Hello everybody, and welcome to this episode of the Disc Golf
Pants Man. I am Bobby, Cool Daddy, Slick
Breeze. And today is another disc golf
answer man interview. Now this is Nick and Justin from
the Disc Golf Show. And I've known these guys for
the longest time, way back when we first started our podcast
back in 2014. And ever since I've been with
Dynamic Discs, I've chatted with them on text, on messages and
have talked to them about different things going on with
disc golf, but I've never really actually sat in on a video call
and talked to them and interviewed them.
So I was like, you know what, I think it's about time.
So in this episode we get to know Nick and just a little bit
more how they got their start, a little bit what they got going
on right now and a little bit of future what's going on with
their show, The Disc Golf Show. So let's get into it.
All right, guys, So how are you doing today?
I'm not. Oh, that's I.
Wow, I. Just thought some questions.
I'm not You hit us with the hard ones, right they?
They only get more more hard. They get harder after this one.
So I guess we got to stay tuned. Jeez.
It's been a it's been a good morning.
I've got coffee. I'm good.
I'm good, I'm good. Oh yeah, you guys are what, two
hours behind? I'm 1250 right now.
You guys are what, 1050? Yep, you got it.
OK, so still kind of still kind of the mid morning gonna hit
into the afternoon for you guys. That's awesome.
So well, like I said in the intro, I've been following you
guys for quite some time, have known about you, we've chatted,
we've messaged before and but I've never actually got to like
sit and talk with you guys. So I thought this would be a
great opportunity to do that. And just for some people that
probably hadn't heard of you, tell me a little bit about the
disc golf show history. Give me the elevator pitch of
the disc Golf Show, how it started and where you got to
where you are now. Justin.
Sure. Yeah, Nick actually approached
me with the idea first. We were, we were doing a
podcast. What was that?
2000 and 5:00-ish I think. It was a while ago.
Yeah, and we're doing this podcast about news, and it had
seven people on it, and it was a terrible mistake.
But you know, your first shows usually are and, and Nick was
like, you know, hey, there's this disc golf thing because
he'd recently introduced me to disc golf and he's like, why
don't we do a podcast on it? It's fun, you enjoy it, right?
And like, yeah, sure, why not? So and that, that's literally
how it started. We're like, I like podcasting, I
like disc golf. We put them together.
That's that's basically it. There was no really thought
other than that kind of put into it.
So it was, it was like anything like when you introduce somebody
to, to disc golf, they get hooked pretty quick.
Justin got hooked and Justin has a background with music.
So he has equipment, he has podcasting equipment.
And yeah, he, he was down to do it.
And we started it back in 2013, right around the time Smashbox
started theirs. And, you know, Terry's been
involved with disc golf guy stuff on his own forever.
But yeah, we were, it was, it was fun.
It was initially we just, you know, there wasn't a lot out
there. And we decided, you know, let's
do it monthly back then. And it was a lot of news to
cover. And, you know, we had a blast
doing it. We used to do it in person and
then we torched down with different other ways to do it
and until we got where we're at. A lot of failed experiments and
complicated setups. We tried the whole live
streaming thing. We did the whole Twitch thing.
Like we're trying everything just to just to see, just to
try. It was a lot of fun.
Yeah, back in those times, I think, yeah, because we started
the disc golf fans, man, I think 2014, it was around that time
there wasn't really a lot of disc golf podcasts.
When you had set out to do this, what was kind of the the
objective? Were you just going to talk disc
golf or maybe talk at disc golf events or tournaments?
What was kind of the game plan there?
Yes, all of that, all of that. I think it was the, IT was, you
know, we were so into it, at least for me, like I'm more on
like the technical side and I have a little artistic streak
too. But it was really like, I think
for me, what really I wanted to bring to the show was the stuff
that I wanted to like know about personally, right?
Like I, I was big into discs and the technology that went into
discs and how they were made in every manufacturer.
I wanted all of them. I want to throw them all and see
how they all flew and do that kind of stuff.
So really for me, I think what I tried to focus on at least is,
is the part of the show that I would bring is, is that aspect
like here's some discs and here's some stuff about it.
And I'm a beginner. Here's what I'm learning, here's
some techniques that, you know, Nick has been tossing to me and
and I'm getting better and he doesn't like it.
And this is how you can make your friends not like you too,
because you're getting better and, you know, just kind of like
those ideas, right? That's kind of what I would
focus on for the show. But the news aspect really, I
mean, I'll let Nick talk about that.
He's always been in it like he's been in it because he's been
playing it for, you know, forever because he's what,
you're like, 50 something now, next something.
I turn 47 next month. Let's calm down, OK?
I've got you about a few years, Nick.
So we're good. We're all good you.
Don't look. No, thank you.
Yeah, I I mean, the first time I ever played was like 96, I think
somewhere around there. 9596, a buddy introduced me to it and
when we started the show, actually the one thing that we
did decide the route we wanted to go was worldwide news.
And because again, I always throw it back to Terry.
Terry was so involved in deep with the pros because he played
so much in tournaments and stuff that we wanted to highlight
anybody and everybody that was trying to build something in the
community. And that's why we had a lot of
small businesses as guests. I mean, we did get around to the
point where we had a lot of pros on.
We had Simon on a couple times, Eagle, Jamie Avery and Val Scott
Stokely was on like we had a lot of pros on as well.
But we had a lot of industry people on, which was really cool
to learn about that aspect of disc golf and it it was a
passion project for us. It wasn't about, you know,
anything financial or anything like that.
We just love playing and we wanted to bring as much
information to the masses as we could.
And funny enough, and Justin will remember this, our first
big support was from Europe. It was from.
Like Amsterdam. So I don't know if you know Dean
Schaub. He is a guy who does, he used to
call it Dean St. Amsterdam back in the day, but
he's like in the community over in Amsterdam in Europe.
And so he contacted us and he was one of our first like show
sponsors. And he goes, hey, you've got a
following. That's that's building over here
already. And that was kind of a shock to
us because we just started out and within, I think it was like
a couple months we started seeing again with Justin, he
does all the analytics. So he would be like, oh, you
know, we're, we're getting people from here and there and
all that good stuff. And that was a, that was a kind
of a shock to us as to the initial far reach that we had,
which was cool. Wow, that's pretty cool.
It's kind of like the power of the Internet, right?
You're like, you do the show as a hobby.
You know, that's that's kind of how it started, how it still is.
It's right. It's a hobby.
It's yeah, like Nick said, it was never for like monetary
because we we'd be poor. It'd be a terrible financial
decision. I would I would be sleeping on
the couch for many a nights if I had one.
I might have to sell it, but no like it just the the power of
reaching so many different places just by putting it out
there is just it blows me away to this day.
Like looking at the analytics now, like, oh, look, there's
there's a couple of people from Brazil that listen to the show.
Like, why? I mean, that's awesome.
But like, you know, you're just it blows me away sometimes.
Like, this is really cool. Like.
Yeah. I remember the beginning when I
started doing, yeah, when I started doing stuff and I did a
live, it was in 2009, I did a live stream of the Green Country
Open. And it was, I was in my
expedition and I was in the back part of it.
And I had a desktop computer that was plugged into the car
while it was running. And it was plugged in by
Ethernet to the house that was nearby.
And I was live streaming just two holes.
And I remember somebody in Australia said, well, they they
said, Oh my God, I'm here in Australia and I'm watching live
disc golf. This is amazing.
And that's when I was like, this is what I want to do, you know,
so and it is it is cool because you don't have to wait for
anybody to give you permission. You literally just have to
create an account somewhere and start live streaming and anybody
can TuneIn. So yeah, I, I totally get that,
that feeling of man, I have global reach and I'm sitting
here right in my living room. And at the time I was in
Pawhuska, Oklahoma, streaming out to the world.
So how, how do you guys feel? No, Well, let's, let's, let's
keep with the journey just a little bit, just so people
understand where you're coming from.
But I know that you at some point you guys took a break away
from it and then you decided to come back.
Tell me a little bit about that. It was.
All my fault, I confess. Justin's defense, he puts a lot
on himself. He stretches himself thin and
just because he's so willing to do things and and support
everything like that, but he just had a lot on his plate and
it was to a point where it was like a breaking point.
And so he's. Astronomical amount yeah,
astronomical. I like, you know, family and,
and nuke child and, you know, just all this stuff.
And it just came to a point where I'm like, dude, I, I
can't, I can't, I can't keep up with it.
I, I have this problem. And it's a very simple word in
the English language. It's no, I have a really hard
time saying that word. If somebody comes to me, like,
dude, you want to do this? And I'll be like, yeah, that's
my instinct answer, like, yeah, let's do it.
And then all of a sudden I'm like, Oh my gosh, I barely have
enough time to breathe, which the the first break was that
was, hey, look, I don't know if I can keep up with this anymore.
It's just not something, you know, that I, that I can really
bring any amount of good stuff to, right?
Just not in a good mental space because I'm stressed and I, I
can't bring good content because I don't have enough time to
research it, right? It's just one of those things,
right? It's just too much.
So I had to let something go. So that became the thing that I
let go. And we recently I have stepped
back from the show as well. I'm kind of more behind the
scenes now, but it doesn't mean I'm gone, just means I'm, I'm
taking a little break, trying to catch a breath again because
life is life is life, right? And it ends up and it ends up
giving us, I don't know, different avenues in what we can
do with the show because we talked about this like we do the
show and it's a good hour, hour and a half usually.
And for commute purposes that's kind of long for consumability
and this kind of and and this gives me the opportunity where
we don't have to schedule together to make sure everything
is lined up. I'll be able to do I'm trying to
kick it to weeklies now and that way is it's more consistent and
smaller you. Didn't want to do weekly
forever, forever. He's like, just let's do weekly,
let's do weekly. I'm like, dude, I will die.
I kind of want to do weekly. That's kind of one of the things
that kind of the first break was because we tried to do weekly.
We went from monthly to weekly. And I think that was what the
the tipping point was. And yeah, I mean, now that we
started back up, we started back the beginning of literally
January 1st of 2024, we did every other week.
And then like I said, we're trying to kick, I'm trying to
kick it to weekly now. And, you know, and, and I work
half in office, half home, so that gives me the flexibility to
do that. And it's just, there's a lot of
shows out there now and a lot of them that do with live are on
Tuesday. You've got tour life, you've got
Smashbox, they do live in the evenings and they're going 3
hours, you know, two to three hours on average probably.
And so I think maybe something like I said, maybe this opens up
a different Ave. for the show and there's other things that
Justin, I know he's got pet projects for the show that he
wants to work on as well outside of actually the podcast.
I'm not done. I'm not done.
You can't hold me down. I got I got stuff.
Yeah, it's coming out. I swear.
And it's and again like. I think that's that's, that's
one thing, though, that I think a lot of people might not
realize is when you you talk about doing a disc golf show or
a podcast really at all. And Bobby, I know you know this,
there's a lot that goes on behind the scenes to get this
thing done right. It's not just turn on the camera
and go, we're going to talk about disc off today.
I mean, you could, but it's going to show in your show,
right? There's so much research and
stuff that has to go into it, like talking about like the
discs or whatever. I've got a huge database of
every single aspect you can think of with a disc that when I
research new stuff that comes out that drops and I tell you
about it. I'm giving you an informed
opinion because I have all the data.
I'm running all that before I talk about it, right?
It's that type of stuff that's like, I don't think people
really realize. They're like, what's wrong with
weekly? There's a lot wrong with weekly
for me. Like, there's so much stuff you
have to do to prepare to do a show, you know?
Yeah. And that was like when we first
started and even now like my my thing was like let at first it
was like we don't have to create a show.
The show will be created by people's questions when they
submit the questions. But then we started realizing as
they submit questions, it's like it's better for us to kind of
research a little bit if they have a pretty in depth question,
excuse me, especially if it's about a certain disk or a
certain mold, just like we want to have a, a more informed
answer for you. So even when they submit the
questions and that's your content, they're still taking
time. You still have to take time to
do a little research and or grab the disks to be able to show the
disks while we're talking about it.
So I totally, I totally get that.
You're right. Weekly people, people think it's
just that hour or so that's all the work that's put into it that
week that they that they're that, that hour that they watch
it or listen, there's so much more behind the scenes that's
going on. So I completely agree there.
And Nick, you had mentioned something that right now there's
like a lot more. So yeah, like when I first
started, I think I did a search and I think there was maybe 5,
maybe 5 podcasts and a couple of them were more very, very local
centered podcast. But now I think there's like 40,
some of them have been out there for a couple years and then
they're dormant. But I could swear there's like
40 different disc golf podcast. What is what has been your all's
take on the evolution as far as it becoming now we all know that
podcasting has become a bigger format for people to get their
message out there. But to see disc golf kind of
kind of give me kind of what's your feedback on that, watching
it explode as far as a a medium that people get their message
out? I think personally, disc golf
and, and, and a lot of things, I think disc golf really got a big
push in in the front of a lot of people's faces when we had that,
that vid thing that showed up. You know what I mean?
Because people are looking for stuff to do and consume and, and
what are you going to do? You're sitting at home, you're
doom scrolling on, on the Youtubes and oh, there's a
there's a thing. Oh, disc, maybe I should try
that out, right. And I think because of the
availability, the ubiquity of information that you can get, I
think it's spawned all these things kind of naturally, right?
As time goes on and people have the ability and they know about
certain things and enjoy different hobbies, they're going
to do different things like create a podcast, right?
So I think it's just kind of a natural evolution of things as
as disc golf gets bigger, so too does all the other stuff that
goes around it, right? So I think it's just, I think we
are really, really pushed forward pretty fast with with
the lockdown, right. I think that really, really
escalated things. Yeah.
And and now like people feel like there's AI mean there is
there's a plateau, if not a little, there's a lull in growth
right now, but that's expected because of such of a large boom
during bid during COVID. But I think it's, I, I like it
because it gets those local podcasts get you a lot of
information from so many different areas and different
points of view. But it also shows you who's
super passionate about doing it and who like just what was
saying, who thinks, oh, it's just doing this and just doing
that. But then once you actually start
to commit time and you know, just building show notes for a
week or two, I'm constantly, as bad as it may be for me, I'm
constantly on social media and YouTube and all that stuff
looking for information that I can share with people.
And even it, even if it's a small, like I said, like the
little businesses. I remember when disc golf pins
started. I remember when, what is it Eric
and and Tina started their whale sack business.
I remember like all those little companies that started up and
seeing how big they are now and how they've changed over the
years and the different things that they offer now.
I, I personally enjoy just supporting other people.
Anytime I can get information to help grow somebody else.
That's what one of the main things that whenever I
contacted, because I was constant constantly contacting,
reaching out to different little businesses that would pop up.
I said, Hey, I if you want to send something great.
That's not the purpose of this contact.
The the purpose of me contacting you is trying to help get more
exposure to you just in general, just so that there's still a
massive, to me, I feel like there's a massive gap and
availability for product in disc golf.
I mean clothing alone, yeah, you have manufacturer clothing,
which is great, but there's a large gap for like general disc
golf related apparel that has the ability to grow.
And I start to see I'm starting to see more people who think
that way. There's a couple people that
I've recently reached out to that have that same mindset.
And even they, those people who are starting to grow their
business, they're like, yeah, you should do it too because I
mentioned that I go, yeah, you know, I've thought about doing
this for a long time. I'd love to do clothing.
I wanted to do clothing for a long time.
But again, it's the back end of that.
You know, when you have family, when you have work, when you
have your passion projects, like Justin said, all those things
together, like you can stretch yourself out thin really quickly
and it's tough to rein yourself in.
And like Justin said, also saying no to certain things, or
maybe not right now, that could definitely be another way to.
Address it. So you touched on something that
we actually had a question come up on our most recent episode
was that the disc golf apparel and how it feels like it's very
lacking from anybody right out there.
And, you know, as someone who is behind the scenes and, and, and
works with that type of stuff with the manufacturer, it is a
challenge because I, we know it need, we need more apparel, we
need more lifestyle stuff. But it, you know, it's, it's
hard to justify when we have racks and racks of clothes that
that isn't selling, that, you know, it would sell a little
bit, but not quite as much to justify spending more money on
more apparel. But what do you, what do you
guys see on your end as far as do you see any reason why the
apparel is lacking? I think so.
I think there's and and I don't know to what extent it would be.
I'd, I'd have to be more behind the scenes with apparel to
really give you a great answer in this regard.
But I do see this kind of throughout disc golf in and of
itself in that let's say you have a a polo right now.
Now take disc golf and compare it to ball golf.
OK, Because that's that's the biggest thing we have to compare
to, right? And now how much is a polo going
to cost you for golf if it's a golf polo?
I mean, you're talking Travis Matthews, you're talking like 60
up towards. $100 right right now are you going to pay that for a
disc golf polo? Heck no, there you go.
And and there's, there's, there's like the the crux of the
problem, I think, and, and with a lot of things in disc golfers,
I think that sometimes it can kind of at least in terms of
like product, it can be good get a little too big for itself.
You know, like, Hey, I want to charge the $100 for a shirt.
Nobody's going to pay that, right?
It's baby steps to get there. And, and I think finding that
right place to set that price point is where maybe some of
that problem starts to get solved, right as it maybe we
start here and, and as the sport grows, it will it, it's
continuing to grow. You know, we can push it up to
that level. But I think sometimes that might
be the whole back. And some of it is manufacturing
is expensive, right? And things aren't getting
cheaper. So how do you make profit off of
this? But also set it at a point where
somebody's going to want to buy these things?
And I think apparel has been set back by that because I've, I've
seen the things right. I've seen like the dude clothing
line and I've seen the cherry bomb clothing line and the price
differences even just between those two examples.
Where do you set it? But I think that's probably
that's probably a lot of it, right?
Is where, where does that come in?
Where does the profit come in versus the, you know, the want,
the desire for somebody to buy that?
Yeah. The problem, the problem is, is
that you're right. There's a lot of risk in buying
a large quantity of the apparel because if it's not selling,
it's basically cash just sitting there that you can't invest into
other things. And we you can't, you know,
we're not a huge company where we can, we can afford to invest.
In other words, when we buy a run of shirts, it's going to be
a smaller run, which means it's going to be more expensive.
We can't afford to buy a few thousand shirts, right?
The price down to make sure the margins are there to pay for the
marking of it, to pay for the shipping of it.
And you know the, you know, the packaging pay the employees to
pull the orders. And so yeah, it's kind of a it's
it's AI guess you call it a catch 22 where.
So what we're trying to tell a strategy worth looking into
right now is having what we call always on apparel, which means
it's more excuse me, it's it's not going to be as exciting, but
it's going to have our brand on it.
It's going to be nice colors. There might be some, you know,
some designs to it, but we're going to it's going to be
limited. You know, it might, there might
be only 50 throughout the runs of the sizes, but we've got to
to your point, we've got to prove the concept.
We've got to go. Oh well, we sold forty of those
45 of those great, let's order another 50 of another design.
And until we kind of build up that desire for the apparel.
So hopefully that strategy works.
We'll have to wait and see. But so, yeah, I do remember
seeing though, in the warehouse, there are some T-shirts that are
like, man, this has been around for three or four years.
It's like you can't, you literally can't discount it
enough unless you're just giving it away.
And you can't always just give stuff away.
So. So what's some other things that
you've guys seen because you've guys been around for a while and
oh, did you want to make a say something like?
That just just really quickly on the apparel stuff, I think a big
thing with that is having it not manufacture specific.
So something like there's one of the companies I was talking
about, I think was, oh, hand candy I think is what it is.
They're they're coming back. There's another one called Howdy
Disc golf. There's a lot of little
businesses that either I've reached out to or they've
reached reached to us where it's not a specific brand because The
thing is that, yes, if you're passionate about that
manufacturer and that brand, you want to support them.
Totally get that. But if if you as a business you
want to reach as many people as you can.
So let's say Dynamic Discs creates a side brand called
Double Down. Whatever it is, right, whatever
you want to name it, it is a House of discs or Dynamic Discs
brand. But those who don't necessarily
throw solely Dynamic Discs, I can appreciate that as disc golf
apparel, general disc apparel. And I think that's one of those
things where or I where it's going now with a lot of the
athletes are having their own lines, which is good.
I think that's great because people are attracted to just the
specific person what whether or not they're on a specific
manufacturing team. Like I love Simon, so I'll I'll
support him. I'll get I've I've had Dysmania
stuff, I've had MVP stuff now like, you know, different little
things like there's a there's a lot of area, they're just
athlete wise that is a a possible Ave. for, for apparel
and and equipment that supports not only the player but also the
brand that they represent in a roundabout way.
Yeah, but. Yeah, I hear you.
It's it's definitely a challenge and but no, I agree with you.
That would be I could see that where it's more of a lifestyle.
In other words, yeah, people just want you.
People love to wear who they are right.
And so to wear something that's disc golf to Nana without
telling someone, Hey, I play disc golf.
Do you play disc golf? They're showing it off by what
they wear. And then, you know, I I don't
know how many times I've seen been at a like Silver Dollar
City, Silver Dollar City and I'll see Innova or disc craft
about. Oh yeah, disc golfer.
Nice. You know, it's just cool to see
that that there's somebody else that's into something that
you're into. What's some other things that
you guys have seen in disc golf that you've seen kind of evolve
for better or for worse? Technology filming, there's
discs now, there's discs now you can get that'll tell you how you
throw it. Like there's there's so much
stuff that's like going into like with the innovation of
everything. And I find that personally like
super exciting, right? And like I can, I can foresee a
day when we have like a machine that tosses a disc that gives us
constant flight numbers and every manufacturer goes through
the thing and we have same flight ratings on every like,
you know, there's so much possibility there.
Ditto. There's so much possibility and,
and, and the filming of everything, right with the the
disc golf like network and and like seeing that go from like
the handheld cameras, which we did back in the day, you know,
like trucking around and trying to get multiple angles of being
all cool to like actual professional sit down, you know,
planned out networks that do these things that follow a tour.
Like seeing that is just almost mind blowing for me.
Like it's fantastic. Fantastic.
Yeah, the so the better. That's probably the biggest
thing, yeah. The quality of content.
It's I always have my on the show, I always say.
I always have my constructive criticism of anything and
everything just because I'm not looking there to berate old
mannerisms. Yeah, old manner.
I'm looking. I'm looking at it to try to
provide some sort of improvement in any way possible because the
better it gets, the better everyone you can appreciate it
more. It doesn't matter what it is,
whether it's disc golf or or hiking or, you know, it doesn't
matter as long as the quality gets better.
Like there's a few things that I've recently posted that have
gotten some black just because I don't think they're looking at
it the same angle that I'm looking at it.
But I don't take it if like serious or anything or offensive
or anything like that because everybody has their own opinion.
I totally get that. One of the things was recently
cameraman placement and I get let's.
Talk about that. Let's get into it.
So I understand and I agree. You want to get that shot, you
want to get the best shot you can of that player of that throw
everything right. Just in the last couple events,
well, last few events, there's been situations where I see a
cameraman within 30 feet, sometimes 15 feet of the, of the
athlete. And yes, the arguing point is,
well, they, they throw well, They throw good enough or not
good enough. They throw great and they have
control, so much control. They're not, that's not even in
their peripheral. And I was coming at it from, I'm
not even talking about the peripheral of the athlete, I'm
talking about the viewers experience.
I don't want to see a cameraman 30 feet from the player in front
of them at a 10° angle because to me like just push out of the
out of the way. We're trying to watch the
player. I don't want to see another
camera directly in their throw line, whether it's going to
affect them or not. And I get like I said, I get the
you want to get that shot. Yes, I know.
And cameras can only cameras are expensive.
I know Justin's picked up a couple recent or not recent over
the years that I just at that rate boggle my mind and I'm and
they go 10s of thousands, you know, of dollars for for high
quality cameras for live viewing purposes.
I get that. To start.
But it's even at that. Yeah, yeah, even at that.
It's a double edged sword. Which way do you want to go?
Do you want that shot so bad that you're going to make the
viewer look at it and go, why is that person standing there?
Or does the viewer just go, I get it.
I understand why they're there because they want that for
marketing purposes down the road or for clips to post.
And I understand that. But to me, it's just, it makes
me, it makes me shiver when I see those situations pop up on
live coverage. And I mean, there's there's a
plethora of things that are off on Justin knows.
But yeah, that. Was Oh, yeah, I, I think you've
just proved, I think you've just proved how you got all the Gray
hairs. You know, I've got I've got a
ton of them too. Your old mannerisms are sticking
out. You know, personally, it's live,
man. I get it.
I see a camera. I see a camera.
It doesn't bother me as long as they're not obstructing the
player, OK? I, I, I kind of, I'm kind of
with Nick, I see that point where it does take you kind of
out of the moment, especially someone who does, you know,
media, but it does kind of take you out.
Like, I mean, I know, I know we're not watching a movie, but
you know, there's always those times where like, oh, I just saw
the boom mic or, you know, or, or I saw something or, you know,
and it's like it does kind of take you out of the moment when
you see the behind the scenes stuff when you're not expecting
it. I totally get that, But I, I
think it's just a, the nature of the beast we're in right now
because like we don't have the 1020 thousand $30,000 cameras
that can, you know, shoot high quality from far away.
We don't have the, the courses that are designed around media.
I know some of them try, but they're not going to 100% be
able to do that where they literally, I mean, they're
literally golf courses where there's wiring and cabling built
into the course because it's designed that way from the get
go. And it takes, you know, it takes
money. So when I see people gripe about
that, I, I, I am, I'm kind of like, you know, just calm down.
You know, a little bit. And just, and just enjoy where
we're at right now. You know, I mean, you guys, I'm
sure remember the days where, I mean, I was producing DVDs and
people would have to wait for a week or two before they got any
kind of coverage. And now you're literally
watching it as it happened. So it is almost like I see it
kind of as a it's, it's because we have so many new people into
the sport and they're probably used to watching the golf.
The the other events that already are, are mature enough
to have had all that they've gone through that or they have
the technology or the money to do that.
So, yeah, I'm kind of the kind of the person that's like, you
know, just just calm down. And yes, as long as you're not
in their line of sight, of course.
I've had plenty of times where I'm just not paying attention
and I'm literally right looking right at them with my camera, my
hand going, Oh my God, what I do.
And I just deer in headlights. And so I just kind of stand
still. So thankfully most of the pros
that I've had to come up to and apologize are like, dude, I get
it. It happens.
So I've never had anybody met. I did have one person mad at me
one time. I can't remember her name.
And she was the girlfriend of Dave Feldberg.
And we were we were standing, I don't remember what that were we
were at was me Jeremy Ruscoe or Robert McCall.
And it was a place where there was a quite a, a few holes
pretty close together as far as the baskets.
And all of a sudden I hear someone say stand still.
And then Jeremy looks at me and goes stay still, stay still.
So she goes, can you move, please?
And they're looked at me and I go stand still.
And I'm like standing still. And I just freeze.
And she puts and I can't, I think she missed it.
I can't remember if she made it or missed it.
And then she said something like you couldn't even move or
something like that. I was like, Oh my God.
So I went to her later on, apologized, and she was like,
it's OK, I get it. I understand.
I was like, I didn't know how to move or stay still or whatever.
And so anyway, yeah, I felt embarrassed, but.
I've had somebody get mad at me. Yeah, yeah.
Oh yeah. It happens.
Now what do you guys do? What do you guys do in disc golf
when you're not doing disc golf show?
Are you involved in disc golf otherwise than that?
Yeah, I've had. I was part of the sponsorship
team for the USW DGC when it came to Northern California.
I've been on different boards here in the local area.
I've been on Folsom board, which is here in the Sacrament area,
and I'm currently on the Roseville Disc Golf Club board
because it's the newest course in the area That, and Justin
knows I'm, I'm not the look at me.
This is what I've done type thing.
But I, I was lucky enough to be a part of a design team for this
new course that went in our area, Roseville, CA And that
alone was so much fun to do that after, after and during I during
the time that I was part of it. There we go.
Did you lose me during that time?
I learned that that's kind of what I want to do moving
forward, like when I retire and stuff like that.
So I mean, I've done a plethora of other things too, but but
yeah, yeah, I'm pretty involved in the local scene.
OK, we lost you. I kinda.
I caught a little bit of it. Are you still there, Nick?
Yeah. Nope.
There we no, we lost. Finally gave up.
What he was saying is he's a part of a lot of the boards that
are out here locally and he just designed one of our local
courses, helped design one courses out here.
So he's a member of that board as well.
Fantastic course, except when I bogey, then it's it's the worst
course I've ever played. Exactly.
You know, it's all his fault anyways.
And I point that out every time we play.
Anybody misses, I'm like, hey, that's this guy's fault
partially. But yeah, he's super involved in
like the local community out here and stuff and, and keeps on
it. He's honestly, I don't know how
he does it most of the time. He's up to date on everything
that goes on in the local area in terms of disc golf.
So he's super, super involved. I'm a member of that club of
the, of the one that he helped design and I just play disc
golf. That's about it.
That's. I keep a really.
That's that's. I know.
All right, we got you back. Can we hear you?
Yeah. Can you?
Yes, we can hear you. I don't.
Know what's going on, so I don't.
Know so he told so he told he he told me real quick you you were
got into some course design work that you are loving.
Yeah. So you want to get more into
that? Yeah, I, I would.
That's something that after doing this project was something
that I could see or wanting to do after retiring from my daily
job. That's something that I would
love to do. It was so much fun.
It took way longer than normal because COVID happened and we
started right before it so and everything kind of went on pause
and then when we came back we finished.
It took us 4 plus years because of COVID, but it just went into
the ground earlier this year middle of February.
So it's it's doing well currently, so.
All right, so from a course designers perspective, so that's
something you want to get into. Tell me your top three courses
and why. Oh geez.
I'd say a bucket list. Top three would be I really
enjoy what they've done at European Open.
That course is I think for that it's more so for media purposes.
I think that it plays well for people who are able to watch
live. I think MVP is one of my top
just because it's, I grew up playing tighter wooded courses
and that kind of brings me into that aspect of, of appreciating
that type of a course, even though it's on a Christmas tree
farm. And that could be something that
is, I don't know. I, I think we're just
comfortable with that course being on a Christmas tree farm,
even though it's, it's, I'd like to see it as solely a disc golf
course, but that one and then a third one.
Oh, geez. I mean, Rosal.
No, I'm just kidding. Rosal Just probably trying to
think of another one. I like.
I like Waco. I like the course that they play
Waco at. I think that happened open with
the wind as an obstacle is awesome.
I, I think one thing I did learn in design is that initially
having a, having a basket just plain out in the open, I was
like, oh, it's kind of simple. It's just right there.
But then after having people play it and some of the better
players go, you know, not having something near the pin to
address as a distance point to know what to throw.
I didn't even think about that. And and seeing some of those
holes where the baskets are completely out in the open, you
have wind is your biggest obstacle.
I mean, you know, in in Emporia, the wind kicks up.
So winds a big thing there, right.
And yeah, you can use again with the course that I helped Co
design, they're like we have wooded, but we have open holes.
And I think the combination of that on any course is beneficial
to anybody trying to improve their game.
Yeah, I it's tough. There's so many good courses out
there. I the one thing I do want to say
is that again, I'm always looking out 1020 years for the
sport is these courses, though they are great on public
property, it's going to have to ultimately go to private just
because of the back end and the infrastructure for it.
And like you said, line routing for power for cameras that needs
to be brought into into the thought in design.
And even Justin will know this on even layoff design holes for
me when you design a course having in mind what those
playoff holes should be and how they should be formatted and
routed. I didn't like when they had the
playoff where they had the part the people all the way back to
the T pad on a par 5 hole. No, just find a way to route a
few holes to where you don't have to wait 5-10 minutes to get
the players back to that hole to replay that hole in a playoff.
Like that's just a waste of time in my in in my point of view.
But I again, I could go on. I could go on.
That's OK. Episode #12 Yeah.
Yeah, really of designing a new course, right.
That's awesome. No, I love it.
I think course design is definitely something that it's
obviously very important because we need more places for people
to play. And I'm of the opinion that
people underestimate the power of a nine hole course in their
local community. True.
You know, there's so many times where I'm like, I just want to
go through, but I don't want to, I don't want anything hard.
I don't want to lose my discs. And there's a nine hole course.
It's like 15 minutes away that it gets, it gets me my fix, you
know, and it's just nine holes in there.
There's some simple holes or some ones that I get to open up
and really get some distance. So yeah, I think 9 hole courses
are super important. Everybody wants that
championship 18 hole course and have the big pros come along and
that's all fine and dandy, but you know, just to have a nine
hole course for the community, enjoy things perfect.
What do you think? What do you think's the biggest
thing missing in course design for the courses that have been
around for a while? Amenities.
He didn't take my bait. Yeah, Like, yeah, it's, it's a
struggle. And when working with the city,
it can be a struggle because cities that don't already have
courses in there and they're trying to get the first course
in that area, they don't understand what disc golfers
need because they've never dealt with it on the government level.
And a lot of those things they don't, they don't even think
about they're, they're just thinking about usage of the
property and they're not thinking about the necessities
for the people who are going to use that property.
Just garbage cans are just a simple thing that, that you need
at every other hole at least, you know, And then the
government also thinks about, OK, well, we're going to have to
have somebody go out there and pick up the garbage.
I get that. But you've invested $3,000,000
into this property. Disc golf was only 30 to
$50,000. Throw some garbage cans on the
course. You know, there's a lot of
little things. There's a lot of little things.
Yeah, we still got some growing up to do, that's for sure.
Yeah. So what's up on the what's in
the horizon for the Disc Off show?
What can we look forward to? Lots of Nick's face.
I'm sorry. Lots and lots of Nick's face.
No, we I actually have a couple of things going on behind the
scenes that now hopefully I'll have a little bit more time to
get to. It'll be disc related.
It'll be something that you haven't seen before.
OK. And I'll leave you with that.
OK. No insurance you've seen before,
but OK. In a way that hasn't been done
yet to my knowledge. And if it is patent copyright,
right, anyways, so we'll see some stuff like that too.
And then like Nick said, it's going the show itself, it's
going to to weekly, I think. And Nick, I'll let you talk more
about it too, because you're more definitely more involved
with it now. But bringing back, I think kind
of that piece of talking more to the local community and the
entrepreneur and the other things that are involved in disc
golf and bringing that into the show itself.
There's a thing that's an aspect that we've kind of been missing
as we started up the show again this time around.
Really, I think the biggest struggle for us when starting up
the show was how do we bring it back?
How do we bring ourselves back into doing a podcast?
How do we get people to know who we are and how do we know what
people want to hear and see out of a show, Right?
We don't bring the professional aspect of it.
Don't look at my professional this golf game.
I'm not right. You don't go to me for
professional advice, but you you go to me because I'm the average
Joe, right And I think that's kind of what our show more
brings is is that feeling in that aspect to it.
Yeah, you get the news, yeah, you get some stuff in it, but
it's really like. What are the what do people like
me think that that that aren't a pro, right?
What does that look like? And I think finding that balance
of bringing the news and, and, and you know what we want to
share because it's our show, it's our hobby, right, versus
what do people want to hear, I think is where the balance comes
in. And I think a big, maybe a big
part of that that we've been missing is, yeah, occasionally
let's go talk to a pro. That's important, right?
People want to hear from them. And then to bring in that local
community member to talk about the product and, and the thing
that they're selling and how does that right relate to to
disc golf and what do they bring.
So I'll let Nick talk more about it, but I think just from my
perspective, maybe that's something from our show that
that we need to bring more into the future.
So. Yeah, more, more personalities.
I think is is a big thing because I one thing I got to I
got to give props to is foundation.
So the foundation team does so much content and the different
personalities that they bring to the table, just like even this,
this new, what is it called, the Imposter series that they're
starting up that's growing. Those type of things are what
disc golf needs for content because it makes it fun, it
makes it interesting. You get to learn about those
people and their character and all that stuff.
I think that's one of the things like Justin was saying is having
some of our local people maybe be more involved in like rounds
played or even to feature products.
They do that as well, like a disc dice or Legends of the
Chains or Ripped Ripped Revenge, all that type of stuff.
The fun games that can help your hit, help your disc golf game in
general in a roundabout way because it makes you throw
something that you're not used to throwing.
You might learn something about that disc that you didn't even
realize you're good at. That's definitely one of the
things that I think would be beneficial because there's not a
lot of that out there outside of really foundation.
And I don't know, like I said, making it more consumable,
smaller for, for for viewers and listeners and stuff.
But I mean, there's a lot, there's a lot of things that we
want to do. There's a lot of things I want
to do. But again, it comes down to time
and priorities. Right, I think one thing that
that disc golf podcasts need you missed the opportunity here Nick
and so have I is more disc golf answer me really yes.
Agreed. Yeah, well, even though this is
my job, I I still have to find time to do it because of the
other aspects of my job. So yeah, I have fun doing this
and I have fun talking to people like yourselves and learning
what's going on out there. So well, guys, I appreciate you
taking the time to jump on the show.
I want to respect your time and let you get back to you whatever
you got going on. But it was it was great talking
to you, getting to know you a little bit more about what you
got going on. And I sure appreciate it.
And I wish you the best of luck in the future, whatever you guys
work on. Hey, you as well.
It was great. It's fantastic talk to you.