1 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:05,160 And welcome everyone to another Smart Money circle episode. 2 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:07,760 I'm Adam Sarahan. With me today is Cameron Shell 3 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:10,520 who's the Co founder and CEO of Dragonfly. 4 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:13,520 Ticker symbol is DPRO. Cameron, thank you so much for 5 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:15,920 taking the time and welcome to the Smart Money Circle. 6 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:19,640 Adam, I'm a big fan and really pleased and honored that you 7 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:21,160 have me on the show, so thank you very much. 8 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:24,360 Likewise, and for the audience, this is going to be a very 9 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:26,440 special interview. I'm very excited. 10 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:31,200 Cam has been a a pioneer in the drone industry and has done many 11 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:32,520 other things as a wealth of knowledge. 12 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:34,360 So let's dive right in. Cam, I always like to begin. 13 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:36,600 Can you please tell us your story and how you got to where 14 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:38,720 you are today? Well, sure. 15 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:43,840 Again, thanks again, Adam. So so I've been a tech 16 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:45,960 entrepreneur since my early teens. 17 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:50,600 You know, I was a.com kid, if you will, like that's kind of 18 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:54,360 like, you know, my early 20s, right, when the the early to mid 19 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:56,560 20s, right, whenthe.com was just going hard. 20 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:01,600 And I I had a a little company and our idea was that we were 21 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:06,480 going to take servers or PCs really at that time and put them 22 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:09,080 in a central location. And we're going to use this 23 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:12,640 thing that was kind of up and coming called the Internet to to 24 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:15,040 access software that was on our servers. 25 00:01:15,320 --> 00:01:18,560 And and so people could use different software from their 26 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:21,160 home or from wherever they were at and, and not have to 27 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:23,160 necessarily buy it. They can subscribe for it. 28 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:27,400 And we and it it it was a stupid idea and nobody there was no use 29 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:28,880 for it. I mean, you got to remember this 30 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:30,960 is when like, oh, the internet's, you know, Oh, it's 31 00:01:30,960 --> 00:01:34,200 kind of like the Yellow Pages, but it's online, you know, kind 32 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:38,000 of thing. So we, we found a, a market in, 33 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:44,800 in the fact that audit firms would use our, our, our, our 34 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:47,720 data farm. We called it at the time and, 35 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:52,120 and they would, so we'd load up Great Plains, which was a little 36 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:53,920 fun fact. Great Plains was the first SAS 37 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:57,200 company out there. It wasn't, it wasn't Salesforce 38 00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:58,240 and it wasn't a bunch of the others. 39 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:01,480 It was Great Plains. So they they, so they, they did 40 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:04,080 a, a deal with this kind of, I think more out of sympathy than 41 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:06,400 anything else on this stupid idea. 42 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:09,840 We loaded their software on our servers and then a couple of 43 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:13,200 small regional audit firms would take out their transportable 44 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:15,840 computers, which will like sewing machines at the time, and 45 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:18,280 they'd go to the rather than having to take them out to the 46 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:20,760 office that you'd use computers that were at their clients 47 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:24,400 offices, access the great plain software in this small kind of 48 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:26,360 mid market area that they were in at the time. 49 00:02:26,640 --> 00:02:29,680 And they would and they would do their their accounting work on 50 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:33,480 it and and it caught on and, and so the next thing he asked for 51 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:35,880 is if we need some productivity software, we need to use our 52 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:40,280 Lotus 123 again, dating myself there and and some of us are 53 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:43,200 actually using, you know, this Microsoft product suite as well 54 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:45,600 and Excel is pretty, you know, it was kind of up and coming at 55 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:47,840 the time. So we approached Microsoft and 56 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:49,680 said, well, could you know, explain what we're doing? 57 00:02:49,920 --> 00:02:51,960 It took us about a year, but they finally said, OK, we'll, 58 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:54,320 we'll do a, a subscription licensing deal with you. 59 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:59,520 So Microsoft was actually the second software as a service 60 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:00,800 company out there, believe it or not. 61 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:02,960 And that was the first time they've ever had a subscription 62 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:05,640 licensing model. So we did that in a great, you 63 00:03:05,640 --> 00:03:08,520 know, we had, we had two, then we had four and then we had six 64 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:11,480 and then we had, you know, kind of eight, you know, regional 65 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:14,440 ish, you know, kind of semi national accounting firms on 66 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:16,080 board and, and working and growing. 67 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:22,600 And then and then Microsoft bought Hotmail and I just 68 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:24,640 happened to be in the right spot at the right time. 69 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:27,600 And they were like, what are we going to do with this thing now? 70 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:32,520 Like what are server farms, data utility, da da da and I happen 71 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:34,720 to be in the right room at the right city at the right time. 72 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:37,040 And somebody started asking me those questions and so I 73 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:39,400 explained what we were doing. And then so somebody said, hey, 74 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:41,880 well, can you help us do that? And of course, I'm a sales guy, 75 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,240 like it or not. And, and, and so I said yes, I 76 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:48,760 really didn't have any clue what I was saying yes to, but I, 77 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:51,160 yeah, we can do that. And, and so we became an 78 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,960 integral part of, of, of that whole world of, of Hotmail 79 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:58,400 getting out there. So, you know, we built the 80 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:01,240 company up. We, we were doing $80 million in 81 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:05,280 revenue and, and didn't, we didn't know that that was a big 82 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:07,640 deal or wasn't a big deal. And we got to, we got approached 83 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:11,720 by a, a big New York bank and they said, you know, there's 84 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:14,400 this thing calledthe.com going on and you're a startup and 85 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:16,360 you're doing 80 million in revenue and everybody else is 86 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:18,560 trying to figure out if they, how to replace the Yellow Pages. 87 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:22,680 So we went public and, you know, I was 25, I think, and, you 88 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:25,720 know, company went to a 3 1/2 billion dollar market cap, which 89 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,640 in 2000 is probably like 8 billion today. 90 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:32,160 But, and, and again, I still didn't realize the impact of it 91 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:33,800 And, and I didn't know what I was doing. 92 00:04:33,840 --> 00:04:35,720 I, I didn't, of course I thought I did. 93 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:39,880 And so, you know, I did that for about another year and, and we 94 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:42,200 had all the right investors and all that type of stuff. 95 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:46,800 And, but I, so I got fired about a year later, which was the 96 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:49,880 right that I should have been fired kind of thing. 97 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:55,400 And, and so I left there and then I went and became one of 98 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:57,640 the early, I think the first, but one of the early outside 99 00:04:57,640 --> 00:04:59,280 investors in a company called Netteller. 100 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:04,280 And, and, and I got involved with the product team there and 101 00:05:04,280 --> 00:05:06,920 Nettellar went on to become the largest mover of money in the 102 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:10,800 online gambling space. And so we took it public over 103 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:13,960 in, in London. And that was a big success. 104 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:16,600 And Long story short, I thought I knew everything about 105 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:19,240 everything and, and I didn't know anything about anything 106 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:21,200 but, but I had gained a lot of great experience. 107 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:24,520 I was, I was in New York on 9/11 at the base of the towers. 108 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:29,680 And you know, my like, you know, it's kind of already, you know, 109 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:31,840 somewhat out of control in my life, but that kind of pushed me 110 00:05:31,840 --> 00:05:34,160 over the edge. And over the, the course of 111 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:36,680 about a five year span, I just completely blew everything up in 112 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:42,120 my life and was, was homeless and bankrupt and in every way 113 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:45,760 imaginable. And, and that, that was a long 114 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:47,360 time ago. It was, you know, 20 plus years 115 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:50,560 ago, obviously now, but and so I've got it, but I got things 116 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:53,480 cleaned up in the last 20 years. I've been, you know, building 117 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:58,640 companies, 20 plus been building companies and, and the, you 118 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:01,200 know, in particular Dragonfly in the drone space. 119 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:04,320 So that that's the probably a longer version of the back story 120 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:05,480 than you were probably looking for. 121 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:10,120 But I, I, you know, I, I believe that what we're doing at 122 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:12,600 Dragonfly in the 20 year plus years of work that we put in 123 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:16,240 here is, is now going to, you know, hopefully, you know, turn 124 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:18,960 into, you know, another one of those fantastic stories that 125 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:21,000 that does, does a lot of good for society. 126 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:24,360 Wow, I absolutely love your story and the fact that you you 127 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:27,120 had all that success early on, then you self sabotage, but you 128 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:29,080 came back from it and you built it back up again. 129 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:31,040 So definitely hats off to you there. 130 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:32,920 Kim, let's talk about your business. 131 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,120 Please tell us what Dragonfly does some of your competitive 132 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:36,600 advantages. Anything else you want to share 133 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:37,680 about the? Company sounds great. 134 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:41,200 So Dragonfly is it's at least to my knowledge it's it's the 135 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:44,920 oldest standing dual use drone manufacturer in the world. 136 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:50,760 And so, you know, we've been around for 27 years now. 137 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:54,440 There's not much that we haven't done in the drone space. 138 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:58,640 We've seen, you know, probably half a dozen drone cycles where 139 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:00,880 it was all going to take off and be great and amazing. 140 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:05,400 And, you know, our, our, we got our start in the public safety 141 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:07,800 space. So we were building drones 142 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:12,480 really as hobbies, as hobbyists. And, and we're approached by a, 143 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:15,160 a federal police force that wanted to use it actually for 144 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:18,960 accident reconstruction. And, and that's, and, you know, 145 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:22,520 one day they got a call from a search and rescue team that 146 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:25,200 said, Hey, we, we can't put our helicopters up. 147 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:27,080 We've got somebody that's wandered away from a car 148 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:29,680 accident in, you know -40° weather. 149 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:31,720 They've been missing for many hours. 150 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:35,000 Any chance you could take that drone that you got for accident 151 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:36,960 reconstruction? Because it had thermal cameras 152 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:39,400 on it and, and go look for this person. 153 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:42,760 And they did. And, and they found the person 154 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:44,320 and, and they, and it saved their life. 155 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:48,800 And so that dragonfly was called the Dragonflyer 4 at the time. 156 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:51,800 So the Dragonflyer 4 is the first drone that was ever 157 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:53,920 credited with saving a human life. 158 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:56,960 And that dragonfire, that drone now sits on permanent display in 159 00:07:56,960 --> 00:08:00,520 the Smithsonian. And so, so, and that really 160 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:04,280 became the beginning of our public safety work and the work 161 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:06,960 that we've done with law enforcement and, and military 162 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:08,720 and humanitarian around the world. 163 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:12,120 And so that's really a kind of the deeper part of our our 164 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:16,360 ethos. And then, you know, we, we 165 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:20,840 definitely grew that business and, and have just, you know, 166 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:24,360 managed it a month at a time and a quarter of a time through the 167 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:28,920 last 27 years, where in that time frame, we have seen every 168 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:32,960 single drone manufacturer that was started in North America, 169 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:35,679 you know, except for say the last five to seven years. 170 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:38,080 We're we're in it, we're in another drone cycle right now, 171 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:41,400 which is different this time. But every single drone 172 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:44,120 manufacturer has gone out of business, whether it was 173 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:48,560 Airware, Air Lily, GoPro, Air Wise, 3Dr, and they all had 174 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:51,120 hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars behind them. 175 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:55,360 And so I think what's strategically at the root of 176 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:57,920 what strategically differentiates us is that we're 177 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:00,600 very boots on the ground. We were very bootstrapped, we're 178 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:04,200 very customer focused. We've only had two people that 179 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:08,040 have left the company. 1 I think it was well, one was retirement 180 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:11,120 and and 1 was maternity leave. So those same engineers that we 181 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:14,560 had, you know, 25 plus years ago are the same engineers that and 182 00:09:14,560 --> 00:09:16,800 we've got many more, but that we work with today. 183 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:21,480 So for a company that's still relatively small, our ability to 184 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:27,360 to service and execute on concepts of operation and 185 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:30,320 capacity wise meet the large orders that are now coming 186 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:33,480 through this drone cycle are I think are are maybe second to 187 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:35,960 none, but can certainly match anybody that's raised hundreds 188 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:37,640 of millions of dollars out there. 189 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:40,960 Wow what a great story. So you were early in the drone 190 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:43,920 space as a Co founder. I want to go back there for a 191 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:46,680 second because I get what you do and I love what you do and the 192 00:09:46,680 --> 00:09:48,160 fact that you're around for decades. 193 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:50,360 It's almost like Elton Johnson. I'm still standing. 194 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:51,200 Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know. 195 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:53,520 That's exactly. Oh man. 196 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:56,920 That's what comes to mind as you're speaking. 197 00:09:56,920 --> 00:09:59,760 So I love that. Congratulations by the way, it's 198 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:02,920 absolutely fantastic feat. So let's talk about the when you 199 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:05,800 Co founded the company, what was the vision? 200 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:07,160 What was the problem solution like? 201 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:08,600 Speak to that a little bit please. 202 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:11,280 Yeah, so ahead of your times. Yeah. 203 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:15,160 So, well, well the, the company was actually in existence and, 204 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:17,960 and the, and the founder, founder, his first name was 205 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:21,640 Dragon DRAGAN. And that's why our, our name 206 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:25,520 Dragonfly is spelt with an A instead of an O And he had, he 207 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:28,400 had had the business really as a hobbyist for about 5 years. 208 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:35,080 Separately, I was designing some software to use for body cameras 209 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:39,200 in the in the police space and you know, they would turn on and 210 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:43,200 off automatically transmit stream and, and some things like 211 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:46,160 that. And I got introduced to to 212 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:48,560 Dragonfly because they were doing this public safety work. 213 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:51,480 And as I got to know Dragon and the and the whole company, it 214 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:54,400 became really apparent to me that this is this was going to 215 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:56,360 be the future. Now, of course, at that time I 216 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:58,560 thought that oh, and it just within a few years, this is 217 00:10:58,560 --> 00:11:01,520 going to be amazing. And here we are 20 some years 218 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:03,800 later. I like, Oh my, if I had any 219 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:07,480 idea, you know, but so I, I was right. 220 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:11,760 I was just 20 years late in my thinking, But so, so I put a 221 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:15,680 little investment group together and, and, and combined our two 222 00:11:15,680 --> 00:11:18,760 companies together. And so that's why I have the the 223 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:21,120 privilege and I say it with ultimate, you know, due due 224 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:24,560 respect, that I get to call myself a a a Co founder of, of 225 00:11:24,560 --> 00:11:27,120 the business. And so that's how I got involved 226 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:29,640 in the business then. And the, the vision at that time 227 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:33,360 was, was really to drive the drone industry to where what we 228 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:35,360 see happening in the drone industry today. 229 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:40,240 So all the different like, like drones will be as pervasive as 230 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:42,680 iPhones, drones will be as pervasive as the Internet. 231 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:47,440 And the impact of drones will actually be as, as as big as AI. 232 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:51,080 And the reason and, and all of those things do call many into 233 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:53,640 the drone industry. And the reason I say that is 234 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:56,720 that nothing collects data better than a drone. 235 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:59,560 Nothing because what you've got is you've got something that's 236 00:11:59,560 --> 00:12:03,360 got an aerial perspective in a 3D space with a massive battery 237 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:06,040 pack on it that you could put multiple sensors. 238 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:09,080 So every time you're flying a drone, you could be doing ground 239 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:11,920 penetrating radar, you can be doing LIDAR, you can do air 240 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:14,800 quality, you can do like absolutely anything. 241 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:17,920 And you combine all those data sets in with now what's 242 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:20,360 happening with the AI and you can actually compute on board 243 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:24,000 now with we have NVIDIA chip integration and you get real 244 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:28,040 time AI interpretation of literally hundreds of data sets 245 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:31,280 all at once. The insights are absolutely 246 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:35,680 incredible and the implications both commercially and military 247 00:12:35,680 --> 00:12:41,360 wise are, are beyond like just mind blowing when you, when you 248 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:45,440 start to see these results. So, so, but, but that was 249 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:47,160 actually, oh, that's what's going to happen. 250 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:50,880 But again, 20 plus years ago, that's not what was happening, 251 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:54,640 but that's where we started knowing that, that we are a 252 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:57,880 drone company, but ultimately we're a data company. 253 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:01,280 And, and that's where that, and, and so our vision eventually is 254 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:03,600 to give away our drones. Like the only way that we're 255 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:06,880 going to compete with with Chinese inexpensive, very high 256 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:11,280 quality manufacturing in North America isn't by tariffs, it 257 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:14,200 isn't by protectionism, it isn't by those are all great things 258 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:15,560 right now. I'm not taking away from them. 259 00:13:15,560 --> 00:13:17,840 We have a market right now that's exploding because of 260 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:19,600 that. So I'm, I'm, I'm grateful for 261 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:22,680 that. But ultimately what's we, we 262 00:13:22,680 --> 00:13:25,960 have to compete on a, on a, on a better playing field than that. 263 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:28,560 And we are better than that. And so we're, we're going to 264 00:13:28,560 --> 00:13:30,320 have to give away these drones at some point. 265 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:32,440 But how we do that is by having better data. 266 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:34,960 A drone does two things that either deliver something that 267 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:39,120 might be a package, it might be an ordinance or it or it 268 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,240 collects data or it does both at the same time. 269 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:44,360 And the people that can do that best and collect that data to 270 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:47,040 provide better benefit back to their customers, whether they're 271 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:49,280 government, military, commercial, law enforcement, 272 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:52,160 whatever, that's the company that's ultimately going to be a, 273 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:55,160 you know, a trillion dollar company candidly in my mind. 274 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:57,120 You know, it makes perfect sense. 275 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:59,760 So thank you for that overview and the explanation and letting 276 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:01,320 us know your story and the company's story. 277 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:03,000 So now I'm going to shift the conversation a little bit to 278 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:07,000 timeless advice. So the first question would be 279 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:09,160 risk management. How do you handle risk and what 280 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:11,400 are some mistakes you see people make with respect to risk 281 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:15,440 management? Yeah, I, I have found that the, 282 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:18,880 the, the best way to manage risk, at least in our 283 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:23,040 circumstance and certainly over the number of years is, is to 284 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:25,560 worry a little bit less about the future. 285 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:28,160 You got to be cognizant of it. You got to have strategy and you 286 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:32,280 have to be totally aware. But you know, we don't react to 287 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:34,880 the future, we react to what's happening right now. 288 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:37,680 So we are very one step at a time. 289 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:41,720 What's in front of us right now. If we can execute the next step, 290 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:46,800 we're likely, you know, 50% ahead of everybody else either 291 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,040 in the market or the problem that we're trying to deal with 292 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:51,440 at that moment. And then if we just execute the 293 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:54,840 next step, you know, we're another 50% ahead again. 294 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:59,280 And what it does is it keeps us surviving, but it also gets us 295 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:02,600 better Intel and better information, which then creates 296 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:06,160 a more clear picture for what we're worrying about out here. 297 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:11,840 I find a lot of risk analysis and a lot of strategy turns out 298 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:15,160 to be a lot of worry. And if you're planning for what 299 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:18,440 you're worrying about, you're going to end up in that exact 300 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:20,680 situation. Now, I'm not talking about being 301 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:24,800 ignorant or putting head in the sand or anything like that, but 302 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:27,640 I am talking about where the proportionate amount of focus 303 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:31,240 absolutely needs to be. And you know, if you're in a 304 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:35,160 firefight or if you're in a serious situation, emergency 305 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:36,400 rescue. And this is this is, you know, 306 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:37,680 our customers have taught me this. 307 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,320 If you're in those situations, you have to deal with that 308 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:44,040 situation. Not like how do we prevent this 309 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:45,880 in the future from ever Yeah, you'll get there. 310 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:48,400 But right now you got to deal with that situation and save 311 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:51,080 that life or your life or accomplish the mission. 312 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:56,400 And so we treat our risk management in kind of in that 313 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:57,880 same light. We just make sure that we 314 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:00,920 execute on the exact next thing. I love that. 315 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:03,840 That's really, really, really powerful because worrying they, 316 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:05,920 they say, is like praying for what you don't want. 317 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:08,800 So if you spend your whole time worrying about that stuff and 318 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:11,200 then, like you said, not planning and not executing, 319 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:13,760 you're going to just sit there and focus on that and then just 320 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:14,440 go there. And that. 321 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:16,120 That makes perfect sense. Yeah. 322 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:18,320 OK, so let's talk about timeless lessons. 323 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:20,200 What are some timeless lessons you've learned along the way 324 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:21,400 that you like to share with the audience? 325 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:23,360 You can go business life anywhere you want to go. 326 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:28,560 Yeah, sounds great. Well, I, I, I think probably the 327 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:31,640 biggest business lesson that I've had, which is actually a 328 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:36,280 life lesson as well, is to realize that it's not all about 329 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:39,920 me and that everything that we do needs to be in service to 330 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:42,360 whoever we're servicing. So whether that's our customer, 331 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:45,320 whether that's our shareholder, what, what, whether it's the, 332 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:51,000 the corporation, what, whatever it is, if, if our motivation and 333 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:53,800 this is very hard discipline, it's A to, to adopt. 334 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:58,920 And it takes a lot of practice. And is, is if, if our decision 335 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:03,720 and discipline is around what's best for us and it's not what's 336 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:06,720 best for the people that were in service to, it's going to be the 337 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:09,119 wrong decision. Whether no, it, it's very 338 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:10,920 tempting. There's no, it's best for us 339 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:12,560 right now. We have to make this decision. 340 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:14,000 It's whatever. And, and that's where the 341 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:16,760 discipline part comes in where you've got to play it for the 342 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:20,119 long term. So there are many times, you 343 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:22,480 know, all those companies earlier that I mentioned that 344 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:24,400 had gone out of business that had hundreds of millions of 345 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:26,160 dollars. Every one of those companies I 346 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:29,040 mentioned tried to buy Dragonfly at one time and, and, and a 347 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:33,120 couple of them a couple times and, and there were a number of 348 00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:36,560 times in there where I was adamant and excited that we were 349 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:39,640 gonna sell to them. I mean, Airware, I mean, John 350 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:42,240 Chambers, the, you know, the chairman of Cisco was the 351 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:44,320 chairman of Airware. I mean, I would have loved to 352 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:47,600 what an honor to get to have been able to work with him or 353 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:51,240 for him. But, you know, some wiser people 354 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:53,280 reminded me of that, that we are not here. 355 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:56,560 Like they ultimately, in our opinion, had a strategy that 356 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:58,800 probably wasn't going to work. We never know for sure. 357 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:01,120 And and you know, we happened to be right. 358 00:18:01,120 --> 00:18:06,160 It didn't work for them, but but, and, and that wouldn't have 359 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:08,040 been good for the customers that we dealt with. 360 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:11,000 We have, we have mission critical customers that depend 361 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:14,520 on our product, that depend on us being there every single day. 362 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:19,720 And, and that became more important to us than, you know, 363 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:22,280 selling out to the big person next door. 364 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:25,560 And again, if that would have been the right decision and, 365 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:27,920 and, and I can't, I would have made the wrong decision at that 366 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:29,160 time. But you know, there's some great 367 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:31,880 people around us that that reminded us of our mission. 368 00:18:32,120 --> 00:18:34,720 And in fact, and it wasn't board members, it was employees. 369 00:18:35,360 --> 00:18:37,840 It was it was people on the ground that cared about the 370 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:40,760 customers that we were dealing with that ultimately they were 371 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:44,560 like, yeah, we're not going to probably hang around anyway if 372 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:46,640 you sell to these folks or whatever, because that's just 373 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:50,000 not our ethos. And so, you know, making sure 374 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:53,600 that we stay in service, which is not a popular or easy thing 375 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:57,320 to do and it's hard to quantify and it and you have to question, 376 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:01,400 you know, constantly question yourself, like every day, you 377 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:03,720 know, is this action that I'm taking right now being of 378 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:06,280 service? Yeah, that's a really, really 379 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:08,280 just brilliant way of structuring your whole life, 380 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:10,200 like you said, not just business but also personal. 381 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:13,400 Let's talk about the other side of that coin, which is timeless 382 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:15,360 mistakes. What are some time mistakes 383 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:17,600 either you've made, you've seen other people make, and then how 384 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:19,680 do you learn from them so you don't repeat them? 385 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,560 Yeah, I, well, again, I think everybody probably has some, 386 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:27,760 some timeless mistakes or lessons, you know, and you know, 387 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:30,560 through, through the journey that I've been privileged to, to 388 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:33,480 go through, I, I've, I've made a lot. 389 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:38,480 So but, but you, you know, out of all of that, I think that 390 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,160 the, the timeless lesson I've got is that everything is 391 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:43,320 connected. Every one of us is connected and 392 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:46,000 everything that, that I do and everything that we do as a 393 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:50,000 company has an impact that ripples across our customer 394 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:53,320 base, our, the families of our employees, absolutely 395 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:55,760 everything. So while we have to make 396 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:59,320 decisions that are based on the immediate, you know, imperative 397 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:03,200 that has to get accomplished, we have to be so mindful that every 398 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:05,080 one of those decisions has a ripple effect. 399 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:07,720 And, and, and whether it might feel like it's the right 400 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,800 decision at the time and get a short term gain, it will bite us 401 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,440 in this in the ass if it's not the right decision. 402 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,000 So. That we've always been the 403 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:19,680 small, not, you know, we're often more times than not the 404 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:22,800 small guys in the street that don't have as much capability, 405 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:25,160 that don't have as much capital, that don't have as much. 406 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,160 And we're seeing it again. You know, there's lots of big 407 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:30,560 voices out there. There's lots of big capital out 408 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:31,920 there. There's lots of, oh, you should 409 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:33,200 be doing this, you should be doing that. 410 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:36,920 You don't, you know, and we, you know, we're, we're gonna, we're 411 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:40,240 gonna stay our course. We're gonna listen to that 412 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:43,480 people out there that that have that same ethos and and I do 413 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:45,920 believe that at the end of the day that that will result for 414 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:49,560 our shareholders in US, you know, certainly being in a multi 415 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,600 billion dollar organization. Yeah, no, I absolutely love 416 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:54,320 that. OK, let's talk about leadership. 417 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:56,800 So what makes a great leader, and what are some lessons you've 418 00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:58,720 learned along the way about leadership that you'd like to 419 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,880 share with the audience? Get out of the way, get out of 420 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:03,920 the way. Every everybody has leadership 421 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:07,360 capability. And so I think for a long time, 422 00:21:07,360 --> 00:21:10,440 most of my life, I have personally thought, you know, I 423 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:12,680 need to be the leader. I need to be front and center. 424 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,600 I need to, you know, if I'm not doing it all, then, you know, 425 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:19,720 I'm, I'm not worth being here. Like I'm going to get replaced 426 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:23,080 or I'm going to get whatever. And, and when I finally got old 427 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:26,800 enough to, to, to garner from the lessons that, that, you 428 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:29,800 know, I had the privilege to get pounded into my head over and 429 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:33,800 over over the decades, is that the more I let go with, with 430 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:37,120 great people around us, the more I let go and I let them lead, 431 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:41,640 the better the solutions are. The like, it just works like 432 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:43,560 that. And at the end of the day, you 433 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:48,520 know, my decision is, is do I want this to work or, or do I 434 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,320 want to try to look good? Like, I hate to say it, that's, 435 00:21:51,360 --> 00:21:56,440 that's just my pure vanity coming out And, and but that's 436 00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:59,320 and, and I want it to work. I just want it to work. 437 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,840 So if, you know, I keep that in mind as a leader, like what's 438 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:05,680 going to make this work? That the, the, the next right 439 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:07,560 decision seems to just present itself. 440 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:09,360 And I can't argue with that decision. 441 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,000 The second I start justifying something, I know I'm 442 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,320 bullshitting myself. So just get out of the way. 443 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:17,400 Is is, you know, do my part but get out of the way. 444 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:19,320 Yeah, I think it's absolutely brilliant. 445 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:21,480 So let's talk about these life lessons In order to becoming 446 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,160 successful people, successful people have to learn how to 447 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:27,080 overcome adversity and handle adversity. 448 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:29,640 I noticed something you just mentioned right there, which I 449 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,240 just had a conversation with my father about earlier, going 450 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:34,680 through difficult things. I said I'm grateful for those 451 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,480 lessons of those that adversity because that made me who I am 452 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:38,600 today. I learned from them so on and so 453 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:39,640 forth. And you just mentioned that as 454 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,280 well as literally today I had that conversation this morning. 455 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,040 So how do you handle adversity and what are some obstacles you 456 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:46,800 had to overcome along the way that you like to share with the 457 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,280 audience? Yeah, I, I, I'm, I'm going to 458 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:51,680 say this and I want to make sure it doesn't come off trite 459 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:55,120 because it isn't. And it's, it's taken, you know, 460 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,560 57 years for me to, to get to the spot where I actually truly 461 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:03,280 feel and, and believe this. But, you know, I'm, I'm a bit of 462 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:06,000 a fitness guy. I like, I love the fitness and 463 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,720 everything else. And so the, the analogy is, you 464 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:14,360 know, I, I absolutely cannot get stronger, be more capable, live 465 00:23:14,360 --> 00:23:17,480 longer, be a better dad, you know, because I have young kids 466 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:23,600 and as an old guy, unless I, I have good physical fitness and 467 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:25,800 good physical fitness is hard and it's painful. 468 00:23:26,360 --> 00:23:29,400 And if I don't go through that pain, I'm not going to be good 469 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:33,280 at what I do. So very, and I really like there 470 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:37,240 is not a probably not. Well, this is, I'm sure this 471 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,520 isn't true, but I would like to think that there's probably not 472 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:43,200 a moment of frustration that I now feel that I don't recognize 473 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,280 it. As you know, this is part of my 474 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:49,000 opportunity that this is part of This is why I'm going to be 475 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,800 better tomorrow. It's because I'm not treating 476 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,320 this piece of frustration that I'm dealing with or whatever it 477 00:23:55,320 --> 00:24:00,400 is as like this is my workout and this and and I got to be 478 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,480 grateful for this in the moment, not after the fact when it 479 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:05,960 worked out or it wasn't going to be as bad as I thought it was 480 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,200 going to be. And you know, like, you know, 481 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:10,560 worry is so much worse than reality. 482 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:13,880 But like in that moment where I'm getting yelled at because 483 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:16,120 somebody thinks I'm an idiot because I did something wrong or 484 00:24:16,120 --> 00:24:19,480 I, you know, whatever they like. OK, No, like this, this is me 485 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:23,680 doing another push up or this is me, you know, being, being able 486 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:25,760 to be a better husband or be able to be a better father 487 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,440 because I or Better Business person in this situation, 488 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,520 because I've, I've got to treat this opinion that I'm getting or 489 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,640 whatever with respect and deal with it like own my own side of 490 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,480 the street and just like be grateful for that, for that 491 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,720 adversity. I mean, that's the only, there 492 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,320 have been only a few but a few moments in my life where I, 493 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:44,600 where I'm like, I don't have any problems at this moment. 494 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,480 I, I got to tell you if, if those would have lasted more 495 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:49,960 than 10 minutes, I'm sure I'd be depressed. 496 00:24:50,360 --> 00:24:54,880 So I, yeah, be grateful for that for for the shit that we got 497 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,840 through. Seriously, OK, I love that, and 498 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,560 being conscious enough and aware enough to do it in real time I 499 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:02,760 think is a superpower. So hats off to you again, That's 500 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,440 fantastic. All right, Cam, final question 501 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:06,960 for you. What is the best piece of advice 502 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,800 you'd like to give the audience or your 30 year old self? 503 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:15,480 Well, I don't think I'm qualified to give anybody 504 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:20,520 advice, but I but if I were to look back at me when I was 30, 505 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:25,920 now maybe shut the fuck up and listen. 506 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:27,800 Like who, who do you think you are? 507 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,680 Like you're, you're, you're like, everybody is scared. 508 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:34,400 Everybody is like trying to make it work. 509 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,760 Like the world doesn't revolve around anything. 510 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:42,200 It revolves around everything. So, you know, like, enjoy that, 511 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:47,640 like accept that as the fact and, and you know, and, and the 512 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:51,080 reality is there, there are people in the world that a big 513 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:52,840 part of the world do revolve around. 514 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:54,720 I mean, they're massive personalities. 515 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,680 And, and I always thought that that's what I want it to be. 516 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,640 And I have so much more peace not being that person, right, 517 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:06,000 like being a part of rather than being it. 518 00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:11,920 So I I would probably say that that to him, you know, learn to 519 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:15,440 enjoy being a part of it's it's the greatest privilege is 520 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:19,360 belonging it. Really is I can't absolutely 521 00:26:19,360 --> 00:26:20,840 fantastic. Ten stars out of five. 522 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,200 Thank you so much for taking the time and speaking with me today 523 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:24,840 and hopefully we'll have you on again soon. 524 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,000 Congrats on all your success. Yeah, my pleasure. 525 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:27,400 Thank you.