Do it Danny. I'm here with Oak and I'm Danny
and we're here to bring you our very first episode of this
podcast. We do you want to give us a
little intro about yourself. Yes I do.
Thanks for asking I'm Oak my pronouns.
Are she her? And I think we're going to go
through and do these little bits of intro these sections and we
can go back and forth so we Don't talk too long.
If that works for you Danny. Yeah, let's do it.
So I am an aspiring astrological Guru.
I am currently novice because I don't think that anyone actually
even considers themself a grew in astrology, feel like everyone
feels like they're novice, but I am definitely a novice, but my
big three signs would be sad. Son, Scorpio moon in Scorpio
Rising. So I feel like that puts me
somewhere in the Outgoing yet esoteric a cult minded space
somewhere like you take Wednesday from Wednesday, the TV
show, most recently done Wednesday and her roommates.
You put those two together I feel like that would give you a
sense of my point of view. But what about you Daddy?
Yeah. So I am a mom of two real life
which my kind of thing is that I really do a lot of like folk
magic and stuff. So astrology is definitely not
in my wheelhouse. Think it's amazing, think it's
great but my big three astrological signs.
I'm a cancer. Son.
Don't all collectively side together and Aquarius Moon, and
a Leo rising. And so I think for me, Me those
things kind of show up as somebody who is both really
empathetic towards other people. Really seek to know, and
understand but also very, let's get things moving.
Let's do something big. Let's do something really great
and I tend to be a chatterbox. So that's me in a nutshell.
I, yeah, I concur. That is absolutely you as I know
you. We've known each other for One
plus years that right? Yeah.
That's right.
On par. Yeah.
I guess. I guess we should have had it
anniversary. Oh my gosh, we didn't even like
take each other out or anything. Oh, I'll get you flowers next
time. I see you.
I think that we can go into the spiritual, maybe self
identifiers. It's weird to put yourself in a
box because, you know, no one wants to live in a box.
Of isolation or segmentation because we were ever evolving
ever-changing people, but I think it's at least helpful for
us to Define kind of where we're starting from.
In this conversation, can you hear my squeaky as chair?
I did hear a little squiggly. I, I like, I like antique
furniture if you can't tell. So if I collapsed to the ground,
that's my six-year-old chair even out.
Okay. So spiritual boxes Definitely
identify as Pagan which is a super large umbrella term.
As we know, I would say that I'm a hard polytheist and that, I
believe in multiple gods, not a monotheistic point of view and I
believe in many gods. And I believe that they are
actually real entities that exist somewhere in some space.
And I think we've talked about this Danny where it's like, very
He much American Gods illustrates my point Angela
where I think? Yeah, everybody's gods are real
to them, whatever you think's going to happen to you after you
die. That's what happens to you.
So, that's where I'm at. I am a currently Seeker on a
traditional Wiccan path and so we'll talk more about that.
But yeah, that's, that's where that's the Box.
I'd put myself in. Where would you put yourself?
Yeah, I think you and I are kind of in the same Realms, so I'm
definitely Pagan and I do kind of believe in this hard
polytheism in the sense that I think the energy that has been
put into things kind of that American.
God, belief is has created, these entities whether
intentional or not and I really love.
I guess. From that same perspective, the
idea that like a god in one place, may not be the same.
Kind of personality that that God has an another place
depending on how they're worshipped, how their venerated
you know, all of those things. And I do also I guess have kind
of a pantheist view on things. I think there is a spiritual
sense to all things. I think we're not like here by
happenstance I guess. So I don't believe in like a
One, true God or anything like that, but I think everything has
a Divinity to it and I am also a seeker and a traditional Wicked
path. Yeah.
This is where we reveal that were in and out of court
together or we want secret. Okay.
I think, I just don't know a better time to do it since we're
going to probably keep referencing that so yeah, let's
do. Yeah, yeah.
So Oak and I are in an outer Court together, currently for a
garden Aryan, outer core. Or and it has been an absolute
pleasure to do this process with her.
I was mortified when I started, it was just me because everyone
else is so much further along and like, they had way better
ideas of what was going on and then didn't Danny.
And then oak came in and she, oh my God, revealed, we're also not
using her. Real name's Danny, there's so
many Secrets being revealed In the first episode.
What are we doing? We're terrible at keeping
secrets. Literally, the worst would be
worse. Yeah.
So Oak and I are in the same
outer Court together for a garden area and path and I am
just so thankful that she is going down this road with me.
I think when I first joined the outer Court, it was literally
just me. I was the only secret and that
was a very awkward. I really Thrive with Alien ship,
it's probably my cancer sun. And so, I was really excited
when they told me that somebody else was kind of joining the
group and that we'd be kind of running this process along.
Side, each other parallel to each other, and it has been
phenomenal to be going through this process with Oak.
Yeah, I think we should talk more about that for sure.
I think that's a worthy topic to talk about like the connections
that you build an outer court. And yeah, Special delivery to
your wonderful. Okay, let's do this.
Tell me if you want to kind of keep going on the topic here of
like, yeah, your spiritual past and like what kind of brought
you to Witchcraft Wicca paganism, all of that species.
So I hear I am originally from a pretty Christian Appalachian
Family. Ali.
So my family has this kind of weird.
We don't talk about it, but we all acknowledge it thing where
very few people in my family would call themselves, outwardly
witches. But so many of them are, in
fact, practitioners they would call themselves superstitious.
Not a little stitches, but superstitious totally.
Yeah. But like, it's, I didn't realize
tells older that it was very abnormal to like, It in your
mouth water. Like the rest of the world's not
doing that, but that's very normative where my family is
from. My grandmother is a witch that
unfortunately I don't have a lot of connection with because she
is also severely mentally ill. And so that piece of her is
really kind of lost to me. My aunt is also a witch and
outwardly, would call herself a witch and then my other aunt is
again just superstitious And that's really kind of where I'm
from. I grew up in a, not very
Christian home. My mom from her childhood
experiences has come just rejected, religion in general
because of kind of how she grew up and issues with her mother
and so I really began delving into more mainstream witchcraft
kind of deciding that maybe the Falk way was maybe not the
normative way about three years ago and Then have kind of gone
down this more traditional path, about two years ago with
traditional Wicca and then have now kind of come full circle
into folk magic and coming back around to the roots and what
kind of currently speaks to me and then I'm currently seeking
initiation and the same outer Court as Oak.
That's such a cool story. You're so cool.
You know, but what's going on with you?
Okay, tell me your background. Give it to us.
What do we need to know about you?
Yeah, well, I definitely group Southern Baptist.
My grandmother was a born again, Christian as she was recovering
from alcoholism. And so she definitely, you know,
At the bottle and turn to Jesus and she was super devout.
So I think that's really where I got my initial exposure to
religion in general and so definitely have read the Bible
multiple times in that space. Think that there's a lot of
interesting things in the Bible that are useful and then I would
say, probably the next piece was that I went to Catholic school,
which I was like, super excited about because it was in the 90s
and the crap came out and They were uniforms and it looks real
cute. So I went to Catholic school for
a few years. Loved all of the drama.
Love, the end sense. Love the choreographed bits of
it and all the holy water and all those good witchy things.
Um, and yeah, and then my mom became born again as well.
And so, she actually started attending a non-denominational
church, which was It's so interesting.
They call it Dawn to nomination. I think it's just because it's
like, just take the extreme version of Christianity and it's
that. Um, so they would like to speak
in tongues and it was very intense.
It was very like either you're for God, or you're against God,
and they had strict lines in the sand about what was good and
what was bad. So it was a really interesting
point of view to see kind of that religious zealousness and
then on the other end of the spectrum, you know, my dad is
super atheist and I would Was put them on the spectrum of like
being nihilist. I'd love to get into those
definitions and another point because I think there's, you
know, from pantheist to acknowledge sticked atheist.
It's think there's a lot of definitions there.
And I love a definition because my burger is in Capricorn, but I
won't bore us with those definitions.
But yeah, I mean I grew up in the 90s because true girl is
over 40 and so in the 90s witchcraft was, you know,
Obviously a topic of pop culture and but I think it also just
really sparked a general interest in religion.
So like Buddhism. And I mean even Christianity, I
think it's really interesting. There's a lot of beautiful
truths in it so I am always because of all of my Scorpio
placements been looking for the answers you know and what's
hidden. But I started exploring Wicca
via a uu Church uu Church you Nazarian.
Universalist probably like in the early aughts and I stayed
with them for like a half a year or so and then I ended up moving
to another place and that wasn't really on my radar anymore.
But I circled back around, you know, I don't know ten years
later and found my way into like an outer court that was also in
a traditional path. It's more of a offshoot of
garden. Aryan wicked witch but not going
Aryan and learned a lot from Um, that group a ton really.
The outer Court was super educational base, lot, like
hours and hours of teaching. So I learned so much from that
group, the group kind of included as they do from time to
time and so that I ended up being solitary for another
couple of years and I had actually reached out to our high
priest and who runs our outer Court. kind of the start of the
pandemic but of course the pain demek happened and so I didn't
really pursue it and so I really was I think doing like Outreach
to our HP for probably a year before we actually ended up
meeting and doing the initial interview if you will to see if
I'm worthy of meeting the other court and So that is, yeah, I
mean it was really solid of 2021 that I started with the outer
court and you were what was was it Beltane for you?
Was it? When did you start with it was
right at? Yeah, it was right at Beltane.
Hmm, okay. I guess it's that was 20 21 for
you than it would have been a 2021 for me.
Yep. Yeah, I think I really started
focusing back on the craft and practicing it.
Oh, I guess it would be six years.
Now it was there was an astrological event actually that
I use to Mark the occasion, which we can talk more about
that. Yeah, so that's that's what led
me here. I'd be interested.
I think the next thing that we said that we wanted to talk
about was, you know, what are you currently obsessed with?
I think obviously a lot of this podcast is going to be
influenced by what selfishly we want to talk about and what we
want to nerd out about. So that's probably useful.
So what are you focusing on right now Danny what's here with
your current Obsession? Yeah so I think you know as part
of this kind of coming full circle thing, I really am coming
back to the folk magic pieces and trying to like really delve
into like, where did these practices come from?
Where did they originate? How did they kind of meld
together to become what they are and Appalachian?
Oh, and so that is like, my current obsession is trying to
find kind of the roots of some of These quote-unquote
superstitions and these, you know, cures for the
superstitions and that's kind of my new obsession is reading
everything. I could get my hands on which is
also surprisingly little for this area.
There's, there's a lot about folk magic out there, but very
little about Appalachia, as a whole and like how these
practices kind of came to be. So that's a big focus of mine
right now as someone who cooks a lot, A lot and also has celiacs
and so can't eat a lot of things.
I am really into kitchen witchery.
I do a lot of cooking, and so I think it was just kind of a
natural offshoot of both folk magic and needing to cook a lot.
And being a witch that I kind of have gotten into this kitchen
witchery Vibe lately, but then also just ritual ization.
I think as you and I are working through an outer core, just
really finding like purpose in. I think a lot of times it's you
get into this, just do it. We're like okay, I've got the
materials and I got, you know, some words and I just just need
to do the thing. And then at the end you can be
really kind of dissatisfied with the way that it went because you
haven't really thought through all the pieces and thought
through the. Why am I using this?
Do I like this verbage it does this really speak to me?
Makes sense to me and definitely something we talk about in a
future podcast is you know if it doesn't make sense it's probably
not going to be Your best working.
So it has to make sense to you as to really work for you.
For it to work. For instance, spell jars for the
purpose of manifesting things don't work for me because they
logistically, don't make sense to me.
Totally. I would you bottle up something
that you want to work that you want to put out there that you
want to create and and multiply and it for me mentally.
It doesn't make sense and that's why they don't work for me.
So really Delving into ritual ization and what did the things
mean and how does it show up in my workings Oak?
What are you obsessed with right now?
Well, I'm obsessed with you the whole time.
I wanted to be like a huh? Yep.
Oh my gosh, that's so cool. But I don't think that that
actually translates well in this medium.
But yeah, I mean, I've definitely benefited from all of
your kitchen, which Focus cause I also need to be gluten-free.
I'm certainly not. A Celiac Spectrum, but I also
would identify as needed to be gluten-free.
And so I've have benefited multiple times from your your
baking and cooking and delicious.
So there's that. I support you and your kitchen
witchery. I, yeah, obviously, the ritual
construction and, and thinking about, you know, how to create
ritual and space, that makes sense to me, you know, I think,
Right now, obviously, we are in the outer Court.
Practicing Ritual from that point of view, I think I'm also
trying to preserve, you know, a personal practice within that
space and continue to hold onto like my triggers of what I keep
personal. So ritual construction, just,
you know, learning the outer Court Danny's experiences, but
I'm like, somebody that needs Needs to know the meaning of
every word. And why are we saying that
versus this? And so really microscope level
evaluation of ritual. And then, as I already said
astrology, I mean, between those two things I could spend a
lifetime. So, but yeah, I mean, I think of
those right now astrology being such a big topic and one that
I've avoided for so long. Taking up most of my my study
yeah yeah I totally agree can concur that you do need to break
things apart into all of its pieces.
But that is also what I love about you because you like force
me to ask questions. I would not normally have even
thought to ask because I'm like, I don't know.
Just that's just how I do it. That's just how it's which is
also just in my nature with folk magic like somebody is passed it
down to me and said, this is why we do it.
And I'm like, Wait, maybe I should be asking why.
So I do love that about you is that you really forced me to
look at things and be like, are we just doing this?
Because someone said we should, are we doing this?
Because it makes sense for the working and I'm like, you have
really excellent points. You really excellent points
there. I, you know, I didn't take that
point of view like that makes such that makes so much sense,
right? Like your background of folk
magic being like the information that's being passed down to you.
Is a gift. So, like, don't question the
gift just kind of like accept it and work with it and I didn't
make that connection. That's really interesting.
Yeah, I mean for me I'm just like I wouldn't say I'm like
rebellious and I don't think I am like I pushed back against
tradition obviously because I'm like seeking a traditional path.
But I definitely am somebody who questions because I've benefited
and been, I think praise honestly for questioning things,
I've not really kept myself in places where questioning
something is a bad thing. I think we're in a place in
society where we know that like when people question things,
It's not a bad thing. It's it's actually them seeking
to understand something on a deeper level.
So they I'm a pain in the ass, but I really like somebody
people way. Okay good.
Yes, I love it so much. No, absolutely.
I think, you know, it just develops like further
understanding. And that's what I really
appreciate. Like, when you do push back on
things and I'm like, yeah, no, I exactly see what you mean and
where you're coming from. And so I that's one of the
things I really love about working.
I'm with you is that your brain just works in a different way
than mine? Where most will be like oh well
we just we just don't work the same way and I'm like, no, I
love that so much because it really just gives me this full
perspective of things. And really makes me think about
things on a deeper level and really delve into those things
kind of trying to match your brain power and where you're at.
And so it kind of forces me to think about things in a
different way and kind of broaden my horizons.
No, thank you. I feel I still seen and accepted
I think like, We're totally attracted to each other
magically. We have we have magic crushes on
each other. Yeah, I'm just always inspired
by so I have explained everything through astrology.
So I have my, my North Node is in cancer, right?
Which is your son. So the nurturing side of you and
how you thrive in relationships, like not just one relationship
at multiple relationships. Chips.
And the fact that you're just so nurturing is really really
interesting to me because that's like just not who I am.
I generally have like, really intense individual
relationships. I wouldn't describe myself as
nurturing to everyone. Like no one would ever call me
nice and no, I mean, but it's cool because I'm not, that's not
my goal in life is to be likeable.
My goal is to be meaningful, right?
And so, and I think that your Organic accepting an approach to
the practice is probably a really good bit of chill to my
intensity and also not that anybody will ever see this
through this medium. But I have really enjoyed
watching you move in circle. And when you've been doing like,
the high priestess things, you have really beautiful hand
movements. I just want to say I've a hand
crush on how you present not to make you like self.
Aware and therefore nervous in the spaces but you move
beautifully move like a dancer. You know, I several people have
told me that I have dancers feet.
I really just think it's because I have child size feet but no
one's ever said that to me. So people are like, oh wow, you
have a soccer player feet. There is a lot of Fine motor
skills and dexterity required for that, though.
So bergna, fair. I'm gonna, I'm definitely a
jock. You're definitely, you know, the
pretty truly an artist. So I'm here for it.
It's good balance, right? That's exactly what we're here
for. Life is all about balance.
I'm a firm believer in that, love it.
So I thought to continue. So we have an intro episode
where we enter it ourselves, which makes sense.
I thought we would take the Inception step.
Further and have a podcast reviewing other podcast.
Clearly there is a really healthy community of witchy
podcasters out there. And I'm certainly not trying to
necessarily fill in any missing space, in the, which cast sphere
of reality there. I think we have a lot of things
already covered. Selfishly, the reason that I'm
wanting to Do this podcast is to hold myself accountable.
I am as Gretchen Rubin, would describe a holder where if I
have to deliver information to other people, it actually helps
me have ownership over it and it helps motivate me.
So I see this as kind of a motivation, but I wanted to call
out all of my Inspirations and the podcast that I have really
enjoyed and honestly I assume that will be referencing and
paying homage Zh / stealing things from other podcasts as,
you know, as any good artist. Does you steal?
What works? And so I think we'll be playing
some of these things into our own structure.
So I wanted us to talk through that.
I know that you are an avid podcast consumer.
Mmm. Yeah, I definitely believe one
in Reckoning these things away. There just is, like you said so
much good media out there. And so many Frameworks that are
really do. Appreciate, of course, things
out there that I think we all hate.
Shout out to ads directly in the middle of someone speaking, but
there are so many things that I do love that are out there and I
would like to, you know, call out some of those those great
spaces that exist. So for me, first one, I've got
up here one of my absolute favorites.
I mean, I could gush about these guys all day long.
I feel like a socially, we are BFFs.
They just they don't know it. Yet.
But I love coffee and culture ins.
Okay? It is one of those things that I
turn on, on my way home when I just need to unwind for my day
and just have like two great hosts who are just going to
laugh at each other and have a great time and kind of give me
little insights into their brains at the moment.
But that podcast is ran by Robin Valentin.
She's the author of magical Taro and Maria.
The Arcane, they are both tarot readers which I think is awesome
because of Who dabbles in Tarot, but is definitely not at that
level. I just like, seeing how their
brains work in relation to those cards and two different decks
and all of that. They also in kind of the
structure of their episodes. They cover a tarot card each
episode along with the current astrological kind of placement
at that moment. And then also this lovely little
section called what stirring your cauldron, which I really
love because they really kind of call out what's happening in the
which sphere right now and what is not, so great in our
community but also what is wonderful.
And the kind of uplifting those ideas.
And then they also do the segment at the end about shops
and artists and art that they're loving.
And these are completely like non-paid for advertisements and
recommendations. These are just things that
they've kind of organically found out there that they're
like, hey, take a look at this and I have found so many other
great witches. Many other great shops.
So many other avenues of like art and creativity through that
that got to pay homage to that. Because I really appreciate how
much they kind of broaden, my, which Horizons totally.
I totally had to start. Yeah, I had to start following
them when you mentioned them because I think I had found them
early on and follow them on instead I somehow they just kind
of got out of my algorithm on Spotify, that's where I consume
all of my Podcast. The I started listening to them
and I do really love that story in the coldren that segment and
they're in their podcast and they do have such a lovely I
think compliment back and forth. The fact that they're both tarot
readers, reviewing Taro is what I really appreciate.
I yeah I totally understand the idea of using a podcast as of
like a way of forcing yourself to study things because I think
we'll probably do that but I really Free sheet, you know,
people who are veterans at something who have been doing
it, you know, for more than five years and even make money off of
these things, bringing their Points of View to a deep dive,
right? Like how many episodes Have you
had like novice intro. I'm not going either baby which
because I find that offensive but you know folks that are
definitely would not identify as professionals talking about
tarot to for me it's like I don't need to know what Asus me
and I don't need Need to know what the suit of Cups means.
Like I appreciate a deeper dive, so thanks for reminding me about
coffee. And cauldrons, of course, of
course. I think I'm gonna kind of ping
pong over to you, what? Okay, one of your podcast that
you're obsessed with. Okay.
So we're going to do like no particular order and I thought
it was really cool too because when I'm looking at your list on
the show notes Here we only had one that overlapped which will
have to get to but the first I think podcast That I found
myself just super excited about number one, going through all of
the episodes. I think she was already on like
season two. So there was a number of
backlogged episodes, I could consume but was Pam Grossman.
So she's the author of seeking know she's author of which wave
and shit. I didn't even forget to actually
see the title of her book off to find it on my shelves while
you're talking, but she is. Is she's out of New York.
So she has that amazing like New York, sensibility.
That's like totally to the point.
However, she is and was really influential and the New York art
scene and cultivating kind of The Craft artists points of
view. She speaks about really amazing
artist and has content creators and witches and people who are
maybe slightly outside of that Spectrum, but play into the
archetype of the, which she talks a lot about the The which
archetype so she also brings in like writers and musicians.
She's just, I think tapping into a really great space in art, the
cross-section of Art and Witchcraft and oh my gosh, this
woman is So eloquent and how such a beautiful speaking voice
and it's like all the things that I just won't be ever as a
podcaster. And so I definitely have a total
crush on her speaking voice and the Cadence, at which she speaks
and how she mean, she's clearly a writer and how she strings
together words. So it's been really fun to
follow her on her journey because she's now a full-time,
you know, content. Creator wears before she had
initially started with a day job.
And so it's been interesting just at, just to watch her grow
and to read her book. She actually fun, fact did some
Consulting work on the new craft.
Oh yeah. Right.
Yeah. So maybe.
If we ever get to talk with her I'll be like two steps removed
from the craft was crap really like living out your childhood
dream. Truly.
Oh my God oh my God, I'd be so amazing.
Yeah. All right.
What about you? What's your next one?
So the next one I have up is invoking witchcraft.
So Jay Alan Cross the author of American brujeria.
And Britain, Boyd, the author of her brain book.
Just recently came out Earth which they host that podcast.
If I really kind of fell in love with it because they have this
focus on folk magic Earth. Magic magic from different
Teachers. And then also some Epsilon
episodes that are kind of outside of the Witchcraft box.
I think there's an episode about Bigfoot and they're like, so
there's some other stuff in there to kind of keep you love
that did. Yeah, you know and some
different things. However, heads up that they did
just recently announced kind of the end of their podcast which
is very sad for me Britain Boyd recently had a baby and a jail
crosses kind of getting into some new projects and so they've
decided to kind. Kind of not create any more
episodes, however, they're leaving up all their previous
episodes. So there's still all of this
value, an done all of these episodes.
That really, you know, just keep it fun.
Keep it light. I think they come from two
different ends of the Witchcraft spectrum and I really just
appreciate hearing their different points of view on
things and how those points of view, kind of crisscross and
intersect. I have not started listening to
all of their episodes and I totally appreciate.
Like the idea of, you know, when you start a podcast, there's
obviously a pretty big commitment and, you know, if you
recently had a child or you're going to have a child, like the
idea of trying to do both of those things.
Well, it seems to me quite difficult.
So I love just the acknowledgement of like, hey,
the place of my life has changed.
And therefore, I'm going to change and not Holding yourself
to previous decisions. Love that.
That's so real. And so true.
We have to do that all the time in our own practice.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I love that.
Okay. What I did find that for you
yeah, I found I was looking through my library here.
If you could hear me creaking around waking the which is Pam,
Grossman's book, it's so stupid. Good.
It talks about, you know, all of the which archetypes and pop
culture. So highly recommended have you
read that one? No, I haven't.
I have to add it. Okay, NeverEnding Library list I
never stopped reading literally never.
Okay, I mean I hear you and but I'm like just go ahead and make
an endorsement that it should move to the top of your list
because it's so easy to read. I am a person that struggles
often with reading like hard old-school, old-fashioned paper
ebooks and I totally read this whole thing cover to cover like
in a week which is unheard of for me I'm definitely.
An audiobook connoisseur. So but yes can't speak.
Highly enough about him. Grossman also, I'm in sales.
Have you tell I'm like totally selling you Grossman like, let
me tell you why you should upgrade actually do the
hardcover version. Let me like, what would be your
objection here to reading this book?
Let me go ahead and address your concerns at any rate.
So, and I next one that again, I think this is the same.
I haven't seen Vibe here like, when I started to listen, This
podcast, I got into the space where I was just excited for
them to have their releases. I think that they do this,
maybe, bi-weekly or weekly. I'm not sure.
The I can't remember the frequency, but is bonfire
Babble. Had you heard of this one?
I have heard of it but I have not picked it up yet.
Okay, so what's really funny is this one, and the next one that
I talked about, they have this Dynamic that's created between
kind of like a younger older which I Not that much age
difference, but there's very different personalities.
One's kind of more maternal and the other person is less
maternal. And I don't know if hey, I've
never seen that compilation of people before ever.
I yes, yes. So Corey and data they live in
Seattle. First thing that I love that
they do is they do land acknowledgements?
Which we're going to steal, right?
We talked about that, 100%. Yeah, I think it is.
So, Involved that we are continuing to address the fact
that we're on Stolen land and that we benefit from this idea
of, you know, putting ization, we owned property which is just
a nonsensical idea, which is all problematic.
I think we both probably cried out of out of Shame and and
pain. We read braiding Sweetgrass,
right? Just wait guilt all day.
But yeah. So if we can just at least
acknowledge that we have you know we're on land that was
populated and cared for by other folks it comes out, it's really
meaningful and we're going to do that.
The other thing that I like is that the both I think have a
passion for storytelling and see that as like a spiritual
practice and how that can definitely add magic to your
life. They're also like beautiful
trained. Calista have this intro song,
where they both sing together, the song that they wrote.
And every time it comes on, I totally singing along with them,
which I assume that they know that that happens.
But if they don't, well, I hope they listen to this because I
totally am singing along with them.
We are not doing that to be clear right now that God around.
Yeah, Zero Tolerance in the singing Spirit.
The the other thing that they do, I really like is they do
great book, reviews, like book reviews, where they're not
trying to give you every point. But I think they're they're
pulling out the most meaningful points.
And I think that generally reflects things that I have also
taken away from books, that they've reviewed that I've also
read. So I really appreciate that.
And they also, I think point out the references, like, oh,
they're clearly pulling from from this reference and talk
about the things that are potentially problematic or just
a point of view, not fact, Love their book reviews and there's
also this other interesting thing that's going on which is
Cory is going through, you know, she's in the time of her life
where she's having a lot of Transitions and I think having a
public experience of what those transitions are like trying to
find boundaries and just create the life that is most healthy
for her and she like shares about that.
So I love that that she's like being vulnerable and sharing her
Of path and data is she has these fits of the feminine rage
over like social issues. And I'm just so here for it.
Dad saying she goes from talking, like I love talking
with trees and she's like death to the oppressors and I'm just
like, it's such a change of speed from like, her normal tone
to like, then her angst-filled rage fits.
It's amazing. So yeah, highly represent
bonfire Babble. They do really fun segments to
we're like, they start off with a topic where they go through
the citations of a topic. They also then get into the
actual content. So citations or major.
I mean, making sure that you're clear around who you're
referencing and where you got information to, then Empower
readers or listeners to find their find, the content that
they themselves can get to the source.
Us and not just take your interpretation of that I think
is super important and we have a responsibility to do that so
leather citations. Yeah.
Yeah I love when people like note where they getting stuff
from because so many times I've been like that is literally
contrary to what I know or what I've read and so then I can be
like oh I see where you're going with this.
Okay I can see what you mean. Yeah so I really really
appreciate when people like cite your work essentially you know
let's go back to ninth grade high school.
Let's just say we're we're getting it from so that we can
have he'll be more educated. Give credit where credit's due.
You don't have to be the first person to think of something to
then leverage it. Like there's beautiful ideas out
there and so long as we give shout outs to the creators and
then also give access to that original content.
I mean, that's kind of what we're doing here, right?
We're going to steal some shit from other podcasters, but we're
going to say, yeah, where it came from.
So love that, what's next on the list.
Oh yeah. So I have Which Wednesday's with
Steph and Tara originally started with both co-host and
then now they've kind of moved to where stuff is really like
running the show Tara makes appearances but then staff also
has other people kind of come on.
They are two witches who are also lawyers and their regular
day today. So that is a very interesting
perspective. I think to have two people who
have this very working within the beauty that is the American
justice system and Kind of been also working within the system
of paganism of Witchcraft and it's just really interesting to
see. Two people kind of coming from
those two different Playing Fields, find each other one and
be so like not the same, they're very kind of perpendicular to
each other and the way they kind of, really beautifully mesh
together and they also have really what I really appreciate
about their podcast. When I originally came to it was
they start Art very beginner. So they start with very like,
these are your tools. What is salt?
Why do we use it? Basic astrology, Concepts basic
divination Concepts and then as time has gone on, they've really
built and built and built. So if you followed them from the
beginning, you've really like built.
This base knowledge that has gone from foundational to now,
being a lot more abstract to really like pulling Together
loosens and really building something different and I just
love that I love, you know, being able to kind of follow a
podcast from its Inception and from its starting point.
And then that relationship really developing over time to
really build out something unique, but also a lot deeper on
a lot deeper level. What that there's some we should
maybe do an episode on attorney which is that this just sparked
an idea for me. Like I have a few folks that I
know are influential which is in the space that, you know, maybe
have been in the space since the 70s.
Yeah, I love about love about attorney which here for it.
Right. Yeah absolutely.
Okay so for me Which space is the next one to talk about.
We have Gemini and Scorpio again.
There's like the nurturing mom and the and the more like Brash
to the point opinionated not interested in being identified
as being nice personality. Which, you know, I can begin to
ever heard of that, that compilation.
Oh my gosh, I love it. And they're they're located in
the Hudson Valley. So we get this really great.
Don't know that it's Jersey or New York and I know that there's
a major difference and some people are going to be triggered
by me. Not even knowing the difference,
but I know Scorpio has that amazing accent.
I'm just, I love and so it scorpion Jim and I are there the
to co-host and again they do amazing book reviews and they've
been at it for a minute, so they have I think just a lot of
maturity in the content that they bring and their
relationship is clearly developed.
So, So I've been you know, following them forever, they
talk a lot about paradigms. They nerd out on the recent
episode about the kind of overlap of psychology in
Witchcraft and how young was a contemporary of Gerald Gardner.
My bum. I was like, oh shit, they were
worth the same time. They were referencing each other
like you love that. So yeah.
So they are I think one of them is a scientist.
I think the other ones a teacher or once a scientist, teacher at
any rate there, wonderful, brilliant humans and I love
their podcast. Nice nice.
The next one I have up is one of those that I think is just a
little bit more. The wall and listen, I love
things that challenge my perspective.
I love things that are like very different from who I am or
different, from the way my mind works.
And so, this podcast is the real witches of the end times hosted
by mana mana aelin. And the thing that I love about
them is they are just so authentically, informal and just
whatever comes to mind, that's what they're going to say.
And I love that. So they are also at are Rito
reader. Most of their episodes have a
guest that has some kind of different specialty that they
kind of use that episode to both educate.
And like broaden people's understanding of that topic and
those topics range from like my gosh, possession to
ghost-hunting to werewolf like subculture, like just all over
the place and I love it so much. The episode titles are just like
a clip of the actual episode itself, and it's just like a
verbage from that. So you really don't know what
you're clicking on. Exactly.
Unless you read the sub notes and I just love it so much.
I love things that like are just kind of off the wall and let me
kind of get my Wheel of Fortune knowledge together, you know,
just random whatever comes to mind.
I she ate them so much and I really enjoy like logging in to
the next episode and not having any idea what rollercoaster I'm
about to be on. That's so fun.
I love about I love that person's name.
Say that again, it's Manna what's management.
So they don't normally use their last.
Well, what's listed as a last name aelon they just hey, it's
Mana. So as I was typing that was
like, I don't know if I've ever heard them, say their last name.
So hopefully, aylan is correct. If not, you can totally come on
our podcast. An amazing nail us.
Yes. Come to clarify your name for us
and I actually, you know, peeking Your notes before this
episode, I had not heard a single episode of this podcast
so I had to check it out on my walk this morning and they had I
chosen episode again not knowing what it was going to be about.
But Pennsylvania, Dutch magic, did you hear that episode?
Yes. Oh my gosh, so cool.
I didn't even realize that the Pennsylvania.
Dutch. Were not Dutch, right?
So interesting. Yeah, so interesting.
Yeah, I love that. I love having a totally new
point of view. On some topics.
And yeah, I'm certainly I'm not a fantasy person.
I'm not, like I'm not, it's I know that's polarizing.
Like I'm not here for Lord of the Rings.
You might have heard people. I know, I know, but so I'm like,
hmm, werewolves? I feel resistance, but maybe,
that means, I should listen to it, right?
Yeah. Like I, you know, it's just not
something I've ever picked up and honestly on my own of my own
choosing, I don't know. I would pick it up, but kind of
loving that podcast has kind of been, like, well, let me just,
let me just hear it. We're just here at someone has
to say about it. Let me just see how.
And then I learn all this stuff that I'm like, cool.
Well, at least now I have that again, foundational knowledge,
that if somebody is like, I'm really into werewolf mythology,
cool. Let me tell you everything that
I've learned from my friend Mana here and there guess, right?
Yeah, and I think it's too, it's often like I can hear a message
more easily. If I, I trust the person who's
delivering the message and I think that this person is a
Smart Cookie who's presenting with percent some interesting
facts and I love that. Yeah.
Okay, so I'm going to go to the next one.
Again, these are in no particular order, this podcast
comes out very infrequently which, you know, as somebody who
can see this being a daunting task, I can understand why they
would want to not. Try to over-deliver.
Frequency of their podcast, but this one is which with books.
And so the primary presenter is Jason Mann Ki and the host
Meghan Rosen. Breyer, I believe is how you say
their last name they are two very learned' which is Jason is
a prolific author for Llewellyn and is just constantly writing
and Meg is also, I believe she's even lie.
A librarian if I want to misquote that, somebody can fact
check me, I can come back and edit this if that's not true.
But so they have a just review books, they talk about, you
know, different seasons book. Releases what new books are?
They talk about some neighboring authors on and talk about their
works and their points of view. And so yeah, if I can get, like,
hyped up about a book and like know where the authors coming
from and their point of view and know like Where those points of
view, contrast and get other people's thoughts on the book
before I even approach a book, I feel like it's easier for me to
dive into the content. And because I'm so questioning
about everything, like, well, where'd you get that?
What's your citation, is that your opinion?
Is that a fact, right? Like all of those things are
always going through my brain. When I'm reading a book, being
able to have a kind of intro to the book before I read, it is
really useful. So I just I really love this
podcast and I've read many a new book that I would have not
otherwise known about because of them so love it.
JC I think he's also a really fun author in a really
approachable way. His work on the horned.
God's is really influential to me.
So, love that. Love a good.
A good podcast. That just makes my ever-growing
list of books. Just even longer, you know, what
I mean? Enough books to last me the rest
of my lifetime, oh my gosh, that list is so long.
And then I think the next one up for me is the one that kind of
intersects for both of us. And so, if you are an avid
podcast listener, particularly in the garden Aryans fear, this
one probably shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.
So for me, seeking witchcraft is such a great podcast because
it's really what kind of led me down this path to where I am in
traditional really Wicca? Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. I was you know podcasting and I
you know just listening to different points of view trying
to get out of the folk magic sphere and trying to listen to
things that are just different and get some different
perspectives. And so when I came across
Ashley's podcast she came up, very came out just very
authentically her very you know, real with words that she didn't
like try to misrepresent herself as being a witch with all of the
knowledge and all of the Had perspective.
She was like, Hey, I'm a seeker and these are the things I'm
learning. Here are some other people who
are kind of where I'm at and are learning the same things and
here's our thoughts, and I think it's been really awesome to
watch. Ashley kind of grow with her
podcast and, you know, double back later and episodes and say,
hey, I think we said this earlier, but this is actually,
you know, more accurate are, these are things that I said
than that. Now, maybe I've changed my mind
about in the face of other facts, other points of view,
which I think more people should do, you know, in the face of
things that are, maybe not who you are anymore.
You know, as you grow and changer, maybe someone has
brought it to your attention, that things are problematic,
great, change your mind, okay? Right.
That is the tenant of critical thinking.
Let's do it more often, you know.
And so I just, I really loved this podcast because you kind of
followed her from Seeker to initiate to now managing, and
running her own coven. And Just it's been this really
great ride to kind of follow along as I am kind of following
that same path. What about you Oak?
How are you feeling about? My God.
Damn, you had the such a like 40 and moment there where you're
like she's managing a covenant. I love it.
She's The High Priestess of the coven, but I love that you're
like there's a bunch of fucking Logistics and the shit's hog.
You're dealing with people and I'm sure it's a shit show and
it's just management. I love it.
As a people manager myself, that is 100%.
My brain goes is, I'm like, alright.
So we gotta hurt all of these people and ideas, and thoughts
and it schedules all into the same place and make them all
work together. Yes.
So I am and have been for a long time, like a self-help junkie.
You know, I came from a very traumatic and, and difficult
childhood and so the Way that I have approached, my life often
is through the lens of self-help and like I was watching Oprah
when I was like, you know, 12 and 8.
So I am really big self-help person and so that led me early
on to a lot of podcasts when that was kind of a new medium to
listening to. A lot of people interview
thought leaders in the self-help space and so I am very
particular About how people are interviewed to a fault, like my
have unrealistic expectations of interviews and therefore, you
know, for me, it would be kind of intense.
And, and may be nerve-wracking for me to interview somebody
just because I was holding it up to these like really high
standards of like Oprah. Interviewing if I can like
Deepak or Eckhart Tolle like, you know, she's kind of the
best, so, Right, you probably weren't gonna do that.
So here he's someone, I mean to me, as you said, you know, she's
definitely grown with her podcast and heard the initial
episodes, you know? Like we're her interviewing
people and the way that she did it in perfectly but continue to
move forward confidently and unapologetically, it's really
inspiring honestly to that sounds also like an underhanded
compliment like oh you're so brave.
I'm super bitchy but really like, I think it opened up my
point of view because I was still able to hear the message
clearly from the people that she was interviewing.
And she's definitely gotten better at it over the seasons
and episodes. And so I appreciate her
confidence in the and not being perfect and being flawed.
So, yeah, I mean, to me that's really commendable and the
people that she interviews as well.
I have really enjoyed learning from her.
A high priest and her High Priestess has easels, really an
interesting person. That I'd love to probably
interview more and now she has a high priest that she's working
with Sheamus. No, no.
The other way around her High Priestess Sheamus and her now
high priest that she's working with her partner, is as easily
as easel has a podcast called Feast of torches, and he is a
really knowledgeable person. Have you listened to that one?
Yeah, yeah. Okay, but we have to get his
easel like a microphone or a program because the volumes all
over the place, but he is so smart and has such good
information, so highly recommend it.
You might have to play with your own volumes settings to get
through. Some of those.
Yeah, do not recommend in the car.
Where said that, you like blow your speaker's out and then all
of a sudden, you're like, I can't hear what's going on.
But again, I know and I hate to be like, I mean, because
honestly, on some level, we're reviewing these podcasts to be.
We want you to come on our podcast, want you, and we want
to go on your podcast. And so we're totally being like
on one hand cutting their house. On the other hand being like, so
like your volumes. You're gonna have to like work
on that, but I think it's important to retain a critical
point of view and not just kiss people's asses.
So I think they'll appreciate her honesty.
But yeah. So meaningful the Garden area
and topics that they cover really useful to your point
around. Ashley changing her mind.
Like starting are you. I'm specifically the thing that
sticks out to me is her take on Sky plat and how she took us
through the Journey of being like really resistant to the
idea of nudity and ritual nudity and then kind of coming around
and changing her mind. Was that the thing that you're
thinking about no actually sir. I was thinking about they did a
wheel of the Year episode where they were talking about kind of
some of the column base level but some of the like, slap on
That titles for those sabbats. And so yeah very confidently was
like am a bond and this is and then she had a future episode
where she was like actually met bonds made up that's not a
thing. Someone just slap that name on
there. So then just like coming back
and doing a whole episode about hey, we presented this
information and now we'd like to like build out that information
and make sure that you guys have a more in-depth understanding
about like where did these titles come from?
How quote-unquote. Legitimate are they and what are
maybe some Some other things that are out there that you
should know about. And she has so many of those
examples though where I just really appreciate someone kind
of diving back in and saying, oh, you know what some something
or someone has made me wiser. And now I'd like to share that
wealth of knowledge with you instead of like a doubling down
on being wrong. I love that totally totally,
yeah, I feel like with this sabbats, you know, in astrology.
Well, Good. Fuck.
Okay. Come back to astrology.
Okay. So, but legitimately and
astrology, one of the big like, bust your bubble Revelation
moments is that there's different house systems.
So, you know, of course, there's the planets and there's the
astrological signs, and then there's like, how systems,
right? So one first, I'll second house
their house all is that, are you familiar with all those ideas?
Yes. As a very base level
understanding if your novice I am like whatever is below that
but you've heard the word. Yes I'm familiar with a base
level constant, so the how systems it's a pluralization,
how systems there's multiple systems which means that there's
placidus there's whole sign. Their tropical there are
different schools of thought about what actually and Where
and how much, how large a house system in terms of the degrees
exist? And so, the reason I say, all of
this is to say that in astrology, there's differing
points of view and on some level, you get to a place where
you're like, how are all of these quote-unquote gurus,
experts people who have been in the space so long Masters
really? How can they have a different
point of view? Like there has to be one real
truth and I kind of approach that suspension of disbelief or
the not needing a right answer in how I look at the sabbats
right where wait, mabon is in me Bond.
What do you mean somebody made that up in the 60s to like fill
a spot? What that can be a real like
throw the baby out with the bathwater moment if it like jars
you to the point where like oh should I been lied to?
But it's like I approach religion as as I say it's
possible that it has a Whose Line Is It.
Anyway, approach where, you know, the points don't matter
and it's all made up like it's possible that this is all just
made up. And and and it doesn't matter so
long as it has meaning. But yeah, I think the whole
mabon take is real funny to me it reminded me of like, wait,
there's multiple house systems with the fuck?
Yeah. Yeah, so that's, you know,
that's what I really appreciate. I guess about that podcast is
the the willingness to be wrong, man.
I love that. I love that in people to just in
general, like the willingness to be like, this is what I thought
and I don't think that anymore. So here we are.
Well, I thought that we would have be able to fill an hour but
I was wrong and look at us never should.
Hopefully I mean I don't know. I'm not a person that Cares
about how long a podcast is, right?
Look, I'll listen to it in chunks and so hopefully, our
listeners feel the same and, you know, maybe we won't have
blisters, is it fucking matter, but I'm fine with it.
Hour-long episode, I don't know. We didn't talk about the
acceptable length of an episode or you in the same boat.
Or do you feel different? Yeah, no I mean I think you read
all these things out there right there.
Like the average most successful episode is 22 minutes long and
I'm like that is just enough time for you and me to like tell
you where I'm at mentally for the day.
I don't remember. Enough time to do it.
So, yeah, I don't have any preference.
Of course listeners, if you would like to give us your
opinion. Yeah, please write us and review
us. However, I just want to put all
of that information out there rather than give people kind of
these Snippets of information that are very depersonalized in,
aren't you know, you and me come sitting back and forth enjoying
this time in the space. Yes, yes, yes, I love this.
So if they tell us, they wanted to be shorter, it will just say
you know, you can do stopped in the middle, there's any come
back to it because right? ER we have things to say, okay,
we're here we're queer. We have things to say and that's
okay, all of those things are accurate to.
All right cool. Well we also we talked about
crowdsourcing a What's the opposite of an intro?
An extra of farewell, write a story to tell it.
I think I should wait episodes about actual construction and
maybe screwing up and circle, maybe a whole episode.
I'm like ways. You can mess up like lighting
your garments on fire or any of those things which have really
had. One of the one of the like
number one rules and podcasting is don't have I'd suggest don't
know about and we just I think we're breaking all of the roles.
We are such Rebels were so brave or dining room.
Okay, we should do a temporary placeholder hanging out Pro.
Okay, what's the opposite of N Out outro?
It's called an outro. Thank you.
That's why they pay you the big bucks Danny.
That's why they put you in charge of people.
You're so smart. It's just thick.
It's not my brand. Yeah, that big ol bernier's.
Thanks for joining us. This has been to real witches.
I'm Oak. And I'm Danny.
And until next time lastly A and B.
Well, okay, blessed, be and be well.
Okay, I'll stop now.