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And welcome everybody to another
smart money circle update. 

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I'm Adam Sarhan. 
With me today is Howard Wilson, 

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who is the CFO, the Chief 
Financial Officer at Pager Duty.

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The ticker symbol is PD. 
Howard, thank you so much for 

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taking the time and welcome to 
the Smart Money Circle. 

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Thank you, Adam. 
I'm delighted to be here, so how

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would I always like to begin? 
Can you tell us your story and 

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how you got to where you are 
today? 

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Yeah, I I have a little bit of 
an unconventional story, Adam. 

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I didn't start out my career in 
the finance track. 

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In fact, my background was 
software engineering. 

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So I started my career writing 
code, which was seems like 

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decades aons ago in terms of 
when they all began. 

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But along the way I actually 
found that I had a real passion 

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for solving problems, whatever 
they were, from a business 

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consulting perspective. 
So I really consider myself, you

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know, fortunate to have had a 
career where. 

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I went from the engineering 
track into consulting into 

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project Management into 
Technical Support management 

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into operations management I've 
had. 

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Roles as the head of operations 
in large software companies to 

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also then being a C 00, being a 
Chief Commercial Officer. 

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And so interestingly, at page 
duty, my initial role was really

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Chief Commercial Officer 
covering a whole range of 

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functions because we were a 
smaller company back then. 

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When I joined page of duty, we 
were, you know, less than 50 

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million in annual recurring 
revenue. 

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This is like 7 years ago. 
I sort of had a very broad 

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portfolio. 
And then inherited finance along

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the way and then before our IPO 
back we IPO in 2019, April 2019,

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the year before that I was 
acting CFO and our CEO said like

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what would you think about 
stepping into the role 

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permanently? 
And so I did and I love it. 

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I love it because I think that 
the CFO role has certainly 

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become one that's very business 
focused and understanding how do

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you optimize the business. 
How do you deal with investors? 

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How do you deal with customers? 
And that's what I love about, 

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but a great journey. 
So let's talk about Pager Duty, 

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the business itself. 
Please give us a general 

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overview and then any 
competitive advantages that you 

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want to share with the audience,
please. 

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Good. 
So Page Duty is a digital 

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operations management platform. 
Companies use us to be able to 

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manage their digital assets or 
digital properties in order to 

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ensure that they can deliver a 
great customer experience. 

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So this means that we have 
26,000 organizations on our 

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platform today and within that 
26,000 we have some very small 

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companies to 68 of the Fortune 
100 to nearly half of the 

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Fortune 500. 
And these are companies that are

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relying on us to be able to help
them ensure that if there is a 

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potential issue with their 
digital application or their 

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digital website that they're 
able to respond in a timely 

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fashion and they're able to 
respond before customer even 

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knows that there's an issue or. 
That if there is a problem that 

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they can respond really quickly 
and orchestrate the right people

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to solve the problem. 
So our software automates 

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everything from the the 
diagnostics through to the 

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resolution of an issue. 
And this has become critical for

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large organizations because 
managing risk and being able to 

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manage any kind of failure in 
the business has become critical

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if you're a in travel and 
hospitality or media and 

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entertainment or online. 
Commerce or financial services, 

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being able to deliver that 
perfect customer experience is 

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key. 
So we pride ourselves on being 

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an enterprise SAS company that 
helps our customers be 

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successful in driving their 
business. 

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I love it. 
And Howard, I want to 

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congratulate you and the entire 
team because I'm a growth 

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investor by training. 
I love finding undervalued 

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growth stocks and your earnings 
have been explosive. 

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You took the company was losing 
mine the first few years, which 

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is normal now with contract to 
be positive in 2324. 

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Estimates are expected to 
explode for EPS, if I'm correct,

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from about four cents this year 
to 64 cents next year and then 

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the 76 cents the year after. 
That's a, it's stunning. 

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I mean overwhelmingly, I mean 
one of the strongest in growth 

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from a percent standpoint that 
I've seen and God knows how 

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long. 
You've got almost 1500 and plus 

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percent growth year over year. 
Earnings are up triple digits, 

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sales are up double digits each 
of the last four quarters. 

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You've got really good pretax 
margin. 

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I don't want to get too deep 
into the weeds here, but just 

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hats off, I mean super. 
I mean, you've got explosive 

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growth going forward. 
Yeah. 

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Thanks so much, Adam. 
I think you know we have as a 

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company and as a leadership team
always focused on how do we 

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balance growth with 
profitability. 

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We've always felt very strongly 
about being able to run on our 

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own scene. 
And so we've been very 

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programmatic in terms of 
thinking about how do we 

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actually move that company as 
we've grown from when we IPO 

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around 100 million to now over 
400 million in revenue to as you

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say being from a on an adjusted 
basis being negative to now. 

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Being positive, this will be our
second year and you're right 

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like over 1000 basis points 
improvements even from 23 to 24.

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I mean congratulations on that 
success because once the market 

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environment catches on, you're 
going to see just, I mean at 

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least my opinion, but OK, 
beautiful. 

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So next question, we spoke about
risk briefly. 

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Can you talk about risk, how you
handle risk and what are some 

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lessons you've learned or 
mistakes you've seen people make

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and or you've made and how you 
avoid them and all that fun 

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stuff? 
Yeah I always think you know 

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managing risk is about balance 
right. 

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And and why I say that is there 
is a human tendency to always 

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Orient towards the worst outcome
and and whilst I believe that 

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you need to understand the worst
outcome. 

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I think you need to always make 
sure that you're looking at the 

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full range of out of of of 
outcomes and then set yourself 

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on what's most likely and and 
part of that experience for me 

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comes from. 
I was with a software company 

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back in 2008 during the global 
financial crisis or as we came 

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to court afterwards, and it was 
a company that actually focused 

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on servicing the mining 
industry, which was hit really 

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strongly by the commodities 
crisis. 

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There was also then this whole 
implosion that was happening in 

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the financial markets. 
And we were in a situation where

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the company had the potential to
because our customers were under

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stress, our customers couldn't 
pay us And we were looking to 

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contemplate like how do you 
manage through that environment 

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and I think. 
And what we did as a leadership 

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team, I wasn't the CFO, but as 
part of the leadership team is 

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we look really carefully at how 
did we prioritize the areas that

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were most important to our 
customers and most important to 

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our employees and try to take a 
balanced approach, which include

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raising debt at a time that 
wasn't all that great to raise 

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debt, but that actually gave us 
the coverage that we needed to, 

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to move forward. 
So I always think that when it 

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comes to risk, it's, you know, 
don't don't allow yourself to 

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only be oriented. 
To the worst outcome, try and 

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make sure that you approach it 
with balance. 

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And I think it's always looking 
at it through the lens of any 

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potential risk to the business. 
It's got multiple stakeholders, 

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right? 
There are multiple people who 

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could be invested in it in some 
way. 

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So you need to think about is 
this a risk for shareholders? 

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Is it a risk for customers? 
Is it risk for company 

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reputation? 
Is it risk for our employees? 

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Is there a regulatory element to
it? 

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And so I think it's always been 
balanced and multidimensional 

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love that finding multiple 
layers of risk is really, 

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really, really critical. 
So next question for you. 

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What are some timeless lessons 
you've learned along the way 

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that you'd like to share with 
the audience? 

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Well, I think one of the things 
that that sort of came to me 

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early in my career was really 
around trying to always draw a 

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line between what you can 
control and what you can't, 

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right? 
And and sometimes it's it's very

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difficult. 
I know even for me as a person 

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always feels a very strong sense
of responsibility. 

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I suddenly almost want to feel 
responsible even for the macro 

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environment, right. 
But I can't control the macro 

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environment. 
But I do know the things that I 

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can control. 
So I think for me a time is less

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and this was from a a manager 
that I. 

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That kind of back in my early 
days as a software engineer, she

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always used to say to me it's 
like, okay, let's try and sort 

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of make a list of what are the 
things that we can actually 

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manage and what are the things 
that we can't. 

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And that sort of set like a 
mindset for me around okay, what

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can I control? 
What can I change? 

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Because there's some things that
I can change and there's some 

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things that I can't. 
And don't focus your energy on 

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the things that you can't 
change. 

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Focus Energy on the things that 
you have the ability to impact 

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and I think even for us as a 
company in this current 

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environment we've we've tried to
take that mindset like we don't 

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control the macro. 
We understand that that our 

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customers are under pressure. 
So we need to think about, well,

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how do we adjust, what are the 
adjustments that we can make? 

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And how can we make them 
quickly? 

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And I would say that's been a 
timeless lesson for me. 

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It's kind of identify, draw the 
list. 

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What's in your control and what 
isn't. 

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Yeah, I love that. 
Especially now. 

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Like you said, the macro 
environment's not conducive for 

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growth stocks. 
We get that. 

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But this too shall pass. 
Just like a hurricane. 

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If you want to stay dry, you 
don't go outside when there's a 

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hurricane, wait for it to pass, 
and then you get beautiful 

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weather when it's over. 
So yeah, that's a really, really

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good lesson. 
Couple that with the multiple 

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levels of risk that you 
mentioned earlier, you're now on

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to something really good because
you're putting framework 

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together for proper decision 
making and how to handle stress 

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and all that fun stuff. 
So that's really, really 

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powerful. 
And I I think, Adam, your point 

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about this too shall pass. 
I know, like I've been around 

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long enough. 
I've lived through multiple 

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recessions and economic 
downturns and through some 

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really great boom times too. 
And so I always have confidence 

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that, you know, the cycle will 
continue. 

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And so I've sometimes explained 
this to, using your hurricane 

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analogy, tell employees as 
though you know this is bad 

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weather that will come right. 
So what you need to do is in the

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good times, before there's bad 
weather, prepare yourself right.

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You have a strong balance sheet.
You've got the company into the 

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right sort of financial profile 
and then you're able to weather 

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that storm. 
But the part when the storm is 

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over, you're in a position to be
able to to then act and be 

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poised for action. 
Yeah, no, I love that. 

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So let's talk about some time 
with mistakes. 

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What are sometimes mistakes 
you've made or you've seen 

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people make, and how do you 
avoid them? 

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Well, I think the one thing is I
have a very strong results focus

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and I think one of the lessons 
that I've learned is that. 

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If you want to be a successful 
leader, you need to balance your

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focus on the task at hand and 
the people. 

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I I feel as though I've become 
very oriented at times where I 

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like what's the result I'm 
trying to drive and you can 

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leave people behind. 
And I think that's a mistake, 

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right? 
And that's something that I know

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for myself. 
I like, have to keep reminding 

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myself. 
And even for, you know, when 

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you're managing people who early
in their careers, sometimes you 

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can forget that what's obvious 
to you is not obvious to other 

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people, right. 
And. 

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If someone is new in the career 
and sometimes you feel, well, 

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I'm repeating myself, but that's
actually okay, right? 

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Because when you repeat 
yourself, you're helping someone

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get the context, you're helping 
them understand what they need 

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to do and that will help them. 
Be with you on that journey. 

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So I I think for myself, that's 
one thing. 

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I'm always trying to strive that
balance. 

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I tell my team, like if I'm 
becoming too task focused, like 

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tell me. 
If it seems as though I don't 

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care, tell me. 
Because I do care like I care 

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very deeply. 
It's like it's part of for me, I

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build a team around people who I
really care about and I want 

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them to be successful. 
But if you become too focused, 

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it could seem as though you you 
you're not paying attention. 

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Yeah, I know, that makes perfect
sense. 

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I love that. 
What about leadership? 

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So it's a perfect segue to my 
next question. 

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What makes a great leader and 
what are some of the best 

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lessons you've learned about? 
Leadership, yeah. 

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I think when I look at some of 
the leaders who I admire and 

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respect, I think that they've 
often had a few characteristics 

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that stand out to me. 
The one is optimism. 

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I think that a strong leader. 
Needs to be optimistic, not 

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unrealistic not kind of the Rose
colored glasses optimism but 

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like a realistic optimism around
like there is a path we can 

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succeed let's let's move 
forward. 

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I also think there's courage. 
I think it's very it's it's hard

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to be a leader in difficult 
times. 

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It's easy to be a leader in easy
times, but when times are 

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difficult, it requires courage 
because you're needing to say, 

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well, I'm actually going to step
past. 

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This and I'm going to have 
confidence in the future and and

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then I think being a good 
leader. 

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The other characteristic is, is 
caring deeply about people, 

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right. 
And that can be whether they're 

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your employees or whether 
they're your customers. 

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It's like center on the people 
that are in that equation, 

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whether they investors, 
customers, suppliers, employees,

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all of those folks because 
that's really what's going to 

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help you connect and and ensure 
that you are bringing real 

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success. 
Yeah, that makes perfect sense. 

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And next question, adversity and
some obstacles. 

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How do you handle adversity and 
what are some obstacles you've 

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had to overcome or you've seen 
other people overcome that you'd

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00:13:38,090 --> 00:13:39,370
like to share with the audience,
please? 

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Yeah, I mean, I think my first 
rule around adversity is don't 

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panic. 
So I often think that it's. 

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Case of when you're when a 
situation is tough or difficult,

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when you're facing some 
adversity, it's like do your 

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best not to panic because and 
and sometimes there's a little 

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bit of a joke around even within
our team about the fact that I 

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can stay calm even under the 
word circumstances. 

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But I've almost sucked myself up
mentally to say look, no matter 

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what the situation is, let's get
a clear assessment. 

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And when I have that clear 
assessment, you know I can, I 

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can move forward and I think. 
Part of dealing with adversity 

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is understanding upfront what's 
important for you. 

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And I know from like a personal 
perspective, when I think about 

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my career, I have considered 
myself really honored and 

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privileged to work with some 
really great leaders who where 

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I've had really strong values 
alignment. 

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And I think that when you, when 
you think about what are the 

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things that are most important 
to you and I, you know. 

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People will often try, try, you 
know, will trot out the things 

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around, Oh well, you know, 
honesty, integrity, which I I 

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00:14:47,530 --> 00:14:48,850
agree. 
Like to me those are table 

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stakes. 
But I think it's often about 

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understanding values, alignment 
with how people deal with 

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people. 
So I think 1 obstacle that I 

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faced is that even when I first 
moved to the US many years ago, 

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I was working, you know, for a 
company with a leader who was a 

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great leader. 
But I realized that that, and I 

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00:15:08,730 --> 00:15:11,610
just moved my family, right? 
And now this is a situation 

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where you come in another 
country and I realized that this

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00:15:15,050 --> 00:15:19,050
was a very capable leader, 
really someone who I respected. 

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00:15:19,490 --> 00:15:23,090
But our way of working was just 
not as well aligned as I would 

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00:15:23,090 --> 00:15:26,330
have liked it to be. 
And I think you know. 

295
00:15:27,050 --> 00:15:29,130
You have an advantage when 
you've been working for many 

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00:15:29,130 --> 00:15:30,690
years and you're an executive, 
right? 

297
00:15:30,690 --> 00:15:33,610
So there's a luxury associated 
with that which you maybe don't 

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00:15:33,610 --> 00:15:37,210
have earlier on in your career. 
But it made me think about well,

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00:15:37,210 --> 00:15:39,530
what were the values that were 
most important to me? 

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00:15:39,770 --> 00:15:43,370
Like how do how do I feel about 
facilitating different opinions 

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00:15:43,370 --> 00:15:46,970
or how do I feel about managing 
an approach and and that can 

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00:15:46,970 --> 00:15:48,930
then lead you to making 
decisions. 

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00:15:48,930 --> 00:15:51,690
Doesn't say that either is right
or wrong, but it's like what's 

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00:15:51,690 --> 00:15:54,210
important for me. 
So I think when you think about 

305
00:15:54,210 --> 00:15:56,250
adversity, it's like, don't 
panic. 

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00:15:56,710 --> 00:15:59,150
And I understand upfront what 
are the things that are most 

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00:15:59,150 --> 00:16:01,070
important to you. 
Yeah, I love that. 

308
00:16:01,070 --> 00:16:03,070
That almost ties back to what 
you were saying earlier about 

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00:16:03,070 --> 00:16:05,110
the control factor. 
We're focused on what you can 

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00:16:05,110 --> 00:16:07,670
control, but somewhat with a 
different flavor of it. 

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00:16:07,670 --> 00:16:10,190
Because it's not so much. 
Yeah, it's just another layer of

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00:16:10,190 --> 00:16:10,790
it. 
I love that. 

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00:16:11,150 --> 00:16:15,870
So before we go on to the next 
question, it sounds like you're 

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00:16:15,870 --> 00:16:20,590
very much focused on the now. 
Do you meditate at all or do 

315
00:16:20,590 --> 00:16:23,750
you, when crisis hits, you step 
back and you notice that? 

316
00:16:23,750 --> 00:16:27,270
Hey, this is happening. 
Let's take a breath and stay 

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00:16:27,270 --> 00:16:30,110
calm here and then focus on what
we can control or however you 

318
00:16:30,110 --> 00:16:32,470
want to, you know, slice it up 
and dice it up. 

319
00:16:32,670 --> 00:16:35,550
But you stay calm. 
Speak a little about that, 

320
00:16:35,550 --> 00:16:38,470
please, because I've noticed 
that's a commonality with many 

321
00:16:38,470 --> 00:16:41,630
of the the C-Suite executives 
that come on the show where they

322
00:16:41,630 --> 00:16:44,110
have this uncanny, yes, they 
have the optimism, which you 

323
00:16:44,110 --> 00:16:47,830
mentioned as well, but also the 
ability to stay calm as bullets 

324
00:16:47,830 --> 00:16:49,630
are flying. 
How do you, what does that 

325
00:16:49,630 --> 00:16:51,390
process look like? 
How do you? 

326
00:16:53,490 --> 00:16:55,730
So I am a person who loves 
walking. 

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00:16:55,810 --> 00:17:00,010
So I I kind of have a goal. 
I walk 100,000 steps a week, 

328
00:17:00,130 --> 00:17:04,010
like that's kind of my minimum. 
And and that is that's almost, 

329
00:17:04,010 --> 00:17:07,010
if you like a bit of a moving 
meditation, although it's not 

330
00:17:07,010 --> 00:17:09,530
structive. 
But I I do that every morning 

331
00:17:09,530 --> 00:17:12,569
and every evening I walk and 
that's kind of my thinking time.

332
00:17:13,210 --> 00:17:16,290
Majority of the time I'm not 
listening to anything, it's just

333
00:17:16,290 --> 00:17:18,650
time to think. 
And I find that that's always 

334
00:17:18,650 --> 00:17:20,650
such a good reset at the start 
of the day. 

335
00:17:20,650 --> 00:17:23,490
It's an opportunity. 
For me to think about what have 

336
00:17:23,490 --> 00:17:27,089
I got to get done sometimes, but
I try and force myself as well 

337
00:17:27,089 --> 00:17:30,010
to think about like okay, Where 
am I now? 

338
00:17:30,010 --> 00:17:32,370
What am I enjoying? 
I mean living in San Francisco, 

339
00:17:32,530 --> 00:17:37,010
lovely city, able to enjoy good 
weather most of the year. 

340
00:17:37,770 --> 00:17:39,850
All those things sort of help 
send to me. 

341
00:17:40,540 --> 00:17:43,500
If they if we are going through 
a difficult time, my go to is 

342
00:17:43,500 --> 00:17:45,180
like I'm going for a walk, 
right? 

343
00:17:45,620 --> 00:17:48,540
Maybe go for a walk because I 
can clear my mind, I have get 

344
00:17:48,540 --> 00:17:53,500
rid of any other stimuli and I'm
able to to to focus on things. 

345
00:17:53,970 --> 00:17:55,570
I love that. 
So I'm a Walker too. 

346
00:17:55,570 --> 00:17:57,890
I mean this is our first time 
that we meet but I found that it

347
00:17:57,890 --> 00:18:02,250
is incredibly, incredibly 
liberating and powerful and just

348
00:18:02,250 --> 00:18:04,530
quieting the mind. 
I don't have my ear pugs in or 

349
00:18:04,530 --> 00:18:06,530
headphones and I see people 
doing, I don't do any of that 

350
00:18:06,530 --> 00:18:09,050
stuff either. 
And yeah, I absolutely love what

351
00:18:09,050 --> 00:18:11,890
you're saying here because it's 
so incredibly powerful to just 

352
00:18:11,890 --> 00:18:16,170
step out and almost like look at
things from a Third Point party 

353
00:18:16,170 --> 00:18:17,410
point of view. 
It was like, what would this 

354
00:18:17,410 --> 00:18:19,330
character do in the movie? 
Type of a thing. 

355
00:18:20,010 --> 00:18:21,810
Yeah, okay, I love that. 
Thank you for that, Howard. 

356
00:18:21,970 --> 00:18:25,450
So let's talk about advice. 
What's the best piece of advice 

357
00:18:25,450 --> 00:18:27,610
you'd like to share with the 
audience or with your 30 year 

358
00:18:27,610 --> 00:18:31,690
old self? 
I think the piece that I would 

359
00:18:31,770 --> 00:18:36,770
share is really around 
understanding that everyone can 

360
00:18:36,770 --> 00:18:39,660
make. 
The contribution I I remember 

361
00:18:39,660 --> 00:18:42,060
early on in my career as well. 
I was working for a small 

362
00:18:42,060 --> 00:18:47,380
software company in South Africa
and one of our managers leaders 

363
00:18:47,380 --> 00:18:48,380
there. 
One of these days that the 

364
00:18:48,380 --> 00:18:53,540
company had given, I was in a 
design session and I was 

365
00:18:53,540 --> 00:18:55,020
listening in. 
I was early in my career. 

366
00:18:55,020 --> 00:18:58,980
I was a little bit nervous to 
say anything and I I had a view.

367
00:18:58,980 --> 00:19:03,420
I had an opinion and and I I 
made the statement I said if I 

368
00:19:03,420 --> 00:19:07,280
could put in my $0.02 worth. 
I'd like to tell you, you know 

369
00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:11,040
what I have to say. 
So John listened to all of this 

370
00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:14,040
and he said, okay, that's great.
And then afterwards he said to 

371
00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:17,960
me, you know how I don't ever 
want you to use the term 2, your

372
00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:20,240
two cents worth. 
And I was like, what have I 

373
00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:21,680
said? 
And he said, well, it 

374
00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:23,920
undervalues your contribution, 
right? 

375
00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:28,200
So you we employed you because 
we felt you had a contribution 

376
00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:31,160
to make from day one. 
And I always want you to think 

377
00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:35,200
about about that always make a 
contribution, don't undermine 

378
00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:38,280
it, always see that you can that
you can do that. 

379
00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:41,880
And I think like for our teams 
and for our people we should 

380
00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:45,720
always create an environment 
where everybody can can have a 

381
00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:48,120
contribution, doesn't matter if 
they're new with the company or 

382
00:19:48,120 --> 00:19:50,680
they've been with the company 
for a long time, doesn't matter 

383
00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:53,360
where they come from. 
And I think that's, you know, 

384
00:19:53,360 --> 00:19:56,680
one piece of of advice that I 
think is. 

385
00:19:57,060 --> 00:19:59,380
Is important. 
And I also think never don't 

386
00:19:59,380 --> 00:20:01,220
feel obliged to stay in your 
lane. 

387
00:20:01,340 --> 00:20:04,660
Like I think I've become a 
public company CFO when I 

388
00:20:04,660 --> 00:20:06,340
started out as a software 
engineer. 

389
00:20:06,740 --> 00:20:09,100
So there's no reason to feel 
that you have to stay in one 

390
00:20:09,100 --> 00:20:11,380
track. 
Be prepared to sort of step 

391
00:20:11,380 --> 00:20:12,700
forward. 
Try something else. 

392
00:20:12,940 --> 00:20:17,100
If people take a chance on you, 
grab it like go and give it a 

393
00:20:17,100 --> 00:20:19,390
try. 
I love that, Will Howard, thank 

394
00:20:19,390 --> 00:20:20,790
you so much for coming on the 
show. 

395
00:20:20,830 --> 00:20:24,630
It's been an absolute delight 
and your stock is in my opinion,

396
00:20:24,630 --> 00:20:27,390
super, super set up for massive 
growth going forward. 

397
00:20:27,670 --> 00:20:29,270
I'm excited to see the earnings 
growth. 

398
00:20:29,270 --> 00:20:33,030
The over 1500% growth year over 
year is fantastic, another 80% 

399
00:20:33,030 --> 00:20:35,070
thereafter. 
So hats off to you and your 

400
00:20:35,070 --> 00:20:37,110
team. 
Ticker symbol is PD. 

401
00:20:37,630 --> 00:20:39,790
People can learn more on Pager 
Duty. 

402
00:20:39,990 --> 00:20:41,870
The website is. 
Let me see that. 

403
00:20:42,070 --> 00:20:45,310
Do you want the IR page or do 
you give the pagerduty.com the? 

404
00:20:45,870 --> 00:20:48,150
Pagerduty.com is good and you 
can navigate. 

405
00:20:48,230 --> 00:20:50,750
To our IR page from there, 
Beautiful. 

406
00:20:50,750 --> 00:20:52,630
Well, thank you so much for 
coming on the show and hopefully

407
00:20:52,630 --> 00:20:54,590
we'll see you on it again soon. 
Thank you, Adam. 

408
00:20:54,590 --> 00:20:56,150
We really appreciate the 
opportunity.