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One. 
And welcome everybody to another

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smart money Circle update. 
I'm Adam sarhan with me today is

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Ken Van leeuwen, CEO and founder
of van leeuwen and Company with 

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approximately 300 million in 
assets under management. 

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Ken, welcome to the show. 
Good morning, Adam. 

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Thanks for having me with you, 
that's my pleasure. 

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Thank you for coming on. 
So, can I always like to begin? 

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Can you tell us a little about 
your story and how you got to 

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where you are today? 
Please? 

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Um, sure it's, you know, as 
people who can see me, but the 

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listeners can't Obviously, but 
the perspective I've been doing 

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this for a while Adam, and one 
of the things was that way back 

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in the 80s. 
Actually, I and a colleague. 

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We were institutional sales 
guys, at one of the major firms 

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that still in existence today. 
Oddly enough and we will working

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with very affluent individuals. 
And we realized that affluent 

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individuals why they could buy a
million two million dollars of 

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municipal bonds a year. 
I had no idea about a mortgage 

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or if they could afford a co-op 
apartment in New York or if they

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could afford to send their kids 
to private school or whatnot and

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that totally blew me away. 
Like the unsophisticated ssion 

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of from a financial perspective,
personal financial aspect of 

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many of these wealthy 
individuals. 

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So we basically he and I said, 
hey maybe we could try to do 

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this on our own Roan and do a 
financial planning firm and, you

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know, financial planning really 
began, let's say in the early 

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80s and this was kind of the 
late 80s, so we said, hey, let's

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give it a shot and we went on 
our own and started this 

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financial planning firm. 
Wow, I love it. 

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So, if you can can talk to me a 
little about your investment 

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strategy, I'm assuming it starts
with the plan, but I don't want 

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to make assumptions because I've
learned the hard way, not to. 

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So, by all means, Well, Adam, 
this is, that's a really great 

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question because yeah, it all 
begins with the plan. 

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You know, when we calculate 
rates of return that people are 

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going to need to obtain various 
goals, right? 

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Like, whether it's sending your 
kids to college or retiring or 

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buying a beach house or anything
Financial, you know, like 

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accumulating a certain amount of
money by a certain amount of 

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day. 
And then we outline and say, 

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well, you need to get a percent 
rate of return on your money. 

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Okay, well, what does a I said 
look like right well it means a 

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certain allocation and then we 
invest accordingly, right? 

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Because one of the things is 
that we want to be very goal 

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focused because it's funny Adam 
just this morning I was talking 

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to one of my clients that I've 
worked with for 34 years and 

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here they are their late 80s and
they're still investing in 

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stocks because they've learned 
that lesson, right? 

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That they've got to learn to 
their money. 

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He has to grow to protect their 
buying power. 

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It's not what they they're going
into their shell and they want 

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to buy bonds after last year or 
anything of that nature. 

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So these folks listen to me. 
So it was actually pretty good 

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but it starts to plan and then 
we make investments accordingly 

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whether it's an individual, 
stocks individual bonds, bond 

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funds stock funds, ETFs 
Alternatives. 

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But It really stays goal. 
Focused on them. 

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Totally, I love that. 
So can let's talk about the plan

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and break that down if you don't
mind or unpack that a little 

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bit, what elements, go into a 
good financial plan and what 

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mistakes you see, people make 
with the planning, Well okay we 

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like in financial planning like 
you're building a house like 

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you're and we actually talk to 
clients like this and it 

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resonates with them or at least 
with ours, right? 

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It's like you were hiring us to 
be the architect of your 

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financial life, right? 
It's like if anyone's ever built

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a home or built an addition or 
built a new bathroom or done 

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anything kitchen redesign, they 
know that they have an architect

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or some kind of designer, and 
they go through a lot of 

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questions in terms of what you 
want. 

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So, when I'm the architect of 
someone's life, I start with the

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foundation, right? 
So, that's why we work in a 

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bunch of different areas of 
people's lives. 

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Tax planning, you know, we don't
do taxes but what we do is we 

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want to eliminate his taxes 
legally as possible. 

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We want to do the stuff that 
people don't like atom, which is

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do you have a will do? 
You'll be surprised about how 

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many folks don't even have Wills
or Powers of Attorney or health 

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care proxies or directives, 
right? 

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Not the fun stuff that you like 
to talk about or insurances, 

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right? 
Because we're based from where 

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fee-based Financial As we don't 
retain, we don't get any 

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commission, we don't sell 
product per se, right? 

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So, but, you know, we want to 
avoid. 

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But life insurance is a very key
need for many, many people write

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or disability, insurance or 
long-term care insurance, right?

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Because and that's all the fun 
stuff. 

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So that's like building that 
Foundation before we even start 

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saying, oh yeah. 
Well you want to buy that beach 

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house at the Jersey Shore or you
want to locate the The Florida, 

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or you want to do this, or you 
want to send your kid to 

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Harvard. 
I mean, you got to make sure all

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these other things are covered, 
right? 

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So that we wanted to do as well,
right? 

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We wanted to make sure and 
that's why we came at it from 

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the financial planning aspect 
because that's what financial 

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planning meant to us, right, is 
to say, hey, we got to cover 

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lots of things before, we can 
get to all this fun stuff, you 

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know, because people only want 
to know about the funds. 

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Hey, should I invest, should I 
buy Airbnb? 

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Should I do this? 
I mean those are all the things 

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that people because that's the 
fun conversation, but a really 

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good financial planner, or 
advisor. 

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Looks at a 360 degree level for 
Pete. 

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And now, I love that. 
So you actually you're covering 

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almost the blind spots and or 
helping people. 

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Look at things that they 
otherwise wouldn't look at this 

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way when they are. 
It comes time to look at the fun

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stuff. 
The stocks the exciting things 

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or the Bonzer ETFs wherever 
they're going to invest the 

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money. 
All the other Bases are covered.

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So it is where the t's are 
crossed. 

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The i's are dotted. 
So to speak. 

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Is that correct? 
Yeah. 

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And also, what you're doing is 
right, you're you're, you're 

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talking to clients because they 
can understand that, right? 

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They a lot, of course, many of 
them exposed to a loved one 

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passing away, right? 
So they understand that 

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unfortunately, right? 
They understand they understood 

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that they, that they don't like 
paying taxes, right? 

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So how can you? 
Oh, help me reduce my tax 

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burden, right. 
Hey understand all that, right? 

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Because I don't know of anyone 
Adam who necessarily likes 

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writing a check to the IRS or 
the state, their state, they 

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live in an April, right? 
Right, right. 

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So think the perspective of it 
is, those are all kinds of 

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tangibles that what you can do 
for folks. 

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And that's what they really do. 
They do get into But of course, 

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then they want to talk about the
Investments, whether that's my, 

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let's go. 
There then, what's next 

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question? 
Please, tell us a little about 

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your investment strategy. 
Once you've got that plan in 

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place. 
How do you invest the money and 

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speak to that a little bit, 
please? 

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Well, one of the things we do is
of course, when we look to 

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invest is we develop an asset 
allocation we divest, you know, 

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develop a what's the percentage 
of stocks versus bonds, you 

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know, and in stocks, for 
example, it could be National 

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stocks, it could be US. 
Stocks could be emerging market 

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stocks could be many things, 
right? 

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So, what is that percentage? 
What's the percentage of bonds? 

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How are we going to get to that?
Are you in a category where 

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maybe you can have alternative 
Investments, such as private 

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Investments, whether its private
Equity or hedge funds or you 

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know, some of the more exotic 
kind of things and then we 

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invest accordingly and And I 
think the most important thing 

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that we do Adam is we report 
regularly to our clients. 

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And what I mean by that is we 
like to say that we're a 

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client's CFO, right? 
Like and a lot of clients 

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because most of our clients are 
corporate Executives, they can 

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relate to a CFO. 
So they know that the CFO is, 

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the money guy in the money guys.
Worrying about are the dollars. 

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It's appropriately. 
Invested, are you getting a 

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return on your money? 
Are you sleeping when you can 

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and that's that's kind of how we
relate to them, right? 

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But the reporting is the key 
thing, because then we can also 

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say, you're on track. 
You're off track. 

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We need to do this. 
We need to lighten here. 

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We need to overweight here and 
client seemed very in tune to 

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that kind of methodology. 
I love it. 

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It. 
So what are some? 

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Let's talk about risk. 
How do you handle risk? 

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How do you define it? 
And what are some mistakes 

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people make with respect to risk
management? 

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Um, Well, first of all, Adam. 
There's a lot of risk 

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management, tools, programs, 
nowadays out there, right? 

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So, you know, you can 
quantifying risk using very 

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different metrics and there's a 
there's a few really good ones, 

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right? 
So where you can show them what 

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risk is from a numerical 
perspective. 

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Well one of the things is, is 
that You really have to talk to 

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clients and that's why what is 
lost to you? 

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Like what is losing? 
For example, what's winning to 

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you, right? 
You have to really get into a 

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tell me, you know, because most 
of our people we work with, have

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experience. 
They've they've invested before.

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What made you happy in your 
prior relationships. 

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What made you unhappy? 
You know, how did it make you 

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feel when Gnu, you know, you 
bought XYZ and you know for 10 

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bucks, a share. 
And it went to zero or how about

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you know, the penny stock you 
bought that you bought ten 

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thousand dollars worth and you 
might as well, throw them the 

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money out the window. 
I mean these these are all 

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things that we talk to clients 
about and then they can relate 

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to that, right. 
And everybody has a story about 

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loss and then you can talk about
well how do you win because you 

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know, There's always that adage 
on the street, right? 

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And it says basically people 
hold on too long to their losers

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and they let go of their winners
early, which is really true 

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Axiom as well, right? 
And again, part of the big thing

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that we like to do in our world 
is we try to, we try to really 

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understand the client 
psychologically and emotionally,

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right? 
And we try to identify them, or 

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Or I won't say categorize 
because I'm not, you know, 

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educated enough from that 
perspective. 

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But we want to learn how they 
work, how they think about 

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money, it's super important to 
me because that's gonna give me 

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sick. 
Then we'll have a better chance 

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of success if I can understand 
that money personality, that 

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right. 
And I think that because as we 

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all know people can sometimes 
try to defeat themselves and 

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that's one of the things that we
want to try to get away from and

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sometimes it involves, you know,
like last year was a great year.

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Adam, we're going through some 
real examples now, right? 

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Where last year, because we came
off 2021, which was a really 

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good year for most Our clients, 
right? 

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We had 22 people didn't seem as 
concerned. 

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As I thought they should be, you
know, with the results. 

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Okay. 
Because they were coming off a 

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good year, they kind of know 
this will pass because remember,

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we've also got conditioned, 
right? 

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We're in covid in 2020, Market 
went way down and then 

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basically, you know, the FED 
started pumping money into the 

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economy. 
And then what happened is? 

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Yeah, there was a bunch of you, 
it doubled? 

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Yeah, right. 
And then we came right, people 

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were all Kind of waiting for 
that again, right? 

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And of course, in 2022. 
That didn't happen, right? 

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So this year and our meetings 
that were having so far, you 

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know, here it is. 
February 15th, you know, clients

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are finally seeing. 
Oh yeah. 

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On paper, I lost money because 
we do a balance sheet for 90% of

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our clients, right? 
So and track order over quarter 

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how their wealth is doing and 
clients for the first time in a 

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00:13:46,908 --> 00:13:50,000
long time. 
Saw the lines going from the top

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left down to the right? 
Yeah, people it finally started 

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to hit home. 
Okay. 

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That wow I have less than I had 
a year ago. 

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Yeah. 
You know, and I think that 

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that's now we've had to regroup 
with clients and say, Hey, you 

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know, but this is what you're 
doing, this is what it's on 

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paper, this is how we're going 
to make progressions, you know? 

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Look, we can show you five years
ago, you're still above what you

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had five years ago. 
So I mean it's interesting 

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because you have to keep 
reminding folks and talking to 

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them. 
I always think is one of the key

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keys and and listening To them, 
which is the most important. 

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See, I think that I learned this
a long time ago, is that Not 

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enough advisors financial 
advisors, really listen to their

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clients. 
I mean, really listen, and I 

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think that's super important and
I'm going to go ahead and take 

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that a step further and just not
just financial advisors. 

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Let's just broaden it out that 
people people just don't listen 

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to each other. 
Well, that's probably true. 

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Adam asked my wife on select 
days. 

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There's like mine. 
I love that. 

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Okay, so let's talk about, it's 
a risk and your investment 

248
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process. 
So you just start with the plan 

249
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just to regroup for listeners 
and then you have the allocation

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process you say, okay? 
Here's the plan, you're the 

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goals. 
Let's invest accordingly. 

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You come up with an allocation 
model that works. 

253
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You reassess every quarter. 
So you stay in touch with 

254
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clients and you take their 
emotional IQ or their 

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psychological IQ or temperature,
however, you want to word it, 

256
00:15:36,300 --> 00:15:38,300
which I absolutely loved by the 
way. 

257
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And then from risk, you want to 
Sure that they're aligned with 

258
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what's actually happening in the
market. 

259
00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:46,200
So they're not they don't wake 
up one day and call you up and 

260
00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:47,700
say, hey Ken, what just 
happened? 

261
00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:49,900
You keep them abreast of the 
situation as things going. 

262
00:15:49,900 --> 00:15:51,200
If you have to adjust, you 
adjust. 

263
00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:53,500
Sure. 
And so far good recap of what 

264
00:15:53,500 --> 00:15:56,500
very good Adam see because Adam 
one of the things that is right 

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when you're working with 
clients, one of the big things 

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that you have. 
As I like to say, you have the 

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brother-in-law syndrome, right? 
And, and what's important is you

268
00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:12,500
gotta learn Learn about the 
brother-in-law because the 

269
00:16:12,500 --> 00:16:18,600
brother-in-law is the guy at the
July 4th party, right eye. 

270
00:16:18,700 --> 00:16:23,300
And he says to your client. 
So how you doing with your, you 

271
00:16:23,300 --> 00:16:25,200
know? 
Yeah, it's wider. 

272
00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:28,800
That you talked about. 
Oh and your client says well you

273
00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:35,400
know we're up 7% this year if he
even knows so he'll say and the 

274
00:16:35,408 --> 00:16:41,100
brother-in-law will say well I'm
up 15%. 

275
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Exactly. 
And so what happens is that then

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00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:48,600
you know, of course also really 
why? 

277
00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:54,700
How did what are you doing that?
I'm not doing And so then a seed

278
00:16:54,700 --> 00:16:59,500
gets planted in your clients 
head that now what we have to 

279
00:16:59,500 --> 00:17:02,600
try to do hey my 
brother-in-law's up, 15%, I'm 

280
00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:04,400
only at seven. 
What am I doing? 

281
00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:09,200
So that's why it always comes 
back at them, to the plan, their

282
00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:14,099
goals, their risk tolerance. 
And it's not just the client, 

283
00:17:14,099 --> 00:17:17,300
it's couples, right? 
Because many husband and wives 

284
00:17:17,300 --> 00:17:21,500
have very different objectives 
and risk tolerances, right? 

285
00:17:21,700 --> 00:17:24,500
So, So, you always have to be 
very mindful. 

286
00:17:26,500 --> 00:17:30,400
At of, as I called the 
brother-in-law syndrome, the guy

287
00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:34,700
that the doer of good? 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 

288
00:17:34,700 --> 00:17:39,000
yeah. 
But you know and we all know how

289
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:41,400
the brother-in-law Syndrome 
works out, right. 

290
00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:49,300
So they lose at the end well for
what happens is like you know, 

291
00:17:49,300 --> 00:17:52,800
because I record all this stuff 
and I have good memory. 

292
00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:55,200
So the next time he sees his 
brother-in-law has your 

293
00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:57,500
brother-in-law. 
Houses portfolio. 

294
00:17:57,600 --> 00:17:59,600
We didn't talk about it. 
Oh. 

295
00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:03,700
Okay. 
Interesting, you know, right? 

296
00:18:04,500 --> 00:18:08,000
Yeah. 
So Nice. 

297
00:18:08,500 --> 00:18:11,400
So next question can let's talk 
about some Timeless lessons. 

298
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:13,100
Please. 
I'm you'd like to share with you

299
00:18:13,100 --> 00:18:14,600
audience that you've learned 
along the way. 

300
00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:23,000
Timeless lessons. 
Well I mean I think Adam there 

301
00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:28,200
the easy ones, right? 
The easy ones are stay invested 

302
00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:33,900
through all different markkula 
Market turbulence has you know 

303
00:18:34,100 --> 00:18:38,000
like you may adjust, you may 
raise a little cash, you may 

304
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:44,700
make some small moves but never 
lose that overarching 

305
00:18:44,700 --> 00:18:48,800
philosophy. 
Have about fixating on your 

306
00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:51,100
goals. 
Owls, and being an investor. 

307
00:18:51,500 --> 00:18:54,600
All right, like, for example, 
Adam, I'll tell you, just a 

308
00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:56,600
quick story. 
I have a client. 

309
00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:59,100
She's going to be 104 in 
September. 

310
00:18:59,300 --> 00:19:02,600
Wow. 
And one of the things is, and if

311
00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:08,200
you saw her portfolio, Adam, 
she's a very wealthy lady 

312
00:19:08,700 --> 00:19:11,600
because she's invested. 
Of course, she had the benefit 

313
00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:15,800
of compounding on her side, her 
and her late husband, Blue Chip 

314
00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:18,200
stocks that pay dividends. 
Okay? 

315
00:19:18,500 --> 00:19:21,900
So, She never wavered from that 
through all the years. 

316
00:19:21,900 --> 00:19:25,100
She told me because her husband 
was a very educated man. 

317
00:19:25,500 --> 00:19:27,700
So, and that's what they did, 
right? 

318
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:32,900
So stay invested is it key thing
also? 

319
00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:40,600
Don't always rush. 
For the shiny penny, right? 

320
00:19:40,900 --> 00:19:47,600
What happens is that? 
Last year, of course, as we all 

321
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,400
know, was a tough year, right? 
Right? 

322
00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:55,900
So happens, is that now people 
they want to find something 

323
00:19:55,900 --> 00:19:59,200
different, right? 
They want to do. 

324
00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:02,000
They want to make money of 
course. 

325
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:04,400
So should we be buying real 
estate? 

326
00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:07,700
Should I be investing in private
loans? 

327
00:20:07,700 --> 00:20:10,800
I mean, I've had that couple 
question, you know, where I know

328
00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:15,700
a guy who lend money to people 
and, you know, will get 12% a 

329
00:20:15,700 --> 00:20:18,000
year or something like that. 
Yeah. 

330
00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:22,200
So Beware of all those shiny 
pennies. 

331
00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:28,000
As I like to say, you know, not 
every investment does great. 

332
00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:33,400
Always, especially whether it's 
your investing in real estate, 

333
00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:37,400
whether you're investing in 
equities, things like that 

334
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,800
nature. 
So, that's the key thing is the 

335
00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:43,700
sometimes. 
Just sit back and keep doing 

336
00:20:43,700 --> 00:20:47,400
what you're doing, right? 
And not rush for that shiny 

337
00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:54,200
penny and some people by Nature.
Always want that new thing that 

338
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:59,300
new thing, right? 
That's where you know, a good 

339
00:20:59,300 --> 00:21:04,500
advisor can help you is because 
it's kind of, like, Okay, well 

340
00:21:04,500 --> 00:21:07,900
maybe we can take a you know a 
couple thousand dollars in rush 

341
00:21:07,900 --> 00:21:11,500
for that shiny penny, but the 
predominance of your portfolio 

342
00:21:11,500 --> 00:21:16,100
isn't going into that and 
sometimes you have to as I like 

343
00:21:16,100 --> 00:21:19,000
to say, you have to be strong 
with people. 

344
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:23,600
You have to tell them things 
because really what you are and 

345
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,300
we are as a sushi re to them, 
right? 

346
00:21:26,300 --> 00:21:29,200
You real you're taking on 
responsibility to them. 

347
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:33,900
And I take that very seriously 
whether you have thousand 

348
00:21:33,900 --> 00:21:37,200
invested reward or ten million 
dollars with investment. 

349
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:39,200
We take that money very 
seriously. 

350
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:45,800
And you have to do that right to
just Keep them going down the 

351
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:49,600
path, right? 
And making sure that nothing 

352
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:52,100
happens to them that's on 
forcing. 

353
00:21:52,500 --> 00:21:53,700
Yeah, I know. 
I love that. 

354
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,200
I have a ton of mistakes. 
Can, what would be sometimes 

355
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:57,900
mistakes that you'd like to 
share with the audience? 

356
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:08,600
You know, it's interesting. 
The couple things right, is the 

357
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:11,200
overconfidence bias. 
Oh yeah. 

358
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:19,100
That that is a super big thing 
that people have to be very 

359
00:22:19,100 --> 00:22:25,500
careful about where their think 
they're smart and it's not that 

360
00:22:25,500 --> 00:22:31,200
they're smart book, wise or 
education wise, but they know 

361
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,500
more, right? 
That they've picked this great 

362
00:22:34,500 --> 00:22:39,300
stock. 
Talk and it's gone up. 10%. 

363
00:22:39,700 --> 00:22:43,300
Yeah. 
And then they think that they 

364
00:22:43,300 --> 00:22:45,400
never have to trim. 
Yep. 

365
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:53,700
Or they just become so enamored 
with how well they've done that.

366
00:22:53,700 --> 00:22:59,700
They don't do anything else or 
they don't listen to any other 

367
00:22:59,700 --> 00:23:02,000
advice, right? 
Right. 

368
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:06,900
And that that is I think a super
Big Challenge. 

369
00:23:07,900 --> 00:23:12,100
Because then what happens is, 
and I've seen this many a time 

370
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:17,400
where the investment starts to 
decline and they did. 

371
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,800
He's not a genius. 
Let's as I said, wait a minute, 

372
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:24,900
they're not a genius anymore. 
Well, you know, the genius 

373
00:23:24,900 --> 00:23:27,900
there, still a genius because 
it's still a great company and 

374
00:23:27,900 --> 00:23:30,700
they can see everything y. 
It is very Point. 

375
00:23:30,700 --> 00:23:37,700
Yep, continues to decline and 
then they start to Rationalize 

376
00:23:38,500 --> 00:23:42,800
to themselves, and to you and to
other people in their lives 

377
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:47,100
about why they're still right? 
Like they never step back. 

378
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:49,700
And go. 
Huh. 

379
00:23:49,700 --> 00:23:52,500
Maybe the thesis has changed? 
Yeah. 

380
00:23:52,900 --> 00:23:55,800
Maybe there's something that I 
should be weary of maybe there's

381
00:23:55,800 --> 00:24:02,400
something that I should examine 
or, or you know, the old adage 

382
00:24:02,500 --> 00:24:06,400
trees, don't grow to the sky. 
Maybe what I should just do is, 

383
00:24:07,100 --> 00:24:10,000
maybe I should take some profits
along the way, right? 

384
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,600
I like to use these old adages, 
right? 

385
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:19,200
You never go broke taking a 
profit, I mean, It's kind of 

386
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:23,900
true. 
But sometimes people they, they 

387
00:24:23,900 --> 00:24:28,400
just want to hang on or or which
is really interesting to me, you

388
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:32,600
know, and I talked earlier in 
the podcast about how to, you 

389
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:36,700
know, save taxes and stuff, but 
but will believe me if there's 

390
00:24:36,700 --> 00:24:40,300
if there's gains to be had. 
Yeah, the tax man is going to 

391
00:24:40,300 --> 00:24:42,800
get a little bit of a share. 
So you know what? 

392
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,100
We'll share it with them. 
Seriously. 

393
00:24:46,100 --> 00:24:49,400
It's a good problem to have the 
shame Yeah, it's a high-class 

394
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:51,500
problem. 
As we aliens, right? 

395
00:24:51,500 --> 00:24:57,500
So, when the, when the tax 
Court, as I say, drives the 

396
00:24:57,500 --> 00:25:01,000
horse, that's when I get cons, 
well, I can't sell it because 

397
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:02,800
then I'm going to have a capital
gain. 

398
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:07,500
I mean, intellectually, that 
doesn't make sense to me. 

399
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:08,700
Not at all. 
Yeah. 

400
00:25:08,700 --> 00:25:10,000
You're in the business of making
money. 

401
00:25:10,300 --> 00:25:15,500
So, okay, you know, I love that.
So, I love what you're saying 

402
00:25:15,500 --> 00:25:16,900
here. 
Can I have a whole chapter in my

403
00:25:16,900 --> 00:25:19,400
book, just literally on 
cognitive biases. 

404
00:25:19,700 --> 00:25:25,500
So, what's the best piece of 
advice you can share with the 

405
00:25:25,500 --> 00:25:27,200
audience or with your 30 year 
old self? 

406
00:25:29,500 --> 00:25:32,500
Well, if I had to go back to 
when I'm 30 years old, right, 

407
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:36,300
what I would say is, Never stop 
investing. 

408
00:25:38,500 --> 00:25:42,100
Pick. 
An investment path. 

409
00:25:42,100 --> 00:25:46,800
You want to go down and don't 
stop doing that because of the 

410
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:51,600
changing market conditions, or 
presidential administrations or 

411
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:56,500
job or family, always be an 
investor, whether it's real 

412
00:25:56,500 --> 00:26:01,900
estate, whether it's in, you 
know, stocks and bonds and just 

413
00:26:01,900 --> 00:26:06,000
continue and the old word 
because we're talking to my 30 

414
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:11,800
year old self is It's no shame 
in having a Balaji, right? 

415
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,900
Really, really true? 
Yeah, a budget. 

416
00:26:14,900 --> 00:26:20,400
You know, when I hear people say
Adam, oh, I don't have a budget,

417
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:25,200
I don't need a budget. 
That's a, that's a concerning 

418
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:29,100
thing to me, but I think it's 
really important for any person,

419
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:33,600
right? 
Whether you're 30 or 104 as my 

420
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:37,300
client, have a budget know what 
you can spend, right? 

421
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,700
But more importantly, when you 
know what you can spend, then 

422
00:26:40,700 --> 00:26:43,500
you know what, you can save, 
right? 

423
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:50,000
If you think globally, right? 
You'll still be able to do 

424
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:56,400
everything you want. 
But just know what you can do 

425
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,200
and what you can't do. 
And then, you know, again, Adam,

426
00:26:59,300 --> 00:27:03,400
see nowadays in this modern 
world here, we are in 2023 

427
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,700
people. 
You know, you sometimes 

428
00:27:06,700 --> 00:27:13,000
disregard advice from years ago.
Somebody once said, right for 30

429
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:17,300
days told me, right? 
Everything that you spend every 

430
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,400
day for 30 days. 
Wow. 

431
00:27:20,700 --> 00:27:30,400
Analyze what you spent? 
Yeah to say, you know I spent 

432
00:27:30,500 --> 00:27:33,600
two hundred and fifty dollars 
this month on coffee, for 

433
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:38,500
example, or the big thing. 
You know, when I was commuting 

434
00:27:38,500 --> 00:27:41,600
was shoe shines at the train 
station, right? 

435
00:27:42,100 --> 00:27:43,400
You know. 
Yeah. 

436
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:48,600
And it would just go oh my gosh,
I spent that much or the 

437
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:53,000
newspapers or you know, because 
I was commuting back in the day 

438
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,000
when we read. 
Papers, right? 

439
00:27:55,300 --> 00:27:59,500
It's like on the newspaper. 
So I and then you look back and 

440
00:27:59,500 --> 00:28:00,500
you go. 
Wow. 

441
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:03,900
I spent a ton of money. 
I didn't need to read three 

442
00:28:03,900 --> 00:28:08,100
newspapers a day when I 
basically just could get through

443
00:28:08,100 --> 00:28:09,500
one. 
Right? 

444
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,100
Right war or magazines, Adam, 
right? 

445
00:28:12,100 --> 00:28:16,000
I mean it was kind of like a 
hundred percent all blind spots.

446
00:28:16,100 --> 00:28:19,300
I love it. 
So can before we go before we 

447
00:28:19,300 --> 00:28:21,400
started recording, we're 
speaking a little about sales. 

448
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,500
It's one of your passions. 
It's one of your skills. 

449
00:28:23,900 --> 00:28:26,100
Can you share a little or speak?
A little about that to the 

450
00:28:26,100 --> 00:28:29,500
audience of what besides 
listening? 

451
00:28:29,500 --> 00:28:31,400
I know listings. 
Important. 

452
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,600
How would you go about if you 
were to share some skills skills

453
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:36,700
with sales skills? 
Excuse me with the audience? 

454
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:44,500
What would you say there? 
Um, Well, listening is the key. 

455
00:28:46,700 --> 00:28:52,600
but then also, after you've 
listened, well, Repeat back to 

456
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,400
the client. 
What you heard them say. 

457
00:28:56,700 --> 00:29:00,600
I love that and then translate 
it back to them. 

458
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:09,800
In actionable terms how you can 
help them and then ask Adam for 

459
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:13,400
their permission. 
To help them. 

460
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:19,000
Can I help you with that? 
I love that, you know, we work 

461
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,300
with a lot of corporate 
Executives, and frankly, 

462
00:29:21,300 --> 00:29:23,800
corporate Executives. 
Probably are one of the busiest 

463
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,000
classes of business individuals,
right? 

464
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,900
Because they're always working 
on planes coming going all the 

465
00:29:29,900 --> 00:29:31,600
time. 
Go, go, go, go, go. 

466
00:29:32,100 --> 00:29:36,700
Yeah, never have time to do 
their own financial planning or 

467
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,000
reviewing of their their, their 
finances. 

468
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,100
So I said is that something you 
know, you ask them is that 

469
00:29:43,100 --> 00:29:46,000
something that we could help you
with I love that. 

470
00:29:46,500 --> 00:29:52,200
Um, and also what you need to do
is you need to put it in, be 

471
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,900
really simple, atom. 
And this is what I learned from 

472
00:29:55,900 --> 00:30:01,400
a sales perspective, I have an 
Advisory Board of clients right 

473
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,700
in my practice, and one of the 
things that one of my clients 

474
00:30:04,700 --> 00:30:12,300
and esteemed attorney once 
mentioned, was that awk simply 

475
00:30:12,300 --> 00:30:14,200
to people. 
Yeah. 

476
00:30:14,900 --> 00:30:18,900
Because part of what we do and 
this is in sales, right? 

477
00:30:18,900 --> 00:30:23,000
Is to get them to trust you. 
So how do you get someone to 

478
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,000
trust you? 
You get them to trust you by 

479
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,400
being simple. 
You know, it's not calling a 

480
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,600
buddy or pounding them on the 
back. 

481
00:30:32,700 --> 00:30:41,700
It's basically saying simple, a 
stock like talking words and in 

482
00:30:41,700 --> 00:30:49,200
terms that they understand don't
talk over their heads because 

483
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:53,300
immediately, when you talk over 
your head, their heads, you 

484
00:30:53,300 --> 00:30:58,600
immediately will lose them. 
Because then what happens is Why

485
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:00,700
is he doing this? 
It's steep. 

486
00:31:00,700 --> 00:31:02,600
See, it's the same with all of 
us. 

487
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:06,100
Have you ever gone to anything? 
You bought anything in the guy? 

488
00:31:06,300 --> 00:31:08,800
The car salesman is one of them,
you know? 

489
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:15,000
Like I have no idea. 
Adam me, quarantine, so don't 

490
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:19,300
talk to me about the car engine.
Talking about the stereo or 

491
00:31:19,300 --> 00:31:22,500
Howard drives or what my friends
are going to say, when I drive, 

492
00:31:22,500 --> 00:31:26,400
and they see my car that's the 
space that I want to know about,

493
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:30,300
right? 
Right. so and also really be 

494
00:31:30,300 --> 00:31:35,100
prepared Adam to help them by 
see because if you're talking to

495
00:31:35,100 --> 00:31:40,300
someone, They don't come to you 
just because they want to idly 

496
00:31:40,300 --> 00:31:42,800
waste their time. 
There is a legitimate interest 

497
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:46,500
there, right? 
A well that's another thing, 

498
00:31:46,500 --> 00:31:48,700
right? 
Don't waste people's time, 

499
00:31:49,100 --> 00:31:53,800
right? 
Um and also job I always believe

500
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:57,200
is that, you know, keep asking 
them probing questions. 

501
00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,900
Don't get discouraged. 
If they don't make decisions 

502
00:31:59,900 --> 00:32:05,700
right away, you know, you got to
help them by like you got to ask

503
00:32:05,700 --> 00:32:09,600
them to say, you know, I can 
offer three different programs 

504
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,100
because we do financial planning
for fees, right? 

505
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:16,800
You can have the high-end 
planning program or the 

506
00:32:16,900 --> 00:32:21,200
mid-range planning program, or 
the lower range planning 

507
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,500
program. 
What would you like to engage 

508
00:32:23,500 --> 00:32:27,000
in? 
And then point them, it's like 

509
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,000
the old soda example, right? 
You go to the movie theater or 

510
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:33,600
when we went to movie theaters 
back in the day and they had to 

511
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,500
Super Duper soda and then they 
had the large soda and then they

512
00:32:36,500 --> 00:32:40,200
had the small signal and at the 
counter and you go home and I 

513
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,100
don't really want that big thing
but I don't really want that 

514
00:32:43,100 --> 00:32:46,000
small one. 
So then they direct you to the 

515
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:50,000
soda, they wanted you to buy 
100% at the price, that makes 

516
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,600
sense because the other ones is 
actually I get that 100% right. 

517
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:57,400
So you know again, Get into 
people's heads a little bit read

518
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:01,900
sales books. 
Actually, you know, I mean, so 

519
00:33:01,900 --> 00:33:05,100
many of us in our business or in
business, in general, want to 

520
00:33:05,108 --> 00:33:07,900
think sales is a dirty word. 
I don't think so. 

521
00:33:08,100 --> 00:33:12,800
I mean, I think basically is 
without great salespeople or 

522
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,900
sale, you know, where would we 
be in this country? 

523
00:33:15,900 --> 00:33:19,300
Right. 
I mean, if you got it, if you 

524
00:33:19,300 --> 00:33:22,700
think that every politician 
wants to sell us something, 

525
00:33:22,700 --> 00:33:25,400
right? 
Because they want to sell us 

526
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,100
that they can be the president 
of the United States or a 

527
00:33:28,100 --> 00:33:30,500
senator or Congressman or mayor,
right? 

528
00:33:30,900 --> 00:33:33,800
So they're selling to just 
basically. 

529
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,800
Yeah, I mean, is the blood life 
blood or oxygen of the economy 

530
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,500
without it doesn't function? 
So I am the same way as you. 

531
00:33:40,500 --> 00:33:44,400
I love it and and the key is 
then to don't be embarrassed by 

532
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:46,000
it. 
Like some people don't want to 

533
00:33:46,008 --> 00:33:48,500
be though, I don't want to be a 
Salesman, right? 

534
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,700
Why not old well, right, but how
are you going to go? 

535
00:33:52,700 --> 00:33:57,100
Commit your value to people. 
Is super important, right? 

536
00:33:57,100 --> 00:34:00,000
Love it's beautiful. 
What can thank you so much. 

537
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,500
What is the best way for people 
to get in touch with you? 

538
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:05,400
They can reach me a couple 
different ways. 

539
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,900
It's a, I know it's a long when 
they can send me an email and 

540
00:34:08,900 --> 00:34:11,199
Ken dot van leeuwen. 
And here we go. 

541
00:34:11,199 --> 00:34:13,699
VA en L. 
Ee. 

542
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:17,199
UW e. 
N at Van. 

543
00:34:17,199 --> 00:34:25,300
Leeuwen Covey a n l ee, U wwen, 
co.com or Same old the 

544
00:34:25,300 --> 00:34:29,699
old-fashioned way. 
Pick up the phone 609. 58000. 

545
00:34:30,699 --> 00:34:32,400
88. 
We're based in Princeton New 

546
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,600
Jersey. 
We have a nationwide practice. 

547
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:39,100
We used to travel to see 
individuals now. 

548
00:34:39,100 --> 00:34:42,500
Everything of course is a zoom 
called but you know we'll meet 

549
00:34:42,500 --> 00:34:49,000
you on your X and your terms if 
you know we can determine if we 

550
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:51,600
can help you so nothing but 
yeah. 

551
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:53,400
Well thank you Adam. 
It's been a pleasure. 

552
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:57,000
I hope you have a good On again 
soon you got to be well, have a 

553
00:34:57,007 --> 00:34:56,500
great day. 
On again soon you got to be 

554
00:34:56,500 --> 00:34:57,700
well, have a great day.