1 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:05,200 And welcome everybody to another smart money circle show. 2 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:08,119 I'm Adam Sarhan. With me today is Sam Tabar, 3 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:12,120 who's CEO of bit digital ticker symbol BTBT. 4 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:14,240 Hi, Sam. Thank you so much for taking on 5 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:14,640 the show. Thank. 6 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:18,280 You for having me? So Sam, I always like to begin. 7 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:20,400 Can you tell us your story and how you got to where you are 8 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:22,200 today, please? Sure. 9 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:25,720 I ended my career as an attorney at Skadden Arps in New York 10 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:28,200 City. I slept under a desk for a few 11 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:34,280 years working as a lawyer. And after a number of years, I I 12 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:39,320 had a client that was a Japanese hedge fund, and they asked me to 13 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:43,080 work as in house counsel and they asked me to move to Tokyo 14 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:45,120 and I said yes. I've never been to Tokyo and I 15 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:49,760 just took the risk, moved to Tokyo and learn the language 16 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:51,120 there. I lived there for a number of 17 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:56,040 years, about six years, and then Bank of America Merrill Lynch 18 00:00:56,040 --> 00:01:00,640 asked me to run their capital strategy and I I moved to Hong 19 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:04,519 Kong and I was responsible for their capital strategy for for 20 00:01:04,519 --> 00:01:08,000 all of the Asia Pacific region, including Australia. 21 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:14,600 Did that for a number of years and then I I I I moved to New 22 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:21,240 York, back to New York from Asia and I Co founded a blockchain 23 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:25,240 company called Fluidity. We created something called Air 24 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:31,600 Swap which went viral and it was a a decentralized exchange. 25 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:34,960 We were one of the precursors to the whole decentralized exchange 26 00:01:34,960 --> 00:01:39,620 concept in blockchain. We sold that company to the Co 27 00:01:39,620 --> 00:01:44,120 founder of Ethereum Joe Lubin and I then took on the 28 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:49,040 responsibility of being in the executive team of Bit Digital, a 29 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:51,480 NASDAQ listed Bitcoin mining company. 30 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:53,960 I'm currently CEO. Excellent. 31 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:57,000 That's a fantastic story. So you started off in One 32 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:58,600 Direction, I love the law side of it. 33 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:00,960 And then you moved into finance and then you moved into the 34 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:03,160 blockchain. And then here you are the EO of 35 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:05,920 bTB. One of the reasons why 36 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:09,560 blockchain, what I found interesting was back in 2008, 37 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:12,000 which I lived through. I'm in my 50s now. 38 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:19,840 I I remember Satoshi's white paper coming out and it talked 39 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:23,040 about Bitcoin and that is a really cheesy name. 40 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:27,480 And I did read the the white paper and I I thought well 41 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:31,120 that's really interesting but that's just being used to sort 42 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:36,520 of a currency being used for for for drugs and illicit things and 43 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:42,160 that that was that was the initial currency of bit Bitcoin 44 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:45,160 at the time. Of course it has expanded 45 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:46,480 greatly. Just has the intranet. 46 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:49,440 When the Internet was was invented, believe it or not, 47 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:53,760 most of it was, you know, illicit stuff like pornography 48 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:55,960 and things like that. But the Internet became much 49 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:58,840 bigger than than that. But when the Internet was 50 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:03,440 invented, it was a lot of it appealed to the more base nature 51 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:06,320 of humanity, and that has since been elevated. 52 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:08,640 Same thing with Bitcoin. Blockchain. 53 00:03:08,640 --> 00:03:10,640 Yeah, it makes perfect sense. So, Sam, let us know. 54 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:13,720 Tell us about your business and some of the competitive 55 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:15,920 advantages you have, please. Sure. 56 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:19,680 So at Bit Digital, we're listed under NASDAQ, BTBT, we're a 57 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:23,720 publicly listed company and we're one of the large scale 58 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:27,400 Bitcoin miners out there. We're not unique in the sense 59 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:31,480 that there are other Bitcoin miners, but we are unique in 60 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:34,160 another way, very unique in another way that I'll get into 61 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:38,640 shortly. We have operations in North 62 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:42,360 America that being in the United States, Canada and Iceland. 63 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:46,080 It's important to have operational diversification. 64 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:50,400 The reason for that is when we have about, we have 10s and 10s 65 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:53,040 of thousands of Bitcoin miners and if you have everything 66 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:57,440 located in one air in one operation, you're creating 67 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:00,320 operational risk. In other words, something can 68 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:05,560 blow up, a regulatory change can happen against you and it's just 69 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:08,440 not worth having all your eggs in one basket. 70 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:11,280 So what we've done is we've created operational 71 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:14,800 diversification by having our operations in our fleet 72 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,800 diversified across different countries, in different States 73 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:22,640 and different jurisdictions. And that way we maintain and 74 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:25,280 risk and manage our risk with respect to operations. 75 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:28,640 And we're not the only ones that do that, but I think we're the 76 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:34,440 most diversified by far. So as mentioned, we are a 77 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:38,040 Bitcoin miner. However, we have an AI business 78 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:41,160 and that AI business is very material. 79 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:44,560 In fact, it may even dwarf our Bitcoin mining revenues. 80 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:48,880 And so we're really well positioned in the sector and the 81 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:52,800 entire Bitcoin mining sector. As far as I know, nobody has a 82 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:57,120 material AI business like we do. And we have certainty of 83 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:01,880 revenues over the next few years about well over 35 million a 84 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:07,640 year, and that is very certain. And so we have this massive 85 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:11,440 money. So we have a certain AI business 86 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:13,880 as well. The problem with Bitcoin mining 87 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:17,440 or or the blessing is that it's Bitcoin. 88 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:22,720 When Bitcoin goes up, Bitcoin mining stocks go up even more. 89 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:26,280 So as an example of that, bitcoins up about 200 percent, 90 00:05:26,280 --> 00:05:30,440 250% year to date. Bitcoin mining stocks, including 91 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:32,920 ourselves, are up more than 400%. 92 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:37,240 So if you believe in Bitcoin, if you buy a Bitcoin mining stock, 93 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:40,080 that goes up even more. There's more beta in Bitcoin. 94 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:43,480 If you believe, if you have a thesis of bitcoins going up, if 95 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:46,160 you look at things historically, Bitcoin mining stocks go up even 96 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:49,120 more. So that's the trick with respect 97 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:50,920 to Bitcoin mining. That's why people invest in 98 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:53,040 Bitcoin mining. The issue with Bitcoin mining is 99 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:55,880 that it's quite volatile. Even though you have a view 100 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:58,480 that'll go up, it could also go down. 101 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:01,200 And that's why we have this AI business that creates the 102 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:03,480 stability that no one else in the sector does. 103 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:08,400 So we become this AI business with a Bitcoin mining call 104 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:11,280 option, which is really the perfect situation. 105 00:06:11,280 --> 00:06:15,320 So if Bitcoin goes down, we'll still do very, very well because 106 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:17,960 we have this AI business and if Bitcoin goes up, that's 107 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:20,440 fantastic. We have this massive fleet and 108 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:23,280 World Bank Bank with respect to Bitcoin as it goes up. 109 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:25,600 I love that. So let's talk about the AI 110 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:28,120 component because that's a very, very, like you said it could 111 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:31,080 dwarf the mining side of it. It's almost like Amazon Web 112 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:34,120 Services and Amazon retail. How the web services Jesse's now 113 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:37,000 from the web services and that overcame, let's talk about the 114 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:39,400 AI. Do you do AI for mining or is AI 115 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:41,400 used for other applications and if So, what? 116 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:46,880 Yeah, so basically we're we so there are people who do AI 117 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:49,560 applications. These folks who are doing AI 118 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:54,240 applications need very serious specialized computational power. 119 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,240 We're not involved in Bitcoin, sorry. 120 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:59,320 In AI applications we don't do that. 121 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:03,920 We're not doing ChatGPT 5-6 or whatever, but we what we do have 122 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:08,560 are specialized machines that actually provide the 123 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:12,040 computational power to create AI applications. 124 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:17,800 So we we have access to these specialized NVIDIA machines that 125 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:22,280 we've parked in Iceland. And people who are doing AI 126 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:27,200 applications, they need to rent certain computational power. 127 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:30,000 They need to rent the infrastructure to power their 128 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:35,000 applications and they come to us and sign contracts in order to 129 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:38,320 rent that computational power. We have an incredible client, an 130 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:42,720 incredible anchor client that's currently renting computational 131 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:44,600 power from us. They don't want to get them 132 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:46,120 involved in the hardware business. 133 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:48,960 That's our specialty. They want to just do the AI 134 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:51,440 application part. We don't want to do the AI 135 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:53,320 application part. That's not our specialty. 136 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:57,160 Our specialty is the hardware we've source statement. 137 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:00,920 We put that in a specialized data center and people come to 138 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:03,040 us to rent that computational power. 139 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:05,040 That's the AI business. Pretty simple. 140 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:07,520 Yeah, it makes perfect sense because a lot of that's in the 141 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:09,680 video chips you need for the mining and if you know use it 142 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:11,720 for mining, use it for the AI and you've got that 143 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:14,840 infrastructure built out. So we do although. 144 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:18,280 It's different to mention that Bitcoin mining equipment. 145 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:24,160 Bitcoin mining machines are different from AI machines. 146 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:29,360 AI machines are Lamborghinis and require specialized data center, 147 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:33,240 whereas Bitcoin mining machines are like high end days, they're 148 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:36,480 not like specialized Lamborghinis that require 149 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:40,039 high-powered ability. So you you could put that in a 150 00:08:40,039 --> 00:08:44,240 in a lower tier data center, whereas with respect to AI 151 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:47,480 machines you got to put that in a specialized data center. 152 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:50,400 We have the ability and access to both. 153 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:53,720 I love that. OK, let's talk about risk. 154 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:56,520 How do you handle risk and what are some mistakes you've seen 155 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:58,920 people make with respect to risk management over your career? 156 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:02,080 Sure. So in the in, in the very early 157 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:06,120 days, many years ago, bid digital had its entire fleet in 158 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:10,000 China. And we took the view that that 159 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:13,240 was probably a really bad idea with respect to risk, 160 00:09:13,560 --> 00:09:17,200 jurisdictional risk because in China you can get the rug pulled 161 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:21,240 from under you very quickly. And indeed it, you know there 162 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:26,000 was a a ban on Bitcoin mining and fortunately we migrated our 163 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:28,800 entire fleet where we were in the process of migrating our 164 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:30,720 entire fleet six months before the ban. 165 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:36,920 And and sure, thank you. And so that's really in our DNA 166 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:39,880 to manage jurisdictional and operational risk. 167 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:41,960 People think we're being paranoid, but we were not. 168 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:48,240 And so we think it's risky when Bitcoin miners have all their 169 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:52,520 eggs in one basket in like for example, say in one country or 170 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:56,000 heavily in one operation, that's not a good idea. 171 00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:58,720 And we don't think it's a theoretical risk. 172 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:02,000 We've actually lived through that risk by seeing what 173 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:06,360 happened in China. So that's 11 risk that we think 174 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:09,680 our peers are making that we are not. 175 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:13,600 Yeah. Makes perfect sense. 176 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:15,760 And I guess from your loss side to your. 177 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:20,320 Background also also another very important risk that that 178 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:23,520 your investors should be really aware of when they're looking at 179 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:26,360 the Bitcoin mining sector, because there is about a dozen 180 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:29,800 of us in the sector, we're all friendly competing. 181 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:33,400 But the problem with a lot of the competition is that they're 182 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:37,560 just there's not much differentiation between Bitcoin 183 00:10:37,560 --> 00:10:40,920 miners except for size and there's not really an economy of 184 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:43,120 scale that goes on here in Bitcoin mining. 185 00:10:43,680 --> 00:10:48,960 So their strategy is hope. They hope Bitcoin goes up. 186 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:52,120 That's a really bad strategy. I'm not going to run a business 187 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:54,840 based on hope. It's true that they it might 188 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:56,760 work out. I actually believe that 189 00:10:56,760 --> 00:11:00,480 Bitcoin's going to go up and if Bitcoin goes up, like as I said, 190 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:04,040 Bitcoin mining stocks go up even more, that's great and that'll 191 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:05,920 work out for them. That's their hope and their hope 192 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:09,120 may work out. But wouldn't you rather invest 193 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:12,320 in a stock that has the stability of revenue in the on 194 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:16,120 the AI side, right. And if Bitcoin goes up, we have 195 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:20,680 that call option and and so you can capture the call option, but 196 00:11:20,680 --> 00:11:25,120 at least you have this base on the AI revenue and that's how 197 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:26,960 we're uniquely placed in the sector. 198 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:29,400 Yeah, that's really smart. And so the. 199 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:34,160 The strategy of of of of, of just hoping that Bitcoin goes 200 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:39,320 up, it to me is not the most wisest strategy, although it may 201 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:42,160 work out. It's the risk component and it 202 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:43,360 goes back to your law background. 203 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:45,320 If I'm if I understand what you're saying correctly, where 204 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:47,800 just like you're protecting yourself from regulatory and 205 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:49,760 jurisdictional risk by diversifying in different 206 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:52,440 countries from an income stamp or revenue standpoint, you're 207 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:55,360 diversifying your risk as well. Whereas if one thing doesn't 208 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:57,920 work, the mining side of it, guess what, You've got the AI 209 00:11:57,920 --> 00:11:59,960 hardware component, which is steady cash flow. 210 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:04,200 And it's almost like, yeah, it's like what Levi's did back in the 211 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:06,240 gold rush where he made his money selling the jeans and the 212 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:08,720 pickets and the shovels, not so much digging the hole trying to 213 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,800 find the gold, which I love. But you also have that component 214 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:14,080 as well because you've got the mining constantly going. 215 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:16,000 So you've got you're hitting it from both sides. 216 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:17,760 You've nailed it. I love that. 217 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:21,080 OK, Sam, let's talk about some timeless lessons you've learned 218 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:24,960 along the way in business and marketing, in any law, anywhere 219 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:26,840 you want to go, I'd love to. I'd love to hear. 220 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,520 Just just in general. Yeah, Jen, anywhere you want 221 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:34,760 specific legal background, you can wear the business hat. 222 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:37,080 You can wear the hat anywhere, any hat you want to wear. 223 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:38,920 Just some timeless lessons I'd like to share with the audience. 224 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:44,840 Yeah, I think, you know, I have dealt with a lot of characters 225 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:48,880 in my life, including myself. And I think the most important 226 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:55,800 thing when you're dealing with people in negotiation and things 227 00:12:55,800 --> 00:13:00,400 that go wrong is just to stay calm and just take a walk around 228 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:06,440 the park or just hold off before we acting. 229 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:11,200 I think that about the majority of the times that I've reacted 230 00:13:11,560 --> 00:13:15,520 without taking some pause. I don't think we're always the 231 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:17,360 wisest. And so I've come to a point in 232 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:21,760 my life where I've learned a lot of painful lessons to just hold 233 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:25,400 off and just wait for things to simmer down. 234 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:28,720 Sometimes not making a decision right away is OK. 235 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:35,720 And and and just thinking just trying to zoom out and and see 236 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:39,120 if you know what, what was what's going to matter next 237 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,520 year, not tomorrow, but what will really matter next year. 238 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:44,520 And if if what's being done against you won't matter next 239 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:47,840 year, then then it's better to just think about it. 240 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:51,160 And so the the general business advice I would give to 241 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:55,240 entrepreneurs running a business or on the rise or even, you 242 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:57,960 know, even middle management or wherever you are in a company 243 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:00,680 structure is if somebody pisses you off. 244 00:14:00,680 --> 00:14:04,960 Just just stay calm. People actually really value 245 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:13,320 steadiness and your ability to deal with crap without without 246 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:15,760 reacting. It's it's a it's a skill. 247 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:18,760 It's a learned skill, at least in my case. 248 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:23,240 And it's a muscle that you need to to to train, just like going 249 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:26,240 to a gym. You need to train that muscle to 250 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:31,040 remain calm and so that that's one bit of advice I would give 251 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:37,920 to any entrepreneur or any employee that's working in this 252 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:45,600 game of capitalism. I do have some advice, yeah, is 253 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:49,000 you need to always be careful who your friends and who your 254 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:51,040 your partner, your romantic partner is. 255 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:55,520 That has a strong effect, probably the the biggest effect 256 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,640 in the world on you. There is this old adage that 257 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:01,720 you're basically the combination of the five people you hang out 258 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:05,120 with, the top five people you hang out with is basically who 259 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:09,480 you are as a mixture. That is an adage I heard, and 260 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:14,640 that is completely true. So if you want to become a 261 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:19,000 better person or another person, the easiest way to do that is 262 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:22,080 just to select people that you know that you would like or 263 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:25,080 admire. Because through this strange 264 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:29,600 chemical osmosis, what happens is that you blend into that 265 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:35,120 person as well and the person that you go home to everyday in 266 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:39,520 my you know, if you're a a a straight man, you go home to, to 267 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:42,960 a girlfriend or if you're, you know, whatever orientation you 268 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:44,520 go home to. Anyway, my point, you get it. 269 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:49,960 My point is that romantic person also has a huge that your 270 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:54,360 romantic partner also has a huge impact on on how you feel about 271 00:15:54,360 --> 00:16:01,320 things and sometimes people I I have noticed a lot of my peers 272 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:04,360 sometimes they could go home to less than ideal situations and 273 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:07,400 it has an effect on the workplace and their social life 274 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:09,280 and their just their general outlook on life. 275 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:11,960 So, so yeah, I would. I would. 276 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:15,560 I would be very careful on who you select as a romantic partner 277 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:17,960 and ask your friends. I absolutely love that. 278 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:21,000 That's some great advice. So I wrote a book, Sam, years 279 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,080 ago, and it was #1 in Amazon for two months. 280 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:24,360 It's called psychological analysis. 281 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:27,560 The whole point is to learn how to make rational, not emotional 282 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,560 decisions with, especially when you're investing. 283 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:33,360 So what you're saying here is just and select those people 284 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:34,960 around you that is so, so powerful. 285 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:39,400 What are some timeless mistakes you've made and or learned from 286 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:41,360 or you've seen other people make that you'd like to share with 287 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:43,560 the audience? Well, I think that's forty. 288 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:46,280 I think I may have signaled that I have thought sometimes in the 289 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:52,360 past, particularly in my 30s, I have made a decisions and 290 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:57,800 reacted out of ego instead of out of zooming out and just 291 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,160 understanding what really matters in the long term. 292 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:03,600 So those are mistakes I made a lot especially in my 30s as I 293 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:10,040 was on the rise and I was drinking my own Kool-aid and I 294 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:12,880 start to believe my own hype. And so I've learned my, I've 295 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:19,160 learned my lesson on that and and yeah, and with respect to to 296 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:22,480 business always, you know, always having a diversified 297 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:26,520 approach it is, is really is really smart. 298 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:30,560 I love that. Now, what makes Let's talk about 299 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:32,880 leadership for a second, because you're the CEO, you've LED 300 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:34,960 groups, you've led the Asian team with Bank of America, and 301 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,160 so on and so forth. What makes a great leader? 302 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:39,760 And what are some timeless lessons you've learned about 303 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:41,600 leadership that you'd like to share with the audience, please? 304 00:17:42,360 --> 00:17:48,120 I think what makes a great leader is somebody that doesn't 305 00:17:48,120 --> 00:17:52,040 make it so obvious that he's the leader. 306 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:58,400 It it if if you walk into a room and people are nervous, then 307 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:02,160 they're you're not gonna unlock their intellectual value, 308 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:06,000 they're just gonna be yes men around you. 309 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:12,440 It's really important for people to feel like they're equals in 310 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:14,680 many ways. And the the leadership thing 311 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:17,920 only comes into play when there's a difficult decision to 312 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:21,840 make. If sometimes decisions are not 313 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:27,640 super clear and and sometimes sorry, sometimes the answers are 314 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:30,040 not super clear and that's when you sort of have to make a a 315 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:33,080 decision. And frankly not all my 316 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:36,200 decisions, I I you have to make them with conviction, right. 317 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:41,280 But you there's a bit of an acting component when you make 318 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:43,080 it with conviction. That's the leadership part. 319 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:45,520 It's sort of a performance to you. 320 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:49,000 You got to show conviction to the team that this is the right 321 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:52,640 decision so that everybody comes on board with that decision. 322 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:57,960 But in your heart and your mind you, you're aware that that 323 00:18:58,000 --> 00:18:59,560 decision may have been the wrong one. 324 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:02,440 You just don't really know 100%, but you have to act. 325 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:05,680 See if it's 100%, otherwise you can't get people on board. 326 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:07,440 Right. And then let's say the 327 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:10,000 decision's wrong and data shows up where it is wrong. 328 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:12,520 What do you do to pivot or to adjust and how do you handle 329 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:16,560 that? Well, stay calm, that's the most 330 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:20,480 important thing. And just talk through it as just 331 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:25,600 just be very transparent about about it and it's OK to admit 332 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:28,440 mistakes. I I I have never had a problem 333 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:34,680 admitting mistakes and I've never understood the the the 334 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,400 issue about admitting mistakes and and and and learning from 335 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:38,680 it. Because you're you're showing 336 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:42,200 the others that you're you're human and you have the ability 337 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:45,640 to learn and people like to hang out with and work with people 338 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:48,440 who are still evolving. I don't. 339 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:51,360 Nobody wants to hang out with somebody who thinks they are no, 340 00:19:51,360 --> 00:19:54,160 not evolving anymore. That's like it's not it's not a 341 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:59,320 good mind to work with and and so that that it's important to 342 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:00,920 show others that you're still growing. 343 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:05,480 Otherwise, you're used to act like you're just people would 344 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:07,560 just think you're a Dick. Yeah, 100%. 345 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:11,120 So let's talk about obstacles and adversities. 346 00:20:11,120 --> 00:20:13,840 Can you mention or share with us some stories or any kind of 347 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:15,920 obstacle where you had to overcome it or hit some 348 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:17,720 adversity? And how do you handle that? 349 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:21,760 Because I know many people fall off the deep end by all means. 350 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:24,800 Yeah. So with respect to business I 351 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:28,160 assume. I think look I've used to I 352 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:32,400 started my career as an attorney then it became a banker and now 353 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:39,200 I'm in technology and I know that a lot of people understand 354 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:43,640 especially millennials and Gen. ZS, they they don't have this 355 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,640 mindset of like sticking to one career for the rest of their 356 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:50,160 lives. And so I was I'm I'm glad that I 357 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:52,920 was able to I'm still technically and like licensed as 358 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:58,080 a lawyer but I was able to mentally make the shift from 359 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,800 going from law to banking to technology and I didn't see 360 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:05,120 myself as a one trick pony and all of these things. 361 00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:12,120 So with respect to career advice, anybody who's watching 362 00:21:12,120 --> 00:21:17,920 this show, if they're in a career that they're getting 363 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:19,960 bored of or they don't particularly think they're 364 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:23,880 flourishing or they're doing well but they want to change, I 365 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:26,200 would really encourage it. Don't think that you're just, 366 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:29,080 you know, once you're an accountant and that's it, you're 367 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:31,680 an accountant or once you're this, that's it, that's your 368 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:33,880 thing. It's OK to experiment. 369 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:39,520 It's really good for the mind to take on things that you don't 370 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:42,760 fully understand. That's how your brain develops 371 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,600 just as you go to the gym and you're working out your muscles. 372 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:49,680 The mind is the same way, and so jumping on different professions 373 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:53,560 is like a great cognitive workout. 374 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:56,600 That's so powerful. I love that. 375 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,520 So final question for you, Sam, what is the best piece of advice 376 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:02,880 you'd like to share with the audience with your 30 year old 377 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:05,920 self? I think I share that. 378 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:08,800 Just just just be careful with who you hang out with because it 379 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,000 really has an impact. Don't don't believe in your 380 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:18,680 ability to be immune to the humans you hang out with. 381 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,400 You are much weaker than you think. 382 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:27,480 The mind is a very soft Jelly tissue and the only control you 383 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,360 have is the situations you put yourself into. 384 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:34,920 So if you're in a situation with with a bunch of bad folks, you 385 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:38,320 will become, just through osmosis, one of them. 386 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:42,040 Even if your mind is very strong, that your mind is not 387 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:44,960 strong, your mind is just going to absorb the environment that's 388 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,840 around you. So the only control you have is 389 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:49,680 the environment you put yourself into. 390 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:51,680 I love that. And if you're in a good 391 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:52,880 environment, you're going to do better. 392 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:54,960 It's like playing, you know, tennis, for example, against 393 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:57,200 somebody who's five years old. You're not going to prove your 394 00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:58,760 game. But if you play against a pro, 395 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:00,360 hey, guess what? You get a little bit better 396 00:23:00,360 --> 00:23:01,800 every time. So that's. 397 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,080 Yeah, it's good. It's good in your 30s it's good 398 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:06,400 and 40s. It's good to. 399 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,440 And 20s try to hang out with people who are who are better 400 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,360 than you, smarter than you. But I have to say, there comes a 401 00:23:12,360 --> 00:23:17,760 point where that game gets a little old and it's OK to hang 402 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,520 out with people who are not. And that's you don't have to 403 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:22,320 hang out with people who are better than you all the time 404 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:23,520 there. There comes a point where you 405 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:29,080 just want to be at peace with the world and and but just hang 406 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:32,920 out with good people because for obvious reasons. 407 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:34,560 Yeah. And you can also mentor the 408 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:38,120 other ones as you got stage and then it evolves become the next 409 00:23:38,120 --> 00:23:41,640 person and so on and so forth. Well, Sam, this is fantastic. 410 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,120 Thank you so much. Bit Digital is your company, the 411 00:23:44,120 --> 00:23:47,760 ticker symbols BTBTI. Love what you guys are doing and 412 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:49,120 hopefully we'll be on again soon. 413 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,440 Thanks for sorry. Thank you so much for having me. 414 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:53,200 My pleasure.