1 00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:05,240 And welcome everyone to another Smart Money Circle episode. 2 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:08,000 I'm Adam Sarhan. With me today is Mike Hayes, 3 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:10,200 who's a managing Partner at Insight Partners with 4 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:13,560 approximately 90 billion in regulatory assets under 5 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:16,720 management and about 600 portfolio companies. 6 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:19,600 Mike, thank you so much for taking the time and welcome to 7 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,160 the Smart Money Circle. And I'm such a thrill to be with 8 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:25,320 you, my friend. So First off, I know you have 9 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:27,320 several books. I'm going to ask you about 10 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:28,600 these. Mission Driven is the most 11 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:30,960 recent one. Thank you, by the way, for doing 12 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:32,680 this. I'm very excited for today's 13 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:35,200 conversation. So before we dive into the book, 14 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:38,440 I want to ask you you, Mike, what is your origin story? 15 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:39,840 How did you get to where you are today? 16 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:42,800 Wow. Well, great, great. 17 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:44,720 Such an easy question that it gets hard. 18 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:47,840 The where do we take it? I'd say, look, I'm a person who 19 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:51,200 grew up in a family of service and I've lived a life of, of 20 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:54,720 what I described as hundreds of once in a lifetime experiences. 21 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:59,880 20 years in the Navy Seals and retired for in 2013, moved to 22 00:00:59,880 --> 00:01:02,600 hedge fund for four years, a technology services company for 23 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:05,760 four years, a technology product company for four years and now 24 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:07,520 currently at Insight Partners as you note. 25 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:09,880 So I like to say I'm a master of nothing. 26 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:13,640 I've I've really a very broad eclectic background and I'm 27 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:15,400 really passionate about sharing and giving back. 28 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:18,200 Well, thank you very much for your service, number one. 29 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:20,160 Number two, I'm very interested about the defense side and 30 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:22,280 switching over to the money side of the investment side. 31 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:25,880 So how did that come about? Well, look, after 20 years in 32 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,560 the Seals and having the privilege of, of also running 33 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:31,120 defense policy and strategy for President Bush and President 34 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:34,320 Obama, my last role in the Seals was commanding officer of a SEAL 35 00:01:34,320 --> 00:01:35,480 team. And I ran everything in 36 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:37,920 Afghanistan. You know, I've really seen lots 37 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:41,440 of different facets of, of, of the public sector. 38 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:46,160 I felt like the, the, a lot of people know the public sector or 39 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:48,400 the private sector, but very few people know both. 40 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:51,560 And I was very passionate about being able to speak multiple 41 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:53,720 languages, both public and private sector. 42 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:57,200 And so, you know, I, I, I'd say really for me, the, the 43 00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:59,840 transition after running a SEAL team and everything in 44 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:02,480 Afghanistan and leaving my wife and daughter for six months or 45 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:06,880 more 7 times during my career, I, I was ready to hang up the, 46 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:09,720 the proverbial skates and, and move into the private sector 47 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:13,480 and, and follow the kind of the, the dream and the path. 48 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:16,640 Understood. So, OK, let's talk about Insight 49 00:02:16,640 --> 00:02:18,400 Partners. Please tell us about your 50 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:22,320 business and what you do, your investment strategy, anywhere 51 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:24,040 you want to go, please. Sure. 52 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:29,080 I'm proud to be 1 of several partners at Insight Partners. 53 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:32,000 That is an enterprise, an organization, an institution 54 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:36,680 that's been around for 30 years and invest in software. 55 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:44,040 It's, it's B2B software and for the most part, the, my role, 56 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:46,680 just like all the partners, is to just go out and do what you 57 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:50,000 think the best thing for the firm is, which means simply, you 58 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:52,800 know, going to find the best deals, funding the best deals, 59 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:55,760 helping our companies scale and then exiting and returning 60 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:58,520 capital to shareholders. And so it's, it's really fun 61 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:00,120 because it's a little bit different every day. 62 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:03,720 And I get to work around the absolute best and brightest. 63 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:07,840 And I get pulled up and learn from all of my teammates that, 64 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:10,160 that I work with. And hopefully on on some days, 65 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:11,640 every once in a while I'll help pull them. 66 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,280 I love that. So let's talk about the the 67 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:17,960 business in more detail. So you invest in the software 68 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:20,680 companies as a private equity or you said mentioned earlier hedge 69 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:23,320 fund as a public markets. Please speak a little about the 70 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:25,800 actual investment strategy, what you're looking for, all that fun 71 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:26,200 stuff. Sure. 72 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:28,800 It's all private markets and it's stage agnostic. 73 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:31,480 So generally it's a it's a growth oriented shop. 74 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:35,360 So what we'll look for is metrics like high gross 75 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:38,040 retention, meaning that, you know, we generally think that a 76 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:41,440 software company has great product market fit when it's not 77 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:43,200 churned earning and losing customers. 78 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:47,400 And and then of course, growth, we're looking for things that 79 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:51,640 have hit their inflection point. So we're, we're not investing in 80 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:54,200 the seed round, but but post that, you know, we can come in 81 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:59,560 when we see some of that really hefty, you know, 3050100300 82 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:03,000 points of growth and then and then enter and then really get 83 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,320 passionate, not about just like writing a check, but saying 84 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:09,120 what's our unique advantage to help an organization scale? 85 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:11,720 A lot of times it's, it's just thinking about having been a 86 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:14,440 large enterprise person myself is to be able to put that 87 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:17,720 enterprise lens on and say, Hey, here's what these young 88 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:20,800 companies need. Because I've been that CEO of VM 89 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:23,920 Ware where we, we, I constantly had small companies approaching 90 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:26,160 me. I, I have the ability to kind of 91 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,200 put myself in their shoes and say, gosh, what's it like to, to 92 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:32,840 try to land that first really big logo, the big enterprise 93 00:04:32,840 --> 00:04:34,680 partner that's gonna really help you scale. 94 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:37,920 Because ultimately, I think, you know, technology is really a 95 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:40,160 means to an end. A lot of people look at 96 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:43,360 technology as the thing. I think technology is really the 97 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:45,840 best way to elevate societies. And so that's what we're really 98 00:04:45,840 --> 00:04:47,920 passionate about is creating value in the world. 99 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:50,840 And then the economics follow. I love that. 100 00:04:50,840 --> 00:04:52,080 So let's talk about risk management. 101 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:54,880 How do you handle risk and what are some mistakes you see people 102 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:56,360 make with respect to risk management? 103 00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:00,000 Well, I think, look, let me actually draw from my SEAL days 104 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,160 to think about risk management. You know, when I'm a commander 105 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:05,240 of a SEAL team and I'm running everything in Afghanistan, first 106 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:07,040 of all, we've prepared really well. 107 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:10,280 And so before we even go overseas, I've worked with a 108 00:05:10,280 --> 00:05:13,880 group of people that know how to think about risk and say what is 109 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:17,680 a very simple framework? What's the outcome you're trying 110 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:20,160 to achieve? Then how do you determine all of 111 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:24,000 the different paths that can get you to that outcome and mitigate 112 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:27,280 away as much risk as possible along those paths and then 113 00:05:27,280 --> 00:05:29,240 choose one of the paths? How do you have a decision 114 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:33,440 making process to choose a path and and then just go execute 115 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:37,400 really well to make it happen? So I, I think the first decision 116 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,360 in decision making isn't it, it actually isn't the decision 117 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:42,080 itself. It's when do you make a 118 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:43,680 decision? Because a lot of people get that 119 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:45,520 wrong. Decisions that you need to make 120 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:49,000 in two seconds might actually could be made in two weeks or 121 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:50,600 vice versa. And I think a lot of people in 122 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,240 my career I've seen get that when wrong. 123 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:55,680 And it's really an important part of the framework. 124 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:58,240 No, I'd love that. OK, thank you for that. 125 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:01,400 And then before I go into some more questions, I'd like to 126 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:02,760 speak about your book, by the way. 127 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:05,640 So thank you for writing it. Please let us know a little 128 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:07,680 about it and what we just can expect from it. 129 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:12,200 Oh, thank you for look, I never aspired to write one book. 130 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,320 I had a book never enough come out in 2020. 131 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:18,320 I've, as mentioned, been consider myself super privileged 132 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:23,560 to live this life where I've had all of these amazing experiences 133 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:26,360 and some really, really terrible and hard experiences as well. 134 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:30,920 I've as a seal of 20 years, just like every seal of my era, I've 135 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:32,560 been shot at, I've been rocketed. 136 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:35,320 I've, you know, jumped out of a building rig to explode. 137 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:38,400 I've amputated a teammate's leg on an operation. 138 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:41,440 I could go on and on. And, and that's not different 139 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,520 than anybody really who lived through some of the Iraq and the 140 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:47,520 Afghanistan experiences. And so, you know, from all that 141 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:49,520 I'm really passionate about giving back. 142 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:54,480 And so I, I felt after a lot of like near death experiences and 143 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,640 whatnot, like I, I have something that can offer people 144 00:06:57,640 --> 00:06:59,360 a way to think differently and to help. 145 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:01,560 So that's really why I wrote the book. 146 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:04,400 And then I donate all the profits to a charity that I 147 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:07,360 started that pays off mortgages for Gold Star families. 148 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:11,200 Those are families of, of military members who were killed 149 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:14,080 in action or who died by suicide thereafter. 150 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:17,160 And, and I'm really proud to say that I've paid off my foundation 151 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:20,840 has paid off 12 Gold Star family mortgages to date. 152 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:24,320 And and so then coming off of the first book, I had so many 153 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:27,920 people ask me things like, Hey, Mike, I love the book, but like, 154 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:31,880 help me understand how do you really think about mission and 155 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:34,520 meaning and purpose and impact? And what is that? 156 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:38,240 And so I, I I find in life, and I'm sorry, I'm droning on. 157 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:40,600 My wife and daughter will confirm I'm really good at one 158 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:42,800 way conversation. So please, Adam, cut me back 159 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:43,440 off. You're. 160 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:44,960 Doing great. Keep going. 161 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:48,280 You're doing great. All right, the, the I'll, I'll 162 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:52,400 stay on the on the roll here. But the, you know, as you're, 163 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:56,320 as, as you're thinking about advice, generally speaking, when 164 00:07:56,320 --> 00:08:00,400 people give advice, their advice is that you should do what I did 165 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:03,520 because I'm the smartest person I know or like I, I didn't make 166 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:05,360 any mistakes. I'm all one big success. 167 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:06,960 Therefore what I did is what you should do. 168 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:10,000 And I'm really like, that's just not the way to think about life. 169 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:12,080 There's bias that gets entered into there. 170 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:17,640 And so I think about how do you transition in, in, in different 171 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:21,320 jobs or trying different things that, that really are meaning 172 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:24,080 and impact and purpose. And so because I've had so many 173 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:27,280 of those conversations, I just decided it was easier and, and 174 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:30,200 way more impactful to write book #2. 175 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:32,000 I was privileged to have three months off. 176 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:35,480 But after the sale of VM Ware into Broadcom for $69 billion, I 177 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:38,880 had three months and I put my head down and, and really wrote 178 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:41,840 Mission Driven. Proud to say it was came out on 179 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:45,240 September 2nd and it his first week debuted as #4 across, 180 00:08:45,560 --> 00:08:48,320 across all books. And, and so it's, it's been 181 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:50,080 great. But I'm, I'm really the, the so 182 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:53,920 proud of being able to hopefully help people who read it and then 183 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:55,560 of course, to pay off more mortgages. 184 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:58,120 I absolutely love it. Well, thank you very much for 185 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:00,240 the donation, thank you for the charity, thank you for the work 186 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:02,040 you're doing, and thank you for sharing your knowledge with the 187 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:03,840 book. So in that vein, we want to 188 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:05,800 continue with the timeless lessons here, which is the whole 189 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:08,120 point of the show. Let's talk about some timeless 190 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:11,680 lessons you've learned, Mike, in life and Navy Seals and in 191 00:09:11,680 --> 00:09:13,760 markets and business. Anywhere you want to go, please, 192 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:15,400 that you'd like to share with the audience? 193 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:19,000 Well, gosh, Adam, that's another really good broad one to make, 194 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:21,680 making it so easy that it gets hard for me because there's so 195 00:09:21,680 --> 00:09:22,960 many different directions we could go. 196 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:24,880 But I think, you know, you just really put your finger on an 197 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:28,480 important thing, which is risk. If you think about risk and 198 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:31,880 opportunity are both very similar because usually in an 199 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:35,800 organization, all of the risk or all of the opportunity lives in 200 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:38,400 kind of that classic unknown, unknown quadrant. 201 00:09:38,680 --> 00:09:41,800 Like when I speak to executive teams and I walk into a large, 202 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:46,440 you know, Fortune 515 person executive team and I say, you 203 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:48,960 know, who here is in charge of what you're not doing. 204 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:52,240 No one raises their hand because we're all so busy. 205 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,640 We've got all kinds of emails flooding our inbox and pulls on 206 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:58,200 our time and people who want mentorship or that letter of 207 00:09:58,200 --> 00:09:59,600 recommendation and blah, blah, blah. 208 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:05,040 So to be able to slow down and think about how organizationally 209 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:07,920 do you get into that unknown, unknown quadrant and pull things 210 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:10,400 into the known and put them in front of you and understand 211 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:14,400 risk. And so I think that the the best 212 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:19,760 organizations systematically have people who who are whose 213 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:22,400 job it is to figure that out and think through that as the 214 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:24,760 commander of a SEAL team, you know, when I was in the 215 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:28,400 operation center, I would walk in and I was the person to 216 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:31,280 decide when we drop bombs from an aircraft onto the ground and 217 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:33,160 what operations we went on, etcetera. 218 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:36,600 These are decisions you cannot get wrong because you can't harm 219 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:41,240 people who shouldn't be harmed. And so you know, the, the, the 220 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:43,880 framework, I think one of the things that your audience might 221 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:46,720 find helpful is to say, well, gosh, how what's the framework 222 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:48,280 for that kind of decision making? 223 00:10:48,680 --> 00:10:54,040 And so I would share that that it's important as a leader to 224 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:58,480 separate being the input and being the decider because out of 225 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:02,560 1000 plus times that we dropped ordnance from a fighter jet down 226 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:07,160 or any sort of an aircraft onto the ground, if you know, if that 227 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:12,280 decision was me 100% of the time, we, we, we, we would have 228 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:15,040 been wrong some number of times because no single human is 229 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:16,280 perfect. And so you're designing a 230 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:18,960 system. And so if my decision is always 231 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:22,000 the equal to my input, you've now you've now introduced 232 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:25,760 absolute error into the system. So what that means though, is 233 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:28,120 that sometimes your decision needs to be different from your 234 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:30,280 input. And how does a leader be able to 235 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:32,960 say, you know what, my final decision is different than my 236 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:36,200 original input? And that takes humility, that 237 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:38,480 takes getting into that. You know what, we just talked 238 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:40,240 about that. What are you missing? 239 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:43,440 What are you not thinking of? So I'll tell a quick story. 240 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:47,760 This is 2012, when I'm running everything in southeastern 241 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:50,760 Afghanistan. And there was a SEAL platoon who 242 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:53,760 was getting shot at and rocketed and all kinds of heavy machine 243 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:57,520 gunfire and, and they chased these, I don't know, I would say 244 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:02,400 it was roughly 6 Taliban fighters into this building who, 245 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:04,560 who had just tried to basically kill these Seals. 246 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:09,200 And so the Seals called in for, they, they had the, they called 247 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:11,880 in for an air strike. And in order to minimize risk, 248 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:14,240 why go into a building and expose yourself to risk when you 249 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:18,080 don't need to? And, and, you know, it was, it 250 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:21,320 was an example of a decision that I, with all the information 251 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:23,520 that I had, would say, have said yes. 252 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:29,280 Now I also turned to my public affairs officer and my, my 253 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:32,880 lawyer who was in, in the operation center with me in the 254 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:34,880 headquarters. I was not on the mission itself. 255 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:37,400 I was in the headquarters 20 kilometers away. 256 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:39,480 And I said, hey, you know, what do you think? 257 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:43,200 And these are not 2 roles of people who SEAL commanders 258 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,760 typically say, hey, Miss public affairs officer or Mr. you know, 259 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:49,000 lawyer, what do you think? This is a SEAL decision, You 260 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:53,160 know, so it takes a bit of like humility to say what, what do 261 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:55,360 you think? And the, the answer was, I 262 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:57,920 wouldn't do it because of XYZ. And the other person said I 263 00:12:57,920 --> 00:12:59,960 wouldn't do it because of, you know, ABC. 264 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:03,960 And ultimately I said, you know what, let's not approve this 265 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:07,720 particular air strike. And I radioed that information, 266 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:09,760 had the, the, the, the information radio back to the 267 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:12,080 SEAL platoon. They, I'm sure weren't happy, 268 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:15,360 but they followed orders and walked away from the, the 269 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:19,560 building and came back home. But about 10 minutes after the 270 00:13:19,560 --> 00:13:23,360 SEAL platoon pulled away from the building, Adam out walked. 271 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:26,720 Must have been 12 or 15 women and children along with those 272 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:29,120 fighters. And I just like even to this 273 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:32,800 day, even retelling the story, I can feel it right now of having 274 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:36,600 like the relief of not having harmed innocent civilians. 275 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,280 Like what if my decision was the same as my input? 276 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:43,400 I would have failed. Yeah, I think that is extremely 277 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:47,600 powerful and brilliant, by the way, where we all have the, I 278 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:49,960 guess, strengths, weaknesses and then blind spots as well. 279 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:52,720 But we have an input capacity and we have the information in 280 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:56,280 front of us and we don't, we can't see everything and the 281 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:58,000 perception you can, it's limited. 282 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:02,480 So for you to get outside input is extremely valuable and 283 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:04,400 intelligent because you can't. You're human. 284 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:06,080 We all have flaws, strengths and weaknesses. 285 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:08,720 So very well done. Hats off to you. 286 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:12,320 I love that explanation. All right, other side of that 287 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:15,160 coin, like risk and opportunity, lessons and mistakes. 288 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:17,600 What are some timeless mistakes you've learned or you've seen 289 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:19,480 people make along the way? How do you learn from them so 290 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:23,120 you don't repeat them? Let's let's continue with the 291 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:25,240 SEAL example. I mean this also applies to any 292 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:27,440 business investment decision. This could be a portfolio 293 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:28,920 company that we didn't do as well with. 294 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:32,920 This could be a SEAL mission, identical, identical process 295 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:35,600 here. First of all, clarity of the 296 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:38,360 outcome is, is like I said earlier is really important. 297 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:42,080 If I handed a three by 5 card to those top 15 people from that 298 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:46,080 Fortune 500 and said I want you to write down the vision of your 299 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:50,680 organization, the 1st 50% would converge, the next 25% would 300 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:53,760 start to drift a little bit and the last 25% would be all over 301 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:56,200 the map. And so the best organizations, 302 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:59,520 elite organizations, elite people drive convergence around 303 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:01,760 the goal. And so, you know, being able to 304 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:04,080 finish each other's sentences on what you're supposed to be 305 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:07,640 doing. So we do that pre mission. 306 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:10,440 But then after the mission to the heart of your question, 307 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:14,200 Adam, is we spend time debriefing really, really 308 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:18,800 thoroughly what went wrong. And so, you know, we, we, we, if 309 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:21,680 I would take you and pull you into our team room after one of 310 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:24,560 those missions that went exceedingly well, but you didn't 311 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:26,080 know the outcome. If I said, you know, you don't, 312 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:27,760 you don't get to know if it went well or poorly. 313 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:31,080 And you just listen to our two hours, Adam, you'd be like Mike, 314 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:34,160 you know, you guys are are are a three ring circus. 315 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:36,920 You're just missing the tent. You know, because we spent all 316 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:41,120 of our energy and our effort going after the parts of what 317 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:45,440 can be better. And so the you you need an 318 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:49,880 exogenous pressure, an exogenous force to come in and say, all 319 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:52,160 right, here's what I would do differently. 320 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:55,920 And The thing is to understand that No2 situations are ever 321 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:58,000 going to be alike. So you really have to be at that 322 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:01,040 deeper Y kind of level. You know, you're never going to 323 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:05,360 have, you know, the exact same macroeconomic conditions or the 324 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:08,880 same like moon illumination of the moon on the seal mission. 325 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:12,640 And so like everything, do you get in there and say, OK, here? 326 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:15,120 What are the timeless things that you can reapply later? 327 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:17,800 And, and you say, well, don't just tell me what you think, 328 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:19,360 Tell me how you thought about it. 329 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:23,040 You know, working at Bridgewater for four years, one of the 330 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:26,640 things I took away from there was really a, a framework that 331 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:29,720 my friend Greg Jensen uses. He's the chief investment 332 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:31,960 officer at Bridgewater. And he, you know, said, Mike, 333 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:34,880 this is like when I asked what you think about something. 334 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:37,520 Don't just tell me your opinion. Frankly, I don't care about your 335 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:39,040 opinion. I want to tell it like, what 336 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:41,840 data are you looking at? What's your logic you're looking 337 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:43,040 at? And then what's your opinion? 338 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:45,440 Then we can have one of, you know, three different 339 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:47,800 conversations and Mike, you're looking at the wrong data. 340 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:49,360 I disagree with the data you're looking at. 341 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:51,880 We might, we could hammer that out and say, no, I'm right, 342 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:53,880 you're right. We can, you know, get on the 343 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:58,560 same page there or you say, Hey, I think my, my logic's different 344 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:00,200 than yours. Like I, I actually think you're 345 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:01,760 thinking about the logic the wrong way. 346 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:05,480 Or the third thing is when you apply your logic to your data, 347 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:08,200 it and it, it doesn't, I don't think lead you to A, it leads 348 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:09,319 you to B. And let's have that 349 00:17:09,319 --> 00:17:11,400 conversation. And so being able to separate 350 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:16,119 and be surgical about the, the, you know, the success or the 351 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:19,520 root cause of a, of some of the failure, I think is really 352 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:21,200 important. And then ultimately where that 353 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:25,160 leads you is at the end of a meeting, at the end of a mission 354 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:28,480 or meeting or or an investment, and you look in retros and do 355 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:31,840 that retrospective, you can say who should have done what 356 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:34,000 differently. You know what, what, what would 357 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,080 I have done differently if I could have? 358 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:39,360 If you do a debrief and everybody in that meeting walks 359 00:17:39,360 --> 00:17:41,400 out and wouldn't have done everything, anything 360 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:44,440 differently, you've just failed as an organization because you 361 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:47,000 haven't had the right conversation or you haven't had 362 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:51,080 the humility to actually intellectually say, oh, I, I 363 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:53,440 would do something different. Because a lot of us think like 364 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:56,160 the, the, the bad outcomes are because Adam, you're a dummy. 365 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:57,440 Like I'm the smartest guy I know. 366 00:17:57,440 --> 00:17:58,920 You're the dummy. You should have done something 367 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:00,960 differently. No, start with yourself. 368 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:04,480 I don't care. I'm either 100% wrong or 1% 369 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:07,400 wrong. I'm never 0% wrong like I, I 370 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:12,160 grow and I benefit if I can be really honest about my 100% of 371 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:14,560 the of the error or by 1% of the error. 372 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:17,440 But getting underneath that is what we do as seals really, 373 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:18,800 really well. And that's one of the things 374 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:21,520 that I think coming to the investment world, a lot of 375 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:23,840 organizations take very seriously, and then the best 376 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:26,840 ones do that really well too. Yeah, I think that's that's 377 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:28,440 very, very smart. It's the why, right? 378 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:31,000 Not just the what's happening, but why you think, why did you 379 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:33,400 come to that decision? And let's find those blind spots 380 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:35,480 like Dalio talks about in the strengths and weaknesses, so on 381 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:37,880 and so forth with the humility too that you've mentioned 382 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:41,720 multiple times. And it's been a, a common theme, 383 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,320 Mike, over the years now I've interviewed over a trillion 384 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:47,120 dollars in AUM on the show and hundreds of public, you know, 385 00:18:47,120 --> 00:18:49,400 money management, publicly traded CE OS, all this fun 386 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:52,080 stuff. And I've noticed that it's just 387 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:55,640 a common theme, the optimism, the humility, knowing that 388 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:57,880 they're wrong, they're foul, they're going to make mistakes 389 00:18:57,880 --> 00:18:59,520 for humans. And that's OK. 390 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:02,160 I think it's just a huge, huge game changer for me. 391 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:04,440 That's just jumped out of me. So I love the fact that you're 392 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,600 repeating these themes. So let's talk about leadership. 393 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:11,560 If let's go there, let's you know what makes a great leader. 394 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:13,680 What are some lessons you've learned about leadership that 395 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:14,920 you'd like to share with the audience? 396 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:16,600 And anything else you want to discuss about leadership, 397 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:17,800 please. Well. 398 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,600 One of the things that I think is that leaner leaders gain 399 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,760 authority by giving it away. You know, and, and so if you 400 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:27,840 think about like if I'm running Seal Team 2, the best thing I 401 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:30,840 can do is help everybody in the organization feel like a leader. 402 00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:34,440 Leaders don't need to make the best decision. 403 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:37,080 They need to make sure the best decision gets made. 404 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:39,880 Those are very, two very different ways to think about 405 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:43,280 leadership. So when you like, if, if the 406 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:47,120 organization's success is my success, all I need to make sure 407 00:19:47,120 --> 00:19:50,040 is that the the organization collectively makes the best 408 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:51,840 decision. You know, sure, I'd love to 409 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:54,760 stand up on stage and beat my chest, chest and say how cool I 410 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:56,640 am. And when I'm younger and, and 411 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:59,680 like, oh, I'm so smart. Like the sooner you don't need 412 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:04,120 any personal credit or any sort of personal, you know, 413 00:20:04,120 --> 00:20:07,960 recognition, the faster your path and trajectory to success 414 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:10,800 that like your organization needs that. 415 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:14,640 And so I think that I like to say leaders need to know how to 416 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:18,160 lead and how to follow, but the most important is knowing when 417 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:20,960 to do which. I think that leading from the 418 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:23,560 rear is really the mark of a great leader. 419 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:27,160 Then you get the opportunity to step in and course correct your 420 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:31,680 organization when you need to. But but by and large, your your 421 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:34,440 ultimate success is stepping back and not needing to 422 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:37,720 intervene. You know the So I really think 423 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:41,080 you know, Adam, the most important thing is that that as 424 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:44,880 that leader, do you have the ability to see somebody else's 425 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:49,720 success and praise him or her? A corollary to this is that, you 426 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:52,520 know, I think the world thinks of success and failure as 427 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:56,160 binary, but you have to go down the failure node one more the 428 00:20:56,360 --> 00:20:59,440 the failure leg of the tree, one more node and say, did you learn 429 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:01,440 or not learn? Because if you failed and you 430 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:05,680 learned, you just succeeded. If you failed and and learned 431 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:09,000 and brought that that knowledge back into yourself and to your 432 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,800 organization, that's ultimately success. 433 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:17,800 So, and the reason I think a lot of enterprises or organizations 434 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:22,520 don't encourage that behavior is because the individuals in these 435 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:27,400 larger, you know, places are afraid to assume a little bit of 436 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:29,120 what they perceive as career risk. 437 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:33,040 If you classically fail, you know, like the and you don't go 438 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:35,360 down that node one more time. It's like, why am I going to go 439 00:21:35,360 --> 00:21:39,440 try the hard thing when I can stay on the easier path and, and 440 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:42,240 all of the growth, all of the learning, all of the compounding 441 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,080 of your organization's knowledge only happens if you fail and you 442 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:48,840 learn at VM Ware when I was doing, you know, town halls for 443 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:53,920 a 40,000 people or whatever, I would remind people that we can 444 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:56,520 lose any million or $10 million deal. 445 00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:58,240 We can't. Like we don't want to, but we 446 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:00,920 can. And The thing is, if we lose a 447 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:06,320 deal, that's OK as long as we, we learned why did we lose it? 448 00:22:06,360 --> 00:22:10,360 And then we, we recompound, reintroduce that knowledge so 449 00:22:10,360 --> 00:22:13,440 that the next salesperson or the next person developing the 450 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:16,880 product, you know, it like thinks about how you're, how 451 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:20,400 you're ultimately serving your customers and you fix what just 452 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:22,840 happened. Yeah, this way you don't repeat 453 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:24,200 it, right. So I think that's that's really 454 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:25,720 fantastic. So I love what you said. 455 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,240 Leaders don't need to make the best decision. 456 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,520 They need to make sure the best decision gets made. 457 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:33,640 Did I say that correctly or did I miss something? 458 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:36,040 Love it. All right. 459 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:37,680 And then of course, learning from your mistake, because if 460 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:39,720 you make a mistake and you learn from it doesn't happen again. 461 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:42,000 That's not really a failure. In fact, that's actually a 462 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,120 lesson. That's a, that's AW, it's a win 463 00:22:44,120 --> 00:22:45,720 because you learn from it. It's not going to happen again 464 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:47,280 and you can make better decisions going forward. 465 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:49,200 Totally. But what you need to do is is 466 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:53,560 culturally encourage and celebrate people who classically 467 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,440 fail and learn. Because that's why that's what 468 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:58,160 most people and organizations get wrong. 469 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:00,160 Yeah, beautiful. I love that. 470 00:23:00,360 --> 00:23:03,360 All right, so after leadership, let's talk about adversity 471 00:23:03,360 --> 00:23:05,040 becoming successful. Another common theme I've 472 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:08,080 noticed over the years, leaders and successful people overcome 473 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:09,520 adversity. They handle it differently. 474 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,000 Lots of other folks. So how do you handle adversity 475 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,120 and what are some obstacles you have to overcome along the way? 476 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:18,200 Well, look, the beauty of going through SEAL training is that at 477 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:23,040 age 21, my my SEAL class started with 120 guys and 19 graduated. 478 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:28,320 All 120 had the physical prerequisites or to to get 479 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:30,560 through training. It's 100. 480 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,520 Adversity and resilience is 100% mental. 481 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:38,040 So when things get really hard, do you have the ability to focus 482 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:41,400 on others before yourself in SEAL training, when you're at 483 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:43,920 the absolute edge of a human misery, you're in the cold 484 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:46,040 water, like shivering in your body temp. 485 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:50,480 You know, it's not 98.6, it's it's probably, you know, 9394°. 486 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:53,400 And you know, you're just jackhammering, shivering so 487 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:54,800 hard. And you have no idea when you 488 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:59,040 get to get out of the ocean. Do you have the ability not to 489 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,680 feel sorry for yourself, but to look at the guy next to you and 490 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:03,880 say, hey, how are you doing? Are you OK? 491 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:08,720 And there's a saying team, teammate self and, and can you 492 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:13,200 think of that team first and foremost, your teammate next and 493 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,720 then yourself last. That really to me is the special 494 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:20,520 sauce of, of, of being awesome together. 495 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,640 You know, our, our daughter's 24 years old, but when she was 496 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,920 younger and in school, I remember speaking actually out 497 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,280 of veteran's day in like 7th grade social studies. 498 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:34,520 And the, the, the teacher said, or excuse me, I asked the class, 499 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:39,240 Hey, you know that when 2 of you are paired up, how much of each 500 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,000 to do a project? How much of the project do you 501 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,920 each need to do? And of course, all the hands 502 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:46,440 went up. I called on the first student 503 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:48,960 and then they said 50%. And I said, Nope, sorry, no, 504 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:50,480 that's not right. I'll explain in a second. 505 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:55,320 The rest of the hands came down. And the, the, the answer is when 506 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,440 two people need to get something done, the amount that I need to 507 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:00,960 do is as much as humanly possible. 508 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,200 Because then when two people come together and they have that 509 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,360 mindset and that mentality of I'm going to do as much as I 510 00:25:07,360 --> 00:25:10,120 humanly can, that is when you really become elite. 511 00:25:10,120 --> 00:25:13,400 And that's what a lot of, you know, people and teams miss. 512 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,200 Yeah, I absolutely love it. It's it's not even how much can 513 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,240 I do. The bare minimum is 50% if not 514 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:20,880 less than that. Let the other person do 80 or 515 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:22,720 90. This is the exact opposite. 516 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,640 My instead of how do I go the maximum, what's the most I can 517 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:27,240 do? And the other person does a lot 518 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:31,120 and then 1 + 1 = 5 or 3 or 50 or whatever the case is and it 519 00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:35,600 compounds there. Yeah, that like the parallel in 520 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:37,880 the white I was in both the Bush and the Obama White House. 521 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,640 Is that at a senior level? And you know, the the common 522 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:42,960 theme across both of those administrations is whenever 523 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:47,720 something needed attention, there were like you say, who's 524 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,280 responsible for this? There wasn't, there were like 5 525 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,480 or 10 hands going up for that one thing because everybody 526 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,040 wanted to have their hand in the hard thing that was needed to be 527 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,160 done. And so that's really a that 528 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:01,120 that's, it's a real special, special when you get to work 529 00:26:01,120 --> 00:26:03,680 around people like that. Yeah, no, I absolutely love 530 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:05,760 that. So let's talk about that elite 531 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,240 supreme, top of 1% kind of mindset, because I'm all about 532 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:10,920 mindset, you know, psychological analysis. 533 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:12,720 Love it. What other things that you can 534 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:16,720 speak about or share timeless lessons about elite performance 535 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:18,520 that you'd like to share with everybody else? 536 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:20,600 I love what you just said about the fact that you come out of 537 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:22,280 the water. It's at the university. 538 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:24,640 Whatever that adversity is, it's freezing, whatever. 539 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,680 Hey, ask your teammate or your team first the team, OK, then 540 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,160 your teammate, are they OK? And then yourself and that takes 541 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,880 you out of that, you know, getting stuck in your head and 542 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,800 and that bubble, if you will. And then you're serving others, 543 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:38,520 you're helping. You can overcome that obstacle 544 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:40,560 so much better. What other you know? 545 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:42,280 What else can you share with along those lines please? 546 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:47,920 Absolutely I would. I would offer you the the the 547 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,520 the my book mission driven. It has. 548 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,240 The next line is the path to a life of purpose. 549 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:58,160 When I think about purpose like that really is what transcends 550 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,000 like this noisy world. I don't care what side of any 551 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,680 issue, you know, half the world's on one side of an issue, 552 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,600 half's on the other. Like purpose transcends all of 553 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:08,760 that. And you know, all of us, I'm, 554 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,640 I'm sure at this point of your, your esteemed audience have, 555 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,680 have done, have hired people. And The thing is, what I've 556 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,800 found in hiring, I don't know, dozens and dozens, hundreds and 557 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:23,360 hundreds, whatever of people over my, my time is that you 558 00:27:23,360 --> 00:27:26,480 can, there are really three circles that matter like what 559 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:28,360 gives someone energy? What are they good at? 560 00:27:28,360 --> 00:27:31,160 And what is the business need? You see, I know what the 561 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,640 business needs like because I'm there hiring for it. 562 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,680 The, the person on the other side of the table always knows 563 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:38,960 what they're good at and usually 30% more. 564 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,040 The thing that people really wrestle with is, well, what 565 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,920 gives you energy? What drives you, what motivates 566 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,880 you? And so the, that explanation and 567 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,120 that description is the hardest. And so when you can align 568 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,640 someone, what gives someone energy with what their role is, 569 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,960 it is a lot less like work. So you know, you, the closer you 570 00:27:59,960 --> 00:28:03,760 can align purpose with, with your, your day job, the, the, 571 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,200 the less, the less it feels like work. 572 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:10,000 And you know, our daughter, I was just talking about her when 573 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,760 she was growing up. My wife and I never said, what 574 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:14,960 do you want to be when you grow up? 575 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:16,720 I always said, who do you want to be? 576 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:18,800 And that's actually the first half of the book, kind of a 577 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,840 weaves through it a little bit. But The thing is, you know, what 578 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,560 is an identity that is associated with a job? 579 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:28,240 That's not who you are. What's your character, your 580 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,320 values, your ethics, your morals, your you. 581 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,040 How do you want to treat people? How do you want to stay calm 582 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:37,000 when things are hard? Like that's your who. 583 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,600 Like those kinds of traits are your deeper things. 584 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:41,040 And so when you say, who are you? 585 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:43,960 If there's one thing I could change in the world, it's people 586 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,440 to be able to say, like Adam, who are you? 587 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,000 Or Mike, who are you? And be able to answer all of us 588 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,560 to be able to answer that. Because I think then that's the 589 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,840 unlock for being able to align the things that we we try and 590 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,640 that we choose to do. Absolutely love it. 591 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,400 OK, I can go on for the different tangent, but I know 592 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:04,080 that we're we're getting short on time here. 593 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,680 So final question for you today, Mike, which is absolutely 594 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:08,760 fantastic so far. Thank you so much for everything 595 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:10,920 you've shared. What is the best piece of advice 596 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,680 you'd like to give the audience or your 30 year old self? 597 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,440 Oh, wow, this is an easy one because, you know, my 598 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,360 grandfather was my hero. He he was at Pearl Harbor on 599 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:25,000 December, December 7th, 1941, just did an incredible American 600 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,880 hero. And he told me a lot of things 601 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:29,040 growing up. But the one that just came to 602 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:32,680 mind was, you know, when you're having a, what he said to me was 603 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:36,240 Mike, whenever you're having a hard day, go find someone who's 604 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,000 having a harder day and help him or her. 605 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,240 Like that's the path through it. That's what resilience is. 606 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:44,400 That's what success is. And you know, I can seem like 607 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:48,040 semi normal, but I carry a ton of weight with all these people 608 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,800 who aren't here and these families and, and, and you know, 609 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:55,360 one of the, you know, I've had lots of really hard days, as 610 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:59,760 have many of my, my team mates. And, and so I think that that 611 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:02,920 lesson, that advice from my grandfather about just going in 612 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,800 to help people is really super important. 613 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:09,680 You know, when I was growing up in the SEAL teams pre 911, it 614 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:13,920 wasn't it was a culture of you only showed strength or 615 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:17,120 perceived strength. You never talked about weakness. 616 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:19,080 You know, you never talked about needing help. 617 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:21,680 That really did change after 911. 618 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:25,120 It took several years past that, but you know, we lost 11 Seals 619 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:29,120 on June 28th 2005. Eight, eight were shot down in a 620 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,280 helicopter, 3 on the ground and became a movie called Lone 621 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:34,360 Survivor. And, and, and I had just 622 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,240 finished grad school in Cambridge, Mass in 05 and I flew 623 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,680 overseas right away and took over for the group that was, 624 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,640 that survived that, you know, and, and, and I knew all the 625 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:45,640 guys that were shot down in the helicopter and whatnot. 626 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:49,480 And so like, like that happened. And then we had another mass 627 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:51,560 casualty in the community a few years later. 628 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:56,960 And so the, the ability to kind of go in and say, Hey, you know 629 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,280 what, I need some help is really important. 630 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,640 Even to this day, Adam, I am not great. 631 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:05,240 I'd love for mission driven, excuse me, mission driven to, to 632 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:06,840 make it far and wide out into the world. 633 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,680 I'm extremely biased, but I, I, I would offer a money back 634 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:11,160 guarantee. Like I'll say it right here. 635 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:15,040 Somebody reads the book and genuinely reads it, like like DM 636 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:17,120 me on Instagram or LinkedIn or whatever and say, Hey, I read 637 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:18,840 your book. It's it's not good and I'll send 638 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,520 you your 20 bucks back. You know, I probably shouldn't 639 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:23,240 say that publicly or something like that. 640 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,880 But but the truth is, I'm so positive and optimistic and up 641 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,520 about it that, that I think that the way to really help people to 642 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:34,480 have that purpose and that energy is to also be able to 643 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:38,160 have them reach in and understand that helping others 644 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,640 helps us more. A lot of people will say, hey, 645 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,080 Mike, thanks for your service. I, I love that. 646 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,760 I love that when people say that and recognize that at the same 647 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:51,640 time, honestly, Adam, I cringe a little bit because I don't feel 648 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,320 like my service is any more important than your service or 649 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:56,720 the next person service. You don't have to have been in 650 00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,960 the military to serve. We all serve each other. 651 00:31:59,960 --> 00:32:02,760 And that's ultimately why I wrote Mission Driven is to help 652 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:06,320 all of us to find out how should, how can or should we 653 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,280 serve each other with the different gifts and abilities 654 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:11,840 and interests that we all have. You know, sure, they make movies 655 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:13,480 about Seals and things like that. 656 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:19,240 And but, but, but The thing is, the real movies are about your 657 00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:23,840 everyday person who is out in the world who can slow down and 658 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:27,160 help the person next to him or her or to get plastics out of 659 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:29,320 the ocean or teach for America or whatnot. 660 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,120 So I know I'm on a little bit more of a of a one way diatribe 661 00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:36,080 here, but but for me, if we could give that, hopefully your 662 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:39,120 audience here is the the energy and the the purpose and the 663 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:42,440 passion that I have really is to help give others the same in 664 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,000 their own ways. And I do I would love I I, I 665 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,120 will raise my hand now and say I'd love for the audience to 666 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:50,800 please help me jump on Amazon or wherever you get books to, to 667 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,920 grab a copy of mission driven. I read the audible again, I 668 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,640 don't make a penny here on any of these sales. 669 00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,920 They all go to the nonprofit that that I just described. 670 00:32:59,920 --> 00:33:02,560 And so, you know, following me on Instagram, this is dot Mike 671 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,320 Hayes or finding me on follow me on LinkedIn or, or any of these 672 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,680 ways to kind of help this mission of helping all of us 673 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:12,520 have our our own missions of purpose and, and really is what 674 00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:14,720 I'm about. Absolutely love it. 675 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:16,360 Well, Mike, thank you so much for taking the time. 676 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:17,680 The book is here, Mission driven. 677 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,720 I'll have the links and to your social links to Amazon, your 678 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,520 other book Never Enough as well. So we'll get both links and 679 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:25,080 descriptions if you don't have to worry about it. 680 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:26,800 And this was fantastic. Hopefully we'll have you on 681 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:27,920 again soon. And Congrats on all your 682 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:29,760 success. Well, Adam, thank you for all 683 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,240 your success and having such incredible impact, building this 684 00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,480 incredible foundation that you have and having all of the the 685 00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:37,520 positive influence and inspiration that you have, my 686 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:38,960 friend. Oh, absolutely. 687 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:40,120 My pleasure. Thank you kindly.