1 00:00:08,420 --> 00:00:11,340 Welcome back to the Youth Ministry Mindset Podcast season 2 00:00:11,340 --> 00:00:14,940 2 with voices from Alpha and Y Disciple Out of Net Ministries. 3 00:00:15,260 --> 00:00:18,780 My name is Jordan but I'm joined by some amazing friends and Co 4 00:00:18,780 --> 00:00:20,460 hosts. I'm Jason Kidd and. 5 00:00:20,620 --> 00:00:24,060 I'm Annie Grandel. And today, we are joined by our 6 00:00:24,060 --> 00:00:27,180 friend Chris Wesley. I'm Annie. 7 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:29,360 Give us like a one sentence summary. 8 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:31,080 What are we talking about? Why are we talking about it? 9 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:32,720 And who is Chris? Great. 10 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:37,000 So this episode we're talking about the role and the power of 11 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:41,280 sponsors in the confirmation process in particularly when 12 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:48,600 we're talking about preparation. I am so excited that Chris is 13 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:52,480 joining us for this content. When I was a parish youth 14 00:00:52,480 --> 00:00:56,560 minister, there was this book, this new book that came out 15 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:01,440 about confirmation, which there have been a lot of books about 16 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:03,840 youth ministry, most of them coming from the Protestant 17 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:06,720 space. And this book came out called 18 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:11,640 Rebuilding Confirmation. And it was like this time bomb 19 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:16,640 in my brain that went off because it poked at some of the 20 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:19,040 things that I didn't realize needed poking. 21 00:01:19,320 --> 00:01:21,840 When I thought about the problem with confirmation, I thought 22 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:24,200 about curriculum. Yeah, I was. 23 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:27,400 I was convinced that it was we just needed to do curriculum 24 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:30,480 better or truer or writer somehow. 25 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:33,880 And so I just kept trying to. Writer a word. 26 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:36,400 It is now. OK, it is because in Annie's 27 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,240 brain when she was 24, she said it and therefore it is. 28 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:42,280 I said a lot of things when I was 24 that I no longer agreed. 29 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:44,040 OK, sorry. Keep going. 30 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:46,480 It was writer. It was not do it writer, Dang 31 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:51,440 it. And this book came out by Chris 32 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:57,160 Wesley and he was he was asking us to re examine why we did so 33 00:01:57,160 --> 00:02:00,000 many of the things that we had quote always done it that way. 34 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:05,800 And I took it to my pastor or my associate pastor, my Dre and 35 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:09,400 said, can we start blowing some stuff up because I think we're 36 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:13,240 wasting our time. And one of the things that 37 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:18,840 caught my attention the most was the conversation around sponsors 38 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:24,120 and mentorship in confirmation. So I could think of no better 39 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:27,240 guest to talk about this particular particular content. 40 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:29,960 Amazing. So let's get him in. 41 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:32,120 Great, Chris. Thanks for joining us. 42 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:34,400 Hey, hey everyone. How's it going? 43 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:40,240 Living our best life, you know. Awesome, awesome fresh coffee. 44 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:42,720 It's. The morning I know. 45 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:46,200 But no, everything is great here in the Baltimore area. 46 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,000 So just excited to have this conversation. 47 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:52,720 As I warned Annie before, this is a, this is a triggering 48 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:54,840 subject for me on many different levels. 49 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:58,720 So you know, I, I, I guess you guys are going to have to rate 50 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:03,080 this not friendly for kids on, on the podcast websites. 51 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:05,080 No, I'm just kidding. I, I hope this is informative 52 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:06,960 and helpful. So I really do. 53 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:08,560 I mean, I'm staking my career on it. 54 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:09,880 So let's go. Let's do this. 55 00:03:09,920 --> 00:03:13,000 If you need to, if you need to find a safe space you know in 56 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:14,960 the middle, take a little time out you can. 57 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:16,160 There you go. Thanks, Jason. 58 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:17,680 I appreciate that. Yeah, I thought you could be 59 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:19,240 like, come to Alpha for the same place. 60 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:20,560 I was like, what are you doing, Jason? 61 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:26,160 Well, and the thing I'm excited about for this conversation, and 62 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:28,800 so one of the things I really respect about you, Chris, is 63 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:33,960 you've not been doing like side work in ministry. 64 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:38,000 You've been working in a parish up until very recently. 65 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,160 So you know what it's like on the ground. 66 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:44,080 This isn't just theory. And I think that gives you so 67 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:45,960 much credibility. So I'm just excited to share 68 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:48,160 that with our audience. I appreciate that. 69 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:49,000 Thank you. Thank you. 70 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:53,680 So we asked this question to everyone to kick it off. 71 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:58,320 Who's your confirmation St. I don't really technically have 72 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:03,720 one I So for me, my I'll, I'll get straight to the answer and 73 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:06,480 then I'll tell the story. So for me, my confirmation name 74 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:10,360 is Ezekiel and so a biblical name. 75 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:16,440 And I picked it for two reasons. One, my mom was really on me 76 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:19,240 about picking a name. And so I just decided to engage 77 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:23,760 in a game of Bible roulette and you know, ironically, the first 78 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:28,320 first name that popped up was God, which she clearly made it 79 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:30,880 clear that I could not choose that as my confirmation name. 80 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:36,040 So we did it again. That's a great mom right there. 81 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:38,200 Yeah, that's a great mom. Great mom there. 82 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:40,680 And then it landed on the name Ezekiel. 83 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:43,560 And I got so excited about Ezekiel because one of my 84 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:46,280 favorite passages, at least I thought it was one of my 85 00:04:46,280 --> 00:04:48,520 favorite passages, comes from Ezekiel, and I want to read it 86 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:50,120 for you all. And it goes. 87 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:53,000 The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the 88 00:04:53,840 --> 00:04:56,720 inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. 89 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:00,480 Blessed is he who in the name of charity and goodwill shepherds 90 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:03,440 the weak through the valley of darkness for his truly his 91 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:05,800 brother's keeper and the Finder of lost children. 92 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:09,520 And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious 93 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:12,600 anger those who attempted to poison and destroy my brothers. 94 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:15,560 And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance 95 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:19,360 upon thee. That's Ezekiel 2517, according 96 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:22,920 to Samuel L Jackson in the movie Pulp Fiction, which at the time, 97 00:05:27,840 --> 00:05:30,720 at the time I didn't know, was not actually in Scripture. 98 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:34,400 But I thought that was pretty, you know, bad ass. 99 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:37,080 And, and so I was like, you know what, I'm going to go with that 100 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:40,400 Ezekiel name. So for a long, long time before 101 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:44,560 I actually read Scripture, I thought Ezekiel was, you know, 102 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:47,320 pretty bad ass. But, you know, here's the thing. 103 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:51,160 Too little did I know that God was playing the joke on me. 104 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:55,000 Because if there's anything that speaks to ministry, it's like 105 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:58,280 speaking to dry bones and trusting in the Holy Spirit to 106 00:05:58,280 --> 00:06:01,320 bring flesh into those bones. So God got the last laugh. 107 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:05,160 But so yeah, my confirmation name is Ezekiel. 108 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:07,880 That is amazing. OK, Can I ask a clarifying 109 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:11,760 question? Did you actually go to your mom 110 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:15,800 and say God? I want my confirmation St. to be 111 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:19,200 God because I really hope that part's true. 112 00:06:19,840 --> 00:06:21,840 Annie, come on, I was a 15 year old boy. 113 00:06:21,840 --> 00:06:27,120 Of course I said that, you know, and I said it with confidence. 114 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:34,160 And you know, even though she's 5 foot 3 and I was probably 5-11 115 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:35,920 at the time, I was still scared of her. 116 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:40,920 And so she reminded me, she will strike down upon thee with great 117 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,640 vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and 118 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:47,800 destroy my brothers. And so you know, she quoted 119 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:51,680 Samuel Jackson back to me. With that so good. 120 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:56,680 Well, tell us, give us a little background of of your experience 121 00:06:56,680 --> 00:07:00,400 in ministry for those that that aren't familiar with you. 122 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:04,000 Yeah, Thanks, Jason. So as Andy mentioned, I just 123 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:06,600 completed about 20 years of parish ministry. 124 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:11,600 For the last 20 years I worked for primarily 2 parishes, Church 125 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:15,640 in the Nativity and Timonium and then Saint Joseph's Parish in 126 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:21,360 Cockeysville, MD and never had my intention of doing full time 127 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:24,480 ministry. Needed a job after my missionary 128 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:28,760 year with the Jesuit Volunteer Corps here in Baltimore and I 129 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:31,840 just knew I needed a job. Long story short, fell in love 130 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:34,520 with ministry. Had really no professional 131 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:37,440 formation or clue so learned a lot on the job. 132 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:42,440 Lots of credit to nativity who invested a whole lot in me going 133 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:45,600 to conferences, reading books, things like that. 134 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:48,760 Lots of support there to really, you know, grow in this 135 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:50,720 profession. Lots of networking and things 136 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:52,640 along those lines. I mean, it grew up Catholic my 137 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:57,520 whole entire life and you know, as as I shared with my 138 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:02,040 confirmation name story, some of it needed to be corrected along 139 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:06,240 the way, which that happened. But started out in middle school 140 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:09,400 ministry for about two years and then pretty much after that 141 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:12,600 started to oversee all of high school and middle school 142 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:14,120 ministry. And my time at Nativity, which 143 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:17,480 included confirmation when I went to Saint Joe's, started out 144 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:20,160 in youth ministry there and then eventually oversaw all 145 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:24,000 catechesis for adults, youth and and children. 146 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:26,880 What was your favorite? What was my favorite middle 147 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:28,680 school ministry? Dude, middle school, thank you. 148 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:31,280 I mean, I love middle schoolers. Yes. 149 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:33,080 I mean, you know, if you can figure out middle school 150 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:35,080 ministry, you can figure out do anything. 151 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:37,320 Yeah. No, it's anything you do, 152 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:38,760 anything. I love that. 153 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:45,760 Alright, so before we jump into this topic of sponsors, what is 154 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:48,480 a sponsor? Because when I think of great 155 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:50,800 sponsorship, I think of Chick-fil-A. 156 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,360 They're great sponsors for anything that I do. 157 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:56,120 So you're. Thinking Platters. 158 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:57,640 So you're thinking corporate sponsors? 159 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:00,800 I'm thinking like, I'm gonna sponsor your event. 160 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,400 And so a sponsor. I know this little common 161 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:07,000 language, probably in the space of confirmation, but for people 162 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:10,320 who are like me, what is a sponsor? 163 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:13,320 Like why and why a sponsor? Yeah, if you're talking about 164 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:15,320 good sponsorship, Chick-fil-A for sure. 165 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:17,800 If you're talking about good chicken, it's found elsewhere. 166 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:22,840 But we'll get back to that end of time sponsorship. 167 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:25,960 Yeah, those are fighting words. So we got to go back to it real 168 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:27,600 fast before we can't go past that. 169 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:30,400 OK. Rate, rate, rate. 170 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:32,160 Chick-fil-A. Top three, top three chicken 171 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:34,800 places, top three, top three. Yeah. 172 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:44,360 Popeyes, Garbage chicken churches and KFC. 173 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:48,640 Oh, I'm just, I'm just. No, I'm just saying that. 174 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:50,800 I'm just saying that to KFC. I'm just. 175 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:54,840 Saying that to my soul. I'm just saying. 176 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:56,360 This will stink. This is a dagger. 177 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:57,840 No, no, not it. OK. 178 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:00,840 I mean, I, I don't know, it all depends what mood I'm in for. 179 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:02,600 But you want to talk about confirmation? 180 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:05,480 I think we'll have a chicken podcast conversation a little 181 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:06,400 bit later on. How about that? 182 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:07,160 Oh good. OK. 183 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:07,760 Yeah. All right. 184 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:09,480 OK. OK. 185 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:11,720 What is the sponsor? And why we do this? 186 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:15,360 Yeah, you know, it, it, it is kind of fine because that is a 187 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:19,040 great question, a question that I feel like everyone asks but no 188 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:23,880 one answers. And so for me, I mean, it, it's 189 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:25,440 kind of funny that it's a question we don't know the 190 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:28,120 answer to when it's clearly laid out in Canon law. 191 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:32,120 Now, I'm not expecting people to bring up Canon law, you know, 192 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:34,600 all the time or read Canon law because it is a pretty hefty 193 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:37,760 book. But it says right in Canon 892, 194 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:40,320 the primary responsibility of a sponsor is to provide the 195 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:43,440 candidate prayerful support and guidance in his or her Christian 196 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:47,440 walk, and to take care of that the confirmed person behaves as 197 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,400 a true witness of Christ and faithfully fulfills the 198 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:53,600 obligations inherent in this sacrament. 199 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:58,840 And again, that's Canon 892. And so basically it's a lifelong 200 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:00,960 commitment. It's someone who's supposed to 201 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:05,360 accompany, walk alongside the young person who is not just 202 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:07,840 going through the Sacramento prep, but even after the 203 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:10,960 preparations done, even after the sacraments received, you 204 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:13,400 know, Jesus sends us out two by two. 205 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:15,600 We're supposed to live life together. 206 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:19,280 And so a sponsor is that person who's not like necessarily your 207 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:23,400 Obi Wan Kenobi or your guru in this regards, but that person 208 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:26,960 who is there to hold you accountable, to pick you up, to 209 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:30,600 lead you, to guide you, to witness what it means to have 210 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:32,800 faith. And I know that might sound like 211 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:36,160 a lot and even that definition might seem a little bit heavy, 212 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:38,400 but it's really not that complicated. 213 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:42,760 And we've either like ignored it completely in the church or 214 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:45,320 we've made it into something that's not supposed to be. 215 00:11:45,680 --> 00:11:48,400 And I think we tend to blame families a lot by saying, oh, 216 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:50,040 you're just picking someone who's honorary. 217 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:52,440 But like, we don't really tackle that well. 218 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:58,960 And while I think it's an issue in confirmation, it's also an 219 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:01,760 issue when we talk about godparents in baptism because 220 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:04,000 it's not too different in that regards. 221 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,520 So, you know, in short, a a sponsor of someone who is 222 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:11,560 committing, you know, through life to walk with this person in 223 00:12:11,560 --> 00:12:14,880 their faith journey. And I mean that's as simple as 224 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:17,840 you can as you can look at it. Is a sponsor or does it have to 225 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:19,400 be older? No, I don't think it has to be 226 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:22,600 someone who's older. I, I love intergenerational 227 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:24,280 relationships. I think those have a place in 228 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:26,320 youth ministry, in ministry with young people. 229 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:30,280 But you know, when I'm looking at the definition here, it it's 230 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:33,280 not, you know, throughout the years I've done confirmation 231 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:37,640 prep with people. I've seen sibling relationships 232 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:40,640 where you know, someone's maybe 2 years older than their sibling 233 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:43,680 receiving it, where it's that's a great sponsor relationship, 234 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:48,880 cousins, classmates, you know, maybe someone received it a 235 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:50,400 little bit sooner than the other. 236 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:56,200 And again, I don't want to diminish like adults, but the 237 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:59,240 intergenerational relationship is valuable for sure. 238 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:02,120 But I don't think that's necessary for a. 239 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:04,400 Sponsor. So a sponsor doesn't have to be. 240 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,640 Yeah, it can. It can be in in that but but 241 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:10,480 yeah. But I will say you you use the 242 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:15,240 keyword mature and not to confuse maturity with age, but 243 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:17,800 maturity is definitely it needs to be someone who is mature in 244 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:19,760 their faith. Yeah, Yep. 245 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:21,720 Absolutely. Well, and I love how you 246 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:26,480 highlighted just, I mean, Canon law highlights, but I like that 247 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:30,600 you put a spotlight on it, that it's, it's a lifelong commitment 248 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:36,960 that this isn't merely ceremonial, right, That that the 249 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:41,960 role of the sponsor is to walk with them after confirmation. 250 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:43,520 And that's just been such a common theme in all the 251 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:47,760 conversations we've been having is that that need for 252 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:51,880 accompaniment in especially in the confirmation process. 253 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:56,280 So talk to us about like what would be your tips on better 254 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:58,760 leveraging that sponsor relationship? 255 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:07,880 Yeah. I mean, I think that's a great 256 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:14,600 question because I think it's not so simple as what we can do 257 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:17,080 individually. One of the reasons why like I'm 258 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:19,120 glad you guys were talking about this is because I think we have 259 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:22,520 to be talking about this, you know, on a larger level, whether 260 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:24,800 it's nationally or, you know, even beyond that. 261 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:31,880 Because I think we have tinkered too much with confirmation prep 262 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:37,680 where we, I think we have to go back on a national level, but 263 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:40,560 also in our churches and, and try to re educate people on what 264 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:43,200 it means to be a sponsor. And so, you know, to really go 265 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:45,600 back when you're looking at baptismal prep, you know, and 266 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:47,960 talking to the parents about the vision and the path that they 267 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:50,560 have for their kids, you know, and not just with godparents, 268 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:52,520 but saying like, hey, down the line, when they receive 269 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:55,280 confirmation, you know, you want to make sure that there are men 270 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,240 and women in their lives that exemplify their faith. 271 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:03,400 And those are people that you want them to, to pick to be 272 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:04,640 their sponsor. Right. 273 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:08,240 If, if, if we're going to make confirmation prep a point where 274 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:10,760 young people are making decisions, one of those big 275 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:14,800 decisions is picking who that that person is that's going to 276 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:17,600 accompany them along this lifelong journey. 277 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:21,480 So I think, I think when we have to kind of educate people on 278 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:25,080 that from a parish standpoint, I think when you have these 279 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:29,720 initial information meetings for confirmation prep or even OCIA 280 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:32,120 or, you know, things along those lines, it's, it's talking about 281 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:35,240 that, yes, family is great because I think there's that 282 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:37,920 built in the fact that we're going to see family, you know, a 283 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:41,120 lot more family is accessible, friends are accessible and 284 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:43,400 everything like that. But it's also encourage them to 285 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:47,520 look at people in the parish. And so if they're like, well, I 286 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:49,880 don't really know anyone, then ask them the question like how 287 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:52,680 involved are you? And, and when I mean ask them, I 288 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:56,000 mean parents and, and students as well, like if they're not 289 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:58,200 involved in small groups, if they're not involved in ministry 290 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:00,520 or outreach, they're not surrounding themselves with 291 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:03,560 other mature Catholics in their Catholic faith. 292 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:07,480 And so I think if you're a DREA youth minister, confirmation 293 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:11,000 coordinator, pastor, listening to this or watching this, I 294 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:14,560 think it's essential for you to say, like, how are you creating 295 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:18,040 community so that people in our congregation are interacting 296 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:20,920 with other Catholics who are exemplifying their faith? 297 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:24,000 Because I'll tell you what, Like when a parent comes to me and 298 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:27,480 says, Chris, I'm really struggling to find a sponsor for 299 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:30,720 my son or my daughter, I'm like, well, is there someone in the 300 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:33,120 parish that you know of? And when that light bulb goes 301 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:35,720 off where they're like, oh, yeah, I serve with so and so, or 302 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:38,680 there's this other family, then it kind of opens that up. 303 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:43,280 And that was something where personally, I think, Andy, I was 304 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:45,560 sharing this with you. My, my, my oldest son just got 305 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:48,760 confirmed a couple weeks ago. And that was a huge conversation 306 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:51,640 in our family was who his sponsor was going to be. 307 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,560 And he ended up picking his middle school small group later, 308 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:58,240 Brian, And which was really exciting because here was 309 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:02,760 someone that my son felt was speaking into his life about 310 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:04,960 faith. He was someone that my wife and 311 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:06,920 I already knew and had trust with. 312 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:11,640 And, you know, yeah, it was just kind of exciting for him to pick 313 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:13,960 someone that was in the church that he's going to see a lot 314 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:16,760 more because just, you know, a little bit of context. 315 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:19,839 My wife and I are from out outside the Baltimore area. 316 00:17:19,839 --> 00:17:22,200 All of our family lives, you know, hours away. 317 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:25,319 And so for our son to have someone who's accessible and 318 00:17:25,319 --> 00:17:29,040 nearby was just was rewarding in that way. 319 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:29,880 Yeah. Yeah, that's. 320 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:32,480 Great. I mean, this, this Harkins back 321 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:36,840 to, to some of the conversation we were having around the 322 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:41,480 research that says young people need 5 faithful witnesses to 323 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:45,520 invest in them, accompany them in order to, to have faith 324 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:49,720 coming out of college. And so the, the sponsor role, 325 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:54,880 what I'm hearing from you is that it's, it's not like a, a 326 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:59,600 title, you know, in, in like, oh, this is, this is somebody 327 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:06,840 who's cool, but rather I see Christ at work in you and, and I 328 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:10,200 want to learn more of that. Yeah, yeah. 329 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:12,880 It, it, it's definitely not a title and kind of going back to 330 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,640 the original question too of what we can do. 331 00:18:16,120 --> 00:18:21,960 I think we have to stop, not stop. 332 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:24,880 But I, I think it's good to bring parents along the process 333 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:30,000 and confirmation, but really kind of put focus our investment 334 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:33,040 in the sponsors as well. Like we invest in the kids. 335 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:35,280 I think that's important. Invest in the students, invest 336 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:37,960 in the candidate, but invest in the sponsors too. 337 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:40,960 Because you know, it's kind of like, Hey, congratulations, you 338 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:43,360 got asked to be a sponsor. And 1st question sponsors will 339 00:18:43,360 --> 00:18:44,760 ask is, well, what does that mean? 340 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:47,120 What do I do? And, you know, often times we're 341 00:18:47,120 --> 00:18:50,000 just like, just hang tight and we'll tell you when rehearsal in 342 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:52,840 the mass is right. And and then it's like good luck 343 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:59,320 where I think it's kind of like, OK, how do we help them through 344 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:01,280 that? And so, you know, one of the 345 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:06,520 ways that one of the ways that my parishes have done that, so a 346 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:10,480 nativity, we had a mentoring program where can't. 347 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:14,200 And as much as I love that program, we didn't do this as 348 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:15,960 effectively with sponsors as we should have. 349 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:18,720 But one of the things that we did with the candidates is the 350 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:23,600 candidates met one on two or two on one with someone we call the 351 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:25,680 mentor. And those mentors met with the 352 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:28,400 candidates about 6 times throughout the preparation. 353 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,400 And those mimicked what a sponsor relationship looked like 354 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:34,440 because we wanted candidates to know what it meant to like meet 355 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:37,000 with someone you know individually with their faith 356 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:39,600 and and grow in that. We never did a great job of 357 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:42,680 translating that over to this is what you should do with your 358 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:45,480 sponsor. But like we at least introduce 359 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,160 them to that. When I was at Saint Joe's, what 360 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:50,680 we really started to do was cater a lot of our materials and 361 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:53,920 our content to sponsors. And so initially, like you 362 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:57,560 cannot sign up. I mean, you could, but we really 363 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:00,680 wanted you to name and have your contact information of your 364 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:03,040 sponsor before the whole process began. 365 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:05,960 And so sponsors were a part of the process right from the very 366 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:08,200 beginning, you know, before the retreat, because we want 367 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:10,400 sponsors to know this is what we're doing on the retreat, 368 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:11,600 right? Letters to your candidates on 369 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:14,840 the retreat and then. We would take breaks in our 370 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:17,200 classes or our small groups with the candidates where the 371 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:20,680 sponsors were just meant to meet with the candidates and we 372 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:23,720 provided materials. My team and I were accessible 373 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:25,880 for sponsors. You needed coaching or training 374 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:27,800 on like how to talk to them about their faith. 375 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:33,680 And we really, really emphasize that sponsors take your your 376 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:36,560 candidates out for a bite to eat or a cup of coffee or go for a 377 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:39,760 walk or just, you know, something that was natural and 378 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:41,640 casual to talk about their faith. 379 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:45,800 You know, if it was an aunt and her uncle or a grandparent that 380 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:48,040 lived, you know, across the country, we talked about what 381 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:50,080 that looked like on Zoom, but then take advantage during those 382 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:52,400 holidays when you were in person in that regards. 383 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:58,280 And so we started to cater a lot of our training towards sponsors 384 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:00,200 and candidates, how they interacted so that they would 385 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:03,600 continue those relationships beyond confirmation prep. 386 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:08,200 And but that wasn't something we could do overnight because the 387 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:11,880 concept when we first introduced it was so foreign that people 388 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,800 kind of scoffed at it or mailed it in and everything like that. 389 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:17,800 And was something overtime where we kind of had to just slowly 390 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:22,320 build that into the culture. And so probably about, you know, 391 00:21:22,360 --> 00:21:26,440 eight years of doing that at my last parish, we started to see a 392 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:29,160 little bit more of that engagement than we took in the 393 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:31,520 1st. Years for this cultural reality 394 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:35,440 to set in for you. To get to where, sorry to get to 395 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,240 where it needed to be, but like you know, there's still a lot 396 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:39,560 more. And I think that's also another 397 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,240 mistake that we make in confirmation prep is we think we 398 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:44,880 can make the change within a year or or two or three. 399 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:47,520 Yeah, Yep, yeah. And then what? 400 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:52,760 I'm just curious as this cultural norm set in, what what 401 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:56,880 stirred in the parish beyond just the young people and 402 00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,960 people, potential sponsors. Is there something else that was 403 00:21:59,960 --> 00:22:03,280 there? Yes and no. 404 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:06,080 You know, because here's the thing. 405 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:10,040 He's gonna. Say something edgy, here it 406 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:13,840 comes, I'm ready for it. The whole parish has to buy into 407 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:18,080 this kind of concept. So at my first parish there was 408 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:23,080 that buy in and you saw more of an investment in youth ministry 409 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:26,480 and next generation ministry. At my second parish saw some of 410 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:31,160 that transformation in the youth and children's ministry because 411 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:34,760 when we started to really clarify that people could be 412 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:38,680 more than just a catechist that shows up on Sunday and teaches 413 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:42,600 the faith, you saw a little bit more of buying and ownership, 414 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:46,880 unfortunately. And you know, I love it. 415 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:48,560 It's my current parish today and everything like that. 416 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:50,720 I love it and everything. There just isn't the same 417 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,800 investment in that that you see elsewhere. 418 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:57,840 So even though we were seeing a change in the way that we did 419 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:01,680 confirmation prep and we were seeing, I, I will say the one 420 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,600 fruit that we were able to see is retention of young people in 421 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:06,880 our ministry. They weren't dropping off after, 422 00:23:07,360 --> 00:23:13,360 that's a major, but like for the rest of the congregation since 423 00:23:13,360 --> 00:23:19,360 it wasn't cascaded and communicated throughout, you'd 424 00:23:19,360 --> 00:23:21,200 have to look hard to see some of those fruits. 425 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:24,280 Sure. So I'm thinking about people 426 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:27,480 listening to this like the BI vocational youth minister, the 427 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,720 person who has a day job and is running the youth ministry and 428 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:34,120 confirmation prep at their their parish or they're in a parish 429 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:36,840 where you say like there's just not the buy in. 430 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:39,680 What is something they can do? Because you're talking about, 431 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:42,080 and we're all talking about how culture change takes a really 432 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:45,920 long time, which is true. So what's something practical 433 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:52,360 they can do right now? Yeah, You know, if you and, and 434 00:23:54,840 --> 00:24:00,360 if you've got a, a small team, whether you have, you know, 20 435 00:24:00,360 --> 00:24:05,920 candidates or 200 candidates, if you have a small team, the best 436 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,280 thing you can do is train that team to train sponsors. 437 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:13,400 That's the easiest, simple, most scalable and affordable way to 438 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,800 do that Because, listen, parents are already invested in the 439 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:18,720 sponsors. Sponsors are already invested in 440 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:23,320 the family. And, you know, there's probably 441 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:28,760 less hoops to jump through with how and when they can meet. 442 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:31,960 They can arrange that to their schedule. 443 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:35,880 And so if I were to start over again in a parish where let's 444 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:40,000 just say I had four people who were on my confirmation team, I 445 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,680 would have those four people develop a caseload of X amount 446 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:47,000 of people that were sponsors or families. 447 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,520 And their job was wasn't necessarily to teach the faith 448 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:53,280 in a classroom setting, but to give sponsors the materials that 449 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:58,360 they needed to meet one-on-one or, you know, in whatever kind 450 00:24:58,360 --> 00:25:02,080 of saying with the parents and the kid, you know, to help them 451 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:03,880 grow in their faith. I think that would be. 452 00:25:04,120 --> 00:25:07,120 I would build my program around that kind of framework. 453 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:09,480 That's great. I have a potentially weird 454 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,000 question because. Is it about chicken? 455 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,280 Nope. OK, have you ever had to fire a 456 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:18,960 sponsor? Oh yeah, I mean, there have been 457 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:19,520 good. Question. 458 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,360 I mean, you know, it's it's kind of like once in a while you'll 459 00:25:23,360 --> 00:25:26,960 get, hey, we picked so and so and you're like, oh, who are 460 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:28,280 they? And they're like, oh, it's my 461 00:25:28,360 --> 00:25:32,200 aunt who is was, you know, raised in the Catholic faith, 462 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:36,520 but now is a Wiccan, or I mean. That'd be a bad sponsored. 463 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:38,600 Yeah. And that's where you're just 464 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:40,520 like, well, that's not really the point. 465 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:44,680 The point is not finding someone who you know, like and, and and 466 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:46,800 that's where you're just like, hey, it's a good person. 467 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:50,120 This is a great person, you know, but this is not what we're 468 00:25:50,120 --> 00:25:52,760 looking for in regards to a sponsor. 469 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:57,520 You know, it's really hard when people come back to you and they 470 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:04,400 want like a step parent or, you know, something along those 471 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,160 lines where you're just kind of like, yeah, they're not 472 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:09,560 technically your parents, but it's still kind of that parental 473 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:10,960 role. And you're really trying to, 474 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,520 like what I tried to do is really push people to think 475 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:18,120 beyond, you know, and granted, it's, it's written out in the 476 00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:22,880 right and what not what, who and what you should choose, but like 477 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,440 really trying to expand people to think about someone that 478 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,120 helps them grow in their Catholic faith. 479 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,800 There's been once or twice where there's a sponsor who I'm just 480 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:35,800 like, this person's just mailing it in. 481 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,920 And it's not like you fire them because you can't really fire a 482 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:44,240 sponsor, but you can, you can really challenge and encourage 483 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,640 the candidate to, to reconsider who they pick. 484 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:48,920 And, and that's the other thing too, is like, even though you 485 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,960 want them part of the whole preparation process, I told 486 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,200 candidates like you might go through this three months and be 487 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,320 like, this is not the right person for me, but so, and so is 488 00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:59,760 that's OK. Like figure it out, you know, 489 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:03,120 now. And even if that person ends up 490 00:27:03,120 --> 00:27:05,600 like walking away from the faith two weeks after you received 491 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,600 confirmation, at least you know what you're looking for now in a 492 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,840 sponsor, right? And and so again, like the 493 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:15,960 whole, the whole idea of having a sponsor is, is someone who's 494 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:20,240 going to help you walk in faith and get to know Christ and, and, 495 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,760 and just continue to grow as a disciple of Jesus Christ. 496 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,280 So, so you're, you're playing the long game, you're, you're 497 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,800 looking at this much in a, in a larger context. 498 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:35,280 And you know, for that youth minister or that parent that was 499 00:27:35,360 --> 00:27:41,240 asked to do confirmation this year, this is an opportunity to, 500 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,880 to pull in some additional mentors to, to have this ongoing 501 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:51,960 accompaniment. And in part of what the, the the 502 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:56,920 confirmation leader is, is trying to do is help these 503 00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:02,920 sponsors and and parents have conversations of faith and life 504 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:08,080 and build relationship so that long term, even after the 505 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:13,280 sacrament in that Mister Goji period, people can, can continue 506 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:16,440 growing, asking questions when they go to college, when they 507 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,120 something comes up in life and they're struggling. 508 00:28:19,120 --> 00:28:22,200 Where are you God? They have someone to turn to and 509 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:23,680 process. Yeah. 510 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:25,360 I mean, you're talking too much sense though. 511 00:28:25,360 --> 00:28:29,520 I mean, it's like, you know, if there's 10, sorry, go ahead. 512 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:31,080 No. No, no, I think it's it's I 513 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,160 think it's also fair to say this is clearly the better way, but 514 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:38,440 it's a harder way. And oh, oh, you're giving me a 515 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:39,880 face like it might not be harder. 516 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:43,800 It's, it's not, it's, it's one of those things where we think 517 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,760 it's harder. But it's like, you know, if I 518 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:52,720 were to walk in to a parish and sit down with a, a youth 519 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,440 minister or Dre who's really on the fringes and said, hey, 520 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:57,360 listen, let's just slow this down. 521 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,120 I mean, and I'm giving you permission. 522 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,440 Your pastor's giving you permission, your Bishop's giving 523 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,520 you permission to slow this down. 524 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:09,400 I think so many people would just like start crying, you 525 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,160 know, and you know, then saying where can we get some really 526 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:14,480 good chicken? Because I just need to give it a 527 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:18,200 feeling. No, but in all seriousness, it's 528 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:20,880 I think it's like one of those things where people would 529 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,280 embrace that. And so if there's one message 530 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,520 that I would just want to get out there and I feel like I need 531 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,160 to get it out there is like, let's just stop tinkering with 532 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:32,600 confirmation so that we can play the long game. 533 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,800 And it's just like, if, if anything, just stop trying to 534 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:40,800 move something around that it really doesn't help. 535 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:45,280 And in fact, I'd say the more we make these drastic changes like 536 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,680 changing the age of confirmation, changing some of 537 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:53,240 the the the guidelines and things like that, I think it 538 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:58,800 actually causes more damage and sets us back farther than than 539 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,560 anything else that we would do. Because the focus is an outcome 540 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:04,720 and not on the person. You got it. 541 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:06,560 Yeah, Yeah. OK. 542 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:11,720 Can you tell us a story, as you've embraced the slower 543 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:16,520 approach that you're just like, that is a story I hang onto that 544 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:20,560 makes me realize that this is a better way to kind of go about 545 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:26,560 doing confirmation. For me, like there was this one 546 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:31,840 student I had in my first parachute at Nativity and he, 547 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:35,560 you know, he, he was, he was somewhat involved in everything 548 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:39,920 like that, but, you know, hit college really kind of struggled 549 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,880 with some things, some some really big life issues and, and 550 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,080 everything. And I had stayed in touch with 551 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,440 him, you know, just because I had developed a good 552 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:49,560 relationship. But when he really started to 553 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:53,520 struggle, you know, one of the, when I was checking in, I was 554 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:55,480 like, who are you talking to? One of the names he mentioned 555 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:59,000 was his confirmation sponsor. And I was just like, this was 556 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,800 like 6-7 years after he had received the sacrament. 557 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:09,600 And, and so for me, like, you know, I've heard a, a couple of 558 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:14,120 those stories. And so, like, it's not I, I take 559 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:21,080 joy in the fact that anytime I meet a former student, whether 560 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,680 they're now in their 30s or their 20s or, you know, just 561 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:28,000 even a couple years after and they talk about still having a 562 00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:34,440 relationship was someone that was introduced to them in, in, 563 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,160 in youth ministry, whether it's a small group leader or a 564 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,320 sponsor or something along those lines. 565 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,840 You know, I, I, I just think that's, that's beautiful, right? 566 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:47,360 Because what that means that that's affirmation for for 567 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,560 myself and the team and what we were trying to do, you know, 568 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:53,960 that that's fruit to the fact that we were trying to create 569 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:58,240 opportunities where young people could meet other Christ 570 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:00,960 followers, where they can meet people who could walk with them 571 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:02,760 in faith. And the fact that they still 572 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:09,160 have these relationships with those people, just just it's so 573 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:14,560 rewarding in that aspect. And so, yeah, for me, I'd say 574 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:16,040 that's like one of those ultimate. 575 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,120 Ultimate wins and you can't force a relationship, but you 576 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,080 can set the environment for it, right? 577 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,040 That's what you did. You set the environment and it 578 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,240 it grew because there's a desire on both ends there. 579 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:27,120 Yeah. Exactly. 580 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:29,000 That's beautiful, man. Thanks. 581 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:33,640 So question for you, all of this experience that you have and 582 00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:37,520 again very recent experience, if you could go back and do 583 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:42,600 anything differently when it comes to confirmation, what, 584 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:48,800 what would that be? If I were to go back and change 585 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,760 anything, I think I think at my first parish I would have 586 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,360 emphasized sponsors a little bit more. 587 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,200 That was something that I, I, you know, it didn't really come 588 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,720 come to understand until, you know, my last couple years 589 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,520 there. And I think the mentorship 590 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:07,840 program that you know, is described in rebuilding 591 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:16,080 confirmation and and whatnot, I think I would have emphasize 592 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:19,360 that a little bit earlier. And that's why I think 593 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:24,960 leveraging the sponsor is so key because that's not someone that 594 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,200 I'm necessarily saying, hey, here's someone you can entrust 595 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,080 your kids with. That's something that the family 596 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:31,000 and the parent is putting it in. So if you want to put more 597 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:34,520 ownership on the, on the parents, it's asking them to 598 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,960 help their young person pick a sponsor that you can give 599 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:41,120 materials to and have them evaluate whether this is 600 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:44,440 fruitful or not in that regards. And so I think I would have, you 601 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,600 know, going back, if there were one thing that I would change or 602 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,200 emphasize more, it's that especially now having gone 603 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:55,320 through this as a parent, you know, even though it was very 604 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,400 clear who my son was going to pick and everything like that, 605 00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:01,720 I, I recognized it was kind of tough to walk through this with 606 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:03,680 Brian and, and just be like, Hey, this is what you should do 607 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:05,840 with my son. And you know, like this is, 608 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,360 these are the expectations that we have as parents. 609 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:09,719 This is the expectation that he has. 610 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,880 What are your expectations and things along those lines? 611 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:18,159 And so, yeah, I mean, I think I would have clarified that more, 612 00:34:18,159 --> 00:34:20,920 but I, I don't know. Again, I know that now. 613 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,320 I don't think I would have known that without going through some 614 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:26,719 of these successes and failures. For sure. 615 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:33,080 So can you talk to us about practically how we can 616 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:37,960 incorporate sponsors? Volunteer running confirmation? 617 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:44,880 Maybe a person that is a mom that has their own kids and is 618 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,239 like, oh I want this to work really well, but I know sponsors 619 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:48,320 important. I don't know what to do. 620 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:49,760 What do I? Do yeah, what's something 621 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:53,280 practical they can do to to pull the sponsors into the process? 622 00:34:54,159 --> 00:35:01,680 Yeah, I think it's if you're a volunteer, especially like don't 623 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:06,320 do the classes and give all that curriculum and material to the 624 00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:10,920 sponsors, not to the parents, to the sponsors and make yourself 625 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:12,880 accessible to the sponsors, right. 626 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:17,440 And so if mom or dad are struggling to help their young 627 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:21,720 person find a sponsor, you know, go around your congregation and 628 00:35:21,720 --> 00:35:24,160 find people who might be willing to be a sponsor. 629 00:35:24,240 --> 00:35:28,120 You know, that's that's an, and you know, even talk to your 630 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:32,320 pastor about it too, you know, and just say like, Hey, are 631 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:34,760 there this family is really struggling to find a sponsor. 632 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:36,880 Is there anyone in the parish that you know, that I could sit 633 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:40,600 down with and maybe sit down with this family with and help 634 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:46,120 them find a sponsor And and then, you know, and then tell 635 00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:49,400 people like, Hey, listen, let's if if we can't figure this out, 636 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:51,520 let's spend the next year to figure this out so your child 637 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,280 can get confirmed next year. You know, I think that's the 638 00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:55,920 other thing. Now I know people are hearing 639 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,280 that and saying that sounds great, Chris, you know, but 640 00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:01,080 that's just impossible because someone's going to say, my kid 641 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,160 needs to get confirmed now and everything like that. 642 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,480 But I think it's like, even if you can't communicate to that 643 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:08,280 person, you still have to have that conversation. 644 00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:11,040 And that goes back to what I was saying before with where this 645 00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:15,400 takes years to do that is guiding people, you know, 646 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,400 protecting the sacrament, yet making it accessible to people. 647 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:21,880 It just takes years and years of communicating that culture to 648 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:28,560 them and not creating like, you know, a, a, a line that divides, 649 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:32,040 but more of like, all right, if it didn't work with this person 650 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:33,320 where they're like, no, no thanks. 651 00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,920 I just want to rush through this then, you know, OK, that's one 652 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:37,880 thing. But the more you communicate 653 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:40,720 that and create that into the culture and put that, you know, 654 00:36:40,720 --> 00:36:43,800 in your literature when people are registering for confirmation 655 00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:45,920 and your information meetings and your training meetings and 656 00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,600 your confirmation retreat, whatever it might be, just make 657 00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:51,520 sure you're you're communicating this vision over and over and 658 00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:53,720 over again and you will see those changes take place. 659 00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,800 Well, I love your idea of having almost a pool of potential 660 00:36:57,800 --> 00:36:59,440 sponsors for people who are struggling. 661 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,080 Like, hey, there's this great person in the parish who wants 662 00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:03,800 to be engaged with young people somehow. 663 00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:06,600 Here's a really practical way they can do that. 664 00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:11,480 It's a great way to leverage not just sponsors, but the rest of 665 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:13,640 the parish community. I think that's a great idea. 666 00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,160 Well, and Annie, going back to that too, one of the first names 667 00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:20,000 that I always ask people too is like, well, what about their 668 00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,720 catechists from, you know, elementary school, you know, 669 00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:26,320 elementary age or, you know, even like this is one of the 670 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:28,920 reasons why I, I think it is a horrible idea. 671 00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:31,400 When people combine youth ministry with confirmation prep, 672 00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,480 they are two separate things. They should never be they, they 673 00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:37,320 should complement one another, but they should not be dependent 674 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:41,080 on one another. And that's where, again, like my 675 00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:44,400 son was able to find his middle school small group leader to be 676 00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,400 his confirmation sponsor because they were totally separate 677 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:50,640 programs. And he saw Brian not as his 678 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:54,800 teacher, but as a sponsor, someone who could walk with him 679 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:59,280 in his faith. And so I think that's a I'd 680 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,000 rather see parishes and diocese put the effort into creating 681 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,320 separate ministries between confirmation and youth ministry 682 00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,840 and children's ministry, then moving the age around in that 683 00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:12,800 regards. I want to go back to, to 684 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:16,680 something you said and frankly, a mistake I made for a long 685 00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:22,640 time, which was I collected the, the sponsors and got that 686 00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:27,040 information right before I needed to make the certificates 687 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:32,920 that, that that's a fail. And also then there's, you know, 688 00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:35,560 people forget. So you're like down to the wire 689 00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:39,000 and it's messy. But what you're saying is at the 690 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:43,600 very beginning, clarify the expectation of the sponsors. 691 00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:48,360 What what kind of person it's, it's a disciple and, and then 692 00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:53,560 what, what they're going to be involved in this process to the 693 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:59,720 sacrament and after so that that clear expectation and, and then 694 00:38:59,720 --> 00:39:05,320 finding a way within the the, the preparation to set the table 695 00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:09,360 for that, that relationship that that Jordan was talking about to 696 00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:13,320 begin to flourish, right? That that soil is tilled. 697 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:18,560 And now you're helping have the the confirmation in the in the 698 00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:24,600 teen like, like have questions to hear like about their like 699 00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:26,840 tell me about your faith journey. 700 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:28,800 What what was your confirmation? Like? 701 00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:32,000 What was your confirmation saying you're you're priming the 702 00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:36,400 pump to to help nurture those those conversations? 703 00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:42,880 Yeah, you know, and, and yeah, I appreciate you saying that 704 00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:46,640 'cause it also makes me think about the fact that, you know, 705 00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:52,920 if you can't, if they can't pick their sponsors before they sign 706 00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:57,160 up for confirmation, then make the first part of confirmation 707 00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:58,840 prep them finding a sponsor, right. 708 00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:02,000 If we're preparing these young people for confirmation, the, 709 00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:07,920 the role of sponsor is really to start taking place after 710 00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:11,000 receiving the sacrament. So, you know, why aren't we 711 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:13,160 making that a part of the preparation process of like how 712 00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:15,360 do you find, you know, and and this, this. 713 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:17,400 Is a little bit different than what I'm doing, but I'm just 714 00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,960 kind of thinking about aloud is like, you know, how why aren't 715 00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:24,680 we sitting down with kids and teen or teens and, and parents 716 00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:26,840 or candidates and parents and saying like, this is what you 717 00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,000 need to look for in a sponsor, you know? 718 00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:33,120 And so your first assignment in confirmation prep is to find 719 00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:37,800 that sponsor and then and have that conversation with that 720 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:40,240 sponsor about what he or she is meant to do. 721 00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:43,920 And and then to your point, yeah, like tell them it's 722 00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:46,320 witnessing the faith, it's reminding them of the gifts of 723 00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:48,960 the Holy Spirit. You know, it's things like that. 724 00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:52,240 I mean, if confirmation prep was really just focused on preparing 725 00:40:52,240 --> 00:40:56,200 the sponsor to, you know, walk with that candidate, I think 726 00:40:56,200 --> 00:41:00,200 that would just be that that would be just as impactful as 727 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:02,760 having the sponsor there right at the beginning. 728 00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:05,520 Well, Chris, thank you so much. This has been. 729 00:41:05,720 --> 00:41:08,160 Amazing. Yeah, great, great conversation. 730 00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:12,920 Where can people find you? So easiest place to find me is 731 00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:17,000 Marathon youthministry.com. That's our website on social 732 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:22,000 media at Marathon Youth Ministry or some variation of that, 733 00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:25,480 especially on Instagram or Facebook and, and LinkedIn. 734 00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:28,680 You can just look for me, Christopher Wesley there. 735 00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:31,600 But Marathon youthministry.com is the best place to go and you 736 00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:35,280 can sign up for newsletter and hear more of my thoughts and and 737 00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:39,280 feelings on things like confirmation as well as other 738 00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:41,840 things about church as well. All right, my man. 739 00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:43,920 So we're going to end with the last question which we've asked 740 00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:47,320 every guest so far and we are going to compare your answer for 741 00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:49,000 seven us, I'm just kidding, we're not. 742 00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:56,760 But what is your one piece of advice to every listener that's 743 00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:58,800 listening to this regarding confirmation? 744 00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:01,040 And it doesn't have to be about sponsors, it give me anything. 745 00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:07,680 My piece of advice is play the long game, you know, going back 746 00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:10,880 to what Jason was saying. So it's really Jason's advice, 747 00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:14,040 you know, but don't be frustrated if you don't reach 748 00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:16,920 the mountaintop and you're one, you're 2, you're three. 749 00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:20,800 If you're a pastor, you know, recognize that this is a long 750 00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:23,320 term investment. So help your Youth minister Dre 751 00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:29,120 by investing in a community where people can find sponsors 752 00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:31,880 or just role models or and nurture that faith beyond 753 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:34,240 confirmation. Awesome. 754 00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:36,240 Thank you so much. You've been such a gift. 755 00:42:36,240 --> 00:42:39,000 Thank you for bringing your whole self to this and thanks 756 00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:42,800 for your passion for young people, for especially middle 757 00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:47,120 schoolers and and just for rallying the church together to 758 00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:49,160 love young people really well. Appreciate you man. 759 00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:52,480 Hey, not a problem. Thank you all and keep having 760 00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:55,320 these conversations. I love that, you know, I love 761 00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:58,160 that you guys are talking about this subject and other things. 762 00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:00,360 There's not enough resources for youth ministers out there. 763 00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:03,040 And so like I, I just love that you're all partnering together 764 00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:04,240 to do this. So keep it up. 765 00:43:04,720 --> 00:43:05,480 Yeah. Thanks. 766 00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:10,320 Thanks, Chris. That was, that was a great 767 00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:12,880 conversation. I just, I, I really respect 768 00:43:13,240 --> 00:43:16,280 Chris's perspective. You know, one of the things he 769 00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:19,520 was saying about like give yourself, give yourself a chance 770 00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:21,920 to slow down. It's actually one of the things 771 00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:26,480 that I that he specifically inspired me to do in 772 00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:28,440 confirmation when I read that book, he's like, if you're 773 00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:32,400 spending all of your time tracking like requirements down 774 00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:36,960 that they're not doing, is that really the best stewardship? 775 00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:39,640 And I'm almost certain that's the word he uses stewardship. 776 00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:43,200 And I, I took that book. I literally walked in with that 777 00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:47,440 book into my DRE's office and I said can we stop? 778 00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:53,120 What's the book called again? Rebuilding confirmation get it 779 00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:58,720 on Amazon and my my Dre looked at me and said yes, because it 780 00:43:58,720 --> 00:44:02,040 was my time and it was our administrative assistants time 781 00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:04,440 spent hours of tracking this stuff down. 782 00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:07,760 So just love that, that permission to just slow down and 783 00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:11,800 and and stop for a minute. And this has been a common theme 784 00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:17,600 for us as we've talked to different people and probably 785 00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:20,640 people you will hear about, but then also people that we've 786 00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:22,720 talked to individually about confirmations, like what are you 787 00:44:22,720 --> 00:44:24,000 doing? It's like we had to slow down. 788 00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:28,320 Yeah, reexamine it. Yeah, we've made it this machine 789 00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:32,080 and it's like it's not bearing the fruit that we. 790 00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:34,320 Have well, I think one thing too that we should probably say out 791 00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:36,800 loud when we've, I think we've said this before, but we make 792 00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:38,880 sure we say, especially when this topic comes up about 793 00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:42,840 slowing down is you have to give permission to yourself to slow 794 00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:45,320 down. The outcome isn't the measure of 795 00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:49,000 your value in ministry. And so there are a lot of things 796 00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:52,720 that only Jesus can control. And so when we take the posture 797 00:44:52,720 --> 00:44:55,760 of handing over control, sometimes it looks like slowing 798 00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:57,360 down. And that's good. 799 00:44:57,560 --> 00:44:59,800 It's good for our own souls, but it's also going to be really 800 00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:02,400 good for the people that are in the ministry that we're holding, 801 00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:07,360 yeah. So and if you have a savior 802 00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:11,160 complex like I did where you're controlling all. 803 00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:13,760 Of you to me at this. Point where, where, where, 804 00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:16,720 where? Frankly, like I, I was very 805 00:45:16,720 --> 00:45:19,800 happy to be the person up front doing all the work, doing all 806 00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:23,680 the teaching, doing all the because I'm going to save these 807 00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:25,520 young people. And it wasn't bad. 808 00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:28,400 It wasn't a fashion thing. It wasn't like it wasn't like 809 00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:30,520 mischievous or but it just yeah, it. 810 00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:33,920 Was misplaced like I and I can say that I'm not saying that to 811 00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:36,520 you, I'm saying that to my younger youth totally self, 812 00:45:36,720 --> 00:45:38,080 yeah. I would say it's every youth 813 00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:39,880 minister. But now, Now, now what we're 814 00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:44,440 hearing is, oh, actually, we want to help other people, 815 00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:48,200 invest in young people, be witnesses. 816 00:45:48,720 --> 00:45:53,400 And so if you're, if you're got another job and you're doing 817 00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:59,200 this confirmation preparation, delegate, empower, pull in, 818 00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:03,440 remind parents, remind sponsors that, oh, if you're looking for 819 00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:07,240 me to do all of this, you're at the wrong place. 820 00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:12,480 My job is to help you have these conversations that that happen 821 00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:15,040 now and later. And I think one of the important 822 00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:20,160 things he was was getting at is, is just that when it comes to 823 00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:24,640 sponsors, it's an opportunity for ministry leaders to multiply 824 00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:29,280 themselves, right? Because one youth minister by 825 00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:34,840 vocational minister, Dre Pastor cannot accompany 150 826 00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:38,560 confirmation students. So how do we bring more adults 827 00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:44,360 in and empower them to be Co youth ministers and, and 828 00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:46,760 sponsors are a perfect place to do that. 829 00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:48,360 And it doesn't have to be complicated. 830 00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:52,000 It doesn't have to be onerous on their time. 831 00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:56,360 It just has to be intentional. All right, so we would just went 832 00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:59,520 through this whole thing together and I want you guys to 833 00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:02,200 go back to your younger selves of when you were running 834 00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:05,480 confirmation and think of the times when you were freaking 835 00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:07,080 out. Like I have to do confirmation 836 00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:08,800 now. And Jason, you're like, what? 837 00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:11,960 Really like confirmation? You hear this podcast. 838 00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:15,040 What would you do? What would you tell your younger 839 00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:19,840 self to do in that moment? Yeah, I think, I think getting 840 00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:26,160 very clear expectations for the parents and the sponsors that 841 00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:33,400 that's upfront and then having a conversation. 842 00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:36,120 So that's on like the website that's on, you know, whatever 843 00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:41,480 the registration is and then having a conversation with them 844 00:47:41,720 --> 00:47:45,320 around this. You know, so it's like in some 845 00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:47,760 of this, it doesn't have to be complicated, right, Because 846 00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:51,160 people are busy. We're not asking the sponsor to, 847 00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:54,400 to, but you know what, the sponsor should be going to mass. 848 00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:57,600 And so, hey, why don't you go to mass with this person? 849 00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:01,280 You're a company, you know, oh, you're going to have a meal. 850 00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:05,120 Well, invite that student over to share a meal. 851 00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:08,160 Everybody's got to eat. So we don't have to like 852 00:48:08,720 --> 00:48:10,680 overthink it. We just want to nurture this 853 00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:15,920 relationship and and simple things you can do whatever the 854 00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:20,400 the the discussion questions that are happening, have those 855 00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:22,720 conversations continue with the sponsor. 856 00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:25,720 So what I hear you saying is increase intentionality ahead of 857 00:48:25,720 --> 00:48:31,240 the confirmation prep and then almost create like a list, not a 858 00:48:31,240 --> 00:48:36,480 list, but expectations on how to get the most out of being a 859 00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:38,160 sponsor. Being a sponsor is amazing. 860 00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:40,840 Here's how you can get the most out of it in the relationship 861 00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:42,800 with when you're sponsoring. Yeah, OK. 862 00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:46,960 And pray for that student, like like that's probably the number 863 00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:50,520 one thing, right? Like how are we lifting them up 864 00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:55,040 through this journey? Yeah, OK, so that's what Jason 865 00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:56,240 would do. Annie, what about you? 866 00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:59,960 And this is 24 year old Annie. This is 24 year old Annie in an. 867 00:48:59,960 --> 00:49:02,080 Youth ministry, all of a sudden I have to do confirmation. 868 00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:06,680 Mostly her wardrobe choices, but I'd like to start. 869 00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:08,240 There can we get a picture or two of that that? 870 00:49:08,240 --> 00:49:09,280 'D be fun. Gosh. 871 00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:12,040 That's never crossed my mind. Yeah, wardrobe choices. 872 00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:13,200 Yeah, we don't think about that. No, I. 873 00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:18,000 Think one of the things that I would do in listening to this is 874 00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:25,240 help be be a bridge for young people and families in finding 875 00:49:25,240 --> 00:49:29,720 sponsors so frequently. I would get that like I I don't 876 00:49:29,720 --> 00:49:31,040 have a lot of Catholic family members. 877 00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:34,000 We just moved here. We just moved here and I don't 878 00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:35,360 have a lot of Catholic family members. 879 00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:38,760 Like instead of just being like deal or ask your small group 880 00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:43,880 leader, like look bigger, look at the community and say, Hey, 881 00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:48,160 can I connect you with somebody and, and be that bridge and be 882 00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:51,800 that multiplier rather than putting it all on myself. 883 00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:54,080 And then when things didn't go well, putting it all on them. 884 00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:59,680 Yeah, that's good. So you can you how would you 885 00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:02,720 practically do that? Cuz you can have the desire for 886 00:50:02,720 --> 00:50:05,120 it. How would you practically become 887 00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:06,920 that bridge? What would you need to shift and 888 00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:09,680 adjust to do that? Started those conversations 889 00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:14,960 earlier, just like what Jason was saying on the front end and 890 00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:19,040 Chris made a good point of making it at least the first 891 00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:21,600 part of confirmation prep. Like let's be talking about what 892 00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:25,160 you should be looking for. Talk about it every chance you 893 00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:27,080 can with the students, talk about it every chance you can 894 00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:28,680 with the parents. These are the kind of qualities 895 00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:30,560 you're looking for. If you don't have somebody like 896 00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:35,800 this in your life, I would love to introduce you to Jerry, who's 897 00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:39,120 in our community and and would love to be a sponsor. 898 00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:42,960 So clear communication, earlier communication. 899 00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:46,600 Is the role of a sponsor largely, and this is a question, 900 00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:51,200 is it largely like one of the hidden secrets of confirmation 901 00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:56,520 or the things that if we got this right, fruit would be wild? 902 00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:02,920 Or is this a we got some we got some adjustments guys, but 903 00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:05,200 there's other bigger things that we have to get to. 904 00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:06,800 I know it's a big thing, but I'm saying like I. 905 00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:10,280 I think it's it's got huge potential. 906 00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:14,680 I think we have not. I have not used sponsors well. 907 00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:20,840 And I think there's also an opportunity for the sponsor to 908 00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:21,800 grow in faith. Yeah. 909 00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:29,840 Yeah, 'cause it is reciprocal. Like any mentor person, they 910 00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:31,840 always will tell their mentor is that the right word? 911 00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:34,600 Mentor that I get I. Could do it righter. 912 00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:38,400 Oh yeah, thanks. That they get more out of it 913 00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:41,240 than than than the person I'm mentoring. 914 00:51:41,240 --> 00:51:45,480 That I've all every great relationship I've seen, 915 00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:47,400 including my own. That's the been the 916 00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:51,280 conversation. So, OK, so Jason, you're saying 917 00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:52,640 like, yeah, there's a ton here that we could do. 918 00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:55,520 All right, my friend. So this has been a great 919 00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:58,400 conversation. Sponsorship, not Chick-fil-A. 920 00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:01,960 It's he people. It's all about people. 921 00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:06,240 And as you're picking up these conversations, leaning in, be 922 00:52:06,240 --> 00:52:08,360 gentle to yourself. Go slow. 923 00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:11,240 You're going to hear that theme a lot and pay attention to what 924 00:52:11,240 --> 00:52:13,200 the Holy Spirit's doing, the things He's doing in your heart, 925 00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:15,240 and definitely pay attention to the young people around you. 926 00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:17,560 And let's chat soon.