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Welcome back to to real witches.
I'm here with my 

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out-of-this-world co-host Oak. 
I'm here with my delicious 

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Christmas Danny. 
Today, we're rounding out the 

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second episode of deity worship,
building on episode 2, with the 

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actions feelings and history 
this time. 

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So let's Dive In. 
All right, so before we get into

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any of the content, I wanted to,
just kind of give some 

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explanation around how we had 
organized, the previous episodes

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episode 2 and here in episode 3,
how we're going to be 

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approaching the topics we were 
playing with this a little bit 

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and I think it worked out. 
Well, the inspiration for how 

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were organizing the approach. 
These topics is coming directly 

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from this is like us. 
In stuff off of Deborah lip. 

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We love Deb. 
I assume we'll talk about Deb in

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future episodes, we're just 
going to call her death now, but

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Deborah lips book. 
That is 20 years old this year. 

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Congratulations Kudos called 
called the elements of ritual in

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this book. 
She approaches different topics 

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using the actual elements as 
inspiration. 

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So as we go through, Four 
sections will look at the four 

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elements air fire water and 
Earth as we approach. 

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Each of those topics, we will 
make a certain connection of 

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information for are going to go 
over the maybe book knowledge, 

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things that are very 
quote-unquote factual because 

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some of these things are going 
to not be factual or be 

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debatable but let's say the 
knowledge part of the 

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information then we're going to 
get into the fire aspects which 

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would be the To call pieces of 
behaviors that you could 

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associate with said topics. 
So in episode 2, for instance, 

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when we started with part one of
worshiping the gods, we talked 

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about the information of how to 
connect with gods and what gods 

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are and create definitions. 
And then we talked about how to 

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actually take action and how to 
make those connections, how to 

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create ritual, how to do things 
like raising and offerings and 

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ritual, things like that. 
So in this episode were actually

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going to pick up with water and 
Earth for me, the association of

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water is often the ancestral 
part. 

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So this is going to for us, 
where to use this as like a 

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history section. 
And then we're also going to 

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talk about how we personally 
feel about the topics of some of

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our personal experiences but 
more. 

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So on the And how those things 
impact our lives from the feels 

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side and then we're gonna get 
into what we call the Earth 

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section and this is how we 
integrate this information 

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overall on a daily basis. 
But also as we integrate this 

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information, what are the 
challenges that come up? 

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So we're going to if you will 
bring it down to earth. 

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So we're going to talk about 
maybe some like what are the 

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problematic aspects? 
Of God worship that we're going 

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to run into. 
So yeah. 

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So that's kind of the zoomed out
approach is we're going to go 

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through air fire, water and 
Earth in future topics as a way 

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of guiding the conversation. 
And in today's conversation, 

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we're going to specifically be 
focusing on the water and the 

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Earth's ready to get muddy love 
it as we should, you know, I 

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mean, let's get a little messy 
but before we get too far into 

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that, we also thought it'd be 
nice. 

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Just to give you guys kind of an
update on what's going on with 

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us. 
Also, in that same framework 

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from the air, the fire, the 
water, the Earth aspects. 

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So okay, tell me. 
What would you up to? 

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Which up to I heard that which 
up to? 

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Yeah like yeah I'm catching what
you're thrown a good pun. 

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You know, is really a magical 
thing when you said the air, the

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fire, the water, the Earth. 
I totally had that. 

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Chant Ranger my head, right? 
Anyways. 

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So I guess if I were to sum up 
some of the are associated 

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things that I've been up to. 
So we're going to talk about 

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like kind of like what classes 
or workshops or books. 

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Yesterday actually this would 
have been Saturday. 

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I don't know what is time. 
The 29th of April I took in 

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astrology class and I took it 
with a Local astrologer local to

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me and it was how to read your 
natal chart and so this was very

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much like a introductory begin 
our level class which made me 

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feel really smart, but I still 
absolutely pick some stuff up. 

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I shared that with you Danny. 
But the thing that I really 

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clicked for me is in my local 
area, I'm lucky enough to have a

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No somewhat thriving 
astrological community and this 

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person was a person of color. 
So I felt really good because I 

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often don't see that 
representation in media of yeah,

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people of color into astrology. 
Something like, you know, white 

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lady town so that was, that was 
really great and but then also 

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just being able to support local
astrologers. 

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I Previously had you know a 
patreon subscription with a 

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couple of astrologers that you 
know are not local to me and 

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I've stopped with those to try 
to, you know, keep it local and 

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so yeah. 
So I was really excited to be 

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able to connect with my local 
community. 

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So fun. 
And what about you? 

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What do you mean? 
Oh yes. 

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Okay, who put your reading? 
I need to know what you reading.

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Well, when you say reading, 
we're also we also mean / 

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listening, right? 
Yeah. 

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What happens? 
That those are the same thing. 

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Yeah, yeah. 
I was excited. 

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I finally started the it had 
maybe three months ago was 

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published. 
I'd have to look at the 

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publicity but it's a The newest 
book from Jason Mackey, main key

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and Estrella Taylor. 
And it's the the book title is 

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the modern witchcraft with the 
Greek gods, history, insights, 

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and magical practice. 
And yeah, I'm really excited 

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about this book. 
As we talked about in previous 

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episodes, my Patron Hestia is 
Greek. 

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And so this was what sparked my 
interest other than really 

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liking Jason's, right? 
Soil, I haven't read anything by

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Estrella something. 
I'm really interested to get 

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into her writing style, but I 
was really excited because I was

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able to find a bookstore that 
carried this books that I could 

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actually order from. 
So I always listen to things on 

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Audible, but I was happy to also
purchase the paperback cover. 

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I want to just give a shout out 
to Sandman bookstore. 

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It's in South Florida, but they 
have very fair prices and 

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They're very quick with 
deliveries. 

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So I was happy to finally be 
able to Source a independent 

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bookstore and family-owned. 
Yeah. 

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Yeah. 
They definitely focused or I 

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know it's it's what only five 
hours away from you. 

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So I don't think I'll be able to
go there in person, but I was 

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stalking their Instagram. 
And yeah, very happy to be able 

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to support that storm Sandman 
bookstore. 

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Nice. 
Nice. 

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What are you reading? 
What are you doing? 

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So, kind of still in this 
exploration right of like 

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Appalachian folk magic and what 
do I know? 

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And what's out there and why are
things very different in 

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different parts of Appalachia? 
And so I'm currently reading 

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doctoring, the devil notebooks 
of an Appalachian conjure Man by

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Jake Richards, so he is based 
out of Tennessee and Tennessee 

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Appalachian Folk. 
Magic is very different. 

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I'm finding than like Virginian 
Appalachian folk magic. 

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So just really, really enjoying 
like kind of the melding of 

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those two ideas. 
I think you and I had talked 

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before about how, like even just
things like sweeping someone's 

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feet like in one part of the 
country that might mean they 

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never get married but another 
part of that country it might be

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what you do when you get married
is to jump over the broom and 

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but there are still those 
aspects of where the broom is 

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still related to marriage. 
And so somehow like we haven't 

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lost that thread. 
Just the meanings of kind of 

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changed with. 
Time and place. 

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So that's kind of what I'm 
digging into. 

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Still is just trying to build 
out this idea of like where did 

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these things come from? 
Why do they exist? 

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Why have they changed from, 
maybe what I've known or what 

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other people have known and just
kind of digging into that. 

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So that sounds fascinating. 
I know you were struggling to 

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find books specifically on this 
topic because it there were a 

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few that came to mind. 
Was this one of those that you 

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had to kind of search? 
There was this one that you were

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familiar with. 
This was one. 

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I was able to find fairly easily
through like the bibliographies 

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of other books, which is kind of
how I've been piecing these 

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things together is like, I'll 
read a book and I'm like, wow, I

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really like this books and I 
look at the books, they 

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reference and then find their 
sources and then so that's kind 

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of how I'm kind of digging 
through it but it just it's 

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really interesting because I 
feel like we're all talking 

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about the same topic, right? 
Like Appalachian folk Magic. 

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But we're talking talking about 
it in segmented, parts of the 

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country and and segmented parts 
of where we're from. 

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And so, there really isn't like 
a body of work that like, digs 

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into all of these things at the 
same time or that kind of digs 

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into why it might have been this
way here and this way there, but

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there's still this common theme 
between these two beliefs. 

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So, it's been really interesting
to read like things that are 

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directly conflict with each 
other. 

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Like some will be like, well 
this directly came. 

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You know, Christian belief 
systems and then something else 

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would be like, know this came 
over from Africa and then 

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transferred into Christian 
belief systems through the, like

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assimilation of enslaved, people
to Christianity. 

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And so it's just interesting 
trying to like PCS things 

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together and figure out like 
okay, our is either one of these

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things, true one and then also 
like, where is the actual truth 

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because usually it's somewhere 
between those two points of view

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and sometimes A little bit of 
both. 

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Like both things could be sort 
of right but where are the facts

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in that? 
So that's so cool that awesome. 

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All right so if we were catching
up on fire topics in our which 

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up to that we need like a song. 
Like a did. 

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I don't know which app to. 
I don't know. 

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Okay yeah II like that. 
That was like Mario is that? 

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So I'm planning a trip to New 
Orleans, not next week but the 

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week after I have two weeks off 
from work which I'm thrilled 

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about, I don't like Endeavor. 
Yeah, I'm like it's been years 

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since I had two weeks off. 
That wasn't around the winter 

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holidays. 
So I'm taking a week to stay 

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Kate and get on my roof and seal
my roof areas. 

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But then The following weekend 
to go to New Orleans. 

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So I've been nerding out about 
all of the culinary options and 

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trying to explore. 
The runs have been there one 

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time before. 
But potentially my partner and I

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are going to have our wedding 
ceremony there if it all makes 

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sense or kind of going on a 
scouting trip. 

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So yeah, how about you would any
any items in the fire? 

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I am just living vicariously 
through you. 

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That's what I'm doing. 
I love that. 

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You're doing all of The 
traveling. 

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I'm very excited for all of the 
foods. 

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I'm going to live vicariously 
through you with all the things 

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I cannot eat. 
I'm definitely good on our on 

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our instead. 
I have to share the gumbo and 

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all of the cage that I can 
salivate with everyone else. 

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Please, thank you. 
Well, I eat a salad made by me. 

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That's not even going to be very
good. 

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So for me, we just opened my 
first homemade wine bottle and 

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drank it and I know. 
And I'd you know, I'm saying no 

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botulism, so killed it. 
It was that was the threshold, 

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it was amazing, how it was very 
impressive. 

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Honestly, I was like, okay with 
taking the botulism, you know, 

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if it meant supporting you and 
your craft, I know that. 

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It was, it was really lovely to 
open up. 

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Homemade wine that has been aged
a year to celebrate motive with 

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you. 
That was so beautiful, so 

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excited and then kind of, you 
know consistency. 

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It's a big theme of my life 
consistency in balance and so 

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kind of keeping with that same 
theme of like doing something 

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for each Sabbat. 
I'm going to continue making a 

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wine for each Sabbat. 
We're about to make a rose petal

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one. 
I'm very excited about this rose

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wine, but I'm also going to 
start Fragrant oils that go with

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each Sabbath so that I have like
a small vial of oil to kind of 

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go with that for ritualistic 
purposes and so just keeping 

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with that theme you know of like
building ritual literally 

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building it throughout the year.
So that's kind of what I've got 

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00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:26,600
going on actions why so that 
that I love that. 

227
00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:33,600
Let's transition to maybe the 
water aspects of which up to. 

228
00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:35,800
So tell me how you're feeling. 
What? 

229
00:14:35,900 --> 00:14:39,000
What's going on with you? 
But well, I haven't your life. 

230
00:14:39,500 --> 00:14:44,900
I had a surprise party for my 
partner and it was a surprise 

231
00:14:44,900 --> 00:14:49,100
housewarming party, which was 
the best gift ever because he 

232
00:14:49,100 --> 00:14:52,900
didn't have to do any of the 
preparation which was really 

233
00:14:52,900 --> 00:14:56,500
probably his favorite gift the 
whole part, but it was the first

234
00:14:56,500 --> 00:15:00,300
time, you know, since it 
pandemic that I've had like been

235
00:15:00,300 --> 00:15:04,700
indoors around, a lot of people 
I've been, you know, I have a 

236
00:15:04,700 --> 00:15:10,800
healthcare background. 
So I've been super safe in all 

237
00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:12,200
aspects. 
And so this was the first time 

238
00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:16,900
that I would say that I was 
taking risky actions, having 20 

239
00:15:16,900 --> 00:15:20,500
people in my house although I 
know that the risk is less now 

240
00:15:20,500 --> 00:15:27,300
but it's still very much a risk 
and you know, I got sick in for 

241
00:15:27,300 --> 00:15:30,700
it so I paid the price but it 
was super appropriate because 

242
00:15:30,700 --> 00:15:34,700
we're having it slip season. 
And if you're you know I think 

243
00:15:35,500 --> 00:15:39,100
Probably being on the couch sick
was probably more productive 

244
00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:41,100
than being at work during 
Eclipse season. 

245
00:15:41,100 --> 00:15:45,800
I think that was actually a 
blessing, you're like, cause and

246
00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:48,700
effect. 
However, the effects were in my 

247
00:15:48,700 --> 00:15:51,000
favor sort of. 
So yes. 

248
00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:55,000
Yes, I'm glad to not have the 
challenge of work during Eclipse

249
00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:59,500
season but yeah, how are you 
feeling? 

250
00:15:59,700 --> 00:16:02,800
You've been busy. 
Oh my gosh. 

251
00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:05,900
Listen yeah I think 
professionally Right now, I 

252
00:16:05,900 --> 00:16:08,500
always hit this like stride. 
It's been like a constant thing 

253
00:16:08,500 --> 00:16:09,800
in my life. 
Probably for the past. 

254
00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:13,100
Like five years. 
We're like March to August is a 

255
00:16:13,100 --> 00:16:16,000
freaking train wreck. 
I don't know, I don't know what 

256
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:17,600
everybody's doing march to 
August. 

257
00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:19,800
I guess it's like start a fiscal
year, I don't know. 

258
00:16:20,100 --> 00:16:23,400
Everybody loses their absolute 
mind from March until August, 

259
00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:26,500
and then in August, everyone is 
suddenly like comes to Clarity 

260
00:16:26,500 --> 00:16:29,100
and it's like, wow, this is not 
a sustainable level of energy 

261
00:16:29,100 --> 00:16:31,000
that we're putting out. 
We should probably like get it 

262
00:16:31,008 --> 00:16:34,800
together before the holidays. 
And so pretty much from now, to 

263
00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:37,800
all August is just going to be 
crazy for me, work-wise. 

264
00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:42,800
It's also like height of sports 
season with the kids. 

265
00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:46,200
So just just trying to like hang
on, you know. 

266
00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:49,900
I mean just trying to you're 
doing on the August, you're 

267
00:16:49,900 --> 00:16:52,800
doing this damn thing, I'm so 
impressed. 

268
00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:57,100
Yes II that's really interesting
and I and it's always been that 

269
00:16:57,100 --> 00:16:57,700
way. 
Huh? 

270
00:16:57,700 --> 00:16:59,800
For like the last few like the 
past five years? 

271
00:17:00,100 --> 00:17:02,700
Yeah. 
Like a recent hits and it's like

272
00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:05,900
Just all what is wrong with 
these people? 

273
00:17:05,900 --> 00:17:09,800
Their energies are just crazy. 
I say that as a cancer directly 

274
00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:13,300
in the middle of this time. 
Yeah, I don't know, I don't 

275
00:17:13,300 --> 00:17:15,300
know. 
Man, this all over the place, 

276
00:17:15,300 --> 00:17:17,500
everybody, if you casually 
personally. 

277
00:17:18,099 --> 00:17:21,700
Yeah, oh yeah, I always told 
people, I always tell people I'm

278
00:17:21,700 --> 00:17:25,099
like, March 2, march to August. 
It's really like July once I hit

279
00:17:25,099 --> 00:17:29,900
August 1st, Life starts to get 
back in line, but I always tell 

280
00:17:29,900 --> 00:17:32,900
people March to July, just don't
don't count on doing anything. 

281
00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:34,600
Thing extra don't play in 
nothing. 

282
00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:37,300
It's going to get ruined. 
Just we're just, we're just 

283
00:17:37,300 --> 00:17:39,000
keeping the wheels going every 
day. 

284
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:45,000
That's all we good. 
Well, that lets into how do we 

285
00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:48,400
catch up with each other and 
Earth inspiration? 

286
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:52,100
I guess we could talk about 
practical challenges. 

287
00:17:52,100 --> 00:17:55,700
Like what's been kind of 
challenging your life or maybe 

288
00:17:55,700 --> 00:17:59,000
what have you purchased recently
that you are really excited 

289
00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:03,900
about I have. 
Yeah, I have You're just being a

290
00:18:03,900 --> 00:18:09,200
bunch of Health stuff and I feel
great about it but I also felt 

291
00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:12,200
completely overwhelmed. 
I'm a new homeowner for the 

292
00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:15,400
first time and of course I want 
to do everything happened once 

293
00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,800
but yeah. 
So I've been challenged with I 

294
00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:24,000
did this thing I made a I got a 
big cork board and I wrote down 

295
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:27,400
all of my projects that I have 
for my house because I felt like

296
00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:31,100
they were just all in my head 
just like mom wanting attention.

297
00:18:31,100 --> 00:18:34,500
And so it was so cathartic to to
write down all the different 

298
00:18:34,500 --> 00:18:38,100
projects and then like be able 
to stand back and look at them 

299
00:18:38,100 --> 00:18:40,100
and say like okay we're going to
take one thing at a time. 

300
00:18:40,100 --> 00:18:42,700
Going to prioritize this or that
it was so good. 

301
00:18:42,700 --> 00:18:44,600
It was so good. 
But yeah that the house has been

302
00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:48,200
challenging for me. 
Yeah, the organizational part of

303
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:52,200
my heart just loved all of that.
That that is how I live my whole

304
00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,000
life is I'm like write it all 
down. 

305
00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:57,300
Map it out. 
Prioritize it make it happen. 

306
00:18:57,300 --> 00:19:02,300
You know what I mean? 
Yes, yeah, but yeah, for me, 

307
00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,600
please. 
Yeah, it's well, it's all about 

308
00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:08,800
again balancing that like main 
theme in my life and it's all 

309
00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:10,600
about like creating that 
Harmony, right? 

310
00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:13,100
So, when I feel really stressed 
out and like, overwhelmed with 

311
00:19:13,100 --> 00:19:16,100
like work and pertussis, also, 
like trying to balance that out 

312
00:19:16,100 --> 00:19:19,100
with like, okay, but I need to 
add some like things that feed 

313
00:19:19,100 --> 00:19:24,000
my my spirit right in there. 
So, I've just been kind of 

314
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,600
trying to like delve into things
that like are important to me 

315
00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,800
and really keep the main things.
The main things to not to get so

316
00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:33,000
lost and like, work stuff, and 
schedules and making The 

317
00:19:33,008 --> 00:19:35,800
appointments and like, doing 
stuff that I like lose sight of,

318
00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:38,500
like the things that actually 
feed my happiness. 

319
00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:43,200
So one of those things is that I
have been purchasing a lot of 

320
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:48,200
witchy house. 
De Corey thinks sort of, also, 

321
00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:51,700
like practical things, because 
I'm a functional design lover. 

322
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:55,700
And so, my husband has finally 
gotten on board with, like, 

323
00:19:55,700 --> 00:19:57,200
listen, this whole ancestor 
altar. 

324
00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,400
It's a family one. 
It is not going anywhere. 

325
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:02,100
I've left you spaces and they 
will continue to sit empty until

326
00:20:02,100 --> 00:20:03,300
you put your shit. 
There. 

327
00:20:04,100 --> 00:20:08,100
And so he finally has like put 
his pictures of his mom and put 

328
00:20:08,100 --> 00:20:09,600
pictures of his grandparents up 
there. 

329
00:20:09,900 --> 00:20:13,000
And so I've been like purchasing
Plants and Things that like go 

330
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:14,300
along with it. 
I'll hold on. 

331
00:20:14,300 --> 00:20:15,400
Can you see it? 
Can you see? 

332
00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:18,700
Oh yeah thanks, right. 
He's got his, he's got his 

333
00:20:18,708 --> 00:20:23,300
little pictures up there, right?
And there's this, this little 

334
00:20:23,900 --> 00:20:26,700
trinket that belonged to his mom
is up there. 

335
00:20:26,900 --> 00:20:30,700
And so, I've purchased some 
planters to go up there and then

336
00:20:30,700 --> 00:20:34,100
plants to go with them because 
part of my Ancestor altar is 

337
00:20:34,100 --> 00:20:38,900
like keeping something alive for
the dead that's part of like my 

338
00:20:38,900 --> 00:20:42,900
my process. 
It's my veneration is to like 

339
00:20:42,900 --> 00:20:47,000
poor love and energy into 
something that is for them or 

340
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,100
like a representation of caring 
for them. 

341
00:20:49,700 --> 00:20:53,000
So don't do that unless you at 
all of that, don't do that 

342
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:54,400
unless you have a green thumb, 
right? 

343
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:58,800
Because it's a lot of pressure. 
Listen okay so you know how I 

344
00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:01,100
keep telling my papa on raise 
hell, right? 

345
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:03,800
His plan is the We won, that's 
died. 

346
00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,000
And I'm like, say less, say 
less. 

347
00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:09,300
I will get you something that 
cannot die. 

348
00:21:09,500 --> 00:21:12,500
I will, I will get you something
that literally doesn't die. 

349
00:21:12,700 --> 00:21:14,500
Like, we can keep playing this 
game. 

350
00:21:14,500 --> 00:21:16,900
You can keep putting your candle
out, you can keep wasting all 

351
00:21:16,900 --> 00:21:18,700
your water. 
I'm going to continue to refill 

352
00:21:18,700 --> 00:21:21,000
it and keep lighting it, so you 
can get on board or you can get 

353
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:22,700
off. 
I just hello. 

354
00:21:22,700 --> 00:21:27,800
I love my kite. 
You squabbling with your spirit 

355
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:30,900
of your papa. 
I'm just I'm so here for it. 

356
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:35,800
I just love that. 
Well, Modulations on the on 

357
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,300
getting mr. 
Danny to participate. 

358
00:21:38,300 --> 00:21:40,300
I think you. 
Yeah, you're winning. 

359
00:21:41,100 --> 00:21:43,900
I am winning this which war I 
mean he isn't a villain which 

360
00:21:43,900 --> 00:21:49,700
were but I'm winning it. 
Okay, slowly, what? 

361
00:21:49,700 --> 00:21:53,500
You're firing her entire house 
and so many ways that he doesn't

362
00:21:53,500 --> 00:21:54,800
even understand. 
And that's fine. 

363
00:21:55,800 --> 00:22:00,700
Yeah. 
I It's hard to contain it. 

364
00:22:00,700 --> 00:22:02,000
That's for sure, that's for 
sure. 

365
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,200
That's what I was gonna say. 
Do you experience that with your

366
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,000
partner? 
Where you're like, where is that

367
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:07,800
boundary between me making the 
house. 

368
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:12,700
Yeah. 
All about my beliefs and sharing

369
00:22:12,700 --> 00:22:14,400
that space. 
Absolutely. 

370
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,500
I think we could probably get 
into a longer conversation about

371
00:22:17,500 --> 00:22:22,200
that. 
I think it's The whole home 

372
00:22:24,300 --> 00:22:28,400
alter expansion. 
Takeover happens, quite easily. 

373
00:22:28,500 --> 00:22:33,200
I'm really lucky in that. 
I have a whole ritual room, so 

374
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:39,200
because of that, I feel as if I 
have to confine all of these 

375
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,600
things to this room which I'm 
totally okay with. 

376
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:43,600
I think it's like concentrating 
them not confining them. 

377
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:45,200
That's what I'm telling myself, 
right? 

378
00:22:45,300 --> 00:22:49,200
Yeah, but yeah, I mean I'm 
pretty. 

379
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:50,600
I'm pretty respectful. 
Awful. 

380
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:56,300
Because I have a whole room, so 
I can be, if it wasn't that 

381
00:22:56,300 --> 00:22:58,700
case, then that would be a 
different story. 

382
00:22:58,700 --> 00:23:02,300
I do have like a broom in every 
room. 

383
00:23:03,300 --> 00:23:04,300
I didn't mean to make that, 
right? 

384
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:10,200
And I do have a mirror in every 
room, like those are too kind 

385
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:12,900
of, but that's, you know, that 
can also have very mundane 

386
00:23:12,900 --> 00:23:15,600
purposes. 
So I try to balance it. 

387
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:17,500
I mean, right? 
Yeah. 

388
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,100
I'm not saying it's like, I have
all these like subtle. 

389
00:23:20,300 --> 00:23:22,200
Surround the house. 
Where like if you paid enough 

390
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:24,400
attention to it it would mean 
something. 

391
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,300
But for the rest of the world, 
they're just like okay cool. 

392
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:31,300
It's definitely on legume. 
Wooden splints are like, what is

393
00:23:31,300 --> 00:23:32,700
what is that black broom behind 
you? 

394
00:23:32,708 --> 00:23:34,900
I'm like oh what? 
Oh, that's yeah. 

395
00:23:36,700 --> 00:23:39,900
I picked it up on a trip to 
somewhere. 

396
00:23:39,900 --> 00:23:40,800
I don't. 
Yeah. 

397
00:23:41,100 --> 00:23:42,800
Anyways, moving on next next 
time. 

398
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:46,200
Know that that's a challenge. 
Yeah. 

399
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:49,300
Yeah, that balance with your 
partner and how to maintain, you

400
00:23:49,308 --> 00:23:51,400
know, you're home. 
Um in the way that you want to 

401
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:54,600
but also make space for them. 
Yeah especially when you have 

402
00:23:54,600 --> 00:24:00,200
multiple partners. 
Why did we sign up for that now?

403
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:01,100
I'm just kidding. 
I love them. 

404
00:24:01,100 --> 00:24:04,900
Dearly yes. 
Alright great well thanks for 

405
00:24:04,900 --> 00:24:09,300
catching up on our yeah. 
What's up to what you doing? 

406
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:13,500
Which end to that we really need
like a really like bomb theme 

407
00:24:13,500 --> 00:24:14,900
song right there. 
Okay. 

408
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,800
And I keep going back to them, 
that doesn't end in Menna. 

409
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:19,600
I feel like that's gonna have to
be it. 

410
00:24:21,100 --> 00:24:22,200
Okay. 
All right. 

411
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:23,400
All right. 
That could be the info. 

412
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:25,400
I'm here for it. 
All right. 

413
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:30,000
Well, let's let's transition 
into today's larger topic which 

414
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,700
is our kind of resolution part 2
of worshiping the gods. 

415
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,600
As we said, we're to get into 
kind of the water aspects and 

416
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:41,000
the Earth aspect. 
So, starting with the water want

417
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:46,700
to kind of dive in a little bit 
of history about God's, which is

418
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:51,200
kind of a large topic, but But 
some things I think I could 

419
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,300
probably address which would be,
you know, what are some of the 

420
00:24:54,300 --> 00:25:00,200
first recorded gods and deities 
and really the issue with 

421
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:05,300
history is that we only know 
about cultures and belief 

422
00:25:05,300 --> 00:25:09,100
systems through artifacts and 
through writings, right? 

423
00:25:09,100 --> 00:25:14,000
So the first in my research in 
inanna is really the first. 

424
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:19,000
Kind of like Sumerian Goddess 
that we have evidence of during 

425
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:29,400
like Before common error and 
4000 to 3000 100 in that era. 

426
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:34,100
We would see inanna as a 
Sumerian goddess, show up in 

427
00:25:34,100 --> 00:25:36,400
text. 
But before that, I mean, even in

428
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,200
prehistoric. 
Religions, it's hard for us to 

429
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:44,100
really know, because that's what
99% of human history is. 

430
00:25:44,700 --> 00:25:50,300
Meaning that humans have existed
long before words, and we do See

431
00:25:50,300 --> 00:25:53,600
some evidence of god and goddess
veneration. 

432
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,300
I'm gonna butcher this 
pronunciation but Venus of Lhasa

433
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,100
is a statue and you will know 
it. 

434
00:26:02,100 --> 00:26:07,200
When I say it, the very 
voluptuous nude woman. 

435
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,400
It's in Limestone, it's a bass 
relief, it's about 18 inches 

436
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,700
high. 
And this is a figure that holds 

437
00:26:13,700 --> 00:26:16,700
a bison horn. 
Its could have also been a 

438
00:26:16,708 --> 00:26:20,000
cornucopia hard to say in one 
hand and it had 13. 

439
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:26,100
Chess and it, which is often 
thought to represent moon 

440
00:26:26,100 --> 00:26:28,300
cycles. 
So that's very interesting. 

441
00:26:28,300 --> 00:26:31,700
And it had large breasts and a 
great stomach and wide hips. 

442
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:36,500
And so this was thought to be 
proof of goddess worship. 

443
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:40,300
But who knows, right? 
Like, we are only seeing 

444
00:26:40,300 --> 00:26:46,700
evidence of this specific statue
is 25,000 years old but who 

445
00:26:46,700 --> 00:26:52,200
knows if this was just a really 
hot selfie or A representation 

446
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,700
of a goddess. 
I would assume based on the how 

447
00:26:54,700 --> 00:26:58,800
difficult it would be to make 
art when you don't have any of 

448
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,500
these basic necessities covered 
like a refrigerator full of 

449
00:27:02,500 --> 00:27:03,700
food. 
Probably wouldn't. 

450
00:27:03,700 --> 00:27:08,300
Just make a piece of art, you 
probably would spend time making

451
00:27:08,700 --> 00:27:15,000
a depiction of your daddy. 
So that's what we often look to 

452
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:20,000
as like some of the first proof 
of god and goddess worship. 

453
00:27:22,300 --> 00:27:23,700
You can deep dive. 
Yeah, first. 

454
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:28,000
And then kind of, you know why 
did humans create Gods? 

455
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:34,100
Like what would be the reason to
create something less physical 

456
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,600
right in this very physical 
world that we live in. 

457
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,100
What is the the motivation to 
create gods? 

458
00:27:39,100 --> 00:27:43,800
And and something that is not 
physically tangible and it's 

459
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:47,100
really one of those things where
it's the intermediate between 

460
00:27:47,500 --> 00:27:50,700
the divine, right? 
So as we come Kind of move from 

461
00:27:50,700 --> 00:27:54,100
this hunter-gatherer Society 
worried about keeping ourselves 

462
00:27:54,100 --> 00:27:57,700
fed, keeping ourselves safe from
predators all of that into a 

463
00:27:57,700 --> 00:28:02,000
more Agricultural Society. 
We really needed to create 

464
00:28:02,100 --> 00:28:04,300
Collective rules for 
cooperation, right? 

465
00:28:04,300 --> 00:28:07,700
We needed to create a society in
which we were all working toward

466
00:28:07,700 --> 00:28:11,600
a common goal, and focus. 
And so I think, you know, some 

467
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:15,200
of that comes from needing to 
create societal constructs. 

468
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:20,000
So needing to create one deity 
or one group. 

469
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,600
Belief so that we can all kind 
of fall in line with those norms

470
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,000
and then you have a great 
article that will link in the 

471
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,800
show notes, but that kind of 
talks about this need to create 

472
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:34,200
like an entity bigger than 
ourselves that kind of guides 

473
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,500
our behavior and guides. 
Our actions one that we can kind

474
00:28:37,500 --> 00:28:40,100
of give control to when things 
feel very out of control. 

475
00:28:40,100 --> 00:28:43,400
So we're not in control of the 
wet season and whether or not we

476
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,500
get rain for the crops and 
whether or not there is drought 

477
00:28:46,500 --> 00:28:50,200
or famine being able to have 
this intermediary to act on our 

478
00:28:50,208 --> 00:28:54,400
behalf to help resolve. 
Those issues is both very 

479
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:58,000
important with keeping an 
Agricultural Society but also 

480
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,800
with keeping people kind of 
focus on that common goal. 

481
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:07,200
Yeah well said love that. 
I want to also draw some 

482
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,500
connections here. 
So like why do I mean? 

483
00:29:10,500 --> 00:29:12,800
I believe and I think we talked 
about this before. 

484
00:29:12,900 --> 00:29:17,300
If I can speak on your behalf, 
we believe that God's our human 

485
00:29:17,300 --> 00:29:20,000
construct, you know, we would 
not be without the guy. 

486
00:29:20,100 --> 00:29:23,800
Gods, but the gods would also 
not be without us kind of idea. 

487
00:29:24,300 --> 00:29:28,200
So, if historically, we're 
looking at, you know, 

488
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:34,300
systemically why do Why is it 
that, you know, potentially 

489
00:29:34,300 --> 00:29:38,900
pagans or wiccans, any 
organization? 

490
00:29:38,900 --> 00:29:41,400
That is not monotheistic. 
You know, why do they worship 

491
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,700
and how different are they in 
comparison to monotheistic 

492
00:29:44,700 --> 00:29:48,100
religions? 
I think that generally people 

493
00:29:48,100 --> 00:29:56,000
have this point of view that oh 
I practiced Witchcraft and I'm 

494
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,300
polytheistic. 
Therefore I'm not religious and 

495
00:29:58,300 --> 00:30:02,100
there are so many similarities 
right between the Oceans of why 

496
00:30:02,100 --> 00:30:10,200
we acknowledge and venerate and 
give worship to God's both from 

497
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,600
a Christian point of view. 
And from a pagan point of view 

498
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:17,100
monotheistic point of view and 
also polytheistic point of view.

499
00:30:17,100 --> 00:30:18,700
So I want to draw some of those 
connections, right? 

500
00:30:18,700 --> 00:30:25,300
So in our dominant religion in 
North America here, 

501
00:30:25,300 --> 00:30:31,000
Christianity, they have some 
basic ideas of you know, why to 

502
00:30:32,100 --> 00:30:36,600
Protection being one of them, of
course, you want to worship a 

503
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,800
God because ultimately what's 
going to happen when you die, 

504
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,300
you want to be able to go to 
heaven as Christians believe. 

505
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:50,700
And so it in order to save your 
Eternal Soul, you want to be in 

506
00:30:50,700 --> 00:30:53,100
relationship with God and do as 
God wants you to. 

507
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,300
They also, you know, would 
potentially be concerned about 

508
00:30:57,300 --> 00:31:02,600
God's Wrath, you know, in the 
Bible, we would see Cities 

509
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:06,700
turned to Salt because there was
lack of worship of God, which 

510
00:31:06,700 --> 00:31:08,900
they might also see. 
The reason that they would be 

511
00:31:08,900 --> 00:31:14,600
motivated to worship God as 
being protected from the devil, 

512
00:31:14,700 --> 00:31:17,900
right? 
So overall, if we zoomed out, 

513
00:31:17,900 --> 00:31:19,500
that's really about protection, 
right? 

514
00:31:19,500 --> 00:31:22,700
So, that'd be one reason why 
Christians would worship Gods. 

515
00:31:22,900 --> 00:31:27,200
Another reason would be to 
receive the blessings of God. 

516
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,200
And if I were to boil that down,
really, it's about manifest. 

517
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,800
Shouldn't have desires. 
So we have protection. 

518
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,000
We have manifestation of 
desires. 

519
00:31:36,300 --> 00:31:39,600
The other thing that often 
Christians point to, as reason 

520
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:43,400
to worship God is that God will 
critical give them strength. 

521
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,700
You know, I came from a very 
Christian background and so both

522
00:31:46,700 --> 00:31:51,000
my mother and my grandmother 
recovered from alcoholism 

523
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:57,400
through Jesus has strengths. 
And so zooming out the 

524
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:01,200
motivations to worship gods or 
worship. 

525
00:32:01,300 --> 00:32:03,800
A God in the Christian point of 
view is protection manifestation

526
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:07,300
and ability, and I think we 
could probably draw some through

527
00:32:07,300 --> 00:32:13,800
lines even to a Wiccan point of 
view or a polytheistic point of 

528
00:32:13,808 --> 00:32:18,400
view. 
And then from, you know a would 

529
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,000
just point of view from the 
point of view of somebody who 

530
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:25,700
kind of has a polytheistic view,
the gods are really an energy 

531
00:32:25,700 --> 00:32:30,700
source to that we can draw upon 
that we can work with in order 

532
00:32:30,700 --> 00:32:32,700
to achieve a lot of the same 
things really. 

533
00:32:32,700 --> 00:32:36,200
So we're talking about land 
Spirits, Elementals kind of 

534
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:42,900
egregores ancestors deity, all 
of that and so for protection, 

535
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:48,100
we're talking about things like 
from Our beings other people 

536
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,000
from energies outside of 
ourselves. 

537
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,900
So whether we're talking about, 
like, whether and a bad storm 

538
00:32:53,900 --> 00:32:57,600
coming or things like that, 
we're still seeking protection 

539
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:01,700
by manipulating that energy from
a witch's perspective 

540
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,600
manifestation. 
So, we're talking about our 

541
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,500
desires more in the physical 
sense. 

542
00:33:07,900 --> 00:33:10,400
So when you come from a 
Christian point of view or, you 

543
00:33:10,408 --> 00:33:13,300
know, you could be praying and 
that is a physical act of 

544
00:33:13,300 --> 00:33:17,200
praying for desires. 
Testing that and very similar 

545
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:19,600
things happen, you know, from a 
witch's perspective, whether 

546
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,300
that's creation of a spell 
creation for a jewel, even 

547
00:33:22,300 --> 00:33:24,200
prayers. 
I mean, there, there are witches

548
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:29,100
who participate in that kind of 
praying chanting. 

549
00:33:29,100 --> 00:33:32,800
You know, they're all like one 
in the same, you know, and then 

550
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:37,300
ability. 
So we're working on and 

551
00:33:37,300 --> 00:33:41,700
developing these skills of 
divination of mental faculties 

552
00:33:41,700 --> 00:33:45,400
of the the ability to kind of 
see through things. 

553
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:51,200
See them less through the lens 
of like the physical and more 

554
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:56,000
through the lens of intuition, 
physical strength, healing, 

555
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,700
right, healing and protection 
over those that we care about 

556
00:33:58,700 --> 00:34:01,600
and ourselves as well as our own
self control. 

557
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:06,300
A big part of, this is kind of 
the loss of ego or that at least

558
00:34:06,300 --> 00:34:12,400
the management of ego and, and 
trying to kind of to hone your 

559
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:17,699
intuition and not have it kind 
of be Blindsided by all of the 

560
00:34:17,699 --> 00:34:19,900
other worldly things, you know 
that are going on. 

561
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,699
Yeah, I mean, so both from, you 
know, even if we were to compare

562
00:34:23,699 --> 00:34:27,300
Christianity and, and even like 
a Wiccan point of view, these 

563
00:34:27,300 --> 00:34:31,000
are essentially doing a lot of 
the same things, I mean, yeah. 

564
00:34:31,199 --> 00:34:33,699
We're all talking about 
perfection, Perfection. 

565
00:34:34,199 --> 00:34:36,800
We're all, I was 14. 
We're all talking about this 

566
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:41,800
accident manifestation and, you 
know, receiving some type of 

567
00:34:41,808 --> 00:34:46,800
abilities in that way. 
And Yeah, so it's interesting 

568
00:34:47,100 --> 00:34:51,900
that often we see ourselves as 
so different, but if we break it

569
00:34:51,900 --> 00:34:54,400
down into the motivations, 
they're quite similar. 

570
00:34:54,400 --> 00:35:01,000
But just to kind of wrap up the 
water portion of this segment on

571
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,000
God worship, I would say 
overall, like, if I were to zoom

572
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:10,100
out I worship Gods because I 
find comfort and believing in 

573
00:35:10,100 --> 00:35:12,400
Divine Consciousness greater 
than my own. 

574
00:35:12,900 --> 00:35:18,900
And personally, my theory my 
belief is that there is a 

575
00:35:18,900 --> 00:35:23,600
collective Consciousness, that's
greater than all things that is 

576
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:27,300
removed from humans and we 
couldn't possibly really 

577
00:35:27,300 --> 00:35:31,300
interact with and so I believe 
that humans. 

578
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:37,800
Desire and humans inevitably, we
always come to the realization 

579
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:40,800
that we need gods. 
And I believe that humans 

580
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:45,800
created gods and I believe that 
we continue to feed these 

581
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,600
energies with our thoughts and 
our prayers, and our veneration,

582
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:52,900
and even discussions like this. 
And by doing so, we make them 

583
00:35:52,900 --> 00:35:56,800
powerful and they serve as a 
tenement intermediary between 

584
00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:01,300
this Collective Consciousness. 
And so, as we Empower them, they

585
00:36:01,300 --> 00:36:08,500
empower So if I had to be really
succinct with my belief around, 

586
00:36:09,500 --> 00:36:11,800
God's existence. 
Now, this is, of course, not my 

587
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:15,200
belief around, you know, what 
happens after you die, or how is

588
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:17,800
the World created. 
But just when I approach the 

589
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:21,200
topic of God's, that's yeah, 
those are my feelings. 

590
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:22,900
I feel pretty comforted by that 
idea. 

591
00:36:23,900 --> 00:36:26,700
How about you Danny? 
And you zoomed out and I'm gonna

592
00:36:26,700 --> 00:36:29,800
Zoom real in so that that 
relationship for me, right 

593
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:33,900
relationships. 
A big part of Probably my cancer

594
00:36:33,900 --> 00:36:36,300
son. 
It's just kind of focusing on 

595
00:36:36,300 --> 00:36:40,600
relationships and kind of the 
the said and unsaid between two 

596
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,500
entities. 
And so for me that connection 

597
00:36:43,900 --> 00:36:47,200
should be mutually beneficial 
not necessarily transactional in

598
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:49,300
nature but released mutually 
beneficial. 

599
00:36:49,300 --> 00:36:52,600
And so I think relationship with
Didi should feel like kind of 

600
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:56,800
sharing the strength of each 
other and building camaraderie. 

601
00:36:57,700 --> 00:37:00,000
If at any point that 
relationship kind of feels like,

602
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,100
it's becoming one sided and 
Leave. 

603
00:37:02,100 --> 00:37:04,700
It feels like that relationship 
is becoming negative in the 

604
00:37:04,700 --> 00:37:07,800
sense of the effort you've put 
in the money. 

605
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:10,200
You've spent the time that's 
invested, then it's probably 

606
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:14,100
time to pump the brakes, the 
energy that you invest should be

607
00:37:14,100 --> 00:37:17,600
given positively and like Oak 
said that Collective 

608
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:19,200
Consciousness. 
Empowers. 

609
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:21,400
The God. 
So if your investment isn't 

610
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:25,400
being given freely and with 
positive intent, I would say 

611
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,200
that it's probably negatively 
impacting the both of you. 

612
00:37:28,700 --> 00:37:31,700
So my kind of view on gods and 
God worship. 

613
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,800
It is really that you're 
creating a relationship. 

614
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:37,300
You are again. 
Kind of following that thought 

615
00:37:37,300 --> 00:37:40,800
through of dating, the gods 
you're creating this 

616
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:44,700
relationship and it should feel 
like something that is 

617
00:37:44,700 --> 00:37:46,500
comforting. 
It should feel like something 

618
00:37:46,500 --> 00:37:48,400
that is beneficial to both of 
you. 

619
00:37:49,700 --> 00:37:51,100
Yeah. 
Thank you. 

620
00:37:51,100 --> 00:37:55,700
Thanks for sharing that. 
Alright so let's transition into

621
00:37:55,700 --> 00:37:58,600
this kind of like Earth approach
to the topic. 

622
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:02,800
So I'm talking about the like 
everyday challenges as we 

623
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:06,500
integrate this information and 
kind of debating through some of

624
00:38:06,500 --> 00:38:10,900
the potentially problematic 
things as we consider. 

625
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:17,500
God's in general. 
So as an example here, one 

626
00:38:17,500 --> 00:38:21,700
challenge. 
As you start to approach deity, 

627
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:30,200
you could find yourself 
potentially being Maybe letdown 

628
00:38:30,300 --> 00:38:33,600
maybe not feeling that like, 
intense, mystical connection 

629
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:35,000
that other people are 
describing. 

630
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:39,700
I think I have definitely felt 
this and I don't know Danny have

631
00:38:39,700 --> 00:38:42,600
you felt this before? 
Like wait, maybe the gods aren't

632
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:47,300
talking to me, maybe they're not
into me, or maybe the state is. 

633
00:38:47,300 --> 00:38:51,800
Now, I don't think maybe, you 
know, as a which I think it for 

634
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:53,800
sure. 
In the younger years of my life,

635
00:38:54,300 --> 00:38:58,400
I had, you know, my mom was very
much like a not super religious.

636
00:38:58,500 --> 00:39:01,100
Sin, but was very open to like, 
you should have seen and 

637
00:39:01,100 --> 00:39:04,600
experienced lots of different 
religious, and religious ideals,

638
00:39:04,900 --> 00:39:07,300
and kind of going to many 
different services and kind of 

639
00:39:07,300 --> 00:39:10,900
being like, I don't, I'm not 
feeling it, I'm just not feeling

640
00:39:10,900 --> 00:39:12,300
what everybody's feeling, I 
don't know. 

641
00:39:12,300 --> 00:39:14,000
Is it me? 
Am I the problem? 

642
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:21,000
And so I, you know, I think when
I came into witchcraft, I didn't

643
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:25,000
I didn't come into this with the
idea of deity worship. 

644
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:28,400
I really came into this as like 
a experiential. 

645
00:39:29,300 --> 00:39:34,000
Practice, not necessarily a 
religion at first and so I I 

646
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,700
don't think I set up that 
expectation which I think is one

647
00:39:36,700 --> 00:39:38,400
of those things that we'll talk 
about is I didn't set that 

648
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:42,800
expectation of like, needing to 
have a religious experience, but

649
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:46,000
I definitely have experience 
that let down through the lens 

650
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:49,600
of other religions and being 
like, I don't know what's going 

651
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,000
on. 
And I don't, I'm not feeling the

652
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,900
same energy, the people around 
me seemed to be feeling. 

653
00:39:55,300 --> 00:39:58,700
Yeah. 
Yeah, I think, you know for, for

654
00:39:58,700 --> 00:40:02,300
me, I definitely approached 
witchcraft from a religious 

655
00:40:02,300 --> 00:40:07,600
point of view knowing that that 
was a whole my life that I 

656
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:10,000
wanted to find connection 
through. 

657
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:13,700
But also, I mean, I approached 
witchcraft from personal 

658
00:40:13,700 --> 00:40:17,600
empowerment and a way of 
bringing magic into my everyday 

659
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:19,300
right in that kind of 
connection. 

660
00:40:19,300 --> 00:40:24,700
But yeah, I think initially, I 
didn't necessarily seek that 

661
00:40:25,300 --> 00:40:28,400
shal relationship because I 
assumed that that was going to 

662
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:34,600
require some time to to create 
relationship right away. 

663
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:41,800
I very much can see how 
Transactional, the connection 

664
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:43,600
and relationship with a God can 
get. 

665
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:48,600
And so I very much was resistant
against it feeling like that. 

666
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,900
And so for me I realized that I 
wasn't going to be able to have 

667
00:40:51,900 --> 00:40:56,600
that initial mystical connection
until I put time and effort into

668
00:40:56,900 --> 00:41:01,500
making that connection. 
But overall I mean I think if 

669
00:41:01,500 --> 00:41:06,600
you're not feeling the woowoo of
the deity that you are 

670
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:09,800
connecting with, Generally. 
It's, you know, one of a couple 

671
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,600
of things I would point to 
number one would be, you know, 

672
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:16,500
as you said maybe the connect 
the expectation that you have is

673
00:41:17,700 --> 00:41:20,200
too high. 
Maybe people have described it 

674
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:22,900
in a way that you wouldn't 
experience if any like, we're 

675
00:41:22,900 --> 00:41:25,400
all different, right? 
Even when it comes to like, if I

676
00:41:25,408 --> 00:41:30,800
made the connection to the like 
player of what the players write

677
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:35,300
this, like super sense of 
Clairvoyance clairaudience and 

678
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,500
not everybody has that same 
psychic. 

679
00:41:37,900 --> 00:41:43,700
In intuition. 
Some people could hear messages 

680
00:41:43,700 --> 00:41:46,000
some people psychically, right? 
Some people could feel messages 

681
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:48,400
and people could see things 
smell things taste things, 

682
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:51,200
right? 
And so why would it not be any 

683
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:56,400
different with the gods, right? 
Just because someone else has 

684
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:59,500
and a static feeling, doesn't 
mean that that's what you're 

685
00:41:59,500 --> 00:42:01,300
going to feel. 
Maybe it's going to come through

686
00:42:01,300 --> 00:42:03,900
dreams, maybe it's going to come
through signs and signals. 

687
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:07,500
Maybe it's going to come as you 
do additional research, but 

688
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:10,600
Generally think managing 
expectations and not expecting 

689
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:15,200
your experience to be the same 
as others is a big one and then 

690
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:19,700
also like don't rush it, it's 
going to take time for 

691
00:42:19,700 --> 00:42:23,700
relationship to develop. 
And I think the final thing is 

692
00:42:23,700 --> 00:42:28,800
like When in doubt, turn to 
tools of divination to channel 

693
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:33,000
messages, I think that that is 
quite useful in getting signals,

694
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:37,800
right? 
So, just ideas here that you did

695
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:38,900
that. 
Yeah. 

696
00:42:38,900 --> 00:42:42,100
If you're not, if you're not 
feeling it, maybe maybe think 

697
00:42:42,100 --> 00:42:46,400
about some of those topics. 
Yeah, I know that was a really 

698
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:49,200
succinct way to kind of wrap up.
You know, how often do we hear? 

699
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:52,300
Someone say like, oh yeah, I 
just like gravitated towards 

700
00:42:52,300 --> 00:42:53,600
this. 
Like for instance, you, with 

701
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:57,700
astrology, super jealous. 
Get it, not good at math, love 

702
00:42:57,700 --> 00:42:58,900
it. 
I think it's amazing. 

703
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:01,000
Just it's just doesn't speak to 
me. 

704
00:43:01,900 --> 00:43:04,200
But I if I went into it with 
that expectation that I'm going 

705
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:07,400
to be just as good as it. 
Yeah, as you are, I would be a 

706
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,500
just continuously let down. 
It's just not where my strengths

707
00:43:10,500 --> 00:43:11,900
lie. 
Still think it's super 

708
00:43:11,900 --> 00:43:14,100
interesting. 
Still want to hear all about it,

709
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:16,500
but it's just not where my 
strengths lie. 

710
00:43:16,500 --> 00:43:19,400
So again, if you're not having 
that same experience, it doesn't

711
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:22,200
mean necessarily there's 
anything wrong with you, or with

712
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:23,700
that connection or that 
relationship that you're 

713
00:43:23,700 --> 00:43:25,700
building. 
It may be that you need to 

714
00:43:25,700 --> 00:43:28,300
manage those expectations. 
It might not be the same as what

715
00:43:28,300 --> 00:43:32,000
everyone else is describing and 
then we want to talk about how 

716
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:36,200
do you know if it's working? 
You know, how do you know that, 

717
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:40,000
like the gods have sent this 
image of the crow to you? 

718
00:43:41,100 --> 00:43:44,200
When is it delusion versus when 
it is, it reality and kind of 

719
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:49,100
that that very blurry line of, 
you know, when is it may be a 

720
00:43:49,100 --> 00:43:52,100
mental health issue. 
You know, if you are having 

721
00:43:52,100 --> 00:43:56,600
hallucinations of the Gods every
day, I would say it's probably 

722
00:43:56,600 --> 00:44:00,400
time that to seek professional 
help and I don't say that. 

723
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:04,100
Lately, I say that coming from a
family of someone who was who 

724
00:44:04,100 --> 00:44:08,300
was a and is severely, mentally 
ill, and was also a practicing 

725
00:44:08,300 --> 00:44:11,000
witch. 
And so somewhere in there, those

726
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:15,900
lines became very blurred. 
And so, this is where I would 

727
00:44:15,900 --> 00:44:19,400
say, how do you know if 
something is what you think it 

728
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:21,900
is. 
And I think, usually, those 

729
00:44:21,900 --> 00:44:23,900
signs that an oak. 
Definitely, give us your 

730
00:44:23,900 --> 00:44:26,300
personal experience, but 
usually, those signs are a lot 

731
00:44:26,300 --> 00:44:28,500
more clear. 
If you are questioning, whether 

732
00:44:28,500 --> 00:44:30,900
something is a message from the 
guy, God's. 

733
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:35,000
It probably isn't. 
Usually those signs are like, oh

734
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:37,400
okay, I got it. 
I hear you. 

735
00:44:37,500 --> 00:44:39,600
I could see you. 
I see what you're doing here. 

736
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:44,000
If you're questioning it it's 
probably not, right? 

737
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:47,000
So you need to know when to call
a crow Crow and kind of go on 

738
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:51,100
about your day and then there's 
also you know it's very 

739
00:44:51,100 --> 00:44:56,400
subjective so who really knows 
you know you and I may see the 

740
00:44:56,400 --> 00:45:00,400
same crow in the tree and for me
it's just a crow. 

741
00:45:00,500 --> 00:45:03,300
In a tree because I don't have 
any reference point for that. 

742
00:45:03,300 --> 00:45:06,100
It doesn't mean something 
distinctly to me, where you 

743
00:45:06,100 --> 00:45:08,300
might see it. 
And be like, oh, this this 

744
00:45:08,300 --> 00:45:12,600
really means something to me. 
And so it really is about that 

745
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:16,500
level of discernment. 
But I would say, what point, you

746
00:45:16,500 --> 00:45:20,700
kind of feel like it's happening
all of the time, and it's 

747
00:45:20,700 --> 00:45:23,800
constant, and it's pervasive in 
your life. 

748
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:27,500
That's where I would question 
your judgment on those things. 

749
00:45:29,500 --> 00:45:33,800
So how to know if it's working? 
I think is really trusting your 

750
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:37,400
gut about these things and then 
also knowing when to maybe not 

751
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:40,000
trust your gut. 
So when is your perception, may 

752
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:45,200
be been diluted some because of 
what's going on in your life 

753
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:48,200
because of your own emotions 
because of significant 

754
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:49,500
biological factors. 
Right? 

755
00:45:49,500 --> 00:45:51,900
Of what might be going on with 
your brain chemistry and things 

756
00:45:51,900 --> 00:45:54,400
like that? 
Yeah, I have a number of friends

757
00:45:54,400 --> 00:46:01,800
who are who struggle with 
different Current challenges 

758
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:04,600
mentally and and who can suffer 
from delusions. 

759
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:08,300
And I think a lot about, you 
know, if I was in their shoes, 

760
00:46:08,300 --> 00:46:12,100
how where would I draw the line 
between deity Andalusia? 

761
00:46:12,100 --> 00:46:17,900
And I think, you know, I'm not 
sure if it matters so long as 

762
00:46:17,900 --> 00:46:22,300
it's serving you for the good, 
of course. 

763
00:46:22,300 --> 00:46:26,400
There's, I would say, I don't 
know, I just hate these that the

764
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:29,200
like feedback like when, you 
know, you know I'm like I don't 

765
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:30,200
know that that's the case, 
right? 

766
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:33,000
I think like a lot of people 
don't know, and then they think 

767
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:33,900
there's something wrong with 
them. 

768
00:46:33,900 --> 00:46:36,300
And then, so, I don't know if 
that's the case. 

769
00:46:36,300 --> 00:46:41,800
I mean, I shared an example 
with, with our group last night 

770
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:49,000
and circle, and there's often 
this like, point where you're 

771
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:52,700
asking for clarity from deity. 
Like, if you're trying to give 

772
00:46:52,700 --> 00:46:55,500
me the sign, confirm it in these
ways, and you can't just keep 

773
00:46:55,500 --> 00:46:57,300
doing that over and over again, 
right? 

774
00:46:57,300 --> 00:46:59,800
Right. 
However, Were, you know, in the 

775
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:04,000
first episode on this topic, 
episode 2, season one, I talked 

776
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:08,500
about being clear with your 
daddy around how you will 

777
00:47:08,500 --> 00:47:12,200
interpret their signs and like 
creating a relationship that 

778
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:17,300
says hey and I anytime I see 
this symbol or this sign, I'm 

779
00:47:17,300 --> 00:47:20,000
going to know that that's from 
you, right? 

780
00:47:20,300 --> 00:47:23,400
So for me with Hestia, it's you 
know, connected with the number 

781
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:26,200
four. 
And so for me it's really easy 

782
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:30,100
if I'm having like Everyday, I 
just happened to look at the 

783
00:47:30,100 --> 00:47:32,600
clock when it's 444 and I 
haven't looked at the clock all 

784
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:35,400
day while it's like okay, yep, 
heard hey, what's up? 

785
00:47:36,500 --> 00:47:43,400
Hey, it's our time. 
So I think in order to know if a

786
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:46,700
symbol is meant for you, it's 
often easy assist. 

787
00:47:46,700 --> 00:47:50,000
If you go in with like hey 
here's the things that will 

788
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:52,000
confirm to me. 
That this is a message for me 

789
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:56,100
that's like it's usually easier 
on the front end to clarify what

790
00:47:56,100 --> 00:47:59,500
a message is then to try to. 
Interpret on the back end. 

791
00:47:59,500 --> 00:48:02,800
That's what I have found. 
I've often not, I would say, a 

792
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:05,800
very intuitive person naturally.
I'm pretty practical and 

793
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:09,600
logical. 
And but, yeah, if I, you know, 

794
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:13,000
struggled with delusion, I think
it would be much more difficult 

795
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:15,300
for me to draw the line between 
those things. 

796
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:19,300
And so, if you're either 
struggling with question 

797
00:48:19,300 --> 00:48:22,100
yourself all the time or 
potentially struggling, with 

798
00:48:22,100 --> 00:48:25,400
finding the line between reality
and illusion, maybe having an 

799
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:28,600
agreement with the entity, 
whether that's Any energy, 

800
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:30,600
right? 
Whether it's a land Spirit or an

801
00:48:30,608 --> 00:48:34,700
ancestor or a deity to say hey 
communicate with me in this way 

802
00:48:34,700 --> 00:48:37,100
and that way I'll know for sure.
I think that could be helpful. 

803
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:38,600
Yeah. 
Right. 

804
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:40,600
Setting setting parameter 
setting expectations. 

805
00:48:41,700 --> 00:48:44,200
Really everywhere in life is 
very important, right? 

806
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:47,200
Is is kind of, you know, this is
what I expect in. 

807
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:49,100
This is what I want to get out 
of it and this is why I'd like 

808
00:48:49,100 --> 00:48:51,500
it to look like. 
Because when you don't set those

809
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:54,300
expectations, you're really only
setting yourself up for one or 

810
00:48:54,300 --> 00:48:57,900
two things and that's one to be 
let down because maybe you don't

811
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:03,200
Variants, any of those things or
two, everything means something.

812
00:49:03,300 --> 00:49:07,600
And then now you spend all day 
kind of trying to decide between

813
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:10,800
like conflicting messages. 
And because if everything is 

814
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:12,300
important, that nothing is 
important, right? 

815
00:49:12,300 --> 00:49:17,300
So it is one of those things 
that it is so subjective, and it

816
00:49:17,300 --> 00:49:22,600
is so person to person. 
And so I think that's a great 

817
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:25,900
point about like just setting 
expectations for like this is 

818
00:49:25,900 --> 00:49:29,900
how I want to receive. 
Sieve messaging or this is, what

819
00:49:29,900 --> 00:49:33,100
is going to catch my attention 
and mean something to me so that

820
00:49:33,100 --> 00:49:37,900
you're not kind of in this 
in-between of like is that you 

821
00:49:39,100 --> 00:49:42,300
is that you is that, are we 
talking or is this, or is that 

822
00:49:42,300 --> 00:49:46,900
really just a crow or a feather 
or you know those those tangible

823
00:49:46,900 --> 00:49:51,300
things in the real world? 
And then we have an item here 

824
00:49:51,300 --> 00:49:56,600
about is it problematic to share
our beliefs of the Gods, right? 

825
00:49:56,600 --> 00:50:02,100
Where is that line between 
sharing belief and impressing 

826
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:05,600
belief upon other people? 
And I, for me, I think it really

827
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:09,200
depends on intention. 
So my intention and sharing my 

828
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:14,900
experience is to offer my logic 
and my experience as a point of 

829
00:50:14,900 --> 00:50:17,400
consideration just as something 
to put out there for people to 

830
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:20,400
be like, oh, maybe I haven't. 
Heard of that before or seen 

831
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:27,000
that before, or known about that
before my, I have no investment 

832
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:29,700
in the outcome of that 
conversation. 

833
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:34,700
Or if that experience, I have no
reason to, like, draw people 

834
00:50:34,700 --> 00:50:38,700
into, please celebrate my DD, 
with me, I'm not trying to 

835
00:50:38,700 --> 00:50:40,800
create a cult and that trying to
create a religion. 

836
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:45,100
I just want to share this 
information because part of it 

837
00:50:45,100 --> 00:50:47,500
also is feeding that egregore, 
right? 

838
00:50:47,500 --> 00:50:50,100
And so as I talked about, About 
the gods. 

839
00:50:50,100 --> 00:50:52,600
That is also part of the 
veneration piece of it. 

840
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:57,000
So for me, that, that line is in
intention. 

841
00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:59,800
Now that is not to say intention
versus impact, right? 

842
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:02,900
I can go in with the best 
intentions, but if the impact is

843
00:51:02,900 --> 00:51:07,200
that, I unintentionally created 
a cult, that's on me, that's on 

844
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:10,000
me. 
Yeah, but for me, you know, I'm 

845
00:51:10,008 --> 00:51:15,400
not going into it, trying to 
Evangelize people I think yeah 

846
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:21,100
that's a point that was really 
interesting to me as a point of 

847
00:51:21,108 --> 00:51:25,800
contrast to let's say you know 
modern Christianity in America 

848
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:34,300
that like the evangelizing isn't
actually is actually frowned on 

849
00:51:34,500 --> 00:51:37,200
within specifically like Wiccan 
spaces. 

850
00:51:37,500 --> 00:51:41,500
We very much don't want to 
influence people's Free Will and

851
00:51:41,500 --> 00:51:47,500
we very much are Trying to 
attract Seekers rather than, you

852
00:51:47,500 --> 00:51:52,000
know, project our ideas on 
people and we're not trying to 

853
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:56,600
recruit anybody. 
However, when I talk about 

854
00:51:56,600 --> 00:52:02,200
Hestia like, I would love it. 
If other people would also look 

855
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:06,300
into be curious about and want 
to worship St. 

856
00:52:06,300 --> 00:52:10,200
Of course, right? 
Like I can't help but be excited

857
00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:14,700
when other people, you know, 
honor the god that I honor, but 

858
00:52:14,900 --> 00:52:18,000
at the same time, I'm not trying
to recruit anybody because of 

859
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:20,600
that intention. 
I don't want to change, 

860
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:29,000
someone's, someone's will write.
I want the gods to compel you 

861
00:52:29,500 --> 00:52:32,900
rather than me. 
So evangelizing and 

862
00:52:32,900 --> 00:52:35,600
proselytizing, you know, it's 
certainly something that's 

863
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:38,200
really frowned on in witchcraft 
communities. 

864
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:42,200
That whole but also specifically
within the Wiccan religion, 

865
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:46,500
Another term here that I think 
is probably worth connecting on 

866
00:52:46,500 --> 00:52:51,100
is indoctrination. 
So, you know, I don't have any 

867
00:52:51,100 --> 00:52:52,700
children, so I can't really 
speak to this. 

868
00:52:52,700 --> 00:52:59,400
But the idea that if I had kids 
and they were growing up in a 

869
00:52:59,900 --> 00:53:06,100
pagan polytheistic environment, 
would I not intentionally or 

870
00:53:06,100 --> 00:53:08,800
otherwise? 
Potentially indoctrinate them 

871
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:13,000
into my belief system, and I 
think that we all run the the 

872
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:16,900
risk of doing that at all 
points, whether you know, 

873
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:20,100
whatever religion we are, if you
grew up around it, it's going to

874
00:53:20,108 --> 00:53:22,600
be Familiar of course, but I'd 
be interested. 

875
00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:24,900
Kind of like Indiana, you 
sharing your. 

876
00:53:24,900 --> 00:53:27,400
You've talked to me about this 
in the past, but you know, how 

877
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:31,300
do you balance that idea of 
influencing? 

878
00:53:31,300 --> 00:53:36,500
Or maybe educating but not 
actually trying to control or 

879
00:53:36,500 --> 00:53:39,700
limit your children's will 
around these types of topics. 

880
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:43,400
It's definitely this fine line. 
Right. 

881
00:53:43,500 --> 00:53:46,000
Just like we talked about 
blurring of the lines earlier 

882
00:53:46,500 --> 00:53:49,100
and again it goes back to that 
intention, right? 

883
00:53:49,100 --> 00:53:54,500
So when I'm sharing parts of my 
practice, it's not coming from a

884
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:57,300
place of like, this is how we do
things in. 

885
00:53:57,300 --> 00:53:59,300
This is all that's allowed in 
our household. 

886
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:04,400
I think, where we start limiting
Free Will is where we start to 

887
00:54:04,408 --> 00:54:08,200
get into these problematic parts
of a Doctrine ization. 

888
00:54:08,700 --> 00:54:12,700
So, I have really strong 
feelings around things like 

889
00:54:13,900 --> 00:54:20,000
Baptism or like not from the 
aspect of like protection over 

890
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:24,000
this child from my belief 
system, but the idea that you 

891
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:29,200
are making someone part of a 
religion or putting them into 

892
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:33,400
their religion without their 
consent, I think consent is a 

893
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:38,100
huge part of Free Will and to 
ignore one is to negate the 

894
00:54:38,100 --> 00:54:41,100
other. 
And so for me, when I am 

895
00:54:41,100 --> 00:54:45,300
explaining, you know what I do, 
Always try to give the balance, 

896
00:54:45,300 --> 00:54:47,800
right? 
And so when my daughter comes to

897
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:51,200
me with questions about 
Christian beliefs and things 

898
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:53,900
like that, we talked about the 
give and take of those things, 

899
00:54:53,900 --> 00:54:56,800
right? 
Why do they believe this? 

900
00:54:57,100 --> 00:55:01,000
And why do I maybe not agree 
with that but I always put like 

901
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:05,800
the decision-making in her hands
and I always say, you know, this

902
00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:09,700
is what I think but I encourage 
you to learn more about that. 

903
00:55:09,900 --> 00:55:12,400
I encourage you to challenge 
those thoughts. 

904
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:16,100
I Courage you to speak to other 
people about their belief 

905
00:55:16,100 --> 00:55:18,600
systems and to understand where 
that comes from. 

906
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:23,800
I, she has a friend at school 
whose parents only wanted her to

907
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:30,300
have Christian friends, which 
kind of flies in the face of my 

908
00:55:30,300 --> 00:55:35,100
daughter who is not a Christian 
and what openly say that you 

909
00:55:35,108 --> 00:55:38,400
know, they did a holiday thing 
at school and she did you'll 

910
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:44,000
because it's what we celebrate 
at our house and I think her 

911
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:46,200
parents heard about that and 
they're like, well, we don't, we

912
00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:47,600
only want you to have Christian 
friends. 

913
00:55:48,100 --> 00:55:52,600
And what I said to her was, You 
have to understand that 

914
00:55:52,900 --> 00:55:57,000
someone's faith has to be 
fragile, their own belief system

915
00:55:57,000 --> 00:56:01,100
has to be very fragile to 
believe that to just hear the 

916
00:56:01,100 --> 00:56:06,100
opinions of other people is so 
tantalizing, and is so 

917
00:56:06,100 --> 00:56:11,400
potentially Faith breaking that 
they want to Bar you from having

918
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:13,100
friends that are like that, 
right? 

919
00:56:13,100 --> 00:56:17,800
That's where we're crossing. 
That line of Free Will where my 

920
00:56:17,900 --> 00:56:20,100
faith is mine alone. 
Own. 

921
00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:23,400
And I want her faith. 
Her belief, her spirituality to 

922
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:28,700
be hers alone and so I 
encouraged her to really ask 

923
00:56:28,700 --> 00:56:31,300
questions, you know, I'll 
explain everything that I'm 

924
00:56:31,300 --> 00:56:37,600
doing age appropriately to a 
point but I do encourage her to 

925
00:56:38,300 --> 00:56:40,700
also know that this is what 
works for me. 

926
00:56:40,700 --> 00:56:42,600
And this won't necessarily be 
something that works for 

927
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:45,600
everybody and to kind of reach 
out and learn things and 

928
00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:49,500
experience different things 
because my way is not the only 

929
00:56:49,500 --> 00:56:52,200
way. 
There's that just said, Mom. 

930
00:56:52,300 --> 00:56:56,800
Oh my God. 
I know, I try, I try so hard but

931
00:56:56,800 --> 00:57:01,200
but also, you know, this is a, 
for lack of a better term of 

932
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:04,300
pagan and, or potentially 
non-religious household. 

933
00:57:04,300 --> 00:57:07,700
You know, my spouse is not 
religious in any sense of the 

934
00:57:07,700 --> 00:57:13,200
word and so I think she comes 
from this world of like your 

935
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:17,100
belief is your own. 
It doesn't belong to either of 

936
00:57:17,100 --> 00:57:20,300
us and therefore we don't 
instill it in our Children. 

937
00:57:20,700 --> 00:57:22,900
We express our beliefs. 
We talk about our thoughts and 

938
00:57:22,900 --> 00:57:25,500
our beliefs but we don't impress
it upon them. 

939
00:57:26,100 --> 00:57:29,200
Yeah, thanks for sharing that 
very very cool. 

940
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:31,900
Yeah so much different than how 
I grew up. 

941
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:41,500
Okay so I think we saved maybe 
the Spy keas juiciest hot takes 

942
00:57:41,500 --> 00:57:49,400
for last year. 
Okay, so there is I in the last 

943
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:49,900
couple years. 
Years. 

944
00:57:49,900 --> 00:57:52,600
There's been a very productive 
conversation, in my opinion, 

945
00:57:52,800 --> 00:58:01,500
around, Daddy and gods and the 
topic of appropriation, right? 

946
00:58:01,500 --> 00:58:09,500
And so looking at The idea that 
potentially not all gods are 

947
00:58:09,500 --> 00:58:17,300
available to you and what that 
means, I think you will hear in 

948
00:58:17,300 --> 00:58:25,600
every modern book podcasts 
popular opinion that you have to

949
00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:27,600
be very careful around 
appropriation. 

950
00:58:27,600 --> 00:58:31,300
And when it comes to clothes 
practices, right? 

951
00:58:31,300 --> 00:58:35,600
I think that's like the known 
point of view which is is, if 

952
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:39,700
you are not of that culture, 
then you cannot just access 

953
00:58:39,700 --> 00:58:46,500
those Gods because you want to I
don't know if you expand on that

954
00:58:46,500 --> 00:58:47,600
at all Danny. 
Yeah, yeah. 

955
00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:52,100
So I think it's important that 
when we're having these 

956
00:58:52,100 --> 00:58:55,400
conversations that we 
acknowledge that just because 

957
00:58:55,400 --> 00:58:59,600
you want to do something does 
not mean, it gives you freedom 

958
00:58:59,600 --> 00:59:03,800
to do it without one consent, 
right? 

959
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:07,400
Consent is very important, but 
to without knowledge. 

960
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:11,800
So I think a lot of times when 
we're talking about a cultural 

961
00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:15,200
appropriation or 
misappropriation it a lot of Is 

962
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:20,500
coming from a place of, I just 
want to do what I want and to 

963
00:59:20,500 --> 00:59:23,700
hell with the culture and the 
beliefs, and the practices that 

964
00:59:23,700 --> 00:59:25,600
came before me and honoring 
those. 

965
00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:30,700
And that's where we get into 
some really just 

966
00:59:30,700 --> 00:59:34,300
inappropriateness, just just 
really harmful things. 

967
00:59:34,300 --> 00:59:38,500
And so, when we're talking from 
closed practice, you can't just 

968
00:59:38,500 --> 00:59:41,400
decide to initiate yourself into
a closed practice. 

969
00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:45,300
If you are drawn to certain 
deities, T. 

970
00:59:45,500 --> 00:59:49,600
If they are very important to 
you, then go through the right 

971
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:53,400
channels, right? 
Go and find Priestess 

972
00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:56,100
priestesses of that. 
How would you define? 

973
00:59:56,100 --> 00:59:58,700
I mean, just for purposes here 
of debate. 

974
00:59:58,700 --> 01:00:00,400
How would you define closed 
practice? 

975
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:03,700
Like what how does someone know 
if a deity is part of its lowest

976
01:00:03,700 --> 01:00:06,900
practice? 
Mmm, so I would say initiatory 

977
01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:09,400
groups, right? 
So if you are interested in 

978
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:11,700
something, you should be doing a
little bit of research and if 

979
01:00:11,700 --> 01:00:14,600
you find that it's an 
initiative, an initiatory group.

980
01:00:15,100 --> 01:00:19,100
Should be something that is 
obviously a closed practice. 

981
01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:22,600
When we get to things that maybe
don't require initiation 

982
01:00:22,700 --> 01:00:24,900
outright but are more of a 
Birthright thing. 

983
01:00:24,900 --> 01:00:28,400
There are religious groups where
it is by birth. 

984
01:00:28,900 --> 01:00:32,700
And that isn't to say that they 
do not allow anyone who is not 

985
01:00:32,700 --> 01:00:35,900
born into that culture, but it 
does mean that you need to go 

986
01:00:35,900 --> 01:00:38,900
through the appropriate channels
to reach people of those 

987
01:00:38,900 --> 01:00:41,900
cultures and to get essentially 
their consent and approval. 

988
01:00:42,700 --> 01:00:45,800
Now, you and I have had some 
really Important discussions 

989
01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:48,700
about well what if you don't 
know your culture and how does 

990
01:00:48,700 --> 01:00:53,300
reincarnation kind of fit into 
this and the understanding of 

991
01:00:53,300 --> 01:00:59,900
misappropriation. 
Yeah, I mean so To play pans 

992
01:00:59,900 --> 01:01:04,200
Advocate. 
I don't want to say goodbye to 

993
01:01:04,300 --> 01:01:08,200
just provide a contrasting point
of view. 

994
01:01:09,100 --> 01:01:14,200
Oh and you know everybody does 
better when they know better but

995
01:01:15,100 --> 01:01:21,500
I'm sure if I was like, you 
know, a cute little Wiccan lady 

996
01:01:21,500 --> 01:01:24,200
practicing witchcraft in the 
80s. 

997
01:01:24,700 --> 01:01:27,700
I would be so interested in 
Native American guy. 

998
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:34,700
And goddesses and would totally 
find it to be exciting to feel 

999
01:01:34,700 --> 01:01:36,900
like I could connect with those 
goddesses right. 

1000
01:01:36,900 --> 01:01:45,500
Especially because I love all of
my white shame and and I think I

1001
01:01:45,500 --> 01:01:49,500
could justify that right with 
this idea that I believe in 

1002
01:01:49,500 --> 01:01:53,500
reincarnation, so who's to say 
that in past lives, I wasn't 

1003
01:01:53,500 --> 01:01:57,000
Native American and maybe that's
why my spirit is calling. 

1004
01:01:57,900 --> 01:02:00,300
Words, you know, this goddess or
that got us because of my 

1005
01:02:00,300 --> 01:02:04,100
previous lives. 
So if you wanted to justify 

1006
01:02:05,300 --> 01:02:07,800
appropriation of other cultures,
you could use that point of 

1007
01:02:07,808 --> 01:02:11,000
view. 
And I think what is it's really 

1008
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:13,800
easy to throw the baby out with 
the bathwater in this 

1009
01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:17,100
conversation? 
And to say, like if you're not 

1010
01:02:17,100 --> 01:02:21,100
of that culture, you cannot 
access those gods or goddesses 

1011
01:02:21,100 --> 01:02:26,100
or Daddy's in between, right? 
And I think what the pendulum of

1012
01:02:27,100 --> 01:02:32,900
current Station has come back to
is all God's could be 

1013
01:02:32,900 --> 01:02:37,000
potentially available to you so 
long as you go through the right

1014
01:02:37,600 --> 01:02:40,100
channels and you connect with 
people of those cultures, I 

1015
01:02:40,108 --> 01:02:45,800
think also like just to call it 
out the, the biggest taboos here

1016
01:02:46,600 --> 01:02:49,300
when it comes to 
misappropriation, is when you're

1017
01:02:49,300 --> 01:02:53,200
trying to connect with current 
religions, right? 

1018
01:02:53,300 --> 01:02:56,400
That our practice by oppressed 
people, of course. 

1019
01:02:56,400 --> 01:02:58,900
Yeah. 
And especially Especially if you

1020
01:02:58,900 --> 01:03:04,400
are, if your historical 
ancestors just by blood 

1021
01:03:04,400 --> 01:03:07,000
connection, maybe not by 
reincarnation were the 

1022
01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:09,900
oppressors right like that. 
That's usually the biggest issue

1023
01:03:09,900 --> 01:03:15,900
here that we're talking about. 
However, it doesn't mean that it

1024
01:03:15,900 --> 01:03:18,700
is never available to you. 
It's just that you have to show 

1025
01:03:18,700 --> 01:03:22,500
that respect, I don't know. 
I just think it's really 

1026
01:03:22,500 --> 01:03:24,600
interesting. 
Like reincarnation could be a 

1027
01:03:24,600 --> 01:03:27,600
justification as to why you're 
called in a certain direction. 

1028
01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:33,900
But it doesn't give you the 
green light to just go ahead and

1029
01:03:33,900 --> 01:03:36,800
start connecting directly with 
those gods or goddesses. 

1030
01:03:37,600 --> 01:03:39,800
Yeah, it's all about that 
respect piece, right? 

1031
01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:43,800
And so, we have to be very, we 
have to acknowledge that power 

1032
01:03:43,800 --> 01:03:47,000
imbalance where we eat when we 
are approaching the religious 

1033
01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:51,000
and cultural beliefs. 
Particularly of minorities, from

1034
01:03:51,400 --> 01:03:54,900
the perspective of people who 
have kind of been part of a 

1035
01:03:54,900 --> 01:03:58,600
culture that just takes takes 
takes, takes takes To go into 

1036
01:03:58,600 --> 01:04:01,000
this minority culture. 
To go into this minority belief 

1037
01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:03,800
system, and just take what we 
want. 

1038
01:04:04,100 --> 01:04:06,800
We have to understand that that 
is perpetuating history in a 

1039
01:04:06,808 --> 01:04:10,700
very negative way and 
understandably people from those

1040
01:04:10,700 --> 01:04:14,300
minority, religions, minority 
cultures, have very strong 

1041
01:04:14,300 --> 01:04:17,700
feelings about that, right? 
And are finally at least in a 

1042
01:04:17,708 --> 01:04:20,800
place in society. 
Now where we can say like this 

1043
01:04:20,800 --> 01:04:22,900
was wrong and we should stop 
doing that. 

1044
01:04:23,500 --> 01:04:25,900
And so, whenever you're 
approaching these sensitive 

1045
01:04:25,900 --> 01:04:29,100
topics and ever you're 
approaching these Of things it's

1046
01:04:29,100 --> 01:04:32,700
really about the respect. 
And if you are not coming at it 

1047
01:04:32,700 --> 01:04:36,900
from a respectful place and 
respect being doing the proper 

1048
01:04:36,900 --> 01:04:40,100
research going through the right
channels doing the things that 

1049
01:04:40,100 --> 01:04:42,800
you should be doing. 
If this is something you're 

1050
01:04:42,800 --> 01:04:46,000
actually interested in, not 
because you want the cloud or 

1051
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:52,000
not because you want to claim 
indigenous, things are minority 

1052
01:04:52,000 --> 01:04:55,200
things, but because you actually
have a vested interest in it, 

1053
01:04:55,500 --> 01:04:57,700
and as long as you are doing the
things you should be doing, 

1054
01:04:57,800 --> 01:05:01,000
Doing then you should be doing 
it in a respectful way but to 

1055
01:05:01,008 --> 01:05:05,700
just, like, show up and claimed 
to be a voodoo priest because 

1056
01:05:05,700 --> 01:05:09,600
you want to be is just 
inherently problematic. 

1057
01:05:09,600 --> 01:05:12,800
So again, just approach it with 
their appropriate level of 

1058
01:05:12,800 --> 01:05:14,400
respect. 
Yeah. 

1059
01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:24,500
And I think There's a lot of 
fetishizing of exotic - that 

1060
01:05:24,600 --> 01:05:29,300
leads people to feel cold to 
certain deities that are outside

1061
01:05:29,300 --> 01:05:35,200
of their own culture. 
And that's something to question

1062
01:05:35,200 --> 01:05:40,200
about the attraction to certain 
deities is like, are you only 

1063
01:05:40,200 --> 01:05:44,600
attracted to them or potentially
is part of your attraction, 

1064
01:05:44,800 --> 01:05:50,900
because it seems quote-unquote. 
Or not familiar and that's what 

1065
01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:54,300
exciting like is there a like, 
are you being excited? 

1066
01:05:54,300 --> 01:05:58,800
Because it's not what, you know,
and it's novel or you actually 

1067
01:05:58,800 --> 01:06:02,400
connecting with the culture and 
what that deity stands for. 

1068
01:06:02,400 --> 01:06:06,300
So I mean, there's lots of 
discourse around this topic and 

1069
01:06:06,900 --> 01:06:11,700
I think that the net new thing I
want to point out there is that 

1070
01:06:11,700 --> 01:06:14,400
there was, I think, especially a
few years ago, this huge 

1071
01:06:14,400 --> 01:06:18,400
pendulum swing of conversation 
which is like, if you're not of 

1072
01:06:18,400 --> 01:06:20,600
that culture, you don't get to 
play with those Gods, right? 

1073
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:25,700
And that was a response to the 
other side of that Spectrum or 

1074
01:06:25,700 --> 01:06:29,000
the pendulum swing, which is 
like you can play with anybody, 

1075
01:06:29,900 --> 01:06:31,500
right? 
So I think you know, as we 

1076
01:06:31,500 --> 01:06:34,100
talked about it's probably 
somewhere in the center. 

1077
01:06:34,100 --> 01:06:40,500
We're sure you can go ahead. 
If you have put the effort in, 

1078
01:06:40,500 --> 01:06:44,000
you've connected with the 
leaders of that religion, if you

1079
01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:46,800
have gone through as you say the
right channels. 

1080
01:06:46,800 --> 01:06:50,700
But this Isn't a net new point. 
And as I said early, but I think

1081
01:06:50,700 --> 01:06:53,700
the point of reincarnation puts 
an interesting spin on that 

1082
01:06:53,700 --> 01:06:56,700
because maybe you were in a 
previous life connected. 

1083
01:06:56,700 --> 01:06:59,700
And that's why you are being 
attracted as a point of view. 

1084
01:06:59,700 --> 01:07:00,900
So yeah. 
All right. 

1085
01:07:00,900 --> 01:07:03,900
Well, we have, we've talked 
Danny. 

1086
01:07:03,900 --> 01:07:07,900
We are, we did it again. 
We never shut the fuck up. 

1087
01:07:10,800 --> 01:07:15,400
It's as if we drank a whole 
glass of iced coffee before him,

1088
01:07:17,200 --> 01:07:21,500
And have been secretly. 
Gulping off camera and off 

1089
01:07:21,500 --> 01:07:25,300
microphone because of all the 
phlegm we have built up doing 

1090
01:07:25,300 --> 01:07:31,600
said activity. 
Alright. 

1091
01:07:31,600 --> 01:07:35,900
Well I think this is probably as
good a place as any to wrap it 

1092
01:07:35,900 --> 01:07:39,100
up. 
All right so of course so which 

1093
01:07:39,100 --> 01:07:42,600
is we hope that you have really 
enjoyed this discourse. 

1094
01:07:42,600 --> 01:07:46,500
We hope that we have helped kind
of connect some dots death. 

1095
01:07:46,600 --> 01:07:49,100
Really want to hear what other 
dots you want us to help 

1096
01:07:49,100 --> 01:07:53,100
connector, or what thoughts, we 
can help kind of expand upon. 

1097
01:07:53,100 --> 01:07:56,400
So, please wherever you're 
listening to this, let us know 

1098
01:07:56,400 --> 01:08:00,400
what you're thinking. 
And then also, as always blessed

1099
01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:04,700
be witches and be well, I like 
you