Hello everybody, welcome to this episode of the Disc Golf Answer
Man. I'm Bobby Cool Daddy, Slick
Breeze, and this is a disc golf interview episode with Anthony
Badanza, otherwise known as Badanza Disc Golf.
We get into a really great conversation about how we got
started in YouTube, how we got started doing disc golf content,
What are his goals for disc golf content and what is are his
goals for the professional side, the competitive side at disc
golf. So let's jump right into it.
All right, Anthony, how are you doing today?
Pretty good. How are you?
I'm doing, I'm doing fantastic. I appreciate you offline.
Right before we started talking, you tell me how you're busy, how
busy your life is going. So I appreciate you taking the
time to be able to hop on the show and allow me to get to know
you a little bit better, allow our audience to get to know you
even more. So I know they're all you're
familiar with you. When I told people I was
interviewing you for the show, everyone was like, oh, awesome.
I, I can't wait to learn more about him.
I love his stuff. So I'm sure everybody, everybody
knows about you and I love watching your journey, what's
going on. So I did a little bit of
research on you as far as your disc golf, that you've got 2
disc golf YouTube channels and then you've got another YouTube
channel where it's just Anthony Vadanza where it's been a few
years since you've done things on there.
So. Tell me a little bit.
When you first started creating videos, what, what pulled you
into, well, actually what pulled you into actually creating
videos and getting on YouTube in the first place?
Yeah, I think honestly, it's kind of one of the things where
the passion followed like a different motivation.
So like I saw I was like seeing Youtubers when I was in middle
school and high school. I'm 27 now.
So this is like mid teens, like 20 teens.
And I was like, oh, that's a sweet lifestyle.
Like it was so much less of like, oh, I want to make videos.
Like I didn't grow up with a camcorder in hand.
I was always somewhat creative and more so like business minded
than creative always growing up. My dad owns his own stuff and
and so I was, I was like, that's a cool lifestyle.
I want to live like that. And so I started trying to make
videos and I think I had even before the ones you talked about
345 channels that I just started and stopped.
It kind of failed. And I've been doing stuff ever
since like late middle school. And then eventually when I
realized, hey, I want to like make videos specifically more
about like personal finance stuff and like business, which
is what the Anthropia channel was and maybe eventually return
to who knows. But then I started wanting to
get better at making videos. So it was much more like I want
to do this for an external motivation, which is like living
life kind of on my own terms, not having to like having a
little overhead. There's a lot of businesses that
I was like, I'd like to work for myself, but there's so many
things that had a lot of overhead or a lot of like
knowledge that was pre required. So something like YouTube, you
could just kind of get started and figure it out along the way.
And as I got better at making videos and saw a little bit of
success, it's one of those things where I really truly
believe, like follow your passion.
I think sometimes the passion comes after you try something
because the better you get it, something more passionate you
get. Like the better I got disc golf,
the more passionate I got, the better I got making videos, the
more passionate I got about it. So that's kind of where it came
from. It was wanting to live the
YouTube lifestyle, which at the highest level is not something
that I think I'll still ever attain, but it's allowed for a
lot of freedom in what I do. You think that's interesting you
bring up because when I've talked to some young people
before and I you know, I jokingly say, what do you want
to be when you grow up and they're like in their either
teenage years or in their 20s and they say a couple of them
and said, I don't know, maybe be a YouTube.
So it's interesting to see that that's something that someone
can decide to do that be a plumber, be a doctor, be a
journeyman, be, you know, whatever and a Youtubers is part
of that option to go through. That's pretty cool.
What it what is kind of your what are you looking for
creatively? When you started creating
videos, what was what sort of creative direction did you want
to take? It's.
Kind of hard to answer because I, it's, I don't really think I
thought about it in terms of like, how do I want to
creatively express myself before, because I did like, I
never did anything high level, but I did like music.
So I've like played guitar for a while and like played piano for
a while. So like, and I like to sing And
so I would do like music things to more be creatively
expressive. It's kind of funny that you,
I've been asked that question because I hadn't really noticed
it until right now. But the more videos I make, the
less I've like done musically. I hopes that I haven't had a
piano when I lived in a van and we haven't bought 1 and when we
move, we're planning to, but I've just like I pick up my
guitar less than I did before because I just feel like I'm
getting more creatively fulfilled.
But long story, long way to say that I think what I always
thought about creatively was the authenticity.
I'd always, I never wanted to like try to have to act or
perform. I was wanted to just like hope
that I was charismatic enough for people liked me enough for I
was making stuff that was valuable enough with doing it
completely authentically. And so I think that's why I had
like so many things. I never really tried to chase
viral stuff. I would always, I guess one
thing and on my other channel I did like when the stimulus
checks were out, I would like read the legislation about it
and be like, this is what you could expect cuz there are so
many views that were happened through that.
But I was always kind of more creating content of the things
that I did. And so I guess now what I could
say that is something I've thought about for a few years is
I want to like create a business, which YouTube to me is
a business. I run it like one, but I want to
create a business that like serves my lifestyle rather than
kind of the opposite way around. Like I don't want or, or a
business that allows me to live my lifestyle.
So instead of trying to just like make money, however, and
then have a life on the side, I kind of intermingle them both a
lot more than I think most people do.
And most people would maybe even want to because I'll just I
would like to work 506070 hours or so because most of the things
that I'm doing are things that I would want to be doing.
And I understand that like in order to, to do them, as much as
I want to play disc golf, as much as I want to throw as many
new discs as I want to go and like travel as much as I want
to, there's going to like, it's not going to be as like pure of
any of those things as it could be if I just like had a bunch of
money and was able to do them. But the only way that I'm able
to do them is by creating content around it.
So I'm kind of trying to create content that fuels my lifestyle,
if that makes sense. And that's kind of where
creatively I land now. Yeah, I think maybe this is what
I'm hearing is that you don't want to just have a job so that
you can go do things you like doing.
You want to do the things you like doing and then get paid to
do them. Yeah.
And I think in some ways, and to some people, some people who
said this to me, but it kind of like adulterates it in a little
bit, like a little bit. It's like disc golf to me isn't
like this pure thing that I do for fun, trying to like play as
a high level is not like this pure thing that I'm just, I'm
just trying to train to do that. It's all kind of revolves around
each other creating content, trying to GoPro, trying to
review a bunch of discs. And so none of it's like as pure
as it could be, I guess. But I think it's, it's the only
way that I see for it to be possible for me.
And I'm such like a scatterbrained person who needs
to be doing so much that it's the only way that I could see
myself doing. If I, if I could only train for
disc golf, I think I go crazy because I need to be doing more
than just that. So I'd find something else to do
anyway. So might as well just put it all
together into one Amalgamation or abomination might be a better
word. Yeah, when you say it's not the,
the purity is kind of not the same.
What? What do you mean by that?
I guess, I guess like if someone like disc golf to me isn't just
a hobby, like there are a lot of things about disc golf that I
love, but there's some things that like I, I don't love about
what I do, but that's like every job, like every job, you don't
love it. So like it, it in some ways I
think it's, it's more if you let it like this, it can like really
detract from disc golf if you let it.
And I think I did for a lot of this year.
This was like a really hard year for me, both personally and
business wise. And because I commingled them,
it feels like one in the same to me.
It's all like fit together, but I, I feel like disc golf to me
hasn't been since I started my channel and I don't know if
it'll ever will be just like just this fun hobby that I go
and do. If I'm thinking about disc golf,
I'm thinking about content in the business of disc golf.
But to me that's enjoyable and what I like.
So in some senses, like I, I guess I'm trying to think from a
third party perspective, It's like less pure.
I'm not just like I never just like go and throw to have fun or
I do it very, very rarely. There's always like something
else that's going on as well, which is kind of the only way
that's allowed me to kind of do the things I've done in disc
golf, at least I think. And there might be another way
to have done it, but that's the the best path that I've saw that
I took. Yeah, I, I, I, I remember early
on in my disc golf career, as far as working for Dynamic
Discs, people would take, man, you got a dream job.
You're you're around disc golf all the time.
You probably get to play all the time.
You're like, yeah, I could. But there's days where I get off
work and I'm like, I don't want to talk disc golf.
I don't want to do disc golf. I've been doing disc golf all
day and it it took there were sometimes where I had to kind of
regain the love I had for the for the sport to actually go out
and throw. And even then when I go out and
play with my buddy, I have a buddy that we sometimes go on on
Sunday. We just play.
I even my mind, I'm thinking, man, should I have a camera
behind me just in case I get an ace or just in case I get a
great throw with that the new treason or whatever.
So I kind of get that where it's kind of always on your mind, the
two mixing together of this is a job also, this is something I
enjoy doing. So on that, as far as you say
you're sharing your journey, you are documenting your growth in
real time as you try to as you move into, you know,
professional disc golfer. And I believe you did some
series or did some videos on trying to attain a certain
rating and things like that. How?
How did you get comfortable showing all the parts of your
journey? I don't think, I think I was
going to say I don't think I've ever felt uncomfortable with it,
but I think that would not be 100% true.
I think the cost benefit of it was always super positive to me.
Like the cost of sharing it was always going to be there, but it
was so much less than the potential benefit because I saw
it more as like a competitive advantage of like, OK, I'm going
to be able to share everything that I'm doing my whole journey.
Some of it's going to resonate, some of it's not.
There's been a lot of like things that I've shared because
I've committed to sharing so much of it that's been
embarrassing. Like this year, my thing, my
rating went down like 14 points and like, I'm pretty OK with it.
I'm like 978 rated. It's the lowest 7 rated, I think
in like 2 plus years. And like I'm OK with it because
I understand what it is. But I also know that like a
potential cost of sharing stuff is like someone could just look
at that and be like, hold he fell off.
And it's like, yeah, kind of in disc golf.
I definitely did. And like, I know I, I have an
idea of where I can go from here, but I think that cost
always was outweighed by the benefit of sharing of not like
hiding stuff behind a paywall or, or, or not even a paywall,
but just like a, an emotional wall of like not being willing
to share everything. And sometimes that veered into
sharing too much. And so I'm figuring out what
that balance looks like as I continue to evolve and get
better as a, as a creator and just as, and just personally.
But to me it's, it was the comfort wasn't fully there, but
I always knew it was worth it because there wasn't anybody who
was sharing that. Like when I came into like
creating disc golf content there, there wasn't like the MA
one trying to go MPO person who is making content or And so I
was like, OK, well, this is like a niche that I can fill.
And I saw that niche being there.
And it's a very aspirational thing.
I think it's easier to aspire to be a high level MA one or a
local pro than it is to be on the pro tour.
And so to kind of share that whole journey in the hope that
and, and a part of it too, I guess it was also the hope that
one day maybe something does happen.
Maybe I do get a tour card eventually, or I do cash on on a
full Elite series event. And then I have all the way back
from my earliest videos. People are like, Oh my gosh,
like this is crazy. I still get comments all the
times like, Oh my gosh, your form has changed so much because
someone clicks on a video from 2 1/2 years ago or 1 1/2 years
ago. And it's like, yeah, I know it's
kind of crazy. And I'm hoping that someone can
say that about the videos that I'm making now, not only about
my form, but about how I approach this golf and just
continuing to, to get better and pursuing that.
And I always knew that I, I just, I guess I just thought
that authenticity and being vulnerable with those things
would have a, a better return for not only myself, but also
people watching because it's more real and honest than just
trying to hide it and like, pretend like I'm something that
I'm not. And I also am not that good of
an actor. So I couldn't really pretend
that like I was that I wasn't. And I figured if I'm going to
turn the camera on so much, I'm going to share it all.
So. Yeah, no, I love the the
authenticity and the authenticity and the
transparency. It's something that we've always
tried to do at Dynamic Disk when I was here.
And now that I'm back here. And especially it's relevant
nowadays with the advent of AI where we're getting, you know,
fed just super polished looking videos, even though you can tell
they're AI, but they're just going to get better.
But I believe people are going to crave the more authentic
stuff as we continue to get the AI slop.
And that's not to say that AI is not going to be part of what we
do, but the, the slop we're getting, people are going to get
tired of it. So I think I said kudos to you
for, for showing the transparency.
And I think that is something that like you, you want to share
your journey because you want people to relate, but then also
you kind of open yourself up for scrutiny.
So I said, I say keep doing it. So I, I enjoy it myself.
But OK, so let's kind of talk real, real quick more about
content creation. When you plan your videos, not
necessarily the disk reviews, but some of the other other type
videos, what usually sparks an idea?
Is there like a moment on the course or you just see something
and you think, oh, this is a great idea.
And then how do you what, what qualifies it as OK?
I'm going to invest time into making this an actual video.
That's a good question. That's something that I am that
I've especially over the last couple months been investing a
lot more time and even money into like YouTube based coaching
from the creators and other spaces that are not disc golf
that is is helping to like change how I view these things.
I think the idea is the way that I would have decided before is
not what I'm going to say now, because I think the way that I
would have decided before is not always been the best and it's
caused a decent amount of stagnation for the last year and
a half. But I think this even ties into
the, the vulnerability and like the authenticity.
I think that it's super important to know exactly who
I'm making a video for. It's actually the reason why you
said like not, not your disk reviews and your other stuff,
but your stuff. And I'm actually in the new
year. I know this podcast is coming
out pretty soon, so I won't fully divulge anything.
But in, in, in the new year, there's a change that I'm
already like starting to implement that I'll like
finalize and announce that will be, I think pretty beneficial to
my channels, as you said, and also to my audiences.
There's not going to be a little less confusion because I think
what it would be for the longest time was I would just make the
videos that like I have an idea and I'm interested in I make the
video that I wanted to make. And a part of that is because I
would make the video that I want to see.
But what the more that I'm realizing is like I'm not my
audience, like I and I think that's probably to their benefit
that they're not all like me, but I'm not my audience.
So I shouldn't be making the only the videos that I want to
make because there's some things that I think I get like super
deep and niche on and I'm super nerdy about.
And so I'll be like, Oh, let's make this.
And it's just like no one cares. So I think having the filter of
like who is not only like the type of person and like disc
golfer is not a person that you're making a video for.
Because if you even think about the people that you'd see it at
your local piston putt over the course of a day or a week, it's
so varied what a disc golfer is. So if you try to make a video
for a disc golfer, you're actually going to catch nobody.
And I feel like that's what I was trying to do for a while.
I was trying to make videos for myself.
And so now if I have an idea, I, I have no shortage of audiation.
That's kind of easier for me. What's better?
What's more important for me is figuring out how that idea
serves someone that I want to make the video for.
So who's my audience in my audience on the dance at disc
golf is someone who's like disc curious.
So I would used to make like whatever I wanted to do, which
I'm kind of a disc nerd. So like I would I love reviewing
discs. I love talking about like the
shoulder of the disc is different than the Dome and how
the the wing and the height and how all that affects stuff.
And most people don't care. So I'd like people would click
through and just watch you throw the disc and have fun with your
buddies. And what I realized is like
that's a lot of disc golf and the majority of disc golf.
And it's two different people, like someone who's a really
nerdy about this and someone who just like maybe he doesn't even
play disc golf but is curious about it.
They like sports, they like seeing cool things done and they
like banter from friends. And so like the person who's
who's that person? It's a different video that I
would make even about the same thing.
If I'm so for instance, like I just put out a video, I'm going
to be putting out a video today after I'm done with this with
the Luna Battle packs. And I was, I was thinking, OK,
like we got to talk about the rings and all this stuff.
And I realized the person I'm making this video for just wants
to see me go and battle a buddy who's really obsessed with
Lunas. And so you can come out on top
and there's a ton of banter. And so I didn't focus on like,
these are the flight numbers and this is what the rings do.
And it's like they're two different discs.
So we talked about the fact that they're different discs, but we
don't need to get into the weeds of like, OK, what's the science
behind why this could be different?
Because the vast majority of the audience that I'm going for
there doesn't care. And so I think figuring out
exactly who the person that I'm making the video for is and then
running every single piece of packaging for the video.
So the title and thumbnail so that it relates to something
that they would be interested in.
And then delivering on the promise, the title and
thumbnail. And then also continuing to keep
them entertained and engaged with what they want to see is
how I kind of run through kind of my ideation filter.
So I have a lot of ideas all the time.
And more and more recently I've been thrown out more and more
ideas because I'm like, this is I care about this, but like, I
don't know how to put this in a way that other people would
care. So I'm not going to make it.
And I think it's, it's good to start out by making stuff that
you're interested in because you need a lot of reps, You need to
figure out exactly what you need to make.
But if you can kind of point those reps in a direction that's
a little more succinct and a little more clear, I think you'd
likely do better. If you know exactly like, OK,
this is the idea that I have. It came up to me, however.
And if you need to find ideas, there's plenty of ways to find
ideas, But it's easier to find ideas if you know exactly who
you're making videos for, because then you go and look at
stuff that they're interested in and then you make videos that
are that they would be interested in.
And so if you're creating content, I think figure out
exactly who you're making it for and then making sure that every
part of their experience with your brand on whatever channel
it is, whether it's Instagram, TikTok, or YouTube, it's
something that they're interested in so that the title
and thumbnail match something that they're intrigued by.
And then you deliver on that and the content and the content
itself doesn't like bore them because it's, you're talking
about something that you're interested in, which is
something that I do all the time as someone who like, likes to be
authentic and talk a lot. And I realize like authenticity
and vulnerability. Going back to that conversation
is not sharing everything. It's, it's sharing the things
that make sense for the audience to care about.
And that doesn't mean that like, because inherently, like I'm
only showing my disc golf self, like I don't share a lot about
my family, not because I don't care or like, not because it's
not important, but because like the people who are watching my
disc golf videos, they might care because they care about me,
but they care about me playing disc golf and my family doesn't
play disc golf with me. So like, I'm not going to,
that's not an important part of that.
There might be stories where that that does happen, but you
don't need to share all of yourself to be authentic.
It's just I think more about not hiding the things that do relate
to the, to the audience that you're trying to, to capture and
figuring out first who that audience is and that, and that's
kind of the framework that I'm leading myself down and still
have a long way to go because I do think I would think about
this lot recently. I think disc golf content
creation, myself included, is pretty easy to get stagnant
because you're just making content for disc golf and that's
just too broad. But in some ways it's too broad.
In some ways it's too niche because if you're making stuff
for disc golf, you're going to speak the language too much.
Like you're going to talk about flight numbers and Heiser and
Anheuser. And like if my wife watches
those videos with me, I've been having her watch my videos with
me and like critiquing my intros and outros and like some key
points to be like, I don't care about this.
Like, I don't know what this means.
Like I live with you. You've been doing disc golf full
time for three years. Like, I don't know what this
means. And so it's like, OK, well,
that's not going to go in the in the in the video for the person
who's just curious because the person who just likes playing
disc golf with their buddies at the local pitch and Putt also
doesn't care about flight numbers and Heiser and Anheuser
in the same way. So how do you talk about it in a
way that is understandable to them so that when those words do
get brought up, they have a translatable like language or
image to bring to it? So that's what I'm trying to
figure out. And a long roundabout way to say
that I think the ideas need to flow through who you're making
the videos for. And ideas can come from
anywhere, but if you need to find them, I think it's still
best to figure out who you're making the videos for first.
And if you don't even want to get to that level, just make
videos that you would want to watch because there aren't
enough people who are like you. And I got pretty far and then
stagnated at a point of making videos that I would want to
watch. And so I, I don't think it's a
bad thing, but I think where I'm at is trying to evolve to that
next point where it's not about me, it's about my audience
fully. And I think that if you can
start there, you can go much faster and further than I have
in the time that I have. So that's those are just my
general thoughts. Wow, you talked touched on a lot
of things that I want to dive into.
No, that's no, I no, yeah, from your videos, you can tell you
like to talk So but that's good. That's good.
You need to be able to talk on on video for sure.
But no, something I want to touch base on to get your
thoughts on is you talked about the disc golf audience or or for
technically the disc golf demographic, right where it's
always been a thing. And I think Seth was on, I don't
remember what podcast he was on, but he.
Had mentioned that, you know, people don't understand that the
die hard disc golfer, the guy that like knows all the flight
plates, everything but parting line and the he follows the disc
golf pro tour every event that represents a small portion of
what's happening out there as far as disc golf.
They don't realize that the casual guy, the guy that doesn't
even the buddy I play with, he doesn't, he don't, he doesn't
care who's playing the next disc golf pro tour.
He doesn't care where the next stop is he, but he has a full
bag. He's got a cart, a full bag of
discs. He's got, you know, dirt bags.
He's got a retriever. He's got it all right.
He's buying new discs and and things like that.
So, but he could care less about and that's not to disparage the
disc golf pro tour. I think they're doing great
things. I think that's an important
component of our sport. But what are your thoughts on
that as far as like the the people coming off and saying we
got it, we got to invest the disc golf pro tour where it
sounds like you're going for more the audience of like, like
you said, disc curious. In other words, I just happened
to someone gave me a disc. I saw a basket at a local park.
Maybe I'll try this disc golf thing out.
It sounds like that's who you kind of want to talk to.
So what would you say to the people that say that that's not
the important people we need to reach out to?
I think neither. I think both of them just have
different focuses. I don't think there's like a
right and wrong and I think so much of it depends on what the
goal is. If the goal is to grow disc golf
as a professional sport, then investing in the pro tour makes
a lot of sense. If the goal is to grow the disc
golf playing base, then the pro tour is much less important for
that goal. So I think figuring out like
what the goal is and I think having, I think it's, it's
always, it's almost always better to, especially in a
smaller sport where it's easy for like there to be a lot of
cohesion because everyone wants to like be buddy, buddy, which
is a good thing. And like collaborate in a lot of
ways. Those are all good things.
But I think having disparate ideas where there are going to
be people in high levels in the sport who have resources and
connections and know how, who are really focused on the
professional side. And there are also people who
are like, they're not quite butting heads, but there's,
there's like a spirited like debate of like, no, this is
important. No, this is important.
Both of those things, if there's a spirited debate and like
they're trying to figure it out, will grow because a rising tide,
disc golf as a whole will lift all shapes.
And so getting more people in the player base will get more
people interested in the Pro Tour.
Getting more people interested in the Pro tour can reach out to
people who are interested in professional sports and maybe
get them into playing disc golf because ultimately someone
doesn't need to play disc golf to watch the Pro tour.
There are plenty of people in other sports where that's the
case. And so I think they're
ultimately just kind of two different avenues that people
can go down. But overall, one of the thoughts
I've had a lot about this golf is I think this golf as a whole,
I'm very complicit in this. I think creators, companies,
everything. I think this golf as a whole has
been so inwardly focused for a while where there's a pie and
everyone's trying to eat a little bit more of the pie and
figure out how to enable a little bit more on the pie
that's already here versus trying to take their same slice
and just grow the whole pie. Because especially if the pie
grows like your every little bit, it's like more ex.
It's like exponential or geometric growth.
I'm not that big of a math nerd to fully know that in terms of a
pie chart. But if the whole pie expands
every little bit that expands your portion of it expands more
because there's a larger volume as that arc gets wider and wider
and wider as the pie grows. And I think what I'm wanting to
do is try to, to focus at least one of my channels on that kind
of much wider, like let's try to grow the pie a little bit, even
if it's just and, and, and it's the type of thing where it's
like, if I do grow the pie a little bit by getting a couple
more people interested in disc golf, that might not translate
to the pro Tour. Like it's not, it's not going to
be 1 for one. I don't think it's going to be,
I think it'll be some sort of direct correlation.
Like if 1000 new people are interested in disc golf, maybe
10 of them are interested in the Pro Tour.
And at that point it's a conversion thing for the Pro
Tour. And so that's where both of them
work together is if people are focused on growing the grass
roots, then if someone gets into disc golf, then they realize,
oh, there's a professional side of this.
Then the pro tours out when people trying to grow that are
trying to capture those people who now have interest to make
them fans. And so it's both sides of the
pendulum, People who are interested in, oh, wow, this is
a professional sport, this is cool.
Oh, maybe I want to actually try to play.
Where can I buy the discs? And so it's, I think it's both
of them. And I think having people on
different sides of the issue who are not just talking about it,
but actively working towards it, but also talking about it, I
think having that combination can can help burgeon the growth
a decent bit better. But I think focusing less on
everyone is already in disc golf and more on staying like top of
funnel is how I think about it. Like you want to say like, I
want to make most of my content top of funnel.
I don't want to niche down into like, OK, This is why I throw
anheuser versus heiser versus whatever.
I can do that in the content. But I think in the in the
packaging, which like the title and thumbnail is the marketing
for people watching my videos in my marketing pieces.
I don't want to get too deep into it.
I want people who might just be curious to get into it and then
be like, well, I didn't know all this was impossible with the
disc at the end of the video or like, oh, this is cool, but I
don't care. So I'm going to leave.
But maybe they're interested enough to watch something and
then it pops up again and again. So I don't know what that's
going to look like, but that's what I'm going to be focusing on
a lot moving forward on Bonanza. Disc golf is trying to stay
pretty top of funnel and if people get interested or not,
great. But I want to try to focus on
growing the pie rather than just trying to cannibalize a little
bit more of it, which I think has been, which makes sense in a
contraction like disc golf. There's been a contraction in
the growth. I don't think there's a
contraction overall, but like there's been like there's been a
contraction in growth. Growth has definitely slowed and
there probably has been a little bit smaller.
And so it's easier at that point to look inside because you can
you can put out fires and you can manage losses much easier
than trying to still pursue growth.
But I think where disc golf is going to grow again is by going
back to pursuing growth, even when growth doesn't come easily,
because growth came easily in the pandemic.
Like it was something that it just kind of grew, not because
people in disc golf did anything particularly special, but
because of the circumstances of the world.
And that's something that we capitalize on and that's great.
But I think it's going to be harder and slower growth, but I
think it's still possible to have that growth if we focus on
really expanding the pie rather than just looking internal.
It's not bad for companies to have competition internal of
disc golf, but I think the focus has been 8020 internal and it
needs to be 8020 external is kind of my thought.
So to that point, I, I think that was a great answer because
yeah, it's it's, it's really where your focus is.
But but to your point, as far as disc golf, do you think we've
hit the low, the low point because it is kind of like, you
know, we were growing, growing COVID boom and then we're slowly
going down. And it's like, are we have we
hit the bottom yet in a sense that not hit the bottom where
we're dead, but hit the bottom where now we can start slowly
back the growth and not compare it to the pandemic.
That's hard to say. I think there's, I think like
the market of disc golf, the market overall, like there's
just too many factors that, you know, contribute to it to say
like, and I'm also like, not Nostradamus.
Like these are opinions that I'm having that I'm going to like
actively work towards and try to pivot quickly if I'm wrong,
because I'm very, I could all everything I said in this whole
call could be wrong and that's fine.
Like I want to, I want to try and I'd rather be like moving
because you can move a ball much more than you can.
Like if there's no inertia, you can't really move it.
But if you're moving down the path, you can always spot it one
way or the other. I would hope, I would hope that
that people can kind of reorient and companies and and disc
golfers and pros can reorient their expectations.
But it's kind of hard when there's still such a recent
recency of big contracts, big money.
Like all this stuff happening. It's easy to look back on like
this is what things were. Let's try to get back there.
But getting back there involves a Black Swan event essentially.
Like it's something that is super unlikely to happen again.
And So what is not getting back there, but getting there again
look like, like instead of looking backwards and seeing
what did we do that made that happen where it probably was
more external forces that created like the opportunities.
How can we move forward in a way that is going to help us grow?
And maybe not the same rate, but I think it just what one of
things it's been, it's been for me is figuring out how to, as
things have changed and adjusted and I became a dad and had to
like really drastically lower how much I was able to work as I
watched my daughter a lot during the week.
It was really hard for me for a long time.
And and then I just kind of tried to reorient my
expectations a little bit. I was like, well, this is what
it is now. Like I can keep trying to go
back to what it was and just try to fit this new thing in.
But like, this is just the reality now.
And so how do we move forward? And I think it's less of did we
hit the bottom and more of are companies willing and are like,
is disc golf as a whole and companies and pros and like
everything, are we all willing to just like be like, OK, well,
this is the new baseline. Instead of like we got to get,
we got to get back there. Because I think that that type
of desperation, which I've had with like views before and like
you start to do stupider things. Like if my views are going down,
you just start to be a little Dumber where it's like, oh,
well, what's this? What's this new trendy thing
that I can do just to get back there?
Because you're focused on getting back there versus like,
well, this is kind of where I'm at.
So how do we move forward? I think it's an acceptance of
where things are that will allow disc golf as a whole to move
forward. And I think a part of that
acceptance is people who are like actively doing things in
order to like help themselves and help this golf as a whole.
There's just like some noise that you need to not listen to.
That's what I've realized a lot is like a lot of like the people
are like, oh, I thought he fell off or like I thought like I was
like, Oh, you got so much versus like those things can be true
and like that's OK. And like I, it's easy to get
emotional about them because you want to feel defensive, But I've
always done best when I don't get defensive by those things.
And just like it's really hard for me.
I'm, I'm very easily like easy to get defensive about it.
But when I don't allow myself to and I'm just like, OK, I'm not
going to worry about that. I'm just going to keep working
and moving forward. And like, this is where things
are now And let's like see how we can make it better.
That's I think that's my prognosis of like what needs to
happen in disc golf. And it's kind of unfortunate
because you do look back on the good old days like it's like,
man, I, I made a lot of money that month or like, man, this
year was so good for us in terms of sales.
It's like sweet, that can be true.
But you can also be where you are now and you kind of have to
accept it. Otherwise it's really hard to
move forward if you're just trying to look backwards to get
back to where you were. I feel like it's really hard to
effectively move forward because I don't think consumers, an
audience, like consumers in terms of like dynamic or other
businesses or audience in terms of me.
Like they're not dumb. Like they can tell what they can
smell when you're desperate and like you're just trying to get
something done and like trying to get back to somewhere versus
like, OK, this is what it is. Like let's move forward and
like, let's do it together. Like I think trying to really
focus on the top of funnel things, adjusting how I'm
attacking my content in the new year.
And, and I think it'll make sense to people, at least I'm
hopeful. Maybe it won't, but I'm hopeful
that it will because it's something that in my mind is
going to be serving them better because I'm focused on what they
need more so than like I need to make this amount of money.
So I need to figure out how to do that.
This last month, I've really, I've shifted my focus.
I'm glad we had this conversation this month instead
of a month or two ago because there's been so much like, like
personal shifts in growth that I've had to happen with this
move coming up. And a part of that has been
instead of like, oh man, I, I need to make this type of, I
need to make this amount of money this month.
So I'm just going to do what I've all, I'm going to make it
this many videos and just trust it because that's what worked
for me before. Now it's like, how am I going to
focus on making the best video possible, giving each video a
little bit of time to breathe, which I'd never, I would always
try to post 20 or 30 * a month. And now I'm going to post 10 to
15 like this month. And I think I'm going to
actually for the first month in about 6 months, get back to the
ad revenue that I was making six months, 6 to 18 months ago, like
that whole time period because I finally was like, this is what
it is. Let's move forward.
And I, I think I'm trying to speak a little bit more from
like things that have worked for me that hopefully translate to
other people. But it's really helped me to be
like, well, this is what it is. Instead of like, OK, how do I
just like what, what are the things that I've done that have
worked? And I think that's where I felt
that desperation. And I posted videos and I've
been like, I hope people don't see how like desperate this
feels. And then like the video doesn't
do well. And I'm like, why did it do
well? And it's like every like people,
audiences, consumers, they're not dumb.
Like they understand what's going on and they can smell it.
And like, if something is for my interest, not their interest, I
don't, I don't think that's hard to find.
And I think there's a mix where it's like it's always going to
be on a, on a dimmer of like, it's not all one or all the
other. There has to be like a it's for
them and for me. But I think when it one skews so
much farther towards me and like, I need to make money from
this, I need to make this happen.
It's pretty palpable. I don't think.
And I I don't, I don't especially over the long term.
Like if it's something that you're wanting to do over the
long term, I don't think that trying to chase the the money
that'll be quick, that'll get you back to where you were is
the right move. I think trying to find what's
sustainable strategy for this is like, let's instead of like,
like your question finally getting back to it.
Jesus, your question of like, do I think this is the floor?
I think that it's the floor. If we acknowledge that it's the
floor. If we don't acknowledge that
it's the floor and we're still looking backwards on like this
is what it was, we got to get back there, then it might not be
the floor. But I think if we acknowledge
like this is where things are. And I, this is where I have to
commend the pro tour. I think they've done a pretty
good job of this where it's like purses have gone down and there
hasn't been like, I mean, I haven't been watching a lot of
like social media or YouTube at all for the last couple months.
I just have had so little time. But I haven't, it hasn't seemed
to me like in their press releases and the little things
that I've seen that like they've been like insanely apologetic or
like anything crazy about like, oh, I'm so sorry.
Like this used to be so much more.
And it's not that anymore. It's like this is the purse and
like next year's like we're going to do double S and it's
like we're trying, they're trying to move forward and
figure things out and like this is where we are.
Let's move forward. Let's stop trying to look
backwards. Let's look forward and the
forward it. We might never get back to where
we were, but we might surpass it way quicker if we acknowledge
that this is the floor or this could be the floor and figure
out like how do we make it that? Like how do we make this our
foundation rather than how do we try to scramble to get to where
we used to be? Those are too many thoughts.
Yeah, no, that's OK. Let's let's kind of switch gears
a little bit. Let's talk more on the disc golf
side. As far as the competition side,
what has any of those goals shifted for you as far as your
play? Yeah, yes, yes and no, kind of.
I think yes, compared to early this year, No, compared to the
long run, I think so. It's kind of interesting.
So I started playing disc golf 2022 in January.
So it's been almost four years now and I set this goal when I,
I start my channel in May of that year, May or June or it was
June and I set I set this goal of like, I want to cash at a pro
tour. So I did my first MA one
tournament. I like was vlogging that.
And then I've I've like vlogged everything up to there.
And then the Kansas City wide open was a silver series in like
2023 or something. Yeah, and I like I cashed at it
And then like, I kind of like lost.
I was like, OK, well, that was a big goal.
And even though it wasn't a true pro tour event, I wasn't doing
that much more. I was still like in the van.
And so I was like, well, that's fine.
And so I, I instead of like continuing to try to push to the
next goal, I was focused on like, Oh, my contents doing
fine. So like, I'm going to focus on,
on this a lot. And and then I did get a decent
bit better, but my progress kind of stalled a bit.
And then this last year in 2024, I started like paying for a
trainer and was like working on my body a lot.
And that was that went pretty well.
But then earlier this year, I like went to the Kansas City
wide open. I was trying to do everything.
I was trying to make all my videos.
I was trying to train all the time.
I was trying to be a great pro and I basically like been
working like the offseason for me sometimes like that.
That last offseason was kind of like my on season because I was
like, I'm just going to post so much and I'm still going to
train. It's the offseason.
Then I got to Kansas City wide open.
This is my first big tournament of the year and I just like was
so burned out and played so bad and like didn't care and I
really hated that I didn't care. And so ultimately it took like a
lot of the rest of this year to figure out like, what do I want
to happen professionally? Because a part of that was like,
I, I have a one month old or a one year old who was born August
of 2024. And so that just changes your
whole entire life. And I don't think I fully
acknowledge like what that would mean.
And so now it's, it's changed the goals, but more so the
timeline and the intensity for which they're important.
Because to me, I like, if I have like this big nebulous goal, it
feels important to like solve it and figure it out.
And so like trying to get a tour card or cash on the tour, I felt
like I was so much further away from that than like some of my
like creator goals. And so I would put the creator
goals a little bit more to the wayside or like set them a
little lower so I could focus on the tour goal.
And that's like fun for my inner child who wants to be pro
athlete, but it's not one good for me professionally or my
business. And it's not good because I
want, I mean, we talked about I want to be a YouTube since I was
in like middle school. So like this disco thing just
came up. And so it's like kind of chasing
the new exciting thing. And so the goals have more
morphed into what I kind of believe is a more like mature
version of like, I think the goal ladder is still there of
like cashing out a full E series, trying to get a tour
card, maybe eventually getting into Tour Championship.
Like I would love to like be good enough to do that.
But that used to be like super important for me that that would
all happen. And I would like, I feel like I
was willing to give up so much to make that happen.
And now I'm willing to give up very little to make that happen.
Not that I'm not going to try to make it happen, but because I've
set myself up in a way that I'm a better position than most
people to like really go after it.
Like in the new year, I'm going to my wife's, not my wife's
going to focus more on childcare and helping me with our business
together. I'm going to focus on content
and I'm going to have a lot more time to focus on training.
And my content can help me train because I'm getting access to
the best players in the world and coaching and like all the
stuff that's like, I have incredible opportunity here.
But I used to like almost be willing to give it all up
because I was, I like needed to be pro.
And I think a part of that was like, I set the goal.
And so it was very like, there's a lot of ego in it because it
would feel very disappointing, but also embarrassing to not hit
those goals if I couldn't because I set them pretty
publicly. And what I've come to terms with
over the course of this year as like I did perform pretty poorly
and I did all right. I got like 50th at, at elite
event in Cascade Challenge or Portland OR something to like
50th and 60th. I was playing pretty decent for
those stretches. And then I played really bad at
like the Creator's Cup and, and the Des Moines Challenge or just
being a challenge. And it made me realize like this
to me needs to be my fun hobby in disc golf, like trying to
train a GoPro. I want to work really hard at it
because anything that I want to do, I want to work really hard
at. But I need to figure out what am
I willing to sacrifice for this goal.
And just the answer turned out to be not a lot to me.
Content creation is all is always going to be first.
And I think for a lot of 2024 and early 2025, it was pretty
far second because it was a solved science to me.
I knew if I posted this much I would make this much money and
I'd be fine like and so. That became like, OK, now I just
got to focus on training. And then it's like, well,
actually your daughter needs a lot of more energy than you
thought. And, and also like if you're
phoning in your content, your content's going to feel like
it's phoned in. So people aren't going to so
like you're going to be on a little steady decline.
And So what I realized is like for me, it's always going to,
it's going to be content first. But I think that goal ladder of
those things I talked about first, cashing out an elite
event is important. But it also means that like for
instance, next year, my focus is going to be so much more local,
which I think is what everyone advised me to do anyways.
But because I had the opportunity to go and play the
bigger events because I could swing it financially, because I
can make videos out there and like just make it work.
I would go and do those versus like next year, it's like, well,
let's save some money. Let's figure out what this looks
like with my wife not working full time anymore.
Let's play as much locally as I can and try to get as good as I
can and win a bunch of stuff hopefully.
And like see what happens. And I think always before is
like, I'm going to be a pro. And now I'm like, let's see what
happens. And I think that that for me,
because I can trust my work ethic and trust like the
foundation I've already laid, is a higher likelihood of success
than trying to force it. Because I feel like I won't let
as much go to the wayside and I will actually do the things that
are either harder or more embarrassing or, or like require
a little bit less ego to do. Because now it's I'm not my
whole like ego isn't tied to like whether or not I'm going to
be a pro. But I still think like I would
like to at least have a couple years in my career down the road
where I do try to have a full tour and just again, see what
happens. But I think I would try to force
it and be like, I'm going to get good enough on the road.
And then I just have a lot of time blindness and didn't know
like what would actually take. And now it's like, let me be a
little more methodical and slow. Like all this is all I'm talking
about slow growth. And whenever I've pursued slow
growth, the growth has been much faster than the slow growth that
I've wanted. Like I was when I started my
YouTube channel in disc golf, I wanted slow growth.
I was like, let's just try to make some videos.
I'll still make stuff on my other channel and like, we'll
figure this out over time. And within six months, I was
making full time income. And so it's just like I feel
like pursuing slow growth unfixes my mind.
I feel like I have a fixed mindset for the most part.
If I'm really trying to pursue a goal and I have to get it.
If I'm like, this is a cool goal, let's try to make it
happen. I feel like I have a growth
mindset. I'm very open to all feedback
and opportunities from from everywhere and different ways of
making it happen. If I've if I am trying to pursue
the goal, I'm very good at visualizing what it takes to get
somewhere, but I'm not going to straying from that once it's
become super important for me to get to that goal.
And so I feel like I would listen less to like the pros
that I would interact with, the coaches that interact with that
I could have actually gotten more benefit from if I would
have been more open to what they say.
Because I had this idea of how I was going to make it happen.
And the idea of how I'm going to make.
And, and, and any time that I've had an idea of how I'm going to
make something happen, it's gone worse than if I've just let it
happen and tried really hard. I feel like trying hard and
putting a lot of effort into it is much more important than
doing it on the terms that I set out to do.
And so that's been the biggest shift for me since I set that
goal a while ago. And when I set the initial goal
of cashing at the at the proto event, that's where I was.
I was like, I'm going to figure out, I'm going to figure it out.
And and then I did and I casted like the and I was kind of
confused because it was like a silver event.
So it didn't really count, but I was like, OK, maybe it kind of
counts. And I was like, OK, sweet, I did
it. And so I'm like, now I'm good or
now I'm good enough and like, now I can figure it out and I
know what I'm doing. And it's like, no, I got like,
don't change the thing that I did to get there, which was just
taking in a bunch of feedback, not having an ego attached to it
and really trying hard. And instead I'm like, OK, well,
I'm fine now. So I'll just, it'll just happen.
It's like that's not how anything works.
Yeah, you definitely don't have. You definitely have to figure
out how to not attach your ego to it too much.
Or another way of saying it, you've got to build a thick skin
for sure, especially as you're putting yourself out there.
Cuz you know. Everybody makes goals, right?
We make goals in our life. Sometimes we achieve those
goals, sometimes we don't. And, and not that many people
know, right? They may not know, but when
you're putting it out there, you know, all your viewers know.
And yet again, like I said before, opens yourself up for
people to scrutinize it and stuff like that.
But, but it's, it's all good. And I love to hear that you have
your, it sounds like what you've, you've learned from what
you've put out there and the goals you put for yourself.
And then you've learned to kind of make sure that you are
working toward the right goal. So I think that's great.
So OK, so we're almost out of time because I want to be
respectful of your time. So just some quick questions.
What, what for you? And you maybe alluded to it a
little bit, but what what keeps disc golf fun for you?
How do you how do you make sure that it's, even though it's your
job, even though it's something you love doing, but in the back
of your mind, do you think this is what I needed?
To do to make sure that disc golf's still fun.
All right, I'm going to commit to one minute answers from here
and out. That way you can answer
questions. Man, I, that is, I need a timer.
Actually, if I'm honest, I almost never think about like,
let me make sure that this is fun because to me, I, I find
like sad I, I try to find satisfaction a lot of times.
And satisfaction also always comes from like seeing a seeing
results from something that you're doing.
And so like if I am making a video and it's doing well,
that's great. If I'm learning a new disc and
trying to get better, it's great.
But I think when disc golf is most fun for me is when I'm
actually trying to like learn how to be better.
And so working on my form is something I haven't been doing a
lot. But ultimately that's like when
it's most fun. I think disc golf baseline is
just always super fun. I think the biggest deal for me
is keeping my expectations low for like I and my expectations
meaning like that fixed mindset of like, I have to get this,
like if I have to cast it at an event or if I have to win or if
I have to get this many views on a video, that's when stuff
becomes less fun. But if I just kind of let it be
what it is, I feel like I've set myself up in a way that my
life's pretty fun, if I'm honest.
There's a lot of work, but it's also like I get a lot of
satisfaction from it. So it's pretty fun.
Nice. What's OK?
Real quick last question. What's if people only take one
thing away from your journey so far?
What? What should it be?
I think the first thing that comes to mind is that like
you're, you're never done and you always, if you can always
keep a headspace of like trying to get better, then you'll win.
I always, I try to think about it as better, not best, because
best is comparative. Like I'm comparing myself to
you, I'm comparing myself to other creators.
I'm comparing myself to pros like if I'm trying to be the
best, but if I'm just trying to be better, I'll probably get way
closer to being the best than if I focus on being the best.
So trying to get trying to always improve and grow.
And when I've stagnated and when stuff has gone downhill or, and
it's always been when I'm like, I need to be making this much
money or making this many videos or doing this instead of like,
how can I learn to be better at my craft or at my game?
And those are the things that I think are more important.
Yeah, I totally agree. Completely agree.
All right, Well, Anthony, again, I appreciate you hopping on here
and sharing some of your journey and answering your questions.
Where can people? I know most people know, but
just in case, where can people follow your journey on YouTube
and other channels? I think mostly YouTube's Bonanza
Disc Golf and then I have a second channel right now called
Banana Froff that might be changing sometime in the near
future. But and then Instagram,
Appadanza disc golf, Facebook, YouTube, I think I'm or Tiktok.
I'm kind of everywhere. But I wanted to ask Bobby
because this is this is disc golf answer, man.
After all, not disc golf asker man.
You might need to change the name of the podcast.
I'm intrigued about kind of your thoughts as someone who's very
inside of disc golf, inside of a disc golf company that has been
acquired and is going on undergoing a lot of
restructuring and things have been a little crazy.
And what are the brands and what's important?
How do you see where disc golf is right now and what it can be
doing best to grow from your perspective?
Because I feel like I shared a lot.
I'm pretty intrigued. And also not only like inside of
the manufacturing space, but I talked a lot about the business
side of things where I'm just a solo creator who kind of has a
business. I was just in in like what we
could be doing as creators to help continue to grow this
board. That's a great question.
So what do I think about a disc? It's interesting.
I'm I've only been away for from disc golf or from Dynamic Discs
for four years. But what the biggest thing I
found was when I heard I was coming back, when I the idea of
coming back to Dynamic Discs, I started doing research on what's
happening on social media. You came up, Jay Miley, came up,
Silas Broderick, all these different.
And the biggest thing I noticed the shift was it felt like what
was happening outside of disc golf when it came to YouTube
content creation, the creator economy as they call it, where
you know, young people are going to actually not just make
YouTube videos just for the fun of it, they're going to actually
make this a career. It was cool to see that it was
happening in disc golf. So that got me super excited.
And then when I got back to die, then when I actually started
working the dynamic disc, I started realizing that like disc
golf was still kind of on its way down from the pandemic.
When I left it was like. We were still selling out of
discs. We couldn't keep discs in the
warehouse. And I was I when I left, I was
like, I'm crazy for leaving because right now it's like
crazy. As far as what you guys can do
to help, I say I love what you're saying.
As far as like not chasing the virality, not trying to be the
best, but just trying to improve yourself.
I say, I would say continue to share your journey so that
people that want to connect, that want to that enjoy your
journey, that can relate to your journey.
And then the commonality you have of the love of disc golf,
they're going to gravitate to you, right?
Not everybody's going to like your style.
Not everybody's going to like how you do it, how you tell your
story, but I truly believe enough people will enjoy it that
you'll be able to do what you want to do within disc golf and
within YouTube. That was one of the things when
I first started that dynamic disc, that's what my goal was.
I was just, my whole thing was, I'm just going to share our
journey. I'm going to show what happens
behind the scenes. I just wanted you along for the
ride. When someone would come up to me
and they'd say, oh, my gosh, Bobby, I know this sounds weird,
but I feel like I know you. I feel like I could go hang out
with you at a bar and have a beer and we'd be friends.
I think, yeah, that's kind of what I was trying to do.
I was just the guy that liked disc golf and loved being on
video and love sharing the story.
So I would say we need more people like you that are just
sharing their journey. And disc golf happens to be
another common string between you and your audience.
It is kind of, and it is this kind of a thing that I try to
teach our players. You know, there is kind of a lot
of it feels like, I don't know if you feel it, maybe I'm in a
weird bubble, but it feels like people downplay the importance
of social media and and content creation as far as what players
need to do. Like there's this whole battle.
They need to concentrate on being a pro player, which I
totally get, but they also need to the state that disc golf is
in right now. They need to also realize the
importance of using media to help them accomplish their disc
golf goals. So, but I don't know that is
that something you kind of feel or you see from from what you
see out there as far as the player versus being a pro
player? If he's versus, you know, it, it
feels like Simon's the anonymous, the the outlier.
You know, he's a great disc golfer, but he's also a great
content creator. Yeah, I can.
I definitely see that. I think there's, I think that
makes sense with an understanding of like what this
golf could be. And I think that's similar to I
feel like from a pro players perspective, which I don't have
because I'm content creator by far 1st.
And that was pretty intentional When I learned about disc golf
and like wanted to make stuff, I was like, oh, maybe I can go pro
like 'cause like this is a sport that's like easier to go pro.
And then a lot of other sports 'cause I got started when I was
24 and it's like it's potentially there impossible.
But I was always like, let me make sure that the money's good
first because I know like the contracts might not be there
forever. Let me make sure that like I
have, I'm providing enough value that I can do this for the long
term because it's a short term game.
If you're relying only on like other people or other companies.
And similar to what I was talking about with where your
question about the floor, where my opinion is just that the
floor is there if you let it be, but you need to let it be
instead of looking backwards. I think it's a little bit of a
backwards view. And I say this at being friends
with a lot of pros. I think it's a bit of a
backwards view to think that you don't have to promote yourself
because companies are so spread thin and there's not a lot of
money around in disc golf that you can't stand out by figuring
out like who you're talking to on social media and and
garnering a following. Because it seems to me, and I
don't know this to be the case because I'm not in these back
end conversations at all. But it seems to me like the like
there's a reliance on manufacturers and sponsorships
from pros in order to continue subsisting in disc golf.
And that's a little dissonant with where the market is in disc
golf right now with the ability of manufacturers and other
sponsoring agencies and entities to pay players.
I feel like there's there's not enough money in disc golf right
now for the value that is being created by players for the
manufacturers and other companies.
And I think it's looking backwards a little bit to be
like, well, this is what it was, so I should get this contract.
And it's not quite looking at the current state of things,
which I think there's an opportunity there for the pros
who do realize like what the current state of things is.
And how do you provide value to a manufacturing company as well
as to your audience or your your fan base?
That's what it's called when you're a pro athlete, not an
audience to your fan base. So because frankly, there's just
not like there's a lot of people on tour and there's not enough
for everyone to make like a full time living just based off of
this. The what it seems to be the
manufacturer's pockets right now with how much they need to pay
for their big stuff. And so that's right.
I do agree with you, But I also think that that's, I think right
now we're kind of in the dip of that.
There's a really super tiny book called the Dip by Seth Godin.
It's like 70 pages. I read that in the middle of the
year, like when I was like my most depressed, having the most
like crazy time. And it made me understand, it
made me really feel good about like, yeah, this is kind of
where I'm at. It really sucks.
But also there's like a way out. And a part of that is just like
I I feel like we're in that dip right now for the expectations
of players and expectations of manufacturers.
It feels like they're further apart than they've been in a
long time. And a part of that might be the
transparency of like the manufacturers not wanting to be
like, oh, we're super, we're super down.
We got no money. And like that could and like,
they don't want to tell their players that because the like,
there's not a lot of closed mouths in disc golf.
Like people will talk. And so you don't want to be
like, oh, dude, we, we got no money to pay anybody.
But at the same time that it seems like that's the reality
for a lot of companies, but there's still the expectation of
players that they can get full salaries and not just like deals
that are based on sales. And it seems to me that like it,
it is important to like work really hard.
Your crafted GoPro. But the question to me becomes
like what benefit is there of being like top 25 in the world
versus top eight in the world is a very different place.
But the player who's 25 to wherever I am at 350th, like
probably further down, but where wherever that is like being able
to create something valuable to a manufacturer or company.
It is going to take away from their professional ambitions in
the short term. But I think a long term view is
that they might not have a great 123 seasons, but if they're
providing enough value to the people who are paying them and
to creating value in other ways, I think that their longevity in
the sport will be longer. And so it's you got, I mean,
it's hard thing to balance. I can't I it's hard to get in
those shoes because you do understand like you want to
practice and get to be the best that you can.
But if you can get to be the best that you can with a one
year runway versus A5 year runway, it's might take you
until year 4 to get as good as you could have been in year 1.
And I'm hoping that's the case for me because I'm like on to
year 4. You're coming here soon.
So I'm hoping that can be the case.
But like it might take way longer.
But your runway and your, your ability to do it will be so much
more sustainable. But it's, I mean, it's, there's
so many things that are like, they're not easy problems.
And I think it's easy to talk about them as if they're easy
problems and they're just not. Yeah, it's, it's definitely.
The thing is when I talk to people, it's like, I get it.
It's tough. It's tough trying to be a top
pro player and tough being your own marketing person.
You know, brands are stretched in, they can only concentrate on
so many players and the top players are the ones they're
going to promote, right? I mean, that's just makes sense.
But to also answer your question on the business side, yeah, I
mean, business is good. Is it fantastic?
No, it's not fantastic. It's not fantastic like it was,
but it's still good. Are there days that we meet our
goals? Yes.
Are there days that we fall short?
Yes. But overall business is good.
I wouldn't be here if I didn't feel that way, right?
I, I, I wasn't forced to come back right?
I, I, I took a hard look at it, talked to a bunch of people in
the industry within dynamic disks on the outside of dynamic
disks, because I wanted to get a sense of like, am I just jumping
onto a sinking ship? And I, I'm not.
And so, you know, without getting into, into specifics,
you know, sure, from the outside, I get it, things don't
look good, but it, what breaks my heart is the misconceptions,
the, the perception that people have for not just dynamic discs,
but of the entire House of discs and all the different brands.
I mean, I get what's happening. People feel like we're bleeding
together, but we're not, we're not bleeding together.
We're still trying to maintain the brand identity supper from
each other. But it broke my heart the other
day I was there was a a particular podcast that had put
out about something that had that wasn't looking good for
disc golf. And they kind of concentrated on
House of discs. And someone made a comment on
the on the video and said if House of Discs wants to survive,
they just need to let dynamic disc fail and go away.
Anthony that broke my heart, dude.
Like I was talking to my wife and I was almost in tears
because I was part of this brand when it was just a handful of
employees and helped build it to what it is now, right.
And so and it just the part that breaks my heart is people don't
understand that there's still a handful of people here that love
doing what they do. They love the sported disc golf.
Now some people are here because they want to paycheck course
that's that's we need those people.
But the majority of people love the sported disc golf and they
love the brands that they work for and they want to they're do
everyday trying to make the right decisions.
So it succeeds. And yet people are out there
just, you know, which their with their pitchforks.
So that part kind of gets to me. But every day I wake up and I
think I still love this brand. I still love playing disc golf.
I love the sport of disc golf and I love what disc golf has
done for me. So I want to continue to get
back to it. So, but as a business, we're
doing good, business is good and I'm excited for 2026.
We have a lot going on for 2026. And I'm excited about it.
Yeah, I think the perception and you can definitely correct me if
I'm wrong here, but I think the perception comes from most
people will gauge how a company is doing based off of the
contracts that they're able to give to professional players.
And that is not a reliable way of seeing how a company is
doing. And what the, what I said
earlier about like companies not having like we don't have any
money, that was specifically in terms of like some, some
companies might actually be failing, I don't know.
But like, I think a lot of companies are taking a much
harder look at what is actually bringing us and creating like
profits and revenues for us, not just what have we done.
And I think that that in one sense is something that I very
much advocate. I think it's going to be a hard
contraction in the professional sponsorship space, but not
necessarily a contraction in the company's profitability overall.
Because just like you said that Seth had said before, like disc
golf as a whole, like I think in terms of you disc, disc golf is
continuing to grow. Like the sport is continuing to
grow the professional space. The like, that's where there is
that difference and that disparity.
And this sales might be down because people like the sport
might be continuing to grow, but they might be less purchasers.
Like there's a ton of different, there's a confluence of factors
that affects it all, but I think people, the, the bottom line is,
I think people, because this is basically the only way that
they've been able to judge perception because these are all
private companies. They judge the perception based
off of their favorite pros and how much money they're able to
get from the companies. And it seems like companies used
to attribute or maybe not even tribute, they would just throw
money at players because they had growth, not necessarily
because the players themselves were the ones creating that
growth or value. And now it seems like companies
are trying to do a slightly more business prudent move of what is
actually creating that value and how do we put money towards it
while still servicing some sort of sponsorship marketing from
like players. But I just think that that's
where the disparity between manufacturers and players comes.
The the businesses aren't as good as they were during COVID,
which means that they're not like the surplus isn't going
through players. And it seems like there was
surplus money going through players, not necessarily money
that was created by like the the professional player assets that
a company had under their like marketing arm was is kind of my
thought as to where things are, which I think perception wise is
going to hurt companies a little bit.
But I also know that the perception hurt might not be
felt compared to the profitability hurt because
they're selling discs to people, not through their players, which
is why they're dropping their players kind of kind of idea.
So I think, I think there's a smart way to to do it where it
makes sense. But I'm really, yeah, I don't
know what it's going to look like.
But I agree with you that thinking about the long term
deal and figuring out how do how do I market myself a little bit.
And I think in a sense it stinks.
Like in an ideal world, I think companies are doing the
marketing for their players like other bigger companies and other
sports where they have marketing arms that are doing that.
But I just don't think that's quite the world that we live in.
Because like you're the brand manager, marketing director at
Dynamic, you don't have a massive team to be working like
you if there needs to be 1 to 3 dedicated people per disc golf
manufacturer team who are able to actually promote the players
that way. And it's just not the reality.
In an ideal world, it is. And maybe eventually we get to
that point and the players can just be players.
But it's a small enough sport right now that I think the
players, unless they're at the very tippy, tippy top or super
marketable in some way, you have to do a little bit of it
yourself to to give yourself the runway time to really become the
best. But that's coming from me who is
not that great at this golf. So they could take it or leave
it. Yeah, it's, it's weird because
there's a lot of days where I think, man, this is reminiscent
of when I first started where I'm the only content creator,
right? I'm the only one going out there
now. Eric helps me and he does stuff,
but it's like I'm the only one directing this where?
And then at one point it was me, Anthony, Danny, and I wish I had
another girl that was helping us part time.
And so my goal is to get back to that where I have a team working
and promoting and marketing and sharing the journey of Dynamic
Disk. So, but we'll get there.
It's all good. So all right, Anthony.
Well, again, I appreciate you hopping on.
I loved learning a little bit more about your journey.
And I hope that maybe maybe in the middle of the year, check
back in with you, see how you're doing, see how you're hitting
your goals and what's going on for your YouTube channel.
So I appreciate it. Let me see.
Thank you so much for having me on.