1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:04,280 Prime big Deal days is coming October 8th and 9th, which can 2 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:08,680 lead to involuntary deal squeals like the infamous deal on a new 3 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:13,920 massager squeal. Save big on prime big deal days 4 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:25,120 October 8th and 9th. Zippers, welcome to this episode 5 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:29,000 of the Tea With Me podcast with me, your mate Shane Todd 6 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:31,840 Zippers. It's the Wednesday episode. 7 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:34,840 I'll be going solo on Friday, but this is a guest episode. 8 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:39,360 We are sponsored before I get into it by manscape.com. 9 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:44,960 Manscape is, let's just say Manscape is an electric razor. 10 00:00:45,160 --> 00:00:47,480 It's a third generation lawnmower trimmer. 11 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:50,600 And let's say it's for your hair, but not the one on top of 12 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:56,760 your head, but more you're the hair that would be, let's just 13 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:00,760 say below your belly button and above your may I be crude and 14 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:05,720 say shaft. It's got skin safe technology. 15 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:07,840 It's waterproof, it's adjustable. 16 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:10,000 It's got an adjustable guard with two lengths. 17 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:12,040 I mean, it's always a good option to have length. 18 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:15,600 You go to manscape.com, use the code T with me. 19 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:17,760 You get 20% off and free shipping. 20 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:21,720 This is a this is a great gift by a loved one or a stranger. 21 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:24,040 You know nothing more better than going up to a stranger. 22 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:27,440 Maybe you see it for a daily walk handling this Manscape Lawn 23 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:30,560 Mower 3.0 and saying hey mate, just thought your pubes could do 24 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:32,640 with this. Have a great day, have a blessed 25 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:33,440 day. Bless God. 26 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:37,360 So you can go on and check the products at manscape.com. 27 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:43,160 Let me just say I'm a customer producer Dan as a customer and I 28 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:46,840 know he's a customer because this is weird, but every time I 29 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:50,560 see him in the flesh, trust me, there's more flesh than I care 30 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:53,720 to see and it's smooth. It's very smooth. 31 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:57,040 That's because he's using his lawnmower 3.0 from Manscape. 32 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:00,320 So go and check that out. Tea with me for 20% off and free 33 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:02,720 shipping. You can get a like a bundle with 34 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:05,120 a travel case as well that I have that I can travel on 35 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,240 because even if I go to the shops, I take my lawnmower 3.0 36 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:10,919 just in case. I think there's too much hair 37 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:13,320 down there. We also need to plug our 38 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:16,200 Patreon, which is patreon.com/tea with Me podcast. 39 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:19,480 We can get extra content for the podcast, including the bonus 40 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:22,000 episode and the Monday. And we're about to do another 41 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:23,800 live episode. Another one. 42 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:26,800 It's on dot com slash Tea with Me podcast. 43 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:32,840 My guest today is David Blevins. David is the Ireland 44 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:38,560 correspondent for Sky News and has been for I think 26 years, 45 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:40,800 he said, well, maybe 16 years anyway. 46 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:43,480 A lot of years, 26, I think, Yeah. 47 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:47,520 And in that time he has covered some unbelievable stories. 48 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:52,520 He is some some of the biggest stories that ever happened here. 49 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:55,520 David has been the guy reporting on it, including a lot of 50 00:02:55,520 --> 00:03:00,320 political stuff, the Good Friday Agreement, the Omar bomb, the 51 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:04,880 Queen visiting Ireland, these huge stories David was there for 52 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:08,400 and he speaks so well about them and just a thoroughly nice guy. 53 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:10,120 So I think you'll enjoy this episode. 54 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:15,200 I will be back with the solo episode on Friday as per and 55 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:17,000 there. And look, we'll be ranting about 56 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:19,080 a few things on Friday. So let's just enjoy it. 57 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:22,920 But let's get into this episode with my man David Blevins 58 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:24,760 zippers. See you on the other side, 59 00:03:29,640 --> 00:03:31,760 David. Thanks for doing the podcast. 60 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:35,560 I ask everyone, you've got to tell me first of all about your 61 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:38,400 your tea habits. You know, and don't feel that 62 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:41,440 you've got to beg them up just to join the Tea with Me podcast. 63 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:43,880 If you if you only drink a couple months, let's just be 64 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:47,960 honest about it. This will be the first 65 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:50,520 confession probably of the podcast. 66 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:56,360 I don't really drink tea. I drink gallons of coffee and 67 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:59,960 I'm not snobbish about anything else in the world. 68 00:03:59,960 --> 00:04:03,440 I come from a really working class background, so there's 69 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:06,520 nothing snobbish about me apart from coffee. 70 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:11,080 I hate instant coffee, but I I drink gallons of coffee every 71 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:12,400 day. I suppose it's what keeps me 72 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:15,080 going. And the best coffee in the world 73 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:17,160 is Kenyan. I fell in love with Kenyan 74 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:21,200 coffee visiting Africa way back about 10 years ago. 75 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:25,800 I fell in love with it so much I went 10 times in 10 years and. 76 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:29,440 Just for the coffee. Not quite, but the coffee was a 77 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:32,760 big part of the journey. So I drink more coffee than I do 78 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:34,520 tea. Well, you know, you know what, 79 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:35,560 David? Normally I'd be very 80 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:37,400 disappointed that somebody doesn't drink tea. 81 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:39,880 But your your level of commitment to your coffee 82 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:42,240 drinking outweighs my disappointment that you don't 83 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:44,840 drink enough tea. You say, you say there that you 84 00:04:44,840 --> 00:04:48,000 don't really drink tea. So that makes me think somewhere 85 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:51,360 in the back of my mind there is maybe an instance, there is 86 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:55,680 maybe a certain situation where you might accept a cup of tea. 87 00:04:55,800 --> 00:05:01,720 What would that situation be? If I'm totally asked, the only 88 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:06,760 time I would really not drink coffee is if there is nothing 89 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:10,520 else available but instant coffee and I might be tempted to 90 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:13,240 have a cup of tea then. But literally I would drink tea 91 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:17,280 like twice a month. My wife Ruth doesn't really 92 00:05:17,280 --> 00:05:19,120 drink coffee at all. She's the complete opposite. 93 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:22,240 She drinks tea all the time. So Ruth has an interesting. 94 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:24,920 Dynamic. I mean, I'm, I'm like, I'm 95 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:28,120 fairly new to coffee. So I mean, I don't know coffee 96 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:30,320 at all, but you know, I'm pretty new to it. 97 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:31,760 Maybe have a cup of coffee a day. 98 00:05:32,280 --> 00:05:34,920 And it's funny that you say about instant coffee because I 99 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:36,880 also would definitely turn my nose up at instant coffee. 100 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:39,720 But I can't taste the difference between instant coffee and the 101 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:41,680 finest artisan coffee of all time. 102 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:43,600 But I think I just don't like the fact that it's called 103 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:45,840 instant coffee. I like the idea that you've got 104 00:05:45,840 --> 00:05:48,760 to work for it a bit more. But I'd say, I mean, in your 105 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:52,840 profession, I would say you pick up the habit of drinking coffee 106 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:56,320 probably quite easily because you're on the go so much because 107 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:58,400 you're working crazy hours at times as well. 108 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:01,440 And sometimes maybe you know, having to having to stay up to 109 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:02,840 see what, what develops or something. 110 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:07,320 Yeah, and I much prefer to have me at my own coffee at home 111 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:09,600 because we've got one of those wee machines. 112 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:12,600 It's not a very fancy machine. I kind of long for one of the 113 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:16,040 really top of the range ones, but we use the little pods in 114 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:18,640 there, so it is real coffee. But apart from that, I'm 115 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:21,920 probably keeping the Apple Green on the M1 in shares because at 116 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:24,520 least you can get a real cup of coffee there on your way to or 117 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:28,160 from Belfast. I'll be honest and it's not been 118 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:30,400 said on the podcast yet and it might not be said again, but 119 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:34,760 Lavazza is very underrated for their for their tea and coffee. 120 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:39,440 Big fan, but I also use the pod. And I think you'll agree, David, 121 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:42,280 that there's nothing worse on earth than whenever you think 122 00:06:42,280 --> 00:06:45,440 you've put a pod in, you make a coffee and then you're just left 123 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:47,960 with warm water with a suggestion of brown in it. 124 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:52,480 There's nothing. That's absolutely right and I 125 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:55,800 have discovered on a couple of occasions that there's a dodgy 126 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:59,720 pod in the box as well where there's maybe only half the 127 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:03,080 amount of coffee in it and you get the same effect, but there's 128 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:06,000 there's nothing worse. You're absolutely right, and 129 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:07,920 you've got to start the process all over again. 130 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:11,320 David, there's so much I want to, I want to chat to you about 131 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:14,840 because someone who's worked in journalism for as long as you're 132 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:18,960 as yourself, I have so many, so many questions. 133 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:21,680 And you know, I've done a little bit of research, which I never 134 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:25,000 normally do about the sort of stories you've covered and all 135 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:26,520 that kind of thing. So I'd love to chat to you about 136 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:27,800 that, but. You must have been stuck for 137 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:30,840 something to read. Well, no, no, no. 138 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:35,680 I mean, look, you, I see you on my TV all the time because all 139 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:38,320 the time I do genuinely have Sky News on. 140 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:43,320 And then I want to ask you about today, for example, if I you're 141 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:45,240 maybe in Sky News, maybe in the studios. 142 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:50,640 I was going to say, do you like get told at the start of the 143 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:53,160 week you're going here to cover this there to cover that and 144 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,280 then you're going to do this? Or is that impossible because 145 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:58,840 the news you just have to wait for stuff to happen? 146 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:01,520 Is there is there ever days where you're just chilling out 147 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:04,080 nine to five in the studio, just taking it easy? 148 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:08,720 Not really. It's the question I think a lot 149 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:12,840 of people ask us when they want to know how journalism works. 150 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:15,680 Who makes the decision about what stories covered? 151 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:19,000 Is it the news editor? Is it you makes that decision? 152 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:22,360 You know, is it somebody further up the chain of command being 153 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:25,120 that decision? But literally there are no two 154 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:28,600 days the same. That's why I think I really love 155 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:30,360 doing this job after all these years. 156 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:33,919 These days they call me their senior Ireland correspondent, 157 00:08:33,919 --> 00:08:36,799 which simply just means I'm really old now and I've been 158 00:08:36,799 --> 00:08:40,840 doing this forever. But I love the fact that when 159 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:43,440 you wake up in the morning, you literally don't know if you're 160 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:48,120 going to be going out to interview been men who are on 161 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:50,680 strike or if you're going to be interviewing the Prime Minister, 162 00:08:50,680 --> 00:08:54,200 Boris Johnson, because he's decided to come and visit 163 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:58,400 Belfast for whatever reason. So literally, umm, it's dictated 164 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:01,920 by what's happening on the day. Normally, sometimes it's the 165 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:04,640 news editor in London who say we want you to do this today. 166 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:07,800 Sometimes it'll be me saying it's a bit quiet today, we need 167 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:10,400 to go off and do you know something that's going to run in 168 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:13,040 a couple of days time? There's just a range of 169 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:15,320 approaches to it and no two days are the same. 170 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:18,400 Umm, sometimes it's dictated by the fact that I've got something 171 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:21,600 landing in my inbox from the PS and I saying there's something 172 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:25,240 happening somewhere or from the ambulance service, the, the fire 173 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:26,480 service. So we literally are like 174 00:09:26,560 --> 00:09:30,280 ambulance chase sometimes, but it's it's just a range of 175 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:32,200 approaches but no two days the same. 176 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:35,160 And are you based? So are you based like in Belfast 177 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:36,960 and then you've got to cover all of Ireland or how does? 178 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:39,840 And also I've never seen like a Sky News building. 179 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:43,840 So do you have your own kind of Sky News building in Belfast? 180 00:09:44,560 --> 00:09:48,240 Well, I suppose the difference between US and BBC Northern 181 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:52,360 Ireland or UTV is that they have newsrooms here in Belfast. 182 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:57,080 We have what we call Bureau across the world, Home and 183 00:09:57,080 --> 00:10:00,360 International, which are kind of just Sky News offices. 184 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:04,520 And we've got an office on the Boucher Rd in Belfast. 185 00:10:04,680 --> 00:10:08,800 We've got an office in Dublin behind the Burlington Hotel at 186 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,960 Burlington Plaza. So for a very long time, it was 187 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:15,000 just me covering the whole island of Ireland. 188 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:18,360 But since Brexit came along and we needed to know everything 189 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:20,280 that the Irish government thought about everything. 190 00:10:20,560 --> 00:10:23,480 And that coincided with the DUP holding the balance of power in 191 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:25,200 Westminster. And we needed to know for a 192 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:27,280 while what the DUP thought about everything. 193 00:10:27,680 --> 00:10:31,080 Um, we hired, uh, reporter again, another correspondent in 194 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:32,880 Dublin. So I've got a colleague in 195 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:37,080 Dublin with his cameraman, I'm in Belfast with my cameraman and 196 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:39,600 we've got a producer who manages it all. 197 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:42,680 So really a small team of about just five of us covering the 198 00:10:42,680 --> 00:10:45,280 whole island out of two offices. Which it, which I never would 199 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:49,800 have thought because you know, I, I, I, I'll tell you a bit 200 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:52,000 about it, but I studied journalism for a couple of 201 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:53,160 years. Really. 202 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:55,680 Yeah. And before I did, I would have 203 00:10:55,680 --> 00:10:58,760 thought that whenever I see someone say outside, like inside 204 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:02,160 court report reporting on a story, I would have thought 205 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:04,600 there was maybe a team of six or seven there. 206 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:07,200 I would have thought there was camera, there was sound, there 207 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:09,640 was there was a maybe a production manager. 208 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:13,480 And then I remember you learn a bit more about it. 209 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:15,800 And then often these people are just there by themselves, 210 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:18,680 setting them, setting them all up and nearly, you know, usually 211 00:11:18,680 --> 00:11:21,040 it's two people, but then sometimes just one. 212 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:24,800 And the, yeah, I just, I just never, I, I always presume that, 213 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:27,520 you know, any sort of news coverage I see, especially from, 214 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:30,880 you know, a bit of a big company like Sky is going to have a lot 215 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:33,240 of people doing it. But it's just funny to me that 216 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:35,800 you were just one guy covering the whole of Ireland at one 217 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:39,000 point. I know and it has really, really 218 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:40,840 changed. You know, when I joined Sky, 219 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:44,240 that'll be 25 years in February. That's why I'm saying I'm really 220 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:46,600 old now and doing this for far too long. 221 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:50,200 But when I joined Sky on big stories in Ireland, we could 222 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:53,240 have had a team maybe of five or six people, you know, you'd have 223 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:57,000 had the correspondent, the cameraman, the sound man, 224 00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:00,360 possibly a light man, a producer, and they were all men 225 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:02,360 in those days as well. It has changed, thankfully. 226 00:12:03,560 --> 00:12:06,600 See that five people out doing the one story and then an editor 227 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:08,440 back at base. Who's going to edit the pictures 228 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:11,280 these days? It's like me and one other 229 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:15,120 person and that one other person does everything. 230 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:17,240 I mean, people joke about it all the time and they say you're 231 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:18,520 only as good as your camera crew. 232 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,640 That really is the case because the camera crew is gathering the 233 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:24,760 pictures, editing the pictures, you know, making sure the 234 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:27,720 colours right, the signs right. They do all the hard work. 235 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:29,600 I just did blather in front of the TV. 236 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:32,200 But like what you do? Oh, I can blather. 237 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:33,720 I can definitely blather. OK. 238 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:35,880 But yeah, I mean, I know what you mean. 239 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:39,240 Like when I put out a sketch, you know, if people say like, 240 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:42,080 oh, that look great, that's because of someone else. 241 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:44,600 Like I'm literally just I'm delivering it, but it's somebody 242 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:48,480 else who is far superior skilled to me in terms of the camera and 243 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:50,000 the editing and all that kind of thing. 244 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:52,680 I studied journalism at Belfast Met. 245 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:58,200 So I had done a filmmaking course and I knew kind of a 246 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:01,160 probably wanted to do stand up full time at some point, but I 247 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:03,120 wasn't good enough then to do it. 248 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:06,600 I wasn't ready to do it. So I thought I could study 249 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:10,600 journalism because there was there was some stuff that 250 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:13,000 overlapped the what I was interested in, in terms of 251 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:17,240 presentation as well, you know, and I just thought, yeah, I 252 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:20,400 would have an interest in this. And I studied it for about a 253 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:27,160 year and a half and it just, it just wasn't me because I I 254 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:28,920 enjoyed, like the sports side of it. 255 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:30,440 I enjoyed. And I was thinking maybe, maybe 256 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:31,880 I'll do some sort of sports reporting. 257 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:36,680 But you know how I imagine it's such a skill to, you know, to 258 00:13:36,680 --> 00:13:39,200 stay impartial to to not react to. 259 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:43,680 I mean, if I say you're say you're covering a story and, and 260 00:13:43,680 --> 00:13:47,200 something big happens during it live as you report, you know, 261 00:13:47,560 --> 00:13:49,720 Someone Like You is just very good at just, you know, 262 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:52,360 continuing to be professional and call it like it is. 263 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:57,400 I'm a reactor like I react. I'm very, I'm very animated and, 264 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:00,520 and I just think like, you know, I think I would try and sneak 265 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:04,440 jokes in the news report. Then it just, it just would not 266 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:07,080 have been fair to let me do to let me do that. 267 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:10,320 But I have I have so much respect for for journalists 268 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:15,040 because, you know, I said on the we do Patreon podcast for this, 269 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:18,600 where I was talking about having you on and I was saying that 270 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:22,680 journalism is something I respect so much because I mean, 271 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:25,920 you covered the Omar bomb. That was a story that you were, 272 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:28,320 you were there for and, and right with that. 273 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:32,920 And, and we always think of all the emergency services and you 274 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:36,680 know, as being a job that it must be very hard to switch off 275 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:38,920 when you get home because of, because of what you've been 276 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:41,040 around and what you've seen. But I don't think people would 277 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:43,480 think of journalism like that a lot of the times as well. 278 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:46,800 But you know, you were there, you were, you were getting first 279 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,200 hand account, you were getting first hand account. 280 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:50,440 You're seeing things with your own eyes. 281 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:54,120 So I'd say in a way it must be a lot of a lot of fun as a job, 282 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:57,960 But there there must be times where it's very, very difficult 283 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:03,480 to, to, to just continue to do your job whenever, whenever 284 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:07,080 things are going on around you that would, I imagine it's hard 285 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:08,880 to speak when you're saying so many things that would leave you 286 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:12,000 speechless. I'm going to give a shameless 287 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:14,160 plug for a book that's coming out. 288 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:16,520 I think it's like maybe just after Christmas? 289 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:18,280 Not sure it'll be out in time for Christmas. 290 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:23,160 From two friends of mine, Leona O'Neill and Chris Lindsay, who 291 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:25,920 are both journalists, have a book coming out called Breaking 292 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:30,520 and a number of journalists have written a chapter for that book 293 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:31,600 each. And I've written one of the 294 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:37,200 chapters and it's about exactly that, the long term impact of 295 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:41,160 being, you know, first hand witness to some of the most 296 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,040 horrific things that happened here in Northern Ireland. 297 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:47,520 And that book I think will be well worth reading when it comes 298 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:49,720 out because it's just exploring all of that. 299 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:53,600 The Oma Bomb definitely was my hardest day in 30 years of 300 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:57,120 journalism. It was my longest continuous 301 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,680 live broadcast. I went on there at 5:00 to 5:00 302 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:02,800 in the afternoon and I didn't come off there until midnight. 303 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:06,880 Literally just the information coming into my earpiece. 304 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:12,360 In those days it was, we had faxes, believe it or not, coming 305 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,040 in from the ambulance service. And I'll just never forget that 306 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:16,800 day. Literally every hour there was 307 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:22,120 another fax with with a never rising casualty list and 308 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:25,920 fatality list. So it was a really tough day and 309 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:29,280 you look back on it and think about it a lot and the people of 310 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:33,600 Omar are in my heart a lot. They're just amazing, resilient 311 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,160 people. But I have to say this, I also 312 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:41,000 feel incredibly privileged. Eamonn Holmes often says it 313 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:44,480 beats working for a living. And I think that's that's right. 314 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:49,120 We've had this immense privilege of witnessing history first 315 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:52,720 time, particularly here in this little corner of the world where 316 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:57,960 we've gone from conflict to fragile peace and to to some 317 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:00,920 kind of form of power sharing government, even though it's a 318 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:03,760 bit stop start. And that's that's amazing. 319 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:06,520 Lots of people go through their career in journalism and never 320 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:08,720 get to cover that kind of a story even once. 321 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:12,480 We've got to cover it on a daily basis for so long. 322 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:17,680 For a while, literally we just kept thinking this is the 323 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:19,480 culmination. This is the biggest story I'm 324 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:22,359 ever going to do. You know, whether it's, you 325 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:23,839 know, the IRA have called a ceasefire. 326 00:17:23,839 --> 00:17:25,599 The IRA have decommissioned their weapons. 327 00:17:25,839 --> 00:17:28,880 Actually there's been a power sharing agreement struck. 328 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:31,120 What's the Queen's coming to visit Dublin? 329 00:17:31,120 --> 00:17:33,280 I don't believe it. Prince Charles is going to shake 330 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:36,000 hands with Jerry Adams and visit mullet more where his great 331 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:39,960 grandfather was was killed by the IRA just every every week it 332 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:43,360 seemed for a while when you felt you'd reached the pinnacle, 333 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:46,440 another big story came along. So that's just been amazing. 334 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:50,640 But you talk about whenever you were studying journalism, 335 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,680 thinking about the crossover between comedy and journalism, I 336 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:56,920 think there's been a fair bit of crossover between comedy and 337 00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:59,480 journalism in the last four or five years. 338 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:02,960 Like, who could ever have imagined that we would have the 339 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:06,320 same period of history? Donald Trump in the White House 340 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:08,840 and Boris Johnson in #10 Downing St. 341 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:11,560 You couldn't make it up. I was, I was going to ask you, 342 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:14,800 whenever you see that Joe Biden's probably going to become 343 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:19,120 president, is, is there is that, is that bittersweet for 344 00:18:19,120 --> 00:18:23,400 journalists? Because what I mean is it, is 345 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,960 there kind of a as a journalist, A disappointment about Trump, 346 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:32,320 politics aside, not continuing as president because the circus 347 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:35,320 isn't there, You know, is it as a journalist, when you look at 348 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:37,360 that, do you think I'm not bringing politics into it? 349 00:18:37,360 --> 00:18:40,280 But do you think, like if you recover in Washington, for 350 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:42,760 example, would you be disappointed that Trump was gone 351 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:46,560 because just because of the the incredible nature of some of the 352 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:47,920 stories that you would have been covering? 353 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:52,200 I'm, I've, I've been lucky enough to work out of Washington 354 00:18:52,360 --> 00:18:55,400 on a number of occasions and I'm really disappointed I've not 355 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:58,400 been able to be there now because of COVID and everything 356 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:00,280 else. We've a reasonably small team 357 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:04,000 covering the election. But funny what you just said is 358 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:08,240 what my son said to me, that he will he will miss waking up 359 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:10,360 every morning and going what next? 360 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:12,920 What has he done now? What has he tweeted in caps 361 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:15,440 today? That that we will miss the 362 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:17,240 circus, as you put it around all of that. 363 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:21,880 But yeah, I think there is, if I'm honest, a sense of relief in 364 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:28,040 most newsrooms because there has been such an attack on the Free 365 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:30,680 Press from the Oval Office over the last four years. 366 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:33,240 Yeah, it wouldn't be fair to say that Donald Trump has been a 367 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:35,920 friend of the press in in recent years. 368 00:19:36,120 --> 00:19:39,040 Has that? Have you working working in 369 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:42,280 Ireland? Have you felt the effects of 370 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:46,200 Donald Trump sort of coining that phrase fake news? 371 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:51,400 Is that something that do you find there is more of a cynicism 372 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:54,400 towards, by the way, I think fantastic use of a word there. 373 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:55,960 I really impress myself with that. 374 00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:00,920 But do you think, do you think there's a there's a cynicism 375 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:05,720 towards or scepticism towards news here because of because of 376 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:07,520 that? Do you think that's filtered 377 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:09,840 through the world almost or you think that's just an America? 378 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:13,480 Oh no, it's not just an America. It's absolutely a global thing. 379 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:19,320 It's maybe being fueled, hastened about by Donald Trump 380 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,400 winning the White House, but it's been around for for quite a 381 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:25,720 while and it's all driven by social media more than anything 382 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:27,800 else. It makes everybody a journalist. 383 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:31,320 The world's full of citizen journalists and people tweet 384 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:35,360 stuff or post stuff on Facebook or wherever they post it that 385 00:20:35,360 --> 00:20:38,080 doesn't have to be verified in any shape or form. 386 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:43,120 And it just amazes me that people don't realise that they 387 00:20:43,120 --> 00:20:46,520 need to Fact Check it in some way that it hasn't been 388 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:49,600 verified. People talk about mainstream 389 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:51,360 media. In my view, there is no other. 390 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:53,840 I hate that term because there's no other term. 391 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:57,080 There's no other version of the media that is credible in my 392 00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:59,000 opinion. Anybody else can just say what 393 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:02,560 whatever they like. And it amazes me that people 394 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:06,720 don't understand stuff like algorithms, that their news feed 395 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:10,480 is just being filled with stuff that they have, they normally 396 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:13,920 click on, so stuff that they're likely to click on again. 397 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:17,720 And the view they already have is being reinforced time and 398 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:19,760 time again. And they're not being encouraged 399 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:22,840 to think actually is this is this, right? 400 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:25,760 But a really good example of it last weekend where the 401 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:29,400 photographs of Joe Biden with Jerry Adams started circulating. 402 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:33,160 And everyone was saying, oh, you see, to Joe Biden is a friend of 403 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:37,080 Irish Republicans. He's a friend of the what we 404 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:39,760 often used to describe as the political wing of the IRA. 405 00:21:40,120 --> 00:21:43,640 But hang on. I've been around the block a few 406 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:45,160 times. I know there's a photograph of 407 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,120 Donald Trump with Jerry Adams. And if you really, really want 408 00:21:48,120 --> 00:21:51,240 to drill down into that, there's also a photograph of Prince 409 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:53,480 Charles with Gerry Adams and there's a photograph of the 410 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,840 Queen with Martin McGuinness. Anybody can play the the dodgy 411 00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:00,520 photograph game if they want to. People just need to step back, 412 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,240 especially on Twitter, especially on social media. 413 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:06,760 They need to step back and ask one question, what is the 414 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:09,040 context? Because you very rarely find it 415 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:10,960 on social media. So it has been tough. 416 00:22:11,120 --> 00:22:15,120 I think it has been tough. Journalists see it's quite a 417 00:22:15,120 --> 00:22:17,120 challenge. Sometimes it's of our own making 418 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,000 because we're not perfect and we make mistakes. 419 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:23,040 But anybody who thinks she and that there are journalists 420 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:26,720 sitting around newsrooms reading comics, thinking about what 421 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:30,200 story can I make up next, has never worked in the television 422 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,520 newsroom or in any newsroom for that matter. 423 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:36,200 Simply, they don't have time to think about making up stories. 424 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:38,600 We don't have that level of resources these days. 425 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:40,520 You're too busy just trying to do the job. 426 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:44,880 And I will say this honestly, never once in 30 years in this 427 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:51,280 business has anyone in any proprietor of a newspaper or of 428 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:54,800 a television station or any producer or director or news 429 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:58,840 editor put pressure on me to report a story in a particular 430 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:00,760 way. That is the honest truth. 431 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:04,800 I simply report what I say. Well, I mean that. 432 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:08,000 I mean, the whole, the whole idea of, you know, just 433 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:12,360 dismissing things as fake news, like I'm not on board with that 434 00:23:12,360 --> 00:23:14,840 at all because, you know, I know journalists as well. 435 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:19,080 I know some journalists really well and, and their integrity 436 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,640 wouldn't be in question to me. But but you're saying that 437 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:25,720 about, you know, no one would ever put pressure on you to to 438 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,600 report a story in a certain way or or, you know, don't mention 439 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,960 this or whatever that. That surprises me slightly 440 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:38,560 because I think, you know, I think any news company like the 441 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:43,600 big newspapers, broadcasters, BBC, I mean, without knowing 442 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:44,840 anything really about journalism. 443 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:46,480 And that's me why it didn't pass the course. 444 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:51,000 I would always think that they're in my mind there. 445 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:55,240 There's, you know, a guy smoking a cigar in a big suit and he's 446 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:57,200 very, very fat in all these places. 447 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,760 And he and he basically like he'll come up to your desk and 448 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:02,480 he'll just the set of the corner of his mouth. 449 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:05,960 He'll just say, like, make this disappear, you know, so I so 450 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:10,000 it's obviously not what I think. And I think, you know, news has 451 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,080 probably evolved so much as well, the reporting of news and 452 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:15,160 the, you know, ownership as well. 453 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:20,640 But, but I mean, it is easy to to buy into or it is easy to see 454 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:24,240 so much of, you know, people question in the news. 455 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:26,880 And like you say, everybody is a journalist now. 456 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,520 Like I've seen some of the worst photos in the run up to this 457 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:31,080 election. I've seen some of the worst 458 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:35,480 Photoshop things in my life, such as this picture I saw 459 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,200 recently. And and this person is linked 460 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,120 far too closely to me for this to really be that funny to me. 461 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:45,000 But it was a picture of George Clooney and Barack Obama on a 462 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:48,280 speedboat. And in it they had there was a 463 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:54,880 photo clearly photoshopped, I will say Asian girl in it just 464 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:56,640 it just on the boat in the picture. 465 00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,720 And there was nothing else, no context that was just put up. 466 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,280 And the heading was something like sickos. 467 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:07,520 Now that to me, I'm looking at that going, how could you not 468 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,800 just take a breath before posting that and see how bad 469 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,200 that Photoshop is? Like you said, Jerry Adams with 470 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,920 a lot of people there. There were these set of photos I 471 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:19,320 saw during the rounds recently of all like the Clintons and all 472 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,480 these people with Osama bin Laden. 473 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,600 And it was quite clearly not Osama bin Laden. 474 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:28,960 Like it was Osama bin Laden's head, but the body was like it 475 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,880 just wasn't matching up. You know, it was, it was gear 476 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:35,000 that Osama bin Laden would not have worn, you know, like in one 477 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,320 like he was wearing a suit. And I was like bin Laden was far 478 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:43,760 more of just that like a beige kind of, you know, one piece 479 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:45,560 guy. You know, he wasn't wearing like 480 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:47,800 shirt and tie. I don't think he liked to keep a 481 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:51,160 beige and white. It's a question, I suppose, of 482 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:55,240 how much do you really want to open your heart and mind to 483 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:57,880 consider a viewpoint that is different than the one you 484 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,040 already have. You know, I've seen it a few 485 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:04,680 times where friends, even family, as you say, people who 486 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,800 are far too close to you maybe have tweeted you stuff our post 487 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:10,920 as what's up, you stuff that you, you know, was blatantly 488 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:12,600 wrong. And you go through the process 489 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,440 of explaining why this is wrong or maybe pulling up the evidence 490 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:18,520 that this brings. And then you discover that half 491 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,000 an hour later they've passed it on to somebody else. 492 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:25,160 So they haven't really wanted to discover that it's wrong. 493 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,720 It's kind of this battle. Do do we want to do we want to 494 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:31,040 learn or do we just want to be right all the time? 495 00:26:31,360 --> 00:26:33,840 Are we really willing open our minds to consider another 496 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:35,760 alternative? That that's what it's all about 497 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,440 for me. I want to ask you about another 498 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,440 story that I think correct me if I'm wrong, you covered in a lot 499 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:43,520 of detail which which was Holy Cross. 500 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:48,080 And maybe for anyone who doesn't know, could you like summarise 501 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,600 that story in case I get it wrong? 502 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:55,000 That there was a really tense couple of summers, well more 503 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,040 than a couple of tense summers up in north Belfast in our doing 504 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:05,320 around the marching season and at 1 stage that rolled over into 505 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,520 the beginning of the school term in September. 506 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,120 And because loyalists were frustrated that there had been 507 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,600 difficulties around the Orange March, they decided to protest 508 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:20,040 against parents who were walking their children to Holy Cross 509 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:24,600 Girls Catholic Primary School and past the houses where those 510 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,520 loyalists were living. So it was kind of a, if you're 511 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:29,840 not going to let us March, we're not going to let you walk your 512 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:31,200 children to school up the street. 513 00:27:31,360 --> 00:27:34,680 And it became really better and really intense for a period of 514 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,520 time. And for 10 days solid of that 515 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:41,080 protest rage, there were literally the children had to 516 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,960 walk through what I called tunnel of terror where you have 517 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:49,000 these, you know, I don't think with the PSMI in those days, it 518 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:54,120 was maybe the RUC still the, the old, umm, uh, Shields in place 519 00:27:54,120 --> 00:27:56,880 around these children to protect them as they walked up up to 520 00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,160 school. Umm, and actually you talked a 521 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,000 moment ago about crazy things happening while you were on 522 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:03,960 there and you weren't quite sure how you'd react to it. 523 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:08,520 It was during the Holy Cross crisis that a blast bomb 524 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:11,440 exploded 1 morning was thrown into the middle of the 525 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:13,800 procession of these parents and their children up to school 526 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:18,160 while I was talking live on air. So while I was literally live on 527 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:22,360 camera, a blast bomb exploded about 100 yards behind me. 528 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:26,560 And I'd no idea what it was, but you just developed, you just 529 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:30,240 developed this ability to keep talking and not worry about it. 530 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,480 In those days, I used to talk about how we had fantastic 531 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:35,320 camera crews. They never ran away from the 532 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:36,880 trouble. They ran towards the trouble. 533 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:39,120 All I had to do was keep talking. 534 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,320 And that's where I I'll always say that was the easy. 535 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:44,480 Bit but you say it's the easy bit, but it can't be because you 536 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:46,960 have to keep talking. But then you have to in that 537 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:49,640 moment, you know, remain impartial. 538 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,440 And I'm sure there's times covering stories where you want 539 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,600 to say what we're all thinking or you feel that inside, but you 540 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:57,600 know that you've, you know, you've got to you've got to wear 541 00:28:57,600 --> 00:28:59,080 your journalist hat for it, if you like. 542 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,800 And I just that story in particular must have been a 543 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,040 tough one because like you're, you're a parent. 544 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:12,480 I think so that that must have I must have been kid myself 545 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,480 whenever that story was it. Would that have been the late 546 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:20,360 90s? It was 2001. 2000 so I would 547 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:26,080 have been 13 and I remember being very affected by that 548 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,480 story. And I it's it's very hard to 549 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:30,640 know why, you know, though I don't know what the rhyme or 550 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:35,480 reason for it was, but I just remember the feeling so 551 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:41,200 powerless or somebody. I just felt so bad for those 552 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,120 kids that were, I mean, I was probably school age. 553 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:48,080 So I probably looked at how easy it was for me going to school. 554 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,960 I went to school with with no problems. 555 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:54,480 I went to I went up where they went to primary school with the 556 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:58,520 strand time primary school and I remember thinking school are 557 00:29:58,520 --> 00:29:59,760 some of the best days of your life. 558 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:02,800 And, and that story in particular I remember really, 559 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:06,200 really upset me and, and, and looking back on it now, 560 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,320 especially now being a father myself, I just imagine I would 561 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,160 have been a very, very tough undercover. 562 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:13,920 Yeah. And I think the other thing that 563 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:17,760 holy, the reason I remember the year so well, by the way, we did 564 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:21,560 Holy Cross live morning at night, our morning and 565 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,640 afternoon, kids going to school and kids coming home for 10 days 566 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,840 straight, like an hour of live broadcasting for 10 days 567 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,400 straight. And then it suddenly disappeared 568 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:32,520 off the television. It wasn't there the following 569 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:34,560 morning. And the reason was because of 570 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:40,280 9/11, 911 happened in the same week and it obviously there was 571 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:44,000 only one story in the world, the Twin Towers in New York. 572 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:45,960 That's how I remember that year so well. 573 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,000 But actually that taught us something as well. 574 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:55,000 Within I think it was like 2 weeks of the media all decamping 575 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:57,840 from our doing and pulling out there. 576 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:02,280 There was an agreement negotiated between the families 577 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:04,800 and the loyalists who'd done all the protesting. 578 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:09,880 And it made me consider for a long time how important it is 579 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:12,560 for the media to be careful that we don't become part of the 580 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,960 problem. We're there to you. 581 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:19,000 You talk also about, you know, being impartial. 582 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,480 Some people think that's just about balance, that, you know, 583 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:26,080 if you, it's about just trying to pursue whatever the truth is 584 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:30,640 and not becoming the story. And I think that's another 585 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:34,240 danger with social media. And I'm guilty of a journalist 586 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,920 can become the story. Because if someone dares to 587 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:40,800 challenge me on social media, I find it really hard not to fight 588 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:42,600 back, even though I'm not really supposed to. 589 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:44,920 And you've probably seen me engage in those debates that I'm 590 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:47,160 not supposed to engage in. Yeah, I mean, I'm, look, I'm 591 00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:52,520 under far less scrutiny, but I I have, I do the same all the 592 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:54,760 time. I put a video out, you see a 593 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:57,760 comment which you know where someone wants this sort of have 594 00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:00,960 a bit of a Ding Dong and every part of me is saying like just 595 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,600 leave it. You know, you never know what 596 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,640 this person is going through or the reason for them rightness, 597 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:10,640 But it's it's sometimes it's too easy to just get involved and 598 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,360 and look, you wanna you want to argue your point, You know, you 599 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:16,160 want to put someone in the place if they feel that they have a 600 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,400 right to do that to you. Let me ask you if you've ever, 601 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,920 have you ever like is there, have you ever made any well 602 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,400 known gaffes? Have you ever had the microphone 603 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:30,920 on by mistake, you know, sworn by accident or anything like 604 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:32,840 that? Like have you ever, what stands 605 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:34,160 out for you? Something where you felt like 606 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:35,760 you're like, Oh no, I can't believe that happened. 607 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,640 I'm trying to think I'm not. Sure, that's a good sign. 608 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:44,360 I'm not sure there have been gaffes on air. 609 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,400 There have been gaffes off air, like the moment. 610 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,480 Lots of people will remember two or three years ago when I 611 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:54,280 thought I was being funny. One day when I noticed you. 612 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:59,680 You'll remember this when I noticed that Arlene Foster and 613 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,360 Nicola Sturgeon and somebody else was it. 614 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:08,640 Chasing McGee, my good friend at UTV had all worn the same 615 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:12,600 jacket, exactly the same jacket over a period of about 3 days. 616 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:16,200 And I tweeted about, you know, them sharing a wardrobe. 617 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:21,160 And Nicolas Sturgeon tweeted me back and Oh my, it went, it went 618 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:25,240 absolutely viral. And I was presented for a, for a 619 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,200 few days as some kind of misogynist. 620 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,680 He was, you know, making comments about women, which was 621 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:34,040 not the case really. And I, I will say this, Nicolas 622 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,200 Sturgeon was really decent about that. 623 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,960 She, she direct tweeted me that day to say it's OK. 624 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:42,120 I've not been offended. I realised that it was only a 625 00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:44,040 joke but we'll have some fun with this. 626 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,840 But the, the Scottish first Minister's attempt, our 627 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:50,080 determination to have some fun with it turned into like a week 628 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:52,760 of me in the newspapers and being radio interviews and 629 00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:55,040 everything. But I did learn through the 630 00:33:55,040 --> 00:34:00,840 process, never ever comment on a woman's clothes or her hair or 631 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,760 her makeup or anything that description, even if you think 632 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:07,440 it's funny. Have you, and then let me ask 633 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,760 you, David, if you've, what's the hairiest moment you've had 634 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:15,199 in, in journalism? Like have you ever been warned 635 00:34:15,199 --> 00:34:18,920 off a story? Have you ever been, you know, 636 00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:23,679 walking to your car and and had a had a run in with someone? 637 00:34:23,679 --> 00:34:26,920 Like, has there been anything you can tell us about that sort 638 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:28,679 of made the hair stand up in your neck a little bit? 639 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:32,960 There have been lots of riots, obviously, and you're always 640 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,639 sort of apprehensive in the middle of those situations. 641 00:34:35,639 --> 00:34:40,000 But the thing that stands out probably for me is lots of 642 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,679 people already know, Shane, that I'm from Portadown. 643 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,840 You know, I know you're from Hollywood, of course, and I know 644 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:49,280 you can claim, you know, Jamie Dornan and Rory McIlroy. 645 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:53,360 But never forget that we have the queen of Olympics, DM Mary 646 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,480 Peters, former head girl of Portadown College, and the Queen 647 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:58,040 of broadcasting, Gloria Honeywood. 648 00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:00,840 So don't ever let anyone tell you nothing good. 649 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:05,400 It never came out of Portadown. But way back in the in the mid 650 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,800 90s, everybody remembers Portadown for one reason. 651 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:14,080 Drum Cree and the whole battle over the parade along Garvahi 652 00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:17,240 Rd. That was the year, that's the 653 00:35:17,240 --> 00:35:20,320 second year of the Drum Cree dispute, which was the year it 654 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,400 really went fire shipped was the year I joined Sky. 655 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:30,040 I had been a freelance at Sky for just a few months when this 656 00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:34,480 story landed in my hometown. That was going to run for like 657 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:38,160 half the summer. And it was a total nightmare 658 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:43,200 because everybody knew me. Everybody knew where I'd grown 659 00:35:43,240 --> 00:35:46,240 up, what schools I'd gone to, and you know what that means in 660 00:35:46,240 --> 00:35:49,160 Northern Ireland. Everybody was listening to every 661 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:51,800 word I said. Sky were honoured around the 662 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,400 clock and at one stage it got really hairy. 663 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,480 That's somewhere because it's the only time in my career I 664 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:01,560 ever remember the police coming to and saying you may want to 665 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:04,240 leave this earlier because we can no longer guarantee your 666 00:36:04,240 --> 00:36:08,040 safety because 30,000 loyalist protesters had gathered drunk 667 00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:10,400 Grey. So that's probably the scariest 668 00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,120 moment because I thought they don't just know who I am, they 669 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:16,560 know where I live and it's not very far away from here. 670 00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:21,000 But but, but at the end of the day, I and probably probably the 671 00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,680 only person from Portadown that ever benefited from the drum 672 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:28,880 crease standoff because having reported it solidly for like 2 673 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:34,440 weeks, the then head of news Sky lifted the phone and I was 674 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:36,400 freelancing. I wasn't in a staff job and he 675 00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:41,440 said do you want a job? So the Orange orders standoff 676 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,720 and drum Cree resulted probably in me doing the job I've been 677 00:36:44,720 --> 00:36:47,800 doing for the last 25 years. David, I'm reading between the 678 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,160 lines here and I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I think 679 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:52,680 you might have stirred the pot to make Drum Cree happen just so 680 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:53,920 you could get those orders in Sky. 681 00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:58,040 You've you've got the connections to port it down. 682 00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:00,000 I think you're like laugh if you'll kick off here. 683 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,400 I'm getting the job. Well, it was funny. 684 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:04,880 All of the other broadcasters and journalists used to 685 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:08,480 congregate there every summer, as, you know, set up camp and 686 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:11,080 they'd always be looking for exit strategies. 687 00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,880 Where do we go if the if the protest comes this way? 688 00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:15,800 Where do we go if the police come in that way? 689 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:19,000 And they'll, the answer was always the same as Blevins, you 690 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,600 know, he knows the back streets, he knows the alleyways, he knows 691 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,160 the ways out of this mess. So they always came looking for 692 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,680 me drunk. Drunk in my Mary a lot. 693 00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:30,320 Because it's also probably my funniest moment on air. 694 00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:37,520 I was live on air from Drum Kree one lunchtime, talking to the 695 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:40,840 lovely Anna Bothing, one of our best presenters on Sky. 696 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:45,840 And that was the moment, just as I went live, that the Army 697 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:50,120 decided to rehearse how quickly they could reinforce the 698 00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:53,840 frontline. A Drum Kree and I'm, if you 699 00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:58,720 know, drum Creed, the geography is a bit weird because we're up, 700 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,920 up a hill and then there's a depth and then the church is on 701 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,840 the other side of the hill. So and I'm not very tall. 702 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:10,280 So to get to get the right perspective, people might have 703 00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:12,880 to stand on a little box so you won't see the church behind you. 704 00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:17,120 So I'm standing on this little box when suddenly these two 705 00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:21,840 Chinook helicopters fly in right over the top of my head and I 706 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:26,400 was literally blown off the box. So in those test, you have these 707 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:30,320 two boxes on screen, Amazon, one of them, I'm talking in the 708 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:35,600 other one and suddenly I just disappear, you know, exit left 709 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:39,680 to stage off this box and I'm left talking to herself where 710 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:42,280 the correspondent isn't there. And it was that drunk crazy. 711 00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:45,240 So good memories and bad memories there. 712 00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,600 I mean, what is the amongst like, you know, your, your 713 00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:50,920 friends, it's guy and other reporters. 714 00:38:52,240 --> 00:38:56,640 What is the, what is the attitude to reporting in 715 00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:58,640 Northern Ireland? What's it, what's the attitude 716 00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:01,920 to Northern Ireland in general? Is it a place that, you know, 717 00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:04,720 journalists, especially young journalists, would be very keen 718 00:39:04,720 --> 00:39:07,560 to, maybe not as much anymore, but would they have been very 719 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:10,240 keen to come over here because they knew the sort of things 720 00:39:10,240 --> 00:39:12,640 that were going to cover or were they all trying to steer clear? 721 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:17,080 I think most of them were keen that have been a few thought I'm 722 00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:20,400 not going anywhere yet most of them were. 723 00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:23,520 King and the BBC particularly used to use Northern Ireland as 724 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:25,440 a training ground for all of their correspondents. 725 00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:28,680 You used to hear many English accents, even on News Line, 726 00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,640 because that's where they were sent to see if they could really 727 00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:35,440 hack the pace. But yeah, a lot of them would 728 00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:37,960 have come over here and we got to know all of the 729 00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:41,200 correspondents because they had their tours of duty in Northern 730 00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:44,040 Ireland. But their visits to Northern 731 00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:48,680 Ireland is also where the phrase Blevins law came from. 732 00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,920 There's a there's a special former special adviser called 733 00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:55,040 Peter Cardwell, who's just recently, Peter's just recently 734 00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:57,760 published a book. Yep, on the command to talk 735 00:39:57,800 --> 00:39:58,920 about it. Oh, it'll be. 736 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:02,640 It'll be great at that. And in that book you'll find 737 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:07,120 this term Blevins law. He coined that term and it is 738 00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:11,640 roughly defined as. Never underestimate how little 739 00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:14,400 people from England understand the island of Ireland. 740 00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:19,400 That is Blevins law and it's because of some fantastic world 741 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:23,080 famous correspondents flying in here but live on there saying 742 00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:28,800 things like Belfast's two shipyards, Harland and Wolf are. 743 00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,880 In our case, we had a really high flying television news 744 00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:36,800 correspondent at Sky came in to help us once who described Jerry 745 00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:40,720 Evans and Martin McGuinness as, and I wait for it, the big guns 746 00:40:40,720 --> 00:40:46,960 of Sinn Fein. It's like hashtag awkward when 747 00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:48,880 you're live on air. You can't undo it. 748 00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:53,960 There's no recovery from that. So that's having colleagues 749 00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:58,080 coming in from England is always good, but it can be entertaining 750 00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:01,160 as well. That's great. 751 00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:04,600 I'd say a few people spat their tea out when they heard. 752 00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:09,000 That. David, I want to know sort of go 753 00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:12,280 back to the start and let me ask you, you've grown up and put it 754 00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:15,200 down and how did you, how did you get in the news? 755 00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:23,800 I used I can't count. English was always my thing. 756 00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:29,040 So I always thought I would be an English teacher actually. 757 00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:32,400 And then I decided I wouldn't take the crap that I gave most 758 00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:35,880 of my teachers because I was in particularly when I was in 759 00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,520 Portland College, I was totally the class clown. 760 00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:42,800 My my friends who went to that school with me at that time, 761 00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:46,320 when I meet them or they message me on social media or whatever 762 00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:48,920 will always say, you know, in the middle of the class, I would 763 00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:51,280 just start commentating on something teacher was doing. 764 00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:54,440 Or I would do a continuity announcement or, you know, bring 765 00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:57,000 them the sports results or the weather forecast, whatever it 766 00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:58,600 was, they just messed around in school. 767 00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:03,720 And I've identical twin brother. You may or may not know that. 768 00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:07,640 I do not know that. Yeah, I have an identical twin 769 00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:09,600 brother. You'll find him on Twitter as 770 00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:11,600 well. He's he's allowed to say more 771 00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:16,560 than I'm allowed to say. And he and I just messed around 772 00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:21,040 seriously in school because he was better at me than me at Mars 773 00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:22,680 and I was better than him at English. 774 00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:27,320 So on the rare occasion where his English class coincided with 775 00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:29,160 my maths class, we used to swap classes. 776 00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:32,600 We did it for a period of time until until we got caught 777 00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:35,680 because the teacher realised he didn't talk enough. 778 00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:39,840 But also I twig that he was only sending me to his English last 779 00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:41,320 on the days that he hadn't done his homework. 780 00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:47,000 And I was taking grief for it. But he, I thought, would end up 781 00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:51,600 being a sports journalist and I would be a teacher. 782 00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:55,800 And ironically he ended up a teacher and then a principal and 783 00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:59,200 now an inspector of schools and I ended up in journalism. 784 00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:01,200 So that's kind of how it came about. 785 00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:04,560 And you know, when I look back on some of my teachers, people 786 00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:06,440 say your teachers know more about you than you know about 787 00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:09,680 yourself. And that's true in in Portadown. 788 00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:11,720 It's the Dixon plan. So you leave primary school, you 789 00:43:11,720 --> 00:43:14,200 go to junior high for three years and then you, you decide 790 00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:16,440 whether you're going to Senior High or or grammar school. 791 00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:20,120 In junior high school in Portadown, one of my teachers in 792 00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:25,320 first year cast me in the role. This is for the Christmas 793 00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:29,240 nativity that cast me in the role of the reporter breaking 794 00:43:29,240 --> 00:43:31,680 news from Bethlehem. When I look back on that, I 795 00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:34,720 think that's kind of weird, you know, that I was the reporter in 796 00:43:34,720 --> 00:43:38,400 the schemativity and then I was actually breaking news for, you 797 00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:40,000 know, millions of people all over the world. 798 00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:42,360 Well, the fact that, I mean, the fact that, you know, your 799 00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:44,040 brother thought, you know, you thought your brother was going 800 00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:45,400 to be a journalist, you were going to be a teacher. 801 00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:48,120 Are you sure that you didn't just switch and then just forget 802 00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:50,560 who's who? Is there a chance that you are 803 00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:56,480 your brother? No, we do look a bit different. 804 00:43:57,240 --> 00:43:58,760 We do look a bit different these days. 805 00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:01,440 He's got a wee beard and all the rest, so people now can't tell 806 00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:03,920 the difference. But he's always been far more 807 00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:07,640 into sport than I am. So, you know, there are there 808 00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:10,920 are ways to tell us apart. And my mother, even though she's 809 00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:13,720 in the early, at least now I can most definitely still tell us 810 00:44:13,720 --> 00:44:18,040 apart. Let me ask you then, what, 811 00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,920 what's, what's, what has been your proudest moment of, of your 812 00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:25,640 career of whether it was sky or outside the sky, But what, what, 813 00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:28,480 what was the one moment because you talked about iconic stories 814 00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:30,440 that you reported on that you were there for, but what's been 815 00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:32,960 the one that stands out to you? Or maybe it wasn't on that list. 816 00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:36,160 Has there been one that just top tops everything else for you? 817 00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:43,440 I see I said this earlier that I feel so privileged to have done 818 00:44:43,720 --> 00:44:47,040 and what I've been doing. We've had an incredible story 819 00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:49,680 here in Northern Ireland and, and I know it's all a bit 820 00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:53,240 bonkers and the, you know, the car sharing thing is a battle a 821 00:44:53,240 --> 00:44:57,080 day and we find lots of reasons to criticise and complain about 822 00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:00,840 our politicians. But I remember when it was very, 823 00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:04,800 very different here. I'm, I'm really, I'm really glad 824 00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:07,240 that I've had the opportunity for my children to grow up in a 825 00:45:07,240 --> 00:45:10,360 completely different Northern Ireland to the one I grew up in. 826 00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:16,320 And I think there have just been several moments along the way 827 00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:19,000 that will forever be in my memory. 828 00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:22,360 I was reading the news on downtown radio. 829 00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:25,480 I don't even think Cool FM had come along yet. 830 00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:27,680 It came along during my time at downtown. 831 00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:31,720 But I was reading the news there on the day of the IRA ceasefire. 832 00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:35,600 And I still have the typewritten script at home. 833 00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:38,360 Breaking news. In the last few minutes, the IRA 834 00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:41,640 has declared a complete and unequivocal ceasefire. 835 00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:47,040 Like, Can you imagine what those few words meant for a young 836 00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:50,720 journalist who had grown up in the part of Northern Ireland 837 00:45:50,720 --> 00:45:52,760 that we refer to as the murder triangle? 838 00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:56,480 I knew instantly this, the significance of those words. 839 00:45:58,240 --> 00:46:01,600 And so you don't forget that moment, You don't forget the 840 00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:04,360 Good Friday Agreement. You don't forget the horror of 841 00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:08,160 the the OMA bombing. Journalism has taken me all over 842 00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:10,200 the world. I've reported for Sky in 10 843 00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:12,320 different countries on four different continents. 844 00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:15,440 I've interviewed presidents and prime ministers in. 845 00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:19,000 I've interviewed 2 American presidents and three Irish 846 00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:23,600 presidents and, and, and people often say to me who left, who 847 00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:26,440 left the biggest impression. And I know this sounds like a 848 00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:28,440 cliche, but it is the honest trace. 849 00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:33,040 None of them, none of the the presidents and prime ministers 850 00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:36,280 left the lasting impression. It is just the ordinary people 851 00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:38,760 that you meet in the street. And you'll know this as well 852 00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:40,720 from being out in the street chatting to people. 853 00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:43,520 You know, it's the woman doing her shopping at U Box Pop and 854 00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:46,600 she just comes out with some classic line that goes viral 855 00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:48,480 that day. I love those people. 856 00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:53,280 I love real people who are just going about their daily lives. 857 00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:56,840 They have a far better story to tell than somebody who's locked, 858 00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:59,000 you know, in a corridor apart somewhere. 859 00:46:59,720 --> 00:47:03,080 And do you have aspirations outside of of journalism where 860 00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:06,520 you know, you're talking about Peter there who I know who's 861 00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:09,280 who's released a book and journalism friends of yours? 862 00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:13,200 I've released a book. I mean, I think what you've seen 863 00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:18,400 and covered in the last 25 years here would definitely be worthy 864 00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:20,000 of a book. But is that kind of a route you 865 00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:22,120 want to go down or is there is there any is there like a 866 00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:24,760 curveball you like? Listen, I'm bringing Kenyan 867 00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:28,480 coffee to Northern Ireland. I mean, I think Ken go already 868 00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:30,520 doing it, but you know, you could do better. 869 00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:38,720 I'm not sure. I think I would just love to 870 00:47:38,720 --> 00:47:42,320 retire early. Sometimes I think that I have. 871 00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:47,160 I've seen just about everything there is to see in Northern 872 00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:48,600 Ireland. Nothing would surprise me 873 00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:53,640 anymore and I think I would love to retire early and go and chill 874 00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:56,280 out on the North Coast or somewhere are going by a house 875 00:47:56,280 --> 00:48:00,080 in the mornings are going. Just relax a bit and keep 876 00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:02,800 travelling the world. I absolutely love travelling and 877 00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:05,280 one of the things that I've got to do in the last few years is 878 00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:09,120 to talk to journalism students at universities across America 879 00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:11,920 because they're absolutely obsessed with the Northern. 880 00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:12,720 Ireland. Process. 881 00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:15,720 They want to know about the role the media played in the peace 882 00:48:15,720 --> 00:48:17,800 process. And I think I've talked in like 883 00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:20,960 something like 20 different colleges and 15 different states 884 00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:23,800 now over the last three or four years, which is an amazing 885 00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:26,440 thing. And I might do a little bit more 886 00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:29,480 of that, although I always come home and Ruth, that's my wife, 887 00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:31,320 she'll always say, how did you get on? 888 00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:34,600 And I folks got the same answer. It was brilliant because 889 00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:37,000 literally you could stand up at the front of the class and 890 00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:39,520 recite Humpty Dumpty sat on the wall and they'll give you a 891 00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:41,640 standing ovation. But if you talk with this weird 892 00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:43,560 accent, that's that's enough for them. 893 00:48:43,720 --> 00:48:46,320 How do you think I feel in the comedy clubs it's the same 894 00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:48,280 thing. I love it. 895 00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:50,440 I love that. So maybe a bit, maybe a bit of 896 00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:54,040 that, maybe a bit of that. I've no aspiration really to 897 00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:56,080 write a book. I'm too lazy to do that. 898 00:48:56,480 --> 00:49:03,440 Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's, it must be a great 899 00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:06,320 job. It must be a great job to to 900 00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:10,320 present for, you know, Sky News who who are huge, such a big 901 00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:12,680 player as well. Because, you know, I'm sure 902 00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:15,480 there's great journalists who just don't get an opportunity 903 00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:19,600 to, to, to, to get so much coverage and, and to be, to have 904 00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:22,880 such a, such a, such a good job within, within journalism. 905 00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:28,360 And let, let me ask you this question of obviously no. 906 00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:31,440 And I and I, I have witnessed it as well known, aren't changed so 907 00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:33,960 much. And the years you've been, 908 00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:37,480 you've been covering here, what, what do you think Northern 909 00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:40,880 Ireland is going to be like in 10 years, for example? 910 00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:43,000 And you know more, you know more than most people. 911 00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:48,720 So the way politics is going, the way with Brexit, how do you 912 00:49:48,720 --> 00:49:51,400 see Northern Ireland changing in the next 5? 913 00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:53,640 I know it's a very, very difficult question, but in the 914 00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:57,000 next 5 or 10 years, is there anything you can you can 915 00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:01,360 foresee? I'll be really careful how I 916 00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:03,560 answer this because I don't want to give you a political answer, 917 00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:07,240 but the head of home used Sky puts it really well. 918 00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:10,200 Peter always says never take your eyes off Northern Ireland. 919 00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:13,200 The moment you think the story is over there, something will 920 00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:15,360 come along. You know, we thought the story 921 00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:20,400 was over with the the peace process and then the dissidents 922 00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:22,480 came along and you had things like Omar. 923 00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:26,600 We thought this story was over after Omar and they got the 924 00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:28,880 devolved government up and running properly and 925 00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:31,320 decommissioning and all the rest. 926 00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:34,360 And then the next big story comes along, which is all those 927 00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:37,280 historic milestones when the queen visits and Charles visits 928 00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:41,320 and all of that. I think we really thought it had 929 00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:45,720 come to a successful conclusion and Northern Ireland was going 930 00:50:45,720 --> 00:50:49,600 to become a kind of postage stamp in history and the rest of 931 00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:52,280 the world would move on after 911 and there would be the 932 00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:54,240 national news would really dominate. 933 00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:57,360 And then completely out of the blue, what happens? 934 00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:02,360 Brexit, there's only one story around Brexit that has dominated 935 00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:05,640 the news for the last five years or the last four years, and that 936 00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:07,960 is the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic. 937 00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:12,400 So yet again, this tiny little corner of the world is front 938 00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:15,480 page news all over the world. I mean, the New York Post, you 939 00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:18,920 read stories about the the Northern Irish border, you go to 940 00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:21,280 Brussels, you read stories about the Northern Irish border. 941 00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:24,600 And again, I'm thinking, well, that's going to come to an end. 942 00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:27,240 At some point it's going to they're going to have to decide, 943 00:51:27,240 --> 00:51:28,720 is there a deal? Is there not a deal? 944 00:51:29,240 --> 00:51:32,280 And then we get COVID and there's a whole debate going on 945 00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:35,280 about, well, should we be taking our lead from London? 946 00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:36,960 Should we be taking our lead from Dublin? 947 00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:40,560 And again, the whole sort of question about Northern Ireland 948 00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:45,400 is on the table. I suppose my hope is that 949 00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:47,920 Northern Ireland will become less and less of an 950 00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:53,040 international news story in the sense of hard news, but that it 951 00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:56,440 will realise it's it's potential because this place is absolutely 952 00:51:56,800 --> 00:51:58,960 amazing. I have travelled all over the 953 00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:01,240 world but I love to come home to Northern Ireland. 954 00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:04,080 We've gone from producing ships to producing world class 955 00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:05,920 television drama like Game of Thrones. 956 00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:07,680 You know it's. Previously. 957 00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:13,000 Exactly. It's it's a fantastic tiny 958 00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:15,920 little place that punches way above its weight. 959 00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:20,240 I mean, think about it, George Best, Liam Neeson, what what you 960 00:52:20,240 --> 00:52:22,000 could, the list goes on forever and ever. 961 00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:25,480 And I would just love to see it achieve its real potential with 962 00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:29,040 people flooding into this place to, you know, go to the North 963 00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:31,840 Coast and play golf or whatever, whatever the case is. 964 00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:34,880 David, I've loved chatting to you so much. 965 00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:37,680 Thanks very much for taking the time and sitting down with me. 966 00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:40,680 And I really think you should write a book or I don't know, 967 00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:45,040 maybe you should have a podcast or you just just those stories, 968 00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:48,080 honestly, like. Can I say two things before I 969 00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:49,320 go? Can I say two things? 970 00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:52,920 You talked a moment ago about how many journalists don't get 971 00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:55,440 the chance to do this. I really want to say something 972 00:52:55,440 --> 00:53:00,320 to young journalists who who think, who are often told these 973 00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:03,000 days that you've missed the golden age of journalism. 974 00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:06,000 You know, newspapers are dying, television rolling, news is 975 00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:07,160 dying. It's all about digital, 976 00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:09,600 whatever. I don't believe that because I 977 00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:13,160 think the technology today creates the potential for this 978 00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:15,840 to be the golden age of, of journalism. 979 00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:19,120 If we can take the old principles of journalism and 980 00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:21,600 apply them to the new technology, I really want young 981 00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:24,200 people to realise that this could be the golden age of 982 00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:26,320 journalism. Don't, don't give up on this 983 00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:28,800 business. It's a fantastic career choice. 984 00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:31,960 And the other thing is, I want to say to them is you just never 985 00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:36,120 really, honestly, never know, uh, how good it can be. 986 00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:40,440 Nobody gets to see life behind the scenes and the crack is 987 00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:43,040 mighty behind the scenes. Want to finish with a story 988 00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:46,840 about George Best's funeral on the morning of George Best's 989 00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:50,800 funeral, where the world had its eyes on Belfast to such an 990 00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:53,960 extent that Kay Burley, who's a good friend of mine, was 991 00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:56,880 anchoring the news from Northern Ireland that morning. 992 00:53:57,080 --> 00:53:59,960 And I was what was called the presenter's friend, which is the 993 00:53:59,960 --> 00:54:02,160 correspondent who stands alongside to give you somebody 994 00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:06,080 to talk to. And just we're standing about to 995 00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:11,400 go on air at 6:00 in the morning and at one minute to six, you 996 00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:14,120 know, I hear that producer in London say, you know, one minute 997 00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:16,720 to air or whatever. And we didn't have rain that 998 00:54:16,720 --> 00:54:20,480 morning. We had total monsoon and water 999 00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:23,160 got into one of the fuses in the outside broadcast vehicle and 1000 00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:26,520 suddenly everything died. The cameras, the microphones, 1001 00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:29,360 the lights, caves, all the everything just died. 1002 00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:31,520 And I don't know to this day how he did it. 1003 00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:34,520 But the engineer knew which fuse had blown, jumped out of the 1004 00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:37,440 truck, ran around the back, put the new fuse in, got back into 1005 00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:41,840 his seat and in my ear and make the complete pandemonium on the 1006 00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:42,960 step. People running in all 1007 00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:46,080 directions. In my ear, everything springs to 1008 00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:52,720 life and I hear the producer in London go 3, 21K looked straight 1009 00:54:52,720 --> 00:54:54,800 and into the lens and said a very good morning. 1010 00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:56,720 This is sunrise live from Belfast. 1011 00:54:56,880 --> 00:54:58,720 The consulate professional that she is. 1012 00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:04,440 And if anybody knew the pandemonium on that set 3 1013 00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:07,440 seconds earlier, they they would not have they would not have 1014 00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:10,400 believed it. So there's there's great fun and 1015 00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:15,280 I would say to young people you know, find find whatever excites 1016 00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:19,120 you about journalism, find your views and and keep her lip, as 1017 00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:22,120 we say in County Armagh. Well, David, I, I wish you'd 1018 00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:23,800 been a lecturer on my journalism, of course, because 1019 00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:28,080 maybe I wouldn't have dropped out with three months to go and 1020 00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:29,200 I still have student debt from that. 1021 00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:32,240 But don't worry about it. Yeah, David, thanks so much. 1022 00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:34,280 Really, really appreciate it. My pleasure.