1 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:05,200 And welcome, everybody, to another smart money circle show. 2 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:07,880 I'm Adam Sarhan. With me today is Tom Logan, 3 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:09,800 who's the founder and CEO of Marion. 4 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:12,920 Ticker symbol is Mir. Tom, thank you so much for 5 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:14,840 taking the time. And I'm very excited about 6 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:17,640 today's show. Adam, it's a sincere pleasure to 7 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:19,480 be with you today. Thank you. 8 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:21,800 So Tom, I always like to begin. Can you tell us your story and 9 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:23,480 how you got to where you are today, please? 10 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:26,120 Yeah, I'd be. I'd be happy to. 11 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:30,680 My story is is probably a little bit atypical and probably a 12 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:34,160 little bit too circuitous. But I did my education at 13 00:00:34,160 --> 00:00:39,120 Cornell undergrad and MBA and as I left Cornell, I I moved out to 14 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:42,960 San Francisco and began my career with Chevron Large, 15 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:47,720 obviously one of the global leading global oil producers. 16 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:52,240 Yeah, it was a great experience for me, you know, very strong 17 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:55,520 opportunity to see the world. I had expatriate assignments in 18 00:00:55,520 --> 00:01:01,440 the UK and then in Kazakhstan did a lot of things that really 19 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:06,200 help me to understand and really create kind of a framework as to 20 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:10,200 my particular view of the world at least in terms of how 21 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:14,120 business should be conducted. And that was informed in part by 22 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:16,840 by both positive experiences there as well as negative 23 00:01:16,960 --> 00:01:20,600 experiences there. I love Chevron and joined a 24 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:24,920 privately owned family owned enterprise that was focused 25 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:27,280 principally in the in the food industry. 26 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:32,080 Ultimately becoming CFO of of one of their food ingredient 27 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:36,720 businesses and also President of a cogeneration business they had 28 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:39,240 where they ran a small power plant in the Central Valley of 29 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:43,360 California. Exited both businesses selling 30 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:48,520 them to to the food business to a a major food ingredient or 31 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:52,880 packaged a food producer the the power plant to a a major 32 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:57,040 independent power producer. And at that point I joined my 33 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:00,360 first private equity backed company which was a roll up of 34 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:03,240 contract manufacturing of businesses. 35 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:08,720 I joined a CFOA very operational CFO and that was a business that 36 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:13,000 was focused large largely on the the global tech community. 37 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:17,560 And the timing was perfect in that I joined the company right 38 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:22,240 as we went through theother.com collapse and it led to a very 39 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,440 stressful couple of years since we figured out how to how to 40 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:30,600 deal with a essentially a demand equation that had collapsed and 41 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:33,720 ultimately to gain the the maximum possible value for the 42 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:36,160 business, which ultimately did, we did. 43 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:40,280 We ended up taking the company through Chapter 11, selling it 44 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:43,160 out of Chapter 11. But in many respects it was a 45 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:49,520 successful failure and something that that was an enormously 46 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:52,560 useful learning experience for me overall. 47 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:55,720 But on the on the heels of a couple of good exits for me 48 00:02:55,720 --> 00:03:00,320 personally I decided to take a swing at the at the startup 49 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:04,120 world and was involved for a period of a couple of years with 50 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:07,640 three different early stage companies in the in the San 51 00:03:07,640 --> 00:03:14,320 Francisco Bay area which is my my my primary domicile and again 52 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:17,840 tremendous learning experience. Did a lot of things had the 53 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:23,040 opportunity to really I think creatively and and generate some 54 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:26,720 IP particularly in the in the financial world relating to 55 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:29,880 financial trade credit disintermediation and just kind 56 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:31,800 of the evolving payment space overall. 57 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:36,000 And then randomly I was approached by a one of the one 58 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:42,840 of the top tier recruiters to enter into enter into a dialogue 59 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:47,440 with a financial sponsor that was interested in rolling up 60 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:52,640 three very different small companies into a more unified 61 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:56,920 play that could gain them in a fairly rapid fashion, a scale 62 00:03:56,920 --> 00:04:00,720 multiple expansion. And it was, it was really 63 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:05,440 playing off what at the time was a lot of talk about a nuclear 64 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:08,160 renaissance. And this had been spurred on by 65 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:12,640 principally by the sale of of Westinghouse, the leading 66 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:16,120 reactor designer in the world, from the British government to 67 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:18,839 Toshiba, which sold at a record multiple. 68 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:21,920 And it was, you know, again just emblematic of a very frothy 69 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:25,720 environment overall. And the hook for me is that 70 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:29,120 they, they offered me a seat on the Piper aircraft board. 71 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:34,240 I'm a lifelong pilot to me that was particularly intriguing. 72 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:39,280 So I agreed to do it. And shortly thereafter Miriam 73 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:41,840 was born. You know, we worked very hard to 74 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:45,560 to integrate these three initial, three initial companies 75 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:50,760 and get them into a position where again we could do a 76 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:54,040 relatively quick exit. But as we thought about it, as 77 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:57,560 we as we learned the market and as the macro picture evolved 78 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:00,440 ultimately we concluded that there was more value to be 79 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:05,560 gained by by doing a deeper integration fundamentally 80 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:10,320 reorienting the strategic vectors that we were focused on. 81 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:14,280 And and ultimately what was intended to be kind of a quick 82 00:05:14,280 --> 00:05:16,640 three-year round trip turned into my life's work. 83 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:22,720 You know this is now I'm now on my 21st year at at at Mariana. 84 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:24,240 It's been an incredible adventure. 85 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:28,200 You know we've we've built I think a a great company. 86 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:33,240 I I have great affection for the people that I that I work with 87 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:37,160 on a day-to-day basis and I think what we're doing is truly 88 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:39,560 making the world a better place. And by the way we've also 89 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:44,720 created a lot of value. Our first sponsor got nearly A7X 90 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:48,560 cash on cash return, which by private equity standards is is 91 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:51,560 pretty good. Our second sponsor was better 92 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:53,640 than 2 1/2. And I think the, I think the 93 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:57,240 metric, Adam, you know I reserve on this a little bit is that if 94 00:05:57,240 --> 00:06:01,320 you had invested a dollar and in Miriam back in 03, it would be 95 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:05,840 worth more than $21.00 today. We can talk more later about the 96 00:06:05,840 --> 00:06:08,720 kind of environment that that we've had to deal with through 97 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:11,720 much of that history. But fundamentally that's my 98 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:13,720 story. And in many respects, I feel 99 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:16,240 like we're just hitting our stride and, you know, I can't 100 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:19,560 wait to see what we do over the next 5 to 10 years. 101 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:22,160 Oh, I absolutely love it. That's a phenomenal story. 102 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:24,480 So let's talk about the company, please. 103 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:27,640 Marion, what exactly you do and then some of your competitive 104 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:31,400 advantages, please. So Marian is the global leader 105 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:35,080 in ionizing radiation detection and measurement and I know that 106 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:40,320 strikes people on on 1st hearing as being very esoteric and and 107 00:06:40,840 --> 00:06:44,880 and you know very technically complex field in some respects 108 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:46,520 it is. But the starting point is to 109 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:50,400 note that the the overall addressable market that we're 110 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:55,120 playing in is about an 18 or $19 billion addressable market. 111 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:58,440 It's huge and our currently served market you know where we 112 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:01,080 are playing today is about 4 billion. 113 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:06,120 To parse the the, the components to a little bit, you know 114 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:09,120 firstly when we talk about ionizing radiation we are 115 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:12,520 talking about radiation that can knock an electron out of its 116 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:17,920 orbit or you know maybe on a more relatable fashion that can 117 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:20,680 cause tissue damage in in human beings. 118 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:23,280 We're not talking about microwaves. 119 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:27,440 We are talking about alpha, beta, gamma, X-ray and neutron 120 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:32,920 radiation and we make instruments and provide software 121 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:37,960 solutions and highly tech enabled services that allow for 122 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:40,720 again the detection, the measurement, the analysis and 123 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:46,880 ultimately the harness of of this energy for for beneficial 124 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:49,240 purposes. So that's kind of who we are. 125 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:52,960 In a in a nutshell, we are the the global leader by far. 126 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:59,760 We are #1 in, in 17 of 19 product categories on A on a 127 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:05,080 global basis, we are by far the largest player in this space 128 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:09,840 that that we have defined our largest competitors, our Thermo 129 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:18,680 Fisher, AMETEK and and Affordive and we are on a like for like 130 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:22,920 basis many, many times larger than any of those individual 131 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:25,880 competitors. And it's a great space, has 132 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:28,280 tremendous dynamics. Again, I'm happy to unpack those 133 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:30,840 deeper in the conversation, but that's essentially who we are. 134 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:33,320 I love that. So basically for the audience, 135 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:36,000 there's radiation that comes out from nuclear power plants or 136 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,880 from heavy duty medical devices, things of that nature that could 137 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:40,640 hurt people or could damage tissue. 138 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:44,680 So what you do is you ionize the radiation, so you help reduce 139 00:08:44,680 --> 00:08:47,840 the harmful effects from that radiation as it's emitted. 140 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:53,280 Yeah, let me, let me let me reorient that just a little bit. 141 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:56,280 Firstly, ionizing radiation is everywhere. 142 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:59,640 It comes from the ground that comes from your body emits 143 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:03,200 ionizing radiation. It comes from extraterrestrial 144 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:07,480 sources but it also comes from man made sources like commercial 145 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:10,400 nuclear power, medical applications defense 146 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:13,280 applications and and other things. 147 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:20,440 And our capabilities set really is to be able to to detect with 148 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:24,920 incredible sophistication in any of those vertical markets this 149 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:27,320 type of radiation. Let me let me put some flesh on 150 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:29,840 that bone. Overall, one of the areas that 151 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:33,160 we, we, we, we don't tend to highlight enough simply because 152 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:37,000 it's not a huge component of our overall revenue mix is the work 153 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:40,600 that we do in the big science community And some of the the 154 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:46,040 talking points that engender enormous pride in in internally 155 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:49,040 Ed Maran would include the fact that our instrumentation was 156 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:52,240 used for the discovery of the last nine elements on the 157 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:56,840 periodic table. We have been on most significant 158 00:09:56,840 --> 00:10:00,600 interplanetary space probes. Our our instruments literally 159 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:02,960 confirm the presence of water on Mars. 160 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:07,120 We recently launched on the European Space Agency a Jupiter 161 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:10,400 mission. We are involved with the Artemis 162 00:10:10,680 --> 00:10:14,560 project for the Mars mission and the next movement mission with 163 00:10:14,560 --> 00:10:16,280 NASA. We're on the International Space 164 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:19,360 Station. We are deeply, deeply involved 165 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:22,440 with the global space community. But we're also at the opposite 166 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:26,680 end of the spectrum really the go to firm for the kind of 167 00:10:26,680 --> 00:10:30,160 instrumentation that's used to better understand dark matter 168 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:34,720 and sub particle physics. And so our technological 169 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:39,600 capabilities are second to none. Our innovation experience and 170 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:42,480 record is second to none. And the important thing, maybe 171 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:45,480 the coolest thing about our business is that the things that 172 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:50,600 we learn in those big science applications have immediate and 173 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:55,080 direct relevance in commercial nuclear power, in cancer care, 174 00:10:55,080 --> 00:11:00,400 medical treatment writ large in the life sciences space, in the 175 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:03,120 defense space. And we have a very strong track 176 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:06,360 record of taking innovation out of that science lab, 177 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:10,360 particularly as it relates to detector design, material 178 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:13,160 science, signal chain management, software 179 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:16,920 applications that support all of that and figuring out how to 180 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:20,640 repurpose them into commercially viable form factors and 181 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:22,200 producing them at industrial scale. 182 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:25,400 And that's really the magic behind Marion, because 183 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:29,680 fundamentally what that allows us to do is to grow within this 184 00:11:29,680 --> 00:11:33,960 rather large total addressable market without ever having to be 185 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:36,320 a conglomerate. You know most of the, the great 186 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:41,120 industrial tech firms and even even some of the the hybrid 187 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:44,320 industrial tech and Med tech firms, which is more what we are 188 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:46,960 ultimately end up conglomerating. 189 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:50,360 They buy companies and enter into markets that really have no 190 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:53,160 connection with their historical presence. 191 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:56,040 And they really make their living by being great operators, 192 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:59,040 by being very sophisticated financially. 193 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:02,320 But again, the great thing about Miriam is that we have the 194 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:05,920 ability to grow within this enormous Tam without ever having 195 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:09,640 to conglomerate and continuing to apply that fundamental 196 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:12,760 technological leverage that really drives our ecosystem 197 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:15,160 today. No, that makes perfect sense. 198 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:19,760 So I'm curious here for a second because you mentioned roll up. 199 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:21,280 Let's go back to your story for a second. 200 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:23,960 PE roll ups, you started off with Chevron, then you moved 201 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:25,360 over and you did many other things. 202 00:12:25,680 --> 00:12:28,880 What initially attracted you to this space? 203 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:32,800 Did you see problems slash solution or was there other 204 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:35,680 motivating factors? Because I love your, I love the 205 00:12:35,680 --> 00:12:37,560 mission and I love what you're doing here. 206 00:12:37,560 --> 00:12:40,400 And I mentioned to you before we started recording, I'm family, 207 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:42,600 my father-in-law and my wife when she first started my first 208 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:45,160 met her came from the nuclear space, nuclear industry. 209 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:49,160 So I understand the problem and the Tam and the medical device 210 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:51,480 side of it too. The radiation itself is just a 211 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:53,440 massive thing. How did you get drawn to that 212 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:56,560 and how did you figure out that you want to help solve this 213 00:12:56,560 --> 00:12:58,320 problem and create this business? 214 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:02,880 Yeah, the the way I got drawn in Adam is that firstly when 215 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:06,240 presented the, the initial opportunity again for this you 216 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:11,840 know kind of quick transactional flip that that really formed the 217 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:17,120 the the Colonel of of Marion. I absolutely was a believer in 218 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:19,600 the importance of nuclear power. And at the time, I should note 219 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:24,680 that the the business and its original incarnation had about 220 00:13:24,680 --> 00:13:28,800 70 to 75% exposure. In other words, 70 to 75% of the 221 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:32,360 total revenues ultimately came from commercial power. 222 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:37,640 Today, that number is about 35%. But I was a true believer that 223 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:42,480 the world had to emphasize nuclear energy to a greater 224 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:44,960 degree. And clearly in the 20 years it's 225 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:46,840 passed, there's been a lot of bumps in the road. 226 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:49,000 But today, I think that sentiment is shared more 227 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:52,080 strongly than ever. But that was the initial hook is 228 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:56,520 that I thought, you know, this is a crucial component of the 229 00:13:56,520 --> 00:14:01,240 solution to decarbonizing the global economy, ensuring energy 230 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:04,880 security across the globe. And and I think more and more 231 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:08,600 people share that view today than probably we've seen since 232 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:10,960 the 1970s. Yeah, and I couldn't agree with 233 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:12,440 you more. Now I love that visionary 234 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:15,080 component too. Think about the actual 235 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:17,680 footprint. Are you globally operating? 236 00:14:17,680 --> 00:14:18,720 Do you have revenue from all over? 237 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:21,720 Are you more centered, centered in the US or how does that mix 238 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:22,640 come into play? No. 239 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:25,440 And in fact the majority of our revenues are are from outside of 240 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:28,600 the US We're a we're very global enterprise today. 241 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:37,520 We have about 2700 employees globally, 21 factories again 242 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:42,120 across the globe and principally we are in Europe and in the US 243 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:46,440 We do have a number of facilities in the in China and 244 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:49,480 in Japan and and elsewhere in the world. 245 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:53,160 But it's a very, very international organization and 246 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:57,480 you know tied to the the markets which in turn obviously are are 247 00:14:57,480 --> 00:14:59,560 very international in scope. Got it. 248 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:01,160 That makes perfect sense. OK, beautiful. 249 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:02,920 Thank you very much, Tom, for that overview. 250 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:06,360 And and the people can learn more by going to your website 251 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:08,240 for Investor Relations, it's marion.com. 252 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:09,480 And then click on the Investors tab. 253 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:11,360 Is that correct? For those, that's correct. 254 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:14,920 OK, beautiful. So next few questions I have for 255 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:16,600 you. Let's talk about risk 256 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:18,800 management, neither more timeless in nature. 257 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:21,480 How do you handle risk and what mistakes do you see people make 258 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:24,480 with respect to risk management? Yeah. 259 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:28,440 So there are a couple of things in my background that that I 260 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,600 think have been particularly useful to me in thinking about 261 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:33,600 risk. Firstly, you know as a as 262 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:38,400 somebody that you know came up through the the various 263 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:43,000 financial roles in my in my formative years where amongst 264 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:46,760 other things when I was in London I was managing you know 265 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:49,720 hundreds of millions of dollars of liquidity portfolios and 266 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:51,800 foreign exchange exposures and things like that. 267 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:56,520 And you you learn to be very, very cognizant about about 268 00:15:56,520 --> 00:16:00,640 different elements of risk, you know that are driven by large 269 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:05,280 scale macroeconomic factors and it also forces you to quickly 270 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:07,880 become very decisive. You learn very early on as a 271 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:11,280 portfolio manager running multi current, you know different 272 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:15,240 multi currency portfolios that when an arbitrage opportunity 273 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:18,280 comes up you have to be prepared to act on it instantaneously. 274 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:21,240 You can't wait 30 seconds to pull out your calculator. 275 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:24,360 You have to go. And that decisiveness and that 276 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:27,280 risk awareness has served me well throughout my career. 277 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:33,960 But another very important, I guess, early experience for me, 278 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:37,600 you know, again starting my career at Chevron, was to 279 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:42,640 understand how careers are made at large companies that that 280 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:46,520 that great careers at large companies are essentially a war 281 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:48,720 of attrition. You know, any of the leading 282 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:53,520 Academy companies have incredible, you know, talent 283 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:57,000 benches, They're deep, they're broad and they're very, very 284 00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:59,800 good. Get onboarding fresh new talent 285 00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:04,560 and people quickly realize that to to, you know, thrive and 286 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:06,599 prosper. In my career, I can anticipate 287 00:17:06,599 --> 00:17:09,560 that I'm going to be in any new job for about 3 years, give or 288 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:12,440 take. And my job is to make things a 289 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:19,599 little bit better incrementally to be very politically aware and 290 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:22,720 and very well networked, you know, essentially to build my 291 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:27,160 brand, to build my relationship capital with any enterprise and 292 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:29,480 to not make a mistake. And if you can do that 293 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:33,320 consistently, then your competitors overtime blow 294 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:36,920 themselves up. Either they make a mistake or 295 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:38,760 they leave the enterprise and go elsewhere. 296 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:41,800 And essentially the people who win are the are the last men and 297 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:45,080 women standing. But part of that, and this is 298 00:17:45,360 --> 00:17:50,120 again kind of a crucial philosophical pillar for for 299 00:17:50,120 --> 00:17:53,360 Marion, given the people that we compete against, is it part of 300 00:17:53,360 --> 00:17:56,280 that really forces people to think of a very linear fashion, 301 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:59,240 a very incremental fashion. And of course this isn't true at 302 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:03,160 every large company. This is a generalism not a I'm 303 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:06,800 not calling out specific companies here but we learned 304 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:11,480 early on that if we can embrace risk in a in a systematic 305 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:14,440 fashion you know and understand what risks are we prepared to 306 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:17,040 take. What risks are we not prepared 307 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:19,800 to take. Then we can take a longer term 308 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:23,760 view and we can embrace risks that we know our larger 309 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:27,040 competitors simply can't face because of those career building 310 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:31,440 dynamics. And that to be clear Adam has 311 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:35,720 been a major factor in in in our track record where we have 312 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:39,200 systematically outrun our markets, you know not just for a 313 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:45,000 couple of years but for 20 years and and done suit so in tough 314 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:48,760 markets and good markets. But part of that is again that 315 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,400 we're very risk aware and we know what risks we're prepared 316 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:54,840 to embrace and generally speaking we are prepared to take 317 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:59,280 on systematic strategic risks to a greater degree than some of 318 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:00,640 the people that we compete against. 319 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:04,200 And you know, that's been a real, again, critical element in 320 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:07,040 our success. Yeah, I absolutely love that 321 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:09,400 that systematic risk component, knowing what you're going to do 322 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:12,080 and what you're not going to do before you even engage is such a 323 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:14,520 big because it helps eliminate all the bad or quote UN quote 324 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:17,360 lower quality decisions. So you're by definition, you're 325 00:19:17,360 --> 00:19:18,360 help. You're setting yourself up to 326 00:19:18,360 --> 00:19:20,760 win because you're focusing on the best of the best and then 327 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:24,640 just making a decision within those predetermined decision 328 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:26,120 range. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. 329 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:28,880 OK, beautiful. Some timeless lessons, Tom, that 330 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:30,240 you've learned along the way that you'd like to share with 331 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:35,240 the audience. Please you know timeless 332 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:39,560 lessons, I mean it's such a great topic Adam and I just 333 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:41,840 wanted we could talk about for the for the duration of the 334 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:45,320 podcast. But as it as it relates to you 335 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:48,480 know the the business overall and just you know acting as a 336 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:51,320 leader in any in any kind of role overall. 337 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:58,360 I will tell you the things that that are are most meaningful to 338 00:19:58,360 --> 00:20:01,280 me in terms of how you should manage a business would would 339 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:06,920 include these firstly that. The I'm a huge believer in 340 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:10,960 delegating power and authority as deeply and as broadly into 341 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:14,680 the organization as as possible and that's something that's very 342 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:16,840 hard to do. A lot of people will talk about 343 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:20,240 you know having a federalist type governance structure and 344 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:26,040 and and taking this approach. But if you are very disciplined 345 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:29,800 about it to the to the point where you allow people to fail 346 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,520 in a contained fashion, you're not kind of hovering over them 347 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:36,400 like a helicopter parent guarding them for making 348 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:38,600 mistakes, you allow them to make mistakes. 349 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:42,480 Ultimately that creates an entrepreneurial dynamic and it 350 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:47,680 gives you the ability to manage a a, an enterprise like this 351 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:51,720 that does have a very far-flung geographic footprint, is 352 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:55,240 involved in many different businesses, different verticals 353 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:59,760 etcetera in a much more effective fashion than you ever 354 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:04,240 could and in in more of a conventional command and control 355 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:07,960 a basis overall. Every time I have sprayed from 356 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,440 that philosophy, I have lived to regret it. 357 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:16,160 And so it is a, it is a bedrock principle within our company 358 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:18,640 that we will do this. We will take a federalist 359 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:21,480 approach. We will have, you know, the 360 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:25,120 flattest possible organization. We will delegate power deeply 361 00:21:25,120 --> 00:21:29,200 and importantly what has to happen to make that work is that 362 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:33,040 you have to be eyes open about boundary level issues and you 363 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:36,880 have to be very explicit about who has the ball in every 364 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:38,800 circumstance. You know I mentioned earlier 365 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:41,840 that I'm a I'm a pilot and one of the things that you learn 366 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:48,520 early on in in flight training is that there has to be clarity 367 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:50,520 as to who is flying the airplane. 368 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,360 When you're first a student pilot, you can feel your 369 00:21:53,360 --> 00:21:56,000 instructor coming out of the controls to nudge them in One 370 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:59,440 Direction or another and you think, OK, I'm not he's flying 371 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:01,080 the airplane or she's flying the airplane. 372 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:05,400 I'm not really in charge to the point where as you evolve up 373 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,320 through a jet type ratings and things like that. 374 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:12,840 There's much more of an emphasis on crew resource management 375 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:15,360 where you're very, very clear that Adam, if you and I were 376 00:22:15,360 --> 00:22:19,200 sitting up front on the flight deck of a of a jet and I was 377 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,280 handing over the controls to you, I'd say Adam, you have the 378 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:23,200 flight controls and you would repeat, I have the flight 379 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:25,240 controls and then I would say one more time you have the 380 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:27,760 flight controls. And the reason for that is that 381 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:31,000 it is clarifying and this is a lesson learned in blood. 382 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:35,520 It is clarifying that ambiguity is dangerous and that if both of 383 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,480 us think we're flying or if neither of us thinks we're 384 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:43,200 flying, then that's the recipe for disaster in a corporate 385 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,120 setting. The same thing applies that when 386 00:22:45,120 --> 00:22:48,760 you have boundary levels either between operating groups or 387 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:52,280 between corporate functions and operating groups, there has to 388 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:55,960 be absolute clarity as to who has the ball, who is flying the 389 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:59,080 airplane at any given time. And that is a critically, 390 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:03,120 critically important lesson for, you know, NEC level executive to 391 00:23:03,120 --> 00:23:07,240 make sure that the organizational is or the 392 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:11,360 organization overall is 3 of that ambiguity. 393 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,120 You know, beyond that, you know the other timeless lessons would 394 00:23:15,120 --> 00:23:19,040 relate to leadership and and envision a whole host of other 395 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:20,760 things. But in terms of you know, 396 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:26,560 running a business, to me, I would start with those and then 397 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:31,320 get into just the clarity as to what really matters and and how 398 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:35,200 you're you're establishing a clear eyed vision and how 399 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:39,080 ultimately you're creating coherence from the C-Suite down 400 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:41,280 to the shop floor. To make sure that everybody is 401 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,440 aligned and everybody is focused on the things that matter most, 402 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:48,280 obviously is a critically important life lesson. 403 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:53,560 And I guess piece of wisdom that that just works and it always 404 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:55,480 works. You know, this is absolutely 405 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:56,760 wonderful. So I'm taking notes as you're 406 00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:59,520 speaking, and that clarity matters and ambiguity is 407 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:01,000 dangerous. Is phenomenal. 408 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,480 I love get. I love doing the show because I 409 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:05,200 get Nuggets of wisdom. Everyone's got a different 410 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:08,400 flavor and how you word things and how you process information. 411 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:10,600 To me, it's just it's brilliant. It's absolutely fantastic. 412 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:12,960 I love that clarity matters and ambiguity is dangerous. 413 00:24:13,360 --> 00:24:15,200 Wow, that's fantastic. All right. 414 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:17,800 Next question for you. Timeless mistakes. 415 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:20,080 What are some and then how do you avoid them? 416 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,240 Yeah there. I mean the the corporate world 417 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:30,160 obviously is, is, is, is paved and and and mistakes that that 418 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:34,120 that people would make and some of the things that would be top 419 00:24:34,120 --> 00:24:36,480 of mind for me would be firstly failure to act. 420 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:41,280 You know that that often times maybe most of the time leaders 421 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,160 are dealing in environments that aren't perfectly clear. 422 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:49,320 You know there is the the the the fog of the battlefield that 423 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,640 the kind of mask. What's the right way forward in 424 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:54,680 a way that some people deal with that is that they'll just 425 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:57,960 analyze things to death and rather than understanding when 426 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,480 do I have enough information to act. 427 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:04,720 Their question is, do I have all of the information before I act? 428 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:09,120 And failure to act probably is is one of the, you know, one of 429 00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:12,760 the most critical catalysts of failure for for any business 430 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:16,480 that when the dynamic is changing, whether it's positive 431 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,760 change or negative change, you have to understand it. 432 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:23,520 You have to understand again when you have sufficient data to 433 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:27,240 to act, which is never 100% of the data is just enough. 434 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,600 And then you you have to you have to move. 435 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:37,680 I think a second important lesson or you know root cause of 436 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:42,720 failure is lack of environmental analysis or understanding. 437 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:46,520 And again for me one of the great advantages I had as a as a 438 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:50,680 young stud puppy was working in that environment of of you know 439 00:25:51,120 --> 00:25:54,600 managing liquidity portfolios and foreign exchange where you 440 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,840 have to really, really understand you know the tie 441 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:02,320 between interest rates and exchange rates and and and 442 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:04,640 global geopolitics and things like that. 443 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:09,480 I've been a student of you know geopolitical issues for for my 444 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:11,960 entire career. And one of the things that I, I, 445 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:18,040 I experienced continuously is that people don't lift their 446 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:21,280 heads up, don't look at the horizon, don't understand, you 447 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:25,480 know, don't understand well the macro factors that impact their 448 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:26,920 business. Because most people are just 449 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,480 kind of heads down trying to trying to deal with rights and 450 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:33,040 what's right in front of them, what's in their pipeline, you 451 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,200 know, whether it's commercial pipeline, a technical pipeline, 452 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,480 a financial pipeline, whatever it happens to be. 453 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:43,840 Most people are heads down again focused on on what drives their, 454 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:48,200 you know, their immediate, you know, kind of task tyranny. 455 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:52,960 And so I think it's very, very critical for people again to 456 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,760 understand the environment, to lift their heads, to look at the 457 00:26:55,760 --> 00:27:02,000 horizon periodically to step back and and take it a a a big 458 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:06,160 picture view. And it's always a mistake when 459 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:08,960 when people don't understand that. 460 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,760 I think the next thing on my list would be would be lack of 461 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:16,440 financial knowledge. At the end of the day leaders in 462 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:20,240 any commercial enterprise are responsible for creating value 463 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,360 and this is not some ambiguous concept. 464 00:27:23,360 --> 00:27:27,240 You know value in a commercial enterprise is driven by three 465 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,320 things. It's increasing, you know, your 466 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:33,600 your, your top line volume, it's expanding margins and it's 467 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,520 improving the velocity of your free cash flow. 468 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:38,200 That's it. It's very quantitative. 469 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,880 It's very clear. It's very objective. 470 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:47,640 But many, many leaders don't don't have deep, deep knowledge 471 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:53,080 of of, of finance in a way that's sufficient to understand 472 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:54,800 this. It's in many respects like 473 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,640 having English as a foreign language where some people, you 474 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,840 know speak it fluently and perfectly and others have a 475 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:03,760 minimal vocabulary. And I think so. 476 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:08,200 It is with with leaders that understanding the financial 477 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:12,120 implications of what you do is such an important and critical 478 00:28:12,120 --> 00:28:18,160 predicate for understanding how you create value that I think 479 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:22,480 that's a a real and and and fairly pervasive shortcoming of 480 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,080 part of many leaders. Final thing I would say is just 481 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:29,000 poor leadership where you know in this, in this world that 482 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:33,840 we're in right now where there is a perpetual war for talent 483 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:41,520 and generational shifts in in as we move from Boomers and Gen. 484 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:43,720 X to Millennials and Gen. Z. 485 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:48,360 They're profound, general generational shifts in terms of 486 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:52,280 what people are expecting when they join a company. 487 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,040 And you know it's often said that people don't leave 488 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,880 companies because of, you know, they're not leaving bad 489 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,040 companies, they're leaving bad managers. 490 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:08,520 And so poor leadership is is obviously a perennial source of 491 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:11,360 of mistakes. And we we've all, we've all had 492 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:14,800 bad bosses in our careers and we all would know how to describe 493 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:18,440 them in terms of things like being controlling, volatile, 494 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:22,440 short sighted, self-serving, inaccessible, not caring about 495 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,480 them, all these things and obviously that all of that's 496 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:31,880 avoidable within, you know some certain parameters but that's AI 497 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,680 think a common root cause and in many failures. 498 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:36,680 No, that's really, really wonderful. 499 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:40,000 I love what you said about just understand those 3 principles of 500 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,800 creating value, increasing revenue, expanding margins and 501 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:44,600 improve the velocity of free cash flow. 502 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:46,600 That's so powerful because without that, there's no 503 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:48,120 business or the business not going to grow. 504 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:50,120 You're stagnant. And then if you're not growing, 505 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:54,200 you die. So OK, that's fantastic. 506 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:56,200 Thank you. The failure to act not having 507 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,040 you'll never have perfect knowledge is really, really 508 00:29:58,040 --> 00:29:59,360 good. Have enough knowledge to take 509 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:03,080 action that's really powerful and leaders responsible for 510 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,040 creating value. Really some great, great advice. 511 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:05,960 Thank you, Tom. So far. 512 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:08,600 Next constant next topic is leadership. 513 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,040 What makes a great leader in your opinion and from I guess to 514 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,280 be more of the soft skills. Again, if you want to mention 515 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:16,280 the hard skills as well. Whatever, we're in any direction 516 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:17,040 you want to go. Sure. 517 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:20,200 Yeah. So to me, leadership really 518 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:23,880 begins with clarity around mission, values and vision. 519 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:29,640 You know, mission is, you know what is, what is our reason for 520 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:33,200 being vision is where do we want to go, what not, do we want to 521 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,440 climb values or how we're going to conduct ourselves as we go 522 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,120 there. I think these concepts are often 523 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,800 viewed as being kind of bureaucratic, kind of Dilbert 524 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:48,600 Esque parodies of of the the, the, the, you know, the sincere 525 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:50,960 importance of these things. But again, these are, these are 526 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:56,800 incredibly important components of of of dogma in any company. 527 00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,040 And I I'll tell you we use these all the time. 528 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:02,600 We talk about them all the time, you know, mission we, you know, 529 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:07,080 we're a very quizzitive company. We've done 16 acquisitions since 530 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,200 2016. That's a really important part 531 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,520 of our story. But every, every acquisition 532 00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,280 that we look at, one of the key screening criteria is, is this 533 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:19,960 consonant with our mission because we get shown things all 534 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:22,800 the time and you know, bankers telling us all the time that oh, 535 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:26,440 you should think more broadly and think of yourselves as a 536 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:29,720 test and measurement business. And you know I have a great 537 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:33,920 vibration sensor business or gas detection business that I want 538 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,960 to show you and we'll always begin by comparing that with our 539 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,560 mission and we do use it as a lens and it's got a true 540 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:45,280 pragmatic purpose in focusing us on the things that matter and 541 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:49,320 again the things that that are consistent consonant with our 542 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,000 our mission overall. Secondly, vision is critically 543 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,760 important. We want to build a great company 544 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:55,920 here. You know we're proud of what 545 00:31:55,920 --> 00:32:01,880 we've done today, but we want to build a a lasting recognized 546 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:05,800 company that that has seen as a as a true leader in its in its 547 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:08,760 space overall. And the vision is critical for 548 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:12,920 that because it it is very clarifying to your team in terms 549 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:16,680 of what it is we're trying to accomplish, what good looks like 550 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,480 and you can then take it and break it down into bite sized 551 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,520 pieces that says here's how we get from here to there. 552 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:26,160 This isn't just some ridiculous hyperbolic statement. 553 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,560 This is real. And we can get there by taking 554 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:30,920 these steps and then finally the values. 555 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:34,080 You know, one of the other things that I learned in my 556 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:38,040 early days in large companies is that culture matters. 557 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:41,320 Every enterprise, every business, every collection of 558 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:45,480 human beings has a culture. And culture is a choice. 559 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:49,440 It can be propagated the way the senior leaders want it to be 560 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,840 propagated. And if you have a good culture, 561 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:58,560 it is a, it is a free strategic weapon, strategic tool that 562 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:00,920 allows you to beat your competition, particularly if 563 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,320 they have bad cultures. And when we talk about bad 564 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,320 cultures, we're talking about companies that are, you know, 565 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:11,720 very political, bureaucratic, risk averse, slow moving. 566 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:17,760 Whereas our culture is 1 about, you know, being, being, you 567 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:22,760 know, kind of employee positive. Let's let's have a healthy sense 568 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:26,200 of you know, self deprecating sense of humor, if you will. 569 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:29,560 Let's be prepared to accept risk. 570 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:34,520 Let's be free of politics. Let's be free of of of these 571 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,320 types of constraints. And again you can express all of 572 00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:40,000 that through values and you can love those values if the leaders 573 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:43,560 choose to propagate this. Again, this sounds, it sounds 574 00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,880 trivial, but it's amazing how many organizations really don't 575 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,480 take these things seriously. And again, this is stuff that 576 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:53,680 that we talk about all the time and it's important for every 577 00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:59,480 leader, whether they're the CEO or a middle manager to to be 578 00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:01,880 able to express these things, reinforce these things, 579 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,040 etcetera. The second key element is to 580 00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:07,720 build a team, Great leaders, build great teams and they do 581 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,800 that in different ways. But having you know having the 582 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:14,920 talent on the field necessary to win is obviously critically 583 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,800 important. And and the key thing here again 584 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,840 is being decisive. Having a system or process, a 585 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:25,000 methodology to be able to identify emerging talent, to be 586 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:29,639 able to identify a talent that needs help, that needs coaching 587 00:34:29,639 --> 00:34:32,560 and or redirection and some level of dialogue. 588 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:37,080 And ultimately to make sure that through some combination and 589 00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:40,600 some array of processes you're making sure that you have the 590 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:43,000 best possible talent on the field. 591 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:47,480 And again, this is seemingly obvious, but but many people are 592 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:52,000 are too slow to react or in some cases too quick to react where 593 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,159 they're not helping people that are. 594 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,600 You know that that will benefit from that help and ultimately 595 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,240 will be great at at what they do. 596 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:03,440 You know the final element, you know in terms of how I think 597 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:08,960 about leadership is then taking those things and and being being 598 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:12,960 able to inspire people, inspiring them by firstly making 599 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:17,960 it clear you know what matters the most and then secondly why, 600 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,120 why achieving this is worth worthy. 601 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:25,120 Thirdly, your personal connection, why you are critical 602 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:29,400 in in helping us achieve these things, but basically to inspire 603 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,520 people that hey, we're doing great things. 604 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,080 You know, our mission ultimately is about harnessing our 605 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:38,600 capabilities for the for the greater good of humanity. 606 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:41,400 And people really believe in that and they really are 607 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:43,880 inspired by it. But to be clear, you know my 608 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,280 that's my style of leadership and there's an infinite number 609 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,160 of leadership styles that that clearly are effective. 610 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:56,280 You know some some leaders you don't have a reign of terror. 611 00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:58,680 They but they build brilliant companies. 612 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:00,600 That's certainly not the way we do things at Marion. 613 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,040 But that's how I think about leadership. 614 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,360 I love that. So it's funny you say that 615 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:07,680 because I have a book. I wrote a book about investing. 616 00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,000 It was #1 on Amazon for two months and I talked about 617 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:11,840 there's an infinite number of ways to make money in the 618 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:13,240 market. Your job's to find one that 619 00:36:13,240 --> 00:36:15,120 works for you. So what you're saying here with 620 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,400 the infinite number of ways to lead, I love that as well. 621 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:20,600 Let's talk about adversity and some obstacles. 622 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,240 How do you handle adversity? And what are some obstacles you 623 00:36:23,240 --> 00:36:25,600 had to overcome that you'd like to share with the audience? 624 00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:29,480 Yeah. So the nature of of of 625 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:33,000 leadership again at any level within the enterprise is that 626 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:39,360 you're going to face adversity and seemingly constant adversity 627 00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:41,680 because that's the, that's the nature of business. 628 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,680 It is the ultimate kind of Darwinian environment and and 629 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:48,360 bad things happen all the time And so you have to be able to to 630 00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:52,480 react to it. And you know the way that that I 631 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:56,160 personally handle it is firstly yeah when it occurs to not be 632 00:36:56,160 --> 00:37:02,280 surprised by it and and be able to to react to it in a in a 633 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:06,880 systematic and positive fashion. Again this is AII think at one 634 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:09,840 point I'm going to write a book about lessons learned flying 635 00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:13,360 piloting aircraft and how ultimately that relates to 636 00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:15,240 business. But as an example you know if 637 00:37:15,240 --> 00:37:18,840 you have have a, if you're having a bad day in an airplane 638 00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:21,520 and you have to be very level headed and think systematically 639 00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:24,720 OK and and firstly recognize immediately that I have a 640 00:37:24,720 --> 00:37:27,960 problem and then secondly systematically go about solving 641 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,560 that problem. And so it is in business where 642 00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:33,120 you know first thing to do is maintain a level head and and 643 00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:38,000 not overreact to it because experience demonstrates that 644 00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:43,320 people do tend to overreact to adversity until they they calm 645 00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:46,120 down a little bit. And so it's important to start 646 00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:52,040 there, recognize that adversity often times it's not just 647 00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:56,000 impacting you, it's impacting your competitors or you know an 648 00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,960 entire sector. And so it represents not only a 649 00:37:59,960 --> 00:38:01,920 threat to your business but an opportunity. 650 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,320 And so the key thing is to figure out how are we going to 651 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:08,320 get out of this, Are we going to mitigate this situation and 652 00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,880 ultimately can we turn it to our advantage in terms of being able 653 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:15,840 to respond to it better than our competitors are. 654 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:20,800 You know some of which involves preparation and anticipating 655 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:25,720 adversity and some of it just relates to you know the the in 656 00:38:25,720 --> 00:38:29,240 the moment option set that that you have to deal with. 657 00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,800 And beyond that understanding that you know this takes a toll 658 00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:37,560 on you. It's a it's a grind and it it 659 00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:40,240 creates enormous stress. And as you know Adam running, 660 00:38:40,240 --> 00:38:44,760 running your business that you know as the as the key guy you 661 00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:49,520 know it's on you 24/7 365 and you think about your business 662 00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:52,200 all the time and you wake up in the middle of the night thinking 663 00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:55,080 about it. And so you have to find a way 664 00:38:56,040 --> 00:39:01,280 of, you know, of of turning this into a marathon and being able 665 00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:05,680 to deal with the occasional body blows and the stress that comes 666 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,040 with it. Part of that is being 667 00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:11,920 spiritually grounded and and whatever you know whatever that 668 00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:16,280 means to you it's being physically fit so that you can 669 00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:22,080 be resilient and and deal with these things as they come and 670 00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:24,400 recognize that you know the more senior you are in an 671 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:28,120 organization the more eyes are going to be on you to see how 672 00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:31,760 you're reacting to it. And if the world is you know 673 00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:35,800 upended if you're a steady hand on the teller, then that's going 674 00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:39,840 to be enormously calming to the to the people that work for you 675 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:43,440 and around you. And that's you know that's how I 676 00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:45,680 would approach adversity in general. 677 00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:49,520 The the second part of your question relates to, you know, 678 00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:53,040 personal challenges and you know, here I'd I'd probably cite 679 00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:59,920 two things that that have been obstacles that I had overcome in 680 00:39:59,920 --> 00:40:03,080 in my career. Firstly, I would tell you that I 681 00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:09,640 am naturally highly introverted. And you know, I think the 682 00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:13,280 classical definition of introversion is a When you're 683 00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:17,240 around people, you feel like they are consuming energy rather 684 00:40:17,240 --> 00:40:22,720 than generating energy for you. The world is run by extroverts. 685 00:40:22,720 --> 00:40:26,200 The the corporate world in particular is run by extroverts. 686 00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:32,280 And so ultimately as I have learned how to, you know, to be 687 00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:35,280 extroverted when I am fundamentally wired to be 688 00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:37,480 introverted, I think that's kind of like a superpower. 689 00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:41,160 Because not only do I understand the extroverts, but I understand 690 00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:44,720 the introverts really well. And some of our our greatest 691 00:40:44,720 --> 00:40:48,280 leaders, our best ideas come from introverts and and too 692 00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:53,560 often if you're not sensitive to how these people are wired their 693 00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:58,560 voices won't be heard and their talents will not be leveraged to 694 00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:01,480 the greatest degree possible. But you know that would be #1 695 00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:06,000 for me again is that I'm I'm an introvert in a in a world run by 696 00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:08,920 extroverts. A secondly I would tell you that 697 00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:14,440 my background is in finance. I'm not an engineer and I'm 698 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:18,200 obviously running a you know a hyper technical company. 699 00:41:19,720 --> 00:41:23,160 The advantage I have though is that I'm naturally kind of 700 00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:26,280 technically or technologically oriented. 701 00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:28,760 I was a bit of a Motörhead as a as a kid. 702 00:41:29,240 --> 00:41:32,640 I've always been fascinated by vehicles and you know taking 703 00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:34,800 engines apart and putting them back together and things like 704 00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:37,920 that. And despite being a finance guy, 705 00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:45,120 hold over a dozen patents that I have more in the works, I push 706 00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:47,840 people to think in a very lateral and expensive fashion. 707 00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:51,320 A lot of people assume I'm an engineer by by virtue of that. 708 00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:54,360 And then you know, there are, there are many occasions where, 709 00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:58,080 you know, I wish I had a little bit deeper technological 710 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:02,480 understanding about certain things. 711 00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:05,760 But at the end of the day, you know, in in the seat that I hold 712 00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:10,600 today, I I don't need that. And I I I have enough of it. 713 00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:14,360 The last challenge that I would cite that I have personally is 714 00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:21,200 that I am definitely ADD where you know I and this is something 715 00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:26,080 that I've had to deal with my my entire life which is a challenge 716 00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:29,920 when you're a student and you know you sit down for a lecture 717 00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:33,120 and the minute the lecture starts speaking you know you're 718 00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:37,760 1000 miles away. But on the other hand the things 719 00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:41,040 that you learn somebody with that background is the ability 720 00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:45,040 to hyper focus, the ability to multitask in a way that many 721 00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:49,000 others can't. And again I think weirdly you 722 00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:53,360 know being a bit ADD as ACEO again it's kind of a superpower 723 00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:57,360 that allows you to to focus deeply on things that really 724 00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:00,800 matter at that moment but otherwise to to be able to keep 725 00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,200 a lot of balls in the air. So those are the things that I 726 00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:05,480 would, I would say them challenges for me personally. 727 00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:08,120 Right. Come absolutely knocked it out 728 00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:11,040 of the park. I I mean, I could spend an hour 729 00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:14,880 commenting on on what you just said, the spiritual stuff, the 730 00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:17,320 state grounded stuff, the superpower stuff. 731 00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:20,160 So in my book, I literally have cartoons and I'll share with one 732 00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:22,080 second. The idea is to bring out your 733 00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:25,280 Superman, your superhero inside of you and then beat the that. 734 00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:27,160 Is awesome. Yeah, thanks. 735 00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:30,040 So I've got 2 characters. One's a smart money superhero 736 00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:32,000 and then the other one's a dumb money beast. 737 00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:34,640 And the idea is to make rational, not emotional 738 00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:36,120 decisions. Which is exactly what you're 739 00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:38,160 saying. Stay grounded and then ready 740 00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:39,400 when the body blows. Come. 741 00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:41,760 Every garden has weeds. You just got to take the weeds 742 00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:42,720 out. It's going to the weeds are 743 00:43:42,720 --> 00:43:44,280 coming. So but you can still have a 744 00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:46,760 beautiful garden. So I I absolutely, I mean, next 745 00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:48,600 level, what? Very well. 746 00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:49,600 Amen, brother. I'm. 747 00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:52,160 I'm right there with you. 100% OK. 748 00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:54,800 Final question for you, what's the best piece of advice you'd 749 00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:57,240 like to get to the audience or share with your 30 year old self 750 00:43:57,240 --> 00:44:02,400 please? The best advice I would give 751 00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:08,920 I'll, I'll I'll address this to my 30 year old self is is is 752 00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:12,000 maybe three things. Number one is work hard be good 753 00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:19,280 at what you do and you know that's obviously obvious advice. 754 00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:22,760 Secondly, I would say have an agenda. 755 00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:27,480 You know too many people will come in and and even in a, you 756 00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:30,920 know, a more humble job, you should have an agenda. 757 00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:33,160 You should have a point of view, you should have a world view 758 00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:35,080 that informs the way you think about your job. 759 00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:38,360 Understand how your job is connected to, you know, whatever 760 00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:41,880 the overarching mission of your organization happens to be. 761 00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,440 And you should have an agenda focused on here's what I want to 762 00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:48,120 do while I am in this role. Here is the here. 763 00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:54,800 Here are my personal set of visions and values and in 764 00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:57,560 mission, while I'm in this position and too many people 765 00:44:57,560 --> 00:44:59,560 don't have an agenda. They just come in and they wait 766 00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:02,440 to be told here's, you know, here's what you you need to do. 767 00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:06,800 Here's what good looks like. And even if you are told all 768 00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:09,800 those things, you should still, you know, have a countervailing 769 00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:12,960 point of view as to, you know, how would I think about this 770 00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:16,400 organically? What should my agenda be? 771 00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:19,600 The final thing I would say is to be kind. 772 00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:23,240 You know, the world is a small place. 773 00:45:23,240 --> 00:45:25,360 The business world is a smaller place. 774 00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:29,120 In any specific industry is a smaller place still. 775 00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:34,480 Being kind to everybody that you interact with cost you nothing. 776 00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:39,760 It it makes everybody feel better about the way that they 777 00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:43,320 interact with you, the way that they they feel about themselves. 778 00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:48,400 It gives people the ability to take off their armor and to 779 00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:52,560 think not about how do I protect myself from what may be an 780 00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:56,640 unpleasant or hostile interaction, the one where I can 781 00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:58,400 think about, How can I be my best self? 782 00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:02,920 How can I? How can I you know, how can I 783 00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:08,600 play offense instead of defense? And kindness is really the most 784 00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:12,120 fundamental prerequisite to that, understanding that 785 00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:16,240 kindness is a reflection, that you care about people, that you 786 00:46:16,240 --> 00:46:20,640 want the best for them, and you're not in this just for 787 00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:24,760 yourself. And too often, again, 788 00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:28,360 particularly as as young ambitious people, you know, we 789 00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:29,760 don't think about these things overall. 790 00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:34,480 So those would probably be the the, the most important 791 00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:36,760 elements, I guess maybe the final thing too would be don't 792 00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:40,520 love for the future, you know, smell the roses, take your 793 00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:43,280 victories as they come, as you take your lumps. 794 00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:50,040 But try and be present and and appreciate life as a journey. 795 00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:53,840 You never get to the end until the end comes to you and it's 796 00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:57,280 important to keep growing. Keep keep looking looking 797 00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:01,880 forward but also try and you know try and smell the roses 798 00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:03,680 along the way and and be present. 799 00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:07,680 Don't live for a future state that may may or may not come, 800 00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:10,120 and if it does come, you know may not be what you think it 801 00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:12,440 won't be. I love that have the internal 802 00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:14,640 scorecard instead of the external and and be. 803 00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:16,560 Yeah, I love that. Absolutely fantastic. 804 00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:18,280 Well, Tom, thank you so much for coming on the show. 805 00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:21,040 This has been absolutely pleasure and hopefully we'll 806 00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:24,200 have you on again soon. Adam, thank you very much for 807 00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:25,280 inviting me. Have a great day.