Dylan because I actually we're going to segue into the next
section right now. But before we play the jingle,
I'm going to ask you a question and after the jingle to make the
lick, you know, make their make the listeners stick around, you
know, for the whole three seconds after the gym.
Eagle. You're gonna come back and ask
that question here is, do you think British culture values
well-being? I know you will only a GSE off
that to second wait and I do have my answer.
So, thanks Hayden for that retention scheme.
Well, can I say, does British culture value well-being?
I think because of the fact we've spoken about this before
and have polarity makes for a good discussion, but bad
overall. I'm just going to give a
one-word answer. No, so bring it right to the
context of primary school then does that change in any way?
Or were you already thinking of kind of the context of I'm
thinking of that classic yet? No, no I was thinking very, I
was trying to think straight away what British culture means
to me in terms of that kind of context in general.
And the thing I think about immediately is stiff upper lip,
you know, that classic British stiff upper lip.
You know, if you've got a problem, we put up with it
because we're British and I think I don't know.
This is a very tenuous link but I'm going to make it because I
know you love politics. So very, very, very quickly
Dominic rob. You know, he got he got he
resigned over a bullying scandal basically.
Yeah and I think the British culture was on show like in
droves in some of the media. Basically this he was found of
being horribly demeaning and Bully, basically, pulling his
staff and just you know completely unacceptable way to
behave in the workplace and the amount of people who Who came
out and said, o, Britain's broken, all these snowflakes
can't even put up with with someone telling them.
They're doing their job badly and I just thought they go.
There it is. There's that massive subculture,
we've got of that generation. Who think stiff upper lip is an
acceptable way to go about life. Who think there's literally
nothing that anyone can do with words that can physically at
can, sorry, emotionally and mentally be a detriment to you
and that if you let that happen, you're the problem.
I think that is so widespread in our with Many people in our
culture. Still, I think it's going to
change generation to generation. I think the fact that he was
found guilty for bullying shows already that that culture is
changing because for sure, 30 40 years ago, no one would have
blinked, an eye lid, that your boss treating you like, rubbish.
Yeah. That was very common.
The fact, the fact that it's already changing, that respect
is good. I think people struggle with
that, who are older, and I think, in general, maybe we can
narrow this down. Now, in general, I think we
focus far more on outcome. And profit and, you know how
useful you are to the economy. For example, in a macro level
way, outweighs anything to do with your well-being, for sure.
I think it's really interesting because I don't know, maybe it's
just a personal experience. Perhaps people can let us know
if they've experienced this as well, but I am worried for the
younger Generations that those people, you know, you just
talked about the all those people that is that show their
true colors of the whole stiff upper lip and all those
snowflakes can't say anything anymore, can't even get bullied
by your boss and get on It, you know, I mean it's like what you
talkin about, I feel like a nice car sounds so old now.
But there's such a platform for those people now, like it's so
easy to get into the ears of children, through things like
Tick-Tock and Instagram rules, and that sort of stuff, because
it's just so easily accessible. And it's widely accepted that
that's just what you do. Like honestly despite the apps
being like, you know, usually 13 plus or whatever.
Their age limits are the, I have no doubt that ninety percent of
primary school children by the time they leave.
I was go are already using these apps and scrolling through hours
and hours and hours, and hours, and hours of content.
And almost definitely coming across videos of people who are
usually really confident ironically and demand a bit
more, like all. Yeah, listen to me and you know,
who better to be drawn into listening to these these people
than young impressionable children who see all out this
authority authority because I drilled to think that's what
Authority is probably through. I don't maybe for the schooling
system just the way it works and I'm just like I'm just worried
that I Youngest generation. It's going to like revert a
little bit in terms of their going to be a bit like that.
You know. They're gonna be.
Yeah. That's how you do it.
Yeah. You could be stiff upper lip.
Now we do. But I'm going to bully someone
else because they're weak because they're snowflakes.
I'm really genuinely concerned about that.
It's good, it's a widespread problem case in point, you know,
in the recent months and Route 8 case in point of and Route 8 and
the influence that he had on children as young as primary
school age because it's the classic problem of well, you
know, 80% of what he says is, all right, because he told me to
work hard and get my head down and make money and that's and,
and how can you argue against that?
But then suddenly we slip in some absolute misogynistic bile.
And and but that's all right. Because, you know, young Lads
with that, they need someone to get behind.
And you're absolutely right how impressionable this is.
Again we're going to go on a million side tangent here but
this is really interesting to me because this is another reason
exactly what you just said. Hayden is another reason why I'm
quite passionate about trying to destroy the whole Because I Said
So top down yeah but teaching and Control Authority that
because exactly because actually if we spend eleven if we spend
the first six years that's a four year six charge seven years
of their life saying to them. Older than you.
I'm the teacher, I'm the person in charge.
This is that's why if that's ever an explanation for doing
something, then it's going to breed the kind of problems that
we see of confident man on Tick. Tock says climate change is not
true. Confident man.
On Tick-Tock says horrible conspiracy theory as I grew up
in econ to politics and, you know, go down, rabbit holes.
We have to also teach our children to listen at really
important points, and actually there are certain things where
you do just listen, because don't put your hand in fire
because I No. Don't you understand?
Explain it right now because you're doing it so it's just
stop doing that. But equally when I say to them
actually I need you to stay in to do your homework because you
didn't do it going back to our talk last week.
I if I can't explain to them why we're doing that.
If the answer is just because I said so and it's what you do, I
think that long term as a detrimental effect.
Well we've mean you have talked about this a lot over the years
and I know it's a very like it's something we're super super
conscious of and I maybe it's from our own experiences growing
up. Of that frustration I remember.
And I know you do as well. It's asking the question.
Why a lot? I was that kid and you were that
kid? Why?
Why do I have to do that? What you have is your parents or
someone older tells you to do something and you don't
understand why. So you ask why?
And when the answer is, because I told you do, as you're told
like, that is an infuriating response, I don't respect that.
So as a teacher I will I hope I don't I hope I don't buy in my
head. I never demand respect from the
children. And never ever, ever demand
respect from the children. I always go out South and go out
of my way to earn their respect because they are human beings.
Doesn't matter if they're 9 or 10 or whatever I earn their
respect and like you said I try to show them that they all
thought my authority in that school is not because I'm the
biggest loudest person in the room.
It's because of my credentials of the profession I've built up
is because I know what I'm doing and I'm there to support them in
these ways like yeah. And I think there is a line.
I think you're absolutely right because we do Do you know,
demanding respect? Someone might interpret that in
a different way and we do have to demand a certain kind of
respect when we walk in, because we're there in the first place,
right? And but it's because of
credentials. And I think you your idea of
it's not just because I'm loud. It's not just because I'm
confident or taller than you or older.
It's because I've got these X Y, Zed credentials and what you
said about building relationships.
Number one, advice to Any teacher who's just starting out
ever is always for me, going to be that Make a bond with them,
find some common ground, make sure they like being in your
lesson like that should be one of your main goals.
Not because you want to feel like or love and by the
children, but because you're going to be able to get more out
of them, using your experience, your professionality, you know,
you're going to get more out of each child.
I've got a very quick story on the idea of, you know, when
parents just tell you because and it's such a trivial one, but
it sums it up perfectly. The kind of child, I wasn't.
Maybe that's why influences us. And like you said, Ed and I know
I'm listening to this podcast, I sure remember this story I made
a tub of Angel Delight. Okay.
So I made a big plastic tub of Angel Delight which all up and
what I would do is it's quite a lot and I could probably eat in
one sitting but I never normally did when I was younger, my for a
face which is loving Angels. Now and put it, you do now.
Yeah I mean it's in the fridge that so I made a big tub of
Angel Delight with a with a spoon.
I was eating it just out the tub.
Classic student Behavior. I was like probably seven to add
a know. I was a I was a late.
And I'd eaten enough of what I wanted.
So I took the bowl with a spoon in and I put that in the fridge
and the idea was I'm going to come back to that in half an
hour. I need some more of it and
always remember my mom over the fridge and she's like tellin,
why is the spoon in here? I was just like, what?
I just because I'm gonna want to eat something now.
Put that wash the spoon and put it back.
I was just like why and she said because you don't put spoons in
the fridge and for Allah Of people that might have been the
end of the conversation liked it, you know?
I understand it to her. It's like, yeah.
You don't put spoons in the fridge so put it out and my I
was that annoying kid. I was like, yeah, but why can't
I put in the what's going to happen?
This means I'm going to combust in the fridge is not going to
Krakow microwave. I want to use that spoon.
Yeah. But our use that spoon in 20
minutes. I agree again and it was just so
funny seeing, you know, that the person who's kind of say just do
this thing, kind of realized that other than just doing this
thing, there isn't actually a reason for doing this thing.
That's not there for good enough reason to do it.
But I was 16 so I took this been out.
I'm sure and I put it I put it back in the cupboard.
Got it back. 20 minutes later. That's just a classic example.
Yeah, when I edit this podcast I'm gonna go from me asking the
question does breadth of British culture, family well-being, and
I'm going to cut straight to that spoon story and see ya.
That's where we got to. That's something that's really
good. But like bringing do we do bring
it back to that though that there are kind of original point
of the discussion? What we really want to talk
about in this podcast is, is that is the curriculum?
And so we talked about well-being 20 minutes and we
want to talk about the crew. Yeah it's linked.
It's linked you know because and I will make the links ooh, nice
not to make it too quickly but we want to talk about the kind
of ever increasing expectations, perhaps of the curriculum and
and it also just gives some of this.
We have a lot of listeners that aren't teachers aren't in the
educational world. Thank you for listening, but the
way quick story on that, by the way, got a coming straight away.
Because last week I think you used the word pedagogy 27 times
and not once, did we tell our listeners what pedagogy was and
I had For I think five messages from five different people talk
about the fact. They didn't know what put the
Gaggia meant. So having what's pedagogy
pedagogy is our God? How do you define that?
It's actually, it's actually a digimon.
This is the evolution of pedagogy better Gadget, your
pecans pedagogy guys, really hard to Define it.
It's like teaching Concepts. It's what it's it's different
ways of teaching. Yeah of course a point.
Yeah different pedagogy seen. At the way you might teach in
different styles. Different ways.
I did post a Google definition of It.
So if you didn't like that, really bad.
Definition of pedagogy go to Google.
You made me realize how hard that is to explain.
Anyway, so a lot of people who are listening, might not know
much about the curriculum. How it actually works at Primary
School's, you probably think of secondary school being the last
place you were and in primary school.
We the expectation is as teachers that is that we teach
everything we teach every subject.
Basically we have our core subjects which are math English
and science. But we do have all of the
foundation subjects which consists of Nothing else in
geography history. There are more subjects in
secondary that, you know, might you might start studying but we
do the basics so history, geography, R DT music for modern
modern foreign languages, which sometimes, French?
Or Spanish, depends on the school, really what I missed.
Probably miss won't be Computing pee yet PE.
So we gotta teach older than basically.
If you're lucky, you might have a specialist teacher, that works
at your school and takes maybe one or two of those subjects
away. But generally teachers, teach, A
thing. Now one of the biggest kind of
discussion debates or issues, I guess in primary education is
this kind of ever-rising expectation to teach all of this
stuff in a timetable that is restricted by time.
Like there's only so much time in a week, those darn timetables
restricted by time, goddamn it to teach these the only subjects
and it's just a constant constant problem across the
country of. Okay, cool.
Thanks. This government.
When do you want me to do this new thing that I now have to
teach geography. Like what?
So when you when you're talking about.
So again we say new thing, we're a bit context for everyone.
The curriculum does get updated. You know, there was a time when
we didn't have a national curriculum.
Yeah, but the curriculum was last updated in 2013.
I believe it was a year or two before we started teaching.
So we've only ever known this curriculum.
And basically, we've got to follow this curriculum as a
state funded school. So we've got to follow the
curriculum and like Hayden said, the idea is we've got to fit
everything in now Hayden and I wanted to clarify now is okay.
You want to want to kind of send to this discussion about
well-being and I suppose those two routes to go down there.
One route would be the well-being of the staff,
delivering, the curriculum. And the other route would be the
well-being of the children, who are receiving the curriculum?
Sure. So, you know, where did you want
to start? I think both would be
interesting but maybe we. Maybe we start with the children
for this one, I know it make more sense that the adults by
kind of want to just route it back to the kind of original
point of this. Because when I was saying, do
you think British culture values well-being?
What I was really getting at here was my actual like feeling
about this, which is, I don't think the British government
value or even maybe understand they might pretend to Value, but
I don't think they do the well-being of children like our
Learners. I just don't think they do value
that because I think their response to Any problem for
example League tables, which is just a nightmare.
We're always comparing ourselves of ourselves and also other
countries and well you know, when we're not performing as
well as another country, I think our government's response to
that is cool well-being out the window, let's do more.
Absolutely. Let's just do more, that's your
response. What's that you only doing eight
hours that it clearly we need to do nine hours a day then,
because I'm not learning enough. It's counterproductive.
It was the same narrative after covid.
You know, obviously covid exposed huge old created, huge
gaps, rather in children's knowledge and you know the
curriculum is very intricately. Designed more for some subjects
as well come on to and you know missing out certain gaps
especially in maths and also in English and times you know
spending progression and Grammar and Writing there was huge hits
to them and we have to do something to fill those gaps,
but I always always thought straight off the bat that when
they said, Okay. Long booster sessions before or
after school and lengthening the school day which was a thing
that came in. Yeah, I just thought that was.
It's just so counterproductive because the people making these
decisions, I just feel half the time, don't have to teach a
class after having taught them, Maths for an hour and 20
minutes, taught them English for an hour and 20 minutes.
They've had a short break after eating their lunch and then had
to sit down and do a turn off our lesson in the afternoon.
I don't think these people absolutely agree with you.
Hayden are thinking of the children's well-being because it
is a slog and children should work hard at school and children
should be pushed to achieve their best at school, but there
has to be a line. And I think that the curriculum
although it's not always changing.
I understand what you mean about ever, increasing expectations.
And that comes down to ofsted there.
Every single change ever that I've seen in schools, that have
been massively driven, workload up and added stress and
well-being. Has been by ofsted in our
expectations and now actually, what we need to see is this
progression map on paper pleas of these skills, which is
important. Sure, but it's another thing
you've got to do. And then also in geography, by
the way, it's another thing you've got to do.
And actually, by the way, in spin PE, we now need to have
more P. There's a huge drive to get two
hours a week in because not all schools doing two hours a week
and you know, why not all schools have been 2 hours of PR
week because they literally can't deliver the curriculum
that you've set. And it's just this constant
tug-of-war of the government trying to say the right thing in
the Media to get the right attention in the mail to make
the old people say I asked they do deserve the best.
Are these teachers not giving our kids the best, and the kids
are at a detriment as well. You're absolutely right.
Not just yeah, but yeah, but Dylan, you're wrong because
ofsted said res, very recently. They came out and said in their
own report on themselves that they wasn't negatively affecting
well-being of anyone. So we've been getting it wrong.
Like we've teachers, if you're listening for you, you're gonna
feel so silly right now because off steam cabinet.
They just, they told us, they haven't been sorry, it's not
them. They said I was crazy because I
do. I swear, I swear that I felt
stressed and overworked. No, clearly, I have awesome told
us. It wasn't you.
Weren't you actually find the whole time.
So offset. It came out and said no, no, no,
and they admitted that the only time that teachers might feel
slightly stressed due to a died as a direct result of ofsted is
when they're actually in the school.
So guys, you know, yeah, stiffen that upper lip and crack on with
it. Right, to be honest, I haven't
even I don't really hear the word offset or even think about
it until they don't rock up. No, it definitely doesn't taste
anything that school does? Oh, wait a minute.
It affects literally okay. Yeah.
Okay, cool. It's like the only trickle down
version of anything that works in our country.
It is trickle-down economics. We've got trickle-down work load
and stress. That one works, we've proved it
work somehow. The problem is government works
in Really weird way in our country because we get, you
know, we've had eight or nine education secretaries in like
seven or eight years. There is no consistent thread
and because the whole you know, the Civil Service are the people
who are constantly working and they're just employed, they work
in the department for Education. They'll work on this with
ministers to deliver the government's Vision but the
ministers and their Department of Education Secretary.
So the education secretary might change frequently.
The people actually implementing these changes are just like a
consistent group. Happy.
I'd be really interested to find out more about who these people
are because they are at the will of the government at the end
because, you know, the government are voted in and they
want to say, okay, actually we're going to make this happen
and then The Minister's make sorry, the work, the Civil
Service make that happen. But I don't know, I think, and
I, maybe it's a really cynical view of politicians in general.
But I can't get over my overriding thought of.
I think they say, and do exactly what they think will look good
way more than what they think is.
Good. I think I think from that point
of view being able to release a press saying that they've learnt
from the school day by half an hour or 45 minutes will not to
lose the many votes and it will strengthen their base of people
who think teachers are lazy anyway and should work more.
And also people who are just like ya off.
Ya 45. I've never worked in the school
my life but I absolutely think that an extra 45 minutes is
going to help the children do stuff.
Yeah, I think I think that's what it is.
It's hard because it because I can understand the logic there.
Because in a lot of things in life, when you do more, you get
more outcome. But it is, is like that.
So all of us working people. So I imagine you imagine, you
know, a carpenter, it's like yes if you did put in an extra hour
day, you would literally make more stuff that is how it works.
But if you know, I just, I strongly disagree with the idea
that more time at school, equals more learning, I don't think it
is anywhere near as simple as that.
And I think that is hugely backed up by other other places
around the world. Now, I'm no expert on this and I
No, there are other factors like a lot of people often compared
with China. I don't know why.
But that's just seems to be quite a common one to compare
with and people often say well, you know, in China, they do this
and they do that. But you do have to take into
account like The Wider culture, as well as people like that does
obvious impact hugely how children grow up, like it's not
just school, but like, but there are places that are a bit more
close to home, I guess. Like, Finland is often quoted
Denmark the Netherlands that area, right?
No tourist in famously have the Shortest kind of primary school
days, I very short days, some places.
I think it's Denmark have something like as reduced like
20 hours a week in some cases I do.
I'm not sure that's like consistent for the country but
I've heard like I've seen reports the things of that.
And you think? Wow.
Okay. That's like wildly different.
Finland will have some school days at like, 4 hours, 4 hours
long. And that's just like standard or
they'll start school a bit later.
But when it comes to league tables, they can they
continuously outperform. Most of the Like they do really
well. And again we have to consider
the idea that okay maybe a lot of that has to do with culture
as well. Perhaps sure culture outside of
the school also hugely impacts that but I do find it really
interesting. I think I think you hit the nail
on the head and if I'm going to bring it back to England, I
don't like being this - I actually don't.
I really hate moaning and complaining but I can't help but
think that England has the perfect mix of absolute garbage
when it comes to our children's well-being.
I know the perfect me there's a bit of banana skin in there.
There's leftover dinner from yesterday and there's that
bottom of the bin juice. That's just constantly lingering
just like my dream. Is absolutely rubbish.
Let's just think about it for a minute again.
We're not experts on this, but it's just so blindingly obvious.
Think about those countries, they don't go to school until
they're at 7:00, right? They start school at 7:00,
that's the three for us, that's year three and these countries
who are performing as well, if not better than eyes are
starting school at 7:00. Here's the horrible, horrible
mess. We have some of the most
expensive child care in the world, children are From a state
point of view, a burden, they are a burden.
If you're thinking of having a child in this day and age, you
have to really think about whether you can afford it or not
even if you know both of you are in full-time work.
If both partners are in full-time work, and it's still a
stress because we get situation in this country and it's usually
predominantly women who want to get back into the workforce, but
it doesn't make sense for them to do so, because it ends up
costing them nearly as much to put their child in daycare.
R, as it does to actually go back to work.
There's not this staying at home, as a parent, for numerous
reasons of wanting, to empower the female Workforce more often
than not. And also the fact it's
unaffordable is less and less attractive.
Okay? It's less and less attracted to
stay home and less able for people to do that as much as
possible. Yeah, because we have terribly
expensive. Childcare, we just don't have
the infrastructure and when it Stu, I'm thinking of strike
days. Again, there's another strike
tomorrow as we record this. So this week when you're
listening that again the thing straight away is our childcare,
our childcare. And you know, we need a culture
change of whatever going to reach the levels of Finland.
We're turning around now to the British population and saying,
okay, we're going to a 20-hour week for all school children
would be impossible. It would be completely
impossible through what would happen to work, what would
happen, you know to all those things that cost so much now,
where would the children go? I just think as a culture we are
nowhere near being able to introduce anything like that.
And I think the idea of longer days and wraparound care is all
linked to getting people back to work.
And it's what we said at the start in terms of well-being in
this country, you are a cog in the economic wheel and all the
government care about is getting you back into work.
Getting you back into work and you work in as long as possible,
get into get into these, you know, 4050 our weeks.
It's fine because we'll Nanny your children for a bit from
8:00 to 4:30 with this metal mask.
Of them will be great. I just think well-being is
completely shot and it's the lowest lowest thing on the Run
lowest thing on the ladder. And there, you know, happy
living index, there's this index where it takes in everything and
it's basically a how happy your country is.
These countries that you've just explained, are always ranking
High Scandinavian countries because they put these things
first. I'm not going to lie.
I don't want to work 50 60, 70 hours a week.
And it's another very British thing to be ashamed to say that
sometimes. And it's celebrated, ah, he
works 70 hours a week for his whole life, and he's got a, he
deserves a good retirement at 74.
And I saw articles, the other day of, you know, 87 year old
woman, still working and shop and I'm like, cool.
There are benefits to that, but the moment that someone who's 87
feels like they have to go to work to survive.
Our country is broken. So if you're not a teacher and
even if you are, it's good to reflect in this, I suppose, the
national curriculum is a document that we work from its
200 pages long, the primary National curriculum.
So going from years, 12 years, six Haydn Beethoven pop quiz for
you. Okay, let's see.
Just now that's a No-No. You don't have this one up.
I hope I'm going to read to you just, just the listeners and for
you to refresh your memory from earlier every single subject.
So I think you've got them all earlier, but I'm not sure if you
missed one. So in a national curriculum, we
have English maths science Art and Design Computing, DT
geography, history languages music and PE.
There are obviously other requirements in there that don't
go into much detail. Like you know schools have to
teach re there's not necessarily an exact set set of, you know, a
curriculum to follow. Basically each school.
Can decide how they do that but they're there.
The subjects they are the lessons.
Now it's a 200 Page document. Obviously, there are some,
there's some Preamble, there's some references Etc, right?
How many pages out of 200? Mmm, do you think is dedicated
to English math and science? So the core subjects and
obviously I know it's going to be weighted more towards them.
I know it is. So I'm gonna go for like a
percentage. I reckon I deny record honestly.
It's what it's gonna be crazy high even though it's only three
of like what 12 subjects is going to be like 40% of the of
the documents. Oh My Sweet Summer child.
What is it? Lower 175 Pages out of 200. 000
is dedicated to English maths and size.
It really that much. Yeah.
It just under 90 percent of the dockyard.
I knew it, I knew it'd be a lot and science.
Yep. Wow.
So 175 pages, to the most granular of detail.
It's to the point where you could pick up year for maths.
Look at the bullet points of the strands and probably plan Lesson
by lesson your year, okay? That's how granular it is, for
Maths for English. There's progression on all the
spelling rules or of the grammar and punctuation terms.
This glossaries, there's everything you need to do in
terms of the strands. For reading, there's everything
you need to incorporate into your writing and every single
year group so that's very, very particular as well.
Yep, science as well. It tells you exactly what
subjects to cover at what time in the curriculum, which is As
much detail as we go into four other ones as we'll talk about
in a minute. So basically, you can dive into
math English and Science and pretty much any school, you kind
of know what you're going to get in your for there's far.
Less room for wiggle room. Basically, you know, we all know
we're doing in those subjects. What I find, really fascinating?
As a flip side of that is, for example, the entire geography
curriculum for primary school is on three sides of a 4 and that's
just a primary school is a long time.
Let's just reiterate Like how much of a time span is as well?
Six years. Six years of your learning for
geography, condense, the three pages, history for Pages
languages, two pages music, two pages, pé de PE, by the way, the
huge drive to get children active and fit two pages, happy
for for D and T, 2 for computing to for Art and Design.
Wow. And, you know, I understand and
we know, don't we Hayden? We teach math every single day.
We teach English Today we teach science more than we teach the
other subjects. However, that is
disproportionate and when we're thinking about the curriculum,
we have to deliver, it's a huge workload to interpret that
curriculum for subject leaders, and the point I wanted to make
Hayden and maybe you could elaborate on this and what you
think, I think straight away here in terms of History, has
some very specific skills that we need to teach our children
that aren't necessarily transferable.
You know, you know, interpreting sources, primary sources,
secondary reliability, thinking, historically, exactly thinking
historically, as well. And those strands of, you know,
power Invasion, Community, very specific to history topics.
And then you dip into geography, as well, which were supposed to
deliver. And we're supposed to be going
through all of the thinking geographically strands, which,
you know, using reading Maps thinking about communities
thinking about their interactions with the physical
world and the man-made world and it's very specific.
Hi Awful stuff that we have to be able to master and deliverer
to our children. And I just, I just can't help
but think just to compare two secondary.
I'm not suggesting, it's much easier because a secondary
teacher is a specialist in geography, has to know a huge
amount in each of the Year groups.
So I understand from their point of view, but I find it really
tricky as a primary school teacher, to be able to know.
So accurately, all of those very specific strands and deliver
them all, when actually I've got to teach, you know, 12 different
subjects across the term. Well, it reminds me actually
here for last week's conversation, little bit where
we mentioned the idea of we were talking about, like, when your
teacher training and are saying, just hold back on the subject
knowledge, just focus on learning how to teach.
And I made that point, I've like, you're going to teach 200
different subjects and we kind of joked about it, but it is
true. We are, you are going to teach
like 200 different units within the 12 subjects across, you
know, across a few years and I agree with you.
In terms of is a little bit mad, really isn't it?
I don't know if there is an expectation.
But to have any expectation that Primary School teachers, you
know, are masters of all of these subjects and have that
really deep specific knowledge of everything because it's a
very hard thing to do. And like you said, Secondary
School teachers, although they have a much wider cut, you know,
subject knowledge base to, to know, off the back of that hand
because they are a specialist in that subject.
At least it's one subject that you can really just dig dive
deep into it, you know, I mean, Yeah, I suppose my wider point
was there's almost too, too kind of pulls of knowledge as a
teacher right there. Is that actual knowledge of, for
example, how long is the Nile and how did communities, you
know, live around them and why was it useful and why did it
encourage, you know, migration or whatever it is that specific
you know, fact knowledge factual knowledge still I think it's
acceptable to be like, okay well you know you have to just learn
that the time but very specifically just the strands of
of Kills, that's specific to geography, specific to history,
specific to Art, and Design specific to DT, specific to
music, specific to PA that those strands, that go through the
whole kind of Journey Through year, 3 year, 4 year, 5 through
different teachers, that's kind of missing in terms of that
Mastery because in a secondary school of you, teach geography
to your seven, eight nine ten. You could see the kind of
progression there of in history, how we teach communities, and
how it how it gets more complicated and and it goes It
moves through we've kind of got to try and pick that up.
I was like if I'm a year for Teacher I've got to think about
how actually they were talking unities with a different teacher
last year, how they might be taught in next year and make
sure the pitch is absolutely right here.
And it's and and that's where the kind of organization of the
subject leads. We're very lucky in our school.
We have a mazing subject leaders who put so much time into these
amazing documents where we can kind of click on and find out as
we're planning. But in terms of just retaining
it in our head and being able to naturally do that and in a way
that we can for maths let's say or for English.
Shhhh shhhh those core subjects where it's so meticulously laid
out. I think that idea of giving a
school, two pages for history, curriculum and expecting this
beautifully designed like, you know, well, coherent thing that
works like clockwork. There's a huge gap, there and
workload that is just expect that happened.
And the idea that Asik ofsted might scrutinize you on the
effectiveness of this, of what you do and it's like I got a
minute. Sorry.
Have you seen the document that you gave me?
The government, have you, have you seen the document that I was
actually given? I think I've done a pretty good
job considering The two pages that they gave me, this is what
I've created from it, like it, give it, give it, give me a
break, you know, I mean, but in terms of the specialist
knowledge, are you mentioned, English and maths?
And I do think, like, if I was to describe a primary school
teacher, what's their specialist knowledge?
A lot of people, I think would say, oh, nothing, you know, we
teach me everything I love you. That's true.
I think we are really specialized in teaching early
math and English Core math score English, the foundations that is
our special specialism, you know, I think that's what we do
but but when it comes to the other subjects it just Can't be.
You might have an invested interest in one or two other
subjects, right? And that's just, that's a,
that's a bonus. That's if we can get that we,
you know, we love those teachers because if we can get a teacher
in, that is like, super passionate about history.
It's like brilliant, because we're going to go, we're going
to draw on that knowledge and that passion.
But generally speaking, no, we can't be masters of all of these
things. So, we need a well designed
curriculum. Thanks government for not giving
us that, it's just what it is, which is why schools will often
buy into schemes and things and stuff.
Changes a lot over the years because it is just isn't doing
what you said. Maybe a scheme doesn't provide
that can really good coherence through the year groups because
it's not going to be the same person teaching it unlike in
secondary school. You know.
I don't know what the year threes are doing in something of
I'm in year six. I can't kind of tweaked my
teaching on both of those year groups to so it flows better.
There has to be a coherence through the scheme that your
schools using the teachers can just pick up.
And and that's where the work of subject leaders is just so
invaluable but it but it is That it's hours and hours and hours,
and hours of work. And I just feel like sometimes
they're, you know, they've done it for maths.
They've, you know, math is like, you know, about 60 pages of that
document. Mmm.
I just feel like we could get a bit more detail and it would
just help us out so much in terms of well-being, a question
for you. Why do you think given the fact
that the curriculum is actually so short for the foundation
subjects? Generally, why do you think we
do struggle as you know, as a profession?
So often and he's always He seems to have been a problem
like the last 10 years. Anyway, we're always harping on
about how much we struggle to fit everything in.
Why do we struggle to fit everything in?
Why do you think that is? I think although it's two pages
in the curriculum it kind of leaves.
So much stuff, open to interpretation.
And I think what you've got to match the curriculum up with is
various ofsted Frameworks and ofsted it, you know,
expectations and I just I can't, I'm break that link.
I can't um, break that link of having worked as a primary
school teacher for many years and spoken to many teachers in
lots of different schools. This isn't just a personal kind,
Of reflection, it's just an effect as a teacher being a
forum seeing lots of people, the pressure to deliver, all of
these things comes from the pressure of what ofsted will
expect to see when they come in, because there's plenty of
things, I think in the afternoon curriculum where you could
probably draw a line much earlier but it won't be accepted
and schools fear that it won't be accepted if ofsted came in
and said, right? We're going to Deep dive into
geography, I think a lot of schools will be very scared and
I think 90% Of what happens half the time is kind of cover for an
offset come in. As if to say look okay, we
understand what we just said. We can't have 16 geography
Specialists. That's impossible.
So we have gone out of our way to create 6789 documents so that
our teachers can click in and see exactly what they did in
last year. In this exact topic that kind of
goes through the whole year group.
I think that the problem is well, being it's just cool, that
2-page Document Plus ofsted framework has just created This
horrible cycle of just and I think the other problem is
despite it not being you know very very granular.
It is very clear. What you have to do still is
like in for example, in history you have to do, you know, a
British base module and a rest of the world base module and you
have to go into detail, about you know, how invasions happen,
how power struggles happened. It does manage to fit a lot into
that, but it doesn't necessarily tell you how to do it and that's
where the work that comes in. I've Got a Theory, right?
And it might be a little bit. Specialist in the is just my
opinion. Okay, so I want to share with
you. I reckon I could fix it.
All right guys, I'm sorry. Pop up the phone guy.
Hey, hang on, not in this case only one second.
Oh yeah, I might no, no listen. Listen, strikes well-being
workload mate. Hold the phone line.
Okay. Tim Stevens, teach the repeat
make. This is the this episode.
Here we go. Ready.
I was gonna play now. Put your loudspeaker make one
second and Irish you mate. Listen, I've got a solution.
No in all seriousness, right? This is just in time, Just going
off on here, but just just hear me out, don't you know?
Laughing a little straight way, but if I could go to alternate
universe, this thing is this can't happen.
What about to say? Just won't ever happen, right?
So I can say hello, because no one's ever gonna be able to do
it. We can't prove me wrong, but I
think I really do think. Maybe we do struggle to fit it
all in. And I think I've huge problem of
that is the fact that we, that we have to do, and I say have to
do in inverted commas, we have to do so much English and maths
like that. Take, it takes up so much of our
daily time. And I do think that that comes
from a few different Avenues of pressure.
For example, the fact that we are just a judged against it, on
the teacher level and on a school level, we just are judged
on our Master, English results. So, of course, they're going to
get an unfair proportion of like, how much we do have them,
but I truly think if we take the holistic view of children,
right? And we think about you Finland,
the Scandinavian countries, and all the stuff we were talking
about earlier, and how that, maybe we should value well-being
more, because we just don't seem to do it.
And we don't seem to link well-being, to You actually
learn more if you if you are happy right?
I would, if I was in charge, I would massively reduce how much
math English. We teach, I reckon, we could
still hit the same, the same targets ironically of maths and
English. I reckon sure you can still
learn the same amount with considerably less lessons on it.
And that one phenomenon I've experienced in my career with
children is quite often. When I'll teach something, maybe
near the end of a term and after half term that we really solid
in that, Where they've had a bit of consolidation time where
their brains just had an actual moment to just like let it
almost like let that sink in you know that classic phrase and I
really I would love to test it. I wish I could just go and be
that in charge of my own made-up universe and do this and I would
I be like cool, right? Let's massively reduce the
amount of mass in the issue that shortened the day a little bit.
Let's introduce way more fun stuff.
That is topic-based. Centered around the other
subject still geography, history and all that but way more of the
day are these cool. All fun projects.
I feel like school for that. But for me was a bit more like
that to be honest with you I think it's changed a lot since I
was at school a little bit less maybe you'd have to do maths and
English every single day for like an hour and a half each and
I think I don't think you'd see a massive decrease in
performance in math and English and I think you'd see a huge
increase in children enjoying learning enjoying school and
just their well-being will be better.
That's my theory. It's interesting.
It's interesting, that's wasting our time on a pipe dream.
Like I said that you were drinking in the hope some you
must figure out what. Yeah, now I've not going to add
to that. I'm not going to go into it.
I think it's a really interesting.
I do think you're onto something, I just look at the
curriculum. Then he had to that to kind of
back you up a bit is how the curriculum since I was at school
and I'm That old ladies and gentlemen, has massively dipped
down. And what I mean by dip down is
there's genuinely things that I did in year 7 and 8 that we now
do in year 4, 5 & 6. Yeah.
But that is just a fact that the level we aspire to reach to
because governments feel like they have to be doing something
to show that we're making progress, we have to reach this
by. Then genuinely the stuff in
primary school, that I never did until secondary school, and it's
just not necessary. I'm here.
Hello, nothing changed. Because I didn't do congruent.
Goals quicker. Yeah, yeah.
I think you're my biggest gripe and I reckon so many teachers
that are listening to this right now.
I'm going to be like yes because I just I think this is gonna
nail on the head right. Writing attainment, I think
being a year, six teacher and it would don't have any SEC just
work in a primary school, right? The level in which the bar has
become to reach like greater depth, which anyone listening is
kind of like above average is like the highest grade you can
get in writing by the end of year.
Six, I am not joking. When I say this you have to be a
perfect writer. Yeah.
Like you could, you have to be at the level in which you could
literature book, and it would come across as an adult.
No one would even know you. I'm not joking, I'm not
exaggerating. I'm not exaggerating that people
that don't. I want to add something to that
as to professionals here, you would agree with me, okay?
The great, the greater depth barrier for what we're judging
10 year olds on Is higher truly then ever, I reached until I
became a teacher and saw what you needed to do to get there.
I would never have produced writing that, that included
everything that has to be included to be greater depth
naturally. I never ever would have done
that unless I had the list in front of me and even then I
would, I would struggle to get everything incoherently to make
it, make sure it makes sense. Once I became really confident
with the kind of Greater depth standard of teaching, you're
sick, X. I did actually go back and look
at some of my old essays and things that I wrote a university
before I started teacher training and I thought because
my theory was these aren't going to be as good.
These the essays I wrote at University level are not going
to be as good as honestly, the expectation that we have for
these children. So that for me and it's true by
the way, they weren't a good. I mean you know maybe it's just
me but I did but I got through University just fine and it just
think Christ. And then I went back and for a
bit of fun. With the kids, I found my your
seven books, I still got them all in the loft.
I found my year 7 because I went to grammar school and I had my
English books out. And I looked at them with the
children and I was like, I could, I was almost a bit
embarrassed, really? But I just wanted to show you
because they were feeling a bit down.
At this time, they were like, really hard on themselves and I
was like, you, I doing so amazing.
It's not your fault that the bar is like, unacceptably high.
You're doing so well, just look at what I did in year 7, and
it's right was rubbish. At my punctuation was all over
the place. I did, I honestly didn't know
what I was doing. I did not write particularly
well but it wasn't as valued. Then what I was good at was just
being creative. I had really nice creative
sentences, they weren't punctuated very well and they
didn't always make perfect sense.
But yeah, well, that's what I always heard.
You know, you've had it as well. That curriculum did move towards
more of a, you know, old-fashioned include this
punctuation. That bind us were type.
We need to know what knocks other auxiliary verb is guys
because that's more important than this.
Massively interesting piece of writing you're doing, I need to
do a check box of this this this, and this to tick you off
it. Yeah.
You know, it's just it's what it is.
It's this is the problem when politics and education are so
entwined. You know it's always going to be
the case that we're going to be at the whim of the government's
fancy at the time to prove a point that may be nothing to do
with education. It's just a point of, you know.
Yeah, one thing that always stick to Me, Maybe we can finish
up very soon. We've got a couple of stories
this week and then we'll finish up.
Maybe, but one thing that always sticks, me is in the new
curriculum when I was at University, so they The
curriculum was brand-new pretty much because I went to
University in 2014 or 15 for teaching.
And so, the curriculum is one or two years old.
They always were saying, the new curriculum, the new curriculum
which to us was just the curriculum.
And one of the lecturers made this point.
He was talking about how we're trying to encourage children to
be active, and to be fit and to move more, so big Drive.
Okay, showed how old school. This was, we go obviously the
education sector at the time. Who, you know, this curriculum
was his baby, very Victorian, very old-fashioned.
And and it was summed up by this.
It was given as an example in one of the documents at the
time, of a way to discipline a child for doing something wrong
was to send them to do laps of the field.
In 2013 that was published as a punishment.
And the idea was, what are you doing?
Making exercise running a punishment, like what is that
saying again? From the T know, whatever time
for our, you know, they love what his thought.
I did get some movie. No, did it?
It takes two boxes, two birds with one stone.
I don't it. Yeah, I don't even think it was
that. I don't even.
Give them that much credit. I think they went.
Well, I did it when I was at eated, we turned out.
All right. Did we know you didn't make it.
So do one. His eye, when he said, I've
talked to my granddad or something like that, and it will
say things like, oh, yeah, it was telling the same story every
time. You know, I remember getting me
Knuckles rapped by a cane or I do you see a board rubber like
flying across the room? It hit you in the head but they
don't, but my granddaughter. She doesn't look back at that
fondly. He looks back at that as I thank
God it changed because that was Dreadful.
Yeah, it made me hate being at school so I was actually quite
relieved to hear that did it. Yeah.
Oh, what being hit on the head? 70 years later, they also do all
bitter. That?
Yeah, it was a terrible experience, wasn't it?
It's like you're literally cause it's wrong.
I like this ridiculous. Of course, we need to move away
from Google goes old school. Victorian methods of teaching,
what a ridiculous time, anyway, Hayden, I've got a couple of
story, so we'll play the jingle and we'll wrap it up and there's
some good ones, there's some good ones.
So, guys, stick around past the jingle, Wow guys, you made it
your back again, after through all the ads, the three seconds
every second. What's going on?
Dylan what was your stories may? Come on.
I wanna hear some good stuff. So I loved it this week, I
absolutely love that this week last week, we talked about
teacher training and again, every now and then.
I asked her story. Some people send us some I
didn't even ask for any of this week and we got one of our
listeners who messaged us. How does it go again?
Oh Instagram, which is teach sleep.
Repeat podcast, find us there and send us messages.
We love it but this listener got in touch and it was leaked to
teach training because she is training to become a teacher.
So I'm going to read this to you.
Hey, Adam, I just I love these stories.
I also love it when people send a stories and have written it in
a way that we read it because I can just sit here on my phone
and tell you. So I've read this, you haven't,
I just loved it. So I'm going to start from the
top. Hey guys, I'm a regular
listening to your podcast and I'm a teacher in training doing
a three-year-long degree. I absolutely love your podcast
and it says the reality are both positive and negative of
teaching that they don't prepare you for in universities.
I know that these stories are probably a bit too late for the
teacher training episode, but I wanted you to have them.
Anyway, I didn't have to read that but it's really lovely.
So I wanted to let everyone know especially said it was really
nice to read so thank you anyway.
The first one, some background information so it's public
knowledge that my favorite animals are cows.
I I have a cow print, Apple watch strap and often wear cow,
print clothing, as a teacher as a training teacher.
I like to ask her children random questions to get to know
them. I used to love that part, you
know, when you first went into school and you start building
relationships with the first time, the class is so good.
Anyway, she likes to end them last time random questions to
get to know, like, what's your favorite color?
Animal's food. So she's in a history class and
there was one child who they were just a bit aware of would
be shouting, would kind of have no filter.
Yes, Was aware of this child, very lovely kid, but just kind
of wasn't able to keep thoughts in their head sometimes which is
also always a recipe for a good story.
It was also well known. That, his favorite animals are
pigs. So everything he has is pig
related. So he it's a good combo here.
The teacher has a favorite animal of cow and he has a pig.
Anyway, now I call the children chickens, I refer to the whole
class as my flock. I love that, I love that.
Yeah, I pet names from like icicle and chicken nuggets for a
bit. And now just like Yeah, they
were just like obsessive it. So she calls her two children
chickens and then they have flock, I don't know why I do it
but the histories find it hilarious.
Anyway, I was having my observed English lesson with my mentor.
My University lecturer. The lesson was going great and I
gave them a think, pie, share activity.
I think this is just where they basically go off and share their
ideas. I've never heard of this, so I'd
be interested to know what that is exactly, but basically the
children were discussing their thoughts on a on something.
They just covered And all was fine.
I regained The Chosen attention and obviously there are a few
that are really deep into conversation and just use this
opportunity for chat General chitchat and chatter.
So she begins to say right chickens.
Next, we're going to and that one child, that loves Pig's
blood out. I'm not a chicken.
I'm a pig and you're a cow. Now, the whole class is in days
dying with laughter and she had to tell the class teacher, the
background, X so that she wouldn't just go and tell him
how is like an insult as well as it you can tell you're a cow.
Oh God, oh my gosh. That's so funny.
I just, I loved, I didn't even think about that.
But to you even through the story, I was like walking.
Yeah. Call me.
Yes, she's a cow, she's a couch. She got cash.
Drop on. She's wearing a cowboy dress
because it shall not. Wait a minute.
That's pretty love that are not. It's so nice.
It's on listening to our podcast and and also the fact they said
it's nice to hear the positive and negative.
Because we do worry sometimes because we do like to most.
Everyone loves moaning, right? We love moaning is great but we
do also think very highly of the profession as well.
So, it's glad I'm glad someone picked up on that.
I've got a, I've got another one from her because she sent to,
and I said, I'd say them both because they did really make me
laugh. Yeah, sweet.
So this one, this one's more. This one's more embarrassing for
the teacher. We have about 80 really exact.
I can imagine doing this so my other placement story there.
Sorry my other story in the placement school is they have
this A system of behavior. Basically of give me five.
So when you say give me five to the children, they know they
have to stop talking. Listen, put down whatever is in
their hands, put the hands in the air, you know, five
different. The show me.
Show me three good things that kind of thing, just to get their
attention. Basically.
Yeah. And so, the saying they're
saying, the school is give me five.
Now, I had a lesson that went really well and my mentor
quickly just was giving me feedback via the sheet as the
children were tidying up at the end of the lesson, gave me a few
points from it and the children was getting ready for Next
lesson, basically, for English whilst my class teacher is
talking to me and given me my positive feedback.
She says, give me five and puts a hand up.
So I high-five her, we both look at each other.
Like, what the hell is just happened?
Because she was just saying it to give feedback about the, give
me 50, the kids, the kids start with a day.
Or look, I was really confused with two adults at the front,
just giving five. I ended up hiding in the supply
cupboard for 10 minutes. Pretending to read my feedback.
Try not to laugh or cry with embarrassment.
It's like you and it's time for me to buy.
Oh, that's so awkward. I had a feeling.
It was gonna be something like that.
I was like, give me five. That's that's really ambiguous.
Yeah, the content. Yeah.
I think it was really good. How, you know, you said, give me
50 smack awkward. And we thought that before every
time Times a day early in your career and especially when
you're training and in the school you don't quite know.
I spent so much of my time just pretending to do something
because sometimes you just sit around like, oh and I just, I
just really my, I'm reading my feedback 54 times in a row about
my Pace needs to improve. Yes, my Pace some yes.
Pretend to think about it. And yeah.
So hilariously, let's give it up for.
Give me five things. Like a very similar thing
happened in my class today between two children, I can't
stop giggling for a few minutes afterwards because it was just
funny and it was just a simple Or as this we just played times
they will shoot out right? And the person that went in my
class are obsessed. As you know, with this game like
they all they want to do is play these games.
I have to let them occasionally by occasion.
I mean, every day all day. No and neither to the child
walked back to her place. And one of the other kids are
really nice, just when are well done and put his hand up to like
give to give a high-five to this kid and they just didn't see.
And I was watching from the, you know, I had the perfect
spectator position. I was watching I'll see again
normally The if you, if you go to your high five, to someone,
they don't do it within like two seconds, firstly, you're
horribly embarrassed and secondly, you give up like, you
do. There's nothing worse than
lingering and this kid bless him. 10 seconds went past and he
was like all, like, moving around as well, trying to get
the attention still. Like if I did leave this, but
and they just didn't notice. They were, like, not in the
zone. I had to intervene because it
was so awkward. As I do.
Oh, look around. You gonna made the person notice
as, oh, that's nice, isn't it? But like cringing inside a, how
long you waited? And he was like, yeah, I know, I
saw him. I don't want to.
Yeah, I don't want a child only 95.
So, yeah, I just thought as well, two things from that.
Those stories really made me crack up.
I read them in school from the enough before meeting, I was in
between the end of school and meeting and I just sort of pop
up. I was just laughing at myself,
but also, just half the time when I asked for stories, we get
a couple, but the best stories of always come randomly, and it
was really nice to hear from that listener that she likes the
podcast. So guys, if you do this, we know
you're out there we do, Ulysses are out there.
I'm the same. When I listen to podcasts, I
just listened to them. I'm a huge fan.
I don't normally get in touch, but now I do my own podcast.
I understand how much it means to them when people get in touch
and especially as we've kind of like still, like I'm nicely
tight, tight knit community of listeners.
It's we love reading your stories.
So even if you just want to get in, touch to say hi stroke.
Our ego a little bit. Make us feel good about
ourselves. You know, just do it guys.
Just do it and if you've got an amazing stories, please do send
them. I'm because I know Hayden.
I still have loads to tell my still going to spread them.
I can probably go for 100 episodes of stories but we want
your ones as well. So yeah, thanks for getting in
touch. That was really cool.
Guys, thanks for making it this long.
We actually started off Hayden said before this very episode.
Let's make it a short one. We can't we just can't do it
anymore. We just get too far into it but
another great discussion absolutely love that.
And would you know we've done guys I'm going to tell you now
because we always have these loads of ideas for podcast.
We've sat down and we've mapped out the next 12.
So we are here for the Long Haul.
We are going to make it happen. We're 12.
Also done. We've also measured someone
about coming up to the podcast with the very first time.
Yeah. Heard nothing.
Back from them - yeah, that's good.
Well, we've got a few others in the pipeline owe me.
So I haven't had any do. So it is if we got no guests,
ignore this but just just hopefully didn't listen to this
podcast, right guys? Let's wrap it up.
So I've had enough guys to know
what? Hayden.
Yeah, listeners. Yeah customers.
Yeah. See that.
Bye.