I'm Michael Che. And I'm Colin Jose, and we've
got a little secret. Actually, it's a pretty big
secret. Well, now you got to give the
people something. I'm not saying a word.
Oh, then people will know to tune in.
Come on, tell them a little. Like our hosting of comedy
events streaming only on Peacock.
Exactly. It's called New York After Dark
and it's a comedy show that only features drop in comic.
Boom, you nail. Into Michael Che's phone.
Nervous. Whoa, whoa, whoa, hey, hey, hey.
New York After Dark. It's some kind of comedy thing,
and it's streaming now only on Peacock.
You love it. Zippers, welcome to this episode
of the Tea with Me podcast. With me, she and Todd.
It's a good time. It's a guest episode of the
podcast. We're feeling good.
We're feeling fine. Spoiler like this is actually
coffee. The whole thing is a lie.
The whole thing's alive. Bring it down before we get into
it. I just got to ask Dan, while
you're twiddling your knob there, let me just ask.
Let me just ask serious question before we get into it because
it's hanging over me on this podcast record.
Let me just ask you this and you just answer yes or no and just
be honest, right? Don't try and like mug me off or
be funny. Just be honest, right?
Kind of picked up a vibe and I want to see.
If I got it right, yes or no? Do you think I text you too much
over Christmas and New Year's? Yeah, yeah, that's the my, my
God. I realised I texted him the like
Patreon number target of like this we're going to hit by
February 3 times and it was the same every time.
It's not stoked. It's like, OK, what's an
appropriate amount of like tax per week?
Is there an, is there an amount, or is it?
But because here's where I think it went wrong, I was saying
instead of sending you like one, what's up with like loads of
paragraphs in it, I was sending you a separate one for every
sentence. You know what I mean?
I think the fact that it was the week between Christmas and New
Year, you could have just relaxed a little bit.
Yeah, but then I but you were working, you know what I mean?
So it's not like you were like, oh, I'm going to take some time
off with, you know, surfboard And you know, I thought because
you're that's I'm sorry, came on to stuff.
I just thought you liked me. So yeah, separate.
It's a guest episode this week. Before we get into it, let me
just plug Patreon, which is patreon.com/tea With Me podcast.
We do the breakfast episode on there, which is called Breakfast
Brew every day, Monday to Friday, comes out at about half
9:00 in the morning. And it's it's a fun time.
We just do it in my kitchen. Every episode's different.
You get the bonus episode on a Monday as well.
But this is the the big fat public episode and it's a guest
episode. My guest.
Well, let me try and say guest episode more times.
My guest is Joe List. Joe is a stand up comedian based
in New York. I saw him in the stand comedy
club last time I was in New York and I've been a fan for a while.
He does a great podcast with Mark Normand, who's also coming
on the podcast pretty soon called Tuesday with Stories,
which is a really interesting podcast and for stand ups.
Because they just talk about like.
The kind of inner workings of what's going on for them stand
up wise and the shows are doing and that kind of thing.
But also if you're if you're not a stand up.
Just very interesting and entertaining as well.
Joe also does his own podcast called Mindful Metal Jacket as
well. It's just a funny guy.
He's given us his time for doing this.
The one thing stands out to me about Jew List is whenever we
were doing the same night in New York and he was on the bill too,
he asked me where I was from. And I said, umm, you know,
Ireland, Northern Ireland, umm, because you're used to.
That's what you say is like even there I was like Northern, the
only place where you can't just say one place.
You've got to give all the options just in case somebody
gets a little bit offended, like Northern Ireland, north of
Ireland, the UK Britain era, you know, you just got to give all
the eventualities. I said Northern Ireland and he
was like, OK, and then said that he had some sort of interest in
the troubles. He's like, I find that very
interesting and like maybe done a bit of reading of it.
So that's something I had to talk to him about on the podcast
and stand up and loads other things as well.
Very, very, very nice gentleman. He's got a nice face.
He's duelist. There's a Tea with Me episode.
With my man jewelist. Joe, my number one question for
people when they come on the podcast is do you drink tea?
Maybe you could tell me a little bit about your interpretation of
of tea and yeah, I'd just love to know all about.
I I drink tea. I am drinking tea currently
right now and this is my second cup of the day.
This is a homemade cup in a Starbucks cup.
I start every day by going to Starbucks and getting an
Emperor's Clouds tea, which is a green tea and I drink 3 or 4,
sometimes 5 cups of tea a day. I'm a big tea guy.
Now, have you ever gone sort of traditional English breakfast
type tea like the Irish tea we would have?
I, I've been to, I've done that comedy, the Vodafone festival in
Dublin a couple times and like in all the green rooms there,
they only have just regular black tea.
So that I drank a lot of black tea when I was in Ireland.
I'll, yeah, I'll drink black tea if that's the option.
It's a lot more caffeine, so I need to be eating something with
it. But I, I do enjoy pretty much
any tea. I like a hot beverage, any like
real tea. I like a black tea, a green tea,
a white tea like chamomile tea, chamomile as you say over there.
But any kind of anything fruit, I don't do if it's like a mango.
Yeah. Whatever the fuck, I can't do
that. But mostly, I'm a green tea guy.
I mean, you've got to be really care.
I mean, obviously in New York you can definitely order an
Emperor's Clothes, whatever that is.
But in Dublin, if you ask for Emperor's Clothes, you're
definitely going to get drugs 100%.
No, I know I people when I go to Starbucks, I order Emperors.
It's actually called Emperor's Clouds and Mist is the official
name. And people are like, what?
What the fuck did you just order?
And I'm like, it's green tea. I got a green tea with, I don't
know, it's shades of something. I'm sure there's some kind of
lemongrass or some shit in there.
So there's there's something the way you have filled up your own
tea in a Starbucks cup. Something very, very rewarding
about that, where you feel like in a way, you're like beating
the system. It feels a little bit, feels a
bit rebellious, and you shouldn't be doing it.
Yeah. Well, I, I like, I mean I have
like OCD and shit like the, the folds in the, the little sleeve
thing. It fits into the folds of my
fingers. Like it just feels nice and it
also keeps it warm, like drinking out of a tea cup, which
which you're doing our coffee cup.
I find it it cools down too fast.
Like I tried to do a joke about this a long time ago but nobody
gives a shit about tea except this.
Is the platform. Right, Well, I always say like I
love tea except for the first and last sip of tea are a
nightmare like 'cause the first sip you're like, Oh my God, am I
going to burn my face off? And then the last one is just
shit. Like you're just drinking like,
you know, it's now like lukewarm and, and at the bottom is always
has like, you know, residue. It's just like, it's just nasty.
So I like drinking out of a coffee cup.
I like a like a Starbucks cup when I can.
So if I was in the crowd and you did that material for the first
time, you would still be doing that material Based on my
reaction, 100% I would have given you something for that,
definitely. I appreciate it.
You and I, you won't remember this.
You and I met, I did the stand. I did some gigs in the stand
like last year, like very early last year.
And that was my first time performing in in New York.
And I was just blown away by the standard of comedy and got to
like hang out and talk to some people like you.
And Mark, you do the Tuesday with stories with just very
briefly, like we're introduced to each other.
And you asked me where I was from.
I said I'm from like Ireland, Northern Ireland, Belfast.
I mean, we presume no one like knows anything about us.
And then you sort of said you had a little bit of an interest
in the troubles. And honestly, when you said
that, I felt like crying tears of joy and I phoned people back
home and I was like, there is a guy in America that knows us.
It was it was a beautiful moment.
Oh, thanks. Yeah, I think I was reading Say
Nothing at the time. The Patrick Keefe or Patrick
O'Keefe? I can't remember his name.
I think it's Patrick Keefe or O'Keefe, but yeah, he wrote a
book called Say Nothing and it's one of the, it's maybe my
favourite book ever. And I think I was in the middle
of it. So I wanted to talk about it
with anybody that would talk about it.
And you know, my, I have some Irish heritage or whatever which
I feel like people in Ireland never want to hear about
Americans talking about their Irish heritage.
But no. I, I think, I think you can like
I, I would have not dismissed that for a long time.
But like, yeah, like you say, you do hear a lot of that.
And then I went to America for Saint Patrick's Day like 2 years
ago and Manhattan nearly turned into a river with the tears.
I was crying. I was like, these people love
it. They are really into it.
Like they're really going for it and it was a good time.
But yeah, saying nothing is a very apartment title for a book
about that because that, that is the code here.
Like, literally, you probably thought it was a bit weird that
night because you asked me about the Troubles, and I think I just
left the club because you can't, like, you can't really say
anything about it. You know, it's one of those
things where, you know, you're talking about a period of
decades and decades of like, of bloodshed that is still kind of
like a bit of a thing here. And it's so weird that to me
that anybody from outside of here would know anything about
it and be reading about it. And I was just so proud that you
knew about all the bloody warfare that we'd had.
Oh, thanks. Yeah, No, it's, I mean, it's a
fascinating thing. And and now I feel like like
yesterday's events in the States sort of reminded me of of that
of, of the book and it feels like.
Well, it feels very simple. Yeah, it.
Feels it feels very similar in that it's, you know, it's
obviously it, it didn't get as dramatic or, or deadly or not
yet anyways, but it, it felt, you know, just people not in
uniform, just people regular, like regular people, you know,
engaging in some kind of a battle.
So yeah, I've always been fascinated by it and that book
is just amazing. Like there's so many stories in
that book that you're like, this should be a movie.
This could be a movie, just this one scene could be a movie.
And I've always been interested in I mean, I'm from the Boston
area and I don't know if you've spent time in Boston.
I probably asked you about it when we we saw each other like,
but that was something I was struck by when I first went to
Ireland. The first time is like, oh, we
nailed Irish pubs. Like I was like, I'm going to go
to an authentic Irish bar. And aside from the age and maybe
this is going to be people will hate me in, in Ireland for
saying this. But aside from the amount of
time it's been around, I'm like, oh, we kind of nailed it, which
I guess makes sense because the Irish bars were started by Irish
immigrants. So, but I'm like, yeah, this is
not that unlike bars in Dublin are not that unlike bars in
South Boston to me. Yeah, especially in the areas
you would have been in Dublin, probably.
It's like people were bringing you there for the first time.
They are areas that will have those quintessentially Irish
bars that are, you know, a lot of kind of street signs.
You've got the the traditional music and like, yeah, when I'm
in America, people from here, we always like, end up in Irish
bars and everything's great. And you're like, this does
remind me of home. And then one person says go away
instead of go away. And it just ruins your night.
I can't deal with this. But it's interesting to say
about like the events that are happening in your country at the
minute. Like that is really, that is a
Tuesday to us, you know what I mean?
Like that's kind of like we think we like, look at that like
it's not really that big of a thing because we had a similar
incident. Our government buildings were
nearly taken over like 10 years ago by this guy who's like quite
a famous. He was in a paramilitary.
He's been in gaol for a long time.
They let him out and then he tried to like get into
government buildings with a bomb, but he got stuck in the
revolving door in the front. And I mean, it was really just,
it was tough to watch on a lot of levels because like, the guy
had planned this for a long time.
And honestly, the revolving door really threw him off.
And a security guard just put his foot in the revolving door
and the guy was just stuck. Like it was really the meaning.
Like he's just stuck. And of course, this is all
caught on camera. And a female security, a very
tough female security guard just like twatted him on the head
with a bat. And he was just kind of, I mean,
it's an iconic image of this guy who like thinks he's, you know,
Rambo is just just stuck in it, a middle-aged man just suspended
in a revolving door. So like when we see the thing
with with you guys, with Capitol Hill like that, yeah, that
doesn't really stand out the people in in Northern Ireland
too much. Yeah, I guess you, you always
think, I mean, in this country, certainly we're, we're, we're
taught and, and, and sort of it's beaten into us that we're
#1 and we're the shining city on a hill and American
exceptionalism and all this stuff.
So it, it did feel very much like, oh, this is something we
watch in another country. And it feels like, it looked to
me like, you know, the American embassy being taken in Iran in
the 70s, you know, it was like, this is insanity.
So I think in America, everyone kind of holds us as like where
this we're America, we don't do that kind of stuff.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And and now it's just like, you
know, we're becoming a a joke, it feels like to me in a lot of
ways. I mean, I'm still glad I live
here. I'm not moving, but.
But I'm thinking about it, you know?
Yeah. From the outside in, like it
seems like so many stand ups in America that live in kind of the
what I would have thought were the comedy hotspots of of New
York and LA. Everybody seems to be moving out
to, you know, moving down South, moving to like totally, totally
different places. And it's crazy how something
that seems so solid, like I've been to LA couple probably
slightly more times in New York just to watch shows and do some
shows like open mics and things. And when you watch even the
Comedy Store documentary that was just on TV for us like last
week, you think, well, that's never going to go away.
But I mean, in these times it shows you that I don't think
stand up in LA will will go away, but it can have the rug
taken out from a pretty quick if a lot of big comedians decide to
just leave. Yeah, no, it's interesting.
And and I've been talking about that.
It's weird because in New York, you know, rents are so high,
cost of living is so high. And during pandemic here with
like the Comedy Cellar, which to me is like the greatest comedy
venue ever, ever. And they were doing like 8 or 9
shows a night, like on a Tuesday.
It was crazy. Everything's sold out.
And so now with pandemic, it's like that's slowed down and
tourism is slowed down till who knows when and people are going
to, you know, stay home and stuff.
And you start to go and I'm paying, people are paying $3000
a month in rent. I mean, I tell, I tell people my
family what I pay for rent and they like, they're like, they
think I'm kidding so. And and not to mention, you
know, the subway sucks and it's crowded and all this stuff.
So. And I've been doing stand up for
20 years and on the road. So you do get older and you're
like, boy, I wouldn't mind a yard that seems like fun, a a
driveway, a place to park, a supermarket with that you can't
touch both aisles with at the same time, you know?
Yeah, yeah. So it definitely makes you think
a little bit about going other places.
And from what I understand in California, like their taxes are
insanely high like that you can save tonnes and tonnes of money.
Like, you know, Joe Rogan just went to Texas and a few other a
bunch of comics have moved to Nashville.
So yeah, it's, it's changes in the air, I guess.
I mean, here is so small that that would never really work.
I mean, I could move to a totally different town or city,
but it's still be within like 30 minutes drive of the capital.
Like we don't that that's the good thing though, when like you
say about like you would like a yard you can be in.
Like where I live is such a small place.
You can be in our capital city in Belfast and then quite
literally 10 minutes later you can be in like the green
countryside. Yeah, that seems.
That's pretty great. I mean and how far is Dublin
from Belfast? Is that what, 5 hours?
Four hours? Oh, like 90 minutes, honestly.
Like, yeah, I mean you're everything is like within
driving distance to the point where we used like I started
gigging. You would like drive to Dublin
to do a show, you do a gig down there and then you might come
back and get like a one of the later gigs in Belfast.
It everything is so it's so small, it's so close together,
which some people love and some people hate because if you live
in a town or a village, like everybody knows everybody's
business. One of those kind of like it's
it's like 3° of separation here with everyone.
Interesting. So now I'm like interviewing
you, but has, has the border crossing changed yet or is this
changed because I, I know the, the situation with the EU is
there going to because I know that was something people were
worried about. Now is if you know there's now a
border crossing, you're getting stopped and I'd that could flare
things up a little bit between the two countries.
I think The thing is like Northern Ireland especially is
like a real special case for Brexit in that we're on the
island of Ireland, but we're technically part of Great
Britain. So it puts you in a very strange
position. But we, I don't think we really
know what's going on as a as a people.
And we probably like left it too late to ask, you know, people in
England or people in Ireland, like, what's the deal with this?
So we all pretend we understand what Brexit is and what it
means. But like us and like our
politicians, like we have, we have apps.
I think we're just trying to see who's going to give this like
better stuff out of the European Union or, or, or the UK.
But the thing with the border is there, there is like thousands
of border crossings here. So they could never properly
bring in a border because like there's like you can just go to
your great uncle's garden and he will have a border crossing.
Right there. But yeah, I think a border would
would cause like loads, loads attention.
And there's a sea border now which people are giving up.
I mean, I don't know why people are giving off that because it's
not applicable really to any. No one's getting to Dublin from
Belfast by a boat. But like, it just takes the
slightest thing here for politics to really kick off.
Like our newspapers, we can put an article up saying you and I
have done this podcast on like one of the local newspaper
Facebook pages and it would take like 3 comments before it
descends into other sectarian chaos not based on anything
we've talked about. Right.
Yeah, that's, that's not unlike here also, or just the Internet
in general, which I do have some, which is scary to me, but
I do have something of like, I'll watch documentaries and
you're kind of like, oh, I think it's always been like that.
It's just now we can see everybody's dialogue.
I forget what I was watching. I don't know, it was some kind
of. Maybe there's a cult thing or
some other thing, but, you know, you have all these people
screaming at each other and you're like, oh, OK, this has
always been like that. It's just now it's happening
online, so it's a little more clear for everyone to read.
So it feels a little more like we're deteriorating.
And I think, you know, maybe we are.
I don't know. I have some hope.
And we've nowhere to go. You've nowhere to really turn
away and look at something else. Because the same thing is just
happening on, on Facebook, on Twitter or wherever.
Everything is like a debate now. Like, because because we're at
home, there's no, there's no real escape from it.
What the Hell's going on with your balls?
Let me ask you that right now. Do me a favour, right?
Take your belt off. By the way, this is only like if
you're like over 8, in fact, even like 1819.
Weird for me to be asked you to do this if you're over 25.
Take your jeans off wherever you listen to this podcast, Take
your pants off to look down and tell me what you're looking at.
If you're looking at, you know, streamlined hair, if you're
looking at a tight cut, keep going.
I'm sure you use this product anyway.
But if you take your treasures and pants off wherever you
listen to this podcast and you know your father in
They're bringing sexy back for 20/21.
We're all going like, you know, those guys are doing those weird
piggy blinder skin fades at the side.
We want to continue that the whole way down.
You know, you've got to have that piggy blinder pubic hair.
And I've always said that. I've always said that it's got
to be down there. You want to be more Tommy Shelby
than I don't know if there's any other famous Shelby's Tommy
Shelby or Tommy. You want to be more Tommy Shelby
than Tommy Robinson? Tommy Robinson, Tommy Cooper.
Yeah. Tommy Cooper and Tommy Robinson,
the boys. Umm, yeah.
Well, yeah, Tommy Cooper did have like on the, that the
confess that he already did have like, straggly kind of hair,
very sly. When he died on stage, people
thought it was part of the ACT. How much do you?
Hate that. Well, you wouldn't know you're
dead. But like I'm just saying, if he
I don't know what happens after you die.
And bear in mind this is still the sponsor.
But if you come out of your own body and you're like looking
down at yourself as a ghost, you must be ripping because you're
lying there dead. Everyone's like, ah, Tommy
classic. Routine.
Like he's dead. They're like, Oh yeah, that told
me he's a boy. And the guy's like, no, I'm a
genuine Dr. There is no. Pulse and it's like 3 hours
later it's pronounced dead. We're in the morgue.
Oh, this is a very interactive sketch.
He's been dead for 17 years. No he's not.
It's a long sketch from tommyanywaymanscape.com.
You get the lawnmower 3.0. What is the lawnmower 3.0?
I used the lawnmower 2.00 Nerd virgin.
The lawnmower 3.0 is 100% where it's at.
It's a. It's a.
Tremor for your downstairs, you know what I mean?
You go to manscape.com, look at all the products they got.
They got razor and because this is 20/21, this is what we do.
We shave ourselves down there, not like each other, which
shaves yourself and they've got ball cleanser, ball wipes, Wade
wackers for shaving your hair, your ears and your nose.
It's just a good time. And if I haven't sold it to you
yet, the Lawnmower 3 Point O has a wee light on and things are
always more fun when they've got a wee light on them, you know?
So manscape.com use the code P with me all one word T with me
for 20% off and. Free shipping.
I want to talk to you a lot about stand up as well.
But you mentioned you had like your Irish family a little bit
of background here. Do you have you looked much into
that? Like, do you know a lot about
it? No, it's funny.
So I my, my grandfather his there's my, my grandmother, my
father's mother, I believe, I can't, I don't know if I think
her parents were from Ireland. She was born in the States, but
she might have been born in Ireland.
I'm not 100% sure. And then my grandfather, my
father's father, his last name is he's list.
And he told me since I was a kid that I, I never looked into it
other than just from him, but that, you know, a lot of Germans
list as a German name, but a lot of Germans went West in whatever
century. So he was always like, yeah, our
name is German, but there was several generations in Ireland
and I, I never looked into it. I always just went, OK, great.
OK, So there's several generations in Ireland.
And then I wondered if, like, you know, he was a kid in the
40s if he just went, no, no, no, I'm not German.
We're Irish. I swear to God.
It's entirely possible that he had heard, you know, Germans
migrated to Ireland in whatever century and he went with that
story. But you know, he had all the
shamrocks and all the thing and, and he was proud of his Irish
heritage and so was my grandmother.
But no, I never really looked into it.
And it's funny, 'cause I, I tried to do, somebody got me a
23andMe thing and I haven't used it.
But then I tried doing research. But if you look up surname or
last name list, it just gives you a list of names.
My, my last name is list LIST. And it's like impossible to
Google. I tried for so long and I was
getting like angry 'cause it was just giving me the lists of last
names. It it sounds like your
grandfather is every base covered?
Yeah, I mean, that's what it, that's what it it, it felt like.
But, and my grandmother is, is Tui and then my mother on my
mother's side, my grandmother on my mother's side is a McKinnon.
MC McKinnon. She rapped.
What's that? She rapped.
Yes, she's she's MC McKinnon, the hip hop artist, famous hip
hop artist from from I tried to think of an Irish town.
I couldn't think of 1. Yeah, I mean, The thing is there
is Irish rap and I think it would, it would really interest
you. It's it's worth having a little
bit of a YouTube look through some some some Irish rappers.
Oh, maybe I'll check it out after this.
But but anyways. So I don't know that much of
where they're from and all that, but I do know that my family is
is, is Catholic and doesn't talk much about anything or show any
affection. And they all drink and and sing
and they're loud. So we all have that going.
Yeah. Certainly if it looks like it
and sounds like it, I'm, I'm going with it.
But yeah, there's definitely a lot of that.
Not a lot of emotion, not a lot of hugging, not a lot of just a
lot of there's a, you know, saying, I don't know if it
started there, but everyone in Boston says it is Irish
Alzheimer's. You forget everything but the
grudge. Is that a term you guys use
over? There.
No, but I like it. Yeah.
I, I spent a couple of days in Boston early last year and, and,
and did a, did a show, but it was like a very, very, very
small tourist show where it was just people from home that kind
of happened to live in Boston that came to it And, and it was
great. I walked around.
Is there like a big indoor market in Boston?
Faneuil Hall maybe? Yes, yeah, with loads of
different like food stands and that kind of yeah, I did that.
Just had a little walk around the around the city and it was,
it was great. The Boston, Chicago,
Philadelphia and then and then New York.
But like those places like Boston and Philly especially it
like although there is a big Irish population, it does feel a
lot more homelier to me than certainly like the West Coast
and New York. Even though I like those places,
there is like a homely friendly type thing in in Boston,
especially if. Yeah, definitely no, New
England, that area is, is is so much like that.
There's so much warmth and I do think a lot because there's so
much English and Irish heritage. Obviously it's like that was
kind of the Bay. I mean, it's New England and you
know, Boston is such an Irish town.
So you do have a lot of those like, you know, I think of like
big sweaters and tea drinking and, and beer drinking and, and
pubs and huge families and family gatherings.
And there's a lot of, you know, let's get together and, and sing
and watch music and be like the fireplace.
It definitely feels a lot of those homey family qualities
that you just, I just don't see. Maybe it's because I'm from
there, but I just don't feel in the Midwest or down South.
Like, you know, New Mexico and Arizona just do not feel as
warmth and welcoming to me as New England.
But maybe people that are from there might hear that and be
like, what are you been saying? Everyone in Boston's racist
assholes. What, are you crazy?
So a lot of that is just my own experience and preference I
guess. Joe, I, I, my manager is called
Joe and looks very, very, very like you.
Like very, very like you. And there was a moment a couple
of minutes ago where I called you Joe, but thought, Oh no,
I've called you my manager's name, Joe, but then he is also
called Joe. So that's confusing.
But just to let you know, you look a lot like my manager, who
is also called Joe. Yeah, he sounds like a sexy man.
I should have. I have a shower.
This is like kind of a bed head. I had something to do before
this so I usually look a lot better than this folks.
Yeah, no, it's all good. Joe, let me ask you about but
how you got into stand up because I started listening to
your podcast about maybe like about a year ago.
And then it's so good for just having a little bit of an
insight into what it's like being a being a stand up in such
a comedy city like like New York.
And yeah, absolutely great podcast.
But I don't know much about kind of your journey in the stand up
and how you got started. Did you get started in Boston or
was it when you when you moved to New York?
No, so I I started in Boston, yeah, I started in October of
2000. I graduated high school in like
June of 2000. And yeah, it's all I wanted to
do was to be a stand up. And then for like a few months,
I just kind of was trying to get up the, a, like the, the balls
to go do it. But also like, as you know, I
like, I don't know what it's like there, but like when you
start doing stand up, you're like, I don't even know where to
go. And now it's a little easier, I
think, 'cause you have the Internet and podcasts or
whatever. But at the time I was just like,
I don't know, where do I even go to say, Hey, I'm a, I'd like to
be a comedian. And I grew up on the suburbs
about 35 minutes South of Boston.
I took the train and and I just was aimlessly walking around and
I found this. I just saw next to Fenway Park a
sign that said open mic Wednesday at this place called
Chops Lounge, which is like a kind of a Chinese restaurant
slash dive hotel. And I was like, this is it OK?
I found the sign and I like wrote it down in a pen and paper
and then went into like the phone book and called them.
And it was like an Asian restaurant.
And they were like, you know, I don't want to offend anyone, but
they're like, like, it was like, you know what I mean?
I know it's very not cool to do, but that's what it's.
I was just, you know, Asian. I'm like, I have no idea what's
happening. And I was like, all right, I'll
just show up. I'll just go there.
And I went there and it was like the truest open mic.
It was this guy named called Larry Lee Lewis.
And he was like, you want to go first?
And I was like, OK, sure. I don't know.
And I ended up getting bumped by some like crazy.
It was like a real open mic where there was just actual
crazy people and maniacs going up and a few comics.
And I went up and did 3 minutes. And then afterwards, this guy,
Larry Lee Lewis, he gave me his card and was like, that was
great. That was great, man.
He's like, you got to come back, come back next Wednesday.
And I felt like, OK, I'm in. I'm in show business, I'm in
comedy. And then I started going every
Wednesday and doing 3 minutes. And this is like a theme in my
life. I was like, perfect, I'm doing
it. I I didn't occur to me to like
do another place. Yeah, yeah.
So the first year I did comedy, I did like there was 52 weeks in
the year and I think I did 50 sets every Wednesday.
And it wasn't till like year 2 that a guy, an older comic was
like, how come I never see you any of the other places?
And I was like, what other places?
And then that it grew from there, where I started going,
there's a, there's an open mic here and there's this place here
and I was underage at the time. It, you know, drinking age is 21
here. So a lot of places I couldn't
get into because I was a teenager.
But basically that was it. I started doing all these open
mics and eventually this guy named Ed Regal, who had a bar
called the Emerald Isle, ironically in, in Dorchester.
And he said, Hey, I'll, I'll, I have a show on Saturday.
And then I, he's like, you want to do it?
I did it and he handed me like 25 bucks afterwards.
And of course, I was like, oh, you don't have to give me money.
And it was really helpful because he was like, this is a
brutal, really difficult business.
Anytime anybody offers you any amount of money, you take it.
Yeah, yeah. And I was like, you got it.
And so, so the next thing, that was it now.
But I remember leaving there being like, all right, I'm a
professional comedian now. And that was probably 2 1/2
years in and and it progressed from there.
What's happened to Larry in the since?
I don't know where Larry is. He was doing so he did an act.
He played piano and did old jokes.
They were stolen. The only joke of his that was
original that I thought was hilarious was he said, I got, I
know, 1000 jokes all told, all told by somebody else.
And he did like he did Milton Berle jokes and Rickles and
Dangerfield joke. You know, I'm trying to get down
to my original weight, 8 lbs three oz.
But he was like a middle-aged pothead, you know, old to me.
He was old at the time. He was probably, looking back,
he was probably like 49 or something.
But I don't know where he is. I don't know if he's still
working or not, or if he's alive.
I hope he's alive, but yeah, I'm not sure.
And what's the what's the kind of what's the current status of
of stand up where you are? Because the thing I found
amazing about New York, I mean, we don't, we literally don't
have in this country like a weekend club.
You can, you can do like Monday to Thursday, but like if you're
lucky, there's some of us that get to do like 3 or 4 shows a
week sometimes. So the thing that was crazy
about New York is you guys were doing 5 spots a night, maybe
sometimes more, a little bit less.
So has everything kind of just totally stopped?
Are you still able to do the likes of those rooftop shows you
that were going on or what? How is it?
How is it at the minute? Yeah, so it's a it's, it's a
little weird and there's different things available right
now In New York. For a while, indoor dining was
available and a couple places were kind of doing shows kind
of, you know, quietly saying, well, it's dinner.
But there's a guy talking, 'cause we weren't supposed to do
shows. But those have kind of shut down
now 'cause there's no indoor dining any anymore.
But there are a couple outdoor rooftop shows with little
heaters. I haven't done one in a few
weeks. I'm doing 1 next week.
So there's a couple. But I mean, you know, it's cold.
I mean, it's 25° outside. So there's a few shows here and
there. And then some clubs are open.
Like some people like you listen to my podcast, like Mark Norman,
he's, he's been working, he does gigs.
I think they're, you know, half capacity, some of these clubs
and as I'm sure you guys are aware, like there's a lot of
parts of this country that just don't give a shit about COVID or
don't believe in COVID so. Yeah, yeah.
I don't know anything about Arizona, but it seems to me like
they're not stopping anything. Yeah, exactly.
They're I think that's where Mark is, ironically.
But yeah, so some people are working during the summer.
It was nice because there was outdoor gigs everywhere and it
was obviously warm and nice out. So there was a lot of shows
during that. But right now, if you want to
work, you can work, but it's half capacity.
People have to wear masks and there's a lot of protocols.
So I've been taking this time to just not do it like I, I was
doing, like you said, so many shows a night on the road and
working for 20 years. So right now I'm like, I'm just
kind of enjoying being a podcaster and trying to kind of
embrace the break. And, and my thought is it will
go back to normal or normal issue where we can go on the
road and work every night and every weekend.
But hopefully, knock on wood, we're never going to go back to
a period like this where it's like, hey, please don't work.
So if I can feel like I'm doing service to society by not
working while also kind of taking a break, I'm like, great,
this is perfect. And I don't know about you, but
it was obviously we can't gig as much, as much as somewhere like
New York, but you know, you gig as much as possible and kind of
do this full time. And it's, it's the first time in
what, 13 years that I've not done stand up regularly.
So it was the first time I'd ever really had a chance to kind
of sit down and look at my ACT a little bit and analyse it a bit
more because you can't seem just on the go trying to get new
material, that kind of thing. And this was the first time
where I was, I was able to take a step back from it.
And the shows, like you say, we have that thing where like,
yeah, if there was food on, you got to do a show.
I had a nice little run for about a week or two when that
was allowed. And I think they were some of
like the best shows because for the first time, I was able to
just just tweak a couple of things.
And, you know, it was the novelty of getting to do stand
up again. The adrenaline was at that good
level where it's like, I've missed doing this, but I'm so
happy to be doing it. So do you think that this will
have, for better or worse, in any way, changed you as a as a
comedian? I think that there's definitely
a lot of things that have happened during this that I want
to take into, back into stand up when we start again.
Because I kind of had that thought of like I never took
more than like 7 days off in a row in 20 years.
And that was only maybe once a year, once every every once in a
while. And like I'd be like, I'll take
tonight, I'm taking Monday off and then I'm back.
I got to do three sets Tuesday to make up for Monday.
And now it's like a little more, I realise like you could take
several nights off and, and be fine.
So I definitely, and there's a lot of shows I would do at 1:00
in the morning. I have a set at 1:15 AM at the
Comedy Cellar and I'm like, I don't want to be out till 2:00
in the morning anymore, which I felt that way before this
shutdown, but I was too afraid to kind of say that 'cause I was
afraid of losing whatever. So there's definitely a lot that
that's, that's helped me that I want to take with me moving
forward of like time off and time away from stand up.
But I I also at the same time I do, I do miss it and I love
podcasting and making videos or doing whatever other ways to be
creative. But there really is nothing that
compares to the feeling of like finishing a set.
And especially when it goes well, even if it goes bad, I
still feel great after doing stand up.
So I definitely miss that. And then doing like a meet and
greet after the show where it's such a unique opportunity to
live a life where like. You can stand at the bar and
have like 50 people, be like, you're great, that was great.
You know what I mean? There's not that many jobs like
that. So I definitely miss that a lot.
But yeah, I think, I think definitely taking it easy, but
working and finding the balance is something I want to do moving
forward. And something I ask everyone
has, has this kind of period of, of reflection and not being able
to do as much as you did. Has it made you like realise any
like ambitions that relying under the surface of like a
project you'd really love to do, even if it's something totally
different to, to the sort of thing you normally would like?
Is there something you'd like to write or I, I don't know.
I I feel like everyone has one project that's kind of come out
of them a little bit more. Yeah, definitely.
So it's, it's hard. I get mad at myself because I
started writing a script when this happened and I got really
well into it, like 100 pages in or some not 100 pages.
That was like 85 pages in and I had a couple of people read it
and they were really into it and then they gave me notes and then
it just felt so daunting to finish and I put it aside and
haven't finished it. So right now I'm in that mode of
like hating myself for not finishing it.
But that's something. And I definitely have been, you
know, shooting some more videos and, and, and a couple sketches
and trying to do something like that.
And I've been trying to learn guitar, which is something I
always wanted to do and never felt like I could do.
But so I've been kind of fucking around on the guitar a little
bit and trying to do some more video stuff.
And I was always really into photography too.
And, and, and next week I'm meeting up with a friend of
mine. He's a photographer to have him
show me a few things on a camera.
So I'm like, you know, I'm trying to find other ways to be
sort of artistic. And I've been reading a lot,
which has been nice. You know, rate like I, I always
think that I am a reader in general, but really when it
comes down to it, I don't think I've read a book apart from
being on holidays and maybe like 6-7 years.
I'm not really, that makes me feel uncomfortable.
I'm like, I've got to read something.
So I think I'm going. I mean, there was a period where
I was big, big Harry Potter guy and then I just, I dropped off
when the really big one came out.
I don't know if you're in the Harry Potter, but when I think
it was Order of the Phoenix came out, a lot of people like me
just dropped out. We were like, I can't commit to
a book this size. So I think my challenge is going
to be get back into that. Yeah, let's you read and I'll
learn guitar and then we'll reconvene.
I'll play a song while you read. Pug I mean, do you feel like I
think podcasting more than I thought would fills the void a
little bit more. You know what, you know,
speaking to other comedians and obviously podcast is a good way
to you're not like trying material, but if you have a
thought during the podcast and you're like, oh, that could be a
little bit of material. I think podcasting has become it
was obviously so big beforehand, but I think to to comedians,
it's such an important, such an important outlet.
And have you noticed that like your podcast and you think you
there, there's been like a big jump up since this since
lockdown started? Yeah, I think so.
It's definitely grown well also during pandemic, I do a podcast
with Mark Norman. Like we've both released
specials that did really well and Mark has gone and done Rogan
and and I did Marin. So like we've both been doing a
lot of stuff to kind of to push it.
So it, it's definitely grown during that during this time for
sure. And it is, it is really fun.
But I I just beat myself up where I'm like, you know, in my
mind I'm like, all right, I'm still creating.
But I'm like, you're a podcaster.
You never wanted to be a podcaster, you piece of shit.
What is this you're just talking about, you know, whatever.
So a lot of it that is just self hatred, self doubt and all that
stuff. Like you're a fraud.
We we all have that a little bit to some degree I think, yeah.
Yeah, I think it's just it's a great thing to keep keep going
with. And whenever you were, whenever
you guys were still doing show and Mark, you said it's still
doing shows and he's coming on this podcast the next couple of
weeks too. But you know, whenever you were
doing the outdoor shows and that kind of thing that was appeared
where nothing was happening here.
So it was so great. As a comedian, listen to that
because I'm kind of able to take some enjoyment in hearing about
you guys gigs and the other comedy podcasts I listen to.
It's just really interesting to hear that like something is
something is happening, but I, I mean, I don't know.
I, it's made me want to travel with, stand up a lot more and go
to places that I, that I, that I've never been to.
Have you ever done Australia? No, it's funny you bring that
up. I was supposed to be in
Australia like 2 weeks after we shut down.
I think I was going there April 7th through the 15th or
something like that. I was doing the Melbourne Comedy
Festival which took me like years to book.
They got the Woman Saw me and I performed for her and then they
were like, well, we're we're booked this year and all this
stuff. And it was this long process and
I was so thrilled to finally make it happen.
And I was like 10 days away from or whatever it was maybe 2 weeks
away from going when everything shut down.
So hopefully I can re redo that. But no, I've never I've never
been over there. But that's what I miss a lot is
especially going to the UK and to Ireland.
I've gotten to do Paris and Israel like going.
Being able to travel from me to other countries to perform has
been like a thrill and I definitely miss that.
When you performed in Paris, did you by any chance to to digging
for a guy called Sebastian Guy run it runs a gig in like a
loft. Yeah, yeah, I.
Knew you were comedy night. Yeah, I did.
Well, I opened for Louis CK there a couple times, but the
most recent 1A Guy Sebastian I think.
Was yeah, glasses I'm. Pretty sure, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, from that gig. That's a, that's a real fun gig
because it's nice he gets a little bit of a crowd in and you
just think like I'm this is in Paris.
Yeah, yeah. Something just so incredible
about that. Yeah, no, it's it's great.
I mean, for me too, it's like anytime comedy brings me to like
these really cool places, I'm like, it gives you that feeling
of like, this is insane. This is amazing.
Yeah, yeah. I thought the last time I did
that Paris gig for him, I build it as like, you know, it's part
of the tour, but it like it obviously was not like a tour
show, but it was just so I could say it's an international tour
and at the end of the show, like the show got, it was really
nice. I bought a friend over reopened
and we had a nice time. We went to see Dunkirk earlier
in the day, which was a terrible idea because it's obviously such
a bleak film. And we just felt bad that we, we
couldn't help, you know, we couldn't help the guys get off
Dunkirk beach in any way. And, and then we did that gig
and it wasn't until like a couple of weeks later where I
was like, this is great. But at the gig I said at the
end, I was like, so like, who's from home?
You know, there's just like a guy, just a guy.
And he was the one that didn't really enjoy it.
You know, you know, sometimes I, I focus in on the one person
who's like indifferent or really not into it.
She was the only, the only guy who intentionally came to see
it. That's.
Classic. Yeah, it's my dad, but it's just
that, yeah, it's just a good time.
And it's so, I mean, I know you can go to so many different
States and cities, but I don't think people like me take
advantage of how easy it is for us to go to different cities in
Europe. You know, you're talking like a
couple. By the time it takes you to get
to maybe another state, we can be in totally different country.
Yeah, that's what's always been fascinating to me about Europe,
because Europe is like, it's like the United States to me.
Like you can you go from Paris to whatever, you know, Frankfurt
or, or, or, you know, Milan or whatever, It's like the same
distance to Michigan here. You know, it's strange.
And then we thought it was going to be because of Brexit, we
thought it was going to be really difficult.
But then like, I've always had an Irish passport, so it means
you can travel on an EU passport.
So it shouldn't get more difficult.
But yeah, it's one of those things where once lockdown
happened, I was like, I was just about to do all these things,
but I probably wouldn't have, you know, a lot of things I was
like, I'll do that down the line.
But now I want to make sure that I really do do these things,
starting with the Order of the Phoenix.
Yeah. No, it's definitely, it
definitely gives you a lot of perspective of like, OK, this is
more important than that. Let me try to get this done.
Yeah, I'm sure. And having other things going
on, like not spending so much time gigging and taking a little
bit of time off here or there, that's where the expert for me,
That's where the material comes from.
You know, that's where you witness things that you wouldn't
if you were waiting to go on at a comedy club or hanging out in
the same place. Yeah, completely.
You have to live some life or otherwise all your bits are just
going to be. Isn't it crazy when the waitress
spills a drink, folks? Just over there?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you do have to go live some life for sure.
Yeah, Joe, I really appreciate you.
You doing the podcast. You mentioned, you know, having
a special out. The great thing is you've got a
special on YouTube, which is brilliant because people can
just go and see it. Same with Mark and guys like
Sam, Sam Morill, Sam Morill or Sam Morill.
I say Sam Morrill. I think he says Morrill, but
people say moral and it's it's fine, but I think it's, I've
been saying Sam Morrill and I'm one of his closest friends, so.
I think. It's Morrill.
But the real thing is so many people just put are putting
stuff on YouTube, you know, and it's and you can go find it.
You can go see it. But that special is great.
We'll we'll put it in the the description of this episode and
you'll enjoy the analytics of 5 views from from Northern Ireland
on that. You're welcome.
I'll take it. Yeah, I appreciate it.
Joe, thank you so much. I really appreciate your time.
You know, fantastic podcast and yeah, cheers for taking the
time. Yeah, thank you, Shane.
I appreciate it was really fun.