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I am gonna introduce Paul with 
just a little something. 

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A little nugget, a nugget, a 
nugget. 

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I went to university a long time
ago and I didn't actually read 

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theology. 
I was tempted to, I actually was

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choosing between theology, 
English and history as the three

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subjects I wanted to read at 
uni. 

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And we prayed, me and my mum, 
and felt for a number of reasons

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to read English. 
And I'm really, really pleased 

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that I did that because what I 
noticed at the university I went

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to is that a lot of people who 
read theology lost their faith. 

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But a lot of people who did 
English didn't have faith, so 

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they had nothing to lose. 
It was absolutely brilliant 

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doing English because no one had
any expectations of faith. 

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It's a very secular subject and 
as a person of faith I could 

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kind of navigate through. 
But I felt that was really 

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heartbreaking. 
It was, it was heartbreaking for

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people to go to university 
having had this deeply rich, 

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emotional, often family 
inheritance, belief in God, and 

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then just have it shot down 
ruthlessly and brutally for 

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three years. 
And of course, some people got 

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through it, but the way they got
through it was what we've talked

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about before, something called 
cognitive dissonance. 

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They got through it by kind of 
parking that stuff they heard 

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and then going, I know I 
experienced God in worship. 

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I know he leads me. 
I know he provides for me. 

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But there was a disintegration 
between a kind of faith in God 

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that makes sense, a loving God 
with our mind, and then this 

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kind of gut instinct that God's 
real. 

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And then about 2025 years later,
I went to a lecture by a man who

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said, who talked about something
called the synoptic problem. 

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This is a problem to do with the
order and the historicity of the

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four accounts of the person of 
Jesus and the synoptics being 

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same view synoptic of Matthew, 
Mark, Luke, that very similar 

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view of Jesus. 
And there's this academic issue 

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around those gospels, and this 
man delivered this lecture, and 

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it was exactly the same issue as
had been the issue where people 

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lost their faith 20 to 30 years 
ago. 

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But the only difference was that
this person believed in the 

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resurrection from the dead, and 
therefore he framed the synoptic

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problem completely differently. 
It turns out it's not really a 

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problem at all. 
The issue is do we believe in 

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the resurrection from the dead? 
So I found this healing. 

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I began to find a healing in a 
theology that we would call is 

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both mystical, where it's an 
experience, a revelatory 

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experience of God, and then 
something you can then 

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articulate with your mind. 
We're designed to love God, but 

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it's never, it's not with our 
mind first. 

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It's heart, soul, mind and body.
There's an order. 

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We have the revelation and at 
the beginning of 1 John, he 

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says, I'm trying to explain to 
you something I touched, I felt 

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I experienced. 
There was this person called 

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Jesus who was the incarnation, 
the Word made flesh. 

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And I am really struggling with 
the words to express that 

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incredibly profound reality. 
So this is kind of happening to 

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me and I realise that I am 
believing things that are 

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unbelievably mind blowing, and 
yet my experience of life isn't 

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mind blowing. 
I'm believing that the Christ 

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holds the cosmos together and 
holds me together and holds 

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history together and is the 
beginning and the end. 

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But I'm living as if death is 
bigger. 

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I'm living as if I'm crippled by
who's going to pay the bills. 

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I'm living as if our illness is 
the final answer. 

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I'm living like Adam is bigger 
than Jesus. 

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So we're going to push into some
stuff that's painful that we 

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might not agree with, we might 
never agree with, but I am sick 

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and tired of living in that 
world. 

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I want to live in a world of 
reality where Jesus is bigger 

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than Adam. 
Do you understand what I'm 

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saying by that? 
New creation is bigger than old 

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creation. 
Life is bigger than death. 

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The reality of union is bigger 
than than the worst case 

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scenario of what humans can come
up with. 

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So in order to do that, we want 
two things in this church. 

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We want to be what we call 
psychologically safe. 

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So these are the boundaries of 
this conversation, which we've 

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I've had with Paul for about 7 
years and we're going to have 

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for years, but we're really 
going to have it for this year. 

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What I mean by psychological 
safety is everyone is free 

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before God to believe what they 
like. 

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No one can ever violate or 
presume anyone else's conscience

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or conviction. 
We believe what we believe. 

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It's a mystery, but we do. 
It's all sorts of influences in 

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what we believe, but we believe 
it. 

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And we never, ever want to be a 
culture where we violate that 

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fundamental I just believe this 
or I don't believe this or I 

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believe this, but I don't 
believe that. 

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That is a psychologically safe 
culture. 

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As soon as we get to the point 
where we feel we have to believe

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something or we have to say 
something, that's exactly what's

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gone wrong politically is no one
has been able to be honest about

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what they really believe. 
And we're literally beginning to

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pay hell for that. 
And we won't be that in this 

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church. 
We're going to be a 

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psychologically safe church 
where people can literally say, 

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oh, that resonates, that 
doesn't, that's exciting, that 

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is really destabilising. 
We're going to be that 

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community. 
We are not going to be 

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polarised. 
We're going to love people who 

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think differently to us. 
We're going to have a family 

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that can hold. 
I have a very deep relationship 

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biologically with my biological 
family. 

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They will always be my family 
and I fundamentally disagree 

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with them on a lot of stuff. 
We have to get better as the 

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global church at being in 
agreement. 

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Can someone guess how many 
Protestant denominations there 

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are? 
Just Protestant 30 to 45,000, 

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Protestant demolitions because I
had a revelation. 

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You didn't quite get it. 
I'm just going to start another 

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church now. 
I think there is a lot of unity 

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in partnership and love between 
us now. 

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And more and more with the 
Catholic. 

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I think what God is doing, and 
part of this conversation is I 

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think he's reuniting with the 
Orthodox, of which there was a 

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schism in 1054. 
So that's part of what this 

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journey's about. 
But we're not just going to be 

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psychologically safe. 
What is the other thing we're 

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going to be? 
We're going to be brave. 

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We're going to be brave. 
The only bravery we can have is 

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with our own fears. 
We can't be brave for someone, 

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we can't make someone be brave, 
but we can be brave for 

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ourselves. 
So we're safe for other people, 

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but we're brave for ourselves. 
That's the culture I want us to 

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be in. 
If people have not done any of 

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the Trinitarian videos, we are, 
there's an introduction and a 

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lecture 1 and a lecture 2, all 
three of them. 

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It would be great if you've seen
by this Wednesday, because we're

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actually having a whole evening 
every month with a complete meal

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where all of us can start to 
process these deep things about 

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what we actually believe. 
It's really, really unusual for 

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a, for a church to actually put 
theology back into the church. 

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It's been split. 
It's been put in the Academy and

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killed, and then the church has 
become superficial and 

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experiential. 
We're putting theology back into

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the church because what we 
actually believe is how we 

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actually live. 
We live out of our beliefs 

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whether we like it or not. 
So we've got to understand what 

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we actually believe. 
So everyone, Wednesday a month, 

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we're going through it. 
We're going through content. 

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If you can't make the Wednesday 
pools available for a Zoom in 

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theology, we call these, we call
these kind of conversations 

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where someone pushes the 
boundary as a conversation 

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partner. 
They are someone who has a 

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conviction that might be 
different to us. 

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And they are so helpful in 
helping us formulate what we 

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think because they're not 
thinking like everyone else. 

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They've gone through a process 
and they have a conviction. 

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That's all we can. 
That's, that's, that's very 

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safe, isn't it? 
They're just a conversation 

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partner and we are brave enough 
to go. 

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I'm going to really listen to 
what you're going to say. 

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So all that to say, I'm going to
pray. 

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Now, I'd encourage anyone, we 
never ask Chris and I never ask 

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anyone to do anything. 
I hope, as you know, we're all 

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grown-ups, we all follow Jesus, 
blah, blah, blah. 

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But on this thing, we would love
it if everyone could connect him

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with this for a year, once a 
month, we get ditch on Netflix, 

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ditch your social media 
scrolling and watch one video, 

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one hour of theology once a 
month and come here for a 

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conversation once a month. 
You will never get this kind of 

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opportunity anywhere else. 
We're getting it for free, and 

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we probably won't. 
We may get it again every year, 

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but we probably won't get it 
again. 

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If we do get it again, it 
started this year. 

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The conversation started here 
this year. 

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This is a big global 
conversation in the Academy. 

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It's been going on for decades. 
We get to do it here. 

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So I'm going to pray now. 
I'm going to pray for Paul, but 

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I'm going to pray for us. 
There must be more. 

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Jesus must be bigger than Adam. 
Lord, I worship you and praise 

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you, Trinitarian, Godfather, Son
and Spirit. 

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When you became Sark's flesh, 
you did something to the human 

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condition which took us all in 
yourself and reconstituted us. 

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You were fully human and fully 
divine, and it took 300 years 

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for first followers of you to 
wrestle through to that phrase. 

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We want our minds blown again 
with incarnation. 

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When we come to Christmas, this 
Christmas, we won't want it to 

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be like any other Christmas 
where we say the same quotes 

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from Isaiah, the same quotes 
from John, and it means nothing 

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to us. 
We want our minds blown by 

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incarnation. 
And then something happened when

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you absorbed all the evil of the
human condition and the 

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principalities and powers that 
oppose you on the cross, and you

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were executed and dead and 
buried and you harrowed hell. 

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Something happened that 
fundamentally changed us all 

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forever because death couldn't 
hold you. 

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That's apparently what we 
believe. 

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Death couldn't hold you. 
You are life. 

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And so you were physically 
raised from the dead as a 

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vindication that when you said 
your reality in life, you are. 

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We want to be the kind of people
that actually embody that 

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reality. 
We don't just pay Idlib service,

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credo, credence. 
What we believe is what we 

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actually live out from our gut. 
Not something we say. 

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But the only way, and I think 
Paul talks about this a lot, the

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only way we can get there is 
through revelation. 

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We need you literally to reveal 
the nature of the Godhead to us.

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We need you to reveal the Christ
who holds the cosmos together. 

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That's what Paul's prayers all 
the way through his letters 

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were. 
Simply we need to know you more.

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We need to understand you more. 
We need to experience more. 

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We need to know the love you 
have for us. 

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Actually, everything changes 
when we literally just 

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experience the Godhead. 
And so we cry out to you. 

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We're not just going through 
another Sunday. 

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We cry out to you to birth in us
a new fresh knowledge of you. 

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We cry out to you to protect 
this journey, this beautiful 

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community of people that that 
anything that isn't of you, 

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darkness just as easily exposed 
by light. 

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We don't have to worry the 
light, just it, it just clears 

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away. 
But we protect us. 

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Protect us as we go on this 
journey into reality. 

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And most of all, or may we be 
people that are marked by 

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inexpressible joy and people 
actually ask us what is the hope

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that you have within you? 
Because we are so full of hope 

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that people actually ask that 
question. 

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Amen. 
Thanks. 

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Alice, that's great. 
So yeah, please do join us on 

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Wednesday. 
I've got I've got one simple 

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thing I'm wanting to do today 
and then I'll just throw some 

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sparkles around the outside and 
see where we land land with 

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those. 
But just just picking up on a on

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a couple of those things as you 
were praying, Alice. 

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So just remembered Jesus 
promise, one of the one of the 

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beautiful promises of the New 
Testament. 

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He says, Father, I have made you
known and I will continue to 

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make you known. 
So Jesus promise is that he will

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continue to make known to us 
what he has made known to us, 

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which is the the true nature and
character of the fathers. 

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He continues to make him known. 
So we, we've, we've got a good 

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promise, but it is absolutely 
right. 

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We can only know the unknowable 
by the unknowable revealing 

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themselves to us. 
You know, Paul's prayer that we 

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might know the love of Christ 
that surpasses knowledge being 

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filled to all the fullness of 
God. 

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I love that prayer. 
I was also thinking, you know, 

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we, we're used to dealing with 
the Bible. 

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I was listening to A, to a 
podcast that was making me a 

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little bit cross. 
And so one of the things that I 

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thought, Oh yeah, yeah, I know 
why it's the guy who was being 

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00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:29,960
interviewed said, well, you 
know, of course we've got the 

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Bible. 
And the Bible is a manual, like 

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00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:37,000
the user manual for human life, 
which is exactly the opposite of

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00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:39,520
what the Holy Spirit told me is 
the Bible is absolutely not a 

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00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:41,240
user manual. 
If you read it like a user 

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00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:42,880
manual, you're going to be in 
big, big trouble. 

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00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:45,680
But the church has, the church 
has read it that way. 

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00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:51,840
But I think it's interesting, if
you approach the Bible, just 

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think about the New Testament, 
approach it from the perspective

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00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:58,840
of how is it that these people 
got to say the things that they 

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00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:00,640
said? 
Like how did they arrive at the 

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00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:04,120
conviction and the conclusion? 
You know, when Paul says there 

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is nothing in all of creation 
that can separate us from the 

253
00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:09,240
love of God and he starts 
listing things, he says there's 

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00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:13,200
no power, there's no 
principality. 

255
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So there's nothing in the 
present. 

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00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,720
No, no, no phenomenon out there 
that has the capability to 

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00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:19,880
separate us from the love of 
God. 

258
00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:23,360
And then he he says there's 
nothing in the future that has 

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00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:26,560
the power or the capability to 
separate us from the love of 

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00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:28,600
God. 
And the future is an interesting

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00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:33,560
one because the future is, you 
know, an an open door of endless

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00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:35,960
possibilities. 
We have absolutely no idea 

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00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:38,560
what's coming. 
So he's saying, look, I'm trying

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00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:43,200
to say in an is in as emphatic 
terms as I possibly can. 

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00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:48,720
There is absolutely nothing that
can be conceived of that is able

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00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:52,440
to get between US and the love 
of God in Christ. 

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00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:55,560
And we read that and think, 
well, that's great, that's cool.

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00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:58,840
But how did someone like Paul 
actually get to the point where 

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00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:01,560
he was able to say that with the
with the conviction? 

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00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:05,400
And you know, he's a a God 
fearing man who doesn't want to 

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00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:06,960
say the wrong things about God, 
right? 

272
00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:09,720
He's a truth teller. 
How does he come to be able to 

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00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,720
be so certain in his convictions
about that fact? 

274
00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:16,240
Where does he get it from? 
Because there are lots of things

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00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:18,400
that you can go through in life 
that will make you feel like, 

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00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:20,720
yeah, maybe that could separate 
you or that this could or that 

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00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:21,760
could. 
There are lots of things. 

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00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:26,480
How can Paul be so emphatic? 
And I, I want to suggest is 

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00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:29,920
because of what he has seen in 
the incarnation has said, well, 

280
00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:34,000
because of this, because of the 
revelation of God in Christ in 

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00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:39,560
the incarnation, what we see 
there is so all-encompassing and

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00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:42,880
far reaching. 
I'm able to say beyond a shadow 

283
00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:46,200
of a doubt that if you believe 
in Jesus, you know that it is. 

284
00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:49,640
There is no hypothetical 
possibility in any of the 

285
00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:51,920
multiverse that can separate you
from his love. 

286
00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:56,560
But Paul gets that from his 
experience and encounter with 

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00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:58,280
Christ. 
He doesn't get it just because 

288
00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:00,320
he's waxing lyrical or being 
poetic. 

289
00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:04,000
He's he is Speaking of what he 
knows. 

290
00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:07,040
He's speaking out of knowledge. 
I mean real knowledge, not 

291
00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:11,040
hypothetical. 
So again, Alice referenced John.

292
00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:14,880
You know, this is we are giving 
testimony to what we have 

293
00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:18,480
handled with our own hands. 
John is saying we have seen this

294
00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:20,440
light with our own eyes. 
We've handled with our own 

295
00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:22,240
hands. 
We've been face to face with 

296
00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:24,360
him. 
And we are testifying to you 

297
00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:28,000
what we have come to know about 
who this person is and what this

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00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,640
means for everything else. 
And this is the basis of the 

299
00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:33,520
Apostolic witness. 
This is why we're writing these 

300
00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:34,760
things. 
This is why we're teaching these

301
00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:36,320
things. 
This is why we're living the way

302
00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:38,760
that we are because of an 
encounter. 

303
00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,240
And that encounter is informing 
everything else. 

304
00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:44,560
And we've we're still figuring 
that out, what the implication 

305
00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:46,320
of that is. 
And you can see that in the New 

306
00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:49,480
Testament, you can see 
chronologically as well, the 

307
00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:53,200
earlier books of the New 
Testament have less formed ideas

308
00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:55,480
than the later books of the New 
Testament. 

309
00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:01,320
But these are these are 
experiences when, when Paul is 

310
00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:04,920
giving his prayer, like the one 
in Ephesians, I pray that I 

311
00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:07,680
kneel before the Father from 
whom all fatherhood or family in

312
00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:08,920
heaven and earth derives his 
name. 

313
00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:11,800
And I pray that you being rooted
and grounded in love, may have 

314
00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:14,319
power together with all the 
Saints to grasp the height, 

315
00:17:14,319 --> 00:17:16,839
depth, length and breadth to 
know the love of Christ that 

316
00:17:16,839 --> 00:17:20,280
surpasses knowledge and thereby 
brackets, thereby being filled 

317
00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:22,920
to all the fullness of God. 
Right, when he gives this 

318
00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:26,200
prayer, he's not just coming up 
with a prayer that that prayer 

319
00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:28,600
is drawn from the pattern of his
experience. 

320
00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:32,120
He's saying, I'm, I'm saying 
there's a, a direct link between

321
00:17:32,120 --> 00:17:34,240
each part, each of the parts of 
this prayer. 

322
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:39,080
And it begins with the Father. 
So the revelation of the Father 

323
00:17:39,120 --> 00:17:44,480
and all that that implies is the
beginning of this sequence in 

324
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:47,840
Paul's prayer, which ends with 
having a revelation of the love 

325
00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:52,600
of Christ, knowing the love that
surpasses knowledge, and then 

326
00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:54,920
going into being filled with all
of the fullness. 

327
00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:58,480
And then he says the famous 
verse, you know, and now to him 

328
00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:01,360
to who is able to do 
immeasurably abundantly beyond 

329
00:18:01,360 --> 00:18:04,400
anything we could ask for or 
imagine according to the power 

330
00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:06,800
that is at work within us right 
now to him be glory in the 

331
00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:10,160
church for all generations. 
So Paul is taking us through a 

332
00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:12,600
sequence in his prayer. 
This is an experience. 

333
00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:16,880
He's he's saying I'm telling you
what it looks like for a human 

334
00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:20,520
being to become awake to the 
reality of the fullness of God 

335
00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:22,240
in them through them and and in 
everything. 

336
00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:25,360
And this is how it happens. 
It begins with the revelation of

337
00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:27,440
the Father. 
He says, that's why I bow the 

338
00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:31,800
knee before the Father so and 
you can go through that prayer 

339
00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:33,360
and you can see the different 
components to it. 

340
00:18:33,360 --> 00:18:35,840
What thing leads to another. 
This is supposed to be like a 

341
00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:39,040
little map, a little template 
where you say, all right, this 

342
00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:42,920
is something I can pray through.
I can engage with in a real 

343
00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:47,920
experiential way that helps me 
to see, OK, what where is the 

344
00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:50,840
joy draining out? 
What is where is not things. 

345
00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:53,040
Where are things not actually 
connecting up for me? 

346
00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:55,320
Where are the where is the 
cognitive dissonance? 

347
00:18:55,320 --> 00:19:01,240
Where is the fuse being blown? 
So Baxter, you know, good 

348
00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:04,880
friend, he he, I like the 
statement. 

349
00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:06,200
He said. 
I wonder what would happen if we

350
00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:09,520
just put a sign up in front of 
above the door post of every 

351
00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:11,880
church saying Jesus said I'm the
way, the truth and the life. 

352
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:14,200
Frankly, we have no idea what 
that means. 

353
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:16,400
But if you want to help us 
figure out, then you're welcome,

354
00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:18,760
right? 
Come and help us figure it out. 

355
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:22,040
Come and bring your human 
experience into this 

356
00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:25,400
conversation and let's discover 
where Jesus is together in that.

357
00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:29,160
Because frankly, we, we just 
don't really know, but we need 

358
00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:31,040
to find out. 
We want it. 

359
00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:34,080
We, we want to find him and what
he's like and where he is and 

360
00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:38,960
what he's doing. 
So for me in engaging with the 

361
00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:42,200
scripture, I feel like I'm, I'm 
engaging with the, the, the, the

362
00:19:42,360 --> 00:19:46,320
journalistic record of the 
Apostolic witness. 

363
00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:50,200
So these are people who are 
telling us what they have 

364
00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:54,920
discovered. 
It's, it's not just come as like

365
00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:57,880
it just dropped out the sky. 
Like Joseph Smith had some 

366
00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:00,640
golden tablets on the ground, 
you know, in Utah or whatever it

367
00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:04,080
was, you know, that, that that 
gave him apparently some new 

368
00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:07,840
revelation, right? 
It's not that or like the the 

369
00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:11,760
Quran where you know, Muhammad 
says I'm just getting a I'm just

370
00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:13,840
automatic. 
Dictating, you know, this, 

371
00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:18,200
channelling this voice, these 
are the the apostles saying, 

372
00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:21,600
look, we have witnessed this, 
we've experienced it, we know 

373
00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:25,360
it's crazy, but this is the 
outcome and all, all of that's 

374
00:20:25,360 --> 00:20:27,160
there. 
It changes how you read the New 

375
00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:29,320
Testament when you read it that 
way, rather than trying to read 

376
00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,400
it like a manual, you know, 
thinking that it's a or a legal 

377
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:35,520
document, which is even worse in
my opinion. 

378
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:40,320
So I want, I want to just throw 
that out. 

379
00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:42,960
We when we're engaging with the 
Scripture, it's this question of

380
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,000
what is it we're looking for? 
How are we looking at the 

381
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,800
Scripture on the Wednesdays and 
in the courses we're doing the, 

382
00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:50,000
the lectures and things we're 
doing with ITTF, we're deep 

383
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,320
diving on that. 
We're covering scriptural, 

384
00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:58,520
historical, philosophical, 
spiritual angles on all kinds of

385
00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:03,480
core things to do with the 
Christian belief and the gospel.

386
00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:06,680
I've got 20 minutes now, so I'm 
not not going to be 

387
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:11,360
comprehensive, but I do want to 
draw some pictures and hopefully

388
00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:14,000
the pictures may speak 1000 
words. 

389
00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:17,720
And I don't know, it's probably 
Shakespeare who said that, 

390
00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:19,120
wasn't it? 
But I was thinking, Alice, you 

391
00:21:19,120 --> 00:21:21,560
know, you're much better off 
reading GK Chessis than the Nazi

392
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:25,120
sprawl. 
So, you know, choosing English 

393
00:21:25,120 --> 00:21:30,640
at university is probably a good
decision if you want to actually

394
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:34,120
come to know Jesus. 
I mean, there's you, you, you at

395
00:21:34,120 --> 00:21:36,080
least it's honest, you know, I 
mean, there's a lot of theology 

396
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:39,560
is really very not honest. 
And I think that, you know, the 

397
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,080
scripture says you desire truth 
in the inward parts. 

398
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:47,920
I feel like the only me that God
cannot bless is the fake me. 

399
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:52,960
So as long as I'm turning up 
fake, then nothing's going to 

400
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,120
happen or or worse, right? 
The bad thing is going to 

401
00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:57,280
happen. 
And the the word hypocrisy in 

402
00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:59,720
the New Testament is a drama 
word, right? 

403
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,720
And it's, it's just to live 
behind the mask. 

404
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:06,520
So the invitation of the gospel 
is towards truth and truth is 

405
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:10,000
also towards OK, getting the 
facade out of the way, the 

406
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:14,400
things that we think we're 
supposed to say do actually to 

407
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:18,040
take that down. 
That was if we're play acting in

408
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:22,960
a certain way, let that go so 
that the truth can actually come

409
00:22:23,120 --> 00:22:25,920
forward. 
And we need to do that until we 

410
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:30,000
actually show up in truth. 
We don't ever really meet Jesus 

411
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:31,520
once. 
Once we show up in truth, we 

412
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:33,560
meet Jesus because he is the 
truth and he's present in the 

413
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:36,040
truth. 
And I think one of the 

414
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:41,680
unfortunate things in a lot of 
church or religious kind of 

415
00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:45,600
spiritual context is that there 
are lots of forces that exert a 

416
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,000
pressure on us to not show up in
the truth. 

417
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:54,760
It's will show up with a Facade,
conceal, hide, cover, don't be 

418
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:56,480
honest. 
And one of the things I have 

419
00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:00,040
pieces of feedback I've had over
over the years running the ITTF 

420
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:04,160
course, consistent pieces of 
feedback is people saying I've 

421
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:08,400
always had XYZ questions and 
I've never really felt like I 

422
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:10,840
could bring those questions to 
the table in the church setting.

423
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:14,480
Those were not allowed. 
There were some questions that 

424
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,760
were just off limits. 
And so I've kind of just muddled

425
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,800
around having those questions, 
but not really having anywhere 

426
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:24,600
to go with them. 
And they, they're reflected on 

427
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:26,440
the fact actually, this course 
has enabled me. 

428
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,680
It's a, it's a safe place to be 
able to have the, the, the 

429
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:31,360
questions. 
I mean, I'm not afraid of 

430
00:23:31,360 --> 00:23:32,680
questions. 
I don't mind you can ask 

431
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,120
whatever. 
And I'm also not afraid of 

432
00:23:35,120 --> 00:23:38,440
anybody taking me out, buying me
a coffee and also asking me 

433
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:42,520
whatever, you know, I used to 
say again, those of you who know

434
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,880
me, no, I started out in St 
evangelism and sometimes, you 

435
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:50,320
know, we would hear all kinds of
choice and colourful terms and 

436
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:52,520
you know, sometimes people would
apologise. 

437
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:54,880
I said, listen, there's 
literally nothing you can say to

438
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:56,280
me that I haven't already heard,
right? 

439
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:58,200
I've been doing this a long 
time. 

440
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,320
Anything you have to ask about 
say or whatever, I've heard it 

441
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:03,360
before. 
So I'm kind of thick skinned on 

442
00:24:03,360 --> 00:24:06,040
that. 
And that's also true as far as 

443
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:09,160
the questions go. 
And I'm not, I'm not intimidated

444
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:13,680
by any question whatsoever. 
And my answer might be I have no

445
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:18,000
flipping clue, but I'm still not
intimidated by by the question. 

446
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:23,360
So please don't be in, don't be 
intimidated about asking 

447
00:24:23,360 --> 00:24:26,680
questions. 
It's just in general, our faith 

448
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:33,160
is not at risk from questions. 
I think for a long time I 

449
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:36,040
thought, and again, it was this 
mentality of all of you go to 

450
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:37,920
university and study theology, 
you'll lose your faith. 

451
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:42,400
I met a lot of those people 
doing Oxford theology courses 

452
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:45,600
was it was a bit of a 
stereotype. 

453
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:47,440
You know, people go and study 
theology at Oxford and lose 

454
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,160
their faith. 
And I had a lot of 

455
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,160
conversations. 
In fact, for me, you know, 

456
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:55,440
again, being an evangelist, when
I first went because Alice, 

457
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:59,880
Chris and I, we crossed over at 
university just about and when I

458
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:02,280
arrived, I was praying, what do 
I do here? 

459
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,440
And I just felt Holy Spirit say,
just put up signs saying is God 

460
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:07,280
supernatural? 
Come and find out in lecture and

461
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:11,040
whatever and pray for the sick. 
And I and I, I went and 

462
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,520
suggested that to my church and 
they're like, no, we don't think

463
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:15,440
you should do that. 
You should do Alpha instead. 

464
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:16,960
We're doing Alpha. 
You get on board with that. 

465
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,280
So it's like, well, OK, I guess 
I've got to listen to my church,

466
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:20,080
right? 
Bad idea. 

467
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,960
Sorry, don't listen, don't 
listen to the Church of the 

468
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:24,720
church is wrong. 
The church was actually wrong. 

469
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,480
I then spent sort of three years
of the most unsuccessful 

470
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,120
unfruitful alpha initiatives 
I've ever come across in my life

471
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,160
until in my 4th year, I came 
round to do you know what, 

472
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:36,240
forget that what they say. 
Let me go with what God said. 

473
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:40,240
So I went and put the signs up. 
Come to lecture 8, you know, and

474
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,320
find out whether or not God's 
supernatural had some of the 

475
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:47,640
most, a couple of the most 
powerful supernatural sovereign 

476
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,120
glory encounters with people 
coming in and getting completely

477
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,480
just annihilated on the floor by
like you're walking into the 

478
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:57,360
thick presence of God blown 
apart completely. 

479
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,120
And then I got into finals and 
had to stop. 

480
00:26:00,120 --> 00:26:01,240
And I thought, gosh, it's a real
shame. 

481
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,040
I didn't listen to Holy Spirit 
3-4 years ago because we could 

482
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:05,480
have been doing this all this 
time. 

483
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:07,320
And I came pretty late to the 
party. 

484
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,240
So I came to the conclusion, you
know, everyone thinks that you 

485
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,360
need to be intellectual to reach
intellectuals exactly wrong. 

486
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:16,280
Like don't, don't try and do 
that. 

487
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:22,480
You know, people need an, an, an
encounter with the risen Jesus. 

488
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,600
They, they certainly don't need 
us to be pulled down to the 

489
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,360
level of, you know, trying to do
this intellectual thing. 

490
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,120
And, you know, I have no problem
with doing the intellectual 

491
00:26:33,120 --> 00:26:35,000
thing exactly. 
But that's not where you're 

492
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:36,880
going to meet Jesus, right? 
You're going to meet him on the 

493
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,680
other side of that. 
And I think that it can also be 

494
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:42,920
a bit of a deflection and a bit 
of a defence, you know, try and 

495
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:47,120
hold Jesus at arm's length by 
just spinning your wheels with 

496
00:26:47,120 --> 00:26:50,400
theory. 
I was in a debate on a podcast 

497
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,840
recently with a theologian who 
frankly, A theologian who I 98% 

498
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,000
agree with, but we just ended up
in a debate on the 2%. 

499
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,000
We didn't. 
It was a fun, it was a fun 

500
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,320
podcast. 
He, he's good humoured and all 

501
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:02,760
the rest. 
But I said, you know, I said, I 

502
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:04,960
think one of the things you need
to learn to do is watch horror 

503
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:06,680
movies. 
I said to him, so you don't, 

504
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,520
you're a theologian. 
You're kind of, I have to say 

505
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:11,640
you're a professional 
theologian. 

506
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:15,360
You spend your, you spend your 
life in the ivory tower of the 

507
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:17,200
Academy. 
And I lived in a theology school

508
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,280
for six years. 
I know, right? 

509
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:23,680
You're there. 
And what you're speaking about 

510
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:25,840
feels to me to be very divorced 
from reality. 

511
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,760
And I get that, you know, we're 
in the sort of sanitised Western

512
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:31,760
world and all the rest. 
So, you know, you've got 

513
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:33,280
Halloween's coming up. 
You know, you could watch some 

514
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,040
horror movies and it might 
actually ground you and connect 

515
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,360
you back with the, the real 
lived experience of people on 

516
00:27:38,360 --> 00:27:41,200
this planet, which for many of 
which is far worse than anything

517
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,400
you're going to see on any, on 
any horror movie, right? 

518
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,640
And anyway, that was, he wasn't 
expecting me to say that, but we

519
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:50,600
had, we had a good kind of back 
and forward around it. 

520
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:58,480
But my, my point is Jesus wants 
to meet us in the reality, 

521
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,400
right? 
And the questions and the 

522
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,920
arguments and all of this stuff 
is not intimidating at all to 

523
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:05,680
him. 
And if you, if you're afraid of 

524
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,320
those, you don't need to be. 
I understand why you might be 

525
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:10,800
apprehensive about certain 
things. 

526
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,360
I know there are people who 
refuse to come and meet with me.

527
00:28:13,360 --> 00:28:18,480
They disagree with me from the 
from the safe distance of behind

528
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,160
their keyboard. 
They disagree with me there, but

529
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:27,040
they will never accept my 
invitation to meet in person. 

530
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:29,800
And I know the reason they won't
is because they know if they sit

531
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,120
down with me, they'll walk out 
and not be able to maintain the 

532
00:28:32,120 --> 00:28:35,360
views that they're holding. 
They know that and they're 

533
00:28:35,360 --> 00:28:38,920
afraid of that and they're 
worried about it because they 

534
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:42,080
are desperately holding on to 
something that is giving them a 

535
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,920
sense of security and they're 
afraid about letting go of it. 

536
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:46,840
And I know that because that 
used to be me. 

537
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:50,880
I, I used to exactly be there. 
So I'm trying to say to them, 

538
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:53,440
listen, it's all right, you 
know, come, we'll have a nice 

539
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:55,800
conversation. 
I'll, you know, but if you're 

540
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,720
coming at me in public, I'm 
afraid I'm going to have to take

541
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,040
you down in public. 
And that's why they sort of hide

542
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,080
behind the keyboard, right? 
But, but that does happen. 

543
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,480
You know, I know people are, are
afraid of the, the questions. 

544
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:07,760
They think, oh, it's going to 
make me confused. 

545
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:09,480
It's going to make me lose my 
faith or something. 

546
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:14,760
And then then they they might 
call me a call me a snake or 

547
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:16,040
something. 
That's that's a fun one. 

548
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,760
It's like, well, you know, cool.
And I can go with that snake. 

549
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:24,680
Snake is the word serif in the 
in the, in the Hebrew, you know,

550
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:28,480
I mean, the serif was the most 
senior of the angelic being. 

551
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:30,720
So yeah, I'll take that one, you
know. 

552
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:36,000
But anyway, we don't need to be 
afraid, right? 

553
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:38,960
There's No Fear in love. 
Perfect love casts out all fear.

554
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,520
In fact, I think it's very 
interesting that the Scripture 

555
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:43,760
at one point, I think it's in 
the book of Hebrews, describes 

556
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,200
the mission of Jesus in the 
following terms. 

557
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:55,640
It says he came to destroy him, 
who by means of the fear of 

558
00:29:55,640 --> 00:30:01,840
death, kept us captive to death.
It's interesting Jesus came to 

559
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,880
destroy him. 
Brackets, the devil came to 

560
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:09,720
destroy him, who by means of the
fear of death, kept us captive 

561
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,640
to death. 
Can you plug that back into the 

562
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:15,280
four spiritual laws for me for a
moment? 

563
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:21,120
So fear of death holds us 
captive to death. 

564
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,200
Satan holds the power of the 
fear. 

565
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,960
So our attachment to death, 
which is the thing we, we don't 

566
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,080
want, right. 
You go back to the story of the 

567
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:31,760
garden. 
The curse comes in the form of 

568
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:37,600
death and he doesn't it doesn't 
say he came to get us away from 

569
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:41,280
death by judicially declaring us
innocent in the judges courtroom

570
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,920
so that we don't get receive the
penalty of death. 

571
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,880
He said through fear of death we
are held captive to death and 

572
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:51,840
Jesus has come to destroy the 
one who influences us by means 

573
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:55,920
of that fear. 
So when John says there is No 

574
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:58,280
Fear in love, but perfect love 
casts out all fear, the one who 

575
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:00,320
fears is not made perfect in 
love and God is love. 

576
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:02,680
Fear has to do with punishment. 
Fear has to do with judgement. 

577
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:06,440
You put those together, I think 
it you think, hang on a minute, 

578
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,000
what gospel have I been thinking
about? 

579
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:14,600
You know, this is something that
is very much rooted in in the 

580
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:18,800
truth, the reality of our inner 
world that then manifests as in 

581
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,040
our outer world through 
behaviour and action and culture

582
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:23,200
and all of these things too. 
And the stories we tell about 

583
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,600
that really, really matter. 
And they're like coloured lenses

584
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:30,000
that we put on and they enable 
us to see through that 

585
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,400
particular philtre. 
Only, you know, you wear blue 

586
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,960
lenses, everything looks blue. 
You wear red lenses, everything 

587
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,280
looks red. 
And one of the things we were 

588
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:41,000
singing about in the worship 
today was about Jesus. 

589
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:45,920
Give us vision, right? 
We want to see how you see, not 

590
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:50,080
through the distorted lenses of 
the stories that we've been told

591
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:53,560
of the, the ideas that we've 
been holding onto. 

592
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:56,960
You see, Paul had such a 
reconfiguration of his thinking 

593
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:00,160
that he was able to say there is
nothing that exists or could 

594
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,400
exist that can separate you from
the love of God. 

595
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:04,960
He was able to say that with 
absolute conviction. 

596
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:10,320
He he did not start out able to 
say that something happened to 

597
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:12,720
him, a process happened to him 
whereby he was able to see that.

598
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,640
And that was a process called 
repentance, right metanoia, a 

599
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:17,280
renewal or a transformation of 
the mind. 

600
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,880
In fact, it was Paul also 
himself who said you will be 

601
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,960
transformed by the renewing of 
your mind. 

602
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,240
That's how this thing happens. 
As your mind gets straightened 

603
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,400
out, the way that you think 
about things get straightened 

604
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,080
out, then transformation 
follows. 

605
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,120
This is a very inside out 
process, right? 

606
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,480
It's from the inward to the 
outward. 

607
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:43,400
So in my last few minutes, I 
want to try and put this in 

608
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:48,000
picture form in a way that can 
whet your appetite for more and 

609
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,200
feed in perhaps our discussion 
on Wednesday as well. 

610
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:54,040
So I became a Christian at 15. 
I went straight into evangelism 

611
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,800
on the street and spent eight 
years doing that. 

612
00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:00,960
At one point in an evangelistic 
mission, I had a little booklet 

613
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:02,800
called Love is a Bridge. 
Do you remember that one? 

614
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:04,720
Love is the Bridge, John's 
Gospel and some stuff at the 

615
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:06,000
start. 
And when I read it, I suddenly 

616
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,680
had this epiphany that I'd read 
it before and I'd read it when I

617
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:13,520
was about 5 or 6 years old and 
someone had given me one and I 

618
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,040
suddenly was transported back to
I had this. 

619
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:18,520
I read it. 
I remember being in a room in my

620
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:20,480
house and praying the sinner's 
prayer and doing all these kind 

621
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:21,640
of things when I was much 
younger. 

622
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,120
So this is a kind of interesting
moment for me because I had no 

623
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:26,680
recollection of that until the 
point when I picked up this 

624
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:28,200
thing and I realised I'd read it
before. 

625
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,720
And you know, great. 
We did, we did, we did a lot 

626
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:36,240
with those tracks. 
Fantastic, you know, but there's

627
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:38,760
a there's a time to just run 
with it and there's a time to 

628
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,240
stop and think, hang on, what is
it we're running with and can we

629
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:45,200
do better? 
So we are often used to this 

630
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,560
kind of this kind of 
perspective, right? 

631
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:54,040
If you've seen this, you've seen
this before, you've got God is 

632
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:59,800
here on one side of the equation
and we are here over here, us 

633
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:06,320
and there's this chasm in 
between and how did we get here 

634
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:08,719
on this side when God created 
us? 

635
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,840
Well, there's something to do 
with snakes and apples and 

636
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:15,679
whatever in the garden. 
What are we are we, do we 

637
00:34:15,679 --> 00:34:17,480
actually believe in that 
literally or is it symbolic? 

638
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,880
Something happened to do with 
Adam and Eve, whatever that 

639
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:22,679
means. 
Something happened to put us 

640
00:34:22,679 --> 00:34:24,679
here. 
And now if you're a human being 

641
00:34:24,679 --> 00:34:27,360
and if you're born, you're born 
on this side of the of the of 

642
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:32,199
the chasm, right? 
You're born there and that's a 

643
00:34:32,199 --> 00:34:37,000
problem because God's over here 
and all these different ways 

644
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:40,120
that we can conceptualise what 
that means depending on what 

645
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,719
particular, you know, flavour of
the tradition you're coming 

646
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:44,400
from. 
Are you there because God is 

647
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:46,520
wrathful with you over there? 
Are you there because, well, he 

648
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,560
loves you, but he can't really 
do anything about it because 

649
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,280
he's a consuming fire and you'll
burn up if you come near him. 

650
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,840
So he has to withdraw himself 
or, you know, all these kind of 

651
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:57,200
different ways to think about 
it. 

652
00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,800
But then we say, OK, but isn't 
it great though? 

653
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:03,440
Here comes Jesus and, and here's
the cross and the cross kind of 

654
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:08,760
goes like this and it, it 
bridges the gap like that so 

655
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,560
that we happily can, you know, 
hop, skip in a jump, come back 

656
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:17,880
over here to, to God, right? 
And, and maybe people write 

657
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:20,840
Jesus there in the middle, you 
know, so there's this idea. 

658
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:24,680
Love is the bridge, right? 
So here's Jesus and Jesus is the

659
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:28,480
bridge and the bridge is the 
cross because, oh, OK, well, 

660
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:30,960
it's in the in the death of 
Jesus that the atonement happens

661
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:33,320
somehow. 
And that's often thought of in 

662
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,000
punitive terms. 
OK, well, we all deserve to die 

663
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,000
over here. 
Someone's got to pay. 

664
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:40,800
Well, Jesus dies instead. 
So OK, that's good. 

665
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:44,000
That's paid now. 
And so that's kind of closed the

666
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,800
gap and is meant we can then get
back over to God. 

667
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:49,160
And then of course, everyone 
argues about, well, what are the

668
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:52,840
steps to crossover from here to 
here? 

669
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:55,800
What are the different things? 
Do you have to believe a certain

670
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,080
thing, confess a certain thing, 
pray in a certain way? 

671
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:00,400
Do you need to be baptised? 
Do you need to take the 

672
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,080
sacraments? 
Do you need to persevere or can 

673
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:08,520
you go, can you go like the 
hokey cokey in and out, right. 

674
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:10,840
All of these other questions, 
loads and loads of debates. 

675
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,840
Well, were you predestined to 
come this way or is it your free

676
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,840
choice? 
You know, all, all of that is 

677
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:24,400
there in the mix and with lots 
of different riffing that takes 

678
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:26,680
place over this kind of picture.
And it's quite, it's quite a 

679
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:29,320
convenient picture because when 
particularly when you're going 

680
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:30,960
out on the street, you're 
talking to people who know that 

681
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,120
they're in a mess, right. 
It's not hard to convince them 

682
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:35,440
that they're over here. 
Oh, yeah, definitely my life's 

683
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:36,040
in a mess. 
Yeah. 

684
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:38,040
Well, if God's around, 
definitely is not with me. 

685
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:42,440
Not, not hard to speak to that 
and then sell them away to get 

686
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:44,480
from here to here. 
Not it is. 

687
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:47,680
It really isn't that hard. 
I spent a lot of time doing it. 

688
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,680
In fact, you know, if you're 
good at selling, you can, you 

689
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:52,960
can sell this one. 
Guys, listen, I know it sounds 

690
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:55,000
really bad right now, but look, 
really, really good news. 

691
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:57,080
All you really need to do is 
just pray this prayer, right? 

692
00:36:57,560 --> 00:36:59,520
Pray the prayer or the 
questionnaire thing. 

693
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:02,040
Do you remember that when those 
guys came and they thought we 

694
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,400
were having revival because they
reinvented questionnaire 

695
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:06,760
evangelism from the 1980s and 
they called it the turning. 

696
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:10,800
And I said to Chris, my 
stomach's turning and they they 

697
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:12,320
take them down. 
And at the end, you know, they 

698
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:13,640
pretend like they're doing a 
survey. 

699
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:15,920
It's like trick them in a bit 
like chuggers, you know, the 

700
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,760
charity mode trick you in that 
you're having a conversation and

701
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:19,960
they want to close the deal at 
the end. 

702
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,000
And if everybody knows where 
it's going, right. 

703
00:37:22,240 --> 00:37:25,960
And at the bottom, they say, now
if you, if you were able to know

704
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:27,840
God personally, would you be 
interested? 

705
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:30,120
And then they're ticking the box
and saying, well, yeah, I 

706
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:31,800
suppose I would like to know God
personally. 

707
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:32,920
Yeah, I suppose that sounds 
good. 

708
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:34,120
So. 
OK, tick the box. 

709
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:35,960
All right. 
Well, here's how you can do it. 

710
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:38,480
You know, now I've closed you 
down on that. 

711
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:40,320
You've said to me that you want 
to know him personally. 

712
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:42,480
Here's how you can answer. 
Just pray this prayer after me. 

713
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:44,640
Well, yeah, I guess. 
I suppose I can just pray that 

714
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:46,480
prayer. 
I mean, I've just been out 

715
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:48,760
shopping, but I don't know. 
I don't know of all the 

716
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:50,360
implications of that. 
Yeah, I can pray the prayer. 

717
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:51,120
Fine. 
Amazing. 

718
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:51,920
Fantastic. 
Tick. 

719
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:53,280
And then it goes back and gets 
reported. 

720
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:54,800
Amazing. 
We had 57 people become 

721
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:59,160
Christians today in Broadmead, 
you know, and then it gets 

722
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:02,560
reported back into the, you 
know, the, the national sales 

723
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:04,720
forecasts and sales and 
marketing forecasts. 

724
00:38:04,720 --> 00:38:06,760
Those, those numbers turn over 
quite nicely. 

725
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:10,080
And then we can, we can have a 
good conference about it and we 

726
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:13,600
can have a good speaking tour 
about how fantastic this method 

727
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:15,920
is of getting people to sign up 
on the on the dotted line. 

728
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:20,360
And meanwhile, the rest of us 
are looking around saying, has 

729
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:24,000
anything changed in this in this
environment because of this 

730
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,400
activity, other than a whole 
bunch of people getting excited 

731
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:28,920
about an activity that two weeks
from now they're not going to be

732
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:30,880
doing anymore. 
And then they'll be a little bit

733
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:32,640
more disappointed than when it 
started, right? 

734
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:36,320
My stomach's turning. 
Anyway. 

735
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:38,280
I mean, that one, that was a bit
faddish. 

736
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:40,880
It disappeared quite quickly. 
And then again, some years from 

737
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,360
now, someone else will unearth 
questionnaire evangelism as the 

738
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:47,320
new latest amazing thing that's 
going to kind of bring revival 

739
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:50,480
anyway. 
Lots of different ways. 

740
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:54,000
If you really want this to work,
then just really turn up the 

741
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,080
heat on them. 
If you were to die tonight, 

742
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:57,640
would you know where you're 
going to go? 

743
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:00,600
What if you were to walk out and
get hit by a truck right now? 

744
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:03,360
I said that to a friend of mine 
in universe. 

745
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:06,040
Look, I know, I know you're kind
of sort of think this is a bit 

746
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:08,280
funny, but if you were to walk 
out and get hit by a truck right

747
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:10,880
now and he just, he goes, yeah, 
yeah, that, that would be 

748
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:15,280
unfortunate. 
He said, I said like, don't 

749
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:18,400
wait, seal the deal right now. 
Like pray that pray you don't 

750
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:20,920
know when a meteorite might fall
out of the sky and like splat 

751
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:23,640
you right. 
Anything could happen and you, 

752
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:25,720
you could be gone. 
Like now is the day of the 

753
00:39:25,720 --> 00:39:27,320
salvation. 
The Bible says not tomorrow. 

754
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:29,520
So get with the programme now. 
This might be your last chance. 

755
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:30,960
Come on. 
I've done it. 

756
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:33,040
I've done the crosswalking 
through the centre of town. 

757
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:35,800
I've done the get up on the on 
the the PA system. 

758
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,160
You know, in fact, other people 
I was on the PA system with, I 

759
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:41,840
thought they were too soft core.
I said no, I you're not being 

760
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,160
hardcore enough. 
If you want the shoppers to to 

761
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:46,640
really pay attention to you, you
have to tell them about eternal 

762
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:48,520
conscious torment in a blazing 
fire of hell. 

763
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,400
That's the only way you're going
to get them to listen because 

764
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:53,400
they're busy doing their thing 
and they don't want to listen to

765
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:54,840
you. 
You absolutely have to terrify 

766
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:59,240
them to get their attention. 
I'm speaking from experience. 

767
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:04,520
Anyway, here's this now let me 
just give you a different, let 

768
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:07,000
me give you a different picture 
and I'll leave it. 

769
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:09,080
I'll leave you, leave it with 
you to. 

770
00:40:10,240 --> 00:40:13,400
Contemplate and then you can 
come and then be angry with me 

771
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:17,480
on on Wednesday. 
I've taken the same to people. 

772
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:20,960
You know, it's not OK if you're 
afraid by what I'm saying, but 

773
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:24,200
it's absolutely fine if you're 
angry with what I'm saying. 

774
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:26,880
One of the reasons we get angry 
is when we realised, you know 

775
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:31,240
what, I've been really sold a 
crop for the last 30 years and 

776
00:40:31,240 --> 00:40:33,320
I've invested an awful lot of 
time in something. 

777
00:40:33,720 --> 00:40:35,440
And hang on a second. 
Wait a minute. 

778
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:39,960
You mean I didn't need to 
alienate my whole family by the 

779
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:41,680
fact that I was so afraid that 
they were going to go to hell? 

780
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:42,200
Absolutely. 
Right. 

781
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:45,120
Now that I at Christmas dinner, 
I stood up and I told them so. 

782
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:46,760
And now nobody wants to talk to 
me. 

783
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,280
You mean that 20 years ago I 
didn't need to do that and kind 

784
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:50,640
of wrecked the wrecked the 
relationship? 

785
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:53,760
I'm speaking from experienced 
people. 

786
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:56,000
I'm not. 
I'm not talking hypotheticals 

787
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:56,520
here. 
Right. 

788
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:00,960
I'm not talking hypotheticals. 
Yeah. 

789
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:05,040
So let me give you let me give 
you another, another version 

790
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:07,520
that I think is a better version
of the story. 

791
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:09,800
I think it's better because I 
happen to think it's true and I 

792
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:11,200
happen to think the other one 
isn't true. 

793
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:14,480
But you know, if you're not 
ready to go with me there, at 

794
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:16,880
least consider a better version 
of the story. 

795
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:21,360
Also also looks like this, but 
I'm just for the sake of 

796
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:23,080
argument, I'm going to put a 
bottom on that because it's not 

797
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:25,760
really bottomless. 
It feels bottomless, but it's 

798
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:31,000
not really right. 
And now I'm going to put God up 

799
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:36,760
here again, but I'll just say 
Father, Son in spirit, so we're 

800
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:41,440
not confused as to what God 
we're talking about. 

801
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:44,640
Oh, but I'm going to put us down
here. 

802
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:50,840
All right? 
This is the biblical picture of 

803
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,600
our problem. 
All God's on one side and we're 

804
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:55,360
on the other side. 
You know, The thing is about 

805
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:57,920
being on the other side. 
Well, OK, I stole a paper clip 

806
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,920
when I was 11. 
That was a sin, so that's enough

807
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:02,320
to qualify me to be on the other
side. 

808
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:05,320
Did the paper clip, did the 
stealing of the paper clip harm 

809
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:06,160
anybody? 
No. 

810
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:08,000
Did anyone miss the paper clip? 
No. 

811
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:10,360
Was I trying to be malicious 
with a paper clip? 

812
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:12,120
No, doesn't matter. 
It was stealing. 

813
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:14,000
You broke the 10 commandments, 
you're going to hell. 

814
00:42:14,240 --> 00:42:17,080
You're on that side, right? 
Ray Comfort style of you know 

815
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:21,640
who that cat is. 
So that's, that's that picture 

816
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:24,080
right here. 
How about this one again, 

817
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:25,920
starting in the same place. 
Something happened. 

818
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:29,800
I didn't really understand the 
details of it, but something 

819
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:31,760
happened where we we did not 
begin here. 

820
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:36,520
We've begun here in the heart of
the, the, the oneness of the 

821
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:38,960
father, son and spirit from time
immemorial. 

822
00:42:39,240 --> 00:42:45,480
They dreamed us up and said it 
was very, very good with a good 

823
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:48,360
purpose. 
Every individual knit together 

824
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:51,520
in the mother's womb. 
This is where we begin. 

825
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:55,400
Something happens. 
It's kind of mysterious. 

826
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:58,040
In fact, the Bible calls it the 
mystery of lawlessness, right? 

827
00:42:58,720 --> 00:43:01,120
The, the chaos and sin and these
things. 

828
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:04,000
It is kind of irrational. 
I haven't really got a good 

829
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:07,000
answer for it, but we've got 
some stories about it, right? 

830
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:10,680
Something happened and that took
us down here, right? 

831
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:18,960
And down here we've got fear, 
we've got jealousy with an A in 

832
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:20,280
it because I didn't study 
English. 

833
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:24,120
Jealousy. 
We've got rage, we've got abuse,

834
00:43:24,720 --> 00:43:36,840
we've got war, greed, we've got 
self hatred, we've got suicide, 

835
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:43,840
addiction. 
All of these pathologies, right,

836
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:46,760
that come under the banner of, 
you know, you want, you want to 

837
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:53,680
call it sin. 
All that we are down here in the

838
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:56,800
mess, right at the bottom, the 
bottom of the chasm. 

839
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:01,160
God's rejected us. 
God's abandoned us. 

840
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,680
We're, we're alone. 
We've got to figure this thing 

841
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:07,480
out for ourselves. 
We've got to try and engineer 

842
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:11,120
some way to make this mess down 
here a little bit better or the 

843
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:12,680
cynical ones. 
Well, we can't make that better 

844
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:14,000
for other people. 
So we're just going to try and 

845
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:17,040
make it better for ourselves. 
Accumulate wealth, hoard power, 

846
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:19,760
do whatever we can to just make 
this a little bit more tolerable

847
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:22,760
down here at the at the bottom 
of the pit, right? 

848
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:28,640
We're all down here and in the 
middle of this, the Father, Son 

849
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:36,160
and Spirit say we can not 
tolerate beloved children, our 

850
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:40,560
creation, in the dissolution and
dissipation that is down here. 

851
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:43,760
They won't listen to us. 
In fact, they can't listen to us

852
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:45,560
because it's got so dark down 
there. 

853
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:50,680
They can't even recognise who we
are without the distortion of 

854
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:53,120
their own issues, their own 
problems. 

855
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:55,800
They project the abusive father 
onto US. 

856
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:58,000
They project the absent mother 
onto US. 

857
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:01,080
They look at earthquakes and 
disease and all of these things.

858
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:04,120
I think, well, that must be 
divine judgement for us doing 

859
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:05,840
bad things. 
So then they sacrifice because 

860
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:07,800
of fear. 
They're going to human sacrifice

861
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:12,440
or other kind of crazy nonsense.
To think that maybe they could 

862
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:15,240
do something to prove themselves
worthy to climb back up to here,

863
00:45:15,240 --> 00:45:17,080
because this is all about 
worthiness to them. 

864
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:20,640
They're judging it as well. 
Who's who's got relative merit? 

865
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:22,240
Which one's higher than the 
other? 

866
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:25,800
Which one has proved themselves 
more worthy of this divine thing

867
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:27,200
up here? 
And they create these 

868
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:30,000
hierarchies. 
And who can we follow? 

869
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:33,400
Who can give us the way out down
here? 

870
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:35,240
All in the dark. 
And what does Jesus say? 

871
00:45:35,240 --> 00:45:37,360
He says all who came before me 
are thieves and liars. 

872
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:39,120
They have no idea what they were
talking about. 

873
00:45:39,240 --> 00:45:42,600
None of them. 
All who came before me, I don't 

874
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:44,680
know what that says about the 
prophets, but he said all who 

875
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:46,760
came before me, I don't know if 
you want to take Jesus literally

876
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:49,480
or not, but he said all who came
before me are thieves and liars 

877
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:54,760
right down here in the Mass. 
And here's what they're going to

878
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:56,600
do. 
They're going to say that the 

879
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:00,520
Father, Son, and Spirit, by the 
way, live in eternal oneness. 

880
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:02,440
They cannot be divided. 
They're indivisible, 

881
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:06,280
inseparable. 
But the Son, the Word, becomes 

882
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:12,760
flesh and dwells among us and 
within us as us. 

883
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:18,200
The sun is going to go down 
right to the bottom of the 

884
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:21,440
bottomless pit. 
The sun is going to make contact

885
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:24,960
with us in our suffering, 
dysfunction, and sin. 

886
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:27,640
It's not just the Word became 
human, it's the Word became 

887
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:28,960
flesh, right? 
Sarks. 

888
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:31,440
It's the bad word for humanity, 
not the good Word, right? 

889
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:36,440
He takes on and He doesn't 
become sarks the moment he's 

890
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:39,480
crucified. 
He becomes Sox the moment he's 

891
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:42,040
Incarnate in the womb of the 
Virgin. 

892
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:45,960
And the angels declare peace on 
earth and goodwill to the human 

893
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:48,400
race. 
That was the word that was 

894
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:52,040
spoken over his birth right, the
Annunciation of the angels. 

895
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:55,080
Peace on earth and goodwill. 
How can it be peace on earth and

896
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:56,600
goodwill? 
Look at what's going on down 

897
00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:58,560
here. 
God, can't you see the horrific 

898
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:01,000
mass that's taking place here? 
The angels are saying. 

899
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:04,320
But look, the people walking in 
darkness have seen a great light

900
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:07,320
here. 
The light has dawned right in 

901
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:09,560
the centre of the darkness. 
It's not that. 

902
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:12,560
The lights over here beckoning 
us to crossover. 

903
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:14,280
OK, I can see the lights over 
there. 

904
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:16,480
I can kind of find my way to get
to it. 

905
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:20,680
The light has come right down 
into the bottom of the 

906
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:25,160
bottomless pit. 
And not only that, that light 

907
00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:29,760
has gone all the way to death, 
even beyond earthly existence, 

908
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:33,240
into the very grave itself. 
And not only death, but the most

909
00:47:33,240 --> 00:47:34,960
horrific death. 
Because the question isn't why 

910
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:37,160
did Jesus die? 
If it was about dying, He could 

911
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:40,120
have just killed over and had a 
heart attack if it was about 

912
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:41,200
that. 
So why does he? 

913
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:42,880
Why did he die the way that he 
did? 

914
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:46,280
He died the way that we did 
because that is what the sum 

915
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:49,200
total of all of this down here 
inflicted upon him. 

916
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:55,160
In that moment of the cross, 
every act of human sin and 

917
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:58,080
suffering that ever was and ever
would be was brought to Ground 

918
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:01,440
Zero. 
The cross is the son of God's 

919
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:05,600
connection and identification 
with every single piece of human

920
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:09,960
dysfunction and brokenness is 
when the when the, the, the, you

921
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:12,800
know, the addict is putting the 
needle in the arm, that's there.

922
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:19,560
When the the abusive husband is 
beating the wife within an inch 

923
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:24,080
of her life, that's there. 
When the gas is turned on in the

924
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:28,880
gas chamber, that's there 
connected to the cross that he 

925
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:31,400
is gathered. 
And Jesus says in John's gospel,

926
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:34,280
when I am lifted up, I will draw
all to myself. 

927
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:36,440
And it's interesting. 
He doesn't even qualify the all.

928
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:40,960
He doesn't even say all people. 
He says all, meaning all of all,

929
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:44,440
everything that is every atom in
the universe, past, present and 

930
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:48,320
future is being brought to the 
Ground Zero of the cross, which 

931
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:50,880
is why the sun goes out, right? 
In Matthew's Gospel, you 

932
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:53,160
remember the sun goes out. 
They used to say. 

933
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:54,960
We used to say, well, the sun 
goes out because the Father 

934
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:57,280
turns his face away, not 
realising we just committed 

935
00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:59,720
idolatry, right? 
That at that, at no point is the

936
00:48:59,720 --> 00:49:04,440
sun in the sky, the shining sun 
connected with the face of the 

937
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:06,600
Father in the Scripture. 
In fact, that's sun worship. 

938
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:10,520
It's the opposite, right? 
We said, oh, well, the son is 

939
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:11,560
the father turning his face 
away. 

940
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:15,160
No, the sun goes out because the
very word who upholds the 

941
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:19,000
existence of the sun just died. 
So what happens to the sun when 

942
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:23,040
its power source dies? 
Well, the sun dies too, until 

943
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:27,880
it's raised again, right? 
So in the Son of God descending 

944
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:30,200
into everything that we are, 
everything that we've done, 

945
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:34,080
identifying himself with it 
fully in our experience, not 

946
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:37,080
just in a in the sense of being 
up here telling us this is the 

947
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:40,440
way out, but coming and fully 
taking it into his own body. 

948
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:43,520
And he doesn't just take it in 
because he takes in he takes in 

949
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:47,440
because we put it there right. 
We are the ones who nail him. 

950
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:49,320
If you can see it. 
We nailed him to the cross. 

951
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:52,920
Remember Mel Gibson's film The 
Passion and the hand that's 

952
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:57,280
nailing Jesus's hand into the, 
the the the nail Mel Gibson was 

953
00:49:57,280 --> 00:49:59,960
like, that has to be my hand. 
I'm going to do it. 

954
00:49:59,960 --> 00:50:03,600
He was making a point. 
He was saying all of human sin 

955
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:07,000
across all ages is what came 
onto the cross right there. 

956
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:10,640
All of it was put on him. 
And what does he say at the very

957
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:14,000
peak of his suffering, which 
John calls his glorification or 

958
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:17,480
his coronation, the very peak of
his suffering, he says, father, 

959
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:21,040
forgive them that they don't 
know what they do. 

960
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:25,680
He pronounces absolution from 
the cross because Jesus doesn't 

961
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:27,400
pray a prayer that doesn't get 
answered right. 

962
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:30,800
When Jesus says father forgive 
them, the Father answers the 

963
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:32,240
prayer. 
He doesn't not answer the 

964
00:50:32,240 --> 00:50:34,480
prayer. 
And by the way, the Son can only

965
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:36,520
do what he sees the Father doing
and he can only say what he 

966
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:38,080
hears. 
So when he says Father forgive 

967
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:40,680
him, he is also perfectly 
reflecting the heart and the 

968
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:43,320
will and the attitude of the 
Father because there's not a, 

969
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:46,000
there's not some kind of 
schizophrenia going on here. 

970
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:50,320
God brackets the Father was in 
Christ reconciling the world to 

971
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:52,040
himself. 
The Father was here too. 

972
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:54,560
Jesus says if you've seen me, 
you have seen the Father. 

973
00:50:55,120 --> 00:50:56,960
Wait a minute. 
We thought if we saw the face of

974
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:58,600
the Father, we'd spontaneously 
combust. 

975
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:02,160
Apparently not. 
Because Philip, you've been face

976
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:04,480
to face with me the whole time. 
You haven't spontaneously 

977
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:06,480
combusted. 
Think of the fear thing again. 

978
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:08,520
I'm going to finish with this. 
When the apostle Peter first 

979
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:10,840
meets Jesus, he says go away 
from me, Lord, you're a sinful, 

980
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:13,080
I'm a sinful man. 
Go away from me, Lord. 

981
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:14,600
Why? 
He's terrified. 

982
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:17,480
He's terrified if he gets around
the holy God or anyone who is 

983
00:51:17,720 --> 00:51:20,400
someone who's really close to 
God, that that might burn him, 

984
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:23,880
right? 
Within months, Peter's arguing 

985
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:25,840
and saying, who's going to be 
the greatest in the Kingdom of 

986
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:27,240
heaven? 
Maybe I get to sit on the right 

987
00:51:27,240 --> 00:51:30,040
hand. 
What does 6-7 months do hanging 

988
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:33,680
out with Jesus to a man who is 
so weighed down by guilt, fear, 

989
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:35,200
and sin? 
He's like, I can't even get in 

990
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:38,200
the presence of the holy Rabbi 
or I'm going to spontaneously 

991
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:41,720
combust to. 
I might actually have a shot at 

992
00:51:41,720 --> 00:51:44,880
being the top, the top honcho in
heaven's hierarchy. 

993
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:48,000
That's what hanging out with 
Jesus does to him, right? 

994
00:51:48,720 --> 00:51:51,160
Hanging out, hanging out with 
Jesus creates A metanoia and 

995
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:54,040
repentance, A transformation to 
the point that this guy's mind 

996
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:57,320
is so completely blown. 
He's no longer like, Oh, I'm I'm

997
00:51:57,360 --> 00:51:58,840
could go away from me, Lord of a
simple man. 

998
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:01,160
He's like, no, I'm going all the
way you. 

999
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:02,720
I will never abandoned you, 
Jesus. 

1000
00:52:02,720 --> 00:52:04,360
And of course, we know how that 
ended up there, right? 

1001
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:07,240
But the, but the point is, look 
at the effect that hanging 

1002
00:52:07,240 --> 00:52:10,280
around Jesus had on him. 
His yoke is easy. 

1003
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:12,040
His burden is light. 
It's liberating. 

1004
00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:16,200
It's lifting off the years and 
the generation upon generation 

1005
00:52:16,240 --> 00:52:20,040
of weight and guilt and shame 
and BS that's been put on these 

1006
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:23,800
guys, hanging around with Jesus,
detoxing them, curing them. 

1007
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:28,080
He comes down not to suffer for 
us. 

1008
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:32,680
He comes down to suffer as us. 
For as much as you do to the 

1009
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:37,840
least of these, you do to me 
because I am in them and they in

1010
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:42,200
me, because I, I was the one who
had the thought of them in the 

1011
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:44,480
first place. 
And I'm the one who sustained 

1012
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:47,240
their life and I'm the one who 
dipped them together in their 

1013
00:52:47,240 --> 00:52:50,320
womb and who who had a good 
purpose for them in creating 

1014
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:52,720
them. 
And I'm coming to show you that 

1015
00:52:52,720 --> 00:52:57,320
there is nothing that exists 
down here that can create 

1016
00:52:57,320 --> 00:53:01,000
separation. 
That's why Paul can say nothing 

1017
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:03,640
can separate us from the love of
God because he understands that 

1018
00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:06,880
what's going on in the cross is 
the sum total of all human 

1019
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:10,200
depravity directed at Jesus at 
that moment. 

1020
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:13,200
And at that very moment he says,
Father, forgive them. 

1021
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:16,880
He pronounces the absolution. 
So he's able to say beyond a 

1022
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:20,120
shadow of a doubt, well, the 
worst thing you could ever do, 

1023
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:22,440
you already did it was crucify 
Jesus. 

1024
00:53:22,720 --> 00:53:25,120
If you can recognise that and 
wake up to that, then welcome to

1025
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:27,680
being a Christian. 
Thank you very much. 

1026
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:36,520
See you Wednesday. 
Thank you so much. 

1027
00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:39,680
Welcome back. 
All the children you see more 

1028
00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:42,120
clearly than the rest of us. 
So it's great to have you in 

1029
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:45,240
here. 
I am just going to lead us in a 

1030
00:53:45,240 --> 00:53:52,320
prayer now. 
No, we're just, we're just so 

1031
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:56,360
grateful that you always want 
to. 

1032
00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:02,400
You're always wanting to include
us and draw us in. 

1033
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:08,320
You love our participation, You 
love reaching out in 

1034
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:12,160
relationship. 
And we just believe so many lies

1035
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:18,560
and we resist it so often but we
repent of that. 

1036
00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:31,850
We have a change of mindset. 
We want to believe that nothing 

1037
00:54:32,490 --> 00:54:36,610
in all creation, unseen and seen
realm can separate us from your 

1038
00:54:36,610 --> 00:54:44,160
love. 
And that we want a true 

1039
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:50,320
enlightenment that enlightens us
as to the reality of that, 

1040
00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:53,880
however young we are in this 
room, that we know deeply and 

1041
00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:56,720
profoundly how loved we are and 
how old we are. 

1042
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:05,480
When you reveal to us the 
reality of what you're like, how

1043
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:09,640
you see us. 
And I think that the natural 

1044
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:12,680
conclusion will be, and this is 
what we'll be wrestling with, 

1045
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:20,600
how you see everyone else. 
Help us to see clearly through 

1046
00:55:20,720 --> 00:55:23,200
your lens, the lens of how you 
see people. 

1047
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:32,160
And we just continue to call 
into the light all the things 

1048
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:35,880
that need to come into the light
in our own lives and hearts, in 

1049
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:39,080
our relationships with each 
other, in the ways we've been 

1050
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:41,600
with other people. 
We just continually, it's the 

1051
00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:44,920
scariest prayer that that I pray
regularly every day, 

1052
00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:48,280
particularly around family, but 
Chris and I pray we just 

1053
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:50,280
continually call everything into
the light. 

1054
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:53,960
It's the best way to live. 
And so we do that as a 

1055
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:56,760
community, as a church, we call 
everything into the light 

1056
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:04,080
because we know there's just so 
much goodness. 

1057
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:10,240
There's so much beauty, so much 
restoration, so much alignment 

1058
00:56:10,240 --> 00:56:19,160
in the light. 
So we receive that absolution 

1059
00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:22,000
that you declared on the cross, 
the Father, Son, and Spirit in 

1060
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:25,880
agreement, One God, three 
persons of the same substance. 

1061
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:30,040
We receive that absolution that 
says, Father, forgive all of us,

1062
00:56:30,040 --> 00:56:35,200
We don't know what we're doing. 
Amen. 

1063
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:42,480
So as I say, if there's anything
that you're wrestling with or 

1064
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:46,280
struggling with, please have 
conversations with people you're

1065
00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:51,920
doing life with or come to me or
Paul or Chris. 

1066
00:56:52,720 --> 00:56:56,480
We're all like there. 
There's one conspiracy. 

1067
00:56:56,560 --> 00:56:59,160
It's called the conspiracy of 
the Trinitarian love. 

1068
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:01,760
There is no conspiracy theory 
that there's a whole bunch of 

1069
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:04,880
people who think something and 
we want everyone to be on board.

1070
00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:08,320
We all are on different pages 
with this and we all are having 

1071
00:57:08,320 --> 00:57:11,640
an open conversation. 
OK, It's really important. 

1072
00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:17,120
Everyone knows this. 
Everyone is really brave to know

1073
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:22,400
that our agreement is not on a 
kind of an intellectual 

1074
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:24,160
affirmation. 
It's because we love each other.

1075
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:28,400
We're family. 
And so we can sit in different 

1076
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:32,280
spaces with, with some phrases, 
with some ways of thinking. 

1077
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:38,160
So please push back on anything,
have conversations, please look 

1078
00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:40,280
at the videos. 
We've got an introductory 1, 

1079
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:43,240
lecture 1 and lecture 2, and we 
want to look at lecture 2 this 

1080
00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:46,000
Wednesday. 
Please prioritise this, I would 

1081
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:50,880
almost say over everything else 
in your life, which is a really 

1082
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:53,640
big thing to say. 
But I think this, this is a 

1083
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:57,800
really big way to see the world.
It's a really different way. 

1084
00:57:57,880 --> 00:58:00,560
And so I think we need to 
wrestle with it authentically 

1085
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:03,720
and deeply and richly. 
And I'm not even saying it's 

1086
00:58:03,720 --> 00:58:07,760
live for me personally. 
I have to say the ocean song for

1087
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:13,480
me is this is being in this 
position where as a community we

1088
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:18,760
take a step of faith into areas 
that are uncertain. 

1089
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:22,120
That's that's where we step out 
of the boat. 

1090
00:58:23,080 --> 00:58:25,560
But personally, I don't want to 
live any other way and I don't 

1091
00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:27,120
want to follow Jesus any other 
way. 

1092
00:58:27,600 --> 00:58:30,600
And, and most people about my 
stage are really bored in their 

1093
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:34,160
faith. 
And as John Tyson said, if 

1094
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:37,080
God's, if you're bored with your
faith, God's probably bored with

1095
00:58:37,080 --> 00:58:41,320
your faith too. 
So let's take this step of faith

1096
00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:43,960
and go to these deep places and 
wrestle through them. 

1097
00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:46,920
Brilliant. 
See you on Wednesday. 

1098
00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:53,560
Sign up for the Curry and keep 
the conversation. 

1099
00:58:53,640 --> 00:58:55,680
And this vegetarian. 
Thanks, Christy.