1 00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:05,080 And welcome everyone to another Smart Money Circle episode. 2 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,560 I'm Adam Sarhan. With me today is Terry Bernard, 3 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:11,560 who's the CEO of Kaijen, which is ticker symbol QGEN. 4 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:14,840 Terry, thank you so much for taking the time and welcome to 5 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:17,720 the Smart Money Circle. Thanks for having me, Adam. 6 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:20,800 Terry, I always like to begin. Can you please tell us your 7 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:22,840 story and how you got to where you are today? 8 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:26,680 Sure. Interestingly enough, PIRATS and 9 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:30,480 Qiagen is a company dedicated to molecular biology. 10 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:34,720 I'm not a scientist myself, however, more than 20 years ago 11 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:41,560 I discovered and I believe I had a call in for life science and 12 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:45,680 biology and diagnostic. I was very intrigued and amazed 13 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:49,040 by the power and the value of the combination between 14 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:53,560 engineering, biology and chemistry and bioinformatics. 15 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:58,080 And therefore I've spent the last 20 years of my life in 16 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:01,880 healthcare, life science and diagnostic, in different 17 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:06,440 positions of different management scope, strategy, 18 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:09,880 sales, a lot of marketing, investor relation. 19 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:15,400 I was preparing myself to become ACEO and I've done that across 20 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:18,920 many geographies. I've been working and living in 21 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:25,520 Europe, in the US many times, but also in Asia Pacific, China. 22 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:31,000 And that broad perspective, that international perspective is 23 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:36,640 really shaping also the way I lead Kaijin today by relying on 24 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:41,880 many empowered people all over the world and making decision as 25 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:45,280 close as possible to customers. I love that. 26 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:49,720 So by the way, I also love biotech companies and anything, 27 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:52,400 anyone or anything that's working to help humans live 28 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:54,920 better and healthier. Please and thank you with a 29 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:56,560 cherry on top. So thank you very much for the 30 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:59,040 work you're doing. Let's talk about the business. 31 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:01,800 Please tell us what you do at Kaijin and and some of your 32 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:06,560 competitive advantages. So for the last 40 years, Kaijin 33 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:10,280 has been dedicated to develop solutions for research, 34 00:02:10,479 --> 00:02:14,280 academia, but also clinical laboratories, pharmaceutical 35 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:17,360 companies based on molecular biology. 36 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:22,400 So I don't want to get too technical today, but it's very 37 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:27,920 worth highlighting that biology has been going through a 38 00:02:27,920 --> 00:02:32,680 revolution in the last 40 years, and this is called molecular 39 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:37,600 biology. The ability to target the DNA or 40 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:42,560 RNA of any kind of Organism to develop a solution. 41 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:48,680 And it's fair to say that in this field of molecular biology, 42 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:52,960 Adam, there is really a before and after Keyogen. 43 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:56,200 It sounds arrogant, but why do I say that? 44 00:02:56,240 --> 00:03:01,360 Because before Keyogen, any researcher, any laboratory 45 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:05,480 wanting to do molecular biology had to go through a very 46 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:13,800 tedious, complex workflow having many rooms because DNA flies, 47 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:16,800 you see. So contaminations happen a lot 48 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:20,280 of the time. And then came chiogen with a 49 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:28,880 very standardised way of extracting and isolating nucleic 50 00:03:28,920 --> 00:03:35,000 acid in your sample, whether it was a blood sample, a Schwab 51 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:38,760 sample, any kind of sample. And we did that with a very 52 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:41,200 simple device that was very standardised. 53 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:49,640 And this was a revolution for any researcher, any clinical lab 54 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,880 in the world. As a matter of fact, Adam, we 55 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:59,840 are very proud of Qiagen that more than 35 Nobel Prize winners 56 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:06,000 are using Qiagen solutions. That's fantastic. 57 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:08,480 Congratulations. That's really, really fantastic. 58 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:12,360 So you were able to take molecular biology, use the RNA, 59 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:15,280 help people basically to open source if I understand you 60 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:18,320 properly, anyone doing work and use your technology to improve 61 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,880 the DNA testing and help find solutions to problems through 62 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:24,320 that, Is that correct? Absolutely. 63 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:28,880 Three years ago I was invited to Cambridge in the UK to give a 64 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:32,960 kind of presentation on the future of diagnostics. 65 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:37,200 And I had an audience of roughly 400 PhDs from all over the 66 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:39,280 world. And I started the presentation 67 00:04:39,280 --> 00:04:41,040 with one single question. Simple. 68 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:43,880 Who in this audience knows Sky Agent? 69 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:47,720 I had 400 hands raised. This is amazing. 70 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:54,920 You will never, never meet the PHDA researcher in biology 71 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:57,560 telling you that they don't do Sky Agent because they all have 72 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:01,160 used that fantastic product for sample technology. 73 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:05,080 Then obviously over the years we developed other solutions, but 74 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:09,200 that ability to leverage our positioning in sample technology 75 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:13,240 to then take market position in other molecular biology 76 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:15,400 application is a fantastic leverage. 77 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:17,960 I, I absolutely love that. Congratulations on that. 78 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:21,640 That's super, super fantastic. So let's talk about a few things 79 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:22,760 here. Let's talk about risk 80 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:24,800 management. How do you handle risk as being 81 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:29,040 in the biotech space for 20 plus years, and what are some lessons 82 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:30,600 you've learned about risk management that you'd like to 83 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:35,080 share with the audience? So let's start by saying that 84 00:05:35,280 --> 00:05:40,080 Chiogen is the typically what I call a midcap company, very 85 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:41,880 dedicated. I love focus. 86 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:46,080 I love focus. We develop molecular tools for 87 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:49,520 research, academia, clinical pharma, biotech, even law 88 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:56,920 enforcement authorities. And so when I say midcap, it's 89 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:01,240 around 6000 employees all over the world, $2 billion revenues. 90 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:04,280 We are listed in Europe, we are listed in the US, We are a 91 00:06:04,280 --> 00:06:10,120 member of the DAX index. And so since we are very global, 92 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:17,640 obviously we do not live in a isolated island. 93 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:23,840 We follow the economic evolutions, the political 94 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:28,960 evolution, and so one of the first risk management for me is 95 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:33,440 focus. When you are a midcap, you need 96 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:36,680 to invest especially your research and development effort 97 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:41,480 into where you can take between the number one and the number 98 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:46,600 three position on the market. If you cannot prove that you can 99 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:51,240 get those position #1 to #3 it's going to be a tough batters. 100 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:55,000 Why? Because below those position you 101 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:58,560 will face bigger companies, those kind of fights, they end 102 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:04,920 up in price war and the mid cap never wins a price war. 103 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:08,000 And one of the good thing with that focus is that we have a 104 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:11,880 pricing power. The second is diversity. 105 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:16,200 We cover a tremendous range of potential customers. 106 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:20,320 In fact, we are talking about more than 500,000 customers 107 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:22,760 every year. What I mean by this, it's 108 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:27,280 research lab, academia, as I said before, pharma company, 109 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:31,800 clinical, private or public laboratories, even law 110 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:34,720 enforcement. You would be surprised to know 111 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:40,040 that in forensic in forensic activities, identification of 112 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:45,600 body, identification of sexual assault, one Kyogen product is 113 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:48,480 used every 24 seconds in the world. 114 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:52,000 Wow, wow. That's that's big. 115 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:55,680 That's very, very big. OK, So from a risk management 116 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:57,320 standpoint, what you're saying is a lot of people get 117 00:07:57,320 --> 00:07:59,440 distracted. It's very easy to look at the 118 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:01,760 next shiny object and Bing, Bing, Bing, Bing. 119 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:05,360 Your superpower is stay focused on the highest priority, the 120 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:08,000 highest ROI activity, and then go down from there. 121 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:13,040 You focus, you focus in a limited number of activities 122 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:15,920 where you can take the leadership, you focus on 123 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:19,320 profitable growth. Growing is nice, but you need to 124 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:21,760 grow profitably. If you look at the PNL of 125 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:24,920 Kalajan, it's one of the most, if not the most competitive 126 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:28,160 among our peers. And as you said, you focus on 127 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:31,920 the ROIC as well. I mean, whether you invest into 128 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:36,000 new merger and acquisition, whether you invest into organic 129 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:40,480 development or even by acquiring your own shares, you need to be 130 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:45,440 driven by that obsession with return on capital invested. 131 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:47,240 Yeah, I absolutely love it. OK. 132 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:49,400 Let's talk about the next question would be, let's talk 133 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:51,880 about timeless lessons that you've learned that you'd like 134 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:53,160 to share with the audience, please. 135 00:08:55,160 --> 00:09:02,800 But I think I'm coming to an edge then that for me, the main 136 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:06,600 lesson is always stay close to people. 137 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:15,680 Humility, humility, the fact that you can be the CEO of the 138 00:09:15,680 --> 00:09:20,200 company, but when you have the courage to admit to your team, 139 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:23,360 but I don't know it all, It's not because I'm the CEO that I 140 00:09:23,680 --> 00:09:27,600 know it all. So humility, empathy, I know 141 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:32,320 that empathy sometime is a very, it's not considered to be a 142 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:35,160 business value for me. It's a business value because 143 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,800 obviously we have different assets at Cajun, but one of our 144 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:44,440 main assets is our people. And with all those people are in 145 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:50,920 Mexico, in China, in Germany or in the USI want to be close to 146 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:53,040 them. I want to have constant 147 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:57,480 interaction to understand what are their daily challenges? 148 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:02,760 Why are some process potentially in in the company in our company 149 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:04,720 do not work anymore? Why do we need to change them? 150 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:08,360 There are many things that they see at that level that I will 151 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:10,480 not see anymore. At the same time, there are many 152 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:13,240 things that I see that they don't see and that combination 153 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:17,720 by staying close to them is is really important. 154 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:24,160 Last but not least, I tend to always tell my team we are #1 at 155 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:29,040 Kya Gen. in many activities said it's good to be #1 but there are 156 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:31,920 two challenges coming. Being with being number one, you 157 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:34,640 become very easily complacent and arrogant. 158 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:38,200 I hate those. I hate those especially 159 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:42,440 arrogance and complacency. So if you look at our company 160 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:46,320 today, even where we are #1 we continue to invest in research 161 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:50,400 in, in and development to keep that edge and to maintain that 162 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:52,960 leadership position. Absolutely love it. 163 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:54,240 Yeah. I, I, I think that's really, 164 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:56,880 really brilliant because a lot of people in your shoes or as 165 00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:00,320 they're growing the, the ladder, they kind of almost don't even 166 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:03,400 pay attention because of that arrogance or that ego to where 167 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:05,440 they were or other people supporting them. 168 00:11:05,680 --> 00:11:08,440 But the fact that you're at that 30,000 view foot, you can see 169 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:11,560 things that they can't see and they can't can see things that 170 00:11:11,560 --> 00:11:13,080 you can't see. The fact that you get close 171 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:15,200 there is, is brilliant. So absolutely. 172 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:16,840 Well, super, well done. So I'm like 2 people playing 173 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:18,920 chess. The third person can see moves 174 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:21,160 that those two can't see because they're they're in it. 175 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:22,760 The other guy's not in it because I love. 176 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:27,080 That absolutely Adam, but also for me, if I may, it's 177 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:32,800 absolutely paramount to spend time on the shop floor, you 178 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:35,720 know, people behind the manufacturing line, the 179 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:38,840 production line. So anytime I'm in Europe or in 180 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:41,720 our sights in the US or in China, I make sure that I spend 181 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:45,720 time or so on the shop, spending time on the on the field, you 182 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:49,600 see with our people in the trenches fighting everyday is to 183 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:53,000 provide our customers with solutions. 184 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:58,880 So spending time with customers, that's why the worst you see is, 185 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:03,520 is stop listening to customers. I know that there is a cliche of 186 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:06,920 companies organising meeting when you have an empty share and 187 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:09,240 this is the customers. We are not doing that occasion. 188 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:12,280 But I can tell you there is no single meeting of relevance 189 00:12:12,560 --> 00:12:15,120 where customers are not giving their input. 190 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:17,560 I absolutely love it. OK, beautiful. 191 00:12:17,680 --> 00:12:20,200 So and that speaks to the humility part and I absolutely 192 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:20,800 love it. OK. 193 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:22,960 The other side of that question would be the mistakes. 194 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:25,920 What are some timeless mistakes either you've made you see other 195 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:27,840 people make, and how do you learn from them so you don't 196 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:33,920 keep repeating them? You know the drivers for Kyogen. 197 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:36,840 The market drivers are incredible. 198 00:12:40,680 --> 00:12:43,880 The population in the world is aging so that we need more 199 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:45,680 tests, more research. We are there. 200 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:51,760 We are in a field where innovation creates new growth 201 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:55,240 horizons. I would say on a yearly basis, 202 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:59,520 just a few examples, who was talking 10 years ago about 203 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:01,880 liquid biopsies? You see now it's becoming a 204 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:05,680 standard in oncology. We are there. 3 years ago, 205 00:13:05,680 --> 00:13:08,640 people starting to pay attention to what we call minimal residual 206 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:10,960 diseases in oncology. We are there as well. 207 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:15,800 What do I mean by this? When you are living in such a 208 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:21,440 dynamic environment, one potential mistake once again is 209 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:25,800 to spread the company to fin. You see the power of innovation. 210 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:28,560 It's key to invest in innovation, but at the same 211 00:13:28,560 --> 00:13:34,000 time, OK, it has to pay off. I can have hundreds of 212 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:38,960 scientists at Kaizen going into different fields of innovation. 213 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:44,320 At the end, it needs to create a very coherent Errandy, aiming at 214 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:46,120 once again driving profitable growth. 215 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:50,240 So the main mistake for me is spreading a company to Fin 216 00:13:50,680 --> 00:13:55,800 clearly and forgetting. Forgetting, as I said before, to 217 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:59,280 remain very close to people. I believe that companies that 218 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:04,400 are very hierarchical, where the weight of the hierarchy is 219 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:06,760 preventing people from taking initiative. 220 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:09,200 Those companies are dinosaurs. They are dead. 221 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:12,400 I'm not at the top of the pyramid, Adam. 222 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:17,680 I am merely at the center of a circle and my role is to pass 223 00:14:17,680 --> 00:14:19,760 information at the speed of light. 224 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:23,640 Absolutely love it, and that's nice to your earlier point too 225 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:27,080 about being focused. Absolutely. 226 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:32,040 Once again, you see here $2 billion revenues. 227 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:37,640 It's not small, but it's not huge. 6000 people. 228 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:41,640 How do I see those two numbers? We have an obligation. 229 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,680 We have an obligation to remain extremely agile. 230 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:50,480 If a company of our size is not agile, it would be a disaster, 231 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:52,520 especially in that volatile environment. 232 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:56,600 You see wars in some geographic regions, hyperinflation at the 233 00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:00,480 time, economic uncertainties, financial incentives, discussion 234 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:04,080 around funding for research. We need to be extremely agile. 235 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:10,720 We need to be able to shift the direction in 1/4. 236 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:15,720 At the same time, we need to always keep sense of long term. 237 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:19,000 We have a vision. We invest where we believe it 238 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:21,440 creates value for our shareholders. 239 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:26,360 And I believe, Adam, I fully respect we are listed. 240 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:32,400 So I fully respect the market. But you do not assess the 241 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:37,040 quality of a company on the yearly result, let you know, let 242 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:40,560 alone on the quarterly result. However, Kaya Gen. will 243 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:44,480 celebrate now. I think it's our 25th or 26th 244 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:50,520 quarter on guidance, both on the top line of our and on DPS and 245 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:52,320 that sense of execution is key as well. 246 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:54,720 Yeah, I absolutely love that. OK, that. 247 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:57,080 And then by the way, that's a great point too about, about, 248 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:01,400 OK, phenomenal. So next question, I'd like to 249 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:04,040 talk to you about leadership. I love what you said about the 250 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:05,520 hierarchy. I love what you said about not 251 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:07,720 having it to top me, having circles instead. 252 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:10,320 What makes a great leader? What are some lessons about 253 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:12,440 leadership that you'd like to share with the audience that we 254 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:15,000 haven't already discussed? And anything else about the 255 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:20,400 subject of leadership, please. It's very simple. 256 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:27,560 A leader needs to remain approachable and I want to make 257 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:33,320 it clearly known and fair at Kya Gen. that anybody in the company 258 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:39,600 can approach me, can send me an e-mail, can send me a message. 259 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:43,600 Challenging also, I'm not here to recruit yes men. 260 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:46,680 If I recruit yes men, it's the end of this company. 261 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:53,000 I want also to surrender myself with people that are much better 262 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:58,680 than me and what they do. So, so approachability is is 263 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:02,120 clear this sense again of staying close to your people, 264 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:08,000 making sure that you always make them see that you understand 265 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:11,720 that challenge that you are not. You said before 30,000 feet, I 266 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:15,800 might for some strategic views, obviously, but they need to feel 267 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:19,839 that I understand that challenge and I can try to help them 268 00:17:20,079 --> 00:17:24,839 fixing them as well. And last but not least, it's 269 00:17:24,839 --> 00:17:29,400 setting clear directions and then you empower your people. 270 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:34,320 I believe in Empower. This is, by the way, an action 271 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:37,520 plan and the program at Kyogen, which is now lasting for the 272 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:40,800 last six years. And we constantly challenge 273 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:43,080 ourselves whether we empower our people in. 274 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:47,840 I prefer someone who is going to make a mistake once, not twice. 275 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:51,160 Obviously then they know the consequence to someone that is 276 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:53,520 not doing anything and that's clear for me. 277 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:56,640 Yeah, that is so, so powerful. OK, beautiful. 278 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:59,440 And then next question, I guess I want to ask you about 279 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:01,360 adversity. So becoming successful, you have 280 00:18:01,360 --> 00:18:04,160 to overcome adversity. How do you handle adversity and 281 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:06,360 what are some obstacles you had to overcome along the way? 282 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:13,600 You know, when I was asked to take over the Kyogen company was 283 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:16,680 in a kind of term, it was at the end of 2019. 284 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,640 It was a change of CEO. The previous CEO had been CEO 285 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:23,120 for 15 years, you see. So people were used to him. 286 00:18:23,120 --> 00:18:32,560 Obviously, I announced that we were dropping one of our massive 287 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:36,120 research and development program because I think it was necessary 288 00:18:36,120 --> 00:18:41,360 to do so for the company because again, I believe in focus and so 289 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:45,360 and COVID was starting. So, so basically it was a very 290 00:18:45,360 --> 00:18:56,720 teaching, but I believe you face adversity by being really 291 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:58,880 transparent and straightforward with people. 292 00:18:59,960 --> 00:19:05,520 I think I always tell our kayageners, this is how we call 293 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:09,560 our team, our Kayageners. We are far from being a perfect 294 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:11,280 company. And I explain why. 295 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:15,880 I want them also to be savvy, to be knowledgeable. 296 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:20,520 Different things like finance for non financial, it's a 297 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:23,320 compulsory training at Kayagen. If you don't follow that 298 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:24,920 training, you're not part of the team. 299 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:27,840 For the people that are not scientists, biology for non 300 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:30,320 biology, this is a compulsory because I want everybody from 301 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:33,560 HR, from finance to understand what we are doing. 302 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:36,960 And last but not least, for example, in the last three years 303 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:41,880 we created an artificial intelligence University of Kazan 304 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:45,720 and everybody it's compulsory has to go there as well, 305 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:47,800 including myself, including the executive committee. 306 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:53,200 So you face adversity by recognizing your weakness and 307 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:57,720 trying to address them one by one, by being transparent with 308 00:19:57,720 --> 00:19:59,880 people, with feeding them, with information. 309 00:20:00,120 --> 00:20:02,680 How do you want them to take decision if they don't have the 310 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:07,840 information, even information that hurts, I don't believe or 311 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,400 we shouldn't share that. No, we share it. 312 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:14,320 We share it because we gave them the knowledge to understand, to 313 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:17,600 understand. So and last but not least, I 314 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:21,000 come back to the same. Stick to your focus. 315 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,600 When you are a vision, things are not necessarily going to 316 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:28,600 happen in three months sometime. I said we need to be agile, but 317 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,640 sometimes it takes a bit more than to move the boat you see 318 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:35,040 and to turn the ship around. But but as long as you have that 319 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:38,720 vision and and focus and you are telling the truth, you can 320 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:40,720 navigate and wither a lot of challenges. 321 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:43,400 Absolutely love it. That is that's brilliant. 322 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,360 So, OK, final question for you today Terry, is what is the best 323 00:20:46,360 --> 00:20:49,440 piece of advice you'd like to give the audience or your 30 324 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:57,080 year old self? The main one is is leave your 325 00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:02,600 ego in the courtroom you see and surround yourself with people 326 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:06,240 that are much better than you in what they do. 327 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:13,160 Diversity is important. I absolutely insisted that my 328 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:16,680 Executive committee, we are a German headquarter company and I 329 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:21,160 have a deep respect for our roots in Germany, but I didn't 330 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,640 want our Executive committee to be only Germans working from 331 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:26,840 Germany. So we have people at the 332 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:32,560 Executive committee based and located in the US, in Europe, in 333 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:36,120 different countries in Europe, that diversity is very 334 00:21:36,120 --> 00:21:38,160 important. And last but not least, 335 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:42,560 curiosity, curiosity, curiosity. I think if there is something 336 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,560 that I share a lot with our team, apart from the vision, the 337 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:53,080 results and where we need to go next is a lot of of books to 338 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,640 read, article to read. Because keeping our antennas 339 00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:00,680 wide open all the time is a key success factor and the condition 340 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,000 for survival. I absolutely love it. 341 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,600 Well, Terry, thank you so much for sharing all this wisdom with 342 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:07,160 us. Congrats on all your success. 343 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:09,920 Hopefully next time we speak, you'll be a large cap company 344 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:11,760 because you're right there and knocking that door. 345 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,000 And this is absolutely, absolutely fantastic. 346 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:15,320 Thank you so much for taking the time. 347 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:17,200 Thank you, Adam. Thanks for the time.