1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:10,560 Good morning Vietnam. Morning. 2 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:16,760 Any music lovers? Anyone recognise the song I was 3 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:26,720 playing whilst we were talking? No, let's have a bit of fun, 4 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:39,360 shall we? Yeah, yeah, it's all right. 5 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:53,160 It's all right. Isn't this beautiful? 6 00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:58,360 It's really easy words. It's not even part of the 7 00:00:58,360 --> 00:00:59,200 message. But why not? 8 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:28,960 It's all right. You fade it down for me, 9 00:01:28,960 --> 00:01:32,040 Michael. I can't just cut it. 10 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:33,640 We have to fade that. It's too good. 11 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:40,080 It's too good. Daddy. 12 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:47,280 Really really stoked to do this and really grateful to be in 13 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:59,470 front of your people. There's so much I I want to say. 14 00:02:00,630 --> 00:02:04,150 We know when we were singing with with Michael Meredith and 15 00:02:05,990 --> 00:02:12,670 shouting the name Yahweh. And I was thinking about times 16 00:02:12,670 --> 00:02:20,600 when wanting to shout out whether because you're so 17 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:24,800 frustrated and things are up in here or you're so happy and just 18 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:29,720 thinking about that name, God's name and all his names. 19 00:02:30,920 --> 00:02:34,120 And I just thought right now with you guys, just before I 20 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:39,560 even start, the name that you are most familiar with for God, 21 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:42,880 how you see him, whatever that name is. 22 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:47,080 Can you just think of that name now, whether it's like Jesus, 23 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:52,840 Father, Daddy, Yahweh, El Shaddai, whatever that name is, 24 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:54,080 think of what that name is for you. 25 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:04,920 And then I'm going to ask you to do something like being in one 26 00:03:04,920 --> 00:03:08,800 of my old drama classes where the students know when they see 27 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:11,080 me in front of the class, Mr Mack might ask them to do 28 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:13,840 something that is a little bit outside of their comfort zone. 29 00:03:13,920 --> 00:03:16,960 I don't put them in the risk zone where they're going to get 30 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:18,760 hurt. I put them just a little bit in 31 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:24,440 the out of the comfort zone. If it's OK with you, would you 32 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:28,320 shout out that name that you call God? 33 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:31,640 I'll give us a countdown and I'll shout with you. 34 00:03:31,640 --> 00:03:33,680 And obviously, you know, I have a big mouth, so it'll probably 35 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:40,240 be what you hear the most. But shout it out like not with 36 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:47,440 the usual Western conservativism, but like no one 37 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:50,120 else is here and you're on top of a mountain and there's wind 38 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:53,200 blowing in your face and you need to fight that wind with 39 00:03:53,200 --> 00:04:02,280 your shout. I'm going to count to 3 maybe. 40 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:17,200 Yeah, 123 man, he loves you. What does this image say to you? 41 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:20,120 I know it's sometimes hard to see on the projector in here. 42 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:28,680 If you can see it, what does it say to you? 43 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:32,880 Yeah. If you can't see it, get to 44 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:34,960 somewhere where you can. It's OK, we're not going 45 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:50,490 anywhere. Can help you a bit like this for 46 00:04:50,490 --> 00:04:58,320 sure. Most def I don't even need to 47 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:00,880 talk today. I think you guys got it a hole 48 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:06,320 in one from the Bristol Light Festival this year. 49 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:10,440 That was in the Royal Fork Gardens just by my old school, 50 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:12,360 you know, where they got those metal things that are shining 51 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:14,320 like a little maze. And that was one of the 52 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:21,440 sculptors up there and amazing piece of art and it really spoke 53 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:23,000 to me and God really spoke to me through it. 54 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,960 Walking with questions. So I gave it a title. 55 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:31,920 You don't need to give anything a title really, do you? 56 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:34,920 But I love film, I love stories, I love theatre. 57 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:37,560 So I like to give things titles sometimes. 58 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:42,480 It helps me remember. So this is what I've kind of 59 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:46,360 called our chat today, Walking with questions. 60 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:53,120 It's job 42 three Chris was asking, you know, maybe we could 61 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:57,480 have a scripture at the start that kind of connects what 62 00:05:57,480 --> 00:05:59,760 you're talking about or something that we can tie into. 63 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:03,680 And I didn't actually have it. I had what I was talking about, 64 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:08,480 but I didn't have it. And then I sat and listened and 65 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:15,200 he does what he always does. This is Job talking back to God. 66 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:22,240 You asked who is this that obscures my plans without 67 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:24,560 knowledge. That was, that's what God said 68 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:29,480 to Job. And then Job says, surely I 69 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:36,240 spoke of things I did not understand, things too wonderful 70 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:56,400 for me to know. In this season of life, I know I 71 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:59,920 am. Are you wrestling with a 72 00:06:59,920 --> 00:07:06,600 particular question or some reoccurring questions? 73 00:07:12,890 --> 00:07:15,410 Can you have a little think what that might be if it's safe for 74 00:07:15,410 --> 00:07:37,760 you to do so? I'm in a long season, seems to 75 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:46,040 be going on for some time, and there is a refrain, A chorus, A 76 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:53,280 motif that is constantly coming back to me, and it's Louis. 77 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:59,720 You have to learn how to walk with questions. 78 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:10,720 I can't remember the first time I heard that someone said it to 79 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:19,800 me or I saw it somewhere, but in that wisdom, it has been planted 80 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:26,480 in here and it keeps on producing that sentence to me 81 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:32,200 over and over again at different times of the day, different days 82 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:38,000 of the week, different events. Louis, you need to learn to walk 83 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:46,120 with questions. And what I got from that was, 84 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:59,040 you don't know everything yet, and you may not, but keep 85 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:03,200 walking. Keep walking. 86 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:15,960 I was saying to Chris that I am enraptured with the wisdom 87 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:22,040 literature. That's Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, 88 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:27,760 Book of Job, and also Songs of Solomon, but especially the 89 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:33,720 former three. I am besotted, beguiled by them, 90 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:37,760 especially Job. I'm really grateful for the 91 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:43,480 Bible Project, John Collins, Tim Mackey, without what those that 92 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:46,680 team is doing, I know there's a lot of people who would miss out 93 00:09:46,680 --> 00:09:51,640 on some amazing teaching and they have really fed me. 94 00:09:52,320 --> 00:10:01,360 And recently these books, which I've read before have become 95 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:05,080 Technicolour man, you know that. What's that film? 96 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:08,280 Where what is it? It's like a cartoon. 97 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:12,120 And I think there's a guy singing who's is he an African 98 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:13,240 American singer? He's singing. 99 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:16,040 When all these little birds come up and all these cartoon 100 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:17,360 characters all come out, what is that? 101 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:21,520 Yes, say pretty dude. That's what it's like reading 102 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:25,640 these books now. It's like, I'm like, where has 103 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:28,400 this been? More likely? 104 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:34,200 Where have I been? But what I like about them is 105 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:38,680 the questions that they they deal with how we're supposed to 106 00:10:38,680 --> 00:10:42,640 live in this world. I like them because they're 107 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:45,840 practical. I like them because they're not. 108 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:51,400 They're not so difficult for me to try and grab grasp some 109 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:55,360 theoretical way that I'm struggling because you can get 110 00:10:55,360 --> 00:11:00,320 in Christendom. Teaching that is so amazing, 111 00:11:00,680 --> 00:11:02,920 sometimes find it hard to even touch it. 112 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:10,040 And that may be because of opinions I've got about my own 113 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:13,280 academic ability maybe or experience. 114 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:15,440 And that might be hindering me a little bit. 115 00:11:15,560 --> 00:11:22,600 But also sometimes the language used is so complicated, I can't 116 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:24,280 get it. I can't hit it. 117 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:27,960 And what I love about the Wisdom books is they're dealing with 118 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:37,720 here today, right now, some of the questions that they ask can 119 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:46,600 lead us to what we infer about God's character from the justice 120 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:48,920 or the injustice that we perceive in the world. 121 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:54,720 So from how do I put it? So from what we see as what we 122 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:56,880 consider that's justice or that's injustice. 123 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:03,760 Sometimes from that, that then begins to mould and shape how we 124 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:21,470 see the character of God, which then I think can have effects on 125 00:12:22,630 --> 00:12:27,590 the narrative we listen to about how we see God or who God is or 126 00:12:27,590 --> 00:12:30,880 what God is. And I put dot, dot, dot question 127 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:34,640 mark, the narrative that we listen to about God's character 128 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:38,320 is, but it's not for me to say what it is. 129 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:52,480 It's for all of us. The wisdom books are cool, man. 130 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:59,160 They step out of the linear arc of the Bible story just for a 131 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:02,080 moment temporarily. You know, normally you got like 132 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:06,440 Moses story, the lineage of Abraham, the blessings, the 133 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:09,520 covenant, the high priest, the prophets, the temple, the 134 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:13,360 messianic king. That's the over reaching arc of 135 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:17,560 the Bible. But then the wisdom books go one 136 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:22,720 SEC Also, let's talk about how to run your business. 137 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:28,160 Let's talk about you ain't chatting to your brother and 138 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:31,600 your family is feeling it right now and it's hurting you. 139 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:37,400 Let's chat about your employee thinks that you are bullying 140 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:41,080 them and upon reflection, your language is actually not that 141 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:47,360 healthy Maybe. Or let's talk about why my child 142 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:57,780 is no longer here. The hard questions. 143 00:14:00,620 --> 00:14:13,440 Hard questions. Different kind. 144 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:19,640 One of the cool features about the wisdom literature is that 145 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:22,880 it's a different kind of authority which they speak to 146 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:26,480 us. So back in the day, Old 147 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:31,800 Testament got Moses, he's up on the mountain getting them 10 148 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:35,080 commandments from God. And then he comes down the 149 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:37,240 mountain. Yeah, it's probably 150 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:39,120 disconcerting for the people seeing the big cloud over there 151 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:41,640 too. And he comes down and says thus 152 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:46,880 saith God, well, you've got the prophets, Elijah, Elijah, 153 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:49,760 Samuel, and hear from God. I'm like, listen, man, this is 154 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:51,120 what God said. Do this. 155 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:54,440 But then you get the wisdom books. 156 00:14:56,320 --> 00:15:00,400 They're not like that. It's kind of different. 157 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:11,400 They contain human words. First nine chapters, there's a 158 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:15,280 dad talking to his boy. Listen, son, this is the 159 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:16,360 instruction. Do this. 160 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:19,120 Rare, rare, rare, don't do this. You do this. 161 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:21,080 This is what happens. Cause and effect, etcetera, 162 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:28,280 etcetera. In the wisdom books, the wise 163 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:36,640 counsel of God fearing people and all the insight accumulated 164 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:41,960 throughout generations upon generations becomes God's word 165 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:50,800 to his people in these books. That's like the wisdom passed 166 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:53,640 down from grandparents to grandchildren to grandchildren. 167 00:15:55,360 --> 00:16:00,000 That kind of wisdom. I think about my nanny, Nanny 168 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:05,960 Mackenzie, who's no longer with us, and some of the wisdom that 169 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:09,200 she passed down to me, it's like that. 170 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:16,160 I remember being a boy and didn't want to walk anywhere I 171 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:18,920 love, was obsessed with cars and my nanny didn't drive. 172 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:22,720 And you know, I grew up in a small town up in the Midlands, E 173 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:26,720 Staffordshire, and when I went to stay with her, I'd want to 174 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:33,080 get the bus into town and she wanted me to try and stay 175 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:36,040 mobile, stay fit, not be obsessive or be lazy, I think. 176 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:39,800 And so she used to say you've got 2 choices. 177 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:44,080 I give you the bus fare and you can get the bus and we go into 178 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:46,640 town or you can save the bus fare. 179 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:50,200 And when we go into town there's some sweets in the shop you can 180 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:54,760 buy and you can use that. And I was like, that's a great 181 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:56,160 idea. Yeah, yeah, I'll take that 182 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:59,240 money, Nanny. And this is just this wisdom 183 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:02,440 from this amazing woman. There's so many stories I could 184 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:04,839 tell you about the things I learnt from that woman that I'm 185 00:17:04,839 --> 00:17:10,319 now the beneficiary of, about making the bed in the morning, 186 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:14,480 ironing my clothes. You know, my nanny used to iron 187 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:16,920 her clothes before she put them in a suitcase. 188 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:19,200 And then. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 189 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:21,880 And then we should come down to Bristol, come down to Dad's, get 190 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:24,480 to #6 Elm Grove, open a suitcase, and then she'd add 191 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:25,280 them again. Same way. 192 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:26,599 This is the kind of woman I'm talking about. 193 00:17:26,599 --> 00:17:28,880 She's just, she's different man, different cloth. 194 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:32,600 But it's that wisdom passed down from generations to generations. 195 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:37,480 Is that what we're seeing in the literature, wisdom literature, 196 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:40,800 which is different to other books in the Bible? 197 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:49,040 And I think that's profound. There's a whole set of books 198 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:55,520 that validate there's a divine wisdom in the council and the 199 00:17:55,520 --> 00:18:01,400 wisdom of the elders. This collection of books is like 200 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:06,240 a gift to God's people. It's God's word, but the content 201 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:08,640 of that divine word is human wisdom. 202 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:11,160 Very unique. It's really unique. 203 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:19,480 It's cool. Another thing that I love is the 204 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:24,360 creative tension that there is between these books. 205 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:31,920 There is a creative tension between the three, the four if 206 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:34,120 including songs, but the three that I'm talking about today. 207 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:43,360 So the main questions in these books are, you know, how should 208 00:18:43,360 --> 00:18:48,680 we live in the world? What's the good life if I try to 209 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:50,840 live wisely? What should we expect? 210 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:56,680 What will God do for me if I try really hard and do the right 211 00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:00,800 thing? And they offer a different 212 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:06,440 perspective. So Proverb says, let me 213 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:10,320 paraphrase that. Be wise, fear God. 214 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:13,960 Things will kind of work out for you if you're foolish, and if 215 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:17,000 you're stupid, do evil things, they'll go back for you. 216 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:23,680 You'll die young, you'll perish. For example, Proverbs 39, the 217 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:28,000 light of the righteous rejoices. It's like the righteous person 218 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,160 who's wise has a light and it shines. 219 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,000 Believe in happiness, but the proverb finishes. 220 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:34,880 But the lamp of the wicked snuffed out. 221 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:37,800 So if you're righteous and you're wise, you'll be 222 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:40,560 prosperous and happy. And if you're wicked and stupid, 223 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:46,840 you'll die young. Then Job, of course, is about as 224 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:51,120 righteous as God says it, remember, and as wise as a man 225 00:19:51,120 --> 00:19:55,120 as they come, and horrible things happen to him for reasons 226 00:19:55,120 --> 00:20:03,240 that he never discovers. Why later on in the book of Job, 227 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:08,560 he actually uses that same proverb in Job 2117. 228 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:13,240 Let me change the tone of voice that he might have had if he was 229 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:19,040 saying it. How often is the lamp that we 230 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:24,280 could put out? Does their calamity really ever 231 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:28,800 come? Wicked people have got it, man. 232 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:35,600 I've been doing the right thing and look at my life right now. 233 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:44,480 So he's questioning the message of Proverbs, and that's the part 234 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,760 of wrestling, of his wrestling in the book. 235 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:54,200 Not only is he wrestling with Proverbs, Proverbs ain't working 236 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:57,760 for him. Not working. 237 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:02,720 Computer says no, baby, it ain't working for him. 238 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:08,200 The book of Proverbs does not work for Job. 239 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:13,760 It's not working out for him. This kind of weird thing to say 240 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:21,240 in it, there's a divinely given wisdom book that tells you, do 241 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:26,600 this and it's going to be great. Yeah. 242 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:30,760 And then you've got another book that says, hey, this guy did 243 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:36,720 that, didn't work out for him. They're both found in the Bible. 244 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,440 And you've got my man Ecclesiastes. 245 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:49,120 He's sometimes seen it work for Joe people, sometimes not. 246 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:57,320 Ecclesiastes 7 The teacher says I've seen a righteous man who 247 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:01,560 dies despite his righteousness, and a wicked man who has a long 248 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:05,480 life despite his wickedness. And then he says this is absurd. 249 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:10,200 Man, got to be careful when you see the word meaningless. 250 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:12,480 I think the original word is heavil. 251 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:18,720 That heavil is like, remember when Chris had that incense 252 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:20,440 thing and the smoke was coming up? 253 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,760 You can see the smoke, but you can't hold it. 254 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,240 But it's real. It's like an enigma. 255 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,440 It's like a paradox. That's what my man is saying. 256 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:33,880 He's not saying that I have seen everything. 257 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:34,920 And you know what? There's no point. 258 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:39,920 He ain't saying that. He's saying, boy, this is, I see 259 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:42,240 it, but I don't see it. This is an enigma. 260 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,840 It's heaven, heaven. Look that up, man. 261 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:48,440 Make sure that I'm not chatting rubbish. 262 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:58,160 So for the teacher who I call the critic, it's not just that 263 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:03,640 the book of Proverbs doesn't work, but sometimes it does and 264 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:08,280 sometimes it doesn't. And if so, it's not a guaranteed 265 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:13,720 system, so what's the point? That actually really frustrates 266 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:18,800 him. It drives Job to pray, get 267 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,080 angry, wrestle with God. It drives the speaker and 268 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,600 Ecclesiastes to despair. What is going on? 269 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:27,600 How comes that this don't make no sense? 270 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:29,320 This is an enigma, it's a paradox. 271 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:39,760 It's absurd, the creative tension between those books in 272 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:48,080 the same Bible. All of these viewpoints in our 273 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:53,080 Bible, but I don't think they're contradicting. 274 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:57,480 I think that's an immature, unsophisticated way to look at 275 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,680 it. They're opposing tensions. 276 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:07,320 Sometimes Proverbs is true, I suppose, to our experience. 277 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,480 Not always. Sometimes Ecclesiastes, 278 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:16,960 sometimes Job, the wrestling match in different seasons of my 279 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,760 life can be spoken about by these different books at 280 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:26,640 different times. Anyone ever heard of dialogical 281 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:31,200 views of truth and reality? Yeah, I didn't. 282 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:38,840 It's bonkers. The Hebrew Bible, Old Testament. 283 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:44,960 You can see how it's clearly influenced kind of post Old 284 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:50,960 Testament Jewish theology. So like when you think about, if 285 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,760 you think about the Mishnah and the Talmud, you've got these 286 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:58,360 things called dialogical views of truth and reality where you 287 00:24:58,360 --> 00:25:02,160 might have a subject like the Sabbath, what to do on the 288 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:07,000 Sabbath and how they rocket is they get bare rabbis to say 289 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:08,960 their opinion and then that's it done. 290 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:14,080 That's it. They say their opinion, full 291 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,440 stop. And you're like, yeah, yeah. 292 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:21,440 But what, what do I do then? So how, what do I do on the 293 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:22,680 Sabbath? Then how how do I? 294 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:25,280 There's none of that. It's just use all these 295 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:31,360 different people's opinions. I think they're getting that 296 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:36,360 from this culture that we're seeing here in the Hebrew Bible. 297 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:41,760 Could you imagine coming here, hear Chris speak on Saturn? 298 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:45,320 Alice comes up and says something from a complete 299 00:25:45,360 --> 00:25:49,360 opposite point of view in the creative tension, and then Bill 300 00:25:49,360 --> 00:25:51,960 comes up and says something completely different. 301 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,400 We would be like, what's this division up in the church? 302 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,240 Get behind me, Satan. We need to trust and pray. 303 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:05,320 What's going on in Hope Chapel? Because it's kind of 304 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:10,000 disconcerting because in my opinion, me, just me, not just 305 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,960 me, but how I feel. I kind of lean towards the 306 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:17,040 proverbs way of looking at life. Do this. 307 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:21,040 This happens if I was the Frenchman from The Matrix, Cause 308 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,520 and effect. This is what happens if I do 309 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,480 this, bam, I keep doing this, man, I'm going to get enough 310 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:28,560 films. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 311 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:32,280 Do it like this. That will work because that's 312 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:36,680 easier in it. It's like AI love an instruction 313 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:37,920 manual. Can't go wrong with the 314 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:42,280 instruction manual. I can't remember what it was, 315 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:45,480 Hannah. There was 1 something you said 316 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:49,520 for me to do and I said give me really clear instructions. 317 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:51,400 I can't remember what it was. Before we go on the way on the 318 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:53,000 holiday, I think there was a list of things. 319 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,040 And I was like, Hannah, you need to, if I could pull my phone out 320 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:57,720 of wood, I'm like, I need bullet point. 321 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,720 Tell me exactly where to go, where to find the powder, what 322 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,120 drawer do I put it in? And I said, if you don't do it, 323 00:27:03,120 --> 00:27:05,200 I'm not doing it. And she did it obviously because 324 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:06,520 I like that. We like that. 325 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:20,920 There's something in the Jewish tradition that takes its cues 326 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,920 from the Hebrew Bible, that contains within itself a message 327 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:30,480 that is sometimes doubted. And then you come out of it the 328 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:35,360 other side, still believing the main message, but knowing that 329 00:27:35,360 --> 00:27:39,080 it's probably more complex than you first thought. 330 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:43,960 Which is why I used that picture from the start. 331 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,080 I think it's really interesting to wrestle with the fact that in 332 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:58,240 our scripture, we've got books that require you to hold them in 333 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:07,290 creative tension, that they're having a conversation with each 334 00:28:07,290 --> 00:28:12,410 other and that the books nuance each other. 335 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:26,760 Ecclesiastes forces us as the reader of the whole Bible to 336 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:32,200 recognise that life is complex and sometimes things that don't 337 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:37,560 fit into our grid doesn't mean that God's not real or faithful. 338 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:45,240 It just means life is more complex than I thought. 339 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:48,800 I need to take that into account. 340 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,200 That might be helpful for me in this season. 341 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:58,760 We know it, but we need to know it. 342 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:04,680 Christopher Wright, big boy, Old Testament scholar. 343 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:11,040 Love this. The most challenging difference 344 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,440 between the Wisdom writings and the rest of the Old Testament 345 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:20,720 arises when Wisdom authors express doubts about or question 346 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:25,120 the validity of some of the mainline affirmations of other 347 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:34,800 parts of the Bible. And yet this is precisely the 348 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:39,360 purpose of the material in the Canon of Scripture, to compel us 349 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:45,120 toward an honest faith that's willing to acknowledge the 350 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:51,760 presence of doubts we cannot dismiss and questions we can't 351 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:57,040 always fully answer given our human limitations. 352 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:01,400 Which is why Daddy brought that scripture from Job for me when I 353 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:09,910 didn't know what to use. Big up Christopher Wright. 354 00:30:14,710 --> 00:30:20,520 So walk in with questions as I'm coming into land. 355 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:34,800 I would love that somewhere in the near future you are able to 356 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:43,840 jump into the wisdom books. But together, the point is, is 357 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:48,560 that together they give a sophisticated account of human 358 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:53,280 experience. And if we read 1 in isolation, 359 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:59,280 we're getting a narrow view. We need to have the light 360 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,960 shining from the other angle that shows you that the the 361 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:06,160 sculptor has done it in such a way that actually there's more 362 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,280 going on here. You still, I'm not going to, I'm 363 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:12,200 still never going to understand how this sculptor did this. 364 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:18,320 By the way, All I know is it's not how I thought it was, and 365 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:20,760 it's a little bit more sophisticated than I first 366 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:24,800 thought. And some things I'm not going to 367 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:28,200 know, some things I am. It's easy to say about a piece 368 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,320 of art in it, but it's differently when it's my life. 369 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:32,120 Yeah, man, I hear that. I'm there. 370 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:35,160 I'm there all day long. I'm there. 371 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,800 One of the fun things that Tim Mackie and John Collins do is 372 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:46,680 they have a thought experiment about the Wisdom books and they 373 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,480 say what if they were three people in a bar? 374 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:57,640 Boston, That's me, Channel 4 with my mum watching Cheers 375 00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:00,960 before we watch Frasier, which is my favourite. 376 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:05,240 Frasier, Bang, Cheers, Bang, Big Up, Love them series. 377 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,000 So that's the bar, there's no norm. 378 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:12,480 But what if the wisdom books were people chatting in a bar 379 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:17,640 because I'm an actor, try and put things into ways that I 380 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:21,240 understand. And if we turned the scriptures 381 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,120 into a person, how might they be? 382 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:25,920 How might they function? Because then that means I can 383 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,720 talk to them and it means I can imagine them talking back to me, 384 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:32,160 which means I'm interacting with the with God in a way that, oh, 385 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:34,840 that's not what they taught me when I was younger. 386 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:40,680 So Proverbs AKA Lady Wisdom, if you don't like the term Lady 387 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:46,720 Wisdom AKA Hokhmar, you know that wisdom, that of God, she is 388 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:48,600 awesome. You know, they use the female 389 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:50,480 pronoun in the script. It's about wisdom. 390 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:58,040 She is like the person who, if they wrote a book, bestseller of 391 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:01,600 the century, the person you go to, how to run your business, 392 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:03,920 the person you go to, how to advise you about your 393 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,160 relationships by marriage, by your kids. 394 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:12,120 This woman knows it. She's the TOP man. 395 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:19,320 She's the TTP total package. And you've got Ecclesiastes, AKA 396 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,000 the critic. He's a little bit older. 397 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:31,240 He's he's a bit older than me, middle-aged. 398 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:36,240 He's brilliant. He can cut through anyone's 399 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,800 argument and just destroy the other side of things. 400 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:42,840 You know them people who can just hear what you're saying and 401 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,560 just can be like they see, it's like they like Neo in the 402 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,040 Matrix. Like that's how I feel when I 403 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,760 chat to Paul. When I'm chatting to Paul and if 404 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:53,400 I'm chatting rubbish, Paul is like, what are you chatting 405 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,600 about, man? He can just see the numbers in 406 00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:58,240 what I'm saying. And he's like, stop. 407 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:04,240 He just sharper than a Ken Home knife. 408 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:06,560 If you know what, Ken, if you remember Ken Home, you remember 409 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:09,960 Ken Home knives anyway, Yeah, he's cynical, though. 410 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,080 This is not Paul, but he's cynical, a little disenchanted 411 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:14,400 because he's seen a lot, done a lot. 412 00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:18,480 Something's worked out. Some not built projects, built 413 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:22,520 things. He's parted Blasto, Coachella, 414 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:27,679 Wireless. He's done the rave thing, parted 415 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,239 when he was younger, but now he's like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. 416 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,239 I don't know what I'm doing now. And I could talk to the kids. 417 00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,800 And is that weed? Yeah, I know. 418 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,239 What you can't tolerate is people with black and white, 419 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:47,280 simplistic thinking, people who are building their lives on 420 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:49,639 false meaning and unreliable hopes. 421 00:34:49,639 --> 00:34:54,080 And then you've got Job. Who? 422 00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:56,120 If you were in the bar with those three, you probably 423 00:34:56,120 --> 00:35:00,600 wouldn't even know it's Job. He's just cutting in the corner, 424 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:08,400 almost invisible old boy, grey but soft. 425 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,280 He's listening to these guys chop it up. 426 00:35:13,720 --> 00:35:19,120 And he's like, all right, yeah, yeah, these guys are talking 427 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:22,160 about this. He's lived it, been through it. 428 00:35:29,540 --> 00:35:33,260 Used to be kind of cynical, bitter, like Ecclesiastes, but 429 00:35:33,260 --> 00:35:36,900 he's worked through it. And there's a piece about him 430 00:35:37,780 --> 00:35:40,300 that you can trust God in spite of all that he's been through, 431 00:35:43,860 --> 00:35:45,340 but he has a different kind of wisdom. 432 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:53,480 And it's not answers ain't 1 + 1 = 2. 433 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:04,000 If you get the chance to sit down in a bar with these three 434 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:10,520 in the near future in your NIV with your King James, I really 435 00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:18,800 encourage you go to that bar. It stops it from being these 436 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:25,760 words that are this far away from me that I'm like, unless 437 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:28,520 I'm like that person, I don't really get it. 438 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:30,480 And I just sometimes get it on a Sunday. 439 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:37,680 Maybe 2 comes in here. You get to know it. 440 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:41,320 You get to know them, but sit with all three of them. 441 00:36:42,920 --> 00:37:01,040 Don't sit with just one of them. Maybe, maybe, maybe you just 442 00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:07,680 might see another perspective to that sculpture that we're 443 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:11,040 living. That's me done, Chris. 444 00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:23,720 That was very good. Thank you, Louis, so much. 445 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:27,560 We've got 10 minutes, 10 minutes and it'd be great to respond. 446 00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:30,320 And so just let's have let's have we've got this little 447 00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:35,120 window of time. And for me, one of the, I think, 448 00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:37,360 healthy and challenging things from what Louis is saying is 449 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:40,120 that I imagine that all of us have got questions that we walk 450 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:44,720 with and I'm just guessing. And, and I think part of the 451 00:37:44,720 --> 00:37:48,320 courage is to let them surface, isn't it? 452 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,760 And it's be aware of them and even to hold them before God. 453 00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:53,880 I think it's probably quite easy to think actually, life's too 454 00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:55,800 busy or I'm just going to push these things down. 455 00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:59,600 But part of the bravery is to let them surface and give them 456 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:03,080 time. So I'm just going to just going 457 00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:06,880 to pray that God helps us to be conscious of what our questions 458 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,720 are. And then as always, really three 459 00:38:09,720 --> 00:38:13,120 ways that you can respond. You might just like to process 460 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:15,720 on your own and just pray, reflect. 461 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:19,200 You might like to share with the person next to you or someone 462 00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:22,160 near to you. Or if you'd like to come to the 463 00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:25,240 front and myself or Louis or I can grab somebody else who can, 464 00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:27,760 who can pray with you as well, if that would be helpful. 465 00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:31,280 So I'll I'll start us off with a prayer and then we can respond 466 00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:32,360 in one of those three ways.