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Finally, this is so this is 
session 7. 

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Anyone who was asking questions 
like from week 1 and I said, you

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have to wait till you know, 
session 7 before we, before we 

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actually get there, well, we're 
here. 

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So Hooray. 
And it's a, it's a short chapter

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in the book because I think for 
me, I think this is one of the 

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easiest lectures to follow 
personally, especially if you've

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kind of gone through the the 1st
6. 

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But I think it's the it's, it's 
more accessible. 

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It's not got philosophical terms
like matter narrative or, you 

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know, post enlightenment 
thinking or any of that kind of 

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none of that's in there. 
It's quite straightforward. 

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We're talking about what, what 
is the cross and why did, why 

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did Jesus come? 
So I thought actually it didn't,

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it didn't need an awful lot of 
kind of additional, you know, 

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hand holding in terms of the in 
terms of the the manual. 

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So the question, well, the the 
learning outcomes and I'm going 

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to turn it over to you guys to 
discuss for a bit while I go and

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eat some sorbet. 
Understand the purpose of the 

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cross. 
I probably would reword that now

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actually understand the purpose 
of the cross, maybe begin to 

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understand. 
Do we understand? 

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Understanding is an overrated 
word, but it's a good learning 

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outcome word from Bloom's 
taxonomy for worldview education

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theorists out there. 
Sorry. 

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Second one up. 
Yeah, yes, yeah. 

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Level level 2 Blooms. 
Yeah. 

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Grasp how the gospel defines our
problem in relation to darkness.

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Do you like that one? 
And three, This one you will not

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read in Blooms. 
Dismantle. 

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Dismantle the false doctrine of 
penal substitution reatonement. 

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And that's deliberately strong. 
That's it's a strong statement 

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because I don't think there's 
any quarter to be given to the 

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the idea of penal 
substitutionary atonement, that 

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there may be many angles on the 
atonement and there are many 

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angles on the atonement, but 
that is not one of them. 

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And that's I think something 
that comes across really 

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strongly in this lecture and 
probably is a good starting 

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point for our discussion, which 
is why we've got here reflection

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and exercise. 
Read John one or well, don't do 

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that right now, but or and then 
the essay God in the hands of 

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angry sinners in the course 
materials, which you don't have 

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because we're doing this off 
piste, but that is available. 

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You can get that one from 
Baxter's website and download it

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if you want to read it. 
It's a riff off of Jonathan 

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Edwards, Sinners in the Hands of
an Angry God, which is hailed as

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the most famous sermon in 
American history and perhaps go 

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some way to explain why the 
American psyche is so 

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dysfunctional. 
And I'm serious and the and, and

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I mean on the UK side as well. 
Sorry, yeah, recorded. 

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No, I'll be on the record for 
saying that. 

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I've I've stood, I've stood up 
in America and said this. 

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I don't mind. 
They agree because, you know, I 

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think people know there's, 
there's a there's a deep 

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dysfunction there. 
And I think it comes from if 

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your if your headline, if your 
headline sort of figurehead of, 

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you know, religious ideology is 
someone like Jonathan Edwards 

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writing a book like that or a 
sermon like that. 

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It's not a book then. 
Yeah, no, no wonder you've got 

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problems. 
But it does go for us in the UK 

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as well. 
I think it's the whole Western 

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thing has got the same issue. 
And that particular sin is in 

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the hands of an angry God. 
I think is a great summary of 

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the problem, the diagnosis of 
the of the problem. 

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But if you want to read that 
one, you can find it on the on 

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Baxter's website. 
But consider the following 

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statement. 
Any teaching which requires the 

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breaking or the dissolution of 
the Trinity should be considered

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false. 
Any teaching that requires the 

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breaking or dissolution of the 
Trinity should be considered 

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false. 
So up until now, really, I've 

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been trying to lay the 
foundation and make the case 

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that the historic witness of the
church has centred around the 

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revelation of God in Christ, the
revelation of God as Trinity. 

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And so any doctrines that we 
want to articulate need to be 

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expressions of the revelation of
God. 

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And if there are expressions of 
the revelation of God yet they 

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involve breaking or dissolution 
or fracturing or anything like 

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that within the Trinity, then 
they ought to be immediately 

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rejected as false. 
So this is a good acid test for 

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what is Christian and what is 
not Christian. 

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To the point about what is 
Christian, it's easier to say 

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what's not Christian than what 
is Christian. 

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I think any anything that is 
breaking the Trinity apart is 

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false. 
So consider that. 

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And with regard to the question 
of what is the cross for, how 

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has it that often been violated,
given everything we've been 

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looking at, you know, over the 
last six months, all the 

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different conversations, issues 
around the Scripture theology, 

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how have you heard angles or 
articulations about the cross 

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that actually do not fit in with
that revelation where there 

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where there's a cutting across? 
And my example that I will give 

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you is it takes me back to being
an undergraduate at university. 

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In the one time I went to the 
University Christian Union to 

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hear there was an, you know, a 
gospel, the mission, you know, 

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UCCF mission. 
And the preacher articulated a 

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message about Jesus dying on the
cross. 

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And he considered it to be a 
complete gospel message. 

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But there was not even a mention
of the resurrection. 

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He considered it. 
He considered the bare minimum, 

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you know, I've got this time to 
articulate something. 

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What can it be? 
And he painted a picture of 

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Jesus dying for our sins on the 
cross, but there was not even a 

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mention. 
My Bible says Paul says if 

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Christ is not risen from the 
dead, your faith is in vain. 

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So I don't know how you can 
preach a gospel that doesn't 

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involve the resurrection. 
But he he did and nobody seemed 

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to notice that this was a 
problem. 

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And that was the last time I 
went to a UCCF meeting. 

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Well, until years later when I 
got blacklisted, but that's 

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another story. 
So discuss anyway with reference

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to the the lecture. 
Maybe you want to go off piece 

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to yourself, things that spoke 
to you out of the lecture, maybe

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things that were making sense 
and not making sense where, you 

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know, take 15 minutes and then 
let's come back and just hear 

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what everyone has to say. 
We'll see where we end up. 

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Is that cool? 
Everyone's chatting away. 

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I don't. 
I kind of don't want to stop it,

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but I also want to bring 
everyone together to distil out 

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what's happening in the room. 
We had a great, I was really 

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enjoying on the table with the 
guys in the corner. 

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Anyone. 
I mean just throw it down like 

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what's everyone been discussing?
What are the points that have 

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been coming out? 
What are the issues? 

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What's everyone been wrestling 
with? 

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Anyone want to say anything? 
That's not me. 

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I can always preach, but I don't
think that wasn't. 

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Yeah, join it. 
Go on. 

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I think one of the things that 
we are wrestling with a little 

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bit was that the whole thing in 
the Old Testament, a lot about 

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the sacrificing things was for 
atonement. 

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And then if that isn't what 
Jesus was doing, then does that 

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doesn't quite add up together? 
Does that make sense? 

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So the the question I'll ask is 
what is atonement? 

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Yeah, you don't need to answer 
the. 

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No, I wish I didn't have the 
microphone. 

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Yeah. 
That's fine, I'll tell you. 

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Did you have your hand there? 
No. 

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I can say something. 
Well, it's what do you want to 

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say something you don't have the
same. 

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So my understanding is it means 
at one with. 

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So is that the I mean, that's 
yeah, yeah, yeah, thanks. 

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I guess we so we're part of part
of the issues. 

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I think what why why do we wait 
till session 7 for this? 

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Because the the questions that 
here like would be the same 

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questions people ask very early 
on, right. 

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And they get frustrated with me 
when I say, Please wait a few 

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weeks because we're doing all of
this groundwork to try and get 

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underneath the surface of things
that we, we think we're dealing 

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with the foundational questions 
when actually we're not. 

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We don't realise that there's a 
much several layers deeper than 

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that. 
There are other foundations that

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we've not even been aware of. 
So we use a word like atonement.

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Well, what does atonement mean? 
Or we use what we're talking 

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about the word saved. 
What does saved mean? 

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So what we throw around all the 
time, but what does it actually 

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mean? 
What are you being saved from? 

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Because if we've not defined 
that, then there's a huge 

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assumption about what the whole 
landscape is, what's going on 

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here and what we're what we can 
be when we just jump into the 

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Bible. 
We're coming into the Bible with

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all of our 2000 years of 
Christendom and whatever 

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experience we've had baggage 
that we've inherited and we just

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read that, not necessarily even 
conscious that what we're 

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reading is through multiple 
different lenses that are 

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00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:03,120
filtering what we're seeing and 
colouring it in a certain 

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direction. 
So the question of, well, 

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00:10:05,680 --> 00:10:10,080
obviously atonement is this or 
sin is this, but what is it 

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though? 
I think it's interesting. 

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I still to this day when I've 
asked the question, can anybody 

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give me the the verse that 
defines sin in the New 

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Testament? 
I've never had anyone able to 

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give it to me. 
It's just conspicuous. 

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Anyone maybe break the trend and
I'm thinking from Paul's 

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writings, he gives a very 
specific clear definition of the

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word sin. 
Anyone. 

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00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:41,400
No, no, I mean, that's 
etymologically we could talk 

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about he says all have sinned 
and fallen short. 

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But there's, there's one part 
where he defines sin and we, and

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I think we can look at it the 
the hamartia falling short, what

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that means again, studying the 
word. 

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00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:57,720
But there's, there's a point in 
the New Testament and I think 

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it's the no, no, no, not at all.
No, no, no, death, death is the 

184
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the consequence of sin. 
But he says everything. 

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00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:12,680
No, no, he's definitely, I'm 
thinking, I'm thinking of a 

186
00:11:12,680 --> 00:11:15,320
Bible verse in it. 
Everything that is not of faith,

187
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everything that is not of faith 
is sin, which is a very, very 

188
00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:21,480
strange statement. 
It's weird. 

189
00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:24,200
What the heck does that mean? 
Everything that is not faith, 

190
00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:27,480
just like we repeat, repeat so 
much, but what does it actually 

191
00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:29,560
mean when it's saying everything
that is not of faith? 

192
00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:34,160
Yeah. 
Everything that is not of faith 

193
00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:37,680
is sin, he says, which is a 
definition, a working 

194
00:11:37,680 --> 00:11:41,360
definition, Sarah. 
Yes. 

195
00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:46,360
I think it is interesting. 
This is a it's a very relational

196
00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:48,200
term, right? 
Everything that's not of faith 

197
00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:50,440
is very, very relational. 
Faith is a relational word. 

198
00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:56,360
It's trust. 
So, you know, let's just put 

199
00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:58,040
that in the pipe and smoke it 
for a little bit. 

200
00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:02,160
So we're used to thinking of 
saying in very, you know, well, 

201
00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:05,040
we're used to thinking of it in 
legalistic terms is the truth. 

202
00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:07,520
So we're thinking, well, this is
the this is the rule. 

203
00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:15,200
So OK, I stole an apple from the
the market. 

204
00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:19,320
Nobody saw that. 
In fact, the guy who was selling

205
00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:22,840
the apple, he was had too many 
apples anyway, and, you know, 

206
00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,080
always ends up with some that he
wastes at the end. 

207
00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:27,440
I stole it. 
I was hungry. 

208
00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:28,240
I ate it. 
I'm fine. 

209
00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:30,320
I'm happy. 
What's the problem? 

210
00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:34,840
There's It was a victimless 
crime, right? 

211
00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:42,120
And what do I need saving from? 
Well, yeah, so. 

212
00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:43,360
Right. 
So we get it. 

213
00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:49,560
We get into it now. 
So the, the issue then is we're 

214
00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,600
used to a scheme that is like, 
well, yeah, I get that that's 

215
00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:55,640
wrong. 
The problem is because it's 

216
00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:59,000
wrong and I violated this 
command, I'm going to get in 

217
00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:02,160
trouble for it. 
In which case the thing I need 

218
00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:04,120
to be saved from is the trouble,
right? 

219
00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:07,200
I need to be saved from the fact
that I'm going to get punished 

220
00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:09,520
by the judge. 
Actually, nobody else has got. 

221
00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:12,480
There's not not actually a 
problem otherwise, because if 

222
00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:14,600
the judge didn't have a problem,
nobody will have a problem. 

223
00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:16,280
The guy who had the apple didn't
have a problem. 

224
00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:18,480
I didn't have a problem, nobody 
had a problem. 

225
00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:22,000
But oh, it's the wrong thing and
the judge is going to get me. 

226
00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:27,800
Now I feel bad about it. 
And so in that sense, what do we

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need to be saved from? 
We need to be saved from the 

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punishment of the judge, hence 
the penal bit in penal 

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substitution. 
The real problem is the 

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punishment. 
Now if the judge didn't have a 

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problem with us, then we'll be 
like, oh, well, there's no issue

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then, is there? 
So there's a big issue, but the 

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question comes down to, but what
is it we're being saved from? 

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And then we could get into what 
Sarah's talking about. 

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Well, OK, so you, you took the 
apple. 

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We can understand and 
rationalise why somebody might 

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do that. 
And you think, well, if 

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somebody's hungry and they need 
an apple and it's the only way 

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you can do it, nobody's blaming 
them, right? 

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You're not, nobody's thinking 
that that's a bad person for 

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doing that. 
But what's coming out of that 

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00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:06,840
person? 
There's a there's a belief right

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00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:09,760
underneath that. 
The belief is I will not have 

244
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enough. 
I'm on my own. 

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I have to take matters into my 
own hands. 

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I have to control, I have to 
manipulate, I have to do 

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whatever in order to cover my 
own bases, take care of my 

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needs, whatever it is. 
And now what we have is the 

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construction of a false self 
that is built on a lie. 

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The lie that it depends on me. 
This is the same lie as the lie 

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of separation. 
God is not with me. 

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If God was with me, I wouldn't 
need to steal the apple. 

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And I know there's complexities 
here, right when we're talking 

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about real life, but we take it 
back to Jesus did. 

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He pushed it right back to the 
fundamentals. 

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He said anyone who hates his 
brother is guilty of murder. 

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Foolishly explained in many 
evangelical contexts as well, 

258
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hatred is as bad as murder. 
No it's not. 

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00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:06,520
Freaking idiot. 
Like taking a gun and blowing up

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civilians in the in the centre 
of town is not the same as 

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hating somebody. 
He's a materially light years 

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00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:15,440
apart from one another. 
That Jesus is not an idiot. 

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00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,600
He's not saying that God looks 
at you being angry and flipping 

264
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someone off because they cut you
up on the road and you like 

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00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:23,520
taking a machine gun and 
shooting up a school and saying,

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well, these are basically all 
sinners alike. 

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00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:27,560
No, it's not all sin is not 
alike. 

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00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:30,520
That's ridiculous. 
Like whoever said that's an 

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00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:32,280
idiot. 
Jesus never said it. 

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00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:35,080
In fact, he even talked about 
when Judas betrays me, he says 

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the one who betrays me as guilty
of a greater sin. 

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00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:38,640
So even Jesus says not all sin 
is alike. 

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00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:41,160
But but why anybody would even 
think that? 

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It's kind of moronic. 
That's not what he's saying. 

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00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:47,240
He's trying to push you down 
into understand you. 

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00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:50,680
You're judging by external 
outcomes. 

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I'm trying to point you to 
what's the issue within the 

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00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:57,560
heart that is The Fountainhead 
of the the outcomes. 

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00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:01,120
And the issue that lies at the 
heart is the lie. 

280
00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:04,880
I'm on my own, right? 
So there's the shame piece. 

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00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:07,080
Why am I on my own? 
Well, because I'm not worthy. 

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00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:10,960
There's the fear piece. 
If I don't take control, I'm 

283
00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:14,240
going to get bad outcomes. 
And then if I do the wrong 

284
00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:17,160
thing, I'm afraid that I'm going
to get punished for it, which is

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00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:19,720
fear has to do with punishment 
right One John. 

286
00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:25,240
So we have all of the language 
around sin and around atonement 

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00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:30,880
all funnels us down to questions
of the nature of our being and 

288
00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:34,560
our relationship in God right. 
It's it's fundamentally 

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00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:38,160
relational all the way through. 
Even when Jesus says do unto 

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00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:43,160
others as you would have them do
unto you or love your neighbour 

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00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:45,200
as you love yourself. 
You think about that. 

292
00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:49,080
How can you actually obey that 
command Will in all he he's 

293
00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:52,040
moving the centre of gravity 
from out here is an external 

294
00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:54,440
code that tells you do this and 
don't do that. 

295
00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:59,400
He moves that right into the the
locus of the conversation is the

296
00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,200
human heart where he says do 
unto others as you would have 

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00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:05,240
them do unto you, which means 
you have to you have to be able 

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00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:08,160
to know how you'd want them to 
treat you. 

299
00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:10,720
And then you'd need to be able 
to extend outwards and empathise

300
00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,520
with them in order to see them 
as yourself. 

301
00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:16,200
How can you do that? 
Well, we love because he first 

302
00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:21,359
loved us, that there's a 
rehabilitating effect of knowing

303
00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:24,680
and experiencing the love of God
that transforms us from the 

304
00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:29,240
inside out in a way that 
external regulations have no 

305
00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:32,000
power or ability to do anything.
So back to the question of 

306
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:34,120
atonement. 
Hebrews says it was impossible 

307
00:17:34,120 --> 00:17:37,280
for the blood of bulls and goats
offered year after year to 

308
00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:39,760
cleanse the conscience of the 
worshipper. 

309
00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:44,720
Interesting is it's not saying 
it's it was impossible for the 

310
00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:48,120
blood to make atonement with God
since it was impossible for it 

311
00:17:48,120 --> 00:17:50,520
to cleanse the conscience of the
worshipper, showing that the 

312
00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:52,120
problem is not on God's side, 
right? 

313
00:17:52,120 --> 00:17:56,840
The problem is on internally we,
we're the sacrifices are for us,

314
00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:58,560
right? 
Sacrifice is not for God. 

315
00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:01,560
In fact, God even says sacrifice
and burnt offering I have not 

316
00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:03,720
desired. 
That's a strange thing for you 

317
00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:06,280
to say God, didn't you author 
this whole sacrificial system? 

318
00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:09,840
Yet you say now I don't, I don't
want this. 

319
00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:13,200
And then you said, but a, but a 
body you have prepared for me is

320
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:16,480
in prophesying the incarnation 
here, here comes Christ into the

321
00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,200
equation. 
So we're we're wrestling some of

322
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:20,680
these things. 
We're wrestling with, we're 

323
00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:23,400
wrestling with them because the 
Bible is a story of wrestling 

324
00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:25,040
with these things. 
I mean, the New Testament is 

325
00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:28,360
written by the apostles 
wrestling with how on earth do 

326
00:18:28,360 --> 00:18:31,840
we process this stuff with the 
scriptural tradition that we've 

327
00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:34,120
inherited? 
How do we figure that out? 

328
00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:36,120
Now? 
How do we, how do we go back and

329
00:18:36,120 --> 00:18:40,840
read the, the, the first part of
the book now that we've seen the

330
00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:44,120
surprise ending that changes the
story as we go through. 

331
00:18:44,360 --> 00:18:47,800
And that's what John's doing in 
John one in the beginning. 

332
00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:50,080
So Genesis one in the beginning,
God created the heavens and the 

333
00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:52,160
earth. 
OK, we see an action. 

334
00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:56,880
God created John One in the 
beginning was the word and the 

335
00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:00,440
word was face to face with God. 
That's different. 

336
00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,280
That's a different perspective. 
If we think about the curtain 

337
00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:07,480
we've got, Genesis 1 is telling 
us what's happening on one side 

338
00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:10,760
of the curtain, but John 1 is 
telling us what's happening on 

339
00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:13,360
the other side of the curtain. 
What's happening within the mind

340
00:19:13,360 --> 00:19:17,600
of God, What's happening within 
this invisible place that we 

341
00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:21,840
cannot penetrate, We can't 
deduce, we can't infer, And as 

342
00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:24,920
Jesus says in in John's Gospel, 
no one knows the Father except 

343
00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:28,240
the Son. 
This is inaccessible to us by 

344
00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:33,000
any natural mechanism or means. 
To reach our way back into God 

345
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:35,920
is completely impossible. 
We cannot do that. 

346
00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:38,600
The natural mind cannot grasp 
the things of the Spirit. 

347
00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:44,120
But he says, and those to whom 
the Son wills to reveal him. 

348
00:19:45,120 --> 00:19:51,000
And later on, yeah. 
I think that that question about

349
00:19:52,360 --> 00:19:56,080
the sacrificial system. 
So I haven't read the book but I

350
00:19:56,080 --> 00:20:00,680
heard this guy on a podcast last
year someone wrote Lamb of the 

351
00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:03,600
free recovering the varied 
sacrificial understandings of 

352
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,680
Jesus death. 
It's 2024 by Andrew Remington 

353
00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:12,360
Relaria. 
He basically says that this I I 

354
00:20:12,360 --> 00:20:16,480
think the argument is this idea 
that the Old Testament 

355
00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:20,080
sacrificial system is set up 
something, then expecting a New 

356
00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:25,240
Testament sacrifice isn't 
actually really what's going on 

357
00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:30,000
in the text. 
This was then famously endorsed 

358
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:33,480
by John Mark Comer, who said 
final biblical as a final 

359
00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:36,920
biblical and exegetal refutation
of penal substitution 

360
00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:40,520
reatonement. 
So what I would do if you want, 

361
00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:43,520
if you're really interested in 
how what the sacrificial system 

362
00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:47,520
is doing or not doing to set us 
up for the New Testament, either

363
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:53,920
try and find a podcast by him. 
So his name is Andrew Remington 

364
00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:55,720
Rolera. 
He's like a conservative 

365
00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:59,880
theologian or fight or read the 
book Lamb of the free recovering

366
00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:02,520
the varied sacrificial 
understandings of Jesus death. 

367
00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:06,120
And he essentially kind of he's 
trying to say what what the 

368
00:21:06,120 --> 00:21:08,840
sacrificial system is doing and 
what it's not doing and what 

369
00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:12,960
we've can think it's doing. 
If that is a very niche. 

370
00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:15,480
That was just a specific 
question I think you guys had. 

371
00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:20,240
I just wanted to answer. 
Here's another question, maybe 

372
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:22,160
slightly easier than my other 
one. 

373
00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:25,000
Anyone. 
I'm thinking of a specific 

374
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,920
verse. 
What does the Bible say the law 

375
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:34,600
is for? 
Sorry more than that close, but 

376
00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:42,480
even more to increase sin, Paul 
said the law was added so that 

377
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:45,640
sin would increase. 
I mean just plug that back into 

378
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:49,760
the equation for a moment. 
What, like the, the purpose of 

379
00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:52,320
the law was to increase sin. 
And yes, Peter's right. 

380
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:54,520
He also says through the law, I 
become conscious of sin. 

381
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:56,440
So there's a revelatory part of 
that as well. 

382
00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,680
But the the intention when he 
when he is the intention 

383
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:03,400
statement, the law was added so 
that sin would increase. 

384
00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:15,400
So I would, yeah, Yeah. 
I mean, I, I see it. 

385
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,800
I see it as a it's an expression
of in the, the genesis count, 

386
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:19,760
right? 
The tree of the knowledge of 

387
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:21,080
good and evil. 
What is the knowledge of good 

388
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:23,840
and evil tree? 
It it makes a promise to you. 

389
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:27,680
The promise is here's the tree. 
It will teach you good and it 

390
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:29,240
will teach you evil. 
Well, what are you supposed to 

391
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:31,160
do with it then? 
Well, now that you've learned 

392
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,800
the one and the other, choose 
the good, reject the bad. 

393
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:36,120
How do I do that? 
Exercise your willpower to do 

394
00:22:36,120 --> 00:22:38,400
it. 
Now you are informed, you're 

395
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,000
accountable. 
Choose the good, reject the 

396
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:41,680
badge. 
Deuteronomy 2829. 

397
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:43,480
Here are two mountains, 
blessings and curses. 

398
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:48,520
Choose you know, A or B. 
Which one ABC Which one will it 

399
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:52,120
be right? 
Take your pick, but it's on you,

400
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:53,880
right? 
Choose the good, you'll get 

401
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:55,120
blessed. 
Choose the badge, you'll get 

402
00:22:55,120 --> 00:22:56,400
punished. 
Carrot and stick. 

403
00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:59,240
That's the expression of the 
law. 

404
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:04,520
So then you have throughout the 
story of the, the Jewish 

405
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:09,440
scriptures, you have a, a 
progressively narrowing window 

406
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,920
where, OK, we've got Abraham out
of all the families of the 

407
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:15,880
earth. 
And then we've got Jacob instead

408
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,600
of Esau. 
And then we, we start narrowing 

409
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:22,240
down to the, the 12 tribes. 
And then of the 12 tribes, it's 

410
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:25,240
Judah out of the 12. 
And then it's one family out of 

411
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,240
Judah, David's line. 
And then David himself is the 

412
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,280
one who says there's no one 
righteous, not even 1. 

413
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,960
So David's, David's own 
expression of this is what we're

414
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,840
we're progressively narrowing. 
If there's an in and an out, 

415
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:39,960
we're narrowing to the point 
where, well, actually 

416
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:44,600
everybody's out. 
Paul goes on to say God has 

417
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,040
bound all men over to 
disobedience in order to have 

418
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:50,920
mercy on them all. 
So the law has added that sin 

419
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,600
would increase actually with 
what's the point that he's 

420
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:59,160
expressing within that is he's 
painting everyone into the same 

421
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:03,280
corner of disobedience in order 
that mercy is functional. 

422
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:09,440
This is the cross, if we can 
recognise that. 

423
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,120
So Jesus, sheep and the goats. 
Favourite favourite parable that

424
00:24:14,120 --> 00:24:16,080
people like to throw at me 
whenever I kind of start this 

425
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:17,440
one. 
What's going on in the sheep and

426
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:19,680
the goats? 
They say, well, when did we when

427
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,200
did we see you and we didn't 
give you a cup of water. 

428
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:24,600
They said, well, as much as you 
did to the least of these, you 

429
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:25,960
did to me. 
Why? 

430
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:31,200
Because Christ has so fully 
identified himself with everyone

431
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,800
and everything. 
As you treat that person, so you

432
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:36,080
treat Christ. 
If we can recognise the 

433
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,040
implication of the parable, we 
recognise that every act of 

434
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:43,640
mistreatment is complicit in the
crucifixion of Christ on the 

435
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:47,440
cross. 
So we say all of our sin is 

436
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:48,920
brought to the Ground Zero of 
the cross. 

437
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,720
Yeah, it absolutely is. 
Because every act of human 

438
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:55,040
suffering, every act of human 
evil is connected to what 

439
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:58,320
happened at the cross. 
And it's, it's suffering and 

440
00:24:58,360 --> 00:25:02,640
evil, right? 
So Christ Co suffers with 

441
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,440
everyone who has ever suffered, 
with everything they have ever 

442
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:07,480
suffered in that moment of the 
cross. 

443
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:15,240
He is, he is demonstrating his 
irreversible connection with 

444
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:16,920
whatever it is that you have 
suffered. 

445
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:21,200
There on the cross is Christ in 
the gas Chamber of Auschwitz. 

446
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:25,560
There on the cross is Christ in 
the cobalt mines of Congo, 

447
00:25:26,120 --> 00:25:29,120
right? 
He, he is there fully there, not

448
00:25:29,120 --> 00:25:31,080
there in an abstract way, not 
not there. 

449
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,160
And I'm, I'm aloof and I can 
kind of empathise from a 

450
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,240
distance. 
This is him in his physical body

451
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:41,960
accepting the the suffering that
is Co suffering with everyone 

452
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,680
who has ever suffered anything 
big, small or otherwise. 

453
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,720
He bore his sins in our body on 
the tree. 

454
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,840
It's that connectivity, past, 
past, present, future to 

455
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:59,720
everything and everyone. 
Also, he's there similarly and 

456
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:03,680
equally assigned a grave with 
the wicked in his death, right? 

457
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:08,360
So he is also simultaneously 
inextricably linked to everyone 

458
00:26:08,360 --> 00:26:10,240
who is committing and 
perpetrating the acts of 

459
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:14,080
suffering because they're 
actually the same people, right?

460
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:18,920
The cycle, the cycle of abuse 
that passes down from one 

461
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:22,440
generation to another. 
Well, OK, the, the, the, you 

462
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,760
know, the, the, the, the abused 
5 year old becomes the abusing 

463
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:31,720
15 year old, right? 
So he's united himself with All 

464
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:36,840
in all of, in the Ground Zero of
all of these acts of suffering 

465
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,480
and inflicting of suffering and 
on, on others. 

466
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:44,320
So at that point we see all 
brought to the Ground Zero of 

467
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:48,080
the cross, because here is the 
Son of God who has united 

468
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:52,840
himself with all, and he takes 
that moment to address the issue

469
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:55,000
of our shame. 
Father forgive them, for they 

470
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:59,120
don't know what they do. 
Which if we understand from a 

471
00:26:59,120 --> 00:27:02,120
Trinitarian perspective, if 
Jesus is saying Father forgive 

472
00:27:02,120 --> 00:27:08,120
them, what is the Father saying?
The same thing, right? 

473
00:27:08,360 --> 00:27:10,360
The Son can only do what he sees
the Father doing. 

474
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:13,920
When Jesus praise Father forgive
them, he is not taking a break 

475
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:17,560
from being the Son of God. 
This is why union is essential. 

476
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:21,760
If we if we see separation here,
then what we see is the Son 

477
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,280
making a petition to the Father.
Well, does the Father hear the 

478
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:26,880
petition or not? 
But we don't know because we 

479
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,560
don't know the Father. 
We still the Father is still 

480
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:32,400
inscrutable to us. 
Yet before Jesus goes to the 

481
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,360
cross, he says to Philip, if 
you've seen me, you have seen 

482
00:27:34,360 --> 00:27:36,440
the father. 
Why does he say that just before

483
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,440
he goes right, you're going to 
see something that you cannot 

484
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,520
understand. 
This is coming your way in a 

485
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,320
couple of verses time, Philip 
and all the other disciples, 

486
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:49,240
you're going to see the Son of 
man lifted up, lifted up his 

487
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,160
language for coronation, right? 
You're going to see him lifted 

488
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,600
up in his coronation, but it's 
not going to be what you expect.

489
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,240
And in that day you will know 
that I am in you, you are in me 

490
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,120
and I am in the father. 
In that day you will know I am 

491
00:28:01,120 --> 00:28:01,840
not. 
I will be. 

492
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:05,840
So he tells them. 
You pay attention when you see 

493
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:07,240
this. 
This is this is what you're 

494
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:11,200
going to be bearing witness to 
as Philips asking the question. 

495
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:12,720
Show us the father and it will 
be enough. 

496
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:17,960
So the penal substitution thing 
puts the Father on one side, us 

497
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,880
on the other and the son in the 
middle, kind of like playing 

498
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,680
both sides. 
So when we when we hear father 

499
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:26,080
forgive them for they don't know
what they do. 

500
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:27,960
We don't even know if that 
prayer has been answered. 

501
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:29,640
We think it's a petition. 
It's not. 

502
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,680
It is a declaration. 
This is the pronounce, the 

503
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:37,120
pronouncement of absolution. 
It is the benediction on the 

504
00:28:37,120 --> 00:28:40,400
human race. 
This is saying what exactly what

505
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,120
the angels declare in the 
incarnation, peace on earth and 

506
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,480
goodwill to all men. 
That's the angels declaration, a

507
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:50,800
moment of rejoicing when the Son
of God is born in the in the 

508
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:56,440
stable, right, Because that's 
what the incarnation means, that

509
00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:01,360
the incarnation is the final 
word to answer the question of 

510
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:06,640
is man separated from God? 
Well, I, well, I thought no one 

511
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:08,800
may see my face and live. 
What about that? 

512
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:11,080
Why is Philip asking the 
question? 

513
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:12,240
Well, because they've got the 
tradition. 

514
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,680
God says to Moses, no one may 
see my face and live. 

515
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:17,800
Well, Moses does see the face of
God there, doesn't he? 

516
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,160
On the mount of Transfiguration.
He's transfigured and stands 

517
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:25,640
there with Jesus face to face. 
So Jesus saying to Philip, if 

518
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:27,480
you've seen me, you have seen 
the Father. 

519
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,160
But I thought no one may see my 
face and live. 

520
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:36,000
Apparently not, because now I'm 
seeing your face and I'm living.

521
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:41,520
So when the Son of Man is lifted
up, I'll he says I will draw all

522
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:43,800
to myself. 
So in that, that moment of 

523
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:47,920
glorification in John the cross 
is the moment of glorification, 

524
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,960
the moment of coronation. 
He doesn't have, John doesn't 

525
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,160
have a future coronation of 
Jesus in the Gospel. 

526
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:56,400
He has. 
This is the moment even to the 

527
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,200
point where when Jesus goes to 
the cross, he says now is the 

528
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,520
judgement of the world. 
Now the Prince of this earth 

529
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,160
stands condemned and I, when I'm
lifted up, will draw all to 

530
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,760
myself. 
So he doesn't, John does not 

531
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:10,600
have a future judgement in the 
Gospel if it's not there. 

532
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:13,480
It all happens. 
It's realised in that, that 

533
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:15,160
moment in the cross. 
And that's deliberate. 

534
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:18,600
You know, John doesn't have 
Jesus going away and coming back

535
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:20,920
like you get at the end of Luke,
he goes up and says he's going 

536
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:22,920
to come back again, not there in
John's gospel. 

537
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:24,680
Why? 
Because he's like, I'm zoning 

538
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:26,520
in. 
You need to see what is taking 

539
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:30,600
place here on the cross. 
This is the moment of Ground 

540
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:32,200
Zero. 
Everything is being brought back

541
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,800
to here. 
Not only that this in in it all 

542
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:39,520
being brought to that moment, we
also see the origin of all 

543
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,320
creation is there too, because 
he's the lamb slain from the 

544
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:44,920
foundation of the world, the 
foundation of the world, meaning

545
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:50,200
before there's any Adam, before 
there's any fall that the the 

546
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:56,240
revelation there is saying in 
the life that is shared in the 

547
00:30:56,240 --> 00:31:00,320
Father, Son and Holy Spirit out 
of which they create the world. 

548
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:02,480
What is it that they create the 
world out of? 

549
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,400
Well, John, John tells us that 
God is love. 

550
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:07,920
The essential nature of God is 
love. 

551
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,560
So therefore what they create 
the world out of his love. 

552
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:12,760
What does that love look like? 
It looks like Christ on the 

553
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:16,560
cross. 
That's the origin of creation. 

554
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:18,160
That's The Fountainhead of 
creation. 

555
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,480
It's why the New Testament picks
up all this language of this is 

556
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:24,920
the birth of the new creation. 
And it's interesting because you

557
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,320
get that that Psalm today, 
you're my son today I've 

558
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,960
begotten you is applied twice in
the New Testament. 

559
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,280
Once is in the incarnation, but 
the second time is in the 

560
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:37,160
resurrection and it's applied 
it's applied both both times. 

561
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:39,480
So you and my son today have 
begotten you. 

562
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,120
Well, when when was the Son 
begotten from the Father? 

563
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,880
Well, the creed tells us he was 
never there was never a time 

564
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,240
when he wasn't begotten of the 
Father. 

565
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:50,320
He's the eternal Son. 
He doesn't become the Son and 

566
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:51,640
the Father does not become the 
father. 

567
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,440
He's always been the Father. 
The Son has always been the son.

568
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:57,200
Again, why we keep banging on 
about the Trinity. 

569
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:04,520
If we, if we see all of this 
tracks back to if we are 

570
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:08,080
prepared to pay attention to 
what the New Testament authors 

571
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:11,840
and what the early church 
theologians and Mystics are 

572
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:14,600
trying to tell us is the main 
event here. 

573
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:17,320
We will realise why they keep 
going on and on about the 

574
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:20,120
Trinity. 
Because they understand that all

575
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:24,040
these other ideas that we have 
about the nature of sin and 

576
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:28,040
judgement and human life and all
of these things, they all track 

577
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:31,480
back to who is God? 
Because who is God is going to 

578
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:33,680
tell us everything about the 
true nature of reality. 

579
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,840
What kind of God creates the 
world? 

580
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,560
Who God is going to tell us what
we expect to see the handiwork 

581
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,880
of the of the Creator. 
The nature of the Creator is 

582
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:49,360
seen in the Creator's handiwork,
the the image of God, right? 

583
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:54,400
So, but, but that is a testimony
over and against all sorts of 

584
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,760
things that we see that tell us 
a different story. 

585
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,320
That's John 1, the darkness. 
He calls it the darkness. 

586
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:05,440
He says we have a world system 
which does not tell us the truth

587
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:07,680
about who God is and what are 
places in the world. 

588
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:12,240
In fact, the system of law makes
a lot of sense to that world 

589
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,720
system. 
And we understand that, right? 

590
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:16,360
We understand. 
How do you run a society without

591
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,000
laws? 
It's very easy for us to track 

592
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,040
into in a in a human sense. 
Well, yeah, obviously you need 

593
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:22,640
rules, otherwise what's going to
happen? 

594
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:27,520
Except Jesus repeatedly blows a 
cannonball through this stuff, 

595
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:32,080
like with the when the disciples
try to stop the children coming 

596
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,280
to him. 
Why are the disciples trying to 

597
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,120
stop the children? 
Because the children could be 

598
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:40,160
ceremonially unclean. 
They could have inadvertently 

599
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,320
violated the law, but they're 
not old enough to know. 

600
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:46,120
So we have to contain them 
somehow out of the risk that 

601
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:49,840
they might bring ceremonial, 
ceremonial uncleanliness to the 

602
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,040
holy teacher. 
Maybe a dog licks them, 

603
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:54,240
something like that, and they 
come close. 

604
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,440
But not only does Jesus say let 
them come to me, he says, but 

605
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,000
you have to become like them if 
you even want to see the 

606
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,960
Kingdom. 
And who is the Kingdom is 

607
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:04,800
Christ, right? 
The Kingdom is sitting in front 

608
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,320
of them. 
They can't recognise him. 

609
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:09,440
If they could recognise him, 
they wouldn't have stopped the 

610
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,159
children coming, right? 
And when Jesus says to the 

611
00:34:12,159 --> 00:34:15,000
disciples you have to become 
like them, he's not telling them

612
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:16,639
to become something that they're
not. 

613
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:19,760
He's telling them to become 
something that they were because

614
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:24,199
they were children once. 
So he's saying return same 

615
00:34:24,199 --> 00:34:27,159
language used in the prodigal 
son when it says he came to 

616
00:34:27,159 --> 00:34:30,239
himself and said I'm better off 
in my father's house as a 

617
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:34,520
servant. 
So again, back to the question 

618
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:36,320
of sin. 
If we say sin is falling short 

619
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,159
of the glory of God, we've often
read that is sin is falling 

620
00:34:39,159 --> 00:34:41,800
short of the standard of God, 
but that's not what it says. 

621
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,679
It says glory not standard. 
Standard is a legal term. 

622
00:34:45,679 --> 00:34:47,440
Glory is something else 
altogether. 

623
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:49,760
The glory of God is his very 
nature. 

624
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:56,360
So, and what the Genesis account
tells us is that humanity is the

625
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:58,840
very nature of God, the very 
image of God. 

626
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:06,480
So sin therefore is to be out of
sync or alignment with our true 

627
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:09,400
nature, which is grounded in who
God is. 

628
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:14,440
What we get in the church is we 
get a confusion about this when 

629
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:16,680
we get into this issue of the 
doctrine of original sin. 

630
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,800
It's a Western doctrine, not an 
Eastern 1 And over time it 

631
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:24,280
builds up this idea of we are, 
we are in intrinsically 

632
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,040
shameful, corrupt, unworthy and 
deficient. 

633
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:29,680
And that problem needs to be 
resolved in order for us to 

634
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,760
return to God. 
But actually it's not God you 

635
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:34,760
need to return to. 
You need to return to yourself, 

636
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:41,240
in fact, because you have now 
you have been misled as to your 

637
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,160
true identity. 
And now that true identity can 

638
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,640
only be discovered in the light 
of the face of Christ. 

639
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:48,920
When we see him, we become like 
him. 

640
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:52,760
The Scripture says in seeing 
him, we become like him is what 

641
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:54,600
Peter experienced. 
You're the Christ, the Son of 

642
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,200
the living God, and Jesus 
responds to him immediately. 

643
00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:00,040
Simon, son of Jonah, you are 
actually Peter. 

644
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:02,320
My father has revealed this to 
you and your father. 

645
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:06,640
So Peter's true identity appears
in the very moment that he 

646
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:09,840
glimpses something by revelation
in the face of Christ. 

647
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:15,240
So here we have at the at the 
cross. 

648
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:17,200
We were talking about the veil 
being torn. 

649
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:20,680
The veil is torn at the cross 
because at that moment you 

650
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:24,880
cannot be more exposed than the 
Son of God hanging naked on the 

651
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:28,760
tree and not only that, having 
been so brutalised that even his

652
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,640
innards is showing, right. 
You can't be more physically 

653
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:33,440
exposed than crisis on the 
cross. 

654
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:39,440
This is this is God making known
in the ultimate way the complete

655
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,880
and Full disclosure. 
This is who I am fully 

656
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:45,760
revelatory. 
It's not even just revelatory in

657
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:47,880
an example sense. 
This is what love looks like. 

658
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:52,520
It's saying this is who I am. 
And in that day you'll realise I

659
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:56,480
am in you and you are in me and 
I am in the Father, that if we, 

660
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:01,720
if we catch that revelation or 
if it catches us, we've seen, 

661
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:05,120
oh, this is, this is the nature 
of the Father, Son and Spirit. 

662
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:11,560
Therefore, the way the world is,
the way the world presents 

663
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,160
itself to us is not the way that
it truly is. 

664
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:17,920
We need to wake up because it's 
like we've been engaging it in a

665
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:23,360
sleepwalk, in a coma, you know, 
seeing half, you know, like the 

666
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,080
man who's half healed, right. 
I see people, they're like trees

667
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:28,760
walking around. 
There's a there's still this 

668
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,800
kind of half dysfunction. 
You know, Hebrews talks about it

669
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,840
like types and shadows. 
So we get little glimpses and 

670
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:37,000
approximations. 
But then we take those glimpses 

671
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,720
and approximations and we begin 
to build religious constructs, 

672
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:42,840
tell a load of stories about 
that, then build a temple and 

673
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:48,400
say, and here's where God lives.
Jesus says, I will you destroy 

674
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:49,720
this temple? 
I will raise it again. 

675
00:37:49,720 --> 00:37:54,720
But it's not the temple that you
think God does not build, does 

676
00:37:54,720 --> 00:37:56,840
not live in a temple built by 
human hands. 

677
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:02,200
So all, all of this is there in 
the undercurrents of the the 

678
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:04,080
question of what's going on at 
the cross. 

679
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:08,880
What we do not see anywhere is 
God is over here, you are over 

680
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:11,040
there and here is the bridge to 
get back to him. 

681
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:16,560
It's just not there anywhere. 
And we really should expect it 

682
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:20,000
to be if that's the if that's 
the equation that's being laid 

683
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:24,560
before us. 
So I think on the on the flip 

684
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:29,360
side, the issue with the penal 
substitution, it says our 

685
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:32,640
problem is a judicial problem. 
We're guilty before a judge. 

686
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,240
Whether or not we really should 
be guilty, we don't know. 

687
00:38:35,240 --> 00:38:37,440
I mean, didn't really seem like 
such a big problem to me. 

688
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,320
But stealing that apple, but I'm
guilty before a judge and 

689
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:42,560
apparently if I've stolen that 
apple, I'm as bad as Hitler. 

690
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:47,640
So OK, everyone, everyone's then
in the in the same boat. 

691
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:52,080
Also, if you think about it, if,
if we can see, as we should see 

692
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:55,640
correctly from the scripture, 
that there is no declaration of 

693
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:59,280
separation, nor can there be a 
declaration of separation that 

694
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:01,600
the the between the son and the 
father on the cross. 

695
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,480
If the Son does not suffer 
separation from the Father on 

696
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,280
the cross, then there was never 
a thread of separation for us 

697
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:11,600
either because the cross has to 
in under that scheme, has to 

698
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:15,760
atone for the thing that we're 
in threat of suffering. 

699
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,040
So Jesus takes our punishment so
we don't get punishment. 

700
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:21,520
So if our punishment is a slap 
on the wrist, Jesus has to have 

701
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:23,960
a slap on the wrist. 
If our punishment is go to your 

702
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:25,200
room, Jesus has to go to your 
room. 

703
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,200
If your punishment is separation
from God, Jesus has to be 

704
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:30,960
separated from God. 
If he's not separated from God, 

705
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:34,800
that's not the threat. 
It just the the rug goes 

706
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,640
completely out from underneath. 
This sin is in the hands of the 

707
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:40,040
angry God schema, right? 
It dissolves. 

708
00:39:40,240 --> 00:39:42,760
There's no longer any grounds 
for us to talk in those terms. 

709
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:46,000
And when we first confront that,
it might be a bit like, well, 

710
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:48,680
gosh, hang on a minute. 
That's that's really unravelling

711
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:52,280
the the real core of my sort of 
theological basis. 

712
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,160
Like, yeah, absolutely. 
Welcome to the Western world. 

713
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:58,680
The foundations of the Western 
mind have been built on a 

714
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:01,600
separation mentality. 
Why we keep saying separation 

715
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:03,120
mentality? 
What do you mean separation 

716
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:04,160
mentality? 
This is what we're talking 

717
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:09,840
about, the idea that our problem
is to be punished by separation 

718
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:11,680
from God for doing the wrong 
things. 

719
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:23,420
Antichrist here. 
Oh, yeah, We were talking about 

720
00:40:23,420 --> 00:40:23,980
the other day. 
Yeah. 

721
00:40:27,620 --> 00:40:33,760
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

722
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:36,680
So the the the question for the 
recording, can we separate 

723
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:38,520
ourselves from God by an act of 
our will? 

724
00:40:38,720 --> 00:40:41,520
Is it coercive for God to not 
allow that? 

725
00:40:42,720 --> 00:40:49,440
And we mentioned Wes Huff. 
OK, so great, great question. 

726
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:52,280
So I think it's interesting. 
You've got the the it's Luke, is

727
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:54,520
it Luke 15? 
Am I getting that right? 

728
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,560
The prodigal son, There's three,
there are three parables, right?

729
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:00,920
And you, you have the, the 
prodigal son, you have the lost 

730
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:04,480
coin and the lost sheep. 
And they're all telling the same

731
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:06,000
story from different angles, 
right? 

732
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:12,880
So the prodigal son, what's 
interesting is that parable of 

733
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:18,000
all of them does end with 
somebody who is on the outside 

734
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:22,600
and it's the elder son who's 
who's outside the party, right? 

735
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:25,760
There's a consistent metaphor of
Jesus's inside the party, 

736
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:29,400
outside the party, but the 
eldest son is not separated from

737
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:33,520
God, because where's the Father?
He's with the eldest son outside

738
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,440
the party. 
What's the father doing, trying 

739
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:39,600
to persuade him to come in? 
Will the older son come in? 

740
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:43,160
Up to you to finish the story, 
because it's supposed to be 

741
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:45,920
about you, right? 
Well, are you going to come in 

742
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:47,800
or not? 
He, he, he leaves. 

743
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:49,600
He leaves you. 
Jesus leaves you to write the 

744
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:51,280
ending. 
Where do you want to be in this 

745
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:52,480
picture? 
You know this is supposed to 

746
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,080
create an immediate reaction. 
It's not supposed to be like an 

747
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:57,080
abstract thing. 
It's supposed to bring you to 

748
00:41:57,080 --> 00:41:59,280
Ground Zero at that moment. 
I'm talking about you. 

749
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:01,880
Where are you in the read 
yourself in the story. 

750
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:05,320
You know the other two parables,
though. 

751
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:07,440
You have the lost sheep. 
The lost sheep has fallen down 

752
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:09,240
the mountainside. 
It has no way to get itself 

753
00:42:09,240 --> 00:42:11,520
back, has no will. 
It's a sheep. 

754
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:12,640
You know what's it supposed to 
do? 

755
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,360
The shepherd goes down and picks
it up and takes it with him. 

756
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:17,760
Does the sheep have a choice in 
what's happening here? 

757
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,200
I mean, this doesn't doesn't 
really say like free choice 

758
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:22,640
factors very highly in that 
particular parable. 

759
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:25,840
Equally with the lost coin, the 
coin is lost. 

760
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,560
But where is the coin lost? 
It's lost in the house, not out 

761
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:33,240
of the house. 
And as my friend Francois 

762
00:42:33,240 --> 00:42:37,720
Detroit puts it, the the the 
lost coin never lost its value. 

763
00:42:37,720 --> 00:42:40,440
It still has the same value. 
And you get back to this 

764
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:43,520
question of Jesus and Caesar, 
whose inscription is on the 

765
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:47,240
coin. 
The point is it's Caesar's 

766
00:42:47,240 --> 00:42:49,760
inscription on the coin, but 
whose inscription is on Caesar? 

767
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:51,640
God, because Caesar's in God's 
image. 

768
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:54,760
So render to Caesar what 
Caesar's but render to God what 

769
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:57,600
is God's in other, in other 
words, there is no God but God, 

770
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:01,400
Caesar. 
You need to return even in even 

771
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:04,480
in that you have this the, the 
issue of whose, whose hallmark 

772
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:08,640
is carried on the coin. 
So in those parables, we don't 

773
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:10,600
have a picture of separation 
either. 

774
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:13,040
Even in Revelation. 
I mean, let's go, let's go 

775
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:17,360
straight to the heavy guns. 
You don't have anybody separated

776
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:21,920
from God in Revelation. 
You have the the beast and the 

777
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:27,560
false prophet in the lake of 
fire that says explicitly in the

778
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:29,440
presence of the Lamb and his 
holy angels. 

779
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:34,760
And you have the people who are 
the resistors saying, let the 

780
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:37,360
rocks fall on us and hide us 
from his presence. 

781
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:40,560
Implication being, you can't 
hide, right? 

782
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:44,160
So actually what you have in 
this picture are people who are 

783
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:46,360
trying to achieve separation and
they cannot. 

784
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:50,160
Why can't you achieve separation
in him? 

785
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:51,560
We live and move and have our 
being. 

786
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:55,640
It's the nature of reality. 
How can you be separated from 

787
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:57,320
reality? 
It's nonsensical. 

788
00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:04,080
Jesus is Mr Reality, He is the 
divine word by which God upholds

789
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:09,280
the existence of all things. 
So the revelation of that we get

790
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:12,440
of God in Christ is not one that
says here's a law you can be in 

791
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:14,440
or out. 
Here's a mechanism to, you know,

792
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:16,640
Orient yourself. 
It's one that says it's no 

793
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:18,560
longer I who live, but Christ 
living in me. 

794
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:23,120
So I haven't got I haven't got 
any any. 

795
00:44:23,720 --> 00:44:25,760
There's no self power here at 
all. 

796
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:29,160
And that's not something that I 
initiated by believing correctly

797
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:31,360
or praying correctly or doing 
correctly. 

798
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:34,520
That's something that was always
true and I never knew it. 

799
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:39,720
All the while the very Higgs 
field, if you like, if it's an 

800
00:44:39,720 --> 00:44:44,880
appropriate metaphor that is the
fabric of physical reality has a

801
00:44:45,240 --> 00:44:48,200
has a personal name and it's 
Jesus Christ, the Son of God. 

802
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:54,960
How do you get away from that? 
So yes, we affirm this love is 

803
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:58,960
not coercive and that 
relationship is relationship is 

804
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:02,080
only relationship when it's 
uncoerced. 

805
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:09,120
But because we if we understand 
the when we talk about this 

806
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:11,640
issue of glory, you know, the 
Bible talks about the sun 

807
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:14,560
glorifying God. 
How does the sun glorify God? 

808
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:17,800
Well, it glorifies God by being 
a son, right? 

809
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:20,000
It's created to be a son and 
that's what it's supposed to be.

810
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:23,080
And by being what it is created 
to be, it glorifies God. 

811
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:26,960
Well, in the same way that how 
do we as human beings glorify 

812
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:30,240
God? 
Well, by being human, which 

813
00:45:30,240 --> 00:45:33,760
means that our, our original 
design, going back to this issue

814
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:35,640
of Jesus saying, let the 
children come to me because you 

815
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:39,680
have to become like them, is to 
say that any will that is 

816
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:43,200
resisting God is not a will that
is free because it is a will 

817
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:46,520
that is acting not in accordance
with its true nature or its true

818
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:49,960
origin. 
So we can say, well, I'm free to

819
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:51,960
reject God. 
Well, that's not freedom though.

820
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:54,120
That's called enslavement to 
sin. 

821
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:57,640
It's not freedom. 
There's a, there's a kind of 

822
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:02,160
mythological idea that we have 
a, an, an, a disconnected will 

823
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:06,440
that is transcendent and is able
to act fully autonomously in 

824
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:09,280
this situation and rationally 
choose God or not. 

825
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:11,840
Bible doesn't say that. 
It says no one can come to the 

826
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:13,960
Father unless the Son, and no 
one can come to the Son unless 

827
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:16,160
the Father draws him. 
And no one knows the Father 

828
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:18,080
except the Son and those to whom
the Son reveals him. 

829
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:22,120
Break your way into that loop. 
Can't get to the Father without 

830
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:24,360
going through the Son, Can't get
to the Son without going through

831
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:25,640
the Father. 
How am I supposed to break into 

832
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:27,120
that? 
How am I supposed to choose 

833
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:29,480
that? 
But you can't, right? 

834
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:31,360
It's supposed. 
It's supposed to crash you into 

835
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:34,320
the wall. 
It's supposed to be with the law

836
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:38,160
has so increased sin that you no
longer under the delusion that 

837
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:40,080
you're able to break your way 
back into this thing. 

838
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:43,240
And now through the law, I die 
to the law. 

839
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:45,120
Ah, OK, I realise that's the 
end. 

840
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:48,280
Finished. 
Christ is the last Adam, not the

841
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:51,000
second Adam. 
That's the end of Adam. 

842
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:53,280
Now he's the second creation. 
He's the new man. 

843
00:46:54,520 --> 00:47:03,680
OK, had her hand up first. 
I'll try the concept of justice.

844
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:18,600
I mean, I like to, to discuss. 
I think for me, I think in, in 

845
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:22,360
injustice means there are things
going on right now that should 

846
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:26,120
not be going on. 
Justice means those things being

847
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:28,600
put right. 
What does it look like for them 

848
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:32,480
to be put right? 
I mean, it depends right, on a 

849
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:34,360
lot of a lot of things, a lot of
situations. 

850
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:39,680
So to me, the issue of justice 
and injustice is all the things 

851
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:41,320
that are wrong getting put 
right. 

852
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:46,680
My best definition for it in 
terms of ABS, the issue of 

853
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:50,680
absolution is an important one. 
How are we absolved from the 

854
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:53,520
weight of the consequences of 
our actions? 

855
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:54,960
Well, the cross addresses that, 
right? 

856
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:57,520
It's that, well, I'm, it's no 
longer I who live for Christ, 

857
00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:00,840
who lives in me. 
It's why I don't like worthiness

858
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:02,520
language. 
I have to say this is a little 

859
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:04,760
bit of a bugbear of mine. 
We're so unworthy. 

860
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:09,320
Well, who decides who's worthy? 
Well, God decides who's worthy. 

861
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:13,160
How does he decide who's worthy?
Well, by his actions, he decided

862
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:16,880
like what to be worthy means to 
be worth something, right? 

863
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:21,600
So if he if he chooses to 
become, to take on flesh and be 

864
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:25,080
Incarnate and share in our 
humanity, is that not a 

865
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:28,280
declaration that he says, well, 
yeah, I consider that worth it. 

866
00:48:28,720 --> 00:48:31,520
Otherwise we're in a situation 
where we're saying, well, God, 

867
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:33,200
you're kind of wrong about that,
aren't you? 

868
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:35,640
We get that you're being nice to
us, but we're still unworthy. 

869
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:39,360
And as a as an aside, I think 
that's what the whole business 

870
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:41,400
about head coverings is in 
Corinthians, by the way, there's

871
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:47,280
a as a rabbit trail on that one.
So I think do not call anything 

872
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:48,920
unclean that God has declared 
clean. 

873
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:51,720
So do not call anything unworthy
that God has declared unworthy. 

874
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:55,040
And that starts with ourselves. 
When the apostle Peter first 

875
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:57,640
meets Jesus, he says, go away 
from me, Lord, I'm a sinful man.

876
00:48:57,800 --> 00:48:59,720
Well, he doesn't say that six 
months later when he's arguing 

877
00:48:59,720 --> 00:49:01,320
about who's going to be the 
greatest in the Kingdom of 

878
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:03,960
heaven. 
So hanging out with Jesus for a 

879
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:06,160
couple of months has radically 
altered his perception of 

880
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:08,440
himself. 
And he seems to be shedding 

881
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:11,880
quite rapidly a lot of things 
that we just take for granted as

882
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:13,880
well as that's just take. 
That's just a given, isn't it? 

883
00:49:14,720 --> 00:49:17,560
But the question of, well, what,
what does, what does justice 

884
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:19,240
mean then? 
Well, is justice not? 

885
00:49:20,240 --> 00:49:23,080
I see there are things that are 
wrong and I am compelled to act 

886
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:25,720
to put them right. 
Is justice not? 

887
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:29,880
I'm so aware that when I 
disregarded that person, I 

888
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:32,800
actually disregarded the Christ 
who holds me together. 

889
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:37,560
How what a low vision I've had 
of human beings and what kind of

890
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:41,640
catastrophic effects has it had 
on my relationships, on the 

891
00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:43,800
planet, on society and on 
myself? 

892
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:48,600
It's is that, is that not 
something that summons us to 

893
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:53,040
live according to the reality of
who Christ says we are and who 

894
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:55,280
he is? 
Is that not the new creation? 

895
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:59,880
Is that not to put on Christ? 
To me, this is this is all about

896
00:49:59,920 --> 00:50:03,200
acting as the Scripture says, as
you look forward to the day of 

897
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:06,000
the Lord and hasten its arrival.
And there's my eschatology. 

898
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:07,880
Jesus is coming back. 
He's going to put all, all 

899
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:09,480
wrongs right. 
I don't really know how that's 

900
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:11,880
going to happen, but I do know 
we get to participate in that 

901
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:15,080
right now in acting to put all 
wrongs right. 

902
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:17,360
One of the problems with the 
evangelical message is it 

903
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:21,640
doesn't really provide any, any 
mechanism for restitution 

904
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:24,840
because it's so burnt by the 
Catholic penance mentality that 

905
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:27,440
you need to, you need to make 
reparations, you know, through 

906
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:30,440
what whatever it's so burnt by 
that it doesn't see that 

907
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:33,560
Zacchaeus gives back fourfold 
what he embezzled. 

908
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:36,240
And then Jesus said salvation 
has come to this house, 

909
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:39,480
Wholeness has come to this 
house, that the image of God has

910
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:42,680
been restored in this place 
because Zacchaeus is now so 

911
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:43,640
seen. 
Hang on a minute. 

912
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:46,840
How could I, I, I, I could do 
with a hard heart. 

913
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:50,320
I could mistreat people, you 
know, steamroll over them and, 

914
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:52,040
and sleep perfectly well at 
night. 

915
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:54,160
Now I've seen Jesus, I can't do 
that anymore. 

916
00:50:54,720 --> 00:50:56,160
It's impossible for me to do 
that. 

917
00:50:57,240 --> 00:50:58,440
That's called the fear of the 
Lord. 

918
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:01,320
The fear of the Lord is what you
feel when you hold a newborn 

919
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:06,440
child in your arms. 
I'm on full alert that I do not 

920
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:07,840
drop this kid on his head, 
Right? 

921
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:10,920
That's called the fear of the 
Lord, not the fear of the Lord. 

922
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:13,160
I'm afraid that if I do this 
wrong thing, I'm going to get 

923
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:15,360
punished by God. 
John tells us to throw that out.

924
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:17,960
So that kind of fear is to do 
with punishment. 

925
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:20,120
And the one who fears is not 
made perfect in love. 

926
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:21,960
God is love. 
Perfect love casts out all fear.

927
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:26,440
So our conceptualizations of 
justice need to be much holier. 

928
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:30,720
They are far too base, far too 
secular, far too involved with 

929
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:35,920
our arbitrary notions of 
fairness, economics, legalities,

930
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:38,280
all of those things that 
characterise this world system 

931
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:42,360
that will pass away. 
We need to be liberated from the

932
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:45,520
that debased way of thinking and
understand God's kind of justice

933
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:47,840
is nothing short of the rest 
than the restoration of all 

934
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:49,520
things into the headship of 
Christ. 

935
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:52,080
The recapitulation of all things
into the headship of Christ, 

936
00:51:52,240 --> 00:51:55,200
which Ephesians says is the 
administration we've been given 

937
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:58,360
to participate in as the church.
Restoration of all things, 

938
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:01,160
putting all things that are 
wrong, putting them right. 

939
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:02,200
Put it. 
Put it simply. 

940
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:05,520
That's my riff on the concept of
justice. 

941
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:08,400
I'm sure there's hundreds of 
other things to say, but Alice. 

942
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:10,880
And then we'll finish if you 
wanted to. 

943
00:52:18,330 --> 00:52:23,360
Yeah, this. 
Is in Ephesians and I'm not I'm 

944
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:26,840
genuinely not proof texting 
because that's irritating I but 

945
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:31,440
I'm genuinely asking how this 
fits in So in Ephesians one and 

946
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:36,040
two in him we have redemption 
through his blood, the 

947
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:38,760
forgiveness of sins in 
accordance with the riches of 

948
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:41,840
God's grace that he lavished on 
us with all wisdom and 

949
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:44,480
understanding. 
He made known to us the mystery 

950
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:47,280
of His will, according to His 
good pleasure, which He purposed

951
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:50,440
in Christ to be put into effect 
when the times reached their 

952
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:53,360
fulfilment, to bring unity to 
all things in heaven and on 

953
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:56,720
earth under Christ. 
In Him we were also chosen, 

954
00:52:56,760 --> 00:52:59,360
having been predestined 
according to the plan of Him who

955
00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:01,960
works out everything in 
conformity with the purpose of 

956
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:05,320
His will, in order that we, who 
were the first to put our hope 

957
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:08,160
in Christ, might be for the 
praise of His glory. 

958
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:12,680
And you also were included in 
Christ when you heard the 

959
00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:16,000
message of truth, the gospel of 
your salvation, when you 

960
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:19,400
believed, you were marked in Him
with a seal, the promised Holy 

961
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:22,080
Spirit, who is a deposit 
guaranteeing our inheritance 

962
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:26,800
until the redemption of those 
who are in God's possession to 

963
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:30,920
the praise of his glory. 
And then the other one. 

964
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:39,240
And then in in chapter 2, it 
talks about, you know, we were, 

965
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:41,320
we're in darkness, now we're in 
light. 

966
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:45,120
Therefore, remember that 
formerly you who are Gentiles by

967
00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:48,160
birth and called uncircumcised 
by those who call themselves the

968
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:51,040
circumcision, which is done in 
the body by human hands. 

969
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:55,000
Remember that at that time you 
were separate from Christ, 

970
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:58,040
excluded from citizenship in 
Israel and foreigners to the 

971
00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:01,000
covenants of the promise, 
without hope and without God in 

972
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:03,760
the world. 
But now in Christ Jesus, you who

973
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:06,760
are once far away have been 
brought near by the blood of 

974
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:10,200
Christ, for he himself is our 
peace, who has made the two 

975
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:13,040
groups one and has destroyed the
barrier, the dividing wall of 

976
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:16,640
hostility. 
And so I think, I think it's 

977
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:20,560
probably obvious what I'm 
asking, but it feels like in 

978
00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:28,120
that first section that there is
a distinction between people who

979
00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:31,520
have been marked by the Holy 
Spirit depositing deposit as a 

980
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:34,000
deposit, what is to come. 
And there's a moment of 

981
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:39,480
inclusion through faith. 
And then also the the Gentiles, 

982
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:42,720
it seemed like they were 
excluded and separated. 

983
00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:48,080
And now through the the death 
and resurrection of Jesus are 

984
00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:50,680
included. 
So that language of exclusion, 

985
00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:53,680
inclusion and separation seems 
to be there in Ephesians. 

986
00:54:56,680 --> 00:54:59,640
So separation is a is a 
translation of a word. 

987
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:02,920
And again, we bring our baggage 
of what separation actually 

988
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:05,880
means. 
I would refer to Paul. 

989
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:07,520
In him we live and live and have
our being. 

990
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:15,440
Does that mean separation? 
So I think we we see that there 

991
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:18,560
are many ways in which our 
experiences of relationship 

992
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:23,120
correspond to changes in 
fundamental changes in how we 

993
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:25,400
view the world, how we view 
ourselves, how we relate to God.

994
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:28,560
And these are descriptions of 
experiences. 

995
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:31,440
They're not descriptions of 
ontologies, right? 

996
00:55:32,240 --> 00:55:35,120
There's the truth of our being 
and the way of our being, to 

997
00:55:35,240 --> 00:55:39,840
quote Paul Young. 
So you have the spirit poured 

998
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:44,280
out on all flesh, especially the
believers in the book of Acts. 

999
00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:47,600
What does that feel like? 
Well, if you don't know about it

1000
00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:49,160
probably doesn't feel like 
anything. 

1001
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:51,120
But how can they believe unless 
they've heard? 

1002
00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:54,480
Well, now that you've heard, oh,
hang on a minute, that starts to

1003
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:57,760
feel like something. 
So I think a lot, a lot of what 

1004
00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:00,880
is written here, especially when
you look at the the second parts

1005
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:03,520
of the epistles, they usually, 
they usually start with the 

1006
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:05,960
grand definition of terms, 
right. 

1007
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:10,480
So you have Jesus as the creator
and sustainer of all things, all

1008
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:13,120
things being not just brought 
into unity, in fact, but 

1009
00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:17,280
reconstituted into the head in 
in fact, it's not he's up there 

1010
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:18,760
and we're all in unity under 
him. 

1011
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:22,560
It is your all reconstituted 
into the very body is is the 

1012
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:25,800
image. 
So I think we've got to, we need

1013
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:32,200
to be careful of the Western 
lens through which which the our

1014
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:35,000
translations have also been 
passed through and what things 

1015
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:36,560
they emphasise and what things 
they don't. 

1016
00:56:36,720 --> 00:56:39,200
That's why we don't, as you'll 
know from my book, right, my 

1017
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:42,560
thoughts on the concept of solar
scriptura is a problem because 

1018
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:44,520
you can never read scriptura 
solar. 

1019
00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:49,920
You always bring it with the the
baggage and the the baggage that

1020
00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:54,800
others have included in, you 
know, in the however well 

1021
00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:56,680
meaning there might be. 
We'll do it in terms of those 

1022
00:56:56,680 --> 00:57:01,120
translations. 
So I would say if you we don't, 

1023
00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:05,480
we don't have a univocal layout 
in the Bible. 

1024
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:08,840
Like you can pick proof text and
end up almost anywhere as we've 

1025
00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:12,760
kind of discussed before. 
So I, I want to say what, what's

1026
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:15,280
our first principles here? 
Our first principles are the, 

1027
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:19,760
the nature and character of God,
his relationship to the world 

1028
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:21,600
and humanity. 
This is the fundamental thing 

1029
00:57:21,600 --> 00:57:24,520
we're addressing now on on top 
of that, there's a whole bunch 

1030
00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:26,240
of experiences that we account 
for. 

1031
00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:31,200
And also the way that we see 
those experiences, we may change

1032
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:33,760
how we understand them during 
the course of our lives as well.

1033
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:36,560
This is real, this is lived. 
It's not, it's not abstract. 

1034
00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:42,960
So we see Jesus talking about 
being outside or in the outer 

1035
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:46,480
darkness or inside in in the 
part we we see lots of these 

1036
00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:50,320
descriptions of what this looks 
like. 

1037
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:53,680
But if you try and add them all 
up together in literally into a 

1038
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:55,440
coherent whole that's 
nonsensical. 

1039
00:57:55,840 --> 00:57:56,920
Well, are you in? 
Are you out? 

1040
00:57:56,920 --> 00:57:58,840
It's like, well, the lake of 
fires in, but the outer darkness

1041
00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:00,000
is out. 
Are they two different things? 

1042
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:01,080
Are they the same thing? 
Like what? 

1043
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:03,920
What are we dealing with here? 
The problem is we're approaching

1044
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:07,160
it with a a Western systematic 
mentality that thinks these 

1045
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:11,560
things all piece together on a 
flat puzzle, like a flat puzzle 

1046
00:58:11,560 --> 00:58:13,280
on the table. 
But that's not what the early 

1047
00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:16,120
church gave us. 
Hence our conversations before 

1048
00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:19,200
theology and biblical studies, 
especially when it comes to the 

1049
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:22,680
proof texting. 
So faith is faith is not only 

1050
00:58:22,680 --> 00:58:24,400
important, I mean, it's 
essential. 

1051
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:27,280
But Paul also gives us that 
faith is a gift from God. 

1052
00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:29,320
He also says it's not of 
ourselves. 

1053
00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:31,720
He also says faith is the person
of the Holy Spirit. 

1054
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:35,000
How do you get the person of the
Holy Spirit if you require faith

1055
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:37,320
to get the Holy Spirit? 
Again, it comes back to how do 

1056
00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:39,640
you get the Father if you need 
the Son to get the Father, but 

1057
00:58:39,640 --> 00:58:41,240
you can't get the Son without 
the Father. 

1058
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:44,360
All of these things, the more 
you think about it, the more it 

1059
00:58:44,360 --> 00:58:47,880
throws you. 
It's like it, it starts to 

1060
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:50,600
recede out of view beyond the 
horizon because you realise 

1061
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:53,120
there's no, there's no 
accessibility to it until you 

1062
00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:56,600
realise all of this is not I but
Christ, right? 

1063
00:58:56,600 --> 00:59:00,240
What he has done, what he has 
accomplished from the foundation

1064
00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:03,520
of the world. 
So you have the the issue with 

1065
00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:06,440
the Calvinist and the Armenian 
views on this is that they both 

1066
00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:08,840
start with this faulty 
assumption that it is about us 

1067
00:59:08,840 --> 00:59:10,520
at all. 
It's not about us. 

1068
00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:13,800
We were talking on the table. 
When God makes the covenant with

1069
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:15,520
Abraham, Abraham makes no 
covenant. 

1070
00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:18,120
Abraham waits to make the 
covenant and he waits long 

1071
00:59:18,120 --> 00:59:20,520
enough to fall asleep, which is 
a symbol of death. 

1072
00:59:20,520 --> 00:59:24,440
And then while he's asleep, the 
Spirit appears and makes the 

1073
00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:27,880
covenant with God, makes the 
covenant with God's self. 

1074
00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:30,760
Where's Abraham? 
He's as the guy's asleep, he's 

1075
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:34,800
not doing anything. 
So again, this issue of we, we 

1076
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:39,000
can, we can take practical 
descriptions about what life is 

1077
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:41,680
like within the family of 
believers who have awoken to the

1078
00:59:41,680 --> 00:59:44,440
reality. 
We can take that. 

1079
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:51,680
But if we if we misapply that 
and say this is making baseline 

1080
00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:57,720
fundamental statements about our
anthropology, like who we are as

1081
00:59:57,720 --> 01:00:00,560
human beings, because it's 
making fundamental statements as

1082
01:00:00,560 --> 01:00:03,640
who God is, then we run into 
real problems. 

1083
01:00:04,360 --> 01:00:08,520
So yes, it absolutely matters. 
We've got, but we, we have, you 

1084
01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:11,480
know, Christ is the Saviour of 
all men, especially those who 

1085
01:00:11,480 --> 01:00:12,840
believe. 
Well, how do you put that 

1086
01:00:12,840 --> 01:00:15,440
together with the Ephesians 
passage about what you also were

1087
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:17,240
included in him when you 
believed. 

1088
01:00:17,240 --> 01:00:21,880
It's like, well, yeah, OK, you 
heard, now you believed, and now

1089
01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:25,080
you've awoken. 
You awoke to what you were 

1090
01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:27,560
already in. 
When you weren't awake to it, it

1091
01:00:27,560 --> 01:00:30,480
was as if you were dead to it. 
So, yeah, your way of life was 

1092
01:00:30,480 --> 01:00:34,080
destructive, had no knowledge of
God, Gentiles, you didn't have 

1093
01:00:34,080 --> 01:00:36,960
any, anything that was remotely 
giving you an articulation about

1094
01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:39,440
what God was like. 
So you were screwing around and 

1095
01:00:39,440 --> 01:00:42,720
burning this child sacrifice, 
all this horrific stuff that you

1096
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:44,280
were living. 
It's a bit of a caricature, but 

1097
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:45,640
that's the New Testament's 
giving. 

1098
01:00:46,040 --> 01:00:47,960
So yeah, that's pretty 
destructive. 

1099
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:50,480
It's a good description. 
Now you've heard things have 

1100
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:52,880
changed. 
This is just very real, it's 

1101
01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:55,200
very experiential. 
But if we, if we think it's 

1102
01:00:55,240 --> 01:00:58,440
ontological, we're, we're, we're
running up into problems. 

1103
01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:03,520
The, the ontological stuff. 
If we, we look at the, the 

1104
01:01:03,520 --> 01:01:06,840
serious statements, the really 
serious ontological statements 

1105
01:01:06,840 --> 01:01:09,400
in the script, ontological 
meaning, what, what is the truth

1106
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:11,360
about the way things are? 
You know, what is the nature of 

1107
01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:13,920
our being? 
When we the more we start 

1108
01:01:13,920 --> 01:01:16,640
looking at that, the more we 
again, we start say, hang on a 

1109
01:01:16,640 --> 01:01:20,120
minute, this, this separation 
thing, if we even use that word,

1110
01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:21,520
I think alienation is a better 
word. 

1111
01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:24,400
It's a relational word. 
And this alienation thing, even 

1112
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:27,600
that is a lie because it's 
deception. 

1113
01:01:27,600 --> 01:01:30,680
The father, the father of lies 
has spun a lie and we're caught 

1114
01:01:30,680 --> 01:01:32,240
in the lie. 
Well, that lie is very 

1115
01:01:32,240 --> 01:01:34,120
dangerous. 
When we live and act on that 

1116
01:01:34,120 --> 01:01:36,640
lie, we do destructive things, 
destructive things that are 

1117
01:01:36,640 --> 01:01:39,320
going to need to be put right to
the point before about justice. 

1118
01:01:39,720 --> 01:01:47,840
But all, all of that's there. 
But yeah, but yeah, sure, yeah, 

1119
01:01:47,840 --> 01:01:49,320
I'm happy. 
Let me, let me just finish my 

1120
01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:51,840
thought and then I will stick 
around, you know, for, for, for 

1121
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:54,520
any others. 
But, but I think this is this is

1122
01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:56,800
the issue of why wait till week 
7 to even get on to the question

1123
01:01:56,800 --> 01:01:58,040
of the cross? 
Because it's like we've got to 

1124
01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:03,320
put the pieces down that are 
showing up where, where we we 

1125
01:02:03,320 --> 01:02:07,360
have an epistemological problem 
with the fundamentalist approach

1126
01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:10,640
to Scripture that believes 
things about the Bible that the 

1127
01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:16,200
Bible does not tolerate. 
So we have to sit and take 

1128
01:02:16,200 --> 01:02:19,520
seriously what the scripture is 
saying and let it work on us. 

1129
01:02:19,520 --> 01:02:22,160
But not every part of the 
scripture is designed to do the 

1130
01:02:22,160 --> 01:02:24,080
same thing. 
Every part of the scripture is 

1131
01:02:24,080 --> 01:02:26,200
telling us who we are. 
Some of this is just telling us 

1132
01:02:26,200 --> 01:02:28,360
like how you should behave, 
right? 

1133
01:02:28,360 --> 01:02:30,920
Let's just bring this down to 
some real basic levels. 

1134
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:35,280
And it's descriptive a lot of 
the time. 

1135
01:02:35,280 --> 01:02:39,440
So, but again, from on to the 
final point on the 

1136
01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:42,000
eschatological front where 
everything's going there, no 

1137
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:44,560
theologian worth their salt will
tell you that the New Testament 

1138
01:02:44,560 --> 01:02:46,000
is consistent on its 
eschatology. 

1139
01:02:46,680 --> 01:02:49,080
You will not find a consistent 
or coherent picture. 

1140
01:02:49,080 --> 01:02:50,640
We could say whether it's all 
this is all going. 

1141
01:02:50,840 --> 01:02:52,200
That's why I take it very 
minimally. 

1142
01:02:52,240 --> 01:02:54,000
Jesus is coming back. 
He's going to sort it all out. 

1143
01:02:55,360 --> 01:02:58,360
So, so that should also tell us 
something about the nature of 

1144
01:02:58,360 --> 01:03:01,400
the book and how we kind of need
to work with the book. 

1145
01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:03,880
But again, go back, go back to 
John. 

1146
01:03:05,240 --> 01:03:11,720
That's why I think we we have a 
priority here in theologically, 

1147
01:03:11,720 --> 01:03:14,640
we we have a priority in when 
the Bible says God is love. 

1148
01:03:14,640 --> 01:03:17,360
That's priority to me. 
It's a statement about essence 

1149
01:03:17,880 --> 01:03:20,600
when it says God is just that's 
telling us an attribute. 

1150
01:03:21,520 --> 01:03:23,720
Will it? 
An attribute derives from the 

1151
01:03:23,720 --> 01:03:25,720
essence. 
So what does justice mean for 

1152
01:03:25,720 --> 01:03:27,160
God? 
It can only be an expression of 

1153
01:03:27,160 --> 01:03:28,960
love. 
So there's a priority even 

1154
01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:30,680
within that. 
What you often get in the 

1155
01:03:30,680 --> 01:03:32,720
evangelical sense or the 
fundamentalist sense, if I put 

1156
01:03:32,720 --> 01:03:35,840
it that way, those things get 
put flat out on the table and as

1157
01:03:35,840 --> 01:03:37,800
supposed to is where we get this
idea. 

1158
01:03:37,800 --> 01:03:41,000
You know me, I don't like it. 
Tension, you know, Well, there's

1159
01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:42,320
a tension between love and 
justice. 

1160
01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:44,160
Well, only if you don't know 
what justice is and only if you 

1161
01:03:44,160 --> 01:03:46,400
don't know what love is. 
Otherwise there's no tension. 

1162
01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:52,000
There's no tension in God so 
big, obviously big topics on 

1163
01:03:52,200 --> 01:03:55,320
hermeneutics kind of all round, 
but I would say there's no 

1164
01:03:55,320 --> 01:03:57,000
attempt to dodge these kind of 
scriptures. 

1165
01:03:57,000 --> 01:04:00,960
I think it's framing them in the
in in in the correct manner. 

1166
01:04:01,320 --> 01:04:03,480
And you said it yourself in 
there in the in the first, the 

1167
01:04:03,480 --> 01:04:06,720
first chapter of Ephesians, it 
sets the table out for us, the 

1168
01:04:06,720 --> 01:04:10,040
reconstitution of all things 
into the headship of Christ. 

1169
01:04:10,040 --> 01:04:12,320
That sets the parameters. 
OK, now we've dealt with the 

1170
01:04:12,320 --> 01:04:14,040
parameters, Let's deal with the 
practicalities. 

1171
01:04:14,360 --> 01:04:16,440
Practicalities are look, you are
a mess. 

1172
01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:18,120
You believed. 
Now you've got your act 

1173
01:04:18,120 --> 01:04:20,400
together. 
Now you've experienced, it's 

1174
01:04:20,400 --> 01:04:23,720
like it's like coming home to 
metaphor him. 

1175
01:04:23,720 --> 01:04:27,680
Anyway, I think I'll stop to 
before before Chris hasn't. 

1176
01:04:30,200 --> 01:04:30,600
Cheers.