All right, so today we have a special guest on the show.
I am excited because this is the first time actually Mitchell and
I have got a chance to meet because we have been following
each other on threads for a while, just connecting over our
shared life experience with ADHD, how it shows up in our
lives, how it shows up as he's going to be a parent soon and
some other cool things that he's doing.
And so I'm really excited to, one, get to know you a little
bit better, Mitchell. But also, we have a shared
passion about supporting people in the ADHD community because
this is our life, right? It definitely is, and it comes
with so many complexities. So I think like helping people
and kind of even at least just being like an ear or shoulder to
cry on it's. Yeah.
Is a. Yes, I love when I first
introduced, got introduced to you on threads and I was like,
all right, I'm gonna give this this threads thing a 30 day
trial. And you were one of the first
people that was just like super encouraging, not only just in my
journey, but also just in threads and all this stuff.
And I was like, I'm a fan. This guy's awesome and connected
me with different people and just growing, not just growing
my audience, but growing the idea of what could happen on
social media. I feel like it's been such a,
it's been kind of a rough journey for me.
And I feel like this is like, I was like, OK, this is our common
thing. But then you're doing so many,
really, you're just doing so many amazing things in true ADHD
fashion to it. Would be boring if I wasn't
doing so many things, or it would be very uncharacteristic
of ADHD if I was just like doing one thing.
Right. I always told my daughter I was
like, only boring people are bored now.
I'm like, I'm never bored because there's always something
I'm like trying to figure out. Like, my gosh, like, what can I
do next? Like there's always something.
So I would love it if you would just kind of share a little bit
of your journey, whatever you want to share today.
This is kind of like a open, open dialogue for us to get to
know each other better. But also I would love if you
would share more of your story and kind of what led to today
actually. So I've been diagnosed with AHD
since I was nine years old. I've been been on a lot of
different medications and it wasn't, it's all about probably
a year ago I fully started embracing my ADHD and journey
and being public about it because I was the classic like
label as an overachiever. Like had tons of potential.
And then you don't assert yourself or you don't apply
yourself and you get the classic kind of perspective from all
your teachers and stuff. And it's like, and then yeah,
about a year ago, I started just talking about it, just being
open about it. And it kind of my brother, for
example, kind of just, he was kind of scared for me because
he's like, why are you being this opener?
Why are you this public? It's like, because the more I
talk about this stuff, the more I actually feel empowered that
it's the part of my life. It's not something that's gonna
ruin or even like prevent me from doing things type of thing.
So it's like talking about it and I have found has actually
helped me connect with other people too.
Like, I was at a networking event for my wife when she was
in Pennsylvania school when I started talking about my ADHD.
And then somebody goes, yeah, my brother has had that forever.
So it's really cool to see people connect the dots and
start talking about their family and stuff.
I feel like it's easier to connect with people more deeper
level. And that's the thing I like
about talking about ADHD is because what I found about how
we connect is we get right into the deep stuff.
There's no ruffle anything. It's not, it's like I had a dog
when I was 6, like my, my aunt just died last week.
Like it's you just start unloading and then people don't
know how to either you either you get it one or two ways.
Somebody will go down the rabbit hole with you, or somebody will
be like, OK, whoa, whoa, we're moving way too fast.
Yes, yes, I'm with you on that rabbit hole because I'm like,
oh, wait, what about let's let's go this way, let's go that way.
You have you're a very multi passionate person and so I would
love to. You had like a big, a big thing
happen in life recently. Actually, you've had a lot of
big things happen in life. Recently, yeah, it that seems
like it happens pretty like everything converges at the same
time and it's like like, yeah, you work so hard for all these
things and then everything happens at the same time.
You're OK? How do I manage everything?
Yeah, and it kind of sometimes, at least for me, I feel like
it's like the the Chicken Little moment where I'm like, Oh my
gosh, this guy is falling, you know?
And then it's like, hold on. I actually had an employer once
tell me, like, I see you freak out, but then immediately
afterwards you go into like planet fix it mode.
And at the time I was working with youth.
And so it was like, OK, like I had to really be on it.
But my initial reaction, my face, my face can't tell a lie.
And so my initial reaction was like, I'm freaking out.
What? You're saying?
Yeah, I'm like, I'm freaking out.
And then I'm like, OK, let's let's get to it.
And so that's kind of what you've been doing too with just
life happening is you're like, all right, this is this is
happening and figuring out next steps for you.
Well, I, my wife's been in the military for so for eight years.
So I've just kind of like embraced the, the changes just
constantly because it's like she has a military training.
We have to go here. She got into PA school.
So it's like, I think what I've learned is literally, it's not
uncomfortable because you're bad at it.
It's uncomfortable because it's brand new and you have never
experienced this before. So it's like giving yourself
that grace to figure it out and you will figure it out.
Is is the right mindset. I think I've taken on that I
really love. Yeah, I remember being very
nervous to deliver my daughter and someone was like, oh, people
are having babies all over the world all the time.
And I was like, yes, but this is my first time.
I'm like, this is a, this is a big deal for me, you know.
And so just because I think that other people are doing things
like we all have different life experiences that we're bringing
to the table and each one of us has a totally different story
that we're telling and that we're living.
And then putting all of those things together and having this
underlying thing of ADHD there, that just makes things extra,
extra fun and spicy. I think it can.
Be well, I can't imagine like being an aged year, being
pregnant and then running down the rabbit hole of a million
different scenarios of what could happen.
And so then it makes it even that more intense.
Then you're just like, well, I'm up.
I'm going to be a bystander when my wife delivers.
So I'm just like have my birthing plan.
My wife's like make sure the epidural happens sooner than
later and we'll be good because she's AER physician.
So she's just seen everything and she's like either way, she's
got to come out C-section wise or the natural way, like she's
coming either way. Yeah.
By the way, Mitchell, you're not going to be a bystander.
You're a very valuable part of the team.
I would not have made it through that experience if it wasn't for
my husband. So you're a very vital part of
that team. Yeah, I've gone through the
feelings of just being like, I think it's more of like watching
somebody go through something. I don't want to say childbirths
traumatic, but it is kind of like it's a big event and it's
like it's a very high stakes. So I think that's the biggest
thing. And it's like I have to sit here
and support my wife and make sure she's comfortable.
I've started to realize that the role of dad in the first like
probably years, literally to take care of the mom and the mom
takes care of the baby and then you kind of hand off.
She hands the baby off to you. When you can, yeah.
You posted something recently that I absolutely loved.
And I was like, oh, I want to talk about this because, and I
think this is really true too. When anyone's going through any
kind of like life transition or hardship, especially with with
someone else and like the listeners of the show could be
going through, you know, some debt elimination journey and
getting their finances in order. But when you're doing it with
someone else is the 2 of you together are 100%.
But you're not always 5050. So sometimes, sometimes you're
bringing 90% and your, and your partners bring in 10% and
sometimes those, you know, ratios work out, but together
you're 100% A-Team. I loved, I love that
perspective. And I also, I think it's so
important, especially if you're the person living with ADHD or
you're living with someone that struggles with ADHD, that and
especially money, money stuff, because we know that that could
be, that could be a whole other base in itself.
But I love, I love what you said about that.
That was really cool. Yeah, and I've, I've heard that
from a bunch of people. The the things are not a 5050
thing. And it's like, no, what?
There's always like you're going to carry your partner, sometimes
they're going to carry you. And it's like perfect example, I
carried my wife for 2 1/2 years while she went to pace PA school
financially. Like I had a job.
I had him in like I may not like the job, but it's like I have to
do it because the family goal is to get her through PA school
because it's going to be amazing at the end.
And funny enough, I got laid off from my job about 3 weeks ago
and now she's she came to me and she's like, it's your turn.
Like you carried me through PA school and look at how amazing
her life is. It's like you go do your
entrepreneurial stuff and just grind on it.
Yeah, yeah. That's awesome.
That's awesome, because that's kind of also unleashed another
aspect of your story about also freed you up so that you could
focus in on this new thing. Can you talk a little bit more
about that? Yeah, so I run or I Co founded a
board game called Hexa and it's it's basically a modern
alternative to chess where it takes 10 minutes to play and it
takes about two minutes to learn.
And which is why I think your daughter might do really well at
learning this game. Yeah.
Yeah, it's we started Hexa about 3 1/2 years ago.
Funny enough, like I've doing the ADHD thing where you have
like 3 different businesses. I had a huge a disc golf YouTube
channel. I had a chess YouTube channel.
But the common denominator was my business partner that I was
doing it with. So him and I were have been
professional disc golfers for the last.
We're not just we're not pros anymore because we just Adobe
voted most of our time to the business.
Yeah, but I'd been doing YouTube stuff with him and I was having
a meeting with him and then out of nowhere he goes.
I've been working on this board came for a year and a half, and
I was still in California. He's in Minnesota.
So it's like I basically started vibrating like and laughing so
hard because after he told me about it, I was like, OK, you,
you started a board game. Just get, let me, let me get
this straight because I, yeah, because I identified it and I
like aligned with it so strongly because that's why I like my
soul. I would say laughed about it
because it was like, yeah. So I looked and I go, we're not
doing any other businesses. This is the one we're going all
in on. And it's, I think it's hard to
do that as an 80s deers. Like I'm going all in on this
one thing. And it's because our brains have
ran every scenario of like where the business hasn't worked out
or like the grass is always greener somewhere else.
So it's like, OK, this missing mission is huge.
It's bigger than anything. And I think that's kind of
what's kept me on the just hyper focus on this one business is
because of the people we're going to help with the game or
like just that type of stuff. I think having a huge mission is
the most important thing as an ADHD or to anything like
financially this wise, any of this stuff is like if you have
a, if your mission's bigger than anything, it's gonna keep you
locked in. It's gonna keep the dopamine
rolling. It's also gonna like keep like
the for some reason, 80s years have like the justice like gene
where like if there's any injustice in the world, we like.
Yeah. So I took it personally and be
like, chess is kind of very judgmental and very
intellectually like judgmental. And we're like, let's make a
game, make this game more fun and approachable, but still get
to use your brain. Yeah, yeah, I think, yes, I hear
you on that, the judgement gene thing.
I think my my therapist said this to me recently and I it
just kind of blew my mind. And I think the way she said it
was maybe it's because you've been othered so much in your
life that it's like we are it's a lot easier to fight or
advocate for other people than it is for ourselves.
And I was like, man, that is just like mind blowing to me.
But I want to go like the game, the game.
So I think this is really cool. And like what you said to the
mission, like that will help you when things get tough, but it'll
also help you celebrate and know when those milestones have come
and stuff. And I think that's really,
really important, especially for ADHD.
Mines to, like you said, the dopamine we need that the state
being able to stay focused and so the the mission, it's more
than a board game. Like you said, it's absolutely
more than a board game. And I think one thing that's
really helpful for like our family too, it's for us like
debt free wasn't the wasn't the journey.
That was the goal, but that wasn't the the end prize.
It was because we we became debt free before my daughter was
born. And then it's allowed us to show
up differently for each other, but it's also allowed us to like
create memories. And I think that's the other
thing that's really cool too, about games in general, but this
game specifically because it it includes a lot of people that
might not necessarily feel encouraged to, like you said,
play chess or feel like, OK, I could do that.
Like my daughter's seven and you're like, this will be great
for her to learn. But then I could also be playing
with my 70 year old dad. Yeah, that's, that's perfect
because that's what we want. It's like we love the the saying
like it's perfect for a six year old, but you can teach it to
your 9 year old grandma and she'll yeah, kick your butt
probably, yeah, but it's yeah, I think I've identified like a sub
like niche with the 8 HD years of why Hexo is a perfect game.
It's short, it's fast, but it's also, I don't know, you're not
being judged for using your intelligence.
It's you're kind of flexing it versus being judged for it with
Hexa, because with chess, you're absolutely being judged on like
I made this wrong move and it's like a whoa, there's this
correct 3-4 moves you could have made before it.
And you're right, kind of being judged on like procedurally how
you played the game versus like the game's only 10 minutes.
It's like, let's just run it back and basically play again
and then like make small changes and stuff.
And that's, that's a big thing too, is the emotional loop.
I've noticed with, with Hex chess has a really long
emotional loop. Like you basically get burnt
out. You're building up all this
emotional energy and then you release the energy and you
basically just feel like you went through the general rush,
like, but it takes 45 minutes with Hexa, it's short feedback
loops. And I think that's what's huge
for ADHD years too, is like, you want the instant, like you make
a decision. You instantly know, like if it
was like what changes you need to make in the future.
And it's and then because the games are 10 minutes, you
literally play. If you lose, who cares?
You stay with your loss for just like 2 minutes.
It's like, Oh, let's play again. And then you you're right back
into it. So that's another like fun side
effect that we've not side effect, but like benefit of
effects that I've found is it's teaching kids to actually sit
with losing and failure, but then actually quickly just try
again and keep going. I think that's for anybody,
honestly, because it's like some age, the aged years, we think
everything is just the end the world, everything's just
permanent. Yes, this is going to make or
break everything of my existence.
And it's like, no, you can. I think that's, that's the thing
too, that I'm realizing once I lost my job, it was like, huh,
I'm not going to die. Yeah.
Like things aren't going to happen to me right now.
Like I'm thinking of stuff that's going to happen to me
like in a year and a half if I don't have any like a job or a
business or. Yeah, absolutely we do, we do
kind of get in the the skies falling kind of mentality where
we're like this is this is the end.
And I I definitely, I definitely have found myself in in certain
moments like that. And it's like, OK, wait a
second. Because our brains are trying to
protect ourselves from whatever that is like could be coming.
And it's not always bad. And I think you started to hint
at that because even though losing, losing your job in the
moment was like this, this sucks, this sucks, but it has it
has opened up this whole other part of you that you hadn't been
able to go down because you had been occupied with, with your
work. Well, The funny thing is, like
I'm the CMO of of Hex, and everybody that works for Hex is
like, wow, dude, you're coming up with a lot of amazing ideas.
It's like, yes, because my brain can fully function and fully
focus on this one thing I'm truly passionate about, which
hyper focus is kind of an understatement for Hexa for me,
yeah. I think it's important that we
all do something that we're passionate about.
I mean, my hyper focus has been on budgeting and debt
elimination. So I.
How long is something considered a hyper focus till it's a
passion or like because finance is probably you're probably
passionate about it your whole life and it's just like now you
actually get to like pursue it, which is awesome.
Yeah, that's a really good question.
I wonder if there's like a clinical definition of that or
if it's just something we can just.
That's what I've been thinking about for so long because disc
golf started for me in 2019 and I'm still, I love it.
But I was just like, is this a passion or is this a hyper focus
and just kind of coming up with a distinction?
And I'm like, in my head, it's like if it lasted longer than a
year that I think it's actually something and something that I
do on a regular basis. I think it's something I
actually enjoy. Yeah, Yeah.
I don't know. That's a really good question.
I don't know if I've ever thought about that.
I'm 26 years in so maybe it's a passion.
You're also three decades, so it's like, I think make it to
say that you actually enjoy it. It's not like a movie you watch.
You end up research everything and then a week later you bought
all the merch from the movie and then now it's just sitting in
your basement. Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I've been maybe not movie merch, but I'm definitely
guilty of like, let's get all the things.
Now we have a, a new, a new framework.
I will say about when it comes to trying new things, borrow,
yeah, borrow, borrow the equipment first from someone
else to see if you're actually going to stick with it, you
know, like hobbies and stuff or just like, I mean, even the
podcast, I did not buy a prime time mic.
I was like, all right, we're going to go with this.
Well, you got the Yeti blue mic, which is yeah, earn something
bucks. So it's like you didn't get the
snowball, so you have a little bit of an upgrade, yeah.
Hey, it gets the job done and I like.
I like the it's a it's got I'm so I have an audio engineer by
trade like another thing I. Like not know that about you.
So what's cool about that mic is you can actually switch the
polarity pattern of how it picks up sound.
So the cardioid pattern is like this.
So it's gonna pick up anything that's like with in front of
you. So that's how just random
knowledge I have that I don't really use anymore.
Hey, you know what? Because you're gonna be starting
a podcast that's really valuable information because I have not
shared this publicly before, but I would say the first few months
of my podcast I was talking to the wrong side of the mic
because I didn't know what the those things were and I.
Was like, Oh my gosh. So I used to, I used to work in
corporate America where I'd like I'd created a program where
supporting house would record support or tutorials.
I would get so many people that would talk to the back of the
mic and have to explain to them like why the recording was
messed up. They had no idea of like fixing
it. So I I feel that.
Yeah, I was like, well, it's a good thing I'm better at, you
know, personal finance than I am at that part.
Obviously I learned my lesson. But I think that's another thing
too about all this is we're not gonna be perfect starting out
anything new. And we just, we had to stumble
and fall and learn, just like you're gonna be teaching a kiddo
to walk at some point soon. And it just happens.
We just get up and we have to keep moving forward and having
the right people in our corner to support us and guide us and
encourage us. And that's one of the things
that I, I appreciate most about you, Mitchell, and just being
able to connect on threads was that you're just always a
champion for other people and want to see other people
succeed. And that's been, that's been
really cool to be a part of that journey with you.
I appreciate that because that thing that like I've talked to a
bunch of like people that are selling digital products and
stuff, their thing was is like, dude, you need to change how
you're talking on threads to find your buyers.
And I'm like, I did that for like a week and I was like, I
can't do this. This isn't me.
This isn't who I am. Like I love supporting other
people, encouraging them, being a cheer.
Leader And it's like, yeah, because it's like, I don't care.
Like it's not worth sacrificing who I am to sell a product.
And it's like I'm playing the long, long game of building like
people that are just supporting people and by default they might
feel obligated to support me back.
I mean, it made me want to go, wait, what are you?
What are you doing? Tell me more.
I want to know more, you know? And then with the game, with
Hexa, I was like. Perfect.
So we have a big saying of hexes.
This is Steve Jobs scope. Don't let perfect get and get
and what is it? I gotta think of it.
It's don't let perfect get in the way of great.
So if something's, I think 80% as good as you could do it,
release it, put it out in the world because that 20% is the
only the 20%. You're only gonna know about
that 20%. And it's just like, it's not
gonna make the difference, honestly.
Yeah, C's get degrees. C's become entrepreneurs.
I think it's the what I'm finding from watching Instagram
and stuff. I have been AB plus student my
entire life. Like I have tried so hard.
A minus, like I'll get them here and there, but B plus average
all the time. So I was like, all right, I'm
just gonna turn this into B positive.
B pluses are great. It's still you're what, 88
percent, 85%? It's like that range.
Like that's the range that I I think I was more of AC student
just because I couldn't pay attention in class.
I mean, I've read so many history books that I remember
nothing from. I am notorious for reading
something and then getting lost in a thought and having to come
back and go. I just read an entire page, but
I don't know. What it says, I hate to break a
team, but it's every ADHD year, honestly.
So I realized this that I did that and I just started
listening to audiobooks and I was like, yeah, this works way
better because maybe something auditorily my brain kind of
connects thoughts better than like just reading the first line
and then getting stuck in the first line and then going down
the rabbit hole of like, especially history be like,
wonder what times we're like. Then I wonder what shoes they
wore back then. I wonder, right?
It's. Just all that stuff that your
brain goes to. Yes, yes.
And then I mean, I think if you have any interest in it too,
then it becomes like it becomes a little bit easier.
But that's one thing I've learned about myself is I'm
like, all right, if I'm, if I'm not into it, it doesn't matter
how much time, energy, like focus, I can force myself.
It's not gonna happen. And so that's why I try super
hard, especially, like, with this show and like the things
that I teach them, like, let's make them small and not boring
because our brains will tune out.
Yeah. So I was about to ask about
being financially organized. It's help you pursue your dream.
How being financially like together has helped me pursue my
dreams. Yeah.
I think the biggest thing is like looking at her finances and
being like, if you wanted to be a stay home dad, you could if
you want to do that. It's just my wife giving me the
option to like take the time now to actually go pursue what I've
wanted to for the last like 10 years or at least try.
Yeah, because she's looking at it.
She's like, I'm bringing in this much money.
Like she's the, she's the very like build a budget type person.
And I'm very head in the clouds. So I think I married the right
person because she's made me better financially just because
she'll make lists and stuff and like she's very like type a
analytical and logical. I'm very like head in the
clouds, let's go do this. But she's got some of that too.
But it's good to she's, it's good to have somebody that keeps
me grounded and really like we'll say we can actually do
this versus like keep talking about doing it, but no, we can
actually do this. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Being on the same page, head in the same direction together.
Yeah, it's like the Ying and Yang, but it's and it all comes
down to what you're goal is as a family too.
It's like I had AI came up with a really funny analogy about how
from a business perspective, the family is the business, the wife
is the owner ownership, the husband is the CEO, like the
day-to-day operations. Like I wrote a really long
thought about it. It was just like, this is
hilarious because I've been reading business books for so
long. And then it I made, I made that
connection where it's like I sent it to my wife and she goes,
I don't understand this, but I'm like, no, this is this is the
greatest business you can have is your family.
Yeah, yeah, I feel like for for our family, like, yeah, this is
this is the number one, this is our first ministry.
This is this is the core of who we are.
And then everything else after that falls into place.
But having those priorities. And like you're talking about
staying focused on one thing. Like for us to create the
opportunities to make memories together, to have time together
to build relationships with each other.
And then after that build relationships and create
memories and do things with others outside of our home.
But I think that has been really helpful is to get crystal clear
on that part, because then decision making, especially with
ADHD, decision making becomes a little bit easier after that
because it's already decided and you just run it through that,
run it through that test. Does it?
And that's, that's important too with business too.
And like having your values, your principles and your mission
statement, because it's like, if the stuff that you're doing
doesn't align with any of that, then you don't want it.
Then there's no business doing it.
Because it's like, because when if you get there and you have
success with the stuff that you're doing that doesn't align
with who you actually are, you're going to be vastly
unhappy in like the future. Yeah, That's why like running it
through that lens is basically like it can be as simple as what
friends your kids have or like any of that stuff.
It's like if like for example, if you like going to church, do
your, do you want to hang out with other people that go to
church? It's just kind of it's, it's
kind of like that. It's because I think to getting
around other people that have the same values as you is so
important because you can lean on each other and you can talk
about your experiences and they're not going to judge you.
They'll actually increase your experiences and stuff because
it's like, yeah, I went through this and it's like now my wife
and I are stronger than ever. And then it just helps people
relate to you a little bit easier.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think in that for for my
husband and I like in our you know, journey to debt freedom
like that was a really important part for us is to like be this
unified front and together and keep keep the eye on the prize.
That's saying that we just kept using with each other.
Eye on the prize. I feel that so much because like
going through being a spouse or something in PA school is that
keep your eye on the prize. It's literally like got me
through so many times. It's like my brother actually
just went through the same thing I did.
So it's like him and I can bond on that.
But it's just like anyone that works a job they don't like or
they're just doing something that they don't like.
And it's like, keep your eyes on the prize because at the end of
the light of the tunnel is gonna be so rewarding and so, so
amazing. Yeah, yeah, I'd love to.
I'd love to know, is there, especially through that whole
process when your wife was in school, was there a financial
habit that you guys put into place that helped help you get
to where you are now and be able to to be financially set up for
this, this next stage of your life together?
I think biggest thing was like before PA school because she had
thought about going to PA school for so long, but the financial
stuff didn't line up. And then through the military,
like we found out the military could pay for schooling.
So we're like, all right, let's go do this.
Like she literally got in and then we literally sold her house
and was like, OK, we're doing this.
So it's I think the biggest thing is just making sure things
are doable and they're actually like easy to understand and, and
like trying to think what else. I think biggest thing too is
looking at your finances every single day because then you know
where you are from a day-to-day perspective.
And like, because what would happen is like we'd have to pay
for rent and like California rent was like 3600 bucks and it
was just like, OK, I only making like 5 grand.
So it's like she's going to PA school.
So it's kind of figuring out. I think the hardest thing
usually is like first month when you when a big financial change
happens, like you move somewhere or something and figuring out
you at that point you have no idea how much you're going to
spend a month. So it's kind of looking at your
finances post mortem in the second month and being like, OK,
how much realistically without all the moving costs, all the
big kind of changes, like thing we didn't realize is like buying
condiments for your your house that you usually have.
Like that stuff adds up and it's just like, all right,
realistically, how much is our second month gonna cost us?
Like what do we need to budget? Like do we need a meal prep?
Like kind of do all the cost saving stuff to kind of figure
out where before you stabilize financially every.
Month, Yeah, yeah, that's a good one.
I always, I always encourage people if they're gonna
especially make a big, you know, financial life, life transition
or life choice, especially if it's one that they have control
over, is to make a kind of like a faux budget, like what is
your, what's this budget going to look like if you make this
decision? Oh man, my what that's another
thing that we did too is like, but what I would recommend to
people is over budget like so we were doing something like when
we bought our next house, we built their houses.
We did like overall budget of like this is how much utility
it's going to cost. This is everything and it's like
don't round down, round up because I think that's the
biggest mistake is like, oh, it's only gonna cost is this and
it's like, no, I'll just round up for wiggle room because
something is going to come up where like you're not going to
get quoted for insurance and it's gonna be more than you
expected or your house bill is gonna be more expensive.
Like there's intro like. I feel like it's like the
ultimate DIY project. You know how if you ever try to
like go on like Home Depot or something and they're like, oh,
how much, you know, here's the square footage.
And then they're like, do you want to include the overage in
there? You know, because you can only
measure one or measure twice cut once, you know, And so it's
like, all right, and I really, something goes wrong and you
need more 2 by fours. It's kind of the same, same
philosophy. And like, that's, that's a
really good point. I love that you talked about the
condiments because that's such a random thing, but the first?
Time you fill your fridge up in your pants.
You're like, there's stuff in there that I like.
We got cans of soup that you don't think about because
they're always in there. Yeah.
Like your salt and pepper, all your, like, salt shakers and
stuff. And it's like, that stuff costs
money. And then just filling your
fridge up for the first time is the most underestimated thing.
I think when people will either like move, Yeah, I'm not going
to take. Such a valid point.
Bottle with me and any of that stuff, it's it just doesn't make
sense. I moved out of my parents house
so I'd moved into our current house and we've been here 20
years so I'm like I don't like moving and now it because I
don't want to fill my fridge again.
My wife says that the next time she moves is the next worst day
of her life. Yeah, I mean, I mean, moving,
moving can be a joyful experience.
But like, it gets, it does. You're right, it gets expensive
and like weird stuff comes up. I think the condiment thing that
that's gonna make me chuckle for a few days.
Because it's like and especially having HD, you buy like 3
ketchup bottles because you didn't know you had one in your
fridge. Oh my gosh, if you knew how much
mustard we have in our our house it would be embarrassing.
Like Oh my gosh, we have way more mustard than one family
should have. But that's the fun part of HD.
Sometimes it's like this, the dumb stuff that your brain does
and you just like, I think, I think that's the thing I've
learned is just like my brain's funny sometimes.
And it's like you either laugh at her, you just shame yourself
and then it just so it becomes unhealthy.
Yeah, I mean, yeah, absolutely. I feel like for myself, I, I did
at first I was like, Oh my gosh, you know, I went through that
whole process of like mourning who I could have been and that
kind of stuff. And now I'm like, no, this is
just fun. I'm I enjoy being around myself
now even more than I did before, because now I feel like there's
a reason why I am. People used to call me quirky.
I was like, I didn't know if I was a compliment or not.
But now I'm like, no, I'm not boring.
I'm fun to be around and you know, yes I do.
I do weird things like leave an empty toilet paper roll out so I
don't forget to refill the toilet paper.
My wife hates when I like, she doesn't understand.
She's like, why do you leave the milk jug in the fridge when
there's this much milk? It's like, or why do you leave
like the cereal box? And there's like this much like,
no, there's not even a crumb for a mouse to eat.
And like, so next time. But The funny thing is, is like,
you're gonna come back and you like look at the milk and you
put it back in the fridge. Then you forget about it and
it's like, it's a vicious cycle. Well, I'm definitely an out of
sight, out of mind kind of person.
So like even my budget has like more categories than probably
most people because if I don't have it on there, I'll forget
for that one time a year or whatever.
So I leave a lot of stuff on there.
But you know, some people, if that's overwhelming for them,
I'm like, OK, take that off. Like let's consolidate those.
But it's kind of figuring out what works for you, right?
What's your what's your type of your type of ADHD then and
figure out what works for you and.
Let's just build stuff like don't be ashamed of how your
brain works, just work within the reality that you have like.
Yeah. For me, I need to start making
lists about doing chores and stuff because then it's like
I'll remember to do it or I'll remember something or set alarms
or it's just like do whatever works for your brain and don't
be ashamed that your brain works that way.
Because the alternative is is you hate how your brain works
and the chores don't get done at the same time.
You might as well either have a good attitude about your brain
and not get the chores done and then eventually get the chores
done, or you can sit and spiral. Yeah, and the spiral.
It could be a really ugly place to be.
I will open my dishwasher now so in case like I'll hit my shin on
it so if I walk past it then I'll end up emptying it.
I think for me like actually realizing how long something
actually take takes actually has helped me so much.
Like like the dishwasher, like oh, it only takes 5 minutes, I
can do 5 minutes. Yes, man, time blindness.
That's my nemesis. Timeline is sucks and object
permanence is a big thing for me too.
Like out of sight, out of mind. Like if.
Yeah, I remember hearing that saying a lot growing up.
And I was like, I don't understand.
Like, isn't that how everyone is?
And now, now with my diagnosis and like, learning that that was
part of how my brain operated, I was like, well, yeah, of course.
Like that's why I leave the toilet paper roll out.
I will forget. And that whole saying?
My wife if it's important. You'll.
Remember all so it'll, it'll, but I go, no, I need to leave it
out because it's like, do you want me to refill it or not?
It's yes, man, but thankfully she's not like she's not like
everything has to be spotless. It's like just tidy it up.
I just I don't. I just wanted to look a little
organized. Yes.
I'm thankful for that. Yeah, that's good.
That's so good that you have someone that's encouraging and
supporting of you and your ADHD, because I think that's really
important. We all.
I mean, it doesn't, it comes, it doesn't come with it does come
with some like she's my wife is very to the point, very like,
not blunt, but very direct. Like just make a list and figure
it out. Like OK, I'll figure it out.
Yeah. And it's not like, it's not like
she's like saying it's a bad thing.
It's more like, here, do you need help figuring it out?
Or like, here, just make a list. This is what works for me.
Like, yeah, like I had her. I think it's funny.
Like for me, I've had her show me how to clean, how she cleans
and stuff. And that's the biggest thing
because then you get the whole procedural thing of where to
start. Because starting is, I think,
the hardest thing for anyone. They just like there's all this
laundry, like where do I start? So I've actually come up with
the quirky systems and frameworks for me.
So with vacuuming, I'll turn all the lights off in the house and
my vacuum has a light on it. So then I won't get over
stimulated at all. All I have to do is vacuum the
crumbs up there in the light shade, like the actual light
beam. Interesting.
It's like a game. So I'm literally, I've always
heard of like gamifying chores, but it's like I always thought
like, I don't need that. And then I gamified it.
I'm like, this is fun. I got the whole kitchen vacuum.
Cool the carpet lines, too. Yeah.
Try to get the carpet lines just right.
Man, like do stuff for laundry too.
Like I'll get a huge bin and it's like I don't put pressure
on myself to fold all the clothes and put everything away.
It's like just get as far as you can, then go do another chore
for 15 minutes and come back and just keep working at it.
So it's like, I mean, everything is a work in progress at that
point, but things do. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I love it. So as we as we wrap up today, I
have two more, two more questions for you. 1 is what
encouragement do you have for someone that is dealing with
ADHD right now that kind of feels maybe stuck on the
financial side or on the professional side.
What would be your encouragement to because you are like the
ultimate encourager? I feel like right now like I'm
just such a fan and it's been, you've been very encouraging to
me. But anybody that's listening
that just kind of feels stuck. Maybe they have a dream that
they're not able to take action on.
What would your encouragement be for them?
I. Think the biggest thing is just
giving yourself grace that you'll figure it out because I
think half the time we're so hard on ourselves to basically
like we have to figure out now it has to be now.
And it's like give yourself the space and grace to really like
yourself the room to try and just keep working at a little by
little. Because I think what happens is
a lot of us, we hit one set back and be like, OK, the world's
collapsing and stuff. It's like, no, it's just dust
yourself off, keep going. Like it's gonna happen.
If you just keep doing it and focusing on it consistently,
it's gonna happen eventually. It's not a matter of how.
It's a matter of when it's gonna happen.
Yeah, Like, you know, the thing I've heard I've learned too is
you're like when changes happen and stuff and like things that
don't go your way, you're allowed to take the time to
settle into the new version of you and actually like settle
into life. Like because we think because
we've ran every scenario in our head of like what this new me is
going to look like. And it's like, it's usually not
what you're envisioning. So it's like you don't have to
figure it out right now. Like I like I ran into this
whole scenario when I moved back in California to transition back
into living where I grew up and stuff was like, I always had
this like expectation. I needed to figure it out.
I like wanted it to be like what it was before I left.
It's like, no. So I actually got to the point
where I went back on ADHD meds because I was just like
spiraling so much and in my head.
And it's like, so that's the thing too.
Like if you need to go on meds again just to get you through a
tough period in time, you don't always have to be on meds, but
medication works for some people.
And I'm kind of the off and on like hybrid or sometimes they
need it, sometimes they don't. But it's like it's just kind of
a tune up that you need to like do to get you through this
period of life. Honestly.
Yeah, just stick with it. Get around other people that
honestly support your vision more than you do and believe in
your vision more than you do. And that's what my wife does.
I believe in like it makes things.
Don't be afraid to cut out people that are making you feel
bad about yourself. That that's biggest one I've had
to learn too is like maybe we spiral and marry.
We shame ourselves more because there's a person in our life
that makes us feel bad for having the HD or how we operate.
It's like business is hard, life is hard.
I don't need these people around me to really make me feel bad
because I like who I am. That's so good.
I love what you said about
giving your time. You're giving yourself time to
settle in, to like that next version of yourself because it
does take time. And we're a different person
every time we hear something and we just have to take that in and
let it let it marinate, let it let it sit there.
I think that is so, so profound. That's a really.
Really quite a marriage too. I think that's why is the
marriage as well because like when you and your spouse got
married, you're not the same people.
You're literally this different person every week because you go
through experiences. But like it's actively choosing
to be together rather than having to stay together is what
I've learned is my wife wants me around.
She doesn't need me around. She probably does now, but I
mean like actively choosing each other is what I'm.
Getting yes, yeah. I think you can also apply that
to your finances because if you're trying to use the same
budget you used back when she first started Pennsylvania
school, totally different life, right?
So the one thing I've heard that I've always stuck with me about
finances. Yeah, your finances are
basically a huge scoreboard of what your priorities are.
Like yes. And I think that's why we get,
we guilt ourselves or shame ourselves about finances because
you look back and you're like, oh man, I could have like
invested this. It's, it's the, it's the regret,
I think. Yeah, absolutely, Absolutely.
I should be able to look at your finances and know what's
important to you in this moment in time.
Your finances in your calendar to the two biggest tells of what
you actually are prioritizing. Yeah, that's so good, Mitchell.
Oh my gosh. I feel like you and I could talk
for hours because this is this is this is some really good
stuff. We're at 49 minutes.
You want to make this an hour? I do have to go pick up my kiddo
from school here pretty soon. I got a couple things to do
before. Don't do the ADHD thing and say
you'll do it in a minute and then forget her so I will let
you go. I mean, I have timers
everywhere. I have like, you know, funny.
Things are. So my business partner's wife is
a therapist. Yeah.
So what's funny is, is like, she's my business partner.
I didn't realize he he had suspected that he had ADHD.
But then she goes, no, you definitely have ADHD because you
would have to have an alarm for every little thing.
So it's like, so him and I have been bonding over ADHD things,
which has been really fun. Yeah.
Well, it's nice to know like when you realize the things that
you've been using to like, you know, navigate life that other
people do them and you're like, OK, this isn't, this isn't weird
or like embarrassing. It's just it's a thing that we
do. I tie my shoes differently than
everyone else I know. Whatever.
We're all basically just living on this loading rock.
So it doesn't matter, honestly, it really doesn't matter.
It's just we, it's so we think things are so concrete and
perfect because I think, I think we've just been misunderstood
for so long that we just think there's a right way to do
everything, but there isn't. And it's literally like just if
your brain does, if you just like, for example, you tie your
shoes different than somebody else, all that matters is did
your shoes get tied? Yeah, I'm not going to trip.
Exactly. It's like it's literally about
the outcome. It's like, did you trip?
Did you tie your shoes? Yes.
No. So it's like yeah, that's really
all that matters. And that's a thing too.
It's like a lot of the times nobody really cares about the
like effort it took. It's all about the final result.
So like if you're just trudging through like the process, but
the final result is amazing. That's literally what people
care about is what they see instead of like.
That's why it's important to also show people like what your
process is and like you building stuff and like because, because
that's the stuff that nobody sees.
Because we're always, it's the day-to-day things of like, yeah,
you're almost undervaluing your experience because you're the
one going through it. Yeah, yeah.
And you're undervaluing. I think I realized that today
too is I undervalue some of the skills that are super easy for
me. Yeah, I know.
That's one of the biggest things I think I realized is like, Oh
my gosh, I am taken for granted that I have this personal
finance system that works really well for me.
And then I'm like, I can't keep this a secret because once I got
diagnosed and then realized how how challenging, you know, just
the day-to-day money management is for ADH years.
I was like, I need to share this with more people because I don't
want them to continue to silently struggle like I did,
even though I was taught how to do all the things degree in
economics, all the stuff. And then when you apply it to
real life, it's like, OK, this is this is different than.
Knowing all the the, the the art is really especially for AHD,
like I need to do some weird things to literally get myself
to remember stuff like, but like threads comes really easy to me
because I've just been, I've always realized I like writing,
but I actually built my own system to like be consistent and
stuff. But what I've found is when I
started building the system, creating the system, I realized
like the outcome was different than I would I expected like
every all this ADHD is like, oh, if I'm consistent, I'm going to
grow and stuff. And it's like, no, the actual
what happens when you're consistent is you actually find
your voice, you get confident who you are and you actually
like talking about your story and you actually there's value
in you talking about your story. And that's, yeah, that's what I
found. And that's why I encourage
people on threads is like, keep putting yourself out there, keep
listening to yourself talk. Yeah.
Telling you what your experience and then you'll start to
actually be comfortable with who you are and actually not devalue
who you are and what your experiences you've gone through
because they'll help other people.
And that's why I'm such a cheerleader for people and
social media, cuz you have the right to exist.
You don't have to earn your right to exist.
You don't have to output your way to existence.
That's what I've struggle with is like, if I'm not performing,
why do like, what value do I have?
And it's like no brain, you're being dumb.
Like just existing is helping people.
And it's like that's, that's huge.
Yeah, exactly. Share your story, find other
people, anybody that'll listen. I think that's that's really
that's really good. Did I send you my system?
Cuz I've been I just give it all for free just cuz I like I think
it helps 80 years so much but it's like I could probably make
money off of it. Yeah, I don't know if you have.
I will send it to you after because it's OK.
Oh, it'll, that's why I've hit. Give me one second.
Let me I've literally hit I think almost 200 days
consistently on threads. Dang, well I'm definitely not
that many days in, but yeah, I. Don't.
Yeah, I'm like, I'm literally. I do.
I do post on the weekends sometimes just because it is
kind of fun to get. I'm on 139 in a row but I post
like 8 to 9 times a day now. Wow, I know you're always one of
the top ones whenever I open up my app so.
I love that though because it's like.
This is I think I'm just a fan. I love I love your stuff.
And I think also I'll make sure to link that in the show notes
too, so that people can follow you on threads because I think.
We're actually launching the app version of our game soon.
Oh yes, send me more info about that because I'd love to share.
That we're doing. We're in the beta process right
now. We've kind of hit a little
bottleneck with like Apple letting us list our game on the
on the App Store. Once that goes through, then the
beta will go live. So we need people to offer
feedback to make our game better.
But then after the beta, we'll launch the game officially,
which will be really sweet. Cool, is it gonna be available
on Android? Yep, I have an Android phone so
I made sure it's gonna be available on both.
OK cool. I had a nightmare trying to get
my podcast listed on Apple Podcasts for a very long time
because I don't have. To I'm gonna have to.
So that's one thing. I've been doing music for so
long. I know how to distribute my
music, but the podcast side of things is I will need to figure
out how to do that. Well, ask me all Yeah, if you
get stuck, let me know. I learned child by fire, child
by fire. All right, so before we go, I
have one more question for you. I love it.
And this is this is a very important one, especially for
you personally. But we like to end the episodes
with our guests with a dad joke. So as a soon to be dad, the bar
is kind of high for you. I'm.
Just man, my wife has got very dark humor.
My father has very dark humor. And my father-in-law tells me
this dad joke all the time. He goes I want to die peacefully
in my sleep like my grandfather did.
Not screaming the tear like the passengers in his car.
Oh, my. OK.
His dad didn't die. It's funny.
Like it's just a funny saying of him going like, yeah, he's just
he's just he's one of my best friends.
So it's just funny. The stuff that he comes up with
her has kind of passed on to me. Yeah, yeah.
Hey, there you go. You've got and you're gonna be
able to collect your own book of dad jokes as you become a dad
soon. Can I give another dad joke cuz
he this is Have you ever had yes two first so.
A bonus, we've had mom jokes which are really fun because
they are like really bad. Actually.
We're terrible at telling jokes. I would.
Expect No, it's because you're too busy.
Yeah, like taking care of all the kids and stuff.
You don't have time. Come up jokes.
Like I feel like mom jokes are roasting husbands.
I think that's I think that's probably what mom jokes are.
My mom, my my wife is going to roast me so hard sometimes.
Yeah. So he always him and I always
think about buying like property and land.
He goes, you know what they say about land and they go what?
He goes stop making it. Long ago I was like, it's
terrible. It's terrible, man.
That's a dad thing to say right there.
That is actually a dad thing to say.
It's super funny, but it doesn't like, I don't know, He's, he's a
goofball I love. It I love it.
Well, Mitchell, thank you so much for being on the show.
I'm going to make sure to link the ways to get a hold of you
and to check out Hexa because that sounds like an amazing
opportunity for my audience to get plugged into something cool
to build some memories with their family.
So I appreciate be on the show. They're looking for an art
project. We have a free print and play
version, So if she wanted to like color it and stuff and cut
it out together and it's a good way and it's a good way for
families to try. I built it just because I like
wanted a nice freeway for people to play Hexa without having to
just kind of a nice little intro to Hexa so.
Cool. All right, well, we'll make sure
to get that link in there for you.
That was wonderful to appreciate you.
We're finally talking to you like this.
I think we're gonna have more fun on threads now because we've
actually sat down for an hour and had a conversation.
But it'll be fun. Thank you for tuning in to the
Debt Rebel show today. Ready to take your family
budgeting to the next level? Stop that paycheck to paycheck
grind and start living debt free.
Head over to my website debtrebelpodcast.com.
That's DEBTREDEL podcast.com to grab resources, tools and tips
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Debt Rebel.