1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,440 Hello everybody, welcome to this episode of the Disc Golf Answer 2 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:04,520 Man. I'm Bobby Cool Daddy, Slick 3 00:00:04,520 --> 00:00:09,080 Breeze, and this is a disc golf interview episode with Anthony 4 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:12,640 Badanza, otherwise known as Badanza Disc Golf. 5 00:00:13,040 --> 00:00:15,920 We get into a really great conversation about how we got 6 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:19,040 started in YouTube, how we got started doing disc golf content, 7 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:23,040 What are his goals for disc golf content and what is are his 8 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:26,600 goals for the professional side, the competitive side at disc 9 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:28,800 golf. So let's jump right into it. 10 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:36,120 All right, Anthony, how are you doing today? 11 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:38,240 Pretty good. How are you? 12 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:42,000 I'm doing, I'm doing fantastic. I appreciate you offline. 13 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:44,400 Right before we started talking, you tell me how you're busy, how 14 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:46,480 busy your life is going. So I appreciate you taking the 15 00:00:46,480 --> 00:00:49,840 time to be able to hop on the show and allow me to get to know 16 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:52,120 you a little bit better, allow our audience to get to know you 17 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:53,840 even more. So I know they're all you're 18 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:56,120 familiar with you. When I told people I was 19 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:58,960 interviewing you for the show, everyone was like, oh, awesome. 20 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:00,280 I, I can't wait to learn more about him. 21 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:02,920 I love his stuff. So I'm sure everybody, everybody 22 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:05,200 knows about you and I love watching your journey, what's 23 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:07,080 going on. So I did a little bit of 24 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:09,800 research on you as far as your disc golf, that you've got 2 25 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:13,600 disc golf YouTube channels and then you've got another YouTube 26 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:15,640 channel where it's just Anthony Vadanza where it's been a few 27 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:17,760 years since you've done things on there. 28 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:19,520 So. Tell me a little bit. 29 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:22,560 When you first started creating videos, what, what pulled you 30 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:26,160 into, well, actually what pulled you into actually creating 31 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:28,280 videos and getting on YouTube in the first place? 32 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:32,480 Yeah, I think honestly, it's kind of one of the things where 33 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:36,480 the passion followed like a different motivation. 34 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:40,800 So like I saw I was like seeing Youtubers when I was in middle 35 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:42,360 school and high school. I'm 27 now. 36 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:46,120 So this is like mid teens, like 20 teens. 37 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:48,000 And I was like, oh, that's a sweet lifestyle. 38 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:50,560 Like it was so much less of like, oh, I want to make videos. 39 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:52,000 Like I didn't grow up with a camcorder in hand. 40 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:55,400 I was always somewhat creative and more so like business minded 41 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:57,880 than creative always growing up. My dad owns his own stuff and 42 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:00,920 and so I was, I was like, that's a cool lifestyle. 43 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:02,680 I want to live like that. And so I started trying to make 44 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:04,960 videos and I think I had even before the ones you talked about 45 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:07,520 345 channels that I just started and stopped. 46 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:09,720 It kind of failed. And I've been doing stuff ever 47 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:13,640 since like late middle school. And then eventually when I 48 00:02:13,640 --> 00:02:16,760 realized, hey, I want to like make videos specifically more 49 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,320 about like personal finance stuff and like business, which 50 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:22,760 is what the Anthropia channel was and maybe eventually return 51 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:26,680 to who knows. But then I started wanting to 52 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:29,920 get better at making videos. So it was much more like I want 53 00:02:29,920 --> 00:02:32,880 to do this for an external motivation, which is like living 54 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:35,440 life kind of on my own terms, not having to like having a 55 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:37,000 little overhead. There's a lot of businesses that 56 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:39,440 I was like, I'd like to work for myself, but there's so many 57 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:41,600 things that had a lot of overhead or a lot of like 58 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:46,880 knowledge that was pre required. So something like YouTube, you 59 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:49,720 could just kind of get started and figure it out along the way. 60 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:53,440 And as I got better at making videos and saw a little bit of 61 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:55,680 success, it's one of those things where I really truly 62 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:57,000 believe, like follow your passion. 63 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:01,720 I think sometimes the passion comes after you try something 64 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:03,560 because the better you get it, something more passionate you 65 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:04,600 get. Like the better I got disc golf, 66 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:06,320 the more passionate I got, the better I got making videos, the 67 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:09,000 more passionate I got about it. So that's kind of where it came 68 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:10,720 from. It was wanting to live the 69 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:13,520 YouTube lifestyle, which at the highest level is not something 70 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:16,280 that I think I'll still ever attain, but it's allowed for a 71 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:20,120 lot of freedom in what I do. You think that's interesting you 72 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:22,240 bring up because when I've talked to some young people 73 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:24,680 before and I you know, I jokingly say, what do you want 74 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:28,520 to be when you grow up and they're like in their either 75 00:03:28,640 --> 00:03:32,120 teenage years or in their 20s and they say a couple of them 76 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:33,640 and said, I don't know, maybe be a YouTube. 77 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:37,360 So it's interesting to see that that's something that someone 78 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:40,280 can decide to do that be a plumber, be a doctor, be a 79 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:44,240 journeyman, be, you know, whatever and a Youtubers is part 80 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:47,440 of that option to go through. That's pretty cool. 81 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:50,040 What it what is kind of your what are you looking for 82 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:53,240 creatively? When you started creating 83 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:56,320 videos, what was what sort of creative direction did you want 84 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:56,840 to take? It's. 85 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:03,240 Kind of hard to answer because I, it's, I don't really think I 86 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:05,200 thought about it in terms of like, how do I want to 87 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:08,520 creatively express myself before, because I did like, I 88 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:10,440 never did anything high level, but I did like music. 89 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:12,960 So I've like played guitar for a while and like played piano for 90 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:14,360 a while. So like, and I like to sing And 91 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:17,200 so I would do like music things to more be creatively 92 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:19,240 expressive. It's kind of funny that you, 93 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:20,920 I've been asked that question because I hadn't really noticed 94 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:23,400 it until right now. But the more videos I make, the 95 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:26,600 less I've like done musically. I hopes that I haven't had a 96 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:28,680 piano when I lived in a van and we haven't bought 1 and when we 97 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:31,600 move, we're planning to, but I've just like I pick up my 98 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:34,240 guitar less than I did before because I just feel like I'm 99 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:35,560 getting more creatively fulfilled. 100 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:41,200 But long story, long way to say that I think what I always 101 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:43,560 thought about creatively was the authenticity. 102 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:46,800 I'd always, I never wanted to like try to have to act or 103 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:50,320 perform. I was wanted to just like hope 104 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:52,720 that I was charismatic enough for people liked me enough for I 105 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,920 was making stuff that was valuable enough with doing it 106 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:59,440 completely authentically. And so I think that's why I had 107 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:01,480 like so many things. I never really tried to chase 108 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:04,880 viral stuff. I would always, I guess one 109 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:07,080 thing and on my other channel I did like when the stimulus 110 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:09,640 checks were out, I would like read the legislation about it 111 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:11,320 and be like, this is what you could expect cuz there are so 112 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:12,840 many views that were happened through that. 113 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:16,280 But I was always kind of more creating content of the things 114 00:05:16,280 --> 00:05:19,600 that I did. And so I guess now what I could 115 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:23,600 say that is something I've thought about for a few years is 116 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:26,400 I want to like create a business, which YouTube to me is 117 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:28,120 a business. I run it like one, but I want to 118 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:30,680 create a business that like serves my lifestyle rather than 119 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:34,440 kind of the opposite way around. Like I don't want or, or a 120 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:36,040 business that allows me to live my lifestyle. 121 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:38,400 So instead of trying to just like make money, however, and 122 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:42,760 then have a life on the side, I kind of intermingle them both a 123 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:45,000 lot more than I think most people do. 124 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:48,600 And most people would maybe even want to because I'll just I 125 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:52,200 would like to work 506070 hours or so because most of the things 126 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:53,840 that I'm doing are things that I would want to be doing. 127 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:56,920 And I understand that like in order to, to do them, as much as 128 00:05:56,920 --> 00:05:59,760 I want to play disc golf, as much as I want to throw as many 129 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:02,360 new discs as I want to go and like travel as much as I want 130 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:05,480 to, there's going to like, it's not going to be as like pure of 131 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:07,960 any of those things as it could be if I just like had a bunch of 132 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:10,720 money and was able to do them. But the only way that I'm able 133 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:13,560 to do them is by creating content around it. 134 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:16,680 So I'm kind of trying to create content that fuels my lifestyle, 135 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:17,920 if that makes sense. And that's kind of where 136 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:21,240 creatively I land now. Yeah, I think maybe this is what 137 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:24,200 I'm hearing is that you don't want to just have a job so that 138 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:26,160 you can go do things you like doing. 139 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:29,200 You want to do the things you like doing and then get paid to 140 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:30,960 do them. Yeah. 141 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:35,000 And I think in some ways, and to some people, some people who 142 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:37,720 said this to me, but it kind of like adulterates it in a little 143 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:39,880 bit, like a little bit. It's like disc golf to me isn't 144 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:43,040 like this pure thing that I do for fun, trying to like play as 145 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:45,000 a high level is not like this pure thing that I'm just, I'm 146 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:49,120 just trying to train to do that. It's all kind of revolves around 147 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:51,680 each other creating content, trying to GoPro, trying to 148 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:55,760 review a bunch of discs. And so none of it's like as pure 149 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:58,680 as it could be, I guess. But I think it's, it's the only 150 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:00,640 way that I see for it to be possible for me. 151 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:02,880 And I'm such like a scatterbrained person who needs 152 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:04,800 to be doing so much that it's the only way that I could see 153 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:06,800 myself doing. If I, if I could only train for 154 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:09,040 disc golf, I think I go crazy because I need to be doing more 155 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:10,960 than just that. So I'd find something else to do 156 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:12,360 anyway. So might as well just put it all 157 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:16,200 together into one Amalgamation or abomination might be a better 158 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:19,160 word. Yeah, when you say it's not the, 159 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:20,920 the purity is kind of not the same. 160 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:22,040 What? What do you mean by that? 161 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:27,680 I guess, I guess like if someone like disc golf to me isn't just 162 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:29,640 a hobby, like there are a lot of things about disc golf that I 163 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:32,600 love, but there's some things that like I, I don't love about 164 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,080 what I do, but that's like every job, like every job, you don't 165 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:37,520 love it. So like it, it in some ways I 166 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:40,440 think it's, it's more if you let it like this, it can like really 167 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:41,760 detract from disc golf if you let it. 168 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:43,320 And I think I did for a lot of this year. 169 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,120 This was like a really hard year for me, both personally and 170 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:48,200 business wise. And because I commingled them, 171 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:49,800 it feels like one in the same to me. 172 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:54,640 It's all like fit together, but I, I feel like disc golf to me 173 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:57,920 hasn't been since I started my channel and I don't know if 174 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:00,000 it'll ever will be just like just this fun hobby that I go 175 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,040 and do. If I'm thinking about disc golf, 176 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:04,640 I'm thinking about content in the business of disc golf. 177 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:07,360 But to me that's enjoyable and what I like. 178 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:09,680 So in some senses, like I, I guess I'm trying to think from a 179 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:11,240 third party perspective, It's like less pure. 180 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:14,200 I'm not just like I never just like go and throw to have fun or 181 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:17,280 I do it very, very rarely. There's always like something 182 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:21,920 else that's going on as well, which is kind of the only way 183 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:24,840 that's allowed me to kind of do the things I've done in disc 184 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:26,520 golf, at least I think. And there might be another way 185 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:29,280 to have done it, but that's the the best path that I've saw that 186 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:32,080 I took. Yeah, I, I, I, I remember early 187 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:34,640 on in my disc golf career, as far as working for Dynamic 188 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,200 Discs, people would take, man, you got a dream job. 189 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:38,799 You're you're around disc golf all the time. 190 00:08:38,799 --> 00:08:40,080 You probably get to play all the time. 191 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:43,159 You're like, yeah, I could. But there's days where I get off 192 00:08:43,159 --> 00:08:44,920 work and I'm like, I don't want to talk disc golf. 193 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:47,320 I don't want to do disc golf. I've been doing disc golf all 194 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:51,240 day and it it took there were sometimes where I had to kind of 195 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:54,640 regain the love I had for the for the sport to actually go out 196 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:56,800 and throw. And even then when I go out and 197 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,960 play with my buddy, I have a buddy that we sometimes go on on 198 00:08:59,960 --> 00:09:00,920 Sunday. We just play. 199 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:03,520 I even my mind, I'm thinking, man, should I have a camera 200 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:06,840 behind me just in case I get an ace or just in case I get a 201 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:09,240 great throw with that the new treason or whatever. 202 00:09:09,560 --> 00:09:12,680 So I kind of get that where it's kind of always on your mind, the 203 00:09:12,680 --> 00:09:16,080 two mixing together of this is a job also, this is something I 204 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:19,320 enjoy doing. So on that, as far as you say 205 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:24,280 you're sharing your journey, you are documenting your growth in 206 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:26,840 real time as you try to as you move into, you know, 207 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:29,360 professional disc golfer. And I believe you did some 208 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:32,040 series or did some videos on trying to attain a certain 209 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:33,360 rating and things like that. How? 210 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:37,840 How did you get comfortable showing all the parts of your 211 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:46,840 journey? I don't think, I think I was 212 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:48,600 going to say I don't think I've ever felt uncomfortable with it, 213 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:51,040 but I think that would not be 100% true. 214 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:56,640 I think the cost benefit of it was always super positive to me. 215 00:09:56,680 --> 00:10:00,000 Like the cost of sharing it was always going to be there, but it 216 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,040 was so much less than the potential benefit because I saw 217 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:05,040 it more as like a competitive advantage of like, OK, I'm going 218 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:08,640 to be able to share everything that I'm doing my whole journey. 219 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:10,680 Some of it's going to resonate, some of it's not. 220 00:10:10,680 --> 00:10:13,720 There's been a lot of like things that I've shared because 221 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:15,360 I've committed to sharing so much of it that's been 222 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:16,920 embarrassing. Like this year, my thing, my 223 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:19,640 rating went down like 14 points and like, I'm pretty OK with it. 224 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:21,720 I'm like 978 rated. It's the lowest 7 rated, I think 225 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:24,320 in like 2 plus years. And like I'm OK with it because 226 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:26,760 I understand what it is. But I also know that like a 227 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:29,200 potential cost of sharing stuff is like someone could just look 228 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:30,560 at that and be like, hold he fell off. 229 00:10:30,560 --> 00:10:32,200 And it's like, yeah, kind of in disc golf. 230 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:34,960 I definitely did. And like, I know I, I have an 231 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:37,600 idea of where I can go from here, but I think that cost 232 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:41,720 always was outweighed by the benefit of sharing of not like 233 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:46,280 hiding stuff behind a paywall or, or, or not even a paywall, 234 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:49,960 but just like a, an emotional wall of like not being willing 235 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:51,360 to share everything. And sometimes that veered into 236 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:52,920 sharing too much. And so I'm figuring out what 237 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:55,400 that balance looks like as I continue to evolve and get 238 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:58,960 better as a, as a creator and just as, and just personally. 239 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:03,880 But to me it's, it was the comfort wasn't fully there, but 240 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:05,840 I always knew it was worth it because there wasn't anybody who 241 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:07,440 was sharing that. Like when I came into like 242 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:10,000 creating disc golf content there, there wasn't like the MA 243 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:14,520 one trying to go MPO person who is making content or And so I 244 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:16,720 was like, OK, well, this is like a niche that I can fill. 245 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:18,760 And I saw that niche being there. 246 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:20,120 And it's a very aspirational thing. 247 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:22,800 I think it's easier to aspire to be a high level MA one or a 248 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:24,720 local pro than it is to be on the pro tour. 249 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:28,280 And so to kind of share that whole journey in the hope that 250 00:11:28,560 --> 00:11:31,680 and, and a part of it too, I guess it was also the hope that 251 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:33,240 one day maybe something does happen. 252 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:37,120 Maybe I do get a tour card eventually, or I do cash on on a 253 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:40,480 full Elite series event. And then I have all the way back 254 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:43,080 from my earliest videos. People are like, Oh my gosh, 255 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:44,920 like this is crazy. I still get comments all the 256 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:46,480 times like, Oh my gosh, your form has changed so much because 257 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:48,960 someone clicks on a video from 2 1/2 years ago or 1 1/2 years 258 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:50,200 ago. And it's like, yeah, I know it's 259 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:51,960 kind of crazy. And I'm hoping that someone can 260 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:54,480 say that about the videos that I'm making now, not only about 261 00:11:54,560 --> 00:11:57,960 my form, but about how I approach this golf and just 262 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:00,840 continuing to, to get better and pursuing that. 263 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:04,200 And I always knew that I, I just, I guess I just thought 264 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:06,920 that authenticity and being vulnerable with those things 265 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:14,880 would have a, a better return for not only myself, but also 266 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:18,400 people watching because it's more real and honest than just 267 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:20,680 trying to hide it and like, pretend like I'm something that 268 00:12:20,680 --> 00:12:22,560 I'm not. And I also am not that good of 269 00:12:22,560 --> 00:12:23,800 an actor. So I couldn't really pretend 270 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:26,360 that like I was that I wasn't. And I figured if I'm going to 271 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:28,320 turn the camera on so much, I'm going to share it all. 272 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:30,760 So. Yeah, no, I love the the 273 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:33,000 authenticity and the authenticity and the 274 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:35,120 transparency. It's something that we've always 275 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:37,040 tried to do at Dynamic Disk when I was here. 276 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:40,040 And now that I'm back here. And especially it's relevant 277 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:44,120 nowadays with the advent of AI where we're getting, you know, 278 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:48,440 fed just super polished looking videos, even though you can tell 279 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:50,000 they're AI, but they're just going to get better. 280 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:54,600 But I believe people are going to crave the more authentic 281 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:57,320 stuff as we continue to get the AI slop. 282 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:00,440 And that's not to say that AI is not going to be part of what we 283 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:02,960 do, but the, the slop we're getting, people are going to get 284 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:05,040 tired of it. So I think I said kudos to you 285 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,320 for, for showing the transparency. 286 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:11,520 And I think that is something that like you, you want to share 287 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:14,120 your journey because you want people to relate, but then also 288 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:15,800 you kind of open yourself up for scrutiny. 289 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:19,080 So I said, I say keep doing it. So I, I enjoy it myself. 290 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:22,840 But OK, so let's kind of talk real, real quick more about 291 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:27,560 content creation. When you plan your videos, not 292 00:13:27,560 --> 00:13:30,440 necessarily the disk reviews, but some of the other other type 293 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:34,040 videos, what usually sparks an idea? 294 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:37,040 Is there like a moment on the course or you just see something 295 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:38,440 and you think, oh, this is a great idea. 296 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:41,200 And then how do you what, what qualifies it as OK? 297 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,120 I'm going to invest time into making this an actual video. 298 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:49,680 That's a good question. That's something that I am that 299 00:13:49,680 --> 00:13:51,880 I've especially over the last couple months been investing a 300 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:56,640 lot more time and even money into like YouTube based coaching 301 00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:58,960 from the creators and other spaces that are not disc golf 302 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:02,720 that is is helping to like change how I view these things. 303 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:07,200 I think the idea is the way that I would have decided before is 304 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:08,720 not what I'm going to say now, because I think the way that I 305 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:11,880 would have decided before is not always been the best and it's 306 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:14,240 caused a decent amount of stagnation for the last year and 307 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:16,320 a half. But I think this even ties into 308 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:18,760 the, the vulnerability and like the authenticity. 309 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:22,560 I think that it's super important to know exactly who 310 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:24,600 I'm making a video for. It's actually the reason why you 311 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:26,480 said like not, not your disk reviews and your other stuff, 312 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:28,320 but your stuff. And I'm actually in the new 313 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:29,720 year. I know this podcast is coming 314 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:31,440 out pretty soon, so I won't fully divulge anything. 315 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:33,760 But in, in, in the new year, there's a change that I'm 316 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:35,480 already like starting to implement that I'll like 317 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:39,960 finalize and announce that will be, I think pretty beneficial to 318 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:43,400 my channels, as you said, and also to my audiences. 319 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:45,400 There's not going to be a little less confusion because I think 320 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:48,160 what it would be for the longest time was I would just make the 321 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:51,200 videos that like I have an idea and I'm interested in I make the 322 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:54,400 video that I wanted to make. And a part of that is because I 323 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:55,560 would make the video that I want to see. 324 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:58,640 But what the more that I'm realizing is like I'm not my 325 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:01,960 audience, like I and I think that's probably to their benefit 326 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:04,840 that they're not all like me, but I'm not my audience. 327 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:07,120 So I shouldn't be making the only the videos that I want to 328 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:09,640 make because there's some things that I think I get like super 329 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:11,320 deep and niche on and I'm super nerdy about. 330 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:12,560 And so I'll be like, Oh, let's make this. 331 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:16,400 And it's just like no one cares. So I think having the filter of 332 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:20,960 like who is not only like the type of person and like disc 333 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:23,280 golfer is not a person that you're making a video for. 334 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:26,280 Because if you even think about the people that you'd see it at 335 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:29,160 your local piston putt over the course of a day or a week, it's 336 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:31,680 so varied what a disc golfer is. So if you try to make a video 337 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:33,440 for a disc golfer, you're actually going to catch nobody. 338 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:35,000 And I feel like that's what I was trying to do for a while. 339 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:36,160 I was trying to make videos for myself. 340 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:40,800 And so now if I have an idea, I, I have no shortage of audiation. 341 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:42,680 That's kind of easier for me. What's better? 342 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:45,160 What's more important for me is figuring out how that idea 343 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:48,440 serves someone that I want to make the video for. 344 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:51,440 So who's my audience in my audience on the dance at disc 345 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:53,680 golf is someone who's like disc curious. 346 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:55,720 So I would used to make like whatever I wanted to do, which 347 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:57,960 I'm kind of a disc nerd. So like I would I love reviewing 348 00:15:57,960 --> 00:15:59,800 discs. I love talking about like the 349 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:02,040 shoulder of the disc is different than the Dome and how 350 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:04,280 the the wing and the height and how all that affects stuff. 351 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:06,320 And most people don't care. So I'd like people would click 352 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:08,160 through and just watch you throw the disc and have fun with your 353 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:09,400 buddies. And what I realized is like 354 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:12,040 that's a lot of disc golf and the majority of disc golf. 355 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:14,040 And it's two different people, like someone who's a really 356 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:16,800 nerdy about this and someone who just like maybe he doesn't even 357 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:18,320 play disc golf but is curious about it. 358 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:21,400 They like sports, they like seeing cool things done and they 359 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:24,480 like banter from friends. And so like the person who's 360 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:26,160 who's that person? It's a different video that I 361 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:27,360 would make even about the same thing. 362 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:30,840 If I'm so for instance, like I just put out a video, I'm going 363 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:33,280 to be putting out a video today after I'm done with this with 364 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:36,760 the Luna Battle packs. And I was, I was thinking, OK, 365 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:38,760 like we got to talk about the rings and all this stuff. 366 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:41,320 And I realized the person I'm making this video for just wants 367 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:43,960 to see me go and battle a buddy who's really obsessed with 368 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:45,400 Lunas. And so you can come out on top 369 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:47,440 and there's a ton of banter. And so I didn't focus on like, 370 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:49,160 these are the flight numbers and this is what the rings do. 371 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:50,440 And it's like they're two different discs. 372 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:52,400 So we talked about the fact that they're different discs, but we 373 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:55,000 don't need to get into the weeds of like, OK, what's the science 374 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:56,040 behind why this could be different? 375 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:59,280 Because the vast majority of the audience that I'm going for 376 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:01,600 there doesn't care. And so I think figuring out 377 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,880 exactly who the person that I'm making the video for is and then 378 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:08,200 running every single piece of packaging for the video. 379 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:10,280 So the title and thumbnail so that it relates to something 380 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:11,280 that they would be interested in. 381 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:13,040 And then delivering on the promise, the title and 382 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:16,160 thumbnail. And then also continuing to keep 383 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:19,200 them entertained and engaged with what they want to see is 384 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:22,040 how I kind of run through kind of my ideation filter. 385 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:23,520 So I have a lot of ideas all the time. 386 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:25,680 And more and more recently I've been thrown out more and more 387 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:28,520 ideas because I'm like, this is I care about this, but like, I 388 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:30,040 don't know how to put this in a way that other people would 389 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:31,080 care. So I'm not going to make it. 390 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,040 And I think it's, it's good to start out by making stuff that 391 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:35,800 you're interested in because you need a lot of reps, You need to 392 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:37,160 figure out exactly what you need to make. 393 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:41,720 But if you can kind of point those reps in a direction that's 394 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:45,240 a little more succinct and a little more clear, I think you'd 395 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:47,520 likely do better. If you know exactly like, OK, 396 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:50,840 this is the idea that I have. It came up to me, however. 397 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:52,880 And if you need to find ideas, there's plenty of ways to find 398 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:55,000 ideas, But it's easier to find ideas if you know exactly who 399 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:56,600 you're making videos for, because then you go and look at 400 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:58,640 stuff that they're interested in and then you make videos that 401 00:17:58,640 --> 00:17:59,840 are that they would be interested in. 402 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:01,760 And so if you're creating content, I think figure out 403 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:04,480 exactly who you're making it for and then making sure that every 404 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:07,880 part of their experience with your brand on whatever channel 405 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:11,080 it is, whether it's Instagram, TikTok, or YouTube, it's 406 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:12,720 something that they're interested in so that the title 407 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:14,800 and thumbnail match something that they're intrigued by. 408 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:17,160 And then you deliver on that and the content and the content 409 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:19,560 itself doesn't like bore them because it's, you're talking 410 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:20,920 about something that you're interested in, which is 411 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:23,720 something that I do all the time as someone who like, likes to be 412 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:26,240 authentic and talk a lot. And I realize like authenticity 413 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,000 and vulnerability. Going back to that conversation 414 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:32,320 is not sharing everything. It's, it's sharing the things 415 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:34,520 that make sense for the audience to care about. 416 00:18:35,360 --> 00:18:39,040 And that doesn't mean that like, because inherently, like I'm 417 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:41,480 only showing my disc golf self, like I don't share a lot about 418 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:43,880 my family, not because I don't care or like, not because it's 419 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:45,520 not important, but because like the people who are watching my 420 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:48,040 disc golf videos, they might care because they care about me, 421 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:50,520 but they care about me playing disc golf and my family doesn't 422 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:51,920 play disc golf with me. So like, I'm not going to, 423 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:53,360 that's not an important part of that. 424 00:18:53,360 --> 00:18:55,680 There might be stories where that that does happen, but you 425 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:57,960 don't need to share all of yourself to be authentic. 426 00:18:58,120 --> 00:19:01,080 It's just I think more about not hiding the things that do relate 427 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,080 to the, to the audience that you're trying to, to capture and 428 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:07,520 figuring out first who that audience is and that, and that's 429 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:10,920 kind of the framework that I'm leading myself down and still 430 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:14,240 have a long way to go because I do think I would think about 431 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:15,800 this lot recently. I think disc golf content 432 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:19,520 creation, myself included, is pretty easy to get stagnant 433 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:23,600 because you're just making content for disc golf and that's 434 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:26,680 just too broad. But in some ways it's too broad. 435 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:28,280 In some ways it's too niche because if you're making stuff 436 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:30,560 for disc golf, you're going to speak the language too much. 437 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:32,400 Like you're going to talk about flight numbers and Heiser and 438 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:34,120 Anheuser. And like if my wife watches 439 00:19:34,120 --> 00:19:36,000 those videos with me, I've been having her watch my videos with 440 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:38,760 me and like critiquing my intros and outros and like some key 441 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:40,560 points to be like, I don't care about this. 442 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:41,880 Like, I don't know what this means. 443 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:44,240 Like I live with you. You've been doing disc golf full 444 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:45,640 time for three years. Like, I don't know what this 445 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:46,840 means. And so it's like, OK, well, 446 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:49,200 that's not going to go in the in the in the video for the person 447 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:50,880 who's just curious because the person who just likes playing 448 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:52,920 disc golf with their buddies at the local pitch and Putt also 449 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:55,720 doesn't care about flight numbers and Heiser and Anheuser 450 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:58,200 in the same way. So how do you talk about it in a 451 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:00,760 way that is understandable to them so that when those words do 452 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:03,840 get brought up, they have a translatable like language or 453 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:05,400 image to bring to it? So that's what I'm trying to 454 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,040 figure out. And a long roundabout way to say 455 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:10,360 that I think the ideas need to flow through who you're making 456 00:20:10,360 --> 00:20:12,320 the videos for. And ideas can come from 457 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:14,120 anywhere, but if you need to find them, I think it's still 458 00:20:14,120 --> 00:20:15,960 best to figure out who you're making the videos for first. 459 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:18,720 And if you don't even want to get to that level, just make 460 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:20,360 videos that you would want to watch because there aren't 461 00:20:20,360 --> 00:20:23,640 enough people who are like you. And I got pretty far and then 462 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:26,200 stagnated at a point of making videos that I would want to 463 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:28,120 watch. And so I, I don't think it's a 464 00:20:28,120 --> 00:20:32,880 bad thing, but I think where I'm at is trying to evolve to that 465 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:35,600 next point where it's not about me, it's about my audience 466 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:37,520 fully. And I think that if you can 467 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:40,760 start there, you can go much faster and further than I have 468 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:42,760 in the time that I have. So that's those are just my 469 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:45,560 general thoughts. Wow, you talked touched on a lot 470 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:47,240 of things that I want to dive into. 471 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:51,040 No, that's no, I no, yeah, from your videos, you can tell you 472 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:52,800 like to talk So but that's good. That's good. 473 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,000 You need to be able to talk on on video for sure. 474 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:58,640 But no, something I want to touch base on to get your 475 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:03,560 thoughts on is you talked about the disc golf audience or or for 476 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:07,840 technically the disc golf demographic, right where it's 477 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:10,080 always been a thing. And I think Seth was on, I don't 478 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:12,680 remember what podcast he was on, but he. 479 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:18,120 Had mentioned that, you know, people don't understand that the 480 00:21:18,120 --> 00:21:22,600 die hard disc golfer, the guy that like knows all the flight 481 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:26,520 plates, everything but parting line and the he follows the disc 482 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:31,080 golf pro tour every event that represents a small portion of 483 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:33,600 what's happening out there as far as disc golf. 484 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:37,000 They don't realize that the casual guy, the guy that doesn't 485 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,040 even the buddy I play with, he doesn't, he don't, he doesn't 486 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:42,600 care who's playing the next disc golf pro tour. 487 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,040 He doesn't care where the next stop is he, but he has a full 488 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:47,040 bag. He's got a cart, a full bag of 489 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:49,720 discs. He's got, you know, dirt bags. 490 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:52,120 He's got a retriever. He's got it all right. 491 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:55,560 He's buying new discs and and things like that. 492 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,280 So, but he could care less about and that's not to disparage the 493 00:21:58,280 --> 00:21:59,720 disc golf pro tour. I think they're doing great 494 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:01,360 things. I think that's an important 495 00:22:01,360 --> 00:22:05,240 component of our sport. But what are your thoughts on 496 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:09,560 that as far as like the the people coming off and saying we 497 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:13,120 got it, we got to invest the disc golf pro tour where it 498 00:22:13,120 --> 00:22:15,760 sounds like you're going for more the audience of like, like 499 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:18,080 you said, disc curious. In other words, I just happened 500 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:22,320 to someone gave me a disc. I saw a basket at a local park. 501 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:24,480 Maybe I'll try this disc golf thing out. 502 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:26,360 It sounds like that's who you kind of want to talk to. 503 00:22:26,360 --> 00:22:29,600 So what would you say to the people that say that that's not 504 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:31,440 the important people we need to reach out to? 505 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:39,720 I think neither. I think both of them just have 506 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:42,640 different focuses. I don't think there's like a 507 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,600 right and wrong and I think so much of it depends on what the 508 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:49,520 goal is. If the goal is to grow disc golf 509 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,160 as a professional sport, then investing in the pro tour makes 510 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:55,680 a lot of sense. If the goal is to grow the disc 511 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:59,080 golf playing base, then the pro tour is much less important for 512 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,640 that goal. So I think figuring out like 513 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,280 what the goal is and I think having, I think it's, it's 514 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:06,800 always, it's almost always better to, especially in a 515 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:09,480 smaller sport where it's easy for like there to be a lot of 516 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,040 cohesion because everyone wants to like be buddy, buddy, which 517 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,080 is a good thing. And like collaborate in a lot of 518 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:15,040 ways. Those are all good things. 519 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:18,040 But I think having disparate ideas where there are going to 520 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:22,040 be people in high levels in the sport who have resources and 521 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:24,160 connections and know how, who are really focused on the 522 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:26,400 professional side. And there are also people who 523 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,960 are like, they're not quite butting heads, but there's, 524 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:31,400 there's like a spirited like debate of like, no, this is 525 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:32,480 important. No, this is important. 526 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,280 Both of those things, if there's a spirited debate and like 527 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,800 they're trying to figure it out, will grow because a rising tide, 528 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:40,480 disc golf as a whole will lift all shapes. 529 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,080 And so getting more people in the player base will get more 530 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:44,240 people interested in the Pro Tour. 531 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:46,160 Getting more people interested in the Pro tour can reach out to 532 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:48,080 people who are interested in professional sports and maybe 533 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:51,040 get them into playing disc golf because ultimately someone 534 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:52,840 doesn't need to play disc golf to watch the Pro tour. 535 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:54,960 There are plenty of people in other sports where that's the 536 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,040 case. And so I think they're 537 00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:00,520 ultimately just kind of two different avenues that people 538 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:02,800 can go down. But overall, one of the thoughts 539 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:06,040 I've had a lot about this golf is I think this golf as a whole, 540 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,960 I'm very complicit in this. I think creators, companies, 541 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:11,960 everything. I think this golf as a whole has 542 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:15,840 been so inwardly focused for a while where there's a pie and 543 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,600 everyone's trying to eat a little bit more of the pie and 544 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:20,040 figure out how to enable a little bit more on the pie 545 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:24,160 that's already here versus trying to take their same slice 546 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:26,280 and just grow the whole pie. Because especially if the pie 547 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,200 grows like your every little bit, it's like more ex. 548 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,000 It's like exponential or geometric growth. 549 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,880 I'm not that big of a math nerd to fully know that in terms of a 550 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:36,320 pie chart. But if the whole pie expands 551 00:24:37,120 --> 00:24:40,760 every little bit that expands your portion of it expands more 552 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:44,560 because there's a larger volume as that arc gets wider and wider 553 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:47,720 and wider as the pie grows. And I think what I'm wanting to 554 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:52,040 do is try to, to focus at least one of my channels on that kind 555 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:55,240 of much wider, like let's try to grow the pie a little bit, even 556 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,240 if it's just and, and, and it's the type of thing where it's 557 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,640 like, if I do grow the pie a little bit by getting a couple 558 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:02,800 more people interested in disc golf, that might not translate 559 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:04,400 to the pro Tour. Like it's not, it's not going to 560 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:06,320 be 1 for one. I don't think it's going to be, 561 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:08,280 I think it'll be some sort of direct correlation. 562 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,200 Like if 1000 new people are interested in disc golf, maybe 563 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:12,520 10 of them are interested in the Pro Tour. 564 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:14,360 And at that point it's a conversion thing for the Pro 565 00:25:14,360 --> 00:25:15,960 Tour. And so that's where both of them 566 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,000 work together is if people are focused on growing the grass 567 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,480 roots, then if someone gets into disc golf, then they realize, 568 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:21,800 oh, there's a professional side of this. 569 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,080 Then the pro tours out when people trying to grow that are 570 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,680 trying to capture those people who now have interest to make 571 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:29,200 them fans. And so it's both sides of the 572 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,040 pendulum, People who are interested in, oh, wow, this is 573 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:32,320 a professional sport, this is cool. 574 00:25:33,120 --> 00:25:34,560 Oh, maybe I want to actually try to play. 575 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,280 Where can I buy the discs? And so it's, I think it's both 576 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:39,280 of them. And I think having people on 577 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:42,480 different sides of the issue who are not just talking about it, 578 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,080 but actively working towards it, but also talking about it, I 579 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:49,360 think having that combination can can help burgeon the growth 580 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,160 a decent bit better. But I think focusing less on 581 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:57,200 everyone is already in disc golf and more on staying like top of 582 00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,520 funnel is how I think about it. Like you want to say like, I 583 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:01,080 want to make most of my content top of funnel. 584 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,560 I don't want to niche down into like, OK, This is why I throw 585 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:05,600 anheuser versus heiser versus whatever. 586 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,840 I can do that in the content. But I think in the in the 587 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,320 packaging, which like the title and thumbnail is the marketing 588 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:13,880 for people watching my videos in my marketing pieces. 589 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:15,280 I don't want to get too deep into it. 590 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,520 I want people who might just be curious to get into it and then 591 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,120 be like, well, I didn't know all this was impossible with the 592 00:26:21,120 --> 00:26:23,600 disc at the end of the video or like, oh, this is cool, but I 593 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:24,520 don't care. So I'm going to leave. 594 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:26,400 But maybe they're interested enough to watch something and 595 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,320 then it pops up again and again. So I don't know what that's 596 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:31,320 going to look like, but that's what I'm going to be focusing on 597 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:33,720 a lot moving forward on Bonanza. Disc golf is trying to stay 598 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:37,240 pretty top of funnel and if people get interested or not, 599 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,080 great. But I want to try to focus on 600 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,360 growing the pie rather than just trying to cannibalize a little 601 00:26:42,360 --> 00:26:46,240 bit more of it, which I think has been, which makes sense in a 602 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,560 contraction like disc golf. There's been a contraction in 603 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:49,720 the growth. I don't think there's a 604 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,440 contraction overall, but like there's been like there's been a 605 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:55,880 contraction in growth. Growth has definitely slowed and 606 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:57,280 there probably has been a little bit smaller. 607 00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,680 And so it's easier at that point to look inside because you can 608 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:05,600 you can put out fires and you can manage losses much easier 609 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:07,360 than trying to still pursue growth. 610 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,640 But I think where disc golf is going to grow again is by going 611 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,480 back to pursuing growth, even when growth doesn't come easily, 612 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,320 because growth came easily in the pandemic. 613 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:17,760 Like it was something that it just kind of grew, not because 614 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,800 people in disc golf did anything particularly special, but 615 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:22,160 because of the circumstances of the world. 616 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,040 And that's something that we capitalize on and that's great. 617 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:27,000 But I think it's going to be harder and slower growth, but I 618 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,280 think it's still possible to have that growth if we focus on 619 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:31,560 really expanding the pie rather than just looking internal. 620 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:33,960 It's not bad for companies to have competition internal of 621 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,560 disc golf, but I think the focus has been 8020 internal and it 622 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:39,560 needs to be 8020 external is kind of my thought. 623 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:44,520 So to that point, I, I think that was a great answer because 624 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:46,920 yeah, it's it's, it's really where your focus is. 625 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,800 But but to your point, as far as disc golf, do you think we've 626 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,680 hit the low, the low point because it is kind of like, you 627 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:57,920 know, we were growing, growing COVID boom and then we're slowly 628 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,320 going down. And it's like, are we have we 629 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,280 hit the bottom yet in a sense that not hit the bottom where 630 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,960 we're dead, but hit the bottom where now we can start slowly 631 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:10,000 back the growth and not compare it to the pandemic. 632 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,600 That's hard to say. I think there's, I think like 633 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,400 the market of disc golf, the market overall, like there's 634 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,280 just too many factors that, you know, contribute to it to say 635 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:24,280 like, and I'm also like, not Nostradamus. 636 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:26,520 Like these are opinions that I'm having that I'm going to like 637 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,800 actively work towards and try to pivot quickly if I'm wrong, 638 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,240 because I'm very, I could all everything I said in this whole 639 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:33,480 call could be wrong and that's fine. 640 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,800 Like I want to, I want to try and I'd rather be like moving 641 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:38,920 because you can move a ball much more than you can. 642 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:40,640 Like if there's no inertia, you can't really move it. 643 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,000 But if you're moving down the path, you can always spot it one 644 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,400 way or the other. I would hope, I would hope that 645 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:51,360 that people can kind of reorient and companies and and disc 646 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:53,720 golfers and pros can reorient their expectations. 647 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:58,120 But it's kind of hard when there's still such a recent 648 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,600 recency of big contracts, big money. 649 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:02,760 Like all this stuff happening. It's easy to look back on like 650 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:04,720 this is what things were. Let's try to get back there. 651 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:09,200 But getting back there involves a Black Swan event essentially. 652 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:11,960 Like it's something that is super unlikely to happen again. 653 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,520 And So what is not getting back there, but getting there again 654 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,000 look like, like instead of looking backwards and seeing 655 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,640 what did we do that made that happen where it probably was 656 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:24,200 more external forces that created like the opportunities. 657 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:29,280 How can we move forward in a way that is going to help us grow? 658 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,440 And maybe not the same rate, but I think it just what one of 659 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:34,760 things it's been, it's been for me is figuring out how to, as 660 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,560 things have changed and adjusted and I became a dad and had to 661 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,600 like really drastically lower how much I was able to work as I 662 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:42,040 watched my daughter a lot during the week. 663 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:45,200 It was really hard for me for a long time. 664 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,200 And and then I just kind of tried to reorient my 665 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:49,840 expectations a little bit. I was like, well, this is what 666 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:51,760 it is now. Like I can keep trying to go 667 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,560 back to what it was and just try to fit this new thing in. 668 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:56,960 But like, this is just the reality now. 669 00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:00,240 And so how do we move forward? And I think it's less of did we 670 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,480 hit the bottom and more of are companies willing and are like, 671 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:05,920 is disc golf as a whole and companies and pros and like 672 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,520 everything, are we all willing to just like be like, OK, well, 673 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:11,280 this is the new baseline. Instead of like we got to get, 674 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,120 we got to get back there. Because I think that that type 675 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:19,800 of desperation, which I've had with like views before and like 676 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,680 you start to do stupider things. Like if my views are going down, 677 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,200 you just start to be a little Dumber where it's like, oh, 678 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,000 well, what's this? What's this new trendy thing 679 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:27,960 that I can do just to get back there? 680 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:29,480 Because you're focused on getting back there versus like, 681 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:30,640 well, this is kind of where I'm at. 682 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,320 So how do we move forward? I think it's an acceptance of 683 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,560 where things are that will allow disc golf as a whole to move 684 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,720 forward. And I think a part of that 685 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:43,440 acceptance is people who are like actively doing things in 686 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,600 order to like help themselves and help this golf as a whole. 687 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,200 There's just like some noise that you need to not listen to. 688 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,000 That's what I've realized a lot is like a lot of like the people 689 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,960 are like, oh, I thought he fell off or like I thought like I was 690 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,720 like, Oh, you got so much versus like those things can be true 691 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,040 and like that's OK. And like I, it's easy to get 692 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,080 emotional about them because you want to feel defensive, But I've 693 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,320 always done best when I don't get defensive by those things. 694 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,080 And just like it's really hard for me. 695 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:11,840 I'm, I'm very easily like easy to get defensive about it. 696 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,600 But when I don't allow myself to and I'm just like, OK, I'm not 697 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:16,120 going to worry about that. I'm just going to keep working 698 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,240 and moving forward. And like, this is where things 699 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,000 are now And let's like see how we can make it better. 700 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:24,840 That's I think that's my prognosis of like what needs to 701 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:26,960 happen in disc golf. And it's kind of unfortunate 702 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:30,000 because you do look back on the good old days like it's like, 703 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,240 man, I, I made a lot of money that month or like, man, this 704 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:33,960 year was so good for us in terms of sales. 705 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:36,040 It's like sweet, that can be true. 706 00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:38,200 But you can also be where you are now and you kind of have to 707 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:39,680 accept it. Otherwise it's really hard to 708 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:41,760 move forward if you're just trying to look backwards to get 709 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:43,520 back to where you were. I feel like it's really hard to 710 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,560 effectively move forward because I don't think consumers, an 711 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,640 audience, like consumers in terms of like dynamic or other 712 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:52,280 businesses or audience in terms of me. 713 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:54,920 Like they're not dumb. Like they can tell what they can 714 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,120 smell when you're desperate and like you're just trying to get 715 00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,400 something done and like trying to get back to somewhere versus 716 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,120 like, OK, this is what it is. Like let's move forward and 717 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,560 like, let's do it together. Like I think trying to really 718 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,200 focus on the top of funnel things, adjusting how I'm 719 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:08,840 attacking my content in the new year. 720 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:12,880 And, and I think it'll make sense to people, at least I'm 721 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:14,240 hopeful. Maybe it won't, but I'm hopeful 722 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,720 that it will because it's something that in my mind is 723 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,200 going to be serving them better because I'm focused on what they 724 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,560 need more so than like I need to make this amount of money. 725 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:22,680 So I need to figure out how to do that. 726 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,360 This last month, I've really, I've shifted my focus. 727 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:27,920 I'm glad we had this conversation this month instead 728 00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,640 of a month or two ago because there's been so much like, like 729 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,760 personal shifts in growth that I've had to happen with this 730 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:36,120 move coming up. And a part of that has been 731 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:38,040 instead of like, oh man, I, I need to make this type of, I 732 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:39,280 need to make this amount of money this month. 733 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,160 So I'm just going to do what I've all, I'm going to make it 734 00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:43,000 this many videos and just trust it because that's what worked 735 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,520 for me before. Now it's like, how am I going to 736 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:47,600 focus on making the best video possible, giving each video a 737 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:49,840 little bit of time to breathe, which I'd never, I would always 738 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,480 try to post 20 or 30 * a month. And now I'm going to post 10 to 739 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:54,920 15 like this month. And I think I'm going to 740 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,160 actually for the first month in about 6 months, get back to the 741 00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,720 ad revenue that I was making six months, 6 to 18 months ago, like 742 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,960 that whole time period because I finally was like, this is what 743 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:05,320 it is. Let's move forward. 744 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:07,640 And I, I think I'm trying to speak a little bit more from 745 00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:09,880 like things that have worked for me that hopefully translate to 746 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:11,840 other people. But it's really helped me to be 747 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:14,920 like, well, this is what it is. Instead of like, OK, how do I 748 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:16,760 just like what, what are the things that I've done that have 749 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:18,920 worked? And I think that's where I felt 750 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:20,720 that desperation. And I posted videos and I've 751 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,360 been like, I hope people don't see how like desperate this 752 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:25,160 feels. And then like the video doesn't 753 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:26,160 do well. And I'm like, why did it do 754 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:28,320 well? And it's like every like people, 755 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:30,000 audiences, consumers, they're not dumb. 756 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,520 Like they understand what's going on and they can smell it. 757 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:35,960 And like, if something is for my interest, not their interest, I 758 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,480 don't, I don't think that's hard to find. 759 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:40,560 And I think there's a mix where it's like it's always going to 760 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:44,720 be on a, on a dimmer of like, it's not all one or all the 761 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,400 other. There has to be like a it's for 762 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,680 them and for me. But I think when it one skews so 763 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:54,000 much farther towards me and like, I need to make money from 764 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:55,160 this, I need to make this happen. 765 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,200 It's pretty palpable. I don't think. 766 00:33:57,680 --> 00:33:59,960 And I I don't, I don't especially over the long term. 767 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:01,920 Like if it's something that you're wanting to do over the 768 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,880 long term, I don't think that trying to chase the the money 769 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,200 that'll be quick, that'll get you back to where you were is 770 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,080 the right move. I think trying to find what's 771 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:12,400 sustainable strategy for this is like, let's instead of like, 772 00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:14,280 like your question finally getting back to it. 773 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:18,800 Jesus, your question of like, do I think this is the floor? 774 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:21,840 I think that it's the floor. If we acknowledge that it's the 775 00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:23,199 floor. If we don't acknowledge that 776 00:34:23,199 --> 00:34:25,320 it's the floor and we're still looking backwards on like this 777 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:27,159 is what it was, we got to get back there, then it might not be 778 00:34:27,159 --> 00:34:28,480 the floor. But I think if we acknowledge 779 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:30,639 like this is where things are. And I, this is where I have to 780 00:34:30,639 --> 00:34:32,000 commend the pro tour. I think they've done a pretty 781 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,159 good job of this where it's like purses have gone down and there 782 00:34:35,159 --> 00:34:37,320 hasn't been like, I mean, I haven't been watching a lot of 783 00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:39,880 like social media or YouTube at all for the last couple months. 784 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:43,840 I just have had so little time. But I haven't, it hasn't seemed 785 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:45,520 to me like in their press releases and the little things 786 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:49,040 that I've seen that like they've been like insanely apologetic or 787 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:50,560 like anything crazy about like, oh, I'm so sorry. 788 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:51,760 Like this used to be so much more. 789 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,080 And it's not that anymore. It's like this is the purse and 790 00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:55,960 like next year's like we're going to do double S and it's 791 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:57,800 like we're trying, they're trying to move forward and 792 00:34:57,800 --> 00:34:59,800 figure things out and like this is where we are. 793 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:01,520 Let's move forward. Let's stop trying to look 794 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:03,560 backwards. Let's look forward and the 795 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:05,640 forward it. We might never get back to where 796 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:09,320 we were, but we might surpass it way quicker if we acknowledge 797 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:12,160 that this is the floor or this could be the floor and figure 798 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:14,840 out like how do we make it that? Like how do we make this our 799 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,880 foundation rather than how do we try to scramble to get to where 800 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:21,560 we used to be? Those are too many thoughts. 801 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:25,480 Yeah, no, that's OK. Let's let's kind of switch gears 802 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:28,120 a little bit. Let's talk more on the disc golf 803 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:30,120 side. As far as the competition side, 804 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:34,440 what has any of those goals shifted for you as far as your 805 00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:39,600 play? Yeah, yes, yes and no, kind of. 806 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:43,240 I think yes, compared to early this year, No, compared to the 807 00:35:43,240 --> 00:35:45,240 long run, I think so. It's kind of interesting. 808 00:35:45,240 --> 00:35:48,120 So I started playing disc golf 2022 in January. 809 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:52,120 So it's been almost four years now and I set this goal when I, 810 00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:55,400 I start my channel in May of that year, May or June or it was 811 00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,160 June and I set I set this goal of like, I want to cash at a pro 812 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:00,120 tour. So I did my first MA one 813 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,040 tournament. I like was vlogging that. 814 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:03,800 And then I've I've like vlogged everything up to there. 815 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:05,880 And then the Kansas City wide open was a silver series in like 816 00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:09,680 2023 or something. Yeah, and I like I cashed at it 817 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:11,160 And then like, I kind of like lost. 818 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:12,400 I was like, OK, well, that was a big goal. 819 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:14,880 And even though it wasn't a true pro tour event, I wasn't doing 820 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:16,240 that much more. I was still like in the van. 821 00:36:16,240 --> 00:36:17,880 And so I was like, well, that's fine. 822 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:22,200 And so I, I instead of like continuing to try to push to the 823 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,640 next goal, I was focused on like, Oh, my contents doing 824 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:26,840 fine. So like, I'm going to focus on, 825 00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:29,320 on this a lot. And and then I did get a decent 826 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:31,960 bit better, but my progress kind of stalled a bit. 827 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:35,880 And then this last year in 2024, I started like paying for a 828 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,120 trainer and was like working on my body a lot. 829 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:40,440 And that was that went pretty well. 830 00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:42,360 But then earlier this year, I like went to the Kansas City 831 00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:43,520 wide open. I was trying to do everything. 832 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:44,600 I was trying to make all my videos. 833 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:45,840 I was trying to train all the time. 834 00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:48,560 I was trying to be a great pro and I basically like been 835 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:52,520 working like the offseason for me sometimes like that. 836 00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:54,480 That last offseason was kind of like my on season because I was 837 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:56,280 like, I'm just going to post so much and I'm still going to 838 00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:57,240 train. It's the offseason. 839 00:36:57,240 --> 00:36:58,560 Then I got to Kansas City wide open. 840 00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:00,760 This is my first big tournament of the year and I just like was 841 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:02,800 so burned out and played so bad and like didn't care and I 842 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:07,040 really hated that I didn't care. And so ultimately it took like a 843 00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,720 lot of the rest of this year to figure out like, what do I want 844 00:37:10,240 --> 00:37:12,800 to happen professionally? Because a part of that was like, 845 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:17,760 I, I have a one month old or a one year old who was born August 846 00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:20,160 of 2024. And so that just changes your 847 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:24,680 whole entire life. And I don't think I fully 848 00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:25,880 acknowledge like what that would mean. 849 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:29,160 And so now it's, it's changed the goals, but more so the 850 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:31,840 timeline and the intensity for which they're important. 851 00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:36,640 Because to me, I like, if I have like this big nebulous goal, it 852 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:39,040 feels important to like solve it and figure it out. 853 00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:42,720 And so like trying to get a tour card or cash on the tour, I felt 854 00:37:42,720 --> 00:37:44,800 like I was so much further away from that than like some of my 855 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,040 like creator goals. And so I would put the creator 856 00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:48,960 goals a little bit more to the wayside or like set them a 857 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,480 little lower so I could focus on the tour goal. 858 00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,960 And that's like fun for my inner child who wants to be pro 859 00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,240 athlete, but it's not one good for me professionally or my 860 00:37:59,240 --> 00:38:01,200 business. And it's not good because I 861 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,040 want, I mean, we talked about I want to be a YouTube since I was 862 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:05,000 in like middle school. So like this disco thing just 863 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:06,640 came up. And so it's like kind of chasing 864 00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:08,960 the new exciting thing. And so the goals have more 865 00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:11,720 morphed into what I kind of believe is a more like mature 866 00:38:11,720 --> 00:38:14,480 version of like, I think the goal ladder is still there of 867 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,000 like cashing out a full E series, trying to get a tour 868 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:19,320 card, maybe eventually getting into Tour Championship. 869 00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:21,480 Like I would love to like be good enough to do that. 870 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,960 But that used to be like super important for me that that would 871 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:27,600 all happen. And I would like, I feel like I 872 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:29,400 was willing to give up so much to make that happen. 873 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:31,720 And now I'm willing to give up very little to make that happen. 874 00:38:31,720 --> 00:38:35,480 Not that I'm not going to try to make it happen, but because I've 875 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,720 set myself up in a way that I'm a better position than most 876 00:38:38,720 --> 00:38:40,520 people to like really go after it. 877 00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:43,280 Like in the new year, I'm going to my wife's, not my wife's 878 00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:46,160 going to focus more on childcare and helping me with our business 879 00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:47,840 together. I'm going to focus on content 880 00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:49,880 and I'm going to have a lot more time to focus on training. 881 00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,840 And my content can help me train because I'm getting access to 882 00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:54,600 the best players in the world and coaching and like all the 883 00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:56,960 stuff that's like, I have incredible opportunity here. 884 00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:00,000 But I used to like almost be willing to give it all up 885 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:01,720 because I was, I like needed to be pro. 886 00:39:01,720 --> 00:39:03,840 And I think a part of that was like, I set the goal. 887 00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:06,960 And so it was very like, there's a lot of ego in it because it 888 00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:12,120 would feel very disappointing, but also embarrassing to not hit 889 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:14,880 those goals if I couldn't because I set them pretty 890 00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:17,240 publicly. And what I've come to terms with 891 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:20,000 over the course of this year as like I did perform pretty poorly 892 00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:23,000 and I did all right. I got like 50th at, at elite 893 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:25,120 event in Cascade Challenge or Portland OR something to like 894 00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:26,920 50th and 60th. I was playing pretty decent for 895 00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:28,840 those stretches. And then I played really bad at 896 00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,480 like the Creator's Cup and, and the Des Moines Challenge or just 897 00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:34,880 being a challenge. And it made me realize like this 898 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:38,440 to me needs to be my fun hobby in disc golf, like trying to 899 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:40,160 train a GoPro. I want to work really hard at it 900 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:42,040 because anything that I want to do, I want to work really hard 901 00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:44,040 at. But I need to figure out what am 902 00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:46,120 I willing to sacrifice for this goal. 903 00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:48,440 And just the answer turned out to be not a lot to me. 904 00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:50,560 Content creation is all is always going to be first. 905 00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:54,440 And I think for a lot of 2024 and early 2025, it was pretty 906 00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:56,800 far second because it was a solved science to me. 907 00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,360 I knew if I posted this much I would make this much money and 908 00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:02,680 I'd be fine like and so. That became like, OK, now I just 909 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,440 got to focus on training. And then it's like, well, 910 00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:07,480 actually your daughter needs a lot of more energy than you 911 00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:11,440 thought. And, and also like if you're 912 00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:13,440 phoning in your content, your content's going to feel like 913 00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:15,320 it's phoned in. So people aren't going to so 914 00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:17,080 like you're going to be on a little steady decline. 915 00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:19,320 And So what I realized is like for me, it's always going to, 916 00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:22,000 it's going to be content first. But I think that goal ladder of 917 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,080 those things I talked about first, cashing out an elite 918 00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:27,200 event is important. But it also means that like for 919 00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:29,480 instance, next year, my focus is going to be so much more local, 920 00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,280 which I think is what everyone advised me to do anyways. 921 00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:34,080 But because I had the opportunity to go and play the 922 00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:36,560 bigger events because I could swing it financially, because I 923 00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:38,640 can make videos out there and like just make it work. 924 00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:41,280 I would go and do those versus like next year, it's like, well, 925 00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:43,360 let's save some money. Let's figure out what this looks 926 00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,160 like with my wife not working full time anymore. 927 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:48,480 Let's play as much locally as I can and try to get as good as I 928 00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:50,000 can and win a bunch of stuff hopefully. 929 00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:53,480 And like see what happens. And I think always before is 930 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:55,800 like, I'm going to be a pro. And now I'm like, let's see what 931 00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,520 happens. And I think that that for me, 932 00:40:59,240 --> 00:41:01,840 because I can trust my work ethic and trust like the 933 00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:05,800 foundation I've already laid, is a higher likelihood of success 934 00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:08,560 than trying to force it. Because I feel like I won't let 935 00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:12,200 as much go to the wayside and I will actually do the things that 936 00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:18,160 are either harder or more embarrassing or, or like require 937 00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:22,960 a little bit less ego to do. Because now it's I'm not my 938 00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:25,520 whole like ego isn't tied to like whether or not I'm going to 939 00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:27,040 be a pro. But I still think like I would 940 00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:29,800 like to at least have a couple years in my career down the road 941 00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:32,280 where I do try to have a full tour and just again, see what 942 00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:34,400 happens. But I think I would try to force 943 00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:36,240 it and be like, I'm going to get good enough on the road. 944 00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:38,760 And then I just have a lot of time blindness and didn't know 945 00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:41,040 like what would actually take. And now it's like, let me be a 946 00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:44,280 little more methodical and slow. Like all this is all I'm talking 947 00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:46,200 about slow growth. And whenever I've pursued slow 948 00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:48,120 growth, the growth has been much faster than the slow growth that 949 00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:49,960 I've wanted. Like I was when I started my 950 00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:51,960 YouTube channel in disc golf, I wanted slow growth. 951 00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:53,320 I was like, let's just try to make some videos. 952 00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:54,760 I'll still make stuff on my other channel and like, we'll 953 00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:56,480 figure this out over time. And within six months, I was 954 00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:59,520 making full time income. And so it's just like I feel 955 00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:03,800 like pursuing slow growth unfixes my mind. 956 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:06,160 I feel like I have a fixed mindset for the most part. 957 00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:08,800 If I'm really trying to pursue a goal and I have to get it. 958 00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:11,600 If I'm like, this is a cool goal, let's try to make it 959 00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:12,680 happen. I feel like I have a growth 960 00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:15,560 mindset. I'm very open to all feedback 961 00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,360 and opportunities from from everywhere and different ways of 962 00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:20,480 making it happen. If I've if I am trying to pursue 963 00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:23,560 the goal, I'm very good at visualizing what it takes to get 964 00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:27,040 somewhere, but I'm not going to straying from that once it's 965 00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:29,760 become super important for me to get to that goal. 966 00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:33,480 And so I feel like I would listen less to like the pros 967 00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:35,440 that I would interact with, the coaches that interact with that 968 00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:38,240 I could have actually gotten more benefit from if I would 969 00:42:38,240 --> 00:42:39,680 have been more open to what they say. 970 00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:42,120 Because I had this idea of how I was going to make it happen. 971 00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:44,360 And the idea of how I'm going to make. 972 00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:46,520 And, and, and any time that I've had an idea of how I'm going to 973 00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:49,880 make something happen, it's gone worse than if I've just let it 974 00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:52,840 happen and tried really hard. I feel like trying hard and 975 00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:54,880 putting a lot of effort into it is much more important than 976 00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:58,320 doing it on the terms that I set out to do. 977 00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:01,120 And so that's been the biggest shift for me since I set that 978 00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:03,000 goal a while ago. And when I set the initial goal 979 00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:05,280 of cashing at the at the proto event, that's where I was. 980 00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:07,120 I was like, I'm going to figure out, I'm going to figure it out. 981 00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:09,600 And and then I did and I casted like the and I was kind of 982 00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:11,400 confused because it was like a silver event. 983 00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:13,480 So it didn't really count, but I was like, OK, maybe it kind of 984 00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:15,440 counts. And I was like, OK, sweet, I did 985 00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:17,360 it. And so I'm like, now I'm good or 986 00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:19,840 now I'm good enough and like, now I can figure it out and I 987 00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:22,320 know what I'm doing. And it's like, no, I got like, 988 00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:26,720 don't change the thing that I did to get there, which was just 989 00:43:26,720 --> 00:43:29,680 taking in a bunch of feedback, not having an ego attached to it 990 00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:32,720 and really trying hard. And instead I'm like, OK, well, 991 00:43:32,720 --> 00:43:36,280 I'm fine now. So I'll just, it'll just happen. 992 00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:37,840 It's like that's not how anything works. 993 00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:40,840 Yeah, you definitely don't have. You definitely have to figure 994 00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:44,640 out how to not attach your ego to it too much. 995 00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:47,280 Or another way of saying it, you've got to build a thick skin 996 00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:50,960 for sure, especially as you're putting yourself out there. 997 00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:53,520 Cuz you know. Everybody makes goals, right? 998 00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:55,840 We make goals in our life. Sometimes we achieve those 999 00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:58,760 goals, sometimes we don't. And, and not that many people 1000 00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:00,960 know, right? They may not know, but when 1001 00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:04,360 you're putting it out there, you know, all your viewers know. 1002 00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:07,040 And yet again, like I said before, opens yourself up for 1003 00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:09,120 people to scrutinize it and stuff like that. 1004 00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:12,800 But, but it's, it's all good. And I love to hear that you have 1005 00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,720 your, it sounds like what you've, you've learned from what 1006 00:44:16,720 --> 00:44:19,040 you've put out there and the goals you put for yourself. 1007 00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:22,120 And then you've learned to kind of make sure that you are 1008 00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:24,160 working toward the right goal. So I think that's great. 1009 00:44:25,720 --> 00:44:27,800 So OK, so we're almost out of time because I want to be 1010 00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:30,440 respectful of your time. So just some quick questions. 1011 00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:33,960 What, what for you? And you maybe alluded to it a 1012 00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:36,960 little bit, but what what keeps disc golf fun for you? 1013 00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:39,400 How do you how do you make sure that it's, even though it's your 1014 00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:43,160 job, even though it's something you love doing, but in the back 1015 00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:44,920 of your mind, do you think this is what I needed? 1016 00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:47,480 To do to make sure that disc golf's still fun. 1017 00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:50,880 All right, I'm going to commit to one minute answers from here 1018 00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:51,760 and out. That way you can answer 1019 00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:56,760 questions. Man, I, that is, I need a timer. 1020 00:44:56,760 --> 00:45:01,400 Actually, if I'm honest, I almost never think about like, 1021 00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:05,600 let me make sure that this is fun because to me, I, I find 1022 00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:08,040 like sad I, I try to find satisfaction a lot of times. 1023 00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:13,680 And satisfaction also always comes from like seeing a seeing 1024 00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:16,000 results from something that you're doing. 1025 00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:19,920 And so like if I am making a video and it's doing well, 1026 00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:21,520 that's great. If I'm learning a new disc and 1027 00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:22,400 trying to get better, it's great. 1028 00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:24,840 But I think when disc golf is most fun for me is when I'm 1029 00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:27,560 actually trying to like learn how to be better. 1030 00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:30,840 And so working on my form is something I haven't been doing a 1031 00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:32,600 lot. But ultimately that's like when 1032 00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:34,880 it's most fun. I think disc golf baseline is 1033 00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:37,680 just always super fun. I think the biggest deal for me 1034 00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:42,360 is keeping my expectations low for like I and my expectations 1035 00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:45,120 meaning like that fixed mindset of like, I have to get this, 1036 00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:48,280 like if I have to cast it at an event or if I have to win or if 1037 00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:50,440 I have to get this many views on a video, that's when stuff 1038 00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:52,160 becomes less fun. But if I just kind of let it be 1039 00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:54,720 what it is, I feel like I've set myself up in a way that my 1040 00:45:54,720 --> 00:45:56,080 life's pretty fun, if I'm honest. 1041 00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:58,240 There's a lot of work, but it's also like I get a lot of 1042 00:45:58,240 --> 00:45:59,440 satisfaction from it. So it's pretty fun. 1043 00:45:59,960 --> 00:46:01,160 Nice. What's OK? 1044 00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:04,320 Real quick last question. What's if people only take one 1045 00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:07,600 thing away from your journey so far? 1046 00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:08,640 What? What should it be? 1047 00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:19,680 I think the first thing that comes to mind is that like 1048 00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:23,640 you're, you're never done and you always, if you can always 1049 00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:27,760 keep a headspace of like trying to get better, then you'll win. 1050 00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:31,680 I always, I try to think about it as better, not best, because 1051 00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:33,880 best is comparative. Like I'm comparing myself to 1052 00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:35,280 you, I'm comparing myself to other creators. 1053 00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:37,840 I'm comparing myself to pros like if I'm trying to be the 1054 00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:40,320 best, but if I'm just trying to be better, I'll probably get way 1055 00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:42,240 closer to being the best than if I focus on being the best. 1056 00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:45,880 So trying to get trying to always improve and grow. 1057 00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:48,760 And when I've stagnated and when stuff has gone downhill or, and 1058 00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:52,040 it's always been when I'm like, I need to be making this much 1059 00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:55,000 money or making this many videos or doing this instead of like, 1060 00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:58,880 how can I learn to be better at my craft or at my game? 1061 00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:00,760 And those are the things that I think are more important. 1062 00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:03,520 Yeah, I totally agree. Completely agree. 1063 00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:06,800 All right, Well, Anthony, again, I appreciate you hopping on here 1064 00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:09,800 and sharing some of your journey and answering your questions. 1065 00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:12,960 Where can people? I know most people know, but 1066 00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:16,040 just in case, where can people follow your journey on YouTube 1067 00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:19,240 and other channels? I think mostly YouTube's Bonanza 1068 00:47:19,240 --> 00:47:21,600 Disc Golf and then I have a second channel right now called 1069 00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:23,680 Banana Froff that might be changing sometime in the near 1070 00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:26,160 future. But and then Instagram, 1071 00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:28,840 Appadanza disc golf, Facebook, YouTube, I think I'm or Tiktok. 1072 00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:33,200 I'm kind of everywhere. But I wanted to ask Bobby 1073 00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:35,960 because this is this is disc golf answer, man. 1074 00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:37,640 After all, not disc golf asker man. 1075 00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:39,680 You might need to change the name of the podcast. 1076 00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:43,880 I'm intrigued about kind of your thoughts as someone who's very 1077 00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:47,880 inside of disc golf, inside of a disc golf company that has been 1078 00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:50,880 acquired and is going on undergoing a lot of 1079 00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:53,160 restructuring and things have been a little crazy. 1080 00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:55,440 And what are the brands and what's important? 1081 00:47:56,040 --> 00:48:00,840 How do you see where disc golf is right now and what it can be 1082 00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:02,840 doing best to grow from your perspective? 1083 00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:04,560 Because I feel like I shared a lot. 1084 00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:07,560 I'm pretty intrigued. And also not only like inside of 1085 00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:09,880 the manufacturing space, but I talked a lot about the business 1086 00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:12,080 side of things where I'm just a solo creator who kind of has a 1087 00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:14,320 business. I was just in in like what we 1088 00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:16,120 could be doing as creators to help continue to grow this 1089 00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:18,360 board. That's a great question. 1090 00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:24,880 So what do I think about a disc? It's interesting. 1091 00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:29,160 I'm I've only been away for from disc golf or from Dynamic Discs 1092 00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:32,840 for four years. But what the biggest thing I 1093 00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:35,600 found was when I heard I was coming back, when I the idea of 1094 00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:39,920 coming back to Dynamic Discs, I started doing research on what's 1095 00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:45,080 happening on social media. You came up, Jay Miley, came up, 1096 00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:48,160 Silas Broderick, all these different. 1097 00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:53,720 And the biggest thing I noticed the shift was it felt like what 1098 00:48:53,720 --> 00:48:56,760 was happening outside of disc golf when it came to YouTube 1099 00:48:56,760 --> 00:49:00,960 content creation, the creator economy as they call it, where 1100 00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:04,200 you know, young people are going to actually not just make 1101 00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:06,760 YouTube videos just for the fun of it, they're going to actually 1102 00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:09,400 make this a career. It was cool to see that it was 1103 00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:13,680 happening in disc golf. So that got me super excited. 1104 00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:16,320 And then when I got back to die, then when I actually started 1105 00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:19,320 working the dynamic disc, I started realizing that like disc 1106 00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:22,440 golf was still kind of on its way down from the pandemic. 1107 00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:27,480 When I left it was like. We were still selling out of 1108 00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:29,240 discs. We couldn't keep discs in the 1109 00:49:29,240 --> 00:49:32,080 warehouse. And I was I when I left, I was 1110 00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:34,120 like, I'm crazy for leaving because right now it's like 1111 00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:36,800 crazy. As far as what you guys can do 1112 00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:39,560 to help, I say I love what you're saying. 1113 00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:43,400 As far as like not chasing the virality, not trying to be the 1114 00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:45,320 best, but just trying to improve yourself. 1115 00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:51,080 I say, I would say continue to share your journey so that 1116 00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:54,600 people that want to connect, that want to that enjoy your 1117 00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:56,680 journey, that can relate to your journey. 1118 00:49:56,680 --> 00:50:00,320 And then the commonality you have of the love of disc golf, 1119 00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:02,600 they're going to gravitate to you, right? 1120 00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:04,880 Not everybody's going to like your style. 1121 00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:08,000 Not everybody's going to like how you do it, how you tell your 1122 00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:11,840 story, but I truly believe enough people will enjoy it that 1123 00:50:12,240 --> 00:50:15,040 you'll be able to do what you want to do within disc golf and 1124 00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:17,600 within YouTube. That was one of the things when 1125 00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:20,400 I first started that dynamic disc, that's what my goal was. 1126 00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:23,320 I was just, my whole thing was, I'm just going to share our 1127 00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:26,240 journey. I'm going to show what happens 1128 00:50:26,240 --> 00:50:29,960 behind the scenes. I just wanted you along for the 1129 00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:32,640 ride. When someone would come up to me 1130 00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:35,360 and they'd say, oh, my gosh, Bobby, I know this sounds weird, 1131 00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:37,520 but I feel like I know you. I feel like I could go hang out 1132 00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:39,520 with you at a bar and have a beer and we'd be friends. 1133 00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:42,360 I think, yeah, that's kind of what I was trying to do. 1134 00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:45,760 I was just the guy that liked disc golf and loved being on 1135 00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:47,280 video and love sharing the story. 1136 00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:51,280 So I would say we need more people like you that are just 1137 00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:54,080 sharing their journey. And disc golf happens to be 1138 00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:58,440 another common string between you and your audience. 1139 00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:02,120 It is kind of, and it is this kind of a thing that I try to 1140 00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:05,120 teach our players. You know, there is kind of a lot 1141 00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:07,440 of it feels like, I don't know if you feel it, maybe I'm in a 1142 00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:12,760 weird bubble, but it feels like people downplay the importance 1143 00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:17,600 of social media and and content creation as far as what players 1144 00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:19,240 need to do. Like there's this whole battle. 1145 00:51:19,240 --> 00:51:22,800 They need to concentrate on being a pro player, which I 1146 00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:26,480 totally get, but they also need to the state that disc golf is 1147 00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:28,560 in right now. They need to also realize the 1148 00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:33,640 importance of using media to help them accomplish their disc 1149 00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:35,960 golf goals. So, but I don't know that is 1150 00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:39,120 that something you kind of feel or you see from from what you 1151 00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:42,400 see out there as far as the player versus being a pro 1152 00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:44,960 player? If he's versus, you know, it, it 1153 00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:48,200 feels like Simon's the anonymous, the the outlier. 1154 00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:51,240 You know, he's a great disc golfer, but he's also a great 1155 00:51:51,240 --> 00:51:54,480 content creator. Yeah, I can. 1156 00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:57,960 I definitely see that. I think there's, I think that 1157 00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:01,000 makes sense with an understanding of like what this 1158 00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:06,800 golf could be. And I think that's similar to I 1159 00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:10,080 feel like from a pro players perspective, which I don't have 1160 00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:12,240 because I'm content creator by far 1st. 1161 00:52:12,240 --> 00:52:14,400 And that was pretty intentional When I learned about disc golf 1162 00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:16,960 and like wanted to make stuff, I was like, oh, maybe I can go pro 1163 00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:19,280 like 'cause like this is a sport that's like easier to go pro. 1164 00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:21,280 And then a lot of other sports 'cause I got started when I was 1165 00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:24,280 24 and it's like it's potentially there impossible. 1166 00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:27,240 But I was always like, let me make sure that the money's good 1167 00:52:27,240 --> 00:52:30,120 first because I know like the contracts might not be there 1168 00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:31,280 forever. Let me make sure that like I 1169 00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:35,120 have, I'm providing enough value that I can do this for the long 1170 00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:37,160 term because it's a short term game. 1171 00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:40,560 If you're relying only on like other people or other companies. 1172 00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:42,760 And similar to what I was talking about with where your 1173 00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:47,240 question about the floor, where my opinion is just that the 1174 00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:50,480 floor is there if you let it be, but you need to let it be 1175 00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:53,360 instead of looking backwards. I think it's a little bit of a 1176 00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:55,520 backwards view. And I say this at being friends 1177 00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:57,680 with a lot of pros. I think it's a bit of a 1178 00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:00,840 backwards view to think that you don't have to promote yourself 1179 00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:04,160 because companies are so spread thin and there's not a lot of 1180 00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:07,840 money around in disc golf that you can't stand out by figuring 1181 00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:09,840 out like who you're talking to on social media and and 1182 00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:14,600 garnering a following. Because it seems to me, and I 1183 00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:16,400 don't know this to be the case because I'm not in these back 1184 00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:19,920 end conversations at all. But it seems to me like the like 1185 00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:23,720 there's a reliance on manufacturers and sponsorships 1186 00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:27,360 from pros in order to continue subsisting in disc golf. 1187 00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:30,880 And that's a little dissonant with where the market is in disc 1188 00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:34,560 golf right now with the ability of manufacturers and other 1189 00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:37,680 sponsoring agencies and entities to pay players. 1190 00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:41,880 I feel like there's there's not enough money in disc golf right 1191 00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:46,640 now for the value that is being created by players for the 1192 00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:48,040 manufacturers and other companies. 1193 00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:51,200 And I think it's looking backwards a little bit to be 1194 00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:55,200 like, well, this is what it was, so I should get this contract. 1195 00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:57,720 And it's not quite looking at the current state of things, 1196 00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:01,480 which I think there's an opportunity there for the pros 1197 00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:05,200 who do realize like what the current state of things is. 1198 00:54:05,720 --> 00:54:10,680 And how do you provide value to a manufacturing company as well 1199 00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:13,560 as to your audience or your your fan base? 1200 00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:16,280 That's what it's called when you're a pro athlete, not an 1201 00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:21,960 audience to your fan base. So because frankly, there's just 1202 00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:24,760 not like there's a lot of people on tour and there's not enough 1203 00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:27,680 for everyone to make like a full time living just based off of 1204 00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:32,440 this. The what it seems to be the 1205 00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:34,960 manufacturer's pockets right now with how much they need to pay 1206 00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:36,880 for their big stuff. And so that's right. 1207 00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:42,160 I do agree with you, But I also think that that's, I think right 1208 00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:43,840 now we're kind of in the dip of that. 1209 00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:46,920 There's a really super tiny book called the Dip by Seth Godin. 1210 00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:49,120 It's like 70 pages. I read that in the middle of the 1211 00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:50,960 year, like when I was like my most depressed, having the most 1212 00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:53,600 like crazy time. And it made me understand, it 1213 00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:56,480 made me really feel good about like, yeah, this is kind of 1214 00:54:56,480 --> 00:54:57,600 where I'm at. It really sucks. 1215 00:54:57,600 --> 00:55:00,920 But also there's like a way out. And a part of that is just like 1216 00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:06,200 I I feel like we're in that dip right now for the expectations 1217 00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:07,840 of players and expectations of manufacturers. 1218 00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:09,400 It feels like they're further apart than they've been in a 1219 00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:12,360 long time. And a part of that might be the 1220 00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:14,520 transparency of like the manufacturers not wanting to be 1221 00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:16,440 like, oh, we're super, we're super down. 1222 00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:18,560 We got no money. And like that could and like, 1223 00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:20,600 they don't want to tell their players that because the like, 1224 00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:22,520 there's not a lot of closed mouths in disc golf. 1225 00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:24,800 Like people will talk. And so you don't want to be 1226 00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:26,800 like, oh, dude, we, we got no money to pay anybody. 1227 00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:29,680 But at the same time that it seems like that's the reality 1228 00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:32,280 for a lot of companies, but there's still the expectation of 1229 00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:35,880 players that they can get full salaries and not just like deals 1230 00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:40,320 that are based on sales. And it seems to me that like it, 1231 00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:42,120 it is important to like work really hard. 1232 00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:45,480 Your crafted GoPro. But the question to me becomes 1233 00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:49,200 like what benefit is there of being like top 25 in the world 1234 00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:52,280 versus top eight in the world is a very different place. 1235 00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:57,400 But the player who's 25 to wherever I am at 350th, like 1236 00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:03,360 probably further down, but where wherever that is like being able 1237 00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:07,360 to create something valuable to a manufacturer or company. 1238 00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:11,520 It is going to take away from their professional ambitions in 1239 00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:15,000 the short term. But I think a long term view is 1240 00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:17,720 that they might not have a great 123 seasons, but if they're 1241 00:56:17,720 --> 00:56:21,200 providing enough value to the people who are paying them and 1242 00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:24,840 to creating value in other ways, I think that their longevity in 1243 00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:28,400 the sport will be longer. And so it's you got, I mean, 1244 00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:31,360 it's hard thing to balance. I can't I it's hard to get in 1245 00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:33,680 those shoes because you do understand like you want to 1246 00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:35,760 practice and get to be the best that you can. 1247 00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:39,200 But if you can get to be the best that you can with a one 1248 00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:42,520 year runway versus A5 year runway, it's might take you 1249 00:56:42,520 --> 00:56:45,000 until year 4 to get as good as you could have been in year 1. 1250 00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:47,400 And I'm hoping that's the case for me because I'm like on to 1251 00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:48,520 year 4. You're coming here soon. 1252 00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:49,560 So I'm hoping that can be the case. 1253 00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:51,720 But like it might take way longer. 1254 00:56:51,720 --> 00:56:55,280 But your runway and your, your ability to do it will be so much 1255 00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:58,600 more sustainable. But it's, I mean, it's, there's 1256 00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:00,680 so many things that are like, they're not easy problems. 1257 00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:02,960 And I think it's easy to talk about them as if they're easy 1258 00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:06,640 problems and they're just not. Yeah, it's, it's definitely. 1259 00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:09,120 The thing is when I talk to people, it's like, I get it. 1260 00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:11,760 It's tough. It's tough trying to be a top 1261 00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:15,160 pro player and tough being your own marketing person. 1262 00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:20,320 You know, brands are stretched in, they can only concentrate on 1263 00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:23,200 so many players and the top players are the ones they're 1264 00:57:23,200 --> 00:57:25,360 going to promote, right? I mean, that's just makes sense. 1265 00:57:25,640 --> 00:57:29,240 But to also answer your question on the business side, yeah, I 1266 00:57:29,240 --> 00:57:34,200 mean, business is good. Is it fantastic? 1267 00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:37,600 No, it's not fantastic. It's not fantastic like it was, 1268 00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:40,960 but it's still good. Are there days that we meet our 1269 00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:41,880 goals? Yes. 1270 00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:43,240 Are there days that we fall short? 1271 00:57:43,320 --> 00:57:46,520 Yes. But overall business is good. 1272 00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:49,200 I wouldn't be here if I didn't feel that way, right? 1273 00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:51,920 I, I, I wasn't forced to come back right? 1274 00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:55,320 I, I, I took a hard look at it, talked to a bunch of people in 1275 00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:58,920 the industry within dynamic disks on the outside of dynamic 1276 00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:02,840 disks, because I wanted to get a sense of like, am I just jumping 1277 00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:06,440 onto a sinking ship? And I, I'm not. 1278 00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:10,080 And so, you know, without getting into, into specifics, 1279 00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:13,040 you know, sure, from the outside, I get it, things don't 1280 00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:17,480 look good, but it, what breaks my heart is the misconceptions, 1281 00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:21,800 the, the perception that people have for not just dynamic discs, 1282 00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:25,400 but of the entire House of discs and all the different brands. 1283 00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:28,240 I mean, I get what's happening. People feel like we're bleeding 1284 00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:30,360 together, but we're not, we're not bleeding together. 1285 00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:33,240 We're still trying to maintain the brand identity supper from 1286 00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:35,160 each other. But it broke my heart the other 1287 00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:40,280 day I was there was a a particular podcast that had put 1288 00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:44,360 out about something that had that wasn't looking good for 1289 00:58:44,360 --> 00:58:46,320 disc golf. And they kind of concentrated on 1290 00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:49,160 House of discs. And someone made a comment on 1291 00:58:49,160 --> 00:58:52,440 the on the video and said if House of Discs wants to survive, 1292 00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:56,080 they just need to let dynamic disc fail and go away. 1293 00:58:57,280 --> 00:58:58,960 Anthony that broke my heart, dude. 1294 00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:02,280 Like I was talking to my wife and I was almost in tears 1295 00:59:02,280 --> 00:59:06,480 because I was part of this brand when it was just a handful of 1296 00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:10,800 employees and helped build it to what it is now, right. 1297 00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:15,000 And so and it just the part that breaks my heart is people don't 1298 00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:18,800 understand that there's still a handful of people here that love 1299 00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:22,160 doing what they do. They love the sported disc golf. 1300 00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:24,920 Now some people are here because they want to paycheck course 1301 00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:26,520 that's that's we need those people. 1302 00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:29,480 But the majority of people love the sported disc golf and they 1303 00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:32,400 love the brands that they work for and they want to they're do 1304 00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:34,200 everyday trying to make the right decisions. 1305 00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:38,000 So it succeeds. And yet people are out there 1306 00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:40,440 just, you know, which their with their pitchforks. 1307 00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:43,920 So that part kind of gets to me. But every day I wake up and I 1308 00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:47,920 think I still love this brand. I still love playing disc golf. 1309 00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:50,160 I love the sport of disc golf and I love what disc golf has 1310 00:59:50,160 --> 00:59:52,760 done for me. So I want to continue to get 1311 00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:56,840 back to it. So, but as a business, we're 1312 00:59:56,840 --> 01:00:00,600 doing good, business is good and I'm excited for 2026. 1313 01:00:00,600 --> 01:00:04,600 We have a lot going on for 2026. And I'm excited about it. 1314 01:00:05,240 --> 01:00:08,480 Yeah, I think the perception and you can definitely correct me if 1315 01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:12,080 I'm wrong here, but I think the perception comes from most 1316 01:00:12,080 --> 01:00:14,880 people will gauge how a company is doing based off of the 1317 01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:17,000 contracts that they're able to give to professional players. 1318 01:00:17,520 --> 01:00:21,320 And that is not a reliable way of seeing how a company is 1319 01:00:21,320 --> 01:00:23,520 doing. And what the, what I said 1320 01:00:23,520 --> 01:00:26,560 earlier about like companies not having like we don't have any 1321 01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:29,960 money, that was specifically in terms of like some, some 1322 01:00:29,960 --> 01:00:31,480 companies might actually be failing, I don't know. 1323 01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:33,960 But like, I think a lot of companies are taking a much 1324 01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:38,000 harder look at what is actually bringing us and creating like 1325 01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:41,680 profits and revenues for us, not just what have we done. 1326 01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:44,840 And I think that that in one sense is something that I very 1327 01:00:44,840 --> 01:00:47,040 much advocate. I think it's going to be a hard 1328 01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:49,840 contraction in the professional sponsorship space, but not 1329 01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:52,880 necessarily a contraction in the company's profitability overall. 1330 01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:57,680 Because just like you said that Seth had said before, like disc 1331 01:00:57,680 --> 01:01:00,240 golf as a whole, like I think in terms of you disc, disc golf is 1332 01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:02,880 continuing to grow. Like the sport is continuing to 1333 01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:06,280 grow the professional space. The like, that's where there is 1334 01:01:06,280 --> 01:01:08,080 that difference and that disparity. 1335 01:01:08,080 --> 01:01:10,680 And this sales might be down because people like the sport 1336 01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:12,920 might be continuing to grow, but they might be less purchasers. 1337 01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:15,280 Like there's a ton of different, there's a confluence of factors 1338 01:01:15,560 --> 01:01:18,160 that affects it all, but I think people, the, the bottom line is, 1339 01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:21,400 I think people, because this is basically the only way that 1340 01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:22,920 they've been able to judge perception because these are all 1341 01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:24,800 private companies. They judge the perception based 1342 01:01:24,800 --> 01:01:26,560 off of their favorite pros and how much money they're able to 1343 01:01:26,560 --> 01:01:29,760 get from the companies. And it seems like companies used 1344 01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:32,440 to attribute or maybe not even tribute, they would just throw 1345 01:01:32,440 --> 01:01:35,360 money at players because they had growth, not necessarily 1346 01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:37,960 because the players themselves were the ones creating that 1347 01:01:37,960 --> 01:01:40,280 growth or value. And now it seems like companies 1348 01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:43,920 are trying to do a slightly more business prudent move of what is 1349 01:01:43,920 --> 01:01:45,800 actually creating that value and how do we put money towards it 1350 01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:49,840 while still servicing some sort of sponsorship marketing from 1351 01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:52,080 like players. But I just think that that's 1352 01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:54,200 where the disparity between manufacturers and players comes. 1353 01:01:54,200 --> 01:01:56,920 The the businesses aren't as good as they were during COVID, 1354 01:01:56,960 --> 01:01:59,240 which means that they're not like the surplus isn't going 1355 01:01:59,240 --> 01:02:00,400 through players. And it seems like there was 1356 01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:02,400 surplus money going through players, not necessarily money 1357 01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:06,760 that was created by like the the professional player assets that 1358 01:02:06,760 --> 01:02:09,720 a company had under their like marketing arm was is kind of my 1359 01:02:09,720 --> 01:02:13,560 thought as to where things are, which I think perception wise is 1360 01:02:13,560 --> 01:02:15,400 going to hurt companies a little bit. 1361 01:02:15,560 --> 01:02:19,280 But I also know that the perception hurt might not be 1362 01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:21,800 felt compared to the profitability hurt because 1363 01:02:21,800 --> 01:02:25,440 they're selling discs to people, not through their players, which 1364 01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:27,920 is why they're dropping their players kind of kind of idea. 1365 01:02:27,920 --> 01:02:30,680 So I think, I think there's a smart way to to do it where it 1366 01:02:30,680 --> 01:02:33,800 makes sense. But I'm really, yeah, I don't 1367 01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:34,800 know what it's going to look like. 1368 01:02:35,400 --> 01:02:39,040 But I agree with you that thinking about the long term 1369 01:02:39,040 --> 01:02:43,480 deal and figuring out how do how do I market myself a little bit. 1370 01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:45,000 And I think in a sense it stinks. 1371 01:02:45,000 --> 01:02:48,760 Like in an ideal world, I think companies are doing the 1372 01:02:48,760 --> 01:02:51,720 marketing for their players like other bigger companies and other 1373 01:02:51,720 --> 01:02:54,640 sports where they have marketing arms that are doing that. 1374 01:02:54,840 --> 01:02:56,600 But I just don't think that's quite the world that we live in. 1375 01:02:56,600 --> 01:02:59,520 Because like you're the brand manager, marketing director at 1376 01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:02,880 Dynamic, you don't have a massive team to be working like 1377 01:03:02,880 --> 01:03:06,320 you if there needs to be 1 to 3 dedicated people per disc golf 1378 01:03:06,320 --> 01:03:09,200 manufacturer team who are able to actually promote the players 1379 01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:10,800 that way. And it's just not the reality. 1380 01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:12,720 In an ideal world, it is. And maybe eventually we get to 1381 01:03:12,720 --> 01:03:14,440 that point and the players can just be players. 1382 01:03:15,120 --> 01:03:16,880 But it's a small enough sport right now that I think the 1383 01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:19,880 players, unless they're at the very tippy, tippy top or super 1384 01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:22,480 marketable in some way, you have to do a little bit of it 1385 01:03:22,480 --> 01:03:26,000 yourself to to give yourself the runway time to really become the 1386 01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:28,520 best. But that's coming from me who is 1387 01:03:28,800 --> 01:03:31,280 not that great at this golf. So they could take it or leave 1388 01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:34,160 it. Yeah, it's, it's weird because 1389 01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:36,520 there's a lot of days where I think, man, this is reminiscent 1390 01:03:36,600 --> 01:03:40,160 of when I first started where I'm the only content creator, 1391 01:03:40,160 --> 01:03:42,280 right? I'm the only one going out there 1392 01:03:42,280 --> 01:03:45,200 now. Eric helps me and he does stuff, 1393 01:03:45,200 --> 01:03:47,480 but it's like I'm the only one directing this where? 1394 01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:51,240 And then at one point it was me, Anthony, Danny, and I wish I had 1395 01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:53,880 another girl that was helping us part time. 1396 01:03:54,240 --> 01:03:58,160 And so my goal is to get back to that where I have a team working 1397 01:03:58,160 --> 01:04:01,320 and promoting and marketing and sharing the journey of Dynamic 1398 01:04:01,320 --> 01:04:03,000 Disk. So, but we'll get there. 1399 01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:05,760 It's all good. So all right, Anthony. 1400 01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:07,560 Well, again, I appreciate you hopping on. 1401 01:04:07,880 --> 01:04:09,920 I loved learning a little bit more about your journey. 1402 01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:14,240 And I hope that maybe maybe in the middle of the year, check 1403 01:04:14,240 --> 01:04:16,320 back in with you, see how you're doing, see how you're hitting 1404 01:04:16,320 --> 01:04:18,800 your goals and what's going on for your YouTube channel. 1405 01:04:18,800 --> 01:04:20,840 So I appreciate it. Let me see. 1406 01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:27,000 Thank you so much for having me on.